Original thread — Quarterfinals thread
FIXTURES
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March 28, 2011 at 7:00 AM
Play clean, don’t cheat: Pak warns players
Ahead of their crucial World Cup semi-final against India, Pakistani cricketers have been warned not to indulge in any match-fixing by Interior Minister Rehman Malik who said he was keeping a “close watch” on their activities.
“I gave a warning that there should be no match-fixing. I am keeping a close watch. If any such thing happens, we are going to take action,” Mr. Malik said two days ahead of the game in Mohali that will showcase one of the world’s most intense sporting rivalries.
Mr. Malik said that though he was “sure the team has very clean members”, intelligence is being gathered on the Pakistani cricketers, including “who are meeting them and the position of their telephones”.
“This is necessary because we can’t take a chance after what happened in London,” he said, in a reference to a recent match-fixing controversy in Britain involving three Pakistani players.
Mr. Malik, who made the remarks during an interaction with the media in the port city of Karachi, also had some advice for the Pakistani players. “Do your practise, sleep early at night and wake at the proper time. They should dedicate themselves to Pakistan for the match,” he said.
There is a lot of excitement about the India-Pakistan match in the World Cup semi-final, he said.
“There is a lot of love for the cricketers and we hope they will win the game for us. We expect they will not disappoint the people,” he said.
Mr. Malik also welcomed his Indian counterpart P. Chidambaram’s remarks about adequate security being provided to the Pakistani team while in India. He noted that Mr. Chidambaram had said special arrangements would be made for the game in Mohali, including the deploying of some 1,000 commandoes.
“I am sure of his (Mr. Chidambaram’s) capability. He is a man of wisdom and authority and has the capability to handle things well,” Mr. Malik said.
March 28, 2011 at 7:27 AM
Rediff:
15:44 PM Imran: Stupid comment will pressure Pak team:
Former Pakistan skipper Imran Khan reacts to Interior Minister Rehman Malik’s statement that Pakitani cricketers have been warned not to indulge in any match-fixing and that he was keeping a “close watch” on their activities.
Imran said Malik has disgraced Pakistan and his ‘stupid’ statment will only add pressure to the Pak team. He also said his statement came as a disappointment to the team and the country.
March 29, 2011 at 12:27 AM
wow just read this comment after the original story and i guess me and imran bhai think alike…why would they even make this public. what a douche!!!
March 29, 2011 at 12:26 AM
this is good but no damn reason to make this public right now. what the hell are you doing man?? the players have enough to worry about.
March 28, 2011 at 8:57 AM
Agree, it is a kind of stupid public statement.
March 28, 2011 at 10:16 AM
Memo to Rahman Malik: have you ever heard of an invention called a ‘phone’? Have this warning talk in private you moron!
March 28, 2011 at 10:23 AM
@ thecooldude- EXACTLY. Such talk should and must take place within the changing rooms or behind closed doors. This Malik has done this so he feels important to his people. I refer to such people as MORONS.
March 28, 2011 at 10:20 AM
This Rehman Malik has just made the most stupid comment (and I’m not exaggerating) I’ve ever come across. The players are under enough pressure without this idiot meddling in with his nonsense comments.
Imran Khan is completely right in his reply to Rehman Malik.
On a different note. The English cricket side (for once) did not receive much criticism and flak for there disappointing world cup. Now Eng will rest, get there players back fit and healthy then get ready for an exciting summer of cricket.
March 28, 2011 at 10:34 AM
I feel sorry for the team.. I know about some of the scandals but this is nonetheless public humiliation.
March 28, 2011 at 10:50 AM
I couldn’t agree more Satyam
March 28, 2011 at 10:53 AM
Daljit Singh, the PCA Stadium curator, talks to MS Dhoni about the pitch © AFP
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Related Links
News : Misbah not worried by batting numbers
News : Pakistan PM accepts Indian invitation
News : Mohali gears up for ‘mother of all finals’
Series/Tournaments: ICC Cricket World Cup
Teams: India | Pakistan
There are no match tickets available. There are no hotel rooms vacant for the thousands flocking to Chandigarh from all over the world. The premiers of both India and Pakistan will be there to watch their men contest the second semi-finals of the World Cup. Add to those certainties one other: the Mohali pitch is bound to be batsmen-friendly. If sources are to be believed, then the fast bowlers will be more effective than spinners. “It is a good batting wicket. I don’t think it will turn much,” a Punjab Cricket Association (PCA) official said.
History suggests that captains prefer to bat first on calling the coin right and both MS Dhoni and Shahid Afridi will do well to follow convention. It is better to bat first because the wicket tends to lose pace as the match goes on. But if there is heavy dew things could change. “A 280-plus total would be really difficult to chase,” the source said. Over the last five years, in the nine matches played at the ground the 300-run mark has been breached only twice. Incidentally, on the first occasion, Pakistan successfully chased India’s 321 in a day-night game, with Younis Khan’s 117 overshadowing Sachin Tendulkar’s 99.
In the past five years, seven out of the nine matches have been won by the side batting first. Also, there were seven day-night matches with five won by the side batting first and only two by the chasing side. Wednesday’s semi-final would be the first match to be played under lights since November 2009 in Mohali.
Of the 137 wickets taken in those nine matches, fast bowlers accounted for 105, while the spinners claimed just 29. Even though the seamers have predominantly controlled affairs here, slow bowlers like Harbhajan Singh, who relies on bounce, have always got good purchase from the Mohali pitch. At the same time the hard clay in the pitch tends to make the ball skid rather than spin, so a spinner like Afridi would do well to push the ball rather than spin it.
Another talking point in the build-up to the match has been the dew. Over the last few days there has been heavy dew with the outfield being really wet till 10 pm. The curator will be taking measures like not watering the ground two days before the match and cutting the outfield really low but it would be difficult to eliminate the dew entirely. An essential factor for the dew to not spoil the evening would be the presence of the wind during the first half of the day. If it is windy during the day the dew will not be heavy, otherwise it will play affect team strategies.
March 28, 2011 at 10:58 AM
Pakistan fast bowler Umar Gul said Shoaib Akhtar should be recalled for the World Cup semi-final against India.
Paceman Shoaib was dropped after going for 70 runs in the loss to New Zealand and did not feature in the wins over Zimbabwe, Australia and West Indies.
“Shoaib Akhtar is an experienced bowler who has performed well against India,” said Gul. “If he plays [on Wednesday] it will take some pressure off me.”
Shoaib, 35, announced last week that he would retire after the World Cup.
Although Pakistan have been victorious since Shoaib was left out, his replacement Wahab Riaz has struggled to make an impact on the tournament.
Fans can’t stand defeat but we have won six of seven matches so far and hope to play our best cricket against India
Umar Gul
Gul’s call for Shoaib’s return follows a similar plea from former captain Imran Khan, who said Shoaib’s pace and aggression could trouble India’s star-studded batting order.
Shoaib has taken 41 wickets in 28 one-day matches against India at an average of 26.78 and is three wickets short of the 250 mark overall.
In announcing his retirement on 17 March, he said he hoped his final game for Pakistan would be the World Cup final on 2 April.
To reach that match, Pakistan will have to beat their arch-rivals in Mohali.
Gul, who has 14 wickets at an average of 14.50 at the tournament, said: “In both countries people want to see the teams play each other.
“Relations will be better if the teams play each other more often. Fans can’t stand defeat but we have won six of seven matches so far and hope to play our best cricket against India.”
March 28, 2011 at 11:02 AM
so what’s the deal here? Why aren’t they playing him in such a crucial match?
March 28, 2011 at 11:17 AM
Honestly Satyam I feel he was not fully fit. His knee looked gone but he should be better now and for me it’s a foregone conclusion. A fit Shohaib Akhtar has to play. The only worry I had was of Wahab Riaz and hopefully with Shohaib replacing him the attack will be stronger. Now in such a match the selection has to SPOT ON.
I seem to be stating the obvious today.
March 28, 2011 at 2:05 PM
I am almost certain he will play over Riaz. This could be his last game and that too against India. He should be ready to go all out here.
March 29, 2011 at 12:49 AM
go to 7:20…looks like akhtar will be playing according to this interview with afridi. i have concerns about this. this guy can easily give a match away(see the NZ match in group play) and his fielding is weak but would love to see him bowl against tendulkar for the last time.
March 29, 2011 at 1:02 AM
I disagree with you bro. Reason being if Akmal had caught those two sitters none of that would have happened. That onslaught we suffered was all that Akmals fault. Now you know better than me we were well on top but how that match changed was remarkable. Anyway, it was tough to see as a fan and my uncle had to calm me down lol but am sure the team and Afridi would have understood what we did wrong in the game.
Now yes agree Shoaib can be erratic with the ball but like the legend Imran Khan says fortune favours the brave and we have to play him. The delivery he bowled to Mahela Jayawardena was unplayable. (the second game in Colombo).
The media over here are now starting to realise that it’s a lot closer this game than what many thought would have been prior to the would cup. Pak have been a delight to watch and people can say what they want but Afridi leads that team from the front and I assure you people like Geoffry Boycott, Tony Greig and Ian Botham know a dangerous Afridi is a very very dangerous player.
P. S I hope we give Zak the respect he deserves but target all there other bowlers. I can’t wait to see the way Umar Akmal will play there spinners.
All I know is this match is GOING TO BE OFF THE HOOK. (I’m having to miss Uni again
March 28, 2011 at 11:00 AM
Guys sorry if I’ve made any errors. I’m copying and pasting through my phone. (it’s not easy as it sounds
March 28, 2011 at 4:23 PM
Some in indian media have nothing much to report except this funny stuff….
March 28, 2011 at 6:56 PM
WTF is this comment by thismalik guy. As if they are being told to stop this for THIS match but that in other ones, a blind eye was being turned onto these “activites”. Infact Some insiders feel that those three caught were unlucky since they were the ONLY ones who got caught!!
March 28, 2011 at 11:53 PM
I think Rehman Malik’s comments will make the Pakistani team to play really well to prove that they are not for sale, atleast this time. Given the past history and also in the light of the high stakes involved, the public warning will make them go for a win. So India should be ready to tackle a wounded tiger which is doubly dangerous. This match is sure going to give a few heart attacks. The entire cricketing public of these 2 nations are in a tight wound up mode.
March 29, 2011 at 12:33 AM
ok after reading the rest of the comments im glad im not the only one who feels that way about that malik dude. anyways, i think akhtar needs to play if he is healthy. but afridi should not put him in critical situation’s because the guy chokes in those situations. umar gul is hot right now and i say put him in those situations. we need wicket takers against this batting lineup. i think if we can hold these guys to around 220-230 range we will be solid. and if we bat first then we need to put up 250 atleast.
March 29, 2011 at 2:15 AM
satyam – a joke on ind-pak match doing the rounds:
“AFRIDI :- Hum Sachin ko kisi bhi haal me century ki century nahi banane denge. SHOAIB :- Magar hum use rokenge kaise..?? Wo to Gajab ki form main hai…. AFRIDI :- Hum Toss jeet kar Batting le lenge aur 100 runs ke andar All Out ho jayenge…. Kahan se marega century”
March 29, 2011 at 2:51 AM
LOL that’s very funny.
Btw I hope that doesn’t happen
March 29, 2011 at 7:56 AM
LOL, good one!
March 29, 2011 at 3:13 AM
OH btw..there is this other match happening in about an hour or so
http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/current/story/508377.html
March 29, 2011 at 4:49 AM
NZ bat first in Colombo. If they can score close to 250, it should get really interesting. Given how they field, it could be their day.
March 29, 2011 at 5:30 AM
Macullam gone
March 29, 2011 at 5:58 AM
He hasn’t had a great WC anyway. Jesse Ryder & Ross Taylor will be the key batsmen, I think. The other minor detail has to do with the man behind the scenes for the NZ squad. John Wright’s a great coach, and he seems to have worked wonders for this squad as well.
On Jesse Ryder, I think he’s a great batsman to watch. He’s a bit like Sehwag in the sense that he’s not got great footwork, but his hand-eye coordination more than makes up for it. I’ve seen him hit the best bowlers in the world with a casual nonchalance that’s hard to miss. I guess he’s the only ‘natural’ talent in the NZ squad.
March 29, 2011 at 6:22 AM
Ryder gone! Big blow for NZ…
March 29, 2011 at 6:39 AM
guptil gone. nz in trouble now
March 29, 2011 at 6:46 AM
Looks like SL will be in the finals now.
It’s inexplicable, but of all teams in the WC, I just can’t stand SL! They are a good fielding unit though, and Mahela Jayawardane is a good ‘touch’ player to watch.
March 29, 2011 at 6:54 AM
@Saket
but they r all round good well balanced team, not like India more in batting and Pak’s in bowling…
March 29, 2011 at 7:00 AM
Yes, that part is true. They seem to be more balanced compared to the other teams.
March 29, 2011 at 7:24 AM
Good recovery by NZ….137/3 in 33 overs….this partnership needs to carry on till 45th over so that they can optimize the batting PP
March 29, 2011 at 7:49 AM
taylor gone
March 29, 2011 at 8:37 AM
Again NZ fizzled out early
March 29, 2011 at 9:35 AM
SL will an extremely dangerous opponent in Mumbai. They will be favs against Pakistan and a toss up against India.
March 29, 2011 at 11:11 AM
Once again they restricted a team to around 220 and once again the batting is making it look incredibly easy.
In any case we are now guaranteed an all subcontinent final for the first time!
March 29, 2011 at 11:17 AM
For any team to do well, the cult match winners(which are only a handful in any team) have to strike when it matters most.
Ponting didnt do anything for an year but scored a century against india in the qf!
Dilshan and sangakaara are the highest scorers in the tournament (not only in their team)
Thats what makes a team look and play better (than it actually is)
It is becuming a bit boring and predictable to see SL come across these easier opponents in the knockout stage(but deserve credit for not making a mess of it).
“Steady and disciplined” is the word for SL rite now—the captains personality and the buddhist ethos doing the trick!!
March 29, 2011 at 11:32 AM
The way dilshan has curbed his attacking impulses to play such a responsible innings (till now) should be a lesson to sehwag and others in the famed indian batting order.
There is one thing to be accomplished and having a huge record and another to perfom enmasse WHEN it matters. india did it against Aus and lets see what happens on wed (and sat)
March 29, 2011 at 11:38 AM
finally SL lost another wicket (Dilshan). I hope they lose some more. I am sick of these clinical performances!
March 29, 2011 at 11:46 AM
and they’ve obliged! Lost another quick one.
March 29, 2011 at 12:01 PM
Captain gone
March 29, 2011 at 11:50 AM
I have no problem with the way Sehwag bats….if he gets going then India are almost guaranteed 320. He is an absolute delight to watch.
March 29, 2011 at 11:46 AM
An injured vettori bowling with one leg is bowling better than bhajji—but then most teams spinners nowadays are better than indias “premier” spinner.
Sangakaara needs to go—!
March 29, 2011 at 11:48 AM
Well…the most amazing thing about SL that they never seem to just collapse….Now will be a true test.
March 29, 2011 at 11:49 AM
‘India will beat Pakistan and win the Cup’
March 29, 2011 at 11:57 AM
Sanga goes…oh boy!
March 29, 2011 at 12:02 PM
Well, my prophesy before the knockout stage was—”the india australia match will decide not only the semifinalist but the eventual winner of the cup”.
But then again, ….between the cup and lips—theres lot of wind anyways–lol
March 29, 2011 at 12:19 PM
SL has just completely shutdown itself…..gotta play some shots mate!
March 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM
this match has become quite unexpected all of a sudden.. sure they are just 35 runs away but another wicket or two and they might not get there. It would be quite a meltdown after being 160/1!
March 29, 2011 at 12:22 PM
” think Rehman Malik’s comments will make the Pakistani team to play really well to prove that they are not for sale, atleast this time.”—good point vatikala.
Its now or never for NZ now—they need a couple of wickets in the next two overs to make it really close
March 29, 2011 at 12:24 PM
SL on there way to mumbai….
March 29, 2011 at 12:27 PM
not yet iamthat—wait n watch!
chamara siva bowled….
good field placing by vettori
March 29, 2011 at 12:28 PM
yep…
March 29, 2011 at 12:31 PM
Gotta give credit to NZ…..what a comeback!
March 29, 2011 at 12:44 PM
It’s hard to believe that this is the same NZ side that lost 10 matches in a row, including a 4-0 whitewash in Bangladesh! Then again, NZ has made it to 6 out of 10 WC semi-finals so far (and no finals, yet!).
March 29, 2011 at 12:50 PM
SL are on their way to Mumbai!!!
March 29, 2011 at 12:53 PM
Even with a stumble, SL has sent their clear intentions to both India and Pakistan…….WE ARE READY!
March 29, 2011 at 12:59 PM
SL boarding flight to mumbai….
March 29, 2011 at 1:00 PM
saket—nice to see u after a long time!
what do u feel about south africas exit and the “choker” tag!!
March 29, 2011 at 1:02 PM
now flight is confirmed
March 29, 2011 at 1:16 PM
I couldn’t quite comment earlier due to an unexpected trip (still in the midst of a project trip!), but I was very disappointed with the result. This is a team where the correlation between the team’s potential, talent & discipline breaks down completely with respect to the final results. At least during major tournaments. When all else fails, and all else has failed, it’s best to attribute it to a major mental block. Somehow the South Africans love to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory! Of all the teams in this WC, they lost to England and NZ — not exactly teams full of incredible talent — and that too chasing modest totals. The latter part also underlines their mental toughness, or lack of , really.
It’s inexplicable, and highly tragic for South African fans who certainly deserve better results. Here’s a team that can chase down 434 outside a major tournament, but loses the battle when chasing 220 odd inside one.
The only ‘parallel’ I can draw to explain this phenomenon is part of a scene from Unforgiven — one of my favorite films.
When Gene Hackman is dying in the end, he says to Will Munny (Eastwood), “I don’t deserve this… to die like this. I was building a house.”
And Eastwood replies, “Deserve’s got nothin’ to do with it.”
March 29, 2011 at 1:19 PM
Saket,
what’s ur prediction for tom tie??
March 29, 2011 at 1:29 PM
Looking at my initial prediction, I’ve only been 50% correct. I thought Australia & South Africa would make it to the Semi-Finals, although I did talk about Pakistan being the dark horses in the tournament.
So, not really someone who’s good with predictions, I’m afraid. But there’s news of a heavy storm in Mohali right now. Hope that doesn’t result in a curtailed match, because that would be unfair to both teams (and fans!).
March 29, 2011 at 1:36 PM
Its raining there right now… nature helping Pak
March 29, 2011 at 1:23 PM
Thanx Saket for that. I was wondering why your “disappearance” and “unexpected trip” coincided with the south african brilliant performance against NZ–hahaha!
March 29, 2011 at 1:42 PM
What I’m going to narrate is absolutely true, and perhaps South African fans can learn from this.
A person I knew (a fellow Indian), used to bet AGAINST India in all the major tournaments. He wasn’t a ‘gaddar’ or anything, but an acute fan of logic. If India won, he didn’t mind losing the money. And if India lost, he got some monetary benefit out of it!
March 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM
Lol…
March 29, 2011 at 2:42 PM
sounds a bit like Pascal’s wager. Believe in God, if you do and he turns out not to exist you don’t lose anything, if you do and he does you’re a winner eventually. However if you don’t and he does exist you’re in some trouble at the end!
March 29, 2011 at 1:44 PM
ponting steps down as skipper!
In the recent india pak cricket encounters, there have beeen two watershed events—
1) last ball six by miandad off chetan sharma.
Pak got an upper hand for years after this
2) indias win ove rplak in the wc–when jadeja hit sixes off waqar
india has been having an upperhand after that and continuing till now–although they have played rarely recently.
March 29, 2011 at 4:22 PM
Is it just me who feels that this Lankan side seems to be pretty lucky in world cups..
in 1996, they had walkover wins in the group matches against Australia and West Indies when the latter two refused to play against SL because of security concerns. Then they played England in the quarters to qualify for the semis, and then lost to India only because of the latter’s extreme stupidity..
in this world cup, their match against Australiadidnt have any result, giving them one point, they lost to pakistan but still ended up being the No. 1 ranked team of their group.. faced England and then NZ to qualify for the finals!!
whereas India had had to beat Australia, and will now have to overcome the strong Pakistani side to qualify for the final.
March 29, 2011 at 4:35 PM
The Great great BONG- suprb post !!
So now we know that Gilani is coming. And as gracious hosts, we need to take care of security. Not just their security but security from them. For instance, if you are a woman you definitely need to be protected from Gilani in a crowd
A country sends their trained army over to our borders to kill innocent people, makes heroes out of the perpetrators, blames India for this dastardly attack and we react by inviting these fine men, who funded the attack and provide cover for the attackers, over to our country to enjoy our hospitality
As for Zardari (should he come ), we need to make sure he pays for his female “tour guides” (or more precisely tour escorts) unlike what he did in Turkey.
http://greatbong.net/2011/03/29/asha-aman-ki-aisi-ki-taisi/
March 29, 2011 at 4:56 PM
LOL, on the Zardari bit! Didn’t know Gilani had that reputation too. Zardari ran across Palin on one of his trips here and famously told her ‘you’re even more beautiful in real life than you look on screen’! For once even Palin was flummoxed! Not that I would mind very much if Zardari kidnapped her and disappeared with her somewhere! Is Zardari coming by the way? I thought it was just Gilani. Zardari more or less never leaves his official residence. The fear of assassination is too strong.
March 29, 2011 at 4:59 PM
Here you go Satyam- ( link is given by GB in his above artice)
March 29, 2011 at 5:00 PM
BTW – the Obama the anti war hero also had to give in……
March 29, 2011 at 5:15 PM
great speech yesterday though I haven’t been very persuaded by this entire action. If qaddafi leaves Obama has a win but that’s just politics. The problem with humanitarian intervention is that it is a calling of a purely moral sort. When you then mix it in with pragmatic concerns you are of course being sensible but it defeats the larger argument. The message of the speech paradoxically is that Rwanda might still have not been prevented! Because if you don’t have strong allies you don’t have the resolution. Therefore you cannot act and hence it’s not practical do do anything. Many people were worried by this action because they thought this opened the door to all kinds of stuff. The truth is actually it doesn’t at all! In fairness this wasn’t true even for Bush. They made an awful decision with Iraq but they certainly weren’t planning to go everywhere. In fact they were even happy to let Afghanistan be beyond a point. Of course there are neocons who really do want to go everywhere which is why they are the symmetrical opposites of the fundamentalists they pursue.
Having said that this is why people should follow politics more closely. Obama was never totally anti-war. He was just against the Iraq war, his language on Afghanistan was very belligerent throughout the campaign but the Iraq war was all that mattered. Similarly when he received the Nobel speech he made the argument for a ‘just war’ and dug into well known sources of Christian political doctrine for this. So he has never been simply anti-war.
March 29, 2011 at 5:08 PM
the thing is there’s no way to honestly assess Pakistan as a state without sounding anti-Pakistan or at least politically incorrect (even if I’ve attempted this more than once!). At the same time I find the Indian ‘we are being made dupes of’ mentality a little tiresome. There are lots of good reasons for India to not behave responsibly in these matters. With respect to 26/11 there are only three options. Either you launch a war which most Western powers would have in similar circumstances or you cut off every last semblance of diplomatic relations and so on. If not you keep tensions low unilaterally. Now the last course I must admit is not entirely to my liking. I see the reasons for this on a pragmatic level. If you’re shooting up in the world you don’t want anyone to stop this express train. But this then means taking war and so on off the table. But it also encourages the problem in very many ways while also breeding a level of resentment within many quarters in India that no action is being taken (even if I suspect that the ‘multiplex generations’ are quite happy with this state of affairs.. they too do not want the apple-cart rocked). Similarly diplomatic tensions too don’t really achieve anything. The other issue is that there is no ‘they’ there. The Pakistani state is on life-support in many ways but certainly when it comes to who’s really in charge. They are certainly not masters of the chaos they’ve helped unleashed and which is now eating them up as well. The problem with limited strikes and so on is that you then breed more terrorism later on. So on and so forth. It’s a thorny problem, not easily solved. What happened in the aftermath of 26/11 was disgusting even by the standards of Pakistani ‘hey where’s the smoking gun?’ argument. But this is the situation as it stands. And while I can certainly share the sense of utter frustration at how all of this has played out I am unsure as to what solution is the best one.
March 29, 2011 at 5:19 PM
For once even Satyam is flummoxed! LOL!!
I fullly agree with your assessment, the one thing IMO the Indian Govt can do is to not have any Trade links with them which means No artists/ Players etc. should benefit by performing in or for Indians. This may help creat a pressure on the Govt by the affected parties…
March 29, 2011 at 5:26 PM
another great post by Big B, his reflections and reactions to the comments are so genuine…..
March 29, 2011 at 5:21 PM
The blogosphere is reverberating with the impending “mother of all battles” tomorrow
A few interesting snippets—
“Rehyphenation again: Just as we had dehyphenated India-Pakistan in foreign affairs, we had done something similar in cricket too over the past few years. Pakistan was just a lowly 6th ranked team, beset by scandals and not even in a position to host home matches, which we were tired of beating. In their place, Australia and to a lesser extent South Africa, had taken the position of fierce rivals. But then comes this stupid WC semi finals and it is as if the last 5 years hadn’t happened at all and it is back to 1980s. All this hype over the Mohali match has taken India back by at least a decade. Sad.”
Another one–
“Lights.Camera.
Act 1:
After getting smacked by sehwag all over the ground,afridi finally clinches sehwag’s wicket.Sehwag dejectedly walking off the ground gets a standing ovation..Gambhir gives him a main-hoon-na look and turns his head towards afridi 3 times like a sunny deol revenging his brothers death.His eyes so red that he doesnt need a red-glass to spot Mr.India.
Act 2:
Pakistan is happily accumulating runs as none of the Indian bowlers are able to tame Md. Hafeez.Ganguly takes charge.of commentary.Millions of viewers notices the heavy breathing.Zaheer comes back for his second spell.a full delivery placed right in the block hole hits the pad.zaheer is appealing assiduosly like a girl selling flowersin the streets of mumbai..
The umpire is bringing out his hand from behind.But for what.
To buy the flowers or roll up the windows in the car.
Act 3:
Last 5 overs.18 runs.3 wickets.India is in a sticky situation once again.
A lot depends on the tail enders now.Pakistani players are charged up like kasab in the cctv footage and has the we-have-done-it look written all over their face.Bhajji-gul had some eye-rolling romance in the previous over.Gul goes for a yorker length delivery.Bhajji leaves the stump and marches forward.Full contact.
Camera still searching for the ball.”
March 29, 2011 at 5:26 PM
“By 2003, in contrast, it was a more confident India (and Indian team) that took on Pakistan in a fine game in Centurion, South Africa. As it grew as an economy, middle India developed other priorities. It still wanted its cricket team to beat Pakistan, as it does this week, but there were (and are) also other things it wanted in life. Today, the ability to shrug shoulders and move on — and the opportunity cost to not doing so — is greater than at any time earlier.
May this essential equanimity (easy to miss while watching over-the-top news television shows) come through this Wednesday night. Admittedly it would be nice if it were preceded by an Indian victory.”
It is that equanimity and confidence that we had developed over the last few years that I am talking about. By hyping this Mohali match we have turned the clock back to the ’80s.”
Anyhow, something unrelated. The surprising fascination and curiosity for mahatmas sexuality continues..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Mahatmas-attitude-to-sex-continues-to-fascinate/articleshow/7821432.cms
March 29, 2011 at 10:25 PM
From cricket to Bapu’s sex life….makes perfect sense!
Well the English are still pissed off at Bapu for taking away their cash cow…that half naked man took away our most prized possession….India…hmmmm…how can we make you look bad….sex life….yhea.
Bapu was regular human being, flawed. No need to put him on pedestral. We indians tend to do that. But he was no small time sex-addict either. He was somewhere in between…a regular bhakt aadami who was trying to find his spiritual self. Personally, I LOVE him.
March 30, 2011 at 12:54 AM
‘Bapu was a regular human being’- Most certainly we are not talking about the same person here! I think another Munnabhai series is due!
April 1, 2011 at 6:37 AM
@ Latha: “regular human being”
By that I mean he was not god. Spiritually he might be more advanced than you and me but still a abhyasi…not a bhagwan. So abhyasis are allowed to make mistakes. Should not be judged.
Interesting article below as well:
http://www.asianwindow.com/books/mahatma-gandhi-racist-and-bisexual-claims-new-book/
March 31, 2011 at 10:44 AM
Dimps– agree about your comments on the mahatmas sexuality— lol
March 29, 2011 at 10:09 PM
Good luck to india and pakistan. may the best team win!! hopefully pakistan will win but i realize we are underdogs and that whole ‘pressure is on the indian side’ is BS. the pressure is on both and it will be interesting to see who handles it better. can’t get any better than this.
March 29, 2011 at 10:28 PM
If Pakistan loses, no big deal. However if India loses then hamari izzat kaa kachra ho jayega. So yhea….India should not lose! Pressure is more on India’s side dude.
)))))))
Now you see why this match is so HOT!
March 29, 2011 at 11:24 PM
sachin on the front page of espn.com with a featured story. check it out!!!
http://espn.go.com/
March 29, 2011 at 11:27 PM
here is the featured story.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=110329/Cricket
March 29, 2011 at 11:38 PM
its too bad this match had to be a semi final match. imagine the hype and the world exposure cricket would get if this were a finals match…epic.
March 30, 2011 at 3:56 AM
Thanks AamirsFan,
Gr8 Read!!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 30, 2011 at 12:22 AM
@satyam- first look of zindaggi na mile dobarra is out
March 30, 2011 at 12:54 AM
Do you have a link?
March 30, 2011 at 4:00 AM
now actually grb (abbreviation) its was posted on facebook, via a friend of mine, now i dont know how to get it here! but i can send u via mail! or u can check on my facebook profile, if u are there on fb and if u dont mind.
ps- i tried to search on google failed to find a link myself for ya.
March 30, 2011 at 6:13 AM
email it to me..
March 30, 2011 at 11:35 AM
grb it has come out that it was fake poster but satyam has placed it on my request in zindagi thread.
March 30, 2011 at 3:39 AM
BeIng described on BBC as the “biggest cricket match of all time”. Pity : difficult to catch it live due to work but will try. Ol the best!!!
March 30, 2011 at 3:48 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110330/ap_on_re_as/as_india_pakistan
this is gaining momentum..just bope for a memorable match for either side.
March 30, 2011 at 4:29 AM
news is coming, ashwin is replaced by nehra
March 30, 2011 at 5:04 AM
Yes. Ashwin replaced by Nehra. Now we have two losers in Munaf and Nehra.
March 30, 2011 at 5:18 AM
Sehwag on rampage…smash 5 boundaries against GUL
March 30, 2011 at 5:28 AM
Gul taken to the cleaners by Sehwag.
March 30, 2011 at 5:46 AM
sehwag gone
March 30, 2011 at 6:11 AM
Sachin’s giving a heart-attack today!
March 30, 2011 at 6:14 AM
read tom paper… it gave me not one but three
March 30, 2011 at 6:21 AM
Man Sachin is living dangerously every over pretty much, specially with Saeed ajmal! If he does something big today the gods will have wanted it!
March 30, 2011 at 6:28 AM
luck is on his side. im calling it right now. the batting is just way way too strong for our bowlers to handle. the body language from our side is already looking like they have conceded. congrats india.
March 30, 2011 at 6:30 AM
dont worry.. gambhir gone
March 30, 2011 at 6:30 AM
btw good to see Aamir and his wife there at the match. they showed him at the beginning, not sure who else as far as ‘bollywood’ showed up at the match.
March 30, 2011 at 6:24 AM
with the way ajmal is bowling again it brings the question why ashwin is not playing
March 30, 2011 at 6:26 AM
Mstery man!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 30, 2011 at 6:31 AM
yeah that’s a bad decision..
now Gambhir falls.. he too was looking much more fluent than Sachin..
March 30, 2011 at 6:34 AM
SET dropped again
March 30, 2011 at 6:35 AM
um wow…WOW….WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im going to go bald by the end of this damn match!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 30, 2011 at 6:37 AM
Sachin has more lives than a cat today! Half century comes up. There’s a world of difference between this one and the one against Aus. But this is the way it is in cricket a lot of times.
March 30, 2011 at 7:13 AM
this might be ross taylor all over again for pakistan.
March 30, 2011 at 6:41 AM
well ashwin is your number 1 spinner right now
bowled superbly in last 2 matches and on the limited opportunies given in ipl and internationals
has loads of variations and they made him sit
March 30, 2011 at 6:46 AM
completely idiotic decision..
March 30, 2011 at 6:27 AM
may be Big Blunder….
March 30, 2011 at 6:40 AM
Sachin must now capitalize on the dropped catches and get a hundred. Yes Ashwin will be missed.
March 30, 2011 at 6:52 AM
Virat is middling the ball well.
March 30, 2011 at 6:53 AM
oops he’s gone. spoke too early!
March 30, 2011 at 6:56 AM
what a disaster, Yuvraj gone too!
March 30, 2011 at 6:57 AM
PAK BACK
March 30, 2011 at 6:59 AM
good fight back..but ummm…that guy tendulkar is still at the crease…time for dhoni to step up as a captain.
March 30, 2011 at 6:58 AM
Gambhir and Kohli are two big letdowns in this series…had high hopes from both of them…Specially Kohli..
March 30, 2011 at 7:12 AM
Tendulkar now dropped for the third time. The gods are really smiling on him today.
March 30, 2011 at 7:14 AM
kamran the loud idiot.
March 30, 2011 at 7:32 AM
this is looking like the NZ match all over again for Pak. sloppy fielding and the bowling is not sharp as it should be. tendulkar will kill us in the next 10 overs if we don’t get him out.
March 30, 2011 at 7:37 AM
4rth life for sachin. Pakistan has been shoddy in the field today if I may state the obvious!
March 30, 2011 at 7:42 AM
FINALLY…gone. now india will be on the attack and we need to get em OUT.
March 30, 2011 at 7:42 AM
All those drop catches takes the shine away even if its a century, seriously pathetic fielding, how many catches are they gonna drop of tendulkar?
seriously i just left watching as they dropped the nth catch.. ! cant believe it..
best wishes to india though
March 30, 2011 at 7:43 AM
Sachin gone
March 30, 2011 at 7:47 AM
yup and last potential partnership out there.. if they can get there I think even 250 would be a challenging total on this pitch.
March 30, 2011 at 7:52 AM
if pakistan can restrict them to 270-280…they have a real shot at this. like you said….this is the last potenial partnership…they can turn the match. dhoni might bring it home for them.
March 30, 2011 at 7:57 AM
270-280 looks tough from here. I will take 250.
March 30, 2011 at 7:50 AM
good pitching trumps good hitting in baseball and good bowling has had the upper hand over supposedly good batting today. India will be lucky to get 225-250 now.
March 30, 2011 at 8:02 AM
Dhoniiiiiiiiiiiiiiii………… what a disaster….
March 30, 2011 at 8:03 AM
6 dropped catches…wow. we dont deserve this one. harbhajan has killed us in the past he can be very dangerous. dude bats with no fear. we need wickets!!!!
March 30, 2011 at 8:04 AM
Dhoni gone now. He is horribly out of form….needs to do something now.
March 30, 2011 at 8:06 AM
Well he should quit captaincy and concentrate on his wicket keeping and BATTING…
March 30, 2011 at 8:33 AM
they keep showing Aamir Khan and wife kiran. he is looking nervous as hell…even though he is rooting for india i like his enthusiasm.
March 30, 2011 at 8:40 AM
once again in the last 5 overs we give away runs. what should have been a gettable score now looks like a competitive score of 250 and above. we were looking ahead instead of staying in the moment and focusing on getting wickets.
March 30, 2011 at 8:48 AM
yeah I think 260 should be challenging on this pitch.. Raina has come up with crucial runs for the second straight match..
March 30, 2011 at 8:54 AM
india start with a onslaught, pakistan come back with fury and then india respond with a good stand at the end. see saw so far…let the chase begin!!!
March 30, 2011 at 8:56 AM
nerve racking.
March 30, 2011 at 8:56 AM
Let’s see – the ‘strengths’ of the two teams yielded 260 – ‘strong’ bowling v. ‘strong’ batting. Will the weaker combination – weaker bowling v. weaker batting – of the two teams outscore 260?!
This ‘game’ will have a postive effect on Friday’s ‘Game’!
March 30, 2011 at 8:56 AM
Well, in Raina’s own words, the pitch is turning. Just hope Bhaji and Yuvraj work some magic over here. Also hope that Munal and Nehra do not do a Umar Gul repeat.
March 30, 2011 at 8:58 AM
yeah umar gul got lit up today. what a choke job by him. riaz came up big.
March 30, 2011 at 8:59 AM
again India were very foolish to play Nehra instead of Ashwin here..
March 30, 2011 at 9:05 AM
and why the hell ashwain is not in the team? is what i wondered?
also instead of kohli we could have clearly have had pathan! he could atleast have had few sixes!! unlike our pathetic tale where not asingle palyer didnt knew how to hit a six!
March 30, 2011 at 8:58 AM
@satyam check ur email
March 30, 2011 at 9:02 AM
Rooney, thanks I saw that, that’s in all probability not a first look.. it has ‘Flower Designs’ on the image.. even otherwise it doesn’t seem authentic.
March 30, 2011 at 9:10 AM
oh is it! i also doubted it but looked quite nice and in sync!! and also didnt find it on internet .. kk
March 30, 2011 at 9:11 AM
still would request if u can place it as fan made.. it would be good.. as i liked that design.. and would like to share.. if u can place it in comment section of the movies thread.
March 30, 2011 at 9:27 AM
will do..
March 30, 2011 at 9:16 AM
The score board looks like a report card. In one subject 85, another 0 and so on. I thought they may have that usual 217 or so. Thankfully it is a respectable total. Hope Nehra proves himself. Goodluck.
March 30, 2011 at 9:28 AM
Wish Afridi had dropped Sachin’s catch too
March 30, 2011 at 10:21 AM
Is Sachin a cat?
he sure had 9 lives today
but for me he was the best indian batsman on display today
Wahab Riaz had a dream semi-final whereas Gul had a nightmare
This match is very tightly poised.
Pak need to keep wickets and keep close to the Required RR
March 30, 2011 at 11:22 AM
the screws’ve gotten tightened…
118-4 off 29
March 30, 2011 at 11:26 AM
spoke too soon… lol..12 off the next over
March 30, 2011 at 11:50 AM
india in firm control
only a miracle or stupidity by indian bowlers will turn the match for pak
March 30, 2011 at 12:10 PM
they just need to bowl sensibly at this point, keep things simple. Pak’s required RR is double of what they’re doing right now. India have hopefully learnt from the mistakes against Eng and SA. The bowling has come through today, they just need to keep doing what they already have been. Nehra has been alright today but Ashwin would really have helped.
March 30, 2011 at 12:37 PM
enough cricket already
March 30, 2011 at 12:51 PM
Well atleast not for the next week(fever will remain for the next 2-3 weeks probably), if India win the WC that is and India does have a good chance.
March 30, 2011 at 1:05 PM
Nehra coming through in the clutch and Munaf claiming Razaq with a beauty of a leg cutter. And what about the tactical error by Afridi of not claiming the powerplay earlier. That was huge.
March 30, 2011 at 1:14 PM
HURRAY W ARE THRU… ALL CRACKERS
March 30, 2011 at 1:16 PM
Yiippee!
March 30, 2011 at 1:18 PM
Congarts rajen
March 30, 2011 at 1:15 PM
First off congrats to (almost) everyone here. Great win. ‘Almost’ because I extend my commiserations to the Pakistani fans. Think this team did well to reach this point given that this wasn’t necessarily being predicted before the tournament began. Of course losing to India is always problematic (!) but no shame for them in this WC.
Getting back to India must say Jay remained the most optimistic throughout and it’s been rewarded here. I started off optimistic but was quite troubled after the SA loss. But India held it together and I must say the bowling really came through these last two matches. Today’s was the best performance in this sense. Which is the way it must be — teams have to elevate themselves in the big games.
Ponting after losing to India picked India to win for greater mental toughness and this too has come through in some of these matches. Because the batting has certainly not performed optimally in these last two games but again they held it together.
One more match to go. It doesn’t get easier. This SL team too is very tough by this point. They certainly have a very good bowling side and the batting to go with it which incidentally has also peaked at the right time. But they also play outside SL now which makes a difference.
India’s record v Pak in the WC remains perfect.
I would love to revisit some old debates with Johnnybrutal but alas he’s not going to show up! Not gloating at all. But if one has the ability to taunt when things are going the way one desires one should also show up when things don’t turn out well.
for the moment let’s savor this win.. congrats to all the Indian fans once again..
oh… and a shout out for Nehra… despite all my criticism he came through in a big way today.. meanwhile Misbah’s inning seemed to be a remarkable exercise in pointlessness.. he was just playing to his own clock! He suddenly came alive at the very end when 18 runs per over were needed!
Dream final for India but especially Sachin in Bombay.. if he can get his 100th century here it would be quite the icing on the cake.. on the other hand India have lost the two times he’s had a century.. maybe we should wait for the 100th and be satisfied with a half-century.. someone was joking with me today that Pak probably got more concerned when Sachin went on 85! Afridi must be cursing himself for holding on to that catch!
March 30, 2011 at 1:17 PM
Congrats to you all and All Here
March 30, 2011 at 9:34 PM
well congrats to the indian side and ofcourse to the fans there and here. ive been getting harassed by phone calls all damn day at work by my family in india!!!! as miserable as i feel, i have to look at this in a somewhat positive way and keep it real..india are the better team by far. we had no business to go as far as we did in this WC. so i am proud of those players. but at the same time they frustrate the hell outta me…this was a winnable match and i feel pakistan lost this match instead of india winning it.
i feel like we have made a huge step in the right direction in this WC to be back among the best this year. good luck to india in bombay.
oh yeah props to the camera men and producers for showing the hottest indian women and some hot pakistani women throughout the match. lol.
March 30, 2011 at 9:42 PM
Thats a very gracious and sportsmanlike of you, Aaamirsfan.
No wonder you are an Aamir fan.
SRK is probably sulking somewhere as Pakistan lost.
March 30, 2011 at 9:46 PM
yeah i heard he was in his house with the wife watching it on tv. how boring!!
it was a weird feeling to watch Aamir cheer on india…i hate being in that position. lol.
March 30, 2011 at 1:20 PM
Rocky will particularly appreciate it if I say that this is now a Ram-Raavan final!
March 30, 2011 at 1:27 PM
Dont say that,GF will get confused. Who to root for!
March 30, 2011 at 1:29 PM
Sorry,GF. THATS A LOW BLOW.
March 30, 2011 at 9:43 PM
LOL !!! great to see India win….TBH I don’t care about the much for the finals now…..
March 30, 2011 at 9:44 PM
*much about the finals…
March 30, 2011 at 1:31 PM
Sachin gets Man of the Match. Should share with Pakistani fielders.
March 30, 2011 at 2:11 PM
Fully agree..Actully I feel the real man of the Match was the Umpire..Very good officiating !
Third Umpire had busy day today too.
March 30, 2011 at 2:35 PM
LOL! true!
March 30, 2011 at 10:54 PM
There were 3-4 boundries which should have been single or double at most apart from missed catches..
March 30, 2011 at 1:35 PM
Sachin mentioned the effort by the bowlers and the fielders and also the great start given by Sehwag as well as the special knock by Raina. All in all a team effort.
March 30, 2011 at 2:21 PM
@satyam-
even god cant save GAME.. its a disaster saturday imo, plus multiplex would also screen matches!
March 30, 2011 at 2:32 PM
They have chosen right time to release Game to put blame on cricket for its failure. I’ve heard the script and direction are very bad.
March 30, 2011 at 2:49 PM
Now the final will be the real test for India. Sachin, if he wants to be remembered in the history books as a great player has to rise to the occasion. India need him to be at the top of his game this saturday. Srilanka are a very dangerous team in the sub-continent and on top of that they have 2 bowlers with the license to chuck. India also have the motivation to avenge the loss in the 96 semifinal.
Like Satyam said, this is really a Good-Evil/Ram-Raavan battle(evil because of the chuckers) and lets hope for an early diwali this saturday.
March 30, 2011 at 2:55 PM
“Like Satyam said, this is really a Good-Evil/Ram-Raavan battle(evil because of the chuckers) and lets hope for an early diwali this saturday.”
Didn’t mean it that way.. it was just a joke about Raavan’s abode!
March 30, 2011 at 2:59 PM
No.. I knew u didn’t mean it that way but it can also be interpreted like that.
March 30, 2011 at 3:10 PM
This was a huge emotional win for India. They will really need to keep their focus on the ultimate prize now, especially against the ‘Chucking Specialist’ duo.
All the commentators have been blaming Misbah for the batting woes of Pakistan, but its not like the rest of the lot displayed any pariticular sense of shot selection. Most of them were out to careless shots, or to some very tight bowling. He in fact stayed on till the end as an anchor. Even Miandad had played a few similar innings in WC matches in the past, where he would just curb his natural aggression and try to keep one end intact while the rest of the team just threw their wickets away.
March 30, 2011 at 3:09 PM
It was nice sight to see elated sonia gandhi with both hands in air as last catch was taken…
aamir was seen tense, standing up and praying… it was nerve wrecking 100 hrs… ppl there in stadium and outside..
March 30, 2011 at 3:22 PM
Great relief atlast. But I also felt bad for the losing team. How much flak have they to face? This win feels better than the final.
March 30, 2011 at 3:56 PM
Agreed with you Satyam..I was also optimistic along with Jay..agreed he was most optmistic I was a close second !
Big moment everyone Saturday India..hoping for the best.. Sometimes you have to give it to Dhoni the captain..if India win the toss Saturday I hope he doesnt do what Azhar and Ganguly did..Both were great captains who never scaled the same heights after those important loses..But tbh if Inida are meant to win toss decision wont matter
March 30, 2011 at 5:02 PM
I could catch only parts of the live action today on the move, but caught parts of it esp towards the end.
Well played india and congrats.
to add, pak have not been disgraced either and actually have exceeded expectations here!
Now after watching the highlights, was surprised how many times 10dulkar got dropped…Was easily one of the forgettable tentative performances and maybe not exactly a man-of the match performance(although he was the topcorer by far from either side)
March 30, 2011 at 5:10 PM
The thing is it’s not a pitch he particularly likes. But yes today’s was an especially scratchy inning. Having said that the Pakistani fielding didn’t seem half as bad with anyone else! So maybe he psyched them out a bit with his current form. He’s had centuries so far against SA and Eng, a half century against Aus where he was in fine form and a rather uninspired 85 today (though at points he was producing fantastic strokes even here). But hey I’ll take all the runs! If he can come up with a big moment in Bombay that would be the icing on the cake. India have actually performed well against all the good bowling attacks in this WC. The only one remaining is SL and this is definitely a dangerous combo of pace and spin. But I think India will pull it off. What I like about these last two matches is that they won them without batting optimally. They showed some real hustle which is what is needed in these big games.
March 30, 2011 at 5:27 PM
Sachin’s runs today were lucky of course but I’ll take em any which way they come. Today, his 85 in the context of just getting runs and setting up a total were priceless. Sehwag’s early onslaught was important, even if he didn’t go on and get more. Because the way the run rate dropped for India, if they had started a bit slower, they would have struggled. Sehwag’s blistering start ensured India were at +5 run rate throughout which was damn important in the end.
Pakistan dropped the cup so to speak 4 times really. Nabbing Tendulkar was the key and he punished them even if it was not a truly big one, it was significant enough to ensure the rest of the batting order could at least bat out 50 overs.
Not much to say on Pakistan’s run chase. I was bantering with work colleagues thru the day and said one thing…if India can get Pakistan to a situation where they needed 6 an over at around 100-3, the game was there’s. Pretty much what happened in the end. Misbah played a great test match knock, completely gave the game to India. Poor innings despite top scoring.
Dhoni needs to SORT OUT his batting. He is the weak link in the batting at the tournament, neither is he playing blistering cameo knocks or playing sheet anchor role well. He’s escaped so far because India have found ways to win. But he has got to play naturally otherwise he is putting pressure on the rest.
Always felt India would get to the final. I worry now for them. Australia and Pakistan is as tougher route they could get “emotionally” – they are the two teams in the world they share incredible history with and hope they have enough in the tank left. But they basically have not played a bad game so far. Eng and SA were games they could and should have won and they did not get beaten up. Australia and Pakistan, they chased 260+ and defended 260+ in pressure matches. They have got to start as favourites.
Bowling is what most ppl thought was the key – well the SA’s, Pak’s and Aus’s are disposed off. In SL and India, we have teams who have 6 of the top 10 run scorers in the tournament left. It’s going to be India’s IMO. Better batting line-up and bowling is peaking at right time. SL have not had tough matches in knock out stages and will play on Indian soil. BIG ADVANTAGE for India.
The fairytale for Sachin is there. Not so worried if it does not happen for him. He has again proved he is a vital player for India, scoring most runs again in a tournament for India so far and only 3 behind Dilshan to top score in another WC. Also his 4 main knocks have come against Eng, SA, Aus and Pak. He has saved his runs for the big matches. Zaheer, Harbhajan and Yuvraj – decent bowling attack, potentially potent given the right pitch. It will be Murali’s last vs Tendulkar’s dream. And the appetiser of Dilshan vs Sehwag as top openers. I’m confident India will do it. They’ve won ugly, not convincing but they’ll do it.
March 30, 2011 at 5:37 PM
agreed on everything here… great summary of everything..
March 30, 2011 at 7:31 PM
Well summed up,Jay.
India has played well enough and more importantly have been more or less consistent with almost all key players clicking at one time or another.
I am hopeful about an Indian victory but is certainly not a given.
For once am not too bothered about Sachin’s hundred.If it happens, great. But, an Indian victory is the major goal.
Have to acknowledge, Alex gt his picks right.
As they say, even a broken watch tells the correct time twice a day! Just jokin,Alex.
March 30, 2011 at 7:53 PM
I too am not obsessed with a century here but I would like him to contribute with something useful even if as Jay suggested he’s done superbly in this tournament even as things stand.
March 30, 2011 at 8:18 PM
“Have to acknowledge, Alex gt his picks right.”—Thanks rajen and satyam…..
March 30, 2011 at 9:41 PM
the sehwag onslaught at the beginning was crucial because it TOTALLY demoralized umar gul in the first spell. that dude didn’t know what hit him and where it hit him…he wasn’t the same the whole match including his piss poor fielding.
yes pakistan fought back but you just can’t give up 50 runs in the first 6 overs with supposedly the best bowling attack in the world.
March 30, 2011 at 5:05 PM
If someone remembers predictions BEFORE the start of the WC –I had named sri lanka and india—both have made the final—-think i will try to dig the link to prove this…..lol
The other prediction was that the india-australia qf will decide the ultimate winner of wc—remains to be seen…
March 30, 2011 at 5:06 PM
we believe you!
March 30, 2011 at 5:13 PM
Pakistan blunders—-1)dropping sachin four times is unpardonable
2)Even when afridi and razzaq(the last batsmen) were there, the powerplay was not taken—why????did they forget about powerplays?
Imp thingz about this india performance—-
1) ALL bowlers took atleast 2 wickets—rare
2) no part time bowler needed
3) Raina played another under rated gem for the second successive match(although slower and more defensive than expected)
4) The imp of Sehwags little cameo in the beginning cannot be under-emphasied—–as i have told umpteen times before, its not the no of runs sehwag socres, but the humiliating way he massacres the bowlers that dents the oppostion bolwers. In this match, the most potent pacer umar gul was nailed from the start and gul lost not only his rhythm but also his marbles and even his yorker towards the end to lesser batsmen
March 30, 2011 at 5:20 PM
agreed on Raina.. and most counts here..
Sehwag seems to particularly love Pakistan! Irrespective of the conditions and the bowling he takes them to task particularly severely. But he’s still due for a really big one in this tournament. Hope he can do it in the final.
On Sachin I am annoyed they didn’t drop him a couple of times more. He could have completed his 100th century!
The most mystifying guy was still Misbah who evidently was on his own track of completing a test half century!
March 30, 2011 at 5:59 PM
Have posted my comments on the predictions BEFORE the start of the world cup.PLz see the date and is obviously verifiable from the wc thread lol. Note the comment about not only sri lanka and india making it but also about south africa (chokers) and australia (no lnger the same team) seeming suspect.
HAHAHA-Not fishing for compliments, but feel vindicated here—–
alex adams Says:
February 17, 2011 at 5:14 PM
If one has to pick the best team right now, i will say south africa.
But they are chokers in the final stages and there is no doubt about it—dont think they will change.
The way australia lost the warm up against india last week shows the problem they are in–the teams past credentials are not matching their current capabilities.
Wont even put england out of the mix actually.
But again if one has to choose one, Sri Lanka will be the one followed by the sentimental favoirties (and among the top 3 right now anyhow)—india…
March 30, 2011 at 6:10 PM
good picks!
March 30, 2011 at 6:11 PM
My above comments are obviously verifiable.
The non verifiable one —-I couldnt see most of indias batting live (except the last few overs). BUt when i came to know that india is batting first in a day nite match, i placed a bet pn india winning….
And im convinced that under most conditions and pitches, in sf or final setup esp against pak, batting first and putting runs on the board is the easier way to win,
Batting second in a day nite match in semi final or final of WC is tense for ANY team….A couple of quick wickets in succession sends the shiver.
For the final—BAtting first against the likes of chuckers and slingers shall be crucial…..
March 30, 2011 at 6:12 PM
Sachin ki kismat main uski 100th century World Cup final main hi likhi hai
Aamir Khan gives his first-hand account of the closely contested India-Pakistan match
Posted On Thursday, March 31, 2011 at 02:59:41 AM
Watching this great India-Pakistan match live, that too in such an electrifying atmosphere at Mohali, has been the most exciting experience.
India played wonderfully and deserved this win. Sehwag gave us a solid, flying start, which made a lot of difference and Sachin played a fabulous knock with some great luck by his side. Sachin’s innings proved to be an important anchor to our batting. It was quite a grim scene for the team when we lost a few wickets in quick succession.
As we kept losing wickets, Kiran and I were very tense like everyone else in the stadium. But despite the fall of wickets, I thought our batsmen batted sensibly. By and large, they kept their heads cool because of which we could stack up a fighting total of 260.
In the second half, the bowlers did a fantastic job and consistently got wickets. I think the turning point for India was when Pakistan was at 103 and lost their fourth wicket Younis Khan to Yuvraj.
Sachin played another terrific innings. God was on his side but kismat had it that he would not make his much-awaited century. But I am quite certain that he will bring in his grand century in the finals.
Sachin ki kismat main uski 100th century World Cup final main hi likhi hai. I will now meet Sachin, Sehwag and the rest of the boys at the hotel, congratulate them for this excellent victory and wish them luck for the final.
After that, I will have to immediately fly back to Mumbai and begin my shoot early morning. This was definitely a very memorable match.
March 30, 2011 at 6:18 PM
Unlike most, I care a damn about sachins 100th century.
He has got all the time in the world to get it.
One need not get this “compromise” abouit an indian win vs sachins century—Find this obsession with sachins century a bit too much—-and even sachin may agree with this (maybe not privately…lol)
Even sachin will prefer winning the world cup and NOT this so called century…
Infact, I have this supersititious belief and even bet on this fact—-
That if sachin scores a century today, India will NOT win and vice versa—Feel the same about the final…
March 30, 2011 at 6:26 PM
For all the sincerety and obssession with which sachin has served indian cricket, think it is incumbent on the rest of the team to gift sachin the cup in the final.
The way sachin had 4 dropped catches was really something. From the highlights, sachin did appear quite tentative.
I dont recall any sachin innings where he was let off so many times and not many time where he appeared so vulnerable (maybe it appeared magnified in the highlights!)
Makes me think if he indeed is destined to somehow life the cup b4 hanging his boots
March 30, 2011 at 6:33 PM
It is only fitting for the BIGGEST CRICKETER EVER to lift the WORLDCUP on his home ground.
Most people get credibility and their credentials are enhanced by awards and cups (world cup here)
IN the case of sachin, the credibility of an award itself gets enhanced by his accepting it…
If sachin ends up NOT winning the world cup, it will be as much a loss for sachin as for the “cup” itself.
This statement is not as outrageous as it initially appears.
(To a lesser extent)—reminds me of how deewar will always be remembered for the film in which amitabh was NOT given an obvious “best actor” award.
In a way, it was a blot on filmfare awards ecredentials than amitabh himself.
Must add here though, that Sachin seems to have surpassed even amitabh in the context of comparison here (as of now)….
March 30, 2011 at 7:22 PM
agreed..
In Bachchan’s case he actually was so dominant as a star and as an actor that he should have won it every year for years in a row. But of course that didn’t happen.
March 30, 2011 at 7:00 PM
You people are so lucky to get a chance to keep tab on the game’s progress when it was on.
Down Under, Packer’s Channel 9 only telecast the 2nd innings of matches including India vs Australia quarter final.
Also, time difference means we only get to have a glimpse of the 1st innings. The last score at 11 pm Aussie time was – India 150 for 4 (via internet). I found out about India’s victory this morning.
Satyam, it has been interesting to read the discussions on the various matches on this blog – thanks!
March 30, 2011 at 7:24 PM
glad you enjoyed our ramblings here..
It’s very odd that they were showing only one inning at your end. Was there any option to buy a package or something?
But yeah those time differences are brutal. There have been instances when I’ve followed the WC in India or the cricket/soccer WC matches in the US by waking up in the middle of the night or early morning.
March 30, 2011 at 7:36 PM
Satyam – channel 9 gave some lame excuse about airing some other program – the reality is $$$$$! A lot of Aussies posted bitter comments in local news papers about this.
For some reason my response to Alex Adams has not appeared at the right place
March 30, 2011 at 7:01 PM
Australians did not get a chance to see Ponting’s century in the quarter final due to non-broadcast of 1st innings by channel 9. Irnonical as Kerry Packer was instrumental in the one day internationals in the first place
March 30, 2011 at 7:10 PM
Filmibuff–hope there is no “curry bashing” down under instead of the cricket match lol–just joking…
Also to add–Dhonis stress managment is v good. PLus his keeping has been consistently good. dhoni is a v good man manager…
Also liked the way dhoni admitted in the post match breifing that he got the team selection wrong(no 2nd spinner)
March 30, 2011 at 7:28 PM
yes he should have definitely played Ashwin though he was lucky that Nehra came through in a big way. Also even as his batting has gone through a meltdown where mysteriously he’s decided to become Gavaskar batting in the lower middle order (!) and certainly his captaincy also seems less adventurous he did show some real hustle with the bowling changes today not giving the Pakistanis time to settle down with one partnership. He’s retained his cool as well. But really there’s no excuse for his batting failures. He used to be such a dynamite hitter when he got going, these days he doesn’t even try.
March 30, 2011 at 7:29 PM
Alex – nah no curry bashing. however, the media and blogs were out for Ponting’s blood even before the qtr final match saying that he should be stripped of his captaincy if we lose the match. Ponting has resigned as you may be aware and Clark has been appointed as the new captain.
March 30, 2011 at 7:35 PM
Thanks filmbuff.
Hoped Ponting gets “stripped” literally (and not only of his captaincy).
BUt hope u take care and stay out of trouble….lol
March 30, 2011 at 7:39 PM
Thanks Alex – I do tend to stay out of trouble! I wish I knew how to post a smiley here – any one with tips?
Alex, r u based in UK?
March 30, 2011 at 7:10 PM
Congratulations India!
Despite my reservations before the start of the tournament, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this world cup. The direction the game was taking since the start of IPL had left me disillusioned with cricket and I’d lost touch with it. So it was good to be reconnected with the game. Only complain I’ve is the recurring shots of Vijay Mallya and Preity Zinta, it was like relieving a nightmare
March 30, 2011 at 7:32 PM
The memorable takeaways I got from this game were the blistering start provided by Sehwag, the lucky yet useful innings of Sachin the invaluable cameo of Raina (his 36 were very important runs), the two important wickets from Yuvraj, the leg cutter from Munaf that dsimissed Razaq, the straight one from round the wicket from Bhajji that dsimissed Akmal and the tight bowling of Nehra. All in all a good all round performance by the Indian team.
March 30, 2011 at 11:06 PM
Some points relevant and irrelevant.
Sachin is the most invaluable player. Let him be there for the next cup.
World Cup is the real thing, like a loyal wife. IPL is like a mistress.
We may name Bombay as Mumbai but we retain cricket and dont call it gilli danda even for the sake of patriotism.
Luck plays a vital part in life and death situations.
While other sports like chess, tennis, badminton are multiplex, cricket is single screen blockbuster for Indians.
In this game, only a win matters and a loss is not forgiven. While we are lifting our players to the skies, most would not have hesitated to trample them to dust. The chess and tennis players must be breathing easy. They may not get this type of euphoria, but they wont get death threats(burning effigies, decorating with chappal malas, or making them hide).
In India, the real heroes are not the jawans, the matinee idols but the winning cricketers on a day like 30/3/11.
Not but the least. The difference between Aamir Khan and Khans. Aamir Khan did not mind losing his pakistani fans by publicly cheering for India.
March 30, 2011 at 11:09 PM
ot but the least. The difference between Aamir Khan and some other Khans. Aamir Khan did not mind losing his pakistani fans by publicly cheering for India.
Reply
March 30, 2011 at 11:48 PM
First and foremost congrats to India. Pak did not play there best but India never allowed them to.
Now I don’t know bout SRK but Salman was at his panvel house. He then (according to sources) threw a party for the victory of India.
Anyway I find that irrelevant really. Now here were just gonna have banter that once again in a world cup match India beat us.
March 30, 2011 at 11:59 PM
i agree here…aamir was wearing patriotism on his sleeves yesterday and was animated all through the match and OTHER khan deliberately skipped the match to safegaurd his fan base across the border
March 31, 2011 at 12:55 AM
Vatikarla & Hector – Has it occurred to you both that Aamir may be a genuine cricket fan and was able to attend the semi final to enjoy the game? As any other fan he must have been excited and tense when the match was on. I find it far fetched to be attributing “patriotism” for Aamir attending the match and other film stars not attending for the same reason. There may be genuine reasons for other film stars not attending the match.
March 31, 2011 at 1:06 AM
I never said patriotism. I said worried about fan following in Pakistan. Everyone wants to protect their turf. Congress with its secular rhetoric, Shivsena with its marathi manoos thing, BJP with its hindu plus sonia bashing talk.
March 31, 2011 at 1:09 AM
Losing fans is a big thing for movie stars Especially overseas success makes one an international star of sorts. It has nothing to do with patriotism per se but makes things a bit hazy.
March 31, 2011 at 1:56 AM
Ha ha. I guess Hector is being ironical in writing whatever he has written above–meaning, he possibly finds Vatikala’s statement questionable.
@ Vatikala–Aamir has of course always worn his patriotism openly, and I like him for it. However he is never jingoistic in this regard, has occasionally spoke positively about Pakistani people in general. I also find that Aamir does not wear his religion openly either. Well, as for other Khans keeping away, I guess it is also a question of getting vvip box tickets, plus, having enough time and convenience to spend a day at a match venue. SRK may have simply decided to watch only the final in Mumbai.
Our attitude filled India film media making their usual biased comments on Bollypeople participation in WC semi-final.
Here is The Telegraph from Kolkata speaking with its usual snobby tone–
Mumbai, March 30: The superstars chose to give Mohali the miss, but stars there were aplenty at the show.
Seen in the stands today were a bevy of Bollywood actors, including Preity Zinta, Aamir Khan, Viveik Oberoi, Rahul Bose, Suneil Shetty, Arbaaz Khan and wife Malaika, Dino Morea as well as filmmaker Madhur Bhandarkar.
So were corporate bigwigs Mukesh and Nita Ambani, UB Group chairperson Vijay Mallya and Raymond Group’s Gautam Singhania.
Missing the show live were superstars Shah Rukh Khan and Amitabh Bachchan. While Shah Rukh chose to stay home and watch the match with friends Karan Johar, Farhan Akhtar, Hrithik and Suzanne Roshan and Arjun Rampal, Bachchan opted to work as usual.
“All asking if I am going to Mohali… no I am not… I am working… and neither is Abhishek going. Team relaxed rahe bas yahi dua hai,” Bachchan tweeted.
Shah Rukh told reporters after the Indian innings that he would go to Wankhede on Saturday if India made the final. He said the team had put up a “good score” and would hopefully defend it.
“Abhi picture baki hai (The show is not over yet).
Read the rest of report at
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110331/jsp/nation/story_13790371.jsp
Some more pics of bollywalas and walis watching WC semis.
ttp://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/30/20110331201103310259368115591e699/Match-fix.html
Loved Priety’s look– tricoloured bangles, hah ha!
SRK cheering–
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/30/2011033120110331025939186dee6cb31/SRK-jumps-for-joy.html?pageno=1
http://www.mid-day.com/entertainment/2011/mar/310311-Shah-Rukh-bash-Salman-Khan-Salim-Khan.htm
And finally, here is a shameful account of a middle class family having to leave the match mid-way, because of inadequate water-toilet facilities inside stadium. Note that one is not allowed to bring in one’s own drinking water. What a shame that the common man is made to suffer in this manner. I guess only VVIPs are allowed to watch matches in comfort—in this our democratic India. Sad.
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2011/mar/310311-water-drink-stadium-Gurjot-Puri.htm
March 31, 2011 at 2:23 AM
Really a good match and a good win for India. With so much of hype, it almost felt like the final!
I think SRK did say that getting tickets was difficult as there were too many persons in his group and he would cheer for India from his home. So I don’t think his not going to Mohali has got anything to do with his Pakistani fan base- given the fact that Hindi movies don’t even get a proper release there!
March 31, 2011 at 2:59 AM
Pakistanis in US, UK and other phoren countries.
Actually it was my last point, irrelevant, but with some point.
What I hated about yesterday’s match hysteria was blaming cricketers when they fail to deliver. It is like putting undue pressure on their wards by parents to excel or perish. In case India lost that crucial match, we would have been in deep mourning today. And I feel bad for the Pakistanis who also had so much hope.
March 31, 2011 at 2:39 AM
http://www.koimoi.com/bollywood-news/celebrity-gossip/why-shah-rukh-khan-did-not-go-to-mohali/
What is the necessity for so much explanation from a section of media. Going to a match or not, it’s a personal thing, not a big deal.
March 31, 2011 at 5:21 AM
Okay, correct me if I am wrong..
This match had all the indications of being fixed.
Its not just Sachin’s dropped catches.
It was all written the moment India beat Australia that it would go on to win the semi final too, as I had predicted.
If India had lost the semis against Pakistan, who would have bothered to go in the stadium to watch SL play Pakistan in the financial capital of India, Mumbai… that generates revenues like no city in India does..?
Now imagine how much revenue would be generated when India plays the final..
The bookies must have paid a lot to Pakistani cricketers to be out of the WC final..
Being emotionalis fine.. but if you look at the practical aspect of it, Pakistan should have won this match easily..!
March 31, 2011 at 5:23 AM
and remember, you heard it here first.. SL is going to give India a good thrashing in the WC final..!!
Sorry Team India and its many fans! The WC is Lanka’s this time..
March 31, 2011 at 9:54 AM
You cannot pick both sides of the coin! By your ‘thesis’ India should win the final as well! Ambani spent 15 cr on his seats at Chandigarh – he could give 100 cr to SL to raise a point of their total GDP!
After all winning the semi (even against Pak) without winning it all makes for little satisfaction. Sachin might be dropped 10 times now to make his 100th 100 – let’s see, won’t we?!
March 31, 2011 at 8:25 AM
Re: What is the necessity for so much explanation from a section of media. Going to a match or not, it’s a personal thing, not a big deal.
One would normally agree with the statement but it is a part of a bigger picture and illustrative of SRK ‘s politics. I am not sure he is not rooting for a Pakistan victory but am not sure if he is overjoyed at India’s victory and am definitely certain that he is uncomfortable being seen rejoicing in India’s victory in public. He has been on record saying that when India plays Pakistan, he does not want either to lose. And, it is all about appeasing and maintaining his fan base. The other day Alex said sometyhing about him being asexual. While that may or not be true, he certainly has ideological and practical problems when it comes to India- Pakistan issues. The most important thing for him is maintaining his fan base and keeping them happy without ruffling feathers. All Khans have fans in Pakistan and India and Hindu and Muslim fans. THe problem with SRK is the kind of Muslim fans he attracts. Have yet to see an Indian Muslim SRK fan enthusiastically rooting for India in these situations on the blogs. or a Pakistani Muslim SRK fan graciously accepting a Pakistan loss. He seems to attract the most communal of all Muslims. The worst kind of Anti-india rants are seen on SRK fan sites. Even, when there is an attack on Indian soil by Pakistani terrorists, he finds it hard to openly condemn it. For a person who talks a lot and is eager to show his ‘andar ka Musselman” he suddenly has marbles in his mouth ( or may be it is Karan’s nuts) and has some incomprehensible noises to make. He is not above playing the Khan card to appease his fans. Hence his corcodile tears and statement about Pak being a good neoghbour when Pakistan players were not selected for IPL. He is aided and abtted in this by his work wife ( KJo). I have nothing against Pakistan or Muslims but certainly am not a fan of the communal elements.
I think above is irrefutable and if SRK fans take umbrage, so be it.
March 31, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Agree with rajen about Srk there
March 31, 2011 at 10:18 AM
very very well said Rajen…..
March 31, 2011 at 11:49 AM
Sorry to say, but its an extremely biased and offensive piece.
First, it reflects your overconfidence in assuming the psychology of every SRK fan on earth, as well as in hurting religious sentiments.
Secondly, you answered your own doubts when you ask why SRK doesn’t want to be seen over-celebrating the success of India. Maybe you forgot his celebrations when India won the T20 WC against Pakistan sometime in 2007. Though even if one assumes that its true in SRK’s case, I believe no one in his position would not behave the way he did.
Moreover, your comments make it seem as if the world would be a much better place if SRK wouldnt be a part of it. According to you, is he the only one in the industry who is synonymous with manipulation and unethical behaviours?
Btw what would your response be if SRK was on the cricket ground, promoting DMD after India’s innings against South Africa?
March 31, 2011 at 11:58 AM
i m well known srk-basher(!) but rajen this was not required.this looks more of ur views n u hv generalised things like dat.not healthy at all!
March 31, 2011 at 12:07 PM
“Have yet to see an Indian Muslim SRK fan enthusiastically rooting for India in these situations on the blogs.”
come to india,u will see a lot of them!
March 31, 2011 at 12:11 PM
Wasn’t SRK cheering for India in 20-20 world cup final against Pakistan a few years ago. He was waving Indian flag and was dancing when Pakistani wickets were falling. Now we have an opportunity to bash SRK and all this is comfortably forgotten.
March 31, 2011 at 8:31 AM
This was a killer post Rajen, cheers !!
March 31, 2011 at 8:33 AM
& tonymontana you are all wrong, will correct you on 2nd of April
March 31, 2011 at 8:47 AM
I somehow like this handsome Dhoni who is the backbone of this Indian side. He takes his own decisions and sticks to it irrespective of umpteen voices protesting and cursing. At the end of it, we have a cool captain. The players are flourishing under him. He is there to take the flak. No accolades for him. That is the price to be paid for his no nonsense attitude and not playing to the gallery. The fans are so fickle.
March 31, 2011 at 8:54 AM
SRK is an Afghan immigrant – let it not be forgotten.
He’ll watch the final though as it has SL!
March 31, 2011 at 8:56 AM
Yeah, suddenly there will be tickets for his entourage available!
March 31, 2011 at 9:07 AM
He’s made billions, ‘duped’ Indian ‘fans’ and yet cannot owe allegiance to his adopted country.
March 31, 2011 at 8:57 AM
sticks to them.
As for Sachin, he is not at all selfish as some make him to be. If not for his flow of runs, India would never have reached semi final and winning it. He is the gentleman cricketer and there is no one like him when it comes to restraint and humility.
He inspires many a budding cricketer and will remain as an ideal to many.
I dont much give importance for his hundreds though they are records. I am happy when his runs make us cruise to victory whether they are 85 or 50 And these runs are saving us.
March 31, 2011 at 9:55 AM
lETS SEE WHAT DOES IND DO IN THE FINALS WITH LANKANS
JAI HIND!!!
VANDE MADARAM!!!
March 31, 2011 at 10:03 AM
what selfish :
he has been a part of all 5 indian victories over pak in wc and played a crucial role in all so its nothing new
even in 92 it was a young 19 year old who made a 50 odd of 57 in late order and set up the game against imran , wasim , waqar and mushtaq
as usual the man never speaks but let his bat do all the talking
its just people tend to rememher his 100 alot
March 31, 2011 at 3:34 PM
Sachin has 3 MOM awards against Pak in just world cups – 92, 03 and 11 .. his record generally against Pak in ODI’s is decent/good (not his best) but he does save it for when it counts
March 31, 2011 at 10:09 AM
ya srk not making for the match was surprising especially when you even had the gandhis around in the match
tonymontana:
another absurd and baseless logic
by this even pakistan making to semis should be probed because no one expected it that to
cricket is not all about if and butt’s
what if yuvraj had not got a first ball grat deleivry or gautam would not have played a reckless shot or for that matter ashwin played on this pitch
if and butt’s do not influence the results
March 31, 2011 at 10:23 AM
92 pak has aqib instead of waqar
but ya great final and may be the last match (in wc) of 2 real legends …sachin and murli
for all his controversies murli (with bishan bedi)…he still is very loved cricketer in india and he married a girl from chennai only
March 31, 2011 at 11:44 AM
A cocktail of spectator sports and patriotism can make the most sane minds & healthy bodies intoxicated.
@Rajen Why dont you take potshots at Salman,Rahman et al? Are you completely in accordance with Tibbets ‘Cricket Test’ theory or you are just using the aforesaid incident in a most opportunistic manner for your comfort and showing favouritism selecting people whom you want to defame.
Secondly, vis-a-vis IND-SL final, are all the Tamil Stars and (and,especially with the elections around the corner)Politicians are required to show their presence to escape your wrath?
March 31, 2011 at 11:52 AM
best video ever http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/afridi-s-daughter-s-match-analysis/195159
afridi’s daughter is so cute! bichaari bachchi ko misbah rula diya!
March 31, 2011 at 12:13 PM
this link is better
March 31, 2011 at 11:52 AM
and I forgot in this case Religion is also mixed in the cocktail.
March 31, 2011 at 12:38 PM
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/srk-salman-say-thank-you-team-india/195155
March 31, 2011 at 1:00 PM
In terms of some of the issues Rajen has raised and many of which I commented on at great length when the Shiv Sena controversy started let me repeat some stuff here and/or add to it:
1) I can never forgive SRK for forcing me to defend the Shiv Sena recently when he suggested at the India Today conclave that as a Muslim he couldn’t say ‘Bombay’ and would therefore stick with ‘Mumbai’. My point there was that much as the Shiv Sena disgusts me it must be said that their rabid ethnocentrism in this matter assuredly transcends issues of religion. So it’s not as if ‘Hindus’ say ‘Bombay’ and get away with it!
2) This anecdote though illustrates something important about SRK’s modus operandi. Throughout his career but especially when he’s been vulnerable at times he’s oscillated between two poles. On the one hand the bravado and brashness, the ‘I am king’ posture. On the other the ability to suddenly become a victim who is being ill-treated by others (whether it’s as a Muslim or as a someone getting bullied by the comments of other stars or whatever).
In each instance SRK plays dumb to put it mildly. There is stuff that he instigates but when it gets out of hand he quickly goes over to the other side and pretends to be defenseless. whether it’s the provocative jokes or more serious statements or some of the political posturing or what have you.
This entire structure is sustained by a film media that is more or less in bed with him, relationships he’s nurtured over the years, and so on but also with the complicity of the overall liberal media which too is very soft on him. So we saw this with the Shiv sena episode where SRK made the most timid statements, increasingly meeker ones with time but he did not issue a formal apology. The media made this into some sort of incredibly heroic stance. As if the Sena was otherwise going to kidnap SRK and waterboard him! And what happened later? SRK statements got even more conciliatory over time, he went to the sena residence, talked about how they were family, how Thackeray was like a father, so on and so forth. some heroism! The media again conveniently ignored all of this. If anything the controversy helped MNIK to some degree unlike say Aamir’s properly principled stance with Modi where his film did not release in Gujarat, lost significant revenue and he still wasn’t willing to apologize. And in this instance it wasn’t even that Modi had attacked Aamir. The latter got involved in the dam issue which then invited the response.
The liberal media in India tries very hard to be politically correct in certain matters. Upto a point I understand this. They don’t want to be co-opted by the right if they criticize minorities. SRK then becomes the beneficiary of this. But they also go further with SRK than they do with most others. And it’s one thing to white-wash an episode and quite another to construct a different fiction about it. Now I actually supported SRK when the Sena initially started attacking him and I still defend that position. But SRK’s cynicism became apparent rather immediately.
3)This then leads to another point. SRK has at least publicly been willing to display a certain degree of ambivalence when it comes to the India-Pakistan issue. Whether it’s cricket or 26/11 he tends to offer ambiguous statements if at all. So when it’s the former he wants to talk about nice neighbors, when it’s the latter he wants ‘both’ to win (once stunned the Indian team by saying so in their presence), etc etc. Now for a star like him who’s frankly no slouch when it comes to the ‘publicity hound sweepstakes’ it was a bit odd to see him not attend the match yesterday on a silly pretext of tickets or whatever. So this is the one huge arena where SRK decides he doesn’t want the attention!
It is not I think a completely indefensible conclusion to draw given his history in Indo-Pak matters that he did not want to be seen as coming out on the side of one team or the other. Sure he came out of his house after the team one and offered an ‘image’. Sure he’s supported India at times. But overall this is still a very ambiguous set of responses from him and where there are enough ‘dog whistles’ neatly embedded. So his remark at the India Today conclave is one kind of dog whistle. But so are other statements where the figure of the ‘Indian Muslim’ is often deliberately confused with the figure of the ‘Pakistani’ and in effect there is a reliance on an old ‘two nation’ archive.
Each such statement or posture operates in a zone of ‘deniability’. One literally isn’t saying anything, even if SRK pushes the envelope even here at times. If 26/11 cannot be condemned outright what lower bar could there be?! Who says ‘I want both teams to win’?! But still maybe he’s being foolish or incoherent. Or so the excuse goes. And the media doesn’t take him to task for it so he’s ok.
4)To suggest however that there is no pattern at all to his statements is I think disingenuous or dishonest. He very clearly projects himself as a figure who is very sympathetic to Pakistan and not willing to be completely on India’s side if it’s Pakistan on the other. All of this is obvious from his statements. There is at the very least great ambivalence to his remarks as I keep suggesting.
Now there’s a practical angle to all of this. Why is he playing so much to the Pakistani contingent? Is it purely cynical? They’re big in the overseas markets, the very audiences he needs to keep showing up if he’s going to keep pulling off ‘scams’ like KANK and MNIK (hey ok in India but record-breaking overseas!) but also those with whom he’s establishing these ideological links. There is a strong correlation here. Either this is just a good business decision for him or else it’s part of his overall political position.
5)But let’s unpack all of this. If it’s pure cynicism I think it is deeply objectionable as the politics of Indo-Pak issues are already too full of mine-fields for anyone to start playing these cynical games. Specially as an Indian Muslim he greatly damages other minorities who have no interest in any ‘two nation’ idea. He feeds the old stereotypes of the Indian Muslim secretly waving Pak flags and so on. Why? Isn’t it obvious?! If a star as culturally important as SRK, as privileged as he is, if a star like him could be so big in India surely being ‘Muslim’ has not been a problem?! It certainly is for many minorities in other situations but not for him. Why then play this minority card when you have never faced the slightest bit of disadvantage because of it? It’s not just him. What other Muslim actor has suffered for the sheer fact of being a Muslim? The media proudly celebrates “Khans” all the time! Even a bona fide star like Hrithik is never given as much ‘love’ by the media! So where’s the problem? He’s hardly living in a depressed community where he’s subject to police harassment! So why does he need to play the Muslim victim and confirm those ‘two nation’ ideologues on both sides of the border (including the Hindutva brigade which fantasizes about making India ‘Hindu’ as a mirror image of Pakistan)?
So if it’s cynical it’s very dangerous but let’s say he genuinely believes some of this stuff. Then other pragmatic questions arise. In certain political contexts there is the principle and then the practice. So for example in most public settings in the US if you start voicing very strong anti-Israeli views you might want to start looking for another position elsewhere! Because even if you are simply criticizing the state’s policies you will be dubbed ‘anti-semitic’ and there will be repercussions. We see this at every level of the culture. So no sane person would say this stuff publicly even if he or she believed it. Unless of course one were so committed to the idea that one didn’t mind the consequences.
Clearly there are no consequences for SRK to play either the Muslim or the Pakistan card. No one’s calling him out on it. But is it proper to do this given how charged this entire discourse is? Does one have to be anti-Pakistani in a knee jerk way? Of course not. I am not anti-Pakistani at all. Whatever quarrels I have are with the ‘idea’ of the Pakistani state, the principles of its founding and so on. I am not ‘against’ ordinary Pakistanis. In fact I find such a notion quite absurd. I am not against the ordinary citizens of any country whether India has a history with those nations or not. But yes I might criticize the mindset depending on certain contexts. This is never a condemnation of regular people.
So is SRK doing anything different? Yes! Because while he doesn’t have to be anti-Pakistani he can certainly be more pro-India than he usually tends to be. One can agree that the US as an empire has unleashed a great deal of violence around the world, one can study the histories but this doesn’t mean one then goes soft on terrorist attacks. We try to understand what might have caused 9/11 not to however arrive at the conclusion that what happened was ok. Irrespective of the histories this kind of violence should disgust any decent person. It’s not ‘ok’ to kill people to protest policies.
Similarly 26/11 isn’t about the neighbor the way SRK frames it. Of course no one is suggesting ordinary Pakistanis condone this kind of violence. We also know that the state is so fractured even at the level of government that deciding how this attack was planned or abetted or carried out is hard to unravel. But that there was some kind of official sanction for it and more likely deeper involvement by at some important state actors (ISI, Army whatever) is quite indisputable. It ought not to be so hard to condemn this. One could easily be a George Bush about this — hey Islam is a religion of piece but these guys offer a perversion of the faith! This is too simplistic a formulation but one can easily indulge in it!
It’s not about condemning ordinary people who are ‘neighbors’ therefore. One can easily make these distinctions. It’s not rocket science. But when nonetheless one refuses to do so certain questions are raised. Because then it seems like the terms of the topic are being changed. If you for example ask me to condemn Al Qaeda and I respond with ‘ordinary Arabs are nice people’ what does this mean?! That I do not wish to take on the original condemnation!
6)Something else that’s very important here. I do not say all of this from within an Indian nationalist framework. I am not very given to feelings of nationalism in any easy sense of the word. I am arguing here however for some common sense. There is no need to offer ambiguous statements when one can be clear. And if it is just cynical it is deeply reprehensible.
Now I am not at all saying that SRK is ‘anti-India’. He also has a right not to subscribe to all the usual nationalistic jingoisms. This would be a subtle sort of position, perhaps not very feasible at a political level but it would be his own sincere one. However there is a question of intellectual integrity here. What if his position is so nuanced/incoherent only because he utterly refuses to be ‘condemn’ Pakistan for anything at any level or because he wants to play both sides of the divide and so on and hence has to maintain this ambivalence? Surely one doesn’t have to be an ultra-nationalist just to support a sports team? People rabidly support city teams in the West and there are fierce rivalries with a lot of bad blood but then everyone comes together at the national level. I exult in Indian victories but I am hardly given to jingoism and what not.
the question again is: why is this an ‘undecidable’ for SRK? In other words one cannot be wholly for the Indian team if Pak is going to be defeated.
7)Could it be that one has some larger devotion to the fiction of the larger subcontinent (as I do for example) or to some original dream of an undivided India (I subscribe to this as well)? yes but then one should also be as interested in Bangladesh, maybe even SL. I have been celebrating an all subcontinent final even before the India-Pak semifinal was played. I have some investment in this idea. But SRK’s statements given no sense that he has any interest in anything but the India-Pak divide. When India plays Bangladesh would he say he wants both to win? I somehow doubt it!
8)A final question. Is it ‘legit’ for one to be at least as pro-Pak as pro-India or to have a certain investment in the former for whatever reason that prevents one from going along with every element of the latter? Could one similarly also have this Hindu/Muslim faultline in one’s mind (SRK has indulged in a great deal of religious utterances over the last 5-8 years, before this there was nothing! Not that there’s anything wrong with it except that presumably his religious identity matters to him more at this point? At a personal level?)? And to the extent that one would find there to be a tension between one’s Muslim identity and one’s overall Indian one?
The answer to all these questions is YES. It would be untenable to hold some of these concerns on a public platform for the obvious reasons but that’s not an objection to the principle. Practically problematic, not as much theoretically. But then why not be more clear about it? Or not say anything? Why are there mixed signals? If he can say publicly many of the things he already does surely he can be more clear without anyone bothering him? In fact the liberal media would lionize him even more! And the cynicism question still comes in. People who have such nuanced positions do not alternately play heroes and victims, do not use the existing political parameters in cynical fashion.
To sum up this exhaustive questioning (!) I am just not persuaded that SRK is being very sincere about all of this. He’s definitely not coherent. And there is a great deal of cynicism involved at certain points. I think he engages in very irresponsible politics. Again I’d offer Bachchan here who on all Indo-Pak issues offers the greatest empathy for Pakistan and Pakistanis, even affection many times but he is very clear otherwise. He talks easily of the horror of 26/11. He too is politically correct in many ways but not incoherent on this issue. It is extremely easy to replicate his posture on all of this. When one doesn’t there must be reasons. Again I am not getting into the ‘easy’ ‘SRK loves Pak, hates India’ silliness. I just think there’s much ambivalence in his stance and he cannot act naive if many find this stance objectionable and/or offensive. He can clear things up completely anytime he likes! And here let’s get back to his Shiv Sena fracas where he tried to have his cake and eat it too. This has unfortunately been his way on most issues. And I find it irresponsible, even dangerous. Sure the media goes along with it so he faces no real heat. But it is understandable that people resent this stuff.
March 31, 2011 at 1:07 PM
CDI all over again !!!lol
March 31, 2011 at 1:29 PM
but note how SRK himself confirms the dark side of the state as represented in CDI. In other words the state ‘suspects’ him in that film on the basis of his religious identity. But the SRK character turns out to be as nationalist as anyone else. He is properly a victim there. However in his public utterances he plays to the very stereotypes that then invite the suspicion of the state. and again I am hardly on the side of the state. But one also cannot be ambiguous when the stakes are so high.
March 31, 2011 at 5:50 PM
@rajen,
Replying to your comment on randomly, I do not know what made srk say Pakistan is a good neighbor. It is a ridiculous statement. May be he said that based on his visits to Pakistan. I did not say that defend what srk said.
“One can use this defense to justify any unpatriotic actions of Muslims living in India. ”
Somewhere down the line, this originates from the base prejudice that muslims in India are unpatriotic. Words like ‘living in India’ and ‘adopted country’ etc and hints to a feeling that they don’t belong to India?
In your opinion, SRK represents or is one of those brand of muslims. This is precisely what SRK joked about in the first anniversary of 26/11 attacks in India held in Delhi. “I’ve been asked this question may be because I am a muslim” – Satyam who otherwise agreed to what SRK said, found it odd and said its an example of typical srk type politics.
March 31, 2011 at 6:02 PM
Bash,
I think you make your argument in good faith. For his statement about Pak being a good neighbour, why dont you want to accpet the most logical reason: appeasement.
For muslims living in Indai, Iguess a more appropriate term would be Muslims of Indian origin and residence. I never used the word adopted country. These Muslims arer as much Indian as Hindus. They just need to behave accordingly.
March 31, 2011 at 1:48 PM
I meant the backlash on your CDI piece….
March 31, 2011 at 4:39 PM
I presume that you have not read that outlookindia article http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?266257 .SRK IMO is genuinely confused between a soft corner for Pakistan as all his relatives from paternal side live there and pro-Indian – nationalistic sentiments. His statements are therefore incoherent. An Indian muslim with no connections with Pakistan can easily bash Pakistan. SRK too can pretend to bash Pakistan. But prefers to voice India-Pak unity sentiments once in a while.
The article above states SRK has visited Pakistan twice during childhood. Perhaps that is why he thinks they have been good neighbors. I do not agree with his statement. I do not agree with Shiv sena either. A pro-Pakistan statement does not infer at anti-Indian sentiment.
Most muslim I have come across get defensive when it comes to topic of terrorism and islam. The sentiments SRK expressed here about mullah’s islam and allah’s islam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wGOk0RvlVE) are again commonly felt.
Have you read the interview Aamir Khan gave when he visited Pak sometime in 2002? He frankly sympathized Pakistanis for the terrorist attacks they have faced and went on to share terrorism related woes of India. But in recent times Aamir Khan has been silent over these kind of issue. He has wisely maintained a political correctness due to fear of facing what SRK is facing currently.
March 31, 2011 at 4:53 PM
Re: The article above states SRK has visited Pakistan twice during childhood. Perhaps that is why he thinks they have been good neighbors
And, he has lived all his life in India and seen the results of Pak sponsored terrorism. Give me a break. What a weak defense! One can use this defense to justify any unpatriotic actions of Muslims living in India. Yeah, they are torn!
March 31, 2011 at 4:53 PM
bash :
most of his statement after 26/11 is simply unsensible
on the close to first aniversary he remarked things on nationalism in u.k and in second he attended and promoted neighbour t.v channel in u.k,s
he didn’t selected pakistani players in IPL and suddenly he had the soft corner for them in press
its he who always gave fuel to right wings
on time of release of MNIK he was in loggerhead with thackrey and now in press most of the times , he is sucking up to him
now this is called real hypocricy
March 31, 2011 at 5:03 PM
I put up that Outlook article as a post here! I know of all the other instances you’re referring to. On the rest:
1) Pro-Pakistan certainly does not mean anti-India but in certain contexts it can be so. How can one support both India and Pakistan in a cricket match? At the very least one is saying one doesn’t care who wins! How is one to read this? In no society on the planet would any sports fan of any kind accept this kind of logic. In the US if you said you don’t care who wins a series between the Yankees and the Red Sox people would consider you mad. The real sports fans of either team might beat you up! Not saying it’s right. But this is way things are with sports. It’s nationalism by another name. You can’t sit on the fence. If you have for example roots in both NY and Boston you are still expected to be on one side or the other. And this is the same country we’re talking about. Within the same cities there are astonishingly fierce rivalries between sports teams. You can’t say ‘I’m for both’. SRK should try this logic in an English football game sometime! Hillary Clinton was asked whether she’d support Chi or NY in a series and she hedged (her family is from Illinois) and the media ripped her over this. The India-Pakistan faultline is even deeper in many respects. We know the histories here — wars and terrorism and what not. Doesn’t SRK know this? The Kapoors have expressed a soft spot for Pakistan because of their roots. But they are not ambivalent about what team to support. Many families are split across the two countries. But you have to choose a side. By the way no Pakistani would ever support the Indian team for the same family reasons. The traffic only flows one way! precisely because it reflects the ‘religious’ politics of the situation. If it were only about family and roots everyone in Pakistan should have been quite pro-India or at leas ambivalent in the same way! So it’s not about being anti-India in some obvious sense but saying things that are considered questionable within these contexts.
2)The Aamir example is a great one. All decent people should sympathize with the plight of ordinary Pakistanis who are victims of terrorism or state violence or whatever. Aamir has family too over there. Why isn’t he conflicted?!
3)SRK’s views on Islam are not germane to the debate here. Because one could be very pro-Pakistani and still hold the same views. I’ve heard a couple of his speeches in this context and I liked them. But shouldn’t this have been said when 26/11 happened? This is just the point I was making. One could very easily say this isn’t about Islam or Pakistan but certain deranged elements in each that are responsible for this. How is that anti-Islamic or anti-Pakistani?! How hard is it to say this? It’s standard rhetoric for even most red meat Republicans in the US and leaders everywhere in the West. They do it hypocritically a lot of times but nonetheless they parrot this standard politically correct sentiment. Why not just repeat this?
4)Following this logic though no one should ever be criticized anywhere for anything. So Americans should not be criticized for going to Iraq because ordinary Americans are nice people. If one criticizes the Modi govt or the Shiv Sena the response could be ordinary Gujaratis and Marathis are nice people. On and on and on. If the subject is to changed this way who can really be criticized?
5)Frankly I think there are a number of smokescreens on this whole issue. There is absolutely no problem about all of this if one wants to be clear. There are any number of things one can say. or not say anything at all. With SRK I get the clear sense that he tries very hard not to criticize Pakistan at all. He is not even willing to do what George Bush did! Make that separation between the state and the people. Well 26/11 didn’t fall out of the air! Someone was responsible! Similarly someone is responsible for terrorism in Pakistan too. Don’t we have to blame whoever is, whether a state agency or state actors or whatever. When Sikhs were massacred in Delhi it’s quite clear to me that certain Congress politicians instigated this pogrom. Doesn’t one have to identify these things? And again no one is forced to voice an opinion or anything but if you have to either out of choice or because you’ve been asked isn’t it fair to expect a proper response that does not fudge the issues?
And again I am not looking for him or anyone else to bash Pakistan. I am just expecting some more honesty and integrity than he’s shown.
March 31, 2011 at 7:11 PM
@iffrononfire …
“second he attended and promoted neighbour t.v channel in u.k,s”
He did not attend the show. The show was indefinitely postponed. Attending a show for Pakistan flood relief organised by UK- Asians in London and hosted by BBC anchors is somehow not as anti-Indian as shiv sena made it sound. Incidentally, Aamir had travelled to Pakistan and did shows in 2002 times.
“he didn’t selected pakistani players in IPL and suddenly he had the soft corner for them in press”
This is rather funny. Reverse the two parts of it. He did not shy away from pro-Pakistan cricketer statement. He had not picked up Pak players. Why should he risk speaking about Pak players if he didn’t have the guts to pick them up? The answer is simple. His team didn’t need the Pak players listed. Simple. They planned to bid on a particular bowler and bought him. SRK has never been scared of hosting shows with Pak cricket players, why would he scared of picking a Pak player in his team. Even if he was being contradictory by actions, he does not serve in a beneficiary sense. The answers has to be that he didn’t want the Pak players. He already answered this question, and you ignored it.
“on time of release of MNIK he was in loggerhead with thackrey and now in press most of the times , he is sucking up to him”
He didn’t dare to be loggerheads with Thackery even during the MNIK controversy. He didn’t apologize, yes. But in the same Barkha interview, he said Thackerey’s have always been friendly to him. He will talk to them etc …( Satyam ridiculed this as something cowardly. ). He said he would speak with Bal Thackerey inorder to explain himself but not apologize as he believed he didn’t do anything wrong. And he had not apologized till day. Obvious by the fact that Bal Thackerey still labels him ‘traitor’. At the same time, he does not want to make an enemy out of the SS gang. Hence the sucking in neutral topics.
I am defending SRK in this only because the accusations are unfair.
March 31, 2011 at 1:38 PM
It was constructive criticism all right but you arguments are based on a certain impression you’ve got of him by pretending to watch his antics a little too closely. Understandable, because SRK’s remarks, even if otherwise not as controversial, become media quotations to be discussed in every movie forum possible.
I am not sure what Aamir and the Bachchans usually say about such stuff as terrorism and violence,but if you say SRK doesn’t support India whole heartedly,Im not sure what you find wrong with even his ‘What happened was unfortunate’ remarks.
Further your criticism doesnt hold true in many instances. Example, I dont believe at all that SRK has played victim being a muslim. He has always maintained that he doesn’t believe that muslims have been ill treated in the country or they’ve been harassed as you put it. (Kindly watch the Karan Thapar interview if you find it). Furthermore, Fanaa the film did benefit hugely because of the Gujarat controversy. Again, you could have very well put up an argument on why Aamir chose to speak on Modi and the Narmada Andolan only at the time of the film’s release but is absent from supporting anyone when he’s busy shooting.. but you won’t.. because half of your pieces are aimed at why SRK’s politics is dangerous and disturbing.
I have been experiencing this mentality post the India-Pak match that people would amuse themselves to the jingoistic celebrations of Indians iin every street, calling ‘Pakistan murdabad’ and its called patriotism.. How many of us Indians came out in streets to protest against the CWG scam? How many protest against the state of the nation? How many show unity like the Egyptians for instance? To be honest, its pathetic tosee all our attention to cricket.. But all that is okay according to folks like rajen and you know who..
Plus, its rather strange that you find it understandable that people call him names ranging from homsexual to one having an extra hole for Karan to one having a shrivelled d*ick…
and if SRK decides to stay away from openly ridiculing Pakistan if he wishes to, you consider it worth to come up with a 1500 word article on why its so pathetic on his part??
March 31, 2011 at 2:40 PM
I think I’ve addressed all of this in great detail in the piece. Not sure what I could add to it!
I’d just make this point. How does it help Fanaa to have the film not released in Gujarat? Ahmedabad is one of the top 5 centers for Hindi films. Or is the game for the controversy to maximize the film’s revenue by losing Gujarat altogether? Shouldn’t one ‘think’ a little bit before one reacts in a knee jerk fashion?
As for the rest you’re trying to change the topic. The whole stuff about people coming out in the streets and what not. That’s not a point I made at all! Please try and restrict your criticism to what I have actually said, it will entail reading the 1500 words very carefully I’m afraid!
As for the sexual innuendo here again I don’t believe I made any reference to this. This too is trying to change the topic. Let’s accept for the moment there shouldn’t be any sexual innuendo. WHat about the rest?
Finally again the same mutually exclusive logic is exhibited here:
1)SRK didn’t say/do anything out of the ordinary
2)Even if he did look at the others
3)Why does anyone make sexual remarks about him?
Note how the three bits of criticism aren’t really connected at all!
As someone who’s taken all kinds of stands and very tough ones on Indian matters, Indian political parties and so on, as someone who’s done the same criticizing the US, as someone who’s criticized Bachchan quite a bit on his very blog and including for some of his political decisions I’m afraid I’m not very susceptible to the caricature you’re trying to paint here.
March 31, 2011 at 2:51 PM
Im afraid I am not as articulate as I want to. My concern was your ignorance of someone’s low-level remarks when you were always the one who ensured decency on his forum.
Regarding Fanaa, it might have lost in Gujrat but it did more than compensate for it in almost every other part of the country. now that MNIK was being compared to it, it did lose a big share by the film not being released in the No.1 centre for Hindi films.
March 31, 2011 at 3:04 PM
MNIK released in Bombay, there were minor issues. Nothing significant. On Fanaa the film did very well everywhere from the word go and was always looking to do very well. Not sure why it needed this. On the other hand MNIK wasn’t exciting anyone. Even with the controversy there was nothing special about the collections. Given that everything else Aamir has done in the last ten years has worked it’s a bit odd to suggest he suddenly dreamed up a controversy for this film when Yashraj were actually not happy at all he did this and wanted him to apologize (clearly they didn’t think they were making up for Gujarat anywhere).
By the way you are perfectly articulate. But the idea that there’s nothing to SRK’s remarks and actions isn’t something I agree with. Secondly whatever the low level remarks of someone might be, however objectionable the sexual innuendo might be what does that have to do with the central argument here. Similarly what does this have to do with all Indian Muslims?
A million times here and on NG I’ve attacked the right in India, I’ve tussled with people who were sympathetic to the right. Doesn’t mean I was attacking Hindus as a group!
And I think I have been extremely careful not to be misconstrued.
March 31, 2011 at 3:12 PM
Okay, I got you there Satyam. I did go through your SRK piece again and it makes sense for me now.
Thanks for your comments and remarks.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
March 31, 2011 at 3:16 PM
No offense caused at all..
March 31, 2011 at 4:39 PM
and to add to everything I’ve already said in more general terms:
1) I never think in terms of ‘groups’ — religious, ethnic, racial, national etc.
2) Whatever position I take is ‘about’ a certain specific set of circumstances, a specific politics. But however critical I might be of something in this sense I don’t extrapolate from this to entire groups. For example I abhor the Shiv Sena and all such fascist outfits. However every Marathi speaker who’s a member of the Sena is not automatically suspect to my mind. The Sena has had a whole social welfare and labor union dimension to it. Some are adherents only for this reason. They’re not in it for the anti-Muslim, anti-UP, anti-Tamilian stuff or what have you.
3) But we also live in the real world where one has to be more cautious with respect to certain debates than others even if one is sincerely guided. It’s just the way it is. And if one believes strongly about something there are ways to better express yourself and be more effective. When 9/11 happens the next day is not the best time to open up a debate on US policy in the Mideast! Similarly whether one likes nation-states or not (and I’m not a fan!) there are certain sensitivities to every such political arrangement. If I were a public figure I wouldn’t be saying many of the things I say on the blog. Not necessarily because I’d be afraid of something but I wouldn’t want to be misunderstood. So I’d try hard to be very clear or not speak at all. This is assuming total sincerity. If one says or does things for cynical reasons everything becomes that much more complicated. The thing with events like 9/11 or 26/11 is that it should be fairly easy to condemn them irrespective of one’s politics. I find these positions non-negotiable. I am willing to discuss history, responsibility, ethics vis-a-vis the US or the Arab states or whatever but blowing up buildings with innocents in them is for me a non-negotiable position. Now one can enlarge the discussion and wonder why ‘states’ are authorized to do it in instances. One can certainly critique this (I think the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan is also unjustifiable and ‘non-negotiable’ on my terms) but this still cannot justify the terrible violence of blowing up people. The same goes for 26/11. There shouldn’t be an ambiguous or half-baked response to such an event. I’ve said similarly that targeting Sikhs in Delhi in ’84 or Muslims in Bombay or Gujarat or murdering Hindus in Jammu, so on and so forth, all are non-negotiable positions. Let’s examine and understand in every case but let’s never lesson the magnitude of the violence. Let’s not make it acceptable somehow.
4)SRK is not a fool. Note how he is otherwise called a master of media and so on but suddenly in these instances he’s incoherent or dumb and doesn’t know what to say. I think he’s very aware of what he’s saying. If it were just about offending people with such statements I wouldn’t care as much. But among other things he precisely damages his co-religionists by saying such things. The logic is simple — if SRK cannot support India openly in every given cricket situation, if he’s ‘unsure’ about who to support maybe there is something to the idea that Muslims in India are always ‘secret’ Pakistanis. This is the way the shenanigan goes. What does it look like when of all people SRK succumbs to it (whatever the reason)? So what he says isn’t restricted to him, the stakes get magnified. Because again these are real political contexts. These things happen and one has to be careful. History leaves its traces.
5) Lastly I should say that when I often seem harsh on SRK it is for this sort of reason. I used to enjoy watching him for most of the 90s, not much anymore but I still don’t mind him on screen very much. prefer him to most others. But his politics whether on the issues we’ve been discussing or elsewhere within the industry repels me deeply. Because in every context he does a good cop-bad cop routine. In every single context. The same tactics are used everywhere. The media goes along with it, the fans think everyone criticizing him is a ‘hater’. Bachchan just showed up with Modi on a stage and I devoted endless responses to it on his blog. Obviously I know his politics is very different but I felt he shouldn’t have done this. So I take politics seriously. And SRK in recent times has just said or done these things far too many times. And it’s with everything. For example he kept saying he wanted Ganguly last year after everything had already happened. Well who stopped him from signing him on?! and the other thing is I don’t like the ‘message’ of his trademark Yashraj/Johar films. But I don’t like these even when other actors do them! Again I’ve talked about Bachchan’s own participation in some of these films tons of times on his blog.
One has a right to disagree with all my positions but it’s not as if I’m targeting SRK here for no reason.
March 31, 2011 at 3:29 PM
Re.-A million times here and on NG I’ve attacked the right in India, I’ve tussled with people who were sympathetic to the right. Doesn’t mean I was attacking Hindus as a group
Ya- tell me about it !! LOL!!
March 31, 2011 at 3:33 PM
You’re a friend even if a misguided one..!
March 31, 2011 at 7:36 PM
bash : its not about srk or any thing but again its the course of action and first know about them
yes there was a flood and government of india offered aids but our neighbours refused at many instant intially citing aids from a neighbouring country
show was cancealled because indians protested it in very big as its close to second aniversary of 26/11
many political parties threatened to boycott even his movies
as for IPL whole world knows what happened …. he says pak players are wonderful and needs to be picked but never picked them and immediately got the response
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-01-29/india/28137093_1_pak-players-pakistani-players-kolkata-knight-riders
March 31, 2011 at 2:22 PM
There could be other reasons but not able to get ticket when you know Rajeev Shukla (VP BCCI) [apart from Gandhis] is not digestable.
March 31, 2011 at 3:30 PM
It is called hypocrisy. This hypocrisy is made out to be intelligence and smartness by the fawning media. Media must eaqually share the blame for being sickeningly sycophantic when it comes to SRK and his incoherent statements.
March 31, 2011 at 6:25 PM
I saw all of their interviews (aamir, salman, shahrukh) post 26/11….they all (the khans) are equally ambiguous…they all say the same thing (islam doesn’t teach violence and terrorism doesn’t have religion…yada..yada) but Aamir’s interview was most offensive (to me) where he states “we all can improve”.
March 31, 2011 at 7:41 PM
it’s not just about ambiguous statement though but a whole series of statements and gestures. Aamir is ‘Mr India’ otherwise! If it were just one statement from SRK we wouldn’t be having this debate. the same goes for Salman.
March 31, 2011 at 2:08 PM
I think the reactions kind of serve to prove the case and legitimise whatever Satyam and myself say. It is easy to misinterpret or misconstrue or even twist the opinions and make them religious or communal. Yes, my rant is directed against a certain mentality exhibited by a faction of certain religion. I havent painted the entire community/country/religion with the same brush.
And, I am sure non-SRK fans of Muslim faith might also be offended by my assertion as it is easy to view my post as Muslim bashing even tho it is not.
I do expect Muslims in India to root for India and not exhibit any ambivalence when it comes to India- Pakistan issues. It is not an unfair expectation. And, is not communal or religious. I can understand ( but not condone ) a certain ideological view held by losers like Arundhati Roy that sides with the other side.
March 31, 2011 at 2:24 PM
And, I do expect that every Indian should stand up to condemn Pakistan led/fed/sponsored/inspired terrorist attacks when asked.
Tell telling a victim of terrorist attacks that Pakistan is a good neighbour. SRK fans/supporters are doing exactly what SRK is accused of – playing victim.
March 31, 2011 at 2:56 PM
Bravo Rajen!!..I fully agree with your views on this side of SRK.
March 31, 2011 at 2:40 PM
I watched the match with 3 of my muslim friends at their house.
God knows how we were all cheering for India right till the final over.
Judging SRK’s behaviour (??) to determine mentality of muslims in India is a bit too much.
People may say they didnt mean it that way but how one thinks does get reflected in one’s arguments and posts.
End of discussion.
March 31, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Don’t believe anyone commented on all Indian Muslims. C’mon! And it’s not just about what SRK did yesterday or not. It’s about a whole set of signals he gives on a number of issues that suggest ambivalence. The problem is that if you question him on this the misguided think all Indian Muslims are being questioned. Much as if I attack Hindutva it doesn’t mean I’m questioning all Hindus!
March 31, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Tony,
You were cheering for India? And, you claim the match was fixed and Pakistan should have won and saying India will get a thrashing from SL!
Some fan of Indian team you are!
March 31, 2011 at 2:55 PM
Lol.. I know it would sound absurd!
Its hard to argue such things with a bunch of friends when everyone’s glued to the screen, desperate for an Indian win.
March 31, 2011 at 4:01 PM
“How many of us Indians came out in streets to protest against the CWG scam? How many protest against the state of the nation? How many show unity like the Egyptians for instance? To be honest, its pathetic tosee all our attention to cricket.. But all that is okay according to folks like rajen and you know who..”
baseless logic without any thought and facts again
very recently anti corruption rally in delhi(in ramleela) attracted close to 90,000 people … may be you are unaware of thigs it doesn’t mean they don’t exists
2-g scam was first exposed through people and because of people’s litigation filed supreme court is daily drilling government
we all know how much media in india anyways sucks up to any ruling class but because of people’s participation and efforts of independent RTI activists these things are exposed time and again and its because of democracy
further you talked about egypt and how indians can not do that and all and again i have to say half baked knowledge is extremly dengerous
when democracy in india was challenged and media was supressed it was a guy called J.P who created the biggest revolution leading to even downfall of indira for a short while
when there was mandal then it was students who came out in huge numbers and even put themselves on fire( which was wrong imo)
examples are many if i go on
March 31, 2011 at 4:07 PM
“I have been experiencing this mentality post the India-Pak match that people would amuse themselves to the jingoistic celebrations of Indians iin every street, calling ‘Pakistan murdabad’ and its called patriotism.”
haven’t seen such hysteria and tell you that i am in capital of india
people are celebrating indian victory and even praised pak’s play
and to tell you the biggest celebration is on punjab and in north and once upon a time it was the place which infact was experiencing trouble to in 80′s
why now people are openly expressing themselves simply because we moved on and acted maturely instead of being jingoistic
March 31, 2011 at 4:12 PM
“why dont you take potshots at Salman,Rahman et al? Are you completely in accordance with Tibbets ‘Cricket Test’ theory or you are just using the aforesaid incident in a most opportunistic manner for your comfort and showing favouritism selecting people whom you want to defame.”
have refrained away from commention on srk things but i have to
other are not issuing statement through their paid pr’s
its ok if anyone don’t attend any matches or all … but why to come up absurd logic
dude rajeev shukla runs the show here who has even helped srk to have a IPL team and suddenly people are saying baseless logic of not having tickets and all
these things are certainly laughable
March 31, 2011 at 4:23 PM
How great is Tendulkar?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bendirs/2011/03/there_is_i_will_admit.html
March 31, 2011 at 5:32 PM
great piece here.. thanks for posting..
March 31, 2011 at 4:33 PM
http://www.e24bollywood.com/BollywoodReporter.aspx?id=7059
March 31, 2011 at 4:46 PM
cmon guys, cool it now. Lets bring sanity back…..lol
Chill!
SL president invited for wc final
Nehra injured
Murali, MAtthews injured
Think india needs a batting pitch to maximise the home advantage since either a spinning or fast pitch may backfire..
Hope to see the “slinger, chucker” clubbed around for hits…
March 31, 2011 at 4:59 PM
And, again dont want to be hard on Indian muslims as a whole. They probably get the feeling ( and somewhat justifiably) that they have to prove their Indianness and their patriotism more than Hindu. It shouldnt be that way. One just hopes for same loyalty and love and pride in their country as one hopes from a non-Muslim. And, I do accept that htier are culutural/familial ties that makes it harder for them. But, lok at how Muhajirs are treated in Pakistan. Whenn they apply for jobs, they had to state where their parents were born and discriminated on those grounds and now that a generation has passed, they are being asked where their grandparents were born! India and the Indians, on the whole are a far more practical,realistic,tolerant and accepting.But,some feel obliged to test the limits.
March 31, 2011 at 5:20 PM
I’ve actually had some of those arguments with Muhajirs with whom I knew I could talk frankly. Ayub Khan once notoriously said in the 50s in some context that if the Muhajirs were not happy with something he was doing they had the Arabian Sea behind them! You’re quite right on the rest too. The identification of Muhajirs in Pakistan is a very thorough one. Their status has always been questionable within the state. They too have faced brutal military action at points. So on and so forth. It is a common refrain among Muhajirs that Pakistan is really for the Punjabis. By the way the flip side of this was that when Bangladesh was still E Pakistan a lot of Bengalis were referred to as Hindus. They could then be massacred with impunity and this is more or less what happened in the 1971 war.
And again agreed with your point on Indian Muslims. And yes every opinion in this context becomes pro or anti India/Pak. It’s hard to be blunt in these contexts because people naturally carry a lot of baggage. Which does not excuse the excesses of the Indian state and which also have been highlighted in other contexts. In truth all nation-states have their points of excess. The US interned Japanese in camps during WWII, during the 50s with the whole Red-baiting stuff entire careers were destroyed. It was a scary time in many ways. But on balance one just prefers the US to many other countries (though with the caveat that I would not have wanted to live in the US in say 1920!). Contrary to this whole myth of integration and immigration the fact is that every new wave of the latter was confronted with violence. But yes looking at contemporary India and Pakistan I have no doubt that any reasonably objective opinion would prefer the former to the latter. Being attached to one’s country however is is a different matter. Having bonds of affection for reasons of family and so on is also not unnatural. Again all of this should not be read as an ‘anti-Pakistan’ argument. I just don’t like the policies of the state as these have historically been in very many ways.
March 31, 2011 at 5:02 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/cricket-world-cup-2011/news/Fitting-Finale-Sachin-Tendulkar-vs-Muttiah-Muralitharan/articleshow/7839040.cms
March 31, 2011 at 5:42 PM
@satyam
In maharashtra saying ‘bombay’ ,doing anything remotely which relates to/with Pakistan not being Satans land ,saying anything against(the general ‘Sivaji Maharaj ki jai’ idea of) Sivaji,and many other things generates a lot of flak from the usual suspects. So one can justify SRK, who was (wrongly) lambasted for the post 26\11 comments which he made in Pakistan and add to it the facts that he was a Moslem(Big Deal for Sena) and he said something against the common notion of the hyper-jingoist Indian media , being reluctant in uttering ‘bombay’ knowing that it will generate a lot of negative publicity and that lot will be a lot greater than just a Hindu saying it when already he’s a villain in Sena’s eye .Also it was a just answer for a dumb question and an astute comment for in-general centre-right(ie Hindu nationilistic right) polity/judiciary/media that “Hey, in one hand you call yourself soviet-socialist-secular-democratic-republic and on the other hand you tolerate and breed these morons!”.
SRK clearly has an ambivalent position regarding Ind-Pak issues as brilliantly described by you but one senses that the stand he takes is not just for the sake of publicity but he genuinely feels and has sensitivity towards what he is saying.On sensitivity about issues ,everyone has some issues he feels for and which matters to him a lot.First issue is off-course a hungry stomach. Sadly Ind-Pak are 2 of the most malnourished countries in the world so for the majority of the people, the big question is that where will the next meal come from.Rest contains of people who can afford to see cricket matches and all.
Some of these people were watching Ind-Aus match in a big screen in Lucknow and guess for which personality the biggest cheers from crowd came from. Narendra Modi in a saffron kurta. Can someone imagine the horror ,the shiver in the spine of the Moslems sitting in that crowd who were cheering for each run India scored. More noise than Yuvraj hitting a crucial boundary for that human being in a saffron kurta! A statement in itself and all of these were ordinary people ,Satyam.May
be ,just may be SRK being from a middle-class background knows these realities a lot more than Saif Ali Khan.Rivalry of Ind-Pak cant be compared to say Arsenal-Spurs.There is a whole lot of history(real horrifying history) to Ind-Pak but if you want to take an example take it of the ElClassico and all the Spanish Civil War and General Franco behind it and you will realize the reactions when Spanish football team (with majority of barca players) loses under a coach with a Madrid background.
Also you have raised the point, rather subtely, that Islam is inherently intolerent and ultimately leads to terrorism (since you gave 2 specific examples of Islamic terrorism), Would you like to extrapolate it to the point that all religions ultimately leads to a point of intolerance and hence in a certain sense leads to terrorism or your views are related to Islam and Islamic societiesin particular?If yes then I take a strong exception to this statement and also (If I may) give you a sincere advice to you to dont throw stones at others untill..Take the example of stone-pelting and compare it to sati\dowry-death\female infanticide(last 2 still prevalent). Now Im not trying to justify stone-pelting for adultary but in this case atleast according to men the given women has committed a crime while in Indian society women are not even allowed to take the first breath. Values on a society shouldnt be imposed from outside , change will automatically come when enough people will say enough. For eg middle-east for now.
Regarding 26\11 and 9\11 no saying can be more truer than that of all the noise is made when rich have trouble. Switch back to 40s what was the biggest slaughter .Holocaust .More people died in Ind-Pak division but no one in the west noticed this fact then.It is in this light that the current terrorist attack
on NY and Mumbai will be taken notice of when the people who are oppressed currently will gain the financial might.No reason can justify killing of a single innocent
person but the logic applies to both the sides and according to me the bigger devil is he who commits more crimes and kill more people and so on.
Ahh.. these discussion can be exhausting but may be its just the exuberance of youth from my side.
Regarding cricket match, dont you think it was naive from Indian media to play such hyper-nationalistic tones. And also whats the definition of MOTM according
to you? According to me Wahab Riaz should have been MOTM alone on cricketing terms leave aside the good will spirit. If Sachins 85 would have been lets say only with
2 dropped catches(;-)) then it would have been another thing. Also I was wondering why all the commentators were continuing calling the pitch good for batting and a belter even when they were seeing Sachin struggle(irony in itself but true on that day.).
@ rajen
I also want every Indian and every person in this world to be something like ‘Imagine’(by John Lenon).But you will agree with me that on issues like this
if you take sides then it is equivalent to shoeing hypocricy. So I assume ,you being a well learned english speaking man ,that the meaning of terrorism for you is as its in dictionary and you will keep on condemning it ,be it Islamic and Saffron ,be it 26\11 or be it Indian forces killing more than 50 unarmed guys younger than you.
I assume that you will recognize the reasons why Irom Sharmila is in 10 years long Satyagraha, I assume you will condemn every innocent being killed. Is it such a hard thing?I hope and,not.
March 31, 2011 at 5:58 PM
why cheering for narendra modi is that a big deal well he has the done the massive development and has beeen elected by people of gujrat twice
surelyl sonia and rahul where cheered in a big way by same crowd watching on silver screen in the land of sikhs ( some still have not forgot what happened to them in 84)
the akali (considered terrorist then) and communal bjp considered by some helped in a big way in defusing tension and are running the government now today
indian state today is also tolerating madani’s , bukhari’s , which time and again come up with more communal statements also choppping of hands in kerala of a professor etc which again was simply disgusting
why don’t we see the same response from some
talking about malnutrition etc will not serve the purpose
still we are immproving on many counts
March 31, 2011 at 6:35 PM
Pega,
Am not able to follow a lot of what you said, but your feelings come thru.
And, believe it or not,I do sympathise.
I could easily say -stop portraying Indian Muslims as victims. They have the same rights as Hindus and then some!. But, I wont as the truth is not that simple. I sympathise with and appreciate that it can be tough being a Muslim in India. They dont need to make it harder on themselves by identifying with Pakistan as they should know Pakistan cares two hoots about their lot. I guess for some Modi will forever be a symbol of post-Godhra atrocities but for most, he is a symbol of a resurgent and a thriving Gujarat. I have met Muslims from other states who would love to have Modi as their CM. Might be hard to believe but they are tired of being used as vote banks.
March 31, 2011 at 9:13 PM
@Rajen: “that it can be tough being a Muslim in India..”
Sweetheart, India is THE BEST place for muslims….which other country would you prefer? Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, UAE, afganistan…India is best for muslims in general and muslim girl in particular!
March 31, 2011 at 6:04 PM
not only bombay :
even madras is chennai now
bengalore is bengaluroo
orissa is odisha etc
so its more to regional chauvinism than any ideology
a guy who is coming from a middle class family understand more the worth of nationalism than any elite
indian army don’t recruits from elites but from middle class through hardcore competition
its the middle class only who slogs in maintaining economy and indian pride and pride and nationalism is utmost for them always
March 31, 2011 at 6:22 PM
not only shivaji in mumbai try to say some something about :
tagore in kolkata
sardar/mahatma in gujrat
periyar in chennai
jp/rajendra prasad in bihar etc
you will get the same resonse from some
states have their own linguistic history and heroes and whats wrong in respecting them
there is also saying when you are in rome behave like romans and respect is not given it has to be earned
“take the example of stone-pelting and compare it to sati\dowry-death\female infanticide(last 2 still prevalent). Now Im not trying to justify stone-pelting for adultary but in this case atleast according to men the given women has committed a crime while in Indian society women are not even allowed to take the first breath. Values on a society shouldnt be imposed from outside , change will automatically come when enough people will say enough. For eg middle-east for now.”
may be you can justify a stone pelting and all with absurd logic but tell you both dowry and female infanticide are crimes as per indian law for your information
like in every society some people is doing crime the answer is punishment which is what law does
answer is not absurd logic but awareness about law and one’s right
March 31, 2011 at 7:29 PM
@ Iron of Fire
I think bengaluru or chennai compared to mumbai for the respective nationalists is an infinitisemaly small matter.
You also are forgetting that except Sivaji everyone is related to modern history of India and it does make a difference.
You really believe that Indian Army constitutes mainly the middle class of India. I think you are confusing between the commissioned and non-commissioned posts aka officers and jawans.
I clearly stated that Im not justifying stone pelting of women but according to their laws given women has committed the given crime. In india there are worse traditions , yeah you have laws against them ,but the main problem is that the worse things are traditions.You shouldnt impose your laws and your rights on anyone atleast not unless there are equally bad things happening in your society.
March 31, 2011 at 7:39 PM
@Satyam, there are several points I can agree and disagree with. What I do agree is that SRK has some soft corner for Pakistan due to which he does not attack Pakistan directly. Randomly picking up …
A basic question, how did you know SRK did not support India during a India Vs Pakistan cricket match? Because he did not choose to attend the match? Or just know it based on statements made earlier? Because, the statements he made earlier does not conclude to not supporting India during an India and Pakistan match.
March 31, 2011 at 8:09 PM
I’ve never said he does not support India in matches. he does many times. Yesterday too he came out of his house. But there is often an ambivalence he displays when Pakistan is also part of the context. Obviously there’s no problem if they’re playing SL! Again he wasn’t at the match yesterday which could not mean anything in all fairness. But it could also be one more sign in this larger narrative. It’s not something one can prove except that it fits in with the overall narrative, the other points of which are provable by way of his statements. Again Salman wasn’t at the match. It means nothing. He might not be interested in cricket or he might not be bothered to attend. Either way it doesn’t matter because he has no such statements otherwise.
The thing is I am not putting up some sort of test here for Indian Muslims. I am ONLY going by what SRK has said. And again go back to the India Today conclave. Two statements here about ‘Muslimness’. One in the ‘Mumbai’ context. But the other one was that obscene response which wasn’t just notable for the obscenuty but also the fact that he made a plain reference to circumcision. So again even the obscenity is laced with a religious reference. He seems to have it on the mind! Actually I also do not think his ambivalence is cynical (though his using the Muslim card at times seems cynical), it is authentic. The problem isn’t that his religion seems to matter to him more these days. That is none of my business quite frankly nor can anyone possibly object to this. Nor do I have an issue if he feels affinity for Pakistan. I have NOT been objecting to these two things.
What I am protesting against is a certain ambivalence SRK keeps expressing on India v Pak issues which are minimally unwise at a pragmatic level (he doesn’t face a problem but many other minorities do who are often tarred with the same brush) but also dishonest in their incoherence. Because I don’t believe he’s confused or doesn’t know how to talk. And the further issue here is that he chooses a certain sort of nuance that then prevents him from being ‘simply’ Indian. My position is that this is a problematic move in the fraught context of Indo-Pak politics even if the feeling is sincere. And if it isn’t sincere it’s worse. Either way what could possibly be exceptionable about simply saying it like it is on an issue like 26/11. If I asked Arab Americans from Egypt their opinion on 9/11 I would expect a blanket condemnation of the act. We could then discuss other stuff. But surely it’s not that hard to agree on some of these basic things? The answer to this cannot be Egyptians are nice people. Most of the players on the Pak team seemed quite nice to me. I saw Afridi very warmly congratulate the Indians later. But that’s not the issue here. We cannot mix the public with the personal. When two national teams play everything happens at a public level. There is no room for the personal here. For example I am always deeply disappointed if Sachin does not have a good game but I don’t say India might as well lose if he can’t score a big one. I want him to win a WC but if he were not playing I wouldn’t be indifferent to it. if Pakistan were playing Aus in a final I might well have wanted Pak to win. In fact I prefer a subcontinental winner to be quite honest. I was quite pleased to see for example SL win in ’96 beating Aus. Now there are many who’d not want Pak to win in any circumstance. I’m not of that school. But wherever one falls on this issue one still backs one’s own team over others.
It’s not that I am elevating the cricket issue over all others or for that matter even the 26/11 issue. These are merely symptoms of a much larger narrative. Even those who were actually ambivalent on these subjects would find it easier to be publicly with India because of how it would look otherwise. The fact that SRK is often not willing to even make this minimal gesture stands out. Aamir was there cheering for the team yesterday, he too was quite tense when India lost quick wickets and so on. I am reasonably sure he’s not anti-Pak. Which is the whole point. You don’t have to engage in anti-Pak talk or even be anti-Pak secretly to find some of SRK’s behavior objectionable.
I am even willing to concede that one might have a very complicated world-view about these things, that one might not be nationalistic in the usual sense even if this is expected of one. So on and so forth. But all of this would be ok if the same complicated view were held about Pakistan also. You cannot keep opposing those who are ‘nice neighbors’ with those who don’t let Muslims call Mumbai Bombay! Which is what it seems like if you follow the whole thread. His ‘because I am a Muslim’ refrain is one I’ve heard in more than one context. It annoys me because there are very many Muslims facing real problems of discrimination and police harassment and so on because of religious identity but he’s not one of them. So it’s wrong to play that card. It then obscures the real issue and the real problem. Secondly the whole ‘nice neighbor’ thing carries the implicit burden that India needs to be ‘nice’ to the ‘nice neighbor’. A lot of this is not actually said but the dog whistles as I suggested earlier can plainly be ‘heard’.
I take great pains to keep saying that I am very critical of India on very many issues and I’ve had very long arguments with people about this both on NG and here. Because I am not stupidly anti-Pak or anything. It’s just about certain attitudes and certain policies and so on. I don’t generalize things. SRK for example does not even speak for Muslim actors of his age group in Bombay (Aamir, Salman). How could he speak for any other Indian Muslim? Similarly terrorists from Pakistan don’t speak for the whole Pakistani nation.
Lastly about the cricket he very clearly said once about an India-Pakistan match that he wanted ‘both’ to win greatly surprising the Indian team. Surely this is not an opinion one holds one day and not the next?!
Despite everything I was on his side when the Sena attacked him and despite being a bit suspicious of some of his statements. But eventually he really played it cynically with the media and he lost my sympathy. This doesn’t mean I thought it was ok for the Sena to go after him. I’d never support those goons on anything!
By the way it’s not just about ambivalence. Bachchan is very politically correct when he speaks about Pakistan. I personally don’t think he has any bias as such against the country. But he always expresses the greatest horror about 9/11, has referred to Kasab a number of times, used strong language. Similarly he was very gracious about the match yesterday but he was also thrilled India won. You can do both. SRK too could be politically correct or not really diss India without taking things quite so far.
March 31, 2011 at 8:46 PM
“SRK for example does not even speak for Muslim actors of his age group in Bombay (Aamir, Salman).”
Thats one thing I disagree. SRK has been supportive of muslim actors. Aamir, Salman haven’t been. Noticed a faint touch of prejudice in SRK’s earlier statements before the supposed fight with Salman, where in he said something about being close to Salman family. SRK can be a muslim to muslims, unlike very urbanized neutral muslims. Takes pride in calling himself Pathan etc …
“Lastly about the cricket he very clearly said once about an India-Pakistan match that he wanted ‘both’ to win greatly surprising the Indian team.”
This I’ve not heard of.
March 31, 2011 at 8:50 PM
Re: This I’ve not heard of.
But is true. And, reportedly the Indian team was stunned and bewildered. It was at some dinner held to felicitate India-Pakistan teams.
March 31, 2011 at 9:10 PM
What I meant there was I don’t generalize. So SRK just stands for SRK and not others. Didn’t mean he doesn’t support others.
March 31, 2011 at 7:43 PM
“You also are forgetting that except Sivaji everyone is related to modern history of India and it does make a difference.”
what is your problem with shivaji
isn’t tipu sultan( a muslim) is associated with maysore
isn’t maharana pratap and rani of jhanshi are synounymous with their respective states
as i said a communal mind will see everything as communal
i never said indian army is associated only with middle class but a major part of it is
why one shoudn’t impose any law
answer is UNIFORM CIVIL CODE (same law for everyone)which is synonymous with democratic secular society but question is again who is opposing them
you know it well
March 31, 2011 at 8:03 PM
@ iron of fire
Dont get personal.
I thought the major part of Indian army was jawans.Its not that difficult to comprehend ,you see,even in LOC for every saif,devgan et al there were 50 soldiers to follow their orders, will you put them also in Middle Class?
I dont have anything against SivaJi.He was a great leader. I have a problem with the ideology that any one who refuses to say ‘Sinaji maharaj ki jai’ should immideately be assumed as someone unpatriotic.
Your answer ie UNIFORM CIVIL CODE(in caps) but there is a little problem when there is a ‘bhumi pujan’ (a hindu ceremony) while laying down the first brick of a court and the problem aggrevates when the court dismisses the PIL saying that the bhumi-pujan is not necessarily a Hindu religious ceremony. It would be shocking for you to hear that a court of India has indeed behaved in such an unscientific and unsecular manner.
Now you tell me is that secular? Also there is an article25 in constitution which grants religious freedom to every citizen of India which is in a sense contradictory(according to some and not necessarily the communal ones) to the idea of uniform civil code.
March 31, 2011 at 8:10 PM
idelogies are always hijacked and it always how you interpret them and that thing is again debatable
anyway people where forced to do the same mumbai would have never been the city of migrant that it is now
don’t misinterpret the thing there was a PIL filed it against first and court rightly rejected as it is harmless and wastes judiciary
anyway if one is not willing to go by law then with whom it will go
March 31, 2011 at 8:19 PM
Firstly the court decided to have a bhumi-puja. Them some one from civil societies(not a moslem) filed a PIL against it.and then the court rejected it on the ground that bhumi-puja is not necessarily a Hindu ceremony and hence implying that this ceremony can take place from now on before laying the first brick of any building made by the state.
Can you imagine what message will it give to minorities when the religious ceremonies of majority are imposed on them.
March 31, 2011 at 9:21 PM
yhea…like imposing vande matram…
April 1, 2011 at 6:03 AM
“Secular” word was entered in constitution much latter in 70s( if I m correct) It was not earlier.
About Bhumi Puja :
a) Court did not said that any one who make building should do Bhumi Puja. So how imposing religious ceremony on minority happens here???
b) We minority do not believe in Bhumi Puja, so state should do what minority do and not what majority do.
c) Its minorities which are playing full fledged religious politics. See what Catholic church is doing in Kerala elections.
March 31, 2011 at 8:20 PM
“so there is an article25 in constitution which grants religious freedom to every citizen of India which is in a sense contradictory(according to some and not necessarily the communal ones) to the idea of uniform civil code.”
Ironically, Article 44 of the Constitution says, “The State shall endeavour to secure for the citizens a uniform civil code throughout the territory of India.
March 31, 2011 at 8:24 PM
“AJESH HIMMATLAL SOLANKI v. UNION OF INDIA] has declared that the”offering of the prayer to the earth at the time of foundation laying ceremony cannot be termed as non-secular action if ‘manav dharma’ is to be understood in its real sense in furtherance to the principles of secularism to be observed by our nation.”
wasting time on such small things will not serve any purpose
March 31, 2011 at 8:28 PM
also the same court allowed a guy from muslim community from m.p to have veils and beard when a school has banned that
this selective picking won’t work
its better if you guys speak more about education, jobs and that will work in long run and i mean it
March 31, 2011 at 8:32 PM
Rajen – You have given enough fodder (this is actually a deadly mix SRK and cricket) to people to fight till the final starts
March 31, 2011 at 8:48 PM
LOL.
It is about time we got back to cricket.
Lets look forward to India-SL final.
Hope to see Aamir there again rooting for INDIA and Sachin.
March 31, 2011 at 8:33 PM
How can you consider it a small thing, I personally am in the favour of Uniform Civil Code and indeed it will take place constitutionally some time in future but what happened in that case was unconstitutional and i dont think that you will disagree to me on that.’manav dharma’-where is it written apart from Hinduism? And even if it is a good thing it canr be inforced. If you can call an unconstitutional judgement by a court of India a small thing I wonder whats a big thing for you.
March 31, 2011 at 8:43 PM
go and start agitation against it as it is causing destruction of humanity(pun intended )
and please start reform for a pure(pak) state
when more and more educated muslim intellectuals like javed akhtar, hamid ansari are talking about reforms and change in law we are seeing such things
March 31, 2011 at 8:37 PM
Thats another thing completely. Why were moslems not allowed to keep beard in first place when sikhs are openly allowed to do it. Was it due to the fact that Islam is considered as an outsider religion. Court did its job perfectly well in that case and it should be lauded for that.
March 31, 2011 at 8:49 PM
because its a private body and has his own law
why don’t you comment when loads of muslim ladies are filing suits in law against these present law in case of divorces etc
why don’t you comment now we are seeing loads of complaints against these laws in court
again double standards at its world
when one will accept there is a problem then only there is a solution
btw i also advice you to start major agitation against many democratic secular country which to has UNIFORM CIVIL CODE as part of law as it is part of democratic and synoymous societies
March 31, 2011 at 9:36 PM
wrt private you will never see a private body ever banning sikhs from keeping turban or beards or neither it should be.
How do you know that I dont comment. Here these sorts of issues havntt been raised before in my cognizance.
Also i think that my actions can only bring change(i hope so) in India(my country) so I will restrict myself to where I live. I am personally in favour of UCM and i think and hope it will be implemented soon.
Regarding Moslem ladies and ladies(across all religions) in general in India right from historic times there are whole lot of problem but to say that UCM will solve all those will be a naivety.
Regarding accepting the problem ,what if one just doesnt accept the problem and what if that one is a whole society. For me its frightening.
I consider it the end of discussion as I dont see any more points left. It was nice talking to you and I hope in future it will be same.
March 31, 2011 at 9:06 PM
Satyam,
The politics you say as SRK plays, I’ve noticed it that there is always a dichotomy in his views and his personality. I’ve noticed it too… He plays cocky one day and vulnerable the next, hero and victim etc… Agree with it all. Can’t see the dangerous politics in it though.
Similar thing, Vir Sanghvi described in his writeup about SRK as “If you use the traditional definition of intelligence as the ability to hold two completely contradictory thoughts in your head at the same time and still function normally, then he is in the genius league.”
This article if you have not already read might interest you. (I’ve lost the orginal website where it was posted, this one is a copy in a fansite.) http://asianoutlook.com/aoforum/showthread.php?t=2702
March 31, 2011 at 9:18 PM
He is obviously smart enough to hoodwink the lesser individuals.
But cant stand upto scrutiny of those with a sharp mind and clarityof thought.
Lets not put much credence into Mr.Sanghvi’s writing who is known for writing scripted pieces for a price. Which is precisely what the peice sounds like.
March 31, 2011 at 9:21 PM
Vir Sanghvi isn’t exactly supporting and praising SRK here. And SRK did not like Sanghvi’s analysis by the way.
March 31, 2011 at 9:31 PM
To me it soundslike sycophancy but may be was not syrupy enough for the essentially insecure SRK!
March 31, 2011 at 11:03 PM
An interesting point about Vir Sanghvi and HT during his days. Vir Sanghvi poked fun at Aamir Khan at every given opportunity while he praised SRK lavishly. It seems he was invited for dinner at Mannat and was floored by SRK’s charms. Vir also employed Khalid one of SRK’s undying supporters and also an Aamir Khan baiter. Khalid in his style started giving humiliating reviews that did not star his favourites and those films which did not please him for other reasons than a strictly filmi point. Thus he had to go. Otherwise HT itself was being boycotted by some of Khalid’s victims.
SRK must be crystal clear when it comes to things like terrorism and even cricket. Because that will make some others to follow his example as he is one of the most popular icons belonging to the minority community.
There is always this question as to why only muslims have to prove explicitly that they are for India. It is due to an unfortunate mix of Kashmir problem, terrorist being trained in Pakistan, votebank politics and some muslims’ stand vis a vis these issues.Loyalty and love for one’s country cannot be achieved by force. Pursuasion works sometimes. Yes. there are more hindus selling their country’s interests by corruption, scams, black money, divide and rule policies, power hungry tactics and innumerable faults. But these types exist in every society and country.
Come on. proclaim loudly that you hate some of the Pakistan’s policies regarding India and its constant interference in Kashmir. When it comes to one’s country, it should be black and white. Not grey.
March 31, 2011 at 9:41 PM
@bash: for a proper amt. they will all sell the country (hindu/muslim doesn’t matter); be it cricketer/actor/politicians…no one is clean. They all go to dubai and sing/dance for mafia dude and actresses do more than that…probably they all have swiss bank accounts as well. I guess we don’t need lip service of patriotism but real actions. At the end of the day, I don’t really care what these people say in public, for they are known to speak from both ends of the mouth but actions speak louder than words. I like Salman because of his charitable acts….I think he is the most philanthropic of them all.
March 31, 2011 at 9:53 PM
@rajen, And frankly I don’t care if SRK is hoodwinking anyone. I just see him as a fiercely competitive guy whose interviews I sometimes like, sometimes genuinely witty and wrt to acting has an immense screen presence, hate it while he hams …. I used to admire him more earlier days. Find him unhinged and stuck-up these days. Hope he reinvents, else it will be a waste …
It would be tragic turn in the (con)fabulous tales about his rise to stardom, if the rumors about his sexuality are true, more so while he is desperately trying to maintain the family man image. But why bother shaming yourself by making a tasteless comment about it?
March 31, 2011 at 9:39 PM
Looking at the plight of ordinary moderate Pakistanis today, I actually feel genuine empathy for them. In recent months, I am seeing and hearing more and more of them lament the rise of fundamentalism in their midst, while many privately agree that they themselves have had a hand in it. When they see a rising India, they privately admit that their country is going to pieces, and they have started questioning the raison d’etre of Pakistan. The concept of a democratically governed country with a Muslim majority is by itself flawed. If there is no Sharia, there is no Islamic country. Jinnah and Nehru with their twin-egos screwed up a populace at their own whims.
Once upon a time, I went ballistic against SRK on these very boards. But my view vis-a-vis Pakistan and SRK has totally changed. I feel that if moderates like him do not find a defined voice and locus standii in their history defining debate of moderate vs fundamental Islam, these moderates are going to lose everything they ever wanted from the country they live in. An ordinary muslim in India will never ever want to go and live in the hell which Pakistan is degenerating into. Who would like to go to a country where moderates are getting gunned down daily, where there is no security for minorities, and no laws to protect women from rape.
So, I believe, its hightime we give a shoulder to these moderate muslims, who are looking down the barrel of a gun, and who are sandwiched between their own fundamentalist brethren and a cynical non-muslim world, be it the West or the East. If we do not let them have a voice, they will disappear soon.
March 31, 2011 at 9:50 PM
“moderates who are looking up the barrel of a gun held by fundamentalists”…
March 31, 2011 at 9:53 PM
well said but why do you find the concept of muslim majority in democracy flawed(Indonesia)? Did you meant that any constitution based on Sharia and all that medieval stuff is flawed?
March 31, 2011 at 10:10 PM
Indonesia, and perhaps Malaysia are the only 2 functioning Muslim majority democracies. But, they too are fighting tooth and nail with fundamentalism. As long as the oil money flows from Saudi, the scrouge of Wahabism will set into any country that does not think of its consequences.
Take Bosnia. People there are divided between their loyalties to a Western world which saved them from the Serbs, and between the mujahideen that came from Saudi in the 90s.
March 31, 2011 at 9:58 PM
I’ve read some articles by London based Pakistani journalist, lamenting about the degenerating Pakistan while India is surging ahead.
April 1, 2011 at 5:41 AM
Thank GOD, what ever may be reason that there was split. Conditions would have been worst otherwise. LIke Subramanium Swamy said in India Today conclave ” Day Abrahimical religion stop saying that their Path is true path and their Prophet are last Prophet, Half of problem of Sub continent will be over” This is not going to happen and thus what happened in 1947 was good, although division should have been more finer.
March 31, 2011 at 9:57 PM
What is a moderate Muslim and what makes SRK one??
He, im mhy books is an inseure Muslim who wants to have his cake and eat it too. Loves the career and success and the luxuries earned in India but cant let go of his roots and, divided loyalties at best.
SRK is not looking at any barrel of a gun by any stretch of imagination.
I hate to pigeon hole any community be it Muslims or anyone else into extremists or moderates. But, if I were to use the word moderate I would use it for Muslims who are willing to disown the extremists. There are plenty of those and they are thriving in India and I salute them. Plight of Muslims in Pakistan is hardly a justification for pussilaminity of a Muslim in India. Not being either a public figure or a Muslim, I do not lknow how tough is it for a Muslim in public eyes it is to strike a right balance in India.But, being one of the public, I feel SRK is failing miserably.
Different countires, different issues, different priorities.
March 31, 2011 at 10:03 PM
If disowning extremist means voicing anti-Pak comments, SRK is failing miserably.
March 31, 2011 at 10:19 PM
People like SRK are indeed confused, because they dont know how to address this issue. They are indeed sandwiched between the fundamentalists on both sides.
April 1, 2011 at 4:18 AM
Don’t You all think there is DESIGN in SRK’s behaviour??
Setting for Political innings, He mirrors the congress polity..
Hindu’s have to take blame for leading them there, to be (Pseudo) Secular is fad atleast in public perception..
If we say anything in balck and white against Pakistan or islam, MEdia is going to pound on you and label you communal..
How many liberal voice of islamare there in India?? one can count them on fingers..
One can point to the direction but than tey have to walk the distance..
I have lived my life with muslims and i know “Religion” comes over everything else..same is happening now to Hindus also, We are down to dangerous path… I have lot to tell, true incidents but I alwys feel Politics plays major part in fanning those weeds..
March 31, 2011 at 10:01 PM
Pega, a rulebook that asks a raped woman seeking justice to first produce 4 male witnesses is too flawed for any society.
In India, a rapist (unless he is a bahubali or goon that pays off the police) is first given a good thrashing by the police. At least an ordinary woman knows that an ordinary man in India cannot get away with rape. Ordinary women are getting raped daily by ordinary men in Pakistan, and there is no respite. The solution: cover them from head to toe in black.
March 31, 2011 at 10:03 PM
And lets not even start on the Blasphemy law.
March 31, 2011 at 10:25 PM
I am not an advocate of Pakistan and neither do I think that any human being with any type of sensitivity can ever be an advocate for some of the disgusting things that go on in that country.
I dont think its just the muslim majority thing because democratic muslim majorities are going on well in countries like Indonesia.
March 31, 2011 at 10:07 PM
@ satyam – I noticed you mentioned Salman above somewhere. He was not at the cricket match. He has said countless times he is not a big follower of cricket. He did however, congratulate the Indian team and (thankfully) praised both sides and spoke very well without being controversial.
Just thought I’d let you and everyone know.
P. S there were massive celebrations in Leicester over here and in many parts over the country. The final promises to be a cracker.
March 31, 2011 at 10:30 PM
Ok let me add a few of my thoughts. I’m a Pakistani lad but have lived in England all my life. I too find it sad how my second home has ‘changed’ for the worse. Heck, I’ve visited twice and would think many times to go again. I hear stories (daily) of the awful things which go on in the country. The law over there is corrupt and the people sadly (not all obviously) are seriously messed up.
Now I’m a Muslim first before anything else and i am more in touch with non Asians than my own people here. There not as judgemental and all they talk about is sport, women etc. However, due to some Muslim extremists these people who I’ve grown up with will bombard me with questions which makes me uncomfortable. I’m not one to bury my head in the sand and think everything is hunky dory when in actual fact it’s far from being that. The problem I have with Muslims and pakistanis also is how naive some of them are. I remember (and sorry to being it up) when news of the match fixing broke. I had a cricket match the next day (yes I do play for my home town lol) and everything wanted to know mine and my other two team mates thoughts as we are the only Pakistanis in the team. Now one of them kind of refused to believe it claiming they may have been set up whilst me and my friend were extremely saddened by what happened and then completely lambasted there actions. We can’t just sweep things under the carpet god that pisses me off big time.
Now in terms of my religion. Only a month back and those living here will know what am on about. A program, Dispatches did research and made a documentary on the Muslim schools and what the children were learning and how the teachers behaved them. Now I was bombarded with calls and no matter how much it hurt me I each time said that it’s the truth (but those teachers were men brought from Pak who were ignorant and didn’t really know what the fuck they were doing. Now that doesn’t mean it was right coz it certainly was wrong beating innocent kids and teaching them to hate non Mislims).
What I mean to say is that Muslims should address such problems instead of finding excuses. Now since 9/11 things changed but I was too young to notice but the recent ongoings have affected many people and now when I go to public places (especially with other Muslim friends) the looks we get is shocking but I can understand.
Now I don’t follow SRK closely but I somehow caught his interview the one where he made that ridiculous comment to that women about being ‘Muslim’. Now I on a personal and objective level found that remark extremely cheap and it still shocks me not many have made a big deal out of it. Another point I’d like to make is that in the same interview SRK lifted his shirt to show his abs (nothing wrong IMO) but if that was Salman he would have been bashed by the media. In Dostana can get away with almost going naked but Salman showing his body is called all sorts. I mention this not to sound bitter or owt but the same rules should apply to all.
P. S sorry for the bad language used. I really couldn’t help it
March 31, 2011 at 10:36 PM
Arghh sorry for all the errors above. I’m using my phone and I can’t scroll up to see the comment hence the mistakes.
If anyone (lol) doesn’t know which actor I mean in Dostana then I suggest you watch the film again
March 31, 2011 at 10:40 PM
great comment here Naveed..
March 31, 2011 at 11:38 PM
@ satyam – I have to say and I mean this plz never stop writing the way you do. Peope like me benefit massively from your long comment (cough essays) lol
No I mean it it’s a pleasure reading what you write.
March 31, 2011 at 11:42 PM
that’s extremely kind Naveed.. thanks..
March 31, 2011 at 10:47 PM
Naveed, you have anecdotally stated what I have got to hear from many Non resident Pakistanis in the US lately. None of them feel that they can ever live in Pakistan again. The core values which they grew up with, those of moderation and toleration have been totally shredded in that country.
Smart, educated Pakistani women who used to think nothing about walking in jeans in Lahore or Karachi are now packing burqas when they go to visit there. Regular Television anchors are whole heartedly supporting people like Farid Paricha when they call for murder of people who they want to label as blasphemors.
When rose petals are showered on murderers, and majority of people condone a murder, then the country is on its way to becoming a Somalia, with nukes!
If all of us do not help the guys out there who are fighting tooth and nail against this ignorant band of fundamentalists, a Frankenstein monster will be awaiting for us across the border. The moderates have finally woken from their deep slumber, yes it took the monster to kill a few of them to awaken them. But now that it has happened, they need to be helped.
March 31, 2011 at 11:00 PM
Much of this is quite true. The problem with Pakistan is that religion has not been enough to hold the state together. It is still a state in search of a foundational fiction. At the same time if religion is understood to be the very reason for a state’s existence certain consequences follow. But Pakistan has also follow a traditional post-colonial narrative in certain ways, many examples of which exist from Asia to Africa to Latin America. So you have a state without strong democratic institutions. At some point the military steps in. The benefactor state, in this case the US, always quite involved in this country as in so many others, actively encourages military rule because it suits their strategic purposes. But the US actually started encouraging Islamist politics in Pakistan as in most of the Mideast as in a country like Indonesia. Because they were chasing the communist bogeyman everywhere. In most of these countries leftist writers and intellectuals were hounded. The Americans were just paranoid that these people would take their countries into the Soviet camp and hence any and all means were ok to prevent this from happening. So the natural evolution of these newly emerging nations was greatly stunted. At various points generals took over. The intelligentsia was either hounded out of the country or left politically neutered. Political assassinations were the order of the day. So on and so forth. In the end you have a perfect client state willing to do whatever. With the Afghanistan invasion by the Soviets Pakistan became a frontline state and the rest is history. But this paradigm was more or less repeated across different parts of the world to check the left. These Islamist movements were in many cases cynically fostered by the US. All of us are now living with the consequences.
In Indonesia in the 60s there was a massive massacre of the communist adherents and anyone too much to the left. In the thousands. All with the blessings of the US.
All of this does not really mean there is no local responsibility but many of these newly independent countries just did not have the structures in place to cope effectively.
March 31, 2011 at 11:18 PM
While all this is true, the US by itself cannot be blamed for this fiasco in totality. The US tried this in india as well, but they were pushed back. The Soviets did not do any less meddling in the affairs of all these young countries in the 60s-70s.
India was saved just cause it was too big, too diverse, too fragmented for any single stream of thought to take hold.
March 31, 2011 at 11:42 PM
India also had a master politician called Nehru for 17 years!
April 1, 2011 at 4:33 AM
Satyam,
3 standing applauds for your insightful commentary… To read you was, is and shall alwys remain a treat to little intelligence I have.. sometimes it goes tangent but thn others seek clarification..
and thanks to Rajen, consciously or unconsciously for debate
March 31, 2011 at 11:17 PM
Nykavi – I can defo understand why Pakistani Americans feel that way. Now I’ve visited most of Pak and have to say Lahore is in a pretty bad state from what I witnessed. We line in the Capital (Mums side) and it’s nice until I step out from the area so to speak
March 31, 2011 at 11:54 PM
Naveed : regarding “the law over there is corrupt” – corruption is endemic to the subcontinent. I have been visiting India almost every year and I can see the ten fold increase in corruption every where more so now a days. Like wise I can give several other examples where India has become worse although many good things have also happened and change is definitely taking place.
April 1, 2011 at 12:19 AM
@ filmbuff – agree with you 100%
March 31, 2011 at 10:56 PM
I have read not a single article where Salman was bashed for showing body. Salman enjoys tremendous good will inside BW. (Thats the politics I find in KWK insider guest). Somehow I find it strange that accepting the politics behind promotion and demotion of people who are associated with Salman like Katrina Kaif (fans claim sallu got her chance) and destruction of Aishwarya / Vivek career (which he talked about)…. are not seen as politics. Salman has a philanthropic streak, for rebuilding damaged image or probably a genuinely felt need for redemption….
April 1, 2011 at 12:52 AM
thnk god u didnt used Old… as other than the fact u might have been sued for copyright
u would have got people really confused !! mighty confused!
jus kidding bash! have a bash here
March 31, 2011 at 11:36 PM
Now I don’t know how Muslims get on in India but from a few friends I’ve had first accounts of how people get on. A fellow class mate visited Gujrat and many other places and she had good things to say. Now in defence of Pak and every country. Like my mum says to me there’s good and bad people eveywhere. So, bash those morons and not the nation (that doesn’t mean I’m defending Pakistan)
In terms of the cricket let me just add. From what I know there’s no real animosity (rivalry yes) over here. We get on well from what I know. The winner will celebrate and the loser will just take it on the chin and move on. Now I’ve had the privilege of visiting places where Pakistanis and Indians live together. Let me give few examples.
I visited Glasgow 3 years back and in an area pollokshields there is a Gurdwara and right next to it a fairly purpose built Masjid. 2) in Leicester (predominately Hindu area) there is a massive Masjid called Bukhari. I’ve visited the place on two occasions. 3) in Wembley (around the town centre on a massive long road there is a Hindu temple with mainly Hindu newspaper shops but right next to the Mandir is a church which is now a Masjid. I visited there two years ago and loved it. Being in London (Wembley) there were tourists from all over the world, along with many Indians and Pakistanis. Plus the birds there were fit (all dressed in a very sophisticated way
Finally, I’d just like to say the new gen have the right mindset especially when it comes to sports. I just hope everyone can come onto that and it was nice to see Pak team (led by Afridi being magnamious in defeat and the Indian team reciprocating the gesture).
April 1, 2011 at 12:31 AM
Guys check this article out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adammountford/2011/03/team_of_icc_world_cup_2011.html
April 1, 2011 at 4:57 AM
May be that’s reason wat Vatikala was proposing
Sonakshi gets hate mails from Pak fans
Pakistan cricket fans showered hate mails on Sonakshi Sinha’s Twitter handle after she posted a morphed picture of what looked like Virender Sehwag hitting Shahid Afridi on the butt with his bat. Not just that, she captioned the picture De Ghumaake.
One of the post read, “Sonakshi just because of this cheap act of yours . . . I am unfollowing you, you should be a goodwill ambassador between your country and other countries, itna har waqt Salman Khan Salman Khan karti rehti ho.. usse hi kuch seekhlo tum (learn something from Salman Khan).
Sonakshi asked her fans to take it sportingly. “Pak fans very upset. Jung ke maidan mein ladne se toh accha hi hai khel ke maidan mein ladein (it’s better to fight in a game then in a war). I am all for love thy neighbour. Be a sport yaar,” the Dabangg actress tweeted.
Her current Twitter message reads, “No jokes today. Too many people here without a sense of humour. Boo.”
Well, seems it’s not just a ‘game’ of cricket when it comes to India and Pakistan!
April 1, 2011 at 5:05 AM
All he had to do was attend the Ind-Pak game in person – even his ‘non-actions’ say, smell and spark controversy!
April 1, 2011 at 5:55 AM
One top industrialist promises to gift one yatch to each of the winners if India lifts the world cup according to a journalist close to that top man.
April 1, 2011 at 7:39 AM
Just saw Afridi stmnt given in pakistan where he says, I question the mentality of Us pakistanees, Why we have so much hatred for Indians, rest of teams also play with india, he added, when we have all Indian in our houses, like music, songs, movies, when its marriage than why pakistani’s play indian songs like that…he also took Rehman mallick for Fixing statement…
April 1, 2011 at 8:17 AM
Some great points all around.
At some point, we need to stop making excuses and work towards a solution. I am totally flummoxed by NYKavi’s assertions re SRK. He is a symptom of the disease and in no way a solution. He is not a moderate who is waking up. He is either just confused or just a shameless oppurtunist. If all so called moderates were to act like SRK, there would be no solution and SRK like behaviour is hardly a deterrent to the relentless onslaught of extremism. For someone who always prides himself on his intelligence and says his mind is always spinning and is being hailed a a genius by sycophants, this ‘confusion’ sounds like a very convinient excuse. I think the biggest favor his supporters can do SRK is stop making excuses for him. The remark following the lifting of his shirt was INEXCUSABLE in any context. How did the ‘musselman’ thing get in is beyond imagination. Instead of trying to dismiss it as a failed attempt at a joke, it should be see nas what it is – a betrayal of a certain mindset and thinking. If Big B were to ever pull a stunt like that ( not that he ever would) all my respect and affection would evaporate in a second for there is no excuse for this kind of behaviour.
April 1, 2011 at 12:19 PM
Rajen
I never condoned SRK’s distasteful behaviour with that striptease and ‘muslim’ genitalia-id comment. All that stuff is indeed reprehensible, and should be roundly condemned.
However, vis-a-vis his comments on Pakistan and his hypocritical stances, I feel that all those are a product of the sticky wicket which any Indian having a familial contact with Pakistan finds themselves in. They are all torn between patriotism for their homeland and the need to support those in Pakistan who actually want to have the same freedoms and lifestyle that an Indian muslim enjoys. On the other side, the average moderate Pakistani is torn between patriotism for their homeland and the need to preserve their lifestyle, which is quickly getting bulldozed by the fundamentalists. The Mullahs have equated patriotism with fundamentalism. Those who do not condone fundamentalism are quickly and with guile/trickery associated with being unpatriotic or India-lovers. Its a huge quagmire swallowing all these people who are literally in the middle.
SRK is the talkative kind, and very regularly finds himself with his foot-in-the-mouth. Salman too made similar comments after Dabanng, but somehow that did not get snowballed. Aamir too did the same in 2002. All these guys are representative of the conflict. Howerver, we do love to pick on SRK, because of these additional crazy antics of his such as that ‘mussalman striptease’ or his constant ego-driven comments of being King, etc. Aamir and Salman do not go about with all that circus, and they get spared. You have to separate SRK’s stupidity from his genuine internal conflict. That conflict is shared by Aamir-Salman and any other moderate muslim of the entire Indian subcontinent.
April 1, 2011 at 12:29 PM
I would also like to add, that back in the days when MNIK controversy was going on, what really pissed me off was the stance of many many moderates who either tried to be naive or did not want to face the reality of terrorism. Its only when their own started getting devoured by the monster, that they started to question their stance and wake up. Many of them now admit that it was their own loose encouragement to the mullahs which fed the monster. Its also a realization now from lots of them, that they may be too late in the game.
April 1, 2011 at 12:38 PM
Nykavi, you have a point but the problem is that there’s a lot of gray area in these debates and a lot of times the discourse of the right naturally invites a defensive posture on the left. So for example I’ve said so much about SRK over the last couple of days. But if the Shiv Sena starts saying stuff I know they’re coming at it from a very different perspective. So one has to be careful because there are always interests out there waiting to hijack the agenda. And sure terrorism is a problem but it cannot be discussed only in isolation. It doesn’t exist in a vacuum. To repeat I would disagree with the Sena even if I agreed with them. It’;s about contexts.
April 1, 2011 at 8:20 AM
Highly appreciate your comments, Naveed and to some people of your faith, it might sound like a betrayal but the world at the moment needs more clear thinking people like you. NYKavi, this is what a moderate is being about.
One can stay true to ones religion and community and the country and still be responsible.
April 1, 2011 at 9:43 AM
Dears,
It is very shock to me when i saw LPW appeal against great player sachan on TV GEO News Pakistan),where sachan declaired out but at the mean time he appealed for raferral system ,third umpire made a big balander orginal replay showing that the ball was going to the stamps but third umpire took another ball of the same spell wrongly for making final decision which was showing that the ball was going out the stamp.bad……umpire should be charged.
April 1, 2011 at 12:50 PM
Sachchi baat Boli.Bahut bada ‘balander’ kar diya!
April 2, 2011 at 5:04 AM
I think SRK screened the match at mannat and some actors went there to watch.
At least that’s what I understood by the headings of pictures over at Pinkvilla.