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778 Responses to “World Cup (ICC) [Zimbabwe score massive win over Kenya; India beat WI handily; Quarterfinals set -- India/Aus, NZ/SA, Pak/WI, SL/Eng]”
I don’t follow these things as closely as I once used to so it’s hard for me to tell but I suspect that the IPL is where the real action is these days. Obviously things will heat up very quickly once the matches begin. But yeah it might not have the special status it once had because there’s just too much else going on. The new Outlook is all about the VC including a piece by Mukul Kesavan which is not surprisingly the most interesting of the pieces and gets to the issue you raise as well. He also talks about how there is that sense of Sachin being owed one along with everything else. Obviously everyone wants India to win but Sachin’s an important part of the conversation. I wish him to have this among his accomplishments as well but in team sports no player no matter how big can bring it about. So we’ll just have to watch him and of course the team.
if there is a way to create a SB with some censorship I’ll do so but I don’t think that’s possible. I can create one restricted to only the members here but that defeats the purpose.
This Saturday, get ready to put your life in limbo. The “grudge” match between India and Bangladesh should be a whole lot of fun. Bangladesh is a much better team now. Shakib Ul Hasan, Bangladesh’s captain, currently tops the ICC ODI all rounders list. The diminutive opener, Tamim Iqbal, has had a breakout year only recently. Shehriar Nafees is an exciting prospect to watch, and last but not the least, the match is scheduled to be held in Bangladesh. With plenty of crowd support and help from local conditions (Bangladeshi pitches have traditionally been slow turners), it’s not going to be a cakewalk for India.
I’ll try to chip in with my “live” on-the-fly comments once the match gets underway. Expect Rooney, Qalandar, Satyam and others to be here as well!
Since my request for a chat box didn’t materialize, I’m going to be a little more demanding this time. It’s probably safe to assume that not many females will be following this particular thread, so I request the use of words like “ch….a” and “g…u” to be allowed for the full duration of the WC!
oh dude! sorry… dont know how much i would comment, during world cup, but expect me too join after MARCH 6TH… as i have to study only 20 subjects for my Bar Exam….
just when i thought i wont have exms during world cup.. man proposes god diposes!
Contra Satyam’s opinion on the recent priviliging of Delhi, I’d like to see more of Delhi in Hindi cinema. Sure, the streets are never too safe, the inhabitants are mostly abrasive and aggressive, but having spent a considerable amount of time in Delhi (the weather sucks BTW, though not so much as Mumbai!), I’ve kind of fallen in love with its culture. The explosive mix of Punjabi, UP and Jatt ethnicities is quite unique to the city.
I’m not into Delhi because it’s a “happening” city, but more because I always felt quite alive spending time in Lajpat Nagar, CP, Palika Bazaar, Nehru Place etc — the middle class outing joints. And the food in Delhi is just heavenly!
I don’t have anything against Delhi (though the city’s cultural mix is not necessarily most to my taste) but yes I resent so much Delhi in films because the proper site of Hindi film mythologization has always been Bombay. This would be merely regrettable if it were only about a switch of places but as with all other such things there is usually a political choice attached. Bombay is returning very gradually in some ways but it just vanished in the 90s except in RGV’s films. And Delhi has become the ideal (or perhaps the only) Indian city for the sort of cinematic tourism otherwise known as Bollywood! On the one hand you get the monuments and the glamor associated with them but on the other you also get the re-imagining of the ‘rooted’ and this in turn happens in very selective fashion. So the old city becomes the authentic ‘heart’ of the nation state but presented in most of these films as cultural exotica. The vibrancy that is then derived from such sites comes across as ‘charming’ and ‘fun’ and so on and even the darker side of this experience is presented in very sanitized terms (OLLO for example). If this is the extent of that ‘other side of India’ we can all happily live with it. So on one side India Gate, on the other these delightful types who seem to be having a ball in their downmarket surrounding! Delhi is put ‘on view’ in these films one way or the other. These days some of this happens with Bombay too. The city has been absent for so long that today the temptation for anyone who shoots here is to have the ‘hey I’m shooting in Bombay!’ stance. But this was not the way the city enjoyed its best representations in past decades. Put another way Delhi becomes a kind of ‘consumption’ city for Bollywood’s reconfiguration of Indian space. Of course I’ll take this any day of the week over Switzerland or NY or whatever! But think of a film like Yuva where Calcutta becomes very ‘normal’ in Rathnam’s hands even though he’s a true outsider here. If there were that sort of switch to Delhi I would still miss Bombay but I wouldn’t have a ‘political’ objection to it. In general I think the sign of the ‘Punjabi’ allows Bollywood (and this has been true since the 90s) to indulge in ethnic ‘essentialisation’ without having to deal with the political charge of such a move. In other words, the Punjabis are great, they just want to sing and dance and have a great time. They’re the ‘lively’ natives not interested in the sort of politics that is elsewhere connected with the UP/Bihar badlands and so forth. The ‘Sardar’ has especially been transformed into a cool figure which is quite a remarkable turnaround in brand-name given the problems of the 80s and somewhat beyond! The political charge is therefore ‘effaced’. The only ethnicity vigorously allowed to be so or even encouraged to be so in Bollywood is that of the Punjabi. But it comes at a cost.
“I think the sign of the ‘Punjabi’ allows Bollywood (and this has been true since the 90s) to indulge in ethnic ‘essentialisation’ without having to deal with the political charge of such a move. In other words, the Punjabis are great, they just want to sing and dance and have a great time. They’re the ‘lively’ natives not interested in the sort of politics that is elsewhere connected with the UP/Bihar badlands and so forth. The ‘Sardar’ has especially been transformed into a cool figure which is quite a remarkable turnaround in brand-name given the problems of the 80s and somewhat beyond!”
Now this is a valid criticism. The depiction of uber-cool Punjabis enjoying their festivals has certainly worn out its welcome. But at the same time, films like Delhi 6, OLLO, Khosla Ka Ghosla, LSD & Monsoon Wedding illustrate a different part of the equation. They offer a more realistic, authentic and most importantly, inclusive glimpse into the city. Bombay has long been the centre of film culture in India, even if the contemporary directors are happy to look elsewhere for inspiration. Delhi, with its unique history and ethos never quite got the attention it deserved. The National School of Drama, for instance, has been instrumental in producing great talent for Bollywood. And I think it was only a matter of time before one of those guys decided to pay his debt back. If the present environment is receptive in that sense, I don’t see myself complaining!
Satyam: I don’t disagree with anything here, in fact there is much I enthusiastically agree with. But there is also a two-way street here: i.e., to the extent that B’wood has ALSO long been the site of relative “inclusion”, i.e. one of the least communal spaces in India (even where it is problematic it has been more inclusive than other spaces), one might say that the city itself has also failed Bollywood in recent decades, hasn’t it? The industry has changed – but perhaps so has the city. The rise of Marathi-centric politics certainly has its positive side (given the historic exclusion of the city’s large Marathi-speaking population from many of its benefits; although the Senas conveniently forget that many of these are themselves “outsiders”, migrants to the city or their descendants, with ties to the city of much more recent vintage than those of many of the communities now derided as outsiders by some), but in some way it has perhaps changed the space the city occupies in the national imagination. Growing up in Dubai it seemed to me only Mumbai among all Indian cities could speak to my aspirations (of course this was because of the films; I had no personal acquaintance with the city at all). For younger Indians growing up across the country, it is less true because, to an extent, the city seems less welcoming to them. Perhaps. I’m not 100% certain of this, but I offer it as one possibility…
fair points these… and perhaps I have been guilty of not looking at it from the other side.. it’s quite right to suggest that if ‘Bollywood’ is not worthy of this great city’s history well neither is ‘Mumbai’!
Saket—good note baove about delhi.
JUst to add briefly —Loved the recent dibakar banerjee films portrayal of current delhi trends, representations and lingo—-all 3 of his films–khosla, OLLO, LSD hit the right spot—have not seen a better delhi representaiton albeit there is a bit of repetition now and certain ubran milieu of upperclass delhi wallas has been missing till now..
Another self confessed delhi walla—ro mehra whom i otheerwise love, missed the boat in bringing to life –old delhi in D6
Although i have much less personal experience of the walled old delhi, thought his take was a bit fake and test-tube -like..WHat do u feel.
Yeah, Dibakar Banerjee’s films “expose” Delhi, and I don’t necessarily mean it in a good way. With each successive film, his portrayal of Delhi has assumed a darker shade. LSD could well be summarized as a trip into the city’s ‘heart of darkness’. But yes, he could be described as an authentic filmmaker. It’ll be interesting to see where he goes from here. Is he committed to becoming more Lynchian in his sensibilities, with Delhi as a fixed backdrop? Or is he willing to change lanes and explore new horizons? I hope it’s the latter, especially after a nightmarish LSD.
I can’t really comment on Delhi6 vis-a-vis its authenticity, because like you, I haven’t seen much of old Delhi. Perhaps you think it’s not authentic enough, because the sets were recreated elsewhere?
Among other things—-Coming back to the basics—WHo are the likely teams i the semi final and finals and who will win the cup?
Will be interesting to let everyone commit their choices, before the start of play—saket, whats your take—simple and straight?
Not that it’s absolutely certain, but I’d assume at this point that South Africa, Australia, Sri Lanka and India should be in the final four. Pakistan continues to be the proverbial dark horse in the race.
Obviously, would want india to win the cup>
BUt dont think India performs v well when the expectations are so high.
Both in 1983 and in the t20 world cup, they started with minimal epxectations.
Its always difficult to pen down one result and hence the question to force one to..
I feel both india, South africa and sri lanka are are currently the best teams—-while all three will be in the final four, the first two wont be in the finals!
Australia, england or pakistan will face srilanka in the final and Sri Lanka will lift the cup….
OOOh—so difficult to commit to one stance====lets hope im woring for indias sake___but thats what i foresee>
Lets see what others think….
I don’t think Sri Lanka is a very good team. But they will play their matches in Sri Lanka. Of all countries that play cricket, SL has the most lopsided home-away record, and the reason for that is simple: their pitches are heavily designed to suit their bowlers.
In this series, “Home-away” records is probaly not of much importance esp for india and lanka.
Importantly, some lankan venues are much more suited to SL themselves than even other asian teams. However the indian ones will suit all of the asian teams—if there is that difference now after IPL.
Sri Lanka may not be gr8 man-to-man but as a unit, they are more disciplined, consistent and sans showmanship.
Sri lankas band south african bowling is better than indias.
somtiems the indian bowlers have their day, but one cannot hide under the carpet the fact that other than zaheer and bhajji(who rarely turns the ball)—there are no propler bowlers.
The indian team suffers from the “superstar” malaise—there is hardly a member of the team who does not aspire to be a superstar —if not already is..
When the captain of a team is toying with the idea of flying F16 on the eve of a worldcup, being the onyl speacialist keeper of the team–there is somehign to be said.
The team who should be having the max hunger and have the most to prove/gain seem pakistan and can never be discounted.
Anyhow, saket and others —who will win be in the final and who will win it—plain and simple!
I’m not going to answer your last question! I’m a bit superstitious in that respect. But here’s a clue: towards the latter half of the tournament, as the pitches become older, spinners are going to play a huge role. When I say huge, I mean to say, match-defining roles.
Anyways, I have high hopes from R Ashwin. He should start in all games for India. I hope better sense prevails and Yuvraaj is dropped in favor of Raina.
delhi at best today is city of migrants( which is the case of now with the emergence of NCR)
in recent times band baaja baarat to captured the essence of north delhi pretty well but its become tad boring to repeatedly see delhi all around in bollywood …. one need variety to represent true india
most of the hindi belt( bunty and bubli, dabang , rajneeti showed that)
marathi touch ( ala vaastav)
a bengali feel( devdas, yuva showed that )
southern flavour and gujrati masala ( with various of priyan , mani or vipulshah movie) have repeatedly showed if you bring variety it will do wonders but there is hardly any consistency
talkin about mumbai i still loved how local train as backdrop of romance was beautifully portrayed in saathiya ( though maddy and the southern version was far superior to hindi version)
If one has to pick the best team right now, i will say south africa.
But they are chokers in the final stages and there is no doubt about it—dont think they will change.
The way australia lost the warm up against india last week shows the problem they are in–the teams past credentials are not matching their current capabilities.
Wont even put england out of the mix actually.
But again if one has to choose one, Sri Lanka will be the one followed by the sentimental favoirties (and among the top 3 right now anyhow)—india…
The Yuvraaj vs raina is a difficult one—WIll keep both in the running and decide prior to the match to keep them on their toes (esp the former)
While raina is in better form (and state of mind). one cannot keep mercurial people like yuvraaj out either. Obviously, yusuf pathan is in for a few series for me—just on the basis of that one match against SA that india lost ultimately
My patience with sehwag (after SA) is getting lower though..
they are doing badly in test but in odi’s they have just thrashed the england and even still they have a pretty good team and i would rather say best pace attack
south africa has got a balanced team
the biggest worry for india is their bowling
srilanka even in batting is to heavily dependent on dilshan , sanga and mahela and even their attack is weaker than india
pakistan may cause an upset or two but they just don’t have inspirational leader like wasim or imran
My final 4 would be India, Australia, Sri Lanka and England. Pakistan are the dark horses. SA will choke (as usual). But these 6 teams are the only ones who on paper can win it I guess. WI and NZ don’t have the players to mount a serious challenge.
India have a tough group. I’d find facing SA, England, WI and Bangladesh tougher than say what the other group favs Australia have ahead of them in Pakistan, SL and NZ.
But the format this time favours the big teams I feel. More games in the first round really gives a team a chance to bounceback. So I would not expect a major casualty in the first round. And I like the fact there are Q/F, S/F and a Final. Its like a good cup format. In fact it would be more exciting if they drew the Q/F’s out of a hat. Seed the top two teams in each group. The idea you could “know” your opponents come the last match in group is sometimes “compromising”.
jayshah–hahaha –u seem to have said everything about this world cup, but skillfully evaded the question— what what was being discussed—who will be the one winner in your opinion.
KNow this is hypothetical but will be interesting in hindsight to dig up— who said what at the start…#
and saket—is that photo in your gravatar actually you?
My heart says India and my brain says Australia. Australia just know how to win. And they never give up. India on paper are the best side taking into consideration home conditions.
Remarkable innings in that he got to 100 in 94 and then just pounded the bowling after that. Far more controlled and of course he has said he wants to bat close to 50 overs and if he continues like this India will be even more formidable. 200 was within sight but I think he’ll need to get to 100 slightly quicker to challenge it.
doubt that price can be beaten. Does it include the final as well? I only ask because they sometimes have packages where the semi-finals and the final are provided at an extra charge.
Not all cricket if you are one of the Dish network subscribers and select one of the sports packages that includes cricket. But you still have to pay for the WC. If you are a regular cable subscriber you don’t get any cricket and have to pay for everything and not everything is available. It’s a missing civilizational impulse in America when it comes to cricket!
Incidentally, and for anyone who’s interested, this was a fine novel on post-9/11 America that also had a quirky game (cricket in America!) as an important part of the story:
Saw the match till sehwags 50: missed his late blitz– hope he has not injured himself for this less crucial match– good to get averages and stroke rAte etc…
Incidetally if I’m not mistaken, bang Desh have won 7 plot of their last 10 one days– better than any other team.
Just caught bang innings— irrespective of indias impels ding win today, what should not be missed is the lack of penetration and menacing
bowling. Not one bowlers fits that bill.
The way bang are dealing with the indian bowling confirms what I have always said . Indias bowling attack is not even in the top4 of the world in sum total. Even on scoring 370 against bang , u never really know if they will restrict bang—- pathetic
Bangladesh 170/2 in 39 overs. Obviously india will win most likely. But what’s revealing is not the result. Sreesanth — th opening pacer is getting and repaid and none of the other bowlers have penetration!
this one problem have in the past bad probably in this cup, will hold india back.
Yeah, I agree the bowling is a worry. At the same time, this worry is also temporary. After half the WC is over, the pitches will open up and spin will play a huge role in deciding the outcome of the match. Even part timers like Yuvraj & Yusuf will not only “contain,” but will also pick up wickets.
The bowlers count a lot more in a semi-final or final situation.. even if one can get by otherwise.. I think it was Imran Khan who once said that attacking batsmen find it harder to prosper in WC finals because bowlers usually bowl according to a plan far more in these big games.
will keep putting it on or near the top. Don’t want to do a sticky because I’ve heard of some wordpress glitches where when you decide to ‘unstick’ it it doesn’t work.
australia played bad today.it was just zim and they were over-cautious in first 15 overs with just 28 runs in first 10 overs.in 50 overs,they cud only manage 263 runs! Pathetic! luckily,zim batting is very poor so Aus will win this one.someone like bangla wud hv won this match chasing against aus.
The day Indian bowlers allowed bangladesh to socre nearly 300, batting second chasing 370 odd (out of which sehwag alone scored 175)—
I have reluctantly taken india out of one of the favorites to win the cup. U can reach quarters or evens semis but difficult to go beyond that with this sort of bowling.
Agree with what punter ponting said about this!
Indias only hope is that it has some mercurial matchwinner batsmen who can win a key match, even single handedly—pathan has been added to sehwag & yuvraaj .
But still feel it may be beyond these guys with the home pressure with one of the weakest bowling attacks—when bhajji is someones best bowler…..
Srilanka defeated on their home ground the first time in wc history, this pakistan side is extremely dangerous and the only weak link is the fielding. Afridi is undoubtedly the best odi spinner and perhaps the best odi bowler in odis from the last three years, amazing figures in the last three years with an average of 21.8. The new mild shoaib akhtar and the crafty middle order of younis and misbah has made pakistan one of the favorites.
the key now is for the players to not be overly confident. they haven’t done squat yet. they need to be focused against the likes of canada, zimbawe and new zealand. I think we still don’t have enough to beat Aussie, India or South Africa. but if somehow we reach the semi finals..that would be a great accomplishment for this young team. fielding is extremely poor and has been the downfall for us for many years. it was a great win against Sri Lanka but yet i still thought we made it hard on ourselves more than it should’ve been.
Agree.
In semifinal or finals, the situation becums different.
Thats where australia comes into own and leaves behind the likes of india, sa, SL, Pak,,,,
Each and every player is superbly analysed. Plans are made by every team but with the confidence and ruthlessness of aussies, the percentage of plan implementaion is maximum.
Indian bowling is too weak to withstand those sort of pressures in s/f or finals
Pakistan has officially been the most unpredictable team in world cricket.
ON their day, any team can be beaten–lots of natural talent.
Still cannot get over the fact that none of their players can be consistently “clean”. For eg Salman butt was given a blank cheque and made the captain—-shocking that one can fix games at such a juncture…
if we still had salman butt, Amir and Asif i would’ve picked us to be a favorite in this world cup. those players should be ashamed of what they did to themselves and most importantly to what they did to their country. Mohammad Amir frustrates me because he is young and still is acting like he didnt do anything wrong.
Agree about Mohd amir—Recently saw him in the UK news being taken to court —He looked totally unaffected, infact cheerful and sporting latest high-maintenance hairstyles.
The problem with pakistani management is that they should have been strict with these offences long time back—-there was a tendency of hiding things under the carpet (or sharing the booty)
Still do not know how bob woolmer died!
“Shady” is the word when it comes to this team….(although they are undoubtedly v talented)
shady…corrupted…mismanaged…and selfish…just some of the words that come to my mind when i think about the PCB. They have destroyed Pakistani Cricket. The government shares the blame also. It is frustrating as a Pakistani cricket fan. Our bowling would be dynamic if they had proper people working at the PCB(Imran Khan comes to mind).
If either Sehwag or Sachin can keep producing like this India should be fine throughout the tournament. Except of course against an Australia which can still get to a 300 plus total. Some other teams can as well but not as consistently as Aus.
Yea I feel India could have easily got 350 here if one of the middle/lower order batsmen fired. Still India will win 99 times out of 100 if they hit 340 odd plus in every match! And England are a good bowling unit so this was a good score.
Its been a terrible performance in this innings. Must say Bell should be out with that LBW decision. Also India have had two balls that seemed to have taken a nick but they have not appealed. But overall England seem to be doing this so easily.
Tendulkar gets record 5th Cup hundred
Last updated on: February 27, 2011 17:52 IST
Sachin Tendulkar reached another milestone on Sunday. He became the highest century-maker in World Cup history after scoring his fifth hundred in the prestigious event.
The 37-year-old reached the landmark during the Group B clash against England [ Images ] when he glanced burly paceman Tim Bresnan [ Images ] for a boundary towards the fine leg region off the first delivery of the 35th over.
Sachin Tendulkar celebrates after getting to 100It was his 47th ODI century and 98th overall.
Former India [ Images ] captain Sourav Ganguly [ Images ], current Australia [ Images ] captain Ricky Ponting [ Images ] and his former teammate Mark Waugh [ Images ] have all scored four World Cup hundreds.
With Ganguly and Waugh retired, it is only Ponting who has a chance to match or surpass Tendulkar.
Tendulkar scored 120 runs from 115 balls and the knock was adorned with five sixes and 10 fours.
Playing his sixth World Cup, he also holds the records for most runs and most half-centuries in the flagship event of the ICC [ Images ].
He has accumulated 1944 runs in 38 matches and scored 13 fifties so far. Ponting follows with 1577 runs in 41 matches.
Ganguly is the only other Indian who has scored more than one thousand runs in World Cup matches.
He scored 1006 runs in 21 matches and stands 11th in the list of highest run scorers in the World Cup.
During the course of his innings, Tendukar shared a magnificent 134-run partnership with for the second wicket with Gautam Gambhir [ Images ], who scored 51 runs.
Indias bowling lineup is a joke and its laughable if anyone here blames that lbw shout for indias loss. The bowling lineup is awful and someone said here that englands bowling is good which is again false, aus, sa and pak have a much superior bowling lineup and they can easily restrict india to 300.
Things not looking too good for india, looks like sachins dream will remain a dream
heck, even if india scored 360 england wouldve chased it easily, england doesnt even require the powerplay for hitting, they’re just taking it cause they would have to eventually
not really, three wickets have fallen very quickly. I think India should pull this off. India’s bowling is definitely a vulnerability but they’re still the second highest ranked one day team currently behind Aus. and they’ve done very well in this format over the last couple of years or so.
It’s 291/6 at the moment in 43.3. Looks safe. would be surprised if Eng had serious production at the tail end.
India have found ways to win in the last couple of years which is what counts in these tournaments. either you have an overwhelmingly strong team like Aus or WI (in early tournaments) or those that can really surprise (India or Pak or SL in their wins). The teams that are just good without the hustle don’t usually win. Hence SA!
They should have won it twice. They had 338 on the board – they should have won it. And when England needed 29 off 12 they should have won it. England should have won it when Bell was at the crease. England were favs at that point by a canter.
People will find plenty to blame. The short run, fielding lapses, Idnia’s middle order etc. But , in the end it cones down to the ability or the lack there of to defend a total of 338. And, that has to be India’s concern.
It is like the Knicks who are giving up 106 points a game. There is no defense. Even Cavs were able to beat them. Same with India. They can have mammoth totals but if the bowling is non-existent, it is pointless.
Very true. They need to address this. Either go with the extra bowler or go with 3 seamers. 2 seamers was too shy here and really take out Harbhajan and Khan and every bowler whether he is part time, full time, spinner, seamer is going for runs.
Dhoni was right in his post match comments. India can’t bank on scoring 338 or more every match.
india’s terrible bowling performance was somewhat expected.. But its India’s lower middle order that failed badly.. the last few wickets were a joke.. the tailenders just threw away the wickets thinking they have a winning total at their hand.. the last couple of runouts were laugh-worthy..
its doing foolish things like these that cost India the match..
Just pasting my old comments on indias bowling and feel nothing much is more to add after today–
“alex adams Says:
February 23, 2011 at 4:00 PM
The day Indian bowlers allowed bangladesh to socre nearly 300, batting second chasing 370 odd (out of which sehwag alone scored 175)—
I have reluctantly taken india out of one of the favorites to win the cup. U can reach quarters or evens semis but difficult to go beyond that with this sort of bowling.”
I don’t think it is as doom and gloom as that. India have won plenty of onedayers against the best sides and especially at home. They just have to play better and get things right. They are more than capable of winning the WC, a better bowling unit and they would be clear favs. The good thing about this WC is there is no standout side. Every team has a weakness. Some outfits are well rounded like SA and SL where all there 3 skills are quite good but they don’t have a better batting side than India. India’s flaw is a poor bowling unit vs. these sides. So it boils down to whether an exceptionally good batting order can beat a good batting/bowling unit.
The other important factor is luck. Thankfully Dhoni is starting to win some tosses now! No team that win somethings does it with bad luck!
I did not want either team to win and my wish was granted. Because both teams had lots of weaknesses which a win would have covered up. This tie will make them play a more tight game where runs will not be gifted so easily. The last over was a treat worth than any win. Thrilling and keeping the suspense till the end.
Bangladesh scored 281 (i think) and now Eng 338. India are performing exceptionally well laregly due to their immense batting lineup. They have match winners in abundance but their bowling is by far the weakest amongst all the other top teams.
Lets see (just my own thoughts)
1. Aus have better bowling attack
2. Eng have better bowling atack (even though they were murdered today)
3. SL have better attack and their spinners are also better
4. SA have a better bowling attack and heck their spinners did better than their seamers in the opener
5. Pak have a solid bowling attack with only abdul razzaq as the weaklink. They have the most inform wicket taker in Afridi on fire and Gul who is amonsgt the best finishers. Just hope Akhtar continues to bowl well.
Now India (except Zaheer Khan who is a world class operator) who do they have really. Bajji is good yes but I can see the top teams really going after him especially SL and Pak. Unfortunately chawla who I saw a bit in IPL (i only watched their games to see Preity Zinta lol) bowls far too many boundary balls. He will ball some beautys but then get hit out of the park and more ofte than not its the latter. Munaf is decent but teams once they’ve settled will just milk him for runs. I can easily see teams hit 6 singles against him without taking any risks. So who else do they have…. sreesanth or nehra ?
But hey on the positive side Yuvi came into a bit of form today and the batting of India still looks so bloody strong.
On a further note NZ most probably will finsih fourth in group A and am sure most teams in group B will prefer to play them than the likes of Aus, Pak and SL. So coming first in group B could be potentially be very important and todays result must have left a big smile on the faces of the SA camp.
saying india has the best batting lineup doesn’t equal things out with the opposition because it doesn’t. If England can score 338 against india and bangladesh 281, aussies or safricans can easily score around 350-360 and there’s no way india can score that much against sides like aus, sa, sri and pak.
England bowled around 5 yorkers in their entire innings to indian batsmen and if compare it to bowling lineups like pakistan umar gul can bowl 5 yorkers in an over.
But it always seems like that. Bangladesh too got a big enough total vs India but didn’t win. And Eng drew it (one would think that they’d win easily if Bangladesh put up 281 on the board) and to be honest many other days India would have won. again you’re either forgetting or choosing to ignore that India is the second highest ranked one day time in the world right and they’ve won in some pretty interesting situations over the last couple of years. All of this doesn’t mean they’re winning the WC. But these early matches aren’t the greatest predictors anyway. In many tournaments teams get hot in the second half. Also sometimes the most favored teams don’t really win. Pakistan couldn’t get beyond the semi-finals in ’97. Even in ’92 they suddenly got hot later, in the first half they had rather mixed results. They had the bowling in both tournaments. And of course since then they’ve never won despite usually being among the better bowling sides. How many tournaments has SA won with great bowling?! Yes the Indian bowling has to do a lot lot better, no doubt about it but hey it’s only two games! And actually if you think about it yesterday after Eng seemed to be really coasting to a win it was precisely the bowlers who caused a collapse later.
I’m hardly someone who thinks that India getting to the final is a given. But hey let’s try to be a little less nationalistic and a little more analytic here! Listening to you one would have the sense that other than Holland everyone’s going to get the better of India!
saying india has the best batting lineup doesn’t equal things out with the opposition because it doesn’t. If England can score 338 against india and bangladesh 281, aussies or safricans can easily score around 350-360 and there’s no way india can score that much against sides like aus, sa, sri and pak.
England bowled around 5 yorkers in their entire innings to indian batsmen and if compare it to bowling lineups like pakistan umar gul can bowl 5 yorkers in an over, so there’s no way india can score 320+ against other bowlings teams and even if they do other teams will be able to chase it, england has a weak middle order with morgan, teams like aus, sa and pakistans strength is their middle order, look at pakistan, their middle order consists of younis, misbah, akmal, afridi and razzak coming in at no. 8!
Pakistan are 6th in the current ODI rankings! This doesn’t mean they’ll do badly in the tournament, I think they’re usually dangerous in the WC. And India can certainly not live upto their numbers. But the point I’m making is that the same team with the same bowling is at # 2 and Pakistan with their bowling are at # 6. How did that happen?
Precisely. Sure India’s bowling is a bit poor but they are still #2 in the world and the #1 test team. So they have proven over time to be a good team.
I would be a bit worried for the Indian team but not scared or think they have no chance. The world cup is not won or lost in the first two games. If it was Australia would not have won the 99 WC! It’s always about momentum and peaking at the right time, luck and timing. Look at Mumbai Indians, they were pretty much the best team throughout the last IPL but they lost the final. In knockout games a lot can happen. India will get to the Q/Fs and then one can see.
Put it this way, its probably very true that Pakistan for the past 20 years have had a better bowling attack then India overall. Still India have not lost to them in a WC. Talent/skill is important, but also luck, courage, playing under pressure helps too. Look at the 2003 WC. Pakistan had Waqar, Akram, Shoaib Akhtar, Afridi, Razzaq vs. Khan, Nehra, Srinath, Kumble and part timers. I know which bowling attack is better on paper there! And India made short work of chasing 273 in a crunch tie with a few overs left to spare.
Sure Australia/SA have better bowling attacks. And the theory they will restrict India is true. But the prediction logically should not stop there. If India have the best batting line-up they will surely ensure SA/Australia chase more than they have to against any other team. One can’t just assume one way traffic.
And Pakistan well they are unpredictable. And with the extra knock-out round of Q/F they will need 3 straight good matches to win the WC. They usually have a couple of good ones , a bad one, a good one etc! SA will have the odd match where they can’t add up their totals and instead of chasing 330 they were chasing 329 and they lose by 1 run or D/L screws them over.
The best teams in WC’s in recent history are SL and Australia. Australia reaching the last 4 finals and SL 2 of the last 4. They on paper have the good balance and good temperament. A betting man would put money on them if they had to put their house on it. Just cos they have historical success and today are very good one day teams.
Indian bowling is attack is pathetic to say the least.Not that it has been great or so ever.In WC 2003,it was somewhat better but it was terribly exposed in final.Aus,Sri,Pak and SA have better bowling attacks.But Indian batting is doing great but how many times will they score 300+?Just batting wont take India beyond Quarter final.
I think zaheer bowls well in the last overs.so he should be brought into the attack late in the innings.Nehra,if fit,should open the bowling with munaf.I prefer ashwin to chawla among spinners.
I have bought the pay per view package from Dish Network. One added attraction this time is that the telecast is in HD and has to be seen to be believed. Cricket (espcially world cup cricket) in HD is a treat to watch espeically on a big screen. Eagerly looking forward to the South Africa and West Indies matches.
“Looking forward to the game between India and England today should be a cracker. My prediction – a tie!”
Soon after the thriller, Warne posted another tweet in which he said, “Before u think there was something untoward re prediction of a tie, thought it was going to be a cracker – tie was tongue in cheek – but right.”
aussies have the best pace attack and s.a the most balanced one
sl attack will struggle against top team apart from malinga in test
in quarters they have to move out and their attack is still the spin oriented attack suited more to their home and still untested
pakistan as i said earlier may cause a upset or two which they did but their attack is still not tested
gul and akhtar are always circumspect against agressive batters though afridi is good but against india won’t be a prob
india has zaheer and bhajji but its high time they have to play sree though people may call for nehra who haven’t played a game still but sree is a match winner on its time (especially when he has allready won you 2 test abroad and some odi’s on his own)
ashwin deserves a place who is far more talented than piyush and a better batsman to … raina is an another useful choice as he is an useful bowler
india and eng are in danger of going of the tournament in the first round now that ireland has beaten eng, if england loses again westindies or sa they’ll be out and if india loses again sa and windies they’ll be out
Mithun said in a recent DID episode that ‘doosro ki picture flop hone se apni hit nahin hoti’. Similarly India losing in the WC is not going to make Pak win it!
“india and eng are in danger of going of the tournament in the first round now that ireland has beaten eng, if england loses again westindies or sa they’ll be out and if india loses again sa and windies they’ll be out”
ya like going in circle like ireland lost to bangladesh and beat englishman today
remember last time they knocked out pakistan to and even pakistan can go out and so do any other team
“Mithun said in a recent DID episode that ‘doosro ki picture flop hone se apni hit nahin hoti’. Similarly India losing in the WC is not going to make Pak win it!”
ha ha thanks for giving remainder about that parson’s nationality which is appearent from post
well roam around on indian site and even comment on indian film industry and its actor and still throw venom about india is a beloved trait of some of people of our western neighbours but they they have to be more bothered how one cricket playing south asian country is lost out and how others souh asian nations are hosting this tournament without any fuss
this in india which on last 2 years has sucessfully hosted common wealth , hockey world cup , cricket world cup , davis cup etc (despite being surrounded by failed neighbour and threats ) and in case of some other country even street teams are not willing to go out
win or loss … world cup will be beneficial to india only in many ways
and to be clear I don’t have a problem with any nationality, Pakistani or otherwise. I was commenting on a certain attitude where the ‘analysis’ seemed to be about little more than a political stance.
and yes I do agree with you that if one has that attitude I don’t know how one can in good conscience be a consumer of Indian cinema.
i’ve seemed to caused a bit of indigestion from my comments here from what i wanted to be a peaceful and logical comment. How is me saying that india AND england might be in the danger of going out of the tournament a political comment?
SA can easily beat india anyday and with the windies batting lineup of gayle bravo and sarwan and pollard against indian bowling lineup the match will be well contested, mentioning pakistan in your hateful posts only shows your disquietude
I’m not just referring to today’s comment but a whole serious of comments on previous occasions. And I didn’t use words like ‘venom’. Let’s not get so melodramatic.
and again to be absolutely clear you have every right to support whatever team you like and wish for the rival team to lose. All sports fans have this prerogative. However if one is analyzing things even in the most minimal, loose sense of the word shouldn’t one account for all the facts? Just the other day I responded to one of your comments by saying that India was currently ranked # 2 among one day teams and Pakistan was ranked # 6. Shouldn’t you account for this when you keep saying that Indian bowling is poor or weak (which by the way no one disagrees with)? The point I’m trying to make is that one can a)adopt partisan positions and only work according to these positions in a discussion b)one can still be a partisan but for the purposes of a debate adopt some sense of ‘fairness’
But yes to the extent that I find people who are anti-India in a knee-jerk sort of way I do wonder how they manage to consume so many Indian films! I would say this in other contexts too.
interesting points. i am partial to both countries. my take on this is that if you dis like india so much then you can’t be watching indian movies, listening to indian music and so forth. heres my stance-
I am a born pakistani, raised in the US, dad is Indian and mom is pakistani. Everyone on my mom’s side of the family have migrated to the US. My dad’s family however still reside in India. So I’ve been to India on many occasions. I have no dislike for India but I fully support the Pakistani cricket team and anything Pakistani related. My famiy in India joke around how I support Pakistan and hate the Indian cricket team. In my mind it has nothing to do with hating the country, its more hating the indian cricket team because they have owned us in the WC and just becuase it is a rivalry(in basketball terms I am a los angeles lakers fan and i hate the boston celtics(being our biggest rivals)), i dont hate the city of boston or the people or the political views of boston. Although India ain’t perfect, it’s far better run than Pakistan.
Pakistan’s biggest downfall has been that it has been so anti-india for the past 20-30 years that it has lost it’s own vision and identity. India is so far ahead that it’s not even focusing on Pakistan anymore.
Whenever I go to India I find the common man has respect for Pakistani cricket and the country itself. The times ive been back to Pakistan sadly the same cannot be said.
agreed. dude is making too many excuses. im not a kobe fan but since he plays for the lakers i am forced to root for him. he bails us out a lot but puts us in a hole too many times. i thought this year would be Gasol’s year to take over but he has been a panzy. i still like our chances though!
Ok some people forget ..providing India beat Ireland and Holland in thier next two games they will qualify with 7 points for the quarter finals..That is one way of still going through even if they did loose twice to sa and windies which I doubt..Since its top 4 a team needs max 6 points
Similar if Ireland even beat Holland they will only have 4 points..IF England beat Bangladesh England will have 5 points and still can get through even if they did loose to Windies and S Africa providing Ireland dont beat either of India , S Africa and Windies
You see all I am saying is ..the point England had with India may well prove vital and almost acts as security providing none of India, S Africa and Windies loose to them..So hopefully India beat Ireland and Holland and us Indian fans can relax
Correction: Providing none of India vs S Africa and Windies loose to Ireland.. the top four teams may well be England, India, Windies and S Africa ..
To be honest to qualify for next round India only has to beat Ireland and Holland.. So since thats India next two fixtures its a great opportunity.. After these two games India should touch wood qualify then the games vs S Africa and Windies dont matter for qualification but only for positioning in the game..Which is why I was reasonably happy India somehow managed to salvage the game vs England..its a very vital point potentially
No problem Satyam it only gets troublesome if Ireland beat any of S Africa, India and Windies.. but to be honest..Ireland has a lot to do to come ahead of any of the 4 test playing nations
Best case they Ireland will beat Holland.. but as said if India beat even two out of Holland, Ireland and S Africa and Windies.. Ireland just to overtake India would have to win 3 of thier remaining 4 four matches.. so providing India dont badly slip up and at least half of thier remaining games they be safe
As for what I prefer..I dont mind who India face in the quarter finals.. sometimes tough situations make champions..I can only think of Australia in 99 having lost two games earlier on and still winning..even in 83 India did loose to Australia and almost Zimbabwe..If India is going to win then they will win no matter..
Remember Pakistans win in 92/93 they lost to India..playing worser then India bowlings performance right now..loosing a lot but somehow won..So lets wait and see
actually I was surprised when Johnnybrutal earlier mentioned that India were in danger of elimination.. didn’t think they could be in danger by just tying one game, that too with Eng. But then I thought they were probably doing the points a bit differently. Didn’t think much about it. This makes sense! and you’re right about Pakistan in ’92, they were in fact quite so-so for the entire first half of the tournament.
its way way too early to say that a certain team will not make it to the quarterfinals. pretty much every team is still in it except a couple obvious teams(canada comes to mind). right now my favs to win it are Aussie, India and South Africa.
Correction: In any case for Ireland to qualify ahead of India..is difficult providing India win half of thier remaning matches
So come on India although Ireland could qualify ahead of Windies and England but once again England and Windies would have to loose more then 2 matches bit for that to happen ..once again the draw between India and England should providing both they get act together from here on in could be vital
It would be hard for India not to qualify.
Re: india and eng are in danger of going of the tournament in the first round now that ireland has beaten eng, if england loses again westindies or sa they’ll be out and if india loses again sa and windies they’ll be out
India can’t reach semis if they bowl like this: Kapil Dev
The man who won India her only World Cup 28 years ago and the finest all-rounder India has produced has given voice to the worst fear of cricket fans across the country.
The legendary Kapil Dev has said India, regarded as hot favourites before the tournament kicked off, can kiss any hopes of even reaching the semifinals goodbye if their bowling attack continues the way it has been in the two games so far.
“With the amount of runs we have conceded in the last two games, I have to be honest, it is difficult to see India even in the semi-finals,” Kapil bluntly told reporters at a promotional event on
“For me, having scored 338 runs, we should have won the match. It still ended in a tie. For that reason the bowlers have to be criticised,” he said, referring to the thriller played out in Bangalore on Sunday.
But he refused to dismiss the team’s chances. “The tournament has only started and the same bowlers have performed well in the past, hence we shouldn’t write them off so early.”
Sreesanth’s lack of focus was the talking point in the first game, leg spinner Piyush Chawla went for plenty against England. Barring Zaheer Khan, none of the bowlers really stood out in Bangalore. Off spinner Harbhajan Singh has managed just one wicket per game, and went for almost six runs per over against England.
Indian hopes now rest on left-arm paceman Ashish Nehra, who is recovering from back trouble and is yet to play a game. Some feel off spinner R Ashwin would do a better job as the second specialist spinner.
The criticism only backs the concerns already expressed by others. For all their depth in batting, India’s unsettled bowling has come in for sharp scrutiny after conceding far too many runs in the first two matches.
The Bangladesh batsmen, although chasing a big total in the opener, handled the Indian bowlers competently. England, on the other hand, chased down the huge total posted by India and the World Cup co-hosts were lucky to come away with a point following the tie.
Kapil Dev’s Devils owed their shock 1983 victory to the way they bowled and fielded. The billion-plus Indian fans are praying the 27-year wait will finally end on home turf this time.
You could make a training film called How To Lose An ODI by making a montage of Pak’s mistakes in the last match: the trouble is, they won
Mukul Kesavan
Watching Pakistan win at the Premadasa on Saturday, I realized that this team isn’t a touring cricket side; it’s a travelling theatre troupe, a lunatic repertory company. Tickets to Pakistan matches ought to cost double: Afridi’s little army creates more drama in a single Power Play than most sides manage in a whole tournament. Imagine an Indian team made up mostly of Sreesanths and you have an inkling of the theatrical potential of this brilliant gang of drama queens.
I felt sorry for Sangakkara’s Sri Lankans. They’re everything a good team ought to be: disciplined, experienced, calm in a crisis and captained by a modern great, a man who talks such a good game that you just know he’ll run for high public office some day. And yet, they came unstuck against a team that seemingly does everything wrong. You could make a training film called How To Lose An ODI by making a montage of Pakistani mistakes in Saturdays match: the trouble is, they won.
The Sri Lankan chase began well; after a slow start, Tharanga and Dilshan eased past fifty and the commentators, specially Wasim Akram, started disparaging Afridis hyperactive captaincy style. He wasn’t giving Abdur Razzaq the fields the bowler wanted, he was talking to experienced bowlers like Shoaib Akhtar and Umar Gul after every ball, he was, in short, trying to be all eleven players instead of leading them. The television producers obviously agreed because they promptly played a spliced-together sequence of Captain Afridi in action that showed him gesturing, shouting, glowering, despairing, all in his distracted operatic style.
At that point, when the Sri Lankans had cruised past seventy at better than five runs an over without having lost a wicket, the message from the commentators was clear: this is not how a team should be led. I could see some clever copy editor rehearsing the next day’s headlines: ADHD Sinks Afridi. And it wasn’t only Afridi who was writing this script. His wicket keeper Kamran Akmal first charged down the pitch and managed to run out Mohammad Hafeez, then charged down the pitch and had himself stumped. He had done exactly this in the previous match against Kenya, so his claim to being the Cups Kamikaze King was now undisputed.
Forget rushing down the pitch, watching Kamran do nothing is riveting. His eyes stare, his teeth flash, he yips like an Apso on adrenaline. Just to confirm every cliché about Pakistani cricket, you had Shoaib Akhtar on the field. He first turned up in an interview before the match smiling dangerously and declaring he didn’t care what people thought about him. I’ve heard him say this so often that it felt like a flashback. This is a man who’s been banned more often than most revolutionary parties. Luckily for us, he’s always unbanned, because theres nothing in sport more gloriously weird than Shoaib in action. During the match, Umar Akmal botched a throw while Shoaib was bowling. On cue Shoaib kicked the stumps and so powerful is the presence of this ageing prima donna, that in the deep field poor Umar kicked the air in contrition.
I counted at least three dropped catches, two fluffed stumpings and countless missed run-out chances when the Sri Lankans were batting. Everyone contributed: Younis Khan dropped one, Abdur Rahman put down a sitter, this Pakistan team is an equal opportunity firm.
Yet they won.
And Captain Afridi was the star of this movie. He hit sixteen runs off six balls, took four wickets with unplayably fast leg-breaks and googlies and, despite the fuss about his leadership style, his desperate, raging need to win was the gravitational force that held his rabble together. He won because along with the clowns in the team, he had two straight men, Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq, who ignored the madness around then and methodically built the partnership than won Pakistan the match. This being Pakistan, Misbah-ul-Haq is a Pathan hero straight from Central Casting: he’s so splendidly hook-nosed that even enclosed in his helmet he looks like a hawk.
When they’re bad, Pakistani teams are awful. Their recent history of factional discord, divided dressing rooms, dishonest players and assorted craziness has sometimes made them dysfunctional. But there’s no team in cricket that has more electricity about it. Even its profligacy, the extravagance with which it wastes its prodigious gifts, is a spectacle that’s worth the price of a ticket. I wouldn’t bet on the Pakistanis, but there’s an outside chance that they could steal this thing because even when they play like the Keystone Cops, the script in their heads is always Oceans Eleven.
“All i’d like to say to you is that a coward is incapable of exhibiting love it is the prerogative of the brave- Gandhi”
johnnybrutal: gandians never call other cowards .. i would be more happy if you would called me directly to show your so called courage
btw i called some of them and their traits which is a harsh fact whether you like it or not …most of liberal pakis in overseas get along nicely with indians and are pretty nice to hang out with
one of my elders brother’s fast friend is from lahore right from his masters days and we genrally get to know about many propagandas and even many friendly arguments
further venom is what i mean seriosly because its appearent from your post :
in the first post you hail pakistan its good but degradation of india was not needed
in the second you talked about match fxing and for ICC to take action … cmmon it was a funy tweet from shane( the guy who himself had linked with bokies and was fined its harachiry to expect any exposure from him)
anyway that was a funny tweet and we can even more amusing to see how formar pakistan cricketers can take it seriously when no other in world cricket did
yersterday you talked how india will be out with your logic but you forgot it may still reach quarters by 3 more ways and one of them has been told by cricket rules
cmmon its appearent from post be honest about it anyway india loss will not make pak winners
May I suggest that we refrain from using words like – Pakis? There may be no intention but sounds derogatory. Pak is okay as is Pakistan or Pakistanis.
“but again i will refrain from stating how thousands of Muslims and Sikhs and Christians were burned alive in india, samjhota express being burned to ashes with narendar modis men caught red handed and no action been taken regarding that.”
if talking about cricket is an impurity then i’m sorry i can’t do that, again it started off with me saying india AND england are in danger of going out and if that’s going to make you so sensitive then you shouldn’t come on public forums, there’s a reason why this is called the WORLD WIDE WEB
LOL Alex….maybe you can teach SRK and other wannables of BW about how to be irreverent and funny instead of lame and irritating with their “risque banters”!
“LOL Alex….maybe you can teach SRK and other wannables of BW about how to be irreverent and funny instead of lame and irritating with their “risque banters”!”
Many Thanks Matrix….for the kind wordz…Not a problem at all!
“uncontrolled adrenaline AND testosterone!”
HAppy to be the “voice of sanity” to prevent this “riot” between iffron, and brutal and others!
Anyhow, enjoyed mukul kesavans piece on the theatrical pakistani team–no offence though!
Really v entertaining piece!
Ok, Brutal—show your brutality–time to celebrate your afridis perfromance! Go for it ( but use rubber!) lol
Ok guys, I have deleted a number of comments here which were completely unproductive and beyond the pale as these were frankly examples of political hate speech. We don’t need to get into problematic examples of politics as a slur even in a properly political debate.
Johnnybrutal.. I will say that no one is ‘sensitive’ about the Indian team. You have either been misinformed or are being unfair. I started off all this with a simple point (which I stand by) that when analyzing these things one should move out of the nationalist box a little bit. For example Pakistan did very well against SL the other day defending a low total. But they also batted pathetically against Can today and required Afridi’s heroics yet again. These things happen. But I don’t see you making the sorts of comments after the Can game that you did before and after the India/Eng game.
Of course it’s your prerogative to be simply nationalistic here. I don’t mind it as long as it’s done in civil fashion. Similarly you too shouldn’t mind my criticism when it too is delivered with civility. No need to raise the temperature by introducing words like ‘venom’ and so on. You were later acting a bit naive and pretending I was going after you for no reason but your remarks were consistently going in a certain direction. It was brought up 3 times and each time you did not respond to why Indian is the world’s # 2 ODI team and why Pak is # 6. But again I don’t have a problem with your agenda, such as I see it, but don’t also say people are going after you.
For the record it is an Indian here and someone who hails from Narendra Modi’s state who asked Iffrononfire not to use the word ‘Paki’ and I agree completely here. So no need to tar everyone with the same brush.
Finally there was no need to describe you roots. You are not on trial for them. I don’t particularly care where anyone comes from as this does not define my ‘sense’ of anybody. I only go by what is ‘said’ here and that’s a big distinction.
Iffrononfire.. Don’t think you should get so worked up about these things either.
Finally guys as my personal prerogative here any untoward remarks about the Ganges are off-limits! No one shall insult this great river here!
1. I was here to point out pakistans pathetic batting performance against canada before you commented on it, so maybe you should read the comments properly.
2. India is the #2 Odi team in the world but i’d advice you to check their performance in the previous 4 ICC world events and you’ll get your answer
3. You choose to ignore who started the political rant here with comments on the “trait” of pakistanis.
4. Again the word venom was not introduced here by me, it was your friend who said i’m spreading venom against india.
I would surely love a reply from you on this since as you’ve accused me of a number of things which i didnt do.
I’m not describing my roots to anyone of you because i dont care, i was just letting you know that why i’m supporting both pakistan and australia because i’m sorry to say some geniuses here think that i’m attacking them because i hate indians which i dont because my grandmother is indian and she lives in hindnagar colony
On the rest I was skimming through the comments so I might have misjudged things here and there. But I did delete all of Iffrononfire’s comments too.
I also checked the comments and saw that the latter introduced the word ‘venom’ in an older comment.. I see he was referring to other forums and so on but yes he shouldn’t have said some of the stuff he did and I mentioned it in the earlier response. However I was relying here on my exchange with you more than anything else. And I introduced the nationalist charge and I stand by it. And again I did not have a problem with it except to critique it. But many Pakistanis have relatives in India. Doesn’t make them neutral about India!
On the rest if you’re getting into the WC record yes there are lots of interesting things. SL have never beaten Pak in the WC, Pak have never beaten India and so on. Again your reliance on the facts is very selective. Similarly you mentioned the other day about how India could be eliminated. later (as you can see in the comments) we discovered a very different picture. So wouldn’t you say all of your comments go in a certain anti-Indian direction?! This is not so on Pakistan. I would challenge anyone to look at this thread and come to a different conclusion.
But again I do NOT have a problem with this bias. It might be natural, it is certainly historical but I do not have an issue with it. I pointed it out, you should have accepted it as opposed to suggesting some of us were over-reacting. This is not to excuse some of Iffrononfire’s comments. He tends to get emotional sometimes and also I think his usage of certain phrases are less meant to provoke than might seem to be the case. I’m saying this because I know him. But in any case if someone is reacting that way it is not necessary to follow up in the same vein. One can respond without making it a reply in kind. Nonetheless if you note my ‘argument’ with you is still about the ‘nationalistic’ bit and not the other stuff.
by the way here’s Afridi:
“I think it’s an open tournament with no one favourite team,” said Afridi. “I think India is one of the top favourites. South Africa has been playing well and Australia can still win,” said the Pakistan captain.
And to be even more clear I don’t want you to think that you are less welcome here if you going to support Pak in cricket or if you’re going to be tougher on India. But my criticism was of the sort where I sometimes accuse SRK fans of being knee-jerk about certain things to do with him and so forth. I thought that your debate was following a certain nationalistic script. But you are free to do so everday as long as it’s civil just as I too have the right in equally civil fashion to point out what I consider a ‘bias’.
The Performance of Shahid Afridi is reminding me one of his earliest International Series – Carlton and United series 1996-97 in Australia.
It was between Australia,West Indies and Pakistan.
At that point WI was still a very strong side(though they had lost the shine and top dominant slot after losing home and away test series to Aus 1995 and 1996 resp). Infact their loss to Aus in 1995 home series was first test series loss of their’s in 15 years.
And then we had next number 1 contender Aus at home, strong as ever.
In the end,we had Pakistan, Mercurial as ever with a new young star 16 years old Afridi.
It was a evenly contested series with Australia Starting with a bang but later losing steam.WI was solid throughout with Lara being big performer.
Pakistan eventually started having upset wins against Aus, but not much against WI.
WI and Pak qualified for the finals and with Aggression of Afridi in the forefront, Pak defeated WI with Lara even with his all might of 400+ runs in the series couldnt stop them.
Afridi was man of the finals(they had 2 finals) and that was indeed one of the most celebrated starts to a cricketing career.
I have never been fan of Afridi’s batting. I think someone with “intelligent” bowling will always get him whenever he is playing those one of those blinder innings.
ahh doga this brought back a lot of pleasant memories. IMHO those were the golden days of ODI. If I’ve to pin point exactly, this period started with the Carlton and United series of 1995-1996 (when Srilanka truly exploded onto the ODI scene) and continued till the tournament in Sharjhah when Sachin scored two epic back to back centuries against Australia.
Sure there were great players and matches before the above mentioned period and after that also. But during those years everything came together perfectly. Each match felt special, the stakes seemed to be very high. Srilanka of that era deserve a lot of credit for making ODIs so interesting, especially their opening pair Kalu and Jayasurya (though not truly unique they deserve to be recognized for starting the trend of attacking in the first 15 overs).
ya and it will be after 12 year that pak will reach second round of wc
that is only 2 world cups ago. pak’s been good in WC’s just the last two have been horrible. and i think it totally correlates with how pakistan as a country has slipped in the past 12 years.
i think the only way india and pakistan face each other is in the finals..and that will be freaking incredible. nothing would be better than beating india in the finals..for a world cup IN mumbai, india with all odds against pakistan. atleast for a pakistani fan nothing could get better!
I’m not saying this because pak is #6 in their rankings but in these tournaments rankings hardly matter, playing a one on one series and a world tournament are completely different things, if rankings were of any importance in these tournaments the South african team would’ve reached the finals or semis of every friggin icc event from the past decade and atleast would’ve won a few
As I said at the beginning of the debate either teams that are overwhelmingly good win or those that produce surprises. WC history shows both. Ultimately India has won it once and Pakistan once. In 1987 neither side reached the final. Pakistan was especially expected to do so because they had a strong side at the time, Aus wasn’t the team they later became and India wasn’t expected to lose to Eng. Both teams lost. India beat the mighty WI in ’83. In ’96 SL upended Aus. In ’92 Pak pulled it off after playing a poor first half and when they were less favored than in ’87. One could continue with these examples. So yes there’s no correlation between a team’s standings (though your initial point was about their weak bowling and the standings show they could do it despite this.. weaker bowling can be as exposed over a series) and a tournament where it’s eventually about one game knockouts. At the same time the opposite isn’t true either. So Pak have looked dangerous in many World Cups but they’ve only won one in 35 years! They certainly look dangerous this time and could go deep but I’d be a bit surprised to see them win it all because I think that there has to be just that right mix of experience and youth on a team which they don’t quite have. They might be good enough to knock out some good teams, winning it all requires a consistency that I’m not sure this team possesses. Wouldn’t be horribly shocked if it happened though. so again one can’t look at the facts selectively. SA incidentally have always underperformed in the WC. Not every top team is like that. Leaving this aside in any tournament rankings do matter. Teams might or might not live upto those expectations but that’s all we have to go on. So again no necessarily correlation here but the reverse isn’t true either.
good point on pakistan’s current team. i can’t see this team beating aussie or even NZ. Afridi is no Imran Khan and Shoib Akhtar aint no Akram. our batting is not disciplined enough or even consistent enough to beat india, SA and Aussie. and our bowling isn’t good enough either. Afridi is playing out of his mind right now but i don’t see his will carrying us that far. i believe we are still young and still too immature. if we were mature we wouldn’t come out and take the Canadian’s lightly.
Pakistan was able to get their ‘bad’ game out of the system and got away with a W. The way it looks now, the match between PAK and AUS will decide who is 1 and 2 in Group A. Group B is wide open now thanks to the England – India tie and Ireland’s remarkable win against England.
Afridi is on some tear right now. 3 straight 4+ wickets to start the WC.
As for India and England, I am not really sure what these two sides can do to get their bowling back on track. England has given up 290 + in 3 straight games (2 of those agains the Ireland and Holland!!!). James Anderson has been taken to cleaners in this WC which some predicted would happen to him on South Asian wickets. India have Zaheer and on one else. They need to at least 2 other bowlers to setup up big time because the batsmen can’t be expected to score 340 in every game.
Pakistan has a strange cricketing history.
They do produce enormously talented players and with right leaders can play their hearts out. But they are consistently let down by administrative bungles and fights and political interference. And latley, some other scandals. They are always capable tho of spoiling someones party.
the team reflects the national mess in many ways.. It’s not surprising in that sense.. on that note they just assassinated the only Christian minister in the govt yesterday. This following on the heels of another assassination just recently. But getting back to cricket whatever their team produces it’s pure talent. It certainly can’t be the organizational structure! Feel sorry for the team though. They deserve better.
Saying that “they” assassinated their only christian leader is a bit funny, as the nation got together and conspired to kill this one christian guy. Again i dont want to get into politics so i’d rather not comment, maybe there should be a a seperate thread for that because that’s been the popular topic. And your national mess theory isnt really logical, how have they reached the finals and semis of the last 4 world tournaments when they were in this mess at that time too?
In case of a Pak India match in the Wc, India would certainly have the upper hand because of the Wc history and home advantage, but there certainly wont be a Pak india match this time, however there will be a India Aus match and Aus will be ready to kick some arse.
Saying Pak is not equipped to beat NZ is stupid. In anycase the team at the top of group A will benefit the most as they’ll most likely face windies in their quater final match which will be a certain win as all teams in group A have a strong bowling lineup. it is certain aus or pak will be at the top of the group A.
C’mon ‘they’ is a loose phrasing! But the comment is very clear if you care to re-read it. The ‘national mess’ gets manifested in the terrible organizational structure of Pakistani cricket that actually no Pakistani I have ever known has denied. Even in the 80s Imran Khan famously took things over like a dictator more or less because he felt the board was miserable. In any case whatever is being achieved is on pure talent. This too I made clear. These weren’t anti-Pakistan statements but my assessment of the way things are. I have at other points criticized India aplenty when it comes to fascist leaders and so on. But I can’t offer India-Pakistan parity here as that would be quite absurd. I don’t know if you’re asking for this but quite often a certain tit-for-tat competitive sense enters these discussions. I can’t say I am led by political correctness in these matters. I consider Pakistan a bit of a political basket-case but not because I am biased or anything. I would in fact consider it unreasonable to hold any other opinion in this matter. This doesn’t mean anything for the people of that country. And again for me it is fairly obvious that one critiques nations, ideologies, ‘states-of-mind’. Otherwise people are the same everywhere. Historical interventions can however greatly alter how people ‘think’ and sometimes ‘behave’. But in any case I don’t ‘essentialize’ national behavior. And people who cannot accept these truths about their nations are I would submit part of the problem. Because solutions begin with recognition. Getting back to my own comment they’ve (yes ‘they’!) had two assassinations in a matter of weeks and each for challenging blasphemy laws which as far as I can tell are disgusting to begin with and are simply one more instrument of the state to repress and coerce minorities in all sorts of ways. This to me is a part of the larger national malaise which then gets reflected in the cricket structure which was ‘challenged’ to begin with. Now you might say that I shouldn’t have introduced politics at all or not offered opinions on a nation in a cricket discussion but I don’t see it that way. It certainly wasn’t a gratuitous remark. And I don’t believe in boxes anyway when it comes to a discussion. There should be a logical connection of course and I believe I offered that here. And again I have been as blunt in many other contexts including those involving India.
As for Aamirfan’s comment about not beating NZ I probably disagree there but I don’t find the comment to be ‘stupid’ either.
“but there certainly wont be a Pak india match this time, however there will be a India Aus match and Aus will be ready to kick some arse.”
are you sure just 2 days back you said india won’t reach 2 nd round and now you are all eager for india vs aus 2nd round match when pak aus match is on cards now
again contradicting yourself and calling others as stupids and using language like arse amd cowards in the name of gandhian philosphy
i wonder what is the bigger stupidity
have you ever heard of your pcb chief , politicians and othrs who say the same things what satyam has said
hillarious indeed
was salman taseer or minority affairs minister was not killed within a span of 2 months
look around what your president is saying that its a new phenomenon to kill every moderate voice in your country
just arguing without any conviction won’t change the truth
1. I never said india wont reach the second round, if i did i’d ask you to copy and paste that comment and i’ll happily apologize to you, however i did say that england and india and in danger of going out
2. Pakistan recently beat nz both in tests and odis in nz so pakistan not being able to beat nz in the subcontinent is stupid
3. There is certainly a problem in the organizational structure of pcb and alot of corruption in the political setup in Pakistan but saying the assassinations are carried out by pakistanis without any proofs is again very silly. You guys talk about these assassinations in the span of two months, heck forget about these assassinations, lets talk about the dozens of suicide attacks carried out here, has it ever been proven that pakistanis actually conduct them? Talking about Pakistan exporting terrorism in the world, which country has been on the receiving end of terrorism? It’s Pakistan. What about the hundreds of blackwater agents operating in Pakistan, killing civilians which isnt even reported in the media. The day raymond davis was caught in pakistan there was another american caught in peshawar after two days with explosives, raymond davis himself has links to several shady organizations. Now talk about unrest in Pakistan, who is the beneficiary of this unrest? Which country is the most strategically placed country in the subcontinent? Every single country has it’s problems and they solve them internally, india is said to be the next super power of the world, yet after more than 50 years of independence india has the most poverty in the whole world. India itself is going through an internal war when several massacres are happening everyday and the govt hasnt been able to control it yet, look at what’s happening with the maoist rebels across the country and how thousands of people have been brutally killed.
Talking about Pakistan exporting terrorist when the indian national cecurity advisor himself has said that there are as many as 800 local terrorist cells operating in the country. Look at what happened in gujrat? thousands of christians burned alive, muslims burned alive, isnt india the worlds largest democracy? Look at whats happening in punjab, bihar, nagaland, assam and several other states. This is the internal problem india and facing and looks whats happening, in 600 states over 200 mutiny has started taking place.
Again i had no interest in discussing politics, it was brought up by you guys and i was forced to reply, every country has internal problems which they have to solve internally
Johnybrutal – You are taking information from anti-India outlets (and there are many). There are problems but not to extent you are describing. Last major riots happened in Gujarat. We may contest the official numbers (which is less than 1000 and unoffically it is 2000) but the ratio of Muslim and Hindus killed was 2:1 . And there were no christians involved. Most of the people acknowledge that what happened shouldn’t have happened (even the party which was in power and blamed for riots has many leaders express regret at events). I am not suggesting that everything is normal but things are much better even with diversity of billion population.
actually I didn’t want to get into the specifics because frankly this is just a hysterical response from JohnnyBrutal and not a calm, cool debate with some minimal measure of objectivity. But I do agree with you. I am the harshest critic of some of the violence that happens within Indian borders but all said and done and given the scale of India’s diversity in every sense imaginable the Indian post-Independence experiment has been stunningly successful in very many ways and to a degree that almost seems miraculous. Allowing for all the contexts I think this history could be put up against that of any other democracy. the US in the 19th century wasn’t a pretty place (among other things pretty much an entire minority population was exterminated, another was enslaved). If one looks at the arc of European democracy there has been extraordinary and even historically unique violence in many instances. Given what could have gone wrong in India it is remarkable that the democracy has endured so well. And one could look at various parameters of human progress as well as the very idea of Indian nationhood which has only grown stronger over time.
Are there lots of problems? Absolutely. But I will not be lectured to on this by anyone who refuses to recognize problems in Pakistan.
Not sure who you’re really arguing with here! The NZ comments were made by Aamirsfan not myself, just don’t think there’s anything ‘stupid’ about them.
On the rest in your emotional outburst (which is all over the place and unfortunately proves everything I’ve been trying to say) you seem to have expanded the whole debate into all sorts of things. But let me address this stuff:
1)Actually there’s no evidence connecting the Modi government with anything that happened in Gujarat. So do you want to take that line on ‘evidence’ here that you’ve just presented on Pakistan?! Frankly I find these claims a bit disingenuous. Showing a great deal of commitment to juridical standards only when one’s side is being discussed not otherwise. It’s like folks who aren’t ‘secular’ in the least jumping up and down only when their interests are threatened. One should be consistent.
2)Not sure what ‘Pakistanis’ means here. There’s mayhem in the country. I don’t think they’re all ‘foreign agents’! But in any case whoever suggested that Pakistanis weren’t getting killed in the violence or that ordinary people were the worst sufferers. This happens all the time. But here mostly Pakistanis are killing other Pakistanis. But all this was anyway not my point. I made a simple comment that Pakistan is a political basket-case. Whatever the reasons might be.
3)As for India actually many of us here have discussed many of those issues at extraordinary length both in this forum and on NG. No one denies those problems. Again one can have different perspectives on these things but to even deny that there is a problem is a bit strange isn’t it?! Or does identifying problems in India reduce the ones in Pakistan? Of course I cannot think of any serious expert of any kind anywhere in the world who’d think Pakistan and India are comparable in any sense but perhaps you could find me someone! Every nation can avoid facing upto its own problems but just pointing to others. Not sure what this provides beyond a false sense of security. Hey we’re not so bad. Look at the Congo! This kind of avoidance or evasion is part of the problem! Blaming everyone in the world but oneself is a classic avoidance of responsibility. As is trying to change the terms of the debate with one poor ‘excuse’ after another…
1)Look at India
2)Someone other than a ‘Pakistani’ is responsible for all of Pakistan’s problems
3)Who doesn’t have problems?
Again note how the reasons are mutually exclusive! You continue to believe I am attacking Pakistan. I am not. I have said volumes on Indian politics, or the harshest stuff about Indian cinema, so on and so forth. You would yourself describe dozens of other countries the way I have described Pakistan. But you choose to be blind in this situation or else it’s the old India/Pakistan binary logic where nothing must be accepted before Indians. Let’s be serious. Don’t think people have started attacking you here. Your own emotional outburst is now on a forum where I would guess most are Indians.
As I said the other day hey India’s not too bad! I’m sure you’re not consuming Pakistani movies! Think about this for a while.
>_> cant believe some of the comments here by johnnybrutal in the main. I will sum up I have a few muslim friends being a Indian and even they wouldnt approve some of the comments here.
Why cant India and Pakistan fans get along its abit silly to be honest.
Back to the cricket in a minute.. its comments like in this topic that a lot of people at times dont want Pakistan to win..because of the minority of the fans turning everything into religion and politics. Sport is sport guys
Now to the cricket..I remember the world cup 92 very well..everyone thought Pakistan had a weak bowling line up..an aging Imran Khan, wasim akram..mustaq ahmed who that point wasnt that successful and the ok aquib javed. They didnt look penetrative until they got the run going..Am hoping when India get things something similar can..if not never mind
I just dont want a predictable Australia and S Africa final.. if India cant win it then hopefully S Africa can..I like the unpredictability they are trying to bring and @Satyam..I am just as passionate and knowledgable on films..but I will share my views eventually on Bollywood
JohnnyBrutal would say he didn’t introduce the politics here.. but on the more recent thing about Pakistan being a national mess I was responding to Rajen, not him and my point was that Pakistan often had talented teams and a better organizational structure would have served them well. But of course given the way everything else was in the country one could hardly expect the cricket board to be super.
Earlier I criticized him for being ‘nationalistic’ when discussing the Indian team as it was all one-sided and clearly seemed to betray a bias. And I continue to think, even as these biases are hardly surprising in the subcontinent, that one can strive to be just a little objective in some of these debates.
The reason I am summarizing all of this once more is because with these longer threads sometimes the original points are lost and everyone can freely accuse everyone else. JohnnyBrutal and Iffrononfire then got into a hotter political argument and I removed many of those comments.
Of course I do recognize that political references in these contexts often excite people but I see no reason to completely avoid conversations because of this. The hope is that everyone can act in civil fashion.
your’e reasonable dude satyam. don’t think you are anti-pakistan. i actually agreed on some of the points you made on pakistan’s instability and how it has directly affected the cricket team.
I think I’d agree with most of what’s being said here. I would perhaps and as a general matter deviate a touch on her liberal society getting smaller point. Minorities can hijack complacent and or confused (in the ways the author has described) liberal cross-sections of society rather easily and gradually increase their influence over time. When those same liberal orders actually wake up it’s too late. Iran was a very similar situation. And it’s not just religious extremism either. If you let any political ideology become a monster it’s very hard to get rid of it. But such monsters are also formed when a society and/or a political order has inherent ideological weaknesses or vulnerabilities. So when you found a state on the basis of religion certain consequences follow. When you bow down to fascist political parties and their cultural policing larger problems abound in turn. So on and so forth.
In fairness I’d say that Pak in ’92 was still way better in terms of the bowling than the current Indian team. Akram alone would be worth everyone else put together! And though at the very fag end Imran was nonetheless treated with respect. Also in general many of the bowlers did well on that tour (Aaqeb Javed was often great..) and in general because Imran Khan was of course very good as a bowler-captain. Much as we see for example someone like Sachin who’s guided many younger players through very critical innings. Sehwag’s triple century in Multan for example where he said later he couldn’t have done it on that occasion without sachin’s guidance. But getting back to Pakistan they’ve generally had strong bowling attacks since Imran Khan. Having said that I have never been too impressed by all the bowlers who followed the two Ws. I just don’t think that they’re of the same caliber by any stretch. But yes they still keep throwing out a lot of gifted pace attacks though sadly half are lost depending on the season to one scandal or the other.
Very true satyam just I didnt think aquib was that great he was good though..took a hatrick vs India at Sharjah but was steady..I always put him more in the Micheal Kaprowiz mould (you know the australian bowler whose spelling I got wrong)
Getting back to the present..whats hurt India in recent times..the lack of development of R P Singh and Ishant Sharma..R P Singh back in 07 was so good vs England and Ishand later that winter vs Australia..At that time I remember it looked India had enough bowlers..R P Singh..ishant, munaf, sreesanth, nehra..now it dont
Munaf was pacier then this..dont know what happens with the bowlers after a couple of seasons..Still think India can do it as long as thier bowling at least improves 50%..To me its a crying shame Irfan Pathan never got enough chances
Sri Lanka vs Australia will also the best indicator yet of how the Australian team is going to go this world cup
Thank You Satyam, rajen and cricketrules for being understanding towards Pak. On NG a few are bashing the team just coz a few have been caught out for cheating. At the end of the day Pak are the real losers, because they have lost the greatest talent to come out of Pakistan since last two W’s (Mohammed Amir).
I love to watch games played between Pak and India on YouTube (old games). However, the amount of hatred which goes on in the comment scetion truly baffles me. They discuss everything BUT cricket. Heck, am a British Pakistani and the team I play for is run by White English people. They have always been very warm to me even though they are fully aware of the turmoil in Pak and as much as it hurts me to say even the problems ‘some’ Muslims have cuased around the world. Yet, when we play we play together and colour, race etc nothing matters but cricket.
Now with the above out of the way (hope I havn’t offended anyone) I would like to add that I do consider Pak as one of the favs. I know many ex cricketers are of a different view but this is when Pak are at there most dangerous. I remember just a year back or so when Pak were in the semi finals v SA (Twenty20 Lords). No one gave them a chance, the british media had SA as hot favs but we all know what happened. The game the other day, batting wise was AWFUL. However, on the positive side they bowled well and I can bet a few years ago they would have lost that game. There is a real togetherness amongst the team and with the Captain Afridi leading the way it can only lead to bigger and better things.
Our openers are yet to click (I had high hopes on them especially the 19 year old Ahmed Shezad). For some reason they are far too cautious in the early overs and all they do in the end is throw their wicket away. This instantly brings pressure on Kamran Akmal (who should be batting at 7 or 8 not at 3). Misbah has been the rock for the last 6 months and with the class of Younis Khan Pak certainly can score good runs.
So far in this world cup Pak are yet to chase. When they do bat second it will be interesting to see how they go about it. The team v NZ is already in place but they are in a bit of a dilemma in who to pick Saeed Ajmal or Abdur Rehman. Good problems though
On the cheating bit I personally sympathize with the players. Not that it’s ok to do some of this stuff but I suspect the board led them on a bit and then eventually had to come down hard on them when there was exposure. Don’t know all the details but just find it hard to believe that no one knew anything about all of this.
By the way your comment is a perfectly reasonable one. Absolutely nothing to get offended about at all.
I dont want India Pakistan face off for obvious reasons and fear the obvious hysteria.
But the thrill is too much. Like watching a reality show on a mammoth scale. Either way, one set of the cricketers will be crucified. For some, the match will be jehad and for others the match will be a feast.
If Pandavas and Kauravas played cricket with their supporters making the required number of players, Krishna and Shakuni playing umpires, it would have been like an Indo Pak match. I dont hate Kauravas at all. Though I feel they are always arrogant.
Agree. A good knock by sangakaara.
Although find his eloquence better than his batsmenship—has a budding career as a politician later on…
Saw a few “balls” of the match…Noticeable how much kretja and the other warne style kiddie actually “spinning” the ball. Bhajji for all his doosras and varaitions, does everyhting but spin the ball much…
When the absence pf guys like nehra and praveen kr is felt so much, it shows the quality of the current bowling attack!
A bit wary even of ireland now!!
yes…everytime…. i don’t think anyone would know what its like being an SA fan… we are left disappointed always! I see no hope for us in this world cup…none…!!!
Having a strong team that underperforms is much worse than having a relatively weak team.. I’d agree there. Somehow they’re unable to surprise in those tricky situations.
meanwhile India lost two quick wickets against Ire and it’s disappointing that they will in all probability need a significant inning from Sachin to get to a 200 total!
Film promos during matches to grab eyeballs
Bharati Dubey, TNN | Mar 5, 2011, 06.10am IST
MUMBAI: Bollywood has jumped onto the cricket bandwagon to promote and market its releases. While films like Houseful 2, Patiala House, Dum Maro Dum and Thank You are making the most of the World Cup matches to reach out to viewers, Zindagi Naa Mile Dobara, Ready and Delhi Belly will use IPL to garb maximum eyeballs during the nearly three-month long cricketing season.
“The best way to strike a chord with the nation at the moment is through cricket. We will launch the title song of Dum Maro Dum during the India-South Africa match in Nagpur. By doing so, we would be able to reach out to the maximum number of people,” said Vijay Singh of Fox Studios.
Sajid Nadiadwala, who has shot a special promo of Houseful 2 for the World Cup, said, “We have been working with the World Cup organizers for quite a few years. This would the first time that a film is being marketed even before it has gone on the floor. Shooting for Houseful 2 will start in April, but the promos are already on air. They are telecast at least 30 times a day during the World Cup matches.”
The returns that one gets through the promotions, said Nadiadwala, are equivalent to the cost of the film and benefit the producer.
The World Cup organizers are being approached by many production houses for collaboration during the games. An ESPN spokesperson said, “We are very selective and have tied up with producers of Patiala House, Houseful 2 and Dum Maro Dum. Deepika will attend the Nagpur match on March 12. Many more such deals may be inked if India makes it to the semi final and final.”
Akshay Kumar-starrer Thank You, slated for April release, will also be marketed aggressively during the World Cup matches. A source from UTV said, “World Cup is one tournament that does not need stars to attract viewers. We are in talks with the organizers.”
Producers are also trying to exploit the popularity of the Indian Premiere League. It is learnt that producers of Delhi Belly, Zindagi Naa Mile Dobara and Ready are close to striking deals. Sneha Rajani of Set Max said, “Nothing has been finalized yet, but such tie-ups usually happen a few weeks before the tournament.”
Bhushan Kumar of T-series which is producing Ready said, “We are in talks with the organizers of IPL. Besides, we also need to work out the dates of Salman Khan, who is shooting for Bodyguard.”Multiplexes and cricket
The World Cup matches are currently being screened only by PVR cinemas. The other multiplex owners are still in talks with the broadcasters of the tournament. CEO of Cinemax Cinemas Sunil Punjabi said, “Nothing has worked out for the World Cup but we are still hopeful of screening the semi finals and the finals. But as of now we have an alternate programming in place which is going to be pan India which is spread over four weeks which includes Hollywood’s sci-fi movies like Avtaar, Inception and 2012, a Rajnikanth films week and regional film festival.”
Big Cinemas will not be screening World Cup matches and will continue with its regular programming . Ashish Saxena, of Big Cinemas said, ” We are definitely looking at screening IPL matches.”
The absence of any big releases in next forty days has made the filmmakers look for alternatives as there would be minimum footfalls in the theatres, which are primary promotional venue for films, during the entire month of March.
India are trying their best.. I think losing the toss against Ireland proved to be expensive for the former.. The Irish are good fighters and have some very good fielders
Overall it was an ok performance from India, not convincing. Ireland have shown to be a decent side, India should still be dominating them but least now with one more win against the Netherlands India are in the Q/F’s.
People worry too much.. For India Sachin is always key and I would also say so is Dhoni, Yuvraj.. Remember Dravid and Yuvraj in WC 2003 finishing off after Sachins set up.. Yuvraj had been out of form but touch wood is getting back.. its about peaking at the right time..Anyones WC this
Remember Sri Lanka WC 96 thier attack was heavily spin oriented..Was it just Zoya and Vaas and the spinners? ..With thier bowling attack they shouldnt have won the WC but they did.. Interesting WC so far..Would love it if India can fit in Nehra vs Holland ..Nehra could well be key if he gets fit and gets his confidence up
Anyways keep things in perspective everyone.. off course it be nice if India can do it..
Back after a short trip to India where I not only missed out on any cricketing action, but also a chance to see Bachchan in Bhopal! Life’s too busy in India to spare time on cricket & films.
I did follow the match where the Irish upset the English. I felt as tense during the closing moments as I would’ve felt if the Indians were doing the chasing! There’s nothing better than a great underdog story in sport, or life, for that matter.
Missed out on the England Vs SA thriller. Felt disgusted watching India bowl against England, and can’t quite be sure of my initial predictions anymore. This is the most “open” WC ever!
I see a lot of comments made after a certain game is played out, but the manner in which the results have panned out, only suggest a huge element of luck involved in the final outcome. If Pakistan can be threatened by Canada and India have to grit it out against Ireland, one can never be sure of any outcome!
Akhtar just gave away the damn match with his totally absurd bowling. that has carried onto the other bowlers now who have totally unraveled. this is what i mean when i say we are too immature.
100 runs in 5 overs for NZ. WOW. Ross Taylor should’ve been gone TWICE but the fool Kamran Akmal missed on one catch and totally dropped another catch. Good job kamran!!! this shouldn’t happen to a team that is trying to win the WC, this happens to teams that are just happy to be at the WC.
Pakistan has been pummeled by New Zealand here. The last 5 overs went for 100 with Akhtar conceding 28 in one over and Razaq 30. Ross Taylor has hit some tremendous sixes. 303 now is a tall order for Pakistan. On a side note Gul was fantastic with speeds approaching 150 ks.
What happened to the great Pakistan bowling attack here? Just goes to show no bowling attack is safe in this world cup if a team can hit 100 runs in 30 balls.
they’re already 13/1. This might just be one of those great psychological blows that makes it very hard for them to cross this total where on other days they’d have a shot. teams chase 320 or 330 quite regularly these days but the way it ended in the first inning it might have taken a lot out of Pakistan.
and the cricinfo piece suggests that with a stronger team to capitalize on Pakistan’s errors early on there would have been even more runs on the board.
They just lost their second wicket but importantly Vettori is off the field with a bruised knee. They will need to make up for his bowling. The asking rate is mounting here.
30/4, it’s over barring an incredible effort by someone here.
this gets back to a debate I was having with JohnnyBrutal the other day. Sure, all bets are off in WC including the ones about Pakistan owning NZ! Aamirsfan proved to be astute on this point.
Misbah though is a good striker when he gets going. They will need a very massive effort from him to have a chance here.
feverbaba, Both Dish and DirecTV have a package for the whole wolrd cup for $150. Very importantly this telecast is available in HD which makes a world of a difference.
they’re now tied with NZ on top of their group. But Aus have only played three matches so far and of course had to tie the points with SL because of the rain. I think I would have given them the edge that day. Sangakkara was batting phenomenally but still they’d lost 3 wickets and getting to a really big total wasn’t that likely. But in any case their next one is again Kenya so they have that in the bag.
The India-SA match should be very interesting on the 12th. SA have already lost to Eng and will try not to lose again. India have to be very careful here.
by the way India is the only team other than Aus to have not lost a match so far. This has been overlooked. Aus of course haven’t even tied with anyone so far (barring the rain that forced them to get that ‘tie’). But that Eng tie still rankles. India should have won that. Specially since this is the only major team they’ve faced so far.
I think India should be ok even if they lose to SA interms of reaching the quarters. I still hope they win. I think with the win over Netherlands tomorrow, India should be through.
Today’s match was over once NZ crossed 250! Sri Lankan pitches overwhelmingly favor the side batting first; it’s not even close — there’s something like an 80/20 split in D/N matches in favor of the side batting first. The wickets too are different from the ones in India. They have low bounce and are designed to aid spin.
So it’s really a contrast in terms of the two groups. Group A teams, namely Australia, Pak, SL & NZ, are playing on altogether different pitches compared to India, SA & England. But as the India-Ireland game suggested, pitches in India are getting baked right now. This was the same Bangalore pitch that produced a run-glut in the India-England, and later, the Eng-Ireland match.
This can only mean one thing: the team which uses its spin options better will have a huge advantage, at least from here on. The QFs will be interesting, as there’s a big chance that teams playing in SL might play in India or Bangladesh, and vice versa.
So if by chance Australia play their Q/F game in India, their bowling will not be as effective. This is because their bowling is heavily dependant on Lee & Tait — both fast bowlers. SA, the side that has displayed the best bowling attack so far, will be at an even bigger advantage in SL! India will be at an advantage playing either in SL or India. Although in SL, the lopsided nature of D/N games means the toss becomes more important than anything else!
“there’s something like an 80/20 split in D/N matches in favor of the side batting first. ”
I should qualify that statement. It assumes that the side batting first has at least 225 runs on board. Obviously, if a side gets bowled out for less than 100, it’s not going to work out the same.
Saket/ Munna- Someone posted a Video of Sidhu’s take on Sachin getting hurt and then subsequently hiiting Akhtar for a boundry in Pakistan ….Is there a video od sachin getting hurt and then hitting him for a four somewhere ??
I remember, quite vividly, Sachin’s debut test match. He was all of 16 then. In that game, Waqar Younis, who was also making his debut at age 19, bowled a snorter that hit Sachin on his nose, and he started bleeding.
After a round with the physio, he came back and hit Waqar for at least a couple of fours and ended up with a half century! Even before that game, I saw him belt Abdul Qadir for 27, in a single over, scoring 50 of 18 balls, in a practice game. I began to worship him then and there!
Both the games were in Pakistan, during the 1989 series. This was India’s tour of Pakistan under Srikant’s captaincy. Imran Khan captained Pakistan during the series, and Manjrekar scored a special double ton in Faislabad, if I recall correctly. Sidhu and Shastri used to open for India, back then.
In those days, it was normal to have helmets without visors on them. That’s why Sachin got injured in the first place. Nowadays it’s unthinkable to play without visors!
Not only Sachin, Srikant & Manjrekar got nasty injuries because of the absence of visors during those days. It used to be really a sick scene to watch batsmen spitting blood on the pitch!
Bradman didn’t even have proper pads & gloves to play against Larwood, in contrast!
yeah Bradman averaged 56 or so in the infamous bodyline series. A great average by any other standards but Bradman’s own. But this wasn’t like the fearsome West Indies attack where one could get some very menacing bouncers and so on. Here the ball was actually aimed at the body! So to face that kind of bowling without contemporary protection and to still average that was pretty remarkable.
Perhaps the most famous example of bloodied nose without visor still remains Vengsarkar against Marshall(at least 3 or 4 times and most famously in 83 WC after which he was rested).
Even in early 90s visors were not so much full proof.I remember a test match in which Walsh broke Prakakar’s nose within visors.
would love to see sachin’s video P.S.. also loved the way Sidhu describes- Sidhu got bowled and as he was coming back and Kapil was walking in Kapil goes- Sardar Ball dikhai nahee deti hai kya …. and then Kapil himself gets clean bowled on the first delivery !! LOL
Saket,it was the 4th match in which sachin was hit by waqar.Infact sachin was out for 15 in the first match,he was being beaten by pace of rank half volleys outside ofstump which even sachin later mentioned.
And the practise match before odi series in which sachin hit qaader was lost by India.India required 4 runs to win in the last over with srikanth and sachin on strike but still.
you open the book and look at the page number 0= out , 123456 were respective runs, 7 was wide , 8 was no ball, 9 was run out.- or something like that. LOL!!
The 80s were favorable to the Indian cricket team. But damn, look at the players we had: Shastri, Madan Lal, Roger Binny, Balvinder Sandhu, Lakshman Shivramkrishnan!!
These guys were decidedly mediocre even by the standards prevalant in the 80s! And yet, we won the WC & the World Series based on their contributions.
I think Harbhajan Singh bowls faster than Ghavri’s quickest deliveries! LOL
Most of these guys came from the metros; there was a strong Bombay lobby, which explains the presence of players like Lalchand Rajput, Raju Kulkarni even late into the 90s. Back in those days, one had to either represent Bombay or play for Delhi to get selected. Kapil Dev was the one notable exception, and nobody could ignore his natural talent!
I actually think Lalchand Rajput, Chandrakant Pandit and Sanjay Manjrekar suffered because they were from Bombay.They could have played a lot more international cricket but got sidelined prematurely.
Manjrekar was in love with his own technique! He destroyed his own career, I think.
Chandrakant Pandit never fulfilled his promise as a batsman-wicket keeper. Perhaps there was some politics in play, because his replacement, Kiran More was not special as a batsman either.
The best wicket keeper, during that period used to be Sadanand Vishwanath, and he in fact played for India during the World Series in Australia. His demise was even quicker than Siva’s, unfortunately.
@ Saket: We won the world cup and the world series with these mediocre players but used to suffer heavy losses to majority of teams in regular series; both test and one days. The West Indies toured India after the 1983 world cup and gave us a spanking with Marshall being unplayable.
Yes, I remember very well. Australia came to India and thrashed us too! Even England under David Gower, beat us 2-1!! Those were some shameful times.
But even then, between ’83 & ’85, in the ODIs at least, India won against all major countries, with the wins in the WC, the World Series and Sharjah (Pakistan bundled out for 87 runs) being the major highlights.
I distinctly remember the England Gower series. Azhar made his debut and hit 2 or 3 centuries back to back on his debut. Neil Foster along with Richard Ellison used to be the front line seam bowlers whereas Pat Pocock used to bowl his off spinners.
Gower was one classy player. His lazy elegance was even more impressive than Azhar’s, simply because he was a leftie. I became a diehard Azhar fan after that series…till 2001!
though Azhar never quite replicated the blaze of glory he arrived in with those three centuries. At his best he was of course a delight to watch specially in 1990 in England. One of those fine wristy players Hyderabad seems to specialize in! But a very large majority of his centuries really came on subcontinental wickets. And specially if you subtract that one good Eng tour in 1990 (he also of course had a century in NZ that year) the overwhelming majority were not scored outside of India/Pak/SL. Perhaps he could have done more as a player but in any case he can never be put up there with Laxman. Ganguly to my mind had a somewhat similar problem as well. This is not really true for Laxman who of course even at home was most prolific against Aus. Now having said that one should perhaps not play the colonial game of lumping every kind of subcontinental pitch together.
Some of these players had gigantic egos. Mohinder Amarnath and Kapid didn’t get along very well. Sidhu packed his bags and came to India, in the middle of an overseas trip, because he was dropped. Manoj Prabhakar was a grade A asshole!
Azhar gave Sachin some dose of Maa Behen when the latter ran him out in NZ!
He took 18 test wickets in his first 3 test innings (6-6-6, in terms of real breakdown) and then next to nothing after. Was it really the devil’s work?
Maninder singh was another good prospect but used to flight the ball a lot and lacked variation. Iqbal Quassim got the better of him in the famous Banglore test on a turning wicket that we lost to Pakistan. It was Gavaskars final test and his 96 was the highlight of the test.
But he was more known for his inability to bat. Later on he batted well but the (in)famous Chennai Tied Test was alwas associated with him when Matthews LBWed him for last wicket.
Satyam, I saw the ’96 WC game between India & WI live in Gwalior. It was a D/N game, and the WI used to have Ambrose & Walsh in their side.
India did well to restrict WI to less than 200 in the first innings. In the 2nd half, when India came on to bat, Ambrose bowled Jadeja & Sidhu, in the same over (the 2nd over, I think) and since I was sitting side on, I saw with my own eyes, the stumps fly at least 25m from their original position! Ambrose was spitting fire that night.
Azhar & Sachin stitched together a partnership, and even though Azhar only scored some 32 odd runs (Sachin scored a match-winning half century), he was the more stylish player in view. Even more stylish than Sachin! The fact that he turned out to be such a rotten character later on, hurt me, personally, quite a lot! For a long long time, he was my hero!
it’s 137/4 right now but again the point stands, it shouldn’t be so hard to get to 189 against Holland. They were clearly just whacking the ball at one point but whatever the strategy you can’t lose so many wickets.
It’s 170/5, they’re not losing this one! So let’s get that out of the way. As for the rest I have been saying it from the first day, the bowling has so far not put up a credible show. As for the batting yes I would consider this a disappointing performance. Now it’s clear that they don’t approach Holland with the mindset that they did Eng when they put up that big score. But the point precisely is that Aus for example are ruthless in these matters. They will bundle out a Holland for 50 if they possibly can and then pummel the bowling as well. So there is something to be said for not having a different mindset in different games beyond the obvious tactical adjustments that are needed against different opponents.
Having said all this pacing is important in such a tournament too. As long as they keep getting their wins I’m not too concerned. The only reason I express pessimism at points is because they’ve played one major opponent so far where they should really have won the game though on the flip side they batted better against them than they did against much weaker teams. So a somewhat underwhelming performance against Holland does not necessarily mean much in other situations. It might be part of a team’s plan or at least mindset to not go fully out against really weak sides. Which is why the Eng performance says much more. Or for that matter Pak’s against NZ yesterday because ‘that’ could not have been part of the plan. Of for that matter Eng/SA where the latter couldn’t even get to 170. But again Aus at their best are like a machine mowing down everything in sight. But most other teams don’t work that way and even Aus couldn’t win every WC playing that way. So there are lots of other factors in play too.
Well, India got it done.
Am glad in a way that Yuvraj and Dhoni are getting tested and coming thru, albeit against the weaker opposition. These two aree vital in the later games. Am less worried about the top four batsmen. These two are more likely to be integral in run chases and more likley to have to play under pressure.
Missed tis match due to a hectic schedule!!
Anyhow, just skimmed thru the scorecard.
In the final summary, doesnt matter much now that india is onto the next round(in all probability)
As has been seen in the previous world cups, the key is to peak at the right time. In the case of indias bowling, its really concern.
But good to see nehra back—how did he actually bowl?
He is good at the death overs!
Bhajji needs a kick on his back side —he is convinced that he is irreaplacable–should be given a scare.
Wont be bothered about much as of now…
hope (and feel ) that dhoni is practical—The team needs to save itself for the next round…
The main thing is to avoid injury to ey players till the next round
i am sachins biggest fan….
cannot emphasise it more…
But as always, i dont mind teasing out the personality of my idols (as in bachchans case)
Why does sachin open in one days but goes down the order in test matches esp on difficult pitches…
I think i know the answer but what is the “official” reason, folks??
that’s simple, he is not an opener. He had to become one in one days because India sorely needed one. It is actually one of the great testaments to his gifts that he could be so prolific in one days playing an opener for so long. As for tests I’m surprised you haven’t considered that some of the greatest batsmen in history played one down or two down. In any case you don’t make some of your best bats openers in tests. That would be wasting a wicket. It’s not about who is greater. It’s about a different toolkit that is required.
Agree with most of that..
“He had to become one in one days because India sorely needed one”—One has to ask gambhir—pooor fellow opens in tests but is pushed down the order in one-days when the fielders are deliciously up??
ambrose was the macgrath of 80′s(or i would say great macgrath took his inspiration from ambrose) … a little more taller but had the ability to land the ball continiouslly on same length time and again with even more pace
and ya yuvraj is now very close to become highest wicket taker by an indian left arm spinner in odi’s
McGrath was a fine bowler but I’d take Ambrose over him any day of the week. Richards once suggested that Ambrose was better than most of the bowlers in those great West Indian batteries because he did it without the same kind of support (Walsh presumably did not cut it for him, Ambrose played half his career with him). Incidentally he debuted in the very late 80s. Most of his career was in the 90s. He has a claim to being considered the greatest pace bowler of his generation.
No I didn’t forget Wasim. I just suggested there was a debate to be had there. Wouldn’t quarrel with anyone who picked Wasim. But wouldn’t quarrel with anyone who picked Ambrose either.
Satyam,i don’t think there is much of a debate there.The closest thing to Wasim in 90s were ambrose,donald and waqar.But the later three had obvious limitations-waqar was anodyne with new ball,amrose needed bouncier tracks and donald needed green pastures.I doubt if any one could fight with Wasim’s flagrant versatility1
Having watched Ambrose uproot stumps and blow them away like mere twigs, on a lifeless Gwalior pitch, I’m more inclined to give Ambrose the edge over Akram. As fond as I am of watching the latter’s picture-perfect bowling action.
The thing with the West Indian greats was, they not only posed a threat to a batsman’s wicket, but also to his life!
abhishrekr—-agree with that about wasim akram…
and note…he did that with diabetes (that too insulin dependent diabetes melitus….lol)
By the way—still havent been able to convince myself of a valid reason to explain to explain the sheer extreme disparity of genuine pacers from india and pakistan…….any ideas welcum!!!!
Alex,infact this has been my biggest grudge, why can’t India produce such fast bowlers.I mean everytime we hear someone possesing express pace such as david johnson,tinu yohanan.munaf etal and nowadays a boy varun aaron from jharkhand but when they arrive at international scene they somehow clock in 130s.
Regarding our sub continental neighbours 92 WC was my first cricket experience and i still vividly remember the way my grandfather would literally abuse Imran(by then a spent force,he would recount his bowling in 83 test series numerous times) and Wasim.Infact he didn’t thought too much of waqar,just a one trick pony bowling his in swinging yorkers with the old ball compared to his 2 other compatriots.Probably i inherited this trait from him as always i wished ah! if only we would have have such a pace attack(its always more easier to connect with pak rather than WI or aussies).
Iffron—-as a rational person , there is no point in “abusing” imran, as u probably know…
And also beofre comparing to aus, WI, one can and should compare with pak…
U hear stupid arguments like vegetarian diet etc whcih is absolutely idiotic…
the nore one thinks of it, the more one does NOT get a valdi explanation.
Comments/ explanantions welcum, folks…..
ya wasim was the best of lot simply because he had the ability to bowl six different deleivries in an over
even waqar in his late part of his career faded and was not the same attacking bowler he was but wasim reinvented himself
cmmon reason is simple these guys where picked from street by imran(so do sohaib by wasim and company) and where directly put in cricket training camps (imran who single handedly owned the rule in 80′s to and 90′s and where picked very young )
in india just to much cricket from junior to ranji level systematically result in fatigue or breakdown though it had now also destroyed most of young pakistani pacers after a brilliant start in last decade simply because of improper guidance
“why lara , waugh , bradman , richards etc never opened in tests”—iffron—but as far as i know–these gentlemen did NOT suddenly open in one days and t20s either!!
Its this selective opening ONLY in one days which has caught my radar!!!
“icidentally he debuted in the very late 80s. Most of his career was in the 90s. He has a claim to being considered the greatest pace bowler of his generation.”
ya and macgrath in 95 or 96
macgrath was totally inspired from him but overall ambrose was the better bowler but macgrath gets more accolades thanks to the better team
“but as far as i know–these gentlemen did NOT suddenly open in one days and t20s either!!”
well mr sachin tendulkar batted at number 4 when sehwag refused to do so in 2007 wc thanks to greg chappel( and accpted by him in press) and result was there to see
lara tried his hand in opening in odi’s but was not sucessful
Dhoni said sometime back in an interview when asked about how he guided Sachin that there was nothing he could possibly say to Sachin that he wasn’t already aware of. I think all those who ‘coach’ Sachin in any sense should follow this sensible dictum! But this is so for any number of great players. Specially once they have a certain experience behind them whatever the situation is they surely understand it. What does one tell Dravid? Or Laxman? On a related note Steve Waugh once said he liked talking to many batsmen about their strengths and weaknesses and he learnt a lot from them. All except Lara and Tendulkar because these guys were such geniuses at it that they couldn’t really talk about it in an objective sense, i.e. forgetting for a while that certain things were possible only for the Laras and Sachins of the world! The English novelist David Mitchell once talked to A S Byatt when he was stumped on the book he was writing at the time (since then published as the Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet) about making the characters and their situations come to life in a historical setting and Byatt’s response which amused Mitchell to no end was “why don’t you make it interesting?”!
“and result was there to see”—wjatever way u look at it, this particular aspect has/ will always irked me about tendulkar.
Why was tendulkar not so successful at no4???
It is more difficult, no doubt at no 4..
there is a different skill set–not that a person of tendulkars capability could not have handled it with time…
The likes of dhoni deserve and need “rest” more often than they get—-tendulkar seems to be the one who has an “immunity” as to which series his highness wishes to skip due to “injury” and whihc one he wishes to “open in”
Having said, tandulkar is a modern epic icon—there is nothing wrong in giving hiim some “concessions” but it is not blasphemous to point ot those “concessions”!!lol
would like sakets views here…
C’mon Alex, Sachin has been if anything over-exposed to one days. On some other teams he would just be playing tests. But here is playing the IPL at his age as well. And this troubles me because specially at that age you are one injury away from ending your career. But there is no one more of a team professional than he is. Amazed to hear you say that.
“Why was tendulkar not so successful at no4???
It is more difficult, no doubt at no 4..”
he is but he is mor sucssful at 4 …
isn’t gambhir a good player of spin infact making him bat at 3 makes much more sense and at present he is just out of touch as he hardly played th last series
gambhir batted best against in wc so far with sachin only against england and even it was evidnt an aging tendulkar was much mor strokeful than gautam
satyam : on coach front … gary is his junior
well he debuted 7 years after sachin and is retired and coachingand that says all
sachin tendulkar himself have much mor greater cricketing sense to know what is better for team
iffron—its not only about gambhir and gary kirsten…tendulkar has been the epic who has stood firm when many gars and gambhirs have come and gone!!
My only plea is why someone like tendulkar needs to resort to this “selective” opening ONLY in one-days not in tests.
I have opened batting in county conditions and knows what tendulkar “knows” about opening with a moving ball!!
Because I think Sachin is sane enough to value tests more than one days! Even in an age where the conversation about cricket and some of its conditions have become debased in some ways no one considers one days to be the equivalent of tests. Yes in terms of the stats one has to look at everything but the true measure of caliber is still the longer format of the game.
As for opening bit he made adjustments for a one day game but judging by your argument he should be willing to play at any position! Who does that? Other than Sobers?! Your question is rather bizarre.
“But here is playing the IPL at his age as well.”—-With due respect, IPL is like a ‘bonanza” for cricketers,…
For anyone who has played cricket at ANY level in ANY country, earning this sort of money for three weeks—–there is only ONE motivation in IPL—so nobody is doing anybody a favor (except oneself) by playing in IPL..
I have personally attended one of the post IPL “parties” and know what is the level of “perks” involved!!!!!!
for a guy who was supposedly worth 200 crores some years ago I doubt that’s the reason. I think it’s really a ‘playing for Bombay’ thing for him more than anything else. Beyond this Sachin is such an addict of the game he’s play every single thing if he could. He sometimes shows up at Bombay clubs and starts playing over there as well!
to each his own alex but sachin opening in odi’s only make the balance of team good
dude he did in s.a in 2003 and even has a pretty good record in england in odi’s at opener
and tell you one thing the last we won the test series in eng in 2007 sachin again played a crucial role in that when in those moving condition rahul dravid failed big time
iffron—-sachin is not only the biggest indian sportsman ever, leave alone cricketer…
Infact many count him amongst the most influential indian in post independence india…
and I agree to that..
He is definitely the BEST one day opener Inida has ever had or will have!
The question is —why is this question of “sacrifice” come when it comes to tests…..
Gavaskar did not score the highest no of runs (b4 10dulkar) in tests due to this “sacrifice”!
If u can stand upto the nw ball in one days and u enjoy the field restrications, why do u send a gambhir b4 u in tests..
U should be consistent like sehwag and open in both!!!!!
Alex I’m amazed you think opening in one days is like opening in tests! Are you serious? If you are an opener you can open in both. Sachin isn’t an opener. He adapted his game for the one day format. Incidentally Sehwag has always felt that he needed to bat in the middle order, certainly in tests but the team couldn’t accommodate him for one reason or another. When he was failing for a while they tried it out and it didn’t make much difference. By the way you’re simply assuming that as long as there’s a good opener the rest of the positions are somehow easier to bat in and everything else falls into place. If that were true India with Gavaskar would be the best side in the world!
Ifrron—a player does not come labelled on his forehead or private parts —-”I AM AN OPENER”
u cannot score tons of runs and centuries (with field restrictions) and then suddenly declare that ” my forehead or private part has no tatoo proclaiming me to be an opener”
I speak from personal experience—-I tried doing this “swap” in a minor county team and this “smartness” was flagged up!!!!
But obviously, the indian tam managemetn has rightly treated tendulkar as a “special” case!!!—lol
anyhow—all this talk is of no import—am happy thsat india has made the next round and thats what matters right now..
Anyhow, whoever has not checked mukul kesavans link on pakistan team needs to read that passage—an absoluely swashbuckling writeup—perhaps one of the most witty that i have ver read—plz revisit…..
The other standout point for india is the decisive ri=ole being pakyed by yuvraj in both the ireland and netherland match.
Note that he did NOT do as well against test playing england..
The worry is that this lacuna will be xposed agaist the bigger teams in the next round…
just watched some “highlights” from ind netherlands match…
By the way—not sure y pathan was sent at no3—nnot that it mattered, but it wasnt a dire situation anyhow–powerplay was taken but what was the need to risk and then ladn onto 90 odd for 4??
Saw a shot by pathan—just “flicked” a ball from the spinner for Six.
Amazing—–it wasnt a pacer where he could use the pace of the ball!!!
it’s about damn time they change the keeper. Kamran is a joke of a cricket player. if they are seriously considering changing they should change it against a team like zimbabwe rather than the aussie’s.
i have played both baseball and cricket. and batting wise…i found cricket batting to be much tougher. bowling wise i think cricket is easier and much more fun, especially when you clean bowl a batter, what a feeling!!!
this is really turning out to be a day for the openers! Would be a blow for SL if they lost another one here. They’ve already lost to Pakistan. Had to tie with Aus because of the rain.
“did ‘johnnybrutal’ get banned or somethin..where was he after pakistan’s loss and india’s win??? hmmm….”—hahahaha aamirsfan!
At the risk of repetition, need to compliment mukul kesavan on his writeup about the theatrics of the pakistan team—no offence—just high on entertainment value.
Should go into the “hall of fame” of any site, if there is one..
Where did sangakaara get that ” multi-faceted” accent from!!!!
Murali throws occasionally…(agree with bishan bedi to an extent)…
Malinga is one of the top3 pacers right now (with dale steyn), HIs action is not only wierd but highly suspect. NOt sure how lankans get away with SO MANY chuckers!!!
Iffron–a good attempt by you to explain the stark historical disparity in the number of genuine pacers from india and pak—Im stilol not convinced of the reasons given…
“cmmon reason is simple these guys where picked from street by imran(so do sohaib by wasim and company) and where directly put in cricket training camps”—I can already see imran/akram roaming the streets (esp late nite) looking for good “deals” in redlight areas!!lol
Iffron–read this–”u cannot score tons of runs and centuries (with field restrictions) and then suddenly declare that ” my forehead or private part has no tatoo proclaiming me to be an opener”
No heavy bats, no short boundaries…he still hit them far and wide! And look at his running between the wickets; need to reiterate: the “ideal” ODI player…
Sachin, in his prime, and Dhoni till date, are the only 2 Indian players who seem to have learnt how to play the ODI game. Literally!
The ODI game isn’t about hitting 6s & 4s. It’s about hard running between the wickets, rotating the strike and biding one’s time till the final assault. This is an inviolate rule that’s always worked, and yet 99% of the batsmen go for “glory” shots, risking their wickets in the process. It looks great when it comes off, but more often than not, it costs the team dear!
I thought the game changer was NewZealand’s unwillingness to play Semis in Australia. They threw one match to Pakistan and everything changed. Inzi just massacred in the small fields of NewZealand.
I meant to say, the one “image” that describes the most outstanding moment in that WC — Jonty Rhodes’ run out changed the way in which everyone looked at fielding from that point onwards.
“The ODI game isn’t about hitting 6s & 4s. It’s about hard running between the wickets, rotating the strike and biding one’s time till the final assault. This is an inviolate rule that’s always worked, and yet 99% of the batsmen go for “glory” shots, risking their wickets in the process. It looks great when it comes off, but more often than not, it costs the team dear!”
1)Saket-absolutely agree with you there–see above.
2)I maybe in a minority but i really enjoyed indias runchase agaist ireland.
People have criticised the lack of “dominance” but i dont really bother. its about peaking at the right time(if there is one eventuallly)
No point in getting 10 wicket wins and then lose in the semifinals like NZ, SA…..
The way dhoni and yuvraaj batted without ego and misconceptions with their heads down on a slow wicket was actually more difficult–Being the captain of the cricket superpower against a minnow team—needs maturity and restraint which both of them showed—what do u feel
3) if u see my poser above about sachin choosing to open in onedays (with field restrictions) but conveniently becuming a “non opener” in tests—what do u feel
I think England lost the match. At one point of time Bangladesh were struggling at 169/8! What followed was a depressing spectacle of pedestrian bowling by James Anderson, England’s star of the Ashes. There were wides galore; England, in fact bowled 23 wides defending 225, effectively making their own score 202!
The English would like to blame it on the dew, but their bowling attack ALSO allowed Ireland to coast home after being 111/5. The same attack, however, defended a score of 171! Overall, England’s bowling attack has been a huge disappointment. The stark contrast with the Ashes exploits is what makes it doubly disappointing.
The Sri Lankan pitches have indeed helped Australian bowlers so far. Their ground fielding makes the bowling look even better. It would be in their interest to ensure that they play their knock-out matches in SL…
“The only predictable team has been Australia….even in the match against Srilanka which was rained out they had the upper hand.”–lol–cumment of the day—pranav chaawal!!
NOt sure i agree with all the hype/pressure and importance to this india-sa team–its always good to win these “prestige” matches to vindicate who is the favorite, but as far as these two teams are concnerenced, the real test beings in the quarter finals and they shouls dave the best for the last…
Interseting info—sehawag has hit the ifrst ball for 4 in all the matches in the wc till now. Did the same to steyn today—Now that is a UNIQUE mindset–an unmatched player-sehwag!
The best wicket keeper, during that period used to be Sadanand Vishwanath, and he in fact played for India during the World Series in Australia. His demise was even quicker than Siva’s, unfortunately.
This is the question I had in the 80s.Sadanand is a wicketkeeper batsman who played a major role in the benson hedges world championship win.
He stumped 3 pakistani batsman including javed minadad in the final.
But later he was suddenly sidelined and kiran more was brought in.chandrakant pandit was there for few matches.But it was kiran more again who was non batsman wicket keeper.India lost many matches because of his inability to bat.
I think its politics.Kiran more is favoured by BCCI.
sivaramakrishnan was a spent forcewithin a year.I think australian batsman in 1986 complained that he was throwing the ball in a 3 day match.He was thrashed by aussies and was finished by 1986.he was the first Indian bowler to thrown the ball I think.
These guys were decidedly mediocre even by the standards prevalant in the 80s! And yet, we won the WC & the World Series based on their contributions.
There is also the other side.Srikanth alone is worth a gilchrist+hayden.Gavaskar,vengsarkar,azhar,shastri,kapil dev.India’s batting was good in 80s.They used to win matches on their batting alone.
Even shastri used to be good against spin.Against paskistan they used to lose every match from 1986 to mid ninties though though.
Pranav–I actually liked your comment about australia and fully agree with it.
E£njoying sehwag-sachin going after the bowlers—Steyn getting quite a stick—enjoying it.
Good to het the morale of their bowlers down!!!
But feel the pitch is easy and indian bowlers will also get similar treatment!
By the way, why has ashwin not got a game yet.Dont think tahir is injured much—Smith is hiding him for the next round!!!(preventing him from exposure)
“Srikant was a very attacking batsman but cannot be talked about in the same breath as Gilchrist and Hayden as he was much less consistent”—Agree Pranav…
To think of it, he was a poor mans sehwag–shared the lack of technical finesse and recklessness but not much more..lol
Also, feel that the batch of 1983 was actually quite a mediocre bunch on paper–They had luck and cohesion–Made the most use of available resources along with an inspirational leader who showed killer instinct!!
BY those standards, the current team is much better on paper–it is upto execution at the right junctures–but again, the bowling HAS to improve!!
hehe thats a good way to describe Srikant: poor mans Sehwag. He was a natural attacking batsman with a great eye but lacked the propensity to generate huge scores.
Yes Pranavv.
By te way, johan botha is a good bowler.
The way steyn and morkel have been manhandled, its quite clear that one needs to take the pace OFF the ball on these ptiches!!
On Twitter, Ian O’Brien caught the carnage at Nagpur perfectly: “Currently sitting in a corner, rocking back and forth, having Indian nightmare. Poor bowlers, it’s not fair.” On a batting pitch, Sachin Tendulkar enthralled with his almost serene aggression, and Virender Sehwag dazzled with his impish strokeplay, as India rattled up 174 by the half-way mark.
Virender Sehwag’s opening assault was a microcosm of his batsmanship: Audacious hits, a few swing and misses, an inner battle to control his adrenalin rush, and then some more audacity. The first ball set the tone: It was an outswinger from Dale Steyn that curved away from the off and middle line but Sehwag swatted it up and over mid-on for a four. He should have been out in the next over when Morne Morkel induced an edge from an on-the-up flash, but Morne Van Wyk, the keeper, simply froze.
It was the beginning of the leather hunt. Sehwag flicked and carved Steyn for more boundaries but he really freed his mind and the body in the sixth over, bowled by Morkel. A skilful on-the-up thump through covers, a screaming straight drive and a thunderous cut helped him collect 13 runs. He even started to slow down at the end of the mandatory Powerplay. He took frequent mental timeouts: he shut his eyes and took deep breaths, almost as if he was trying to curb his racing mind. Curiously, for a batsman who thrives on innovation, he got stuck into a set pattern against the spinners and it brought his downfall. He repeatedly backed away from the leg and tried to hit everything through off. He did pick up a couple of boundaries but fell, edging an attempted cut on to the leg stump against Faf du Plessis.
If Sehwag pumped in the adrenalin, Tendulkar oozed class. Controlled aggression is a term loosely bandied about but there has been rarely a better definition of it than the one provided by Tendulkar today. If you just noticed the strike rate, it would be tempting to say he rolled back the clock and was his young adventurous young self but it was a perfect mix of temperance and aggression. There was not a single shot that looked risky and yet he played all the shots, even a hooked six, a shot that he doesn’t play too often these days. Tendulkar faced just 20 balls in the first ten overs but had raced away to 35 and his fifty came off 33 balls. Yet there was not one manic shot. It was in the eighth over, from Morkel, that he really got going with an awesome thump through covers which was followed by a gorgeous straight drive. Like always, he held his pose even as Morkel was down on the mat. It was a moment that perfectly caught the one-sided battle.
When Steyn fired a bouncer in the 10th over, Tendulkar unfurled a stylish hook to deposit it beyond the backward square-leg boundary. When Jacques Kallis bowled a slower one, Tendulkar glided forward and across to whip the off cutter past mid-on. Unlike Sehwag, Tendulkar played the spinners as per demands of the ball but of course on his own terms. He went down the track to loft over long-on, he drove straight, he played inside-out with the turn and as always, worked the angles.
Even as the onslaught continued, you were left wondering whether Graeme Smith could have done anything different. Perhaps, he could have brought in the spinners earlier – Robin Petersen came in the 12th over with India on 93 for 0. Perhaps he could have turned to Johan Botha sooner rather than waiting until the 17th over. Curiously, he plumped for JP Duminy ahead of Botha but once Botha came in, the run rate started to ease up and started to further slow down as India went into consolidation mode after the fall of Sehwag. India added 37 runs in nine overs as they went from 137 for 0 in 16 overs to 174 by the 25th over.
South Africa fans would be psyching themselves with a lovely coincidence: Five years ago, on the same day, South Africa had chased a record 434 runs against Australia. Who knows what’s in store for us today.
I keep getting back to that ‘Endulkar’ headline after the last WC. That writer has been made to eat his words several times and is probably closer to hanging himself from a fan with each new milestone like this and of course he deserves our assistance!
Think India looked on course for 380 plus at one point.
With just one wicket down, not sure why the pace got so slow.
wiht indias obsession with milestones–
Note how the pace dropped between over 31 and 36–after tendulkars century and gambhirs half century—” the match resumed”!
india has played v well today (till now) and if we were to nit-pick—Dont think an innings should be held hostage to personal milestones to THIS extent!!
hope they keep the momentum going.. would be a shame if they didn’t get to a big total after the way the first three batsmen have played. there really should be 350 here..
pathan gone—Thats the problem with taking the “batting powerplay”
The batsman gets forced to loft over the top for a big shot every ball when a “normal” shot would have sufficed.
Think Dhoni needs to bring some sanity and go for 3-4 singles/twos in an over with a boundary or two to aim for 8-9 an over for the next 3 overs WITHOUT losing another wicket!! No more attempted sixes for the next 2-3 overs plz!
yeah it’s terribly disappointing, this always happens, India look to be on course for a really big score and then lose the plot. Yuvraj is now out. It’s ridiculous the way they’ve folded.
Times like this reinforce how cricket is a game that is widely followed but poorly understood. Scores above 370-380 are rare s it is hard if not impossible to maintain this momentum and that is why it is awlays good to not lose wickets in the middle overs. Now, with tthree quick wickets, India is in a bit of hole. Wise thing would be to bat wisely and not aim for the sky.
Again if India do put up 340 plus, inspite of India’s indifferent bowling, it will not be an easy run chase. After a good start ,everyone hopes for the moon but we know it rarely works out that way. Smart play is what it takes and in the end the SRT-Gambhir stand might end up being India’s saviour.
370-380 is always a very unlikely score but I was hoping they’d do 350 or at least match the score against Eng. Do agree at this point that it’s better to play sensibly and get to the highest score they can as opposed to trying anything more adventurous here. They’ve lost all the big hitters.. oops Kohli out as I type this.. what a meltdown!
Kohli also gone after yuvraaj.—5 wickets for 19 runs!!
Dhoni should do a relaity chekc now and aim for 330 now.ANything more should be a bonus. Games CAN be won by 330!!
The headline should be—”Batting powerplay does it for SA against india”
Things got haywire NOT due to any of indias batsmen OR pitch OR SA Bowlers>
The culprit was taking the batting powerplay.
The batsmen gets “obliged” to go over the innner ring and lofts the ball even when there is a four to be hit along the ground or there can be multiple 2s or 3 s for the taking!
There is nothing worng for aiming high though since almost every opposition (leave alone SA) can score 300 plus against the indian bowling attack right now.
just a complete disaster.. they were 267/1 and they made 296. the only positive now is that you’d rather have SA chase than Aus! But still this is not a challenging total at all. Unless the bowling truly comes through today.
“Remarkable”–icnredible stuff.
No point in commenting.
Anyhow–on a positive note–300 is not a v easy target–an odd ball does stop and come to the ball!
Good comeback from dale steyn after the intial mauling!
but—–Lets not count india out yet!
India did poorly on the powerplay even against Eng losing 7 wickets for 33 runs but here it was even worse. So I might agree with you that India should just do things the old-fashioned way!
Not counting them out but this sort of meltdown is inexcusable.
Inexcusable batting performance after powerplay. Really should have got in excess of 340. If the top 3 score 250, then the next 7 should be able to muster up 100 on their worst days!!
Very interesting turn of events.
First and foremost, this underlines how difficult it is being a Gavaskar or a Tendulkar in this country. If India loses, people will complain Sachin did not win the game for them and this century wont be considered a ‘match-winning’ performance. What they will fail to appreciate is that only he prevented an ignominy of a total like 130-140. Coz with a partial exception of Sehwag and Gambhir, no one else showed up today.
And ,that is why it was so important for him to hang arund when he was a little tired on the middle and not lose his wicket. Which is what needs to be appreciated isntead of casting juvenile aspersions about milestones.
He set it up very well and when he left the remaining nine had just to last 10 0vers, get a hundred odd runs with eight wickets. Sadly, the fu**ers that followed couldnt even manage that.
Still, it should be interesting. The wicket is not playing as well and the ball is no longer coming on to the bat as it did earlier on. Or may be our later batting made it seem that way! The third seamer might prove to be crucial today.
And, lets give SA the credit they deserved. Were very professional in face of a daunting start, effectively slowed down the game. Botha and Steyn bowled very well. I look forward to an engaging second half.
Agree totally. Sehwag, Sachin, Gambhir set this match up and the rest were not upto the task of finishing the innings off. Its not much to ask the likes of Dhoni, Kohli, Yuvraj and Pathan to knock the ball around for 10 overs and to get 60 runs minimum. With their ability, and their instincts in 20-20 too, 10 an over is very much achievable.
JUST because sachin and sehwag gave such a blistering start, giving visions and possibilities of 360 plus, does not mean that 300 is a below par total!
Dont think this should be a\n easy task for SA-definitely easily achievable but someone from SAs top six does have to match sachins innings. At the moment, amla/kallis seem to be batting sensibly.
But watch the space!
By hte way, both nehra and munaf are bowling reasonably wicket to wicket which is a good sign in a match which is far from do -or- die for india!
Alex, it’s not just about the 296 but the way in which they got there from 270! If they had been batting slow from the very beginning that would be a different thing.
Slow bowlers like pathan are doing well on these pitches.
With sachin it is understandable, but y the heck has sehwag stopped bowling (or being used as a bolwer by dhoni)–he was a reasonable off break tidy bowler.
There was also talk of replacing gambhir with raina—since the latter is an ok bowler, better fielder but the former just about saved his place today, it seems..
“I don’t agree that they don’t deserve to win the match when SA have not even finished batting!!!”—agree jayshah.
When someone like pathan comes in after a great start bang into the batting powerplay, there is immense presssure to deliver sixes from the word go.
IN this case, both sachin and gambhir got out in quick succession and hence two new batsmen on the crease together expected to hit sixes in the powerplay, against a “back from mauling” steyn.
Not to support this poor collapse, but lets not get too carried away to the other extreme!
SA are currently playing a very traditional one day game with the 100 coming up in 22 overs or so. If they keep going like this there is still a chance to get them towards the end when they have to start hitting out. Because they will have to loosen up at some point. Once upon a time the 100 would come up around the 22-25 over point and people would start hitting out only with the 40th over but then in that sort of situation even a 250 was not very common. Given that they are batting slow if India can get a wicket or two here in the next 5-10 overs it would put pressure on them.
India has bowled better than in the earlier matches of this wc till now..
Think SA are perhaps leaving it till too late. I have a a feeling that even 300 will need some taking now..
Bhajji needs to spin on his own rather than relying on the rough patches of the pitch!!he is after all the “premier” indian spinner.
IN the earlier comment—as for aiming “too high”—at 263 for 1 with more than 12 overs left—if u dont aim high in this situation–when will u ?? one may never cross 350 against a quality team. And knowing the fact that your 334 againstg england wasnt enuf!!!
last over to a spinner is extremely risky in this situation. A fast bowler can at least produce some yorkers and bouncers. Spinner does not have those options.
yes a spinner is normally not used but Harbhajan had just produced a clutch over. and Nehra is always one of those pace bowlers who seems eminently hittable in these situations.
nehra, munaf, chawla…..watch the body language of these guys – pathetic….these guys don’t deserve a birth in ranji teams also….what are they doing here? and 9 wickets in 29 runs after that spectacular show?????? what a shame! world knows now that Indian bowling is ZERO – no. 8,9,10,11 are hitting Indian bowlers so freely….
I see where you are coming from but it is still an important match and Indian team has to be able to believe in itself and winning helps that.
Hard to have a spinner bowl the final over but Harbhajan should have bowled the penultimate over and Zaheer the last one. It is certainly poor form to have your most important bowler left with an over he could have bowled. More so in such a tight game.
yes that’s the other thing, they should have used Nehra earlier so that even if he had got smacked around in the same way Zaheer or Harbhajan might have been able to better defend things.
This is now the 3rd time India has given 280+ to the chasing team in this world cup….and with this loss, it is now painfully obvious that batsmen need to pile up 350 in every match for india to win.
1) Im in a minority here but wont get over critical of india today
2) The only session of the match that india lost was the last 10 overs of their batting (obviously it was extremely pathetic batting). BUt the rest of the match they weren,’t that bad.
3) INfact the batting start was the best in this tournament so far and may stay like that till the end
4)Easy to criticise dhoni about giving the ball to nehra in the end retrospectively
Spinners are easier to slog for some tailenders and there is a reason why conventionally they are not given the end over.
5) Im a believer in the “law of averages”—Now have hope for them in the next round(where they will need luck.
Its better to get a few knocks in the intial rounds than later on…
6) the fact that india nearly defended a sub 300 target against one of the title favorites showed that their bowling was improved.
The problem is that I dont think that this sort of opening stand will be repeated again..Just watched ndtv however—interesting point by Jadeja–over 17 to 39—indian scoring was done at less than 5 an over without a single wicket lost–Obviously this is a double -edged sword since one can argue that this “slow scoring” is what took the team to 300 and made a match of it!
The match was worth watching because of the unpredictability during the last 2 overs. It could have turned any way. Luck has favoured SA. I dont like Dhoni bashing which may put too much pressure. Let them play a natural game. Sometimes that also works. A big total of more than 360 runs may be the answer for a definite win.
munaf and nenra shared 130 runs between them and even pathetic is their body language
ashwin, shreeshant or even spin of raina can’t do worst than that
if harbahajan would have bowled last over we still would have won and some say dhoni is a better captain than ganguly who did it all and built a weak team to top team
Dont want Sreeshant who will create more problems, headaches and useless entertainment. He can join some circus or parliament. Even circus needs lots of discipline.
Providing India beat West Indies then this match was useful for India. Munaf and nehra are not death over bowlers particularly last few overs. Nehra can bowl yorkers but it took him 2 bowls before he bowled a yorker.. Not much IQ being used..It was Indias best bowling performance but they need to find the right combination..No praveen Kumar is hurting India a little now
Hopefully they can beat West Indies and have momentum before the Quarter Finals..You see Sachin does so much but India cant even win sometimes despite his efforts ..that can be sad
At the end of the day, SA played the better and more intelligent cricket! They were hammered in the first 15 overs but they then took charge after that. The wicket definitely started to deteriorate as the match wore on so that’s why i’m all the more pleased at this victory. Well done South Africa!
@Aby I disagree SA played the better cricket.. You must have been watching a different match. For 70 overs of the match India were in control. What cost India was the final 12 overs of thier innings and the last 3 overs of SA innings.. Mainly Munafs over and Nehras
From going at over 8 runs to the over in the first 15 overs and when the spinners came on….they brought the run rate down, especially with Botha! Considering at one stage it looked like it was another 438 match! India didn’t keep that momentum going…and when sachin went out…it was like india didn’t know what to do! They came out trying to blast everything and underestimating the SA bowlers! Surely the pitch had started to turn a bit….which is why SA played it cautiously when they started! The big point here is that SA held its own…this was the biggest game of the first round….it’s not an easy task playing india on its home turf…! The difference is we weren’t the chokers this time! You can blame it on nehra and munaf…for me, SA were the better and team on the day! SA may get knocked out the tournament and that is always a probability with them but what they did yesterday was a test of character! Yes, it was close…but that was the test…they didn’t choke!!!!
Here’s my reading of it.. India dominated for the first 40 overs or so. Then SA totally for the next 10. SA started out sensibly but they were also playing a traditional one day game which is a bit risky in present day circumstances. But they seemed to be on course before they lost some important wickets. Nonetheless in the last 10 they played sensibly. Having said that the Indians did put them under a great deal of pressure at this point and I think anytime you have to depend on Peterson whacking the ball in the final over after all your major bats have departed it cannot be said that this is an optimal situation for a team. Not to take any credit away from the S Africans at all. They held it together when it really mattered, the Indians did not. In fact the S Africans first prevented India from getting to a massive total so in each case they got the better of the Indians in the last 10 overs. But I wouldn’t say they were the better team throughout. Ultimately it came down to a few balls. Anyone’s game but yes the Indians should have won this. In any case a good win for S Africa because they certainly dispelled the ‘choker’ bit yesterday. Can’t take any credit away from them by any means.
On another note we see Aus today scoring 324 against Kenya. The latter are already 35/2 so they’ll get humiliated but this is less than the 358 NZ put up against Can today, also less than India’s 338 against Eng. So surprising things happen in the game.
Agree with this assessment completely. Specifically why I am not so worried by the loss. Indeed like Rajen said you want to build confidence etc but the loss was not an emphatic one and more than anything, SA just won the important crunch points in the match.
What I would say about India is they need to be clinical and have the killer instinct when they have their opposition at their peril. At 267-1 you’ve just got to super sadistic and bat the opposition out of the game. The Great Australian sides did this. They did it to India in a World Cup final.
I don’t really think SA have this killer instinct, but for them this win was more crucial. When you lose many big matches in world cups that are close and continue to do so, it really will affect your confidence in crunch situations. To win in a close match will help them more. India have been in these situations and are use to winning or losing…SA tend to lose, but now they have won one, they will benefit hugely.
I’m a bit disappointed that MS Dhoni does not bat more often like he use to. This dib-dab, 1 and 2′s Dhoni is not really a requirement all the time. When you got Gambhir/Kohli he can quite easily play this kind of role, maybe even Tendulkar, I think Dhoni should just be more confident in his ability to hit the ball cleanly for 4′s and 6′s. Otherwise, drop Gambhir and bring in Raina and then Dhoni can play this role.
Bollywood stars, including Abhishek Bachchan and Bipasha Basu were on Saturday seen cheering the Indian cricket team during match against South Africa at the Vidarbha Cricket Association Stadium at Jamtha in Nagpur.
Clad in a white shirt and blue jeans, Abhishek was seen holding the national flag along with Bipasha, dressed in blue, and screaming “Come on, India” at the stadium.
in a lighter vein……abhi not only gives disastrous movies, but his very presence at the ground saw indian batting disaster (9 wickets in 29 runs) and then last few overs they bowled…..abhi-effect? i see satyam running after my life
Well maybe Indias bowling isnt as bad as everyone thoughts..Todays match at Banglore..Australias supposedly superior bowling bowling outfit didnt exacttly blast kenya away at Benglaguru..I think that should put things in perspective that Bengaguru is very flat..Hopefully one expects as the matches goes on that Indias bowlers can get more out of the pitches as the pitches become more worn
Stop deluding yourself. Munaf Patel and Nehra are pansies and will not turn into testosterone-driven, aggressive fast bowlers with pinpoint accuracy anytime soon. Rajen often castigates SRK fans as being panty lovers; Well, in Nehra & Munaf, between the two, there are no balls!
I’m amazed to read the comments here and everywhere else. The captain rebukes the batsmen but doesn’t say a word about the bowlers. The fielding sucks, the bowling sucks donkey’s balls and you guys expect to win the World Cup?
Frankly, I want India to be ousted from the WC as soon as possible. These pansies don’t deserve to play with a billion people’s emotions anymore. Get kicked out and bring in the changes. Dhoni out as captain, Nehra & Munaf sent to Tihar jail worrying about their backside. Literally!
Satyam, it’s not as if I’m gutted so much as to remove all logic and reason from my mind. It’s what I see that’s so troublesome!
The captain has so far made one blunder after another. And after failing to defend 296 (It’s f****g 4 runs less than 300; most “good” teams will defend that total 99% of the time), he went after his batsmen! Dude, get a grip. No team can score 350+ in every game. Your crappy bowlers failed to defend 338 against a highly volatile English side, your own captaincy is ultra-defensive, because of which wickets can only be taken if the opposing team gifts them to the Munafs and Nehras of this world, who are such pathetic fielders AND crappy bowlers to boot.
I mean bowling length at the death isn’t too much removed from zipping your pants down, bending and with one swift stroke, slapping your own ass and proclaiming, “Tohfa kabool Karo Jahapanah!”
The symptoms were always there for everyone to see! And no one apart from Dhoni can be blamed for thinking up this great strategy of going with 4 bowlers (1.5 in reality; 1 for Zaheer & 0.5 for Harbhajan!) and 7 batsmen.
Iss team ko ab davaa ki nahin…dua ki zaroorat hai!! It’s too late for them in any case…
you certainly make a very strong (and strongly entertaining!) case and it is indeed troubling to come up with such scores twice and not be able to defend them.
“nd no one apart from Dhoni can be blamed for thinking up this great strategy of going with 4 bowlers ”
disagree…India have gone this way for a number of years. Look at the team in the 2003 WC. They had Mongia coming in at 7 and he is no better bowler than Pathan. Dhoni has been inept in some ways, but the fact is India are #2 in ODI rankings and #1 in test rankings under his captaincy. I would urge him personally to play more attacking when he has Tendulkar, Gambhir and Kohli who could all play sheet anchor type roles.
The one day ODI game has changed. Teams know if they have 20 overs left and 8 wickets in hand they can hit another 150 runs just like in 20-20 cricket.
Jay, in 2003, Nehra produced a spell of 6 for 23, bowling at speeds close to 150 Kmph! Those days are long gone and so are the bowler friendly tracks of South Africa.
Also, in 2003, Srinath was in great form. Zaheer too clicked quite well. What this means is, India at least had 4 bowlers in their side. Currently, no one can call Nehra & Munaf proper “bowlers.” Both go for more than 60 runs in 10 overs without taking wickets. Tendulkar, given a chance, will produce better results than these two.
The less said about their fielding (Zaheer too is an extremely poor fielder), the better it is. In fact, apart from Kohli & Raina, there are no good fielders in this side. With serious handicaps in 2 out of 3 departments, it’s foolish to expect miracles out of your batsmen, every single time.
The question should be what 5th bowler “could” genuinely hand on heart do a better job than Pathan/Yuvraj? India just don’t have back-up to Harbhajan and Zaheer. Any of their other bowlers are going to get karted whether they are part timers or genuine bowlers.
EG first match vs Bangladesh
Shreesanth went for 53 off 5 overs
Pathan and Yuvraj went for 91 off 15 overs
second match vs England
Patel went for 70 off 10 overs
Khan went for 71 off 10 overs
Pathan and Yuvraj went for 67 off 10 overs
third match vs Ireland
Chawla went for 56 off 7 overs
Yuvraj and Pathan went for 63 off 17 overs
fourth match vs holland
Chawla went for 47 off 10 overs
Yuvraj and Pathan went for 60 off 15 overs
fifth match vs SA
Nehra went for 65 off 8.4 overs
Pathan and Yuvraj went for 67 off 12 overs
Not saying that Pathan and Yuvraj are better but really in every match if one of your front line bowlers or more in some cases are giving more runs away than these 2 as a combination 5th bowler, what use is it bringing in a 5th bowler? They are all pretty inconsistent. Sure the front line bowlers bowl up front or at the death and Pathan/Yuvraj used more during the middle of the game which itself lends itself to less risk. But India simply don’t have a good choice in the back-up.
Nehra had a great game against England, but I remember that match being played under lights and the ball was doing all sorts.
Every bowling attack has been put to the sword. Kenya have scored 270 odd against the Aussies! Kevin O Brien has smacked a 50 ball 100. So really sure a good bowling attack can make a difference, but I would actually agree with Dhoni to some extent that when your 267-1 you should not be bowled out for 296 odd! But he was to blame on that score, cos really his batting needs to step up too.
Anyway, India just have to think simply. Get to the quarters and win 3 straight matches. They can do that. It’s not beyond them.
The commentators are talking about the possiblity of Pak – India QF and I just don’t see how it could happen. If Pakistan wins today and loses to Aus, they will have 8 points. Let’s say SL beats NZ. Pak will finish 4th in the group because their net RR will most def. be lower then NZ. In group B, SA is almost certain to finish on top. If India beats WI, they will be 2nd which means they will play NZ in the QF while Pakistan will play SA.
but India’s ‘easiest’ route to the Semis is thru NZ. As much as they have dominated Pakistan in the WC, it will still be a very tough match for either side.
true though they lost in 1983 and still don’t have a perfect record against NZ (this was their second loss). Having said that I don’t seriously believe in this stuff even if it’s nice to have history on your side.
If Pakistan were to play WI at any point during this WC, who would you favor? Most would say Pakistan but if you go by the WC, Pakistan have won exactly one match against them in all of the world cups (that too was a miracle where Abdul Qadir scored 10 off the last 3 balls against Courtney Walsh in 1987 group game! )
I would easily pick Pakistan because barring something unusual they’d win. But then the WI isn’t a normal scenario because this team has just become incredibly weak over many years now. There’s been a complete collapse in their local cricket structure. The way they’ve played at many points over the last decade they wouldn’t have gained test status playing like that! But with most other teams though they might be strong or weak in a particular tournament they still live upto a certain standard.
Pakistan certainly seem motivated in a special way when they play against India. Once this was true for the latter too but I get the sense now (for some time) that India has moved on. Pakistan might still beat them many times but the India-Aus encounter just possesses a prestige in the cricket world today that is not easily matched and I think increasingly a newer generation of Indians look upto this. But also there is perhaps less antagonism within this same generation on either side of the divide (I’d say at least partly because India’s cultural colonization is quite complete) and so the match-ups aren’t quite ‘war’ as they once used to be. I think the Pakistan team still has more invested in this encounter though at the same time many of their players also express far more affection for their Indian counterparts than was ever the case before. So there’s some ambivalence here. In any case the point I was trying to get at is that motivation is good in these situations but sometimes Pakistan lose the plot because the history perhaps weighs down too heavily on them. Recall Aamir Sohail and Saeed Anwar in Bangalore going completely berserk. Not saying one shouldn’t blast away when one can but Aamir Sohail at points looked ready to explode with the adrenaline!
I don’t think India has really ‘moved on’ from the rivalary. Sure India Australia is huge these days but India still gets a kick out of beating Pakistan. Just watch Harbhajan Singh’s reaction in last year’s Asia Cup match when he hit the 6 off Aamir to wint the match. Yes the pure ‘hatred’ is gone from the 80′s and 90′s between the two teams but there is nothing bigger at world stage then India – Pakistan.
I disagree that India-Pakistan is the biggest thing in international cricket anymore. I think India-Aus have been this for quite sometime. By the way I didn’t mean to suggest there was no rivalry anymore. Just that when you;re thinking of beating Aus all the time your focus tends to shift a bit. This is not the 80s where beating the subcontinental neighbor defined one’s horizon.
I still think India-Pakistan is the biggest rivalry. Largely, due to extra -terrestrial interest ( read Dubai etc). The amount of betting is tremendous and several times the Super Bowl. But, amongst genuine cricket fans, yes there are more interesting rivalries.
This Indian side is definitely weaker than the one that reached the 2003 WC finals. In 2003 we still had pretty much the same batting with Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraj etc but Nehra and Zahir used to consistently bowl in the 140′s and Bhajji was a better bowler than. Our biggest problem is the fact that our front line pace bowlers lack speed and the ability to bowl bone crunching yorkers with the result that even tailenders fancy their chances at hitting sixes off the Munaf’s and Nehras of this world. Look how Umar Gul and Dale Steyn bowl to the taileneders. Umar Gul btw is consistently bowling in the high 140′s with 150 as his top speed.
I personally don’t think pure speed stops the runs very much these days. Pakistani bowlers tend to be quite erratic in this sense though at their best they’re obviously superb (and Umar Gul is a much more disciplined bowler now than he used to be). Zaheer is overall a better bowler now than he was then. Note how the other day he still delivered some clutch overs at the end. Agreed Harbhajan is definitely at the fag end though again he was quite effective in a crunch-time deal the other day. I don’t disagree on the overall point though that the Indian bowling is ultimately weak. No question about it. I just think that on many of these graveyard pitches even the best bowlers can be made to look very mortal. Consider Shoaib Akhtar in the NZ match getting hit for 28 runs at the end. These days the fear factor is just absent. From the opener to the tailender everyone hits out at everything in sight.
What I want to see is India chasing a 300 plus target and how they do with it. So far all they have batted first in all the high scoring matches…would love to see how they chase.
Yes. Zaheer and Bhajji bowled some clutch overs but Nehra and Munaf gave it away. In contrast the Indian tailenders didnt stand a chance against Steyn yorkers and Bhajji and Munaf had their woodwork rearranged. Also Bhajji had real confidence he should have insisted on bowling the last over…..have a feeling he was probably relieved that Nehra was given the task. Dont know what Dhoni was thinking….you live and die by your best man…..Zaheer should have been bowling the last over and not the penultimate over.
The Aussies are weaker than the 2003 side that had McGrath, Hayden and Gilchrist but nevertheless look like the strongest in this world cup. Though they gave away a lot of runs to Kenya.
The bottomline of all this permutation and combination is —-that once a team reaches the quarter final, EVERY team is THREE wins away from the cup!
Consistency, past records, “net run rate”, statisitics and “form” all go to the dustbin!
Out of the “main” test playing nations, one can (with hesitiation) take NZ and WI out for the cup stakes.
This is quite an open cup and barring Aus, there is no clear favorite (even aus is not a clear favorite)
Infact, i wont bother about any of these matches before QF as long as a team reaches the next round!
Indian team has a tendency to get carried away with the hype and adulation around them.
Had they won against SA, one could have imagined the likes of yuvraaj et al going into a celebration overdrive.
And in real terms, that victory would not have helped them for the next round in ANY way.
Now atleast there would be some “soul searching” for all its worth!
There is NO doubt at all that unless the indian bowling turns a “new leaf” in the next round, it is unlikely their bowlers can restrict an opposion for three straight matches..
Out of all, Aus seems least likely to underperform markedly in a match and that makes them the logical favorite…
On the contrary, I think South Africa has, by far, the best bowling line up in this WC. Steyn, Morkel, Botha, Petersen & Imran Tahir. That’s discounting Kallis, who can pick up a wicket or two as well.
They also have Dabur Amla (sorry, coudln’t resist!), De Villiers in the form of their lives. Smith is a has been, but Kallis will only get better, if past history is to be believed. Duminy is inconsistent and the rest (Du Plessis, Van Wyke are inexperienced) can go either way. Still, they need to play sensibly and with the kind of bowling they have, they won’t be chasing too much agaisnt the better sides.
Their fielding has always been the best, so in my eyes, they are the favorites.
Plus, after many years, perhaps eons, Smith is displaying some tactical nous. Opening the bowling against England with Peterson and against the WI, with Botha. Both moves worked out great for his team. Imran Tahir has had a great WC debut and with the pitches drying up further, there’s all the more reason to believe he’s going to improve further, if that’s possible!
“Imran Tahir has had a great WC debut and with the pitches drying up further, there’s all the more reason to believe he’s going to improve further, if that’s possible!”—I think tahir is being held back tactically not due to injury.
Most decent spinners take some time and exposure to get “figured”.
Remember bhajjis first aussie series or sivaramakrishanan or ajantha mendis!!
Graemem smith is trying to use tahir as a *surprise weapon”! By the way, find imran tahirs and malingas hair a bit hilarious!!
Thats what you call “bias”–lol
Anyhow, would like india to try–some tings against WI –provided they are sure of the next round.
wtf–is india sure of the next round if they lose to WI or not–still unclear??
a)changing gambhir for raina—better fielder, bowling option, can score quicker
b)Ashwin if a second spinner is needed
c) dhoni has to improve his field placings. normally he is good but here–
1) what is the leg slip doing for harbhajan when he is hardly spinning the ball
2)why are some fielders rarely seen in the bowlin innings–like gambhir, tendulkar, sehwag—this prves that their placement is wrong.
You see more of munaf, zaheer, et al who should be relatively hidden..
Agree with a) and b) should have been tried out already.
Raina has a superb record on Indian pitches. Gambhir consumes too many balls. When your betting at 8.5 per over you don’t send in Gambhir!
Gambhir is fine. Don’t think he should be dropped after scoring close to a run-a-ball. I’d keep Yusuf Pathan out to accomodate Raina, if Yuvraaj has to be kept in the side.
Ashwin is a must, from here on. Harbhajan will NOT pick more than a wicket or two, given the way he bowls in the ODIs. I’d pick Sreesanth instead of Munah or Zaheer. With Sree, his nautanki apart, at least there’s a chance of getting some early wickets. Zaheer, Sreesanth, Ashwin, Harbhajan — that’s still only 3 bowlers in total (0.5 for both Sreesanth & Harbhajan), but it’s still better than 1.5!
And Dhoni, who has so far displayed the most defensive captaincy in the history of all world cups (here’s a thought: when did any team win any major tournament by being ultra-defensive?), needs to attack more. Stop the singles in the 30 yard circle. Put more men in. Incite the opposing batsmen to go against the spin and attack, because the singles are difficult to come by. Failure to do so will only make tailenders like Robin Peterson look like giant slayers, which is what happened against SA. Batting against India, no batsman, not even a tailender feels any sort of pressure. Both the captain, and the bowling attack are to blame for that!
There are bad players, average players, good players and then match winners!
On indian pitches —India has the following matchwinners—Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraaj and (yes) Pathan—Cannot drop the last two!
Note that all are batsmen and thats why the bowling is in such state.
Saw one innings by pathan against SA this year which india lost—after that, will not drop him, period!!
Good -Zaheer, Bhajji, Dhoni
Rest are all average to poor (and droppable)!!!!
you do have a point on Dhoni being far too defensive and this might be a bigger problem than anything else.
On the bowling I’ll say this — of the 1983 Indian team with those bowlers could humble the mighty Windies twice in the same tournament (of course it’s easy to see from one angle how it required precisely those very bowlers to unhinge those great stroke players!) anything’s possible! Plus also a lot of times teams get hot in the second half of a WC. All said and done this Indian team has been near the top of the rankings. So it might be a question of getting the chemistry right once more. Not that I disagree necessarily with everything else you’ve said and again Dhoni’s captaincy might be the most troubling factor at this point.
why is tendulkar in third man?
to keep all “nefarious” influences as far as possible.\In one over saw dhoni with kohli in the slips—the only decent fielder in the slips??
when sachin and some others could have sufficed..
Also the team managment need to investigate the decision to give nehra the last over( although i dont support criticising dhoni for that decision)–
Not sure how many were actually true, but analysed as folllows from the body language–
a) bhajji did not appear particularly keen on bowling the last over either—did he refuse?
b) Zaheer came to offer some advice before the last over to nehra but the latter just shoved the former away… There was SOME politics happening!!
The entire Banladesh, up until a few days ago, was probably cursing West Indies because the way they humiliated BD. Now the entire BD will be praying for WI to beat England…oh how things turn That top spot in Group A now means a lot because every team will want to play BD in the QF.
There is still an outside chance that India do not make the quarter finals; three things need to happen for this: Bangladesh need to beat SA and they go through with 8 points; SA having beaten the Irish (already assuming that) also go through with 8 points. England than beat the west indies and get 7 points and in the final game west indies beat India getting to 8 points and getting through and India tying England for the fourth spot with 7 points which will be decided by net run rate. This is indeed an unlikely scenario with SA not likely to lose to Bangladesh but in order to put things beyond doubt India should just defeat West Indies to put things beyond doubt.
for the betterment of the tournament…india need to go to the QF. it will be a crappy WC if we have WI, Bangladesh, SA and England in the QF. I think as solid as Bangladesh have played…they will get trounced by whatever team they face in the QF. I think the final 4 in both groups will be:
From the little I have seen of them, even dockrell of Ireland and Botha of sa look better than the curren indian spinners– for all the talk of “home advantage”.
Think india needs to bring in raina as I said before– better fielder, good runner, bowling option and good finisher.
It will not be easy but gambhir may have to go. I know he did well against sa but he doesn’t fit v well rite now that sachin and kohli are also there.
Ashwin will def be in the next match.
I would be tempted to try Sreesanth in place of nehra.
Pathan needs to be cautioned a bit to use his undoubted explosive talent a bit more sensibly.
Feel that irfan Pathan was a good versatile option when he used to play
well. Probably there were other issues and he seemed to have been forced out of the team and his confidence!!
To give credit where it is due– the batting masterclass given by sachin and sehwag against SA was truly incredible and has been lost in the ensuing noose about indias collapse and defeat.
This was against the arguably best bowling and fielding in the world currently. The sheer savagery on display ESP the way steyn was raped was incredible!!
Also what was noticeable how sachin appeared to be doing the same with MUCH less risky shots than sehwag— and for all those debaters, therein lies the difference.
Heard that after getting out sachin was angry. Bcos he could not get a vacant shower room!!
The procession of batters getting out were taking the showers up before sachin who then protested by not having a shower!!!!
Not sure why someone who survived for five balls needs a shower??? Was sachins question???
yeah at one point they were 160/5. We all criticize India on certain grounds and rightly so but SA have been the most wobbly major team in the WC so far. And of course they have a history of doing this in the big ones. Not sure what happens to them but somehow they’re always tentative in the WC. And actually the lower middle order or tail end has been saving them. Happened today and the other day against India.
Satyam, you ignore the other more obvious point — No team apart from India has been able to score even 250 against South Africa! They have the best bowling attack in the world. The Windies in the 80s did NOT need scores of 250 every day. Their pace quartet was good enough to defend 200, every single time.
And more importantly, in all 5 games that SA have played, they’ve bowled out the opposition. Every single time. Now it’s possible for them to lose in the Quarterfinals, as the ODI format can be unjust to very strong teams (SA were asked to score 22 of 1 ball after a rain interruption in ’92, when the original ask was 22 of 13! Definitely not a choke!), but this team can win everything in sight based on its bowling and fielding alone!
If one goes by logic and law of averages, SA is the ONE test playing nation that deserves to win the WC but has NEVER won it.
(NZ, Eng are not good enuf for winning the cup)
So in a way, SA are “due” to win this one.
But by past experience, I know that in the knockout stages, a different game starts—nerves and luck play strange games.
ANyhow, like the tactical move of SA to hold tahir back
for eg what is ajanta mendis now? he has been figured out—but he gave even the best palyers of spin( india0 quite a tough time—By the time he was figured out, india lost to SL in a championship and a series!
Good timing by SA.
Somehow, feel that teams who have peaked before the knockput have a probelm to last till the end (except maybe australia since they know how to win and sustain even now)
The Boston Red Sox also won after an eternity, getting past the Babe Ruth curse. It’s difficult to explain how and why South Africa have failed to deliver at crucial stages in the WC. Australia has been their nemesis in two heartbreaking semifinals, one of which was a tie!
Lara’s brilliance ousted them from the Quarters in ’96 and they were robbed of a fair chance in ’92! If any team “deserves” to win the WC, it has to be South Africa. I can’t say I’m a big fan of Graeme Smith, but the team and its fans certainly deserves it.
yes and what an eternity that was! In the meantime everyone else won a title!
And I can’t agree with this ‘deserving’ bit. You can’t always ‘deserve to win’ without winning it! As for Lara one year, something the next well yes there is always some reason!
Even today what’s the excuse for losing so many wickets against Ireland? What would happen against Aus?! Assuming the latter played well.
Against Ireland, their best batsman, or the most “in-form” batsman, De Villiers wasn’t playing. On the brighter side, Duminy stepped up and must be brimming with confidence now.
I think South Africa shouldn’t chase totals. They should always try to defend them, keeping in mind their obvious strength, i.e their bowling. Even though they chased 434 against Australia (nobody mentions how poorly Australia “choked” in that game!), their best bet to win lies with unleashing Steyn, Morkel & co. Assuming they get to around 250 first.
Satyam, you are being unduly harsh. In the end, South Africa experimented with their batting line up against Ireland (De Villiers was rested; Van Wyk was sent up the order; Colin Ingram, another newcomer was given a chance) and they won handsomely!
The likes of Ireland and Netherlands couldn’t cross 150 against them. West Indies barely crossed 200. England folded for less although they did win the game in the end. But the point remains: SA have the most impressive record in this WC, so far. Australia probably has a better record because they haven’t lost a game, but they scored 250 (only) against Zimbabwe and allowed Kenya to score 270! Their performances are far from ideal at the moment.
Sure, SA lost against England. And they should have won that game easily. But as long as that lone blip comes in the group stages, it’s absolutely fine.
Saket I’d agree with everything you’ve just said except that SA have never made it past the semi-finals. Now unlike soccer this is not such a tough contest as even when it’s a knockout other than Aus there’s almost never a team better than SA on the pure numbers. The ‘bowling and fielding’ factor has been there for them ever single time. And yes any team can be knocked out but there is something called a choke. And by the way we saw this in the India match too. For all of India’s failures they won it with a tail-ender in the final over. This is not something they would have got away with if Aus had been playing and maybe some other teams as well. Again the perplexing thing is precisely their one day record otherwise. So with SA no matter how good they look I am not persuaded till they actually win it all. And so far their own performances have been less than inspiring on the batting front. I’d rather have them win it all than Aus or Eng to be quite honest (though I do like this Eng team). A team can be unlucky once in a WC but not repeatedly. And the knockout deal applies to everyone. By the way ask Aby2000 about it, there are jokes about their chokes in SA!
Want Ireland to beat SA today– SA need to get back to their “choker” days!!
Btw don’t think the sachin sehwag masterclass against sa can happen every other day– have a suspicion that the two of them have already given their best Performance for this wc!!
Hope they keep Somehing in the tank for the next round.
And dhoni needs to get his batting timing back. His wild Swings are not going past close in fielders!!
I don’t think it’s right to call SA wobbly (other than the Eng match) just because they have found ways to win. Aus, for the longest time, had an amazing middle or lower order that kept rescuing them. I think that’s the mark of a really good team.
but haven’t they usually underperformed in the World Cup? But for their history I wouldn’t think as much of this current form. And it’s not just losing to Eng but not even being able to get to such a paltry total.
And speaking of Australia Vs South Africa, the last 10 games between the two sides have resulted in a real thrashing for the Aussies. South Africa lead Australia, hold your breath, by 8-2!
They won 4-1 in Australia and then with the same scoreline in South Afria (although the Tests were split evenly between the two sides). Australia had no answers against Steyn & Morkel. Even Botha!
The only way to stifle South Africa is to subject them to quality spin. Australia doesn’t have a single quality spinner in its ranks. Actually, even though Murali is still playing, even SL doesn’t have the arsenal to contain SA at the moment.
The only threat to South Africa’s campaign in this WC is (and always has been) high quality spin.
I know they’ve done well against Aus on many occasions.. my larger point is that a team with better bowling than India would have beaten them the other day. And again note how many exceptions you keep adding for SA. So now they shouldn’t bat second either! Is this reasonable? Surely a team should be prepared for all possible situations? One team is often unlucky to lose a toss on a certain pitch, one kind of pitch plays more to one team’s strength than another. Etc etc. One can argue that the WC isn’t the best measure of the best team and I’d agree. But that’s the contest! If you’re making exceptions for SA let’s make these for other teams as well.
I’m suggesting a “strategy,” Satyam. Obviously they shoud be willing to chase as well. No team controls the toss anyway.
The point about SA barely crossing the line against India is moot. Australia would have struggled against a score of 296 as well! The point that everyone concedes is that India “lost” the match. It was theirs to lose, even after their batting collapse.
But even so, batting against a vociferous and highly partisan crowd, chasing almost 300, under lights, if the team ultimately crossed the line, it should count for something, no? And it’s quite dramatic to add the point that it was a tailender who finished things for SA, when in reality, Du Plessis, a proper batsman, was standing at the other end, and in fact, played a small but crucial role in the chase.
Saket while I concede your particulars I just think there are too many ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ attached when it comes to SA (now you’ve introduced another one with the crowd factor..). And I don’t see why they should be given the benefit of the doubt when they so far have no WC trophy to show for it. The burden of proof lies on them to show they can do it precisely because they are such a strong team. So it’s quite simple for me. I want to see a cup! They’ve had enough chances. I’ll be pleased if they win as long as they don’t beat India doing so! The crux of the argument for me is simply. They’ve been bridesmaids long enough, actually not even this since they’ve never reached a final! Yes in each case I accept the ‘excuse’ but these add upto ‘choke’ for me. Not being harsh. If they were a weaker team I wouldn’t say all of this.
And I do concede your skepticism as well. South Africans haven’t won the WC! They haven’t even progressed to the finals. These are facts, but much as the whole world acknowledges the superiority of the NZ All Blacks in Rugby, they have surprisingly done little in the WC tournaments to enhance their own reputation (they did win the WC in ’87, the only time in 7 attempts!)
Agree with satyam on SA.
Potential on paper and in the less important matches is one thing.
Delivering under pressure is another.
Du PLessis was “standing” at the other end but would have remained standing.
They were gifted the match by nehra/dhoni and the last 10 overs by india–or else it would have been a repeat of he england match.
Somehow something about SA does NOT command respect.
ONe feels less confident of them winning the cup…
I do find the comments amazing… when india lost 9 wickets for 29 runs, it was the indian batsmen that gave their wickets away….not the excellent bowling and fielding… when SA won the match… it was not through grit and determination but because of dhoni’s decision and nehra’s bowling…wow…might as well kick SA out the tournament…they’re a bunch of useless players who only get lucky because the other team did all the wrong things!
Satyam…yeah… agree.. the wc has been a horror story for SA since forever…but 2 of the world cups were just crazy….when they needed 22 of 1 balls because of the DL system and the most embarrassing mistake of miscalculating the score they needed in another wc…..
The mere fact that india hasn’t even played that well against the smaller teams and they deserve more respect than SA….
What does a person say to these type of comments?
Anyway, the good thing about this world cup is it’s so unpredictable… there is no clear winner till the final happens! As I type this out… Canada has just blasted australia 65/1 in 8 overs…!
Aby2000, as I said the other day I wasn’t at all taking credit away from SA. Just that some matches are lost more by one team than they’re won by the other. Which is not to say SA didn’t show nerves when it counted most.
Though I gotta say Satyam…just watched the highlights of the 438 match…the feeling is as good as winning a world cup…I still remember watching it on the telly…what an amazing match….never in a million years did I expect SA to win it…and we did…with a ball to spare….
\just watched the highlights of ire vs sa.
the way kallis was run out and amla was caught shows how crucial a few good fielders can be to the overall course of the match.
Thats why people like raina should be given a chance.
Must add though—like many SA players like amla, morkel, duminy, ab de villiers etc— all “nice boys” in the real sense of the word unlike the aussie brats…
Sorry Saket as you been in your words right on India or harsh and then Satyam is also right on SA. You just seem more prone to defend SA then India.
With SA they have the potential but something happens to them. They havent been invinicble this WC either..the batting vs England was bad and despite them doing well so far that could easily happen again in the knock out stages.. They nearly lost to India lets not forget having been at 200 odd for two and if it wasnt for nehra SA would have lost despite having the better bowling and fielding..Its always going to be..who gets the most right on the day and tbh anyone is capable of beating anyone especially this WC
I be clear I do agree you are mostly right on India but wanting them to go out is also absurd..India desereve to win as much as anyone else..Teams who win WC apart from Australia in 03 and 07 have normally and the first two WCs with the Windies..normally build up momentum and not always looked the best in the early rounds..
Australia in 99 lost to Pakistan and N Zealand..Pakistan in 92..Australia were real surprise package in 87 and India in 83 came out of nowhere at the time just as thier 20:20 victory
Tendulkar lost his cool after the batting harakiri in Nagpur
There were a lot of disappointed faces at the end of the Indian innings against South Africa at the VCA stadium on Saturday – none more than Sachin Tendulkar.
He had just played his heart out in an effort to put his team in a commanding position from where they could dictate the game. But before he could even remove his batting gear, he could see the advantage being frittered away by one of the shoddiest batting displays in India’s World Cup history.
He had kept his emotions in check but could hold it no longer when he went for a shower and saw all the bathrooms occupied by the batsmen who had just committed harakiri. He gave his team mates a piece of his mind. For him it was a sign of ‘who cares’ attitude. He just couldn’t fathom what had they done to need freshening up. He was held up for the shower and had to finish in a hurry and rush for fielding.
The collapse
The Indian middle and lower order batsmen threw away the advantage provided by Tendulkar’s 111 and Virender Sehwag and Gautam Gambhir’s half-centuries. From 267 for one at one stage, the home team lost their last nine wickets for 29 runs to slump to 296 all out, eventually resulting in their first defeat of the tournament.
Buoyed by the late bowling fightback, South Africa seized the psychological advantage and walked away with the game with three wickets to spare.
Tendulkar was fired up in the field and when the TV camera zoomed in on him, his face reflected the determination. He set a personal example by giving his all in the field, an all-out dash and slide to stop an off drive to the boundary being an example.
Discipline vital
The Mumbai batsman belongs to the old school of cricket where discipline comes first. He is renowned for his commitment to the game and he can’t tolerate anyone taking things easy, whether in training or in an international match.
There are numerous examples when the master has taken his players to task for lax behaviour.
It’s Tendulkar’s ambition to help his country win a World Cup during his career, and this is his last chance.
The team is not playing at its best at the moment but with home advantage, he is confident they can go all the way.
However, given their inconsistent showing so far, someone needs to stoke the fire of ambition in this team; and there is none better equipped than Tendulkar.
However, the inept showing of his teammates meant one more of his gems will go down in a losing cause.
There seems to be a huge gap in the quality of cricket that Sachin Tendulkar is playing in the 2011 World Cup, and many of his team-mates are. And the gap is just as enormous in terms of thinking and approach.
This was never as starkly evident as in the match against South Africa in Nagpur.
Tendulkar batted against Steyn and Co. at what, in terms of fineness and brilliance, can be called the highest level possible on the global stage; some others came up with the kind of performance that would scarcely qualify as befitting a team competing for the sport’s most prestigious trophy.
In the process of pulverising the South African attack, he hit his favourite straight drive with the elbow held high, the feet neatly placed and the body beautifully balanced, pivoted on the back foot and played the hook to perfection, smacked the ball once through the covers off Morkel at a speed his friend Schumacher would be proud of, hit powerfully and effectively in the air in the manner of the destructive Sachin of the 1990s, and outwitted one bowler who, having bowled a dot ball to him which was fielded at mid-wicket, bowled the next one at the same spot, by just slightly changing the angle of the bat and sending it through the gaps for four.
His command over the proceedings was complete, and his mind, ever responsive to the needs of the situation. He ran his singles quickly and gave Virender Sehwag a lot of strike when the Delhi hitter was at his destructive best, and took on the role of aggressor when Gautam Gambhir needed some time to get into his rhythm. Always, he batted along with his batting partner, not in competition with him. And, much as he toyed with the bowling, he did not for a moment breach the principles of sensible cricket. There was no blind hitting, no reckless aggression; the knock of 111 off 101 balls was full of purpose and focus, intended to take the match away from the opposition.
It did indeed take the team to an unassailable position: 267 for 1, with more than 10 overs to go. If India had got no more than just one run per ball from there on, the total would have been in excess of 330. If they had taken singles off most deliveries and hit at least some of them for 2s, 3s and boundaries, the total would have been in excess of 350.
So all the batsmen had to do was to play out the remaining overs. Which they couldn’t. Casual cricket quickly wiped out a world-class effort.
The most intriguing response to the harakiri was Dhoni’s. At the end of the match, he alleged that the batsmen had been trying to please the crowds. He was at the other end when this shoddy display was under way. Did he say anything to them in the middle? It is not clear. Also, after the major batsmen got out, Dhoni could have taken it upon himself to attack and to play out at least 4 balls every over. Instead, he kept getting the singles, and the batsmen at the other end attacked. What, really, was going on?
When Tendulkar was at the crease with Sehwag, and especially with Gambhir, the conversation between them was continual without being disruptive. What happened to the communication levels with the skipper in the middle?
In the field, again, Tendulkar’s efforts surpassed those of younger members of the team. His intensity was fierce; he dived to save singles, ran and threw in briskly; and once, he picked up the ball at third-man and threw swiftly in one easy, uninterrupted action to prevent what would have been an easy two runs.
The Indian wicket-keeper struggled to effect stumpings; one fielder at mid-wicket, and another in the deep, dropped regular catches, and the fielding and throwing left a lot to be desired, so much so that almost every time, the SA batsmen could run one for the throw. The captaincy, of course, was thoroughly unimaginative.
Tendulkar has got two hundreds in the tournament so far, against two major teams in the group; both have been nullified by poor team effort, though he batted nearly 40 overs in each of the games. Even against Ireland, he batted with responsibility after Sehwag and Gambhir got out early, and had he not strung a partnership with Virat Kohli before being caught plumb by teenager George Dockrell – who was born after Sachin had played his first World Cup in 1992 – the game could, perhaps, have ended differently. In any case, India made the chase hard for itself after he had got out.
‘After Tendulkar, the deluge’ has become a reality once again for Indian cricket, in this tournament. And batting, apparently, is India’s greatest (and, at the moment, only) strength.
This is not quite the way Tendulkar would have liked to be on the cusp of a hundred hundreds in international cricket. He would be disturbed.
(Vaibhav Purandare is the author of Sachin Tendulkar: A Definitive Biography, published in India and the UK. As a schoolboy, in 1987-88, he watched helplessly as Tendulkar and his partner-in-amassing-runs, Vinod Kambli, got a world record 664-run partnership against his school, St Xavier’s, Mumbai. He is currently senior associate editor, Hindustan Times, Mumbai)
and all those sceneiors where India doesn’t make it are just absurd. For them to not make it, England has to absolutely thrash WI tomorrow and match India not only in Points, but in NET RR as well where they are WAAAAAY behind. India are as good as in the QF.
Don’t be mislead by the title. I know no one can be sachin.
Last night GOD came in my dream and told me that Dude now that you have seen a great deal of sachin’s life , I ll reverse time and we will start all over again from the day he was born. Just that this time you will be sachin.
I POLITELY REFUSED.
But why. He has attained the status of GOD himself in these 22 years. Who wouldn’t like to be him. Well simply because we haven’t seen the world from his eyes ever. We always have liked/envied his stature, his Ferrari, his ads, his bat, even his curly hair. But we have never tried to see the world from his side of the fence.
Remember when you failed an examination. How many people recall that, your class, friends, relatives? You failed to make it to the IITs or IIMs. Who remembers. How many times have you had the feeling of being the best in your class, school , university, state….., you failed to get a visa stamped this quarter…, you missed a promotion this year…, how did it feel when you dad told you in your early twenties that you are good for nothing…..and now your boss tell you the same…
You keep introspecting and go into a shell when people most of whom don’t matter a dime in your life criticize you, back bite you, make fun of you. You are left sad and shattered and you cry when your own kin scoffs at you. You say I am feeling low today. It takes a lot from us to come out of these everyday situations and move on. A lot??? really?
Now here’s a man standing on the third man boundary in the last over of a world cup match. The bowler just has to bowl sensibly to win this game. What the man at the boundary sees is 4 rank bad bowls bowled without any sense of focus, planning or regret. India loses, yet again in those circumstances when he has done just about everything right.
He does not cry. Does not show any emotion. Just keeps his head down and leaves the field. He has seen these failures for 22 years now. And not just his class, relatives, friends but the whole world has seen these failures. We are too immature to even imagine what goes on in that mind and heart of his. That’s why I would never want to be Sachin.
True he has single handedly lifted to moods of this entire nation umpteen number of times. He has been an inspiration to rise above our mediocrity. Nobody who has ever lifted the willow even comes close to this man’s genius. His dedication and metal strength is unparallel. This is specially for those people who would have made fun of him again last night when India lost. They are people who are mediocre in their own lives. Who just scoff at others to create cheap fun. Who have lived in a small hole throughout their lives and thought they have seen the oceans.
Think about the man himself. He is 37 years of age. He has been playing almost non stop for 22 years. The way he was running and diving around the field last night would have put 22 year olds to shame. The way he played the best opening quickies in the world was breathtaking. He just keeps getting better which is by the way humanly impossible. Its not for nothing that people call him GOD.
But still I don’t want to be in those shoes. We struggle in keeping our monotonous lives straight, lives which affect a limited number of people. Imagine what would be the magnitude of the inner struggle for him, pain both mental and physical, tears that have frozen with time, knees and ankles and every other joint in the body that is either bandaged or needs to be attended to every night, eyes that don’t sleep before a big game, bats that have scored 99 international tons and still see expectations from a billion people.
And he just converts those expectations into reality. We watch in awe, feel privileged.
Well I think its time that his team realizes that enough is enough. They have an obligation, not towards their country alone but towards sachin. They need to win this one for him. Stay assured that he himself will still deliver and leave no stone unturned to make sure India wins this cup.
This is not just a game, and he is not just a sportsman. Its much more than this. Words fail here.
Not so long ago, Dhoni had a reputation for “reading” the game well. In fact, that was the reason why I liked him as captain. He was exemplary in the last season of IPL & the Champions League that followed. He won both tournaments as captain. Of course, he had Bollinger & Murali as bowlers in the team but he read the situation unerringly right, on almost all occasions.
Since the last ODI series against SA, and in this WC, he has shown a depressingly strange “defensive” mindset. His refusal to even point a finger at his bowlers is sickening. He routinely accepts that the side’s fielding can’t be improved. Why? Are only the batsmen playing for the country? Does everyone start playing for himself while fielding? These are stupid statements and they reflect an approach that’s trying to bypass the right approach to cricket. Fielding gives a team the opportunity to save 20-30 runs per game. India’s fielding makes it -20 or -30 per game!
Bowlers like Munaf & Nehra have been playing international cricket for a while now! These guys can’t bowl yorkers even if they were offered sex by ‘apsaras’ in return! Not only that, Munaf Patel with his fielding and his throwing, doesn’t even deserve to play club cricket. He’s an abomination. Any team that employs limpd*ck players like Munaf & Nehra in the WC, no less, deserves to lose straight away!
There’s a very old saying: “Fear & Courage are contagious.” Well so is a limpd*ck attitude. It pains me no end to see these guys on the field. But Dhoni still supports them. Why? I can’t believe there aren’t good bowling prospects, or let me rephrase that, bowlers better than Nehra & Munaf in India. But if the captain supports these lazy buggers, it’s actually outright shameful.
agreed with everything here. Very well summarized. And again this is fantastically entertaining!
“These guys can’t bowl yorkers even if they were offered sex by ‘apsaras’ in return!”
LOL!
Also think that the bowlers for all the reasons you’ve stated are under no real pressure to play a ‘thinking’ game. There are lots of less than superlative talents in cricket who can at least be ‘efficient’ if nothing else. And yes Dhoni’s mysterious defensiveness is also an equally big issue, something which is reflected in his batting as well these days.
Jay mentioned somewhere above that he wasnt too bothered by this loss as India wasnt blown away. That is true but the point is it was a winnable game and we didnt show the application and mindset which is bothersome.
I see where Jay is coming from but the problem is that this has happened twice. Both the games against Eng and SA were winnable. In the first one the bowling/fielding was miserable and just didn’t show up allowing a pretty big score to be equaled by a team that normally doesn’t do this. It’s a big score for anyone but at least an Aus have more practice getting to it! In the second one it was even more flagrant as just some better shuffling of the bowlers’ final overs would have done the trick. If these were different kinds of losses it would be one thing but there is a certain disturbing pattern to them. And which is different from a talented team underperforming at times. It is true that I’m not sure how India solve the bowling issue. and there will be days when the batting won’t be able to do as much. We’d then be dependent on winning a good toss or something. Now having said that where Jay is right is and where I have something of a disagreement with Saket is that the other major sides have also had some very mixed results without exception. So SA definitely had a good win against India but it wasn’t the most convincing kind and you add to this the performance against Eng where such a paltry score couldn’t be reached and you wonder what the issue is. SL have been quite shaky. Pak had a huge loss against NZ. Aus just haven’t been tested so far. But all of this takes nothing away from the fact that the Indian bowlers just need to buck up and very fast. Because when the S African batting doesn’t perform you know it’s not for lack of talent. When Nehra doesn’t show up one has to point out the obvious as Saket has!
No one has been convincing so far. India’s best is yet to come. I can feel it!
My only fear is Australia. They are undefeated in a WC since Pakistan beat them in 1999. They are not playing like world champions, but with this “streak” behind them, the self belief must be considerable. A team is trying not only to beat them but create a bit of history. And with Hussey now back, I fear this team even more! He is a fantastic finisher.
India’s bowling is average, but its hardly been great for many years. This is not new knowledge to anyone! There strength is batting and they are heavily reliant on it. If it clicks they will win it. I am sure. By clicking I mean against England and SA for 40 odd overs it was great, but the final 10 overs need to be good too. If they can manage this they will always stand a chance.
Also when was the last time minnows scored like Holland (292 vs England), Bangladesh (283 vs India), Ireland (329 vs England), Canada (261 vs NZ), Kenya (264 vs Aus), Canada (211 vs Aus). A lot of big teams have conceded big totals against teams they would usually blow away for well below 150 (and thats not counting a number of other decent totals posted by minnows against the top sides)
India are in the mix as much as anyone. Neither have they performed so badly that I think they cannot win the world cup, nor has another team performed so well to suggest they will win it. At least in 2007 Australia were odds on. In 2003 they were overwhelming favs. Its incredible open world cup, where even a team like NZ cannot totally be ruled out. They have big hitters like McCullum, Taylor and Oram. WI have Gayle or Pollard. Only needs a 60 off 35 from one of these to turn an innings around. 50 over cricket now is getting more unpredictable not only because teams are closer in quality, but T-20 has opened up many possibilities from teams to score heavily in the space of 10-15 overs.
Guys, check this young prodigy. He’s all of 21 years old but look at the swing he generates! Unfortunately for India, he wasn’t even given a chance in any of the meaningless ODIs that India played before the WC!
wow! the other thing is that India needs a serious bowling coach who knows a thing or two about swing, especially reverse swing which works very well in subcontinental conditions. Wasim Akram once gave some tips to Pathan that were very useful and helped him. After a while he started slipping up, Akram was asked about it and he said that Pathan had potential but that he wasn’t doing some of the things he needed to and which he had talked to him about. It’s an art like any other. In Pakistan it’s been passed on from one bowler to another at least since Imran Khan (who credited his skills to Sarfaraz Nawaz) and while all have not been equally talented by any means they just keep producing serious pace and swing. I think it would be fantastic for the Indian team to get either Wasim or Waqar as a coach but the political realities makes this more or less impossible. Those guys love the Indian team, they love being in India but taking up such a position full-time would be hard. In the absence of this we are depending on a bowler independently developing and acquiring similar skills where there is no such similar tradition. And the Aus/S African/ Eng models don’t work as well in subcontinental conditions from the coaching point of view. But again there have been bowlers who’ve shown promise from time to time but they never develop. Munaf Patel is a classic example. Either the pace vanishes or the control is lost (what little they start out with), so on and so forth. Zaheer is the one guy who’s become much better over the years, especially in tests but he’s hardly a great talent.
Even though Sachin and Sehwag are on a tear the most lusty hitting of the tournament has to be that of Ross Taylor of New Zealand who took 28 runs off an Akhtar over and then proceeded to take 30 off a Razaq over. The 50 ball century by Kevin OBrien has to be second then followed by Sachin/Sehwag duo.
Australia opened bowlin with tait– reminds me of Sreesanth — also tait chucks intermittently.
Brett Lee is past his prime- maybe he should record a few More albums with asha!
Australia look beatable
Canadas opener h patel (who is originally from ahmedabad) really enjoyed lee and tait bowling.
Canadas team appeared an indian team (a seond rate one though)—patel, bagai, cheema, sarkar, rao—lol
Malinga is a slinger beyond compare, Murali chucks, Shoaib and even Afridi (when he is trying to bowl a quicker one). Our own Bhajji has been called a suspect by Bedi.
Murali chucks at least intermittently.
MAybe he does it less frequesntly now and manages to garb it much more undwer the pretext of his “bent elbow” or “legal angulation at delivery”.
But the bottomline is that how is this daylight cheating going on.
Dont think bhajji chucks (although he rarely spins the ball)
On many occasions, the part time fifth bowler like yuvraaj or sehwag/ raina manage to extract more spin than bhajji.
All this talk of “doosra” is defunct. Yes he has some variations and good control, but thats not enuf for the “bowling spearhead”.
Kumble is missed even now esp in tests!!!
On Wednesday, Hiral Patel had one such priceless moment, which a fan may bring up in some inane drunken chat in some pub in the future. It was a sizzling knock from Patel, filled with cuts and drives, but one shot screamed out for attention from posterity. It was a 148.5kph thunderbolt from Shaun Tait that bounced short of a length. It demanded respect, but it got insouciance. Patel just leaned back, lifted the front leg in the air and absolutely thumped it on the up and over cover for a mind-blowing six.
It was ballsy, impish and had a dash of an innocent arrogance that can only come from an amateur teenager. It was a shot of a lifetime, and probably will be so in the case of Patel, as Canada might disappear from the World Cup map if the ICC keeps out the Associates from the 2015 edition, and who knows what Patel will be doing in four years’ time.
What makes the Patel moment almost magical is the context. Here is a 19-year-old kid from the cricketing backwaters of Canada, facing the fiery fast men of the World champion side. Tait, Brett Lee and Mitchell Johnson can make strong men go weak in the knees, but this kid was merrily thumping them.
It brought back memories of a completely contrasting player, the defensive David Steele, who was plucked out of anonymity by the England captain Tony Grieg at the age of 33 to face Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson. He wore steel-rimmed spectacles, nearly lost his way while walking out to the middle on debut at Lord’s, and stirred a nation’s imagination by defending the hostile men with aplomb. The Sun’s Clive Taylor hailed him as “The bank clerk who went to war”. Patel could well be the kid who went to war.
For 58 minutes, the kid stunned the grown-up men from Australia. In 45 balls, he experienced what he might never feel again: what it is like to be a conqueror of a fiery attack. Apart from that six off Tait, there was a serene shot that stood out among the adrenaline-fuelled gems. Lee had just nailed him with a sharp bouncer, which he just about managed to evade with a weak waft. That reaction made you lean forward in the seat to catch the next-ball action. Is Patel mentally strong enough to handle the next delivery? Would he retreat back, if not back away?
Lee too, it seems, was thinking on those lines, for he hurled the next delivery fuller and straighter to catch the batsman by surprise. Patel strode forward – it was the maximum he stretched on the front foot in the entire cameo – and creamed it through the covers. It said so much about the plucky kid. He went on to even hook Lee for a six.
The knock drew a lot of praise from Ricky Ponting, who even threw in a reference to Virender Sehwag. “He was savage on us. There was a bit of Sehwag in how he played freely,” Ponting said. “Looking at the way he plays, he’s a fairly unusual sort of player in the fact that he scored probably 90% of his runs in the one area today, which was around the point, backward point area. The new ball swung a bit, which offered him a little bit of room, and that was all he needed. He accepted the room and he hit some amazing shots at the top of the innings.
Ponting, though, did say that part of the early shock his team suffered was due to a lack of knowledge of the opposition. “We didn’t know a lot about him [Patel]. We didn’t know a lot about a lot of their players, from the fact that we haven’t played against a lot of them and we didn’t have a lot of footage on a lot of their players either. The notes and everything we had was more about their careers stats and a few clippings on things they’d done in this tournament. We probably didn’t bowl as well as we needed to.”
Even Patel’s dismissal brought a smile to your face. When he was going hammer and tongs, a couple of us journalists looked up his profile on ESPNcricinfo, written by a Canadian journalist Faraz Sarwat. It ended with this gem: “When it works it can be spectacular, but there is always the danger that Patel’s innings won’t amount to too much more than giving catching practice to the fielder stationed at deep third man.” That is followed by a quote from the former Canada captain Sunil Dhaniram, “Hiral loves to play the cut over third man. It’s his favourite shot, but he needs to be careful, though, about when he plays it”. Soon, out in the middle, Hiral slashed a cut against Shane Watson and the ball settled in the palms of a fielder stationed, where else, but third man.
By then, though, the boy who was born in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, a state in India, and currently lives in Canada, had unfurled a memorable knock and a dreamy shot that will stand the test of time
Malinga is not a chucker. He has a side arm action and people with such actions are unfairly accused of chucking. I speak from personal experience. It is true that it is possible to generate a bit more pace with such an action. It may look suspect but as long as the elbow is straight when it crosses the shoulder, it is kosher.
Here’s a lesson for Dhoni and even Strauss. While England’s field was defensive, runs flowed; as soon as Strauss was forced to attack, wickets tumbled. While chasing, the batting team is already under pressure. The key is to not release it by making singles difficult! If Dhoni has been able to extricate his head out of his ass by now, he’d learn enough to stand on firm ground.
Graeme Swann is miles ahead of Harbhajan Singh as an off spinner. It’s a treat to watch him bowl. Too bad, Dhoni has been using Harbhajan & Chawla as his frontline spinners. The land of spinners is doomed in more ways than one! He had earlier shown faith in another spinner – Ravindra Jadeja and he cost India two T20 WCs. What is obvious to the whole world is always a mystery to Dhoni!
Bhajji has become a lazy/defensive spinner: all he does is toss it up and try and “purchase” wickets that way. As if he lacks the confidence to try and bowl people out.
Dont think either nehra or munaf is AS bad as to dig their graves!
They are certainly comparable to Balwinder singh Sandhu and Madan Lal, if not better.
Infact, when Munaf is in flow, he can have a good control of line and length.
Nehra is easily the MOST injury prone coricketer in world cricket rite now!!
Sandhu & Madan Lal could at least field according to the standards prevalant in that era! What can one say about Munaf & Nehra (Or Zaheer, for that matter)? These guys aren’t good enough for club cricket, and frankly, I am amazed that people have the patience to bear with their horrible attitude/work ethics on the field.
If in the corporate world, in the present, if an employee refuses to use email as a form of communication and prefers snail mail, the company wouldn’t take 2 seconds to fire him! You either get with the times or you get thrown out.
But apparently, one can STILL be a lazy bugger in Indian cricket and make millions. Nevermind the existing standards; nevermind even the expectations of 1 billion fans, these guys live by their own rules. Which, by the way, means the absence of any rules!
Just watched parts of a tennis march — indian wells open, california.
Nadal bs somdev devvarman!!
Probably one of the best tennis performance by an indian.
Nadal was stretched to the limit in the first set– Nadal won 7-5 and it is 4-4 in he second. But the quality of tennis shown by devvarman stunned me.
Nadal was stunned was well but seems nadal will recover to ultimately win!!!
Having played tennis to a reasonable level myself, could appreciate the guts is devvarman. While I write this, Nadal wins the second set 6-4 and won the match.
But the match was Much closer than the score suggests.
If he keeps his head and does not get injured, devvarman has a good future.
Oops, why I am discussing about something non cricket– it is sacrilege!!
Amazing how cricket has killed almost every other game in the indian conscience!!!
Somdev is the male version of Sania Mirza.
I suspect that Nadal was rather dismissive of a non entity Somdev and thus had to pay. The way we treat Irish and other minnows until they shock us.
Will Australia allow England to win?
Happy for England —nice to see eng get the better of WI—
was secretly scared they may not be able to do it.
England is the team I WANT to be the winner IF india DONT!!
Although i SHOULD be supporting England!!
Two points about England—
their (still not sure of the next round) reminds me of WC 1992 (Pak)
MAybe its my bias, but England till now reminds of Pak in 1992!!!
By the way, lIke Andrew Strauss
Have even bowled to him ( in nets) –lol
Incidentally Strauss (as a person) reminds me of everything I like about England (and not about USA!!
Have played in the Counties( minor counties) circuit in the recent past
Met Strauss few years ago and bowled to him in the nets—Gr8 guy!(although not sure if he remembers)
Personally though—Am a better player of tennis than cricket!!
although by Munaf/nehra standards, not too bad myself–lol
Just watched the last 15 overs of the Eng WI match. I agree with Alex….England spinners are way better than Indian. Swann was so very attacking and was a treat to watch. Even tredwell did a great job. All of England games have been pretty close, the one against India, Ireland, Bangladesh, South Africa and now West Indies. They cant complain like Australia that they lack match practice hehehe
Say what you will, but England has made this WC so far. Every single match of theirs has been rivetting, for whatever reasons. We should thank them for this entertainment. But seriously though, when a team’s fate in any major event is this unreal (almost scripted), you tend to wonder if they’re destined for something. Like Alex, I agree, this England run is increasingly resembling Pakistan in 1992!
I thought it might be tough for SL today but the bowlers are doing it yet again. They’ve not had any convincing batting performance so far, even against Aus they’d lost quick wickets. Sangakkara performs some form of a rescue more often than not. But the bowling has really been coming through. Gives a team great confidence when they know that they can make a match out of even 260 or so.
Poor Bangladesh have to beat SA tomorrow to stay alive! The more interesting matchup of course is Aus/Pak. The latter have lost to NZ and will not want to lose again and Aus have not had any major opponent so far except SL where the match had to be called off and of course NZ.
The way things stand now if all the remaining matches play out on form i.e. SA beating Bangladesh, Aus beating Pakistan and India beating WI, India will be number 2 in group B and will meet #3 of Group A New Zealand. If they lose to WI they will most likely be #3 in their group and then will play Srilanka.
SriLanka are looking the most dangerous team right now. India shd try to avoid playing them in the quarters. If India ends up second in Group B, they won’t have to play them till the finals. Srilankan spinners are very dangerous when chasing, I still remember the 1996 semifinal in Calcutta when the ball turned more than 60 degrees. The old fox Murali is still very potent.
South Africa rest Steyn, Morkel in the game against Bangladesh. This is strange. Really, replacing both your lead bowlers for newcomers and untested ones either displays a great deal of confidence or a lackadaisical attitude!
Bangladesh have saved at least 20 runs here in the slog overs. SA meanwhile played a traditional one day game. They had 200 in 40 overs and even till the 45th hadn’t picked up that dramatically but some big hits by du Plessis elevated the total quite a bit followed by Peterson who’s becoming rather dependable in these situations. This total is obviously too huge for Bangladesh but it would also be trouble for most other teams.
If they win today, sans De Villiers, Steyn & Morkel, it’s going to be a big confidence booster for them!
Having said that, it’s a big test for Tsotsobe & Parnell, both bowlers without express pace. The spin department, with Botha, Peterson & Tahir, looks more balanced. Kallis too, will bowl a few overs at least. That’s the advantage of having genuine all rounders in your side. There’s no dearth of options for the captain.
Well so if India win they either play New Zealand or Australia depending on if Australia win or loose.. and if India loose they play Sri-Lanka for sure. Tbh India can win any of these but they should really beat W Indies to have some momentum..Eventhough if we have said before..no momentum needed etc as you can imagine how the Media will slaughter Dhoni if they dont win tomorrow
Here’s a ‘logical’ & time-tested formula for you: Teams relying on their bowling and fielding will always trump teams solely relying on batting! Specially in ODIs. Now that the wickets will be assisting spin heavily, teams will find it increasingly difficult to score above 300.
Bat first, score 250, field like Jonty Rhodes (only a few teams can do that) and win. It’s that simple, really.
If Australia can manage 250 today, it’s going to be very difficult for Pakistan. Australia will choke their batsmen and it will require a special effort from a couple of batsmen, at least, to overhaul 250 against a fielding side like Australia.
Australia won’t score more than 200 today! Their unbeaten run is all but over…
Pakistan’s been at their best today. But a team that can’t play Mohd Hafeez, deserves to lose! The upside is, now that Australia have that loss out of their way, they might become more dangerous. Although, the present batting line up doesn’t excite my imagination at all.
Australia 144/7 at the moment. All Ponting’s fault? He’s been woefully out of form through out the tournament. Cameron White has been in even worse form! Makes one wonder, even top teams can get it all wrong at important junctures in a tournament.
great fielding by pakistan today and even better bowling. this is a huge boost in our confidence as for as the bowling and fielding go. 176 is very reachable but with pakistan you never know especially against Aussie. This will be a HUGE win for pakistan.
Umar Gul has been Pakistan’s lynchpin in the bowling department, even if Afridi’s the leading wicket taker. I think 176 is definitely gettable and all Pakistan needs to do is bat out the 50 overs…
easier said than done…pakistan need to show some maturity here. Aussie’s will be looking for blood and as soon as they smell it they will annihilate us.
brett lee is on FIRE. he is trying his hardest to intimidate the batters with his bowling and then his antics after his bowling. and yes if we can’t chase 176(even against Aussie) we don’t belong in this tournament.
Pak suddenly in trouble. This is exactly like the Aus innings. They were 90/2 at one point. Pak similarly have gone from that to 98/4 and now it’s suddenly tricky for them. They can’t lose any other wicket at this point.
Afridi is the most stubborn captain alive. that dude has turned into a foolish batsmen. this victory should not have been this hard. a 21 yr old akmal and 25 yr old shaffique played solidly and smartly while the elder batsmen played like idiots. this is a solid victory by pakistan non the less. an incredible 34 WC winning streak comes to an end by aussie…last team to beat the aussie’s were pakistan in ’99. maybe this might wake up the aussie’s.
if pakistan field like they did today and bowl with discipline…we will be very tough to beat. hopefully this victory won’t put over confidence in this team and then we lose to WI(assuming india beat WI tomorrow).
now this is interesting.. If India wins tomorrow, they will face the Aussies in the QF!
If they lose, they will face Sri Lanka..
what should we pray for? For India to lose…?
and If I am Pakisan, I would want to play WI. As much as England having troulbe in this world cup. England might feel like they are playing on house money now and you never want to play a time like this….
Yep tbh Saket I think finally India are not ignoring the fielding ..against S Africa its getting tad better..Do India mind playing Australia right now in QF..I suspect not.. if India loose tomorrow they then play New Zealand but would India really want that route with no mometum to play New Zealand..and have the Media and fans against them..Interesting
yes someone else earlier made the smart point that you have to fear SL bowling more than Aus bowling at this point. But either way this is more a semi-final kind of matchup.
Yes I would fear SL’s bowling attack and also I think SL just have a better record against India in these crunch matches like in 1996 and 2007. Matches in 1999 and 2003 between the two hardly mattered.
Australia are a bit vulnerable. Get the feeling if you can get the openers out and get Ponting in quick, you got a chance against him.
it’s an interesting match tomorrow because the stakes are not high for either team. Unless WI lose catastrophically they are still through. The same for India of course except that the opponent is very different. But this is where a win against Eng and SA might have given them a preferable opponent (though I haven’t worked this out).
This WC in any case continues to be strange, stranger and strangest!
I might add that India has not beaten a non-minnow in any of the last 4 “world” competitions: the most recent Champions Trophy, the last two T20 world cups, and so far this world cup. So they need to break that trend today, else even though they will qualify for the quarters they will be facing an early exit. So far Dhoni’s team has done nothing to counter my impression that India is a good test team and a pretty average limited overs team (the home pitches are not an advantage but a disadvantage: as satyam will confirm, I have long been saying that India will fare better on wickets that are NOT flat — because the quality of their batting has a better chance to shine; and because the swing bowlers can be threatening. Flat pitches are the great equalizer: on its day even Ireland can score 300+, but a better line-up won’t really get to 400, while, since none of the Indian seam bowlers have any serious pace, they seem toothless (i.e. even on flat pitches at least serious pace can trouble batsmen, especially tailenders). Now a good spin attack could make up for a lot of this, but India’s is mediocre — England, Pakistan, and SL all seem to have better attacks at present).
I hope I am wrong, but this is why I have been pretty pessimistic about our chances. [BTW, my pre-tournament semi-final predictions were SA, Pakistan, SL and India, with England/Australia possibly replacing one of the desi teams here.] BUT: So far only Pakistan and (to an extent) England have played well against TWO quality teams (Pakistan beat SL and Australia; England beat SA and tied India chasing 338), the others have not really aced their tests (Australia failed at the first test, against Pakistan; and before the match was called off SL was on course to set a total that would have been challenging for Australia; SA got a gift batting collapse from India that was hardly caused by their bowling, and stumbled against England; India failed then passed then tied against England when the latter was chasing; and failed against South Africa) — so this World Cup is wide open. Probably the most hard to call since 1992 (certainly since 1996)…and now the REAL games begin…
good win by pakistan and quite surprising acutally.everyone thot it was sri or sa who cud break the winning streak of aus.
umar gul is looking like the bowler of the series.i m impressed by the new guy asad shafiq’s temperament.however pak batting still looks weak.
Congrats to pakistan for their facile win over Australia…
Good to see the punter’s winnig stream broken.
Nowhere, i get a bit concerned for any team when it overperforms BEFORE the knockout round!!
Anyhow so who will india play if they win or lose against WI??
dont bother much about momentum– ie is it better for india to win or lose agaisnt WI — although it is not desirable to wilfully lose (escept if one makes megabucks by bookies–hahaha)
I would prefer India wins against WI and face Australia rather than losing and facing Srilanka which will be a tough match. Also if India wins against Aussie in the quarterfinals and Pakistan does the same against WI, guess what……..we are looking at a India versus Pakistan semi finals….WOW
ofcourse….ANY team is beatable in this WC unlike 2003 and 2007 where Australia basically bulldozed ever team in it’s path. It’s just that these fact (not stat actually) can sometime play mind games. This is probably the weakest Australian team in a WC since 1992.
Yeah that record doesn’t mean anything as WI have for a long time been like bangladesh or Zimbabwe! There’s been a complete collapse of their local cricket structure. Don’t think there’s any way they’d beat Pakistan unless the latter shoot themselves in the foot.
‘Don’t think there’s any way they’d beat Pakistan unless the latter shoot themselves in the foot.’
and that is exactly what pakistani fans are afraid of happening. also, complacency has always been pakistan’s biggest enemy(see match against canada after beating SL).
on another tourney note…my NCAA bracket has just been busted…damn you pittsburg!!!!
From now on, it will be a “free for all”.
Anybody can fcuk anybody….
Actually u cannot even count out WI or Nz : even they can shock in QF!!!
Basically there is no standout team and pak today ensured that no team reaches QF without getting fcuked once!!!
So Australia isn’t a virgin any longer…
Btw talking of “virginity” and lack of it– Sanka mirza wins the indian wells doubles with a Russian girl.
Well, shoaib malik is doing “something” right and seems that he is using his time out of the team!!!
so if india are chasing 300 and then get all out at 130….does that mean they play Pakistan in the first round? is that debacle worth it or they play aussie? im sure someone in that Indian clubhouse has thought about that. bottomline though, you always play to win matches and never to lose them.
Agree with qalander above– valid points!!
Another point to note is that pak is the only team who has already beaten not one but two title contenders ie aus and SL.
Pak should be hoping that there overperformance has not come early!!
Another point– people like the aus and SL captains have not scored a century for ages — sangkarra scored one last week after ages. In india people like Tendulkar, sehwag, even gambhir et al score them every few months.
Even if the bowling is horridly weak as indias, there WiLL be the random occasions where the pitch will help or the batting will auto collapse. Can there be a bigger indication of the amount of gulf in indias bowling and batting??? Come to think of it– if indias bowling was even decent(currently pathetic)— they would have been virtually unbeatable.
Will watch ind WI match– but again the real action begins AFTER this match!!!!
Both Tendulkar and gambler gone. Yuvraaj just batted an Andre Russell maiden over. Y doesn’t Yuvraaj think of singles when he doesn’t like bouncy pace– atleast rotate strike??
India seems to have forgotten the Arthur the quick “dab and run@ single! Makes a
Difference of atleast 25 runs in a match which is crucial!
Barring Tendulkar and dhoni nobody seems to be on active lookout for singles – relieves pressure, rotates strikes— elementary fact!!
Some like Yuvraaj (who seems to nenplayojg well today) looks too lazy to exert for a
Single!
Having said that, Yuvraaj seems to be the indian payer of the wc so far.
This opens up few options both in batting and bowling.
Illustrates what I keep saying about peaking at the right time– Yuvraaj who has been in doldrums with a beer belly for a year or so— has peaked at the rite time– even when rock bottom, always supported his place in the team since he is a matchwinner!
Good to see raina and ashwin in!
Think when sehwag returns after injury, there is no place currently for gambhir!!
Terrific hundred from Yuvi, not the usual Yuvraj in full flow but nevetheless a very useful and efficient innings. Now he should capitalize on the powerplay though he looks tired out there right now.
Much improved performance from our batting line-up: this time they lost the last 7 wickets for 50 runs, significantly better than the 9 for 29 and 7 for 33 collapses against, respectively, SA and England.
so far it was india’s bowling that was pathetic but batting too seems to be following suit.
I dont care even if ind wins or loses this match.meri bachi-khuchi umeed bhi chali gayi.India dont deserve to win the WC IMO.SL or Aus whoever they meet , are gonna beat the crap out of this team in qf.SL or Aus look fav to win this WC
Looks like they’ll be playing SL in the quarters. It doesn’t look good for them for sure but on the other hand it’s just one game at a time at this point. I think there’s a crisis of captaincy at this point. The only plan is to have the batting show up and hope the other side will get bowled out. The bowling is being handled in very haphazard fashion. It’s obviously a weak bowling side but it’s done far better than this. The question now is whether India’s quarterfinal is in Ahmedabad, Colombo or Bangladesh. Zaheer has just removed Smith but I think it might be too little too late.
All said and done guys I’m quite optimistic for the quarterfinal. I’ve seen lots of teams start off poorly in these tournaments and then do well. Admittedly not without good bowling but I’m nonetheless hopeful.
TBH its time to write off Indias chances in this WC feel sorry for Sachin..India dont deserve him. They deserve every bit of criticism from the Media they will get and thats it. It be a minor miracle if they reach the semi finals ..Shame Shame..India had to save thier worse for this WC. India are the new chokers in these ICC tournaments
How about some quarters predictions? I think Pak have the easiest time and will get to the semis unless they shoot themselves in the foot, head and everywhere else! I would also think SL will win it at home against Eng though toss will probably be important here. Similarly SA should be able to take down NZ. India of course play Aus in Ahmedabad, I will give India the edge here. Only because the Aus batting has been brittle. But Pak/WI seems like the only completely predictable deal at this point. Also glad Sachin failed today as opposed to later. He’ll be needed for the next one!
Pakistan should thrash the Windies — but if it happens to be Gayle’s/Pollard’s day, anything could happen. Also, Kemar Roach versus the Pakistani batsmen (he was rested today) should be interesting to see. My money’s on Pakistan, SA, Eng (they’ve had a crazy ride so far, but have both the spin and the seam attack), and India (‘cuz I can’t bet against them!) making the semis.
Pakistan have a ‘dangerous’ game. They always play well when they are the underdogs. Just look at this WC. They were underdogs against SL and AUS and beat them both. They were favs against NZ and were destroyed. India – Aus obviously is the best matchup and knocking Aus out of a tournament is huge task. India’s best option obviously is to hopefully win the toss and bat first, pile up over 300 and get the Aussies opener (specially Watson) out early. SA – NZ may not be a walkover for SA as everone here believes. NZ always do well in the WC and SA have to worry about not choking again. I think SL – England is the only true one sided match of the QF. Just don’t see how England can matchup with SL.
Sad to see Pak – India potentially meeting in SF…..anyway they can’t look past their respective matches (which is probably what both did in 1987 in the Sem Finals). My prediction is PAK – INDA and SL-NZ (upset pick).
And dont forget 57000 odd ahmedabadis support… they are in my hometown, and it would be lucky for the team.. unfortunately i wont going to watch it… but best wishes… and ahmedbad army would support and back them!
SA in all honesty has been the most solid team so far in the WC. I know India is the popular pick against the Australians but they are 3 time defending champ’s and I don’t think they will go out in the QF. Pakistan might have just woken up a ‘sleeping giant’.
It’s just unfortunate that India and Australia have to face each other in the QF.
As for Pakistan, we have to beat WI and after that either against India or Australia we have little chance of beating them only because our bowling isnt that great and batting is very inconsistent. Beating the aussie’s once in 11 years does not make us better than them!!
I expect SA,India,SL and Pakistan to go through. Not with any degree of certainty tho. So far, Pakistan have been a surprise. WI seem to very brittle and if both teams play true to form Pakistan should be in the semis. SA should be fine against NZ. England has been very inconsistent and find it hard to belive they can beat SL. India, if the batting clicks have an edge over the Aussies.
Anyway, the one to get all four semi teams right gets a copy of two ‘arthouse, prestige’ films in KANK and MNIK.
The QF draw is actually not fair for india and Australia — this looks more like a semifinal or final matchup. One of these two will be held up prematurely.
Think the stupid collapse against SA may haunt india later.
Having said that, IF there is a risk to beat australia — this is it…
Also ind Australia will e played ona working day so no live viewing !!
Pak, SA and SL have the easier cakewalk!!— if these three don’t win their QF, they don’t deserve to proceed!
The dormant likes of dhoni, sehwag, Pathan need to fire .. The likes of bhajji, munaf need to be kicked to play to their potential. Sachin, yuvraj and zaheer seem to be playing fine anyhow—- think indian team cannot be underestimated in THiS round although it becomes trendy to do so!!!
Also hope England get last SL although it will be difficult with those pitches , slingers and chuckers …..
My predictions are India, Pak, SA and SL. The India/Aussie match and the SL/Eng match will be close (SL maybe strong but Eng will give a tough fight). And then get ready for a India/Pak semi final. I might have to take a day off to watch the match live.
I fancy India to beat Australia quite convincingly. SA to do the same to NZ.
SL should beat England. Pak/WI is where I fancy the shock, and WI to beat them.
Then India to beat WI and SA to beat SL.
India to beat SA in the final.
dude lemme say it … the venue is motera, ahmd and i would add to hunch of Jay it would be lucky for them.. and this gound has been previosuly lucky if i am not wrong!
India shd easily beat Australia, both their batting and bowling is very weak. I expect India and SL to reach the final. That shd be India’s real test. Srilankan bowling is very good, they still have Murali and plays very well on big occasions.
Hahaha jayshah and prasad– it’s not so straight forward with due respect to the other teams– they are here to play with their balls- pun intended!!
This is the time when the real matchwinners / the big ones need to stand up and get counted.
Infact this is a totally different ballgame.
still feel Australia is the toughest team to beat in QF out of all.
They analyse and strategise for each and every player ESP in big occasions. This is a weaker Aussie team but they still know how to win and are not surprisingly not no 1 for nothing.
Think the india- Australia QF may decide more than the semifinaljst — it may decide the eventual winner of the cup!!!!
Yes. It takes too long to get to the bottom of the comments. Let us have a fresh thread.
Yesterday it was a hat rick for India. Cricket win, Saina’s Swiss triumph and Sania’s doubles triumph at India Wells.
A win is a win and India facing Australia is really exciting than waiting for that face off and never getting it if things have gone wrong.
Many were waiting to bash Dhoni and they were disappointed yesterday.
The other thing is such a massive number of indian origin in various teams– Canada nearly the whole team, west indies eg bishoo, rampaul, sarwan, Kenya and others I’m forgetting!
Just like sa was holding back tahir to prevent being overexposed; seems dhoni did the same with ashwin. And if this was not the intention, why the fcuk was ashwin not played earlier
Also t20s have confused not only the viewers but players and coaches as well.
If a decent team does not lose more than 3 or 4 wickets by the 40 th over, it becomes difficult to Lose irrespective of scoring rates ie wickets in hand is more IMp than thought
‘Dhoni must go with three spinners should the wicket offer turn’
Former Pakistan captain Wasim Akram feels that India captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni should use three specialist spinners in the quarter-final against Australia in order to exploit the weakness of Ricky Ponting’s men against slow bowlers.
“If the wicket in Ahmedabad offers turn, then MS Dhoni should definitely opt for three spinners since the Aussies don’t play spin that well,” Akram told Mobile ESPN in an interview.
Sri Lanka had adopted a similar strategy during their clash against the Aussies on a turning track at the Premadasa stadium in Colombo on March 5. However the Lankan spin-trio of Muttiah Muralitharan, Ajantha Mendis and Rangana Herath did not get a chance to showcase their skills as the match got washed out.
However, Akram added that in case the pitch at Ahmedabad is a flat one, then the ploy to stack the side with spinners may backfire on India .
“Playing so many spinners on a batting track may spell doom for India since the slower bowlers will not get much assistance from the surface,” Akram said.
India have played with two specialist spinners in four out of the six league games in this tournament. However they haven’t played a single match yet with all three spinners (Harbhajan Singh, R Ashwin and Piyush Chawla) in the eleven.
One major worry for Team India , going ahead into the knockout stages, will be the back-to-back batting collapses against South Africa and the West Indies. While they lost nine wickets for only 29 runs against the Proteas in Nagpur, Dhoni and company performed marginally better on Sunday losing their last seven wickets for the addition of only 51 runs.
Akram mentioned that despite this recklessness by the most-famed batting line-up in the world, there is not much reason to worry for the fans.
“Yes, India’s batting has collapsed badly twice. But I don’t think there is any major reason to worry as these things happen by chance. At the same time, you have to plan your innings and cannot afford to slog every delivery. I am quite sure the experienced Indian middle-order will learn a lot out of their mistakes,” concluded Akram.
Indian batting maestro Sachin Tendulkar and Australian captain Ricky Ponting’s contrasting World Cup dismissals have re-ignited the debate around walking, an issue that gained prominence in the 2003 World Cup semi-final when Adam Gilchrist walked back to the pavilion despite an appeal against him getting no response from the umpire.
Tendulkar had edged a delivery behind in the first over of Sunday’s match against West Indies in Chennai and then immediately turned and walked to the pavilion.
This was despite umpire Steve Davis giving the 36-year-old not out.
Replays of the incident were inconclusive, which suggests that Davis’s initial decision may not have been overturned had Tendulkar stayed at the crease.
Tendulkar’s decision to walk was in complete contrast to the actions of Ponting against Pakistan in Colombo.
Part-timer Mohammad Hafeez had Ponting cut a delivery only to edge it to wicketkeeper Kamran Akmal. Ponting was ruled not out by umpire Marais Erasmus but Pakistan successfully reviewed the decision and TV replays were clear that Ponting had edged it.
Ponting admitted after the match that he had edged the ball, but said that he stayed at the crease because he has never been a walker.
“There were no doubts about the nick — I knew I hit it. But as always, I wait for the umpire to give me out. That’s the way I’ve always played the game,” the Sydney Morning Herald quoted Ponting, as saying.
West Indies captain Darren Sammy praised Tendulkar’s sportsmanship, while Ponting’s actions were criticised by Pakistan coach Waqar Younis.
Sammy hailed Tendulkar as “a true gentleman” for walking back to the pavillion despite the umpire signalling not out in their World Cup Group B clash in Chennai.
Sammy appreciated Tendulkar’s honesty as he chose to walk back to the pavillion despite being declared not out by Australian umpire Steve Davis off a Ravi Rampaul delivery.
“It shows the measure of the man. He is a true gentleman. After 17,000 runs, he could walk. That was brilliant on the part of Sachin,” Sammy said after his side lost the match by 80 runs in Chennai on Sunday.
Commenting on Ponting’s actions, Waqar said: “There is a system there now in place so you can’t get away with it. It’s nice to see people walking, but that doesn’t happen now I guess.”
Satyam pls delete the above link… am posting the article here….thanks…
At least we still have cricket
The great game – and especially Hashim Amla – give us reason to hold our heads up high
Mar 15, 2011 11:09 PM | By Peter Delmar
Peter Delmar: The secret to being a successful newspaper columnist is the following (I know this because a successful newspaper columnist once told me): give the people what they want.
First, you rail against corruption, rant about prejudice and rage against incompetence. Then you rail some more about corruption. (Alliteration also usually does the trick.) But, most importantly, you write about stuff the reading masses want to read.
Right now no one wants to read any more about Manyi and Manuel. Or municipal elections or mining rights. Right now the only thing people want to read about is a funny old game called cricket.
It is thanks to cricket that we are a nation once again holding its head up high. It is thanks to cricket that the depressing political cant of recent weeks has been dispelled by a shared, highbrow national debate on when and how to use the batting powerplay. Of much greater interest to us at the moment than the Anglo American or Standard Bank share price is the state of Imran Tahir’s finger.
Which brings me elegantly to the topic of today’s discourse: Hashim Amla. The bearded one has a curiously old-fashioned habit, one that was in evidence again on Sunday. When he gives a snick, Amla tucks his bat under his arm and walks off the field. He doesn’t wait for the umpire. Unlike other professionals who walk only “when the bus breaks down”, Amla walks because he knows he is out. Because he was brought up that way.
The snickometer is not in use at this World Cup. Did the umpire know that Amla had got the faintest of touches to MS Dhoni? Was Dhoni convinced? We will never know. But Amla knew. And he walked.
The thing about snicks is that, even when played with a soggy tennis ball, if you hit the thing you know you’re out. Instantly. The umpires might not be sure, even the catcher can be uncertain but the batsman knows for sure.
Four years ago I found myself at the Cricket World Cup. A week in Grenada and another in Barbados following the Proteas and swimming on palm-fringed beaches was everything it had been cracked up to be, the holiday of a lifetime – which is why I’m a bit grumpy: that I’m not in India right now.
Before the last World Cup I was told by several travel agents that a fortnight in the Caribbean would set me back at least R60000. This was depressing news: journalists can’t afford cars, let alone a beach holiday. With careful planning – none of which involved a travel agent – I had the said holiday of a lifetime, lived a brief Peter Stuyvesant/Mainstay existence and came home with loose change from half the quoted amount. I also played plenty of beach cricket – which is how I know about snicks and soggy tennis balls.
Once, on a little palm-fringed bit of atoll I stood my ground after giving a catch to the wicketkeeper. National pride was at stake. There was also the fact that the bowler was a New Zealander. And a girl. And she was bowling underarm. Apart from this one moment of uncharacteristic turpitude, I have lived an almost blameless life.
When Hashim Amla goes out to bat there is a great deal more national pride at stake than in a pick-up game of beach or cake-league cricket. Apart from anything else, this is how this young man earns his crust.
In a world of backhanders and dodgy deals, questionable tendering practices, ruthless profiteering and political skullduggery, where the winner is rewarded regardless of the cost or at whose expense he profits, we have a sportsman of the greatest talent who embodies all that was once noble and good about the Gentleman’s Game.
Amla is a man of profound religious conviction; no one, even the most ardent habitue of Castle Corner, would begrudge him his principled stand on not wearing the team sponsor’s logo. But it is as a walker that he deserves much greater kudos than he gets. Not because he seeks it but because he is a role model in a world sadly lacking in this species.
“This was despite umpire Steve Davis giving the 36-year-old not out.Replays of the incident were inconclusive, which suggests that Davis’s initial decision may not have been overturned had Tendulkar stayed at the crease.”—Did not know that the umpire had given him not out and he still walked inpite of that NOT before the umpires decision like the others (like gilchrist do)
Not sure ive seen many who have wlaked inspite of giving them not out—if thats what sachin did.
IF sachin walk AFTER being given not out, not sure if im in favor of that—just my opinion!!!
U do have a duty to the team as well!
maybe im in a minority here—Dont like Pontings off and onscreen behavior and “naughty boy” antics but dont blame him for waiting for an umpires finger—Cmon u r playing professional sport with high stakes personal and teamwise. ONe cannot sacrifice the team sometimes for the tag of a “walker”!!
Dont think Sachin would have walked in a QF/SF/Final setting—If he does, wont like that at all!!
agree with Alex. There is something you owe to the team as well. What about all the instances where you are unfairly given out? Ponting says thats how I play the game. I wait for the umpire to give me out. I think in the past Sachin has walked against Pakistan in India where nobody was sure what the real verdict was including himself. I cannot recall the details around the incident…maybe somebody has a better memory but some players criticized him for that.
Thanks Pranay..
Thats how a game should be played—-to win!
I bet, sachin will NEVER walk in his nineties!!!! and I have seen on more than one occasion, sachin sticking his ground when a clear sound was heard.
Im his greatest fan, but dont agree with sachin here..cmon guys ===whoever is readind this post——-WHY TO GO FAR—If sachin “walks” in the QF against autralia,and india lose that match—how many will support him—raise your hands—U cant be “selective walker”!!!
Im not supporting pontings brattish on and off field behavior, but feel that there is nothing wrong with waiting for the umpries deciusion. What is NOT acceptable is to react negatively to an umpires adverse decision.
Infact, like pointings candid statement here.
I repeat—cumments welcum—–
cmon guys ===whoever is readind this post——-WHY TO GO FAR—If sachin “walks” in the QF against autralia,and india lose that match—how many will support him—raise your hands/d..ks—U cant be “selective walker”!!!
Shoaib Akhtar recently on the eve of his retirement said that he was never scared of Sachin but Gilchrest and Lara scared the daylights out of him. BULLSHIT, after having being taken for 18 off his first over in the 2003 world cup by Sachin including a six off point he refused to bowl the second over. Akram has gone on record to say this.
I will NEVER ever blame someone for walking. It is like telling the truth. Can never fault it. I would also not castigate someone who doesnt walk. Their choice and cant be blamed. But, there is something old fashioned and charming about walking that I hugely appreciate and goes to the root of why we love sports. Yes, it is about winning but not any cost.
Sachin if you are convinced you are out, feel free to walk. Even in QF/SF or finals. I got your back.
And God save, stars and sportsmen from fickle, insecure, nitpicking, passive agressive fans. I am XYZ’s greatest fan but I find it highly suspicious that when he puts on trousers, he goes left leg first! Pkease give me a break!
“Sachin if you are convinced you are out, feel free to walk. Even in QF/SF or finals. I got your back.”—Thats an absolutely acceptable point of view. Have no qualms with it IF it is consistent.
BUT the problems are—
a)Knowing sachin—he will not “walk” in QF/SF/Finals. ie in satyams words—he will suddenly NOT be convinced if he actrually nicked or not. The man who has scored more runs than the sum total of any two other human beings will not even know if he has nicked or not!!lol
b) Sachin will never walk if he is upto a significant score ie nearing a hundred or even a fifity
c)EVEN if he walks in a) or b), he will not have the backing of most indians esp if india loses the match eventually!!
d) Obviously this “criticism” of sachin has to be taken in perspective and in relation to some other big blunders of icons). Here we are comparing by the yardsticks of sachin not shoaib akhtar or shakti kapoor or even the tainted pak betting trio!
e) Being the greatest fan of either sachin or bachchan have never blinded me to their inevitable failings (which are relatively minor compared to some other icons who call themselves “king” and show ladies what they “look like from the inside”)
f) AT the end, when we are even discussing sachins or bachchans realtively minor issues (but still visible to the discerning and unbiased) —I do think about another species—
The types of whom write lengthy annals to prop up srk and diss bachchan and aamir by various logic. Why are those (esp some females like sm and oldgold) quite at the recent SRK humiliathon on india today conclave about “showing a lady how he is from inside”.
Name me one male from india or abroad who said THAT in india to an indian FEMALE reporter and got away so cleanly. There is something wrong not only in srk but moreso in the silent appreciating majority. Obviousl the types like sm are biased and there are valid reasons for that ( wont delve into those here but which are obvious to the discerning) but what about the other “unbiased” ones. Wtf …
Think ive beaten everyone by the ” length” of this satyamesque post!
Hope it creates some action!lol
Am not sure what action your post can create. Innuendoes, unsubstantiated claims of knowledge and barbs under the pretense of being unbiased hardly lead to meaningful discussion.
There are no “claims to knowledge” here!!!
Its personal choice and perception and each to his/her own, i think.
In this particular scenario, the question was —-If sachin walks at a crucial stage of the upcoming QF/SF/Final and india loses the match—how many (indian supporters) will support sachins “honesty”.
While some like rajen will still support him, I am honest enuf to state that i will have issues will that.
And im reasonably confident that majority of supporters (not all) will have issues.
Having said that—- i also added that sachin will NOT walk in a crucial stage or when nearing a fifty or hundred—Thats my impression, not a “claim to knowledge” !!
However the obvious debate again should not be missed here. There ar epeople who indulge in chucking, betting, throwing matches etc. Here we are talking of sachins “walking voluntarily”—dont think this amounts to being anti sachin—As i said here, sachin is being compared to his own v impeccable, unmatched standards off/on field !!
February 17, 2011 at 11:14 AM
Is it just me or is there a distinct lack of buzz surrounding this world cup?
February 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM
I don’t follow these things as closely as I once used to so it’s hard for me to tell but I suspect that the IPL is where the real action is these days. Obviously things will heat up very quickly once the matches begin. But yeah it might not have the special status it once had because there’s just too much else going on. The new Outlook is all about the VC including a piece by Mukul Kesavan which is not surprisingly the most interesting of the pieces and gets to the issue you raise as well. He also talks about how there is that sense of Sachin being owed one along with everything else. Obviously everyone wants India to win but Sachin’s an important part of the conversation. I wish him to have this among his accomplishments as well but in team sports no player no matter how big can bring it about. So we’ll just have to watch him and of course the team.
February 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM
satyam,so we are supposed to discuss all cricket related stuff here? i thot u were going to create SB for it.
February 17, 2011 at 11:33 AM
if there is a way to create a SB with some censorship I’ll do so but I don’t think that’s possible. I can create one restricted to only the members here but that defeats the purpose.
February 17, 2011 at 12:40 PM
I guess the opening ceremony is already over!
This Saturday, get ready to put your life in limbo. The “grudge” match between India and Bangladesh should be a whole lot of fun. Bangladesh is a much better team now. Shakib Ul Hasan, Bangladesh’s captain, currently tops the ICC ODI all rounders list. The diminutive opener, Tamim Iqbal, has had a breakout year only recently. Shehriar Nafees is an exciting prospect to watch, and last but not the least, the match is scheduled to be held in Bangladesh. With plenty of crowd support and help from local conditions (Bangladeshi pitches have traditionally been slow turners), it’s not going to be a cakewalk for India.
I’ll try to chip in with my “live” on-the-fly comments once the match gets underway. Expect Rooney, Qalandar, Satyam and others to be here as well!
February 17, 2011 at 12:55 PM
Since my request for a chat box didn’t materialize, I’m going to be a little more demanding this time. It’s probably safe to assume that not many females will be following this particular thread, so I request the use of words like “ch….a” and “g…u” to be allowed for the full duration of the WC!
February 17, 2011 at 1:01 PM
LOL, you assume too much. Maybe many females are ok with those words! Will look into the chatbox thing, haven’t had a chance yet.
February 17, 2011 at 1:15 PM
“LOL, you assume too much. Maybe many females are ok with those words!”
LOL saket have u ever met mumbaiyan chicks
ask Q he might say better 
February 17, 2011 at 2:01 PM
I’ve met a few Delhi girls. Don’t mean to be presumptuous or anything, but they’d put girls from anywhere else to shame!
February 17, 2011 at 12:58 PM
look forward to it Saket.. too bad you won’t be here the whole time or you could have taken over the cricket proceedings for the month.
February 17, 2011 at 1:14 PM
oh dude! sorry… dont know how much i would comment, during world cup, but expect me too join after MARCH 6TH… as i have to study only 20 subjects for my Bar Exam….
just when i thought i wont have exms during world cup.. man proposes god diposes!
February 17, 2011 at 1:45 PM
the opening ceromony was worst ever
this made kalmadi and cwg looks like divine
all those rickshaw pulling wtf
February 18, 2011 at 12:07 AM
From cricinfo:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/501499.html
Personally I liked the rickshaws! Nice poulist touch…
February 17, 2011 at 1:56 PM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/travel/content/site/travel/gallery/485133.html?city=delhi&im=123740
February 17, 2011 at 2:11 PM
Munna aap ne Dilli kee yaadein taaza kar di!
Contra Satyam’s opinion on the recent priviliging of Delhi, I’d like to see more of Delhi in Hindi cinema. Sure, the streets are never too safe, the inhabitants are mostly abrasive and aggressive, but having spent a considerable amount of time in Delhi (the weather sucks BTW, though not so much as Mumbai!), I’ve kind of fallen in love with its culture. The explosive mix of Punjabi, UP and Jatt ethnicities is quite unique to the city.
I’m not into Delhi because it’s a “happening” city, but more because I always felt quite alive spending time in Lajpat Nagar, CP, Palika Bazaar, Nehru Place etc — the middle class outing joints. And the food in Delhi is just heavenly!
February 17, 2011 at 2:34 PM
I don’t have anything against Delhi (though the city’s cultural mix is not necessarily most to my taste) but yes I resent so much Delhi in films because the proper site of Hindi film mythologization has always been Bombay. This would be merely regrettable if it were only about a switch of places but as with all other such things there is usually a political choice attached. Bombay is returning very gradually in some ways but it just vanished in the 90s except in RGV’s films. And Delhi has become the ideal (or perhaps the only) Indian city for the sort of cinematic tourism otherwise known as Bollywood! On the one hand you get the monuments and the glamor associated with them but on the other you also get the re-imagining of the ‘rooted’ and this in turn happens in very selective fashion. So the old city becomes the authentic ‘heart’ of the nation state but presented in most of these films as cultural exotica. The vibrancy that is then derived from such sites comes across as ‘charming’ and ‘fun’ and so on and even the darker side of this experience is presented in very sanitized terms (OLLO for example). If this is the extent of that ‘other side of India’ we can all happily live with it. So on one side India Gate, on the other these delightful types who seem to be having a ball in their downmarket surrounding! Delhi is put ‘on view’ in these films one way or the other. These days some of this happens with Bombay too. The city has been absent for so long that today the temptation for anyone who shoots here is to have the ‘hey I’m shooting in Bombay!’ stance. But this was not the way the city enjoyed its best representations in past decades. Put another way Delhi becomes a kind of ‘consumption’ city for Bollywood’s reconfiguration of Indian space. Of course I’ll take this any day of the week over Switzerland or NY or whatever! But think of a film like Yuva where Calcutta becomes very ‘normal’ in Rathnam’s hands even though he’s a true outsider here. If there were that sort of switch to Delhi I would still miss Bombay but I wouldn’t have a ‘political’ objection to it. In general I think the sign of the ‘Punjabi’ allows Bollywood (and this has been true since the 90s) to indulge in ethnic ‘essentialisation’ without having to deal with the political charge of such a move. In other words, the Punjabis are great, they just want to sing and dance and have a great time. They’re the ‘lively’ natives not interested in the sort of politics that is elsewhere connected with the UP/Bihar badlands and so forth. The ‘Sardar’ has especially been transformed into a cool figure which is quite a remarkable turnaround in brand-name given the problems of the 80s and somewhat beyond! The political charge is therefore ‘effaced’. The only ethnicity vigorously allowed to be so or even encouraged to be so in Bollywood is that of the Punjabi. But it comes at a cost.
February 17, 2011 at 3:20 PM
“I think the sign of the ‘Punjabi’ allows Bollywood (and this has been true since the 90s) to indulge in ethnic ‘essentialisation’ without having to deal with the political charge of such a move. In other words, the Punjabis are great, they just want to sing and dance and have a great time. They’re the ‘lively’ natives not interested in the sort of politics that is elsewhere connected with the UP/Bihar badlands and so forth. The ‘Sardar’ has especially been transformed into a cool figure which is quite a remarkable turnaround in brand-name given the problems of the 80s and somewhat beyond!”
Now this is a valid criticism. The depiction of uber-cool Punjabis enjoying their festivals has certainly worn out its welcome. But at the same time, films like Delhi 6, OLLO, Khosla Ka Ghosla, LSD & Monsoon Wedding illustrate a different part of the equation. They offer a more realistic, authentic and most importantly, inclusive glimpse into the city. Bombay has long been the centre of film culture in India, even if the contemporary directors are happy to look elsewhere for inspiration. Delhi, with its unique history and ethos never quite got the attention it deserved. The National School of Drama, for instance, has been instrumental in producing great talent for Bollywood. And I think it was only a matter of time before one of those guys decided to pay his debt back. If the present environment is receptive in that sense, I don’t see myself complaining!
February 18, 2011 at 12:18 AM
Satyam: I don’t disagree with anything here, in fact there is much I enthusiastically agree with. But there is also a two-way street here: i.e., to the extent that B’wood has ALSO long been the site of relative “inclusion”, i.e. one of the least communal spaces in India (even where it is problematic it has been more inclusive than other spaces), one might say that the city itself has also failed Bollywood in recent decades, hasn’t it? The industry has changed – but perhaps so has the city. The rise of Marathi-centric politics certainly has its positive side (given the historic exclusion of the city’s large Marathi-speaking population from many of its benefits; although the Senas conveniently forget that many of these are themselves “outsiders”, migrants to the city or their descendants, with ties to the city of much more recent vintage than those of many of the communities now derided as outsiders by some), but in some way it has perhaps changed the space the city occupies in the national imagination. Growing up in Dubai it seemed to me only Mumbai among all Indian cities could speak to my aspirations (of course this was because of the films; I had no personal acquaintance with the city at all). For younger Indians growing up across the country, it is less true because, to an extent, the city seems less welcoming to them. Perhaps. I’m not 100% certain of this, but I offer it as one possibility…
February 18, 2011 at 12:20 AM
fair points these… and perhaps I have been guilty of not looking at it from the other side.. it’s quite right to suggest that if ‘Bollywood’ is not worthy of this great city’s history well neither is ‘Mumbai’!
February 17, 2011 at 3:28 PM
Saket—good note baove about delhi.
JUst to add briefly —Loved the recent dibakar banerjee films portrayal of current delhi trends, representations and lingo—-all 3 of his films–khosla, OLLO, LSD hit the right spot—have not seen a better delhi representaiton albeit there is a bit of repetition now and certain ubran milieu of upperclass delhi wallas has been missing till now..
Another self confessed delhi walla—ro mehra whom i otheerwise love, missed the boat in bringing to life –old delhi in D6
Although i have much less personal experience of the walled old delhi, thought his take was a bit fake and test-tube -like..WHat do u feel.
February 17, 2011 at 4:20 PM
Yeah, Dibakar Banerjee’s films “expose” Delhi, and I don’t necessarily mean it in a good way. With each successive film, his portrayal of Delhi has assumed a darker shade. LSD could well be summarized as a trip into the city’s ‘heart of darkness’. But yes, he could be described as an authentic filmmaker. It’ll be interesting to see where he goes from here. Is he committed to becoming more Lynchian in his sensibilities, with Delhi as a fixed backdrop? Or is he willing to change lanes and explore new horizons? I hope it’s the latter, especially after a nightmarish LSD.
I can’t really comment on Delhi6 vis-a-vis its authenticity, because like you, I haven’t seen much of old Delhi. Perhaps you think it’s not authentic enough, because the sets were recreated elsewhere?
February 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM
Among other things—-Coming back to the basics—WHo are the likely teams i the semi final and finals and who will win the cup?
Will be interesting to let everyone commit their choices, before the start of play—saket, whats your take—simple and straight?
February 17, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Not that it’s absolutely certain, but I’d assume at this point that South Africa, Australia, Sri Lanka and India should be in the final four. Pakistan continues to be the proverbial dark horse in the race.
February 17, 2011 at 4:06 PM
Obviously, would want india to win the cup>
BUt dont think India performs v well when the expectations are so high.
Both in 1983 and in the t20 world cup, they started with minimal epxectations.
Its always difficult to pen down one result and hence the question to force one to..
I feel both india, South africa and sri lanka are are currently the best teams—-while all three will be in the final four, the first two wont be in the finals!
Australia, england or pakistan will face srilanka in the final and Sri Lanka will lift the cup….
OOOh—so difficult to commit to one stance====lets hope im woring for indias sake___but thats what i foresee>
Lets see what others think….
February 17, 2011 at 4:42 PM
I don’t think Sri Lanka is a very good team. But they will play their matches in Sri Lanka. Of all countries that play cricket, SL has the most lopsided home-away record, and the reason for that is simple: their pitches are heavily designed to suit their bowlers.
February 17, 2011 at 4:52 PM
In this series, “Home-away” records is probaly not of much importance esp for india and lanka.
Importantly, some lankan venues are much more suited to SL themselves than even other asian teams. However the indian ones will suit all of the asian teams—if there is that difference now after IPL.
Sri Lanka may not be gr8 man-to-man but as a unit, they are more disciplined, consistent and sans showmanship.
Sri lankas band south african bowling is better than indias.
somtiems the indian bowlers have their day, but one cannot hide under the carpet the fact that other than zaheer and bhajji(who rarely turns the ball)—there are no propler bowlers.
The indian team suffers from the “superstar” malaise—there is hardly a member of the team who does not aspire to be a superstar —if not already is..
When the captain of a team is toying with the idea of flying F16 on the eve of a worldcup, being the onyl speacialist keeper of the team–there is somehign to be said.
The team who should be having the max hunger and have the most to prove/gain seem pakistan and can never be discounted.
Anyhow, saket and others —who will win be in the final and who will win it—plain and simple!
February 17, 2011 at 4:58 PM
I’m not going to answer your last question! I’m a bit superstitious in that respect. But here’s a clue: towards the latter half of the tournament, as the pitches become older, spinners are going to play a huge role. When I say huge, I mean to say, match-defining roles.
Anyways, I have high hopes from R Ashwin. He should start in all games for India. I hope better sense prevails and Yuvraaj is dropped in favor of Raina.
February 17, 2011 at 4:11 PM
delhi at best today is city of migrants( which is the case of now with the emergence of NCR)
in recent times band baaja baarat to captured the essence of north delhi pretty well but its become tad boring to repeatedly see delhi all around in bollywood …. one need variety to represent true india
most of the hindi belt( bunty and bubli, dabang , rajneeti showed that)
marathi touch ( ala vaastav)
a bengali feel( devdas, yuva showed that )
southern flavour and gujrati masala ( with various of priyan , mani or vipulshah movie) have repeatedly showed if you bring variety it will do wonders but there is hardly any consistency
February 17, 2011 at 4:23 PM
On that note, I’d really like to see a hindi film based in Bangalore!
February 17, 2011 at 4:29 PM
talkin about mumbai i still loved how local train as backdrop of romance was beautifully portrayed in saathiya ( though maddy and the southern version was far superior to hindi version)
February 17, 2011 at 4:59 PM
india vs australia final or
australia vs s.a final
australia will once again be the dark house
they have a much weaker team than now in 99 and in 2007 they both their warm up games and went on to win the cup
india, aus and s.a are my top 3 contenders
pakistan may cause an upset or 2 and may reach semis
srilanka will strugle ( no proper paceman and agein murli is ageing warhorse )
February 17, 2011 at 5:03 PM
Yes, the Australian team has always done well in the subcontinent.
That’s the reason why I’ve picked them in my top 4
February 17, 2011 at 5:14 PM
If one has to pick the best team right now, i will say south africa.
But they are chokers in the final stages and there is no doubt about it—dont think they will change.
The way australia lost the warm up against india last week shows the problem they are in–the teams past credentials are not matching their current capabilities.
Wont even put england out of the mix actually.
But again if one has to choose one, Sri Lanka will be the one followed by the sentimental favoirties (and among the top 3 right now anyhow)—india…
The Yuvraaj vs raina is a difficult one—WIll keep both in the running and decide prior to the match to keep them on their toes (esp the former)
While raina is in better form (and state of mind). one cannot keep mercurial people like yuvraaj out either. Obviously, yusuf pathan is in for a few series for me—just on the basis of that one match against SA that india lost ultimately
My patience with sehwag (after SA) is getting lower though..
February 17, 2011 at 5:15 PM
australia is still the world number 1 team in odi
they are doing badly in test but in odi’s they have just thrashed the england and even still they have a pretty good team and i would rather say best pace attack
south africa has got a balanced team
the biggest worry for india is their bowling
srilanka even in batting is to heavily dependent on dilshan , sanga and mahela and even their attack is weaker than india
pakistan may cause an upset or two but they just don’t have inspirational leader like wasim or imran
semifinalist:
india, aus, s.a, sl/pak
February 17, 2011 at 5:22 PM
My final 4 would be India, Australia, Sri Lanka and England. Pakistan are the dark horses. SA will choke (as usual). But these 6 teams are the only ones who on paper can win it I guess. WI and NZ don’t have the players to mount a serious challenge.
India have a tough group. I’d find facing SA, England, WI and Bangladesh tougher than say what the other group favs Australia have ahead of them in Pakistan, SL and NZ.
But the format this time favours the big teams I feel. More games in the first round really gives a team a chance to bounceback. So I would not expect a major casualty in the first round. And I like the fact there are Q/F, S/F and a Final. Its like a good cup format. In fact it would be more exciting if they drew the Q/F’s out of a hat. Seed the top two teams in each group. The idea you could “know” your opponents come the last match in group is sometimes “compromising”.
February 17, 2011 at 5:39 PM
jayshah–hahaha –u seem to have said everything about this world cup, but skillfully evaded the question— what what was being discussed—who will be the one winner in your opinion.
KNow this is hypothetical but will be interesting in hindsight to dig up— who said what at the start…#
and saket—is that photo in your gravatar actually you?
February 18, 2011 at 6:58 AM
My heart says India and my brain says Australia. Australia just know how to win. And they never give up. India on paper are the best side taking into consideration home conditions.
February 17, 2011 at 5:28 PM
good point iffronfire—but u still havent got further than the semifinal lineup to commit to a winner—know it is difficult but thats the “game”.
February 19, 2011 at 7:12 AM
I thought about writing a few comments on the fly, but then I decided to watch Sehwag instead
Great innings! He was practically playing with one leg towards the end. Terrific innings by Kohli too. A century on WC debut. Must be a great feeling…
February 19, 2011 at 7:59 AM
would have loved a sehwag 200!
February 19, 2011 at 8:11 AM
With Appam C….a bowling, even that wouldn’t help! He has given away 35 runs in 2 overs!!
February 19, 2011 at 8:28 AM
Remarkable innings in that he got to 100 in 94 and then just pounded the bowling after that. Far more controlled and of course he has said he wants to bat close to 50 overs and if he continues like this India will be even more formidable. 200 was within sight but I think he’ll need to get to 100 slightly quicker to challenge it.
February 19, 2011 at 7:27 PM
great comment, Jay…
February 19, 2011 at 9:19 PM
I liked how Kohli was middling the ball in clean hits.
February 19, 2011 at 8:56 AM
Mammoth inning from Sehwag.. unbelievable stuff!
February 19, 2011 at 9:40 AM
I dont kno if there are better options but I bought the whole package for $35.99 from PPVCRICKET.COM. Streaming is excellent.
February 19, 2011 at 9:58 AM
doubt that price can be beaten. Does it include the final as well? I only ask because they sometimes have packages where the semi-finals and the final are provided at an extra charge.
February 19, 2011 at 11:59 AM
thanks dude!! that seems like a great deal.
February 19, 2011 at 7:25 PM
That’s a great deal!
February 20, 2011 at 8:09 AM
You guys have to pay a fair bit to watch cricket? Is it always a PPV deal in the US?
February 20, 2011 at 8:26 AM
Not all cricket if you are one of the Dish network subscribers and select one of the sports packages that includes cricket. But you still have to pay for the WC. If you are a regular cable subscriber you don’t get any cricket and have to pay for everything and not everything is available. It’s a missing civilizational impulse in America when it comes to cricket!
February 20, 2011 at 9:23 AM
ROFL
February 20, 2011 at 9:42 AM
Incidentally, and for anyone who’s interested, this was a fine novel on post-9/11 America that also had a quirky game (cricket in America!) as an important part of the story:
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2008/05/26/080526crbo_books_wood
February 19, 2011 at 9:44 AM
Saw the match till sehwags 50: missed his late blitz– hope he has not injured himself for this less crucial match– good to get averages and stroke rAte etc…
Incidetally if I’m not mistaken, bang Desh have won 7 plot of their last 10 one days– better than any other team.
Just caught bang innings— irrespective of indias impels ding win today, what should not be missed is the lack of penetration and menacing
bowling. Not one bowlers fits that bill.
The way bang are dealing with the indian bowling confirms what I have always said . Indias bowling attack is not even in the top4 of the world in sum total. Even on scoring 370 against bang , u never really know if they will restrict bang—- pathetic
February 19, 2011 at 9:54 AM
Bangladesh 170/2 in 39 overs. Obviously india will win most likely. But what’s revealing is not the result. Sreesanth — th opening pacer is getting and repaid and none of the other bowlers have penetration!
this one problem have in the past bad probably in this cup, will hold india back.
February 19, 2011 at 10:00 AM
yes agreed and this is where you get into a problem with a team like Aus because you can have 330 on the board and they’ll get there!
February 19, 2011 at 7:30 PM
Yeah, I agree the bowling is a worry. At the same time, this worry is also temporary. After half the WC is over, the pitches will open up and spin will play a huge role in deciding the outcome of the match. Even part timers like Yuvraj & Yusuf will not only “contain,” but will also pick up wickets.
February 19, 2011 at 8:13 PM
The bowlers count a lot more in a semi-final or final situation.. even if one can get by otherwise.. I think it was Imran Khan who once said that attacking batsmen find it harder to prosper in WC finals because bowlers usually bowl according to a plan far more in these big games.
February 19, 2011 at 10:43 AM
Bowling is still Big worry
February 19, 2011 at 10:45 AM
Parveen kumar is very street smart bowler as far as shorter version is concerned. his injury will hurt? how much only time will tell..
February 19, 2011 at 11:30 AM
THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE A STICKY AT THE TOP TILL THE WORLD CUP IS GOING ON.
February 19, 2011 at 11:44 AM
will keep putting it on or near the top. Don’t want to do a sticky because I’ve heard of some wordpress glitches where when you decide to ‘unstick’ it it doesn’t work.
February 19, 2011 at 12:21 PM
Thx. That should be fine.
February 19, 2011 at 9:31 PM
BTW your favourite movie MNIK is on Netflix Instant.
February 19, 2011 at 10:25 PM
Rajen, what luck!
February 19, 2011 at 2:20 PM
“From cricinfo:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/501499.html
Personally I liked the rickshaws! Nice poulist touch…”
offtopic and sorry for late reply
reason is simple its a man pulling the rickshaw and its not a 3 wheeler
in kolkate human rights and other are fightin against this inhuman behavious and in international elite it showcased you as 3rd world country
no offence
February 20, 2011 at 12:11 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/Dont-neglect-your-wife-this-World-Cup-Akshay/articleshow/7527526.cms
February 20, 2011 at 8:31 AM
‘Running Sachin out was a mistake, I thought’
February 20, 2011 at 11:31 PM
this thread shud be at the top,satyam.till WC end.
February 21, 2011 at 12:13 AM
yes will keep updating it from time to time and specially when India play..
February 21, 2011 at 9:47 AM
australia played bad today.it was just zim and they were over-cautious in first 15 overs with just 28 runs in first 10 overs.in 50 overs,they cud only manage 263 runs! Pathetic! luckily,zim batting is very poor so Aus will win this one.someone like bangla wud hv won this match chasing against aus.
February 21, 2011 at 12:39 PM
well amazing statistics to boot
australia’s 24th consecutive win in world cup
February 23, 2011 at 2:51 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/cricket-world-cup-2011/off-the-field/South-Africa-bowling-coach-names-dog-after-Sachin/articleshow/7549688.cms
Reminds me of another hero naming his dog after a “king”
February 23, 2011 at 4:00 PM
The day Indian bowlers allowed bangladesh to socre nearly 300, batting second chasing 370 odd (out of which sehwag alone scored 175)—
I have reluctantly taken india out of one of the favorites to win the cup. U can reach quarters or evens semis but difficult to go beyond that with this sort of bowling.
Agree with what punter ponting said about this!
Indias only hope is that it has some mercurial matchwinner batsmen who can win a key match, even single handedly—pathan has been added to sehwag & yuvraaj .
But still feel it may be beyond these guys with the home pressure with one of the weakest bowling attacks—when bhajji is someones best bowler…..
February 26, 2011 at 12:55 PM
Srilanka defeated on their home ground the first time in wc history, this pakistan side is extremely dangerous and the only weak link is the fielding. Afridi is undoubtedly the best odi spinner and perhaps the best odi bowler in odis from the last three years, amazing figures in the last three years with an average of 21.8. The new mild shoaib akhtar and the crafty middle order of younis and misbah has made pakistan one of the favorites.
February 26, 2011 at 2:01 PM
the key now is for the players to not be overly confident. they haven’t done squat yet. they need to be focused against the likes of canada, zimbawe and new zealand. I think we still don’t have enough to beat Aussie, India or South Africa. but if somehow we reach the semi finals..that would be a great accomplishment for this young team. fielding is extremely poor and has been the downfall for us for many years. it was a great win against Sri Lanka but yet i still thought we made it hard on ourselves more than it should’ve been.
February 26, 2011 at 2:19 PM
Agree.
In semifinal or finals, the situation becums different.
Thats where australia comes into own and leaves behind the likes of india, sa, SL, Pak,,,,
Each and every player is superbly analysed. Plans are made by every team but with the confidence and ruthlessness of aussies, the percentage of plan implementaion is maximum.
Indian bowling is too weak to withstand those sort of pressures in s/f or finals
February 26, 2011 at 2:06 PM
Pakistan has officially been the most unpredictable team in world cricket.
ON their day, any team can be beaten–lots of natural talent.
Still cannot get over the fact that none of their players can be consistently “clean”. For eg Salman butt was given a blank cheque and made the captain—-shocking that one can fix games at such a juncture…
February 26, 2011 at 2:14 PM
if we still had salman butt, Amir and Asif i would’ve picked us to be a favorite in this world cup. those players should be ashamed of what they did to themselves and most importantly to what they did to their country. Mohammad Amir frustrates me because he is young and still is acting like he didnt do anything wrong.
February 26, 2011 at 6:37 PM
Agree about Mohd amir—Recently saw him in the UK news being taken to court —He looked totally unaffected, infact cheerful and sporting latest high-maintenance hairstyles.
The problem with pakistani management is that they should have been strict with these offences long time back—-there was a tendency of hiding things under the carpet (or sharing the booty)
Still do not know how bob woolmer died!
“Shady” is the word when it comes to this team….(although they are undoubtedly v talented)
February 26, 2011 at 6:51 PM
shady…corrupted…mismanaged…and selfish…just some of the words that come to my mind when i think about the PCB. They have destroyed Pakistani Cricket. The government shares the blame also. It is frustrating as a Pakistani cricket fan. Our bowling would be dynamic if they had proper people working at the PCB(Imran Khan comes to mind).
February 27, 2011 at 7:17 AM
Sachin has had a good start to the tournament. He started off well in the first match also but was of course run out by Sehwag.
Interestingly this is only his second one day century against Eng.
February 27, 2011 at 7:20 AM
If either Sehwag or Sachin can keep producing like this India should be fine throughout the tournament. Except of course against an Australia which can still get to a 300 plus total. Some other teams can as well but not as consistently as Aus.
February 27, 2011 at 7:48 AM
wish one of Dhoni, Yuvraj or especially Pathan had stuck around a bit longer. 350 would have been a done deal.
February 27, 2011 at 8:14 AM
Yea I feel India could have easily got 350 here if one of the middle/lower order batsmen fired. Still India will win 99 times out of 100 if they hit 340 odd plus in every match! And England are a good bowling unit so this was a good score.
February 27, 2011 at 8:15 AM
yes this is almost certainly a winning score against Eng and as you said in most other situations too..
February 27, 2011 at 10:48 AM
Darn we might have to eat our words the way Eng are going currently.. again the bowling turns out to be India’s Achilles’ heel.
February 27, 2011 at 10:50 AM
Its been a terrible performance in this innings. Must say Bell should be out with that LBW decision. Also India have had two balls that seemed to have taken a nick but they have not appealed. But overall England seem to be doing this so easily.
February 27, 2011 at 11:13 AM
One cant wish/hope for more runs after making 339. The way we have bowled any target might be hard to defend. Very shabby bowling performance.
February 27, 2011 at 11:30 AM
bit of a chance now.. they need about 8 runs per over in the last 7 overs. If they can somehow get a couple of economical overs they should be ok.
February 27, 2011 at 7:41 AM
Tendulkar gets record 5th Cup hundred
Last updated on: February 27, 2011 17:52 IST
Sachin Tendulkar reached another milestone on Sunday. He became the highest century-maker in World Cup history after scoring his fifth hundred in the prestigious event.
The 37-year-old reached the landmark during the Group B clash against England [ Images ] when he glanced burly paceman Tim Bresnan [ Images ] for a boundary towards the fine leg region off the first delivery of the 35th over.
Sachin Tendulkar celebrates after getting to 100It was his 47th ODI century and 98th overall.
Former India [ Images ] captain Sourav Ganguly [ Images ], current Australia [ Images ] captain Ricky Ponting [ Images ] and his former teammate Mark Waugh [ Images ] have all scored four World Cup hundreds.
With Ganguly and Waugh retired, it is only Ponting who has a chance to match or surpass Tendulkar.
Tendulkar scored 120 runs from 115 balls and the knock was adorned with five sixes and 10 fours.
Playing his sixth World Cup, he also holds the records for most runs and most half-centuries in the flagship event of the ICC [ Images ].
He has accumulated 1944 runs in 38 matches and scored 13 fifties so far. Ponting follows with 1577 runs in 41 matches.
Ganguly is the only other Indian who has scored more than one thousand runs in World Cup matches.
He scored 1006 runs in 21 matches and stands 11th in the list of highest run scorers in the World Cup.
During the course of his innings, Tendukar shared a magnificent 134-run partnership with for the second wicket with Gautam Gambhir [ Images ], who scored 51 runs.
February 27, 2011 at 11:17 AM
Indias bowling lineup is a joke and its laughable if anyone here blames that lbw shout for indias loss. The bowling lineup is awful and someone said here that englands bowling is good which is again false, aus, sa and pak have a much superior bowling lineup and they can easily restrict india to 300.
Things not looking too good for india, looks like sachins dream will remain a dream
February 27, 2011 at 11:19 AM
heck, even if india scored 360 england wouldve chased it easily, england doesnt even require the powerplay for hitting, they’re just taking it cause they would have to eventually
February 27, 2011 at 11:39 AM
not really, three wickets have fallen very quickly. I think India should pull this off. India’s bowling is definitely a vulnerability but they’re still the second highest ranked one day team currently behind Aus. and they’ve done very well in this format over the last couple of years or so.
It’s 291/6 at the moment in 43.3. Looks safe. would be surprised if Eng had serious production at the tail end.
India have found ways to win in the last couple of years which is what counts in these tournaments. either you have an overwhelmingly strong team like Aus or WI (in early tournaments) or those that can really surprise (India or Pak or SL in their wins). The teams that are just good without the hustle don’t usually win. Hence SA!
February 27, 2011 at 11:44 AM
Four over, 43 runs, four wickets.
THIS WILL GO TO THE WIRE.
February 27, 2011 at 12:06 PM
talk about going to the wire! I’m being made to eat my words today!
India should have won this..
February 27, 2011 at 12:12 PM
They should have won it twice. They had 338 on the board – they should have won it. And when England needed 29 off 12 they should have won it. England should have won it when Bell was at the crease. England were favs at that point by a canter.
February 27, 2011 at 12:06 PM
Cracking match … India did well to comeback there at the end. Fair result in the end. Think India got more thinking to do though.
February 27, 2011 at 12:17 PM
yes agreed that given their overall performance the result was certainly ‘fair’!
February 27, 2011 at 12:20 PM
People will find plenty to blame. The short run, fielding lapses, Idnia’s middle order etc. But , in the end it cones down to the ability or the lack there of to defend a total of 338. And, that has to be India’s concern.
It is like the Knicks who are giving up 106 points a game. There is no defense. Even Cavs were able to beat them. Same with India. They can have mammoth totals but if the bowling is non-existent, it is pointless.
February 27, 2011 at 12:21 PM
and this was illustrated in the Bangladesh match as well..
February 27, 2011 at 12:23 PM
Very true. They need to address this. Either go with the extra bowler or go with 3 seamers. 2 seamers was too shy here and really take out Harbhajan and Khan and every bowler whether he is part time, full time, spinner, seamer is going for runs.
Dhoni was right in his post match comments. India can’t bank on scoring 338 or more every match.
February 27, 2011 at 12:21 PM
india’s terrible bowling performance was somewhat expected.. But its India’s lower middle order that failed badly.. the last few wickets were a joke.. the tailenders just threw away the wickets thinking they have a winning total at their hand.. the last couple of runouts were laugh-worthy..
its doing foolish things like these that cost India the match..
February 27, 2011 at 12:27 PM
WOW what a game congrats to both teams but am sooo proud of Eng.
btw how costly was bajjis drop catch of strauss……….
agree with rajen. The bottom line is india SHOULD have been able to defend such a big total.
February 27, 2011 at 1:19 PM
Just pasting my old comments on indias bowling and feel nothing much is more to add after today–
“alex adams Says:
February 23, 2011 at 4:00 PM
The day Indian bowlers allowed bangladesh to socre nearly 300, batting second chasing 370 odd (out of which sehwag alone scored 175)—
I have reluctantly taken india out of one of the favorites to win the cup. U can reach quarters or evens semis but difficult to go beyond that with this sort of bowling.”
February 27, 2011 at 2:18 PM
I don’t think it is as doom and gloom as that. India have won plenty of onedayers against the best sides and especially at home. They just have to play better and get things right. They are more than capable of winning the WC, a better bowling unit and they would be clear favs. The good thing about this WC is there is no standout side. Every team has a weakness. Some outfits are well rounded like SA and SL where all there 3 skills are quite good but they don’t have a better batting side than India. India’s flaw is a poor bowling unit vs. these sides. So it boils down to whether an exceptionally good batting order can beat a good batting/bowling unit.
The other important factor is luck. Thankfully Dhoni is starting to win some tosses now! No team that win somethings does it with bad luck!
February 28, 2011 at 10:12 AM
oh i just saw u said the same thing alex!
February 27, 2011 at 2:45 PM
I did not want either team to win and my wish was granted. Because both teams had lots of weaknesses which a win would have covered up. This tie will make them play a more tight game where runs will not be gifted so easily. The last over was a treat worth than any win. Thrilling and keeping the suspense till the end.
February 27, 2011 at 3:56 PM
Bangladesh scored 281 (i think) and now Eng 338. India are performing exceptionally well laregly due to their immense batting lineup. They have match winners in abundance but their bowling is by far the weakest amongst all the other top teams.
Lets see (just my own thoughts)
1. Aus have better bowling attack
2. Eng have better bowling atack (even though they were murdered today)
3. SL have better attack and their spinners are also better
4. SA have a better bowling attack and heck their spinners did better than their seamers in the opener
5. Pak have a solid bowling attack with only abdul razzaq as the weaklink. They have the most inform wicket taker in Afridi on fire and Gul who is amonsgt the best finishers. Just hope Akhtar continues to bowl well.
Now India (except Zaheer Khan who is a world class operator) who do they have really. Bajji is good yes but I can see the top teams really going after him especially SL and Pak. Unfortunately chawla who I saw a bit in IPL (i only watched their games to see Preity Zinta lol) bowls far too many boundary balls. He will ball some beautys but then get hit out of the park and more ofte than not its the latter. Munaf is decent but teams once they’ve settled will just milk him for runs. I can easily see teams hit 6 singles against him without taking any risks. So who else do they have…. sreesanth or nehra ?
But hey on the positive side Yuvi came into a bit of form today and the batting of India still looks so bloody strong.
On a further note NZ most probably will finsih fourth in group A and am sure most teams in group B will prefer to play them than the likes of Aus, Pak and SL. So coming first in group B could be potentially be very important and todays result must have left a big smile on the faces of the SA camp.
February 28, 2011 at 8:51 AM
saying india has the best batting lineup doesn’t equal things out with the opposition because it doesn’t. If England can score 338 against india and bangladesh 281, aussies or safricans can easily score around 350-360 and there’s no way india can score that much against sides like aus, sa, sri and pak.
England bowled around 5 yorkers in their entire innings to indian batsmen and if compare it to bowling lineups like pakistan umar gul can bowl 5 yorkers in an over.
February 28, 2011 at 9:00 AM
But it always seems like that. Bangladesh too got a big enough total vs India but didn’t win. And Eng drew it (one would think that they’d win easily if Bangladesh put up 281 on the board) and to be honest many other days India would have won. again you’re either forgetting or choosing to ignore that India is the second highest ranked one day time in the world right and they’ve won in some pretty interesting situations over the last couple of years. All of this doesn’t mean they’re winning the WC. But these early matches aren’t the greatest predictors anyway. In many tournaments teams get hot in the second half. Also sometimes the most favored teams don’t really win. Pakistan couldn’t get beyond the semi-finals in ’97. Even in ’92 they suddenly got hot later, in the first half they had rather mixed results. They had the bowling in both tournaments. And of course since then they’ve never won despite usually being among the better bowling sides. How many tournaments has SA won with great bowling?! Yes the Indian bowling has to do a lot lot better, no doubt about it but hey it’s only two games! And actually if you think about it yesterday after Eng seemed to be really coasting to a win it was precisely the bowlers who caused a collapse later.
I’m hardly someone who thinks that India getting to the final is a given. But hey let’s try to be a little less nationalistic and a little more analytic here! Listening to you one would have the sense that other than Holland everyone’s going to get the better of India!
February 28, 2011 at 8:53 AM
saying india has the best batting lineup doesn’t equal things out with the opposition because it doesn’t. If England can score 338 against india and bangladesh 281, aussies or safricans can easily score around 350-360 and there’s no way india can score that much against sides like aus, sa, sri and pak.
England bowled around 5 yorkers in their entire innings to indian batsmen and if compare it to bowling lineups like pakistan umar gul can bowl 5 yorkers in an over, so there’s no way india can score 320+ against other bowlings teams and even if they do other teams will be able to chase it, england has a weak middle order with morgan, teams like aus, sa and pakistans strength is their middle order, look at pakistan, their middle order consists of younis, misbah, akmal, afridi and razzak coming in at no. 8!
February 28, 2011 at 9:07 AM
Pakistan are 6th in the current ODI rankings! This doesn’t mean they’ll do badly in the tournament, I think they’re usually dangerous in the WC. And India can certainly not live upto their numbers. But the point I’m making is that the same team with the same bowling is at # 2 and Pakistan with their bowling are at # 6. How did that happen?
February 28, 2011 at 11:54 AM
Precisely. Sure India’s bowling is a bit poor but they are still #2 in the world and the #1 test team. So they have proven over time to be a good team.
I would be a bit worried for the Indian team but not scared or think they have no chance. The world cup is not won or lost in the first two games. If it was Australia would not have won the 99 WC! It’s always about momentum and peaking at the right time, luck and timing. Look at Mumbai Indians, they were pretty much the best team throughout the last IPL but they lost the final. In knockout games a lot can happen. India will get to the Q/Fs and then one can see.
Put it this way, its probably very true that Pakistan for the past 20 years have had a better bowling attack then India overall. Still India have not lost to them in a WC. Talent/skill is important, but also luck, courage, playing under pressure helps too. Look at the 2003 WC. Pakistan had Waqar, Akram, Shoaib Akhtar, Afridi, Razzaq vs. Khan, Nehra, Srinath, Kumble and part timers. I know which bowling attack is better on paper there! And India made short work of chasing 273 in a crunch tie with a few overs left to spare.
Sure Australia/SA have better bowling attacks. And the theory they will restrict India is true. But the prediction logically should not stop there. If India have the best batting line-up they will surely ensure SA/Australia chase more than they have to against any other team. One can’t just assume one way traffic.
And Pakistan well they are unpredictable. And with the extra knock-out round of Q/F they will need 3 straight good matches to win the WC. They usually have a couple of good ones , a bad one, a good one etc! SA will have the odd match where they can’t add up their totals and instead of chasing 330 they were chasing 329 and they lose by 1 run or D/L screws them over.
The best teams in WC’s in recent history are SL and Australia. Australia reaching the last 4 finals and SL 2 of the last 4. They on paper have the good balance and good temperament. A betting man would put money on them if they had to put their house on it. Just cos they have historical success and today are very good one day teams.
February 28, 2011 at 12:24 PM
great set of points all round and comprehensively argued…
February 28, 2011 at 12:34 PM
well argued as Satyam says.
March 2, 2011 at 3:10 AM
If the Pakistani team wasn’t so corrupt they would be number 1! They are always the dangerous team…and the team I would be most worried about!
February 28, 2011 at 10:10 AM
Indian bowling is attack is pathetic to say the least.Not that it has been great or so ever.In WC 2003,it was somewhat better but it was terribly exposed in final.Aus,Sri,Pak and SA have better bowling attacks.But Indian batting is doing great but how many times will they score 300+?Just batting wont take India beyond Quarter final.
February 28, 2011 at 10:37 AM
I think zaheer bowls well in the last overs.so he should be brought into the attack late in the innings.Nehra,if fit,should open the bowling with munaf.I prefer ashwin to chawla among spinners.
February 28, 2011 at 1:28 PM
I have bought the pay per view package from Dish Network. One added attraction this time is that the telecast is in HD and has to be seen to be believed. Cricket (espcially world cup cricket) in HD is a treat to watch espeically on a big screen. Eagerly looking forward to the South Africa and West Indies matches.
March 1, 2011 at 5:02 PM
Shane Warne tweeted before the eng india game that it’s fixed and is going to be a tie, surprise surprise, tie it was!
Waddup ICC!
March 1, 2011 at 5:28 PM
I read his tweets somewhere. He predicted a close game and a tie but didnt claim it was fixed. But, its still eerie.
March 1, 2011 at 5:31 PM
This is what he tweeted:
“Looking forward to the game between India and England today should be a cracker. My prediction – a tie!”
Soon after the thriller, Warne posted another tweet in which he said, “Before u think there was something untoward re prediction of a tie, thought it was going to be a cracker – tie was tongue in cheek – but right.”
March 1, 2011 at 10:19 PM
Is it fixed or scripted?
March 2, 2011 at 11:09 AM
banglore was flattest especially in 2nd half where it became dead (unlike the warm up pitch which was low scoring and india beat aussies on that)
look around even ireland may beat eng today by batting 2nd
india is to good a site (for close to 2-3 years) and so far against 2 test playing nation they haven’t lost and have beaten aussies in warm up
btw it was a good warm up call for them as they look complascent.. the game they should have won …
though real threat is still aussies and s.a
india have to beat s.a to make an easy way to semis by playing against nz
March 2, 2011 at 11:18 AM
*to good a side*
aussies have the best pace attack and s.a the most balanced one
sl attack will struggle against top team apart from malinga in test
in quarters they have to move out and their attack is still the spin oriented attack suited more to their home and still untested
pakistan as i said earlier may cause a upset or two which they did but their attack is still not tested
gul and akhtar are always circumspect against agressive batters though afridi is good but against india won’t be a prob
india has zaheer and bhajji but its high time they have to play sree though people may call for nehra who haven’t played a game still but sree is a match winner on its time (especially when he has allready won you 2 test abroad and some odi’s on his own)
ashwin deserves a place who is far more talented than piyush and a better batsman to … raina is an another useful choice as he is an useful bowler
March 2, 2011 at 12:20 PM
india and eng are in danger of going of the tournament in the first round now that ireland has beaten eng, if england loses again westindies or sa they’ll be out and if india loses again sa and windies they’ll be out
March 2, 2011 at 12:45 PM
yes the Irish beat Pakistan last time around and this time they’ve stunned Eng.
don’t believe India will lose twice.. whereas Eng could well lose to SA and seal their fate.
March 2, 2011 at 12:51 PM
Mithun said in a recent DID episode that ‘doosro ki picture flop hone se apni hit nahin hoti’. Similarly India losing in the WC is not going to make Pak win it!
March 2, 2011 at 1:39 PM
“india and eng are in danger of going of the tournament in the first round now that ireland has beaten eng, if england loses again westindies or sa they’ll be out and if india loses again sa and windies they’ll be out”
ya like going in circle like ireland lost to bangladesh and beat englishman today
remember last time they knocked out pakistan to and even pakistan can go out and so do any other team
“Mithun said in a recent DID episode that ‘doosro ki picture flop hone se apni hit nahin hoti’. Similarly India losing in the WC is not going to make Pak win it!”
ha ha thanks for giving remainder about that parson’s nationality which is appearent from post
well roam around on indian site and even comment on indian film industry and its actor and still throw venom about india is a beloved trait of some of people of our western neighbours but they they have to be more bothered how one cricket playing south asian country is lost out and how others souh asian nations are hosting this tournament without any fuss
this in india which on last 2 years has sucessfully hosted common wealth , hockey world cup , cricket world cup , davis cup etc (despite being surrounded by failed neighbour and threats ) and in case of some other country even street teams are not willing to go out
win or loss … world cup will be beneficial to india only in many ways
March 2, 2011 at 1:49 PM
and to be clear I don’t have a problem with any nationality, Pakistani or otherwise. I was commenting on a certain attitude where the ‘analysis’ seemed to be about little more than a political stance.
and yes I do agree with you that if one has that attitude I don’t know how one can in good conscience be a consumer of Indian cinema.
March 2, 2011 at 2:00 PM
i’ve seemed to caused a bit of indigestion from my comments here from what i wanted to be a peaceful and logical comment. How is me saying that india AND england might be in the danger of going out of the tournament a political comment?
SA can easily beat india anyday and with the windies batting lineup of gayle bravo and sarwan and pollard against indian bowling lineup the match will be well contested, mentioning pakistan in your hateful posts only shows your disquietude
March 2, 2011 at 2:04 PM
Can anyone please explain to me how is saying that india and england are in danger of going out of the wc throwing venom about india? Seriously?
March 2, 2011 at 2:33 PM
I’m not just referring to today’s comment but a whole serious of comments on previous occasions. And I didn’t use words like ‘venom’. Let’s not get so melodramatic.
March 2, 2011 at 2:48 PM
and again to be absolutely clear you have every right to support whatever team you like and wish for the rival team to lose. All sports fans have this prerogative. However if one is analyzing things even in the most minimal, loose sense of the word shouldn’t one account for all the facts? Just the other day I responded to one of your comments by saying that India was currently ranked # 2 among one day teams and Pakistan was ranked # 6. Shouldn’t you account for this when you keep saying that Indian bowling is poor or weak (which by the way no one disagrees with)? The point I’m trying to make is that one can a)adopt partisan positions and only work according to these positions in a discussion b)one can still be a partisan but for the purposes of a debate adopt some sense of ‘fairness’
But yes to the extent that I find people who are anti-India in a knee-jerk sort of way I do wonder how they manage to consume so many Indian films! I would say this in other contexts too.
March 2, 2011 at 11:33 PM
interesting points. i am partial to both countries. my take on this is that if you dis like india so much then you can’t be watching indian movies, listening to indian music and so forth. heres my stance-
I am a born pakistani, raised in the US, dad is Indian and mom is pakistani. Everyone on my mom’s side of the family have migrated to the US. My dad’s family however still reside in India. So I’ve been to India on many occasions. I have no dislike for India but I fully support the Pakistani cricket team and anything Pakistani related. My famiy in India joke around how I support Pakistan and hate the Indian cricket team. In my mind it has nothing to do with hating the country, its more hating the indian cricket team because they have owned us in the WC and just becuase it is a rivalry(in basketball terms I am a los angeles lakers fan and i hate the boston celtics(being our biggest rivals)), i dont hate the city of boston or the people or the political views of boston. Although India ain’t perfect, it’s far better run than Pakistan.
Pakistan’s biggest downfall has been that it has been so anti-india for the past 20-30 years that it has lost it’s own vision and identity. India is so far ahead that it’s not even focusing on Pakistan anymore.
Whenever I go to India I find the common man has respect for Pakistani cricket and the country itself. The times ive been back to Pakistan sadly the same cannot be said.
March 3, 2011 at 12:03 AM
Kobe needs to shoot better for Lakers to have some chance this year.
March 3, 2011 at 12:13 AM
agreed. dude is making too many excuses. im not a kobe fan but since he plays for the lakers i am forced to root for him. he bails us out a lot but puts us in a hole too many times. i thought this year would be Gasol’s year to take over but he has been a panzy. i still like our chances though!
March 3, 2011 at 1:33 AM
East is now loaded with stars. Celtics, Miami, Chicago, Orlando all have fair chance at title. In West it is between Spurs, Maverick and Lakers.
March 3, 2011 at 6:26 AM
thanks for this personal note..
March 2, 2011 at 2:08 PM
they can do and no one had to disagree with that
but it seems i have caused some furstration while talking about repeated traits of certain creature
hateful post rofl
look around im thread who did that
first post : glorification of pakistan and degradation well its a nanter
second post : how match was fixed and how india and eng will did hat
source: a funny tweet on shane who is doing the same since ipl days
only one idiot paki aamir sohail took that seriously
no offence
March 2, 2011 at 2:38 PM
All i’d like to say to you is that a coward is incapable of exhibiting love it is the prerogative of the brave- Gandhi
March 2, 2011 at 2:49 PM
Not sure what you mean by referencing this quote but it doesn’t exactly support your position in this debate!
March 2, 2011 at 2:59 PM
http://www.rediff.com/cricket/column/world-cup-2011-anil-kumble-column-tied-india-england-match-chinnaswamy-stadium/20110302.htm
March 2, 2011 at 5:37 PM
Ok some people forget ..providing India beat Ireland and Holland in thier next two games they will qualify with 7 points for the quarter finals..That is one way of still going through even if they did loose twice to sa and windies which I doubt..Since its top 4 a team needs max 6 points
Similar if Ireland even beat Holland they will only have 4 points..IF England beat Bangladesh England will have 5 points and still can get through even if they did loose to Windies and S Africa providing Ireland dont beat either of India , S Africa and Windies
You see all I am saying is ..the point England had with India may well prove vital and almost acts as security providing none of India, S Africa and Windies loose to them..So hopefully India beat Ireland and Holland and us Indian fans can relax
March 2, 2011 at 5:52 PM
thanks for the details here.. good to know this..
March 2, 2011 at 5:41 PM
Correction: Providing none of India vs S Africa and Windies loose to Ireland.. the top four teams may well be England, India, Windies and S Africa ..
To be honest to qualify for next round India only has to beat Ireland and Holland.. So since thats India next two fixtures its a great opportunity.. After these two games India should touch wood qualify then the games vs S Africa and Windies dont matter for qualification but only for positioning in the game..Which is why I was reasonably happy India somehow managed to salvage the game vs England..its a very vital point potentially
March 2, 2011 at 6:34 PM
No problem Satyam it only gets troublesome if Ireland beat any of S Africa, India and Windies.. but to be honest..Ireland has a lot to do to come ahead of any of the 4 test playing nations
Best case they Ireland will beat Holland.. but as said if India beat even two out of Holland, Ireland and S Africa and Windies.. Ireland just to overtake India would have to win 3 of thier remaining 4 four matches.. so providing India dont badly slip up and at least half of thier remaining games they be safe
As for what I prefer..I dont mind who India face in the quarter finals.. sometimes tough situations make champions..I can only think of Australia in 99 having lost two games earlier on and still winning..even in 83 India did loose to Australia and almost Zimbabwe..If India is going to win then they will win no matter..
Remember Pakistans win in 92/93 they lost to India..playing worser then India bowlings performance right now..loosing a lot but somehow won..So lets wait and see
March 2, 2011 at 9:27 PM
actually I was surprised when Johnnybrutal earlier mentioned that India were in danger of elimination.. didn’t think they could be in danger by just tying one game, that too with Eng. But then I thought they were probably doing the points a bit differently. Didn’t think much about it. This makes sense! and you’re right about Pakistan in ’92, they were in fact quite so-so for the entire first half of the tournament.
March 2, 2011 at 11:43 PM
its way way too early to say that a certain team will not make it to the quarterfinals. pretty much every team is still in it except a couple obvious teams(canada comes to mind). right now my favs to win it are Aussie, India and South Africa.
March 2, 2011 at 6:38 PM
Correction: In any case for Ireland to qualify ahead of India..is difficult providing India win half of thier remaning matches
So come on India although Ireland could qualify ahead of Windies and England but once again England and Windies would have to loose more then 2 matches bit for that to happen ..once again the draw between India and England should providing both they get act together from here on in could be vital
March 2, 2011 at 7:02 PM
It would be hard for India not to qualify.
Re: india and eng are in danger of going of the tournament in the first round now that ireland has beaten eng, if england loses again westindies or sa they’ll be out and if india loses again sa and windies they’ll be out
Doesnt make any sense. Not that it is unexpected.
March 2, 2011 at 9:32 PM
India can’t reach semis if they bowl like this: Kapil Dev
The man who won India her only World Cup 28 years ago and the finest all-rounder India has produced has given voice to the worst fear of cricket fans across the country.
The legendary Kapil Dev has said India, regarded as hot favourites before the tournament kicked off, can kiss any hopes of even reaching the semifinals goodbye if their bowling attack continues the way it has been in the two games so far.
“With the amount of runs we have conceded in the last two games, I have to be honest, it is difficult to see India even in the semi-finals,” Kapil bluntly told reporters at a promotional event on
“For me, having scored 338 runs, we should have won the match. It still ended in a tie. For that reason the bowlers have to be criticised,” he said, referring to the thriller played out in Bangalore on Sunday.
But he refused to dismiss the team’s chances. “The tournament has only started and the same bowlers have performed well in the past, hence we shouldn’t write them off so early.”
Sreesanth’s lack of focus was the talking point in the first game, leg spinner Piyush Chawla went for plenty against England. Barring Zaheer Khan, none of the bowlers really stood out in Bangalore. Off spinner Harbhajan Singh has managed just one wicket per game, and went for almost six runs per over against England.
Indian hopes now rest on left-arm paceman Ashish Nehra, who is recovering from back trouble and is yet to play a game. Some feel off spinner R Ashwin would do a better job as the second specialist spinner.
The criticism only backs the concerns already expressed by others. For all their depth in batting, India’s unsettled bowling has come in for sharp scrutiny after conceding far too many runs in the first two matches.
The Bangladesh batsmen, although chasing a big total in the opener, handled the Indian bowlers competently. England, on the other hand, chased down the huge total posted by India and the World Cup co-hosts were lucky to come away with a point following the tie.
Kapil Dev’s Devils owed their shock 1983 victory to the way they bowled and fielded. The billion-plus Indian fans are praying the 27-year wait will finally end on home turf this time.
March 3, 2011 at 6:53 AM
Maybe kapil dev too like me should stop spreading vemon about india, right?
March 3, 2011 at 6:58 AM
or maybe you should start offering some more frank views about your side as he is about his!
March 3, 2011 at 8:03 AM
my side is aus and to be frank they can kick any teams ass in this wc
March 3, 2011 at 8:48 AM
oh my bad.. didn’t realize you’d be backing Aus in an Aus/Pak match..
March 3, 2011 at 8:44 AM
O Captain, My Captain: Afridi’s Glorious Rabble
You could make a training film called How To Lose An ODI by making a montage of Pak’s mistakes in the last match: the trouble is, they won
Mukul Kesavan
Watching Pakistan win at the Premadasa on Saturday, I realized that this team isn’t a touring cricket side; it’s a travelling theatre troupe, a lunatic repertory company. Tickets to Pakistan matches ought to cost double: Afridi’s little army creates more drama in a single Power Play than most sides manage in a whole tournament. Imagine an Indian team made up mostly of Sreesanths and you have an inkling of the theatrical potential of this brilliant gang of drama queens.
I felt sorry for Sangakkara’s Sri Lankans. They’re everything a good team ought to be: disciplined, experienced, calm in a crisis and captained by a modern great, a man who talks such a good game that you just know he’ll run for high public office some day. And yet, they came unstuck against a team that seemingly does everything wrong. You could make a training film called How To Lose An ODI by making a montage of Pakistani mistakes in Saturdays match: the trouble is, they won.
The Sri Lankan chase began well; after a slow start, Tharanga and Dilshan eased past fifty and the commentators, specially Wasim Akram, started disparaging Afridis hyperactive captaincy style. He wasn’t giving Abdur Razzaq the fields the bowler wanted, he was talking to experienced bowlers like Shoaib Akhtar and Umar Gul after every ball, he was, in short, trying to be all eleven players instead of leading them. The television producers obviously agreed because they promptly played a spliced-together sequence of Captain Afridi in action that showed him gesturing, shouting, glowering, despairing, all in his distracted operatic style.
At that point, when the Sri Lankans had cruised past seventy at better than five runs an over without having lost a wicket, the message from the commentators was clear: this is not how a team should be led. I could see some clever copy editor rehearsing the next day’s headlines: ADHD Sinks Afridi. And it wasn’t only Afridi who was writing this script. His wicket keeper Kamran Akmal first charged down the pitch and managed to run out Mohammad Hafeez, then charged down the pitch and had himself stumped. He had done exactly this in the previous match against Kenya, so his claim to being the Cups Kamikaze King was now undisputed.
Forget rushing down the pitch, watching Kamran do nothing is riveting. His eyes stare, his teeth flash, he yips like an Apso on adrenaline. Just to confirm every cliché about Pakistani cricket, you had Shoaib Akhtar on the field. He first turned up in an interview before the match smiling dangerously and declaring he didn’t care what people thought about him. I’ve heard him say this so often that it felt like a flashback. This is a man who’s been banned more often than most revolutionary parties. Luckily for us, he’s always unbanned, because theres nothing in sport more gloriously weird than Shoaib in action. During the match, Umar Akmal botched a throw while Shoaib was bowling. On cue Shoaib kicked the stumps and so powerful is the presence of this ageing prima donna, that in the deep field poor Umar kicked the air in contrition.
I counted at least three dropped catches, two fluffed stumpings and countless missed run-out chances when the Sri Lankans were batting. Everyone contributed: Younis Khan dropped one, Abdur Rahman put down a sitter, this Pakistan team is an equal opportunity firm.
Yet they won.
And Captain Afridi was the star of this movie. He hit sixteen runs off six balls, took four wickets with unplayably fast leg-breaks and googlies and, despite the fuss about his leadership style, his desperate, raging need to win was the gravitational force that held his rabble together. He won because along with the clowns in the team, he had two straight men, Younis Khan and Misbah-ul-Haq, who ignored the madness around then and methodically built the partnership than won Pakistan the match. This being Pakistan, Misbah-ul-Haq is a Pathan hero straight from Central Casting: he’s so splendidly hook-nosed that even enclosed in his helmet he looks like a hawk.
When they’re bad, Pakistani teams are awful. Their recent history of factional discord, divided dressing rooms, dishonest players and assorted craziness has sometimes made them dysfunctional. But there’s no team in cricket that has more electricity about it. Even its profligacy, the extravagance with which it wastes its prodigious gifts, is a spectacle that’s worth the price of a ticket. I wouldn’t bet on the Pakistanis, but there’s an outside chance that they could steal this thing because even when they play like the Keystone Cops, the script in their heads is always Oceans Eleven.
March 3, 2011 at 9:24 AM
“All i’d like to say to you is that a coward is incapable of exhibiting love it is the prerogative of the brave- Gandhi”
johnnybrutal: gandians never call other cowards .. i would be more happy if you would called me directly to show your so called courage
btw i called some of them and their traits which is a harsh fact whether you like it or not …most of liberal pakis in overseas get along nicely with indians and are pretty nice to hang out with
one of my elders brother’s fast friend is from lahore right from his masters days and we genrally get to know about many propagandas and even many friendly arguments
further venom is what i mean seriosly because its appearent from your post :
in the first post you hail pakistan its good but degradation of india was not needed
in the second you talked about match fxing and for ICC to take action … cmmon it was a funy tweet from shane( the guy who himself had linked with bokies and was fined its harachiry to expect any exposure from him)
anyway that was a funny tweet and we can even more amusing to see how formar pakistan cricketers can take it seriously when no other in world cricket did
yersterday you talked how india will be out with your logic but you forgot it may still reach quarters by 3 more ways and one of them has been told by cricket rules
cmmon its appearent from post be honest about it anyway india loss will not make pak winners
March 3, 2011 at 9:35 AM
anyway cricket is a great leveller :
pakis just won narrowly against sl and canada has exposed the pakistan today
who knows they may even beat them today
March 3, 2011 at 9:53 AM
Iffrononfire,
May I suggest that we refrain from using words like – Pakis? There may be no intention but sounds derogatory. Pak is okay as is Pakistan or Pakistanis.
March 3, 2011 at 10:25 AM
“I’m not here to discuss politics”
“but again i will refrain from stating how thousands of Muslims and Sikhs and Christians were burned alive in india, samjhota express being burned to ashes with narendar modis men caught red handed and no action been taken regarding that.”
Arent those contradictory?
March 3, 2011 at 10:54 AM
Seems like we need Satyam to play some “shots” here.
Seriously though, its not even like we can tell guys to chill down etc.
Just Hate this hate talk.
March 3, 2011 at 11:09 AM
dude i’m worried about you, what if ireland actually beats india, you might commit suicide
March 3, 2011 at 11:09 AM
btw some people need the real eye opener
March 3, 2011 at 11:13 AM
“dude i’m worried about you, what if ireland actually beats india, you might commit suicide”
what is wrong with you … have you totally lost your senses
let ireland beat india or anybody which its just a game
may be you guys tend to associate it with war and commit suicide
byw telling you an india loss will not make pak winner no matter how much you pray for it
March 3, 2011 at 11:19 AM
even if pakistan loses my other side australia may bring the cup home, booyeah!
March 3, 2011 at 11:25 AM
if talking about cricket is an impurity then i’m sorry i can’t do that, again it started off with me saying india AND england are in danger of going out and if that’s going to make you so sensitive then you shouldn’t come on public forums, there’s a reason why this is called the WORLD WIDE WEB
March 3, 2011 at 11:26 AM
Cmon guyz—chill out !
No point in this acid mongering—lol
Why not try the latest centrespreads—-good for uncontrolled adrenaline!
March 3, 2011 at 12:39 PM
LOL Alex….maybe you can teach SRK and other wannables of BW about how to be irreverent and funny instead of lame and irritating with their “risque banters”!
March 3, 2011 at 12:45 PM
“LOL Alex….maybe you can teach SRK and other wannables of BW about how to be irreverent and funny instead of lame and irritating with their “risque banters”!”
Many Thanks Matrix….for the kind wordz…Not a problem at all!
March 3, 2011 at 11:47 AM
2 world records for afridi already in this WC
Best bowling figures for a captain in WC
First bowler to get 4 wickets in consecutive matches
On the other hand terrible batting performance
March 3, 2011 at 11:51 AM
“uncontrolled adrenaline AND testosterone!”
HAppy to be the “voice of sanity” to prevent this “riot” between iffron, and brutal and others!
Anyhow, enjoyed mukul kesavans piece on the theatrical pakistani team–no offence though!
Really v entertaining piece!
Ok, Brutal—show your brutality–time to celebrate your afridis perfromance! Go for it ( but use rubber!) lol
March 3, 2011 at 11:57 AM
Ok guys, I have deleted a number of comments here which were completely unproductive and beyond the pale as these were frankly examples of political hate speech. We don’t need to get into problematic examples of politics as a slur even in a properly political debate.
Johnnybrutal.. I will say that no one is ‘sensitive’ about the Indian team. You have either been misinformed or are being unfair. I started off all this with a simple point (which I stand by) that when analyzing these things one should move out of the nationalist box a little bit. For example Pakistan did very well against SL the other day defending a low total. But they also batted pathetically against Can today and required Afridi’s heroics yet again. These things happen. But I don’t see you making the sorts of comments after the Can game that you did before and after the India/Eng game.
Of course it’s your prerogative to be simply nationalistic here. I don’t mind it as long as it’s done in civil fashion. Similarly you too shouldn’t mind my criticism when it too is delivered with civility. No need to raise the temperature by introducing words like ‘venom’ and so on. You were later acting a bit naive and pretending I was going after you for no reason but your remarks were consistently going in a certain direction. It was brought up 3 times and each time you did not respond to why Indian is the world’s # 2 ODI team and why Pak is # 6. But again I don’t have a problem with your agenda, such as I see it, but don’t also say people are going after you.
For the record it is an Indian here and someone who hails from Narendra Modi’s state who asked Iffrononfire not to use the word ‘Paki’ and I agree completely here. So no need to tar everyone with the same brush.
Finally there was no need to describe you roots. You are not on trial for them. I don’t particularly care where anyone comes from as this does not define my ‘sense’ of anybody. I only go by what is ‘said’ here and that’s a big distinction.
Iffrononfire.. Don’t think you should get so worked up about these things either.
Finally guys as my personal prerogative here any untoward remarks about the Ganges are off-limits! No one shall insult this great river here!
March 3, 2011 at 12:22 PM
well said. Of course there are disagreement but one should be civil enough to make the discourse useful.
March 3, 2011 at 12:10 PM
Satyam:
1. I was here to point out pakistans pathetic batting performance against canada before you commented on it, so maybe you should read the comments properly.
2. India is the #2 Odi team in the world but i’d advice you to check their performance in the previous 4 ICC world events and you’ll get your answer
3. You choose to ignore who started the political rant here with comments on the “trait” of pakistanis.
4. Again the word venom was not introduced here by me, it was your friend who said i’m spreading venom against india.
I would surely love a reply from you on this since as you’ve accused me of a number of things which i didnt do.
I’m not describing my roots to anyone of you because i dont care, i was just letting you know that why i’m supporting both pakistan and australia because i’m sorry to say some geniuses here think that i’m attacking them because i hate indians which i dont because my grandmother is indian and she lives in hindnagar colony
March 3, 2011 at 12:12 PM
And for the record no one here said anything bad about ganges river
March 3, 2011 at 12:48 PM
I was just kidding there!
On the rest I was skimming through the comments so I might have misjudged things here and there. But I did delete all of Iffrononfire’s comments too.
I also checked the comments and saw that the latter introduced the word ‘venom’ in an older comment.. I see he was referring to other forums and so on but yes he shouldn’t have said some of the stuff he did and I mentioned it in the earlier response. However I was relying here on my exchange with you more than anything else. And I introduced the nationalist charge and I stand by it. And again I did not have a problem with it except to critique it. But many Pakistanis have relatives in India. Doesn’t make them neutral about India!
On the rest if you’re getting into the WC record yes there are lots of interesting things. SL have never beaten Pak in the WC, Pak have never beaten India and so on. Again your reliance on the facts is very selective. Similarly you mentioned the other day about how India could be eliminated. later (as you can see in the comments) we discovered a very different picture. So wouldn’t you say all of your comments go in a certain anti-Indian direction?! This is not so on Pakistan. I would challenge anyone to look at this thread and come to a different conclusion.
But again I do NOT have a problem with this bias. It might be natural, it is certainly historical but I do not have an issue with it. I pointed it out, you should have accepted it as opposed to suggesting some of us were over-reacting. This is not to excuse some of Iffrononfire’s comments. He tends to get emotional sometimes and also I think his usage of certain phrases are less meant to provoke than might seem to be the case. I’m saying this because I know him. But in any case if someone is reacting that way it is not necessary to follow up in the same vein. One can respond without making it a reply in kind. Nonetheless if you note my ‘argument’ with you is still about the ‘nationalistic’ bit and not the other stuff.
by the way here’s Afridi:
“I think it’s an open tournament with no one favourite team,” said Afridi. “I think India is one of the top favourites. South Africa has been playing well and Australia can still win,” said the Pakistan captain.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/cricket/8818320/afridi-wants-pakistan-india-world-final/
March 3, 2011 at 1:04 PM
And to be even more clear I don’t want you to think that you are less welcome here if you going to support Pak in cricket or if you’re going to be tougher on India. But my criticism was of the sort where I sometimes accuse SRK fans of being knee-jerk about certain things to do with him and so forth. I thought that your debate was following a certain nationalistic script. But you are free to do so everday as long as it’s civil just as I too have the right in equally civil fashion to point out what I consider a ‘bias’.
March 3, 2011 at 1:41 PM
The Performance of Shahid Afridi is reminding me one of his earliest International Series – Carlton and United series 1996-97 in Australia.
It was between Australia,West Indies and Pakistan.
At that point WI was still a very strong side(though they had lost the shine and top dominant slot after losing home and away test series to Aus 1995 and 1996 resp). Infact their loss to Aus in 1995 home series was first test series loss of their’s in 15 years.
And then we had next number 1 contender Aus at home, strong as ever.
In the end,we had Pakistan, Mercurial as ever with a new young star 16 years old Afridi.
It was a evenly contested series with Australia Starting with a bang but later losing steam.WI was solid throughout with Lara being big performer.
Pakistan eventually started having upset wins against Aus, but not much against WI.
WI and Pak qualified for the finals and with Aggression of Afridi in the forefront, Pak defeated WI with Lara even with his all might of 400+ runs in the series couldnt stop them.
Afridi was man of the finals(they had 2 finals) and that was indeed one of the most celebrated starts to a cricketing career.
March 3, 2011 at 1:51 PM
I have never been fan of Afridi’s batting. I think someone with “intelligent” bowling will always get him whenever he is playing those one of those blinder innings.
March 3, 2011 at 2:41 PM
ahh doga this brought back a lot of pleasant memories. IMHO those were the golden days of ODI. If I’ve to pin point exactly, this period started with the Carlton and United series of 1995-1996 (when Srilanka truly exploded onto the ODI scene) and continued till the tournament in Sharjhah when Sachin scored two epic back to back centuries against Australia.
Sure there were great players and matches before the above mentioned period and after that also. But during those years everything came together perfectly. Each match felt special, the stakes seemed to be very high. Srilanka of that era deserve a lot of credit for making ODIs so interesting, especially their opening pair Kalu and Jayasurya (though not truly unique they deserve to be recognized for starting the trend of attacking in the first 15 overs).
March 3, 2011 at 2:46 PM
At that time Jayasurya could connect anything thrown at him. I am not sure what happened to that Jayasurya who could tear apart any bowling.
March 3, 2011 at 2:06 PM
and wasim led them well that time … in afridi case he has not done justice to his talent
lately his stint with counties of eng, aus and s.a has made him more professional in the fag end of his career
“India is the #2 Odi team in the world but i’d advice you to check their performance in the previous 4 ICC world events and you’ll get your answer”
ya and it will be after 12 year that pak will reach second round of wc
ranking hardly has anything to do with ICC events
india have always defeated pak in wc but never in champions trophy(icc trophy).. again an extreme
March 3, 2011 at 9:09 PM
ya and it will be after 12 year that pak will reach second round of wc
that is only 2 world cups ago. pak’s been good in WC’s just the last two have been horrible. and i think it totally correlates with how pakistan as a country has slipped in the past 12 years.
March 3, 2011 at 2:51 PM
I think india was the no.1 odi team during the last champions trophy yet they couldn’t reach the semis.
It will be after 12 years that pak will reach the second round of wc but they have wonderfully redeemed themselves in icc events
first t20 wc finalists
second t20 wc champions
third t20 wc semi finalists
icc champions trophy semi finalists
March 3, 2011 at 3:09 PM
this isn’t T20.
By the way what would you say if India and Pak faced off at any point? Would you go on past WC history?
March 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM
i think the only way india and pakistan face each other is in the finals..and that will be freaking incredible. nothing would be better than beating india in the finals..for a world cup IN mumbai, india with all odds against pakistan. atleast for a pakistani fan nothing could get better!
March 3, 2011 at 2:54 PM
I’m not saying this because pak is #6 in their rankings but in these tournaments rankings hardly matter, playing a one on one series and a world tournament are completely different things, if rankings were of any importance in these tournaments the South african team would’ve reached the finals or semis of every friggin icc event from the past decade and atleast would’ve won a few
March 3, 2011 at 3:08 PM
As I said at the beginning of the debate either teams that are overwhelmingly good win or those that produce surprises. WC history shows both. Ultimately India has won it once and Pakistan once. In 1987 neither side reached the final. Pakistan was especially expected to do so because they had a strong side at the time, Aus wasn’t the team they later became and India wasn’t expected to lose to Eng. Both teams lost. India beat the mighty WI in ’83. In ’96 SL upended Aus. In ’92 Pak pulled it off after playing a poor first half and when they were less favored than in ’87. One could continue with these examples. So yes there’s no correlation between a team’s standings (though your initial point was about their weak bowling and the standings show they could do it despite this.. weaker bowling can be as exposed over a series) and a tournament where it’s eventually about one game knockouts. At the same time the opposite isn’t true either. So Pak have looked dangerous in many World Cups but they’ve only won one in 35 years! They certainly look dangerous this time and could go deep but I’d be a bit surprised to see them win it all because I think that there has to be just that right mix of experience and youth on a team which they don’t quite have. They might be good enough to knock out some good teams, winning it all requires a consistency that I’m not sure this team possesses. Wouldn’t be horribly shocked if it happened though. so again one can’t look at the facts selectively. SA incidentally have always underperformed in the WC. Not every top team is like that. Leaving this aside in any tournament rankings do matter. Teams might or might not live upto those expectations but that’s all we have to go on. So again no necessarily correlation here but the reverse isn’t true either.
March 3, 2011 at 9:19 PM
good point on pakistan’s current team. i can’t see this team beating aussie or even NZ. Afridi is no Imran Khan and Shoib Akhtar aint no Akram. our batting is not disciplined enough or even consistent enough to beat india, SA and Aussie. and our bowling isn’t good enough either. Afridi is playing out of his mind right now but i don’t see his will carrying us that far. i believe we are still young and still too immature. if we were mature we wouldn’t come out and take the Canadian’s lightly.
March 3, 2011 at 3:20 PM
Pakistan was able to get their ‘bad’ game out of the system and got away with a W. The way it looks now, the match between PAK and AUS will decide who is 1 and 2 in Group A. Group B is wide open now thanks to the England – India tie and Ireland’s remarkable win against England.
Afridi is on some tear right now. 3 straight 4+ wickets to start the WC.
March 3, 2011 at 3:26 PM
As for India and England, I am not really sure what these two sides can do to get their bowling back on track. England has given up 290 + in 3 straight games (2 of those agains the Ireland and Holland!!!). James Anderson has been taken to cleaners in this WC which some predicted would happen to him on South Asian wickets. India have Zaheer and on one else. They need to at least 2 other bowlers to setup up big time because the batsmen can’t be expected to score 340 in every game.
March 3, 2011 at 5:46 PM
Pakistan has a strange cricketing history.
They do produce enormously talented players and with right leaders can play their hearts out. But they are consistently let down by administrative bungles and fights and political interference. And latley, some other scandals. They are always capable tho of spoiling someones party.
March 3, 2011 at 5:56 PM
the team reflects the national mess in many ways.. It’s not surprising in that sense.. on that note they just assassinated the only Christian minister in the govt yesterday. This following on the heels of another assassination just recently. But getting back to cricket whatever their team produces it’s pure talent. It certainly can’t be the organizational structure! Feel sorry for the team though. They deserve better.
March 3, 2011 at 9:21 PM
agreed on every single thing you said here satyam. could not have said it any better myself.
March 4, 2011 at 11:48 AM
Saying that “they” assassinated their only christian leader is a bit funny, as the nation got together and conspired to kill this one christian guy. Again i dont want to get into politics so i’d rather not comment, maybe there should be a a seperate thread for that because that’s been the popular topic. And your national mess theory isnt really logical, how have they reached the finals and semis of the last 4 world tournaments when they were in this mess at that time too?
In case of a Pak India match in the Wc, India would certainly have the upper hand because of the Wc history and home advantage, but there certainly wont be a Pak india match this time, however there will be a India Aus match and Aus will be ready to kick some arse.
Saying Pak is not equipped to beat NZ is stupid. In anycase the team at the top of group A will benefit the most as they’ll most likely face windies in their quater final match which will be a certain win as all teams in group A have a strong bowling lineup. it is certain aus or pak will be at the top of the group A.
March 4, 2011 at 1:49 PM
C’mon ‘they’ is a loose phrasing! But the comment is very clear if you care to re-read it. The ‘national mess’ gets manifested in the terrible organizational structure of Pakistani cricket that actually no Pakistani I have ever known has denied. Even in the 80s Imran Khan famously took things over like a dictator more or less because he felt the board was miserable. In any case whatever is being achieved is on pure talent. This too I made clear. These weren’t anti-Pakistan statements but my assessment of the way things are. I have at other points criticized India aplenty when it comes to fascist leaders and so on. But I can’t offer India-Pakistan parity here as that would be quite absurd. I don’t know if you’re asking for this but quite often a certain tit-for-tat competitive sense enters these discussions. I can’t say I am led by political correctness in these matters. I consider Pakistan a bit of a political basket-case but not because I am biased or anything. I would in fact consider it unreasonable to hold any other opinion in this matter. This doesn’t mean anything for the people of that country. And again for me it is fairly obvious that one critiques nations, ideologies, ‘states-of-mind’. Otherwise people are the same everywhere. Historical interventions can however greatly alter how people ‘think’ and sometimes ‘behave’. But in any case I don’t ‘essentialize’ national behavior. And people who cannot accept these truths about their nations are I would submit part of the problem. Because solutions begin with recognition. Getting back to my own comment they’ve (yes ‘they’!) had two assassinations in a matter of weeks and each for challenging blasphemy laws which as far as I can tell are disgusting to begin with and are simply one more instrument of the state to repress and coerce minorities in all sorts of ways. This to me is a part of the larger national malaise which then gets reflected in the cricket structure which was ‘challenged’ to begin with. Now you might say that I shouldn’t have introduced politics at all or not offered opinions on a nation in a cricket discussion but I don’t see it that way. It certainly wasn’t a gratuitous remark. And I don’t believe in boxes anyway when it comes to a discussion. There should be a logical connection of course and I believe I offered that here. And again I have been as blunt in many other contexts including those involving India.
As for Aamirfan’s comment about not beating NZ I probably disagree there but I don’t find the comment to be ‘stupid’ either.
March 4, 2011 at 1:07 PM
“but there certainly wont be a Pak india match this time, however there will be a India Aus match and Aus will be ready to kick some arse.”
are you sure just 2 days back you said india won’t reach 2 nd round and now you are all eager for india vs aus 2nd round match when pak aus match is on cards now
again contradicting yourself and calling others as stupids and using language like arse amd cowards in the name of gandhian philosphy
i wonder what is the bigger stupidity
have you ever heard of your pcb chief , politicians and othrs who say the same things what satyam has said
hillarious indeed
was salman taseer or minority affairs minister was not killed within a span of 2 months
look around what your president is saying that its a new phenomenon to kill every moderate voice in your country
just arguing without any conviction won’t change the truth
March 4, 2011 at 3:24 PM
1. I never said india wont reach the second round, if i did i’d ask you to copy and paste that comment and i’ll happily apologize to you, however i did say that england and india and in danger of going out
2. Pakistan recently beat nz both in tests and odis in nz so pakistan not being able to beat nz in the subcontinent is stupid
3. There is certainly a problem in the organizational structure of pcb and alot of corruption in the political setup in Pakistan but saying the assassinations are carried out by pakistanis without any proofs is again very silly. You guys talk about these assassinations in the span of two months, heck forget about these assassinations, lets talk about the dozens of suicide attacks carried out here, has it ever been proven that pakistanis actually conduct them? Talking about Pakistan exporting terrorism in the world, which country has been on the receiving end of terrorism? It’s Pakistan. What about the hundreds of blackwater agents operating in Pakistan, killing civilians which isnt even reported in the media. The day raymond davis was caught in pakistan there was another american caught in peshawar after two days with explosives, raymond davis himself has links to several shady organizations. Now talk about unrest in Pakistan, who is the beneficiary of this unrest? Which country is the most strategically placed country in the subcontinent? Every single country has it’s problems and they solve them internally, india is said to be the next super power of the world, yet after more than 50 years of independence india has the most poverty in the whole world. India itself is going through an internal war when several massacres are happening everyday and the govt hasnt been able to control it yet, look at what’s happening with the maoist rebels across the country and how thousands of people have been brutally killed.
March 4, 2011 at 3:42 PM
Talking about Pakistan exporting terrorist when the indian national cecurity advisor himself has said that there are as many as 800 local terrorist cells operating in the country. Look at what happened in gujrat? thousands of christians burned alive, muslims burned alive, isnt india the worlds largest democracy? Look at whats happening in punjab, bihar, nagaland, assam and several other states. This is the internal problem india and facing and looks whats happening, in 600 states over 200 mutiny has started taking place.
Again i had no interest in discussing politics, it was brought up by you guys and i was forced to reply, every country has internal problems which they have to solve internally
March 4, 2011 at 3:58 PM
Johnybrutal – You are taking information from anti-India outlets (and there are many). There are problems but not to extent you are describing. Last major riots happened in Gujarat. We may contest the official numbers (which is less than 1000 and unoffically it is 2000) but the ratio of Muslim and Hindus killed was 2:1 . And there were no christians involved. Most of the people acknowledge that what happened shouldn’t have happened (even the party which was in power and blamed for riots has many leaders express regret at events). I am not suggesting that everything is normal but things are much better even with diversity of billion population.
March 4, 2011 at 4:18 PM
actually I didn’t want to get into the specifics because frankly this is just a hysterical response from JohnnyBrutal and not a calm, cool debate with some minimal measure of objectivity. But I do agree with you. I am the harshest critic of some of the violence that happens within Indian borders but all said and done and given the scale of India’s diversity in every sense imaginable the Indian post-Independence experiment has been stunningly successful in very many ways and to a degree that almost seems miraculous. Allowing for all the contexts I think this history could be put up against that of any other democracy. the US in the 19th century wasn’t a pretty place (among other things pretty much an entire minority population was exterminated, another was enslaved). If one looks at the arc of European democracy there has been extraordinary and even historically unique violence in many instances. Given what could have gone wrong in India it is remarkable that the democracy has endured so well. And one could look at various parameters of human progress as well as the very idea of Indian nationhood which has only grown stronger over time.
Are there lots of problems? Absolutely. But I will not be lectured to on this by anyone who refuses to recognize problems in Pakistan.
March 4, 2011 at 4:11 PM
Not sure who you’re really arguing with here! The NZ comments were made by Aamirsfan not myself, just don’t think there’s anything ‘stupid’ about them.
On the rest in your emotional outburst (which is all over the place and unfortunately proves everything I’ve been trying to say) you seem to have expanded the whole debate into all sorts of things. But let me address this stuff:
1)Actually there’s no evidence connecting the Modi government with anything that happened in Gujarat. So do you want to take that line on ‘evidence’ here that you’ve just presented on Pakistan?! Frankly I find these claims a bit disingenuous. Showing a great deal of commitment to juridical standards only when one’s side is being discussed not otherwise. It’s like folks who aren’t ‘secular’ in the least jumping up and down only when their interests are threatened. One should be consistent.
2)Not sure what ‘Pakistanis’ means here. There’s mayhem in the country. I don’t think they’re all ‘foreign agents’! But in any case whoever suggested that Pakistanis weren’t getting killed in the violence or that ordinary people were the worst sufferers. This happens all the time. But here mostly Pakistanis are killing other Pakistanis. But all this was anyway not my point. I made a simple comment that Pakistan is a political basket-case. Whatever the reasons might be.
3)As for India actually many of us here have discussed many of those issues at extraordinary length both in this forum and on NG. No one denies those problems. Again one can have different perspectives on these things but to even deny that there is a problem is a bit strange isn’t it?! Or does identifying problems in India reduce the ones in Pakistan? Of course I cannot think of any serious expert of any kind anywhere in the world who’d think Pakistan and India are comparable in any sense but perhaps you could find me someone! Every nation can avoid facing upto its own problems but just pointing to others. Not sure what this provides beyond a false sense of security. Hey we’re not so bad. Look at the Congo! This kind of avoidance or evasion is part of the problem! Blaming everyone in the world but oneself is a classic avoidance of responsibility. As is trying to change the terms of the debate with one poor ‘excuse’ after another…
1)Look at India
2)Someone other than a ‘Pakistani’ is responsible for all of Pakistan’s problems
3)Who doesn’t have problems?
Again note how the reasons are mutually exclusive! You continue to believe I am attacking Pakistan. I am not. I have said volumes on Indian politics, or the harshest stuff about Indian cinema, so on and so forth. You would yourself describe dozens of other countries the way I have described Pakistan. But you choose to be blind in this situation or else it’s the old India/Pakistan binary logic where nothing must be accepted before Indians. Let’s be serious. Don’t think people have started attacking you here. Your own emotional outburst is now on a forum where I would guess most are Indians.
As I said the other day hey India’s not too bad! I’m sure you’re not consuming Pakistani movies! Think about this for a while.
March 4, 2011 at 5:15 PM
>_> cant believe some of the comments here by johnnybrutal in the main. I will sum up I have a few muslim friends being a Indian and even they wouldnt approve some of the comments here.
Why cant India and Pakistan fans get along its abit silly to be honest.
Back to the cricket in a minute.. its comments like in this topic that a lot of people at times dont want Pakistan to win..because of the minority of the fans turning everything into religion and politics. Sport is sport guys
Now to the cricket..I remember the world cup 92 very well..everyone thought Pakistan had a weak bowling line up..an aging Imran Khan, wasim akram..mustaq ahmed who that point wasnt that successful and the ok aquib javed. They didnt look penetrative until they got the run going..Am hoping when India get things something similar can..if not never mind
I just dont want a predictable Australia and S Africa final.. if India cant win it then hopefully S Africa can..I like the unpredictability they are trying to bring and @Satyam..I am just as passionate and knowledgable on films..but I will share my views eventually on Bollywood
March 4, 2011 at 5:21 PM
JohnnyBrutal would say he didn’t introduce the politics here.. but on the more recent thing about Pakistan being a national mess I was responding to Rajen, not him and my point was that Pakistan often had talented teams and a better organizational structure would have served them well. But of course given the way everything else was in the country one could hardly expect the cricket board to be super.
Earlier I criticized him for being ‘nationalistic’ when discussing the Indian team as it was all one-sided and clearly seemed to betray a bias. And I continue to think, even as these biases are hardly surprising in the subcontinent, that one can strive to be just a little objective in some of these debates.
The reason I am summarizing all of this once more is because with these longer threads sometimes the original points are lost and everyone can freely accuse everyone else. JohnnyBrutal and Iffrononfire then got into a hotter political argument and I removed many of those comments.
Of course I do recognize that political references in these contexts often excite people but I see no reason to completely avoid conversations because of this. The hope is that everyone can act in civil fashion.
March 4, 2011 at 5:29 PM
Lets agree to keep politics out of this and the nationalistic sentiments.Lets cheer our favorites and hope for good cricket.
March 4, 2011 at 5:31 PM
well said.. perhaps I shouldn’t have introduced my original criticism.. true though it might be it raises the temperature.
and while this was a frank discussion I don’t want anyone to think that one side was being pounced upon or anything..
March 4, 2011 at 8:49 PM
your’e reasonable dude satyam. don’t think you are anti-pakistan. i actually agreed on some of the points you made on pakistan’s instability and how it has directly affected the cricket team.
March 4, 2011 at 9:51 PM
thanks Aamirsfan..
March 5, 2011 at 6:56 AM
coincidentally here’s a piece that appeared yesterday in the Indian Express. The writer as it says there is a Pakistani security analyst:
http://www.indianexpress.com/story-print/757482/
I think I’d agree with most of what’s being said here. I would perhaps and as a general matter deviate a touch on her liberal society getting smaller point. Minorities can hijack complacent and or confused (in the ways the author has described) liberal cross-sections of society rather easily and gradually increase their influence over time. When those same liberal orders actually wake up it’s too late. Iran was a very similar situation. And it’s not just religious extremism either. If you let any political ideology become a monster it’s very hard to get rid of it. But such monsters are also formed when a society and/or a political order has inherent ideological weaknesses or vulnerabilities. So when you found a state on the basis of religion certain consequences follow. When you bow down to fascist political parties and their cultural policing larger problems abound in turn. So on and so forth.
March 4, 2011 at 8:46 PM
im all for that. last nights matches were horrid. its going to be a fun weekend full of good cricket matches and hopefully good cricket!!!
March 4, 2011 at 5:28 PM
In fairness I’d say that Pak in ’92 was still way better in terms of the bowling than the current Indian team. Akram alone would be worth everyone else put together! And though at the very fag end Imran was nonetheless treated with respect. Also in general many of the bowlers did well on that tour (Aaqeb Javed was often great..) and in general because Imran Khan was of course very good as a bowler-captain. Much as we see for example someone like Sachin who’s guided many younger players through very critical innings. Sehwag’s triple century in Multan for example where he said later he couldn’t have done it on that occasion without sachin’s guidance. But getting back to Pakistan they’ve generally had strong bowling attacks since Imran Khan. Having said that I have never been too impressed by all the bowlers who followed the two Ws. I just don’t think that they’re of the same caliber by any stretch. But yes they still keep throwing out a lot of gifted pace attacks though sadly half are lost depending on the season to one scandal or the other.
March 4, 2011 at 6:47 PM
Very true satyam just I didnt think aquib was that great he was good though..took a hatrick vs India at Sharjah but was steady..I always put him more in the Micheal Kaprowiz mould (you know the australian bowler whose spelling I got wrong)
Getting back to the present..whats hurt India in recent times..the lack of development of R P Singh and Ishant Sharma..R P Singh back in 07 was so good vs England and Ishand later that winter vs Australia..At that time I remember it looked India had enough bowlers..R P Singh..ishant, munaf, sreesanth, nehra..now it dont
Munaf was pacier then this..dont know what happens with the bowlers after a couple of seasons..Still think India can do it as long as thier bowling at least improves 50%..To me its a crying shame Irfan Pathan never got enough chances
Sri Lanka vs Australia will also the best indicator yet of how the Australian team is going to go this world cup
March 4, 2011 at 7:31 PM
It is true that some promising pace talents over the last 7-8 years have in most cases fizzled out.
March 4, 2011 at 8:42 PM
Thank You Satyam, rajen and cricketrules for being understanding towards Pak. On NG a few are bashing the team just coz a few have been caught out for cheating. At the end of the day Pak are the real losers, because they have lost the greatest talent to come out of Pakistan since last two W’s (Mohammed Amir).
I love to watch games played between Pak and India on YouTube (old games). However, the amount of hatred which goes on in the comment scetion truly baffles me. They discuss everything BUT cricket. Heck, am a British Pakistani and the team I play for is run by White English people. They have always been very warm to me even though they are fully aware of the turmoil in Pak and as much as it hurts me to say even the problems ‘some’ Muslims have cuased around the world. Yet, when we play we play together and colour, race etc nothing matters but cricket.
Now with the above out of the way (hope I havn’t offended anyone) I would like to add that I do consider Pak as one of the favs. I know many ex cricketers are of a different view but this is when Pak are at there most dangerous. I remember just a year back or so when Pak were in the semi finals v SA (Twenty20 Lords). No one gave them a chance, the british media had SA as hot favs but we all know what happened. The game the other day, batting wise was AWFUL. However, on the positive side they bowled well and I can bet a few years ago they would have lost that game. There is a real togetherness amongst the team and with the Captain Afridi leading the way it can only lead to bigger and better things.
Our openers are yet to click (I had high hopes on them especially the 19 year old Ahmed Shezad). For some reason they are far too cautious in the early overs and all they do in the end is throw their wicket away. This instantly brings pressure on Kamran Akmal (who should be batting at 7 or 8 not at 3). Misbah has been the rock for the last 6 months and with the class of Younis Khan Pak certainly can score good runs.
So far in this world cup Pak are yet to chase. When they do bat second it will be interesting to see how they go about it. The team v NZ is already in place but they are in a bit of a dilemma in who to pick Saeed Ajmal or Abdur Rehman. Good problems though
March 4, 2011 at 9:49 PM
On the cheating bit I personally sympathize with the players. Not that it’s ok to do some of this stuff but I suspect the board led them on a bit and then eventually had to come down hard on them when there was exposure. Don’t know all the details but just find it hard to believe that no one knew anything about all of this.
By the way your comment is a perfectly reasonable one. Absolutely nothing to get offended about at all.
March 5, 2011 at 8:56 AM
I dont want India Pakistan face off for obvious reasons and fear the obvious hysteria.
But the thrill is too much. Like watching a reality show on a mammoth scale. Either way, one set of the cricketers will be crucified. For some, the match will be jehad and for others the match will be a feast.
If Pandavas and Kauravas played cricket with their supporters making the required number of players, Krishna and Shakuni playing umpires, it would have been like an Indo Pak match. I dont hate Kauravas at all. Though I feel they are always arrogant.
March 5, 2011 at 10:18 AM
this rain draw now makes Pak the leaders in their group. Pity the match ended because Sangakkara looked to be playing a special one.
March 5, 2011 at 12:57 PM
Agree. A good knock by sangakaara.
Although find his eloquence better than his batsmenship—has a budding career as a politician later on…
Saw a few “balls” of the match…Noticeable how much kretja and the other warne style kiddie actually “spinning” the ball. Bhajji for all his doosras and varaitions, does everyhting but spin the ball much…
When the absence pf guys like nehra and praveen kr is felt so much, it shows the quality of the current bowling attack!
A bit wary even of ireland now!!
March 6, 2011 at 6:56 AM
England bowlers fight back and defeat SA by 6 runs. Now India can top the group with a win over Ireland.
March 6, 2011 at 7:15 AM
They don’t call them choke a lot for no reason…..useless…just useless!!!
March 6, 2011 at 7:18 AM
SA have been perennial disappointments in the WC..
March 6, 2011 at 7:23 AM
yes…everytime…. i don’t think anyone would know what its like being an SA fan… we are left disappointed always! I see no hope for us in this world cup…none…!!!
March 6, 2011 at 7:28 AM
Having a strong team that underperforms is much worse than having a relatively weak team.. I’d agree there. Somehow they’re unable to surprise in those tricky situations.
March 6, 2011 at 7:58 AM
Exactly the point… we have a well balanced team yet when it matters, they can never do it!!! We’re always left disappointed….
March 6, 2011 at 9:41 AM
meanwhile India lost two quick wickets against Ire and it’s disappointing that they will in all probability need a significant inning from Sachin to get to a 200 total!
March 6, 2011 at 9:43 AM
and there goes Sachin.
March 6, 2011 at 9:48 AM
Sachin’s got a habit of getting out at newbies
March 6, 2011 at 9:48 AM
yeah this was worrying me when he started batting..
March 6, 2011 at 10:50 AM
seems to be the sort of match where a number of players will add 30-35 runs a piece..
March 6, 2011 at 7:19 AM
Film promos during matches to grab eyeballs
Bharati Dubey, TNN | Mar 5, 2011, 06.10am IST
MUMBAI: Bollywood has jumped onto the cricket bandwagon to promote and market its releases. While films like Houseful 2, Patiala House, Dum Maro Dum and Thank You are making the most of the World Cup matches to reach out to viewers, Zindagi Naa Mile Dobara, Ready and Delhi Belly will use IPL to garb maximum eyeballs during the nearly three-month long cricketing season.
“The best way to strike a chord with the nation at the moment is through cricket. We will launch the title song of Dum Maro Dum during the India-South Africa match in Nagpur. By doing so, we would be able to reach out to the maximum number of people,” said Vijay Singh of Fox Studios.
Sajid Nadiadwala, who has shot a special promo of Houseful 2 for the World Cup, said, “We have been working with the World Cup organizers for quite a few years. This would the first time that a film is being marketed even before it has gone on the floor. Shooting for Houseful 2 will start in April, but the promos are already on air. They are telecast at least 30 times a day during the World Cup matches.”
The returns that one gets through the promotions, said Nadiadwala, are equivalent to the cost of the film and benefit the producer.
The World Cup organizers are being approached by many production houses for collaboration during the games. An ESPN spokesperson said, “We are very selective and have tied up with producers of Patiala House, Houseful 2 and Dum Maro Dum. Deepika will attend the Nagpur match on March 12. Many more such deals may be inked if India makes it to the semi final and final.”
Akshay Kumar-starrer Thank You, slated for April release, will also be marketed aggressively during the World Cup matches. A source from UTV said, “World Cup is one tournament that does not need stars to attract viewers. We are in talks with the organizers.”
Producers are also trying to exploit the popularity of the Indian Premiere League. It is learnt that producers of Delhi Belly, Zindagi Naa Mile Dobara and Ready are close to striking deals. Sneha Rajani of Set Max said, “Nothing has been finalized yet, but such tie-ups usually happen a few weeks before the tournament.”
Bhushan Kumar of T-series which is producing Ready said, “We are in talks with the organizers of IPL. Besides, we also need to work out the dates of Salman Khan, who is shooting for Bodyguard.”Multiplexes and cricket
The World Cup matches are currently being screened only by PVR cinemas. The other multiplex owners are still in talks with the broadcasters of the tournament. CEO of Cinemax Cinemas Sunil Punjabi said, “Nothing has worked out for the World Cup but we are still hopeful of screening the semi finals and the finals. But as of now we have an alternate programming in place which is going to be pan India which is spread over four weeks which includes Hollywood’s sci-fi movies like Avtaar, Inception and 2012, a Rajnikanth films week and regional film festival.”
Big Cinemas will not be screening World Cup matches and will continue with its regular programming . Ashish Saxena, of Big Cinemas said, ” We are definitely looking at screening IPL matches.”
The absence of any big releases in next forty days has made the filmmakers look for alternatives as there would be minimum footfalls in the theatres, which are primary promotional venue for films, during the entire month of March.
March 6, 2011 at 11:04 AM
India are trying their best.. I think losing the toss against Ireland proved to be expensive for the former.. The Irish are good fighters and have some very good fielders
March 6, 2011 at 11:05 AM
Dhoni gone. Not a very good sign for India at the moment
March 6, 2011 at 11:26 AM
they’re fine.. they’ll win this one but it’s certainly concerning that the team was tested chasing 207 against Ire.
March 6, 2011 at 11:33 AM
Overall it was an ok performance from India, not convincing. Ireland have shown to be a decent side, India should still be dominating them but least now with one more win against the Netherlands India are in the Q/F’s.
March 6, 2011 at 11:16 AM
With two sixs and one four Pathan has suddenly changed the complexion of this game.
March 6, 2011 at 2:42 PM
chawla ko koi laat maarke baahar karo yaar.
March 6, 2011 at 3:36 PM
People worry too much.. For India Sachin is always key and I would also say so is Dhoni, Yuvraj.. Remember Dravid and Yuvraj in WC 2003 finishing off after Sachins set up.. Yuvraj had been out of form but touch wood is getting back.. its about peaking at the right time..Anyones WC this
Remember Sri Lanka WC 96 thier attack was heavily spin oriented..Was it just Zoya and Vaas and the spinners? ..With thier bowling attack they shouldnt have won the WC but they did.. Interesting WC so far..Would love it if India can fit in Nehra vs Holland ..Nehra could well be key if he gets fit and gets his confidence up
Anyways keep things in perspective everyone.. off course it be nice if India can do it..
March 6, 2011 at 4:58 PM
Yuvraj had no clue for most part even though he scored 50. He bowled well unlike our regular bowlers by bowling wicket to wicket.
March 7, 2011 at 2:27 PM
Back after a short trip to India where I not only missed out on any cricketing action, but also a chance to see Bachchan in Bhopal! Life’s too busy in India to spare time on cricket & films.
I did follow the match where the Irish upset the English. I felt as tense during the closing moments as I would’ve felt if the Indians were doing the chasing! There’s nothing better than a great underdog story in sport, or life, for that matter.
Missed out on the England Vs SA thriller. Felt disgusted watching India bowl against England, and can’t quite be sure of my initial predictions anymore. This is the most “open” WC ever!
I see a lot of comments made after a certain game is played out, but the manner in which the results have panned out, only suggest a huge element of luck involved in the final outcome. If Pakistan can be threatened by Canada and India have to grit it out against Ireland, one can never be sure of any outcome!
March 7, 2011 at 2:41 PM
great to have you back Saket.. look forward to some of your commentary on the matches..
March 7, 2011 at 3:12 PM
Great to be back at SS!
Thanks to twitter, I came across two excellent articles written in a new (?) journal: Caravan Magazine.
http://www.caravanmagazine.in/Story/768/The-Confidence-Man.html
http://www.caravanmagazine.in/Story/717/Sweet-Smell-of-Success.html
Articles like these and the ones at SS make me an internet addict…
March 7, 2011 at 3:33 PM
thanks someone sent me the second one here but hadn’t seen the first one.. will check it out..
March 8, 2011 at 2:40 AM
satyam,who is dat headless bowler?
March 8, 2011 at 3:01 AM
Shoaib Akhtar
March 8, 2011 at 7:37 AM
Akhtar just gave away the damn match with his totally absurd bowling. that has carried onto the other bowlers now who have totally unraveled. this is what i mean when i say we are too immature.
March 8, 2011 at 7:39 AM
not to take away anything from ross taylor’s batting towards the end.
March 8, 2011 at 7:54 AM
it’s stunning what happened there at the end! Even at the 47.3 mark NZ had 247!
some reporting on some of the comedy of errors at the beginning:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/504761.html
March 8, 2011 at 8:20 AM
they score 100 off the last 5 overs…incredible really
March 8, 2011 at 7:51 AM
100 runs in 5 overs for NZ. WOW. Ross Taylor should’ve been gone TWICE but the fool Kamran Akmal missed on one catch and totally dropped another catch. Good job kamran!!! this shouldn’t happen to a team that is trying to win the WC, this happens to teams that are just happy to be at the WC.
March 8, 2011 at 7:53 AM
Pakistan has been pummeled by New Zealand here. The last 5 overs went for 100 with Akhtar conceding 28 in one over and Razaq 30. Ross Taylor has hit some tremendous sixes. 303 now is a tall order for Pakistan. On a side note Gul was fantastic with speeds approaching 150 ks.
March 8, 2011 at 7:55 AM
Yes. Akmal has been horrible behind the stumps dropping 3 catches.
March 8, 2011 at 8:08 AM
Wow. NZ just ran away with it in the end.Lets see how Pak’s inning goes.
These things happen in one day cricket.
March 8, 2011 at 8:20 AM
114 in the final 6, this is just incredible:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/504761.html
March 8, 2011 at 8:25 AM
What happened to the great Pakistan bowling attack here? Just goes to show no bowling attack is safe in this world cup if a team can hit 100 runs in 30 balls.
March 8, 2011 at 8:35 AM
they’re already 13/1. This might just be one of those great psychological blows that makes it very hard for them to cross this total where on other days they’d have a shot. teams chase 320 or 330 quite regularly these days but the way it ended in the first inning it might have taken a lot out of Pakistan.
March 8, 2011 at 8:36 AM
and the cricinfo piece suggests that with a stronger team to capitalize on Pakistan’s errors early on there would have been even more runs on the board.
March 8, 2011 at 8:47 AM
They just lost their second wicket but importantly Vettori is off the field with a bruised knee. They will need to make up for his bowling. The asking rate is mounting here.
March 8, 2011 at 8:48 AM
Younis gone….23 for 3…looking tough here.
March 8, 2011 at 9:06 AM
30/4, it’s over barring an incredible effort by someone here.
this gets back to a debate I was having with JohnnyBrutal the other day. Sure, all bets are off in WC including the ones about Pakistan owning NZ! Aamirsfan proved to be astute on this point.
Misbah though is a good striker when he gets going. They will need a very massive effort from him to have a chance here.
March 8, 2011 at 8:28 PM
guess im not so stupid after all. LOL.
March 8, 2011 at 9:10 AM
Misbah is not known to score fast. has 5 from 20 balls. Pakistan need a blinder from some one quite like what Obrien did for Ireland to win.
March 8, 2011 at 9:34 AM
it’s 57/5 and Pak looking at some serious humiliation in this match.
March 8, 2011 at 9:48 AM
satyam,in US ,u watch matches on star cricket or some other channel?
March 8, 2011 at 10:35 AM
online is the best option at my end.. but yes you can get a package if you have satellite.
March 8, 2011 at 11:21 AM
feverbaba, Both Dish and DirecTV have a package for the whole wolrd cup for $150. Very importantly this telecast is available in HD which makes a world of a difference.
March 8, 2011 at 9:48 AM
70/6
March 8, 2011 at 11:34 AM
real humbling for Pakistan today..
March 8, 2011 at 11:37 AM
Folded for 192.
March 8, 2011 at 11:40 AM
Pakistan are still going to make the quarters but todays result must be a downer.
March 8, 2011 at 11:48 AM
they’re now tied with NZ on top of their group. But Aus have only played three matches so far and of course had to tie the points with SL because of the rain. I think I would have given them the edge that day. Sangakkara was batting phenomenally but still they’d lost 3 wickets and getting to a really big total wasn’t that likely. But in any case their next one is again Kenya so they have that in the bag.
The India-SA match should be very interesting on the 12th. SA have already lost to Eng and will try not to lose again. India have to be very careful here.
March 8, 2011 at 11:52 AM
by the way India is the only team other than Aus to have not lost a match so far. This has been overlooked. Aus of course haven’t even tied with anyone so far (barring the rain that forced them to get that ‘tie’). But that Eng tie still rankles. India should have won that. Specially since this is the only major team they’ve faced so far.
March 8, 2011 at 12:13 PM
I think India should be ok even if they lose to SA interms of reaching the quarters. I still hope they win. I think with the win over Netherlands tomorrow, India should be through.
March 8, 2011 at 12:14 PM
yes that’s right but I’d to seem them beat a major team..
March 8, 2011 at 12:46 PM
India are thru if they win tomorrow against Netherlands. That would be 7 points, more than enough.
March 8, 2011 at 12:05 PM
from today’s result india vs pakistan quaterfinal looks very likely now
March 8, 2011 at 12:16 PM
Today’s match was over once NZ crossed 250! Sri Lankan pitches overwhelmingly favor the side batting first; it’s not even close — there’s something like an 80/20 split in D/N matches in favor of the side batting first. The wickets too are different from the ones in India. They have low bounce and are designed to aid spin.
So it’s really a contrast in terms of the two groups. Group A teams, namely Australia, Pak, SL & NZ, are playing on altogether different pitches compared to India, SA & England. But as the India-Ireland game suggested, pitches in India are getting baked right now. This was the same Bangalore pitch that produced a run-glut in the India-England, and later, the Eng-Ireland match.
This can only mean one thing: the team which uses its spin options better will have a huge advantage, at least from here on. The QFs will be interesting, as there’s a big chance that teams playing in SL might play in India or Bangladesh, and vice versa.
So if by chance Australia play their Q/F game in India, their bowling will not be as effective. This is because their bowling is heavily dependant on Lee & Tait — both fast bowlers. SA, the side that has displayed the best bowling attack so far, will be at an even bigger advantage in SL! India will be at an advantage playing either in SL or India. Although in SL, the lopsided nature of D/N games means the toss becomes more important than anything else!
March 8, 2011 at 12:18 PM
Good points all around,Saket.
March 8, 2011 at 12:19 PM
“there’s something like an 80/20 split in D/N matches in favor of the side batting first. ”
I should qualify that statement. It assumes that the side batting first has at least 225 runs on board. Obviously, if a side gets bowled out for less than 100, it’s not going to work out the same.
March 8, 2011 at 12:20 PM
very valuable, enlightening points here Saket.. thanks.. does make for a very chancy tournament in some ways..
March 8, 2011 at 12:29 PM
Saket/ Munna- Someone posted a Video of Sidhu’s take on Sachin getting hurt and then subsequently hiiting Akhtar for a boundry in Pakistan ….Is there a video od sachin getting hurt and then hitting him for a four somewhere ??
March 8, 2011 at 12:41 PM
I remember, quite vividly, Sachin’s debut test match. He was all of 16 then. In that game, Waqar Younis, who was also making his debut at age 19, bowled a snorter that hit Sachin on his nose, and he started bleeding.
After a round with the physio, he came back and hit Waqar for at least a couple of fours and ended up with a half century! Even before that game, I saw him belt Abdul Qadir for 27, in a single over, scoring 50 of 18 balls, in a practice game. I began to worship him then and there!
March 8, 2011 at 12:43 PM
Both the games were in Pakistan, during the 1989 series. This was India’s tour of Pakistan under Srikant’s captaincy. Imran Khan captained Pakistan during the series, and Manjrekar scored a special double ton in Faislabad, if I recall correctly. Sidhu and Shastri used to open for India, back then.
March 8, 2011 at 12:47 PM
Scratch that; it used to be Srikant & Shastri. Sidhu & Manjrekar used to follow. Sachin used to bat down the order.
March 8, 2011 at 12:45 PM
yes and Waqar said later that the way Sachin played after that injury he realized this was someone special.
March 8, 2011 at 12:53 PM
In those days, it was normal to have helmets without visors on them. That’s why Sachin got injured in the first place. Nowadays it’s unthinkable to play without visors!
Not only Sachin, Srikant & Manjrekar got nasty injuries because of the absence of visors during those days. It used to be really a sick scene to watch batsmen spitting blood on the pitch!
Bradman didn’t even have proper pads & gloves to play against Larwood, in contrast!
March 8, 2011 at 12:55 PM
Gavaskar resisiting wearing helmets for the longest time…
March 8, 2011 at 12:58 PM
Yeah, but Gavaskar used to wear a head guard under his cap. Viv Richards didn’t even wear a head guard!
Though, to be fair, he did not have to face his own fearsome quartet!
March 8, 2011 at 1:45 PM
LOL, true!
March 8, 2011 at 1:00 PM
my most memorable gavaskar innings was his Rocking Century at Kotla grounds against Marshall etall….all his critics were stunned !!
March 8, 2011 at 1:04 PM
Yeah, he scored it in 90+ balls, including some hook shots, which he had never played before.
His only ODI century in the ’87 WC was also a treat.
March 8, 2011 at 1:45 PM
yeah Bradman averaged 56 or so in the infamous bodyline series. A great average by any other standards but Bradman’s own. But this wasn’t like the fearsome West Indies attack where one could get some very menacing bouncers and so on. Here the ball was actually aimed at the body! So to face that kind of bowling without contemporary protection and to still average that was pretty remarkable.
March 9, 2011 at 4:09 PM
Perhaps the most famous example of bloodied nose without visor still remains Vengsarkar against Marshall(at least 3 or 4 times and most famously in 83 WC after which he was rested).
Even in early 90s visors were not so much full proof.I remember a test match in which Walsh broke Prakakar’s nose within visors.
March 8, 2011 at 12:45 PM
here is Sidhu’s video-
would love to see sachin’s video P.S.. also loved the way Sidhu describes- Sidhu got bowled and as he was coming back and Kapil was walking in Kapil goes- Sardar Ball dikhai nahee deti hai kya …. and then Kapil himself gets clean bowled on the first delivery !! LOL
March 8, 2011 at 1:19 PM
Siddhu in this video reminded me of Anil Kapoor in Taal……………..Bindaaas !!!
March 9, 2011 at 3:58 PM
Saket,it was the 4th match in which sachin was hit by waqar.Infact sachin was out for 15 in the first match,he was being beaten by pace of rank half volleys outside ofstump which even sachin later mentioned.
And the practise match before odi series in which sachin hit qaader was lost by India.India required 4 runs to win in the last over with srikanth and sachin on strike but still.
March 9, 2011 at 4:35 PM
It was an official match turned into exhibition match due to rain
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/story/145713.html
Srikanth was playing very unlike Srikanth.
March 9, 2011 at 4:36 PM
Scorecard
http://www.cricketime.com/archive/index.php/t-9050.html
March 8, 2011 at 1:02 PM
has anyone played or heard of book cricket? it was very popular when i was growing up …..
March 8, 2011 at 1:27 PM
you open the book and look at the page number 0= out , 123456 were respective runs, 7 was wide , 8 was no ball, 9 was run out.- or something like that. LOL!!
March 8, 2011 at 1:08 PM
The 80s were favorable to the Indian cricket team. But damn, look at the players we had: Shastri, Madan Lal, Roger Binny, Balvinder Sandhu, Lakshman Shivramkrishnan!!
These guys were decidedly mediocre even by the standards prevalant in the 80s! And yet, we won the WC & the World Series based on their contributions.
March 8, 2011 at 1:15 PM
Madan lal was a survivor and kind of TINA ( there is no option)….. and there was Karsan Ghavri
March 8, 2011 at 1:18 PM
I think Harbhajan Singh bowls faster than Ghavri’s quickest deliveries! LOL
Most of these guys came from the metros; there was a strong Bombay lobby, which explains the presence of players like Lalchand Rajput, Raju Kulkarni even late into the 90s. Back in those days, one had to either represent Bombay or play for Delhi to get selected. Kapil Dev was the one notable exception, and nobody could ignore his natural talent!
March 8, 2011 at 1:22 PM
LOL On Ghavri !!
March 8, 2011 at 1:50 PM
I actually think Lalchand Rajput, Chandrakant Pandit and Sanjay Manjrekar suffered because they were from Bombay.They could have played a lot more international cricket but got sidelined prematurely.
March 8, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Manjrekar was in love with his own technique! He destroyed his own career, I think.
Chandrakant Pandit never fulfilled his promise as a batsman-wicket keeper. Perhaps there was some politics in play, because his replacement, Kiran More was not special as a batsman either.
The best wicket keeper, during that period used to be Sadanand Vishwanath, and he in fact played for India during the World Series in Australia. His demise was even quicker than Siva’s, unfortunately.
March 8, 2011 at 1:16 PM
Those bit players played their part well. Sivaram was not mediocre IMO.He could be unplayable at times.
March 8, 2011 at 1:28 PM
yeah, but his fall was instantaneous. Perhaps nobody bothered because he wasn’t a Bombay player?
March 8, 2011 at 1:47 PM
Sivaramakrishnan looked to be special for a while but somehow fizzled out.
March 8, 2011 at 1:47 PM
LOL but those were exactly the kinds of bowlers who were anathema to a WI team that loved its stroke-play!
March 8, 2011 at 1:18 PM
@ Saket: We won the world cup and the world series with these mediocre players but used to suffer heavy losses to majority of teams in regular series; both test and one days. The West Indies toured India after the 1983 world cup and gave us a spanking with Marshall being unplayable.
March 8, 2011 at 1:22 PM
Yes, I remember very well. Australia came to India and thrashed us too! Even England under David Gower, beat us 2-1!! Those were some shameful times.
But even then, between ’83 & ’85, in the ODIs at least, India won against all major countries, with the wins in the WC, the World Series and Sharjah (Pakistan bundled out for 87 runs) being the major highlights.
March 8, 2011 at 1:30 PM
I distinctly remember the England Gower series. Azhar made his debut and hit 2 or 3 centuries back to back on his debut. Neil Foster along with Richard Ellison used to be the front line seam bowlers whereas Pat Pocock used to bowl his off spinners.
March 8, 2011 at 1:41 PM
Gower was one classy player. His lazy elegance was even more impressive than Azhar’s, simply because he was a leftie. I became a diehard Azhar fan after that series…till 2001!
March 8, 2011 at 2:10 PM
though Azhar never quite replicated the blaze of glory he arrived in with those three centuries. At his best he was of course a delight to watch specially in 1990 in England. One of those fine wristy players Hyderabad seems to specialize in! But a very large majority of his centuries really came on subcontinental wickets. And specially if you subtract that one good Eng tour in 1990 (he also of course had a century in NZ that year) the overwhelming majority were not scored outside of India/Pak/SL. Perhaps he could have done more as a player but in any case he can never be put up there with Laxman. Ganguly to my mind had a somewhat similar problem as well. This is not really true for Laxman who of course even at home was most prolific against Aus. Now having said that one should perhaps not play the colonial game of lumping every kind of subcontinental pitch together.
March 8, 2011 at 2:01 PM
And there was Benson and Hedges World Championship of Cricket where people use to rise early to see girls in bikinis
March 8, 2011 at 2:05 PM
A slip on your part, Munna. This confession.
Most of us were actually watching cricket. Those chicks were a fringe benefit.
March 8, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Or cricket was fringe benefit when Ravi Shahstri use to dance down the wicket just to defend the ball
March 8, 2011 at 1:35 PM
Kapil was dropped by Gavaskar during that time for getting out after hitting six instead of defending.
March 8, 2011 at 1:36 PM
Not Gavaskar but selectors.
March 8, 2011 at 1:38 PM
Well Gavaskar was the captain and things were not well between them.
March 8, 2011 at 1:37 PM
Yes I remember that vividly. That decision was highly controversial!
March 8, 2011 at 1:39 PM
Yeah, and Kapil had to apologize to Gavaskar!
Some of these players had gigantic egos. Mohinder Amarnath and Kapid didn’t get along very well. Sidhu packed his bags and came to India, in the middle of an overseas trip, because he was dropped. Manoj Prabhakar was a grade A asshole!
Azhar gave Sachin some dose of Maa Behen when the latter ran him out in NZ!
Those were some good times
March 8, 2011 at 1:20 PM
If Sivaram didn’t go the booze and women route he could have done wonders. He was a genuine spin prospect.
March 8, 2011 at 1:25 PM
He took 18 test wickets in his first 3 test innings (6-6-6, in terms of real breakdown) and then next to nothing after. Was it really the devil’s work?
March 8, 2011 at 1:39 PM
Maninder singh was another good prospect but used to flight the ball a lot and lacked variation. Iqbal Quassim got the better of him in the famous Banglore test on a turning wicket that we lost to Pakistan. It was Gavaskars final test and his 96 was the highlight of the test.
March 8, 2011 at 1:43 PM
Maninder was a real talent. No doubt about that. He just wasn’t handled well by Indian selectors/board.
March 8, 2011 at 2:07 PM
But he was more known for his inability to bat. Later on he batted well but the (in)famous Chennai Tied Test was alwas associated with him when Matthews LBWed him for last wicket.
March 8, 2011 at 2:13 PM
And also in Reliance Worldcup, first match where India lost by 1 run to Australia, Maninder was the last wicket.
March 8, 2011 at 2:26 PM
Yeah, but he was always the #11 batsman!
In comparison, the legendary B Chandrashekhar, has more wickets in his career than runs scored!
March 8, 2011 at 2:18 PM
Satyam, I saw the ’96 WC game between India & WI live in Gwalior. It was a D/N game, and the WI used to have Ambrose & Walsh in their side.
India did well to restrict WI to less than 200 in the first innings. In the 2nd half, when India came on to bat, Ambrose bowled Jadeja & Sidhu, in the same over (the 2nd over, I think) and since I was sitting side on, I saw with my own eyes, the stumps fly at least 25m from their original position! Ambrose was spitting fire that night.
Azhar & Sachin stitched together a partnership, and even though Azhar only scored some 32 odd runs (Sachin scored a match-winning half century), he was the more stylish player in view. Even more stylish than Sachin! The fact that he turned out to be such a rotten character later on, hurt me, personally, quite a lot! For a long long time, he was my hero!
March 8, 2011 at 2:42 PM
yeah it’s true, his later life really became sordid!
March 8, 2011 at 2:48 PM
of course nothing was as sordid as a Shastri-Amrita Singh-Vinod Khanna triangle! Or maybe it was technically not a triangle.
March 9, 2011 at 12:11 AM
and i remember that ball… the one you are saying.. i was a huge fan of ambrose in my childhood
ps- did ambrose also clean bowled sachin in that match?
March 11, 2011 at 2:16 PM
Hi Rooney! I thought you were going to be more active after 6th March?
Anyways, to answer your question, no Ambrose did not snare Sachin in that particular game. He was run out towards the fag end of the match.
March 9, 2011 at 12:14 AM
brilliant ball, and good humour
March 9, 2011 at 12:36 AM
March 9, 2011 at 6:18 AM
Netherland struggling at 107/5…..india will cruise into next round easily
March 9, 2011 at 6:19 AM
108/6 now !!!! its crumbling
March 9, 2011 at 8:08 AM
but again something that I feared happened.. to let Holland score 189 after being 108/6 is far too much.
March 9, 2011 at 8:40 AM
80/1.
March 9, 2011 at 8:41 AM
sorry 80/2.Silly shot by Sachin
March 9, 2011 at 8:47 AM
82/3
March 9, 2011 at 9:01 AM
rajen
someone at sb said “looks like India want to finish this off early”
I say,’ looks like india want to finish themselves early’
March 9, 2011 at 9:08 AM
99/4
March 9, 2011 at 9:35 AM
it’s 137/4 right now but again the point stands, it shouldn’t be so hard to get to 189 against Holland. They were clearly just whacking the ball at one point but whatever the strategy you can’t lose so many wickets.
March 9, 2011 at 9:42 AM
139/5 !!
March 9, 2011 at 10:19 AM
It’s 170/5, they’re not losing this one! So let’s get that out of the way. As for the rest I have been saying it from the first day, the bowling has so far not put up a credible show. As for the batting yes I would consider this a disappointing performance. Now it’s clear that they don’t approach Holland with the mindset that they did Eng when they put up that big score. But the point precisely is that Aus for example are ruthless in these matters. They will bundle out a Holland for 50 if they possibly can and then pummel the bowling as well. So there is something to be said for not having a different mindset in different games beyond the obvious tactical adjustments that are needed against different opponents.
Having said all this pacing is important in such a tournament too. As long as they keep getting their wins I’m not too concerned. The only reason I express pessimism at points is because they’ve played one major opponent so far where they should really have won the game though on the flip side they batted better against them than they did against much weaker teams. So a somewhat underwhelming performance against Holland does not necessarily mean much in other situations. It might be part of a team’s plan or at least mindset to not go fully out against really weak sides. Which is why the Eng performance says much more. Or for that matter Pak’s against NZ yesterday because ‘that’ could not have been part of the plan. Of for that matter Eng/SA where the latter couldn’t even get to 170. But again Aus at their best are like a machine mowing down everything in sight. But most other teams don’t work that way and even Aus couldn’t win every WC playing that way. So there are lots of other factors in play too.
March 9, 2011 at 10:41 AM
Well, India got it done.
Am glad in a way that Yuvraj and Dhoni are getting tested and coming thru, albeit against the weaker opposition. These two aree vital in the later games. Am less worried about the top four batsmen. These two are more likely to be integral in run chases and more likley to have to play under pressure.
March 9, 2011 at 11:52 AM
Somewhat disappointed wid India’s Performance…Only positive thing is Yuvi getting back to form…Bhajji not getting wickets is still a major concern…
March 9, 2011 at 1:39 PM
Missed tis match due to a hectic schedule!!
Anyhow, just skimmed thru the scorecard.
In the final summary, doesnt matter much now that india is onto the next round(in all probability)
As has been seen in the previous world cups, the key is to peak at the right time. In the case of indias bowling, its really concern.
But good to see nehra back—how did he actually bowl?
He is good at the death overs!
Bhajji needs a kick on his back side —he is convinced that he is irreaplacable–should be given a scare.
Wont be bothered about much as of now…
hope (and feel ) that dhoni is practical—The team needs to save itself for the next round…
The main thing is to avoid injury to ey players till the next round
March 9, 2011 at 1:41 PM
i am sachins biggest fan….
cannot emphasise it more…
But as always, i dont mind teasing out the personality of my idols (as in bachchans case)
Why does sachin open in one days but goes down the order in test matches esp on difficult pitches…
I think i know the answer but what is the “official” reason, folks??
March 9, 2011 at 1:48 PM
that’s simple, he is not an opener. He had to become one in one days because India sorely needed one. It is actually one of the great testaments to his gifts that he could be so prolific in one days playing an opener for so long. As for tests I’m surprised you haven’t considered that some of the greatest batsmen in history played one down or two down. In any case you don’t make some of your best bats openers in tests. That would be wasting a wicket. It’s not about who is greater. It’s about a different toolkit that is required.
March 9, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Agree with most of that..
“He had to become one in one days because India sorely needed one”—One has to ask gambhir—pooor fellow opens in tests but is pushed down the order in one-days when the fielders are deliciously up??
March 9, 2011 at 3:44 PM
ambrose was the macgrath of 80′s(or i would say great macgrath took his inspiration from ambrose) … a little more taller but had the ability to land the ball continiouslly on same length time and again with even more pace
and ya yuvraj is now very close to become highest wicket taker by an indian left arm spinner in odi’s
i guess he is only just behind shastri
March 9, 2011 at 3:47 PM
McGrath was a fine bowler but I’d take Ambrose over him any day of the week. Richards once suggested that Ambrose was better than most of the bowlers in those great West Indian batteries because he did it without the same kind of support (Walsh presumably did not cut it for him, Ambrose played half his career with him). Incidentally he debuted in the very late 80s. Most of his career was in the 90s. He has a claim to being considered the greatest pace bowler of his generation.
March 9, 2011 at 4:30 PM
Satyam,Ambrose was certainly better than Mcgrath with more pace,but best bowler of his generation!You are leaving out a certain Wasim.
March 9, 2011 at 4:40 PM
No I didn’t forget Wasim. I just suggested there was a debate to be had there. Wouldn’t quarrel with anyone who picked Wasim. But wouldn’t quarrel with anyone who picked Ambrose either.
March 9, 2011 at 5:08 PM
Satyam,i don’t think there is much of a debate there.The closest thing to Wasim in 90s were ambrose,donald and waqar.But the later three had obvious limitations-waqar was anodyne with new ball,amrose needed bouncier tracks and donald needed green pastures.I doubt if any one could fight with Wasim’s flagrant versatility1
March 11, 2011 at 2:12 PM
Having watched Ambrose uproot stumps and blow them away like mere twigs, on a lifeless Gwalior pitch, I’m more inclined to give Ambrose the edge over Akram. As fond as I am of watching the latter’s picture-perfect bowling action.
The thing with the West Indian greats was, they not only posed a threat to a batsman’s wicket, but also to his life!
March 11, 2011 at 3:55 PM
LOL, on the last bit! But otherwise I think it’s very much up for debate.
March 9, 2011 at 3:50 PM
“Why does sachin open in one days but goes down the order in test matches esp on difficult pitches…”
why lara , waugh , bradman , richards etc never opened in tests
cmmon its a specialist job
gambhir is young and onus on him to be more flexible and he has done the job earlier at 3
best position of sachin is opening and people will realise when india will play against better pace attacks
March 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM
abhishrekr—-agree with that about wasim akram…
and note…he did that with diabetes (that too insulin dependent diabetes melitus….lol)
By the way—still havent been able to convince myself of a valid reason to explain to explain the sheer extreme disparity of genuine pacers from india and pakistan…….any ideas welcum!!!!
March 9, 2011 at 5:43 PM
Alex,infact this has been my biggest grudge, why can’t India produce such fast bowlers.I mean everytime we hear someone possesing express pace such as david johnson,tinu yohanan.munaf etal and nowadays a boy varun aaron from jharkhand but when they arrive at international scene they somehow clock in 130s.
Regarding our sub continental neighbours 92 WC was my first cricket experience and i still vividly remember the way my grandfather would literally abuse Imran(by then a spent force,he would recount his bowling in 83 test series numerous times) and Wasim.Infact he didn’t thought too much of waqar,just a one trick pony bowling his in swinging yorkers with the old ball compared to his 2 other compatriots.Probably i inherited this trait from him as always i wished ah! if only we would have have such a pace attack(its always more easier to connect with pak rather than WI or aussies).
March 9, 2011 at 5:47 PM
Iffron—-as a rational person , there is no point in “abusing” imran, as u probably know…
And also beofre comparing to aus, WI, one can and should compare with pak…
U hear stupid arguments like vegetarian diet etc whcih is absolutely idiotic…
the nore one thinks of it, the more one does NOT get a valdi explanation.
Comments/ explanantions welcum, folks…..
March 10, 2011 at 3:20 AM
alex i am not granny or grandfather lol
ya wasim was the best of lot simply because he had the ability to bowl six different deleivries in an over
even waqar in his late part of his career faded and was not the same attacking bowler he was but wasim reinvented himself
cmmon reason is simple these guys where picked from street by imran(so do sohaib by wasim and company) and where directly put in cricket training camps (imran who single handedly owned the rule in 80′s to and 90′s and where picked very young )
in india just to much cricket from junior to ranji level systematically result in fatigue or breakdown though it had now also destroyed most of young pakistani pacers after a brilliant start in last decade simply because of improper guidance
March 10, 2011 at 3:24 AM
“I mean everytime we hear someone possesing express pace such as david johnson,tinu yohanan.munaf etal and nowadays a boy varun aaron from jharkhand”
they where never picked at young age
munaf was quick but even he had to wait 4-5 years to get through and look at him now
infact early years of javagal srinath who was extemely quick got lost
March 9, 2011 at 4:00 PM
“why lara , waugh , bradman , richards etc never opened in tests”—iffron—but as far as i know–these gentlemen did NOT suddenly open in one days and t20s either!!
Its this selective opening ONLY in one days which has caught my radar!!!
March 9, 2011 at 4:04 PM
“icidentally he debuted in the very late 80s. Most of his career was in the 90s. He has a claim to being considered the greatest pace bowler of his generation.”
ya and macgrath in 95 or 96
macgrath was totally inspired from him but overall ambrose was the better bowler but macgrath gets more accolades thanks to the better team
March 9, 2011 at 4:09 PM
“but as far as i know–these gentlemen did NOT suddenly open in one days and t20s either!!”
well mr sachin tendulkar batted at number 4 when sehwag refused to do so in 2007 wc thanks to greg chappel( and accpted by him in press) and result was there to see
lara tried his hand in opening in odi’s but was not sucessful
March 9, 2011 at 4:16 PM
http://www.mid-day.com/opinion/2011/feb/100111-Sachin-Tendulkar-Greg-Chappell-Batting-positions.htm
March 9, 2011 at 4:20 PM
Dhoni said sometime back in an interview when asked about how he guided Sachin that there was nothing he could possibly say to Sachin that he wasn’t already aware of. I think all those who ‘coach’ Sachin in any sense should follow this sensible dictum! But this is so for any number of great players. Specially once they have a certain experience behind them whatever the situation is they surely understand it. What does one tell Dravid? Or Laxman? On a related note Steve Waugh once said he liked talking to many batsmen about their strengths and weaknesses and he learnt a lot from them. All except Lara and Tendulkar because these guys were such geniuses at it that they couldn’t really talk about it in an objective sense, i.e. forgetting for a while that certain things were possible only for the Laras and Sachins of the world! The English novelist David Mitchell once talked to A S Byatt when he was stumped on the book he was writing at the time (since then published as the Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet) about making the characters and their situations come to life in a historical setting and Byatt’s response which amused Mitchell to no end was “why don’t you make it interesting?”!
March 9, 2011 at 4:22 PM
“and result was there to see”—wjatever way u look at it, this particular aspect has/ will always irked me about tendulkar.
Why was tendulkar not so successful at no4???
It is more difficult, no doubt at no 4..
there is a different skill set–not that a person of tendulkars capability could not have handled it with time…
The likes of dhoni deserve and need “rest” more often than they get—-tendulkar seems to be the one who has an “immunity” as to which series his highness wishes to skip due to “injury” and whihc one he wishes to “open in”
Having said, tandulkar is a modern epic icon—there is nothing wrong in giving hiim some “concessions” but it is not blasphemous to point ot those “concessions”!!lol
would like sakets views here…
March 9, 2011 at 4:30 PM
C’mon Alex, Sachin has been if anything over-exposed to one days. On some other teams he would just be playing tests. But here is playing the IPL at his age as well. And this troubles me because specially at that age you are one injury away from ending your career. But there is no one more of a team professional than he is. Amazed to hear you say that.
March 9, 2011 at 4:33 PM
“Why was tendulkar not so successful at no4???
It is more difficult, no doubt at no 4..”
he is but he is mor sucssful at 4 …
isn’t gambhir a good player of spin infact making him bat at 3 makes much more sense and at present he is just out of touch as he hardly played th last series
gambhir batted best against in wc so far with sachin only against england and even it was evidnt an aging tendulkar was much mor strokeful than gautam
satyam : on coach front … gary is his junior
well he debuted 7 years after sachin and is retired and coachingand that says all
sachin tendulkar himself have much mor greater cricketing sense to know what is better for team
March 9, 2011 at 4:38 PM
iffron—its not only about gambhir and gary kirsten…tendulkar has been the epic who has stood firm when many gars and gambhirs have come and gone!!
My only plea is why someone like tendulkar needs to resort to this “selective” opening ONLY in one-days not in tests.
I have opened batting in county conditions and knows what tendulkar “knows” about opening with a moving ball!!
March 9, 2011 at 4:52 PM
Because I think Sachin is sane enough to value tests more than one days! Even in an age where the conversation about cricket and some of its conditions have become debased in some ways no one considers one days to be the equivalent of tests. Yes in terms of the stats one has to look at everything but the true measure of caliber is still the longer format of the game.
As for opening bit he made adjustments for a one day game but judging by your argument he should be willing to play at any position! Who does that? Other than Sobers?! Your question is rather bizarre.
March 9, 2011 at 4:53 PM
Man you are determined to score high on the ‘outrage meter’ today!
March 9, 2011 at 4:38 PM
“he is but he is more sucssful at 1…”
March 9, 2011 at 4:42 PM
“But here is playing the IPL at his age as well.”—-With due respect, IPL is like a ‘bonanza” for cricketers,…
For anyone who has played cricket at ANY level in ANY country, earning this sort of money for three weeks—–there is only ONE motivation in IPL—so nobody is doing anybody a favor (except oneself) by playing in IPL..
I have personally attended one of the post IPL “parties” and know what is the level of “perks” involved!!!!!!
March 9, 2011 at 4:47 PM
for a guy who was supposedly worth 200 crores some years ago I doubt that’s the reason. I think it’s really a ‘playing for Bombay’ thing for him more than anything else. Beyond this Sachin is such an addict of the game he’s play every single thing if he could. He sometimes shows up at Bombay clubs and starts playing over there as well!
March 9, 2011 at 4:46 PM
to each his own alex but sachin opening in odi’s only make the balance of team good
dude he did in s.a in 2003 and even has a pretty good record in england in odi’s at opener
and tell you one thing the last we won the test series in eng in 2007 sachin again played a crucial role in that when in those moving condition rahul dravid failed big time
March 9, 2011 at 4:53 PM
iffron—-sachin is not only the biggest indian sportsman ever, leave alone cricketer…
Infact many count him amongst the most influential indian in post independence india…
and I agree to that..
He is definitely the BEST one day opener Inida has ever had or will have!
The question is —why is this question of “sacrifice” come when it comes to tests…..
Gavaskar did not score the highest no of runs (b4 10dulkar) in tests due to this “sacrifice”!
If u can stand upto the nw ball in one days and u enjoy the field restrications, why do u send a gambhir b4 u in tests..
U should be consistent like sehwag and open in both!!!!!
March 9, 2011 at 4:56 PM
Alex I’m amazed you think opening in one days is like opening in tests! Are you serious? If you are an opener you can open in both. Sachin isn’t an opener. He adapted his game for the one day format. Incidentally Sehwag has always felt that he needed to bat in the middle order, certainly in tests but the team couldn’t accommodate him for one reason or another. When he was failing for a while they tried it out and it didn’t make much difference. By the way you’re simply assuming that as long as there’s a good opener the rest of the positions are somehow easier to bat in and everything else falls into place. If that were true India with Gavaskar would be the best side in the world!
March 9, 2011 at 5:04 PM
well alex he is not … i would still rate dhyanchand as the greatest sportsman ever
gavaskar was a natural opener and so is gambhir and you need specialists for this
remember how laxman and dravin who where forced became failure as opener in tests
in odi’s its a different matter alltogether and you need your best to bat longer
india’s second most sucessful opener in odi ganguly to was not a regular test opener
March 9, 2011 at 5:13 PM
Ifrron—a player does not come labelled on his forehead or private parts —-”I AM AN OPENER”
u cannot score tons of runs and centuries (with field restrictions) and then suddenly declare that ” my forehead or private part has no tatoo proclaiming me to be an opener”
I speak from personal experience—-I tried doing this “swap” in a minor county team and this “smartness” was flagged up!!!!
But obviously, the indian tam managemetn has rightly treated tendulkar as a “special” case!!!—lol
anyhow—all this talk is of no import—am happy thsat india has made the next round and thats what matters right now..
Anyhow, whoever has not checked mukul kesavans link on pakistan team needs to read that passage—an absoluely swashbuckling writeup—perhaps one of the most witty that i have ver read—plz revisit…..
March 9, 2011 at 5:25 PM
The other standout point for india is the decisive ri=ole being pakyed by yuvraj in both the ireland and netherland match.
Note that he did NOT do as well against test playing england..
The worry is that this lacuna will be xposed agaist the bigger teams in the next round…
March 9, 2011 at 5:37 PM
just watched some “highlights” from ind netherlands match…
By the way—not sure y pathan was sent at no3—nnot that it mattered, but it wasnt a dire situation anyhow–powerplay was taken but what was the need to risk and then ladn onto 90 odd for 4??
Saw a shot by pathan—just “flicked” a ball from the spinner for Six.
Amazing—–it wasnt a pacer where he could use the pace of the ball!!!
March 9, 2011 at 11:32 PM
http://www.cricages.com/sachin-zone/tendulkar-vs-ponting-a-statistical-analysis/
March 10, 2011 at 12:16 AM
did ‘johnnybrutal’ get banned or somethin..where was he after pakistan’s loss and india’s win??? hmmm….
March 10, 2011 at 12:21 AM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/504959.html
it’s about damn time they change the keeper. Kamran is a joke of a cricket player. if they are seriously considering changing they should change it against a team like zimbabwe rather than the aussie’s.
March 10, 2011 at 1:04 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple%2F110309_cricket_baseball&sportCat=mlb
March 10, 2011 at 1:23 AM
i have played both baseball and cricket. and batting wise…i found cricket batting to be much tougher. bowling wise i think cricket is easier and much more fun, especially when you clean bowl a batter, what a feeling!!!
March 10, 2011 at 9:32 AM
this is really turning out to be a day for the openers! Would be a blow for SL if they lost another one here. They’ve already lost to Pakistan. Had to tie with Aus because of the rain.
March 10, 2011 at 10:03 AM
I think at 137-3 after 25 overs, Zimbabwe are officially done.
March 10, 2011 at 10:26 AM
now it’s 156/6, they’re just going to lose badly now after that great start. Murali has of course brought about these breakthroughs tons of times.
March 10, 2011 at 11:29 AM
“did ‘johnnybrutal’ get banned or somethin..where was he after pakistan’s loss and india’s win??? hmmm….”—hahahaha aamirsfan!
At the risk of repetition, need to compliment mukul kesavan on his writeup about the theatrics of the pakistan team—no offence—just high on entertainment value.
Should go into the “hall of fame” of any site, if there is one..
March 10, 2011 at 11:33 AM
Where did sangakaara get that ” multi-faceted” accent from!!!!
Murali throws occasionally…(agree with bishan bedi to an extent)…
Malinga is one of the top3 pacers right now (with dale steyn), HIs action is not only wierd but highly suspect. NOt sure how lankans get away with SO MANY chuckers!!!
March 10, 2011 at 1:39 PM
Iffron–a good attempt by you to explain the stark historical disparity in the number of genuine pacers from india and pak—Im stilol not convinced of the reasons given…
“cmmon reason is simple these guys where picked from street by imran(so do sohaib by wasim and company) and where directly put in cricket training camps”—I can already see imran/akram roaming the streets (esp late nite) looking for good “deals” in redlight areas!!lol
Iffron–read this–”u cannot score tons of runs and centuries (with field restrictions) and then suddenly declare that ” my forehead or private part has no tatoo proclaiming me to be an opener”
March 10, 2011 at 3:25 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=isaacson_melissa&id=6179899
March 10, 2011 at 3:58 PM
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMCY3xCsGmA&w=480&h=390
One of my favorite ODI batsmen of all time, the “ideal” ODI player…
March 10, 2011 at 4:03 PM
I use to love his straight sixes of fast bowlers.
March 10, 2011 at 4:12 PM
No heavy bats, no short boundaries…he still hit them far and wide! And look at his running between the wickets; need to reiterate: the “ideal” ODI player…
March 10, 2011 at 4:25 PM
He along with Boon and Marsh were India’s achilles heel.
Of course there was Bevan who use to convert singles to 2s and 2s to 3s and rarely hit boundries.
March 10, 2011 at 4:41 PM
Sachin, in his prime, and Dhoni till date, are the only 2 Indian players who seem to have learnt how to play the ODI game. Literally!
The ODI game isn’t about hitting 6s & 4s. It’s about hard running between the wickets, rotating the strike and biding one’s time till the final assault. This is an inviolate rule that’s always worked, and yet 99% of the batsmen go for “glory” shots, risking their wickets in the process. It looks great when it comes off, but more often than not, it costs the team dear!
March 10, 2011 at 4:02 PM
The moment that defined the ’92 World Cup…
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMHpZpwvPdM&fs=1&hl=en_GB
March 10, 2011 at 4:10 PM
I thought the game changer was NewZealand’s unwillingness to play Semis in Australia. They threw one match to Pakistan and everything changed. Inzi just massacred in the small fields of NewZealand.
March 10, 2011 at 4:15 PM
I meant to say, the one “image” that describes the most outstanding moment in that WC — Jonty Rhodes’ run out changed the way in which everyone looked at fielding from that point onwards.
March 11, 2011 at 12:50 PM
Absolutely agree Saket… what an amazing piece of fielding…. !!!!
March 10, 2011 at 5:24 PM
“The ODI game isn’t about hitting 6s & 4s. It’s about hard running between the wickets, rotating the strike and biding one’s time till the final assault. This is an inviolate rule that’s always worked, and yet 99% of the batsmen go for “glory” shots, risking their wickets in the process. It looks great when it comes off, but more often than not, it costs the team dear!”
1)Saket-absolutely agree with you there–see above.
2)I maybe in a minority but i really enjoyed indias runchase agaist ireland.
People have criticised the lack of “dominance” but i dont really bother. its about peaking at the right time(if there is one eventuallly)
No point in getting 10 wicket wins and then lose in the semifinals like NZ, SA…..
The way dhoni and yuvraaj batted without ego and misconceptions with their heads down on a slow wicket was actually more difficult–Being the captain of the cricket superpower against a minnow team—needs maturity and restraint which both of them showed—what do u feel
3) if u see my poser above about sachin choosing to open in onedays (with field restrictions) but conveniently becuming a “non opener” in tests—what do u feel
March 11, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Alex, not sure I follow your ‘poser’ about Sachin…
March 11, 2011 at 3:54 PM
I’m not sure I follow how Alex was an opener at any level of the game and could still ask the most elementary of questions!
March 11, 2011 at 11:50 AM
Bangladesh defeat England! India have a real chance to remain at the top of the group with a win over South Africa.
March 11, 2011 at 11:54 AM
quite pleased with this result..
By the way the very unpredictable nature of this tournament confirms some of the points Saket’s been making..
March 11, 2011 at 2:03 PM
I think England lost the match. At one point of time Bangladesh were struggling at 169/8! What followed was a depressing spectacle of pedestrian bowling by James Anderson, England’s star of the Ashes. There were wides galore; England, in fact bowled 23 wides defending 225, effectively making their own score 202!
The English would like to blame it on the dew, but their bowling attack ALSO allowed Ireland to coast home after being 111/5. The same attack, however, defended a score of 171! Overall, England’s bowling attack has been a huge disappointment. The stark contrast with the Ashes exploits is what makes it doubly disappointing.
March 11, 2011 at 1:27 PM
The only predictable team has been Australia….even in the match against Srilanka which was rained out they had the upper hand.
March 11, 2011 at 1:29 PM
they haven’t played too much so far though I do agree they probably had the edge against SL the other day assuming Sangakkara wasn’t going to hit 150.
March 11, 2011 at 2:07 PM
The Sri Lankan pitches have indeed helped Australian bowlers so far. Their ground fielding makes the bowling look even better. It would be in their interest to ensure that they play their knock-out matches in SL…
March 11, 2011 at 4:18 PM
“The only predictable team has been Australia….even in the match against Srilanka which was rained out they had the upper hand.”–lol–cumment of the day—pranav chaawal!!
March 12, 2011 at 4:05 AM
NOt sure i agree with all the hype/pressure and importance to this india-sa team–its always good to win these “prestige” matches to vindicate who is the favorite, but as far as these two teams are concnerenced, the real test beings in the quarter finals and they shouls dave the best for the last…
Interseting info—sehawag has hit the ifrst ball for 4 in all the matches in the wc till now. Did the same to steyn today—Now that is a UNIQUE mindset–an unmatched player-sehwag!
March 12, 2011 at 4:17 AM
The best wicket keeper, during that period used to be Sadanand Vishwanath, and he in fact played for India during the World Series in Australia. His demise was even quicker than Siva’s, unfortunately.
This is the question I had in the 80s.Sadanand is a wicketkeeper batsman who played a major role in the benson hedges world championship win.
He stumped 3 pakistani batsman including javed minadad in the final.
But later he was suddenly sidelined and kiran more was brought in.chandrakant pandit was there for few matches.But it was kiran more again who was non batsman wicket keeper.India lost many matches because of his inability to bat.
I think its politics.Kiran more is favoured by BCCI.
sivaramakrishnan was a spent forcewithin a year.I think australian batsman in 1986 complained that he was throwing the ball in a 3 day match.He was thrashed by aussies and was finished by 1986.he was the first Indian bowler to thrown the ball I think.
March 12, 2011 at 4:26 AM
Whats so funny about the comment? I meant to say that Australia has played to their strength and avoided any upset.
March 12, 2011 at 4:35 AM
India off to a brisk start….50 in 6 overs. Sehwag garnering majority of the strike.
March 12, 2011 at 4:40 AM
These guys were decidedly mediocre even by the standards prevalant in the 80s! And yet, we won the WC & the World Series based on their contributions.
There is also the other side.Srikanth alone is worth a gilchrist+hayden.Gavaskar,vengsarkar,azhar,shastri,kapil dev.India’s batting was good in 80s.They used to win matches on their batting alone.
Even shastri used to be good against spin.Against paskistan they used to lose every match from 1986 to mid ninties though though.
March 12, 2011 at 4:52 AM
Srikant was a very attacking batsman but cannot be talked about in the same breath as Gilchrist and Hayden as he was much less consistent.
March 12, 2011 at 4:55 AM
Pranav–I actually liked your comment about australia and fully agree with it.
E£njoying sehwag-sachin going after the bowlers—Steyn getting quite a stick—enjoying it.
Good to het the morale of their bowlers down!!!
But feel the pitch is easy and indian bowlers will also get similar treatment!
By the way, why has ashwin not got a game yet.Dont think tahir is injured much—Smith is hiding him for the next round!!!(preventing him from exposure)
March 12, 2011 at 5:01 AM
“Srikant was a very attacking batsman but cannot be talked about in the same breath as Gilchrist and Hayden as he was much less consistent”—Agree Pranav…
To think of it, he was a poor mans sehwag–shared the lack of technical finesse and recklessness but not much more..lol
Also, feel that the batch of 1983 was actually quite a mediocre bunch on paper–They had luck and cohesion–Made the most use of available resources along with an inspirational leader who showed killer instinct!!
BY those standards, the current team is much better on paper–it is upto execution at the right junctures–but again, the bowling HAS to improve!!
March 12, 2011 at 4:55 AM
INDIA off to a flyer….sehwag and sachin thrashing SA bowlers….93/0 in 11 overs
March 12, 2011 at 5:11 AM
great to see abhi cheering sachin on his 50
March 12, 2011 at 5:19 AM
hehe thats a good way to describe Srikant: poor mans Sehwag. He was a natural attacking batsman with a great eye but lacked the propensity to generate huge scores.
March 12, 2011 at 6:00 AM
Yes Pranavv.
By te way, johan botha is a good bowler.
The way steyn and morkel have been manhandled, its quite clear that one needs to take the pace OFF the ball on these ptiches!!
March 12, 2011 at 6:34 AM
hhmm….looking like a 438 match….
March 12, 2011 at 6:47 AM
Sehwag and Tendulkar sow carnage
The Bulletin by Sriram Veera
On Twitter, Ian O’Brien caught the carnage at Nagpur perfectly: “Currently sitting in a corner, rocking back and forth, having Indian nightmare. Poor bowlers, it’s not fair.” On a batting pitch, Sachin Tendulkar enthralled with his almost serene aggression, and Virender Sehwag dazzled with his impish strokeplay, as India rattled up 174 by the half-way mark.
Virender Sehwag’s opening assault was a microcosm of his batsmanship: Audacious hits, a few swing and misses, an inner battle to control his adrenalin rush, and then some more audacity. The first ball set the tone: It was an outswinger from Dale Steyn that curved away from the off and middle line but Sehwag swatted it up and over mid-on for a four. He should have been out in the next over when Morne Morkel induced an edge from an on-the-up flash, but Morne Van Wyk, the keeper, simply froze.
It was the beginning of the leather hunt. Sehwag flicked and carved Steyn for more boundaries but he really freed his mind and the body in the sixth over, bowled by Morkel. A skilful on-the-up thump through covers, a screaming straight drive and a thunderous cut helped him collect 13 runs. He even started to slow down at the end of the mandatory Powerplay. He took frequent mental timeouts: he shut his eyes and took deep breaths, almost as if he was trying to curb his racing mind. Curiously, for a batsman who thrives on innovation, he got stuck into a set pattern against the spinners and it brought his downfall. He repeatedly backed away from the leg and tried to hit everything through off. He did pick up a couple of boundaries but fell, edging an attempted cut on to the leg stump against Faf du Plessis.
If Sehwag pumped in the adrenalin, Tendulkar oozed class. Controlled aggression is a term loosely bandied about but there has been rarely a better definition of it than the one provided by Tendulkar today. If you just noticed the strike rate, it would be tempting to say he rolled back the clock and was his young adventurous young self but it was a perfect mix of temperance and aggression. There was not a single shot that looked risky and yet he played all the shots, even a hooked six, a shot that he doesn’t play too often these days. Tendulkar faced just 20 balls in the first ten overs but had raced away to 35 and his fifty came off 33 balls. Yet there was not one manic shot. It was in the eighth over, from Morkel, that he really got going with an awesome thump through covers which was followed by a gorgeous straight drive. Like always, he held his pose even as Morkel was down on the mat. It was a moment that perfectly caught the one-sided battle.
When Steyn fired a bouncer in the 10th over, Tendulkar unfurled a stylish hook to deposit it beyond the backward square-leg boundary. When Jacques Kallis bowled a slower one, Tendulkar glided forward and across to whip the off cutter past mid-on. Unlike Sehwag, Tendulkar played the spinners as per demands of the ball but of course on his own terms. He went down the track to loft over long-on, he drove straight, he played inside-out with the turn and as always, worked the angles.
Even as the onslaught continued, you were left wondering whether Graeme Smith could have done anything different. Perhaps, he could have brought in the spinners earlier – Robin Petersen came in the 12th over with India on 93 for 0. Perhaps he could have turned to Johan Botha sooner rather than waiting until the 17th over. Curiously, he plumped for JP Duminy ahead of Botha but once Botha came in, the run rate started to ease up and started to further slow down as India went into consolidation mode after the fall of Sehwag. India added 37 runs in nine overs as they went from 137 for 0 in 16 overs to 174 by the 25th over.
South Africa fans would be psyching themselves with a lovely coincidence: Five years ago, on the same day, South Africa had chased a record 434 runs against Australia. Who knows what’s in store for us today.
March 12, 2011 at 6:48 AM
Gambhir also has a half century, after this kind of start they should really get to a big total.
March 12, 2011 at 6:51 AM
Sachin is now just 1 away from that magic 100 centuries (in both formats) number. 51 in tests, 49 in ODIs.
Just continues to stun the mind with each new milestone.
By the way his two centuries have come against Eng and SA and not against Holland or Bangladesh.
March 12, 2011 at 7:00 AM
I keep getting back to that ‘Endulkar’ headline after the last WC. That writer has been made to eat his words several times and is probably closer to hanging himself from a fan with each new milestone like this and of course he deserves our assistance!
March 12, 2011 at 6:49 AM
Think India looked on course for 380 plus at one point.
With just one wicket down, not sure why the pace got so slow.
wiht indias obsession with milestones–
Note how the pace dropped between over 31 and 36–after tendulkars century and gambhirs half century—” the match resumed”!
india has played v well today (till now) and if we were to nit-pick—Dont think an innings should be held hostage to personal milestones to THIS extent!!
March 12, 2011 at 7:05 AM
March 12, 2011 at 7:05 AM
Sachin gone.. the way he was playing – i hoped he would be there till the final overs..
anyways lets see where India goes now..
March 12, 2011 at 7:09 AM
damn now Gambhir’s gone too..
hope they keep the momentum going.. would be a shame if they didn’t get to a big total after the way the first three batsmen have played. there really should be 350 here..
March 12, 2011 at 7:12 AM
what’s going on?!! India have lost a fourth wicket!!! C’mon guys don’t blow this!
March 12, 2011 at 7:10 AM
Dhoni is there. So no worry.
March 12, 2011 at 7:14 AM
pathan gone—Thats the problem with taking the “batting powerplay”
The batsman gets forced to loft over the top for a big shot every ball when a “normal” shot would have sufficed.
Think Dhoni needs to bring some sanity and go for 3-4 singles/twos in an over with a boundary or two to aim for 8-9 an over for the next 3 overs WITHOUT losing another wicket!! No more attempted sixes for the next 2-3 overs plz!
March 12, 2011 at 7:19 AM
“Sachin has second century of the tournament and 48th overall”
49th
March 12, 2011 at 7:24 AM
http://in.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=INRTR2J6PI#a=1
http://www.hindustantimes.com/specials/cricket/world-cup-2011/Sachin-on-song-scores-48th-ODI-century/ICCWorldCup2011-HomePageTopStories/SP-Article10-672471.aspx
March 12, 2011 at 7:19 AM
SA have blown both of their reviews….hehehe. 350 looks unlikely at this point.
March 12, 2011 at 7:26 AM
yeah it’s terribly disappointing, this always happens, India look to be on course for a really big score and then lose the plot. Yuvraj is now out. It’s ridiculous the way they’ve folded.
March 12, 2011 at 7:19 AM
Times like this reinforce how cricket is a game that is widely followed but poorly understood. Scores above 370-380 are rare s it is hard if not impossible to maintain this momentum and that is why it is awlays good to not lose wickets in the middle overs. Now, with tthree quick wickets, India is in a bit of hole. Wise thing would be to bat wisely and not aim for the sky.
Again if India do put up 340 plus, inspite of India’s indifferent bowling, it will not be an easy run chase. After a good start ,everyone hopes for the moon but we know it rarely works out that way. Smart play is what it takes and in the end the SRT-Gambhir stand might end up being India’s saviour.
March 12, 2011 at 7:30 AM
370-380 is always a very unlikely score but I was hoping they’d do 350 or at least match the score against Eng. Do agree at this point that it’s better to play sensibly and get to the highest score they can as opposed to trying anything more adventurous here. They’ve lost all the big hitters.. oops Kohli out as I type this.. what a meltdown!
March 12, 2011 at 7:35 AM
“Glimpse of India in 90′s… All over with wicket of Sachin,” says Shreekant.
March 12, 2011 at 7:21 AM
oops my mistake..
48 it is
March 12, 2011 at 7:25 AM
Dont cry
March 12, 2011 at 7:30 AM
Kohli also gone after yuvraaj.—5 wickets for 19 runs!!
Dhoni should do a relaity chekc now and aim for 330 now.ANything more should be a bonus. Games CAN be won by 330!!
The headline should be—”Batting powerplay does it for SA against india”
Things got haywire NOT due to any of indias batsmen OR pitch OR SA Bowlers>
The culprit was taking the batting powerplay.
The batsmen gets “obliged” to go over the innner ring and lofts the ball even when there is a four to be hit along the ground or there can be multiple 2s or 3 s for the taking!
There is nothing worng for aiming high though since almost every opposition (leave alone SA) can score 300 plus against the indian bowling attack right now.
March 12, 2011 at 7:48 AM
well this has been incredible. 8 wickets gone now in the space of 30 runs. complete collapse.
March 12, 2011 at 8:11 AM
just a complete disaster.. they were 267/1 and they made 296. the only positive now is that you’d rather have SA chase than Aus! But still this is not a challenging total at all. Unless the bowling truly comes through today.
March 12, 2011 at 7:52 AM
“Remarkable”–icnredible stuff.
No point in commenting.
Anyhow–on a positive note–300 is not a v easy target–an odd ball does stop and come to the ball!
Good comeback from dale steyn after the intial mauling!
but—–Lets not count india out yet!
March 12, 2011 at 8:18 AM
India did poorly on the powerplay even against Eng losing 7 wickets for 33 runs but here it was even worse. So I might agree with you that India should just do things the old-fashioned way!
Not counting them out but this sort of meltdown is inexcusable.
March 12, 2011 at 8:28 AM
Inexcusable batting performance after powerplay. Really should have got in excess of 340. If the top 3 score 250, then the next 7 should be able to muster up 100 on their worst days!!
March 12, 2011 at 7:53 AM
Now the ball is in the bowlers’ court.
March 12, 2011 at 8:40 AM
Very interesting turn of events.
First and foremost, this underlines how difficult it is being a Gavaskar or a Tendulkar in this country. If India loses, people will complain Sachin did not win the game for them and this century wont be considered a ‘match-winning’ performance. What they will fail to appreciate is that only he prevented an ignominy of a total like 130-140. Coz with a partial exception of Sehwag and Gambhir, no one else showed up today.
And ,that is why it was so important for him to hang arund when he was a little tired on the middle and not lose his wicket. Which is what needs to be appreciated isntead of casting juvenile aspersions about milestones.
He set it up very well and when he left the remaining nine had just to last 10 0vers, get a hundred odd runs with eight wickets. Sadly, the fu**ers that followed couldnt even manage that.
Still, it should be interesting. The wicket is not playing as well and the ball is no longer coming on to the bat as it did earlier on. Or may be our later batting made it seem that way! The third seamer might prove to be crucial today.
And, lets give SA the credit they deserved. Were very professional in face of a daunting start, effectively slowed down the game. Botha and Steyn bowled very well. I look forward to an engaging second half.
March 12, 2011 at 8:50 AM
agreed on all counts..
March 12, 2011 at 9:50 AM
Agree totally. Sehwag, Sachin, Gambhir set this match up and the rest were not upto the task of finishing the innings off. Its not much to ask the likes of Dhoni, Kohli, Yuvraj and Pathan to knock the ball around for 10 overs and to get 60 runs minimum. With their ability, and their instincts in 20-20 too, 10 an over is very much achievable.
March 12, 2011 at 9:58 AM
this current partnership has to be broken somehow..
March 12, 2011 at 9:01 AM
I dont really think India deserve to win this… Coz if they do, their terrible batting performance would be forgotten.. and things would move on..
They have struggled in every match they have played in this WC.. not one win can be described as comprehensive..
sachin must be thinking – what losers I play for!
March 12, 2011 at 9:11 AM
Sachin just got the catch off Zaheer.. and hey I’ll take any Indian win! Plus remember if SA can’t get to 296 they too don’t deserve to win!
March 12, 2011 at 9:47 AM
I don’t agree that they don’t deserve to win the match when SA have not even finished batting!!!
March 12, 2011 at 9:50 AM
JUST because sachin and sehwag gave such a blistering start, giving visions and possibilities of 360 plus, does not mean that 300 is a below par total!
Dont think this should be a\n easy task for SA-definitely easily achievable but someone from SAs top six does have to match sachins innings. At the moment, amla/kallis seem to be batting sensibly.
But watch the space!
By hte way, both nehra and munaf are bowling reasonably wicket to wicket which is a good sign in a match which is far from do -or- die for india!
March 12, 2011 at 10:19 AM
Alex, it’s not just about the 296 but the way in which they got there from 270! If they had been batting slow from the very beginning that would be a different thing.
March 12, 2011 at 9:54 AM
Slow bowlers like pathan are doing well on these pitches.
With sachin it is understandable, but y the heck has sehwag stopped bowling (or being used as a bolwer by dhoni)–he was a reasonable off break tidy bowler.
There was also talk of replacing gambhir with raina—since the latter is an ok bowler, better fielder but the former just about saved his place today, it seems..
March 12, 2011 at 9:58 AM
“I don’t agree that they don’t deserve to win the match when SA have not even finished batting!!!”—agree jayshah.
When someone like pathan comes in after a great start bang into the batting powerplay, there is immense presssure to deliver sixes from the word go.
IN this case, both sachin and gambhir got out in quick succession and hence two new batsmen on the crease together expected to hit sixes in the powerplay, against a “back from mauling” steyn.
Not to support this poor collapse, but lets not get too carried away to the other extreme!
March 12, 2011 at 10:22 AM
SA are currently playing a very traditional one day game with the 100 coming up in 22 overs or so. If they keep going like this there is still a chance to get them towards the end when they have to start hitting out. Because they will have to loosen up at some point. Once upon a time the 100 would come up around the 22-25 over point and people would start hitting out only with the 40th over but then in that sort of situation even a 250 was not very common. Given that they are batting slow if India can get a wicket or two here in the next 5-10 overs it would put pressure on them.
March 12, 2011 at 10:22 AM
and it’s happened! But they’re also opening up.
March 12, 2011 at 10:44 AM
India has bowled better than in the earlier matches of this wc till now..
Think SA are perhaps leaving it till too late. I have a a feeling that even 300 will need some taking now..
Bhajji needs to spin on his own rather than relying on the rough patches of the pitch!!he is after all the “premier” indian spinner.
IN the earlier comment—as for aiming “too high”—at 263 for 1 with more than 12 overs left—if u dont aim high in this situation–when will u ?? one may never cross 350 against a quality team. And knowing the fact that your 334 againstg england wasnt enuf!!!
March 12, 2011 at 11:20 AM
218/3 off 39.Looks like SA is on course for a comfortable win.
March 12, 2011 at 11:32 AM
238/5, think India will pull this off..
March 12, 2011 at 11:24 AM
Not so soon—wait and watch—few more wickets should come up!!!
March 12, 2011 at 11:42 AM
Van Wyk dropped by Gambhir on long leg! Still 247/6.
March 12, 2011 at 11:46 AM
Good over by Bhajji.
Have work to do but am superstitious and think if I get up, India will come undone!
March 12, 2011 at 11:53 AM
harbhajan is really coming up with a clutch effort.
March 12, 2011 at 11:58 AM
phew! botha gone!
March 12, 2011 at 11:58 AM
Munaf is giving it away!
March 12, 2011 at 12:10 PM
great over by Zaheer.. Nehra worries me though.. I would’ve given it to Harbhajan.
March 12, 2011 at 12:12 PM
DAMN! Nehra’s given it away in 2 balls! I think this was a very critical error by Dhoni.
March 12, 2011 at 12:16 PM
Big big blunder on Dhoni’s part.. this was a winnable match..
March 12, 2011 at 12:19 PM
Spectacular loss by India.
March 12, 2011 at 12:22 PM
How about the error of Nehra?
March 12, 2011 at 12:23 PM
I would never have given it to Nehra in this sort of situation and specially not when Harbhajan had just produced such an important over.
March 12, 2011 at 12:34 PM
last over to a spinner is extremely risky in this situation. A fast bowler can at least produce some yorkers and bouncers. Spinner does not have those options.
March 12, 2011 at 12:36 PM
Nehra ofcourse does not have a great yorker but he could have alteast bowled a bouncer to two instead of bowling full to Peterson.
March 12, 2011 at 12:40 PM
yes a spinner is normally not used but Harbhajan had just produced a clutch over. and Nehra is always one of those pace bowlers who seems eminently hittable in these situations.
March 12, 2011 at 12:38 PM
Not so fussed about the result. India know they have themselves to blame and it wasn’t as though SA blew them away.
March 12, 2011 at 1:00 PM
nehra, munaf, chawla…..watch the body language of these guys – pathetic….these guys don’t deserve a birth in ranji teams also….what are they doing here? and 9 wickets in 29 runs after that spectacular show?????? what a shame! world knows now that Indian bowling is ZERO – no. 8,9,10,11 are hitting Indian bowlers so freely….
March 12, 2011 at 1:21 PM
I see where you are coming from but it is still an important match and Indian team has to be able to believe in itself and winning helps that.
Hard to have a spinner bowl the final over but Harbhajan should have bowled the penultimate over and Zaheer the last one. It is certainly poor form to have your most important bowler left with an over he could have bowled. More so in such a tight game.
March 12, 2011 at 1:37 PM
yes that’s the other thing, they should have used Nehra earlier so that even if he had got smacked around in the same way Zaheer or Harbhajan might have been able to better defend things.
March 12, 2011 at 12:32 PM
This is now the 3rd time India has given 280+ to the chasing team in this world cup….and with this loss, it is now painfully obvious that batsmen need to pile up 350 in every match for india to win.
March 12, 2011 at 12:55 PM
Tendulkar or Yuvraj should have bowled the last over
March 12, 2011 at 1:22 PM
1) Im in a minority here but wont get over critical of india today
2) The only session of the match that india lost was the last 10 overs of their batting (obviously it was extremely pathetic batting). BUt the rest of the match they weren,’t that bad.
3) INfact the batting start was the best in this tournament so far and may stay like that till the end
4)Easy to criticise dhoni about giving the ball to nehra in the end retrospectively
Spinners are easier to slog for some tailenders and there is a reason why conventionally they are not given the end over.
5) Im a believer in the “law of averages”—Now have hope for them in the next round(where they will need luck.
Its better to get a few knocks in the intial rounds than later on…
6) the fact that india nearly defended a sub 300 target against one of the title favorites showed that their bowling was improved.
The problem is that I dont think that this sort of opening stand will be repeated again..Just watched ndtv however—interesting point by Jadeja–over 17 to 39—indian scoring was done at less than 5 an over without a single wicket lost–Obviously this is a double -edged sword since one can argue that this “slow scoring” is what took the team to 300 and made a match of it!
March 12, 2011 at 1:24 PM
A team that wants to win it all should be able to defend a total of 296. Thats the bottomline.
March 12, 2011 at 1:57 PM
Anyways lets cheer ouraelves up with this:
http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech-now/entry/40-years-of-gavaskar-a-youtube-tribute
A tribute to the original Little Master.
March 12, 2011 at 2:36 PM
The match was worth watching because of the unpredictability during the last 2 overs. It could have turned any way. Luck has favoured SA. I dont like Dhoni bashing which may put too much pressure. Let them play a natural game. Sometimes that also works. A big total of more than 360 runs may be the answer for a definite win.
March 12, 2011 at 11:55 PM
munaf and nenra shared 130 runs between them and even pathetic is their body language
ashwin, shreeshant or even spin of raina can’t do worst than that
if harbahajan would have bowled last over we still would have won and some say dhoni is a better captain than ganguly who did it all and built a weak team to top team
March 13, 2011 at 12:05 AM
Dont want Sreeshant who will create more problems, headaches and useless entertainment. He can join some circus or parliament. Even circus needs lots of discipline.
March 13, 2011 at 4:01 AM
Providing India beat West Indies then this match was useful for India. Munaf and nehra are not death over bowlers particularly last few overs. Nehra can bowl yorkers but it took him 2 bowls before he bowled a yorker.. Not much IQ being used..It was Indias best bowling performance but they need to find the right combination..No praveen Kumar is hurting India a little now
Hopefully they can beat West Indies and have momentum before the Quarter Finals..You see Sachin does so much but India cant even win sometimes despite his efforts ..that can be sad
March 13, 2011 at 4:02 AM
I forgot to add..it still amazes me that India never got Irfan Pathan..that way India can always three seamers and two spinners.. oh well
March 13, 2011 at 4:04 AM
india shud play 6 batsmen and 5 bowlers,this will be ideal combo given the options -
sehwag
sachin
virat
raina
yuvi
dhoni
ashwin
bhajji
zaheer
sreesanth
munaf
March 13, 2011 at 4:22 AM
At the end of the day, SA played the better and more intelligent cricket! They were hammered in the first 15 overs but they then took charge after that. The wicket definitely started to deteriorate as the match wore on so that’s why i’m all the more pleased at this victory. Well done South Africa!
March 13, 2011 at 4:40 AM
huh!
March 13, 2011 at 6:01 AM
@Aby I disagree SA played the better cricket.. You must have been watching a different match. For 70 overs of the match India were in control. What cost India was the final 12 overs of thier innings and the last 3 overs of SA innings.. Mainly Munafs over and Nehras
March 13, 2011 at 8:22 AM
From going at over 8 runs to the over in the first 15 overs and when the spinners came on….they brought the run rate down, especially with Botha! Considering at one stage it looked like it was another 438 match! India didn’t keep that momentum going…and when sachin went out…it was like india didn’t know what to do! They came out trying to blast everything and underestimating the SA bowlers! Surely the pitch had started to turn a bit….which is why SA played it cautiously when they started! The big point here is that SA held its own…this was the biggest game of the first round….it’s not an easy task playing india on its home turf…! The difference is we weren’t the chokers this time! You can blame it on nehra and munaf…for me, SA were the better and team on the day! SA may get knocked out the tournament and that is always a probability with them but what they did yesterday was a test of character! Yes, it was close…but that was the test…they didn’t choke!!!!
March 13, 2011 at 10:01 AM
Here’s my reading of it.. India dominated for the first 40 overs or so. Then SA totally for the next 10. SA started out sensibly but they were also playing a traditional one day game which is a bit risky in present day circumstances. But they seemed to be on course before they lost some important wickets. Nonetheless in the last 10 they played sensibly. Having said that the Indians did put them under a great deal of pressure at this point and I think anytime you have to depend on Peterson whacking the ball in the final over after all your major bats have departed it cannot be said that this is an optimal situation for a team. Not to take any credit away from the S Africans at all. They held it together when it really mattered, the Indians did not. In fact the S Africans first prevented India from getting to a massive total so in each case they got the better of the Indians in the last 10 overs. But I wouldn’t say they were the better team throughout. Ultimately it came down to a few balls. Anyone’s game but yes the Indians should have won this. In any case a good win for S Africa because they certainly dispelled the ‘choker’ bit yesterday. Can’t take any credit away from them by any means.
On another note we see Aus today scoring 324 against Kenya. The latter are already 35/2 so they’ll get humiliated but this is less than the 358 NZ put up against Can today, also less than India’s 338 against Eng. So surprising things happen in the game.
March 13, 2011 at 10:47 AM
Agree with this assessment completely. Specifically why I am not so worried by the loss. Indeed like Rajen said you want to build confidence etc but the loss was not an emphatic one and more than anything, SA just won the important crunch points in the match.
What I would say about India is they need to be clinical and have the killer instinct when they have their opposition at their peril. At 267-1 you’ve just got to super sadistic and bat the opposition out of the game. The Great Australian sides did this. They did it to India in a World Cup final.
I don’t really think SA have this killer instinct, but for them this win was more crucial. When you lose many big matches in world cups that are close and continue to do so, it really will affect your confidence in crunch situations. To win in a close match will help them more. India have been in these situations and are use to winning or losing…SA tend to lose, but now they have won one, they will benefit hugely.
I’m a bit disappointed that MS Dhoni does not bat more often like he use to. This dib-dab, 1 and 2′s Dhoni is not really a requirement all the time. When you got Gambhir/Kohli he can quite easily play this kind of role, maybe even Tendulkar, I think Dhoni should just be more confident in his ability to hit the ball cleanly for 4′s and 6′s. Otherwise, drop Gambhir and bring in Raina and then Dhoni can play this role.
March 13, 2011 at 6:45 AM
Bollywood stars, including Abhishek Bachchan and Bipasha Basu were on Saturday seen cheering the Indian cricket team during match against South Africa at the Vidarbha Cricket Association Stadium at Jamtha in Nagpur.
Clad in a white shirt and blue jeans, Abhishek was seen holding the national flag along with Bipasha, dressed in blue, and screaming “Come on, India” at the stadium.
http://www.rediff.com/cricket/slide-show/slide-show-1-world-cup-2011-cup-extras-tidbits-bollywood-cheers-team-india-in-nagpur/20110312.htm
March 13, 2011 at 8:31 AM
in a lighter vein……abhi not only gives disastrous movies, but his very presence at the ground saw indian batting disaster (9 wickets in 29 runs) and then last few overs they bowled…..abhi-effect?
i see satyam running after my life 
March 13, 2011 at 8:38 AM
He seems to have got quite a reception in Nagpur..
March 13, 2011 at 8:54 AM
dhoni has tough words:
http://www.rediff.com/cricket/slide-show/slide-show-1-world-cup-2011-dhoni-slams-batsmen-for-playing-to-the-gallery/20110313.htm
March 13, 2011 at 9:47 AM
Tata:
Images of the launch of the songs DMD
March 14, 2011 at 4:33 AM
Abhi shouldnt have attended the match.. whatever he’s associated with becomes a disaster.. movies or cricke matches for India.
March 13, 2011 at 2:06 PM
Well maybe Indias bowling isnt as bad as everyone thoughts..Todays match at Banglore..Australias supposedly superior bowling bowling outfit didnt exacttly blast kenya away at Benglaguru..I think that should put things in perspective that Bengaguru is very flat..Hopefully one expects as the matches goes on that Indias bowlers can get more out of the pitches as the pitches become more worn
March 14, 2011 at 7:43 AM
Stop deluding yourself. Munaf Patel and Nehra are pansies and will not turn into testosterone-driven, aggressive fast bowlers with pinpoint accuracy anytime soon. Rajen often castigates SRK fans as being panty lovers; Well, in Nehra & Munaf, between the two, there are no balls!
I’m amazed to read the comments here and everywhere else. The captain rebukes the batsmen but doesn’t say a word about the bowlers. The fielding sucks, the bowling sucks donkey’s balls and you guys expect to win the World Cup?
Frankly, I want India to be ousted from the WC as soon as possible. These pansies don’t deserve to play with a billion people’s emotions anymore. Get kicked out and bring in the changes. Dhoni out as captain, Nehra & Munaf sent to Tihar jail worrying about their backside. Literally!
March 14, 2011 at 7:56 AM
LOL Saket! A lot of this makes for a great read. However can’t share the result. Let’s hope they win nonetheless!
March 14, 2011 at 3:57 PM
Satyam, it’s not as if I’m gutted so much as to remove all logic and reason from my mind. It’s what I see that’s so troublesome!
The captain has so far made one blunder after another. And after failing to defend 296 (It’s f****g 4 runs less than 300; most “good” teams will defend that total 99% of the time), he went after his batsmen! Dude, get a grip. No team can score 350+ in every game. Your crappy bowlers failed to defend 338 against a highly volatile English side, your own captaincy is ultra-defensive, because of which wickets can only be taken if the opposing team gifts them to the Munafs and Nehras of this world, who are such pathetic fielders AND crappy bowlers to boot.
I mean bowling length at the death isn’t too much removed from zipping your pants down, bending and with one swift stroke, slapping your own ass and proclaiming, “Tohfa kabool Karo Jahapanah!”
The symptoms were always there for everyone to see! And no one apart from Dhoni can be blamed for thinking up this great strategy of going with 4 bowlers (1.5 in reality; 1 for Zaheer & 0.5 for Harbhajan!) and 7 batsmen.
Iss team ko ab davaa ki nahin…dua ki zaroorat hai!! It’s too late for them in any case…
March 14, 2011 at 4:16 PM
agree 100%….bowling length in the slog overs with military medium pace is asking for a whole lotta trouble.
March 14, 2011 at 4:36 PM
you certainly make a very strong (and strongly entertaining!) case and it is indeed troubling to come up with such scores twice and not be able to defend them.
March 14, 2011 at 4:45 PM
“nd no one apart from Dhoni can be blamed for thinking up this great strategy of going with 4 bowlers ”
disagree…India have gone this way for a number of years. Look at the team in the 2003 WC. They had Mongia coming in at 7 and he is no better bowler than Pathan. Dhoni has been inept in some ways, but the fact is India are #2 in ODI rankings and #1 in test rankings under his captaincy. I would urge him personally to play more attacking when he has Tendulkar, Gambhir and Kohli who could all play sheet anchor type roles.
The one day ODI game has changed. Teams know if they have 20 overs left and 8 wickets in hand they can hit another 150 runs just like in 20-20 cricket.
March 14, 2011 at 4:53 PM
Jay, in 2003, Nehra produced a spell of 6 for 23, bowling at speeds close to 150 Kmph! Those days are long gone and so are the bowler friendly tracks of South Africa.
Also, in 2003, Srinath was in great form. Zaheer too clicked quite well. What this means is, India at least had 4 bowlers in their side. Currently, no one can call Nehra & Munaf proper “bowlers.” Both go for more than 60 runs in 10 overs without taking wickets. Tendulkar, given a chance, will produce better results than these two.
The less said about their fielding (Zaheer too is an extremely poor fielder), the better it is. In fact, apart from Kohli & Raina, there are no good fielders in this side. With serious handicaps in 2 out of 3 departments, it’s foolish to expect miracles out of your batsmen, every single time.
March 14, 2011 at 5:05 PM
The question should be what 5th bowler “could” genuinely hand on heart do a better job than Pathan/Yuvraj? India just don’t have back-up to Harbhajan and Zaheer. Any of their other bowlers are going to get karted whether they are part timers or genuine bowlers.
EG first match vs Bangladesh
Shreesanth went for 53 off 5 overs
Pathan and Yuvraj went for 91 off 15 overs
second match vs England
Patel went for 70 off 10 overs
Khan went for 71 off 10 overs
Pathan and Yuvraj went for 67 off 10 overs
third match vs Ireland
Chawla went for 56 off 7 overs
Yuvraj and Pathan went for 63 off 17 overs
fourth match vs holland
Chawla went for 47 off 10 overs
Yuvraj and Pathan went for 60 off 15 overs
fifth match vs SA
Nehra went for 65 off 8.4 overs
Pathan and Yuvraj went for 67 off 12 overs
Not saying that Pathan and Yuvraj are better but really in every match if one of your front line bowlers or more in some cases are giving more runs away than these 2 as a combination 5th bowler, what use is it bringing in a 5th bowler? They are all pretty inconsistent. Sure the front line bowlers bowl up front or at the death and Pathan/Yuvraj used more during the middle of the game which itself lends itself to less risk. But India simply don’t have a good choice in the back-up.
March 14, 2011 at 5:11 PM
Nehra had a great game against England, but I remember that match being played under lights and the ball was doing all sorts.
Every bowling attack has been put to the sword. Kenya have scored 270 odd against the Aussies! Kevin O Brien has smacked a 50 ball 100. So really sure a good bowling attack can make a difference, but I would actually agree with Dhoni to some extent that when your 267-1 you should not be bowled out for 296 odd! But he was to blame on that score, cos really his batting needs to step up too.
Anyway, India just have to think simply. Get to the quarters and win 3 straight matches. They can do that. It’s not beyond them.
March 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM
The commentators are talking about the possiblity of Pak – India QF and I just don’t see how it could happen. If Pakistan wins today and loses to Aus, they will have 8 points. Let’s say SL beats NZ. Pak will finish 4th in the group because their net RR will most def. be lower then NZ. In group B, SA is almost certain to finish on top. If India beats WI, they will be 2nd which means they will play NZ in the QF while Pakistan will play SA.
March 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM
Pak have never beaten India in the WC so I’d be fine with that match-up! Much as SL have never beaten Pak in a WC and didn’t this time either.
March 14, 2011 at 11:51 AM
but India’s ‘easiest’ route to the Semis is thru NZ. As much as they have dominated Pakistan in the WC, it will still be a very tough match for either side.
March 14, 2011 at 11:52 AM
Don’t forget, NZ had also lost 6 consecutive to Pakistan before this WC!!
March 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM
true though they lost in 1983 and still don’t have a perfect record against NZ (this was their second loss). Having said that I don’t seriously believe in this stuff even if it’s nice to have history on your side.
March 14, 2011 at 12:11 PM
Also, I want to see Pak – India in the Finals. That will be THE BEST FINAL EVER IN ANY SPORT
March 14, 2011 at 12:15 PM
agreed! everyone’s for this except the Game producer!
March 14, 2011 at 12:27 PM
the only thing is that India will have the mother of all home field advantage. Crowd can really have an impact on this type of game.
March 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM
If Pakistan were to play WI at any point during this WC, who would you favor? Most would say Pakistan but if you go by the WC, Pakistan have won exactly one match against them in all of the world cups (that too was a miracle where Abdul Qadir scored 10 off the last 3 balls against Courtney Walsh in 1987 group game! )
March 14, 2011 at 12:14 PM
I would easily pick Pakistan because barring something unusual they’d win. But then the WI isn’t a normal scenario because this team has just become incredibly weak over many years now. There’s been a complete collapse in their local cricket structure. The way they’ve played at many points over the last decade they wouldn’t have gained test status playing like that! But with most other teams though they might be strong or weak in a particular tournament they still live upto a certain standard.
Pakistan certainly seem motivated in a special way when they play against India. Once this was true for the latter too but I get the sense now (for some time) that India has moved on. Pakistan might still beat them many times but the India-Aus encounter just possesses a prestige in the cricket world today that is not easily matched and I think increasingly a newer generation of Indians look upto this. But also there is perhaps less antagonism within this same generation on either side of the divide (I’d say at least partly because India’s cultural colonization is quite complete) and so the match-ups aren’t quite ‘war’ as they once used to be. I think the Pakistan team still has more invested in this encounter though at the same time many of their players also express far more affection for their Indian counterparts than was ever the case before. So there’s some ambivalence here. In any case the point I was trying to get at is that motivation is good in these situations but sometimes Pakistan lose the plot because the history perhaps weighs down too heavily on them. Recall Aamir Sohail and Saeed Anwar in Bangalore going completely berserk. Not saying one shouldn’t blast away when one can but Aamir Sohail at points looked ready to explode with the adrenaline!
March 14, 2011 at 12:24 PM
I don’t think India has really ‘moved on’ from the rivalary. Sure India Australia is huge these days but India still gets a kick out of beating Pakistan. Just watch Harbhajan Singh’s reaction in last year’s Asia Cup match when he hit the 6 off Aamir to wint the match. Yes the pure ‘hatred’ is gone from the 80′s and 90′s between the two teams but there is nothing bigger at world stage then India – Pakistan.
March 14, 2011 at 12:35 PM
I disagree that India-Pakistan is the biggest thing in international cricket anymore. I think India-Aus have been this for quite sometime. By the way I didn’t mean to suggest there was no rivalry anymore. Just that when you;re thinking of beating Aus all the time your focus tends to shift a bit. This is not the 80s where beating the subcontinental neighbor defined one’s horizon.
March 14, 2011 at 2:19 PM
I still think India-Pakistan is the biggest rivalry. Largely, due to extra -terrestrial interest ( read Dubai etc). The amount of betting is tremendous and several times the Super Bowl. But, amongst genuine cricket fans, yes there are more interesting rivalries.
March 14, 2011 at 12:15 PM
This Indian side is definitely weaker than the one that reached the 2003 WC finals. In 2003 we still had pretty much the same batting with Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraj etc but Nehra and Zahir used to consistently bowl in the 140′s and Bhajji was a better bowler than. Our biggest problem is the fact that our front line pace bowlers lack speed and the ability to bowl bone crunching yorkers with the result that even tailenders fancy their chances at hitting sixes off the Munaf’s and Nehras of this world. Look how Umar Gul and Dale Steyn bowl to the taileneders. Umar Gul btw is consistently bowling in the high 140′s with 150 as his top speed.
March 14, 2011 at 12:28 PM
I personally don’t think pure speed stops the runs very much these days. Pakistani bowlers tend to be quite erratic in this sense though at their best they’re obviously superb (and Umar Gul is a much more disciplined bowler now than he used to be). Zaheer is overall a better bowler now than he was then. Note how the other day he still delivered some clutch overs at the end. Agreed Harbhajan is definitely at the fag end though again he was quite effective in a crunch-time deal the other day. I don’t disagree on the overall point though that the Indian bowling is ultimately weak. No question about it. I just think that on many of these graveyard pitches even the best bowlers can be made to look very mortal. Consider Shoaib Akhtar in the NZ match getting hit for 28 runs at the end. These days the fear factor is just absent. From the opener to the tailender everyone hits out at everything in sight.
March 14, 2011 at 12:31 PM
What I want to see is India chasing a 300 plus target and how they do with it. So far all they have batted first in all the high scoring matches…would love to see how they chase.
March 14, 2011 at 3:43 PM
“would love to see how they chase.”
You’d definitely love it if you happen to be Pakistani. If not, you can only love it if you happen to be a self-flagellating masochist.
This Indian side will fold before 25 overs are bowled! Write that down in stone.
March 14, 2011 at 12:37 PM
Yes. Zaheer and Bhajji bowled some clutch overs but Nehra and Munaf gave it away. In contrast the Indian tailenders didnt stand a chance against Steyn yorkers and Bhajji and Munaf had their woodwork rearranged. Also Bhajji had real confidence he should have insisted on bowling the last over…..have a feeling he was probably relieved that Nehra was given the task. Dont know what Dhoni was thinking….you live and die by your best man…..Zaheer should have been bowling the last over and not the penultimate over.
March 14, 2011 at 2:16 PM
Re:
This Indian side is definitely weaker than the one that reached the 2003 WC finals
However, no side is as strong as the Aussies then.
March 14, 2011 at 4:14 PM
The Aussies are weaker than the 2003 side that had McGrath, Hayden and Gilchrist but nevertheless look like the strongest in this world cup. Though they gave away a lot of runs to Kenya.
March 14, 2011 at 4:30 PM
The bottomline of all this permutation and combination is —-that once a team reaches the quarter final, EVERY team is THREE wins away from the cup!
Consistency, past records, “net run rate”, statisitics and “form” all go to the dustbin!
Out of the “main” test playing nations, one can (with hesitiation) take NZ and WI out for the cup stakes.
This is quite an open cup and barring Aus, there is no clear favorite (even aus is not a clear favorite)
Infact, i wont bother about any of these matches before QF as long as a team reaches the next round!
March 14, 2011 at 4:38 PM
Indian team has a tendency to get carried away with the hype and adulation around them.
Had they won against SA, one could have imagined the likes of yuvraaj et al going into a celebration overdrive.
And in real terms, that victory would not have helped them for the next round in ANY way.
Now atleast there would be some “soul searching” for all its worth!
There is NO doubt at all that unless the indian bowling turns a “new leaf” in the next round, it is unlikely their bowlers can restrict an opposion for three straight matches..
Out of all, Aus seems least likely to underperform markedly in a match and that makes them the logical favorite…
March 14, 2011 at 4:46 PM
On the contrary, I think South Africa has, by far, the best bowling line up in this WC. Steyn, Morkel, Botha, Petersen & Imran Tahir. That’s discounting Kallis, who can pick up a wicket or two as well.
They also have Dabur Amla (sorry, coudln’t resist!), De Villiers in the form of their lives. Smith is a has been, but Kallis will only get better, if past history is to be believed. Duminy is inconsistent and the rest (Du Plessis, Van Wyke are inexperienced) can go either way. Still, they need to play sensibly and with the kind of bowling they have, they won’t be chasing too much agaisnt the better sides.
Their fielding has always been the best, so in my eyes, they are the favorites.
March 14, 2011 at 5:34 PM
Plus, after many years, perhaps eons, Smith is displaying some tactical nous. Opening the bowling against England with Peterson and against the WI, with Botha. Both moves worked out great for his team. Imran Tahir has had a great WC debut and with the pitches drying up further, there’s all the more reason to believe he’s going to improve further, if that’s possible!
March 14, 2011 at 5:42 PM
“Imran Tahir has had a great WC debut and with the pitches drying up further, there’s all the more reason to believe he’s going to improve further, if that’s possible!”—I think tahir is being held back tactically not due to injury.
Most decent spinners take some time and exposure to get “figured”.
Remember bhajjis first aussie series or sivaramakrishanan or ajantha mendis!!
Graemem smith is trying to use tahir as a *surprise weapon”! By the way, find imran tahirs and malingas hair a bit hilarious!!
March 14, 2011 at 5:47 PM
“think tahir is being held back tactically not due to injury.”
You could be right!
March 14, 2011 at 4:48 PM
Thats what you call “bias”–lol
Anyhow, would like india to try–some tings against WI –provided they are sure of the next round.
wtf–is india sure of the next round if they lose to WI or not–still unclear??
a)changing gambhir for raina—better fielder, bowling option, can score quicker
b)Ashwin if a second spinner is needed
c) dhoni has to improve his field placings. normally he is good but here–
1) what is the leg slip doing for harbhajan when he is hardly spinning the ball
2)why are some fielders rarely seen in the bowlin innings–like gambhir, tendulkar, sehwag—this prves that their placement is wrong.
You see more of munaf, zaheer, et al who should be relatively hidden..
March 14, 2011 at 4:52 PM
Agree with a) and b) should have been tried out already.
Raina has a superb record on Indian pitches. Gambhir consumes too many balls. When your betting at 8.5 per over you don’t send in Gambhir!
March 14, 2011 at 5:08 PM
Gambhir is fine. Don’t think he should be dropped after scoring close to a run-a-ball. I’d keep Yusuf Pathan out to accomodate Raina, if Yuvraaj has to be kept in the side.
Ashwin is a must, from here on. Harbhajan will NOT pick more than a wicket or two, given the way he bowls in the ODIs. I’d pick Sreesanth instead of Munah or Zaheer. With Sree, his nautanki apart, at least there’s a chance of getting some early wickets. Zaheer, Sreesanth, Ashwin, Harbhajan — that’s still only 3 bowlers in total (0.5 for both Sreesanth & Harbhajan), but it’s still better than 1.5!
And Dhoni, who has so far displayed the most defensive captaincy in the history of all world cups (here’s a thought: when did any team win any major tournament by being ultra-defensive?), needs to attack more. Stop the singles in the 30 yard circle. Put more men in. Incite the opposing batsmen to go against the spin and attack, because the singles are difficult to come by. Failure to do so will only make tailenders like Robin Peterson look like giant slayers, which is what happened against SA. Batting against India, no batsman, not even a tailender feels any sort of pressure. Both the captain, and the bowling attack are to blame for that!
March 14, 2011 at 6:13 PM
There are bad players, average players, good players and then match winners!
On indian pitches —India has the following matchwinners—Sachin, Sehwag, Yuvraaj and (yes) Pathan—Cannot drop the last two!
Note that all are batsmen and thats why the bowling is in such state.
Saw one innings by pathan against SA this year which india lost—after that, will not drop him, period!!
Good -Zaheer, Bhajji, Dhoni
Rest are all average to poor (and droppable)!!!!
March 14, 2011 at 6:21 PM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/441828.html
This is precisely the Dhoni that was required..in pretty much the same match situation.
March 14, 2011 at 8:17 PM
agreed.. strangely as he has become increasingly defensive as a captain this also seems to be reflected in his batting approach.
March 14, 2011 at 8:22 PM
you do have a point on Dhoni being far too defensive and this might be a bigger problem than anything else.
On the bowling I’ll say this — of the 1983 Indian team with those bowlers could humble the mighty Windies twice in the same tournament (of course it’s easy to see from one angle how it required precisely those very bowlers to unhinge those great stroke players!) anything’s possible! Plus also a lot of times teams get hot in the second half of a WC. All said and done this Indian team has been near the top of the rankings. So it might be a question of getting the chemistry right once more. Not that I disagree necessarily with everything else you’ve said and again Dhoni’s captaincy might be the most troubling factor at this point.
March 14, 2011 at 5:01 PM
I have frequently seen Tendulkar field…Dhoni has him manning the third man area…cant say I have seen enough of Sehwag and Gambhir though.
March 14, 2011 at 5:09 PM
why is tendulkar in third man?
to keep all “nefarious” influences as far as possible.\In one over saw dhoni with kohli in the slips—the only decent fielder in the slips??
when sachin and some others could have sufficed..
Also the team managment need to investigate the decision to give nehra the last over( although i dont support criticising dhoni for that decision)–
Not sure how many were actually true, but analysed as folllows from the body language–
a) bhajji did not appear particularly keen on bowling the last over either—did he refuse?
b) Zaheer came to offer some advice before the last over to nehra but the latter just shoved the former away… There was SOME politics happening!!
March 14, 2011 at 5:11 PM
*at* third man..typo!!
When u need one slip, how the hell is kohi there and 10dulkar at third man!!
This is the sign of malaise!
March 14, 2011 at 5:42 PM
The entire Banladesh, up until a few days ago, was probably cursing West Indies because the way they humiliated BD. Now the entire BD will be praying for WI to beat England…oh how things turn
That top spot in Group A now means a lot because every team will want to play BD in the QF.
March 14, 2011 at 10:04 PM
There is still an outside chance that India do not make the quarter finals; three things need to happen for this: Bangladesh need to beat SA and they go through with 8 points; SA having beaten the Irish (already assuming that) also go through with 8 points. England than beat the west indies and get 7 points and in the final game west indies beat India getting to 8 points and getting through and India tying England for the fourth spot with 7 points which will be decided by net run rate. This is indeed an unlikely scenario with SA not likely to lose to Bangladesh but in order to put things beyond doubt India should just defeat West Indies to put things beyond doubt.
March 14, 2011 at 11:56 PM
for the betterment of the tournament…india need to go to the QF. it will be a crappy WC if we have WI, Bangladesh, SA and England in the QF. I think as solid as Bangladesh have played…they will get trounced by whatever team they face in the QF. I think the final 4 in both groups will be:
1. Austrailia
2. SL
3. NZ
4. Pakistan
1. SA
2. India
3. WI
4. England
India v Pak needs to happen in the WC.
March 15, 2011 at 6:31 AM
From the little I have seen of them, even dockrell of Ireland and Botha of sa look better than the curren indian spinners– for all the talk of “home advantage”.
Think india needs to bring in raina as I said before– better fielder, good runner, bowling option and good finisher.
It will not be easy but gambhir may have to go. I know he did well against sa but he doesn’t fit v well rite now that sachin and kohli are also there.
Ashwin will def be in the next match.
I would be tempted to try Sreesanth in place of nehra.
Pathan needs to be cautioned a bit to use his undoubted explosive talent a bit more sensibly.
Feel that irfan Pathan was a good versatile option when he used to play
well. Probably there were other issues and he seemed to have been forced out of the team and his confidence!!
March 15, 2011 at 6:39 AM
To give credit where it is due– the batting masterclass given by sachin and sehwag against SA was truly incredible and has been lost in the ensuing noose about indias collapse and defeat.
This was against the arguably best bowling and fielding in the world currently. The sheer savagery on display ESP the way steyn was raped was incredible!!
Also what was noticeable how sachin appeared to be doing the same with MUCH less risky shots than sehwag— and for all those debaters, therein lies the difference.
Heard that after getting out sachin was angry. Bcos he could not get a vacant shower room!!
The procession of batters getting out were taking the showers up before sachin who then protested by not having a shower!!!!
Not sure why someone who survived for five balls needs a shower??? Was sachins question???
March 15, 2011 at 8:36 AM
Ireland allowed SA only
279 odd and it could have been much worse but for duminy!!
March 15, 2011 at 8:41 AM
272.
yeah at one point they were 160/5. We all criticize India on certain grounds and rightly so but SA have been the most wobbly major team in the WC so far. And of course they have a history of doing this in the big ones. Not sure what happens to them but somehow they’re always tentative in the WC. And actually the lower middle order or tail end has been saving them. Happened today and the other day against India.
March 15, 2011 at 3:58 PM
Satyam, you ignore the other more obvious point — No team apart from India has been able to score even 250 against South Africa! They have the best bowling attack in the world. The Windies in the 80s did NOT need scores of 250 every day. Their pace quartet was good enough to defend 200, every single time.
And more importantly, in all 5 games that SA have played, they’ve bowled out the opposition. Every single time. Now it’s possible for them to lose in the Quarterfinals, as the ODI format can be unjust to very strong teams (SA were asked to score 22 of 1 ball after a rain interruption in ’92, when the original ask was 22 of 13! Definitely not a choke!), but this team can win everything in sight based on its bowling and fielding alone!
March 15, 2011 at 4:06 PM
If one goes by logic and law of averages, SA is the ONE test playing nation that deserves to win the WC but has NEVER won it.
(NZ, Eng are not good enuf for winning the cup)
So in a way, SA are “due” to win this one.
But by past experience, I know that in the knockout stages, a different game starts—nerves and luck play strange games.
ANyhow, like the tactical move of SA to hold tahir back
for eg what is ajanta mendis now? he has been figured out—but he gave even the best palyers of spin( india0 quite a tough time—By the time he was figured out, india lost to SL in a championship and a series!
Good timing by SA.
Somehow, feel that teams who have peaked before the knockput have a probelm to last till the end (except maybe australia since they know how to win and sustain even now)
March 15, 2011 at 4:14 PM
The Boston Red Sox also won after an eternity, getting past the Babe Ruth curse. It’s difficult to explain how and why South Africa have failed to deliver at crucial stages in the WC. Australia has been their nemesis in two heartbreaking semifinals, one of which was a tie!
Lara’s brilliance ousted them from the Quarters in ’96 and they were robbed of a fair chance in ’92! If any team “deserves” to win the WC, it has to be South Africa. I can’t say I’m a big fan of Graeme Smith, but the team and its fans certainly deserves it.
March 15, 2011 at 4:27 PM
yes and what an eternity that was! In the meantime everyone else won a title!
And I can’t agree with this ‘deserving’ bit. You can’t always ‘deserve to win’ without winning it! As for Lara one year, something the next well yes there is always some reason!
Even today what’s the excuse for losing so many wickets against Ireland? What would happen against Aus?! Assuming the latter played well.
March 15, 2011 at 4:38 PM
Against Ireland, their best batsman, or the most “in-form” batsman, De Villiers wasn’t playing. On the brighter side, Duminy stepped up and must be brimming with confidence now.
I think South Africa shouldn’t chase totals. They should always try to defend them, keeping in mind their obvious strength, i.e their bowling. Even though they chased 434 against Australia (nobody mentions how poorly Australia “choked” in that game!), their best bet to win lies with unleashing Steyn, Morkel & co. Assuming they get to around 250 first.
March 15, 2011 at 5:06 PM
so they need a full strength team against Ire?
March 15, 2011 at 5:13 PM
Satyam, you are being unduly harsh. In the end, South Africa experimented with their batting line up against Ireland (De Villiers was rested; Van Wyk was sent up the order; Colin Ingram, another newcomer was given a chance) and they won handsomely!
The likes of Ireland and Netherlands couldn’t cross 150 against them. West Indies barely crossed 200. England folded for less although they did win the game in the end. But the point remains: SA have the most impressive record in this WC, so far. Australia probably has a better record because they haven’t lost a game, but they scored 250 (only) against Zimbabwe and allowed Kenya to score 270! Their performances are far from ideal at the moment.
Sure, SA lost against England. And they should have won that game easily. But as long as that lone blip comes in the group stages, it’s absolutely fine.
March 15, 2011 at 4:14 PM
They’ll choke…mark my words!
March 15, 2011 at 4:22 PM
Saket I’d agree with everything you’ve just said except that SA have never made it past the semi-finals. Now unlike soccer this is not such a tough contest as even when it’s a knockout other than Aus there’s almost never a team better than SA on the pure numbers. The ‘bowling and fielding’ factor has been there for them ever single time. And yes any team can be knocked out but there is something called a choke. And by the way we saw this in the India match too. For all of India’s failures they won it with a tail-ender in the final over. This is not something they would have got away with if Aus had been playing and maybe some other teams as well. Again the perplexing thing is precisely their one day record otherwise. So with SA no matter how good they look I am not persuaded till they actually win it all. And so far their own performances have been less than inspiring on the batting front. I’d rather have them win it all than Aus or Eng to be quite honest (though I do like this Eng team). A team can be unlucky once in a WC but not repeatedly. And the knockout deal applies to everyone. By the way ask Aby2000 about it, there are jokes about their chokes in SA!
March 15, 2011 at 8:48 AM
Want Ireland to beat SA today– SA need to get back to their “choker” days!!
Btw don’t think the sachin sehwag masterclass against sa can happen every other day– have a suspicion that the two of them have already given their best Performance for this wc!!
Hope they keep Somehing in the tank for the next round.
And dhoni needs to get his batting timing back. His wild Swings are not going past close in fielders!!
March 15, 2011 at 9:03 AM
“And dhoni needs to get his batting timing back. His wild Swings are not going past close in fielders!!”
Agreed..Dhoni is the only batsman in indian batting line up who needs to get into form..
March 15, 2011 at 2:47 PM
I don’t think it’s right to call SA wobbly (other than the Eng match) just because they have found ways to win. Aus, for the longest time, had an amazing middle or lower order that kept rescuing them. I think that’s the mark of a really good team.
March 15, 2011 at 4:11 PM
but haven’t they usually underperformed in the World Cup? But for their history I wouldn’t think as much of this current form. And it’s not just losing to Eng but not even being able to get to such a paltry total.
March 15, 2011 at 4:47 PM
And speaking of Australia Vs South Africa, the last 10 games between the two sides have resulted in a real thrashing for the Aussies. South Africa lead Australia, hold your breath, by 8-2!
They won 4-1 in Australia and then with the same scoreline in South Afria (although the Tests were split evenly between the two sides). Australia had no answers against Steyn & Morkel. Even Botha!
The only way to stifle South Africa is to subject them to quality spin. Australia doesn’t have a single quality spinner in its ranks. Actually, even though Murali is still playing, even SL doesn’t have the arsenal to contain SA at the moment.
The only threat to South Africa’s campaign in this WC is (and always has been) high quality spin.
March 15, 2011 at 5:00 PM
Sorry, SA lead Australia 7-3, and not 8-2, head to head in the last 10 games. Still, this scoreline suggests a serious thrashing.
March 15, 2011 at 5:05 PM
I know they’ve done well against Aus on many occasions.. my larger point is that a team with better bowling than India would have beaten them the other day. And again note how many exceptions you keep adding for SA. So now they shouldn’t bat second either! Is this reasonable? Surely a team should be prepared for all possible situations? One team is often unlucky to lose a toss on a certain pitch, one kind of pitch plays more to one team’s strength than another. Etc etc. One can argue that the WC isn’t the best measure of the best team and I’d agree. But that’s the contest! If you’re making exceptions for SA let’s make these for other teams as well.
March 15, 2011 at 5:21 PM
I’m suggesting a “strategy,” Satyam. Obviously they shoud be willing to chase as well. No team controls the toss anyway.
The point about SA barely crossing the line against India is moot. Australia would have struggled against a score of 296 as well! The point that everyone concedes is that India “lost” the match. It was theirs to lose, even after their batting collapse.
But even so, batting against a vociferous and highly partisan crowd, chasing almost 300, under lights, if the team ultimately crossed the line, it should count for something, no? And it’s quite dramatic to add the point that it was a tailender who finished things for SA, when in reality, Du Plessis, a proper batsman, was standing at the other end, and in fact, played a small but crucial role in the chase.
March 15, 2011 at 5:40 PM
Saket while I concede your particulars I just think there are too many ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ attached when it comes to SA (now you’ve introduced another one with the crowd factor..). And I don’t see why they should be given the benefit of the doubt when they so far have no WC trophy to show for it. The burden of proof lies on them to show they can do it precisely because they are such a strong team. So it’s quite simple for me. I want to see a cup! They’ve had enough chances. I’ll be pleased if they win as long as they don’t beat India doing so! The crux of the argument for me is simply. They’ve been bridesmaids long enough, actually not even this since they’ve never reached a final! Yes in each case I accept the ‘excuse’ but these add upto ‘choke’ for me. Not being harsh. If they were a weaker team I wouldn’t say all of this.
March 15, 2011 at 5:56 PM
And I do concede your skepticism as well. South Africans haven’t won the WC! They haven’t even progressed to the finals. These are facts, but much as the whole world acknowledges the superiority of the NZ All Blacks in Rugby, they have surprisingly done little in the WC tournaments to enhance their own reputation (they did win the WC in ’87, the only time in 7 attempts!)
March 15, 2011 at 6:02 PM
Agree with satyam on SA.
Potential on paper and in the less important matches is one thing.
Delivering under pressure is another.
Du PLessis was “standing” at the other end but would have remained standing.
They were gifted the match by nehra/dhoni and the last 10 overs by india–or else it would have been a repeat of he england match.
Somehow something about SA does NOT command respect.
ONe feels less confident of them winning the cup…
March 16, 2011 at 5:55 AM
I do find the comments amazing… when india lost 9 wickets for 29 runs, it was the indian batsmen that gave their wickets away….not the excellent bowling and fielding… when SA won the match… it was not through grit and determination but because of dhoni’s decision and nehra’s bowling…wow…might as well kick SA out the tournament…they’re a bunch of useless players who only get lucky because the other team did all the wrong things!
Satyam…yeah… agree.. the wc has been a horror story for SA since forever…but 2 of the world cups were just crazy….when they needed 22 of 1 balls because of the DL system and the most embarrassing mistake of miscalculating the score they needed in another wc…..
The mere fact that india hasn’t even played that well against the smaller teams and they deserve more respect than SA….
What does a person say to these type of comments?
Anyway, the good thing about this world cup is it’s so unpredictable… there is no clear winner till the final happens! As I type this out… Canada has just blasted australia 65/1 in 8 overs…!
March 16, 2011 at 7:34 AM
Aby2000, as I said the other day I wasn’t at all taking credit away from SA. Just that some matches are lost more by one team than they’re won by the other. Which is not to say SA didn’t show nerves when it counted most.
March 17, 2011 at 12:27 PM
Though I gotta say Satyam…just watched the highlights of the 438 match…the feeling is as good as winning a world cup…I still remember watching it on the telly…what an amazing match….never in a million years did I expect SA to win it…and we did…with a ball to spare….
March 17, 2011 at 12:36 PM
yes that was one of the most incredible matches ever!
March 15, 2011 at 6:25 PM
\just watched the highlights of ire vs sa.
the way kallis was run out and amla was caught shows how crucial a few good fielders can be to the overall course of the match.
Thats why people like raina should be given a chance.
Must add though—like many SA players like amla, morkel, duminy, ab de villiers etc— all “nice boys” in the real sense of the word unlike the aussie brats…
March 15, 2011 at 7:32 PM
Sorry Saket as you been in your words right on India or harsh and then Satyam is also right on SA. You just seem more prone to defend SA then India.
With SA they have the potential but something happens to them. They havent been invinicble this WC either..the batting vs England was bad and despite them doing well so far that could easily happen again in the knock out stages.. They nearly lost to India lets not forget having been at 200 odd for two and if it wasnt for nehra SA would have lost despite having the better bowling and fielding..Its always going to be..who gets the most right on the day and tbh anyone is capable of beating anyone especially this WC
March 15, 2011 at 7:36 PM
I be clear I do agree you are mostly right on India but wanting them to go out is also absurd..India desereve to win as much as anyone else..Teams who win WC apart from Australia in 03 and 07 have normally and the first two WCs with the Windies..normally build up momentum and not always looked the best in the early rounds..
Australia in 99 lost to Pakistan and N Zealand..Pakistan in 92..Australia were real surprise package in 87 and India in 83 came out of nowhere at the time just as thier 20:20 victory
March 15, 2011 at 10:45 PM
Tendulkar lost his cool after the batting harakiri in Nagpur
There were a lot of disappointed faces at the end of the Indian innings against South Africa at the VCA stadium on Saturday – none more than Sachin Tendulkar.
He had just played his heart out in an effort to put his team in a commanding position from where they could dictate the game. But before he could even remove his batting gear, he could see the advantage being frittered away by one of the shoddiest batting displays in India’s World Cup history.
He had kept his emotions in check but could hold it no longer when he went for a shower and saw all the bathrooms occupied by the batsmen who had just committed harakiri. He gave his team mates a piece of his mind. For him it was a sign of ‘who cares’ attitude. He just couldn’t fathom what had they done to need freshening up. He was held up for the shower and had to finish in a hurry and rush for fielding.
The collapse
The Indian middle and lower order batsmen threw away the advantage provided by Tendulkar’s 111 and Virender Sehwag and Gautam Gambhir’s half-centuries. From 267 for one at one stage, the home team lost their last nine wickets for 29 runs to slump to 296 all out, eventually resulting in their first defeat of the tournament.
Buoyed by the late bowling fightback, South Africa seized the psychological advantage and walked away with the game with three wickets to spare.
Tendulkar was fired up in the field and when the TV camera zoomed in on him, his face reflected the determination. He set a personal example by giving his all in the field, an all-out dash and slide to stop an off drive to the boundary being an example.
Discipline vital
The Mumbai batsman belongs to the old school of cricket where discipline comes first. He is renowned for his commitment to the game and he can’t tolerate anyone taking things easy, whether in training or in an international match.
There are numerous examples when the master has taken his players to task for lax behaviour.
It’s Tendulkar’s ambition to help his country win a World Cup during his career, and this is his last chance.
The team is not playing at its best at the moment but with home advantage, he is confident they can go all the way.
However, given their inconsistent showing so far, someone needs to stoke the fire of ambition in this team; and there is none better equipped than Tendulkar.
However, the inept showing of his teammates meant one more of his gems will go down in a losing cause.
March 15, 2011 at 10:47 PM
Tendulkar has reason to wonder what’s going on
There seems to be a huge gap in the quality of cricket that Sachin Tendulkar is playing in the 2011 World Cup, and many of his team-mates are. And the gap is just as enormous in terms of thinking and approach.
This was never as starkly evident as in the match against South Africa in Nagpur.
Tendulkar batted against Steyn and Co. at what, in terms of fineness and brilliance, can be called the highest level possible on the global stage; some others came up with the kind of performance that would scarcely qualify as befitting a team competing for the sport’s most prestigious trophy.
In the process of pulverising the South African attack, he hit his favourite straight drive with the elbow held high, the feet neatly placed and the body beautifully balanced, pivoted on the back foot and played the hook to perfection, smacked the ball once through the covers off Morkel at a speed his friend Schumacher would be proud of, hit powerfully and effectively in the air in the manner of the destructive Sachin of the 1990s, and outwitted one bowler who, having bowled a dot ball to him which was fielded at mid-wicket, bowled the next one at the same spot, by just slightly changing the angle of the bat and sending it through the gaps for four.
His command over the proceedings was complete, and his mind, ever responsive to the needs of the situation. He ran his singles quickly and gave Virender Sehwag a lot of strike when the Delhi hitter was at his destructive best, and took on the role of aggressor when Gautam Gambhir needed some time to get into his rhythm. Always, he batted along with his batting partner, not in competition with him. And, much as he toyed with the bowling, he did not for a moment breach the principles of sensible cricket. There was no blind hitting, no reckless aggression; the knock of 111 off 101 balls was full of purpose and focus, intended to take the match away from the opposition.
It did indeed take the team to an unassailable position: 267 for 1, with more than 10 overs to go. If India had got no more than just one run per ball from there on, the total would have been in excess of 330. If they had taken singles off most deliveries and hit at least some of them for 2s, 3s and boundaries, the total would have been in excess of 350.
So all the batsmen had to do was to play out the remaining overs. Which they couldn’t. Casual cricket quickly wiped out a world-class effort.
The most intriguing response to the harakiri was Dhoni’s. At the end of the match, he alleged that the batsmen had been trying to please the crowds. He was at the other end when this shoddy display was under way. Did he say anything to them in the middle? It is not clear. Also, after the major batsmen got out, Dhoni could have taken it upon himself to attack and to play out at least 4 balls every over. Instead, he kept getting the singles, and the batsmen at the other end attacked. What, really, was going on?
When Tendulkar was at the crease with Sehwag, and especially with Gambhir, the conversation between them was continual without being disruptive. What happened to the communication levels with the skipper in the middle?
In the field, again, Tendulkar’s efforts surpassed those of younger members of the team. His intensity was fierce; he dived to save singles, ran and threw in briskly; and once, he picked up the ball at third-man and threw swiftly in one easy, uninterrupted action to prevent what would have been an easy two runs.
The Indian wicket-keeper struggled to effect stumpings; one fielder at mid-wicket, and another in the deep, dropped regular catches, and the fielding and throwing left a lot to be desired, so much so that almost every time, the SA batsmen could run one for the throw. The captaincy, of course, was thoroughly unimaginative.
Tendulkar has got two hundreds in the tournament so far, against two major teams in the group; both have been nullified by poor team effort, though he batted nearly 40 overs in each of the games. Even against Ireland, he batted with responsibility after Sehwag and Gambhir got out early, and had he not strung a partnership with Virat Kohli before being caught plumb by teenager George Dockrell – who was born after Sachin had played his first World Cup in 1992 – the game could, perhaps, have ended differently. In any case, India made the chase hard for itself after he had got out.
‘After Tendulkar, the deluge’ has become a reality once again for Indian cricket, in this tournament. And batting, apparently, is India’s greatest (and, at the moment, only) strength.
This is not quite the way Tendulkar would have liked to be on the cusp of a hundred hundreds in international cricket. He would be disturbed.
(Vaibhav Purandare is the author of Sachin Tendulkar: A Definitive Biography, published in India and the UK. As a schoolboy, in 1987-88, he watched helplessly as Tendulkar and his partner-in-amassing-runs, Vinod Kambli, got a world record 664-run partnership against his school, St Xavier’s, Mumbai. He is currently senior associate editor, Hindustan Times, Mumbai)
March 16, 2011 at 11:23 AM
Aus just lost two wickets. Thought they’d get there with no loss.
March 16, 2011 at 11:54 AM
So a WI win tomorrow not only takes them to the QF, it also takes BD and India as well. An England Win and Group B is still up in the air.
March 16, 2011 at 12:00 PM
and all those sceneiors where India doesn’t make it are just absurd. For them to not make it, England has to absolutely thrash WI tomorrow and match India not only in Points, but in NET RR as well where they are WAAAAAY behind. India are as good as in the QF.
March 16, 2011 at 12:20 PM
Brilliant Article by Nipun Dixit
( and Not by harsha bhogle)
http://www.publishaletter.com/readletter.jsp?plid=26333
Dear Editor:
Why I don’t want to be SACHIN
Don’t be mislead by the title. I know no one can be sachin.
Last night GOD came in my dream and told me that Dude now that you have seen a great deal of sachin’s life , I ll reverse time and we will start all over again from the day he was born. Just that this time you will be sachin.
I POLITELY REFUSED.
But why. He has attained the status of GOD himself in these 22 years. Who wouldn’t like to be him. Well simply because we haven’t seen the world from his eyes ever. We always have liked/envied his stature, his Ferrari, his ads, his bat, even his curly hair. But we have never tried to see the world from his side of the fence.
Remember when you failed an examination. How many people recall that, your class, friends, relatives? You failed to make it to the IITs or IIMs. Who remembers. How many times have you had the feeling of being the best in your class, school , university, state….., you failed to get a visa stamped this quarter…, you missed a promotion this year…, how did it feel when you dad told you in your early twenties that you are good for nothing…..and now your boss tell you the same…
You keep introspecting and go into a shell when people most of whom don’t matter a dime in your life criticize you, back bite you, make fun of you. You are left sad and shattered and you cry when your own kin scoffs at you. You say I am feeling low today. It takes a lot from us to come out of these everyday situations and move on. A lot??? really?
Now here’s a man standing on the third man boundary in the last over of a world cup match. The bowler just has to bowl sensibly to win this game. What the man at the boundary sees is 4 rank bad bowls bowled without any sense of focus, planning or regret. India loses, yet again in those circumstances when he has done just about everything right.
He does not cry. Does not show any emotion. Just keeps his head down and leaves the field. He has seen these failures for 22 years now. And not just his class, relatives, friends but the whole world has seen these failures. We are too immature to even imagine what goes on in that mind and heart of his. That’s why I would never want to be Sachin.
True he has single handedly lifted to moods of this entire nation umpteen number of times. He has been an inspiration to rise above our mediocrity. Nobody who has ever lifted the willow even comes close to this man’s genius. His dedication and metal strength is unparallel. This is specially for those people who would have made fun of him again last night when India lost. They are people who are mediocre in their own lives. Who just scoff at others to create cheap fun. Who have lived in a small hole throughout their lives and thought they have seen the oceans.
Think about the man himself. He is 37 years of age. He has been playing almost non stop for 22 years. The way he was running and diving around the field last night would have put 22 year olds to shame. The way he played the best opening quickies in the world was breathtaking. He just keeps getting better which is by the way humanly impossible. Its not for nothing that people call him GOD.
But still I don’t want to be in those shoes. We struggle in keeping our monotonous lives straight, lives which affect a limited number of people. Imagine what would be the magnitude of the inner struggle for him, pain both mental and physical, tears that have frozen with time, knees and ankles and every other joint in the body that is either bandaged or needs to be attended to every night, eyes that don’t sleep before a big game, bats that have scored 99 international tons and still see expectations from a billion people.
And he just converts those expectations into reality. We watch in awe, feel privileged.
Well I think its time that his team realizes that enough is enough. They have an obligation, not towards their country alone but towards sachin. They need to win this one for him. Stay assured that he himself will still deliver and leave no stone unturned to make sure India wins this cup.
This is not just a game, and he is not just a sportsman. Its much more than this. Words fail here.
March 16, 2011 at 12:23 PM
we can all relate to this piece…
related stuff:
http://satyamshot.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/world-cup-icc-fixtures/#comment-84659
March 16, 2011 at 12:59 PM
For once, Dhoni is coming in for some criticism. Deservedly so. I think there is something amiss here. May be some personal issues in the team.
March 16, 2011 at 2:00 PM
Not so long ago, Dhoni had a reputation for “reading” the game well. In fact, that was the reason why I liked him as captain. He was exemplary in the last season of IPL & the Champions League that followed. He won both tournaments as captain. Of course, he had Bollinger & Murali as bowlers in the team but he read the situation unerringly right, on almost all occasions.
Since the last ODI series against SA, and in this WC, he has shown a depressingly strange “defensive” mindset. His refusal to even point a finger at his bowlers is sickening. He routinely accepts that the side’s fielding can’t be improved. Why? Are only the batsmen playing for the country? Does everyone start playing for himself while fielding? These are stupid statements and they reflect an approach that’s trying to bypass the right approach to cricket. Fielding gives a team the opportunity to save 20-30 runs per game. India’s fielding makes it -20 or -30 per game!
Bowlers like Munaf & Nehra have been playing international cricket for a while now! These guys can’t bowl yorkers even if they were offered sex by ‘apsaras’ in return! Not only that, Munaf Patel with his fielding and his throwing, doesn’t even deserve to play club cricket. He’s an abomination. Any team that employs limpd*ck players like Munaf & Nehra in the WC, no less, deserves to lose straight away!
There’s a very old saying: “Fear & Courage are contagious.” Well so is a limpd*ck attitude. It pains me no end to see these guys on the field. But Dhoni still supports them. Why? I can’t believe there aren’t good bowling prospects, or let me rephrase that, bowlers better than Nehra & Munaf in India. But if the captain supports these lazy buggers, it’s actually outright shameful.
March 16, 2011 at 2:34 PM
agreed with everything here. Very well summarized. And again this is fantastically entertaining!
“These guys can’t bowl yorkers even if they were offered sex by ‘apsaras’ in return!”
LOL!
Also think that the bowlers for all the reasons you’ve stated are under no real pressure to play a ‘thinking’ game. There are lots of less than superlative talents in cricket who can at least be ‘efficient’ if nothing else. And yes Dhoni’s mysterious defensiveness is also an equally big issue, something which is reflected in his batting as well these days.
March 16, 2011 at 2:18 PM
You have summed it up well,Saket.
Winning and losing is part of the game but what annoys me is the limp*ick attitude.
March 16, 2011 at 2:31 PM
Jay mentioned somewhere above that he wasnt too bothered by this loss as India wasnt blown away. That is true but the point is it was a winnable game and we didnt show the application and mindset which is bothersome.
March 16, 2011 at 2:42 PM
I see where Jay is coming from but the problem is that this has happened twice. Both the games against Eng and SA were winnable. In the first one the bowling/fielding was miserable and just didn’t show up allowing a pretty big score to be equaled by a team that normally doesn’t do this. It’s a big score for anyone but at least an Aus have more practice getting to it! In the second one it was even more flagrant as just some better shuffling of the bowlers’ final overs would have done the trick. If these were different kinds of losses it would be one thing but there is a certain disturbing pattern to them. And which is different from a talented team underperforming at times. It is true that I’m not sure how India solve the bowling issue. and there will be days when the batting won’t be able to do as much. We’d then be dependent on winning a good toss or something. Now having said that where Jay is right is and where I have something of a disagreement with Saket is that the other major sides have also had some very mixed results without exception. So SA definitely had a good win against India but it wasn’t the most convincing kind and you add to this the performance against Eng where such a paltry score couldn’t be reached and you wonder what the issue is. SL have been quite shaky. Pak had a huge loss against NZ. Aus just haven’t been tested so far. But all of this takes nothing away from the fact that the Indian bowlers just need to buck up and very fast. Because when the S African batting doesn’t perform you know it’s not for lack of talent. When Nehra doesn’t show up one has to point out the obvious as Saket has!
March 16, 2011 at 2:53 PM
Agree, Satyam. But one wouldnt want to depend on opponents not performing well to win.
March 16, 2011 at 3:34 PM
No one has been convincing so far. India’s best is yet to come. I can feel it!
My only fear is Australia. They are undefeated in a WC since Pakistan beat them in 1999. They are not playing like world champions, but with this “streak” behind them, the self belief must be considerable. A team is trying not only to beat them but create a bit of history. And with Hussey now back, I fear this team even more! He is a fantastic finisher.
India’s bowling is average, but its hardly been great for many years. This is not new knowledge to anyone! There strength is batting and they are heavily reliant on it. If it clicks they will win it. I am sure. By clicking I mean against England and SA for 40 odd overs it was great, but the final 10 overs need to be good too. If they can manage this they will always stand a chance.
Also when was the last time minnows scored like Holland (292 vs England), Bangladesh (283 vs India), Ireland (329 vs England), Canada (261 vs NZ), Kenya (264 vs Aus), Canada (211 vs Aus). A lot of big teams have conceded big totals against teams they would usually blow away for well below 150 (and thats not counting a number of other decent totals posted by minnows against the top sides)
March 16, 2011 at 4:27 PM
your last paragraph makes a crucial point..
March 16, 2011 at 5:07 PM
India are in the mix as much as anyone. Neither have they performed so badly that I think they cannot win the world cup, nor has another team performed so well to suggest they will win it. At least in 2007 Australia were odds on. In 2003 they were overwhelming favs. Its incredible open world cup, where even a team like NZ cannot totally be ruled out. They have big hitters like McCullum, Taylor and Oram. WI have Gayle or Pollard. Only needs a 60 off 35 from one of these to turn an innings around. 50 over cricket now is getting more unpredictable not only because teams are closer in quality, but T-20 has opened up many possibilities from teams to score heavily in the space of 10-15 overs.
March 16, 2011 at 2:40 PM
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IENxb_nJjdE&fs=1&hl=en_GB
Guys, check this young prodigy. He’s all of 21 years old but look at the swing he generates! Unfortunately for India, he wasn’t even given a chance in any of the meaningless ODIs that India played before the WC!
March 16, 2011 at 2:53 PM
wow! the other thing is that India needs a serious bowling coach who knows a thing or two about swing, especially reverse swing which works very well in subcontinental conditions. Wasim Akram once gave some tips to Pathan that were very useful and helped him. After a while he started slipping up, Akram was asked about it and he said that Pathan had potential but that he wasn’t doing some of the things he needed to and which he had talked to him about. It’s an art like any other. In Pakistan it’s been passed on from one bowler to another at least since Imran Khan (who credited his skills to Sarfaraz Nawaz) and while all have not been equally talented by any means they just keep producing serious pace and swing. I think it would be fantastic for the Indian team to get either Wasim or Waqar as a coach but the political realities makes this more or less impossible. Those guys love the Indian team, they love being in India but taking up such a position full-time would be hard. In the absence of this we are depending on a bowler independently developing and acquiring similar skills where there is no such similar tradition. And the Aus/S African/ Eng models don’t work as well in subcontinental conditions from the coaching point of view. But again there have been bowlers who’ve shown promise from time to time but they never develop. Munaf Patel is a classic example. Either the pace vanishes or the control is lost (what little they start out with), so on and so forth. Zaheer is the one guy who’s become much better over the years, especially in tests but he’s hardly a great talent.
March 16, 2011 at 5:01 PM
Even though Sachin and Sehwag are on a tear the most lusty hitting of the tournament has to be that of Ross Taylor of New Zealand who took 28 runs off an Akhtar over and then proceeded to take 30 off a Razaq over. The 50 ball century by Kevin OBrien has to be second then followed by Sachin/Sehwag duo.
March 16, 2011 at 6:05 PM
Australia opened bowlin with tait– reminds me of Sreesanth — also tait chucks intermittently.
Brett Lee is past his prime- maybe he should record a few More albums with asha!
Australia look beatable
March 16, 2011 at 6:12 PM
Canadas opener h patel (who is originally from ahmedabad) really enjoyed lee and tait bowling.
Canadas team appeared an indian team (a seond rate one though)—patel, bagai, cheema, sarkar, rao—lol
March 16, 2011 at 6:13 PM
Yes. I noticed too that Tait chucks some times.
March 16, 2011 at 6:17 PM
what do u think about malinga, murali, shoaib.
think they all chuck intermittently—the key is that they dont do it in all the balls!
March 16, 2011 at 6:25 PM
Malinga is a slinger beyond compare, Murali chucks, Shoaib and even Afridi (when he is trying to bowl a quicker one). Our own Bhajji has been called a suspect by Bedi.
March 16, 2011 at 6:42 PM
Murali chucks at least intermittently.
MAybe he does it less frequesntly now and manages to garb it much more undwer the pretext of his “bent elbow” or “legal angulation at delivery”.
But the bottomline is that how is this daylight cheating going on.
Dont think bhajji chucks (although he rarely spins the ball)
On many occasions, the part time fifth bowler like yuvraaj or sehwag/ raina manage to extract more spin than bhajji.
All this talk of “doosra” is defunct. Yes he has some variations and good control, but thats not enuf for the “bowling spearhead”.
Kumble is missed even now esp in tests!!!
March 16, 2011 at 7:19 PM
On Wednesday, Hiral Patel had one such priceless moment, which a fan may bring up in some inane drunken chat in some pub in the future. It was a sizzling knock from Patel, filled with cuts and drives, but one shot screamed out for attention from posterity. It was a 148.5kph thunderbolt from Shaun Tait that bounced short of a length. It demanded respect, but it got insouciance. Patel just leaned back, lifted the front leg in the air and absolutely thumped it on the up and over cover for a mind-blowing six.
It was ballsy, impish and had a dash of an innocent arrogance that can only come from an amateur teenager. It was a shot of a lifetime, and probably will be so in the case of Patel, as Canada might disappear from the World Cup map if the ICC keeps out the Associates from the 2015 edition, and who knows what Patel will be doing in four years’ time.
What makes the Patel moment almost magical is the context. Here is a 19-year-old kid from the cricketing backwaters of Canada, facing the fiery fast men of the World champion side. Tait, Brett Lee and Mitchell Johnson can make strong men go weak in the knees, but this kid was merrily thumping them.
It brought back memories of a completely contrasting player, the defensive David Steele, who was plucked out of anonymity by the England captain Tony Grieg at the age of 33 to face Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson. He wore steel-rimmed spectacles, nearly lost his way while walking out to the middle on debut at Lord’s, and stirred a nation’s imagination by defending the hostile men with aplomb. The Sun’s Clive Taylor hailed him as “The bank clerk who went to war”. Patel could well be the kid who went to war.
For 58 minutes, the kid stunned the grown-up men from Australia. In 45 balls, he experienced what he might never feel again: what it is like to be a conqueror of a fiery attack. Apart from that six off Tait, there was a serene shot that stood out among the adrenaline-fuelled gems. Lee had just nailed him with a sharp bouncer, which he just about managed to evade with a weak waft. That reaction made you lean forward in the seat to catch the next-ball action. Is Patel mentally strong enough to handle the next delivery? Would he retreat back, if not back away?
Lee too, it seems, was thinking on those lines, for he hurled the next delivery fuller and straighter to catch the batsman by surprise. Patel strode forward – it was the maximum he stretched on the front foot in the entire cameo – and creamed it through the covers. It said so much about the plucky kid. He went on to even hook Lee for a six.
The knock drew a lot of praise from Ricky Ponting, who even threw in a reference to Virender Sehwag. “He was savage on us. There was a bit of Sehwag in how he played freely,” Ponting said. “Looking at the way he plays, he’s a fairly unusual sort of player in the fact that he scored probably 90% of his runs in the one area today, which was around the point, backward point area. The new ball swung a bit, which offered him a little bit of room, and that was all he needed. He accepted the room and he hit some amazing shots at the top of the innings.
Ponting, though, did say that part of the early shock his team suffered was due to a lack of knowledge of the opposition. “We didn’t know a lot about him [Patel]. We didn’t know a lot about a lot of their players, from the fact that we haven’t played against a lot of them and we didn’t have a lot of footage on a lot of their players either. The notes and everything we had was more about their careers stats and a few clippings on things they’d done in this tournament. We probably didn’t bowl as well as we needed to.”
Even Patel’s dismissal brought a smile to your face. When he was going hammer and tongs, a couple of us journalists looked up his profile on ESPNcricinfo, written by a Canadian journalist Faraz Sarwat. It ended with this gem: “When it works it can be spectacular, but there is always the danger that Patel’s innings won’t amount to too much more than giving catching practice to the fielder stationed at deep third man.” That is followed by a quote from the former Canada captain Sunil Dhaniram, “Hiral loves to play the cut over third man. It’s his favourite shot, but he needs to be careful, though, about when he plays it”. Soon, out in the middle, Hiral slashed a cut against Shane Watson and the ball settled in the palms of a fielder stationed, where else, but third man.
By then, though, the boy who was born in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, a state in India, and currently lives in Canada, had unfurled a memorable knock and a dreamy shot that will stand the test of time
March 17, 2011 at 9:09 AM
This WC is easily the strangest one ever!
March 17, 2011 at 9:24 AM
England have opened the bowling with Swann. I like this move. Think England will win today…
March 17, 2011 at 9:32 AM
Having said that, Chris Gayle is the key. Get him out, England.
March 17, 2011 at 9:10 AM
Malinga is not a chucker. He has a side arm action and people with such actions are unfairly accused of chucking. I speak from personal experience. It is true that it is possible to generate a bit more pace with such an action. It may look suspect but as long as the elbow is straight when it crosses the shoulder, it is kosher.
March 17, 2011 at 10:08 AM
West Indies 91/2 after 12 overs.
Quite a flying start, lets see if they can hold on in the middle overs.
March 17, 2011 at 10:12 AM
91/3, now this one might go England way.
Could be a nailbiter types too unless WI collapse.
March 17, 2011 at 10:40 AM
yeah it’s over for WI at 118/5
March 17, 2011 at 11:46 AM
its gonna be close 55 of 96 balls with 4 wickets ….
March 17, 2011 at 11:47 AM
yeah WI have stabilized.. should be interesting..
March 17, 2011 at 11:50 AM
England should win bcoz they are def better than bangladesh
March 17, 2011 at 12:00 PM
looks like Bangladesh are going to turn into the most ‘coveted’ quarterfinal opponents!
March 17, 2011 at 12:12 PM
27 needed off 10 overs. Its over.
March 17, 2011 at 12:13 PM
Russell dismissed off Tredwell. It is a game again.
March 17, 2011 at 12:26 PM
yeah looks like Eng will now pull this off.. 223/9
March 17, 2011 at 12:40 PM
How do you curse in Bangla
March 17, 2011 at 1:26 PM
Here’s a lesson for Dhoni and even Strauss. While England’s field was defensive, runs flowed; as soon as Strauss was forced to attack, wickets tumbled. While chasing, the batting team is already under pressure. The key is to not release it by making singles difficult! If Dhoni has been able to extricate his head out of his ass by now, he’d learn enough to stand on firm ground.
Graeme Swann is miles ahead of Harbhajan Singh as an off spinner. It’s a treat to watch him bowl. Too bad, Dhoni has been using Harbhajan & Chawla as his frontline spinners. The land of spinners is doomed in more ways than one! He had earlier shown faith in another spinner – Ravindra Jadeja and he cost India two T20 WCs. What is obvious to the whole world is always a mystery to Dhoni!
March 18, 2011 at 12:35 AM
Bhajji has become a lazy/defensive spinner: all he does is toss it up and try and “purchase” wickets that way. As if he lacks the confidence to try and bowl people out.
March 17, 2011 at 1:30 PM
Doston,i dont think India needs to worry much about WI match on sunday.they are far better than us in digging their own grave
March 17, 2011 at 1:39 PM
I’m interested in digging 2 graves. One for Nehra, one for Munaf.
On second thought, one grave should be enough for these “0.5 haddi, 0.5 pasli” pehelwans!
March 17, 2011 at 5:44 PM
Dont think either nehra or munaf is AS bad as to dig their graves!
They are certainly comparable to Balwinder singh Sandhu and Madan Lal, if not better.
Infact, when Munaf is in flow, he can have a good control of line and length.
Nehra is easily the MOST injury prone coricketer in world cricket rite now!!
March 17, 2011 at 6:16 PM
Alex dude, you are taking my words literally?
Bhavnaon ko samjho…LOL
Sandhu & Madan Lal could at least field according to the standards prevalant in that era! What can one say about Munaf & Nehra (Or Zaheer, for that matter)? These guys aren’t good enough for club cricket, and frankly, I am amazed that people have the patience to bear with their horrible attitude/work ethics on the field.
March 17, 2011 at 6:29 PM
If in the corporate world, in the present, if an employee refuses to use email as a form of communication and prefers snail mail, the company wouldn’t take 2 seconds to fire him! You either get with the times or you get thrown out.
But apparently, one can STILL be a lazy bugger in Indian cricket and make millions. Nevermind the existing standards; nevermind even the expectations of 1 billion fans, these guys live by their own rules. Which, by the way, means the absence of any rules!
March 17, 2011 at 3:56 PM
Just watched parts of a tennis march — indian wells open, california.
Nadal bs somdev devvarman!!
Probably one of the best tennis performance by an indian.
Nadal was stretched to the limit in the first set– Nadal won 7-5 and it is 4-4 in he second. But the quality of tennis shown by devvarman stunned me.
Nadal was stunned was well but seems nadal will recover to ultimately win!!!
Having played tennis to a reasonable level myself, could appreciate the guts is devvarman. While I write this, Nadal wins the second set 6-4 and won the match.
But the match was Much closer than the score suggests.
If he keeps his head and does not get injured, devvarman has a good future.
Oops, why I am discussing about something non cricket– it is sacrilege!!
Amazing how cricket has killed almost every other game in the indian conscience!!!
March 17, 2011 at 10:42 PM
Somdev is the male version of Sania Mirza.
I suspect that Nadal was rather dismissive of a non entity Somdev and thus had to pay. The way we treat Irish and other minnows until they shock us.
Will Australia allow England to win?
March 17, 2011 at 6:05 PM
Happy for England —nice to see eng get the better of WI—
was secretly scared they may not be able to do it.
England is the team I WANT to be the winner IF india DONT!!
Although i SHOULD be supporting England!!
Two points about England—
their (still not sure of the next round) reminds me of WC 1992 (Pak)
March 17, 2011 at 6:17 PM
MAybe its my bias, but England till now reminds of Pak in 1992!!!
By the way, lIke Andrew Strauss
Have even bowled to him ( in nets) –lol
Incidentally Strauss (as a person) reminds me of everything I like about England (and not about USA!!
March 17, 2011 at 6:34 PM
some day you must enlighten us about your cricket past (or present)!
March 17, 2011 at 7:19 PM
Have played in the Counties( minor counties) circuit in the recent past
Met Strauss few years ago and bowled to him in the nets—Gr8 guy!(although not sure if he remembers)
Personally though—Am a better player of tennis than cricket!!
although by Munaf/nehra standards, not too bad myself–lol
March 18, 2011 at 1:41 AM
Just watched the last 15 overs of the Eng WI match. I agree with Alex….England spinners are way better than Indian. Swann was so very attacking and was a treat to watch. Even tredwell did a great job. All of England games have been pretty close, the one against India, Ireland, Bangladesh, South Africa and now West Indies. They cant complain like Australia that they lack match practice hehehe
March 18, 2011 at 2:25 AM
Say what you will, but England has made this WC so far. Every single match of theirs has been rivetting, for whatever reasons. We should thank them for this entertainment. But seriously though, when a team’s fate in any major event is this unreal (almost scripted), you tend to wonder if they’re destined for something. Like Alex, I agree, this England run is increasingly resembling Pakistan in 1992!
March 18, 2011 at 11:10 AM
I thought it might be tough for SL today but the bowlers are doing it yet again. They’ve not had any convincing batting performance so far, even against Aus they’d lost quick wickets. Sangakkara performs some form of a rescue more often than not. But the bowling has really been coming through. Gives a team great confidence when they know that they can make a match out of even 260 or so.
March 18, 2011 at 11:35 AM
it’s ending up a disaster for NZ..
March 18, 2011 at 11:15 AM
Poor Bangladesh have to beat SA tomorrow to stay alive! The more interesting matchup of course is Aus/Pak. The latter have lost to NZ and will not want to lose again and Aus have not had any major opponent so far except SL where the match had to be called off and of course NZ.
March 18, 2011 at 12:14 PM
The way things stand now if all the remaining matches play out on form i.e. SA beating Bangladesh, Aus beating Pakistan and India beating WI, India will be number 2 in group B and will meet #3 of Group A New Zealand. If they lose to WI they will most likely be #3 in their group and then will play Srilanka.
March 18, 2011 at 12:15 PM
for their own good hope they face NZ..
March 18, 2011 at 3:06 PM
SriLanka are looking the most dangerous team right now. India shd try to avoid playing them in the quarters. If India ends up second in Group B, they won’t have to play them till the finals. Srilankan spinners are very dangerous when chasing, I still remember the 1996 semifinal in Calcutta when the ball turned more than 60 degrees. The old fox Murali is still very potent.
March 19, 2011 at 3:00 AM
South Africa rest Steyn, Morkel in the game against Bangladesh. This is strange. Really, replacing both your lead bowlers for newcomers and untested ones either displays a great deal of confidence or a lackadaisical attitude!
March 19, 2011 at 3:01 AM
Bangladesh have saved at least 20 runs here in the slog overs. SA meanwhile played a traditional one day game. They had 200 in 40 overs and even till the 45th hadn’t picked up that dramatically but some big hits by du Plessis elevated the total quite a bit followed by Peterson who’s becoming rather dependable in these situations. This total is obviously too huge for Bangladesh but it would also be trouble for most other teams.
March 19, 2011 at 3:28 AM
If they win today, sans De Villiers, Steyn & Morkel, it’s going to be a big confidence booster for them!
Having said that, it’s a big test for Tsotsobe & Parnell, both bowlers without express pace. The spin department, with Botha, Peterson & Tahir, looks more balanced. Kallis too, will bowl a few overs at least. That’s the advantage of having genuine all rounders in your side. There’s no dearth of options for the captain.
March 19, 2011 at 3:51 AM
Tsotsobe is a good bowler….wish I could say the same for Parnell….he really shouldn’t have made it to the world cup squad…..
March 19, 2011 at 4:52 AM
LOL India would give up its control over ICC to have a bowler like Parnell in its ranks!
Seriously, he’s what, 21? I’ve been impressed with him ever since I saw him play in the U-19 WC
March 19, 2011 at 7:46 AM
Saket…there were better players than Parnell to choose from… he isn’t very consistent…. anyway…. the real battle starts in the QF….!!!!
March 19, 2011 at 7:48 AM
Are there any bowlers better than Parnell? That’d be such a wonderful situation for Southa African cricket to be in…
Looks like SA will face NZ in the Q/F. Should be easy for them.
March 19, 2011 at 8:21 AM
not so fast. The game between Australia and Pakistan is not over yet. If Pak lose they finish at the bottom of the group and end up playing SA.
March 19, 2011 at 5:59 AM
Pakistan have allowed Australia only 50 in 13 overs in one wicket. Pak seems to be playing well!!
March 19, 2011 at 7:01 AM
Well so if India win they either play New Zealand or Australia depending on if Australia win or loose.. and if India loose they play Sri-Lanka for sure. Tbh India can win any of these but they should really beat W Indies to have some momentum..Eventhough if we have said before..no momentum needed etc as you can imagine how the Media will slaughter Dhoni if they dont win tomorrow
March 19, 2011 at 7:09 AM
Here’s a ‘logical’ & time-tested formula for you: Teams relying on their bowling and fielding will always trump teams solely relying on batting! Specially in ODIs. Now that the wickets will be assisting spin heavily, teams will find it increasingly difficult to score above 300.
Bat first, score 250, field like Jonty Rhodes (only a few teams can do that) and win. It’s that simple, really.
March 19, 2011 at 7:13 AM
If Australia can manage 250 today, it’s going to be very difficult for Pakistan. Australia will choke their batsmen and it will require a special effort from a couple of batsmen, at least, to overhaul 250 against a fielding side like Australia.
March 19, 2011 at 7:13 AM
Bottomline is, any team can only ignore ground fielding at its own peril…
March 19, 2011 at 7:37 AM
Australia won’t score more than 200 today! Their unbeaten run is all but over…
Pakistan’s been at their best today. But a team that can’t play Mohd Hafeez, deserves to lose! The upside is, now that Australia have that loss out of their way, they might become more dangerous. Although, the present batting line up doesn’t excite my imagination at all.
March 19, 2011 at 7:43 AM
Australia 144/7 at the moment. All Ponting’s fault? He’s been woefully out of form through out the tournament. Cameron White has been in even worse form! Makes one wonder, even top teams can get it all wrong at important junctures in a tournament.
March 19, 2011 at 8:23 AM
great fielding by pakistan today and even better bowling. this is a huge boost in our confidence as for as the bowling and fielding go. 176 is very reachable but with pakistan you never know especially against Aussie. This will be a HUGE win for pakistan.
March 19, 2011 at 8:54 AM
Umar Gul has been Pakistan’s lynchpin in the bowling department, even if Afridi’s the leading wicket taker. I think 176 is definitely gettable and all Pakistan needs to do is bat out the 50 overs…
March 19, 2011 at 9:00 AM
easier said than done…pakistan need to show some maturity here. Aussie’s will be looking for blood and as soon as they smell it they will annihilate us.
March 19, 2011 at 9:04 AM
incredibly performance from Pak to humble Aus and if they cannot to this total they should voluntarily retire from the tournament!
March 19, 2011 at 9:37 AM
brett lee is on FIRE. he is trying his hardest to intimidate the batters with his bowling and then his antics after his bowling. and yes if we can’t chase 176(even against Aussie) we don’t belong in this tournament.
March 19, 2011 at 11:00 AM
Pak suddenly in trouble. This is exactly like the Aus innings. They were 90/2 at one point. Pak similarly have gone from that to 98/4 and now it’s suddenly tricky for them. They can’t lose any other wicket at this point.
March 19, 2011 at 12:20 PM
Pakistan wins and tops the group, suddenly they and SA are becoming hot fav’s
March 19, 2011 at 12:21 PM
Afridi is the most stubborn captain alive. that dude has turned into a foolish batsmen. this victory should not have been this hard. a 21 yr old akmal and 25 yr old shaffique played solidly and smartly while the elder batsmen played like idiots. this is a solid victory by pakistan non the less. an incredible 34 WC winning streak comes to an end by aussie…last team to beat the aussie’s were pakistan in ’99. maybe this might wake up the aussie’s.
if pakistan field like they did today and bowl with discipline…we will be very tough to beat. hopefully this victory won’t put over confidence in this team and then we lose to WI(assuming india beat WI tomorrow).
March 19, 2011 at 12:26 PM
now this is interesting.. If India wins tomorrow, they will face the Aussies in the QF!
If they lose, they will face Sri Lanka..
what should we pray for? For India to lose…?
March 19, 2011 at 12:42 PM
big win for Pak and one that complicates the picture for India as neither team will be easy.
March 19, 2011 at 12:29 PM
either way India will face a tough team in the QF.. the kind of form we are in, I dont see it happening
March 19, 2011 at 12:30 PM
Aussie bowling besides Lee is not impressive at all. India have a better chance against the Aussies. Murali and Malinga can be handful on any wicket.
March 19, 2011 at 12:32 PM
and If I am Pakisan, I would want to play WI. As much as England having troulbe in this world cup. England might feel like they are playing on house money now and you never want to play a time like this….
March 19, 2011 at 12:36 PM
hell yeah…much rather play WI than England. this is a rarity for Pak fans to root for Indians tomorrow!! If India wins then they play Aussie. wow.
March 19, 2011 at 1:18 PM
Yep tbh Saket I think finally India are not ignoring the fielding ..against S Africa its getting tad better..Do India mind playing Australia right now in QF..I suspect not.. if India loose tomorrow they then play New Zealand but would India really want that route with no mometum to play New Zealand..and have the Media and fans against them..Interesting
March 19, 2011 at 1:45 PM
india can’t play nz….the only QF match that’s confirmed right now is SA vs NZ.
March 19, 2011 at 2:00 PM
India play Australia if they beat WI or they play SL if they lose to WI…for India, they would surely prefer to play Australia. SL is a tough match.
March 19, 2011 at 2:40 PM
yes someone else earlier made the smart point that you have to fear SL bowling more than Aus bowling at this point. But either way this is more a semi-final kind of matchup.
March 19, 2011 at 2:47 PM
Yes I would fear SL’s bowling attack and also I think SL just have a better record against India in these crunch matches like in 1996 and 2007. Matches in 1999 and 2003 between the two hardly mattered.
Australia are a bit vulnerable. Get the feeling if you can get the openers out and get Ponting in quick, you got a chance against him.
March 19, 2011 at 2:50 PM
it’s an interesting match tomorrow because the stakes are not high for either team. Unless WI lose catastrophically they are still through. The same for India of course except that the opponent is very different. But this is where a win against Eng and SA might have given them a preferable opponent (though I haven’t worked this out).
This WC in any case continues to be strange, stranger and strangest!
March 20, 2011 at 12:47 AM
I might add that India has not beaten a non-minnow in any of the last 4 “world” competitions: the most recent Champions Trophy, the last two T20 world cups, and so far this world cup. So they need to break that trend today, else even though they will qualify for the quarters they will be facing an early exit. So far Dhoni’s team has done nothing to counter my impression that India is a good test team and a pretty average limited overs team (the home pitches are not an advantage but a disadvantage: as satyam will confirm, I have long been saying that India will fare better on wickets that are NOT flat — because the quality of their batting has a better chance to shine; and because the swing bowlers can be threatening. Flat pitches are the great equalizer: on its day even Ireland can score 300+, but a better line-up won’t really get to 400, while, since none of the Indian seam bowlers have any serious pace, they seem toothless (i.e. even on flat pitches at least serious pace can trouble batsmen, especially tailenders). Now a good spin attack could make up for a lot of this, but India’s is mediocre — England, Pakistan, and SL all seem to have better attacks at present).
I hope I am wrong, but this is why I have been pretty pessimistic about our chances. [BTW, my pre-tournament semi-final predictions were SA, Pakistan, SL and India, with England/Australia possibly replacing one of the desi teams here.] BUT: So far only Pakistan and (to an extent) England have played well against TWO quality teams (Pakistan beat SL and Australia; England beat SA and tied India chasing 338), the others have not really aced their tests (Australia failed at the first test, against Pakistan; and before the match was called off SL was on course to set a total that would have been challenging for Australia; SA got a gift batting collapse from India that was hardly caused by their bowling, and stumbled against England; India failed then passed then tied against England when the latter was chasing; and failed against South Africa) — so this World Cup is wide open. Probably the most hard to call since 1992 (certainly since 1996)…and now the REAL games begin…
March 19, 2011 at 2:47 PM
Sehwag is doubtful for tomorrow’s match.
March 19, 2011 at 2:49 PM
Yes I’ve heard they will play Raina and Ashwin potentially. About time I say!
March 19, 2011 at 1:34 PM
good win by pakistan and quite surprising acutally.everyone thot it was sri or sa who cud break the winning streak of aus.
umar gul is looking like the bowler of the series.i m impressed by the new guy asad shafiq’s temperament.however pak batting still looks weak.
March 19, 2011 at 2:07 PM
Congrats to pakistan for their facile win over Australia…
Good to see the punter’s winnig stream broken.
Nowhere, i get a bit concerned for any team when it overperforms BEFORE the knockout round!!
Anyhow so who will india play if they win or lose against WI??
dont bother much about momentum– ie is it better for india to win or lose agaisnt WI — although it is not desirable to wilfully lose (escept if one makes megabucks by bookies–hahaha)
March 19, 2011 at 2:38 PM
I would prefer India wins against WI and face Australia rather than losing and facing Srilanka which will be a tough match. Also if India wins against Aussie in the quarterfinals and Pakistan does the same against WI, guess what……..we are looking at a India versus Pakistan semi finals….WOW
March 19, 2011 at 3:02 PM
Here is another stat I just dug up….India haven’t beaten Australia in WC since 1987!
March 19, 2011 at 3:10 PM
Thats a good stat but this Aussie team is very beatable!
March 19, 2011 at 3:13 PM
ofcourse….ANY team is beatable in this WC unlike 2003 and 2007 where Australia basically bulldozed ever team in it’s path. It’s just that these fact (not stat actually) can sometime play mind games. This is probably the weakest Australian team in a WC since 1992.
March 19, 2011 at 3:16 PM
Another fact that I mentioned a few days ago…Pakistan has exactly ONE win against WI in the history of WC.
March 19, 2011 at 8:04 PM
that is interesting…but this WI tean is very weak and Pakistan are much better…however you never know in this WC.
March 19, 2011 at 8:23 PM
Yeah that record doesn’t mean anything as WI have for a long time been like bangladesh or Zimbabwe! There’s been a complete collapse of their local cricket structure. Don’t think there’s any way they’d beat Pakistan unless the latter shoot themselves in the foot.
March 19, 2011 at 9:25 PM
‘Don’t think there’s any way they’d beat Pakistan unless the latter shoot themselves in the foot.’
and that is exactly what pakistani fans are afraid of happening. also, complacency has always been pakistan’s biggest enemy(see match against canada after beating SL).
on another tourney note…my NCAA bracket has just been busted…damn you pittsburg!!!!
March 19, 2011 at 8:48 PM
From now on, it will be a “free for all”.
Anybody can fcuk anybody….
Actually u cannot even count out WI or Nz : even they can shock in QF!!!
Basically there is no standout team and pak today ensured that no team reaches QF without getting fcuked once!!!
So Australia isn’t a virgin any longer…
Btw talking of “virginity” and lack of it– Sanka mirza wins the indian wells doubles with a Russian girl.
Well, shoaib malik is doing “something” right and seems that he is using his time out of the team!!!
March 19, 2011 at 9:19 PM
WC scenarios:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/507040.html
so if india are chasing 300 and then get all out at 130….does that mean they play Pakistan in the first round? is that debacle worth it or they play aussie? im sure someone in that Indian clubhouse has thought about that. bottomline though, you always play to win matches and never to lose them.
March 19, 2011 at 9:44 PM
agreed.. those who play to avoid certain opponents have already lost!
March 20, 2011 at 4:17 AM
@Qualander India did beat SA in the last champions trophy but yeah overall they have to win more against non minows in these tournaments
March 20, 2011 at 4:37 AM
Agree with qalander above– valid points!!
Another point to note is that pak is the only team who has already beaten not one but two title contenders ie aus and SL.
Pak should be hoping that there overperformance has not come early!!
Another point– people like the aus and SL captains have not scored a century for ages — sangkarra scored one last week after ages. In india people like Tendulkar, sehwag, even gambhir et al score them every few months.
Even if the bowling is horridly weak as indias, there WiLL be the random occasions where the pitch will help or the batting will auto collapse. Can there be a bigger indication of the amount of gulf in indias bowling and batting??? Come to think of it– if indias bowling was even decent(currently pathetic)— they would have been virtually unbeatable.
Will watch ind WI match– but again the real action begins AFTER this match!!!!
March 20, 2011 at 5:44 AM
Both Tendulkar and gambler gone. Yuvraaj just batted an Andre Russell maiden over. Y doesn’t Yuvraaj think of singles when he doesn’t like bouncy pace– atleast rotate strike??
March 20, 2011 at 6:24 AM
India seems to have forgotten the Arthur the quick “dab and run@ single! Makes a
Difference of atleast 25 runs in a match which is crucial!
Barring Tendulkar and dhoni nobody seems to be on active lookout for singles – relieves pressure, rotates strikes— elementary fact!!
Some like Yuvraaj (who seems to nenplayojg well today) looks too lazy to exert for a
Single!
March 20, 2011 at 6:51 AM
Having said that, Yuvraaj seems to be the indian payer of the wc so far.
This opens up few options both in batting and bowling.
Illustrates what I keep saying about peaking at the right time– Yuvraaj who has been in doldrums with a beer belly for a year or so— has peaked at the rite time– even when rock bottom, always supported his place in the team since he is a matchwinner!
Good to see raina and ashwin in!
Think when sehwag returns after injury, there is no place currently for gambhir!!
March 20, 2011 at 7:52 AM
Terrific hundred from Yuvi, not the usual Yuvraj in full flow but nevetheless a very useful and efficient innings. Now he should capitalize on the powerplay though he looks tired out there right now.
March 20, 2011 at 8:48 AM
this total should be alright given it’s WI and that too without Gayle today.
March 20, 2011 at 9:02 AM
I hope you are right. I have a feeling they will win but Pollard is a game-changer in his own right.
March 20, 2011 at 9:05 AM
Much improved performance from our batting line-up: this time they lost the last 7 wickets for 50 runs, significantly better than the 9 for 29 and 7 for 33 collapses against, respectively, SA and England.
March 20, 2011 at 9:14 AM
oh absolutely right on Pollard.
March 20, 2011 at 9:16 AM
Dhoni opening with Ashwin…..haha thats a first.
March 20, 2011 at 10:03 AM
WI are cruising merrily at 61 for 1. need to get a couple of quick breakthroughs.
March 20, 2011 at 10:43 AM
so far it was india’s bowling that was pathetic but batting too seems to be following suit.
I dont care even if ind wins or loses this match.meri bachi-khuchi umeed bhi chali gayi.India dont deserve to win the WC IMO.SL or Aus whoever they meet , are gonna beat the crap out of this team in qf.SL or Aus look fav to win this WC
March 20, 2011 at 11:14 AM
Looks like they’ll be playing SL in the quarters. It doesn’t look good for them for sure but on the other hand it’s just one game at a time at this point. I think there’s a crisis of captaincy at this point. The only plan is to have the batting show up and hope the other side will get bowled out. The bowling is being handled in very haphazard fashion. It’s obviously a weak bowling side but it’s done far better than this. The question now is whether India’s quarterfinal is in Ahmedabad, Colombo or Bangladesh. Zaheer has just removed Smith but I think it might be too little too late.
All said and done guys I’m quite optimistic for the quarterfinal. I’ve seen lots of teams start off poorly in these tournaments and then do well. Admittedly not without good bowling but I’m nonetheless hopeful.
March 20, 2011 at 11:53 AM
LOL, the game has changed completely. This is why I’m still an optimist as long as India are around! Looks like it will indeed be Aus!
March 20, 2011 at 12:54 PM
The final scorecard flatters India a bit…but I’ll take a win any way I can!
CONGRATS (for the next few days). Zaheer’s delivery to dismiss Smith was a beauty.
March 20, 2011 at 12:56 PM
Am not sure what to expect against Aussies in QF.
Looking forward nonetheless.
March 20, 2011 at 11:31 AM
there might be life in this yet! Pollard’s a big wicket!
March 20, 2011 at 10:55 AM
TBH its time to write off Indias chances in this WC feel sorry for Sachin..India dont deserve him. They deserve every bit of criticism from the Media they will get and thats it. It be a minor miracle if they reach the semi finals ..Shame Shame..India had to save thier worse for this WC. India are the new chokers in these ICC tournaments
March 20, 2011 at 12:18 PM
So india wins, rather by default as WI again tumbles down like india aftr gr8 start
March 20, 2011 at 12:43 PM
Well I be happy to be proven wrong. Its time to show up India in the Quarter Finals or kiss goodbye
March 20, 2011 at 12:56 PM
How about some quarters predictions? I think Pak have the easiest time and will get to the semis unless they shoot themselves in the foot, head and everywhere else! I would also think SL will win it at home against Eng though toss will probably be important here. Similarly SA should be able to take down NZ. India of course play Aus in Ahmedabad, I will give India the edge here. Only because the Aus batting has been brittle. But Pak/WI seems like the only completely predictable deal at this point. Also glad Sachin failed today as opposed to later. He’ll be needed for the next one!
March 20, 2011 at 1:04 PM
Pakistan should thrash the Windies — but if it happens to be Gayle’s/Pollard’s day, anything could happen. Also, Kemar Roach versus the Pakistani batsmen (he was rested today) should be interesting to see. My money’s on Pakistan, SA, Eng (they’ve had a crazy ride so far, but have both the spin and the seam attack), and India (‘cuz I can’t bet against them!) making the semis.
March 20, 2011 at 1:18 PM
I second it… i was going to say same but you summarized it aptly
March 20, 2011 at 1:51 PM
Pakistan have a ‘dangerous’ game. They always play well when they are the underdogs. Just look at this WC. They were underdogs against SL and AUS and beat them both. They were favs against NZ and were destroyed. India – Aus obviously is the best matchup and knocking Aus out of a tournament is huge task. India’s best option obviously is to hopefully win the toss and bat first, pile up over 300 and get the Aussies opener (specially Watson) out early. SA – NZ may not be a walkover for SA as everone here believes. NZ always do well in the WC and SA have to worry about not choking again. I think SL – England is the only true one sided match of the QF. Just don’t see how England can matchup with SL.
Sad to see Pak – India potentially meeting in SF…..anyway they can’t look past their respective matches (which is probably what both did in 1987 in the Sem Finals). My prediction is PAK – INDA and SL-NZ (upset pick).
March 20, 2011 at 2:28 PM
And dont forget 57000 odd ahmedabadis support… they are in my hometown, and it would be lucky for the team.. unfortunately i wont going to watch it… but best wishes… and ahmedbad army would support and back them!
March 20, 2011 at 6:39 PM
lets see…predictions:
Pak wins against WI
Aussie wins against India
SA wins against NZ
SL wins against Eng
Aussie beat Pak
SA beat SL
SA beat Aussie to win the WC.
SA in all honesty has been the most solid team so far in the WC. I know India is the popular pick against the Australians but they are 3 time defending champ’s and I don’t think they will go out in the QF. Pakistan might have just woken up a ‘sleeping giant’.
It’s just unfortunate that India and Australia have to face each other in the QF.
As for Pakistan, we have to beat WI and after that either against India or Australia we have little chance of beating them only because our bowling isnt that great and batting is very inconsistent. Beating the aussie’s once in 11 years does not make us better than them!!
March 20, 2011 at 1:21 PM
I expect SA,India,SL and Pakistan to go through. Not with any degree of certainty tho. So far, Pakistan have been a surprise. WI seem to very brittle and if both teams play true to form Pakistan should be in the semis. SA should be fine against NZ. England has been very inconsistent and find it hard to belive they can beat SL. India, if the batting clicks have an edge over the Aussies.
Anyway, the one to get all four semi teams right gets a copy of two ‘arthouse, prestige’ films in KANK and MNIK.
March 20, 2011 at 1:38 PM
March 20, 2011 at 3:23 PM
LOL! Had I know this I would have made different predictions!
March 20, 2011 at 1:46 PM
The QF draw is actually not fair for india and Australia — this looks more like a semifinal or final matchup. One of these two will be held up prematurely.
Think the stupid collapse against SA may haunt india later.
Having said that, IF there is a risk to beat australia — this is it…
Also ind Australia will e played ona working day so no live viewing !!
Pak, SA and SL have the easier cakewalk!!— if these three don’t win their QF, they don’t deserve to proceed!
The dormant likes of dhoni, sehwag, Pathan need to fire .. The likes of bhajji, munaf need to be kicked to play to their potential. Sachin, yuvraj and zaheer seem to be playing fine anyhow—- think indian team cannot be underestimated in THiS round although it becomes trendy to do so!!!
Also hope England get last SL although it will be difficult with those pitches , slingers and chuckers …..
March 20, 2011 at 3:23 PM
yes but this is why the initial matches are important.
March 20, 2011 at 2:30 PM
My predictions are India, Pak, SA and SL. The India/Aussie match and the SL/Eng match will be close (SL maybe strong but Eng will give a tough fight). And then get ready for a India/Pak semi final. I might have to take a day off to watch the match live.
March 20, 2011 at 3:00 PM
I fancy India to beat Australia quite convincingly. SA to do the same to NZ.
SL should beat England. Pak/WI is where I fancy the shock, and WI to beat them.
Then India to beat WI and SA to beat SL.
India to beat SA in the final.
March 20, 2011 at 4:30 PM
Jay….what has India shown you in this tournament where you expect them to beat Australia ‘quite convincingly’?
March 20, 2011 at 4:42 PM
Call it a hunch! Or a punt!
March 20, 2011 at 11:46 PM
dude lemme say it … the venue is motera, ahmd and i would add to hunch of Jay it would be lucky for them.. and this gound has been previosuly lucky if i am not wrong!
March 21, 2011 at 6:20 AM
oh I think India will win as well…just don’t think it will be easy.
March 20, 2011 at 4:09 PM
India shd easily beat Australia, both their batting and bowling is very weak. I expect India and SL to reach the final. That shd be India’s real test. Srilankan bowling is very good, they still have Murali and plays very well on big occasions.
March 20, 2011 at 4:11 PM
Wo, you got it all figued out.
March 20, 2011 at 4:37 PM
Hahaha jayshah and prasad– it’s not so straight forward with due respect to the other teams– they are here to play with their balls- pun intended!!
This is the time when the real matchwinners / the big ones need to stand up and get counted.
Infact this is a totally different ballgame.
still feel Australia is the toughest team to beat in QF out of all.
They analyse and strategise for each and every player ESP in big occasions. This is a weaker Aussie team but they still know how to win and are not surprisingly not no 1 for nothing.
Think the india- Australia QF may decide more than the semifinaljst — it may decide the eventual winner of the cup!!!!
March 20, 2011 at 5:18 PM
I guess this thread has become too big and quarter final onwards should have a new thread with hyperlink of this thread?
March 20, 2011 at 10:54 PM
Yes. It takes too long to get to the bottom of the comments. Let us have a fresh thread.
Yesterday it was a hat rick for India. Cricket win, Saina’s Swiss triumph and Sania’s doubles triumph at India Wells.
A win is a win and India facing Australia is really exciting than waiting for that face off and never getting it if things have gone wrong.
Many were waiting to bash Dhoni and they were disappointed yesterday.
March 20, 2011 at 11:16 PM
I’ll start a new one with the quarterfinals.
March 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM
The other thing is such a massive number of indian origin in various teams– Canada nearly the whole team, west indies eg bishoo, rampaul, sarwan, Kenya and others I’m forgetting!
Just like sa was holding back tahir to prevent being overexposed; seems dhoni did the same with ashwin. And if this was not the intention, why the fcuk was ashwin not played earlier
March 20, 2011 at 5:39 PM
Also t20s have confused not only the viewers but players and coaches as well.
If a decent team does not lose more than 3 or 4 wickets by the 40 th over, it becomes difficult to Lose irrespective of scoring rates ie wickets in hand is more IMp than thought
March 21, 2011 at 7:40 AM
‘Dhoni must go with three spinners should the wicket offer turn’
Former Pakistan captain Wasim Akram feels that India captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni should use three specialist spinners in the quarter-final against Australia in order to exploit the weakness of Ricky Ponting’s men against slow bowlers.
“If the wicket in Ahmedabad offers turn, then MS Dhoni should definitely opt for three spinners since the Aussies don’t play spin that well,” Akram told Mobile ESPN in an interview.
Sri Lanka had adopted a similar strategy during their clash against the Aussies on a turning track at the Premadasa stadium in Colombo on March 5. However the Lankan spin-trio of Muttiah Muralitharan, Ajantha Mendis and Rangana Herath did not get a chance to showcase their skills as the match got washed out.
However, Akram added that in case the pitch at Ahmedabad is a flat one, then the ploy to stack the side with spinners may backfire on India .
“Playing so many spinners on a batting track may spell doom for India since the slower bowlers will not get much assistance from the surface,” Akram said.
India have played with two specialist spinners in four out of the six league games in this tournament. However they haven’t played a single match yet with all three spinners (Harbhajan Singh, R Ashwin and Piyush Chawla) in the eleven.
One major worry for Team India , going ahead into the knockout stages, will be the back-to-back batting collapses against South Africa and the West Indies. While they lost nine wickets for only 29 runs against the Proteas in Nagpur, Dhoni and company performed marginally better on Sunday losing their last seven wickets for the addition of only 51 runs.
Akram mentioned that despite this recklessness by the most-famed batting line-up in the world, there is not much reason to worry for the fans.
“Yes, India’s batting has collapsed badly twice. But I don’t think there is any major reason to worry as these things happen by chance. At the same time, you have to plan your innings and cannot afford to slog every delivery. I am quite sure the experienced Indian middle-order will learn a lot out of their mistakes,” concluded Akram.
March 21, 2011 at 7:43 AM
‘I always wait for the umpire to give me out’
Indian batting maestro Sachin Tendulkar and Australian captain Ricky Ponting’s contrasting World Cup dismissals have re-ignited the debate around walking, an issue that gained prominence in the 2003 World Cup semi-final when Adam Gilchrist walked back to the pavilion despite an appeal against him getting no response from the umpire.
Tendulkar had edged a delivery behind in the first over of Sunday’s match against West Indies in Chennai and then immediately turned and walked to the pavilion.
This was despite umpire Steve Davis giving the 36-year-old not out.
Replays of the incident were inconclusive, which suggests that Davis’s initial decision may not have been overturned had Tendulkar stayed at the crease.
Tendulkar’s decision to walk was in complete contrast to the actions of Ponting against Pakistan in Colombo.
Part-timer Mohammad Hafeez had Ponting cut a delivery only to edge it to wicketkeeper Kamran Akmal. Ponting was ruled not out by umpire Marais Erasmus but Pakistan successfully reviewed the decision and TV replays were clear that Ponting had edged it.
Ponting admitted after the match that he had edged the ball, but said that he stayed at the crease because he has never been a walker.
“There were no doubts about the nick — I knew I hit it. But as always, I wait for the umpire to give me out. That’s the way I’ve always played the game,” the Sydney Morning Herald quoted Ponting, as saying.
West Indies captain Darren Sammy praised Tendulkar’s sportsmanship, while Ponting’s actions were criticised by Pakistan coach Waqar Younis.
Sammy hailed Tendulkar as “a true gentleman” for walking back to the pavillion despite the umpire signalling not out in their World Cup Group B clash in Chennai.
Sammy appreciated Tendulkar’s honesty as he chose to walk back to the pavillion despite being declared not out by Australian umpire Steve Davis off a Ravi Rampaul delivery.
“It shows the measure of the man. He is a true gentleman. After 17,000 runs, he could walk. That was brilliant on the part of Sachin,” Sammy said after his side lost the match by 80 runs in Chennai on Sunday.
Commenting on Ponting’s actions, Waqar said: “There is a system there now in place so you can’t get away with it. It’s nice to see people walking, but that doesn’t happen now I guess.”
March 21, 2011 at 12:02 PM
Tendulkar is class and Ponting is an ass!
March 21, 2011 at 1:25 PM
Satyam pls delete the above link… am posting the article here….thanks…
At least we still have cricket
The great game – and especially Hashim Amla – give us reason to hold our heads up high
Mar 15, 2011 11:09 PM | By Peter Delmar
Peter Delmar: The secret to being a successful newspaper columnist is the following (I know this because a successful newspaper columnist once told me): give the people what they want.
First, you rail against corruption, rant about prejudice and rage against incompetence. Then you rail some more about corruption. (Alliteration also usually does the trick.) But, most importantly, you write about stuff the reading masses want to read.
Right now no one wants to read any more about Manyi and Manuel. Or municipal elections or mining rights. Right now the only thing people want to read about is a funny old game called cricket.
It is thanks to cricket that we are a nation once again holding its head up high. It is thanks to cricket that the depressing political cant of recent weeks has been dispelled by a shared, highbrow national debate on when and how to use the batting powerplay. Of much greater interest to us at the moment than the Anglo American or Standard Bank share price is the state of Imran Tahir’s finger.
Which brings me elegantly to the topic of today’s discourse: Hashim Amla. The bearded one has a curiously old-fashioned habit, one that was in evidence again on Sunday. When he gives a snick, Amla tucks his bat under his arm and walks off the field. He doesn’t wait for the umpire. Unlike other professionals who walk only “when the bus breaks down”, Amla walks because he knows he is out. Because he was brought up that way.
The snickometer is not in use at this World Cup. Did the umpire know that Amla had got the faintest of touches to MS Dhoni? Was Dhoni convinced? We will never know. But Amla knew. And he walked.
The thing about snicks is that, even when played with a soggy tennis ball, if you hit the thing you know you’re out. Instantly. The umpires might not be sure, even the catcher can be uncertain but the batsman knows for sure.
Four years ago I found myself at the Cricket World Cup. A week in Grenada and another in Barbados following the Proteas and swimming on palm-fringed beaches was everything it had been cracked up to be, the holiday of a lifetime – which is why I’m a bit grumpy: that I’m not in India right now.
Before the last World Cup I was told by several travel agents that a fortnight in the Caribbean would set me back at least R60000. This was depressing news: journalists can’t afford cars, let alone a beach holiday. With careful planning – none of which involved a travel agent – I had the said holiday of a lifetime, lived a brief Peter Stuyvesant/Mainstay existence and came home with loose change from half the quoted amount. I also played plenty of beach cricket – which is how I know about snicks and soggy tennis balls.
Once, on a little palm-fringed bit of atoll I stood my ground after giving a catch to the wicketkeeper. National pride was at stake. There was also the fact that the bowler was a New Zealander. And a girl. And she was bowling underarm. Apart from this one moment of uncharacteristic turpitude, I have lived an almost blameless life.
When Hashim Amla goes out to bat there is a great deal more national pride at stake than in a pick-up game of beach or cake-league cricket. Apart from anything else, this is how this young man earns his crust.
In a world of backhanders and dodgy deals, questionable tendering practices, ruthless profiteering and political skullduggery, where the winner is rewarded regardless of the cost or at whose expense he profits, we have a sportsman of the greatest talent who embodies all that was once noble and good about the Gentleman’s Game.
Amla is a man of profound religious conviction; no one, even the most ardent habitue of Castle Corner, would begrudge him his principled stand on not wearing the team sponsor’s logo. But it is as a walker that he deserves much greater kudos than he gets. Not because he seeks it but because he is a role model in a world sadly lacking in this species.
You may now turn immediately to the sports pages.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/article969331.ece/At-least-we-still-have-cricket
March 21, 2011 at 4:30 PM
“This was despite umpire Steve Davis giving the 36-year-old not out.Replays of the incident were inconclusive, which suggests that Davis’s initial decision may not have been overturned had Tendulkar stayed at the crease.”—Did not know that the umpire had given him not out and he still walked inpite of that NOT before the umpires decision like the others (like gilchrist do)
Not sure ive seen many who have wlaked inspite of giving them not out—if thats what sachin did.
IF sachin walk AFTER being given not out, not sure if im in favor of that—just my opinion!!!
U do have a duty to the team as well!
maybe im in a minority here—Dont like Pontings off and onscreen behavior and “naughty boy” antics but dont blame him for waiting for an umpires finger—Cmon u r playing professional sport with high stakes personal and teamwise. ONe cannot sacrifice the team sometimes for the tag of a “walker”!!
Dont think Sachin would have walked in a QF/SF/Final setting—If he does, wont like that at all!!
March 21, 2011 at 4:42 PM
agree with Alex. There is something you owe to the team as well. What about all the instances where you are unfairly given out? Ponting says thats how I play the game. I wait for the umpire to give me out. I think in the past Sachin has walked against Pakistan in India where nobody was sure what the real verdict was including himself. I cannot recall the details around the incident…maybe somebody has a better memory but some players criticized him for that.
March 21, 2011 at 5:21 PM
Thanks Pranay..
Thats how a game should be played—-to win!
I bet, sachin will NEVER walk in his nineties!!!! and I have seen on more than one occasion, sachin sticking his ground when a clear sound was heard.
Im his greatest fan, but dont agree with sachin here..cmon guys ===whoever is readind this post——-WHY TO GO FAR—If sachin “walks” in the QF against autralia,and india lose that match—how many will support him—raise your hands—U cant be “selective walker”!!!
Im not supporting pontings brattish on and off field behavior, but feel that there is nothing wrong with waiting for the umpries deciusion. What is NOT acceptable is to react negatively to an umpires adverse decision.
Infact, like pointings candid statement here.
March 21, 2011 at 5:25 PM
I think he doesn’t walk if he isn’t convinced about it.. sometimes it must be clearer to him than on other occasions..
March 21, 2011 at 5:37 PM
I repeat—cumments welcum—–
cmon guys ===whoever is readind this post——-WHY TO GO FAR—If sachin “walks” in the QF against autralia,and india lose that match—how many will support him—raise your hands/d..ks—U cant be “selective walker”!!!
March 21, 2011 at 6:20 PM
Shoaib Akhtar recently on the eve of his retirement said that he was never scared of Sachin but Gilchrest and Lara scared the daylights out of him. BULLSHIT, after having being taken for 18 off his first over in the 2003 world cup by Sachin including a six off point he refused to bowl the second over. Akram has gone on record to say this.
March 21, 2011 at 7:46 PM
I will NEVER ever blame someone for walking. It is like telling the truth. Can never fault it. I would also not castigate someone who doesnt walk. Their choice and cant be blamed. But, there is something old fashioned and charming about walking that I hugely appreciate and goes to the root of why we love sports. Yes, it is about winning but not any cost.
Sachin if you are convinced you are out, feel free to walk. Even in QF/SF or finals. I got your back.
March 21, 2011 at 8:00 PM
well said..
March 21, 2011 at 7:55 PM
And God save, stars and sportsmen from fickle, insecure, nitpicking, passive agressive fans. I am XYZ’s greatest fan but I find it highly suspicious that when he puts on trousers, he goes left leg first! Pkease give me a break!
March 21, 2011 at 8:01 PM
LOL!
March 21, 2011 at 8:35 PM
“Sachin if you are convinced you are out, feel free to walk. Even in QF/SF or finals. I got your back.”—Thats an absolutely acceptable point of view. Have no qualms with it IF it is consistent.
BUT the problems are—
a)Knowing sachin—he will not “walk” in QF/SF/Finals. ie in satyams words—he will suddenly NOT be convinced if he actrually nicked or not. The man who has scored more runs than the sum total of any two other human beings will not even know if he has nicked or not!!lol
b) Sachin will never walk if he is upto a significant score ie nearing a hundred or even a fifity
c)EVEN if he walks in a) or b), he will not have the backing of most indians esp if india loses the match eventually!!
d) Obviously this “criticism” of sachin has to be taken in perspective and in relation to some other big blunders of icons). Here we are comparing by the yardsticks of sachin not shoaib akhtar or shakti kapoor or even the tainted pak betting trio!
e) Being the greatest fan of either sachin or bachchan have never blinded me to their inevitable failings (which are relatively minor compared to some other icons who call themselves “king” and show ladies what they “look like from the inside”)
f) AT the end, when we are even discussing sachins or bachchans realtively minor issues (but still visible to the discerning and unbiased) —I do think about another species—
The types of whom write lengthy annals to prop up srk and diss bachchan and aamir by various logic. Why are those (esp some females like sm and oldgold) quite at the recent SRK humiliathon on india today conclave about “showing a lady how he is from inside”.
Name me one male from india or abroad who said THAT in india to an indian FEMALE reporter and got away so cleanly. There is something wrong not only in srk but moreso in the silent appreciating majority. Obviousl the types like sm are biased and there are valid reasons for that ( wont delve into those here but which are obvious to the discerning) but what about the other “unbiased” ones. Wtf …
Think ive beaten everyone by the ” length” of this satyamesque post!
Hope it creates some action!lol
March 21, 2011 at 10:12 PM
Didn’t say that he was convinced or not for cynical reasons..
March 22, 2011 at 8:59 AM
Am not sure what action your post can create. Innuendoes, unsubstantiated claims of knowledge and barbs under the pretense of being unbiased hardly lead to meaningful discussion.
March 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM
There are no “claims to knowledge” here!!!
Its personal choice and perception and each to his/her own, i think.
In this particular scenario, the question was —-If sachin walks at a crucial stage of the upcoming QF/SF/Final and india loses the match—how many (indian supporters) will support sachins “honesty”.
While some like rajen will still support him, I am honest enuf to state that i will have issues will that.
And im reasonably confident that majority of supporters (not all) will have issues.
Having said that—- i also added that sachin will NOT walk in a crucial stage or when nearing a fifty or hundred—Thats my impression, not a “claim to knowledge” !!
However the obvious debate again should not be missed here. There ar epeople who indulge in chucking, betting, throwing matches etc. Here we are talking of sachins “walking voluntarily”—dont think this amounts to being anti sachin—As i said here, sachin is being compared to his own v impeccable, unmatched standards off/on field !!
March 22, 2011 at 6:08 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/cricket-world-cup-2011/news/This-is-the-most-important-tournament-of-my-life-Sachin/articleshow/7766488.cms
March 22, 2011 at 9:05 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/oliverbrett/2011/03/who_will_win.html#more
This guy thinks it will be an India/SL final with India winning but his arguments lack analytical rigour like we have come to expect on this blog.