This entry was posted on May 28, 2011 at 12:55 AM and is filed under Refugee . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed
You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
On a serious note, I wouldn’t want to swap jobs with an Indian cricketer right now. I don’t think I’d like to lift a bat or ball just 5 days after the greatest triumph of my life. It’s just freaking insane!
you’re right.. I think it was Bruisers and then they changed it to Tuskers:
says ‘terrific’ here but I don’t think that’s part of the name anymore. Think this change came late anyway because I can’t find any image with the logos of all the teams that has Tuskers. It’s Bruisers everywhere.
How the hell did Srk manage to rope in those four into kkr.
Did he put himself up for……..
Seems Srk has a good combination this time–but there is something about kkr that spells doom!!!!
I told u”kkr spells doom” BEFORe I knew anything about this game (bad timing premature after world cup).
Did someone notice that the way The ipl4 schedule has been drawn up, it wants / assumes/ needs india to perform badly in the world cup. They never thought india will Reach beyond the quarter final stage!!
Agreed Satyam tbh everyone wanted India to win the WC but how many did really believe..IPL organisers didnt. Oh well its all good to me..dont mind the IPL as much as others..more cricket for me..after that looking forward to India coming to England..
Look forward Satyam..Its obvious in the Tests vs England they will have Ishant, Zaheer and bhaji ..but I hope they make RP Singh rediscover his form and sustain it he was sensational last time around..The lad is still young to do well next few years..Also India really need Ishant to step it up now so he can lead the attack once Zaheer retires..We need more then the batting I think one or two pacers to help India sustain at the top..
Its unfortunate..RP singh even Ishant not quiet up to thier debut year pace..We need more pacers and for that matter..another spinner or two ..Bhaji wont be around forever and no one has really filled Anil Kumbles boots..Though I believe Ashwin can so need another spinner and one or two pacers.. What do you think Satyam?
Guyz IPL is shown for free on ITV 4. They started showing it on ITV 4 from last year. I’m no ipl follower but thought I’d inform all you cricket enthusiasts. The next cricket I’m really looking forward to is the text series of Eng v India.
Chennai’s victory yesterday was a hard fought one. But it also emphasizes Dhoni’s remarkable poise during KKR’s onslaught. He ‘knew’ the tide would change once the ball got softer. Apart from scoring 29 runs, he ran out Yusuf Pathan (a brilliant piece of fielding) and was involved in 3 stumpings!
Gambhir missed a trick or two (or so it seems) by coming way down the order. He was impressive as a captain in the ODI series against New Zealand, where India blanked NZ 5-0 with a second-string side, but in yesterday’s match, he probably got it wrong. A thrilling finish, nonetheless. The Chennai wicket wasn’t a typical T20 one and provided help for the bowlers as well. That’s how wickets should be made.
That “poise” and “cool” is typical of dhoni…
Read somewhere that he practises yoga, like dravid. Think yoga should be essential for the whole team.
He also has quite an in-depth understanding of how the game works and the effect of various conditions.
Thanx Saket for that good link.
It seems that u have STILL not recovered after the South african untimely exit strengthening their “choker” tag—something u had been opposing vehmently. lol
Suspect that this put u off the world cup altogether although there was some “urgent trip” hahahaha
Cmon get over it now—suggest u enjoy indias WC victory–lol
gambhir was (surprisingly to me) the costliest signing this year.
So why did he have to bring himself down to no6 in the kkr match vs chennai.
Strange wierd tactics by kkr as always!
Notice something—Lots of overseas “past their prime” guys just “hanging along” IPL teams as various fancy versions of “support staff” and earning mega bucks.
U do understand a coach and even separate bowling, batting and fielding “consultants”, but in addition most teams have really fancy overseas tag alongs in the name of psychiatric and sports medicine “consultants”.
NOT sure they are needed/ worth it even for the novelty value.
Each of these “hangers on” may be charging more than the entire budget of say the indian national hockey team.
KNow that cricket due to its popularity self-sustains, but it is incumbent upon the govt authorities to “audit” and put a quota system wherein a small percent of their investment into ciricket HAS to go for indias other poorer sports. This will go a long way in avoiding blushes in olympics where a bronze medal winner looks like a v v rare entity
@munna- i am sorry i cant find satyamshot link, but below is something i wrote which i feel some ideas can be devoloped in to movies for our sporting legends. on google i got ng linbk of same article.
would like to know ur views, as i feel sachin, ganguly, 1983 provide real fodder and base for gre8 cinema
malingas first 2 overs against delhi were interesting and showed how lethal the “linger” can be.
Sehwag hit bhajji for 10 runs in the first over and threw him out of the attack.
Malinga came back to eliver an unplayable yorker to uproot warners stumps, then did the same to chand. The next ball sehwag however, guided malinga for a four—showed the “gulf” in class.
Sehwag however was run out by an invigorated sachin…..eventful stuff
yes iamthat.
The slinger really nailed it. He seems to be able to delver “toe crushers” at will and even in his sleep!!
Heard that he practises without stumps with just a pair of boots to aim at …and he does it day in and day out.
What adds to it is the angel. how low down his ball realease is and how close to the umpires central position he delivers the ball. HAs implications in getting in lower bounce, and given the line of ball, getting an LBW is that much easier…
ONe cannot and should not take away from malingas lethal performances recently.
Also in the WC final, he NEARLY delivered the early crucial twin blows which needed the best of the indian famed batting and captain….
Mumbai win easily and tendulkar topscores again from mumbai.
ON the sky spoirts commentary UK panel, there is already talk about tendulkar winning the “ONLY” trophy to elude hi8m–NOW IPL…
Think this is a bit too much—does 10dulkar HAVE to win everything under the sun to prove anything further.
camon guyz –give him a break/.
Also saw a rejuventated and “loosened up” tendulkar who was playing in a more carefree manner—seems this is a warning to bowlers that sachin is far from over!!!
You have to see it believe it satyam, That man was fielding like 20 yr kid and hitting stumps regularly… He will now play for freely and fearlessly and that is baaaaaaaaddddddddddd news to bowlers…
yeah Sachin has another goal now, winning the IPL! Last year Mumbai were very good but lost eventually. After the WC Sachin will try his hardest at this format. LOL!
MAlinga keeps it simple and doesnt try fancy stuff.He knows his wierdo action favors him (now that it has been allowed). He has “pace” and “change in pace” and the “toe crusher”–he sticks to these and tries to do it well.
Saw a certain earnestness and focus in him. Also liked the way he just followed sachins instructions and field settings without even batting an eyelid.
He did not even bothered about ANY fied placing which appeared irrelevant.
If a malinga like bowler (or two)gets added to the current indian team, it may appraoch the supremacy of the WI or Aus teams at their respective peaks.
BUt the moment of the day (besides Malingas carnage), was the enthusiasm with which sachin rushed to run the rampaging sehwag out!!
There was someting ominous for bowlers the way sachin was prancing around like a kid….
He seemed to have “unhinged” himself from all pressures and targets and was looking like enjoying himself.
ONly an injury can prevent another avalanche of runs in the next year or two–mark my words
Was going to post something about this; it’s unbelievable. He scored 80% of the team’s total — don’t think it’s ever been done before. He scored his 100 of 69 balls, which means he scored 85 odd of the next 27 balls!
But irrespective of these stats, he’s a quality player. The best player in the current Australian squad — in all 3 formats! And it’s even better if one watches him in test matches. He’s not a butcher like Hayden, but also has some classy shots in his kitty.
Alex dude, nice to see that you are still trying to pull my leg. Not that I’ve got a problem with that, but just to let you know, I am NOT a South African national.
I admire their cricket team’s sense of discipline, their basics (including ground fielding) and since I’ve always been partial to quick bowlers in cricket, happen to be a fan of Steyn & Morkel. This is a team that chooses to leave Albie Morkel out! I can only have respect for them.
Having said that, I doubt there are few, if any, avid followers of Indian cricket as I am. If there were a craziness quotient for that, I’d be sure to fall in the top heap. But of course, that won’t stop you from cracking another South African “choke” joke at my expense, but that’s your prerogative…
Eden Gardens, one of the greatest cricket stadiums in the world, had an audience of 35,000 in the South Africa Vs Ireland game, but only 20,000 for KKR Vs DC. Love that stat. Even the cameras couldn’t hide the empty rows, when the instructions were probably to display fan enthusiasm. In Kolkata, SRK isn’t even one fifth as popular as a retired Dada!
but i am sure everyone has to move on.. players go.. but franchise have to remain!!!
but heres the problem franchise of ipl dont have cult following of say football.. where even when beckham, ronaldo leaves us.. we bid good bye but retain support for manager and club
but how old is soccer leagues?? ipl is just 3 yrs old n with highs n ebbs, and lot of churning it will evolve there…
ipl is just 3 yr old but SRT is 21 yrs cricket old so naturally affliation with SRT will prevail… that is not the case with soccer, some leagues are there centuries old, but they n fans may have gone thru same at begining
@iamthat- error .. when i said ipl dont have cult following, i meant the same that they are new, just that going for small comment i missed out a material word it should have read-
Don’t know how many times I’ve said this but Sachin defies the imagination.. just defies it in every conceivable sense. One of the greatest sports figures ever, not just cricket. I pity anyone who has the slightest doubt about this. It’s not just about piling up the stats and so on. This man’s lust for the game, his incredible ability to show up with this kind of passion and will after almost a quarter of a century in the game and to be able to play it at the level he does just reconfigures any notion of greatness one could possibly have.
“Eden Gardens, one of the greatest cricket stadiums in the world, had an audience of 35,000 in the South Africa Vs Ireland game, but only 20,000 for KKR Vs DC. Love that stat.”—agree saket.
Think the way Ganguly has been treated in the ipl auctions was quite shameful—whatever may be the reason–im sure even if ganguly was to be avoided, this could have been handled better. Ganguly is probably one of the best (if not the best0 indian captains ever—and im not one of his kolkata bengali “blind” fans…lol
ANyhow, nice to hear that you have gotten over the south african exit now…lol
Sachin completing another clinical victory…its getting so preditable.
Hoep zaheer and some crucial players stay fit for the england tour!!
Irritating to see the dad-son naughty duo of vijay and sid mallya jumping on and off the field as if they bloody own everything under the sun—everytime RCB play.
Good to see Ishant sharma strking some form and getting dilshan…
The sharmas (rohit , ishant), rp singh need to rediscover themselves esp the pacers
Zaheer khan sent at one down by rcb.
Nice beauties in the stadium whenever the senior mallya around.
Was interesting to see the likes of sahara chief and mallya surrounded by bollyowood “beauties” and other pseudocelebrities trying to keep them in “good cheer” lol
Know that cricket creates its own spnsorship and self sustains, but for a country like india the amount of money being offered with the cricketers –indian, overseas, support staff is obscene and vulgar of epic proportions,
Also it makes the fate of other sporttspersons in india worse.
\Shocking story where 25000rs was offered for losing a leg and it was hiked only after strong protests in the media— http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/i-felt-like-a-beggar-arunima-sinha/196560
Think therre should be a “quota system” where every corporate sponsor or fanchisee HAS to donate say 10- 20 percennt to another non cricket sport in india, and a tax exemption may be introduced or some such sop.
Besides, it is embarassing for persistently going medal less in every olympic…
I don’t know what you guys feel but I am in that group for people who think that SACHIN still have enough fire and stamina to play the next WORLD CUP too.!!!!
Sometime it surprises me that How mad we indians for the record. No mention of how easyly Kochi chase down that huge total. Everyone is praising SRT. How about Mahela jaywardhne’s sublime innings ?
Sachin was hitting like Dhoni today. Some of the 4′s and 6′s were shovel shots. The 6 over leg was great. At 38, still the best in the business. Nuff said.
Ive stopped commenting /praising sachin to save cyberpace….BUt the compulsive sceptic in me (i didnt see the match but saw only the scorecard) could not miss the EXACT figure of 100no (no less/more)…..
Heard a sky UK commentator saying that Mahela is perhaps the best TIMER in world cricket right now—intially found this absurd, but think he is not off the mark.
MAhela never uses any brute power but still finds the “strength” to regularly reach boundaries with proper shots.
The reinvention of Paul Valthaty!!
BY the way, unrelated– there should be a special “penalty” for batsmen getting out to missed “dilscoops” and “reverse sweeps”–Nothingn more embarassing and foolish than that!
Think Indian cricket has probably found a new find in Paul Valthaty…(although its quite early to say…) BUt he does seem the most promising newcomer this IPL!!
I think Dhoni has made the shot his “trademark” .. the most impressive shot I have seen so far this year is AB de villiers hitting a reverse sweep for six off a fast bowler – but really without any leverage. He is a quality player, probably the best improviser around nowadays.
Fantastic win. Late comers but great winners. But the colors they wear is too garish and an eye sore. That may be the reason that both MI and CSK were distracted and lost. Hope there are no more jokes about coconut catchers.
Just read one post where it said,in the opening match in the eden gardens ,there was a crowd of only 20,000..Hardly surprising looking at the way how big an acon sourav is in Bengal…But if the same instance would have happend to sachin,wankhede would have seen only ghosts…Having said that always believed ,once KKR starts weaning people would come to the Eden Garden in hoards..I thought it would take atleast 4/5 wins..But it happened much earlier than it happend..In sunday’s match,there was a crowd of 50,000 no less and probably the biggest crowd of IPL so far…There is no alternative to victory…
As in the world cup(and more so here), the key here is to peak at the right time—-towards the end qf, semifinal scenario.
Till then, all a team can do is not to lose consistently and ensure that the next stage is reached.
Wont worry too much about who is winning first and who is coming from behind–although three wins inm a row do increase ones chances and losing continuously like delhi or bang does make it difficult!!
The key is though—How to reach the knockout stages without burning yourselves and getting injuries etc.
After that, chance and the form of key players does make a difference…
HOw can Gayle be dropped by west indies–he is perhaps the only world class match winner they have currently!!
Irritating to see the “naughty” mallyas (dad-son) and SRK jumpoing on and off the goround as if they are bearing the whole weight of the world on their shoulders.
Arent there any rules to keep these characters out of the ground?
“HOw can Gayle be dropped by west indies–he is perhaps the only world class match winner they have currently!!”
My above words were written BEFORE gayle started hitting KKR out of the park.
Glad i am (again) vindicated by gayle who started out by hitting the biggest six of the IPL so far, just out the flight!!
I mean , guys like sehwag, gayle, dilshan are like gold-dust (although they are not exactly totally comparable)
The times they click is low but when they do—they seal the match on their own.
These guys need patience and nurturing!
And why the heck, was Gayle not even picked up by anyone in the IPL auction initially.
These sort of guys do have ome temperament issues but thats why the huge entourage of managers and psychologists are there for—to handle these sort of guys and cater to their special needs as long as they are decent needs–lol)
Also the case of ganguly.—The best cpatain and one of the best cricket brains of india having to hope for the sri lankan payers to be called back home for him to get a place in Kochy…
Shameful…
I hope ganguly also gets a chance and does well at that!!!
Gayle is a man on a mission today.
Rejected in the IPL auction and then dropped by windies.
NOw he has given a masterclass on T20 “opening”.
Thats why i go on and on about these “special” players like sehwag, gayle, dilshan, yuvraj etc
They will fail more often than succeed and one has to accept that.
They will have the temperament issues.
But when they DO perform, there peak levels far exceed than the so-called peaks of the other “consistent” ones!!!
For all my congratulatory tones on gayle, here too a few poiints to add.
What was gayle doing in the world cup and other non ipl games.
He seemed to be slogging and didnt appear to e trying hard enuf.
Today, he underlined that he is one of the cleanest and most brutal players but more importantly he was selective and exerted himself.
IN other words, one gets a sense with the sehwags and gayles that—they play well when the y WANT to—which is a question mark about their giving their 100% in all matches—(which is true for everyone, but in these cases the difference in the effort levels is really high)
Continuing in the same vein on Gayle/sehwag—
Gayle did it yesterday…
Sehwag hits 3 sixes in three balls —77 off 30 odd balls.
Underlines their iconicity
Yes rooney!
thats the nature of the beast.
In T20, there can be no favorites and nobody can be really bad (within limits)
Its like a “free for all” orgy and anybdoy can fcuk anybody!!!
hahaha
alex I think you are too kind on gayle and sehwag. You cannot simply say they perform well only when they want to..The truth is they dont have the techniques to perform consistently ..They will often struggle on seaming pitches..and occasionally flat pitches especially ODIs..What did sehwag do in world cup vs the big teams..Yes when they perform..they are superb but one has to accept thier techniques will fail more often then not..which is why they are dangerous
Having said all that sehwag is abit more consistent then gayle and thats about it and hes more dangerous especially test matches..You know at least in test matches hes always going to score at least 20- 30 runs quickly before getting out and sometimes thats all the rest of the team needs to get going..So gayle and sehwag they are dangerous but they will fail more then not but its when they succeed they are dangerous..
Cricketrules— u are right that guyz like sehwag are quite inconsistent esp in one dayers.
Thats not the contention.
Whats the point of discussion is—
A) Inspite of this inconsistency are they worth it–stats show “yes”
B) Yes, he rarely crosses only 30 or 40–
c)Its not only the “speed” but the humiliating way he mauls the “star bowlers” like he did to Steyn recently.
This has a knock on effect on both teams that “sets the tone”
D) All teams nowadays have a lot of expenive entourage of sports psychologists etc. If they have ANY job worth their salt, it should be to work on these sort of mavericks.
Even at their best, the rest of “consistent” guys cannot match these marauders.
An Anu Malik or Pritam even at their best wont suddenly produce a “rehna tu” from Delhi6!!
This argument can be turned on its head to suggest that the reason these guys lack consistency is because of the way they play. And, would be true.
There are others who eschew these kind of low percentage shots as they need to provide an anchor. Someone like Sehwag is given a pass when he has a forgettable World Cup ( tho he did have a couple of interesting cameos) because he is a ‘hit or miss’ player. Someone like Sachin would not get a pass as his burden is greater. On his day, Sehwag or Gayle can be a match winner but the team is built to survive even if the under/non performs.
I like Sehwag a lot but consistency is an underrated virtue.
Saw Sachin sobbing on telly at Sai babas death…
Incidentally told about this not only by an indian but a russian girl whose parents happen to be his devotees.
The “miracle stories” are there–DOnt have personal experience here but mayvbe someone from andhra or karnataka can shed light on this “phenomenon”
As for Sehwag, a little understood phenomenon is that he is probably the sing;le most reason to indias ascent to the no1 test team. Ironically he is more effective in tests and allows tje indian team those extra few hours to get the other team out twice.
The way he tamed the australian hostile bowling and single handedly turned the tables eg in perth exemplifies.
Again this “consistency” issue can be argues both ways (or more than 2 ways).
And to add–sehwag doesnt have the same impact/ consistency in the one dayers or T20s since there are many other “power hitters” there.
Wjhat happens to these “power hitters” in tests??
what has yuvraj or raina or yusuf pathan opr even dhoni done in tests?
They are no less in “slogging” or hitting sixes.
It takes a different mindset and skill set to do the SAME in test matches.
Sehwag not only scores but breaks the “mental backbone” of the bowlers in a way which is unique.
And to add—he should not only be taken to task but also investigagted for his “sudden lackadaisal” attitude in this world cup and even the IPL now.
If one reads the above passages on Gayle, one gets a morose feeling that these gus play WHEN they want to (which is unacceptable)…
I dont think Sehwag ever gives less than 100% but with his style of batting, these ups and downs are bound to happen. He is a savage hitter of the ball and is quite remarkable. His ‘inconsistency’ comes with the territory but yes, his performanc in test matches is amazing. He is a unique talent.
“I dont think Sehwag ever gives less than 100%”—Hmmm,,,would like to believe that!
But recently Ive had a bit of a scanner on sehwag and gayle.
Its not been a schizophrenic paranoid but dissecting a few subtle hints.
Its not that these guys deliberately underperform. But the gulf between their “efforts” is disproprtionate.
If there is ANY role of a sports psychologist,its not for the likes of sachin, dhoni and poor dravid..
And these sort of sehwag-like creatures are visible not only in sports but at workplace as well.
A potential area where lots can be done to optimise output & something im currently wokring on (on the side)..think i need a break now lol
Good to see the return to form of ishant sharma and even rp Singh .
Unlike batsmen, pacers are in shiort supply!!
Most or maybe all the “seniors” fromthe wc need to be rested for the WI tour…
I don’t think singles are as important in T-20s as they are in ODIs. In T-20s, the first 6 overs and the last five don’t benefit from singles.
That leaves the middle 9 where strike rotation comes into play. Here too, borrowing a term from baseball, the extra-base hits, or twos/threes become more important. Someone playing between overs 6-15 should be a very good runner and be willing to convert ones into twos. The ability to hit boundaries in overs 6-15 is an asset worth its weight in gold. In short, taking quick singles isn’t exactly a big virtue in T-20. This much is the least that’s expected from T-20 batsmen.
As for “dot” balls, I think that’s factored in the overall strike-rate of a batsman. In the frenetic pace of T-20 cricket, is it better to run more “singles” or is it better to hit boundaries and play the odd dot ball?
Interesting piece Saket. My only minor quibble here is that you might have chosen as a counter-example in the initial portion someone other than Sachin who despite everything nonetheless started playing in the IPL when he was much much older.
On the contrary, I chose Sachin because he has an outstanding IPL record. Shaun Marsh isn’t even a regular in the Australian side, but in the IPL, he’s the best batsman, by some distance.
Besides, my main aim was to suggest a method to compare a batsman’s performance in the T-20 format; to provide a statistical yardstick. Nothing more, nothing less.
Interesting stuff, Saket. Will have to think it over before I can say that I agree 100%.
You HAVE taken into consideration the batting position, average and strike rate which are three most important parameters. But, like all forms of cricket what influences these statiistics is what therest of the team is doing and that is frequently lost in looking at the the pure numbers. I think one should factor in what percentage of teams’ total scores do these players contribute.
I think that part is factored in a batsman’s average, at least to some extent. If 160 is the average score, and 150 runs come from the bat after taking away 10 “extras” then a batsman’s average, over a period of time, gives a good indication of his contribution to the team’s total.
infact being a hardconre sachin fans there are certain facts which will never be ignored:
from the time of his debut to end ganguly was the most sucessful indian odi batsman with close to 11 and half thousand runs ( the close second was sachin tendulkar with close to 10,800 runs) in that period
the fastest to reach 10,000 runs and made one of the most memorable comecak from 2006 when the chips where down
the time when indian cricket was at its all time low ( after fixing saga in 99 and cricket allmost lost his popularity in india) … ganguly took over as captain and bult the team from scratch and was instrumental in removing regionalism from indian cricket to great deal
infact hardly has seen any senior even talking rubbish about the man
he was the one who faught for kumble when his shoulder injury allmost ruined him with bcci for players insurance
he was instrumental in tendulkar surviving his bad patch in 2004-2006 when other seniors where calling from his retirement and exit from team( and ya i mean being dropped)
when dravid’s odi career was allmost finished in late 90′s and early party of his decade he made him keeper to save his career
no one will ever forget how he promoted laxman in second inning in kolkata ( and he made 281 and won the game ) from number 6 in first inning … when the same guy was down and out and that changed his carrer for ever
such an iconic figure should have been handled better
i bet if tommorrow there is a match between kkr and pune in edens the same empty stands in eden will fill up and will boo the so called kkr ( with only one local player now )
pune is in bottom now and i bet ganguly in couple of season will do the turnaround more eefectively here
there is a reason still this man command so much of fan following still now
Wisden ranked him the sixth greatest one day international (ODI) batsman of all time, next to Viv Richards, Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara, Dean Jones and Michael Bevan.
@iffrononfire
infact hardly has seen any senior even talking rubbish about the man . hardly has seen any senior supporting him the way he sneaks in IPL-4.
@iffrononfire
infact hardly has seen any senior even talking rubbish about the man.
infact hardly has seen any senior supporting the way he sneaks in IPL-4
I’m on the move….
But just now saw an in- form Yuvraaj being snared by malinga…A person of Yuvrajs calibre and form had a difficult time of getting away from that “bolt” and fell down afterwards getting unbalanced….
Before that yuvraj was hitting indias “best” spinner bhajji to all parts of the ground.
Malinga is currently head and shoulders above other pacers — his slinging notwithstanding ……
@iffrononfire
infact hardly has seen any senior even talking rubbish about the man. You said seniors and i didn’t know that Sehwag and yuvraj are senior to ganguly and even if we belive that sehwag and yuvraj says publicly they owe their career to him and he was instrumental in bulilding their career but after shunning ganguly for IPL-4 why haven’t thet came in support of him. Heck so far yuvraj haven’t said that he is happy for ganguly having in PWI.
Sehwags carnage highlights what I keep talking bout the storm called veerender sehwag.
Nobody comes close….
What people don’t realise is that sehwags best results are in tests not in one days or t20 unlike the Yuvrajs or pathans.
In tests the bowling ESP with the new ball needs a totally different skillset. That’s y the likes of yuvraj Pathan even rainas can’t replicate the same in tests.
These innings are few and far between but then u don’t see genius every other day …..
All talk about “consistency” is ok, but gets meaningless beyond a point when one talks about genius….
If people like pritam and vishal ShekhR keep giving “consistent” hits, can they give ONE “rehna tu”(delhi6)?
Sometimes ONE performance/effort is enuf
I feel blessed to be able to watch Sehwag bat like this. Viv Richards was great, but if at all he had a weakness, it was spin. Sehwag’s weakness is neither pace nor spin. Sehwag’s weakness is Sehwag himself!
He isn’t barrel-chested like Mathew Hayden. He doesn’t have the physique of Sir Viv or even the power. A relatively ‘short’ man by stature, his heart is bigger than today’s giant bats.
I’ve probably said this a million times before, there’s no one I’d rather watch batting than Sehwag. He backs himself and hits the long ball, but he doesn’t slog. Sehwag’s sixes feel like poetry. His fours are like novellas, as he hits tons of them.
Delhi team owners, at least got the name of their team right — no one deserves the ‘Dare Devil’ tag more than Sehwag. When he ‘dares’ it’s time for bowlers to utter their prayers…
I left the office when they were 3 down and thought what an easy match. And then I see this! Not seen the innings, but this one seems to bare resemblence to Kevin O’ Briens onslaught against England – a stunning knock from a hapless losing position.
Kevin O Brien had at least some support. Someone scored a 40, another one scored 30 odd. The 2nd highest score in the Delhi innings was 17!!
Delhi were 25/3 after 6 overs. The asking rate reached 11 in the 7th over and when Sehwag was done, Delhi required 24 off 24.
But these numbers are irrelevant. Watch his shots from today. None of them were slogs. He doesn’t play reverse sweeps, dilscoops and other ugly-as-hell shots. He just backs himself. And if there ever was a batsman who could ‘murder’ spin bowling, quality spin bowling at that, I’ve yet to see him!
I would disagree on that Richards thing. He was super against India in the 70s and one of his most devastating series ever was against India in ’76 where his scores boggle the mind! And this when you had that great Indian spin trio.
Yes, but he averages (average score upon dismissal) 18 against Chandrashekhar with 4 dismissals, 24 against Narendra Hirwani (!) and 31 against Abdul Qadir, with 3 dismissals each.
His average against Prasanna, with 2 dismissals, is 26. Had a great average against Bedi, though.
And also a great average against Derek Underwood, who could only dismiss him once in his entire career. Bedi dismissed him twice, but his average score upon dismissal against Bedi was 153.
Hirwani is really at the fag end of Richards’ career. Qadir is fair but then the WI always had tough series against Pak whereas they never had a problem with India. These things happen. In the ’76 series against India though and with all those spinners he scored 142 in the first test (batted once.. got out to Bedi eventually), scored 130 and 20 in the second (Bedi in the first inning, run out in the second), scored 177 and 30 in the third (caught by Chandrasekhar off Bedi in the first.. something similar in the second with Venkatraghavan bowling), in the 4th he had 64 (batted once and was bowled by Chandrasekhar). But this is a titanic series for a batsman!
He also had an excellent debut series in India in ’74 with Prasanna and Bedi on the team including that great unbeaten 192. Didn’t too too well in the ’75 series barring a couple of half centuries and here it’s fair to say the spinners got the better of him. But after ’76 the next he faced India was ’83.
Also think it can be misleading to look at averages versus individual bowlers without looking at other contexts. A guy cannot prosper as much as Richards did against India on many occasions being weak on spin.
Saket—how do u explain sehwags much better performance/average in tests vis a vis one days/T20.
As opposed to comparable “hitters” like yuvraj, pathan , raina —Note that all sehwag “admirers” call his technique suspect (which it is)…
Then y the better average in tests??
Why does he average better in Tests? Because he’s probably the only one who looks at balls as potential fours or sixes. I read someone’s interview, probably John Wright’s, where he mentioned sitting next to Sehwag watching a match. In between balls, Sehwag would scream, “chauka tha” when a batsman played a dot ball or got beaten. He probably likes test matches more because he sees more opportunity to play his shots. Captains set attacking fields in Test matches and that, unbelievingly, suits him. He has more gaps to play with and because he backs himself, he plays his shots. More importantly, when he gets beaten, he doesn’t dwell on it. He plays the next ball and not the bowler’s reputation.
These are some of the reasons to describe his success. But if there’s one thing that can be definitely said about Sehwag’s game is that he keeps it simple. Doesn’t clutter his mind too much and plays with positive intent. How he does that and why others can’t replicate him, if it’s all understood well, is the million dollar question.
It’s pretty much psychological. Sehwag knows in ODI cricket it is expected to be going gung ho. Whereas in test cricket its expected to build, amass and sometimes labour.
Sehwag makes the game look easy as much as Dravid sometimes makes it look complicated. On Dravid’s face you see the sheer weight of stress, pressure etc sometimes and simple looking shots are awkward. Sehwag is complete opposite.
Yes, agreed. Dravid gets stuck at times, but holds the world record for most 100 run partnerships, which probably means that he still does something right.
“That is big mystery of the present century.”—Hahaha—thats why the pointed question….
“One explanation is that in tests there is more open field to the liking of sehwag as compared to ODI N T20…”—In one dayers/T20s there are field restrcistions and batting powerplays that should suit him more .
PLus if his technique is “suspect”, when the bowlers are going all-out to get a wicket with 3/4 slips, y can he score more??
“How he does that and why others can’t replicate him, if it’s all understood well, is the million dollar question.”—Hence it remains unanswered!!!
Thats the reason i personally rank him in a separate category altogether. I was once asked how can i compare him to more consistent dravids, laxmans etc.
Well, the answer lies in the above paradox and the heights he can raise this utter carange to and that too in tests .
And the better the opposition, the better he gives eg australia in austrailia, pakistan in multan…
Sometimes i wonder=—who is the better to watch at his peak/prime–sachin or sehwag.
Answers invited (not essays)–thanks lol
It’s a question of what one is looking for. Once upon a time everything that Sehwag stands for was what made the purists frown! Laxman exemplifies the virtues of what was once valued. Times eventually changed. These days those who bludgeon the ball are just liked more. Even Viv Richards with his great field presence and effortlessness was not consider the most ‘pretty’ batsman of his era even as he was universally acknowledged as the greatest. Similarly with Sachin/Lara the latter usually won the debate on ‘aesthetic’ grounds. To get to your question of Sachin/Lara it’s an individual preference on purely stylistic grounds. But note how if you looked at some of Sachin’s similar knocks, i.e. those where he bludgeons the opposition he was second to no one when he got going. But again the distinction here is between having depth to one’s game and really keeping it simple as Saket suggested. Obviously the latter also requires great gifts and Sehwag certainly has had some mesmerizing moments but for me cricket isn’t only about this sort of thing. It is also about those great test battles between bowlers and batsmen. It is also about patience, crafting an inning, so on and so forth. Sehwag is a very instinctive player with as Richards said among the greatest reflexes he has ever seen in the game. But there is still a gap between this and the Dravid sort of talent. Again the problem here is that when the Dravid kind of player fails he seems out of form. When Sehwag’s out of form or even when he throws away his wicket in a critical situation that is simply seen as his style of play. As long as he can come up with the blistering inning sooner or later people are satisfied. This is not to say I underrate him by any means but I do think his fans tend to overrate him quite a bit precisely because ‘bludgeoning’ is valued today. And it’s not just him but many other players as well. This isn’t to say that they’re all the same. some slog, some don’t. But whichever way they do it as long as they go crazy with the attack they are loved. The Laxman sort of inning is increasingly left to the purists and doesn’t quite have the sort of popular appeal it once might have had. But also if you have Laxman battling a spinner or a pace bowler for many overs the audience today just doesn’t have the sensibility to value it very much. To end this with the ultimate example Bradman himself who was such a quick player wasn’t really consider pretty to look at. In fact the whole idea once was that if you were constantly attacking you couldn’t really be the most aesthetically pleasing guy around! Getting back to Sachin-Sehwag I don’t even consider it useful to mention them in the same breath. There are lots of batsmen who can do one thing better than much greater peers. It’s about the whole range of one’s gifts and improvisational abilities. So even as Sehwag had a stunning knock today and he’s had others as well I would never rank him with a Dravid. Much as Gundappa Vishwanath for all his great gifts and some very remarkable innings couldn’t really be compared with Gavaskar in my book.
I’ve been a fan of stylish batting all my life. Gavaskar, David Gower, Azhar and even Daryl Cullinan were a treat to watch. For the record, I haven’t seen any batsman hit the cover-drive (the most difficult shot to play; ultimately separates the classical batsman from the Yusuf Pathans/Gayles of this world) as good as Daryl Cullinan. VVS is probably as good as Cullinan. Sachin’s a close second and Sehwag, third. People don’t seem to realize it, but Sehwag’s off-side game is one of the best, ever!
It’s true that Sehwag hits sixes, though nothing like Viv Richards, but in essence he’s a four hitter. Not through lofted shots, but square-cuts and mostly drives. Both shots require perfect balance. And he makes them look easy, as Jay correctly pointed out. He’s fearless, yes, and I love him for that too, but the first and foremost reason why I love Sehwag is, because he’s easy on the eyes. VVS will win any cricketing beauty pageants, but in those pageants, Sehwag will at least have a podium finish. There’s a difference between Chris Gayle/Yusuf Pathan and Sehwag. A difference as big as night and day.
agreed on many of these points but in a world where Yusuf Pathan is also greatly valued (and many like him) the Sehwag kind of player will always be over-esteemed. This is not to deny Sehwag’s gifts but the structure within which he’s esteemed the way he is must also be highlighted. The rest of the stuff, specific shots and so on is rather more subjective. But even today where purists are concerned I don’t know whether Sehwag gets that podium finish you’re referring to.
The point is a rather simple one. Traditionally the more aggressive the batsman the less likely he would be considered as a great stylist of any sort! It wasn’t just about slogging but aggressive, attacking batsmen in general. Purists just preferred Gower on this score to Richards.
Sehwag is not your usual slogger. He is aggressive but am with Saket here that he just doesnt hit sixes. His off side game is real scary and that is one reason he does so well in tests. His cutting and driving is a treat to watch. Manjarekar summed in up well on his weekly round up on Cricinfo where he says there are only two batsmen who can master difficult pitches as well as Sehwag and Tendulkar. Sehwag’s innings the other day on a rather poor pitch is a testimony to this.
Also during world cup, on IBN panel I saw everytime host presenter would ask about Sehwag to Richards and Imran, They proclaimed everytime, as Imran said, ” Dont talk abt him. He is “Mallang(One who lives in his own world”and Richards said. ” Plz check if he has nerves in his body”.. Sehwag is arguably most “Destructive batsman” presently but SRT belongs to other Spehere, Where mortals cant reach..
Sehwag had to face Steyn, Ishant Sharma (both clocking 145ks and above) along with Amit Mishra and Dan Christian. Gayle faced Ryan Harris, Praveen Kumar and co.
And it’s actually quite instructive to watch both innings (Sehwag’s & Gayle’s) back to back. Gayle has got great technique…for baseball! He didn’t hit any cover drives, none of the classy stuff and after a point just assumed the batter’s pose from baseball. Great to watch? I’ll pass, thanks!
On a passing note, Gayle’s bat is so huge and wide, it’s a crime Scorsese/De Palma didn’t think of cricket bats while staging their baseball bat murders in Casino & Untouchables. And all that trouble to kill Luca Brasi? These Italians haven’t seen the world, apparently.
Sehwag, on the other hand, danced down the track against Mishra, played extra cover drives, flicks down the leg side, straight drives, using his feet all the time. That’s the point. In cricket, you use your feet. Otherwise it looks fugly.
“@Alex -Your anthr Fav, Gayle is making mockery of kings eleven”
Thanx Iamthat….
Have been busy so missed the innings…
BUt yes–like gayle when on song….
There is something about this sort of carnage bordering on debauchery that i like lol…
Have raised some other pertinent points earlier, examining this on-off phenomenon—is this just bout “bad technique”…
Pasting my comments from elsewhere…
For all my congratulatory tones on gayle, here too a few poiints to add.
What was gayle doing in the world cup and other non ipl games.
He seemed to be slogging and didnt appear to e trying hard enuf.
Today, he underlined that he is one of the cleanest and most brutal players but more importantly he was selective and exerted himself.
IN other words, one gets a sense with the sehwags and gayles that—they play well when the y WANT to—which is a question mark about their giving their 100% in all matches—(which is true for everyone, but in these cases the difference in the effort levels is really high.
“Its not about being a schizophrenic paranoid but dissecting a few subtle hints.
Its not that these guys deliberately underperform. But the gulf between their “efforts” is disproprtionate.
If there is ANY role of a sports psychologist,its not for the likes of sachin, dhoni and poor dravid..
And these sort of sehwag-like creatures are visible not only in sports but at workplace as well.
A potential area where lots can be done to optimise output & something im currently wokring on (on the side)..”
Having said that, there has been a tendency here and elsewhere, of putting down “poor dravid” esp in the post IPL era.
Dravid is at the opposite side of the spectrum.
A person of limited (definitely not exceptional) talent, who by the sheer hardwork, concentration, application—squueezed out every little ounce of talent and made the most of it.
BUt again, this is not limited to cricket only.
Unknowlingly humans applaud a person who has “photographic memory” more than the one who “crams all nite” to come up with a similar performance.
This “illusion of perception” is intriguing (and im not talking of cricket only)
There is a wider deeper underlying debate to be explored here…
Dravid is by no means a man of “limited” talent. He *is* exceptional, in his own quiet way. And so is VVS. The likes of Pathans & Gayle etc, are the ones who are FTBs (Flat Track Bullies). It takes ‘talent’ to play on seaming pitches; exceptional talent at that!
Given some training on flat wickets, by pulling some boundaries in and putting some more weight in the bat, or a combination of all the above, any GYMBO could whack a few out of the park. That, however, is not the proof of talent.
Finally, when people question Dravid & Laxman, it’s time to say goodbye to cricket. It’s not the game I used to love!
You are reading only the first half of the sentence…lol—suggest u exert yourselves and read the rest of the sentence.
This passage is not belittling dravid but infact putting his achievement in the correct context.
Dravid is a prototype case study that exemplifies “application”.
I personally considered Dravid more reliable, consistent and crucial for indian test batting than even 10dulkar during a golden phase esp overseas.
NOw i may sound to be exaggerating towards the other extreme—bit its the context that matters.
Besides, the wider point that currently enthuses me (beyond cricker) is—
“Unknowlingly humans applaud a person who has “photographic memory” more than the one who “crams all nite” to come up with a similar performance.
This “illusion of perception” is intriguing (and im not talking of cricket only)
There is a wider deeper underlying debate to be explored here…”
I repeat—dravid unlike laxman was not exceptionally talented …..
BUt his sense of application, concentration, focus surpassed all these pther names.
And if being a “flat track bully” is so easy, why dont the likes of dravids, kohlis, laxmans suddenly becum “sledgehammers” and earn megabucks in IPL now”
Hand-eye coordination is one of the many things that cannot be “practised” beyond a point.
U have to have some congenital faculties to be that good.
Hours of practice facing bouncers or spin on “flat tracks” could not and will not make dravid a “flat track bully”…….
“Given some training on flat wickets, by pulling some boundaries in and putting some more weight in the bat, or a combination of all the above, any GYMBO could whack a few out of the park.”—hahaha
There is something called “reaction time”, “hand eye coordiation” , “relfexes”, “bat lift”, “”bat speed”, and above all inherent strength and mental framework.
If it was SO easy, all these “cheap buys” in IPL would have changed their “cheap tag” in no time…..hahahaha
Amd lets send Saket to IPL next after giving him some practice in the above” pulling some boundaries in and putting some more weight in the bat “—and we have got the father of all sehwags and gayles—lol
BUt before that Saket has to get over the immense mental trauma experienced after the ouster of the “favortie consistent” south africa from the world cup…Know im being persistent in “rubbing it in” but i sincerely believe that this “talented ” Saket has not been the same after that SA ouster…….
We need the “normal” saket back—–recommend a bacardi blast with the end of life benefits mentioned in the OBL thread…….lol
So you are the batting expert, eh? Alex bhaisahab, regurgitating the language of Ravi Shastris of this world ain’t going to help you!
And if you need further proof, dig up records for IPL II, which by the way, was organized on seaming pitches in South Africa. Look up the records of the FTBs and think! I understand every cricket lover thinks of himself as an “expert” of sorts, but you’ve got to be seriously delusional and/or under the influence to pass judgments on someone like Dravid! And I don’t mean it as an insult, have got no beef with you, but sometimes, one’s got to draw the line.
“understand every cricket lover thinks of himself as an “expert” of sorts”—correct
” but you’ve got to be seriously delusional and/or under the influence to pass judgments on someone like Dravid”–INcorrect—U dont have to delusional to pass judegment on dravid….
Infact, it is not delusional to pass judegment even on 10dulkar, forget dravid….lol
And whats his average career strike rate (besides that few odd knocks)
Even gavaskar has a v fast hundred.
History is littered with similar odd “unnatural” performances—-but they are not representative.
U are still not getting the point—If u read this pasaage carefully, it actually underlines the importance of dravid-like characteristics more than the “congenital genius”…
What was the “average” strike rate during Dravid’s time? What was Ganguly’s SR? He was good enough to be called one of the best ODI batsmen of all time with a SR of 73!
Dravid’s SR compared to Ganguly’s, in their last 5 years, was 76 Vs 73.
By the way, being a FTB (Flat track bully) is NOT easy.
DIdnt think i will have to defend FTB, when starting this analysis of “talent” vs “application”.
BUt since it seems to have been mentioned as a “cheap easy commodity”–wish to commit the “balsphemy” of defending it..
It may have its own pitfalls etc, but this talk wherein it seems that every Tom Dick &Harry can “become a FTB if they want” is BS…
And dont take the refuge of flat tracks and “seaming pitches”—Try converted Dravid into a FTB on ANY pitch and u will get the answer.
To prove a point, he may do it once in a while in some circumstances, but not beyond a point.
INfact—anybody who has really played on a bloody cricket ground can tell u —Hitting slick exquisite fours is one thing–some people just cannot hit consistent SIXES beyond a point—jhis needs a different mentality, forget about “technique” etc
You think you are the ONLY one to have stepped into a cricket ground?!
So Rahul Dravid has to “prove” himself by turning into an FTB. It takes some doing to be an FTB?! Whatever you are smoking, keep some stock for the future. Once Dravid and the other greats retire, I’ll only have your comments on cricket for entertainment!
Now u r getting cornered into ur own “trap” slowly but surely—lol—love this game!!
SO now u r defending Dravids av strike rate by comparing with “ganguly” of all people—-lol
Suddenly Ganguly has becum the prototype Sledgehammer FTB amongst the likes of sehwag/gayle/pathan—hahahah
I told u —-the writing is on the wall—U r no longe the same afgter the WC SA exit—
One can even already bifurcate into a pre and post in the “saket saga”
Its intriguing but true…..lol
Saket—-recommend a rave/ orgy in Goa a la DMD, to get your “old self” back (speakin from personal experience)
U need to “recollect” yourselves now . I can recommend u take some other Aamir baiter(s) here as well, since they too need to “reclaim” themselves—hahahahaha hehehehe
Munna—Thanx for the interesting statistics there….
BY the way, Dravid must have taken some androgenic laden viagra before that (plus sexual abstinence for a month) before that odd innnings.
Just to conclude this “debate”–im one of the biggest fans of rahul Dravid (more as a person than cricketer) hahahaha
And find him one of the best looking cricketers india has ever produced
“Am totally convinced with that line of argument. Yeah dude, totally.”—Thanx Saket for getting convinced….U have shown maturity and “sportsman spirit” to concede this….Cheers—Enjoy the rave…
And Alex, the “illusion of perception” bit needs better examples. I’ll give you better ones. Think Allan Border, Geoff Boycott, Nasser Hussain. Or Shivnaraine Chanderpaul. Andy Flower and even Steve Waugh.
Dravid’s in a different class compared to these guys. I’m not just saying this because I’m a fan (I am, a big one!) but because he has all the shots in his book. When he plays them, they look heavenly. I shudder to think how people can admire Chris Gayle over Rahul Dravid. I’m not saying you do (I sure hope not!), but whoever thinks like that is under a bigger illusion.
I found amazing that some consider a guy like Gayles as Flat track bully,comman he has scored 100 vs Sa and Austraila bowling attack and destroying the very attack.
Regarding dravid he is one hell is one lucky guy to be playing in Indian test team for last 4 year doing nothing.He failed against Australia in india,SA in SA and was awful vs sl in sl….But scores plenty vs miserable Newzealand side in indian tracks.Poor Laxman even though he scores lot of run in test ,he dont got much praise.
Seeing Dravid and laxman Struggle playing ipl is not great for eyes also…Some are just born to play test only …Some are true greats who can conquer all format easily Like sachin ,Lara ,pointing also Kallis,,,,,not for nothing this 4 were considered World best in Last 2 decades.
Let me put my hands up right at the outset and say that I shall not be around to debate this at length… but I just want to make it known that I find it absolutely ludicrous that anybody with even the slightest knowledge of cricket, not just as a sport but a veritable art form, will question Rahul Dravid’s ‘talent’. If anything, Dravid is right up there as one of the top five most talented cricketers ever.
I think in this age of fast-food cricket, one tends to forget that ‘skill’ is often acquired over a period of time by honing natural ability. The likes of Gayle, Sehwag (I like them too mind you) have immense natural ability, as do the likes of Dravid, Ponting… although their inherent ‘nature’ is different. One cannot fault a Sehwag for not having the grace of a Dravid or criticize Dravid for not being as bludgeoning as Sehwag. They both approach the game differently.
The difference however lies in the ‘application’, a term that you seem to think of as a negative. What a Dravid has done over the years of his career is to ‘apply’ himself and make himself rise above what his ‘natural’ approach limits him to. No one ever thought of Dravid as an ODI player during his early days. But he has been involved in some of the highest partnerships in ODI cricket, the only cricketer to be a part of two 300+ stands. He has scores over 140 on several occasions, has the second fastest fifty… and has adapted himself to the 20-20 format as well.
In tests, I doubt one can think of a better batsman to help you save a game. And you talk of being a ‘flat-track bully’… well, I challenge any of the young outputs of today’s 20-20 cricket to survive a morning session on a green Headingley wicket as Dravid did when opening. And oh, for the record, he was also involved in the 400+ opening stand with Sehwag.
Alex sorry to say but I am convinced you know nothing about Cricket..Gayle will never be as good as Dravid, Tendulkar, VVS, Ponting and co..and probably Sehwag wont..End of..If Gayle and others like him were that good..why cant do it against SA or Australia in thier back yards..Care to remind me what Gayle did when the Windies got thrashed by England in Tests the last time they came? Almost nothing
So there you go..just because your team didnt do well in the WC please get a better sense of perspective..NEver thought I say this but I am agreeing with Saket lol
IF I am correct even Sehwag didnt do much last time he was here but Sehwag I rate more then Gayle..in any form of the game as a quick 30 from him is very valuable..Gayle is a talent that sadly has never reached his full potential..
Kunal you are right..Sachin, Lara, ponting and Dravid..Yes he has not been there last four years but the argument is over a career..In no way Gayle and Dravid are in the same league or Gayle better just because of his oodd innings
Brilliant—Really enjoyed this debate and am happy to see the rractions it is eliciting.
And the good thing is that Saket has been “sent off” on a break to A rave party somewhere by the end of it….lol
The problem here is that when people wake uptp an exchange without reading things in the correct sequence and totality and reaching “conclusions” by reading a few odd lines here and there.
Kunal–thanks for your views but agree with others that dravid needs much more creditt than that.
Cricketrules–U dont have to apologise for disagreeing although I or anyone else doesnt need your certificate to prove that “we know cricket” —hahaha–so cool it there!!
Infact Abzee puts it quite well (although he too misses my point a bit somewhere)—-
“The difference however lies in the ‘application’, a term that you seem to think of as a negative.”–Not at all—Dont think “application” is negative—infact that is the faculty which one gets by hard wordk unlike the “inborn talent”
” What a Dravid has done over the years of his career is to ‘apply’ himself and make himself rise above what his ‘natural’ approach limits him to.”–Agree there.
My main point which sometimes gets buried in this friendly banter has pasted again to avoid some naughty souls trying to relabel the title as “gayle is not better than dravid” and “dravid IS one of the best” and so on—These were NOT the points being made to begin with……
“Dravid is a prototype case study that exemplifies “application”.
I personally considered Dravid more reliable, consistent and crucial for indian test batting than even 10dulkar during a golden phase esp overseas.
NOw i may sound to be exaggerating towards the other extreme—bit its the context that matters.
Besides, the wider point that currently enthuses me (beyond cricker) is—
“Unknowlingly humans applaud a person who has “photographic memory” more than the one who “crams all nite” to come up with a similar performance.
This “illusion of perception” is intriguing (and im not talking of cricket only)
There is a wider deeper underlying debate to be explored here…””
And those who missed the previous one—enjoy this— http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13267353
And by the way, this is the THIRD time this commentator has suffered this plight.
Thats what sometimes happens…….lol
Alex, my take-away from this entire debate is that I might have tried out for the Indian cricket team. I would have worked really hard and might have produced Dravid-like numbers! Alright, maybe he’s a bit more talented than me but I could have survived on the Indian team.!
Alex,
You are missing the sarcasm here.
I understand the point you are trying to make of application vs Genius/inborn talent but you couldnt have chosen a worse example.
One doesnt have a career like Dravid just by the dint of application and perseverance. He was enormously talented and graceful and a pleasure to watch. May not be as carefree as Sachin or Ganguly could be on occasions and that relative lack of flair is being misinterpreted by you as lack of natural talent.
Dravid is a batmen in a classic mould. Just wish they made more of those.
Rajen–Didnt miss the “sarcasm” there.
BUt made an exception due to Satyams “talent” there…lol
As for the example to prove the point of “application” vs “genius/ congenital ability” —this is actually rhe right example.
One has to chose guys of equivalent stature—just like in doing any “research srudy” you have to choose age sex matched individuals.
U cannot compare a bachchan from bollywood to a Steven Segal from Hollywood,….
To compare something like Sehwag on one arm , one NEEDS Dravid on the other—U cannot have a mediocre example there.
And also putting Dravid in the other arm does NOT mean that he has subpar “inborn talent”—Its just that the proportion of “application” is much higher in the mix for Dravid.
the problem Alex is that you oppose ‘talent’ to ‘application’. Even Sehwag needs some application or his test average wouldn’t be significantly higher than his one day average. He’s not just an instinctive beast! Similarly with a Dravid you need a certain talent level to prosper in all the situations he has throughout his career. The way you frame it makes it sound that even a mediocre batsman with great talent could prosper simply by application. The truth is that those who are very gifted often do not apply themselves as much as they could and this shows in the numbers. But this too is part of talent. If you do not have the will or the patience and so on to be successful in every given situation that does ultimately reveal a ‘gap’ in talent. The ‘potentiality’ argument only takes you so far. One cannot just assume that certain batsmen have the talent but they don’t apply themselves and then penalize those who actually do. So you’re not really comparing like for like. what you’re saying is Dravid’s numbers mean less than they are because he worked too hard for them. Meanwhile Sehwag’s numbers don’t tell the whole truth because he could do much more. This is an asymmetric comparison. Because here’s the point. Even the greatest batsmen have to apply themselves in very many situations. You can’t just play the game instinctively off your basic talent level. It’s not as if the great batsman can always dominate the bowling as long as he plays to his talent level. There are great talents bowling as well! There are all sorts of factors from the pitch condition to the context of a match (how the team is doing and so on). So application entails working out all of this. if you say you’re going to score a 100 at a blistering pace irrespective of the opposition and the situation of the game, when it works it works when it doesn’t it’s too bad this attitude has to be factored into your overall talent. Because if I need a batsman who can hang around for 30 runs in a critical situation on a crumbling pitch it doesn’t help me that a guy can score a blistering 100 otherwise and take apart some of the best bowling attacks. Because that’s not what is needed. Your entire argument revolves around the ‘warrior-batsman’ who heroically overcomes all challenges and beats up the opposition. Given that you have played the game I am rather amazed you have that view of things.
Similarly no one is saying flat track bullies don’t have talent. Obviously everyone cannot do what they do. But it’s like saying in tennis terms let’s compare Roddick to Federer because after all not many can come up with the number of aces and the kinds of aces the former can. It’s not that Federer is somehow applying himself and Roddick isn’t. The latter’s talent level is just more limited than the former’s. If you want a contest of aces the latter will win every time. if you put Sachin at his pick in a 20-20 context with Pathan or Gayle at the other end sachin will hardly do better all the time. In fact quite probably the latter two might even best him most of the time. How much better can you do than a 220 SR?! But the flat track is also a great equalizer. A mediocre batsman can get a 100 here and the great batsman is not going to get 300! Not even 200 for the most part. On the right pitch with the right opposition though the mediocre batsman gets instantly exposed. Sehwag has actually done a great deal in all kinds of situations. Pathan wouldn’t be able to manage this. But with Dravid it’s a different level. With Sachin it’s yet another level. The ‘great’ batsman is most often revealed precisely when the opposition and/or pitch offer a challenge. That’s why certain innings become legendary.
and this is what I was getting at the other day. We somehow seem to care only about great hitters, irrespective of the contexts. That isn’t what cricket is all about. It’s not a mythic hero-warrior out there who takes apart the opposition no matter what. Even with the greatest batsmen those innings are rare. And even when they happen they’re not necessarily the best display of their talents. Laxman has never been that sort of batsman but he’s played some truly extraordinary knocks that have always been recognized as such. Similarly not everyone is Sehwag. This man clearly has some special gifts. But those should not blind us to the even greater ones Dravid has or at least had. And even if one wants to debate this comparison it’s one thing but one cannot say that Dravid is just about ‘application’. Remember Dravid was outpacing Sachin for a while. That doesn’t happen just by application!
Now this is really brilliant.
Squeezing such a writeup from satyam….lol
I may have been “paying around” with Saket a bit yesterday on this —which led to Saket been taken away for a “break” hahaha–But then there is a danger of diverting to side issues.
This debate iss now progressing towards the right direction.
If correctly argued (like now), there are certain “questions” that do NOT have a clearcut answer–whichever way u look at it………..
And one can see how even Satyam has actually got tied into knots himself (for a change)….lol
This was a poser wherein I myself dont claim to know an “answer”. Infact I raised more questions than i answer….
Besides, the wider point that currently enthuses me (beyond cricker) is—
This was what I had written up in the beginning of this debate—-“Unknowlingly humans applaud a person who has “photographic memory” more than the one who “crams all nite” to come up with a similar performance.
This “illusion of perception” is intriguing (and im not talking of cricket only)
There is a wider deeper underlying debate to be explored here…””
And this is an exerpt of what Satyam has written—”We somehow seem to care only about great hitters, irrespective of the contexts. That isn’t what cricket is all about. ”
Egg–jacktly—So thingz have come full circle.
The debate is NOT about Dravid in particular and dissecting his career stats only and trying to calibrate how much of his performances are “talent” or ” application”—
The point is much bigger and one that transcends cricket….
One cannot reach excellence on the strength of ONLY “inborn ability” or “application”—is a given fact that one needs both in good measure —It is naive to argue this known fact repeatedly!!!! Also trying to argue about Dravids exact ranking in Indian alltime batsmanship is irrelevant at this stage of discussion
The question is why more visible credit is usually given to the former in all spheres of life (or is it not) ?? Is it because it looks more glamorous or heroic.
Or is it when one comes down to the brass tacks ina comparison (other things being roughly equivocal), it boils down to the basic elements of nature And one is left with just the congenital ability in a simplistic sense??? or Not?
Thats the moot point ….
Another related (but deeper) example–Why is a female’s “inner beauty” not as relevant to choosing a partner for courtship/procreation for most (maybe all) males than the exteranl “physicality”.
BUt surely there is something in the evolutionary genetic code that DEMANDS such a choice to be made…
ONe can go on and on in this maze of ideas….lol
Also a side-note to add—Have had the opportunity to personally meet Dravid during an England Tour.
Even got to bowl to him in one of the practice net sessions.
Was really impressed with his focus and down-to-earth humble nature.
Very few people know that he has a meticulous yoga-meditation “drill” before going out to bat everytime—He passed on a few tips to the local lads……
Also to add something unrelated—He is one of the best looking cricketers ever from India IMO.
I’d say after Sachin the next two spots of best Indian batsmen ever have to be taken up by Gavaskar and Dravid in some order. I’d probably give the palm to Gavaskar for greater longevity. But can’t think of anyone other than Dravid to follow him. In fact even including the subcontinent (Pakistan) I wouldn’t take a batsmen over Dravid. They’ve had some big names but if you combine talent level with consistency I don’t see a Gavaskar or a Dravid there. And again I am looking at the entire history. That’s at least how high I rate Dravid.
Is it delibrate not to discuss KKR performence this year ? I think there comback in IPL-4 is quite remarkebal if not stunning. Though ther are not as consistent as MI but still they are doing good in all 3 departments.
No actually we haven’t discussed Mumbai or chennai either! But perhaps as a SRK fan you find the Kolkata thing more offensive! and there’s nothing incredible about their turnaround either. In fact it would have been shameful if they hadn’t performed well given that they beefed up in the off-season this time. One could argue they’ve underperformed in the past as well but certainly this year there was little excuse.
Dj—u have brought the “proceedings” back to earth—hahaha
But agree that KKR appears a much stronger team this year and one of the title contendors.
MI looks strongest on paper but usually the “strongest on paper” doesnt end up winning the titel in fickle tournaments like T20
May 7, 2011 06:03:44 PM IST
Enkayaar, Glamsham Editorial
Advertisement involving a star riding on the bandwagon of a popular sports event, coupled with the simultaneous film release indeed seems to feed on each other, at least for Abhishek Bachchan it has happened like this in DUM MAARO DUM. In the fourth season of the IPL seldom does a match go by where Abhishek Bachchan does not appear in an advertisement with his Idea in one innovative form or the other, and it seems to have helped in attaining a box office success for his latest film DUM MAARO DUM, which inspite of facing a still competition from DHARTI (Jimmy Shergill�s Magnum opus in Punjabi), has been able to garner around 23 crore and these are good figures.
view DUM MAARO DUM stills
view DUM MAARO DUM stills
Now if one were to analyze what went in favor of Abhishek Bachchan, in all probability his enactment of the role of a cop, probably coinciding with the anti-state sentiment, and he representing a character who wants to fight against the system, symptomatic of the current state of impasse in which our society is in, and also resembling the kind of films that his father Big B used to do in his days of yore.
DUM MAARO DUM is indeed celebration of a personal victory against the system which does not having any encouragement for those who want to stand on the right side of law, and it could be the catalytic factor how it has scored a hit with the fans in Mysore circuit as well. After all, corruption is one category that is above caste and creed, and if one tries to make an attempt to weed it out, though symbolically on the cinematic screen, he immediately registers a chord with the audience and they give him their stamp of approval. Abhishek Bachchan seems to have found one such chord through DUM MAARO DUM, and with some good support from the star cast it has become a surprise hit during the season.
May be, now the Paa aka Big B has to see the film and offer his comments about the manner in which Chota B has interpreted the character of a Policeman as there is no better judge than him to do so, after all Big B has played the maximum number of police characters on the silver screen. For Big B it would be redemption as his tweet on RAAVAN in relation to the performance of Chota B would be wiped out, once he tells the world his interpretation of Chota B’s performance in DUM MAARO DUM.
Saw SRK showing his usual stupid antics in a n interview yesterday.
How he deliberately changed the whole team this time and made a “fresh start” and how it has worked “big time” and how the “absence of dada” could not stop KKR.
When will this guy grow up!!!
Somewhere there was news that kareena will manage to kiss another khan (srk) and was touted as her big achienvement. NOw there is news that SRK wont kiss since he “doesnt know how to kiss”
WTF…………………
Pardon me, but I didnt get it what was so stupid about these remarks of his..
he said he made a fresh start – so..? thats right isnt it.. what else would he have said that could’ve made the statement intelligent?
absence of dada.. the remark instead showed his respect for ganguly.. that they are doing well inspite of not having ganguly..
doesnt know how to kiss… ok.. well…. has he ever kissed onscreen.. please enlighten me!!
It’s more in the way SRK said it rather than what he says on face value. Every franchise is there to win but the sheer childish behaviour that accompanies these matches ( not related to this comment)
And the “respect” he jas for ganguly seems to be the types he has for Aamir Or Salman ….more of antics can be seen in award functions where scores are settled in the name of “fun”
Anyhow have noticed that recently SRKs childishness has gone down and he seems to be sobering down.
The fact is that Srk is a self -made over- achiever who has many real creditable qualities. Nobody can take that away from him.He doesn’t need to indulge in some of the low level stuff he sometimes indulges in …..even Salman seems to have matured with age that way more than him….lol
How times change….
“I owe Dada a lot for all the faith that he placed in me when I just broke into the national team. I guess I felt a little sad when he was not picked by any team in IPL 4. As regards him playing on Sunday in Mohali, we will take a decision after assessing his fitness.”
loads of cricketers like Dada, I think. From Harbhajan to Yuvraj, have seen loads saying good things abt Sourav. It is only the boards that have problem with him.
Gayle and Dishan opening together for bangalore—trying to outdo each other…
Not sure how long this “gang-bang” will last–hahaha—suspect something giving way v soon
Dilshan reached 20 within 2 overs.
then Gayle hits 33(is it) in the third!!!!!
Enjoying this “gang bang” while it lasts.
All that talk about “flat track bullies”—hahahaha
Gayle 44 off 13 balls
How many batsmen can inflict this sort of damage on ANY pitch or against ANY bowler effortlessly—when they want—-brilliant
66/0 in 3 overs…..
Its amazing to see gayle batting,People like shewag,Gayle,Mccalaum,Jayasuriya are rare breeds without whom cricket world would be incomplete.Such player are born to entertain with bat rather than show batting skill.This all are extraordinary talent without whom suddenly cricket became boring.
On another note, felt good to see Ganguly back in action. I’ve never been a great fan of Ganguly but one can only have respect for Ganguly’s resolve. That’s been his signature trait, all throughout his career. His utility in the national team was long over, but he’s good enough for the IPL. And he looked happy, which was great to watch.
Unlike many who support Sehwag blindly, I would pick Gayle over him.. He’s proving to be a far better batsman..
Even if we do not consider Sehwag’s inconsistency, we must take into fact that Gayle belongs to a shit team and bears the entire team burden, at a time when even experienced players like Sarwan and Chanderpaul dont perform.
Sehwag belongs to a team which has not put him in a pressure of scoring runs and lets him play his natural game. Even he knows that Sachin n others lower down the order can always handle batting situations.
And there’s hardly a difference between an average of 35.27 & 39! But since we are discussing ODIs, what’s the difference between the Strike Rates of Sehwag & Gayle? Why didn’t you care to post that?
“I agree that Sehwag’s a far better Test Player”
He scores run but not a test player type. His average may look good but you need to see he has 2 triple and one almost triple century suggesting skewness in scores.
Pollard had some remarkable hitting at the end, he got out but it almost seemed possible when he was around. Harbhajan was good too. But you’re right, the chemistry is missing. Kolkata have also been doing poorly recently. Chennai have maintained their form.
so the ‘inhuman’ Tendulkar again failed to make a big score under pressure (in second innings)..
He is a great player no doubt.. But plz enlighten me – when was the last time he helped India in a successful run chase, and played a big knock when India had a big target to chase..??
The only matches that come to mind are the India Aus ones in April 1998.. !
I already had the India-Pak match in my mind before coming up with it.. It was a brillaint inning but he still got out when India needed almost a 100 to win, with about 6 wickets left.. It could have been a rather close match if not for the Yuvi-Dravid partnership then
“It was a brillaint inning but he still got out when India needed almost a 100 to win, with about 6 wickets left.. It could have been a rather close match if not for the Yuvi-Dravid partnership then”
Sorry, but that doesn’t make much sense. Chasing 275, if your opener scores 98 off 63 in a highly charged game, you’ve got to believe you won because of him. If the rest couldn’t have come up with the remaining 100, it’d have been shameful for them!
Besides, since everyone here likes to bring in the intangible facets of the game (rest of the team is $hit & so on), it’s also important to remember that during the course of that innings, bowlers like Akhtar, Akram (the highest wicket taker of the tournament) and Waqar were given a hiding. By the time Sachin left, they were so down on morale, their collective might couldn’t do much. And they couldn’t have, because the asking rate was akin to a cakewalk. All because of that one innings.
I’m not Tendulkar’s greatest fan, but no amount of persuading will convince me that he left the job unfinished in Centurion Park, circa 2003.
My point isnt that Sachin didnt help in an Indian victory that evening. He played an outstanding knock that was one of the most entertaining knocks ever.
Its just that how many times we’ve seen him scoring right till the end of the innings while batting second. even if we take the one under discussion, is that all we recall, along with the 2007 one..?
I am not doubting his greatness. But the big question is whether he has the ability to steer India to victory when he isnt playing his natural game..
I seem to be vindicated on gayle….lol
Missed all thee matches
Just saw d score….
As for Mumbai, the problem is to peak at the right time.
when I saw them on a winning spree in the STArt of this IPL, knew they will drop later …
Dhoni has this remarkable tendency with india and chen ai that he doesn’t get worked up with initial reverses….
tonymontanna are you serious? What was the WC quarter finals vs Australia this year..surely his 54 runs helped India..and the Semi Final vs Pakistan his 84 was the highest score in either side..Match winnings are innings that helped the team without Sachins runs in QF and SF India wouldnt have won..
Dating back..the sahara cup desert vs Australia last decade..There are quiet a few in ODIs.. I mean its pointless debating with you man..You are the guy that even if Sachin scores a century in second innings and India fail to win will blame Sachin for getting out.. Never see it in Australia..Ponting etc have got out after scoring a century..cant recall too many matches where Ponting has stayed right to the end but in Australias past the other batsmen finish the job hence its called match winning innings..so forget this tbh
KKR is in tricky situation. what a fall for MI. From table toppers now it appears they will be 3rd or 4rth in play offs. At present chennai is strongest to win the cup.
Actually Mumbai have the same points as Chennai currently (they’ve played exactly the same number of matches) and they are second in the table though Chennai have a run rate advantage. Bangalore currently top the list but they have one match less than Mumbai/CHennai. But yes Mumbai have shown some real loss of momentum in recent matches.
Bangalore look like the team in best form and with the momentum.
Chennai the most consistent.
Cannot rule out Mumbai though.
I’ve got a sneaky feeling the champions will be decided by one epic tussle. Malinga Vs. Gayle. At the moment Gayle is in incredible form and Malinga is the best bowler in the tournament by a yardstick. I’d fancy both these teams to beat Chennai.
Momentum swings a lot anyway. I think it only takes two defeats or two wins in a row to consider yourself in good form or out of form. Mumbai Indians are out of form for sure but a couple of wins in their final two games (next against Rajasthan they have got to win since this team is on a massive losing streak) and they will be again back in form. Bangalore have won something like 6 or 7 in a row so they are in prime form but they play Chennai next (I think) which is a big game. The loser of that match will know they have lost to key rival. Just like Mumbai play KKR in their final game which is again a crunch match.
The increase to 10 teams has worked. 4 clear best teams have been identified through this long process unless some last minute surprise by KXI Punjab or Kochi Tuskers. But I think through the performances so far Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai and Kolkatta are the best teams with the best international players and local talent.
Gayle is the best buy and player of the tournament along with Malinga. The stats don’t lie. Gayle is amongst top scorers with strike rate of 200+. Malinga taken more wickets by a far distance. This is the match-up I want to see!
Bangalore team is as fresh as a new team – because no one else gets a chance to bat except gayle, dilshan and kohli and with Gayle bringing down asking rate below 6 within first 3 overs – the rest is a cakewalk and he has done that now in 7 matches! something Ganguly could have done for Pune but he has done a mediocre 32 ball 32 and today – 0….
Enjoying the “gayle”storm ….
Something I had predicted BEFORE he restarted his innings with Bangalore.
The way he was ousted from both KKR and WI —saw it coming…..
Been a bit busy—Not been able to follow this part of IPL…but enjoyed afew gayle and sehwag thrillers esp one over where gayle scored 35 odd runs…..
The players must be fatigued, dead at the end of the day. And the summer heat and humidity. Of course most games are scheduled at 8 p.m. So our cricketers have become performing horses and the jockeys or captains are trying their best to reach the winning posts. Many will burn out and we will be left with ashes. It is funny to watch foreigners or mercenaries taking over while every other thing is blurred out.How much will it matter as to who wins the cup? There are a couple of Indians in every team riding on the likes of experienced outsiders. Meanwhile their families will be counting the money instead of having a regular family life. Cricket has become an industry from being a mere sport. Besides IT slaves, now we have cricket labourers.
this liz hurley saga continues to entertain….
btw recently noticed that the acting “style” of her ex Hugh grant somewhat resembles SRK!!!!
Anyhow, Warne nowadays appears a bit of a walking freako with multiple cosmetic surgeries and “enhancements”.
Find his womanising more noticeable than his cricket….
A real sex addict……..
This is what makes Sachin “inhuman” not the runs he scores in 4 th innings
I will like know how many cricketer present or past or dead can fill the stadium with there presence only??or how many player wherever they goes crowd treat them as there homeboy playing??
There was a time in 90′s when india cricket was about ..sachin is batting or not,because rest of batting was not good enough,once sachin got out people used to switch off there tv as if others don’t count.
Dravid,Ganguly,Shewag,Laxman came very late ,but the entire 90 era..that contain the world greatest bowlers like of courtney walsh,curtly ambrose,waqar younis,wasim akram,allan donald,shaun pollock,glenn mcgrath,shane warne,muttiah muralitharan at there prime best
and sachin avg highest in that era with avg of 58…talk of real greatness
Many came many went still the man is there fightng for last 21 year,many time his own team mate let him down but he never spoken anybody with anger….this makes sachin inhuman.
Shewag,dhoni both started playing cricket watchin sachin only,infact shewag used to copy him in his starting days……and always told sachin as his guru ,that the impact of sachin.
The entire indian team dedicated the 2011 WC win to Sachin not to the country or fans…….that the impact of sachin on the indian team.
He made cricket what it is in india,if sachin was not there today there would not have been any ipl,no auction and offcource no ipl tread with 300 comments.
This makes sachin as “INHUMAN”
But for me the real greatness of sachin is in his eyes,the richest cricketer in history,the cricketer having maximum fans,media coverage is still the same old sachin ,just want to play the game as if he has just debuted.Long Live the Legend.
You know after every great leader or sports person there is always a question after him who ? But there is always someone. Take ex of sachin. OK, as a run getter it may be difficult to catch him,but if someone see the present scinario in popularity MSD is catching up with SRT. In today’s newspeper there are a list of Top 10 Sports person brand in the world and MSD in No 10 (SRT i think is in no 47). Yes..yes these ranking are not the last recognition of someone’s achivments but it shows the trend. In recent years the way MSD went ahead SRT in income, Brand promotion and at some level popularity, it is quite unbeliveble. And all this when sachin is going with his purple patch and form of lifetime. Belive me the youngsters who is following cricket after 2000 in this segment MSD’s is more popular then SRT. This is also happeninf in other sports. Who thought that After Sampras there would be fedrer and then Nadal. I still belive Zinedin Zidan is the best footballer in last 2 decade but now look how messy is playing. In formula 1 there is Sebistian vettel.
there’s a difference between Sampras/Federer and Sachin/Dhoni. In one case it’s about accomplishment, in the other only about popularity as you have yourself pointed out. Don’t think anyone ever asked: after Zidane who? This question is usually raised for real titans or at the most for very strong players within an individual team. Yes it’s a media game to play this story more and more and then set up someone else later. doesn’t mean there is a successor. Where I do agree with you is that because of the media saturation around this whole debate sometimes the distinction between accomplishment and being a media star gets lost. Doesn’t mean though that we have to succumb to it.
@
Dravid,Ganguly,Shewag,Laxman came very late ,but the entire 90 era..that contain the world greatest bowlers like of courtney walsh,curtly ambrose,waqar younis,wasim akram,allan donald,shaun pollock,glenn mcgrath,shane warne,muttiah muralitharan at there prime best
and sachin avg highest in that era with avg of 58…talk of real greatness.
This attitude realy amused me. Why we indian always run after individual greatness in team sport. It is ok in individual game like tennis and boxing but not in cricket. Ok sachin avarages 58 in 90′s but what team india got. Sir don’s greatness not only lies in the 99.94 but also because he led an invinchible side in 1947-48. That is why in my previous comment i said MSD went pass SRT in some fields. He won everything under the son. No 1 test side. WC in 50.50. WC in 20-20. IPL..Champions leauge. You name it MSD got it.
I think both Sachin and Dhoni are media stars besides being accomplished players. Sachin is Indian media’s all time favourite. Just like SRK and SRK from movies. We have to wait and see for 2013 to see any others will emerge for media’s cuddles.
I think it’s a little preposterous to mention Sachin and SRK in the same breath. Sachin’s media profile is proportionate to his achievements and his deep deep roots within the contemporary Indian psyche (which I would argue has been under-represented in the media for a while in some ways). With dhoni it’s the opposite and from relatively early on. Which doesn’t mean he hasn’t done anything. Just no proportionate to his media presence. Sure, these days it’s that way with many folks. We see this with movie stars too. But Sachin isn’t part of this group.
Yes he has NO accomplishments if the comparison is with Sachin! Actually Dhoni has no accomplishments compared with many others also. You don’t have to get upto Sachin.
Dhoni didnt win by himself. Ofcourse he gets a lot of credit for his performance in the finals ans his leadership but comparing him to Sachin is just ridiculous. Dhoni has been an outstanding leader and according to some the best Indian captain ever. And, he belongs to Hall of Fame ( if there were such a thing for cricket).
I sometimes get dismayed with peopledecrying personal greatness and feats in a team sport as at the end of the day a team is made up of INDIVIDUALS. So, it shouldnt come as a surprise that some individuals get celebtrated more than others as their contributions are greater. And, India is not unique in that respect. Again, we have been thru the whole why Sachin is so loved and highly regarded thing before. So, we need not let trolls come here and start the debate all over again.
One has to be somebody. But constant media attention makes the star always to be in the limelight. Media also tries to downplay the achievements of the rivals. It is a dirty game. Media houses also organise and distribute awards and they try their best to award their favourites. This gives birth to hubris and aura.
Actually anyone can be a star. We have in this age (not just in India) people who are huge celebrities without doing anything. The Paris Hilton phenomenon. What this means is that when you have a sports figure he or she can be made ‘bigger’ than the accomplishments would have one believe if he or she can be sold in certain ways.
gayle single handedly props up bangalore…..
so glad—-my prophesies have a knock of coming true…
satyam may recall the one on an india sri lanka final in the wc as well
Another key point in this match was how dhoni again “stepped up” his battig in a key game.
Lately he remains average / indifferent in the initial stages but steps in the pedal when it matters. Hope sachin can also do something for
Mumbai now at THIs stage….
Gayle is a freak ,an extraordinary talent which all sport needs….Its sad Westindies cricket going down with such talent on there hand.Hope WI Cricket make better use of him.
Just for record has smoked 38 six in 9 match….IPL4 will be remembered for gayle show.
Agree Kunal…
I have been saying this BEFORE he strated on this blitzkrieg and landed from WI mdiway thru IPL.
If one scrolls up, the discussions on the “flat track bullies” are laid threadbare….
I am not talking on behalf of sehwag/gayle here ….
The fact of the matter is that being an effective “flat track bully” is NOT an easy task and NOT something that can be acquired easily..
These are the guys who need max nurturing and that is where the coaches, team psychologists etc earn their living…
Also, just skimming thru some of the cumments above that seem to suggest the equivalence of Sachin with the “great” Viv richards.
Just like the other ARR-RDB discussion, i will start another one—
I reject this sort of blurred equivalence and say in no uncertain terms that Sachin is undoubtedly superior overall to viv richards (and he hasnt finished yet)
Sachin has far more layers, gears, subtleties and staying power than the undoubtedly talented great viv richards……..
Infact, I would rate Sachin as an uncanny and consistent balanced mix of Viv Richards AND sunil gavaskar (and maybe something to spare)
I will not call gayle or Shewag as “flat track bully”……..Both of them have scored 300 in test matches vs quality bowling side.They are proven talents.
A perfect example of “flat track bully” is Swapnil Asnodkar from rajastan Royal ,IPL1 fame…scored heavily but found wanting on India A Tours.Now not even active playing member of any IPL Side.
Hope paul valthaty is not another example .He needs to improve his technique a lot to hit top bowlers like mallinga and co.
Watching MI and KKR match, I felt that Gautam Gambhir is the least charismatic captain inspite of his skills. They lost something which was in their hands. Bowler started looking like loser during the last overs. KKR crumbled like kakra. One Priyanka Chopra is enough against thousands of barbie doll like cheer girls. Just cant get enough of her.
It was the idiotic Balaji who cost KKR the match.. bowling full tosses and wide deliveries, and too much of experimentation when all he had to do was ball atraight and discinplined..
and Sachin fails to put up a big score in 2nd innings, yet again!
Tendulkar and Bradman: Beyond the average argument – Part IV
Sachin Tendulkar
India’s Sachin Tendulkar hits a ball during the second day of the second Test against South Africa at Kingsmead Stadium in Durban. (AFP Photo)
Bradman’s comparison with Tendulkar is a facile exercise and Sehwag is the only right parallel. The amount of cricket and mass adulation that blighted the punctuated career of Bradman with mysterious illnesses is the amount Tendulkar plays every five years and God save him if privacy is also one of his concerns. Tendulkar may well hang his boots having played nearly four times the Test cricket that Bradman played and top it up with an unbelievable and equally immense One Day career.
Bradman gave his game away when he came out with that beautiful story from his home in Adelaide. “Sir Donald Bradman was watching a 1996 World Cup match on television when he first saw Sachin Tendulkar bat. The Indian player’s technique seemed strangely familiar. The Australian called his wife into the living room of their suburban Adelaide home. ‘Who does this remind you of?’ asked Bradman, then 87. The answer was obvious. ‘I never saw myself play,’ Bradman said later. ‘But I feel that this player is playing much the same [way] I used to play.’
What is Bradman trying to say here? Is he implying that the average of 99.94 is achieved by playing like this and so the equivalent of that in the modern era is somewhere over 56. You have to completely misunderstand Bradman the man and credulously believe Bradman the legend in order to swallow that.
What is the one line that Bradman could not eradicate from his cricketing life and sits on almost every summary page you read about him: “Though his batting was not classically beautiful, it was always awesome.” If you dig deep it is scattered around his knocks everywhere like clues at a crime scene. Bradman could not have been unaware of it and you can’t give him the benefit of doubt here because there are instances that show how zealously he guarded his legacy.
See this interaction with David Frith. “He once took me to task for writing that he bowled Wally Hammond out with a full-toss at Adelaide in 1933. ‘It was not a full-toss!’ But five or six participants in that Test match, including Hammond himself, had declared it a full-toss. And I discovered – too late – that Don himself had spoken of it as such in his radio summary very soon after the incident. Amazingly, all these years later, he seemed to regard the bowling of a full-toss as a symptom of defective character. I loved him for it.”
Bradman was greedy to the hilt and this comparison he made shows that he wanted all that he could have. Bradman was not elevating Tendulkar, in fact, he was trying to obliterate all anecdotal evidence about himself. Does Tendulkar from any angle look like an unorthodox player without beauty in his stroke play? Bradman was not copybook as far as looking elegant is concerned. Tendulkar is better than copybook and even his wild innovations look beautiful.
Bradman had the average and what he badly needed was a model, so he chose the most-perfect and compact and perhaps the most-beautiful run-getter in the history of the game to serve his purpose. What he meant was that he got his runs at an average of 99.96 playing like Tendulkar does. And someday there would come a time when the last man to have watched him bat would pass away but what will remain forever is the way Tendulkar has got his runs. The Don was trying to perpetrate and preserve a false legacy.
He gave it another tweak and expressed surprise on learning that Tendulkar had been coached, when he had invited the Little Master to his home in Adelaide during end-1990s, as he thought that Tendulkar like himself was a complete natural. So despite watching all his innings for a few years the Don did not bother to check anything about the player he compared to himself and later invited to his home. The life of Bradman shows he was never so casual about anything – especially not about his cricket.
To judge Bradman you have to first see that he has a very small sample and therefore each observation matters as it affects the spread significantly. You have to put aside his average against the minnows South Africa, India and the West Indies and then count the innings where he played at least one world-class bowler. Hardly four or five bowlers who bowled to Bradman stand out in the history of the game.
Don’t underestimate the LBW law as in Bradman’s time you could only be given out if the ball pitched and hit in line with the stumps and then went on to hit them. This automatically rules out the in-swinger, the in-cutter, and the off-spinning deliveries that pitch outside but come in enough to hit in line. This is as potent a weapon for the bowler as the catch or even more as you can pad up to any ball outside off and get away. The batsman also gets the advantage when he is unsure which way the ball would go as he can again pad up and nullify the in-coming as well as the out-going delivery. Bradman was out leg before just six times in his career. The argument that he was so good that he was rarely struck in front of the wicket does not hold as he was bowled 23 times.
Tendulkar has played around two dozen bowlers who can lay a good claim to being in the list of the forty odd all-time best bowlers on wickets suiting them and made hundreds. What was said about Tendulkar during his early years? His maiden effort in Australia at Lismore when he was just 18 didn’t go unnoticed and 1,500 people saw it. “Conditions were grey overhead and green underfoot, which made predicting the ball’s flight path tricky. The bowling was top-shelf-Whitney, Lawson, Holdsworth, Matthews, Waugh, Waugh-and the batting a little gormless, all except for the one who was 18.
Under the Oakes Oval pines he took careful guard, his head still, his footsteps like tiny, precise pinpricks, going backwards mostly, unless the bowler overpitched. Fifteen hundred people saw this, the great Alan Davidson among them. Davo was dumbfounded: “It’s just not possible… such maturity. Tendulkar hit 82 that afternoon, when no one else passed 24, then 59 out of 147 in the second innings.” Christian Ryan wrote.
When Allan Donald first bowled to Tendulkar in an ODI at Eden Gardens he said “that it was blatantly clear that he was going to be a player to remember”. He rated him the number one in his book and said that it is freakish to be so balanced at the crease.
Tendulkar didn’t have an average at 16 when people all across the world were lining up to see him and when Australian journalist Mark Ray was lingering around India’s net sessions during his first trip to watch the boy wonder bat. Neither did Bradman have an average after his first Test but he was picked for the third. Players are not selected on averages and though it has, like net profit for a company, become the gold standard to judge cricketers it is just as misleading as relying on a sole figure to learn about the business of a company. Tendulkar would never equate himself or place himself higher than the Don but then playing oneself down and not even knowing what one has is an unmistakable sign of real greatness.
Frith paid Bradman the ultimate compliment, “Bradman was not one in a million,” he said. “He was much rarer.” Despite a following that runs into thousands of millions, the tribute for Tendulkar is qualitatively-different and the essence of it is wonderfully captured by that Matrix line immortalized by Lana and Andy Wachowski: “He is the One.”
oh man..Hard to belive Bangalore lost this one from such a good position. 19 th over from Aravind changedt the game, and tilted towards Chennai. What a innings from Raina, Morkel and Dhoni.. Glad Bangalore one more chance to make up and get back to finals in the new format now..These teams are playing themselves too often now
yeah Bangalore could have won this.. Chennai looks most likely to win it all but Bangalore with all the momentum they’ve generated recently are placed next best. Mumbai have been poor in the last number of games though they won the thriller the other day. Kolkata are in a similar position though Mumbai’s decline has still been more alarming. Perhaps the home ground helps. In any case Chennai has the advantage of being rested till the Final. I always back Sachin in any situation but if Mumbai lose I wouldn’t mind a Bangalore win at all. Certainly a Southern final would be great in that situation. Unfortunately I cannot back Kolkata in any situation because SRK has threatened to strip if they win it all!
Same here Satyam..I want anybody else to win but a SRK’s team..In way KKR got lucky to enter last 4..Offcourse Mumbai stole a game from them in which KKR had a upper hand for the most part..But if Punjab had won their last match it would have been close call b/n them and KKR for the last 4 berth..Interesting who Bollywood supports tom, SRK or SRT..?
Rajesh, if Punjab would have won the last game than still they would have been out of top 4 due to net run rate. Again as you are on the lines of Satyam, you want any team to win but KKR.
A final between Chennai & Bangalore isn’t about South Indian pride, unfortunately. Chennai can at least lay claim to Badrinath & Ashwin who are genuine game changers, but Bangalore has nothing to show in terms of local talent. Arvind has had a great season for them, but he’s not the primary reason Bangalore are in the playoffs. Or the secondary, tertiary reason either. It took Gambhir, Pathan & Iqbal Abdulla for KKR to qualify. Mumbai has Sachin & Rohit Sharma, but they owe their place to Malinga!
In an ideal world, a city based franchise should win because of local talent and not because of foreign imports.
Well Said Sanket. I completely agree..I was rather sad with RCB when they let go Dravid, Uthappa and did nor retain Kumble although he had a very good IPL 2009..All of them were local favs..But this is becoming more and more like a NBA model. With a limited or no local talent in the team, a city can only boost for their franchaise but not their talent.
Not only Dravid & Uthappa, they had Kumble and Manish Pandey as well. Vijay Mallya is plain lucky that he was gifted the deal of his life, mid IPL, in the form of Gayle. And, Gayle’s never played better in his entire career so far. That’s just what makes T-20 difficult to digest, I guess.
One player can make a difference to the outcome of a tournament. That’s just not fair!
yes but that’s the way teams are structured these days.. specially in the US for example where it would be quite odd to inquire into home-grown talent on any given day. So if the Miami Heat win we don’t particularly care where the players were shopped from. Note how in the WC Spain was supposed to be ‘Barcelona without Messi’. Even in a rather nationalistic tournament that gap was highlighted. And I think something interesting is revealed here. Mass spectator sports started out as being nationalism’s ghostly double but rather quickly the ‘city team’ overtook the ‘national team’. So the true religion for European soccer fans is not the WC (even if because of the scale of the spectacle everyone is thrilled to win it) but ‘local’ league soccer. In the US the extreme logic of this has been played out because all the major sports here rely on the ‘city’ structure. The ‘national’ is meaningless for all of these. Of course in many instances in all sports there are multiple teams in a city which are then divided along ethnic or class lines and so on. But I’m essentially arguing here against the idea that the IPL teams are like the Indian national team. They are not. They represent the ‘city’ structures of European soccer or American baseball/football/basketball (incidentally the ‘city-state’ history of Renaissance Europe finds expression in this way!). Yes even at this level there is always a special fondness reserved for local, home-grown talent but the real signifier if you will is the ‘name’ of the team.
But the US & Europe don’t have a tournament like Ranji Trophy that’s played between local teams. Where do Chennai & Bangalore stand where the local talent counts?
It’s all about perspective, isn’t it? I’d feel odd about supporting RCB, knowing fully well that a Jamaican is the root cause behind my team’s (Bangalore’s) success.
Yes but this is the IPL not the Ranjhi trophy! and every US sports competition is like the former, not like the latter. Just as the Champions League (soccer) for example is also the same. Or for that think of English country cricket specially once upon a time when they had star players from WI or India or Pakistan! The only ‘rules’ that are still held dear in many of these instances are that the most iconic players on a team (which does not necessarily mean home-grown ones) not migrate to other teams. In other words Sachin playing for Bangalore would be very odd. Or in a lesser example LeBron going from Cleveland to Miami was considered a betrayal of sorts.
Again to reiterate, how does a “city” winning a competition give fans bragging rights when there’s little or no local talent involved? It’s a bit like the argument that most people make when they say that a film should be good because it’s been successful at the Box Office!
Hey, it’s a great moment for Bangalore or Kolkata or whoever because they have had great success through foreign imports?! If it doesn’t matter how you win, then surely it shouldn’t matter how good or bad a film is, as long as it’s successful?
But using that argument Saket no fan of any American team should be proud of its stars because most of the time they come from elsewhere! what you’re missing is the fact that the ‘sign’ of the team cancels out these more parochial issues. When Messi plays with barcelona he is as much of that team as the ‘native’ talent and is celebrated as such. The fans then are proud of the ‘name’ of the team. Obviously there is always most affection for the ‘local boy’ but this doesn’t cancel out the larger concern that the team should win. Couldn’t one take it a step further? No Tamiilian should celebrate an Indian victory if there is no Tamilian on the team! Because if the sign of the ‘city’ or ‘state’ cannot overcome these parochial concerns why should the ‘national’ similarly overcome ‘states’ and ‘cities’. So the Gujarati shouldn’t be proud of the Indian team if no Gujarati is playing on it!
I fear that in the matter of Chennai there is a certain Dhoni-Raina (Northern) axis that’s unconsciously guiding the discussion on your side. the IPL has foreign players from all over the world. Why is it different with these two ‘Indians’?!
Even in American sport, who’s the face of the Yankees? A-Rod or Jeter?
And the Indian team isn’t called CSK, RCB, KKR or whatever. If a regional-minded person doesn’t support the Indian team because of the absence of his regional team’s players, then that’s a different can of worms.
RE:I fear that in the matter of Chennai there is a certain Dhoni-Raina (Northern) axis that’s unconsciously guiding the discussion on your side.
That’s totally below the belt. I should really withdraw from the debate after such charges get thrown about, but still, I’m only speaking, IMO, the uncluttered, unsugared truth. Raina has scored more runs than anyone else in all the 4 IPLs combined at a SR close to 140. Dhoni’s been a great leader. It should be obvious to see how they have both contributed to CSK’s campaigns so far!
The point about South Indian pride is also applicable to KKR (and I mentioned previously that KKR has reached the playoffs because of Gambhir, Pathan & Abdulla, not because of local players) and also Mumbai.
The foremost aim, one that seems to be lost now, of the IPL was to harness local talent. It’s STILL mandatory for each franchise to take 4 players from their catchment areas. Whether they play them or not is a different thing. But the larger point remains, if you are winning because you made a better bid during the auctions, then what’s the big deal about that?
It wasn’t meant to be below the belt Saket. I just don’t see what’s exceptional about Raina/Dhoni being the key players for Chennai?
On A-Rod/jeter this actually proves my point a different way. Jeter is an instance of a player who has only played on the Yankees since day 1 and who won a title in the year of his debut. So he acquired an iconic significance right away. And I have already stated that there is that extra bit of affection for the ‘local boy’. But when A-Rod was coming to NY there was enormous excitement over this deal. No one cared where he was coming from as long as he was making it to NY. My objection to your highlighting of Dhoni/Raina is simply this. Let’s account for all the key ‘out of state’ and/or foreign players who are very integral parts of their team. Why are you only pointing out Chennai? My initial statement was simple — that I wouldn’t mind an all-Southern final at all. I don’t think this statement is exceptional in any way.
As for the national team the point I made is exactly analogous. And it is in fact rooted in your very point. If city or state lines are ‘absolute’ which is why Dhoni-Raina playing for Chennai is an asterisk always to be attached to the team doesn’t this deconstruct the very ‘national’ that you are otherwise celebrating? if Dhoni is never ‘convincing’ as a representative of the Chennai team how can he then represent Chennai equally (or as much as Bihar) when he plays for the Indian team? So my objection is implicit in your very framing!
Also it’s rather strange to object to the rules of the IPL this late in the day. yes players are bought and sold, The ones with the most cash get the heavy-weights, so on and so forth. Yes there is a minimal rule for having local talent, all that is fine. But why is this exceptional? It doesn’t apply only to Chennai does it?
So I’m just not getting the more ‘universal’ basis of your objection. You know I ran into folks around the time of the WC who were supporting Spain and when I asked why they said it wasn’t about Spain but about Barcelona. You might consider the ‘national’ to be the ultimate marker but this isn’t so. We see this even at the level of pure politics. The enormous faultline between Northern and Southern Italy, between Northern and Southern Germany, so on and so forth.
And again it wasn’t below the belt because I’m not accusing you of being anti-Southern or anything. It’s an unconscious thing where one finds Dhoni as Chennai’s star to be a little odd. I just find the terms of the objection strange. If you want to object to the IPL overall that’s fine but then it isn’t just about Chennai. So your ‘cluttered’, ‘unsugared’ truth is irrelevant to this debate. Either you have out of state players or you don’t. If you do you can’t introduce this further condition that the locals always do more than the ‘outsiders’! if it is apply it to everyone else. And I hate to inform you but the league you have in mind isn’t what the IPL is!
If Chennai win it all the fans of that team should sit at home glum because Raina/Dhoni are more responsible for the victory than anything else?!
Was it really neccessary tp remind us of that ugly threat?
The guy really has lost his grip on reality. Is there anyone there who wants to see those spindly things he thinks is a six-pack? Soon, he will be threatening to reveal his ander ki aurat! I dont find Ms Pandey particularly attractive but if I had to choose at gun point, she would be a hands down winner.
I hope KKR wins. I just want to see whether SRK has the nerve to exhibit himself like that.
About local talent. Bangalore has not that much of a mindblowing local talents to boast of as of now.
For me it should be either RCB or KKR. Though I love Dhoni and SRT.
Bowlers may win or lose the game for their teams. and take most of the blame. The ultimate hero always is the batsman. Atleast in India. Or can we call him Batman?
Satyam, you not backing KKR is because of SRK and we all know that. Just because it is owned by SRK, you will pray for its loss. Anyways, thats pessimism at its best.
And Virat’s show. Unfortunately the last over makes the bowlers look bad in case they lose. The batsmen have nothing to lose and so they can take risks. It is the do or die situation for them. And the bowler has to face those wreckless and adventurous batsmen. A very unenviable situation to be in. Hope better luck next time for the RCB.
Bangalore owes its place in the playoffs to Gayle’s stupendous form. If he doesn’t perform they are stuffed. Mumbai depends too much on Malinga. If he doesn’t perform, they are stuffed too. KKR has been up and down, and they too depend on key players. Mainly Iqbal Abdulla, who’s been a real find. He’ll turn the ball square tomorrow in Mumbai, that’s for sure.
The key for KKR lies in how Balaji recovers from the previous game. If he’s picked, it’ll be interesting to see how he bowls on a wicket that’s not ideal for medium fast bowling. Brett Lee’s been good in this IPL without taking wickets. Mumbai doesn’t have any spinners in their ranks and no, I’m not forgetting Harbhajan. Basically, Mumbai Indian supporters should just pray that Malinga delivers again. If they can get Kallis cheaply, the match could turn in their favor.
A lot has been said about poor Balaji and his last over against MI. Granted, the final ball had ‘hit me’ written all over it, but 3 out of the other 4s were edges in the slip cordon, including one over the keeper’s head. The single that he gave was a good ball. Even the one genuine 4 that Franklin hit was on a wide angling delivery outside off. So basically, Balaji bowled 5 good balls in the over and one really bad one. On another day, he would have given away just 11 runs off the over! #Perspective
Having said that, Gambhir’s decision to give him the final over was not a great choice. He had Ryan Tendoeschate who has a lot of experience in T20s at his disposal. Balaji had already been hit for runs in his previous overs and it looked like it just wasn’t his day.
The other point to emerge out of that game (and today’s) is that how difficult it is to bowl the death overs against left handers. In Sunday’s game, Franklin scored bulk of the runs in the death overs and today, it was Raina & Morkel. If left-handed bowlers are worth their weight in gold, left handed batsmen should be worth Platinum!
Dhoni/Raina are considered honorary Tamilians. Bollinger, Morkel & Hussey are on probation & will be cleared soon. Who knows they could even reach the invincibility that Hayden or Murali had. Even today CSK fans dominate Hayden FB page.
Even the coaching staff Fleming & Steve Rixon both enjoy such privileges.
Most importantly we have Ashwin/Badri/Vijay – homegrown talent. All developed & attuned with Dhoni-esque temperament. That winner’s mentality is biggest achievement of Fleming-Dhoni legacy. Expect more & more talents in near future. Abhinav Mukund, G. Vignesh (although would be another old bloomer like Badri) to name two.
Sorry, take away Dhoni & Raina and CSK would struggle to finish in the bottom half. Murali Vijay is a joke. Had one great season and since then has fallen into a neverending downward spiral.
Badri is a class player and so is Ashwin. These are the only two home-grown talents in CSK.
He has scored an important test century against Australia, the partnership with Sachin won us the game. Had many good opening partnerships with Viru against Lankans. Let’s not forget he was one of the three MVPs to help CSK win Champions league in South Africa. But had major slump for India in South African tour. He’s out of favor after that. Deservedly. I have seen signs of him regaining form this season. So don’t count him out. Got classy shots for every possible delivery.
WSS is praising Dhoni & Raina. It is true that they both have been accepted in TN as their foster sons.
CSK isnt abt 2 men.
Look at the batting lineup:
Raina/Hussey – 430 runs
Badri – 400
Dhoni – 375
Vijay – 340
Morkel, Saha, Anirudha (another homegrown player) came good when team needed them.
That’s why Chennai couldn’t be caught by Law of Averages. You just have to hope 4 or 5 players have bad day at office or 1 or 2 in the opposition play a blinder.
Don’t think Vijay’s got “classy” shots for all deliveries. His default frontal movement is a big no-no against genuine quicks. And it’s no surprise that he’s struggled against them. But to add to his own woes, he’s struggled against spin too, in this IPL. He’s added a few kilos since the last IPL, so I don’t think he’s going anywhere to be honest. His SR is a respectable but unspectacular 118 this season, but his average is 22! In fact, because of Vijay’s performance (or non-performance) this season, Chennai has had to lose some key games while chasing. The one against Mumbai comes to mind. His India career is all but over at this point.
And regarding Dhoni’s influence, one has to look back at last year’s IPL when he was out due to an injury. CSK lost 3 out of 4 games and Dhoni had to rush back a match ahead of his scheduled arrival. Face it CSK fans, the team’s not worth much without Dhoni/Raina.
What makes CSK lethal is one man, and that’s MSD. Take him away, and the team’s got nothing over others. The same Vijays and Co. will falter under anyone else’s leadership
Absolutely. Dhoni is a leader par excellence. Whatever reservations I had are completely gone. One cant praise the man enough. He is a true leader and makes complete difference.
Oh NO..Mumabi is making a mess of this small total after a great start..Are we heading for another close finish..Praying Mumabi does it without any further drama.
I’m kinda neutral. I don’t like KKR but I like Gambhir. But speaking about this game only, 147 is under par at the Wankhede. A team’s got to play extraordinarily well to defend that score.
Cannot take anything for granted. This is 20-20 cricket. Sounds easy but it is not.
Congrats MI.
FOR PEOPLE TRYING TO PISSON SACHIN’S PARADE, TOO BAD.
They will have to wait another day.
Mumbai made it today but it wasn’t totally convincing. I will say they’ve won two games in a row now and have certainly arrested their losing streak before this but they’ll have to play a lot better against Bangalore given the current form of the latter.
Statement of the day:
Kowshik: “What is IPL ? It is a competition where 9 teams will play hard to reach the finals to play against Chennai Super Kings!”
You are greatly mistaken. I’m NOT only pointing fingers at Chennai. I’m pointing fingers at every single franchise that has entered the playoffs based on the performances of foreign imports.
And in reply to your original statement that you “wouldn’t mind an all-Southern final at all,” I just replied that it’s not a matter of pride for Southern cities if they’ve made it so far based on foreign imports.
>>if Dhoni is never ‘convincing’ as a representative of the Chennai team how can he then represent Chennai equally (or as much as Bihar) when he plays for the Indian team? So my objection is implicit in your very framing!”
Dhoni does not represent Chennai because he never played his cricket for Chennai or Tamil Nadu. Similarly Raina played all his cricket for UP before making it to the national squad. How can they be called “local” players by any stretch of imagination?
>>Also it’s rather strange to object to the rules of the IPL this late in the day. yes players are bought and sold, The ones with the most cash get the heavy-weights, so on and so forth. Yes there is a minimal rule for having local talent, all that is fine. But why is this exceptional? It doesn’t apply only to Chennai does it?
Again Chennai? Why don’t you re-read my messages where I’ve objected to KKR’s success or RCB’s for that matter?
But your objection then is to the very format of the IPL. You don’t consider it legitimate to have ‘foreign’ (which in your books is out of city, out of state, out of country equally!) talents. In other words if Chennai wins Tamilians should hide their faces in shame because the ‘local’ talent didn’t get it done! There certainly wouldn’t be anything to celebrate! You should really be boycotting the IPL!
of course you would also have to boycott much of football in Europe or all American team sports and so on. Because if one disses the IPL one has to exclude these too. Doesn’t Messi without losing his native identity contribute as much to Barcelona’s wins as the ‘local’ players? Or are there asterisks against all those results? Do we tell people in Bombay not to be proud of many of their actresses because many of them are from the South and not primarily ‘Hindi’ speakers in many instances?
But notice the logic you’re inadvertently subscribing too. Depending on the situation immigrants to various countries can never be like the ‘locals’. In other words a child who came to the US or the UK at the age of 10, became a citizen and so on could never really represent the country as fully as someone who was born there and had ancestry to boast. If such a child then represented England in cricket or the US in the Davis Cup his (or her) contributions would carry an asterisk. Which is of course the way ‘politics’ often works but that isn’t the ‘ideal’ espoused by the US or the UK (to stick with this example). Now in your example you’d say it’s fine if Dhoni actually grows up in Chennai and then plays for the team. But why this ‘test’ to represent a team? Whether you become a UK citizen at the age of 50 or at the age of 1 you still have the same right to represent the country. Politics might often not allow this but the law does. In some instances there is a ‘birth’ requirement to hold certain offices. I actually find this wrong too.
and to repeat you are not assigning enough important to the historical experience of team sports where ultimately the ‘sign’ of the team trumps all. Barcelona fans don’t like their goals less when Messi scores them!
Barca fans should disown their success to Argentine fans coz it’s all down to Messi. Dallas have no proprietary over Mavericks success coz it’s all down to Nowitzki. So the bragging rights belong to Germany. Strange. The main reason to from such franchise competition is to transcend geographical barriers.
Forget most crowds. The loudest cheer in Chepauk is still reserved for Sachin. Few decibels higher than Dhoni! And one can see a large number of Chennai people (I’m not from Chennai FYI) supporting MI & Sachin. You will see that on Friday night game. Pity that Bombay crowd didn’t come out to watch CSK match, leave alone supporting a world cup winning captain.
That hardly argues against what I’m saying. And I’ve made an allowance for this. But it’s the same logic at work. when it’s the national team people don’t care whether the Bihari gets the runs or the Tamilian the wickets! People who entertain all kinds of native prejudices nonetheless leave them behind when it’s about the team winning. It is still the ‘sign’ of the team that dominates. In one instance it’s given a ‘national’ configuration, in another case a ‘city’ or ‘state’ one. There is absolutely no contradiction between the two because in each case the ‘name’ re-configures reality. So Barcelona fans support Messi when he’s on their team but wouldn’t support him against Spain. Of course this too is simplistic, the two ‘signs’ Messi operates under introduces a degree of ambivalence for Barcelona fans who might be very emotionally invested in him in one arena and not the other but this doesn’t defeat the overall point I’m making. City and state differences can be suspended in a ‘national’ team. Similarly so in a city team. In fact here even national differences can be suspended (Gayle or Malinga or whoever playing for the IPL).
I think you’re completely missing the significance of the ‘sports club’ which can never simply be equated with geographical realities.
So does the Box Office. Now can you repeat after me, SRK’s better than Abhishek Bachchan? It shouldn’t matter how SRK or anyone else gets those hits, ultimately the hits count! Why even analyze the genre of movies that someoen stars in, when the ultimate barometer is the Box office?
This is strange because you take great pains to point out that films go beyond the Box Office. But franchises should only be judged based on their results? In other words, no one else is allowed to even look into those results carefully by spotting the absence/presence of local talent. In response, you are told that it’s the norm everywhere else.
>>In other words if Chennai wins Tamilians should hide their faces in shame because the ‘local’ talent didn’t get it done!
LOL, this is a great way to twist someone’s words. In fact, this is a ‘political’ retort. No one should hide their faces in shame, but at the same time, one should also try to put things in perspective. Your franchise owner made some smart choices during the auction process, those ‘smart’ choices resulted in a win. That’s great, but it would have been better had there been more local players contributing to the big win. That’s how I feel.
Not at all sure what the logical connection between the box office and the worth of an actor (or a film) can be made with the argument at hand? Honestly quite stunned that you’re juxtaposing the two. The better re-framing of your argument in movie terms would have been ‘does it matter to the gross of a Hindi film that Hema Malini or Sridevi were Tamilians?’ I think we know the answer! Neither one grew up in Bombay. Sridevi even had a long career in the South. No one said Nagina didn’t count as a Hindi film because Sridevi didn’t even know enough Hindi to dub for it and therefore it’s ‘gross’ was illegitimate!
For the Sridevi/Dhoni analogy to be correct, Sridevi would have to be an international celebrity before joining Bollywood. Dhoni did not earn his Indian cap by playing for Chennai. He earned CSK’s pole position by virtue of his national identity. There’s a huge difference.
When RCB reached the finals of the IPL in 2009, they had 4 ‘local’ players contributing majorly to the team’s cause. Dravid, Kumble, Manish Pandey and to a lesser extent, Uthappa. They were bigger contributors than their contingent of foreign players. That’s always nice to see! The whole of Chennai can lay claim on Dhoni, but the fact of the matter is, he did NOT play his first class cricket in Chennai or Tamil Nadu. Ergo, he isn’t a local player as Badrinath or Ashwin.
Saket I just don’t think the tournament is set up in the way you would like it to be. There is hardly any local anymore in most front line sports. Look at the EPL. It’s not local at all. People identify with clubs – it is nice when the club promotes youth and it works but you’d be foolish to think when big bucks and corporates are involved that they would “care” much about this.
Sridevi was a big star in the South before coming to Bombay! Being international has nothing to do with it. It is exactly the Dhoni/Chennai analogy (cricket just involves being internationally known, there’s nothing specific to Dhoni’s achievement that makes him international.. every player on a national team is know internationally!). Unlike hema Malini she was very entrenched in the South before coming to Bombay. So it wasn’t even a Southern actress getting a real break in Bombay.
Saket,
True. But that’s the whole point of IPL. Now there are countless delirious fans of Dhoni in Chennai. IPL gives these fans to lay claim on the man as their pin-up star.
How about this analogy, you’re telling Hindi cinema to stop cheering on Rahman winning an Academy award because it exclusively belongs to Tamil cinema only!
Yes, I very well understand that it’s not in the franchise owner’s interest to “promote” local talent, at the cost of the trophy. If the franchises had their way, they’d even get rid of the max. 4 foreign player clause.
I fully understand that part. But, at the same time, a few odd people like me, watch the IPL in the hope of discovering some hidden “local” talent. That’s one of the big reasons why I watch the IPL: to see unknown players perform.
I’m not interested ultimately in who wins the race (I’d like CSK to win, quite honestly), but to see my favorite players perform. And to see players like Paul Valthaty, Rahul Sharma, Iqbal Abdulla, Badrinath etc outperform the foreign players in their respective franchises, for me, is a great delight.
But then, there’s also the spectacle (quite ugly, in my view) of fans supporting their teams without caring about their own local players comiing through. If RCB wins because of Gayle, Vijay Mallya will be more inclined to buy another foreign player for a few million dollars, instead of hunting for local talent. If, however, Iqbal Abdulla like performances come from his catchment area, he’d be more inclined to hunt for more such local talent. The latter, ultimately benefits Indian cricket.
Saket, the “local” thing is overated when the fans of those local teams cheer for Tendulkar when he comes out to bat! I just don’t think people care that much! To see players like Valthaty, Sharma etc perform is good but I don’t think it matters too much if they are from the area. The fact that they are performing well is all that matters.
50 years ago sport was local. Now some Londoner is born supporting Manchester United because they are successful. Or some Chinese dude! The ideals behind supporting local talent are nice, but in practise money dictates these sports now and winning, brand power, revenue is way more important. I am not arguing this is “right” just that this is the way it is.
WSS, I’m not asking Indian fans to stop cheering for Rahman. Neither am I asking CSK fans to stop cheering for Dhoni.
Perhaps it’s early years for the IPL, but I find it strange that Gambhir, who has played his entire cricket for Delhi, is now going to be considered a ‘local’ boy in Kolkata. That’s the franchise model, yes. But when KKR has only ONE local player (Manoj Tiwary, who for Satyam’s sake, is a Bihari, who played his cricket in Bengal and therefore is a local player, in the real sense of the term), conributing to the team’s passage to the final, whereas even the Indian contingent is from elsewhere (Gambhir, Bhatia – Delhi; Balaji – Chennai, Iqbal Abdulla – Mumbai, Yusuf Pathan – Gujarat/Baroda), the victory seems a bit hollow.
Saket, the point I’m trying to make is that the purely local has long ago been canceled out by the corporatization of sport as Jay points out. But also that this move reflects a political reality always embedded in the project of the nation-state. A certain fluidity if you will. In certain contexts one is ‘Indian’, in certain others one is a Mumbaikar or what have you. And what I am arguing here is that the latter is not simply a subset of the former. It is so only in certain other contexts whereas in certain others it works in a way so as to cancel out the former. Put differently it is sometimes a subset but at other times only an alternate set with common elements (or an overlapping set). So for example as long as it’s about defending England people in other countries would be more hard-pressed to do so (beyond in a purely relative sense.. so for example in an Aus-Eng match I might prefer the latter to win without being deeply invested in Eng) but when it’s about Man United then suddenly you get fanatical fans even in India.
“So for example as long as it’s about defending England people in other countries would be more hard-pressed to do so (beyond in a purely relative sense.. so for example in an Aus-Eng match I might prefer the latter to win without being deeply invested in Eng) but when it’s about Man United then suddenly you get fanatical fans even in India.”
Agree with this. Because being a supporter of Man Utd does not impose “national” loyalty or anything of that sort…being an Indian in India and supporting Man Utd is not seen as disloyalty to Indian teams. Maybe that is because India has not a vested interest in football as such and structural has not produced a team to international status. It essentially boils down to popularity of sport. EPL is a globally followed football league and with such media coverage people natually become 1) interested in the game 2) eventually side or affiliate with a team. India does not possess such powerful local franchises so more often than not fans are just interested in the sport and not the success or failure of a team. I don’t really think fans agonise or celebrate a victory in the IPL like a national game. Where as in England fans would for both club and national game in football; but in cricket they would be similar to India. The branding and franchise of local cricket across the globe is no longer what it use to be. County cricket use to fill stadiums. No longer does.
Even city rivalries in football have become overated. It is now about money, owners and success. Success is a rival or spending power. Abu Dhabi owning Man City immediately elevates a rivalry or Chelsea with Man Utd. The money aspect has superceded what already was a local rivalry between the two Manchester clubs.
Sachin does his share but I wish he had hung around a bit longer to finish off the job. It is like he tantalises his detractors by giving them just a little bit to bite on. May be he is just having a little bit of mercy.
The last match winning century he scored in second innings was in 2008 against Asutralia, where he made 117 not out and Indian won the match.
Prior to that, it was back in 2001 when he made 122 not out against West Indies in second innings, leading India to victory.
Match winning centuries are not always played in the fourht innings.
Do some more research and you might get closer to the elusive truth instead of flauting your lack of understading of the game.
I think he’s talking about ODIs. But if India loses when Sachin scores 175, ANY ONE will see that it’s not his fault! And he did score 175 against Australia while chasing 350!
Yeah, that was a one-man show from India and had they won that day, it would’ve counted amongst the greatest knocks in cricket – in all versions of the game
wow..Good job MI..
KKR lost…ye ye..At last my wish is granted..
I wanted to Andy Murray to win a grand slam..That DID NOT HAPPEN..
Wanted Brazil to win WC Soccer..That DID NOT HAPPEN..
Wanted Kobe to get his sixth ring/LAKERS win..THAT DID NOT HAPPEN..
Wanted Lebron to loose/Miami to loose..THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN NOW..
Wanted DMD to be Super-Hit..THAT WAS NOT MADE TO HAPPEN..
Wanted KKR not to enter last 4…THAT DID NOT HAPPEN..
Wanted KKR to loose out to MI…THAT DID HAPPEN..
Thank u ..Thank u..Now I don’t care who wins IPL-2011 although I’am from B’lore..
NOW my last wish of the year..WANT Ra1 to NOT TO GROSS 100 cr ..
I actually don’t think there’s anything wrong in wanting a film to flop if one doesn’t support the star and/or the overall film. Exceptions can be made for films like Swades where one can say it’s meaningful film and so on. Surely Ra 1 cannot really surprise anyone on this score?! It might be very entertaining and so on but it’s not a ‘moral’ responsibility to support such a film. And no I cannot say I pray indiscriminately for everyone’s success!
Tonymontana,
I agree, one should not pray for others failure..But when it comes to SRK..I just cannot stand his Ego, attitude, showmanship and politics he plays in BW and his agenda against the Bachchans..So my last sentence came out from his dislike..BTW, I did like him very much till 2004 DDLJ and Swades are one of my favs even today..But the day he decided to do KBC-3, Don remake, and his many interviews where he showed his attitude and disrespect to Amitiji my perceptions on him changed..And it’s this just ME..And I’am OK with it…And BTW in sports when we pray for your teams success, you indirectly are praying for the opponents teams failure too
Rajesh, I can see where you’re coming from. It’s a distinction I too have tried to make over the years whether it’s SRK or Johar or whoever. I dislike the politics and it is this that I’m battling. Otherwise there is far more to worry about in life. For example I have always disliked Salman but because I don’t have an issue with his politics I am quite indifferent to whether his films work or not. More recently though I’ve wanted him to be successful inasmuch as he’s attempted a masala makeover. Or let me rephrase that, some of his escapades seem inexcusable but those are just about personal behavior. With SRK or Johar there are structural issues, a vast ideological apparatus deployed that has to be contested at every turn. And for people who don’t understand this here’s an example. When I was growing up people my age would not watch older films, they would consider them boring or not be able to relate to them in any way whatsoever. This happens with every generation. We have to learn how to engage with the past. It doesn’t just happen naturally. Much as those who are older also have to adapt and learn how to engage with the present. This doesn’t mean everything is equal, some ages (in terms of their creative output) are better or worse than others but one has to be ‘open’ to the learning process implicated either way. In any case those older films were found boring and that was the end of it. But note what happens today with the ‘Bollywood’ view of the world exemplified by Johar and SRK. They first of all have a very limited understanding of the history, they are mostly illiterate in this matter, they’ve seen a few films here and there that probably everyone has beside the ones they’ve seen growing up as again everyone does. But they nonetheless try and deconstruct those aspects of the history that does not serve their ideological ends. so they pretend that once upon a time films were not as refined or as sophisticated, they have this bemused attitude when they discuss older films, so on and so forth. It is not just what they explicitly say but also what they keep implying. Now clearly they display a terrible anxiety with respect to the heritage (which in one word for them is ‘Amitabh Bachchan’.. they’re obviously not anxious about Raj Kapoor!) and one can get into the reasons but the important point is that they attempt these historical accounts from time to time where the past is always made reductive. Superficially they always talk about the very history that they otherwise deconstruct in polite and reverential ways and even do so in exaggerated fashion (which by the way is also an index of their insincerity). To wit someone like Johar more or less feels someone like Jeetendra is a loser who hung around for as long as he did because audiences in those days were losers too! This sounds harsh but is completely true. This doesn’t mean that I consider Jeetendra a fine star or actor but I have some respect for a guy who could hang around as long as he did but more crucially if I ‘diss’ him as an actor or star there is no larger ideological operation to it. And as a matter of fact I love many of his contemporaries. But with the likes of Johar and SRK every single star is treated like Jeetendra. Barring Bachchan who then becomes the exception to the system. But even here Johar had the rather childish aim (which unfortunately Bachchan went along with) of throwing Bachchan into films with SRK where if you look closely one star is being deconstructed at the expense of the other. Now the audience might not have always seen it this way and sometimes the opposite result might have been achieved but this was in any case the aim. Much as Johar cannot stop shouting from the rooftops that SRK is a superstar or a legend or whatever. If he really were everything Johar likes to think he is everyone would be saying it and Johar wouldn’t need to so much! SRK once said in an interview that “they used to make strange films in the 80s.” How would I put it? That the 80s were poor compared to the 70s but that there were still some very good films made in this decade even if the average film was definitely quite poor. Of course SRK doesn’t want to say the rest here. And by indulging in this sort of vocabulary that deconstruction comes into play. The guy who’s best known for doing films like KKHH which more or less had the maturity (even the props on occasion!) of Saved by the Bell might not be best placed to call the 80s ‘strange’! Sure he’s also said he’s never liked or believed in his love stories. But that’s a far less damaging statement. He did not say he didn’t like the 80s. He said the films were ‘strange’ as if it’s an objective fact. Now I could keep multiplying these examples but this was (and is) the modus operandi of Johar and SRK (not necessarily just these two). The same attitude was also exhibited with most of their peers specially at awards shows where even if the SRK fans pretended not to notice there is a difference between harmless humor and one that constantly tries to deconstruct the other. And to further this agenda a whole media apparatus was deployed, using compromise and corruption. On and on. All of this was an ideological project through and through. And this is what I too have battled over the years. Otherwise I wouldn’t just be bothered by the films. Because there are certain genres in every era I don’t like. There was always a much larger project these guys had. The developments of the last decade have in many ways overtaken them. SRK now has to do Don sequels and jump around in superhero suits (not how even with the remakes there is always that implicit sense that the older film is being ‘refined’). It’s hardly showtime (read Filmfare parties) anymore! So now SRK plays the Anil Kapoor card — hey I’m a legend, no one can be compared with me, I am beyond the numbers game, so on and so forth. This lasts for a while before history overtakes one even here. The thing is no star can conquer time and age. But a great star can reinvent himself or be relevant in a completely different environment. This rarely happens. But either way the use of propaganda was always huge with SRK and Johar and the entire system they set up. Which is why when people keep saying ‘he’s smart’ this too first of all has to be read in ideological terms (what’s so extraordinarily smart about his film choices, he kept doing what worked?! And if using propaganda to further an ideological end is smart well every totalitarian figure is very smart too!) but this ‘excuse’ too came up at a certain time. When he was more challenged by others (Aamir, Hrithik and so on). In the media and online many who either had the same ideological orientation or who found it useful to be this way advanced this narrative quite consistently. SRK fans are as a group simply the most overtly ideological ones (which doesn’t mean every single one, I too was a SRK fan once!). This is obvious in any number of ways. It is all of this that one battles.
Thanks a lot Satyam..I completely agree with your views..I’am rather sad that Amitji is not able to identify the agenda of Johar.He still seems to maintain him in close quarters..And SRK who did not like 80′s ended up making ‘OSO’ which he said was a tribute to that period….But not even a reference to greatest star of that ERA in that movie.
Sometimes I’m not sure whether it’s better for Ra 1 to score 100 crores from India or not. Because I’m a little worried about the MNIK deal where it didn’t do too much in India which is why we were then treated to week 8 numbers from Indonesia and week 14 numbers from Luxembourg.
No.. one series of good scores wont make Gambhir my favourite..
Rahul Dravid in tests and Sachin Tendulkar in ODIs..
Have enjoyed watching Jayasuriya, Gilchrist, De Silva, Lara, Bevan, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, and Andy Flower too.
Ive grown up, watching Sachin’s cricket. but facts are facts.
Im not saying that SRT has turned out to be a mediocre player in the later part of his career.. As rajen mentioned, he’s still miles ahead than the rest. Its just that he isnt a one-man show any longer; you could attribute this to the Indian team getting stronger or to Tendulkar making a major difference to his style of play.
Its also true that cricket-crazy, more of Sachin-crazy fans these days expect him to make a century every time he comes to bat. Whether India loses or wins is secondary to many of them. And this is what Tendulkar’s cricket has been reduced to most of us.
Truth be told, someone must tell them that his centuries are not a big deal and are secondary to India’s winning. I say again, Tendulkar’s not at fault here
Agree.
Some of us are guilty of sometimes thinking Sachin’s success is the most important thing in Indain cricket.
We forget the fact fact it is the ONLY thing!
Sachin has scored 513 runs in IPL 2011 @ strike rate of 111. It’s a fairly low strike rate but he has assumed the role of anchoring the innings. Plus in some low run chases early in the tournament he just made sure of victory then blitzing. He is the 3rd highest scorer in the tournament and in with a shout of scoring most runs.
In IPL 2010 he scored the MOST runs in the IPL 618 @ 133 strike rate.
The guy is 38. And still scores more runs then most. In a team this year where the middle order has pretty much desserted him (Symonds, Pollard pretty poor, Sharma inconsistent).
He is no Raina or Gayle or Sehwag in this format. Granted he won’t score at 180 strike rate. But its not his role in a side which comprises of Pollard or Symonds or Jacobs or Blizzard. To assess a players value to the team you’ve got to assess the strengths and weaknesses of all the team. Without Tendulkar and Malinga this Mumbai team would be pretty much third rate in the tournament.
Arguments against Tendulkar are counter productive. On the one hand all kinds of scenarios and stats are used “against” him to diminish his stature, to reduce him to a normal player. But such standards should not be applied to a normal player in the first place! It would be like critisising Sehwag for not scoring at 100 strike rate the next time he scores a test century. Or critising Malinga for bowling a wide in trying to execute a yorker. Compare against the rest, not the standard set by the person. Tendulkar would still today walk into the Indian ODI or test team or ANY team in the world – literally walk in. Any stats from the last 2 years will clear that argument up in no time – that too at the age of 38 after a career spanning 20 years. Most cricketers are past it, literally by this age. Tendulkar can not only still bat, he can still perform to high standard and take bowlers apart. He is maybe just more choosy about it then when he was 22.
Agreed, for the most part. But I’d like to add that Malinga is the sole reason why MI find themselves in the playoffs. The #2 reason is their ground fielding. It’s been outstanding all season.
Honestly speaking, none of my laptop movie collection includes an SRK film. Coz the latter are of the enjoy n forget variety with no repeat value as such, unless you talk about a Baadshah or a Kabhi haan kabhi naa, the former more for its wacky sense of fun.
Well, if this is not his best, it is miles better than the best of those in their prime supposed to challenge his supremacy.
One thing common to SRK fans and Sachin detractors ( surprising how they often go hand in hand) is they are never fazed by truth. It is a minor inconvinience that they dont let get in way of their pursuit of their agenda.
Logic is another victim.
I am running out of benevolence and pity for these guys.
weirdly there’s not a cricket expert who agrees with you specially given his performance over the last couple of years. Interesting this kind of criterion represents in some ways the ‘Americanization’ of cricket because there are certain kinds of stats that have erupted as well as certain questions raised about the game and its players that were never traditionally asked. I won’t even get into the debate of just how complicated settling such a question in cricket is.
Have to admit, the more I trash Harbhajan, the more I taste my foot, every so often. Guess have to concede he is a “big moment” player. Plays well when the stakes are high etc. Did well in the semis in the WC and today, in the eleminator.
Glad you realise that Saket and more importanty admit it. If Gayle comes up with another big one, you will be refamiliarised with your foot!
I ama Bhajji fan. He is indeed a big moments kind of guy. If not always consistent.
Gayle, literally, is a tough pill to swallow. He could Bradman’s batting records, but he is a fugly basman. Effective, in fact, the most impactful player in this IPL, but fugly to watch.
Truth be told, some moms are disppointed with todays results.Particularly the ones who were tired of using the smae old line with their kids- Soja beta warna Gabbar ayega. They were hoping to replace it with -Soja beta warna nange SRK ki tasveer dikhaungi. Tho,one shudders to think what kind of psychological trauma that would impose on the poor kids.
Jay, I can’t ever understand how one can align himself with a club that’s in the North of England, without ever having lived there. I, myself, would never give a toss about some world-beating local cricket team in Australia (New South Wales or whatever!). But that’s me. In the IPL, I don’t have any local team. I just support my favorite players and try to look out for young, upcoming talent.
It’s the norm though Saket. There are more United fans in North London then Manchester itself! When sport becomes about celebrities it becomes about supporting the celebrities. Blame David Beckham!
@saket : it happens. i feel like united is my team.
actually i was never a football freak, but once 8-9 years ago, I saw a team wearing red colour jersey losing, 1-3 and later i saw that team losing again this time i identified the team by its name manu i used to pronounce it “maanuu” and becoz they were losing i used to identify them by the bald goalkeeper (barthez) and once i saw david beckham coming to pitch, and recieving grand welcome by spectators of theater of dreams and commentator said here comes captain of england… and i decided among those days i would support this team in football.
One week later icame to know team is called Manchester United and its one of the greatest teams in footballing history.
I was a fan, still am… and i feel more close to it than any ipl or any cricket team, reasons which transcend football even, i guess as theres so much to learn and admire about man united i felt.
THere are two teams in football in club level people can be inspired or learn from (or may be 3)
- barcelona (their philosophy, is quite inspiring and motivating)
- manchester united (we have star players leaving us again and again but we rebuild and one man alex ferguson, is a man from who we can learn a lot)
- Arsenal (another philosophy)
i feel looking from this prism, i have found football more fascinating and inspiring.
and yup sitting in India, i can support United, as they are a team that i support.
I’ve got no problems with your philosophy, Rooney. It’s just that as far as I’m concerned, there’s no personal investment for me in supporting Man U or Barca. They are not Indian clubs, don’t have Indians playing for them, although I’d like to see Messi doing well.
My reasons for supporting a club, a franchise are just different. I guess I could support Bangalore (and I did, for 3 years) or Delhi in the IPL (and I supported them as well) because I’ve lived there for some time at least, but the absence of local talent spoils it for me. Delhi Daredevils, amongst all IPL teams had the most number of local players in its lineup for the last 3 seasons. Today, apart from Sehwag, there’s hardly anyone who can be called a Delhite. The same is the case with Bangalore.
But that’s a different story. Getting back to your point, I can’t really understand how you can support Man U, but I’m totally ok with it. I’m kind of an underdog supporter, I guess. I’m not exactly a big follower of Baseball but I’d support the Oakland A’s because they always work on the smallest budget and produce great players (who unfortunately leave the club and join the big ones for a greater price) through their farming system. But that’s me! And I can’t possibly force my thinking on anyone else.
but it just happened that when i started watching them they where on their worst losing run in years!! and i started to cheer them!
rest i agree each has his own reasons, for me this brought a change i started to love this game of football.
another point: today english premier league is no longer about local pride or honour, its an interantional level competition as u see most teams are having players from across the world.
and same about Uefa Champions League.
Their object is no longer promoting local boys/local players/english etc… play the best football in the world. get best players in the world.
Now turn to this if one likes soccer, there are only two leagues most watched in the world, as unlike cricket we dont have full year international, so football fan come backs to local league of england/ spain / germany/ italy.
But i understand ur point, but look from angle of global football u would get wat i mean i hope!!!
Just back from work(& a post work party)
Totally missed this match
A)I am not concerned/ happy about SRKS wet dream being over…
It’s only that I am now relieved thAt the very perverse unhealthy self- chest- beating reaction that a kKR win wouldve elicited will not be visible ..
B) think this was the best chance EVER for kkr to do something substantial in IPL – but if this is their “summit”, then….
C)Ps-There is nothing wrong in dissecting sachins performances and obvious human failings BUT
D) can anybody argue that he is one of the (perhaps the) best cricketer ever
E) if someone’s international career lasts more than two decades, is one not expecting some peaks and troughs…
One should celebrate sachin- period……
Good point by Saket,Jay and Satyam.
And all valid.
What complicates matters is the fact that aside from IPL/CL, there still is truly local cricket in India in form of Ranji/Duleep trophy. So it IS a little weird to see someone play Ranji for Delhi, Duleep for North Zone and IPL from Calcutta.
Sachin as lways is the rare exception as no one would ever imagine him playing for any other team but Mumbai in any form of cricket.
One can dissect Sachin’s performances/career to one’s heart content but he has nothing left to prove.
Again the argument of celebrating Sachin’s performances versus Indain victories is a little delusional as this is not an either/or or mutually exclusive.
Let us just say that Sachin gives more occasions to celebrate his performances or ‘centuries’ than Indain team offers victories.
No Sachin fan is saying that his performance transcends the fortunes of Indian team. It is just another attempt to belittle Sachin.
And, people who start saying I am a fan of so and so but I feel…. are usually liars.
Again, it is not a crime not to be a Sachin fan but come out and say it instead of making ridiculous attempts to belittle an exemplary and a unique career.
There is nothing left to prove or nothing open to question. Period.
If some still feel the need to jerk off to the beat of – ‘Sachin never contributes to India’s victory’ , do it elsewhere.
“So it IS a little weird to see someone play Ranji for Delhi, Duleep for North Zone and IPL from Calcutta.”
Exactly. Raina still plays Ranji Trophy for UP. Gambhir is Delhi’s captain. Yuvraj plays for Punjab and so on. And it’s not the IPL that decides who gets into the national squad. It’s the Ranji Trophy, still and that criteria isn’t going to change. For all the hoopla surrounding the IPL, no IPL performer from this season has received an India call-up based on his IPL performance alone. Badrinath was the highest run-scorer in Ranji in the last season, has been a consistent performer for years, and therefore gets his chance.
The resentment may be due to Bombay player dominance over the years versus rest of India. But that glass ceiling was broken by the likes of Kapil Dev, Azharuddin, Ganguly, Dravid and now Dhoni. Now every part of India boasts of top class cricketers and no region is discriminated. If Gavaskar and Kapil Dev can be described in terms of bollywood as Bachchan type figures, Sachin is the SRK of cricket.
Somebody above was saying ” Gor Kalyug”.. I got confirmation of the same.
Srk’s or for that matter any star movies doesnt make India’s heart beat But SRT makes India’s heart Beat to JOY, Bliss or to a Nation’s Sigh… He has affected the Psyche of India, Emotional Connect, He is India’s ” Tendluya”..
When we say somebody is like a lion, we dont assume that he is a real lion. It is a close comparison in terms of media lionisation and overall popularity. For cricket loving public Sachin is god. But there are many who think that cricket has sidelined other sports and they have other icons. Likwise SRK may be popular among a certain crowd, but the other crowd may prefer other stars. India and hindus in particular worship multi gods. Northerners worship Ram, Bengalis worship Durga, maharashrians worship Ganpati, tamilians worship Lord Muruga and so on and so forth. Some love Gandhis, some love Modi, some love Mamta, some love communists.
You raised Srk to SRT’s Level and no reason can justify that.
“Cricket has sidelined other sports”
SRT is not be balmed for that. We indians must take blame instead we alwys look out for external agent to pass the buck…
Media has not Lionized SRT. Media followed Him. its natural as if u r in dark, instinctively if u see a ray of light you goona follow it.. SRT was such light at that given moment in India’s history..
I have yet to meet a person who says that such and such actor gives me joy but every 3rd person in india may say same for sachin ( leaving fans aside)… He is not God in literal sense but Super Human in every sense and no filmi star is that… SRT is sun and srk is just one of millions of stars twinkling ..
And there is no comparison be it media lionization and over all popularity… Its not some certain crowd but Pan india where Sachin may be the only figure that transcends age, caste, religion, region, gender. if you need proof just look at IPL matches all MI matches home or away were sold out 3 weeks before only coz of SRT, even so called srk’s matches were played to empty stands and only for MI match Eden garden was Capacity full.. and listen to the Cheers he gets even in home away places… As they say Every Ground in India is SRT’s Home Ground and that is not Media created news but “Fact”.
No one in his right senses blame SRT for the sidelining of other sports. Are you thinking that cricket is synonymus with SRT? When some say that cricket in India has eclipsed other sports, the game is blamed, not the players. Infact not even game , but the media is blamed for giving so much space for crcket news and highlighting everything regarding cricket and pandering to the cricket lovers more. And lovers of other sports feel like step children.
I agree there is lot of media created things but no media lionization can sustain “Bubble” for 20 yrs if that bubble is not bubble but Ocean.. Sachin is not Bubble created by media or patronized by media.
Again you are assuming things. Who says that Sachin is a bubble? We can say Dhoni, Yuvraj and others like them are bubbles Or upstarts. Until they stand the test of time.
When a Punjabi plays for Pune warriors, when Dravid goes to Punjab, it is difficult to digest. And the public tries to identify the teams with the particular captain only. Thus they will cheer a Dhoni, a Yuvraj, a Gambhir because they are playing. If tomorrow there is no Dhoni in CSK, the supporters will also become less. Thus IPL will give rise to personalities rather than teams. And if Ganguly comes good and he plays against KKR, the Eden crowd obviously will cheer him. In that Mumbai players are lucky to have Sachin always playing for them and their loyalty will not face any challenges. Thus regional loyalties will clash with personality loyalties and ultimately the former may win. A sort of multiple personality disorder. Or can we call it identity crisis?
May be Camping was correct and the judgement day is here and the end of the world is upon us. Cannot think of a worse or a more inappropriate analogy. SRK is a popular star, may be superstar. He doesnt enjoy the love of the nation and cannot boast supremacy amongst the entire world ( atleast cricket playing world ) that SRT does. SRT’s star in cricket world has a million times more luminiscenece than SRK’s in BW. One might say SRT is the Bachchan of cricket and you might be closer to the truth. What blasphemy!
In terms of local stars playing for non local teams, public is more comfortable with it than us. They have adapted to the adapted to the dichotomy quite well.
Bachchan is nearing 70 and Sachin is 37. So I want to take somebody in his own age group. We can take Salman or Aamir in place of SRK. I know movies and cricket are parallel lines never meeting, each having its own destiny. If we have to take some one from sports world, i will take Federer’s name to compare Sachin’s popularity.
“If some still feel the need to jerk off to the beat of – ‘Sachin never contributes to India’s victory’ , do it elsewhere.”
Now I know whom you were pointing your statement towards, though I have never said what you believe I do. It might be my critical viewpoint of Sachin’s statistics but that doesnt mean you come up with ridiculous comments on someone’s taste or even make degrading remarks about doubting his gender n sexuality. Time n again, I have been reading your comments and when you feel enraged by someone’s comments against a particular star you admire or a sportsman you worship, you come up with extremely offensive remarks, directly insulting the user. You talked about me being a dudette above. I thought of ignoring it but could you stop being personal and keep your statements strictly related to the topic under discussion?
And I would want Satyam to clarify this. If someone prays for someone’s failure (like a random comment about wanting Ra One to flop/underperform), does that count as Freedom of Expression on this blog, as you said above? Whereas if someone decides to make a criticism of a top player’s second innings record, are we supposed to talk about it elsewhere and are subject to personal remarks?
I know that rajen is one of the respected and earliest members of this blog. So most people will try to defend him as they’ve done before. Or you could make it clear-cut that forum rules vary according to members!
TonyMontana.. you can say whatever you want to about Sachin (or anyone else). There’s no issue. There aren’t different rules for different members here. I’ll let Rajen respond to this comment himself. I generally don’t edit anything unless I feel two people are either having a fight or are likely to have one based on an exchange. The same goes for directly abusive language. I think Rajen often uses sexual innuendo as humor but also as insult. I don’t however think it should be taken all that seriously. The problem is sometimes if you know enough of a person you realize where they’re coming from and something that seems very offensive on its face is mediated by this knowledge. But since you object to this rather strongly it shouldn’t be done with you and I would say this for anyone else who feels the same way. There have been times when Rajen has said these things and others have responded in the same way and the exchange was kept intact. But I do understand where you’re coming from. I personally think there’s a difference between direct abuse and sexual innuendo but that might just be the Shakespeare lover in me (the Bard will never let an opportunity go to introduce sexual innuendo!). At times I have been treated to both and I never really did mind the latter (again I objected more to communal or ethnic innuendo) but that’s just me. In any case there aren’t different rules here but there is a judgment call in the sense that sometimes one knows where one person is coming from better than another. Obviously if it’s direct abuse that’s a different matter. If you consider this kind of innuendo as bad as abuse it shouldn’t be directed at you. That’s a simple call.
Phew.. after that defense I get a free consultation from Rajen!
LOL.
Ditto to what Satyam said.
First of all I never named you.If you felt the comment was directed at a group you feel you are a part of, it is a different story.
I do agree that I have low tolerance for the same argument that has been proven to be wrong made again and again, based on whatever ( personal dislike ,jealousy).You have done it atleast twice on this thread. After a while these childish games become boring and tiresome. I find it somewhat annoying when instead of admitting dislike or even hatred, people resort to insinuation and selective data dredging to diminish someone. Doesnt lead to a honest or a worthwhile discourse. Sorry to bring in SRK but I freely admit I hate his politics, insecurity ( often masquerading as brashness) manipulation. I am not going to say K3G or DDLJ were not blockbusters/big hits.Same with Sachin.If one doesnt like him, say it. Instead of using selective data to show he didnt matter in an Indain victory. You have done it often and there are others who resort to the same thing. It gets tiring after a while. And if someone doesnt take subtle hints,I resort to a verbsal sledgehammer.
Disagreement in an argument is fine.Dishonesty is not,IMO.
I HOPE YOU GET THE POINT.
After this if you still feel slighted, I WOULD say I am sorry. Sorry that it hurt you. And also sorry that people feel they have a right to patently dishonest line of argument but not the temperament to face the results. Most of the people who come here to make fun of Amitabh,Abhishek,Sachin etc are also active on other forums which I do check out time to time.
And, my response to them is based on their behaviour here as well as elsewhere. Becoz ,I do notice their tone and content changes depending on the forum. Even if their biases dont.
by the way on the ‘freedom of expression’ thing anyone can say anything they like. There are no ‘rules’. On Ra 1 my only point yesterday was that there is no ‘moral’ question either way. If someone wishes for it to flop and if someone on the other hand wants it to be a hit for me it’s the very same thing. I don’t quite buy into the ‘morality’ of ‘hey films should do well and it’s good for the industry and what not’. People like Taran and Nahata use this kind of logic all the time but then when they want to pull a film down they mercilessly rip it apart in every way imaginable. Doesn’t that cost the film some tickets (people who are influenced by their opinion)? Why don’t they tone things down for the good of the film in these instances?! Of course speaking for myself I would love to believe that God follows the box office but I have my doubts.
Agree with that, and when I made that comment on Ra.One flopping, it was a light one and I never seriously questioned the user. If someone comes up with a Congrats – so and so film flopped, I know it wont be against the rules of any sort.
My only concern in the post was carrying forward the same analogy to other things apart from Bollywood. Its pretty normalif you want a team to lose, right? So what if someone observes Sachin’s not playing a major inning..
But you cleared it in your previous post.So thats okay
Am not surprised. Dada enjoys a tremendous loyalty and following in Bengal. Am surprised we have not seen more of this.
At the start of the season, it would have been easy to placate Ganguly and his supporters by offering some face saving device. But, they chose to bludgeon ahead with a false sense of bravado in the hope that they will win and winning will quiten everyone. Now that they didnt win, these issues are bound to raise up their head.
Yankees had same issue with Jeter and even tho they tried to put up a brave afce ,they had to agree to a deal that would not be justified onb his present form and expected returns.
or so your fantasy goes..! He’s worked with far more prestige names this past decade than any of his younger peers. But you might have forgotten to notice! What does the Rajneeti director do after such a huge grosser? He goes to Bachchan! Here I must agree with Rajen. Some comments are so offensively silly and ridiculous that one feels bad for responding so politely! But hey if you think this is a ‘beginning’ at close to 70 he’s probably doing something right!
Hahaha msdhony thanx for that info on rajesh khanna– didn’t know he had fallen into these “depths” of c grade stuff…
Lol @zindagi ke safar mein” moment….
Incidentally that song is one of my all-time favourites…
The lyrics are a case study of what a Hindi film lyrics SHOULD be -accessible, endearing bu uncomplicated
This is where sometimes(not always) Anand bakshi trumped the vastly superior jäved akhtar and gulzar.
It also was quite well placed in the film and Rajesh performed well.
Rd burman was in form and u have a timeless poten mix
Add kishore kr at his peak and u have a bonfide classic
Sometimes when u go to a uni reunion and meet an ex-flame,u realise the depth of this song!!! Everything is for the better-njoy
ironically when this film and song came about in 1974 it was already the beginning of the end for Rajesh Khanna.. and with him the decline was as dramatically compressed as was his rise..
hahaha
Just noticed that a wrong link of some wierdo trying a “karaoke” on this song was posted above—may actually be removed (although it is quite unintentionally funny)
The real version by Kishore Kr–
Agree.
Actually I now feel that rajah khanna has somehow not been treated by history and cinema discourse well.
Ok, his acting abilities were not outstanding but were reasonable. He saw a phase unparalleled even by Bachchanesque standards….
He was the first and one of only two bonafide superstars of indian cinema.
Somehow I see v little respect and ample ridicule for him.
People love to dl that when one is done and out.
Ps– the song above is easily in my top ten all-time ilhindi film songs !!!!!!
Rajesh Khanna’s charm was unique and he had a great success story at one point of time which he destroyed with his own hands due to ego. Those who ridicule him are those that worship only running horses. Kishore Kumar and the Burmans gave their best songs to his movies which were also picturised beautifully.His movies had mintfresh feel with romance, drama, music with old world style.
His movies had that mintfresh feel with old world charm even now. But his personal life went haywire with many wreckless decisions and many of his fans could not believe that in real life he was really a very difficult man to deal with.Seems success went to his head. Atleast Dimple is now leading a saner independent life while his daughters married and leading decent lives. We must compliment Dimple for this. I am writing all this in past tense because the hero is long dead but what remains is a shadow of himself.
LO…u guys are discussing all this juicy details and all the while I thought it was stupid cricket and wasn’t even clicking on the link!!! LOLZ. Dimple was not all that of a saint. She was rummy (cards) playing lazy housewife. My friends who were her neighbors recall RK beating her, pulling her by her hair etc. I think later on somewhere she confessed as to why she didn’t leave RK earlier (everyone trys to be bhartiya naari and be good) and that men can be expected to have fidelity just like woman etc. I think all may not be well with JB and BIGB marraige even now…infedelity leaves ugly scars…people stick around because of kids..and sometimes they are too decent to wash dirty laundry in public. I think JB maintained dignified silence thro’ out the difficult period and so did Dharam’s wife!!! I can’t imagine though why women like Hema/Sridevi settle for married men and play the 2nd wife.
When Rajesh married Dimple, it was called cradle snatching. She was all starry eyed to have married the heartbeat of many young girls. The problem is Rajesh Khanna could not stick to any woman whether it was Anju Mahendroo, or his favourite heroines(M and Sh), Tina or others. Not to forget Devyani Chaubal who was his very special friend and who described Tina as sadela pakora. Some men, some women are just dont fit into the confinement of marriage, it seems. They just cant handle that responsibility or pressure.
She never got love from her husband. He had so many affairs. And why cant she have an affair? With Sunny, she allegedly had a long affair and Dharmendra was worried. Yet Twinkle was cast opposite Bobby Deol in Barsaat. Dimple got into exotic candle making business and is still acting in some odd movies. Better to lead one’s own life than compromise with a difficult and moody human being called a husband.
AA exemplifies typical male-MCP (desi men on top of it) attitude. They will criticise arbaaz khan’s wife (badnam munnis real name?) but never blame any of the married men for two(3 or 4) timing their wives!
Rajesh Khanna is a story in self destruction.He had world at his feet and gave it all away. I did like him a lot and rooted for him long after the glory days but alas, he did little to help his cause.
With your above comment above on dimples affairs and the (rightful) empathy with which u made that point, Vatikala, you have proved bwyond doubt that u r a female lol, irrespective of the physical embodiments…
Yes, there is nothing wrong with her “affairs” with younger men…
Ps— I have a certain original point here on Rajesh khanna…
Spare some thought for the poor guy.
Just two- three decades ago, females used to marry his photograph and henwas literally at the top of the world/..
And then there was this sudden descent into an abysss ,both professional and personal….
The magnitude of extremities he had had to endure is enormous , taking into account everything…
Dont condone his acting in c grade stuff and doing semiporn stuff. But guys give him some respect …
Many in the west become drug addicts or
Nervous wrecks or are caught “commando style” a la britney spears….he is not the only one…..
Think it is bs um politically correct to ONLy see the female perspective.
One can argue that a more sensible female like jaya bachchan could have “handled” Rajesh khanna better rather than indulging with kiddies like sunny deol and akshAye khanna — just an original thought!!! Hahaha
Lol
Sunny Deol(54) is one year older than Dimple Kapadia(53).
Its just that Dimple retired right away after Bobby and married Rajesh Khanna in 1973 at the age of 16.
Later, after giving birth to Twinkle and Rinke , and probably falling out with Rajesh, she made a comeback in mid 80′s doing many movies. She was around 25+.
She was quite the hot heroine back then working with young bloods Sunny deol, Anil Kapoor, Jackie Shroff all within her range agewise.
Ofcourse she had long relationship with Sunny, by early 90′s they almost got married.Somehow miraculously it was saved.
dogA—Thanx for the links–(am more than aware of Dimples “merits” and charms though)lol
The point was that if Rajesh Khanna had a jaya b-like sensible anchor, would thingz be any different for him–maybe not—but a thought!!
He also ill treated Tina who waited for him for more than 5 years. Look where is she now. Every woman cannot be a Jaya Bachchan who had monumental patience. She put up with so many things and survived.
For all his personal indiscretions, i still love his ever green hits especially the musical parts. And when he utters the name Pushpa, it is really magical. He is like Sharatchandra chatterjee’s Devdas.
Why you didn’t see King khan at the wankhede last night
SRK retires hurt after he’s booed at IPL game
Wednesday’s no-show came after a section of the crowd heckled him during KKR’s match at D Y Patil
Saumit Singh
Pretty Good Pretty Good Pretty Good Pretty Good Pretty Good
Posted On Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 05:07:33 AM
It was touted as the clash of the tournament. On Wednesday night, as Wankhede played host to a match between Kolkata Knight Riders and Mumbai Indians, many saw it as the ultimate faceoff between two iconic Mumbaikars- Shah Rukh Khan and Mukesh Ambani.
And while the Ambani clan turned up in their all-blue regalia, cheering for their team, the KKR stand was shorn of its brightest star.
Shah Rukh Khan was not there. In fact he was far away, in the cosy confines of Mannat, watching the match on his giant LCD screen with good friend Karan Johar and other close friends.
And while the world was led to believe Khan was celebrating his best buddy’s birthday – K Jo turned 39 last night – we were told by some of his closest friends that SRK’s absence had a lot to do with a bruised ego as well.
Speaking exclusively to Mumbai Mirror, SRK’s close friend and Juhi Chawla’s husband, Jai Mehta, said, “The last time Shah Rukh turned up for a KKR match in the city, he was booed by a large section of the crowd. It hurt him badly.”
The match, which was held at Navi Mumbai’s D Y Patil Stadium on May 19, saw KKR give Pune Warriors a sound drubbing.
Hurt, Shah Rukh Khan has vowed never to turn up for any KKR match in any of the city stadiums
It was a high-pitched contest, because it saw Sourav Ganguly playing against his former home team for the first time.
While all those who expected fireworks between Ganguly and SRK were disappointed, a section of the crowd did not take SRK’s win sportingly.
Mumbai Mirror has learnt that the Badshah confessed to his closest pals that the booing and the jeering from his “own people” left him bruised. “After doing so much for this city, this is not what I expected,” he reportedly told his friends. “And he has vowed never to turn up for any KKR match in any of the city stadiums,” Jai Mehta added.
This is not the first time that SRK has exposed his vulnerable side. Some time ago, the star swore off micro-blogging site Twitter, after being hit by a volley of abusive messages.
“Twitter broke my heart,” he said, “I need to cut myself off from negative energies.”
Let SRK handover KKR team to Karan Johar and concentrate on his career.
Bachchan retired from active politics after he was hit by V.P.Singh and others repeatedly.
Aamir Khan stopped direct criticism of Modi aand started praising development in Gujarat.
Let SRK also do the same and live in peace.
Actually SRK’s downfall will be 1000 times worse than Rajesh Khanna (RK)…when you are mega star but not well grounded person, then dealing with success is kinda easy but dealing with failure ain’t and you need mega b…s for surviving in life of anonymity just as you survive in limelight. BIGB for instance is fairly grounded person. You have to have a plan B. Limelight and success at BO and movies are always shortlived. SRK probably is in fag end of his career (my opinion)…..if RA-one is flop, he will be finished. Mark my words.
Hahaha agree jayshah..
Srk always makes fun of others in AwRd functions etc and later argues that his is just “fun”.
Surprised to see his “vulnerable” side.
Ps saw priyanka choprs in one of the kkr matches with Srk…
Have been following the body language.
At the very least, this proves that Srk is not gay (but a bi)— lol
Maybe he is not Asexual ….
@Rajesh
NOW my last wish of the year..WANT Ra1 to NOT TO GROSS 100 cr ..
Jai Ho Prabhu ! Agar Sab aapki jaise hi Sochne lage to then world is a far better plact to live. Thank god you said my last wish of the year not my my last wish.
@dj
wow.look at you..
when you can comment on my last wish, how can you write this to me..
‘Thank god you said my last wish of the year not my my last wish.”
I pray and wish you live longer to make many more comments.
I’am not sure how the World is better place to live if one wants the other person’s wish to be last..Anyway as long as SRK makes movies I will do my wishes weather it is last of first, you please don’t worry.
SRK’s career has supposedly been in Danger since 2000 when Hrithik Roshan Arrived.
But since then SRK has had
2000 – Mohabatien 2nd highest Grosser
2001 – K3G 2nd Highest(Though it was the whole industry in the movie)
2002 – Devdas Top Grosser
2003 – KHNH 2nd Highest Grosser
2004 – VZ Top Grosser
2005 – Flop Paheli
2006 – Middling success KANK and Decent Don
2007 – Top Grosser OSO
2008 – Rab Ne 2nd Highest
2009 – N/A
2010 – MNIK Middling Success
Now i am not arguing, and i agree that he has not been that hugely successfull by his own standards, Salman and esp Aamir have definitely tighetened the screws last few years and he is no longer the Bonafide top star etc.
And ofcourse Ra.One failure will hurt him a lot, but as long as i have been following BW Boxoffice, he has remained the most consistent in last many years.
Wont write him off.And i know many are not.
But just saying that dont be surprised if Ra.One gets a humoungous opening.
I am not so generous as to call KANK a middling success! Again I just don’t see the ‘standards’ that make DMD a flop and this film a middling success! The same goes for MNIK where the Indian gross was quite poor. And again here’s the problem — the films with the biggest budgets get these sorts of ratings as long as they cross 40 or 50 or 60 when relative to these films those figures are like 20 or 30 for smaller films! You can’t have the highest benchmarks before release (the film will do 80 or 100 crores or whatever) and then suddenly something way lower becomes ok too. And even with very poor trending. KANK collapsed completely in its second week. This wasn’t like Don where the initial was lower than expected but the film was relatively stable.
In that entire decade SRK has a top grosser three times! Hrithik had it three times. Aamir twice and each of those times the gross was the highest ever. So RNBDJ was ‘second’ by quite a margin compared to just Ghajini! Meanwhile Aamir also had two very successful films in ’06. And given that the game this entire past decade has also been about critical success where has SRK been on that front? Aamir has Lagaan and DCH and RDB and TZP. But note how even VZ in 2004 made 45% or more of its gross in week 1 at a time when trending was far better for big films. So barring OSO there is no SRK top grosser that is as impressive as Hrithik’s top grossers let alone Aamir’s after one makes all the adjustments.
Has SRK still been a top star in this decade? of course! But it’s about losing ground to others.You can’t be the topmost star (which has of course always been the SRK narrative) unless you really set the benchmarks. Even OSO more or less just equaled D2 adjusted for inflation. So there isn’t one film he has in this entire period that is absolutely the biggest. Again we see now how even Salman has got a 140 crore grosser or so. SRK still hasn’t cleared 100 crores! So at least for a half decade now SRK has been struggling to match the benchmarks others have set. And by the way he’s not even getting bigger initials than then rest. So as we were discussing yesterday Bachchan even in clear decline was still getting by far the biggest initials between ’88 and ’92. SRK hasn’t done this barring OSO. By the way Mohabbatein had Bachchan, K3G you’ve already pointed out, Devdas had the Madhuri/Ash double, OSO had the 33 star song and so on . VZ and RNBDJ are fair because here SRK was the only selling point pretty much. With Aamir or Hrithik though most of their grossers had only them and nothing else to really recommend the films (barring D2 for Hrithik and Fanaa for Aamir).
In the late 90s SRK despite not having hits all the time was nonetheless the focal point. A few years into this past decade that ground start shifting rather rapidly beneath his feet. If you claim to be the topmost star the numbers should prove it. The benchmarks of the second half of the 90s were generally set by SRK, not so this past decade.
I’m not writing him off by any means. On Ra 1 if it has a good enough gross I will count it as a success because I am always more interested in the audience that shows up. So if the film for example makes 90 crores after a good initial it means the audience has liked the film. Of course on trade terms it should be a flop even at that gross! Of course the trade will forget its standards at that point! On the film getting a humongous initial it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened but I wouldn’t take it for granted either. don’t think the trailers so far have created any great buzz as far as I can tell. But sure it could be the kind of big film everyone shows up for.
But how has he been more consistent than Aamir? Aamir doesn’t have a flop at all this entire past decade! And MP should be considered a middling success if KANK is. The rate of retention is no different!
Just think about what you would have been saying here if SRK had had Aamir’s record! The media would have called him greater than Bachchan!
Yes, This decade Aamir has been most consistent with no outright flop, and also his Production house is way ahead of SRK’s in terms of audience faith. Was talking about whole career.
We are expecting SRK to make new bechmarks and if he is 25% less than top grossers, is considered bad for him etc.
So, the extreme of him being King etc is false and also him reaching Rajesh Khanna nadir is also wrong(post 1975 his BO was close to non-existant, though he saw highs also which no one did).
But it’s not like DDLJ. DDLJ was an extremely iconic film for the 90s. Then SRK once again had KKHH. In between a much lesser grosser like DTPH which was nonetheless important.. These were the dominant films of the age. Aamir had a huge grosser in RH but it didn’t matter because that film didn’t define the age. The films that set the agenda in the 90s were those attached to SRK (in the second half of the decade). This wasn’t true in the past decade when the most iconic films barring early on in the decade haven’t been SRK’s. So it’s not just about the grossers but also the contexts. However SRK was doing in the 90s (and of course he had very many failures when he deviated from his strength genre) there was no one getting ahead of him. It was exactly the opposite in the past decade. It’s not just about 3I being out of reach. So far he’s not even reached Ghajini level! As a matter of fact he hasn’t even cleared 90 crores. Could it happen this year for him? Sure! But let’s see it first. I am not automatically prepared to give him the biggest benchmarks when he has been struggling to meet them for a while. Don’t forget OSO itself will have been 4 years by the time his next releases. That’s a lifetime for an aging star.
On KANK and MNIK sure the overseas numbers were huge and Johar probably made some money but are Indian distributors going to be happy with that argument?! Does the Bombay distributor make money if the film does well in the US? Isn’t it supposedly all about distribution costs?!
@jaya – Aishwarya should have been the owner of the title for her performance in Ashutosh Gowariker’s Jodhaa Akbar.
Though I agree priyanka did not deserve a national award for Fashion , Aish was horrible in Jodha Akbar. Both Hritik and Aish never understood the movie and the whole movie was a like a stage play.
Ashu was very lucky to have Aamir for Lagaan and SRK for Swades. Both excelled in their respective parts and did complete justice to the script at hand.
Aish and Abhi jointly have ruined atleast a dozen movie and will continue doing so even after remaining in this industry for so long.
SLB has been getting in wrong casting too. Imagine Aamir at the helm in Guzarish and what he could have brought to the character and movie in general. We would have all been discussing the issue the movie brought to the forefront.
Hritik and Aish again made it a complete joke.
But generally I am happy since the paying audience can sense the facade and shoves them back to their right place and I was one of the happiest person with that makhi comment from Salman during those days.
Hahahaha
Just back!
Caught a glimpse of the score now….
Gayle again made 89…..
As rightly pointed out above, gayle is having a gr8 time esp after that “flat track bully” debate—lol
Infact bangalore has been single handedl been propped up by one man….
Let’s see what Tendulkar does today….
It’s uncanny how gayle continues to vindicate me ESP after the now famous (lol) “flat track bully” debate …
Think saket will recall it…
It’s as of gayle read my comments and got further motivated– talk bout hogging credit…..lol
Ps 10dulkar gone!!!
Its not sachins getting out but the way he was totally fixed by an above average spinner that caught my eye– he looked tired…
The way MI has surrendered is a bit surprising and even shameful…lack of application, conviction and leadership—inspite of being the best team on paper!!
Gayle has made me proud—lol
now itll be gayle vs the ice man
Not that if this would have made a difference…but..
Why was Pollard sent in at No 7..Chasing a big total he could very well be sent at No 3 and get more time inthe middle..MI did the same mistake in last years finals too.
Its not about Pollard..
Its about Mumbai’s decision to bat second always.. after winning the toss.. knowing very well that team batting second has struggled to chase totals.. the pitch gets slow after a while..
Absolutely. He has been on fire and so consistent. Flat track bully or not these is impressive power hitting.RCB are deserving winners. After a great start in the tournament, Mumbai was floundering. Sachin has some limitations in 20-20 format. He has been pretty consistent and has decent contributions but Gayle has been something else. Nobody has been as consistent and dominant than Gayle this year.There have been some with occasional explosive knocks but Gayle has been so destructive, he leaves them behind.And the Mumbai side has lately been inconsistent.
If Gayle fires again in the finals, it should be an exciting battle.
Where is Saket? May be the foot is stuck ?? May needs help getting it out.LOL.
I think he is still right in a way.Gayle obviously has limitations. And while I enjoy watching his power play, it isnt exactly poetry.
But, he has thoroughly dominated the proceedings since he came back. Wonder why he didnt click with KKR.
He hasn’t ‘clicked’ this often, like ever. He’s hit a purple patch in this IPL. And has been helped by the pitch/boundaries in Bangalore, his ‘home’ ground.
By default, the way to tackle the West Indians is to corner them with spin. Pollard’s a sitting duck in front of high or even medium quality spin. Gayle, with his technique, should struggle against spin or swing. The latter’s not everyone’s cup of tea though.
Thanx Rajen….
Saket—had a real setback after the South African exit from the world cup
And now this Gayle onslaught after the great “flat track bully” debate (above)
hahaha
well, i dont wanna rub it in any more—-
Dont worry Saket, u can reappear safely now—will refrain from reminding about this “victory” (despite temptation) lol
Yes, you are so right. Now that you have “won” I’ll go and contemplate suicide! Your jibes kill me man. My ulcer count just increased by one after reading this post.
Sachin had a rather ordinary day as a captain in retrospect—-
a) Opting for bowling after winning the toss
b) Letting an inform Gayle seize the intiative —20 odd runs off the first over
c) Opening the bowling from abu instead of Malinga–defensive apporach
d) Bhajji at no3 —thats understandable even in 50 over format, biut in 20-20, u want your best batsmen to hog the max overs/
e) The way sachin got out showed tiredness –the ball actually spun quite a bit unlike my first impressin, but again nothing that sachin in form cannot read…
When something goes wrong, it is easy to pile on these points.
The bottomline is that Gayle has single handedly changed this IPL like a thunderstorm (lke his name)
THIS is what i was saying earlier bout match winners , equation changing players.
These may not work most of the time, but when they do nothing/nobody else matters…
PS—This PROVES Gayle has been improperly handled in KKR, WI
Another pertinent point here—
Do guys like Gayle or Sehwag NEED an occasional kick on their back side ie dropping from the team etc to perform to their potential.
There is no way that one can compare the Gayle who waits for the two or three lose balls in an over to hit with the reckless sledgehammer…
There is indeed a place for operant conditioning not only in sports but even institutions and even countries…
PS–There is something to be learnt from the way the disciplined Japanese have coped with the nuclear/earthquake mega calmity with the self-pitying/ “helpless” “passive” approach of a few others who suddenly find themselves in “complex contradictory situations” knowingly!!!!
Rajen, the foot’s fixed in my mouth. But I’d still say I’m never going to be a Chris Gayle fan. Had he been playing baseball, I’d definitely change my stance, but this is a different game.
I just caught the first 5 overs of RCB’s batting and I knew from there on that it’d be tough for MI. Not that it’s not a ‘fair’ result. MI almost screwed up a modest chase of 147 against KKR in Mumbai, the ask in this case was pretty much impossible. That too in Chennai where the boundaries are long.
And Rajen, I might be wrong about Gayle, but I stand vindicated on Bhajji When a 20 year old hits you for sixes with ease, it’s time to think of an alternate career.
Too many things went wrong today for MI, including some strange decisions at the top. Why give the new ball to an inexperienced rookie bowler in such an important game? Why not hit Gayle with spin at both ends? There’s a left arm spinner (Ali Murtaza) warming the benches and there’s also Ray Price, who just had one game in the whole tournament. Why bat second when your side’s batting has been suspect of late? Hindsight’s always 20-20, but some of these decisions look amateurish now.
All valid points, Saket.
Sachin hasnt been a great captain ever and today was no exception.
Gayle’s batting is npt pretty but I still find it enjoyable. Bhajji, as I conceded is not consistent and in 20-20 , bowlers can get the stick regardless of their skills.
It is hard fo one team to win consistently in this form of cricket and it is to Dhoni’s credit that he has managed to keep CSK in the reckoning in more than one season.
I do think Sachin’s an ‘inspirational’ captain. He has definitely rejuvenated Ambati Rayudu’s career. Helped Saurabh Tiwary last year. But I don’t recall many instances where he has out-thought his opposition.
He has Shaun Pollock as a consultant. Pollock, ironically, was a by-the-books leader himself. Was a great all rounder, but a pretty average strategist. Pollock had to resign from South Africa’s captaincy after the 2003 WC fiasco. So don’t think he’s getting much help from him as far as team strategy is concerned.
Dhoni, on the other hand, has Stephen Fleming as coach. Fleming was a pretty shrewd captain who marshalled his average resources quite well. It seems logical to think that Dhoni might be benefitting from Fleming’s inputs. Though he is undoubtedly a fine captain in his own right. I’ve always thought of his captaincy highly during the IPL, compared to his stint with the national team. Whether it’s due to better players at his disposal, or something else, he operates on a higher level in the IPL.
The best players don’t necessarily make the best captains. Sachin is “inspiration” but I think yesterday you HAVE to bowl Malinga first over against Gayle. Just have to. Don’t give someone in his form an inch. In any case, the better side won. MI’s form has been pretty poor for a few matches and RCB and CSK have overall been the most consistent sides (post Gayle’s entry)
I am happy that MI lost the match. I don’t think they deserve to win IPL. From the first day i put my money on CSK and i am sure they will be the champion. I Still feel CSK and KKR is and was the most balanced side in this year.Though KKR is in not in the race but if you see whichever match the lost they lost with fighting.
In this same thread i said in some fields Dhoni is ahead of Sachin. But most of the members belive that sachin has the best cricket brain and Dhoni is media made star. But i will say he is the second worst captain in IPL history. First is Yuvraj. Both look clueless in the field with np plan B. In the 4 year i never heard a commentrator or expert who said some good thing about his captaincy. Here many member has been already cited the ex to open bowling with Abu nachim so i won’t go there. The defineing moment for me of sachin’s poor captaincy was lat year final. Last year pollard was in fine form and he played some explosive innings to hit 30-40 runs. But in the final sachin hold him back till the match was lost.
And as we are discussing sachin, I don’t like him because, cricketing reason everybode discussed in detail, i am adding some off the field reason..
1-When he was gifted Ferari he asked for exmption from custom duty while he could pay tax.
2- In Mike Dennis-Ball tampering case, i belive sachin had broken the law. The picture clearly showed he tampered the seam of the ball with his nail. I know as a spinner he can’t get benifeted with ball tampering but rule is rule.
3- In last year IPL there was a match between RCB Vs MI. Tendulkar took a catch of Dravid. Ball was bounced before sachin still he asked for catch out. But dravid didn’t leave his ground and asked to 3rd umpire. That time Sunil gavaskar was in the commentry box and he said dravid played with sachin since 15-16 year so he should know sachin would never ask for wrong decision. If tendulkar said it was a clean catch then he must belive him. But TV replay clearly showed bowl bounced before sachin(Remember how whole india reacted against ponting in sydney test)
4- Bharat Ratna for sachin issue. We all know and accept the fact that sachin make india proud but the way his supporter is building pressure on government to give him bharat ratna is pethatic. Everytime he do something worthwhile with whole country govrnment also congrats him. GOI gave him so many awards. He was the first recipent of Rajiv Gandhi khel ratna award. Now someone can say that it is sachin’s fans who is building pressure and there is no fault of sachin but i say he is fuling the fire. He can ask his fans to calm down. Whenever his time will come the GOI will consider it but in any given opportunity he say yes i want Bharat ratna. While the fact is that in present scinario there is no rule to give Bharat Ratna to sportsperson. May be in future GOI change it. But till then why sachin is noy saying to his fans that don’t build pressure on government. Though i think if GOI changes its rule Dhyanchand should be the first sportsperson to gat bharat ratna.
5- As everyone of you know that sachin is making a house. BMC has given him the permission to certain FSR(Floor space ratio) and that was final as per existin law. But he wanted extra FSR to make GYM in the roof but state government and BMC refused. Then many pepole came in his support (even raj thakrey) they asked to bend the rule for sachin because he is ‘Pride of india’ but authority didn’t make exception. In the whole controversy sachin never said i respect the law and i don’t support my fans demand who want to bend the rule for me.
6- Yesterday he show honesty and asked selector to give hime rest from WI tour because he want to spend some quality time with his family. Though he can take rest from ODI and can play in TEST. But still i will not go to country Vs club debate. But is past he didn’t show this type of honesty. Whenever he wanted rest he just say i am suffring from this or that injury and after sometime without any fitness test he come back into team. I think if you are injured then first you should prove your fitness first and then come back in the team. That is rule. But there are always exception for him and nobody dare to say him follow the rule.
In an over there are six delivery. So these are my legimate(atleast i think so) SIXER against Sachin. But still if someone think there is a no ball. This is my exter delivery.
7- Sachin lied in the monkeygate controversy between symmo-Bhajji.How am i so sure. Because Bhajji told this to a friend of mine. In an off the record chat bhajji said “na to main dhoodh ka dhula hoon, Na hi symonds. Saloon nai poore match main beimani ki. waise bhi desh ki izzat ka mamla tha. aise main agar sachin bhai ne mere support main bola to kya galat kiya.”
Awesome start by Chennai. Murali Vijay making me eat my words. Outscoring Hussey by some measure. And the running between the wickets has been to die for. 121 off 12 overs, so far.
At work today— so missing the match unfortunately.
Is this the only final or a best f three sorts?
Murali vijay scoring
Something- that’s a surprise!!!
it’s 182 in 17.5. They’ll have an enormous score and unless Gayle can outdo even himself it’s not going to happen. And I think unlike Mumbai they were smart to bat first.
Feel sorry for Gayle…he was exceptional thro the tournament and deserved to be on the winning side imo. But as someone was saying the other day, this format is too unpredictable!
Btw, don’t you guys think Ashwin needs a permanent spot in the ODI side at the min? He has been way better then Bajji the last year or so..
LOL!
We have a few of those here. They consider that attitude as being reasonable. They advise against being passionate and straddle both isdes of fence and speak from both sides of their mouth. Am sure there bum is ultra sore.
Satyam, if this were Sachin ie score thro the tournament, take your team to the final and then perish chasing a huge target in the SECOND Innings, I can only imagine what the Sachin baiters would have said….just saying..
Anyways, kudos to Gayle, wonderful exhibition of power hitting, but this is CSK’s to lose from here on…I am traditionalist and hate 20-20 and what its doing to my beloved game, but thats what $$$ do for a sport I guess…meanwhile MSD adds another feather to his cap, he simply cant seem to do any wrong…
absolutely! Much as when Sachin scores a century he is blamed if he doesn’t last right to the very end.. meanwhile one should ask why Sehwag couldn’t take Delhi to the final 4 at the very least! So yeah he was a top scorer and so on but so what?! The team didn’t get anywhere! This might sound absurd but these are exactly the questions Sachin has faced all his life!
Guys – What do you think of the Ashwin vs Bhajji debate. Don’t you think Ashwin deserves to replace Bhajji in the side? I am sure he has done enough to warrant a permanent place. Thoughts?
On thing that made me happy about this win is MI loss. Otherwise we will be hearing Sachin is great. Sachin is the ultimate. Sachin is the Sun , Moon and greater than God etc. Any team win i would have supported.
I half expected that Dhoni will once again say that he won this IPL for Sachin.
I would like to hear the names of standard gods like Ram, Ganesh, Allah, Christ etc. At the most I cam accept Gandhi and Nelson Mandela. Sachin is hero like Bachchan. While the Khans are brats.
@dj You Seem to be terribly misinformed regarding Sachin…..But its your personal choice not liking sachin…..
But fact is Sachin is by far most loved cricketer of all time,,,,,,Certain Bradman included,,,,and to some who has not done much research on Bradman,,,,He don’t have a humble personality like a sachin…….Infact not liked by his own teammate….Here in indian ….”Team India ” Wanted to win WC 2011 for Sachin not for “India” the Country….
Shewag,Dhoni,Shresshant,Harbhajan,Yuvraj,,,,,all claims sachin as god….do you feel they have beacame insane to call a mortal a god????
No It about Sachin the wonder,,,,More you see his batting more one become mesmerize how he can do it day in and day out…….WC 2 highest Scorer,IPL4 2 highest run Scorer,,,,
Showing some random point and claming that sun has black mark…Will be not enough for ….Please try comming with some more valid point next time….
and you like it or not Sachin will get Bharat Ratna,,,,,Its Destined.
How many people know who were last season’s Nobel recipients? How many know about Amartya Sen and his works? Did they give Bharat Ratna to Netaji or Bhagat Singh? I think even Ratan Tata is yet to get that honour. If Sachin gets, the fans of Dhyan chand will start their clamour. Why only cricket gods? Let Tennis gods, Chess gods, Hockey gods also go for it. That is the reason we have Khel Ratna awars and Dadasaheb Phalke awards.
During our World Cup win, many Sachin’s fans were not happy. Because on that particular day someone else Dhoni and Gambhir made the win possible though Sachin slogged for that win to become possible. And Sachin’s fans were more bothered about his centuries than the winning part. This is what is called getting priorities wrong. We want more stars not gods. Legends okay. We make Rajnikant god, Sachin god, Bachchan god. This business of gods makes the fans fanatics and they become intolerant of even any positive criticism of their gods. If any other person takes their place, they behave as though their gods superiority is being questioned and getting negative about them. next they will even buy an aura if possible and construct temples just as they do in the South. Will we ever see temples, even statues for Tom hanks, Steffi Graf or Federer? Or even for Michael Jackson?
Just because I raised some points, i am being labelled as not liking Sachin. I will question even my father , mother , grandparents if I feel that there is some ground for That does not mean that i dont like them. I just cannot follow anyone blindly. God or godmen or godwomen.
Why we tend to go overboard? Whether it is criticism or adulation.
During our World Cup win, many Sachin’s fans were not happy. Because on that particular day someone else Dhoni and Gambhir made the win possible though Sachin slogged for that win to become possible. And Sachin’s fans were more bothered about his centuries than the winning part.
This is an absolutely dishonest statement. And I’m not even the biggest Sachin fan out there. As to answer why we make Gods out of Bachchan, Sachin, Rajnikant… when the West doesn’t do so with their Michael Jacksons and Steffi Grafs. Well, most natural reason there is the cultural difference. We are a nation of rich mythologies and 33 crore Gods and Goddesses. It is a part of our heritage to ‘find’ the ‘God’ in a person’s achievements. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, the non-exclusivity of ‘godliness’ only bodes well for the future of humanity, and everyone should be encouraged to do this. Really!
Secondly, and this is the obvious reason, the achievements of a Bachchan and Sachin, though achievements in their respective fields, transcend their professions. So a Bachchan and his films have a certain sociological link that is tied in to the nation’s identity. Similarly for Sachin. To a nation of billions where a lot has changed over the last two decades, it is almost reassuringly calming to know that Sachin is the one constant. He quite literally bridges the gap between a teenaged cricket fan of today and a cricket fan well in his forties today who had begun becoming a fan of Sachin in his 20s.
Even otherwise, and I am a big Michael Jackson fan, it is difficult to ‘idolize’ someone who battled charges of paedophilia for a large part of his career. And even then, don’t you tell me that MJ didn’t enjoy almost fanatic levels of fandom and worship.
I have answered to Rajen which will also answer your points.
When Indians worship, they try to attribute the virtues of infallibility to their icons and they express a level of intolerance with any opposite point of view. An irrational childish behaviour.
In a way it is like this. Most of us love our children to distraction and try to defend them under any circumstance. Even if our child is not that angel that we fiercely try to believe. When we try to adopt an idol, we instantly make him our child and everything follows. We get into a defensive mode all red faced and angry. We get protective. The icon becomes our child and god.
I will agree Sachin as Captain has not done well….But Sachin as Player is above everyone…
Highest Run Scorer in ODI History
Highest Run Scorer in Test History
Dont play T20 but wait in ipl(2nd highest run scorer behind raina,sachin has played less match).
So , he is as complete as anyone can ever get.
That why Sunil Gavaskar has always a twinkle in his eye when he sees sachin bat,,,,Because ones he stop playing….Cricket will not be Cricket.
Sports his not only about winning or losing ,it more about seeing magician like Lara,Sachin,Federer,Nadal,messi and many more in action and feeling happy for those amazing moments.
I agree with vatikala that one of the reasons RCB lost is they over played themeselves.. two matches played in less than 24 hours! and the previous two in close succession? Undoubtedly they were exhaused by the time the final came..
You cant blame these players.. the longest IPL begins 5 days after the World Cup victory! Now post-IPL, they’retouring the Windies followed by England!
Someone needs to hit these idiot BCCI members, who’ve supposedly never held a bat in their hand, that these cricketers arent dogs or machines.. and they need proper rest before they can think of going on another tour!
So I can understand the decision of Tendulkar or Dhoni or Yuvraaj who’ve decided not to go to West Indies. and some of the news channels are reporting that these cricketers are only interested to play club cricket instead of playing for the nation! Its time the Government does something to ensure ethical reporting and sack the BCCI members. These fcukers need to be replaced by prominent n experienced ex-cricketers like Shastri or Gavaskar
In a way it is a blessings for some. They will get a chance to showcase their talents or lack of it.
BCCI will kill its golden goose if it goes on like this.
Missed both IPL final and the Barcelona victory since was working– still on the go!!!
Congrats to the ice- man dhoni—
Knows how to give n get the best at the crunch….
Ps— the whole indian team needs to be rested … Enjf new players who will be hungry for a chance–
Also time has come that cricket helps out other poorer sports in india rather than monopolisin the whole sponsorships and endorsements !!!
Time to for it back — BCCI and the likes of sachin and dhoni!!!
Re:
During our World Cup win, many Sachin’s fans were not happy.
I have seen some idiotic, some blatantly dishonest and some really pathetic comments. This one has to take the cake.
Really? Can you point one reasonable Indain who was not happy that day, let alone Sachin fans? What a ridiculously stupid, imbecilic and dishonest claim?
Have you read papers and comments TOI especially?
Have you read about that boy in Mandya who committed suicide due to thais reason?
This happens in other fields also. And also in bollywood and other woods. Many love to see their icon winning the lauresls.
That is why two superstars hesitate to work in the same movie. The movie may be highly successful. That is why some stars try to forget such movies. And their fans do the same.
I love the way you select your adjectives.
Sorry for that rather acidic comment.
But, it is frustrating to have to repeatedly avow one’s preference for an Indain victory over a great Sachin performance. This is such an abyssmal tactic employed by Sachin baiters everywhere.
The accusation that Sachin fans root for his century as opposed to an Indian victory. If a DJ or an Admin makes such claims, I wouldnt bat an eye lid as I dont expect anything different. Coming from you, it WAS a surprise. BTW, I did say ‘reasonable’I Indians. There are losers on both sides of the argument who will make ridiculous comments that I wouldnt put much stock in.
There is a small but a significant minority that gets riled by the praise and appreciation for Sachin. I am not sure what drives it and my feeling is ( as with most things in life ), there are several forces at play. For some it is the need to be a contrarian,for some it is jealousy, for sonme it is their own sense of inadequacy, for some it is a reflection of an anti-Mumbai sentiemnt, for some a means to gain attention
and for a rare bird it is an honest but misguided sense that he is getting undeserved acclaim.
@
If a DJ makes such claims, I wouldnt bat an eye lid as I dont expect anything different.
If you go to some news paper’s site or other forums then you can feel that there must be some logic (ok reason) that so many people in so many forums think that sachin and sachin’s fans want records rather then indian victory. Even some expert also think so.
@
For some it is the need to be a contrarian,for some it is jealousy, for some it is their own sense of inadequacy, for some it is a reflection of an anti-Mumbai sentiemnt, for some a means to gain attention.
Hamari Aukaat kya hai bhayya ki hum Sachin se jealousy feel karain. Mumbai main rehta hoon so there is nothing like anti- mumbai sentiment.
In the same standard i can say your haterd to SRK i s based on above mention reason+ you are anti muslim. How we prove these sweeping aligation ?
April 5, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Like the Pune logo.
April 5, 2011 at 2:19 PM
Someone commented on Twitter that if the World Cup is a full night of good sex, IPL is an afternoon of surfing porn.
But what the hell, desis love their porn
April 5, 2011 at 2:43 PM
Ha!
April 5, 2011 at 2:26 PM
On a serious note, I wouldn’t want to swap jobs with an Indian cricketer right now. I don’t think I’d like to lift a bat or ball just 5 days after the greatest triumph of my life. It’s just freaking insane!
April 5, 2011 at 2:51 PM
BCCI is insane
April 5, 2011 at 4:45 PM
IPL is the biggest scam amongst the 2G, CWG and the Delhi Airport privatisation ones (the latter and perhaps the 3G haven’t come out yet!)
April 5, 2011 at 8:08 PM
can anybody tell me whose logo is under Mumbai INDIANS..by the way i think the KOCHI team has the best logo so far..which is not seen here!
April 5, 2011 at 8:12 PM
that is Kochi under Mumbai. But here’s the image enlarged:
I prefer Pune:
April 6, 2011 at 2:48 AM
but Kochi team is named after its ellephants..kochi tuskers and logo is different from this..?
April 8, 2011 at 8:17 AM
you’re right.. I think it was Bruisers and then they changed it to Tuskers:
says ‘terrific’ here but I don’t think that’s part of the name anymore. Think this change came late anyway because I can’t find any image with the logos of all the teams that has Tuskers. It’s Bruisers everywhere.
April 8, 2011 at 8:14 AM
SRK has beefed up Kolkata once again:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/indian-premier-league-2011/content/current/story/509864.html
April 8, 2011 at 1:21 PM
What’s the best site (if any) to get free live online coverage of ipl4 on iPhone . Thanx
April 8, 2011 at 1:29 PM
KKR do have a solid four with Gambhir,Lee,Kallis and Pathan.
April 8, 2011 at 1:37 PM
yes the team should do very well with this foursome. If it still doesn’t happen SRK should hang up his hat!
April 8, 2011 at 1:35 PM
Alex,
IMO PPVcricket is pretty good.$19.99 for the IPL package. There may be free sites too but am afraid about security issues.
April 8, 2011 at 1:37 PM
yes absolutely.. it’s just not worth it to try out the free stuff..
April 8, 2011 at 1:53 PM
How the hell did Srk manage to rope in those four into kkr.
Did he put himself up for……..
Seems Srk has a good combination this time–but there is something about kkr that spells doom!!!!
April 8, 2011 at 1:55 PM
So KKR continues its losing streak…
April 8, 2011 at 1:57 PM
they almost pulled it off. I think that dot ball in the last over did the trick for Chennai.
April 8, 2011 at 2:01 PM
KKR may win few games but not the title..
they dropped so many catches…
April 8, 2011 at 2:38 PM
I told u”kkr spells doom” BEFORe I knew anything about this game (bad timing premature after world cup).
Did someone notice that the way The ipl4 schedule has been drawn up, it wants / assumes/ needs india to perform badly in the world cup. They never thought india will Reach beyond the quarter final stage!!
April 8, 2011 at 2:49 PM
The IPL has the sense of an anti-climax after the WC. Not sure if it’s just me or if this is more of a general feeling out there.
April 9, 2011 at 6:44 AM
Even I felt so. And it is a bit difficult to watch Dhoni and Gambhir as antagonists so soon, the duo who won the Cup for us.
April 8, 2011 at 2:56 PM
Agreed Satyam tbh everyone wanted India to win the WC but how many did really believe..IPL organisers didnt. Oh well its all good to me..dont mind the IPL as much as others..more cricket for me..after that looking forward to India coming to England..
Look forward Satyam..Its obvious in the Tests vs England they will have Ishant, Zaheer and bhaji ..but I hope they make RP Singh rediscover his form and sustain it he was sensational last time around..The lad is still young to do well next few years..Also India really need Ishant to step it up now so he can lead the attack once Zaheer retires..We need more then the batting I think one or two pacers to help India sustain at the top..
Its unfortunate..RP singh even Ishant not quiet up to thier debut year pace..We need more pacers and for that matter..another spinner or two ..Bhaji wont be around forever and no one has really filled Anil Kumbles boots..Though I believe Ashwin can so need another spinner and one or two pacers.. What do you think Satyam?
April 8, 2011 at 3:04 PM
There is one bowlet Chahar in Rajasthan Royals who is getting high praise coz he is grt swing bowler both sides
April 9, 2011 at 1:30 AM
Alex – cant u watch u watch live ipl on youtube/ipl ??
i am bemused at what u guys are saying package and all that is it valid only for india??
April 9, 2011 at 2:08 AM
Noticed that the ‘toe injury’ has not prevented SRK from doing his usual stuff!
April 9, 2011 at 2:22 AM
For anyone living in Eng
Guyz IPL is shown for free on ITV 4. They started showing it on ITV 4 from last year. I’m no ipl follower but thought I’d inform all you cricket enthusiasts. The next cricket I’m really looking forward to is the text series of Eng v India.
April 9, 2011 at 2:24 AM
The next cricket series
April 9, 2011 at 3:13 AM
yeah, same here — IPL seems quite stale in between the World Cup and the eagerly awaited test series…
April 9, 2011 at 3:42 AM
Chennai’s victory yesterday was a hard fought one. But it also emphasizes Dhoni’s remarkable poise during KKR’s onslaught. He ‘knew’ the tide would change once the ball got softer. Apart from scoring 29 runs, he ran out Yusuf Pathan (a brilliant piece of fielding) and was involved in 3 stumpings!
Gambhir missed a trick or two (or so it seems) by coming way down the order. He was impressive as a captain in the ODI series against New Zealand, where India blanked NZ 5-0 with a second-string side, but in yesterday’s match, he probably got it wrong. A thrilling finish, nonetheless. The Chennai wicket wasn’t a typical T20 one and provided help for the bowlers as well. That’s how wickets should be made.
April 9, 2011 at 4:02 AM
Hurray
Ipl4 shown live on ITV4 free for anyone in the UK
Heck– means so much more hours wasted— lol
April 9, 2011 at 4:15 AM
That “poise” and “cool” is typical of dhoni…
Read somewhere that he practises yoga, like dravid. Think yoga should be essential for the whole team.
He also has quite an in-depth understanding of how the game works and the effect of various conditions.
April 9, 2011 at 4:44 AM
This particular article sums it up best:
http://indiauncut.com/iublog/article/monkeys-using-calculators/
April 9, 2011 at 5:08 AM
Thanx Saket for that good link.
It seems that u have STILL not recovered after the South african untimely exit strengthening their “choker” tag—something u had been opposing vehmently. lol
Suspect that this put u off the world cup altogether although there was some “urgent trip” hahahaha
Cmon get over it now—suggest u enjoy indias WC victory–lol
April 9, 2011 at 5:40 AM
@saket- disagreed with that article. i guess simple thing is-
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
(stating in light hearted manner about media interpretations.)
April 9, 2011 at 6:15 AM
gambhir was (surprisingly to me) the costliest signing this year.
So why did he have to bring himself down to no6 in the kkr match vs chennai.
Strange wierd tactics by kkr as always!
April 9, 2011 at 8:41 AM
Deepak chahar of RR in ranji..
April 9, 2011 at 9:14 AM
On dish neo cricket is free which covers IPL at least in US. It also has live call in
April 9, 2011 at 10:18 AM
DC’s jinx at home ground continues
April 9, 2011 at 10:20 AM
Rajasthan Royals are studded with match winners.
April 9, 2011 at 1:36 PM
Notice something—Lots of overseas “past their prime” guys just “hanging along” IPL teams as various fancy versions of “support staff” and earning mega bucks.
U do understand a coach and even separate bowling, batting and fielding “consultants”, but in addition most teams have really fancy overseas tag alongs in the name of psychiatric and sports medicine “consultants”.
NOT sure they are needed/ worth it even for the novelty value.
Each of these “hangers on” may be charging more than the entire budget of say the indian national hockey team.
KNow that cricket due to its popularity self-sustains, but it is incumbent upon the govt authorities to “audit” and put a quota system wherein a small percent of their investment into ciricket HAS to go for indias other poorer sports. This will go a long way in avoiding blushes in olympics where a bronze medal winner looks like a v v rare entity
April 10, 2011 at 3:28 AM
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/slow-pitch/773438/0
April 10, 2011 at 6:30 AM
@munna- i am sorry i cant find satyamshot link, but below is something i wrote which i feel some ideas can be devoloped in to movies for our sporting legends. on google i got ng linbk of same article.
would like to know ur views, as i feel sachin, ganguly, 1983 provide real fodder and base for gre8 cinema
http://www.naachgaana.com/2010/12/20/think-imagine-share-dada-the-god-of-offside-sourav-ganguly-story/
April 10, 2011 at 6:57 AM
malingas first 2 overs against delhi were interesting and showed how lethal the “linger” can be.
Sehwag hit bhajji for 10 runs in the first over and threw him out of the attack.
Malinga came back to eliver an unplayable yorker to uproot warners stumps, then did the same to chand. The next ball sehwag however, guided malinga for a four—showed the “gulf” in class.
Sehwag however was run out by an invigorated sachin…..eventful stuff
April 10, 2011 at 7:45 AM
@Alex
See how “slinger” as u call him is running havoc on DD team… it seems he delivers those unplayable yorkers on demand…
April 10, 2011 at 7:57 AM
DD bundled up below 100, 95 precise. Malinga had 5 wicket haul.
April 10, 2011 at 8:10 AM
yeah he just destroyed Delhi..
April 10, 2011 at 9:28 AM
yes iamthat.
The slinger really nailed it. He seems to be able to delver “toe crushers” at will and even in his sleep!!
Heard that he practises without stumps with just a pair of boots to aim at …and he does it day in and day out.
What adds to it is the angel. how low down his ball realease is and how close to the umpires central position he delivers the ball. HAs implications in getting in lower bounce, and given the line of ball, getting an LBW is that much easier…
ONe cannot and should not take away from malingas lethal performances recently.
Also in the WC final, he NEARLY delivered the early crucial twin blows which needed the best of the indian famed batting and captain….
April 10, 2011 at 9:32 AM
Mumbai win easily and tendulkar topscores again from mumbai.
ON the sky spoirts commentary UK panel, there is already talk about tendulkar winning the “ONLY” trophy to elude hi8m–NOW IPL…
Think this is a bit too much—does 10dulkar HAVE to win everything under the sun to prove anything further.
camon guyz –give him a break/.
Also saw a rejuventated and “loosened up” tendulkar who was playing in a more carefree manner—seems this is a warning to bowlers that sachin is far from over!!!
April 10, 2011 at 9:41 AM
Man Sachin ain’t human!
April 10, 2011 at 9:44 AM
You have to see it believe it satyam, That man was fielding like 20 yr kid and hitting stumps regularly… He will now play for freely and fearlessly and that is baaaaaaaaddddddddddd news to bowlers…
April 10, 2011 at 1:51 PM
yeah Sachin has another goal now, winning the IPL! Last year Mumbai were very good but lost eventually. After the WC Sachin will try his hardest at this format. LOL!
April 10, 2011 at 9:46 AM
MAlinga keeps it simple and doesnt try fancy stuff.He knows his wierdo action favors him (now that it has been allowed). He has “pace” and “change in pace” and the “toe crusher”–he sticks to these and tries to do it well.
Saw a certain earnestness and focus in him. Also liked the way he just followed sachins instructions and field settings without even batting an eyelid.
He did not even bothered about ANY fied placing which appeared irrelevant.
If a malinga like bowler (or two)gets added to the current indian team, it may appraoch the supremacy of the WI or Aus teams at their respective peaks.
BUt the moment of the day (besides Malingas carnage), was the enthusiasm with which sachin rushed to run the rampaging sehwag out!!
April 10, 2011 at 9:49 AM
There was someting ominous for bowlers the way sachin was prancing around like a kid….
He seemed to have “unhinged” himself from all pressures and targets and was looking like enjoying himself.
ONly an injury can prevent another avalanche of runs in the next year or two–mark my words
April 11, 2011 at 8:09 AM
check out this brutal Shane Watson inning.. now has the record for most sixes in a one day game.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/bangladesh-v-australia-2011/engine/current/match/503364.html
April 11, 2011 at 8:36 AM
Was going to post something about this; it’s unbelievable. He scored 80% of the team’s total — don’t think it’s ever been done before. He scored his 100 of 69 balls, which means he scored 85 odd of the next 27 balls!
But irrespective of these stats, he’s a quality player. The best player in the current Australian squad — in all 3 formats! And it’s even better if one watches him in test matches. He’s not a butcher like Hayden, but also has some classy shots in his kitty.
April 11, 2011 at 10:02 AM
cant wait for him to come to RR!
April 11, 2011 at 6:08 PM
Excpetional stuff from shane watson. Even his bolwing is much better than it misleadingly appears. NIce to hear from you saket. Hope u have recovered from the south african exit now–hahahaha
http://mumbaimirror.com/article/30/2011041120110411034143573546afe82/Game-Set-Match.html
All the best to them—appears a good thought out match!!
April 11, 2011 at 6:55 PM
Alex dude, nice to see that you are still trying to pull my leg. Not that I’ve got a problem with that, but just to let you know, I am NOT a South African national.
I admire their cricket team’s sense of discipline, their basics (including ground fielding) and since I’ve always been partial to quick bowlers in cricket, happen to be a fan of Steyn & Morkel. This is a team that chooses to leave Albie Morkel out! I can only have respect for them.
Having said that, I doubt there are few, if any, avid followers of Indian cricket as I am. If there were a craziness quotient for that, I’d be sure to fall in the top heap. But of course, that won’t stop you from cracking another South African “choke” joke at my expense, but that’s your prerogative…
April 11, 2011 at 7:10 PM
Eden Gardens, one of the greatest cricket stadiums in the world, had an audience of 35,000 in the South Africa Vs Ireland game, but only 20,000 for KKR Vs DC. Love that stat. Even the cameras couldn’t hide the empty rows, when the instructions were probably to display fan enthusiasm. In Kolkata, SRK isn’t even one fifth as popular as a retired Dada!
April 12, 2011 at 3:40 AM
Dada affect… now srk has given stmnt that we want to win for dada…Lol..
sometimes reality bites you hard
April 12, 2011 at 6:01 AM
but i am sure everyone has to move on.. players go.. but franchise have to remain!!!
but heres the problem franchise of ipl dont have cult following of say football.. where even when beckham, ronaldo leaves us.. we bid good bye but retain support for manager and club
April 12, 2011 at 6:22 AM
but how old is soccer leagues?? ipl is just 3 yrs old n with highs n ebbs, and lot of churning it will evolve there…
ipl is just 3 yr old but SRT is 21 yrs cricket old so naturally affliation with SRT will prevail… that is not the case with soccer, some leagues are there centuries old, but they n fans may have gone thru same at begining
April 12, 2011 at 6:23 AM
2nd para was just example
April 12, 2011 at 7:32 AM
@iamthat- error .. when i said ipl dont have cult following, i meant the same that they are new, just that going for small comment i missed out a material word it should have read-
“young Ipl”
April 12, 2011 at 1:20 PM
Don’t know how many times I’ve said this but Sachin defies the imagination.. just defies it in every conceivable sense. One of the greatest sports figures ever, not just cricket. I pity anyone who has the slightest doubt about this. It’s not just about piling up the stats and so on. This man’s lust for the game, his incredible ability to show up with this kind of passion and will after almost a quarter of a century in the game and to be able to play it at the level he does just reconfigures any notion of greatness one could possibly have.
April 12, 2011 at 1:47 PM
Words fail… its like explaining something that cant be done, sometimes language is Big handicap, in SRT’s case its
April 12, 2011 at 1:33 PM
“Eden Gardens, one of the greatest cricket stadiums in the world, had an audience of 35,000 in the South Africa Vs Ireland game, but only 20,000 for KKR Vs DC. Love that stat.”—agree saket.
Think the way Ganguly has been treated in the ipl auctions was quite shameful—whatever may be the reason–im sure even if ganguly was to be avoided, this could have been handled better. Ganguly is probably one of the best (if not the best0 indian captains ever—and im not one of his kolkata bengali “blind” fans…lol
ANyhow, nice to hear that you have gotten over the south african exit now…lol
Sachin completing another clinical victory…its getting so preditable.
Hoep zaheer and some crucial players stay fit for the england tour!!
April 12, 2011 at 1:35 PM
about sachin, nothing more to say…
liked rayudus temperament and poise
April 13, 2011 at 7:54 AM
have to hand it to Chennai. Despite being losing two wickets without scoring they are still on their way to a very substantial total.
April 13, 2011 at 8:04 AM
in fact they’re getting to a very big total now! and Dhoni again has been in the zone since the Final! Has a 227 SR here!
April 13, 2011 at 10:20 AM
Impressive performance by Punjab today to get to that total.
April 13, 2011 at 12:03 PM
incredible i just read that boy scored 123 from 60 balls!! amzing!
April 13, 2011 at 12:49 PM
it was an innings where paul hit every bowler mercilessly…….classic innings…….
April 13, 2011 at 1:56 PM
That ‘boy’ is 27. But, yes – a splendid knock.
April 13, 2011 at 2:30 PM
LOL rajen .. my bad.. didnt knew anything about him.. just saw read abt the score!!
April 14, 2011 at 12:24 PM
Irritating to see the dad-son naughty duo of vijay and sid mallya jumping on and off the field as if they bloody own everything under the sun—everytime RCB play.
Good to see Ishant sharma strking some form and getting dilshan…
The sharmas (rohit , ishant), rp singh need to rediscover themselves esp the pacers
April 14, 2011 at 12:30 PM
“The sharmas (rohit , ishant), rp singh need to rediscover themselves esp the pacers”… LOL
April 14, 2011 at 12:26 PM
Zaheer khan sent at one down by rcb.
Nice beauties in the stadium whenever the senior mallya around.
Was interesting to see the likes of sahara chief and mallya surrounded by bollyowood “beauties” and other pseudocelebrities trying to keep them in “good cheer” lol
April 14, 2011 at 12:31 PM
move miserably failed
April 14, 2011 at 5:20 PM
Know that cricket creates its own spnsorship and self sustains, but for a country like india the amount of money being offered with the cricketers –indian, overseas, support staff is obscene and vulgar of epic proportions,
Also it makes the fate of other sporttspersons in india worse.
\Shocking story where 25000rs was offered for losing a leg and it was hiked only after strong protests in the media—
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/i-felt-like-a-beggar-arunima-sinha/196560
April 14, 2011 at 5:24 PM
Think therre should be a “quota system” where every corporate sponsor or fanchisee HAS to donate say 10- 20 percennt to another non cricket sport in india, and a tax exemption may be introduced or some such sop.
Besides, it is embarassing for persistently going medal less in every olympic…
April 15, 2011 at 10:31 AM
How much can they do ? India is already funding and sponsoring cricket worldwide.
April 15, 2011 at 11:31 AM
aNOTHER 50 FROM SRT
April 15, 2011 at 11:52 AM
he’s just on cruise control these days! I am Sachin’s greatest fan but isn’t there something ‘monstrous’ about this kind of talent and will?!
April 15, 2011 at 11:59 AM
he has 5 balls to get to a century!
April 15, 2011 at 12:02 PM
on 99 one ball to go
April 15, 2011 at 12:02 PM
SRT DID IT…
April 15, 2011 at 12:04 PM
100 IN 66 BALLS AT THE AGE OF 38 IN T20: SUPERMAN INDEED
April 15, 2011 at 12:09 PM
his first in this format, for Sachin there are always milestones to cross!
April 15, 2011 at 1:51 PM
McCullum has a huge knock though and Kochi could well win their first game here.
April 15, 2011 at 1:56 PM
and they have indeed won..
April 15, 2011 at 12:03 PM
LOL, got a century on the last ball! In his first three innings this season he’s been unbeaten on 46, 55 and 100!
April 15, 2011 at 12:12 PM
Wow. Not more to say.
April 15, 2011 at 11:44 AM
AB Jr watching the match
April 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM
TAKE A BOW MASTER!!!
I don’t know what you guys feel but I am in that group for people who think that SACHIN still have enough fire and stamina to play the next WORLD CUP too.!!!!
Amit
Dallas,Tx
April 15, 2011 at 4:16 PM
Sometime it surprises me that How mad we indians for the record. No mention of how easyly Kochi chase down that huge total. Everyone is praising SRT. How about Mahela jaywardhne’s sublime innings ?
April 15, 2011 at 4:47 PM
We’re praising sachin for certain specific reasons which shouldn’t be a mystery to anyone!
April 16, 2011 at 2:18 AM
It is called hero worship.
April 15, 2011 at 4:17 PM
Sachin was hitting like Dhoni today. Some of the 4′s and 6′s were shovel shots. The 6 over leg was great. At 38, still the best in the business. Nuff said.
April 15, 2011 at 4:50 PM
one of the commentators said they saw him play a helicopter shot for the first time.
April 15, 2011 at 5:15 PM
Ive stopped commenting /praising sachin to save cyberpace….BUt the compulsive sceptic in me (i didnt see the match but saw only the scorecard) could not miss the EXACT figure of 100no (no less/more)…..
Heard a sky UK commentator saying that Mahela is perhaps the best TIMER in world cricket right now—intially found this absurd, but think he is not off the mark.
MAhela never uses any brute power but still finds the “strength” to regularly reach boundaries with proper shots.
April 16, 2011 at 12:01 AM
Mumbai- Sachin needs to worry abt their bowling and fielding.
Kudos To Kochi..
April 16, 2011 at 11:59 AM
The reinvention of Paul Valthaty!!
BY the way, unrelated– there should be a special “penalty” for batsmen getting out to missed “dilscoops” and “reverse sweeps”–Nothingn more embarassing and foolish than that!
April 16, 2011 at 1:53 PM
Think Indian cricket has probably found a new find in Paul Valthaty…(although its quite early to say…) BUt he does seem the most promising newcomer this IPL!!
April 17, 2011 at 11:50 AM
what a collapse by Rajasthan!
April 17, 2011 at 11:58 AM
LOL it was sad to see it that way.. but i still believe in miracles and that my team would give hard run to kolkatta !!
April 17, 2011 at 12:37 PM
kkr is real good team this time, well balanced one.
April 17, 2011 at 5:16 PM
On paper CSK, MI and KKR have the best teams. RCB are quite good too on paper.
April 17, 2011 at 11:59 AM
April 17, 2011 at 3:19 PM
interesting.. thanks!
April 18, 2011 at 10:08 AM
yup it was for u and all sachin fans
April 17, 2011 at 5:14 PM
I think Dhoni has made the shot his “trademark” .. the most impressive shot I have seen so far this year is AB de villiers hitting a reverse sweep for six off a fast bowler – but really without any leverage. He is a quality player, probably the best improviser around nowadays.
April 17, 2011 at 3:36 PM
strange “regulation”!
ttp://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/more-sports/badminton/India-orders-female-shuttlers-to-wear-skirts/articleshow/8005391.cms
April 18, 2011 at 3:31 PM
cochin defeated csk . wht a grt win ! This team is becoming show stealers of this IPL.
April 18, 2011 at 11:44 PM
Fantastic win. Late comers but great winners. But the colors they wear is too garish and an eye sore. That may be the reason that both MI and CSK were distracted and lost. Hope there are no more jokes about coconut catchers.
April 19, 2011 at 11:41 AM
Just read one post where it said,in the opening match in the eden gardens ,there was a crowd of only 20,000..Hardly surprising looking at the way how big an acon sourav is in Bengal…But if the same instance would have happend to sachin,wankhede would have seen only ghosts…Having said that always believed ,once KKR starts weaning people would come to the Eden Garden in hoards..I thought it would take atleast 4/5 wins..But it happened much earlier than it happend..In sunday’s match,there was a crowd of 50,000 no less and probably the biggest crowd of IPL so far…There is no alternative to victory…
April 20, 2011 at 3:49 AM
mumbai tusked..chennai tusked…whos’ next?..come on terific thunderous kochi tuskers….go kochi gooo
April 20, 2011 at 5:19 AM
i would admit to a kochi fan, after first few amtches i hadnt thought much of them but u lots have proved me wrong, way to go.. and kudos to you.
though i would add with regret that i would have liked the team to be from ahmd instead of kochi.. but htats life.. kudos to kochi!
April 20, 2011 at 2:20 PM
3 in a row for cochin ! This time KKR Goes down . Grt going cochin boys !
April 20, 2011 at 2:34 PM
It seems SACHIN might run away with top scorer trophy in this year IPL
April 20, 2011 at 3:15 PM
Kochi after starting off slow have suddenly become the dark horse team defeating some real heavyweights and more importantly finding ways to win.
April 20, 2011 at 4:10 PM
As in the world cup(and more so here), the key here is to peak at the right time—-towards the end qf, semifinal scenario.
Till then, all a team can do is not to lose consistently and ensure that the next stage is reached.
Wont worry too much about who is winning first and who is coming from behind–although three wins inm a row do increase ones chances and losing continuously like delhi or bang does make it difficult!!
The key is though—How to reach the knockout stages without burning yourselves and getting injuries etc.
After that, chance and the form of key players does make a difference…
April 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM
HOw can Gayle be dropped by west indies–he is perhaps the only world class match winner they have currently!!
Irritating to see the “naughty” mallyas (dad-son) and SRK jumpoing on and off the goround as if they are bearing the whole weight of the world on their shoulders.
Arent there any rules to keep these characters out of the ground?
April 22, 2011 at 8:54 AM
“HOw can Gayle be dropped by west indies–he is perhaps the only world class match winner they have currently!!”
My above words were written BEFORE gayle started hitting KKR out of the park.
Glad i am (again) vindicated by gayle who started out by hitting the biggest six of the IPL so far, just out the flight!!
I mean , guys like sehwag, gayle, dilshan are like gold-dust (although they are not exactly totally comparable)
The times they click is low but when they do—they seal the match on their own.
These guys need patience and nurturing!
April 22, 2011 at 8:57 AM
Love these sort of “comebacks”.
SLAP on the face of the Windies selectors and also KKR (for not handling gayle well)
April 22, 2011 at 9:05 AM
And why the heck, was Gayle not even picked up by anyone in the IPL auction initially.
These sort of guys do have ome temperament issues but thats why the huge entourage of managers and psychologists are there for—to handle these sort of guys and cater to their special needs as long as they are decent needs–lol)
Also the case of ganguly.—The best cpatain and one of the best cricket brains of india having to hope for the sri lankan payers to be called back home for him to get a place in Kochy…
Shameful…
I hope ganguly also gets a chance and does well at that!!!
April 22, 2011 at 9:11 AM
Gayle is a man on a mission today.
Rejected in the IPL auction and then dropped by windies.
NOw he has given a masterclass on T20 “opening”.
Thats why i go on and on about these “special” players like sehwag, gayle, dilshan, yuvraj etc
They will fail more often than succeed and one has to accept that.
They will have the temperament issues.
But when they DO perform, there peak levels far exceed than the so-called peaks of the other “consistent” ones!!!
April 22, 2011 at 9:55 AM
For all my congratulatory tones on gayle, here too a few poiints to add.
What was gayle doing in the world cup and other non ipl games.
He seemed to be slogging and didnt appear to e trying hard enuf.
Today, he underlined that he is one of the cleanest and most brutal players but more importantly he was selective and exerted himself.
IN other words, one gets a sense with the sehwags and gayles that—they play well when the y WANT to—which is a question mark about their giving their 100% in all matches—(which is true for everyone, but in these cases the difference in the effort levels is really high)
April 22, 2011 at 3:58 PM
@alex – just read abt gayle.. absolutely loved it.. and only disappointed that why didnt royals purchase hims
April 23, 2011 at 4:01 AM
Thanx Rooney
April 23, 2011 at 4:30 AM
i hope yaar watson and taylor fire for us
April 23, 2011 at 4:17 AM
http://timesofindia.hotklix.com/link/Entertainment/Bollywood/Deepika-caught-kissing-Sid
April 23, 2011 at 4:37 AM
not sre abut watson and taylor but deepika is surely “firing” up bangalore lol
http://timesofindia.hotklix.com/link/Entertainment/Bollywood/Deepika-caught-kissing-Sid
April 23, 2011 at 11:27 AM
Continuing in the same vein on Gayle/sehwag—
Gayle did it yesterday…
Sehwag hits 3 sixes in three balls —77 off 30 odd balls.
Underlines their iconicity
April 23, 2011 at 1:13 PM
agreed alex i just read the score!! blown away stuff!
Now hussey, marsh batting, latter is simply elegant..
April 24, 2011 at 12:48 PM
Thanx again Rooney..
Enjoying some of dravids sublime vintage shots today (blast from the past)
April 24, 2011 at 1:19 PM
yup same here njoyed dravid, especially shots he plays from pads
and now njoing watson hitting kochi and murali
now this is insane kochi beats mumbai/chennai and would lose to rajasthan, quite unpredictable!
i guess they missed mccullum
April 24, 2011 at 1:23 PM
Yes rooney!
thats the nature of the beast.
In T20, there can be no favorites and nobody can be really bad (within limits)
Its like a “free for all” orgy and anybdoy can fcuk anybody!!!
hahaha
April 24, 2011 at 4:22 PM
alex I think you are too kind on gayle and sehwag. You cannot simply say they perform well only when they want to..The truth is they dont have the techniques to perform consistently ..They will often struggle on seaming pitches..and occasionally flat pitches especially ODIs..What did sehwag do in world cup vs the big teams..Yes when they perform..they are superb but one has to accept thier techniques will fail more often then not..which is why they are dangerous
Having said all that sehwag is abit more consistent then gayle and thats about it and hes more dangerous especially test matches..You know at least in test matches hes always going to score at least 20- 30 runs quickly before getting out and sometimes thats all the rest of the team needs to get going..So gayle and sehwag they are dangerous but they will fail more then not but its when they succeed they are dangerous..
April 25, 2011 at 6:22 PM
Cricketrules— u are right that guyz like sehwag are quite inconsistent esp in one dayers.
Thats not the contention.
Whats the point of discussion is—
A) Inspite of this inconsistency are they worth it–stats show “yes”
B) Yes, he rarely crosses only 30 or 40–
c)Its not only the “speed” but the humiliating way he mauls the “star bowlers” like he did to Steyn recently.
This has a knock on effect on both teams that “sets the tone”
D) All teams nowadays have a lot of expenive entourage of sports psychologists etc. If they have ANY job worth their salt, it should be to work on these sort of mavericks.
Even at their best, the rest of “consistent” guys cannot match these marauders.
An Anu Malik or Pritam even at their best wont suddenly produce a “rehna tu” from Delhi6!!
April 25, 2011 at 6:35 PM
This argument can be turned on its head to suggest that the reason these guys lack consistency is because of the way they play. And, would be true.
There are others who eschew these kind of low percentage shots as they need to provide an anchor. Someone like Sehwag is given a pass when he has a forgettable World Cup ( tho he did have a couple of interesting cameos) because he is a ‘hit or miss’ player. Someone like Sachin would not get a pass as his burden is greater. On his day, Sehwag or Gayle can be a match winner but the team is built to survive even if the under/non performs.
I like Sehwag a lot but consistency is an underrated virtue.
April 25, 2011 at 6:49 PM
Saw Sachin sobbing on telly at Sai babas death…
Incidentally told about this not only by an indian but a russian girl whose parents happen to be his devotees.
The “miracle stories” are there–DOnt have personal experience here but mayvbe someone from andhra or karnataka can shed light on this “phenomenon”
As for Sehwag, a little understood phenomenon is that he is probably the sing;le most reason to indias ascent to the no1 test team. Ironically he is more effective in tests and allows tje indian team those extra few hours to get the other team out twice.
The way he tamed the australian hostile bowling and single handedly turned the tables eg in perth exemplifies.
Again this “consistency” issue can be argues both ways (or more than 2 ways).
And to add–sehwag doesnt have the same impact/ consistency in the one dayers or T20s since there are many other “power hitters” there.
Wjhat happens to these “power hitters” in tests??
what has yuvraj or raina or yusuf pathan opr even dhoni done in tests?
They are no less in “slogging” or hitting sixes.
It takes a different mindset and skill set to do the SAME in test matches.
Sehwag not only scores but breaks the “mental backbone” of the bowlers in a way which is unique.
And to add—he should not only be taken to task but also investigagted for his “sudden lackadaisal” attitude in this world cup and even the IPL now.
If one reads the above passages on Gayle, one gets a morose feeling that these gus play WHEN they want to (which is unacceptable)…
April 25, 2011 at 7:04 PM
I dont think Sehwag ever gives less than 100% but with his style of batting, these ups and downs are bound to happen. He is a savage hitter of the ball and is quite remarkable. His ‘inconsistency’ comes with the territory but yes, his performanc in test matches is amazing. He is a unique talent.
April 25, 2011 at 7:21 PM
“I dont think Sehwag ever gives less than 100%”—Hmmm,,,would like to believe that!
But recently Ive had a bit of a scanner on sehwag and gayle.
Its not been a schizophrenic paranoid but dissecting a few subtle hints.
Its not that these guys deliberately underperform. But the gulf between their “efforts” is disproprtionate.
If there is ANY role of a sports psychologist,its not for the likes of sachin, dhoni and poor dravid..
And these sort of sehwag-like creatures are visible not only in sports but at workplace as well.
A potential area where lots can be done to optimise output & something im currently wokring on (on the side)..think i need a break now lol
April 26, 2011 at 6:18 PM
sehwag is highly unpredictable
when he is in good form he scores to much … allmost the major part of team score and when he is out of form even that lasts long
just some time back he was out of the team for close to 1 and half years and again he came back recently with 6 test hundreds in no time
u just can’t change his game thats his style…
but ya in his good patch he will score much more than others and will be more impactful than others
April 27, 2011 at 12:39 PM
what’s going on here? Kochi are 6/5 chasing Deccan’s 129!!!
April 27, 2011 at 12:45 PM
Good to see the return to form of ishant sharma and even rp Singh .
Unlike batsmen, pacers are in shiort supply!!
Most or maybe all the “seniors” fromthe wc need to be rested for the WI tour…
April 29, 2011 at 9:16 AM
remarkable Mumbai/Rajasthan match.. Mumbai scored just 94 in 20 overs. Rajasthan meanwhile have 58 in 12.3!
April 29, 2011 at 9:47 AM
Mumbai had a meltdown today!
April 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM
caught unaware by the pitch, especially when SRT was out.
April 30, 2011 at 7:52 AM
Sehwag playing Gem of an innings considering the pitch
May 3, 2011 at 3:34 AM
ganguly is back in pune warriors under one of his disciple yuvi
will be very interesting now…. support for him has always been immense in south and pune region
May 3, 2011 at 10:57 AM
Some food (hopefully) for thought:
http://saketuvaach.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/what-makes-an-ideal-t-20-batsman/
Next up, T-20 bowlers. Depends on when I can make time though.
May 3, 2011 at 11:02 AM
Also one more parameter, how many dot balls, to show how frequently n easily batsman is able to rotate strike, IMO.
May 3, 2011 at 2:32 PM
I don’t think singles are as important in T-20s as they are in ODIs. In T-20s, the first 6 overs and the last five don’t benefit from singles.
That leaves the middle 9 where strike rotation comes into play. Here too, borrowing a term from baseball, the extra-base hits, or twos/threes become more important. Someone playing between overs 6-15 should be a very good runner and be willing to convert ones into twos. The ability to hit boundaries in overs 6-15 is an asset worth its weight in gold. In short, taking quick singles isn’t exactly a big virtue in T-20. This much is the least that’s expected from T-20 batsmen.
May 3, 2011 at 2:36 PM
As for “dot” balls, I think that’s factored in the overall strike-rate of a batsman. In the frenetic pace of T-20 cricket, is it better to run more “singles” or is it better to hit boundaries and play the odd dot ball?
May 3, 2011 at 11:13 AM
Interesting piece Saket. My only minor quibble here is that you might have chosen as a counter-example in the initial portion someone other than Sachin who despite everything nonetheless started playing in the IPL when he was much much older.
May 3, 2011 at 2:46 PM
On the contrary, I chose Sachin because he has an outstanding IPL record. Shaun Marsh isn’t even a regular in the Australian side, but in the IPL, he’s the best batsman, by some distance.
Besides, my main aim was to suggest a method to compare a batsman’s performance in the T-20 format; to provide a statistical yardstick. Nothing more, nothing less.
May 3, 2011 at 3:07 PM
True he has a good record here but consider what it might have been had this format been around in the 90s!
I guess I am guilty of ‘policing’ things a bit too much where Sachin is concerned!
May 3, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Interesting stuff, Saket. Will have to think it over before I can say that I agree 100%.
You HAVE taken into consideration the batting position, average and strike rate which are three most important parameters. But, like all forms of cricket what influences these statiistics is what therest of the team is doing and that is frequently lost in looking at the the pure numbers. I think one should factor in what percentage of teams’ total scores do these players contribute.
May 3, 2011 at 3:10 PM
fair point
May 4, 2011 at 3:18 PM
I think that part is factored in a batsman’s average, at least to some extent. If 160 is the average score, and 150 runs come from the bat after taking away 10 “extras” then a batsman’s average, over a period of time, gives a good indication of his contribution to the team’s total.
May 3, 2011 at 3:20 PM
Hmmm….so saket has started his own blog—all the best.
May 4, 2011 at 3:19 PM
Nope. Didn’t know how to insert tables while replying to posts here.
May 4, 2011 at 12:37 AM
One more win for KKR and they are on the top of table now.Just by eliminating Dada from d team there is a dramatic change.
May 4, 2011 at 1:04 AM
its not about win or loss
dada was never handed a consistent team infact in one if the season we even had rotating captain ……
top management handed things badly in early season and ganguly was chosen as blame scapegoat
the same gambhir struggled as captain for delhi earlier………..
btw win or loss kkr has almost lost all hi
May 4, 2011 at 1:05 AM
its not about win or loss
dada was never handed a consistent team infact in one if the season we even had rotating captain ……
top management handed things badly in early season and ganguly was chosen as blame scapegoat
the same gambhir struggled as captain for delhi earlier………..
btw win or loss kkr has almost lost all monetary business
May 4, 2011 at 1:10 AM
infact being a hardconre sachin fans there are certain facts which will never be ignored:
from the time of his debut to end ganguly was the most sucessful indian odi batsman with close to 11 and half thousand runs ( the close second was sachin tendulkar with close to 10,800 runs) in that period
the fastest to reach 10,000 runs and made one of the most memorable comecak from 2006 when the chips where down
the time when indian cricket was at its all time low ( after fixing saga in 99 and cricket allmost lost his popularity in india) … ganguly took over as captain and bult the team from scratch and was instrumental in removing regionalism from indian cricket to great deal
May 4, 2011 at 1:16 AM
infact hardly has seen any senior even talking rubbish about the man
he was the one who faught for kumble when his shoulder injury allmost ruined him with bcci for players insurance
he was instrumental in tendulkar surviving his bad patch in 2004-2006 when other seniors where calling from his retirement and exit from team( and ya i mean being dropped)
when dravid’s odi career was allmost finished in late 90′s and early party of his decade he made him keeper to save his career
no one will ever forget how he promoted laxman in second inning in kolkata ( and he made 281 and won the game ) from number 6 in first inning … when the same guy was down and out and that changed his carrer for ever
May 4, 2011 at 1:21 AM
such an iconic figure should have been handled better
i bet if tommorrow there is a match between kkr and pune in edens the same empty stands in eden will fill up and will boo the so called kkr ( with only one local player now )
pune is in bottom now and i bet ganguly in couple of season will do the turnaround more eefectively here
there is a reason still this man command so much of fan following still now
May 4, 2011 at 1:34 AM
from wikipedia:
Wisden ranked him the sixth greatest one day international (ODI) batsman of all time, next to Viv Richards, Sachin Tendulkar, Brian Lara, Dean Jones and Michael Bevan.
May 4, 2011 at 6:56 AM
@iffrononfire
infact hardly has seen any senior even talking rubbish about the man . hardly has seen any senior supporting him the way he sneaks in IPL-4.
May 4, 2011 at 6:59 AM
@iffrononfire
infact hardly has seen any senior even talking rubbish about the man.
infact hardly has seen any senior supporting the way he sneaks in IPL-4
May 4, 2011 at 7:10 AM
support is not just from shouting from rooftop …..
guys like sehwag and yuvraj says publicly they owe their career to him and he was instrumental in bulilding their career
May 4, 2011 at 1:29 PM
I’m on the move….
But just now saw an in- form Yuvraaj being snared by malinga…A person of Yuvrajs calibre and form had a difficult time of getting away from that “bolt” and fell down afterwards getting unbalanced….
Before that yuvraj was hitting indias “best” spinner bhajji to all parts of the ground.
Malinga is currently head and shoulders above other pacers — his slinging notwithstanding ……
May 4, 2011 at 2:59 PM
Need a correction at the top.
MUMBAI beats PUNE.
May 4, 2011 at 3:24 PM
ah error there.. will fix it.. thanks.
May 5, 2011 at 7:08 AM
IPL 4: Malinga most valuable, Valthaty best bargain
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/ipl-2011/news/IPL-4-Malinga-most-valuable-Valthaty-best-bargain/articleshow/8163859.cms
May 5, 2011 at 7:27 AM
@iffrononfire
infact hardly has seen any senior even talking rubbish about the man. You said seniors and i didn’t know that Sehwag and yuvraj are senior to ganguly and even if we belive that sehwag and yuvraj says publicly they owe their career to him and he was instrumental in bulilding their career but after shunning ganguly for IPL-4 why haven’t thet came in support of him. Heck so far yuvraj haven’t said that he is happy for ganguly having in PWI.
May 5, 2011 at 8:24 AM
I am not sure what point you are trying to make DJ. But there is no denying that Ganguly was treated with lack of respect by KKR.
May 5, 2011 at 1:33 PM
Sehwag playing Inning of IPL4
112 not out out of 142 score so far… That man is Incredible
May 5, 2011 at 1:48 PM
oh absolutely.. he had a SR of 212!
May 5, 2011 at 2:07 PM
Sehwags carnage highlights what I keep talking bout the storm called veerender sehwag.
Nobody comes close….
What people don’t realise is that sehwags best results are in tests not in one days or t20 unlike the Yuvrajs or pathans.
In tests the bowling ESP with the new ball needs a totally different skillset. That’s y the likes of yuvraj Pathan even rainas can’t replicate the same in tests.
These innings are few and far between but then u don’t see genius every other day …..
May 5, 2011 at 2:19 PM
Indeed this Sehwag performance was the inning of IPL 2011.. Delhi pulled off almost an impossible win thanks to this man..
May 5, 2011 at 2:27 PM
All talk about “consistency” is ok, but gets meaningless beyond a point when one talks about genius….
If people like pritam and vishal ShekhR keep giving “consistent” hits, can they give ONE “rehna tu”(delhi6)?
Sometimes ONE performance/effort is enuf
May 5, 2011 at 3:04 PM
I feel blessed to be able to watch Sehwag bat like this. Viv Richards was great, but if at all he had a weakness, it was spin. Sehwag’s weakness is neither pace nor spin. Sehwag’s weakness is Sehwag himself!
He isn’t barrel-chested like Mathew Hayden. He doesn’t have the physique of Sir Viv or even the power. A relatively ‘short’ man by stature, his heart is bigger than today’s giant bats.
I’ve probably said this a million times before, there’s no one I’d rather watch batting than Sehwag. He backs himself and hits the long ball, but he doesn’t slog. Sehwag’s sixes feel like poetry. His fours are like novellas, as he hits tons of them.
Delhi team owners, at least got the name of their team right — no one deserves the ‘Dare Devil’ tag more than Sehwag. When he ‘dares’ it’s time for bowlers to utter their prayers…
May 5, 2011 at 3:07 PM
” Sehwag’s weakness is Sehwag himself!”
Sholay and Gabbar.. lol
May 5, 2011 at 4:00 PM
I left the office when they were 3 down and thought what an easy match. And then I see this! Not seen the innings, but this one seems to bare resemblence to Kevin O’ Briens onslaught against England – a stunning knock from a hapless losing position.
May 5, 2011 at 4:08 PM
Kevin O Brien had at least some support. Someone scored a 40, another one scored 30 odd. The 2nd highest score in the Delhi innings was 17!!
Delhi were 25/3 after 6 overs. The asking rate reached 11 in the 7th over and when Sehwag was done, Delhi required 24 off 24.
But these numbers are irrelevant. Watch his shots from today. None of them were slogs. He doesn’t play reverse sweeps, dilscoops and other ugly-as-hell shots. He just backs himself. And if there ever was a batsman who could ‘murder’ spin bowling, quality spin bowling at that, I’ve yet to see him!
May 5, 2011 at 4:11 PM
I would disagree on that Richards thing. He was super against India in the 70s and one of his most devastating series ever was against India in ’76 where his scores boggle the mind! And this when you had that great Indian spin trio.
May 5, 2011 at 4:27 PM
Yes, but he averages (average score upon dismissal) 18 against Chandrashekhar with 4 dismissals, 24 against Narendra Hirwani (!) and 31 against Abdul Qadir, with 3 dismissals each.
His average against Prasanna, with 2 dismissals, is 26. Had a great average against Bedi, though.
May 5, 2011 at 4:34 PM
And also a great average against Derek Underwood, who could only dismiss him once in his entire career. Bedi dismissed him twice, but his average score upon dismissal against Bedi was 153.
May 5, 2011 at 4:52 PM
Hirwani is really at the fag end of Richards’ career. Qadir is fair but then the WI always had tough series against Pak whereas they never had a problem with India. These things happen. In the ’76 series against India though and with all those spinners he scored 142 in the first test (batted once.. got out to Bedi eventually), scored 130 and 20 in the second (Bedi in the first inning, run out in the second), scored 177 and 30 in the third (caught by Chandrasekhar off Bedi in the first.. something similar in the second with Venkatraghavan bowling), in the 4th he had 64 (batted once and was bowled by Chandrasekhar). But this is a titanic series for a batsman!
He also had an excellent debut series in India in ’74 with Prasanna and Bedi on the team including that great unbeaten 192. Didn’t too too well in the ’75 series barring a couple of half centuries and here it’s fair to say the spinners got the better of him. But after ’76 the next he faced India was ’83.
Also think it can be misleading to look at averages versus individual bowlers without looking at other contexts. A guy cannot prosper as much as Richards did against India on many occasions being weak on spin.
May 5, 2011 at 3:06 PM
Agree there Saket…
Hope you are back from south africa, at last….hahaha
May 5, 2011 at 3:10 PM
Saket—how do u explain sehwags much better performance/average in tests vis a vis one days/T20.
As opposed to comparable “hitters” like yuvraj, pathan , raina —Note that all sehwag “admirers” call his technique suspect (which it is)…
Then y the better average in tests??
May 5, 2011 at 3:16 PM
That is big mystery of the present century.
One explanation is that in tests there is more open field to the liking of sehwag as compared to ODI N T20…
May 5, 2011 at 3:22 PM
Why does he average better in Tests? Because he’s probably the only one who looks at balls as potential fours or sixes. I read someone’s interview, probably John Wright’s, where he mentioned sitting next to Sehwag watching a match. In between balls, Sehwag would scream, “chauka tha” when a batsman played a dot ball or got beaten. He probably likes test matches more because he sees more opportunity to play his shots. Captains set attacking fields in Test matches and that, unbelievingly, suits him. He has more gaps to play with and because he backs himself, he plays his shots. More importantly, when he gets beaten, he doesn’t dwell on it. He plays the next ball and not the bowler’s reputation.
These are some of the reasons to describe his success. But if there’s one thing that can be definitely said about Sehwag’s game is that he keeps it simple. Doesn’t clutter his mind too much and plays with positive intent. How he does that and why others can’t replicate him, if it’s all understood well, is the million dollar question.
May 5, 2011 at 4:12 PM
It’s pretty much psychological. Sehwag knows in ODI cricket it is expected to be going gung ho. Whereas in test cricket its expected to build, amass and sometimes labour.
Sehwag makes the game look easy as much as Dravid sometimes makes it look complicated. On Dravid’s face you see the sheer weight of stress, pressure etc sometimes and simple looking shots are awkward. Sehwag is complete opposite.
May 5, 2011 at 4:28 PM
Yes, agreed. Dravid gets stuck at times, but holds the world record for most 100 run partnerships, which probably means that he still does something right.
May 5, 2011 at 3:26 PM
Just caught this on twitter:
Osama must be feeling unlucky. He missed the carnage by Sehwag
May 5, 2011 at 3:30 PM
“That is big mystery of the present century.”—Hahaha—thats why the pointed question….
“One explanation is that in tests there is more open field to the liking of sehwag as compared to ODI N T20…”—In one dayers/T20s there are field restrcistions and batting powerplays that should suit him more .
PLus if his technique is “suspect”, when the bowlers are going all-out to get a wicket with 3/4 slips, y can he score more??
“How he does that and why others can’t replicate him, if it’s all understood well, is the million dollar question.”—Hence it remains unanswered!!!
Thats the reason i personally rank him in a separate category altogether. I was once asked how can i compare him to more consistent dravids, laxmans etc.
Well, the answer lies in the above paradox and the heights he can raise this utter carange to and that too in tests .
And the better the opposition, the better he gives eg australia in austrailia, pakistan in multan…
Sometimes i wonder=—who is the better to watch at his peak/prime–sachin or sehwag.
Answers invited (not essays)–thanks lol
May 5, 2011 at 4:37 PM
It’s a question of what one is looking for. Once upon a time everything that Sehwag stands for was what made the purists frown! Laxman exemplifies the virtues of what was once valued. Times eventually changed. These days those who bludgeon the ball are just liked more. Even Viv Richards with his great field presence and effortlessness was not consider the most ‘pretty’ batsman of his era even as he was universally acknowledged as the greatest. Similarly with Sachin/Lara the latter usually won the debate on ‘aesthetic’ grounds. To get to your question of Sachin/Lara it’s an individual preference on purely stylistic grounds. But note how if you looked at some of Sachin’s similar knocks, i.e. those where he bludgeons the opposition he was second to no one when he got going. But again the distinction here is between having depth to one’s game and really keeping it simple as Saket suggested. Obviously the latter also requires great gifts and Sehwag certainly has had some mesmerizing moments but for me cricket isn’t only about this sort of thing. It is also about those great test battles between bowlers and batsmen. It is also about patience, crafting an inning, so on and so forth. Sehwag is a very instinctive player with as Richards said among the greatest reflexes he has ever seen in the game. But there is still a gap between this and the Dravid sort of talent. Again the problem here is that when the Dravid kind of player fails he seems out of form. When Sehwag’s out of form or even when he throws away his wicket in a critical situation that is simply seen as his style of play. As long as he can come up with the blistering inning sooner or later people are satisfied. This is not to say I underrate him by any means but I do think his fans tend to overrate him quite a bit precisely because ‘bludgeoning’ is valued today. And it’s not just him but many other players as well. This isn’t to say that they’re all the same. some slog, some don’t. But whichever way they do it as long as they go crazy with the attack they are loved. The Laxman sort of inning is increasingly left to the purists and doesn’t quite have the sort of popular appeal it once might have had. But also if you have Laxman battling a spinner or a pace bowler for many overs the audience today just doesn’t have the sensibility to value it very much. To end this with the ultimate example Bradman himself who was such a quick player wasn’t really consider pretty to look at. In fact the whole idea once was that if you were constantly attacking you couldn’t really be the most aesthetically pleasing guy around! Getting back to Sachin-Sehwag I don’t even consider it useful to mention them in the same breath. There are lots of batsmen who can do one thing better than much greater peers. It’s about the whole range of one’s gifts and improvisational abilities. So even as Sehwag had a stunning knock today and he’s had others as well I would never rank him with a Dravid. Much as Gundappa Vishwanath for all his great gifts and some very remarkable innings couldn’t really be compared with Gavaskar in my book.
May 5, 2011 at 4:50 PM
I’ve been a fan of stylish batting all my life. Gavaskar, David Gower, Azhar and even Daryl Cullinan were a treat to watch. For the record, I haven’t seen any batsman hit the cover-drive (the most difficult shot to play; ultimately separates the classical batsman from the Yusuf Pathans/Gayles of this world) as good as Daryl Cullinan. VVS is probably as good as Cullinan. Sachin’s a close second and Sehwag, third. People don’t seem to realize it, but Sehwag’s off-side game is one of the best, ever!
It’s true that Sehwag hits sixes, though nothing like Viv Richards, but in essence he’s a four hitter. Not through lofted shots, but square-cuts and mostly drives. Both shots require perfect balance. And he makes them look easy, as Jay correctly pointed out. He’s fearless, yes, and I love him for that too, but the first and foremost reason why I love Sehwag is, because he’s easy on the eyes. VVS will win any cricketing beauty pageants, but in those pageants, Sehwag will at least have a podium finish. There’s a difference between Chris Gayle/Yusuf Pathan and Sehwag. A difference as big as night and day.
May 5, 2011 at 5:00 PM
agreed on many of these points but in a world where Yusuf Pathan is also greatly valued (and many like him) the Sehwag kind of player will always be over-esteemed. This is not to deny Sehwag’s gifts but the structure within which he’s esteemed the way he is must also be highlighted. The rest of the stuff, specific shots and so on is rather more subjective. But even today where purists are concerned I don’t know whether Sehwag gets that podium finish you’re referring to.
The point is a rather simple one. Traditionally the more aggressive the batsman the less likely he would be considered as a great stylist of any sort! It wasn’t just about slogging but aggressive, attacking batsmen in general. Purists just preferred Gower on this score to Richards.
May 5, 2011 at 6:34 PM
Sehwag is not your usual slogger. He is aggressive but am with Saket here that he just doesnt hit sixes. His off side game is real scary and that is one reason he does so well in tests. His cutting and driving is a treat to watch. Manjarekar summed in up well on his weekly round up on Cricinfo where he says there are only two batsmen who can master difficult pitches as well as Sehwag and Tendulkar. Sehwag’s innings the other day on a rather poor pitch is a testimony to this.
May 6, 2011 at 12:35 PM
Also during world cup, on IBN panel I saw everytime host presenter would ask about Sehwag to Richards and Imran, They proclaimed everytime, as Imran said, ” Dont talk abt him. He is “Mallang(One who lives in his own world”and Richards said. ” Plz check if he has nerves in his body”.. Sehwag is arguably most “Destructive batsman” presently but SRT belongs to other Spehere, Where mortals cant reach..
May 5, 2011 at 3:30 PM
Ian OBrien, ex NZ bowler on twitter
This game has had everything!! Another day I’m glad I didn’t have to bowl to Sehwag!!
May 6, 2011 at 11:20 AM
@Alex
Your anthr Fav, Gayle is making mockery of kings eleven
May 6, 2011 at 11:37 AM
Sehwag had 112 yesterday with a 212 SR, Gayle is on 103 with a 223 SR.
May 6, 2011 at 6:30 PM
Sehwag had to face Steyn, Ishant Sharma (both clocking 145ks and above) along with Amit Mishra and Dan Christian. Gayle faced Ryan Harris, Praveen Kumar and co.
And it’s actually quite instructive to watch both innings (Sehwag’s & Gayle’s) back to back. Gayle has got great technique…for baseball! He didn’t hit any cover drives, none of the classy stuff and after a point just assumed the batter’s pose from baseball. Great to watch? I’ll pass, thanks!
On a passing note, Gayle’s bat is so huge and wide, it’s a crime Scorsese/De Palma didn’t think of cricket bats while staging their baseball bat murders in Casino & Untouchables. And all that trouble to kill Luca Brasi? These Italians haven’t seen the world, apparently.
Sehwag, on the other hand, danced down the track against Mishra, played extra cover drives, flicks down the leg side, straight drives, using his feet all the time. That’s the point. In cricket, you use your feet. Otherwise it looks fugly.
May 6, 2011 at 6:31 PM
LOL, some of this stuff is golden!
May 6, 2011 at 6:32 PM
But now for the serious bit:
http://blogs.cricket.yahoo.com/posts/2011/05/dial-%E2%80%98m%E2%80%99-for-match-fixing-2/
Be scared. Very scared.
May 6, 2011 at 6:56 PM
“@Alex -Your anthr Fav, Gayle is making mockery of kings eleven”
Thanx Iamthat….
Have been busy so missed the innings…
BUt yes–like gayle when on song….
There is something about this sort of carnage bordering on debauchery that i like lol…
Have raised some other pertinent points earlier, examining this on-off phenomenon—is this just bout “bad technique”…
Pasting my comments from elsewhere…
For all my congratulatory tones on gayle, here too a few poiints to add.
What was gayle doing in the world cup and other non ipl games.
He seemed to be slogging and didnt appear to e trying hard enuf.
Today, he underlined that he is one of the cleanest and most brutal players but more importantly he was selective and exerted himself.
IN other words, one gets a sense with the sehwags and gayles that—they play well when the y WANT to—which is a question mark about their giving their 100% in all matches—(which is true for everyone, but in these cases the difference in the effort levels is really high.
“Its not about being a schizophrenic paranoid but dissecting a few subtle hints.
Its not that these guys deliberately underperform. But the gulf between their “efforts” is disproprtionate.
If there is ANY role of a sports psychologist,its not for the likes of sachin, dhoni and poor dravid..
And these sort of sehwag-like creatures are visible not only in sports but at workplace as well.
A potential area where lots can be done to optimise output & something im currently wokring on (on the side)..”
May 6, 2011 at 7:08 PM
Having said that, there has been a tendency here and elsewhere, of putting down “poor dravid” esp in the post IPL era.
Dravid is at the opposite side of the spectrum.
A person of limited (definitely not exceptional) talent, who by the sheer hardwork, concentration, application—squueezed out every little ounce of talent and made the most of it.
BUt again, this is not limited to cricket only.
Unknowlingly humans applaud a person who has “photographic memory” more than the one who “crams all nite” to come up with a similar performance.
This “illusion of perception” is intriguing (and im not talking of cricket only)
There is a wider deeper underlying debate to be explored here…
May 6, 2011 at 7:14 PM
“A person of limited (definitely not exceptional) talent”
You can’t be serious! You could scarcely be describing Dravid here!
May 6, 2011 at 7:18 PM
My sentiments exactly.
Dravid was/is an exceptional talent.
May 6, 2011 at 7:19 PM
Dravid is by no means a man of “limited” talent. He *is* exceptional, in his own quiet way. And so is VVS. The likes of Pathans & Gayle etc, are the ones who are FTBs (Flat Track Bullies). It takes ‘talent’ to play on seaming pitches; exceptional talent at that!
Given some training on flat wickets, by pulling some boundaries in and putting some more weight in the bat, or a combination of all the above, any GYMBO could whack a few out of the park. That, however, is not the proof of talent.
Finally, when people question Dravid & Laxman, it’s time to say goodbye to cricket. It’s not the game I used to love!
May 6, 2011 at 7:22 PM
You are reading only the first half of the sentence…lol—suggest u exert yourselves and read the rest of the sentence.
This passage is not belittling dravid but infact putting his achievement in the correct context.
Dravid is a prototype case study that exemplifies “application”.
I personally considered Dravid more reliable, consistent and crucial for indian test batting than even 10dulkar during a golden phase esp overseas.
NOw i may sound to be exaggerating towards the other extreme—bit its the context that matters.
Besides, the wider point that currently enthuses me (beyond cricker) is—
“Unknowlingly humans applaud a person who has “photographic memory” more than the one who “crams all nite” to come up with a similar performance.
This “illusion of perception” is intriguing (and im not talking of cricket only)
There is a wider deeper underlying debate to be explored here…”
May 6, 2011 at 7:26 PM
“This passage is not belittling dravid but infact putting his achievement in the correct context.”
Sorry, the context is f*cked up!
May 6, 2011 at 7:28 PM
I repeat—dravid unlike laxman was not exceptionally talented …..
BUt his sense of application, concentration, focus surpassed all these pther names.
And if being a “flat track bully” is so easy, why dont the likes of dravids, kohlis, laxmans suddenly becum “sledgehammers” and earn megabucks in IPL now”
Hand-eye coordination is one of the many things that cannot be “practised” beyond a point.
U have to have some congenital faculties to be that good.
Hours of practice facing bouncers or spin on “flat tracks” could not and will not make dravid a “flat track bully”…….
May 6, 2011 at 7:35 PM
More BS. You know what’s Dravid’s record for scoring a 50 in ODIs? 22 balls!
That’s the second fastest 50 by an Indian. Ever!
May 6, 2011 at 7:39 PM
“Given some training on flat wickets, by pulling some boundaries in and putting some more weight in the bat, or a combination of all the above, any GYMBO could whack a few out of the park.”—hahaha
There is something called “reaction time”, “hand eye coordiation” , “relfexes”, “bat lift”, “”bat speed”, and above all inherent strength and mental framework.
If it was SO easy, all these “cheap buys” in IPL would have changed their “cheap tag” in no time…..hahahaha
Amd lets send Saket to IPL next after giving him some practice in the above” pulling some boundaries in and putting some more weight in the bat “—and we have got the father of all sehwags and gayles—lol
BUt before that Saket has to get over the immense mental trauma experienced after the ouster of the “favortie consistent” south africa from the world cup…Know im being persistent in “rubbing it in” but i sincerely believe that this “talented ” Saket has not been the same after that SA ouster…….
We need the “normal” saket back—–recommend a bacardi blast with the end of life benefits mentioned in the OBL thread…….lol
May 6, 2011 at 7:46 PM
So you are the batting expert, eh? Alex bhaisahab, regurgitating the language of Ravi Shastris of this world ain’t going to help you!
And if you need further proof, dig up records for IPL II, which by the way, was organized on seaming pitches in South Africa. Look up the records of the FTBs and think! I understand every cricket lover thinks of himself as an “expert” of sorts, but you’ve got to be seriously delusional and/or under the influence to pass judgments on someone like Dravid! And I don’t mean it as an insult, have got no beef with you, but sometimes, one’s got to draw the line.
May 6, 2011 at 7:50 PM
“understand every cricket lover thinks of himself as an “expert” of sorts”—correct
” but you’ve got to be seriously delusional and/or under the influence to pass judgments on someone like Dravid”–INcorrect—U dont have to delusional to pass judegment on dravid….
Infact, it is not delusional to pass judegment even on 10dulkar, forget dravid….lol
May 6, 2011 at 7:42 PM
And whats his average career strike rate (besides that few odd knocks)
Even gavaskar has a v fast hundred.
History is littered with similar odd “unnatural” performances—-but they are not representative.
U are still not getting the point—If u read this pasaage carefully, it actually underlines the importance of dravid-like characteristics more than the “congenital genius”…
May 6, 2011 at 7:54 PM
What was the “average” strike rate during Dravid’s time? What was Ganguly’s SR? He was good enough to be called one of the best ODI batsmen of all time with a SR of 73!
Dravid’s SR compared to Ganguly’s, in their last 5 years, was 76 Vs 73.
Just saying.
May 6, 2011 at 8:01 PM
By the way, being a FTB (Flat track bully) is NOT easy.
DIdnt think i will have to defend FTB, when starting this analysis of “talent” vs “application”.
BUt since it seems to have been mentioned as a “cheap easy commodity”–wish to commit the “balsphemy” of defending it..
It may have its own pitfalls etc, but this talk wherein it seems that every Tom Dick &Harry can “become a FTB if they want” is BS…
And dont take the refuge of flat tracks and “seaming pitches”—Try converted Dravid into a FTB on ANY pitch and u will get the answer.
To prove a point, he may do it once in a while in some circumstances, but not beyond a point.
INfact—anybody who has really played on a bloody cricket ground can tell u —Hitting slick exquisite fours is one thing–some people just cannot hit consistent SIXES beyond a point—jhis needs a different mentality, forget about “technique” etc
May 6, 2011 at 8:32 PM
You think you are the ONLY one to have stepped into a cricket ground?!
So Rahul Dravid has to “prove” himself by turning into an FTB. It takes some doing to be an FTB?! Whatever you are smoking, keep some stock for the future. Once Dravid and the other greats retire, I’ll only have your comments on cricket for entertainment!
May 6, 2011 at 8:08 PM
Now u r getting cornered into ur own “trap” slowly but surely—lol—love this game!!
SO now u r defending Dravids av strike rate by comparing with “ganguly” of all people—-lol
Suddenly Ganguly has becum the prototype Sledgehammer FTB amongst the likes of sehwag/gayle/pathan—hahahah
I told u —-the writing is on the wall—U r no longe the same afgter the WC SA exit—
One can even already bifurcate into a pre and post in the “saket saga”
Its intriguing but true…..lol
May 6, 2011 at 8:10 PM
Check the fastest 50s..and match it with biggest grounds
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/usa/content/records/284095.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_largest_cricket_stadium_in_the_world
May 6, 2011 at 8:14 PM
Saket—-recommend a rave/ orgy in Goa a la DMD, to get your “old self” back (speakin from personal experience)
U need to “recollect” yourselves now . I can recommend u take some other Aamir baiter(s) here as well, since they too need to “reclaim” themselves—hahahahaha hehehehe
May 6, 2011 at 8:21 PM
Munna—Thanx for the interesting statistics there….
BY the way, Dravid must have taken some androgenic laden viagra before that (plus sexual abstinence for a month) before that odd innnings.
Just to conclude this “debate”–im one of the biggest fans of rahul Dravid (more as a person than cricketer) hahahaha
And find him one of the best looking cricketers india has ever produced
May 6, 2011 at 8:23 PM
Yeah, you seem to be a fan of everyone whom you like to f*ck verbally. Am totally convinced with that line of argument. Yeah dude, totally.
May 6, 2011 at 8:28 PM
JUst to cheer up Saket a bit (hope it helps)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13267353
And by the way, this is the THIRD time this commentator has suffered this plight.
Thats what sometimes happens…….lol
May 6, 2011 at 8:34 PM
“Am totally convinced with that line of argument. Yeah dude, totally.”—Thanx Saket for getting convinced….U have shown maturity and “sportsman spirit” to concede this….Cheers—Enjoy the rave…
May 6, 2011 at 8:43 PM
Finally, “application,” perseverence etc, the terms you’ve used to describe Dravid, apply to Sunil Gavaskar as well. He wasn’t exceptional either?
Who else was unexceptional? Kapil Dev? Hey, he wasn’t quick. Through “application” he took 434 wickets. Most of them on Indian soil.
Anil Kumble? Dude couldn’t even turn the ball. Definitely mediocre talent, right?
May 6, 2011 at 8:48 PM
hahaha saket u need some “dum maro dum” m8—forget bout kapil, dravid, gavaskar—-have some “raw” fun lol
and let us know how u get along —but be safe—all the best mate lol
May 6, 2011 at 9:01 PM
And Alex, the “illusion of perception” bit needs better examples. I’ll give you better ones. Think Allan Border, Geoff Boycott, Nasser Hussain. Or Shivnaraine Chanderpaul. Andy Flower and even Steve Waugh.
Dravid’s in a different class compared to these guys. I’m not just saying this because I’m a fan (I am, a big one!) but because he has all the shots in his book. When he plays them, they look heavenly. I shudder to think how people can admire Chris Gayle over Rahul Dravid. I’m not saying you do (I sure hope not!), but whoever thinks like that is under a bigger illusion.
May 6, 2011 at 9:20 PM
Just watched the highlights of RCB win.
Enjoyed Gayles “dance” after taking those wickets….Yo
May 6, 2011 at 11:41 PM
I found amazing that some consider a guy like Gayles as Flat track bully,comman he has scored 100 vs Sa and Austraila bowling attack and destroying the very attack.
Regarding dravid he is one hell is one lucky guy to be playing in Indian test team for last 4 year doing nothing.He failed against Australia in india,SA in SA and was awful vs sl in sl….But scores plenty vs miserable Newzealand side in indian tracks.Poor Laxman even though he scores lot of run in test ,he dont got much praise.
Seeing Dravid and laxman Struggle playing ipl is not great for eyes also…Some are just born to play test only …Some are true greats who can conquer all format easily Like sachin ,Lara ,pointing also Kallis,,,,,not for nothing this 4 were considered World best in Last 2 decades.
May 7, 2011 at 2:32 AM
Let me put my hands up right at the outset and say that I shall not be around to debate this at length… but I just want to make it known that I find it absolutely ludicrous that anybody with even the slightest knowledge of cricket, not just as a sport but a veritable art form, will question Rahul Dravid’s ‘talent’. If anything, Dravid is right up there as one of the top five most talented cricketers ever.
I think in this age of fast-food cricket, one tends to forget that ‘skill’ is often acquired over a period of time by honing natural ability. The likes of Gayle, Sehwag (I like them too mind you) have immense natural ability, as do the likes of Dravid, Ponting… although their inherent ‘nature’ is different. One cannot fault a Sehwag for not having the grace of a Dravid or criticize Dravid for not being as bludgeoning as Sehwag. They both approach the game differently.
The difference however lies in the ‘application’, a term that you seem to think of as a negative. What a Dravid has done over the years of his career is to ‘apply’ himself and make himself rise above what his ‘natural’ approach limits him to. No one ever thought of Dravid as an ODI player during his early days. But he has been involved in some of the highest partnerships in ODI cricket, the only cricketer to be a part of two 300+ stands. He has scores over 140 on several occasions, has the second fastest fifty… and has adapted himself to the 20-20 format as well.
In tests, I doubt one can think of a better batsman to help you save a game. And you talk of being a ‘flat-track bully’… well, I challenge any of the young outputs of today’s 20-20 cricket to survive a morning session on a green Headingley wicket as Dravid did when opening. And oh, for the record, he was also involved in the 400+ opening stand with Sehwag.
Limited talent! Bah!
May 7, 2011 at 5:46 AM
Alex sorry to say but I am convinced you know nothing about Cricket..Gayle will never be as good as Dravid, Tendulkar, VVS, Ponting and co..and probably Sehwag wont..End of..If Gayle and others like him were that good..why cant do it against SA or Australia in thier back yards..Care to remind me what Gayle did when the Windies got thrashed by England in Tests the last time they came? Almost nothing
So there you go..just because your team didnt do well in the WC please get a better sense of perspective..NEver thought I say this but I am agreeing with Saket lol
May 7, 2011 at 5:47 AM
IF I am correct even Sehwag didnt do much last time he was here but Sehwag I rate more then Gayle..in any form of the game as a quick 30 from him is very valuable..Gayle is a talent that sadly has never reached his full potential..
May 7, 2011 at 5:50 AM
Kunal you are right..Sachin, Lara, ponting and Dravid..Yes he has not been there last four years but the argument is over a career..In no way Gayle and Dravid are in the same league or Gayle better just because of his oodd innings
May 7, 2011 at 6:22 AM
Brilliant—Really enjoyed this debate and am happy to see the rractions it is eliciting.
And the good thing is that Saket has been “sent off” on a break to A rave party somewhere by the end of it….lol
The problem here is that when people wake uptp an exchange without reading things in the correct sequence and totality and reaching “conclusions” by reading a few odd lines here and there.
Kunal–thanks for your views but agree with others that dravid needs much more creditt than that.
Cricketrules–U dont have to apologise for disagreeing although I or anyone else doesnt need your certificate to prove that “we know cricket” —hahaha–so cool it there!!
Infact Abzee puts it quite well (although he too misses my point a bit somewhere)—-
“The difference however lies in the ‘application’, a term that you seem to think of as a negative.”–Not at all—Dont think “application” is negative—infact that is the faculty which one gets by hard wordk unlike the “inborn talent”
” What a Dravid has done over the years of his career is to ‘apply’ himself and make himself rise above what his ‘natural’ approach limits him to.”–Agree there.
My main point which sometimes gets buried in this friendly banter has pasted again to avoid some naughty souls trying to relabel the title as “gayle is not better than dravid” and “dravid IS one of the best” and so on—These were NOT the points being made to begin with……
“Dravid is a prototype case study that exemplifies “application”.
I personally considered Dravid more reliable, consistent and crucial for indian test batting than even 10dulkar during a golden phase esp overseas.
NOw i may sound to be exaggerating towards the other extreme—bit its the context that matters.
Besides, the wider point that currently enthuses me (beyond cricker) is—
“Unknowlingly humans applaud a person who has “photographic memory” more than the one who “crams all nite” to come up with a similar performance.
This “illusion of perception” is intriguing (and im not talking of cricket only)
There is a wider deeper underlying debate to be explored here…””
And those who missed the previous one—enjoy this—
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13267353
And by the way, this is the THIRD time this commentator has suffered this plight.
Thats what sometimes happens…….lol
May 7, 2011 at 6:58 AM
OK among all this sehwag, gayle etc stuff m worried when does shane watson comes to the party?
IPL deserves a big knock from him… and so do rajasthan royals!!
May 7, 2011 at 7:24 AM
Alex, my take-away from this entire debate is that I might have tried out for the Indian cricket team. I would have worked really hard and might have produced Dravid-like numbers! Alright, maybe he’s a bit more talented than me but I could have survived on the Indian team.!
May 7, 2011 at 7:41 AM
Hahaha Satyam–agree that u could have produced this (and maybe more)…..lol
May 7, 2011 at 9:55 AM
Alex,
You are missing the sarcasm here.
I understand the point you are trying to make of application vs Genius/inborn talent but you couldnt have chosen a worse example.
One doesnt have a career like Dravid just by the dint of application and perseverance. He was enormously talented and graceful and a pleasure to watch. May not be as carefree as Sachin or Ganguly could be on occasions and that relative lack of flair is being misinterpreted by you as lack of natural talent.
Dravid is a batmen in a classic mould. Just wish they made more of those.
May 7, 2011 at 10:38 AM
Rajen–Didnt miss the “sarcasm” there.
BUt made an exception due to Satyams “talent” there…lol
As for the example to prove the point of “application” vs “genius/ congenital ability” —this is actually rhe right example.
One has to chose guys of equivalent stature—just like in doing any “research srudy” you have to choose age sex matched individuals.
U cannot compare a bachchan from bollywood to a Steven Segal from Hollywood,….
To compare something like Sehwag on one arm , one NEEDS Dravid on the other—U cannot have a mediocre example there.
And also putting Dravid in the other arm does NOT mean that he has subpar “inborn talent”—Its just that the proportion of “application” is much higher in the mix for Dravid.
May 7, 2011 at 11:09 AM
the problem Alex is that you oppose ‘talent’ to ‘application’. Even Sehwag needs some application or his test average wouldn’t be significantly higher than his one day average. He’s not just an instinctive beast! Similarly with a Dravid you need a certain talent level to prosper in all the situations he has throughout his career. The way you frame it makes it sound that even a mediocre batsman with great talent could prosper simply by application. The truth is that those who are very gifted often do not apply themselves as much as they could and this shows in the numbers. But this too is part of talent. If you do not have the will or the patience and so on to be successful in every given situation that does ultimately reveal a ‘gap’ in talent. The ‘potentiality’ argument only takes you so far. One cannot just assume that certain batsmen have the talent but they don’t apply themselves and then penalize those who actually do. So you’re not really comparing like for like. what you’re saying is Dravid’s numbers mean less than they are because he worked too hard for them. Meanwhile Sehwag’s numbers don’t tell the whole truth because he could do much more. This is an asymmetric comparison. Because here’s the point. Even the greatest batsmen have to apply themselves in very many situations. You can’t just play the game instinctively off your basic talent level. It’s not as if the great batsman can always dominate the bowling as long as he plays to his talent level. There are great talents bowling as well! There are all sorts of factors from the pitch condition to the context of a match (how the team is doing and so on). So application entails working out all of this. if you say you’re going to score a 100 at a blistering pace irrespective of the opposition and the situation of the game, when it works it works when it doesn’t it’s too bad this attitude has to be factored into your overall talent. Because if I need a batsman who can hang around for 30 runs in a critical situation on a crumbling pitch it doesn’t help me that a guy can score a blistering 100 otherwise and take apart some of the best bowling attacks. Because that’s not what is needed. Your entire argument revolves around the ‘warrior-batsman’ who heroically overcomes all challenges and beats up the opposition. Given that you have played the game I am rather amazed you have that view of things.
Similarly no one is saying flat track bullies don’t have talent. Obviously everyone cannot do what they do. But it’s like saying in tennis terms let’s compare Roddick to Federer because after all not many can come up with the number of aces and the kinds of aces the former can. It’s not that Federer is somehow applying himself and Roddick isn’t. The latter’s talent level is just more limited than the former’s. If you want a contest of aces the latter will win every time. if you put Sachin at his pick in a 20-20 context with Pathan or Gayle at the other end sachin will hardly do better all the time. In fact quite probably the latter two might even best him most of the time. How much better can you do than a 220 SR?! But the flat track is also a great equalizer. A mediocre batsman can get a 100 here and the great batsman is not going to get 300! Not even 200 for the most part. On the right pitch with the right opposition though the mediocre batsman gets instantly exposed. Sehwag has actually done a great deal in all kinds of situations. Pathan wouldn’t be able to manage this. But with Dravid it’s a different level. With Sachin it’s yet another level. The ‘great’ batsman is most often revealed precisely when the opposition and/or pitch offer a challenge. That’s why certain innings become legendary.
and this is what I was getting at the other day. We somehow seem to care only about great hitters, irrespective of the contexts. That isn’t what cricket is all about. It’s not a mythic hero-warrior out there who takes apart the opposition no matter what. Even with the greatest batsmen those innings are rare. And even when they happen they’re not necessarily the best display of their talents. Laxman has never been that sort of batsman but he’s played some truly extraordinary knocks that have always been recognized as such. Similarly not everyone is Sehwag. This man clearly has some special gifts. But those should not blind us to the even greater ones Dravid has or at least had. And even if one wants to debate this comparison it’s one thing but one cannot say that Dravid is just about ‘application’. Remember Dravid was outpacing Sachin for a while. That doesn’t happen just by application!
May 7, 2011 at 11:50 AM
Now this is really brilliant.
Squeezing such a writeup from satyam….lol
I may have been “paying around” with Saket a bit yesterday on this —which led to Saket been taken away for a “break” hahaha–But then there is a danger of diverting to side issues.
This debate iss now progressing towards the right direction.
If correctly argued (like now), there are certain “questions” that do NOT have a clearcut answer–whichever way u look at it………..
And one can see how even Satyam has actually got tied into knots himself (for a change)….lol
This was a poser wherein I myself dont claim to know an “answer”. Infact I raised more questions than i answer….
Besides, the wider point that currently enthuses me (beyond cricker) is—
This was what I had written up in the beginning of this debate—-“Unknowlingly humans applaud a person who has “photographic memory” more than the one who “crams all nite” to come up with a similar performance.
This “illusion of perception” is intriguing (and im not talking of cricket only)
There is a wider deeper underlying debate to be explored here…””
And this is an exerpt of what Satyam has written—”We somehow seem to care only about great hitters, irrespective of the contexts. That isn’t what cricket is all about. ”
Egg–jacktly—So thingz have come full circle.
The debate is NOT about Dravid in particular and dissecting his career stats only and trying to calibrate how much of his performances are “talent” or ” application”—
The point is much bigger and one that transcends cricket….
One cannot reach excellence on the strength of ONLY “inborn ability” or “application”—is a given fact that one needs both in good measure —It is naive to argue this known fact repeatedly!!!! Also trying to argue about Dravids exact ranking in Indian alltime batsmanship is irrelevant at this stage of discussion
The question is why more visible credit is usually given to the former in all spheres of life (or is it not) ?? Is it because it looks more glamorous or heroic.
Or is it when one comes down to the brass tacks ina comparison (other things being roughly equivocal), it boils down to the basic elements of nature And one is left with just the congenital ability in a simplistic sense??? or Not?
Thats the moot point ….
Another related (but deeper) example–Why is a female’s “inner beauty” not as relevant to choosing a partner for courtship/procreation for most (maybe all) males than the exteranl “physicality”.
BUt surely there is something in the evolutionary genetic code that DEMANDS such a choice to be made…
ONe can go on and on in this maze of ideas….lol
May 7, 2011 at 12:42 PM
Alex, I wasn’t earlier but I must admit that your current response has really tied me up in knots. Not sure what you’re saying anymore!
May 7, 2011 at 10:43 AM
Also a side-note to add—Have had the opportunity to personally meet Dravid during an England Tour.
Even got to bowl to him in one of the practice net sessions.
Was really impressed with his focus and down-to-earth humble nature.
Very few people know that he has a meticulous yoga-meditation “drill” before going out to bat everytime—He passed on a few tips to the local lads……
Also to add something unrelated—He is one of the best looking cricketers ever from India IMO.
May 7, 2011 at 11:14 AM
I’d say after Sachin the next two spots of best Indian batsmen ever have to be taken up by Gavaskar and Dravid in some order. I’d probably give the palm to Gavaskar for greater longevity. But can’t think of anyone other than Dravid to follow him. In fact even including the subcontinent (Pakistan) I wouldn’t take a batsmen over Dravid. They’ve had some big names but if you combine talent level with consistency I don’t see a Gavaskar or a Dravid there. And again I am looking at the entire history. That’s at least how high I rate Dravid.
May 7, 2011 at 12:15 PM
Is it delibrate not to discuss KKR performence this year ? I think there comback in IPL-4 is quite remarkebal if not stunning. Though ther are not as consistent as MI but still they are doing good in all 3 departments.
May 7, 2011 at 12:39 PM
No actually we haven’t discussed Mumbai or chennai either! But perhaps as a SRK fan you find the Kolkata thing more offensive! and there’s nothing incredible about their turnaround either. In fact it would have been shameful if they hadn’t performed well given that they beefed up in the off-season this time. One could argue they’ve underperformed in the past as well but certainly this year there was little excuse.
May 7, 2011 at 12:21 PM
Dj—u have brought the “proceedings” back to earth—hahaha
But agree that KKR appears a much stronger team this year and one of the title contendors.
MI looks strongest on paper but usually the “strongest on paper” doesnt end up winning the titel in fickle tournaments like T20
May 7, 2011 at 12:33 PM
DUM MAARO DUM emerges as a hit inspite of the IPL
May 7, 2011 06:03:44 PM IST
Enkayaar, Glamsham Editorial
Advertisement involving a star riding on the bandwagon of a popular sports event, coupled with the simultaneous film release indeed seems to feed on each other, at least for Abhishek Bachchan it has happened like this in DUM MAARO DUM. In the fourth season of the IPL seldom does a match go by where Abhishek Bachchan does not appear in an advertisement with his Idea in one innovative form or the other, and it seems to have helped in attaining a box office success for his latest film DUM MAARO DUM, which inspite of facing a still competition from DHARTI (Jimmy Shergill�s Magnum opus in Punjabi), has been able to garner around 23 crore and these are good figures.
view DUM MAARO DUM stills
view DUM MAARO DUM stills
Now if one were to analyze what went in favor of Abhishek Bachchan, in all probability his enactment of the role of a cop, probably coinciding with the anti-state sentiment, and he representing a character who wants to fight against the system, symptomatic of the current state of impasse in which our society is in, and also resembling the kind of films that his father Big B used to do in his days of yore.
DUM MAARO DUM is indeed celebration of a personal victory against the system which does not having any encouragement for those who want to stand on the right side of law, and it could be the catalytic factor how it has scored a hit with the fans in Mysore circuit as well. After all, corruption is one category that is above caste and creed, and if one tries to make an attempt to weed it out, though symbolically on the cinematic screen, he immediately registers a chord with the audience and they give him their stamp of approval. Abhishek Bachchan seems to have found one such chord through DUM MAARO DUM, and with some good support from the star cast it has become a surprise hit during the season.
May be, now the Paa aka Big B has to see the film and offer his comments about the manner in which Chota B has interpreted the character of a Policeman as there is no better judge than him to do so, after all Big B has played the maximum number of police characters on the silver screen. For Big B it would be redemption as his tweet on RAAVAN in relation to the performance of Chota B would be wiped out, once he tells the world his interpretation of Chota B’s performance in DUM MAARO DUM.
May 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM
btw delhi is getting r.ped by mumbai 7/4……….
May 7, 2011 at 12:40 PM
yeah they’re in serious trouble..
May 7, 2011 at 12:46 PM
Yup,KKR are doing very well.
Both SRK and his fans might get to enjoy his strip tease after all.
May 7, 2011 at 12:47 PM
that is one good reason to root against Kolkata!
May 7, 2011 at 12:51 PM
Saw SRK showing his usual stupid antics in a n interview yesterday.
How he deliberately changed the whole team this time and made a “fresh start” and how it has worked “big time” and how the “absence of dada” could not stop KKR.
When will this guy grow up!!!
Somewhere there was news that kareena will manage to kiss another khan (srk) and was touted as her big achienvement. NOw there is news that SRK wont kiss since he “doesnt know how to kiss”
WTF…………………
May 7, 2011 at 12:54 PM
If Kolkata wins it all the kind-on-SRK-media will portray this as an achievement comparable to conquering Everest!
May 7, 2011 at 1:20 PM
Pardon me, but I didnt get it what was so stupid about these remarks of his..
he said he made a fresh start – so..? thats right isnt it.. what else would he have said that could’ve made the statement intelligent?
absence of dada.. the remark instead showed his respect for ganguly.. that they are doing well inspite of not having ganguly..
doesnt know how to kiss… ok.. well…. has he ever kissed onscreen.. please enlighten me!!
alex dear, nothing to WTF about!
May 7, 2011 at 9:56 PM
except he had earlier said he wasnt involved in picking the team if he had a say he would bring da in and blah blah.
so now he is doing a volte face. guy speaks so much he needs to remember what he said.
May 7, 2011 at 2:01 PM
It’s more in the way SRK said it rather than what he says on face value. Every franchise is there to win but the sheer childish behaviour that accompanies these matches ( not related to this comment)
And the “respect” he jas for ganguly seems to be the types he has for Aamir Or Salman ….more of antics can be seen in award functions where scores are settled in the name of “fun”
Anyhow have noticed that recently SRKs childishness has gone down and he seems to be sobering down.
The fact is that Srk is a self -made over- achiever who has many real creditable qualities. Nobody can take that away from him.He doesn’t need to indulge in some of the low level stuff he sometimes indulges in …..even Salman seems to have matured with age that way more than him….lol
May 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM
He probably meant he doesnt know how to kiss …….. a woman!
May 7, 2011 at 2:15 PM
Agree there : have mentioned earlier that Srk may well be the most high profile closet gay /bisexual (or even asexual)…….hahaha
May 8, 2011 at 7:42 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/ipl-2011/news/I-owe-a-lot-to-Ganguly-Yuvraj/articleshow/8192203.cms
How times change….
“I owe Dada a lot for all the faith that he placed in me when I just broke into the national team. I guess I felt a little sad when he was not picked by any team in IPL 4. As regards him playing on Sunday in Mohali, we will take a decision after assessing his fitness.”
May 9, 2011 at 2:36 PM
loads of cricketers like Dada, I think. From Harbhajan to Yuvraj, have seen loads saying good things abt Sourav. It is only the boards that have problem with him.
May 8, 2011 at 8:38 AM
Gayle and Dishan opening together for bangalore—trying to outdo each other…
Not sure how long this “gang-bang” will last–hahaha—suspect something giving way v soon
May 8, 2011 at 8:44 AM
Dilshan reached 20 within 2 overs.
then Gayle hits 33(is it) in the third!!!!!
Enjoying this “gang bang” while it lasts.
All that talk about “flat track bullies”—hahahaha
Gayle 44 off 13 balls
How many batsmen can inflict this sort of damage on ANY pitch or against ANY bowler effortlessly—when they want—-brilliant
66/0 in 3 overs…..
May 8, 2011 at 9:17 AM
Perhaps you should pursue Gayle and plead with him to bowl at the nets. Your enjoyment will reach an orgasmic climax…
May 8, 2011 at 9:41 AM
“How many batsmen can inflict this sort of damage on ANY pitch or against ANY bowler effortlessly—when they want”
I’d say ‘none’!
May 8, 2011 at 9:38 AM
Hahaha welcum back saket.
So what happened in the “rave”– can we have some info– hahaha.
I deserve credit for “motivating ” you lol
May 8, 2011 at 9:50 PM
Its amazing to see gayle batting,People like shewag,Gayle,Mccalaum,Jayasuriya are rare breeds without whom cricket world would be incomplete.Such player are born to entertain with bat rather than show batting skill.This all are extraordinary talent without whom suddenly cricket became boring.
May 9, 2011 at 11:16 AM
i hope shane watson who is due a biggie fires!!!
May 9, 2011 at 2:48 PM
OOPs, they lost
May 10, 2011 at 12:16 PM
change the headline pune beat deccan it reads deccan beat pune…
May 10, 2011 at 4:54 PM
VARUN IS CORRECT.
Satyam.. please change the headline to ‘Pune defeat Deccan’ wish it was true though.(Hyderabad yaad aa rah hai
)
May 10, 2011 at 2:11 PM
“Ganguly said it was the toughest day of his career and he came into the match with zero-confidence”
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/sports/cricket/ipl-2011/news/Toughest-day-of-my-cricketing-career-Ganguly/articleshow/8224543.cms
A slightly moving comment by Ganguly. Have not been a Ganguly fan in general, but find myself rooting for him this time—Hope he does well…
May 11, 2011 at 7:19 AM
http://www.sify.com/sports/The-fan-who-paid-homage-to-Sourav-imagegallery-cricket-lflqjOfbghb.html
May 11, 2011 at 7:17 PM
http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_south-african-cheerleader-s-abrupt-expulsion-exposes-ipl-underbelly_1542250
Not really surprising though.
On another note, felt good to see Ganguly back in action. I’ve never been a great fan of Ganguly but one can only have respect for Ganguly’s resolve. That’s been his signature trait, all throughout his career. His utility in the national team was long over, but he’s good enough for the IPL. And he looked happy, which was great to watch.
May 14, 2011 at 12:52 PM
Unlike many who support Sehwag blindly, I would pick Gayle over him.. He’s proving to be a far better batsman..
Even if we do not consider Sehwag’s inconsistency, we must take into fact that Gayle belongs to a shit team and bears the entire team burden, at a time when even experienced players like Sarwan and Chanderpaul dont perform.
Sehwag belongs to a team which has not put him in a pressure of scoring runs and lets him play his natural game. Even he knows that Sachin n others lower down the order can always handle batting situations.
May 14, 2011 at 4:16 PM
So, you would pick Gayle over Sehwag based on IPL performance?
May 14, 2011 at 5:58 PM
Okay, lets compare their ODI performances..
Gayle:
7917 runs scored in 223 matches played with a batting average of 39.00.. 19 hundreds and 42 fifties
Sehwag:
7760 runs scored in 235 matches at an average of 35.27. 14 hundreds and 37 fifties..
Decide for yourself if you care for statistics!
May 14, 2011 at 6:04 PM
Let’s also compare Test matches, shall we?
There’s a reason why you didn’t put up the Test stats, right?
May 14, 2011 at 6:06 PM
And there’s hardly a difference between an average of 35.27 & 39! But since we are discussing ODIs, what’s the difference between the Strike Rates of Sehwag & Gayle? Why didn’t you care to post that?
May 14, 2011 at 6:14 PM
Gayle’s ODI SR, is actually lower than Sachin’s! It’s close to 84.
Sehwag’s career SR is 104!
May 14, 2011 at 6:24 PM
I agree that Sehwag’s a far better Test Player.. But there has to be a lot of difference betwene Test and One-dayers..
Regarding the SR, I couldnt gather the information. The above data is from Wiki.
May 14, 2011 at 6:38 PM
“I agree that Sehwag’s a far better Test Player”
He scores run but not a test player type. His average may look good but you need to see he has 2 triple and one almost triple century suggesting skewness in scores.
May 14, 2011 at 1:37 PM
second time in a row that Mumbai batting has collapsed.. they’re at 83/6 in 16 and Sachin had 37 of those.
May 14, 2011 at 2:17 PM
Mumbai form has been on a downward trajectory.
May 14, 2011 at 2:19 PM
Pollard had some remarkable hitting at the end, he got out but it almost seemed possible when he was around. Harbhajan was good too. But you’re right, the chemistry is missing. Kolkata have also been doing poorly recently. Chennai have maintained their form.
May 14, 2011 at 2:38 PM
a reason being their middle order has never got time to settle barring few innings late in tournament if i am not wrong!
May 14, 2011 at 3:39 PM
What a blessing to Bangalore to get Gayle..He is in terrific form..Happy to see him score runs againist his former team KKR…Go RCB! Go Bangalore.!!
May 14, 2011 at 3:42 PM
so the ‘inhuman’ Tendulkar again failed to make a big score under pressure (in second innings)..
He is a great player no doubt.. But plz enlighten me – when was the last time he helped India in a successful run chase, and played a big knock when India had a big target to chase..??
The only matches that come to mind are the India Aus ones in April 1998.. !
May 14, 2011 at 4:15 PM
There are other innings as well, but among the more high profile ones:
1) India Vs Pak, WC 2003.
2) VB Series, 1st Final, 2007
May 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM
I already had the India-Pak match in my mind before coming up with it.. It was a brillaint inning but he still got out when India needed almost a 100 to win, with about 6 wickets left.. It could have been a rather close match if not for the Yuvi-Dravid partnership then
May 14, 2011 at 6:03 PM
“It was a brillaint inning but he still got out when India needed almost a 100 to win, with about 6 wickets left.. It could have been a rather close match if not for the Yuvi-Dravid partnership then”
Sorry, but that doesn’t make much sense. Chasing 275, if your opener scores 98 off 63 in a highly charged game, you’ve got to believe you won because of him. If the rest couldn’t have come up with the remaining 100, it’d have been shameful for them!
Besides, since everyone here likes to bring in the intangible facets of the game (rest of the team is $hit & so on), it’s also important to remember that during the course of that innings, bowlers like Akhtar, Akram (the highest wicket taker of the tournament) and Waqar were given a hiding. By the time Sachin left, they were so down on morale, their collective might couldn’t do much. And they couldn’t have, because the asking rate was akin to a cakewalk. All because of that one innings.
I’m not Tendulkar’s greatest fan, but no amount of persuading will convince me that he left the job unfinished in Centurion Park, circa 2003.
May 14, 2011 at 6:29 PM
My point isnt that Sachin didnt help in an Indian victory that evening. He played an outstanding knock that was one of the most entertaining knocks ever.
Its just that how many times we’ve seen him scoring right till the end of the innings while batting second. even if we take the one under discussion, is that all we recall, along with the 2007 one..?
I am not doubting his greatness. But the big question is whether he has the ability to steer India to victory when he isnt playing his natural game..
May 14, 2011 at 3:51 PM
I seem to be vindicated on gayle….lol
Missed all thee matches
Just saw d score….
As for Mumbai, the problem is to peak at the right time.
when I saw them on a winning spree in the STArt of this IPL, knew they will drop later …
Dhoni has this remarkable tendency with india and chen ai that he doesn’t get worked up with initial reverses….
May 15, 2011 at 4:19 AM
tonymontanna are you serious? What was the WC quarter finals vs Australia this year..surely his 54 runs helped India..and the Semi Final vs Pakistan his 84 was the highest score in either side..Match winnings are innings that helped the team without Sachins runs in QF and SF India wouldnt have won..
Dating back..the sahara cup desert vs Australia last decade..There are quiet a few in ODIs.. I mean its pointless debating with you man..You are the guy that even if Sachin scores a century in second innings and India fail to win will blame Sachin for getting out.. Never see it in Australia..Ponting etc have got out after scoring a century..cant recall too many matches where Ponting has stayed right to the end but in Australias past the other batsmen finish the job hence its called match winning innings..so forget this tbh
May 16, 2011 at 7:37 AM
KKR is in tricky situation. what a fall for MI. From table toppers now it appears they will be 3rd or 4rth in play offs. At present chennai is strongest to win the cup.
May 16, 2011 at 8:29 AM
Actually Mumbai have the same points as Chennai currently (they’ve played exactly the same number of matches) and they are second in the table though Chennai have a run rate advantage. Bangalore currently top the list but they have one match less than Mumbai/CHennai. But yes Mumbai have shown some real loss of momentum in recent matches.
May 16, 2011 at 11:45 AM
I think the teams are tiring out at this point. A few times recently there have been under 100 scores or just slightly over this.
May 16, 2011 at 12:31 PM
Bangalore look like the team in best form and with the momentum.
Chennai the most consistent.
Cannot rule out Mumbai though.
I’ve got a sneaky feeling the champions will be decided by one epic tussle. Malinga Vs. Gayle. At the moment Gayle is in incredible form and Malinga is the best bowler in the tournament by a yardstick. I’d fancy both these teams to beat Chennai.
Momentum swings a lot anyway. I think it only takes two defeats or two wins in a row to consider yourself in good form or out of form. Mumbai Indians are out of form for sure but a couple of wins in their final two games (next against Rajasthan they have got to win since this team is on a massive losing streak) and they will be again back in form. Bangalore have won something like 6 or 7 in a row so they are in prime form but they play Chennai next (I think) which is a big game. The loser of that match will know they have lost to key rival. Just like Mumbai play KKR in their final game which is again a crunch match.
The increase to 10 teams has worked. 4 clear best teams have been identified through this long process unless some last minute surprise by KXI Punjab or Kochi Tuskers. But I think through the performances so far Bangalore, Chennai, Mumbai and Kolkatta are the best teams with the best international players and local talent.
Gayle is the best buy and player of the tournament along with Malinga. The stats don’t lie. Gayle is amongst top scorers with strike rate of 200+. Malinga taken more wickets by a far distance. This is the match-up I want to see!
May 16, 2011 at 1:03 PM
agreed with everything here..
May 16, 2011 at 1:09 PM
Bangalore team is as fresh as a new team – because no one else gets a chance to bat except gayle, dilshan and kohli
and with Gayle bringing down asking rate below 6 within first 3 overs – the rest is a cakewalk and he has done that now in 7 matches! something Ganguly could have done for Pune but he has done a mediocre 32 ball 32 and today – 0….
May 16, 2011 at 3:51 PM
Enjoying the “gayle”storm ….
Something I had predicted BEFORE he restarted his innings with Bangalore.
The way he was ousted from both KKR and WI —saw it coming…..
Been a bit busy—Not been able to follow this part of IPL…but enjoyed afew gayle and sehwag thrillers esp one over where gayle scored 35 odd runs…..
May 17, 2011 at 2:17 PM
yup incredible stuff from his today.. this keeps things interesting a bit longer in terms of the top 3 spots..
May 19, 2011 at 7:14 AM
The players must be fatigued, dead at the end of the day. And the summer heat and humidity. Of course most games are scheduled at 8 p.m. So our cricketers have become performing horses and the jockeys or captains are trying their best to reach the winning posts. Many will burn out and we will be left with ashes. It is funny to watch foreigners or mercenaries taking over while every other thing is blurred out.How much will it matter as to who wins the cup? There are a couple of Indians in every team riding on the likes of experienced outsiders. Meanwhile their families will be counting the money instead of having a regular family life. Cricket has become an industry from being a mere sport. Besides IT slaves, now we have cricket labourers.
May 19, 2011 at 10:28 AM
a cricket novel that was well-reviewed in India:
Chinaman
got published recently in the UK. Will be available soon in the US too.
recently there was this one:
Netherland: A Novel
and this is one I’d recommend..
May 19, 2011 at 2:21 PM
Saket, Satyam, Q, Alex n rest
What do you think of new challenger to D/L method?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/513596.html
May 19, 2011 at 2:27 PM
I have never been a fan of the D/L method. Here I would say, let’s try out the Keralite!
May 19, 2011 at 2:30 PM
Ha ha ha ha…
Is he keralite??
May 19, 2011 at 2:32 PM
yes it says there he’s an engineer from kerala.
May 19, 2011 at 4:13 PM
Sachin best I’ve played against: Warne
May 19, 2011 at 7:02 PM
this liz hurley saga continues to entertain….
btw recently noticed that the acting “style” of her ex Hugh grant somewhat resembles SRK!!!!
Anyhow, Warne nowadays appears a bit of a walking freako with multiple cosmetic surgeries and “enhancements”.
Find his womanising more noticeable than his cricket….
A real sex addict……..
May 19, 2011 at 11:41 PM
Mumbai’s games have been better attended than most in this IPL, thanks to the Tendulkar effect
http://www.espncricinfo.com/indian-premier-league-2011/content/story/515769.html
This is what makes Sachin “inhuman” not the runs he scores in 4 th innings
I will like know how many cricketer present or past or dead can fill the stadium with there presence only??or how many player wherever they goes crowd treat them as there homeboy playing??
There was a time in 90′s when india cricket was about ..sachin is batting or not,because rest of batting was not good enough,once sachin got out people used to switch off there tv as if others don’t count.
Dravid,Ganguly,Shewag,Laxman came very late ,but the entire 90 era..that contain the world greatest bowlers like of courtney walsh,curtly ambrose,waqar younis,wasim akram,allan donald,shaun pollock,glenn mcgrath,shane warne,muttiah muralitharan at there prime best
and sachin avg highest in that era with avg of 58…talk of real greatness
Many came many went still the man is there fightng for last 21 year,many time his own team mate let him down but he never spoken anybody with anger….this makes sachin inhuman.
Shewag,dhoni both started playing cricket watchin sachin only,infact shewag used to copy him in his starting days……and always told sachin as his guru ,that the impact of sachin.
The entire indian team dedicated the 2011 WC win to Sachin not to the country or fans…….that the impact of sachin on the indian team.
He made cricket what it is in india,if sachin was not there today there would not have been any ipl,no auction and offcource no ipl tread with 300 comments.
This makes sachin as “INHUMAN”
But for me the real greatness of sachin is in his eyes,the richest cricketer in history,the cricketer having maximum fans,media coverage is still the same old sachin ,just want to play the game as if he has just debuted.Long Live the Legend.
May 20, 2011 at 7:31 AM
You know after every great leader or sports person there is always a question after him who ? But there is always someone. Take ex of sachin. OK, as a run getter it may be difficult to catch him,but if someone see the present scinario in popularity MSD is catching up with SRT. In today’s newspeper there are a list of Top 10 Sports person brand in the world and MSD in No 10 (SRT i think is in no 47). Yes..yes these ranking are not the last recognition of someone’s achivments but it shows the trend. In recent years the way MSD went ahead SRT in income, Brand promotion and at some level popularity, it is quite unbeliveble. And all this when sachin is going with his purple patch and form of lifetime. Belive me the youngsters who is following cricket after 2000 in this segment MSD’s is more popular then SRT. This is also happeninf in other sports. Who thought that After Sampras there would be fedrer and then Nadal. I still belive Zinedin Zidan is the best footballer in last 2 decade but now look how messy is playing. In formula 1 there is Sebistian vettel.
May 20, 2011 at 7:35 AM
there’s a difference between Sampras/Federer and Sachin/Dhoni. In one case it’s about accomplishment, in the other only about popularity as you have yourself pointed out. Don’t think anyone ever asked: after Zidane who? This question is usually raised for real titans or at the most for very strong players within an individual team. Yes it’s a media game to play this story more and more and then set up someone else later. doesn’t mean there is a successor. Where I do agree with you is that because of the media saturation around this whole debate sometimes the distinction between accomplishment and being a media star gets lost. Doesn’t mean though that we have to succumb to it.
May 20, 2011 at 7:40 AM
@
Dravid,Ganguly,Shewag,Laxman came very late ,but the entire 90 era..that contain the world greatest bowlers like of courtney walsh,curtly ambrose,waqar younis,wasim akram,allan donald,shaun pollock,glenn mcgrath,shane warne,muttiah muralitharan at there prime best
and sachin avg highest in that era with avg of 58…talk of real greatness.
This attitude realy amused me. Why we indian always run after individual greatness in team sport. It is ok in individual game like tennis and boxing but not in cricket. Ok sachin avarages 58 in 90′s but what team india got. Sir don’s greatness not only lies in the 99.94 but also because he led an invinchible side in 1947-48. That is why in my previous comment i said MSD went pass SRT in some fields. He won everything under the son. No 1 test side. WC in 50.50. WC in 20-20. IPL..Champions leauge. You name it MSD got it.
May 20, 2011 at 7:44 AM
So you want so say dhoni is a media star ?
“In one case it’s about accomplishment, in the other only about popularity”
so there is no accomplishment of dhoni ?
May 20, 2011 at 8:18 AM
I think both Sachin and Dhoni are media stars besides being accomplished players. Sachin is Indian media’s all time favourite. Just like SRK and SRK from movies. We have to wait and see for 2013 to see any others will emerge for media’s cuddles.
May 20, 2011 at 8:55 AM
I think it’s a little preposterous to mention Sachin and SRK in the same breath. Sachin’s media profile is proportionate to his achievements and his deep deep roots within the contemporary Indian psyche (which I would argue has been under-represented in the media for a while in some ways). With dhoni it’s the opposite and from relatively early on. Which doesn’t mean he hasn’t done anything. Just no proportionate to his media presence. Sure, these days it’s that way with many folks. We see this with movie stars too. But Sachin isn’t part of this group.
May 20, 2011 at 8:53 AM
Yes he has NO accomplishments if the comparison is with Sachin! Actually Dhoni has no accomplishments compared with many others also. You don’t have to get upto Sachin.
May 20, 2011 at 9:03 AM
Dhoni didnt win by himself. Ofcourse he gets a lot of credit for his performance in the finals ans his leadership but comparing him to Sachin is just ridiculous. Dhoni has been an outstanding leader and according to some the best Indian captain ever. And, he belongs to Hall of Fame ( if there were such a thing for cricket).
I sometimes get dismayed with peopledecrying personal greatness and feats in a team sport as at the end of the day a team is made up of INDIVIDUALS. So, it shouldnt come as a surprise that some individuals get celebtrated more than others as their contributions are greater. And, India is not unique in that respect. Again, we have been thru the whole why Sachin is so loved and highly regarded thing before. So, we need not let trolls come here and start the debate all over again.
May 20, 2011 at 8:27 AM
partialy agree, but to became media star you have to be sombody. Tou have to something. It is not like that media can make anybody a star.
May 20, 2011 at 8:33 AM
One has to be somebody. But constant media attention makes the star always to be in the limelight. Media also tries to downplay the achievements of the rivals. It is a dirty game. Media houses also organise and distribute awards and they try their best to award their favourites. This gives birth to hubris and aura.
May 20, 2011 at 8:58 AM
yes exactly.. it’s a vast apparatus..
May 20, 2011 at 8:57 AM
Actually anyone can be a star. We have in this age (not just in India) people who are huge celebrities without doing anything. The Paris Hilton phenomenon. What this means is that when you have a sports figure he or she can be made ‘bigger’ than the accomplishments would have one believe if he or she can be sold in certain ways.
May 20, 2011 at 1:05 PM
Rajasthan are coasting to victory.. Mumbai have really lost the plot these last number of games..
May 21, 2011 at 7:29 AM
Good news for sachin fans. DC batsmen is getting boundry at will. At present XIP is loosing plot. So if they loose MI is through to play-offs.
May 22, 2011 at 9:29 AM
gayle single handedly props up bangalore…..
so glad—-my prophesies have a knock of coming true…
satyam may recall the one on an india sri lanka final in the wc as well
haha
May 22, 2011 at 10:59 AM
Another key point in this match was how dhoni again “stepped up” his battig in a key game.
Lately he remains average / indifferent in the initial stages but steps in the pedal when it matters. Hope sachin can also do something for
Mumbai now at THIs stage….
May 22, 2011 at 11:01 AM
Gayle is a freak ,an extraordinary talent which all sport needs….Its sad Westindies cricket going down with such talent on there hand.Hope WI Cricket make better use of him.
Just for record has smoked 38 six in 9 match….IPL4 will be remembered for gayle show.
May 22, 2011 at 11:15 AM
Agree Kunal…
I have been saying this BEFORE he strated on this blitzkrieg and landed from WI mdiway thru IPL.
If one scrolls up, the discussions on the “flat track bullies” are laid threadbare….
I am not talking on behalf of sehwag/gayle here ….
The fact of the matter is that being an effective “flat track bully” is NOT an easy task and NOT something that can be acquired easily..
These are the guys who need max nurturing and that is where the coaches, team psychologists etc earn their living…
May 22, 2011 at 11:21 AM
Also, just skimming thru some of the cumments above that seem to suggest the equivalence of Sachin with the “great” Viv richards.
Just like the other ARR-RDB discussion, i will start another one—
I reject this sort of blurred equivalence and say in no uncertain terms that Sachin is undoubtedly superior overall to viv richards (and he hasnt finished yet)
Sachin has far more layers, gears, subtleties and staying power than the undoubtedly talented great viv richards……..
Infact, I would rate Sachin as an uncanny and consistent balanced mix of Viv Richards AND sunil gavaskar (and maybe something to spare)
May 22, 2011 at 11:29 AM
I will not call gayle or Shewag as “flat track bully”……..Both of them have scored 300 in test matches vs quality bowling side.They are proven talents.
A perfect example of “flat track bully” is Swapnil Asnodkar from rajastan Royal ,IPL1 fame…scored heavily but found wanting on India A Tours.Now not even active playing member of any IPL Side.
Hope paul valthaty is not another example .He needs to improve his technique a lot to hit top bowlers like mallinga and co.
May 22, 2011 at 4:10 PM
Amazing win by Mumbai today. Didn’t think they’d pull it off but they did. They really needed this shot in the arm after their dismal run off late.
May 22, 2011 at 5:38 PM
Missed mumbais batting .. Gave them 20-30%chance getting that total.
Remarkable stuff
Last over heroics by franklin and rayudu…
May 23, 2011 at 5:58 AM
Watching MI and KKR match, I felt that Gautam Gambhir is the least charismatic captain inspite of his skills. They lost something which was in their hands. Bowler started looking like loser during the last overs. KKR crumbled like kakra. One Priyanka Chopra is enough against thousands of barbie doll like cheer girls. Just cant get enough of her.
May 23, 2011 at 6:15 AM
It was the idiotic Balaji who cost KKR the match.. bowling full tosses and wide deliveries, and too much of experimentation when all he had to do was ball atraight and discinplined..
and Sachin fails to put up a big score in 2nd innings, yet again!
May 23, 2011 at 6:22 AM
It also looked like a case of match fixing.
May 23, 2011 at 7:19 AM
Won’t be surprised if most of the matches are fixed. Its all business
May 23, 2011 at 8:06 AM
BALAJI ne CSK ka karj uttar diya 1 over main.
May 23, 2011 at 8:20 AM
Lord Balaji blessed both Srinivasan and Ambani. He must have entered into the body of Balaji during that over.
May 23, 2011 at 8:54 AM
Balaji is the Ashish Nehra of IPL..
May 23, 2011 at 9:40 AM
Nope, Agarkar
May 23, 2011 at 10:44 AM
Tendulkar and Bradman: Beyond the average argument – Part IV
Sachin Tendulkar
India’s Sachin Tendulkar hits a ball during the second day of the second Test against South Africa at Kingsmead Stadium in Durban. (AFP Photo)
Bradman’s comparison with Tendulkar is a facile exercise and Sehwag is the only right parallel. The amount of cricket and mass adulation that blighted the punctuated career of Bradman with mysterious illnesses is the amount Tendulkar plays every five years and God save him if privacy is also one of his concerns. Tendulkar may well hang his boots having played nearly four times the Test cricket that Bradman played and top it up with an unbelievable and equally immense One Day career.
Bradman gave his game away when he came out with that beautiful story from his home in Adelaide. “Sir Donald Bradman was watching a 1996 World Cup match on television when he first saw Sachin Tendulkar bat. The Indian player’s technique seemed strangely familiar. The Australian called his wife into the living room of their suburban Adelaide home. ‘Who does this remind you of?’ asked Bradman, then 87. The answer was obvious. ‘I never saw myself play,’ Bradman said later. ‘But I feel that this player is playing much the same [way] I used to play.’
What is Bradman trying to say here? Is he implying that the average of 99.94 is achieved by playing like this and so the equivalent of that in the modern era is somewhere over 56. You have to completely misunderstand Bradman the man and credulously believe Bradman the legend in order to swallow that.
What is the one line that Bradman could not eradicate from his cricketing life and sits on almost every summary page you read about him: “Though his batting was not classically beautiful, it was always awesome.” If you dig deep it is scattered around his knocks everywhere like clues at a crime scene. Bradman could not have been unaware of it and you can’t give him the benefit of doubt here because there are instances that show how zealously he guarded his legacy.
See this interaction with David Frith. “He once took me to task for writing that he bowled Wally Hammond out with a full-toss at Adelaide in 1933. ‘It was not a full-toss!’ But five or six participants in that Test match, including Hammond himself, had declared it a full-toss. And I discovered – too late – that Don himself had spoken of it as such in his radio summary very soon after the incident. Amazingly, all these years later, he seemed to regard the bowling of a full-toss as a symptom of defective character. I loved him for it.”
Bradman was greedy to the hilt and this comparison he made shows that he wanted all that he could have. Bradman was not elevating Tendulkar, in fact, he was trying to obliterate all anecdotal evidence about himself. Does Tendulkar from any angle look like an unorthodox player without beauty in his stroke play? Bradman was not copybook as far as looking elegant is concerned. Tendulkar is better than copybook and even his wild innovations look beautiful.
Bradman had the average and what he badly needed was a model, so he chose the most-perfect and compact and perhaps the most-beautiful run-getter in the history of the game to serve his purpose. What he meant was that he got his runs at an average of 99.96 playing like Tendulkar does. And someday there would come a time when the last man to have watched him bat would pass away but what will remain forever is the way Tendulkar has got his runs. The Don was trying to perpetrate and preserve a false legacy.
He gave it another tweak and expressed surprise on learning that Tendulkar had been coached, when he had invited the Little Master to his home in Adelaide during end-1990s, as he thought that Tendulkar like himself was a complete natural. So despite watching all his innings for a few years the Don did not bother to check anything about the player he compared to himself and later invited to his home. The life of Bradman shows he was never so casual about anything – especially not about his cricket.
To judge Bradman you have to first see that he has a very small sample and therefore each observation matters as it affects the spread significantly. You have to put aside his average against the minnows South Africa, India and the West Indies and then count the innings where he played at least one world-class bowler. Hardly four or five bowlers who bowled to Bradman stand out in the history of the game.
Don’t underestimate the LBW law as in Bradman’s time you could only be given out if the ball pitched and hit in line with the stumps and then went on to hit them. This automatically rules out the in-swinger, the in-cutter, and the off-spinning deliveries that pitch outside but come in enough to hit in line. This is as potent a weapon for the bowler as the catch or even more as you can pad up to any ball outside off and get away. The batsman also gets the advantage when he is unsure which way the ball would go as he can again pad up and nullify the in-coming as well as the out-going delivery. Bradman was out leg before just six times in his career. The argument that he was so good that he was rarely struck in front of the wicket does not hold as he was bowled 23 times.
Tendulkar has played around two dozen bowlers who can lay a good claim to being in the list of the forty odd all-time best bowlers on wickets suiting them and made hundreds. What was said about Tendulkar during his early years? His maiden effort in Australia at Lismore when he was just 18 didn’t go unnoticed and 1,500 people saw it. “Conditions were grey overhead and green underfoot, which made predicting the ball’s flight path tricky. The bowling was top-shelf-Whitney, Lawson, Holdsworth, Matthews, Waugh, Waugh-and the batting a little gormless, all except for the one who was 18.
Under the Oakes Oval pines he took careful guard, his head still, his footsteps like tiny, precise pinpricks, going backwards mostly, unless the bowler overpitched. Fifteen hundred people saw this, the great Alan Davidson among them. Davo was dumbfounded: “It’s just not possible… such maturity. Tendulkar hit 82 that afternoon, when no one else passed 24, then 59 out of 147 in the second innings.” Christian Ryan wrote.
When Allan Donald first bowled to Tendulkar in an ODI at Eden Gardens he said “that it was blatantly clear that he was going to be a player to remember”. He rated him the number one in his book and said that it is freakish to be so balanced at the crease.
Tendulkar didn’t have an average at 16 when people all across the world were lining up to see him and when Australian journalist Mark Ray was lingering around India’s net sessions during his first trip to watch the boy wonder bat. Neither did Bradman have an average after his first Test but he was picked for the third. Players are not selected on averages and though it has, like net profit for a company, become the gold standard to judge cricketers it is just as misleading as relying on a sole figure to learn about the business of a company. Tendulkar would never equate himself or place himself higher than the Don but then playing oneself down and not even knowing what one has is an unmistakable sign of real greatness.
Frith paid Bradman the ultimate compliment, “Bradman was not one in a million,” he said. “He was much rarer.” Despite a following that runs into thousands of millions, the tribute for Tendulkar is qualitatively-different and the essence of it is wonderfully captured by that Matrix line immortalized by Lana and Andy Wachowski: “He is the One.”
May 24, 2011 at 6:05 PM
Beautiful piece.
Thanks,Youarethat.
May 24, 2011 at 4:58 AM
Will miss these matches– been v busy.
Who’s thru ?
Is kkr out ?
May 24, 2011 at 2:15 PM
What a thriller once again?
May 24, 2011 at 2:17 PM
It is raining thrillers.
May 24, 2011 at 2:19 PM
oh man..Hard to belive Bangalore lost this one from such a good position. 19 th over from Aravind changedt the game, and tilted towards Chennai. What a innings from Raina, Morkel and Dhoni.. Glad Bangalore one more chance to make up and get back to finals in the new format now..These teams are playing themselves too often now
May 24, 2011 at 2:41 PM
yeah Bangalore could have won this.. Chennai looks most likely to win it all but Bangalore with all the momentum they’ve generated recently are placed next best. Mumbai have been poor in the last number of games though they won the thriller the other day. Kolkata are in a similar position though Mumbai’s decline has still been more alarming. Perhaps the home ground helps. In any case Chennai has the advantage of being rested till the Final. I always back Sachin in any situation but if Mumbai lose I wouldn’t mind a Bangalore win at all. Certainly a Southern final would be great in that situation. Unfortunately I cannot back Kolkata in any situation because SRK has threatened to strip if they win it all!
May 24, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Same here Satyam..I want anybody else to win but a SRK’s team..In way KKR got lucky to enter last 4..Offcourse Mumbai stole a game from them in which KKR had a upper hand for the most part..But if Punjab had won their last match it would have been close call b/n them and KKR for the last 4 berth..Interesting who Bollywood supports tom, SRK or SRT..?
May 25, 2011 at 10:18 AM
Rajesh, if Punjab would have won the last game than still they would have been out of top 4 due to net run rate. Again as you are on the lines of Satyam, you want any team to win but KKR.
May 24, 2011 at 3:05 PM
A final between Chennai & Bangalore isn’t about South Indian pride, unfortunately. Chennai can at least lay claim to Badrinath & Ashwin who are genuine game changers, but Bangalore has nothing to show in terms of local talent. Arvind has had a great season for them, but he’s not the primary reason Bangalore are in the playoffs. Or the secondary, tertiary reason either. It took Gambhir, Pathan & Iqbal Abdulla for KKR to qualify. Mumbai has Sachin & Rohit Sharma, but they owe their place to Malinga!
In an ideal world, a city based franchise should win because of local talent and not because of foreign imports.
May 24, 2011 at 3:12 PM
Well Said Sanket. I completely agree..I was rather sad with RCB when they let go Dravid, Uthappa and did nor retain Kumble although he had a very good IPL 2009..All of them were local favs..But this is becoming more and more like a NBA model. With a limited or no local talent in the team, a city can only boost for their franchaise but not their talent.
May 24, 2011 at 3:23 PM
Not only Dravid & Uthappa, they had Kumble and Manish Pandey as well. Vijay Mallya is plain lucky that he was gifted the deal of his life, mid IPL, in the form of Gayle. And, Gayle’s never played better in his entire career so far. That’s just what makes T-20 difficult to digest, I guess.
One player can make a difference to the outcome of a tournament. That’s just not fair!
May 24, 2011 at 3:34 PM
yes but that’s the way teams are structured these days.. specially in the US for example where it would be quite odd to inquire into home-grown talent on any given day. So if the Miami Heat win we don’t particularly care where the players were shopped from. Note how in the WC Spain was supposed to be ‘Barcelona without Messi’. Even in a rather nationalistic tournament that gap was highlighted. And I think something interesting is revealed here. Mass spectator sports started out as being nationalism’s ghostly double but rather quickly the ‘city team’ overtook the ‘national team’. So the true religion for European soccer fans is not the WC (even if because of the scale of the spectacle everyone is thrilled to win it) but ‘local’ league soccer. In the US the extreme logic of this has been played out because all the major sports here rely on the ‘city’ structure. The ‘national’ is meaningless for all of these. Of course in many instances in all sports there are multiple teams in a city which are then divided along ethnic or class lines and so on. But I’m essentially arguing here against the idea that the IPL teams are like the Indian national team. They are not. They represent the ‘city’ structures of European soccer or American baseball/football/basketball (incidentally the ‘city-state’ history of Renaissance Europe finds expression in this way!). Yes even at this level there is always a special fondness reserved for local, home-grown talent but the real signifier if you will is the ‘name’ of the team.
May 24, 2011 at 4:10 PM
But the US & Europe don’t have a tournament like Ranji Trophy that’s played between local teams. Where do Chennai & Bangalore stand where the local talent counts?
It’s all about perspective, isn’t it? I’d feel odd about supporting RCB, knowing fully well that a Jamaican is the root cause behind my team’s (Bangalore’s) success.
May 24, 2011 at 5:33 PM
Yes but this is the IPL not the Ranjhi trophy! and every US sports competition is like the former, not like the latter. Just as the Champions League (soccer) for example is also the same. Or for that think of English country cricket specially once upon a time when they had star players from WI or India or Pakistan! The only ‘rules’ that are still held dear in many of these instances are that the most iconic players on a team (which does not necessarily mean home-grown ones) not migrate to other teams. In other words Sachin playing for Bangalore would be very odd. Or in a lesser example LeBron going from Cleveland to Miami was considered a betrayal of sorts.
May 25, 2011 at 12:38 PM
Again to reiterate, how does a “city” winning a competition give fans bragging rights when there’s little or no local talent involved? It’s a bit like the argument that most people make when they say that a film should be good because it’s been successful at the Box Office!
Hey, it’s a great moment for Bangalore or Kolkata or whoever because they have had great success through foreign imports?! If it doesn’t matter how you win, then surely it shouldn’t matter how good or bad a film is, as long as it’s successful?
May 25, 2011 at 1:25 PM
But using that argument Saket no fan of any American team should be proud of its stars because most of the time they come from elsewhere! what you’re missing is the fact that the ‘sign’ of the team cancels out these more parochial issues. When Messi plays with barcelona he is as much of that team as the ‘native’ talent and is celebrated as such. The fans then are proud of the ‘name’ of the team. Obviously there is always most affection for the ‘local boy’ but this doesn’t cancel out the larger concern that the team should win. Couldn’t one take it a step further? No Tamiilian should celebrate an Indian victory if there is no Tamilian on the team! Because if the sign of the ‘city’ or ‘state’ cannot overcome these parochial concerns why should the ‘national’ similarly overcome ‘states’ and ‘cities’. So the Gujarati shouldn’t be proud of the Indian team if no Gujarati is playing on it!
I fear that in the matter of Chennai there is a certain Dhoni-Raina (Northern) axis that’s unconsciously guiding the discussion on your side. the IPL has foreign players from all over the world. Why is it different with these two ‘Indians’?!
May 25, 2011 at 1:39 PM
Even in American sport, who’s the face of the Yankees? A-Rod or Jeter?
And the Indian team isn’t called CSK, RCB, KKR or whatever. If a regional-minded person doesn’t support the Indian team because of the absence of his regional team’s players, then that’s a different can of worms.
RE:I fear that in the matter of Chennai there is a certain Dhoni-Raina (Northern) axis that’s unconsciously guiding the discussion on your side.
That’s totally below the belt. I should really withdraw from the debate after such charges get thrown about, but still, I’m only speaking, IMO, the uncluttered, unsugared truth. Raina has scored more runs than anyone else in all the 4 IPLs combined at a SR close to 140. Dhoni’s been a great leader. It should be obvious to see how they have both contributed to CSK’s campaigns so far!
The point about South Indian pride is also applicable to KKR (and I mentioned previously that KKR has reached the playoffs because of Gambhir, Pathan & Abdulla, not because of local players) and also Mumbai.
The foremost aim, one that seems to be lost now, of the IPL was to harness local talent. It’s STILL mandatory for each franchise to take 4 players from their catchment areas. Whether they play them or not is a different thing. But the larger point remains, if you are winning because you made a better bid during the auctions, then what’s the big deal about that?
May 25, 2011 at 2:11 PM
It wasn’t meant to be below the belt Saket. I just don’t see what’s exceptional about Raina/Dhoni being the key players for Chennai?
On A-Rod/jeter this actually proves my point a different way. Jeter is an instance of a player who has only played on the Yankees since day 1 and who won a title in the year of his debut. So he acquired an iconic significance right away. And I have already stated that there is that extra bit of affection for the ‘local boy’. But when A-Rod was coming to NY there was enormous excitement over this deal. No one cared where he was coming from as long as he was making it to NY. My objection to your highlighting of Dhoni/Raina is simply this. Let’s account for all the key ‘out of state’ and/or foreign players who are very integral parts of their team. Why are you only pointing out Chennai? My initial statement was simple — that I wouldn’t mind an all-Southern final at all. I don’t think this statement is exceptional in any way.
As for the national team the point I made is exactly analogous. And it is in fact rooted in your very point. If city or state lines are ‘absolute’ which is why Dhoni-Raina playing for Chennai is an asterisk always to be attached to the team doesn’t this deconstruct the very ‘national’ that you are otherwise celebrating? if Dhoni is never ‘convincing’ as a representative of the Chennai team how can he then represent Chennai equally (or as much as Bihar) when he plays for the Indian team? So my objection is implicit in your very framing!
Also it’s rather strange to object to the rules of the IPL this late in the day. yes players are bought and sold, The ones with the most cash get the heavy-weights, so on and so forth. Yes there is a minimal rule for having local talent, all that is fine. But why is this exceptional? It doesn’t apply only to Chennai does it?
So I’m just not getting the more ‘universal’ basis of your objection. You know I ran into folks around the time of the WC who were supporting Spain and when I asked why they said it wasn’t about Spain but about Barcelona. You might consider the ‘national’ to be the ultimate marker but this isn’t so. We see this even at the level of pure politics. The enormous faultline between Northern and Southern Italy, between Northern and Southern Germany, so on and so forth.
And again it wasn’t below the belt because I’m not accusing you of being anti-Southern or anything. It’s an unconscious thing where one finds Dhoni as Chennai’s star to be a little odd. I just find the terms of the objection strange. If you want to object to the IPL overall that’s fine but then it isn’t just about Chennai. So your ‘cluttered’, ‘unsugared’ truth is irrelevant to this debate. Either you have out of state players or you don’t. If you do you can’t introduce this further condition that the locals always do more than the ‘outsiders’! if it is apply it to everyone else. And I hate to inform you but the league you have in mind isn’t what the IPL is!
If Chennai win it all the fans of that team should sit at home glum because Raina/Dhoni are more responsible for the victory than anything else?!
May 24, 2011 at 3:12 PM
“Unfortunately I cannot back Kolkata in any situation because SRK has threatened to strip if they win it all!”
lol..Poonam Pandey has been teasing us for a long time
May 24, 2011 at 3:35 PM
would reconsider my stance if KKR had that sort of offer…!
May 24, 2011 at 6:15 PM
Was it really neccessary tp remind us of that ugly threat?
The guy really has lost his grip on reality. Is there anyone there who wants to see those spindly things he thinks is a six-pack? Soon, he will be threatening to reveal his ander ki aurat! I dont find Ms Pandey particularly attractive but if I had to choose at gun point, she would be a hands down winner.
May 24, 2011 at 10:13 PM
I hope KKR wins. I just want to see whether SRK has the nerve to exhibit himself like that.
About local talent. Bangalore has not that much of a mindblowing local talents to boast of as of now.
For me it should be either RCB or KKR. Though I love Dhoni and SRT.
Bowlers may win or lose the game for their teams. and take most of the blame. The ultimate hero always is the batsman. Atleast in India. Or can we call him Batman?
May 25, 2011 at 10:16 AM
Satyam, you not backing KKR is because of SRK and we all know that. Just because it is owned by SRK, you will pray for its loss. Anyways, thats pessimism at its best.
May 25, 2011 at 11:24 AM
Actually I don’t back any team against Sachin’s team..
But even if I were doing it for the reason you suggest well how is it different from backing a team only because SRK’s part of the deal?!
May 24, 2011 at 2:33 PM
And Virat’s show. Unfortunately the last over makes the bowlers look bad in case they lose. The batsmen have nothing to lose and so they can take risks. It is the do or die situation for them. And the bowler has to face those wreckless and adventurous batsmen. A very unenviable situation to be in. Hope better luck next time for the RCB.
May 24, 2011 at 3:15 PM
Bangalore owes its place in the playoffs to Gayle’s stupendous form. If he doesn’t perform they are stuffed. Mumbai depends too much on Malinga. If he doesn’t perform, they are stuffed too. KKR has been up and down, and they too depend on key players. Mainly Iqbal Abdulla, who’s been a real find. He’ll turn the ball square tomorrow in Mumbai, that’s for sure.
The key for KKR lies in how Balaji recovers from the previous game. If he’s picked, it’ll be interesting to see how he bowls on a wicket that’s not ideal for medium fast bowling. Brett Lee’s been good in this IPL without taking wickets. Mumbai doesn’t have any spinners in their ranks and no, I’m not forgetting Harbhajan. Basically, Mumbai Indian supporters should just pray that Malinga delivers again. If they can get Kallis cheaply, the match could turn in their favor.
May 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM
A lot has been said about poor Balaji and his last over against MI. Granted, the final ball had ‘hit me’ written all over it, but 3 out of the other 4s were edges in the slip cordon, including one over the keeper’s head. The single that he gave was a good ball. Even the one genuine 4 that Franklin hit was on a wide angling delivery outside off. So basically, Balaji bowled 5 good balls in the over and one really bad one. On another day, he would have given away just 11 runs off the over! #Perspective
May 24, 2011 at 3:49 PM
Having said that, Gambhir’s decision to give him the final over was not a great choice. He had Ryan Tendoeschate who has a lot of experience in T20s at his disposal. Balaji had already been hit for runs in his previous overs and it looked like it just wasn’t his day.
The other point to emerge out of that game (and today’s) is that how difficult it is to bowl the death overs against left handers. In Sunday’s game, Franklin scored bulk of the runs in the death overs and today, it was Raina & Morkel. If left-handed bowlers are worth their weight in gold, left handed batsmen should be worth Platinum!
May 24, 2011 at 3:58 PM
Zaheer Khan, Ashish Nehra, Arvind, Prashant Parmeswaran, Srikant Wagh, Jaydev Unadkat, Pradeep Sangwan, Irfan Pathan, R P Singh.
All Indian. All left-handed medium fast bowlers. At last the communists have something to cheer about!
May 24, 2011 at 6:32 PM
BTW, did you guys hear about Scotland Yard’s code name for Obama during his recent visit? It is – Chalaque!
May 24, 2011 at 7:57 PM
LOL, didn’t know!
http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979362671
May 24, 2011 at 6:59 PM
Dhoni/Raina are considered honorary Tamilians. Bollinger, Morkel & Hussey are on probation & will be cleared soon. Who knows they could even reach the invincibility that Hayden or Murali had. Even today CSK fans dominate Hayden FB page.
Even the coaching staff Fleming & Steve Rixon both enjoy such privileges.
Most importantly we have Ashwin/Badri/Vijay – homegrown talent. All developed & attuned with Dhoni-esque temperament. That winner’s mentality is biggest achievement of Fleming-Dhoni legacy. Expect more & more talents in near future. Abhinav Mukund, G. Vignesh (although would be another old bloomer like Badri) to name two.
Whistle podu.
May 25, 2011 at 4:57 AM
Sorry, take away Dhoni & Raina and CSK would struggle to finish in the bottom half. Murali Vijay is a joke. Had one great season and since then has fallen into a neverending downward spiral.
Badri is a class player and so is Ashwin. These are the only two home-grown talents in CSK.
May 25, 2011 at 7:24 AM
You can’t call Vijay a joke just yet.
He has scored an important test century against Australia, the partnership with Sachin won us the game. Had many good opening partnerships with Viru against Lankans. Let’s not forget he was one of the three MVPs to help CSK win Champions league in South Africa. But had major slump for India in South African tour. He’s out of favor after that. Deservedly. I have seen signs of him regaining form this season. So don’t count him out. Got classy shots for every possible delivery.
WSS is praising Dhoni & Raina. It is true that they both have been accepted in TN as their foster sons.
CSK isnt abt 2 men.
Look at the batting lineup:
Raina/Hussey – 430 runs
Badri – 400
Dhoni – 375
Vijay – 340
Morkel, Saha, Anirudha (another homegrown player) came good when team needed them.
That’s why Chennai couldn’t be caught by Law of Averages. You just have to hope 4 or 5 players have bad day at office or 1 or 2 in the opposition play a blinder.
May 25, 2011 at 12:25 PM
Don’t think Vijay’s got “classy” shots for all deliveries. His default frontal movement is a big no-no against genuine quicks. And it’s no surprise that he’s struggled against them. But to add to his own woes, he’s struggled against spin too, in this IPL. He’s added a few kilos since the last IPL, so I don’t think he’s going anywhere to be honest. His SR is a respectable but unspectacular 118 this season, but his average is 22! In fact, because of Vijay’s performance (or non-performance) this season, Chennai has had to lose some key games while chasing. The one against Mumbai comes to mind. His India career is all but over at this point.
And regarding Dhoni’s influence, one has to look back at last year’s IPL when he was out due to an injury. CSK lost 3 out of 4 games and Dhoni had to rush back a match ahead of his scheduled arrival. Face it CSK fans, the team’s not worth much without Dhoni/Raina.
May 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM
Wo-o-oh. No one said anything against Dhoni/Raina.
What makes CSK the lethal team is down to 8-9 players sharing responsibilities. Not just 2.
Vijay is just as, if not more, important as Dhoni/Raina/Ashwin/Badri/Bollinger winning the double last season.
Can’t judge him entirely from this year. But I think you will still find his IPL stats are decent.
May 25, 2011 at 12:49 PM
Dhoni makes CSK what it is. In fact, I’m crediting him for the improved temperament & winning mentality of local lads.
May 25, 2011 at 12:52 PM
What makes CSK lethal is one man, and that’s MSD. Take him away, and the team’s got nothing over others. The same Vijays and Co. will falter under anyone else’s leadership
May 25, 2011 at 1:01 PM
Which is exactly what I said. Just listen to you.
May 25, 2011 at 1:01 PM
Absolutely. Dhoni is a leader par excellence. Whatever reservations I had are completely gone. One cant praise the man enough. He is a true leader and makes complete difference.
May 24, 2011 at 8:01 PM
May 24, 2011 at 8:24 PM
this fantasy photo-op will be on the front page on all major papers tomorrow….
May 25, 2011 at 12:45 PM
KKR’s dream is all but over. SRK fans will now start hating Sachin!
May 25, 2011 at 1:00 PM
Great start for Mumbai tho they just lost Blizzard.
They should eschew heroics and get the target.
May 25, 2011 at 1:13 PM
Rohit Sharma gone!
May 25, 2011 at 1:15 PM
Sachin’s gone too. But it should still be easy. KKR will lose twice in a row against MI.
May 25, 2011 at 1:25 PM
they’ve lost another wicket, should win but they have to be careful.
May 25, 2011 at 1:41 PM
Pollard’s gone! What a waste he has been all season. Can’t play spin if his life depended on it.
May 25, 2011 at 1:46 PM
dont worry abt sachin, franklin is there just like last time
May 25, 2011 at 1:18 PM
Oh NO..Mumabi is making a mess of this small total after a great start..Are we heading for another close finish..Praying Mumabi does it without any further drama.
May 25, 2011 at 1:42 PM
I’m still positive MI will make it. 25 required off 24 balls. The Wankhede’s one of the smallest grounds in India. 2 Sixes and it’s all over for KKR.
May 25, 2011 at 1:48 PM
LOL dude do u want a win for MI , or defeat for KKR
May 25, 2011 at 1:50 PM
I’m kinda neutral. I don’t like KKR but I like Gambhir. But speaking about this game only, 147 is under par at the Wankhede. A team’s got to play extraordinarily well to defend that score.
May 25, 2011 at 1:51 PM
Spoke too soon. Suman gone! 15 off 12. I think Munaf Patel’s going to hit the winning run today!
May 25, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Last over. 7 Required. Shakib to bowl.
May 25, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Game over. Small ground, give any monkey a bat and a six is guaranteed.
May 25, 2011 at 2:10 PM
vivid imagination.
May 25, 2011 at 2:02 PM
Congratulations Mumbai Indians! Good hit from Bhajji.. and not a good idea to play a spinner in final over especially when boundary is small..
and…
I am yet to see Sachin playing big in innings Number 2… n not crumbling under pressure
May 25, 2011 at 2:11 PM
Phew.
May 25, 2011 at 2:13 PM
Cannot take anything for granted. This is 20-20 cricket. Sounds easy but it is not.
Congrats MI.
FOR PEOPLE TRYING TO PISSON SACHIN’S PARADE, TOO BAD.
They will have to wait another day.
May 25, 2011 at 2:17 PM
I am relieved today. Was having regular nightmares about SRK’s threat!
May 25, 2011 at 2:20 PM
Am sure his fans are disappointed. Not sure tho what is more disappointing for them – KKR’s exit or losing an oppurtunity to see SRK shirtless!
May 25, 2011 at 2:22 PM
well there’s always the OSO DVD..
May 25, 2011 at 2:13 PM
Oh what would I give for preventing a shirtless Shahrukh *yikes*.
MI, you beauty!!
May 25, 2011 at 2:16 PM
Mumbai made it today but it wasn’t totally convincing. I will say they’ve won two games in a row now and have certainly arrested their losing streak before this but they’ll have to play a lot better against Bangalore given the current form of the latter.
May 25, 2011 at 2:17 PM
Statement of the day:
Kowshik: “What is IPL ? It is a competition where 9 teams will play hard to reach the finals to play against Chennai Super Kings!”
May 25, 2011 at 2:17 PM
LOL, true!
May 25, 2011 at 2:24 PM
“Why are you only pointing out Chennai?”
You are greatly mistaken. I’m NOT only pointing fingers at Chennai. I’m pointing fingers at every single franchise that has entered the playoffs based on the performances of foreign imports.
And in reply to your original statement that you “wouldn’t mind an all-Southern final at all,” I just replied that it’s not a matter of pride for Southern cities if they’ve made it so far based on foreign imports.
>>if Dhoni is never ‘convincing’ as a representative of the Chennai team how can he then represent Chennai equally (or as much as Bihar) when he plays for the Indian team? So my objection is implicit in your very framing!”
Dhoni does not represent Chennai because he never played his cricket for Chennai or Tamil Nadu. Similarly Raina played all his cricket for UP before making it to the national squad. How can they be called “local” players by any stretch of imagination?
>>Also it’s rather strange to object to the rules of the IPL this late in the day. yes players are bought and sold, The ones with the most cash get the heavy-weights, so on and so forth. Yes there is a minimal rule for having local talent, all that is fine. But why is this exceptional? It doesn’t apply only to Chennai does it?
Again Chennai? Why don’t you re-read my messages where I’ve objected to KKR’s success or RCB’s for that matter?
May 25, 2011 at 2:39 PM
But your objection then is to the very format of the IPL. You don’t consider it legitimate to have ‘foreign’ (which in your books is out of city, out of state, out of country equally!) talents. In other words if Chennai wins Tamilians should hide their faces in shame because the ‘local’ talent didn’t get it done! There certainly wouldn’t be anything to celebrate! You should really be boycotting the IPL!
of course you would also have to boycott much of football in Europe or all American team sports and so on. Because if one disses the IPL one has to exclude these too. Doesn’t Messi without losing his native identity contribute as much to Barcelona’s wins as the ‘local’ players? Or are there asterisks against all those results? Do we tell people in Bombay not to be proud of many of their actresses because many of them are from the South and not primarily ‘Hindi’ speakers in many instances?
But notice the logic you’re inadvertently subscribing too. Depending on the situation immigrants to various countries can never be like the ‘locals’. In other words a child who came to the US or the UK at the age of 10, became a citizen and so on could never really represent the country as fully as someone who was born there and had ancestry to boast. If such a child then represented England in cricket or the US in the Davis Cup his (or her) contributions would carry an asterisk. Which is of course the way ‘politics’ often works but that isn’t the ‘ideal’ espoused by the US or the UK (to stick with this example). Now in your example you’d say it’s fine if Dhoni actually grows up in Chennai and then plays for the team. But why this ‘test’ to represent a team? Whether you become a UK citizen at the age of 50 or at the age of 1 you still have the same right to represent the country. Politics might often not allow this but the law does. In some instances there is a ‘birth’ requirement to hold certain offices. I actually find this wrong too.
and to repeat you are not assigning enough important to the historical experience of team sports where ultimately the ‘sign’ of the team trumps all. Barcelona fans don’t like their goals less when Messi scores them!
May 25, 2011 at 2:50 PM
Barca fans should disown their success to Argentine fans coz it’s all down to Messi. Dallas have no proprietary over Mavericks success coz it’s all down to Nowitzki. So the bragging rights belong to Germany. Strange. The main reason to from such franchise competition is to transcend geographical barriers.
May 25, 2011 at 2:53 PM
Forget most crowds. The loudest cheer in Chepauk is still reserved for Sachin. Few decibels higher than Dhoni! And one can see a large number of Chennai people (I’m not from Chennai FYI) supporting MI & Sachin. You will see that on Friday night game. Pity that Bombay crowd didn’t come out to watch CSK match, leave alone supporting a world cup winning captain.
May 25, 2011 at 3:04 PM
When it’s Spain Vs Argentina, what will the “Barca” fans do? It’s Messi, right?
May 25, 2011 at 3:27 PM
That hardly argues against what I’m saying. And I’ve made an allowance for this. But it’s the same logic at work. when it’s the national team people don’t care whether the Bihari gets the runs or the Tamilian the wickets! People who entertain all kinds of native prejudices nonetheless leave them behind when it’s about the team winning. It is still the ‘sign’ of the team that dominates. In one instance it’s given a ‘national’ configuration, in another case a ‘city’ or ‘state’ one. There is absolutely no contradiction between the two because in each case the ‘name’ re-configures reality. So Barcelona fans support Messi when he’s on their team but wouldn’t support him against Spain. Of course this too is simplistic, the two ‘signs’ Messi operates under introduces a degree of ambivalence for Barcelona fans who might be very emotionally invested in him in one arena and not the other but this doesn’t defeat the overall point I’m making. City and state differences can be suspended in a ‘national’ team. Similarly so in a city team. In fact here even national differences can be suspended (Gayle or Malinga or whoever playing for the IPL).
I think you’re completely missing the significance of the ‘sports club’ which can never simply be equated with geographical realities.
May 25, 2011 at 2:56 PM
“the ‘sign’ of the team trumps all.”
So does the Box Office. Now can you repeat after me, SRK’s better than Abhishek Bachchan? It shouldn’t matter how SRK or anyone else gets those hits, ultimately the hits count! Why even analyze the genre of movies that someoen stars in, when the ultimate barometer is the Box office?
This is strange because you take great pains to point out that films go beyond the Box Office. But franchises should only be judged based on their results? In other words, no one else is allowed to even look into those results carefully by spotting the absence/presence of local talent. In response, you are told that it’s the norm everywhere else.
>>In other words if Chennai wins Tamilians should hide their faces in shame because the ‘local’ talent didn’t get it done!
LOL, this is a great way to twist someone’s words. In fact, this is a ‘political’ retort. No one should hide their faces in shame, but at the same time, one should also try to put things in perspective. Your franchise owner made some smart choices during the auction process, those ‘smart’ choices resulted in a win. That’s great, but it would have been better had there been more local players contributing to the big win. That’s how I feel.
May 25, 2011 at 3:19 PM
Not at all sure what the logical connection between the box office and the worth of an actor (or a film) can be made with the argument at hand? Honestly quite stunned that you’re juxtaposing the two. The better re-framing of your argument in movie terms would have been ‘does it matter to the gross of a Hindi film that Hema Malini or Sridevi were Tamilians?’ I think we know the answer! Neither one grew up in Bombay. Sridevi even had a long career in the South. No one said Nagina didn’t count as a Hindi film because Sridevi didn’t even know enough Hindi to dub for it and therefore it’s ‘gross’ was illegitimate!
May 25, 2011 at 3:32 PM
For the Sridevi/Dhoni analogy to be correct, Sridevi would have to be an international celebrity before joining Bollywood. Dhoni did not earn his Indian cap by playing for Chennai. He earned CSK’s pole position by virtue of his national identity. There’s a huge difference.
When RCB reached the finals of the IPL in 2009, they had 4 ‘local’ players contributing majorly to the team’s cause. Dravid, Kumble, Manish Pandey and to a lesser extent, Uthappa. They were bigger contributors than their contingent of foreign players. That’s always nice to see! The whole of Chennai can lay claim on Dhoni, but the fact of the matter is, he did NOT play his first class cricket in Chennai or Tamil Nadu. Ergo, he isn’t a local player as Badrinath or Ashwin.
May 25, 2011 at 3:35 PM
Saket I just don’t think the tournament is set up in the way you would like it to be. There is hardly any local anymore in most front line sports. Look at the EPL. It’s not local at all. People identify with clubs – it is nice when the club promotes youth and it works but you’d be foolish to think when big bucks and corporates are involved that they would “care” much about this.
May 25, 2011 at 3:49 PM
and here you get to the heart of the matter. Corporate logic increasingly trumps national logic!
May 25, 2011 at 3:48 PM
Sridevi was a big star in the South before coming to Bombay! Being international has nothing to do with it. It is exactly the Dhoni/Chennai analogy (cricket just involves being internationally known, there’s nothing specific to Dhoni’s achievement that makes him international.. every player on a national team is know internationally!). Unlike hema Malini she was very entrenched in the South before coming to Bombay. So it wasn’t even a Southern actress getting a real break in Bombay.
May 25, 2011 at 3:52 PM
Saket,
True. But that’s the whole point of IPL. Now there are countless delirious fans of Dhoni in Chennai. IPL gives these fans to lay claim on the man as their pin-up star.
Watch:
May 25, 2011 at 3:54 PM
May 25, 2011 at 3:56 PM
How about this analogy, you’re telling Hindi cinema to stop cheering on Rahman winning an Academy award because it exclusively belongs to Tamil cinema only!
May 25, 2011 at 3:59 PM
Yes, I very well understand that it’s not in the franchise owner’s interest to “promote” local talent, at the cost of the trophy. If the franchises had their way, they’d even get rid of the max. 4 foreign player clause.
I fully understand that part. But, at the same time, a few odd people like me, watch the IPL in the hope of discovering some hidden “local” talent. That’s one of the big reasons why I watch the IPL: to see unknown players perform.
I’m not interested ultimately in who wins the race (I’d like CSK to win, quite honestly), but to see my favorite players perform. And to see players like Paul Valthaty, Rahul Sharma, Iqbal Abdulla, Badrinath etc outperform the foreign players in their respective franchises, for me, is a great delight.
But then, there’s also the spectacle (quite ugly, in my view) of fans supporting their teams without caring about their own local players comiing through. If RCB wins because of Gayle, Vijay Mallya will be more inclined to buy another foreign player for a few million dollars, instead of hunting for local talent. If, however, Iqbal Abdulla like performances come from his catchment area, he’d be more inclined to hunt for more such local talent. The latter, ultimately benefits Indian cricket.
May 25, 2011 at 4:06 PM
Saket, the “local” thing is overated when the fans of those local teams cheer for Tendulkar when he comes out to bat! I just don’t think people care that much! To see players like Valthaty, Sharma etc perform is good but I don’t think it matters too much if they are from the area. The fact that they are performing well is all that matters.
50 years ago sport was local. Now some Londoner is born supporting Manchester United because they are successful. Or some Chinese dude! The ideals behind supporting local talent are nice, but in practise money dictates these sports now and winning, brand power, revenue is way more important. I am not arguing this is “right” just that this is the way it is.
May 25, 2011 at 4:15 PM
WSS, I’m not asking Indian fans to stop cheering for Rahman. Neither am I asking CSK fans to stop cheering for Dhoni.
Perhaps it’s early years for the IPL, but I find it strange that Gambhir, who has played his entire cricket for Delhi, is now going to be considered a ‘local’ boy in Kolkata. That’s the franchise model, yes. But when KKR has only ONE local player (Manoj Tiwary, who for Satyam’s sake, is a Bihari, who played his cricket in Bengal and therefore is a local player, in the real sense of the term), conributing to the team’s passage to the final, whereas even the Indian contingent is from elsewhere (Gambhir, Bhatia – Delhi; Balaji – Chennai, Iqbal Abdulla – Mumbai, Yusuf Pathan – Gujarat/Baroda), the victory seems a bit hollow.
May 25, 2011 at 4:22 PM
Who considers Gambhir a “local” boy though?!?!
May 25, 2011 at 5:06 PM
Saket, the point I’m trying to make is that the purely local has long ago been canceled out by the corporatization of sport as Jay points out. But also that this move reflects a political reality always embedded in the project of the nation-state. A certain fluidity if you will. In certain contexts one is ‘Indian’, in certain others one is a Mumbaikar or what have you. And what I am arguing here is that the latter is not simply a subset of the former. It is so only in certain other contexts whereas in certain others it works in a way so as to cancel out the former. Put differently it is sometimes a subset but at other times only an alternate set with common elements (or an overlapping set). So for example as long as it’s about defending England people in other countries would be more hard-pressed to do so (beyond in a purely relative sense.. so for example in an Aus-Eng match I might prefer the latter to win without being deeply invested in Eng) but when it’s about Man United then suddenly you get fanatical fans even in India.
May 25, 2011 at 5:29 PM
“So for example as long as it’s about defending England people in other countries would be more hard-pressed to do so (beyond in a purely relative sense.. so for example in an Aus-Eng match I might prefer the latter to win without being deeply invested in Eng) but when it’s about Man United then suddenly you get fanatical fans even in India.”
Agree with this. Because being a supporter of Man Utd does not impose “national” loyalty or anything of that sort…being an Indian in India and supporting Man Utd is not seen as disloyalty to Indian teams. Maybe that is because India has not a vested interest in football as such and structural has not produced a team to international status. It essentially boils down to popularity of sport. EPL is a globally followed football league and with such media coverage people natually become 1) interested in the game 2) eventually side or affiliate with a team. India does not possess such powerful local franchises so more often than not fans are just interested in the sport and not the success or failure of a team. I don’t really think fans agonise or celebrate a victory in the IPL like a national game. Where as in England fans would for both club and national game in football; but in cricket they would be similar to India. The branding and franchise of local cricket across the globe is no longer what it use to be. County cricket use to fill stadiums. No longer does.
Even city rivalries in football have become overated. It is now about money, owners and success. Success is a rival or spending power. Abu Dhabi owning Man City immediately elevates a rivalry or Chelsea with Man Utd. The money aspect has superceded what already was a local rivalry between the two Manchester clubs.
May 25, 2011 at 2:24 PM
Sachin does his share but I wish he had hung around a bit longer to finish off the job. It is like he tantalises his detractors by giving them just a little bit to bite on. May be he is just having a little bit of mercy.
May 25, 2011 at 2:27 PM
I did some research on Tendulkar’s performances
The last match winning century he scored in second innings was in 2008 against Asutralia, where he made 117 not out and Indian won the match.
Prior to that, it was back in 2001 when he made 122 not out against West Indies in second innings, leading India to victory.
May 25, 2011 at 2:31 PM
Match winning centuries are not always played in the fourht innings.
Do some more research and you might get closer to the elusive truth instead of flauting your lack of understading of the game.
May 25, 2011 at 2:33 PM
I think he’s talking about ODIs. But if India loses when Sachin scores 175, ANY ONE will see that it’s not his fault! And he did score 175 against Australia while chasing 350!
May 25, 2011 at 2:39 PM
Yeah, that was a one-man show from India and had they won that day, it would’ve counted amongst the greatest knocks in cricket – in all versions of the game
May 25, 2011 at 2:45 PM
That’s not true, Sachin has been blamed in all sorts of situations in both formats, Remember his Chennai 136?
May 25, 2011 at 3:21 PM
Yeah that’s another one! People tend to forget that had it not been for his 136, India would not have come close to winning.
May 25, 2011 at 2:31 PM
wow..Good job MI..
KKR lost…ye ye..At last my wish is granted..
I wanted to Andy Murray to win a grand slam..That DID NOT HAPPEN..
Wanted Brazil to win WC Soccer..That DID NOT HAPPEN..
Wanted Kobe to get his sixth ring/LAKERS win..THAT DID NOT HAPPEN..
Wanted Lebron to loose/Miami to loose..THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN NOW..
Wanted DMD to be Super-Hit..THAT WAS NOT MADE TO HAPPEN..
Wanted KKR not to enter last 4…THAT DID NOT HAPPEN..
Wanted KKR to loose out to MI…THAT DID HAPPEN..
Thank u ..Thank u..Now I don’t care who wins IPL-2011 although I’am from B’lore..
NOW my last wish of the year..WANT Ra1 to NOT TO GROSS 100 cr
..
May 25, 2011 at 2:42 PM
even if it turns out to be a good film?
Thats sadism on your part.. We must pray for people’s success, not loss just for the sake of our satisfaction
May 25, 2011 at 2:49 PM
I actually don’t think there’s anything wrong in wanting a film to flop if one doesn’t support the star and/or the overall film. Exceptions can be made for films like Swades where one can say it’s meaningful film and so on. Surely Ra 1 cannot really surprise anyone on this score?! It might be very entertaining and so on but it’s not a ‘moral’ responsibility to support such a film. And no I cannot say I pray indiscriminately for everyone’s success!
May 26, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Tonymontana,
I agree, one should not pray for others failure..But when it comes to SRK..I just cannot stand his Ego, attitude, showmanship and politics he plays in BW and his agenda against the Bachchans..So my last sentence came out from his dislike..BTW, I did like him very much till 2004 DDLJ and Swades are one of my favs even today..But the day he decided to do KBC-3, Don remake, and his many interviews where he showed his attitude and disrespect to Amitiji my perceptions on him changed..And it’s this just ME..And I’am OK with it…And BTW in sports when we pray for your teams success, you indirectly are praying for the opponents teams failure too
May 26, 2011 at 4:18 PM
Rajesh, I can see where you’re coming from. It’s a distinction I too have tried to make over the years whether it’s SRK or Johar or whoever. I dislike the politics and it is this that I’m battling. Otherwise there is far more to worry about in life. For example I have always disliked Salman but because I don’t have an issue with his politics I am quite indifferent to whether his films work or not. More recently though I’ve wanted him to be successful inasmuch as he’s attempted a masala makeover. Or let me rephrase that, some of his escapades seem inexcusable but those are just about personal behavior. With SRK or Johar there are structural issues, a vast ideological apparatus deployed that has to be contested at every turn. And for people who don’t understand this here’s an example. When I was growing up people my age would not watch older films, they would consider them boring or not be able to relate to them in any way whatsoever. This happens with every generation. We have to learn how to engage with the past. It doesn’t just happen naturally. Much as those who are older also have to adapt and learn how to engage with the present. This doesn’t mean everything is equal, some ages (in terms of their creative output) are better or worse than others but one has to be ‘open’ to the learning process implicated either way. In any case those older films were found boring and that was the end of it. But note what happens today with the ‘Bollywood’ view of the world exemplified by Johar and SRK. They first of all have a very limited understanding of the history, they are mostly illiterate in this matter, they’ve seen a few films here and there that probably everyone has beside the ones they’ve seen growing up as again everyone does. But they nonetheless try and deconstruct those aspects of the history that does not serve their ideological ends. so they pretend that once upon a time films were not as refined or as sophisticated, they have this bemused attitude when they discuss older films, so on and so forth. It is not just what they explicitly say but also what they keep implying. Now clearly they display a terrible anxiety with respect to the heritage (which in one word for them is ‘Amitabh Bachchan’.. they’re obviously not anxious about Raj Kapoor!) and one can get into the reasons but the important point is that they attempt these historical accounts from time to time where the past is always made reductive. Superficially they always talk about the very history that they otherwise deconstruct in polite and reverential ways and even do so in exaggerated fashion (which by the way is also an index of their insincerity). To wit someone like Johar more or less feels someone like Jeetendra is a loser who hung around for as long as he did because audiences in those days were losers too! This sounds harsh but is completely true. This doesn’t mean that I consider Jeetendra a fine star or actor but I have some respect for a guy who could hang around as long as he did but more crucially if I ‘diss’ him as an actor or star there is no larger ideological operation to it. And as a matter of fact I love many of his contemporaries. But with the likes of Johar and SRK every single star is treated like Jeetendra. Barring Bachchan who then becomes the exception to the system. But even here Johar had the rather childish aim (which unfortunately Bachchan went along with) of throwing Bachchan into films with SRK where if you look closely one star is being deconstructed at the expense of the other. Now the audience might not have always seen it this way and sometimes the opposite result might have been achieved but this was in any case the aim. Much as Johar cannot stop shouting from the rooftops that SRK is a superstar or a legend or whatever. If he really were everything Johar likes to think he is everyone would be saying it and Johar wouldn’t need to so much! SRK once said in an interview that “they used to make strange films in the 80s.” How would I put it? That the 80s were poor compared to the 70s but that there were still some very good films made in this decade even if the average film was definitely quite poor. Of course SRK doesn’t want to say the rest here. And by indulging in this sort of vocabulary that deconstruction comes into play. The guy who’s best known for doing films like KKHH which more or less had the maturity (even the props on occasion!) of Saved by the Bell might not be best placed to call the 80s ‘strange’! Sure he’s also said he’s never liked or believed in his love stories. But that’s a far less damaging statement. He did not say he didn’t like the 80s. He said the films were ‘strange’ as if it’s an objective fact. Now I could keep multiplying these examples but this was (and is) the modus operandi of Johar and SRK (not necessarily just these two). The same attitude was also exhibited with most of their peers specially at awards shows where even if the SRK fans pretended not to notice there is a difference between harmless humor and one that constantly tries to deconstruct the other. And to further this agenda a whole media apparatus was deployed, using compromise and corruption. On and on. All of this was an ideological project through and through. And this is what I too have battled over the years. Otherwise I wouldn’t just be bothered by the films. Because there are certain genres in every era I don’t like. There was always a much larger project these guys had. The developments of the last decade have in many ways overtaken them. SRK now has to do Don sequels and jump around in superhero suits (not how even with the remakes there is always that implicit sense that the older film is being ‘refined’). It’s hardly showtime (read Filmfare parties) anymore! So now SRK plays the Anil Kapoor card — hey I’m a legend, no one can be compared with me, I am beyond the numbers game, so on and so forth. This lasts for a while before history overtakes one even here. The thing is no star can conquer time and age. But a great star can reinvent himself or be relevant in a completely different environment. This rarely happens. But either way the use of propaganda was always huge with SRK and Johar and the entire system they set up. Which is why when people keep saying ‘he’s smart’ this too first of all has to be read in ideological terms (what’s so extraordinarily smart about his film choices, he kept doing what worked?! And if using propaganda to further an ideological end is smart well every totalitarian figure is very smart too!) but this ‘excuse’ too came up at a certain time. When he was more challenged by others (Aamir, Hrithik and so on). In the media and online many who either had the same ideological orientation or who found it useful to be this way advanced this narrative quite consistently. SRK fans are as a group simply the most overtly ideological ones (which doesn’t mean every single one, I too was a SRK fan once!). This is obvious in any number of ways. It is all of this that one battles.
May 27, 2011 at 12:44 AM
Thanks a lot Satyam..I completely agree with your views..I’am rather sad that Amitji is not able to identify the agenda of Johar.He still seems to maintain him in close quarters..And SRK who did not like 80′s ended up making ‘OSO’ which he said was a tribute to that period….But not even a reference to greatest star of that ERA in that movie.
May 25, 2011 at 2:51 PM
Sometimes I’m not sure whether it’s better for Ra 1 to score 100 crores from India or not. Because I’m a little worried about the MNIK deal where it didn’t do too much in India which is why we were then treated to week 8 numbers from Indonesia and week 14 numbers from Luxembourg.
May 25, 2011 at 2:32 PM
Its clear that his best years are at least 8 years behind him.
It’ll also be interesting to see how he fares if he’s made to bat at No. 3 or No. 4
May 25, 2011 at 2:34 PM
dude, are you an SRK fan? If not, who’s your favorite player? Don’t tell me it’s Gambhir right now…
May 25, 2011 at 2:53 PM
No.. one series of good scores wont make Gambhir my favourite..
Rahul Dravid in tests and Sachin Tendulkar in ODIs..
Have enjoyed watching Jayasuriya, Gilchrist, De Silva, Lara, Bevan, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, and Andy Flower too.
Ive grown up, watching Sachin’s cricket. but facts are facts.
Im not saying that SRT has turned out to be a mediocre player in the later part of his career.. As rajen mentioned, he’s still miles ahead than the rest. Its just that he isnt a one-man show any longer; you could attribute this to the Indian team getting stronger or to Tendulkar making a major difference to his style of play.
Its also true that cricket-crazy, more of Sachin-crazy fans these days expect him to make a century every time he comes to bat. Whether India loses or wins is secondary to many of them. And this is what Tendulkar’s cricket has been reduced to most of us.
Truth be told, someone must tell them that his centuries are not a big deal and are secondary to India’s winning. I say again, Tendulkar’s not at fault here
May 25, 2011 at 3:01 PM
“Truth be told, someone must tell them that his centuries are not a big deal and are secondary to India’s winning.”
I can’t agree more!
May 25, 2011 at 3:15 PM
Agree.
Some of us are guilty of sometimes thinking Sachin’s success is the most important thing in Indain cricket.
We forget the fact fact it is the ONLY thing!
Just kiddin!
May 25, 2011 at 3:19 PM
Thanks man!
May 25, 2011 at 3:27 PM
Sachin has scored 513 runs in IPL 2011 @ strike rate of 111. It’s a fairly low strike rate but he has assumed the role of anchoring the innings. Plus in some low run chases early in the tournament he just made sure of victory then blitzing. He is the 3rd highest scorer in the tournament and in with a shout of scoring most runs.
In IPL 2010 he scored the MOST runs in the IPL 618 @ 133 strike rate.
The guy is 38. And still scores more runs then most. In a team this year where the middle order has pretty much desserted him (Symonds, Pollard pretty poor, Sharma inconsistent).
He is no Raina or Gayle or Sehwag in this format. Granted he won’t score at 180 strike rate. But its not his role in a side which comprises of Pollard or Symonds or Jacobs or Blizzard. To assess a players value to the team you’ve got to assess the strengths and weaknesses of all the team. Without Tendulkar and Malinga this Mumbai team would be pretty much third rate in the tournament.
Arguments against Tendulkar are counter productive. On the one hand all kinds of scenarios and stats are used “against” him to diminish his stature, to reduce him to a normal player. But such standards should not be applied to a normal player in the first place! It would be like critisising Sehwag for not scoring at 100 strike rate the next time he scores a test century. Or critising Malinga for bowling a wide in trying to execute a yorker. Compare against the rest, not the standard set by the person. Tendulkar would still today walk into the Indian ODI or test team or ANY team in the world – literally walk in. Any stats from the last 2 years will clear that argument up in no time – that too at the age of 38 after a career spanning 20 years. Most cricketers are past it, literally by this age. Tendulkar can not only still bat, he can still perform to high standard and take bowlers apart. He is maybe just more choosy about it then when he was 22.
May 25, 2011 at 3:28 PM
your argument is definitive for me on this matter..
May 25, 2011 at 3:36 PM
Well said!
May 25, 2011 at 4:37 PM
Agreed, for the most part. But I’d like to add that Malinga is the sole reason why MI find themselves in the playoffs. The #2 reason is their ground fielding. It’s been outstanding all season.
May 25, 2011 at 2:57 PM
n yes, Im an SRK fan.
But Im a movie lover first.
May 25, 2011 at 3:17 PM
I think they are mutually exclusive!
May 25, 2011 at 3:28 PM
Lol rajen.. You’re a funny man!
Honestly speaking, none of my laptop movie collection includes an SRK film. Coz the latter are of the enjoy n forget variety with no repeat value as such, unless you talk about a Baadshah or a Kabhi haan kabhi naa, the former more for its wacky sense of fun.
May 25, 2011 at 2:36 PM
Well, if this is not his best, it is miles better than the best of those in their prime supposed to challenge his supremacy.
One thing common to SRK fans and Sachin detractors ( surprising how they often go hand in hand) is they are never fazed by truth. It is a minor inconvinience that they dont let get in way of their pursuit of their agenda.
Logic is another victim.
I am running out of benevolence and pity for these guys.
May 25, 2011 at 2:44 PM
weirdly there’s not a cricket expert who agrees with you specially given his performance over the last couple of years. Interesting this kind of criterion represents in some ways the ‘Americanization’ of cricket because there are certain kinds of stats that have erupted as well as certain questions raised about the game and its players that were never traditionally asked. I won’t even get into the debate of just how complicated settling such a question in cricket is.
May 25, 2011 at 3:08 PM
It would also be interesting to see how Sehwag, Ponting and Kallis bat at #11
May 25, 2011 at 3:13 PM
LOL!!!!
May 25, 2011 at 2:39 PM
Re: dude, are you an SRK fan?
Since when did SRK having ‘dude’ fans. Just some dudettes masquerading as dudes.
May 25, 2011 at 2:53 PM
@saket- well they pulled it off
saved ur blushes 
May 25, 2011 at 3:00 PM
Yeah, though I know how my foot tastes in my mouth before. But even so, well played KKR. Gambhir’s a good captain.
May 25, 2011 at 3:19 PM
Have to admit, the more I trash Harbhajan, the more I taste my foot, every so often. Guess have to concede he is a “big moment” player. Plays well when the stakes are high etc. Did well in the semis in the WC and today, in the eleminator.
May 25, 2011 at 3:21 PM
Glad you realise that Saket and more importanty admit it. If Gayle comes up with another big one, you will be refamiliarised with your foot!
I ama Bhajji fan. He is indeed a big moments kind of guy. If not always consistent.
May 25, 2011 at 3:36 PM
Gayle, literally, is a tough pill to swallow. He could Bradman’s batting records, but he is a fugly basman. Effective, in fact, the most impactful player in this IPL, but fugly to watch.
May 25, 2011 at 3:27 PM
Truth be told, some moms are disppointed with todays results.Particularly the ones who were tired of using the smae old line with their kids- Soja beta warna Gabbar ayega. They were hoping to replace it with -Soja beta warna nange SRK ki tasveer dikhaungi. Tho,one shudders to think what kind of psychological trauma that would impose on the poor kids.
May 25, 2011 at 4:36 PM
Jay, I can’t ever understand how one can align himself with a club that’s in the North of England, without ever having lived there. I, myself, would never give a toss about some world-beating local cricket team in Australia (New South Wales or whatever!). But that’s me. In the IPL, I don’t have any local team. I just support my favorite players and try to look out for young, upcoming talent.
May 25, 2011 at 4:37 PM
It’s the norm though Saket. There are more United fans in North London then Manchester itself! When sport becomes about celebrities it becomes about supporting the celebrities. Blame David Beckham!
May 25, 2011 at 11:39 PM
@saket : it happens. i feel like united is my team.
actually i was never a football freak, but once 8-9 years ago, I saw a team wearing red colour jersey losing, 1-3 and later i saw that team losing again this time i identified the team by its name manu i used to pronounce it “maanuu” and becoz they were losing i used to identify them by the bald goalkeeper (barthez) and once i saw david beckham coming to pitch, and recieving grand welcome by spectators of theater of dreams and commentator said here comes captain of england… and i decided among those days i would support this team in football.
One week later icame to know team is called Manchester United and its one of the greatest teams in footballing history.
I was a fan, still am… and i feel more close to it than any ipl or any cricket team, reasons which transcend football even, i guess as theres so much to learn and admire about man united i felt.
THere are two teams in football in club level people can be inspired or learn from (or may be 3)
- barcelona (their philosophy, is quite inspiring and motivating)
- manchester united (we have star players leaving us again and again but we rebuild and one man alex ferguson, is a man from who we can learn a lot)
- Arsenal (another philosophy)
i feel looking from this prism, i have found football more fascinating and inspiring.
and yup sitting in India, i can support United, as they are a team that i support.
May 26, 2011 at 5:55 AM
I’ve got no problems with your philosophy, Rooney. It’s just that as far as I’m concerned, there’s no personal investment for me in supporting Man U or Barca. They are not Indian clubs, don’t have Indians playing for them, although I’d like to see Messi doing well.
My reasons for supporting a club, a franchise are just different. I guess I could support Bangalore (and I did, for 3 years) or Delhi in the IPL (and I supported them as well) because I’ve lived there for some time at least, but the absence of local talent spoils it for me. Delhi Daredevils, amongst all IPL teams had the most number of local players in its lineup for the last 3 seasons. Today, apart from Sehwag, there’s hardly anyone who can be called a Delhite. The same is the case with Bangalore.
But that’s a different story. Getting back to your point, I can’t really understand how you can support Man U, but I’m totally ok with it. I’m kind of an underdog supporter, I guess. I’m not exactly a big follower of Baseball but I’d support the Oakland A’s because they always work on the smallest budget and produce great players (who unfortunately leave the club and join the big ones for a greater price) through their farming system. But that’s me! And I can’t possibly force my thinking on anyone else.
May 26, 2011 at 9:04 AM
@saket- me too a underdog supporter
but it just happened that when i started watching them they where on their worst losing run in years!! and i started to cheer them!
rest i agree each has his own reasons, for me this brought a change i started to love this game of football.
another point: today english premier league is no longer about local pride or honour, its an interantional level competition as u see most teams are having players from across the world.
and same about Uefa Champions League.
Their object is no longer promoting local boys/local players/english etc… play the best football in the world. get best players in the world.
Now turn to this if one likes soccer, there are only two leagues most watched in the world, as unlike cricket we dont have full year international, so football fan come backs to local league of england/ spain / germany/ italy.
But i understand ur point, but look from angle of global football u would get wat i mean i hope!!!
May 25, 2011 at 6:02 PM
Just back from work(& a post work party)
Totally missed this match
A)I am not concerned/ happy about SRKS wet dream being over…
It’s only that I am now relieved thAt the very perverse unhealthy self- chest- beating reaction that a kKR win wouldve elicited will not be visible ..
B) think this was the best chance EVER for kkr to do something substantial in IPL – but if this is their “summit”, then….
C)Ps-There is nothing wrong in dissecting sachins performances and obvious human failings BUT
D) can anybody argue that he is one of the (perhaps the) best cricketer ever
E) if someone’s international career lasts more than two decades, is one not expecting some peaks and troughs…
One should celebrate sachin- period……
May 25, 2011 at 6:32 PM
Good point by Saket,Jay and Satyam.
And all valid.
What complicates matters is the fact that aside from IPL/CL, there still is truly local cricket in India in form of Ranji/Duleep trophy. So it IS a little weird to see someone play Ranji for Delhi, Duleep for North Zone and IPL from Calcutta.
Sachin as lways is the rare exception as no one would ever imagine him playing for any other team but Mumbai in any form of cricket.
One can dissect Sachin’s performances/career to one’s heart content but he has nothing left to prove.
Again the argument of celebrating Sachin’s performances versus Indain victories is a little delusional as this is not an either/or or mutually exclusive.
Let us just say that Sachin gives more occasions to celebrate his performances or ‘centuries’ than Indain team offers victories.
No Sachin fan is saying that his performance transcends the fortunes of Indian team. It is just another attempt to belittle Sachin.
And, people who start saying I am a fan of so and so but I feel…. are usually liars.
Again, it is not a crime not to be a Sachin fan but come out and say it instead of making ridiculous attempts to belittle an exemplary and a unique career.
There is nothing left to prove or nothing open to question. Period.
If some still feel the need to jerk off to the beat of – ‘Sachin never contributes to India’s victory’ , do it elsewhere.
May 26, 2011 at 6:01 AM
“So it IS a little weird to see someone play Ranji for Delhi, Duleep for North Zone and IPL from Calcutta.”
Exactly. Raina still plays Ranji Trophy for UP. Gambhir is Delhi’s captain. Yuvraj plays for Punjab and so on. And it’s not the IPL that decides who gets into the national squad. It’s the Ranji Trophy, still and that criteria isn’t going to change. For all the hoopla surrounding the IPL, no IPL performer from this season has received an India call-up based on his IPL performance alone. Badrinath was the highest run-scorer in Ranji in the last season, has been a consistent performer for years, and therefore gets his chance.
May 26, 2011 at 6:29 AM
The resentment may be due to Bombay player dominance over the years versus rest of India. But that glass ceiling was broken by the likes of Kapil Dev, Azharuddin, Ganguly, Dravid and now Dhoni. Now every part of India boasts of top class cricketers and no region is discriminated. If Gavaskar and Kapil Dev can be described in terms of bollywood as Bachchan type figures, Sachin is the SRK of cricket.
May 26, 2011 at 6:47 AM
“Sachin is the SRK of cricket.”
Somebody above was saying ” Gor Kalyug”.. I got confirmation of the same.
Srk’s or for that matter any star movies doesnt make India’s heart beat But SRT makes India’s heart Beat to JOY, Bliss or to a Nation’s Sigh… He has affected the Psyche of India, Emotional Connect, He is India’s ” Tendluya”..
SRT and srk on same line is preposterous
May 26, 2011 at 7:09 AM
When we say somebody is like a lion, we dont assume that he is a real lion. It is a close comparison in terms of media lionisation and overall popularity. For cricket loving public Sachin is god. But there are many who think that cricket has sidelined other sports and they have other icons. Likwise SRK may be popular among a certain crowd, but the other crowd may prefer other stars. India and hindus in particular worship multi gods. Northerners worship Ram, Bengalis worship Durga, maharashrians worship Ganpati, tamilians worship Lord Muruga and so on and so forth. Some love Gandhis, some love Modi, some love Mamta, some love communists.
May 26, 2011 at 7:28 AM
You raised Srk to SRT’s Level and no reason can justify that.
“Cricket has sidelined other sports”
SRT is not be balmed for that. We indians must take blame instead we alwys look out for external agent to pass the buck…
Media has not Lionized SRT. Media followed Him. its natural as if u r in dark, instinctively if u see a ray of light you goona follow it.. SRT was such light at that given moment in India’s history..
I have yet to meet a person who says that such and such actor gives me joy but every 3rd person in india may say same for sachin ( leaving fans aside)… He is not God in literal sense but Super Human in every sense and no filmi star is that… SRT is sun and srk is just one of millions of stars twinkling ..
And there is no comparison be it media lionization and over all popularity… Its not some certain crowd but Pan india where Sachin may be the only figure that transcends age, caste, religion, region, gender. if you need proof just look at IPL matches all MI matches home or away were sold out 3 weeks before only coz of SRT, even so called srk’s matches were played to empty stands and only for MI match Eden garden was Capacity full.. and listen to the Cheers he gets even in home away places… As they say Every Ground in India is SRT’s Home Ground and that is not Media created news but “Fact”.
May 26, 2011 at 7:40 AM
No one in his right senses blame SRT for the sidelining of other sports. Are you thinking that cricket is synonymus with SRT? When some say that cricket in India has eclipsed other sports, the game is blamed, not the players. Infact not even game , but the media is blamed for giving so much space for crcket news and highlighting everything regarding cricket and pandering to the cricket lovers more. And lovers of other sports feel like step children.
May 26, 2011 at 7:39 AM
I agree there is lot of media created things but no media lionization can sustain “Bubble” for 20 yrs if that bubble is not bubble but Ocean.. Sachin is not Bubble created by media or patronized by media.
May 26, 2011 at 7:44 AM
Again you are assuming things. Who says that Sachin is a bubble? We can say Dhoni, Yuvraj and others like them are bubbles Or upstarts. Until they stand the test of time.
May 26, 2011 at 6:59 AM
When a Punjabi plays for Pune warriors, when Dravid goes to Punjab, it is difficult to digest. And the public tries to identify the teams with the particular captain only. Thus they will cheer a Dhoni, a Yuvraj, a Gambhir because they are playing. If tomorrow there is no Dhoni in CSK, the supporters will also become less. Thus IPL will give rise to personalities rather than teams. And if Ganguly comes good and he plays against KKR, the Eden crowd obviously will cheer him. In that Mumbai players are lucky to have Sachin always playing for them and their loyalty will not face any challenges. Thus regional loyalties will clash with personality loyalties and ultimately the former may win. A sort of multiple personality disorder. Or can we call it identity crisis?
May 26, 2011 at 7:59 AM
Re: “Sachin is the SRK of cricket.”
May be Camping was correct and the judgement day is here and the end of the world is upon us. Cannot think of a worse or a more inappropriate analogy. SRK is a popular star, may be superstar. He doesnt enjoy the love of the nation and cannot boast supremacy amongst the entire world ( atleast cricket playing world ) that SRT does. SRT’s star in cricket world has a million times more luminiscenece than SRK’s in BW. One might say SRT is the Bachchan of cricket and you might be closer to the truth. What blasphemy!
In terms of local stars playing for non local teams, public is more comfortable with it than us. They have adapted to the adapted to the dichotomy quite well.
May 26, 2011 at 8:11 AM
Bachchan is nearing 70 and Sachin is 37. So I want to take somebody in his own age group. We can take Salman or Aamir in place of SRK. I know movies and cricket are parallel lines never meeting, each having its own destiny. If we have to take some one from sports world, i will take Federer’s name to compare Sachin’s popularity.
May 26, 2011 at 10:42 AM
“If some still feel the need to jerk off to the beat of – ‘Sachin never contributes to India’s victory’ , do it elsewhere.”
Now I know whom you were pointing your statement towards, though I have never said what you believe I do. It might be my critical viewpoint of Sachin’s statistics but that doesnt mean you come up with ridiculous comments on someone’s taste or even make degrading remarks about doubting his gender n sexuality. Time n again, I have been reading your comments and when you feel enraged by someone’s comments against a particular star you admire or a sportsman you worship, you come up with extremely offensive remarks, directly insulting the user. You talked about me being a dudette above. I thought of ignoring it but could you stop being personal and keep your statements strictly related to the topic under discussion?
And I would want Satyam to clarify this. If someone prays for someone’s failure (like a random comment about wanting Ra One to flop/underperform), does that count as Freedom of Expression on this blog, as you said above? Whereas if someone decides to make a criticism of a top player’s second innings record, are we supposed to talk about it elsewhere and are subject to personal remarks?
I know that rajen is one of the respected and earliest members of this blog. So most people will try to defend him as they’ve done before. Or you could make it clear-cut that forum rules vary according to members!
May 26, 2011 at 11:09 AM
TonyMontana.. you can say whatever you want to about Sachin (or anyone else). There’s no issue. There aren’t different rules for different members here. I’ll let Rajen respond to this comment himself. I generally don’t edit anything unless I feel two people are either having a fight or are likely to have one based on an exchange. The same goes for directly abusive language. I think Rajen often uses sexual innuendo as humor but also as insult. I don’t however think it should be taken all that seriously. The problem is sometimes if you know enough of a person you realize where they’re coming from and something that seems very offensive on its face is mediated by this knowledge. But since you object to this rather strongly it shouldn’t be done with you and I would say this for anyone else who feels the same way. There have been times when Rajen has said these things and others have responded in the same way and the exchange was kept intact. But I do understand where you’re coming from. I personally think there’s a difference between direct abuse and sexual innuendo but that might just be the Shakespeare lover in me (the Bard will never let an opportunity go to introduce sexual innuendo!). At times I have been treated to both and I never really did mind the latter (again I objected more to communal or ethnic innuendo) but that’s just me. In any case there aren’t different rules here but there is a judgment call in the sense that sometimes one knows where one person is coming from better than another. Obviously if it’s direct abuse that’s a different matter. If you consider this kind of innuendo as bad as abuse it shouldn’t be directed at you. That’s a simple call.
Phew.. after that defense I get a free consultation from Rajen!
May 26, 2011 at 11:14 AM
Thanks for your response Satyam. I appreciate your comment on this!
May 26, 2011 at 12:12 PM
LOL.
Ditto to what Satyam said.
First of all I never named you.If you felt the comment was directed at a group you feel you are a part of, it is a different story.
I do agree that I have low tolerance for the same argument that has been proven to be wrong made again and again, based on whatever ( personal dislike ,jealousy).You have done it atleast twice on this thread. After a while these childish games become boring and tiresome. I find it somewhat annoying when instead of admitting dislike or even hatred, people resort to insinuation and selective data dredging to diminish someone. Doesnt lead to a honest or a worthwhile discourse. Sorry to bring in SRK but I freely admit I hate his politics, insecurity ( often masquerading as brashness) manipulation. I am not going to say K3G or DDLJ were not blockbusters/big hits.Same with Sachin.If one doesnt like him, say it. Instead of using selective data to show he didnt matter in an Indain victory. You have done it often and there are others who resort to the same thing. It gets tiring after a while. And if someone doesnt take subtle hints,I resort to a verbsal sledgehammer.
Disagreement in an argument is fine.Dishonesty is not,IMO.
I HOPE YOU GET THE POINT.
After this if you still feel slighted, I WOULD say I am sorry. Sorry that it hurt you. And also sorry that people feel they have a right to patently dishonest line of argument but not the temperament to face the results. Most of the people who come here to make fun of Amitabh,Abhishek,Sachin etc are also active on other forums which I do check out time to time.
And, my response to them is based on their behaviour here as well as elsewhere. Becoz ,I do notice their tone and content changes depending on the forum. Even if their biases dont.
May 26, 2011 at 11:16 AM
by the way on the ‘freedom of expression’ thing anyone can say anything they like. There are no ‘rules’. On Ra 1 my only point yesterday was that there is no ‘moral’ question either way. If someone wishes for it to flop and if someone on the other hand wants it to be a hit for me it’s the very same thing. I don’t quite buy into the ‘morality’ of ‘hey films should do well and it’s good for the industry and what not’. People like Taran and Nahata use this kind of logic all the time but then when they want to pull a film down they mercilessly rip it apart in every way imaginable. Doesn’t that cost the film some tickets (people who are influenced by their opinion)? Why don’t they tone things down for the good of the film in these instances?! Of course speaking for myself I would love to believe that God follows the box office but I have my doubts.
May 26, 2011 at 11:32 AM
Agree with that, and when I made that comment on Ra.One flopping, it was a light one and I never seriously questioned the user. If someone comes up with a Congrats – so and so film flopped, I know it wont be against the rules of any sort.
My only concern in the post was carrying forward the same analogy to other things apart from Bollywood. Its pretty normalif you want a team to lose, right? So what if someone observes Sachin’s not playing a major inning..
But you cleared it in your previous post.So thats okay
May 26, 2011 at 11:43 AM
Is this for real?
http://www.hindustantimes.com/When-SRK-s-ego-was-bruised/Article1-702257.aspx
“The last time Shah Rukh turned up for a KKR match in the city, he was booed by a large section of the crowd. It hurt him badly,”
May 26, 2011 at 12:18 PM
wow!
May 26, 2011 at 12:21 PM
Am not surprised. Dada enjoys a tremendous loyalty and following in Bengal. Am surprised we have not seen more of this.
At the start of the season, it would have been easy to placate Ganguly and his supporters by offering some face saving device. But, they chose to bludgeon ahead with a false sense of bravado in the hope that they will win and winning will quiten everyone. Now that they didnt win, these issues are bound to raise up their head.
Yankees had same issue with Jeter and even tho they tried to put up a brave afce ,they had to agree to a deal that would not be justified onb his present form and expected returns.
May 26, 2011 at 12:28 PM
agreed all round..
May 26, 2011 at 11:46 AM
This is just the beginning. If he continues on same path, the Wafa kind of Rajesh Khanna nadir is not far off.
May 26, 2011 at 12:19 PM
or so your fantasy goes..! He’s worked with far more prestige names this past decade than any of his younger peers. But you might have forgotten to notice! What does the Rajneeti director do after such a huge grosser? He goes to Bachchan! Here I must agree with Rajen. Some comments are so offensively silly and ridiculous that one feels bad for responding so politely! But hey if you think this is a ‘beginning’ at close to 70 he’s probably doing something right!
May 26, 2011 at 12:37 PM
for the uninformed , this is indeed a real ‘ zindagi ke safar mein jo guzar jaaten hain makaam ” moment for rajesh Khanna -
LINK
May 26, 2011 at 1:51 PM
Hahaha msdhony thanx for that info on rajesh khanna– didn’t know he had fallen into these “depths” of c grade stuff…
Lol @zindagi ke safar mein” moment….
Incidentally that song is one of my all-time favourites…
The lyrics are a case study of what a Hindi film lyrics SHOULD be -accessible, endearing bu uncomplicated
This is where sometimes(not always) Anand bakshi trumped the vastly superior jäved akhtar and gulzar.
It also was quite well placed in the film and Rajesh performed well.
Rd burman was in form and u have a timeless poten mix
Add kishore kr at his peak and u have a bonfide classic
Sometimes when u go to a uni reunion and meet an ex-flame,u realise the depth of this song!!! Everything is for the better-njoy
May 26, 2011 at 1:54 PM
ironically when this film and song came about in 1974 it was already the beginning of the end for Rajesh Khanna.. and with him the decline was as dramatically compressed as was his rise..
May 26, 2011 at 8:05 PM
hahaha
Just noticed that a wrong link of some wierdo trying a “karaoke” on this song was posted above—may actually be removed (although it is quite unintentionally funny)
The real version by Kishore Kr–
May 26, 2011 at 12:43 PM
Comments are x-rossing so dunno where is it addressed.
fyg last two comments are on SRK and his future in response to Saket’s link posted.
May 26, 2011 at 2:16 PM
Agree.
Actually I now feel that rajah khanna has somehow not been treated by history and cinema discourse well.
Ok, his acting abilities were not outstanding but were reasonable. He saw a phase unparalleled even by Bachchanesque standards….
He was the first and one of only two bonafide superstars of indian cinema.
Somehow I see v little respect and ample ridicule for him.
People love to dl that when one is done and out.
Ps– the song above is easily in my top ten all-time ilhindi film songs !!!!!!
May 26, 2011 at 2:35 PM
Rajesh Khanna’s charm was unique and he had a great success story at one point of time which he destroyed with his own hands due to ego. Those who ridicule him are those that worship only running horses. Kishore Kumar and the Burmans gave their best songs to his movies which were also picturised beautifully.His movies had mintfresh feel with romance, drama, music with old world style.
May 26, 2011 at 2:44 PM
His movies had that mintfresh feel with old world charm even now. But his personal life went haywire with many wreckless decisions and many of his fans could not believe that in real life he was really a very difficult man to deal with.Seems success went to his head. Atleast Dimple is now leading a saner independent life while his daughters married and leading decent lives. We must compliment Dimple for this. I am writing all this in past tense because the hero is long dead but what remains is a shadow of himself.
May 27, 2011 at 12:29 AM
LO…u guys are discussing all this juicy details and all the while I thought it was stupid cricket and wasn’t even clicking on the link!!! LOLZ. Dimple was not all that of a saint. She was rummy (cards) playing lazy housewife. My friends who were her neighbors recall RK beating her, pulling her by her hair etc. I think later on somewhere she confessed as to why she didn’t leave RK earlier (everyone trys to be bhartiya naari and be good) and that men can be expected to have fidelity just like woman etc. I think all may not be well with JB and BIGB marraige even now…infedelity leaves ugly scars…people stick around because of kids..and sometimes they are too decent to wash dirty laundry in public. I think JB maintained dignified silence thro’ out the difficult period and so did Dharam’s wife!!! I can’t imagine though why women like Hema/Sridevi settle for married men and play the 2nd wife.
May 27, 2011 at 1:16 AM
When Rajesh married Dimple, it was called cradle snatching. She was all starry eyed to have married the heartbeat of many young girls. The problem is Rajesh Khanna could not stick to any woman whether it was Anju Mahendroo, or his favourite heroines(M and Sh), Tina or others. Not to forget Devyani Chaubal who was his very special friend and who described Tina as sadela pakora. Some men, some women are just dont fit into the confinement of marriage, it seems. They just cant handle that responsibility or pressure.
May 26, 2011 at 3:03 PM
There are a few points bout Dimple kapadias “independent ” life…
She supposedly got solace in the “arms” of sunny deol lol
May 26, 2011 at 3:11 PM
She never got love from her husband. He had so many affairs. And why cant she have an affair? With Sunny, she allegedly had a long affair and Dharmendra was worried. Yet Twinkle was cast opposite Bobby Deol in Barsaat. Dimple got into exotic candle making business and is still acting in some odd movies. Better to lead one’s own life than compromise with a difficult and moody human being called a husband.
May 27, 2011 at 12:33 AM
AA exemplifies typical male-MCP (desi men on top of it) attitude. They will criticise arbaaz khan’s wife (badnam munnis real name?) but never blame any of the married men for two(3 or 4) timing their wives!
May 26, 2011 at 3:38 PM
Rajesh Khanna is a story in self destruction.He had world at his feet and gave it all away. I did like him a lot and rooted for him long after the glory days but alas, he did little to help his cause.
May 26, 2011 at 4:20 PM
Rajesh Khanna blundered badly in some ways but he was also a victim of history.
May 26, 2011 at 4:08 PM
With your above comment above on dimples affairs and the (rightful) empathy with which u made that point, Vatikala, you have proved bwyond doubt that u r a female lol, irrespective of the physical embodiments…
Yes, there is nothing wrong with her “affairs” with younger men…
Ps— I have a certain original point here on Rajesh khanna…
Spare some thought for the poor guy.
Just two- three decades ago, females used to marry his photograph and henwas literally at the top of the world/..
And then there was this sudden descent into an abysss ,both professional and personal….
The magnitude of extremities he had had to endure is enormous , taking into account everything…
Dont condone his acting in c grade stuff and doing semiporn stuff. But guys give him some respect …
Many in the west become drug addicts or
Nervous wrecks or are caught “commando style” a la britney spears….he is not the only one…..
Think it is bs um politically correct to ONLy see the female perspective.
One can argue that a more sensible female like jaya bachchan could have “handled” Rajesh khanna better rather than indulging with kiddies like sunny deol and akshAye khanna — just an original thought!!! Hahaha
Lol
May 26, 2011 at 7:31 PM
Sunny Deol(54) is one year older than Dimple Kapadia(53).
Its just that Dimple retired right away after Bobby and married Rajesh Khanna in 1973 at the age of 16.
Later, after giving birth to Twinkle and Rinke , and probably falling out with Rajesh, she made a comeback in mid 80′s doing many movies. She was around 25+.
She was quite the hot heroine back then working with young bloods Sunny deol, Anil Kapoor, Jackie Shroff all within her range agewise.
Ofcourse she had long relationship with Sunny, by early 90′s they almost got married.Somehow miraculously it was saved.
May 26, 2011 at 7:33 PM
Awesome Song from Jaanbaaz(1986)
May 26, 2011 at 7:35 PM
Another Great Hit of the times, Saagar (1986)
May 26, 2011 at 7:53 PM
dogA—Thanx for the links–(am more than aware of Dimples “merits” and charms though)lol
The point was that if Rajesh Khanna had a jaya b-like sensible anchor, would thingz be any different for him–maybe not—but a thought!!
Gambhir in trouble—why did he play during injury in IPL.
Did KKR/ SRK pressurise him?
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110527/jsp/sports/story_14036288.jsp
st stephens in news again–
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110527/jsp/sports/story_14036288.jsp
May 26, 2011 at 7:42 PM
There was a scene in the hay in Jaanbaz that was to die for!
May 26, 2011 at 10:26 PM
He also ill treated Tina who waited for him for more than 5 years. Look where is she now. Every woman cannot be a Jaya Bachchan who had monumental patience. She put up with so many things and survived.
For all his personal indiscretions, i still love his ever green hits especially the musical parts. And when he utters the name Pushpa, it is really magical. He is like Sharatchandra chatterjee’s Devdas.
May 26, 2011 at 4:23 PM
Why you didn’t see King khan at the wankhede last night
SRK retires hurt after he’s booed at IPL game
Wednesday’s no-show came after a section of the crowd heckled him during KKR’s match at D Y Patil
Saumit Singh
Pretty Good Pretty Good Pretty Good Pretty Good Pretty Good
Posted On Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 05:07:33 AM
It was touted as the clash of the tournament. On Wednesday night, as Wankhede played host to a match between Kolkata Knight Riders and Mumbai Indians, many saw it as the ultimate faceoff between two iconic Mumbaikars- Shah Rukh Khan and Mukesh Ambani.
And while the Ambani clan turned up in their all-blue regalia, cheering for their team, the KKR stand was shorn of its brightest star.
Shah Rukh Khan was not there. In fact he was far away, in the cosy confines of Mannat, watching the match on his giant LCD screen with good friend Karan Johar and other close friends.
And while the world was led to believe Khan was celebrating his best buddy’s birthday – K Jo turned 39 last night – we were told by some of his closest friends that SRK’s absence had a lot to do with a bruised ego as well.
Speaking exclusively to Mumbai Mirror, SRK’s close friend and Juhi Chawla’s husband, Jai Mehta, said, “The last time Shah Rukh turned up for a KKR match in the city, he was booed by a large section of the crowd. It hurt him badly.”
The match, which was held at Navi Mumbai’s D Y Patil Stadium on May 19, saw KKR give Pune Warriors a sound drubbing.
Hurt, Shah Rukh Khan has vowed never to turn up for any KKR match in any of the city stadiums
It was a high-pitched contest, because it saw Sourav Ganguly playing against his former home team for the first time.
While all those who expected fireworks between Ganguly and SRK were disappointed, a section of the crowd did not take SRK’s win sportingly.
Mumbai Mirror has learnt that the Badshah confessed to his closest pals that the booing and the jeering from his “own people” left him bruised. “After doing so much for this city, this is not what I expected,” he reportedly told his friends. “And he has vowed never to turn up for any KKR match in any of the city stadiums,” Jai Mehta added.
This is not the first time that SRK has exposed his vulnerable side. Some time ago, the star swore off micro-blogging site Twitter, after being hit by a volley of abusive messages.
“Twitter broke my heart,” he said, “I need to cut myself off from negative energies.”
May 26, 2011 at 4:30 PM
Where is the thick skin SRK?
May 26, 2011 at 10:42 PM
Let SRK handover KKR team to Karan Johar and concentrate on his career.
Bachchan retired from active politics after he was hit by V.P.Singh and others repeatedly.
Aamir Khan stopped direct criticism of Modi aand started praising development in Gujarat.
Let SRK also do the same and live in peace.
May 27, 2011 at 12:38 AM
Actually SRK’s downfall will be 1000 times worse than Rajesh Khanna (RK)…when you are mega star but not well grounded person, then dealing with success is kinda easy but dealing with failure ain’t and you need mega b…s for surviving in life of anonymity just as you survive in limelight. BIGB for instance is fairly grounded person. You have to have a plan B. Limelight and success at BO and movies are always shortlived. SRK probably is in fag end of his career (my opinion)…..if RA-one is flop, he will be finished. Mark my words.
May 27, 2011 at 1:06 AM
SRK is not 10 percent of Rajesh Khanna.
May 26, 2011 at 4:47 PM
Hahaha agree jayshah..
Srk always makes fun of others in AwRd functions etc and later argues that his is just “fun”.
Surprised to see his “vulnerable” side.
Ps saw priyanka choprs in one of the kkr matches with Srk…
Have been following the body language.
At the very least, this proves that Srk is not gay (but a bi)— lol
Maybe he is not Asexual ….
May 27, 2011 at 1:49 AM
@Rajesh
NOW my last wish of the year..WANT Ra1 to NOT TO GROSS 100 cr ..
Jai Ho Prabhu ! Agar Sab aapki jaise hi Sochne lage to then world is a far better plact to live. Thank god you said my last wish of the year not my my last wish.
May 27, 2011 at 2:09 AM
last wish. good one dj.
May 27, 2011 at 2:17 AM
@dj
wow.look at you..
when you can comment on my last wish, how can you write this to me..
‘Thank god you said my last wish of the year not my my last wish.”
I pray and wish you live longer to make many more comments.
I’am not sure how the World is better place to live if one wants the other person’s wish to be last..Anyway as long as SRK makes movies I will do my wishes weather it is last of first, you please don’t worry.
May 27, 2011 at 3:56 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/Abhishek-teases-Shah-Rukh/articleshow/8600090.cms
May 27, 2011 at 8:42 AM
LOL!
May 27, 2011 at 9:22 AM
SRK’s career has supposedly been in Danger since 2000 when Hrithik Roshan Arrived.
But since then SRK has had
2000 – Mohabatien 2nd highest Grosser
2001 – K3G 2nd Highest(Though it was the whole industry in the movie)
2002 – Devdas Top Grosser
2003 – KHNH 2nd Highest Grosser
2004 – VZ Top Grosser
2005 – Flop Paheli
2006 – Middling success KANK and Decent Don
2007 – Top Grosser OSO
2008 – Rab Ne 2nd Highest
2009 – N/A
2010 – MNIK Middling Success
Now i am not arguing, and i agree that he has not been that hugely successfull by his own standards, Salman and esp Aamir have definitely tighetened the screws last few years and he is no longer the Bonafide top star etc.
And ofcourse Ra.One failure will hurt him a lot, but as long as i have been following BW Boxoffice, he has remained the most consistent in last many years.
Wont write him off.And i know many are not.
But just saying that dont be surprised if Ra.One gets a humoungous opening.
May 27, 2011 at 9:43 AM
I am not so generous as to call KANK a middling success! Again I just don’t see the ‘standards’ that make DMD a flop and this film a middling success! The same goes for MNIK where the Indian gross was quite poor. And again here’s the problem — the films with the biggest budgets get these sorts of ratings as long as they cross 40 or 50 or 60 when relative to these films those figures are like 20 or 30 for smaller films! You can’t have the highest benchmarks before release (the film will do 80 or 100 crores or whatever) and then suddenly something way lower becomes ok too. And even with very poor trending. KANK collapsed completely in its second week. This wasn’t like Don where the initial was lower than expected but the film was relatively stable.
In that entire decade SRK has a top grosser three times! Hrithik had it three times. Aamir twice and each of those times the gross was the highest ever. So RNBDJ was ‘second’ by quite a margin compared to just Ghajini! Meanwhile Aamir also had two very successful films in ’06. And given that the game this entire past decade has also been about critical success where has SRK been on that front? Aamir has Lagaan and DCH and RDB and TZP. But note how even VZ in 2004 made 45% or more of its gross in week 1 at a time when trending was far better for big films. So barring OSO there is no SRK top grosser that is as impressive as Hrithik’s top grossers let alone Aamir’s after one makes all the adjustments.
Has SRK still been a top star in this decade? of course! But it’s about losing ground to others.You can’t be the topmost star (which has of course always been the SRK narrative) unless you really set the benchmarks. Even OSO more or less just equaled D2 adjusted for inflation. So there isn’t one film he has in this entire period that is absolutely the biggest. Again we see now how even Salman has got a 140 crore grosser or so. SRK still hasn’t cleared 100 crores! So at least for a half decade now SRK has been struggling to match the benchmarks others have set. And by the way he’s not even getting bigger initials than then rest. So as we were discussing yesterday Bachchan even in clear decline was still getting by far the biggest initials between ’88 and ’92. SRK hasn’t done this barring OSO. By the way Mohabbatein had Bachchan, K3G you’ve already pointed out, Devdas had the Madhuri/Ash double, OSO had the 33 star song and so on . VZ and RNBDJ are fair because here SRK was the only selling point pretty much. With Aamir or Hrithik though most of their grossers had only them and nothing else to really recommend the films (barring D2 for Hrithik and Fanaa for Aamir).
In the late 90s SRK despite not having hits all the time was nonetheless the focal point. A few years into this past decade that ground start shifting rather rapidly beneath his feet. If you claim to be the topmost star the numbers should prove it. The benchmarks of the second half of the 90s were generally set by SRK, not so this past decade.
I’m not writing him off by any means. On Ra 1 if it has a good enough gross I will count it as a success because I am always more interested in the audience that shows up. So if the film for example makes 90 crores after a good initial it means the audience has liked the film. Of course on trade terms it should be a flop even at that gross! Of course the trade will forget its standards at that point! On the film getting a humongous initial it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened but I wouldn’t take it for granted either. don’t think the trailers so far have created any great buzz as far as I can tell. But sure it could be the kind of big film everyone shows up for.
But how has he been more consistent than Aamir? Aamir doesn’t have a flop at all this entire past decade! And MP should be considered a middling success if KANK is. The rate of retention is no different!
Just think about what you would have been saying here if SRK had had Aamir’s record! The media would have called him greater than Bachchan!
May 27, 2011 at 9:51 AM
Yeah, i had MNIK flop for the longest time(close to year).
But since its overseas has reached close to 100 cr, its fair to say its Avg success(even if we account for its 100+ cr budget).
Same goes for KANK, though on it KJO did make some decent money.
May 27, 2011 at 10:04 AM
Yes, This decade Aamir has been most consistent with no outright flop, and also his Production house is way ahead of SRK’s in terms of audience faith. Was talking about whole career.
We are expecting SRK to make new bechmarks and if he is 25% less than top grossers, is considered bad for him etc.
So, the extreme of him being King etc is false and also him reaching Rajesh Khanna nadir is also wrong(post 1975 his BO was close to non-existant, though he saw highs also which no one did).
Truth as always, is somewhere in the middle.
May 27, 2011 at 10:19 AM
I will agree, that SRK has never had Top Bollywood grosser of all time(wierdly).
DDLJ was less than HAHK and OSO fell just short of D2.
Now with 3 Idiots doing 203 cr, i dont see any movie just crossing it based on opening atleast in next few years.
May 27, 2011 at 10:34 AM
But it’s not like DDLJ. DDLJ was an extremely iconic film for the 90s. Then SRK once again had KKHH. In between a much lesser grosser like DTPH which was nonetheless important.. These were the dominant films of the age. Aamir had a huge grosser in RH but it didn’t matter because that film didn’t define the age. The films that set the agenda in the 90s were those attached to SRK (in the second half of the decade). This wasn’t true in the past decade when the most iconic films barring early on in the decade haven’t been SRK’s. So it’s not just about the grossers but also the contexts. However SRK was doing in the 90s (and of course he had very many failures when he deviated from his strength genre) there was no one getting ahead of him. It was exactly the opposite in the past decade. It’s not just about 3I being out of reach. So far he’s not even reached Ghajini level! As a matter of fact he hasn’t even cleared 90 crores. Could it happen this year for him? Sure! But let’s see it first. I am not automatically prepared to give him the biggest benchmarks when he has been struggling to meet them for a while. Don’t forget OSO itself will have been 4 years by the time his next releases. That’s a lifetime for an aging star.
On KANK and MNIK sure the overseas numbers were huge and Johar probably made some money but are Indian distributors going to be happy with that argument?! Does the Bombay distributor make money if the film does well in the US? Isn’t it supposedly all about distribution costs?!
May 27, 2011 at 10:42 AM
LOL, Bangalore have 36 in 2 overs, Gayle has a 333 SR! At this rate the match might be lost for Mumbai in 5-6 overs!
May 27, 2011 at 12:28 PM
185 in 20 ovrs with 89 from Gayle.
Saket, take that foot out of your mouth!
May 27, 2011 at 12:41 PM
89 with a 189 SR. It’s going to be very hard for Mumbai.
May 27, 2011 at 1:34 PM
check this one out satyam:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/26/technology/personaltech/26basics.html?ref=technology
May 27, 2011 at 10:52 AM
@jaya – Aishwarya should have been the owner of the title for her performance in Ashutosh Gowariker’s Jodhaa Akbar.
Though I agree priyanka did not deserve a national award for Fashion , Aish was horrible in Jodha Akbar. Both Hritik and Aish never understood the movie and the whole movie was a like a stage play.
Ashu was very lucky to have Aamir for Lagaan and SRK for Swades. Both excelled in their respective parts and did complete justice to the script at hand.
Aish and Abhi jointly have ruined atleast a dozen movie and will continue doing so even after remaining in this industry for so long.
May 27, 2011 at 10:58 AM
SLB has been getting in wrong casting too. Imagine Aamir at the helm in Guzarish and what he could have brought to the character and movie in general. We would have all been discussing the issue the movie brought to the forefront.
Hritik and Aish again made it a complete joke.
But generally I am happy since the paying audience can sense the facade and shoves them back to their right place and I was one of the happiest person with that makhi comment from Salman during those days.
May 27, 2011 at 11:46 AM
Yhea…based on Bhansali’s debacle, Sony is never going to invest in Indian movies again!!
May 27, 2011 at 12:31 PM
Agree
May 27, 2011 at 12:58 PM
Hahahaha
Just back!
Caught a glimpse of the score now….
Gayle again made 89…..
As rightly pointed out above, gayle is having a gr8 time esp after that “flat track bully” debate—lol
Infact bangalore has been single handedl been propped up by one man….
Let’s see what Tendulkar does today….
May 27, 2011 at 12:59 PM
Sachin has 33 with a 165 SR, it’s really all on him to have enough of inning for MUmbai to then have a chance. They’ve lost 2 otherwise.
May 27, 2011 at 1:06 PM
It’s uncanny how gayle continues to vindicate me ESP after the now famous (lol) “flat track bully” debate …
Think saket will recall it…
It’s as of gayle read my comments and got further motivated– talk bout hogging credit…..lol
Ps 10dulkar gone!!!
Its not sachins getting out but the way he was totally fixed by an above average spinner that caught my eye– he looked tired…
May 27, 2011 at 1:20 PM
All over for Mumbai.
May 27, 2011 at 1:20 PM
yeah totally..
May 27, 2011 at 2:01 PM
The way MI has surrendered is a bit surprising and even shameful…lack of application, conviction and leadership—inspite of being the best team on paper!!
Gayle has made me proud—lol
now itll be gayle vs the ice man
May 27, 2011 at 2:05 PM
RCB deserved this win. I hope they will win the finals too. Mallya, celebrate.
May 27, 2011 at 2:30 PM
Not that if this would have made a difference…but..
Why was Pollard sent in at No 7..Chasing a big total he could very well be sent at No 3 and get more time inthe middle..MI did the same mistake in last years finals too.
May 27, 2011 at 2:54 PM
Its not about Pollard..
Its about Mumbai’s decision to bat second always.. after winning the toss.. knowing very well that team batting second has struggled to chase totals.. the pitch gets slow after a while..
May 27, 2011 at 2:57 PM
Gayle is THE player of the tournament.. by a long margin
May 27, 2011 at 4:10 PM
Absolutely. He has been on fire and so consistent. Flat track bully or not these is impressive power hitting.RCB are deserving winners. After a great start in the tournament, Mumbai was floundering. Sachin has some limitations in 20-20 format. He has been pretty consistent and has decent contributions but Gayle has been something else. Nobody has been as consistent and dominant than Gayle this year.There have been some with occasional explosive knocks but Gayle has been so destructive, he leaves them behind.And the Mumbai side has lately been inconsistent.
If Gayle fires again in the finals, it should be an exciting battle.
May 27, 2011 at 4:20 PM
Where is Saket? May be the foot is stuck ?? May needs help getting it out.LOL.
I think he is still right in a way.Gayle obviously has limitations. And while I enjoy watching his power play, it isnt exactly poetry.
But, he has thoroughly dominated the proceedings since he came back. Wonder why he didnt click with KKR.
May 27, 2011 at 5:55 PM
He hasn’t ‘clicked’ this often, like ever. He’s hit a purple patch in this IPL. And has been helped by the pitch/boundaries in Bangalore, his ‘home’ ground.
By default, the way to tackle the West Indians is to corner them with spin. Pollard’s a sitting duck in front of high or even medium quality spin. Gayle, with his technique, should struggle against spin or swing. The latter’s not everyone’s cup of tea though.
May 27, 2011 at 4:45 PM
Thanx Rajen….
Saket—had a real setback after the South African exit from the world cup
And now this Gayle onslaught after the great “flat track bully” debate (above)
hahaha
well, i dont wanna rub it in any more—-
Dont worry Saket, u can reappear safely now—will refrain from reminding about this “victory” (despite temptation) lol
May 27, 2011 at 6:00 PM
Yes, you are so right. Now that you have “won” I’ll go and contemplate suicide! Your jibes kill me man. My ulcer count just increased by one after reading this post.
May 27, 2011 at 4:55 PM
Sachin had a rather ordinary day as a captain in retrospect—-
a) Opting for bowling after winning the toss
b) Letting an inform Gayle seize the intiative —20 odd runs off the first over
c) Opening the bowling from abu instead of Malinga–defensive apporach
d) Bhajji at no3 —thats understandable even in 50 over format, biut in 20-20, u want your best batsmen to hog the max overs/
e) The way sachin got out showed tiredness –the ball actually spun quite a bit unlike my first impressin, but again nothing that sachin in form cannot read…
When something goes wrong, it is easy to pile on these points.
The bottomline is that Gayle has single handedly changed this IPL like a thunderstorm (lke his name)
THIS is what i was saying earlier bout match winners , equation changing players.
These may not work most of the time, but when they do nothing/nobody else matters…
PS—This PROVES Gayle has been improperly handled in KKR, WI
May 27, 2011 at 5:08 PM
Another pertinent point here—
Do guys like Gayle or Sehwag NEED an occasional kick on their back side ie dropping from the team etc to perform to their potential.
There is no way that one can compare the Gayle who waits for the two or three lose balls in an over to hit with the reckless sledgehammer…
There is indeed a place for operant conditioning not only in sports but even institutions and even countries…
PS–There is something to be learnt from the way the disciplined Japanese have coped with the nuclear/earthquake mega calmity with the self-pitying/ “helpless” “passive” approach of a few others who suddenly find themselves in “complex contradictory situations” knowingly!!!!
May 27, 2011 at 5:50 PM
Rajen, the foot’s fixed in my mouth. But I’d still say I’m never going to be a Chris Gayle fan. Had he been playing baseball, I’d definitely change my stance, but this is a different game.
I just caught the first 5 overs of RCB’s batting and I knew from there on that it’d be tough for MI. Not that it’s not a ‘fair’ result. MI almost screwed up a modest chase of 147 against KKR in Mumbai, the ask in this case was pretty much impossible. That too in Chennai where the boundaries are long.
And Rajen, I might be wrong about Gayle, but I stand vindicated on Bhajji
When a 20 year old hits you for sixes with ease, it’s time to think of an alternate career.
Too many things went wrong today for MI, including some strange decisions at the top. Why give the new ball to an inexperienced rookie bowler in such an important game? Why not hit Gayle with spin at both ends? There’s a left arm spinner (Ali Murtaza) warming the benches and there’s also Ray Price, who just had one game in the whole tournament. Why bat second when your side’s batting has been suspect of late? Hindsight’s always 20-20, but some of these decisions look amateurish now.
May 27, 2011 at 6:06 PM
All valid points, Saket.
Sachin hasnt been a great captain ever and today was no exception.
Gayle’s batting is npt pretty but I still find it enjoyable. Bhajji, as I conceded is not consistent and in 20-20 , bowlers can get the stick regardless of their skills.
It is hard fo one team to win consistently in this form of cricket and it is to Dhoni’s credit that he has managed to keep CSK in the reckoning in more than one season.
May 27, 2011 at 6:20 PM
I do think Sachin’s an ‘inspirational’ captain. He has definitely rejuvenated Ambati Rayudu’s career. Helped Saurabh Tiwary last year. But I don’t recall many instances where he has out-thought his opposition.
He has Shaun Pollock as a consultant. Pollock, ironically, was a by-the-books leader himself. Was a great all rounder, but a pretty average strategist. Pollock had to resign from South Africa’s captaincy after the 2003 WC fiasco. So don’t think he’s getting much help from him as far as team strategy is concerned.
Dhoni, on the other hand, has Stephen Fleming as coach. Fleming was a pretty shrewd captain who marshalled his average resources quite well. It seems logical to think that Dhoni might be benefitting from Fleming’s inputs. Though he is undoubtedly a fine captain in his own right. I’ve always thought of his captaincy highly during the IPL, compared to his stint with the national team. Whether it’s due to better players at his disposal, or something else, he operates on a higher level in the IPL.
May 28, 2011 at 8:36 AM
The best players don’t necessarily make the best captains. Sachin is “inspiration” but I think yesterday you HAVE to bowl Malinga first over against Gayle. Just have to. Don’t give someone in his form an inch. In any case, the better side won. MI’s form has been pretty poor for a few matches and RCB and CSK have overall been the most consistent sides (post Gayle’s entry)
May 27, 2011 at 11:04 PM
Chris Gayle resembles one Oriya actor called Manoj Mishra. Especially when he smiles. I dont think there is anyone from Orissa in this forum.
May 28, 2011 at 3:55 AM
I am happy that MI lost the match. I don’t think they deserve to win IPL. From the first day i put my money on CSK and i am sure they will be the champion. I Still feel CSK and KKR is and was the most balanced side in this year.Though KKR is in not in the race but if you see whichever match the lost they lost with fighting.
In this same thread i said in some fields Dhoni is ahead of Sachin. But most of the members belive that sachin has the best cricket brain and Dhoni is media made star. But i will say he is the second worst captain in IPL history. First is Yuvraj. Both look clueless in the field with np plan B. In the 4 year i never heard a commentrator or expert who said some good thing about his captaincy. Here many member has been already cited the ex to open bowling with Abu nachim so i won’t go there. The defineing moment for me of sachin’s poor captaincy was lat year final. Last year pollard was in fine form and he played some explosive innings to hit 30-40 runs. But in the final sachin hold him back till the match was lost.
May 28, 2011 at 3:58 AM
And as we are discussing sachin, I don’t like him because, cricketing reason everybode discussed in detail, i am adding some off the field reason..
1-When he was gifted Ferari he asked for exmption from custom duty while he could pay tax.
2- In Mike Dennis-Ball tampering case, i belive sachin had broken the law. The picture clearly showed he tampered the seam of the ball with his nail. I know as a spinner he can’t get benifeted with ball tampering but rule is rule.
3- In last year IPL there was a match between RCB Vs MI. Tendulkar took a catch of Dravid. Ball was bounced before sachin still he asked for catch out. But dravid didn’t leave his ground and asked to 3rd umpire. That time Sunil gavaskar was in the commentry box and he said dravid played with sachin since 15-16 year so he should know sachin would never ask for wrong decision. If tendulkar said it was a clean catch then he must belive him. But TV replay clearly showed bowl bounced before sachin(Remember how whole india reacted against ponting in sydney test)
4- Bharat Ratna for sachin issue. We all know and accept the fact that sachin make india proud but the way his supporter is building pressure on government to give him bharat ratna is pethatic. Everytime he do something worthwhile with whole country govrnment also congrats him. GOI gave him so many awards. He was the first recipent of Rajiv Gandhi khel ratna award. Now someone can say that it is sachin’s fans who is building pressure and there is no fault of sachin but i say he is fuling the fire. He can ask his fans to calm down. Whenever his time will come the GOI will consider it but in any given opportunity he say yes i want Bharat ratna. While the fact is that in present scinario there is no rule to give Bharat Ratna to sportsperson. May be in future GOI change it. But till then why sachin is noy saying to his fans that don’t build pressure on government. Though i think if GOI changes its rule Dhyanchand should be the first sportsperson to gat bharat ratna.
5- As everyone of you know that sachin is making a house. BMC has given him the permission to certain FSR(Floor space ratio) and that was final as per existin law. But he wanted extra FSR to make GYM in the roof but state government and BMC refused. Then many pepole came in his support (even raj thakrey) they asked to bend the rule for sachin because he is ‘Pride of india’ but authority didn’t make exception. In the whole controversy sachin never said i respect the law and i don’t support my fans demand who want to bend the rule for me.
6- Yesterday he show honesty and asked selector to give hime rest from WI tour because he want to spend some quality time with his family. Though he can take rest from ODI and can play in TEST. But still i will not go to country Vs club debate. But is past he didn’t show this type of honesty. Whenever he wanted rest he just say i am suffring from this or that injury and after sometime without any fitness test he come back into team. I think if you are injured then first you should prove your fitness first and then come back in the team. That is rule. But there are always exception for him and nobody dare to say him follow the rule.
In an over there are six delivery. So these are my legimate(atleast i think so) SIXER against Sachin. But still if someone think there is a no ball. This is my exter delivery.
7- Sachin lied in the monkeygate controversy between symmo-Bhajji.How am i so sure. Because Bhajji told this to a friend of mine. In an off the record chat bhajji said “na to main dhoodh ka dhula hoon, Na hi symonds. Saloon nai poore match main beimani ki. waise bhi desh ki izzat ka mamla tha. aise main agar sachin bhai ne mere support main bola to kya galat kiya.”
May 28, 2011 at 4:11 AM
LOL..
Srk told frnd of mine that he is cosy with kjo and I m the best n kjo is also best..and we create best music
May 28, 2011 at 11:30 AM
Awesome start by Chennai. Murali Vijay making me eat my words. Outscoring Hussey by some measure. And the running between the wickets has been to die for. 121 off 12 overs, so far.
May 28, 2011 at 11:31 AM
5 sixes by Murali Vijay so far!
May 28, 2011 at 11:52 AM
At work today— so missing the match unfortunately.
Is this the only final or a best f three sorts?
Murali vijay scoring
Something- that’s a surprise!!!
May 28, 2011 at 11:55 AM
169/1 FROM 16.
safe to annoint CSK as the winners.
May 28, 2011 at 12:01 PM
it’s 182 in 17.5. They’ll have an enormous score and unless Gayle can outdo even himself it’s not going to happen. And I think unlike Mumbai they were smart to bat first.
May 28, 2011 at 12:01 PM
188/1 after 18. Vijay’s been terrific today!
May 28, 2011 at 12:06 PM
LOL Saket, Vijay read our debate from the other day and has pulled a Gayle today!
May 28, 2011 at 12:12 PM
Don’t mind getting it wrong one bit! It’s great to see Indian talent doing well. 95 in the final; that’s always going to be remembered.
May 28, 2011 at 12:05 PM
Vijay & Dhoni gone off successive balls. 188/3 with 10 balls to go.
May 28, 2011 at 12:13 PM
Terrific final over by Gayle. 2 wickets and 2 dot balls!
May 28, 2011 at 12:14 PM
And the final ball goes for 6. 205/5!
May 28, 2011 at 12:14 PM
RCB will chase this down easily if you bring Gayle factor in.
May 28, 2011 at 12:29 PM
Gayle gone for 0. Beautifulllllllllllllllllll bowling by Ashwin!
May 28, 2011 at 12:30 PM
Yup.Disappointed for sure as I wanted a close match.
May 28, 2011 at 12:34 PM
rajen bangalore are winning this.
May 28, 2011 at 12:51 PM
Feel sorry for Gayle…he was exceptional thro the tournament and deserved to be on the winning side imo. But as someone was saying the other day, this format is too unpredictable!
Btw, don’t you guys think Ashwin needs a permanent spot in the ODI side at the min? He has been way better then Bajji the last year or so..
May 28, 2011 at 12:31 PM
Beat him twice with the off spinner and took the wicket with the carrom ball. Awesome!
May 28, 2011 at 12:34 PM
finally ur mouth can taste better
May 28, 2011 at 12:39 PM
Who knows/ May be likes the taste of his foot.
Atleast, I would assume so given how often it ends up in his mouth! Just kiddin, Saket.
May 28, 2011 at 12:41 PM
It’s better than sitting on the fence. Hurts the bum!
May 28, 2011 at 12:44 PM
LOL!
We have a few of those here. They consider that attitude as being reasonable. They advise against being passionate and straddle both isdes of fence and speak from both sides of their mouth. Am sure there bum is ultra sore.
May 28, 2011 at 12:30 PM
Gayle out.
and m saying now RCBV are winning it. U read it here.
May 28, 2011 at 12:36 PM
Rooney,
Lets have bet.
May 28, 2011 at 12:38 PM
As I write this Agarwal bowled by Ashwin.
May 28, 2011 at 12:43 PM
Don’t think all hope’s lost though. Virat Kohli & De Villiers are class players.
May 28, 2011 at 12:45 PM
205 is a huge total.
Rooney, badi badi baat karke bhaag gaya!
May 28, 2011 at 12:50 PM
LOL cant stay online still working in office
got a big case drafting yaar!! my first company petition!!
anyways m leaving.. i m only following it cric info!!
but now leaving for friendss place for Man united v Barca.
ps- my gut still says bangalore would win!!!! lets c… it aint over till its over.
ps2- i support no one, my team is actually rajasthan.. so may best team win.
May 28, 2011 at 12:41 PM
Gayle gone for a duck.
Satyam, if this were Sachin ie score thro the tournament, take your team to the final and then perish chasing a huge target in the SECOND Innings, I can only imagine what the Sachin baiters would have said….just saying..
Anyways, kudos to Gayle, wonderful exhibition of power hitting, but this is CSK’s to lose from here on…I am traditionalist and hate 20-20 and what its doing to my beloved game, but thats what $$$ do for a sport I guess…meanwhile MSD adds another feather to his cap, he simply cant seem to do any wrong…
May 28, 2011 at 1:16 PM
absolutely! Much as when Sachin scores a century he is blamed if he doesn’t last right to the very end.. meanwhile one should ask why Sehwag couldn’t take Delhi to the final 4 at the very least! So yeah he was a top scorer and so on but so what?! The team didn’t get anywhere! This might sound absurd but these are exactly the questions Sachin has faced all his life!
May 28, 2011 at 12:49 PM
Shastri is wearing a ‘Guru’ shirt- may be to honor Rajesh Khanna who has been discussed at length on this thread!
May 28, 2011 at 1:10 PM
Yesterday, Shastri mentioned that he had held Gayle’s bat in his hand and it weighed 4 pounds.
He’s privy to the kind of information that only Gayle’s girlfriends can corroborate!
May 28, 2011 at 12:58 PM
DE vILLIERS GONE!
May 28, 2011 at 12:59 PM
yep, now it’s really tough!
May 28, 2011 at 1:00 PM
More like impossible.
Need 166 from 13 overs with three wickets gone.
May 28, 2011 at 1:05 PM
4th down. Pomersbach gone. All 4 wickets to spin. What was the MI thinktank smoking?
May 28, 2011 at 1:06 PM
62-4.
May 28, 2011 at 1:16 PM
Poor RCB. They must be tired. No rest period. And CSK had lots of rest comparatively.
May 28, 2011 at 1:18 PM
Excuse. Excuse. Excuse.
May 28, 2011 at 1:20 PM
70/6.. what an anti-climax this has been..
in any case congrats to all the Chennai fans..!
May 28, 2011 at 1:24 PM
“The silver lining for RCB is that they might be able to watch the ManU-Barca game from start to finish. ” LOL
May 28, 2011 at 1:25 PM
Guys – What do you think of the Ashwin vs Bhajji debate. Don’t you think Ashwin deserves to replace Bhajji in the side? I am sure he has done enough to warrant a permanent place. Thoughts?
May 28, 2011 at 1:48 PM
No nail baiting finish. No excitement. No last over histrionics. P.E.
May 28, 2011 at 2:54 PM
In retrospect, CSK is just an average team. No improvement from their position since last IPL
May 28, 2011 at 11:41 PM
That is why they won this time.
The teams which showed improvement lost.
What a logic?
May 29, 2011 at 1:07 AM
No it means other teams didnt improve
or not beyond the standard of improvement on barometer of CSK.
So CSK no improvement was still winning barometer.
May 29, 2011 at 5:05 PM
You obviously didn’t get my joke!
May 28, 2011 at 5:02 PM
hmmmm sad.
@rajen- well my gut proved wrong.
May 28, 2011 at 9:29 PM
I agree that ashwin should be in indian side atleast in ODI. He responded everytime whenever dhoni gave him some task.
May 28, 2011 at 11:46 PM
On thing that made me happy about this win is MI loss. Otherwise we will be hearing Sachin is great. Sachin is the ultimate. Sachin is the Sun , Moon and greater than God etc. Any team win i would have supported.
I half expected that Dhoni will once again say that he won this IPL for Sachin.
May 28, 2011 at 11:49 PM
I am glad Chris Gayle, Ashwin, Vijay, Hyssey etc. got some limelight.
May 29, 2011 at 1:47 AM
But Sachin is great, the ultimate and the Sun, Moon and quite possibly the only unifying God that India has!
May 29, 2011 at 2:05 AM
I would like to hear the names of standard gods like Ram, Ganesh, Allah, Christ etc. At the most I cam accept Gandhi and Nelson Mandela. Sachin is hero like Bachchan. While the Khans are brats.
May 29, 2011 at 5:25 AM
lovable brats.
May 29, 2011 at 2:24 AM
@dj You Seem to be terribly misinformed regarding Sachin…..But its your personal choice not liking sachin…..
But fact is Sachin is by far most loved cricketer of all time,,,,,,Certain Bradman included,,,,and to some who has not done much research on Bradman,,,,He don’t have a humble personality like a sachin…….Infact not liked by his own teammate….Here in indian ….”Team India ” Wanted to win WC 2011 for Sachin not for “India” the Country….
Shewag,Dhoni,Shresshant,Harbhajan,Yuvraj,,,,,all claims sachin as god….do you feel they have beacame insane to call a mortal a god????
No It about Sachin the wonder,,,,More you see his batting more one become mesmerize how he can do it day in and day out…….WC 2 highest Scorer,IPL4 2 highest run Scorer,,,,
Showing some random point and claming that sun has black mark…Will be not enough for ….Please try comming with some more valid point next time….
and you like it or not Sachin will get Bharat Ratna,,,,,Its Destined.
May 29, 2011 at 4:26 AM
How many people know who were last season’s Nobel recipients? How many know about Amartya Sen and his works? Did they give Bharat Ratna to Netaji or Bhagat Singh? I think even Ratan Tata is yet to get that honour. If Sachin gets, the fans of Dhyan chand will start their clamour. Why only cricket gods? Let Tennis gods, Chess gods, Hockey gods also go for it. That is the reason we have Khel Ratna awars and Dadasaheb Phalke awards.
During our World Cup win, many Sachin’s fans were not happy. Because on that particular day someone else Dhoni and Gambhir made the win possible though Sachin slogged for that win to become possible. And Sachin’s fans were more bothered about his centuries than the winning part. This is what is called getting priorities wrong. We want more stars not gods. Legends okay. We make Rajnikant god, Sachin god, Bachchan god. This business of gods makes the fans fanatics and they become intolerant of even any positive criticism of their gods. If any other person takes their place, they behave as though their gods superiority is being questioned and getting negative about them. next they will even buy an aura if possible and construct temples just as they do in the South. Will we ever see temples, even statues for Tom hanks, Steffi Graf or Federer? Or even for Michael Jackson?
Just because I raised some points, i am being labelled as not liking Sachin. I will question even my father , mother , grandparents if I feel that there is some ground for That does not mean that i dont like them. I just cannot follow anyone blindly. God or godmen or godwomen.
Why we tend to go overboard? Whether it is criticism or adulation.
May 29, 2011 at 5:43 AM
Agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 29, 2011 at 10:19 AM
During our World Cup win, many Sachin’s fans were not happy. Because on that particular day someone else Dhoni and Gambhir made the win possible though Sachin slogged for that win to become possible. And Sachin’s fans were more bothered about his centuries than the winning part.
This is an absolutely dishonest statement. And I’m not even the biggest Sachin fan out there. As to answer why we make Gods out of Bachchan, Sachin, Rajnikant… when the West doesn’t do so with their Michael Jacksons and Steffi Grafs. Well, most natural reason there is the cultural difference. We are a nation of rich mythologies and 33 crore Gods and Goddesses. It is a part of our heritage to ‘find’ the ‘God’ in a person’s achievements. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, the non-exclusivity of ‘godliness’ only bodes well for the future of humanity, and everyone should be encouraged to do this. Really!
Secondly, and this is the obvious reason, the achievements of a Bachchan and Sachin, though achievements in their respective fields, transcend their professions. So a Bachchan and his films have a certain sociological link that is tied in to the nation’s identity. Similarly for Sachin. To a nation of billions where a lot has changed over the last two decades, it is almost reassuringly calming to know that Sachin is the one constant. He quite literally bridges the gap between a teenaged cricket fan of today and a cricket fan well in his forties today who had begun becoming a fan of Sachin in his 20s.
Even otherwise, and I am a big Michael Jackson fan, it is difficult to ‘idolize’ someone who battled charges of paedophilia for a large part of his career. And even then, don’t you tell me that MJ didn’t enjoy almost fanatic levels of fandom and worship.
May 29, 2011 at 10:35 AM
I have answered to Rajen which will also answer your points.
When Indians worship, they try to attribute the virtues of infallibility to their icons and they express a level of intolerance with any opposite point of view. An irrational childish behaviour.
May 29, 2011 at 10:47 AM
In a way it is like this. Most of us love our children to distraction and try to defend them under any circumstance. Even if our child is not that angel that we fiercely try to believe. When we try to adopt an idol, we instantly make him our child and everything follows. We get into a defensive mode all red faced and angry. We get protective. The icon becomes our child and god.
May 29, 2011 at 2:39 AM
I will agree Sachin as Captain has not done well….But Sachin as Player is above everyone…
Highest Run Scorer in ODI History
Highest Run Scorer in Test History
Dont play T20 but wait in ipl(2nd highest run scorer behind raina,sachin has played less match).
So , he is as complete as anyone can ever get.
That why Sunil Gavaskar has always a twinkle in his eye when he sees sachin bat,,,,Because ones he stop playing….Cricket will not be Cricket.
Sports his not only about winning or losing ,it more about seeing magician like Lara,Sachin,Federer,Nadal,messi and many more in action and feeling happy for those amazing moments.
May 29, 2011 at 4:52 AM
The BCCI’s run by foolish people.
I agree with vatikala that one of the reasons RCB lost is they over played themeselves.. two matches played in less than 24 hours! and the previous two in close succession? Undoubtedly they were exhaused by the time the final came..
You cant blame these players.. the longest IPL begins 5 days after the World Cup victory! Now post-IPL, they’retouring the Windies followed by England!
Someone needs to hit these idiot BCCI members, who’ve supposedly never held a bat in their hand, that these cricketers arent dogs or machines.. and they need proper rest before they can think of going on another tour!
So I can understand the decision of Tendulkar or Dhoni or Yuvraaj who’ve decided not to go to West Indies. and some of the news channels are reporting that these cricketers are only interested to play club cricket instead of playing for the nation! Its time the Government does something to ensure ethical reporting and sack the BCCI members. These fcukers need to be replaced by prominent n experienced ex-cricketers like Shastri or Gavaskar
May 29, 2011 at 5:29 AM
In a way it is a blessings for some. They will get a chance to showcase their talents or lack of it.
BCCI will kill its golden goose if it goes on like this.
May 29, 2011 at 8:29 AM
Missed both IPL final and the Barcelona victory since was working– still on the go!!!
Congrats to the ice- man dhoni—
Knows how to give n get the best at the crunch….
Ps— the whole indian team needs to be rested … Enjf new players who will be hungry for a chance–
Also time has come that cricket helps out other poorer sports in india rather than monopolisin the whole sponsorships and endorsements !!!
Time to for it back — BCCI and the likes of sachin and dhoni!!!
May 29, 2011 at 9:11 AM
Re:
During our World Cup win, many Sachin’s fans were not happy.
I have seen some idiotic, some blatantly dishonest and some really pathetic comments. This one has to take the cake.
Really? Can you point one reasonable Indain who was not happy that day, let alone Sachin fans? What a ridiculously stupid, imbecilic and dishonest claim?
May 29, 2011 at 10:24 AM
Have you read papers and comments TOI especially?
Have you read about that boy in Mandya who committed suicide due to thais reason?
This happens in other fields also. And also in bollywood and other woods. Many love to see their icon winning the lauresls.
That is why two superstars hesitate to work in the same movie. The movie may be highly successful. That is why some stars try to forget such movies. And their fans do the same.
I love the way you select your adjectives.
May 29, 2011 at 10:43 AM
Sorry for that rather acidic comment.
But, it is frustrating to have to repeatedly avow one’s preference for an Indain victory over a great Sachin performance. This is such an abyssmal tactic employed by Sachin baiters everywhere.
The accusation that Sachin fans root for his century as opposed to an Indian victory. If a DJ or an Admin makes such claims, I wouldnt bat an eye lid as I dont expect anything different. Coming from you, it WAS a surprise. BTW, I did say ‘reasonable’I Indians. There are losers on both sides of the argument who will make ridiculous comments that I wouldnt put much stock in.
There is a small but a significant minority that gets riled by the praise and appreciation for Sachin. I am not sure what drives it and my feeling is ( as with most things in life ), there are several forces at play. For some it is the need to be a contrarian,for some it is jealousy, for sonme it is their own sense of inadequacy, for some it is a reflection of an anti-Mumbai sentiemnt, for some a means to gain attention
and for a rare bird it is an honest but misguided sense that he is getting undeserved acclaim.
May 29, 2011 at 10:49 AM
Dont say sorry. i love your outspokenness.
May 29, 2011 at 10:51 AM
Now alex will start getting ideas.
May 29, 2011 at 1:22 PM
Ditto..
May 29, 2011 at 10:47 AM
BTW, the Bollywood analogy is rather dysfunctional and doesnt make much sense.
May 29, 2011 at 5:56 PM
“Dont say sorry. i love your outspokenness.”—hahah
Rab ne Bana Di Jodi part 2 —starring Rajen and Vatikala….lol
May 30, 2011 at 3:02 AM
@
If a DJ makes such claims, I wouldnt bat an eye lid as I dont expect anything different.
If you go to some news paper’s site or other forums then you can feel that there must be some logic (ok reason) that so many people in so many forums think that sachin and sachin’s fans want records rather then indian victory. Even some expert also think so.
@
For some it is the need to be a contrarian,for some it is jealousy, for some it is their own sense of inadequacy, for some it is a reflection of an anti-Mumbai sentiemnt, for some a means to gain attention.
Hamari Aukaat kya hai bhayya ki hum Sachin se jealousy feel karain. Mumbai main rehta hoon so there is nothing like anti- mumbai sentiment.
In the same standard i can say your haterd to SRK i s based on above mention reason+ you are anti muslim. How we prove these sweeping aligation ?