Bollywood Polemics – A debate with Anurag Kashyap 2

the earlier thread already has 220 comments! I think a new thread might better serve this purpose! No comments should be added to this thread just yet. These will be deleted. In the meantime I have kept the older thread open. I am reproducing the body of the older post here..

First Response

Is it nepotism only when established actors do it or does hyperbolically praising one’s buddies at every turn also count as such? Proclaiming a film like Rockstar more or less a work of genius or suggesting Shanghai is so great and the director so self-evidently India’s best that there cannot even be a debate on this! I shall of course remember to not bring up Adoor Gopalakrishnan in this discussion forget lesser mortals like Bala and so on.

Is it about being gutsy and “ballsiest” only when one wants to support the filmmakers to praise the films in question beyond all reason and not do so when it’s the opposite or one doesn’t care for the actors associated with the latter?

I wouldn’t bring up all of this if it were a stray comment here and there but it’s a consistent pattern. And it’s incredibly disappointing that a filmmaker of your gifts has decided to more or less become Bollywood’s ‘rebel-in-chief’ and make these pronouncements that increasingly take you into the realms of non-seriousness than provoke any sort of critical discussion which is otherwise your stated claim. I have actually liked most of your films if not all. I have great admiration for your skills. But there is a trap that one can very easily fall into. which is that one starts depending on the very ‘big bad Bollywood’ that one pretends to denounce. In other words the mediocrity of the system such as it might be (and I’d agree with very much on this score) is precisely what you need to proclaim yourself the misunderstood and underappreciated genius of the system along with your buddies. In other words one can’t have it both ways. If the standards are absymally low in Bollywood and in every sense according to you isn’t it a sleight of hand to then market your works or those others you celebrate as the very best? What does this even mean?! In Italy the old joke was that you either had Fellini or Antonioni or Rosselini and so on or you had junk cinema. This wasn’t very far from the truth. But what if Fellini had said that he was way better than everything else in his industry?!

So it’s a trap because one can get too comfortable in one’s role as provocateur-in-chief for one’s industry. And let’s be honest — there is a market for this in contemporary Bollywood. The system allows you to play this game. No one is very bothered by your statements! I wish they were but they’re not. Forget what Bollywood is doing. Forget this rebellion. This is such a boring enterprise anyway. The industry is so tough for you and what not. Sure it is! There are such horror stories all over the world in every industry and not one is worse than Hollywood which in the words of a writer whose name escapes me is more certain death to an artist than anything else imaginable.

But also there are consequences to this sort of unthinking (one hopes it isn’t genuinely felt) commentary. One becomes a symptom of the system in the very same ways that one things others are. How? If there is no intelligent commentary anywhere in the industry, if the film media is utterly bankrupt.. and so on, isn’t there far greater responsibility on someone like you to inform and educate? Or is taking potshots and issuing such totalitarian statements where all debate is foreclosed the the limit of your ambitions?

I’d also say this. It is very easy to criticize a commercial industry and celebrate the marginal. I am all for this but the latter almost always depends on the former. There cannot be only a marginal industry in any country which has to resources to foster a major commercial industry. By the same token rebellion or provocative gestures don’t mean as much when a Kashyap indulges in them as when a Santoshi does. Why? Because the audience keeps you in a box and they’re quite happy to get all your rebellion as long as they can keep you ghettoized. The same possibility does not exist with Santoshi. Do you know that every existing official VCD/DVD of Khakee that I am aware of whether in India or outside has two crucial and potent political scenes censored? Admittedly smaller films are sometimes harassed as with your Paanch but the larger commercial film always invites greater attention because it’s the truer mass vehicle and people are afraid of the messages thus sent out. In any case the rebellion you think you’re indulging in has already been accounted for by your system. Which is why you should actually make a somewhat bigger film and push the envelope that way.

I am hardly denigrating your brand of cinema or the useful gestures you often provide this way but it seems to me that one must get out of this infantile desire to simply shock one’s bourgeois audience by using sexual frankness and cuss words and so on. Again a similar structure holds. One depends on the very bourgeois framework that one otherwise mocks to enable one’s rebellion! And yes you’d say that you’re simply producing naturalistic detail. That’s true but the real impulse is to shock. Again let’s be honest! This might be a valuable gesture on its own but shouldn’t one advance beyond this stage? Specially if you’ve made a number of films. Again I like most of them, maybe all of them, but why not show greater ambition? Why remain boxed in?

And here I will leave you with a final observation which also connects with one of my own favored topics of discussion — the career of Abhishek Bachchan. Abhishek is really the model for what you thinks ‘stars’ should do but also the example that greatly unnerves you because he of course represents total privilege (not that the others don’t but obviously he has the biggest brandname). And in your framework of ‘rebellion’ one cannot be both at the same time. You finds it impossible to lionize Abhishek (I’ve seen some fairly absurd statements from you in the media on this score) because you also sees him as representing everything you dislike. But that’s like not wanting to praise Tolstoy’s efforts because he was a Count! Unfortunately there is no straight ‘Marxist’ line to be drawn between one’s talents, one’s motivations and one’s class. And the best Marxists all knew this. Including Marx. Which is why there are all these great literary allusions and references that constantly pepper Capital. Or you have someone like Walter Benjamin writing a seminal essay on Proust. One can have an opinion about class and so on but one has to live with the reality that great artistic impulses and goals often emerge from great privilege. Here your mentor RGV is much wiser than you or at least less burdened with this truth. Much as evidently there are very many important talents, North and South, who see a fine actor in him but you find it impossible to do the same even as you celebrate some other stars with pedigree and who have done nothing at all to justify such praise. Even if you genuinely disagreed with my (and Rathnam’s and Mehra’s and RGV’s……..) estimation of Abhishek’s talents you would at the very least have to appreciate his willingness to take these risks and suffer the consequences when he absolutely didn’t need to and could have stuck to an obvious formula once he had some hits. It is precisely because he is at the ‘heart of the system’ in so many ways that his rebellion means so much more. His gestures genuinely destabilize the system. This is what a great of the hostility about him in the media and even within the audience is about. He’s a ‘traitor to the system’ in various ways. I actually give you some credit here. I think you at least dimly intuit all of this. But this is as I said earlier contrary to your romance of how things should be. Again it is not about social justice and fairness when it comes to art. Nor should it be.

I am not suddenly saying all of this. I have made all of these points at much greater length elsewhere. But I finally decided to write to you because I think you can understand very clearly everything I’m saying. I do believe you have the honesty to appreciate it even where you might disagree with any and all of it. But your entire posture within your system is a deeply problematic one, a totally counter-productive one even with respect to your own goals, and ultimately a dishonest one as well. I can give you greater credit than your statements would lead me to believe but nonetheless you’re not saying those other things.

The sadness regarding ‘Bollywood’ isn’t that Housefull is loved by people and that Delhi 6 isn’t. It’s really about the lack of a genuine film culture that can inform, enlighten and really set the terms of the debate. This is the key difference between say the US and India. Not that average audiences are that much more into enlightened cinema (here too you are simply wrong when you offer misleading examples about filmmakers here.. you should read Soderbergh’s interviews on Che and then furthermore follow the release schedule of both the regular and especially the roadshow version.. similar examples could be offered from Europe.. on Carlos for example) but that there is a sane critical culture that evaluates things independently of everything else. You could have been at the forefront trying to bring about such a change in Hindi circles. You still can. I actually think you would do very well with Abhishek in a film and vice versa. But do something ambitious. Not No Smoking and stuff like that. It needn’t be big. But something important, something truly meaningful and ambitious.

By the way liked Girl with Yellow Boots a lot. But again since Cannes and the festival circuit is your preferred model of comparison my response is ‘interesting film but what’s the big deal?’ Not insulting you at all but you see the problem?

Second Response

First off thanks for the responses. I know it’s hard to put up long responses on twitter. I’m quite sick that way! But some of your notes nonetheless allow me to clarify some things..

I actually don’t disbelieve you when you say that you’re not supporting DB just because he’s a friend. I have no problem with the claim that he’s a fine talent, that he’s a great craftsman. Even the idea that you consider him the best is not something I would necessarily argue with even if I disagreed with. But the whole question is one of contexts. The ancient Greeks had a very wise dichotomy where the opposite of the ‘true’ wasn’t the ‘lie’ but the ‘false’. And the reason some of their thinkers insisted on this distinction was that sometimes the ‘truth’ can be used like the ‘lie’. Which is to say one can be correct in a legalistic sense and still create a very deceptive sense of the matter. And so the ‘false’ covers both the ‘lie’ but also a ‘truth’ than can be used to deceive (consciously or not one might add today).

And so back again to DB. But let me offer some other examples here. You praised Love Aaj Kal to the skies. Here I was bewildered not because I felt you were being hyperbolic but because I didn’t see what there was at all to praise here. Or by these liberal standards very much coming out of Bollywood could be praised. I remember being extremely disappointed by Imtiaz Ali here. I felt he had Joharized himself. Or performed a kind of upgrade on that kind of cinema. There is absolutely nothing to get excited about here as far as I can tell. But let’s move onto Rockstar. Here’s a film that I liked even though I felt it was uneven and had some problems. I actually liked it more than I could defend it at certain levels. But that’s fine. I’m not after perfection. The interesting that is flawed is a lot better than the mediocre that is perfect! I wrote two pieces on the film and one where I expressed some dismay at the audience (my day job most of the time!) for not supporting this film more (it did well in some respects but not well enough). The film in short was far superior to LAK in my view and I hope Imtiaz Ali remains this sort of filmmaker going forward or doesn’t compromise more than this as a commercial director. LAK is to my mind a pointless film. If Imtiaz Ali is going to do this we might as well stick with Johar and the like. But even with Rockstar I don’t see why you made it your mission in life to respond to so many journalists or challenge them on their objections and even take the extraordinary step of inviting them to a session of rebuttals and what not. All this ‘theater’ for what? Rockstar?! A film that was already receiving good reviews on the whole. Did this film need such support from you? And in any case there was something a bit disturbing in your insistence that no one could ‘dislike’ Rockstar and if they had they hadn’t understood Imtiaz Ali’s great art!

Another example: you showed up at an NDTV interview once where the subject of discussion was Luck By Chance. Not a bad debut at all, some interesting things here but nothing to go crazy over either. Still for a first film one could excuse some of the enthusiasm (though I found Zoya Akhtar’s followup frighteningly mediocre). On that show there was this whole ‘ra ra..’ tone about the film as if some revolutionary film had arrived and Hrithik was being discussed as if he was a thespian of some sort, you were sort of chiming in at points. I didn’t get the sense you were agreeing with everything but you weren’t registering any disagreement either. Why not have the guts to either say something to the contrary or not show up on the show at all if one thinks that the format doesn’t enable one to do this?

Note how I am actually giving you much more credit that your own statements and interventions (as in the examples I’ve laid out). In other words I think you know better than your statements would have one believe if taken at face value. I have no evidence for this. It’s just an educated guess. But the problems begin here. Because if you have the whole rebel’s demeanor both on and off screen you also have greater responsibility. Here I am rather disappointed at your copout response about not wanting to take on the responsibility of an intellectual or an academic or what have you. I have not done this. You have yourself taken on this role with many of your statements. What does it mean to say that “we” (in Bollywood) are far behind those around the world? Of course this is not literally true. Hollywood is possibly a more bankrupt industry than Bollywood relative to its resources and relative to its audiences and so on. One could say the same for other European industries. we only see the best French or German films or whatever. We don’t watch the average Thai film! If we could select the ten best films just from Bollywood every year, irrespective of scale of production, and leaving aside even what’s being made in the rest of the country (the Tamil ‘new wave’, the rennaissance in Marathi cinema and so on) I think we could come up with a fine list. For example I could have Anurag Kashyap, Dibakar Bannerjee, Rohan Sippy, Rakeysh Mehra, some other names, a fantastic film like Udaan and some other like it.. etc etc and soon there would be a list strong enough to stand its ground in most film festival circuits. But in any case when you approach it in this fashion what are you really saying? That there is a level of ‘artistic’ cinema that Bollywood does not know about or does not celebrate even if is aware of it. But how can this ‘artistic’ cinema really be celebrated? Let’s say I asked you to write a piece on Love Sex and Dhokha. Would it be possible for you to do justice to DB’s achievement here without talking about his technical registers and so on? Couldn’t this then be dismissed as an ‘academic’ or ‘intellectual’ discussion? When you say that no one picked up on the Heer Ranjha reference in Rockstar (I personally think it’s more Orpheus than this but that’s another matter) aren’t you again talking about something ‘intellectual’ or ‘academic’. I frequently have people who tell me that I read too deeply into commercial films or take them too seriously. So the ‘intellectualism’ can be in the eye of the beholder. But leaving this aside how is it possible to really esteem a true artistic work without getting into some of this stuff? If I’m talking about Rathnam’s Raavan I could discuss his remarkable montage at the film’s beginning or how it reveals his designs in the film, I could on the other hand talk about his anti-Ramayana here (a tradition which exists in India, even more strongly in the South with the Kamban Ramayana and so on), I could get into how he really introduces the Maoist discourse here and really takes us to the ‘other’ side as it were, on and on.. In each instance the discussion could be called ‘intellectual’ and ‘academic’. Regrettably there’s no way to discuss Rathnam in terms that would otherwise be appropriate for Karan Johar and Sajid Khan! You know this far more than I do. You know the craft, the ins and outs of cinema better than I could ever hope to. How is your entire project to be defined if one can only do so in pedestrian ways? Do I just say Girl with Yellow boots or Gulal is a ‘good’ film and move on?! Surely that’s not what your own critique of Bollywood or your own statement on cinema amounts to?! It is exactly the opposite. You have yourself conferred this role on yourself not just with your works but even moreso with your polemics. In other words you can ask for credit upto a point and the moment you’re questioned more on it introduce this escape hatch and go ‘hey I never asked for this responsibility’!

Your lionizing of LAK or Rockstar or DB is problematic precisely given the terms of your own debate. In one instance you are frankly, and with all due respect to Imtiaz Ali with LAK, celebrating the utterly mediocre, in the other you are celebrating DB as if he were Ray! But there’s a common thread to both. I wouldn’t have a problem if you celebrated some other mediocre films the same way or if you celebrated some other directors as much as DB. But the friendship thread runs, rather coincidentally, through all your statements. why? What couldn’t you find it in you to get hyperbolic about some other films as well? And this is where that greek example comes in. It is not that I do not believe you (though many times I don’t in other instances!) on DB. But the contexts matter. If you had also celebrated Rathnam or Mehra or Rohan Sippy and so on (take your pick) I wouldn’t have a problem. But one can present a false picture by omission. What’s the need for such selection? Doesn’t this give people a false impression? Whatever your reasons might be for liking one director and not another, one film and not another, which is of course your will and wish and absolute right, don’t your polemics demand a more coherent set of choices? Is it really possibly that you can admire both the craftsmanship of DB or Imitaz Ali or at least like the works of each but find nothing of value or interest in Delhi 6 or Dum maaro Dum? Do those directors, even if they weren’t friends of yours, really need your support or attention, when they are already being celebrated by important cross-sections of the media? Shouldn’t you be sticking up more for films like Delhi 6 or Raavan, precisely those the media for all their usual ideological and partisan reasons gets hysterical about? Isn’t this precisely where the guts are required? Even if you don’t like the films you know very well there’s a lot of value in them. Shouldn’t you be more vocal about this? DB is already being praised in those very quarters! He doesn’t need, to use a sports term, the ‘assist’! Let alone someone like Imtiaz Ali!

And here irrespective of my own interest in or estimation of Abhishek there should be a larger goal here that precisely you should be on board with. First of all if he’s so extraordinarily privileged why is he so mercilessly attacked and ridiculed in various ways when his peers don’t live with half that burden. It’s not just about relative success or failure. It’s about something more. If you’re not going to support the guy who does Raavan and Delhi 6 and Gowariker and Rohan Sippy and Balki and RGV when he could easily just do BnB 1,2,3.. or Dus 1,2,3 or whatever the genres that work are who can you support? Isn’t he precisely the one who comes from privilege and who could make easier choices, specially as someone who failed so much earlier on, isn’t he exactly the ‘intruder’ at the heart of the system who should be ceebrated for his overall project even if one doesn’t take to him as an actor? If he’s not even going to get the critics or leading lights of alternative cinema like yourself to support his project more (in a general sense) he might as well do stuff with Rohit Shetty all the time! You as his peer in a larger sense, I as part of the audience, both of us have a larger responsibility, Specially so if we’re going to rant and rail against the system as both you and I do in different capacities, you with infinitely greater degree of influence. But no, you were part of a show celebrating Hrithik for LBC! It’s not about one or the other actor, one or the other filmmaker, you might privilege DB, I might privilege someone else but it’s about the larger framing of the debate. And you have yourself sought this role. You can walk away from the responsibility now. Even if you could what did you expect? That you’d just criticize on the sidelines whoever you wished or support whoever you liked while someone else would have to do the heavy lift that required assuming greater responsibility?!

Believe me I’m not judging you despite everything I’ve said. I find that sort of thing very boring. I am engaging here precisely because I have enough respect for what you do and what you say. But one can get oneself into a rather comfortable position without realizing it. Much as one can always believe things are easier for others or that others ought to be more responsible and so on. What about one’s own statements? And one just cannot play both sides of the coin. So on the one hand it’s all about interesting films and going against the grain and what not. The moment one critiques the films the response then is ‘hey I’m not trying to be Kurosawa here’! So what does this amount to ‘allow me to only say and do and test myself to the extent I am comfortable with all of this’! ‘Don’t ask for more otherwise I’ll say that’s not my role’! But the moment one says and does things there’s a certain logic one sets up. One can’t just enter and exit the discussion on one’s schedule. You can play a much more useful role, a much more subversive role. One can however keep playing to one’s romance of rebellion without realizing that the system is co-opting one at every turn. The equation keeps changing. It takes more than flame-throwing to change things. And if one doesn’t want that change one shouldn’t complain about things either.

I assure you I indulge in all of this criticism with the greatest respect. No insult is intended here. But I prefer honest, frank discussion rather than dishonest, polite ones. I know you do too which is why I got into this. These are things I’ve sensed for a long time. Didn’t suddenly come to this realization!

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398 Responses to “Bollywood Polemics – A debate with Anurag Kashyap 2”

  1. Hum toh yahan Kah kar lenge, oops I mean likhenge…LOL!!

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    • Lol.. 😀

      He deleted my comment here, let me see now what happens to your comment 😛 ???

      satyam deleted my comment on other thread also which was against Big B 😀

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      • Haven’t deleted any comment on this thread. Yours might have entered spam or something. I don’t know. On the other thread as I said yesterday I deleted many comments because it got messed up. I then put many of them back in one response. Might have missed yours.

        In any case everyone should stick with the other thread. If there are another 200 comments here I can’t keep creating new posts. LOL, this has become like Waiting for Godot. The guy never arrives! Ha! Which is not something that bothers me greatly but these threads keep building up. But I also say this because if he’s not able to make it at all I can just shut down this thread. A second one wouldn’t be needed then.

        On not deleting Rocky’s comment have to make an exception for him. Otherwise he’d think I was a commie!

        Addendum: just saw your comment had entered trash. I restored it. But anyway let’s keep it to the other thread.

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        • Exception under name of anything( nepotism) 😛

          btw, my comment was visible for more than hour( i dont think it went into spam)…

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          • I just saw it in trash after you mentioned. I was asleep before that!

            On nepotism I never campaigned against it!

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          • Same comment..two different thread!

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          • Thanks Munna, I see it now.. alright so the comment here goes back into the trash can!

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          • Yes, same comment different threads as I read aftr commenting that all comments here will be deleted so posted same on other thread 🙂

            So I said let me see what happens to rocky’s comment 🙂

            Hope its clear now.. One can see the timestamp of both comments.

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          • And I am saying there’s a Rocky exception! Not because of nepotism but politics! We are old sparring buddies and I need him to be around as well to defend both sides of Indian civilization!

            More seriously there are often these attempts to trip me up. One either believes that I am being fair or not. But as I’ve said before there are judgment calls. I’ve never said this was a Nazi system with no exceptions under any circumstances! Sometimes I reconsider earlier decisions. But in any case there is no politics involved. Still one can choose not to believe me on this and think I am favoring friends and so on. I did not see that initial comment at all. But in any case I am not likely to respond to these attempts to trip me up.

            What happens is (and I am not speaking about you necessarily) that often when people bring accusations of bias and so forth they forget to include their own conduct and statements in the larger equation! Since everyone is not the same the contexts are not the same.

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          • omrocky786 Says:

            Mua Comment Na hua Anurag Kashyap ka Black Friday ho gaya..kabhee approved hai toh kabhee banned hai …..LOL
            Asidei Satyam ab please uss comment ko wapas restore mat karna….

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          • @satyam

            I have no problem if you cloth it as Politics or judgmental calls( too open word) or contextual or favouring friends as long as you admit it. You admitted it that’s alright with me.

            I now know some are more than equal here

            Re : I did not see that initial comment at all. But in any case I am not likely to respond to these attempts to trip me up.

            My initial comment to rocky’s comment was fair one when I saw my comment deleted and don’t know about “trip me up”

            Sorry I don’t indulge in those things

            Re : What happens is (and I am not speaking about you necessarily) that often when people bring accusations of bias and so forth they forget to include their own conduct and statements in the larger equation! Since everyone is not the same the contexts are not the same.

            I want to know about my conduct and statements which made you say that…

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          • Actually I am not admitting anything other than the obvious. That there is no position of neutrality whether one accepts it or not. One always decides within given contexts. The idea that some are more equal than others is simply false.

            On Rocky that was more of a joke than anything. Your response was fair because you did not see your comment and you saw his. However I also kept telling you I hadn’t seen it or deleted it but you mentioned it more than once. I would have accepted it had I done it.

            Right now there’s a Jiggy comment in that thread too. I think you know the kinds of comments he’s made in the past! Why? Because contexts have changed since this morning. Tomorrow these will change again. If Kashyap for example isn’t showing up the thread can eventually be used normally.

            On the final thing I’m not saying your conduct/statements or anyone else’s are objectionable or anything. Just that when people accuse me of bias or favoring certain actors and so on they forget to consider their own biases that make them object in the first place! So for example you have SRK fans who think one is talking too much about Bachchan. They’re not interested in fairness, they just want the conversation to be about SRK!

            Now in your case you keep talking about friends. But here’s the problem. The list of my friends keeps increasing (I should be so lucky!). So anyone whose comment I let stand and if you (or someone else ) don’t agree with that call the charge is ‘he’s a friend’. But the ‘friendship’ has never been factually established! How does anyone know how friendly or not I am with various people?! I might be joking a lot with people I am otherwise not ‘friends’ with or not even known for very long. These are just assumptions.

            Also when someone’s a friend that doesn’t mean I am giving him or her more latitude because of this but because I might be clearer about contexts and motivation. But I know I’ve done the same with people I hardly know. So it’s all about trust at the end. If you think this is a place where me and my buddies hang out and take down those who don’t like Bachchan that’s not true. It might be a desirable activity (!) but it’s not true.

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          • @satyam

            Fair enough and agree to most of the points you said in your last reply..

            I believed you and and would have no qualms if you has deleted my comment as you have said it in post already..

            And do appreciate your patience and effort to reply and never losing cool, as I has said somewhere that “Rest is upto your wisdom” 😀

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          • I deleted your comment after seeing it twice and thought you put it in this thread by mistake.

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        • THANKS 🙂

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  2. omrocky786 Says:

    Well said Satyam ..Iss baar Khuda Satya key saath hai…..LOL
    Aside- arrey itney AK ref. daal diye, ab toh aan milo AK…….

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  3. Hum intezaar karenge tera qayamat tak….Khuda Kare ki qayamat ho aur anurag aaayeee….

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  4. Should say this here. No one should wait in suspense about when Kashyap’s going to visit!

    The fact is I initiated an exchange with him on twitter, everyone knows the rest. I started a thread because he requested it. Now he obviously is busy with lots of other stuff too so I don’t expect him to drop everything and come here irrespective of what he said initially or even later. It could also be that he’s not as up for a debate now as he might have been earlier or that he’s not as free at the moment as he might have thought. Whatever the reason it’s not a big deal.

    The debates go on! With or without Kashyap! Again giving him the benefit of the doubt but not really bothered either way about motivations.

    As for this second thread even if he doesn’t show up I will eventually close the other thread where the comments are building up and shift things here for anyone who’s still interested in the topic.

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  5. Anurag Kashyap Says:

    This is going to take time.. i am not as articulate as you are but i am spontaneous.. so i will say one thing at a time.

    You accuse me of Nepotism because you say DB is a friend and my wife is an actor in the film. That to me is redundant because you haven’t yet seen the film. I have but few friends, friends i have grown up with or have been with for long, who know me inside out. Imtiaz you can call a friend. DB is a filmmaker i greatly admire and i went seeking his friendship after i saw OLLO. I have done that all my life, Auithors, Filmmakers, People i admire, i seek them out , locally or anywhere in the world, i do that in order to know them, in order to satiate my curiosity about them, to know how they think. I have done that with Fatih Akin, Danny Boyle, Winterbottom,Brillante Mendonza, Ang Lee,Tarantino,Arrenofsky, everyone. Still chasing a few. I view each their films individually. Unlike many that i read here, i have no fixed definitions of cinema. Through cinema i try to fugure out the the individual, his perfections and imperfections and believe me there are more imperfections there but a common desire and passion , to create. They dont make films keeping in mind whats expected of them but what they are seeking from it, which no one knows except they themselves. So i do not sit forming opinions on people that i have been inspired by once but try to read them and wait and watch the journey they take and how it unfolds. And the ones i have no interest in, the deadwoods like Abhishek, people dead within like him, i prefer to not talk about them until and unless they are unnecessarily in the way.
    Now coming to Shanghai, now that the press screenings have happened and manymore and rest of the community and critics echo my feelings, so i say that lets leave Shanghai alone, until after you have seen it and we will take up from there.

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    • Ok the games begin!

      Welcome.

      ps- i hope this is not some joke or fake person by other member!

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    • ” They dont make films keeping in mind whats expected of them but what they are seeking from it, which no one knows except they themselves. ”

      I guess that’s what true artist do, i am not a filmmaker, but a lawyer, and feel that when I make a petition. I can understand and feel quite at home reading that statement.

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    • How do we know Mr AK you are real and not some imposter ??

      Ps : I eagerly wait ur movies but you sometimes take yourself too seriously

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    • And the ones i have no interest in, the deadwoods like Abhishek, people dead within like him, i prefer to not talk about them

      Could you possibly expand on this a little?

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    • “deadwoods like Abhishek, people dead within like him..”
      On what basis would you say that Anuraag? I am really curious. You don’t see him as a commerical cinema actor trying his best to do some “hatt Kay” stuff with movies like D6, Ravaan, DMD?
      If you haven’t seen works of Adoor, how about Ratnam? He had made movies in Hindi.

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    • “It does not matter how intelligent, potentially great, articulate or creative you are or can be, but if you dont have the courage to step out of your comfortzone and do what you seek from others then you are as redundant as a dead rat”

      Anurag, by calling Abhishek “deadwood…dead within” aren’t you contradicting yourself with the above statement???!!!

      Like

    • I would have thought everything you’re saying here has already been pre-addressed in those two long responses of mine! I actually don’t focus on the whole nepotism issue that much for reasons I have discussed elsewhere but I brought it up here because it very much is a ‘concern’ of yours and one you’ve voiced before. So whether you’ve sought other filmmakers or not is not exactly germane here. Once they do become ‘friends’ you are more than happy to advance those films. and those films ONLY! Which is the crux of the point. And it’s not just DB. It’s not even Imtiaz Ali against whom I have nothing? How is it possible for Anurag Kashyap to think that highly of LAK? This is what I’m interested in! How is it possible for Anurag Kashyap to be so stirred by Rockstar (a film which I liked as I’ve already said) that he made it into a revolutionary cause almost? I am not questioning your friendships or how you arrived at them. I am not questioning your film choices either. I am wondering why only certain examples are privileged in your public statements. Let’s leave aside Boyle and the like. That’s ‘neutral’ territory for Bollywood. There are no partisan stakes involved with these names.

      And my objections don’t depend on what kind of film Shanghai is at all! Again all of this should have been obvious in the responses. Let me put it this way — if I set myself up as a purveyor of good (let’s understand this in a somewhat more auteurist sense at the moment) cinema and then I only put forward the name of Ritwik Ghatak. I never mentioned Ray and I never mentioned Adoor or whoever it is who belongs to such august company. What would you think? That I probably don’t like the others. But if I was putting forth a critical opinion (DB is the ‘best’ filmmaker around.. surely such a statement is not just about personal preference?) could I say the very same thing? So you just rattled off a list of filmmakers that strongly affected you and that’s fine but this is not the same as a critical opinion. I might love Kurosawa more than Bergman, I might like Hrishikesh Mukherjee more than Raj Kapoor but I don’t necessarily say that in each case the first name is a better filmmaker than the second! Also what if after mentioning Ghatak I then added Prakash mehra?! So I don’t talk about Ray or whoever, I just mention Ghatak and then I mention Prakash Mehra. This is basically what celebrating LAK on the one hand and DB on the other amounts to! And in each case you aren’t saying you love these films. you’re saying these are great films that no one’s appreciating!

      So this isn’t a ‘preference’ debate for me. It’s about an industry’s leading ‘auteurist’ voice who has also taken up polemical cudgels at many points only privileging certain films and not others. You don’t have to like some of the others to esteem them. That’s my point and I think someone like yourself better serves whatever dreams or visions you might have for a healthy Bollywood by fostering commentary on the widest set of meaningful films and not just restricting the list to those you’ve very friendly with.

      “And the ones i have no interest in, the deadwoods like Abhishek, people dead within like him, i prefer to not talk about them until and unless they are unnecessarily in the way.”

      For someone who cast John Abraham as a lead that is rich indeed!

      Like

      • For someone who cast John Abraham as a lead that is rich indeed!

        In the interest of fairness, AK wrote an extensive blog post about his choice of John Abraham as the lead in No Smoking where he mentioned clearly that he’s an “average” actor. To John Abraham’s credit (according to the blog post), he was willing to take on a script that made zero commercial sense.

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        • omrocky786 Says:

          I remember he got really pissed when Khalida made fun of John…
          just saying….

          Like

          • And that was a great retort! Obviously called out Khalida for the douche he was…

            But, I must mention, AK did embrace the douche later. I was pretty disappointed to see that happen…

            Like

          • omrocky786 Says:

            agree that was great retort and Khalida deserved it , but does not change the fact that John is a non actor and AK defended him..

            Like

        • Anurag Kashyap Says:

          Yes i did cast him.. For i was desperate to get a film made.. i did not have a single release and he was the only one who believed in me.. i always knew his acting potential and i openly said it.. he took a pay cut to make that film..
          AB jr does not take risks when he charges 6 crores. a lot of films he did because he was the last choice of a director who was considered v good but was turned down by everyone. and he has single handedly ruined the films.. any other actor in his place could have elevated those films from mediocrity..you see from outside, i know the inside story of those films.. have you seen any of those directors repeating AB jr barring those who do not understand Hindi.

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          • Alex adams Says:

            An honest comment there…

            Like

          • a lot of films he did because he was the last choice of a director who was considered v good but was turned down by everyone.

            Makes sense to me!

            Like

          • omrocky786 Says:

            Is tha why you have not repeated John, Mani even without not knowing Hindi understands Actors/cinema etc. much more than 75% of Hindi knowing directors…..

            Like

          • @saket, AK

            It does

            Like

          • omrocky786 Says:

            Abhishek ( and YRF) probably screwd up JBJ in your mind (I loved JBJ) and he becomes a deadwood…..

            Like

          • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

            I was just going over Jr’s filmography I dont think any film in that list proves that he could have been a second choice of the director. The only one that could be a possiblity is Khelen hum..jjs. His relations with the directors he has worked with (the prestiged directors that you are speaking of) has always been great, he was considered for RDB, Lagaan, and a few others. So can he be the second choice for D6 or KHJJS. yes he may have been a 2nd choice in Yuva, But that film changed the perception of audience and the director went on to work on 2 more films with him. I really dont see a connection here with your claim. Sorry dont buy this one either sir.

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          • This is a staggeringly dishonest statement on Abhishek in every single sense imaginable and you know I’m right on this! It’s wrong on all possible factual grounds. And on the rest it’s hard to even question you seriously on this. You have talked about ‘courage’. You need the courage of truth here! Again if you said he’s the worst actor around I’d merely disagree. The problem is that you’re making these extraordinary claims that you know are untrue. Your claim is a) no one wanted him b) even if they wanted him he didn’t do the films c) even if he did them he ruined them d) they’re mediocre films anyone so who cares who asked who? e) in one case the director doesn’t know Hindi. Note how the logic here is mutually exclusive. What unites all these explanations is really just the name of Abhishek! Your own logic fails you!

            But I’ll stress again. It’s not me but you who know better on this. Of course I’ve always felt that Abhishek is an extraordinary blind spot for you. For reasons that are far more profound than you’d care to admit! So you might have convinced yourself of some of these ‘facts’ despite knowing enough to the contrary. That’s entirely possible.

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          • “have you seen any of those directors repeating AB jr barring those who do not understand Hindi.”

            Hindi Speaking who already have repeated him : 1. Rohan Sippy, 2. Shaad Ali, 3. J. P. Dutta, 4. Goldie Bahel, 5. Sanjay Gadhavi

            Hindi Speaking who in all probability gonna repeat him : 1. Tarun Mansukhani 2. R. Balki

            Non Hindi Speaking : 1. Mani Ratnam 2. Ram Gopal Verma

            PS : I am not in mood to defend Jr B .. but just putting straight reply .. which without context (because if i talk in context, Sanjay gadhavi and Tarun mansukhani are liable to take Jr B because of franchise) is as good as your accusation on Sr. B calling producer of Chittagong for delay of movie. Obviously without context .. even blatant truth is as worthless as blatant lie.

            Like

    • and to expand this let me add here a point I made earlier today on Shanghai with respect to Z:

      [I should add a point here on Shanghai that I meant to earlier given that this was one of the things on which this whole discussion began.

      When a film like Shanghai is made it is completely fair to compare it to its original (Z) because that has been the inspiration here. The film is even a bit of a remake in this sense. One accounts for all the Bollywood elements and so on such as these might exist but it is completely alright to compare these efforts.

      But the sleight of hand that often comes about when people discuss these things is that they compare Shanghai not to serious efforts like it but less serious ones. In other words if the claim is that this is a film of world cinema or that it deserves to be seen in international festivals and so on.. well then those kinds of films are the real competition for this work, not what Bollywood usually makes.

      This is a point I’ve often made in a larger sense too. You can’t keep playing both sides of the debate. This shift often comes about. Now this is very different from using another perspective when all the contexts change. So if the claim is that Shanghai is a film of international caliber (whatever this term means!) then it can be compared to many international films. On the other hand if the references are only from Bollywood then perhaps the more absolute justification is valid. But you can’t do both at the very same time.

      Which is why I ended that note with the point on Girl with Yellow Boots. I liked the film a great deal. I fully agree this could easily be playing at many festivals (and has), it meets all those ‘standards’ (note how Indians are always obsessed with meeting ‘international standards’.. this itself is a colonized discourse.. why doesn’t anyone try to meet the standards of Ray or Ghatak or Adoor or Mrinal Sen or whoever?!). But then is it really so extraordinary when compared with tons of other films playing at those very same festivals. And I’m not just saying this because an Indian director has made it. As some of you might know I have expressed a certain impatience and boredom with the entire festival scene at points. There are just so many films from all over the world, so many ‘interesting’ films that one has constant access to. But in the end it’s really a superbazaar where the problem is paradoxically the ‘interesting’. which is to say that there are tons of films that operate at the Girl with yellow Boots level in every sense.

      Now I’m not blaming the directors because they’re not exactly attempting film revolution here. My point simply is that first of all I’m not just questioning the Indian film but secondly living upto supposed ‘international standards’ isn’t the self-evident label that it seems. But that even the label having this prestige speaks to something more profound.

      Getting back to Shanghai Z would be a tall order for any film (in that genre) to live upto. But we can’t cut it complete slack for this reason either. How does on decide whether such a ‘remake’ effort even if it doesn’t match the original is nonetheless a very interesting effort on its own? I would suggest the answer lies in the degree to which the director can adapt the film to his own (and immediate contexts). And here it’s not just about making a ‘rooted’ film (which would be a valuable move otherwise) but also in ‘thinking’ the rooted. Take Kahani for example, a film which I enjoyed a lot. It’s has all the rootedness and so on (though a caveat might be added here for how cities are filmed in Indian cinema.. increasingly in line with how many major cities are filmed in other cinemas) but this film could be made anywhere. Leaving aside the fact that the central idea here is in a very specific sense derivative (that’s not my main objection) the film could have been set in Mexico City or Shanghai or wherever and everything else could be the same. So the same rootedness would still be evident but there is nothing more specifically Indian here that couldn’t be translated very easily into other settings.

      This then is the Shanghai test. Whether it can configure the local in a way which makes it irreducible to easy translation. Much as Z is very anchored in a certain period and politics. The basic plot can be remade but the contexts cannot really be translated easily elsewhere.]

      Like

      • Anurag Kashyap Says:

        For the record.. i liked Shanghai more than Z..

        Like

      • Anurag Kashyap Says:

        And offcourse Yellow Boots is very substandard compared to the films on similar subjects from world over, Fatih Akin on seeing the film said, it could have been a great film but you hold back, you dont push the boundary.. and i accepted that. irony is that in this country, i was accused of pushing the bouindary little too much..
        Satyam , you are not the man in the arena , i am. A Q made Gandu, it got banned, i am producing his next film but it wont be Gandu. It is still subverting something, it subverts Tagore.
        Its one step at a time, here. The films you compare our films to are institutionally funded , in countries not plagued by the middle class moralities of the repressed kind. Try getting the same filmmakers to come here and make those films in this country, they cant. Danis Tanovich’s film never got the permission to shoot here, forget that they did not allow sam mendes to shoot bond in this country. i have been through water and Paanch and Black friday, you expect a tall order from us.
        A Ghatak and a Ray film were relevant to the times they made them in and because they did not have much public exhibition and people trusted only one political party in the country then, a lot happened in our cinema. Read the history of censorship.
        Things changed with Emergency, Kissa Kursi Ka, Om Dar Badar.. they all got banned.. our best documentaries are banned.. you think a filmmaker can go all out and really express himself in all its honesty.. then you are dreaming and best of luck to you..
        Do you know how difficult it is to make a film for most filmmakers.. you should ask Adoor , why is he not making them these days.

        Like

        • I am not saying it’s ever easy for your kind of filmmaker to make films. All I’m suggesting is that directors like yourself find it relatively easy to entertain these ‘romantic’ notions of ‘one man battling the system’ and so on. Not that your struggles don’t exist. But these aren’t the only ones. You would have done far worse in the film industry of the 80s. So you are still living in a much better age. This is obviously the case given that so many filmmakers like yourself exist today whereas they did not in some earlier ages. To say that there is institutional support elsewhere or has been is simply false. The Hollywood studios mercilessly edited Magnificent Ambersons without even bothering to inform Welles. All his life he struggled in his industry. There are tons of such examples. Look at the career of someone like Lang. What he did in Europe and what he was allowed to do in Hollywood. On and on. Kurosawa couldn’t get Japanese finance for either Kagemusha or Ran, which was his strongest genre. Coppola and Lucas and people from France had to help out. The stories are legion. So yes Mussolini and his family supported the Cinecitta enterprise and some directors got a chance there. But think about what the political consequences here were if you fell out of line! Fellini spent the entire second part of his career struggling for finance. Not saying every single person was in this position. But they were typically better when their films were relative box office successes. Not otherwise. Even after being successful with his very first film and even after delivering other successes Kurosawa could not adapt the Idiot the way he wanted to. A lot of that footage has been lost forever. I’ve already mentioned Soderbergh on Che as a contemporary example. It’s not fun and games elsewhere but I can understand the reality of your industry would seem a lot more immediate to you. Are things on balance much better outside India in very many parts of the West? Absolutely! But then there are also a lot more Anurag Kashyaps competing for the same resources! And if those systems are better this is in very important part due to the critical apparatus that you’re otherwise denigrating. Where there is a film culture that doesn’t base judgments on the box office and so on. The critical establishment has an institutional importance in this sense. But in the very same ways you too are working in an industry that for all its problems is a massively better place for you than it might have been had you arrive a couple of decades earlier or more!

          Ray made his first film holding his own camera. Where’s the institutional support? Most of the time India didn’t even send his films to right festivals and awards. He could won a lot more. He was more viable because many of his films didn’t do too badly in Bengal even when they failed. But when those failures because more significant he too ran into problems. So during the 70s and 80s he had the worst phases of his career! It wasn’t just about politics though of course I agree with the political climate of that period.

          But again this isn’t the debate. I have never once raised the question: why do you not make better films than the ones on display? My questions go to what you’ve said and the inconsistencies of the same. Nor was I criticizing Girl with yellow boots. I was just wondering how it could be rated in the larger terms you’ve set out. By the way if you call it substandard I think that’s an absurd opinion, if sincerely held.

          I always like to quote this example. My favorite non-Indian filmmaker is Kurosawa, at least on most days. But my favorite critic on him is Jonathan Rosenbaum who is not a Kurosawa fan at all and who for example likes Dreams and some of the late little films over all his great work in his peak career and so on. But I still prefer reading him on Kurosawa than many critics who are fans of his. Because I get richer insights from him. I think the quality of the criticism matters much more than agreement or disagreement. The latter is a child’s game. The exchange is what it’s really about.

          I don’t see why you’re so defensive about all of this. I am not in the arena, you are. But one of the rules of being in that arena is about facing the criticism and the questions and so on and learning to separate the valuable from the worthless and not in turn launching attacks on the very value of any questioning! But also note where this logic leads one. A major actor could tell you that even though he finds it easier to act in films the pressures on him are that much greater because he is even more in the arena! When you fail the system doesn’t really care. When he fails it’s a high impact event! Would you concede this sort of argument then?!

          And this is what I mean when I say that one can be operating in a certain ‘romantic’ comfort zone where one is the only one under attack, where everyone else except people who are in the very same box have it easy etc. No! The stakes are differently configured for different people. And one must develop an appreciation for this fact of life.

          Like

          • Anurag Kashyap Says:

            there are no romantic notions.. you want to make a film, you either get the money or you dont.. when you dont, you fight for it.. its all driven by the need to make that film.. the fight is similar to everyones, the need to survive with one’s own ideas intact..

            our films do not rate on larger terms internationally.. but each one here is trying to get there.. for the first time in my life i have sold two films internationally and have found international release, mainstream , non indian diaspora release.. its just the begining. it gives me more freedom..fight is just for that.. with freedom we will come into our own.. we are still making compromised films.. but DB hasn’t this time, neither has Aushim Ahluwalia or Vasan Bala or Anand Gandhi (ship of theseus) and i envy them and is why i talk of them..

            Ray was making films when times were different, stop making those comparisons..his worst phases started when times changed.. look at the kind of films made in 50s and 60s and the cost of them and the ticket prices then.. same filmmakers with similar films failed when we hit 70s. today those films wont last a day and if they were doing that today, they would be desperate looking for money..so stop those comparisons and make fair comparisons

            Like

          • but what kind of comparison is legit? only the kind that buttresses your claim? who is saying that you are don’t face these issues? Did I say that once in those longer responses? Have I said so since? I mentioned Ray and other only because you said DB was the best in India. Now you’re saying you only meant Hindi cinema. Why is an auteurist director yourself so willing to subscribe to these old Bollywood definitions? Where Indian cinema really means Hindi cinema. And if you quiz anyone they say ‘oh you know what I mean’! No I don’t! Because these definitional issues are very important.

            But your claim essentially is that whether it’s Fellini or Ray or whoever in any part of the world they all had more institutional support than you did. That’s a bit hard to swallow reading some of the accounts of the subjects in question! And reading some of the relevant histories. What age was Ghatak in sync with? Struggled with each and every production!

            Note however how there’s another issue here. This constant assumption that there are big bad commercial films and great small films which face finance issues. There are very many great commercial films as well just as there are very poor ‘auteurist’ efforts. Why don’t you for example try to make something bigger with somewhat bigger stars and try to get the finance that way? A somewhat more ‘palatable’ subject, which is to say one with broader appeal. Sure it’s a compromise but you’re willing to cast John Abraham anyway. if you did so once for that reason you could do so again! I am not judging you at all on this. But maybe the problem is that you have a certain notion of things that you perhaps need to challenge. Perhaps a small film that subverts the received ideas of 20 people in a deep way is a better way of approaching things. But perhaps a larger film that subverts the received ideas of 100 people less profoundly is also not a bad way of doing it. It’s your will and wish but sometimes there are less choices because there is less imagination. What is one’s ultimate goal?

            On Adoor incidentally Swayamvaram is usually available on youtube with subs. I don’t know if it’s available right now. There’s another one that was available too, I forget the title. Yet another one (Vidheyan) without subs, not sure if like Jim Jarmusch you like watching films without subs (assuming you don’t know Malayalam). In the US his Shadow Kill is available on DVD, in the UK his Rat-Trap. The latter will play on Indian DVD players.

            Like

          • rockstar Says:

            why comparison of ray is any different ….

            most of the ray’s films have been preserved by gora’s only and not us

            they even lifted one of his scripts and it was none other than speilberg(et) that fetched him oscar

            as for ray’s film which you said are not relevent is again entirely not true as they have been the inspiration of many still now

            a mahapurush( a movie on fake god man is still relevent)

            a very recent kahaani took many interesting sequences from joy baba felunath

            koi mil gaya was again liifted from his work( and so do the famous charact jaadu )

            agantuk inspired atithi tum kab jaoge …. examples are many

            i found it very hard to beleive his films are not relevent

            Like

          • The Graduate Says:

            Agree with Kashyap here.His wish to break free gets reflected in the praise for directors that he feels “already have”! There is a certain tendency amongst us to compare film from two different eras when the pattern and design of film-making gets changed every two year or so. With Kadhyap “fighting” for his projects just to realise his own dream of making a cinema that is uninhibited,gives me vibes we are ready to usher in a new order in Indian Cinema. Adoor and Ray had different times.Even greats like Fellini,Capra fell from heights as times changed.If a certain director is trying to buy his time when the “time” is his to make a film that succeeds on his conditions,I am all game for it.Saw the trailer of Miss Lovely.Did not seem like an Indian film anyways! If one wants to break the set notions,I do not think he is in romance with himself.Infact the zeal to gratify one’s own thirst in an art we know as film-making is a great motivation to fight for the finances required.Respect Kashyap for that!

            Like

          • rockstar Says:

            well the the pattern and design mave have changed and it has happened becauuse of technologies which is constantly evoving but you can never change a directors vision , script part and a tight screenplay

            other greats might have fallen with time momentarily but their work stood the test of time and had become inspiration for many

            ray was equally so called rebellious ….which director can destruct a guy who called manayak ( and deconstruct him compleately in nayak)…attacked religious customs ….made quality thrillers which where as good as anyone and even mock so called romance(kapurush )

            Like

        • The Graduate Says:

          Agree the irony with Kashyap is same as once the directors of Neo-Italian wave cinema faced.His movies try proving the accepted norms but to the outer world it still lacks the precision to cut the perimeter.Here lies the most accuarte depiction of state of likes of Kashyap. I personally feel that Kashyap if lets himself free from the market bondages for once,he can turn into the most gritty directors of our times.He is infact one among the most sound directors.All I want him to is get himself a space where he attempts a piece that is not only rebellion but also invites reactions galore,not only for the content but also for the vision.TGIYB was an attempt that looked like the director wanted to say more but he had to content saing less! On the contrary Udaan said more than it wanted to basically beacuse the subject was not a taboo as in the TGIYB. We Indians want great Cinema but we ourselves never wish to break our own inhibitions.

          Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            He seems to have been stopped in his tracks
            Seems to be a pre-nup arrangement -though do wanna see it..
            In his own words–its a ‘much inferior’ product
            The question is –why did he make it
            If he says–“made it for my partner” –we will be so impressed (by the honesty !)

            Like

          • rockstar Says:

            everyone resist change but if product is good it stands the test of time …if indians don’t want good cinema then how there are so called better regional cinema going around

            even gow is inspired from one(subramaniapuram)

            Like

          • omrocky786 Says:

            TGIYB was an attempt in so what is the point , even Udaan was 10 times better than TGIYB …His best IMO are Black Friday, DevD and to some extent Gulaal…

            Like

    • I think Anurag has missed the point Satyam is trying to make.
      The essence of entire debate is in the last paragraph in the article. ”I prefer honest, frank discussion rather than dishonest polite ones”.

      I think Satyam wants you to realise that your support of certain mediocre art (not all) coming from your acquaintances and criticism of certain possibly better work from others, is not in the best interest of cinema, of which you regularly call yourself a Connoisseur.

      Like

  6. alex adams Says:

    yo, is that anurag kashyap the film maker…
    good to see here anurag…
    if u do get a chance, plz have a look at the previous comments –some feedbakc–mostly positive, some construcitve
    dont think u should visualise this as an ‘anurag kashyap is up for interrogation’ exercise
    i love your films and would love to see u go from strngth to strength… 🙂

    Like

  7. Anurag Kashyap Says:

    And when i say someone is ballsy, then it is always keeping in mind one’s environment, circumstances and system he is operating under. Making a film what DB has made, funded by studio in this world we operate in is more ballsy than a Fellini making a film at Cinecitta in the times he made them in. Those were changing times, Cinema was not as much commerce as it was art, and there were patrons of art, amongst the audience, today the same Italy and France , the home for the neo realist cinema and the new wave respectively, is plagued with the presidents who have cut off all subsidies on art and are against any art that cant be commercialized. The world has changed.
    And i really apologise , i have never seen an Adoor G’s film.Don’t know where to see them so have no opinion on them.
    Nor do i include tamil films or any language films when i talk of DB, i am only talking of hindi cinema and that too now. And when i said ,”I loved Rockstar” i meant it. I am sorry if that disappoints you and you can judge my taste in cinema on that statement, but you can not say i liked it because he is my friend. My bigger friend and mentor is Shriram Raghavan and Shivam Naiir and i have never liked a single Shivam Nair feature and did not comment on Agent Vinod.
    I am a great admirer of courage and when i see that , i applaud and that for me is the foremost quality in a man. It does not matter how intelligent, potentially great, articulate or creative you are or can be, but if you dont have the courage to step out of your comfortzone and do what you seek from others then you are as redundant as a dead rat. All your intellectual discourses will remain just that, FAFF.
    You guys have fully formed ideas of how and what anything should be and with that scale you measure everything, but cinema like every other form of expression is everchanging. I have never met a filmmaker who actually bothers about theory. And i have never met an academic or theoritician who has actually made a great film.
    I am not what you seek of me. I am what you see or read or hear from me. I am not the answer to what you want to ask or you expect to see in me.. you are.. and maybe you need to step out of the blog and become that.
    You will be less disappointed.

    Like

    • I have never met a filmmaker who actually bothers about theory. And i have never met an academic or theoritician who has actually made a great film.

      This is a good point, but it’s also true that even artists need real (not fake) criticism to spur their instincts. The process of creation is beautiful, but the process is not the end by itself. And to a certain extent, you shouldn’t just look for “courage” in a filmmaker, you should possibly ask, nigh demand for a better film culture in India. The film critics in India are a bigger joke than our films, unfortunately…

      Like

      • (y) certainly a great point, saket which you point out from anurag’s comment, i guess its the eternal debate of critic versus the artist.

        As i see it, the middle approach is good, and on this point i am always reminded of Baradwaj Rangan whose review’s always add something to the pleasure of watching the movie.

        Like

      • Anurag Kashyap Says:

        Ask Filmmakers,”Which critic do you love the most , that makes sense” and they will mostly quote Pauline Kael. and the likes of her

        Like

        • I have actually read most of Pauline Kael’s reviews. But the technicality is 1) she’s dead and 2) she never really reviewed Hindi cinema apart from supporting Satyajit Ray.

          So yeah, my original gripe remains: who are the critics worth reading in India (apart from Bharadwaj Rangan)?

          Without a proper channel for film criticism, without a film culture, there’s little chance or hope for Bollywood’s cinema to take a “true” leap forward. I think you should definitely support the right critics, if not try to “expose” them…

          Like

          • Anurag Kashyap Says:

            shubhra gupta..namrata joshi..nandini ramnath

            Like

          • Anurag- I suppose that it is fair enough if you say that your reactions to a film are instinctive and spontaneous and that you cannot process the critical merit of movies in a dispassionate manner.

            But surely you have some coherent preferences on the kind of films that you would like to support- for example you have termed a certain set of filmmakers the Madurai trimuvrate for some commonalities that their cinema shares- so what then are the common charecteristics that cause you to support the Hindi filmmakers that you support?

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          • “And i have never met an academic or theoritician who has actually made a great film.”

            Goddard and Truffaut were critics before they were filmmakers were they not?

            Like

          • Goddard and Truffaut were critics before they were filmmakers were they not?

            I believe Scorsese taught in a film school as well, before he took up direction. Paul Schrader is another one.

            But those are examples/products of systems that have a healthy film culture in place.

            Like

          • quite right Saket.. in fact the whole French New wave was deeply entrenched in the critical establishment. But this proves my point against Kashyap. A healthy critical culture cannot be denigrated this way and all those filmmakers would have been shocked to read such an opinion. Plus it must also be said that criticism at its best (from Bazin to Rosenbaum) is itself an art form or at least a way of thinking. The idea that there are simply films around that can be absorbed directly is a very philosophically naive position. One cannot appreciate or ‘think’ Antonioni (for example) without being a student of cinema in some loose sense of the world. It’s not a qualification by any means. I am not suggesting that general audiences don’t profit from such films (though even here there is critical intertwining.. how do such general audiences even get to such a film?!) but that the true measure of an Antonioni cannot just depend on an impressionistic absorption (perfectly legitimate on its own) of his work. In much the same way the answer to the question ‘why is Tolstoy great?’ cannot be ‘because he writes interesting stories!

            Like

          • Satyam, completely agree with you (regarding the critical appraisal of films). Without the right system in place, there is no incentive, no reason for even the brightest talent to ‘introspect’.

            Like

        • The Graduate Says:

          Sponatneous reaction to a cinematic piece is the most genuine reaction.What happens later is just too much analysis and modification!

          Like

          • rockstar Says:

            spontaneous commercial reaction is what you mean because india still don’t have critic culture at this moment of time precisely (except for a random bhardwaj rangan there is hardly anyone around and at times commercial factors to influence critics

            one rarely fine consistency

            Like

    • If you are AK than let us move this debate to fresh thread created for that purpose only . here is the link

      https://satyamshot.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/a-debate-with-anurag-kashyap-2/

      Ps: unless someone confirms I still have doubt

      Like

    • Anurag – seems like u dont care much about abhishek and his rather insipid career much like most of the paying public.Good to see you calling a spade a spade, as usual, except that you disappointed a bunch of abhishek fanboys here. 😀

      Like

    • “And the ones i have no interest in, the deadwoods like Abhishek, people dead within like him, ”

      haha,satyam will live to regret inviting anurag at ss. anurag ,take a bow sirjee 😀

      Like

    • As I said the other day what’s a good debate without the insults?!

      I never said it was equally difficult everywhere but judging by the struggles of many world-famous directors around the world, judging from their own accounts (have you heard Soderbergh on how he made Che and how he never expected to be allowed to make something like this again?!), judging from all the horror stories of so many important studios from Hollywood to Japan, judging from the pure financial struggles that many filmmakers have faced in their respective industries and in a historic sense, the idea that somehow DB in Bollywood is a lone revolutionary is a bit hard to swallow! You make it sound as if this is Eisenstein going up against Stalin’s censors! But leaving aside even the comparisons I would argue DB is in Bollywood exactly at the right time where precisely his kind of filmmaker and cinema has a certain prestige that makes it viable within the multiplex economy. This obviously doesn’t mean he’s not going to struggle to get financing. But wake up! You’re the ‘insider’. This is what the movie-business is about! It’s not a dharmshala! Directors like DB will always have it tough. I admire him for the line he’s pursuing but he’s not the only one. By any reasonable estimation many others belong to that list and they’re all presumably struggling against the system. One of those guys decided to go big and make LAK. I guess it must have been really tough doing this subject with Saif and Deepika and Preetam;s soundtrack. Which is why you loved the film!

      On Rockstar again you’re shifting the terrain. You have every right to love any kind of film. I wouldn’t question you on that score. But the films you highlight are curious as a set. Otherwise we should take Rakesh Roshan at face value that he isn’t saying so because Hrithik is his son. He genuinely believes Hrithik is the best there is currently!

      So I’m not disappointed with your film choices. I’m disappointed with your ethics to be brutally honest about it. And not because I’m some naive “fanboy” and not because I expect anything from “insiders” (by the way this label doesn’t mean as much as you think it does! the best perspectives on anything are rarely provided by ‘insiders’.. what the latter provide and that is valuable is detail and process info and so on.. the greater truth though always requires a much larger perspective.. it isn’t about the accumulation of insider info.. which let’s face it is often quite synonymous with insider gossip!). You have set up these ethical standards for yourself by constantly saying industry people don’t have the balls to do this or that or whatever, that they don’t have the taste or sensibility to appreciate good films, that they live in a pond.. on and on and on. So shouldn’t you be held to the same standards?

      On ‘courage’ here’s another red herring. So either only DB struggled to finance his films or whatever or perhaps this was a problem faced by Imtiaz Ali on Rockstar or LAK but every other filmmaker is having a jolly time getting his or her project off the ground. All those projects require no ‘courage’ at all. The box office of those films doesn’t affect those directors either! Again you’re using different things to somehow explain your singling out of certain names. I am more interested in what the universal principle here is! Leaving this aside is ‘courage’ an aesthetic standard? Are films great because their directors have been courageous?

      As for academic intellectuals never having made a great film that’s a really sad charge coming from you! I would have expected this kind of thing from Karan Johar! Nonetheless let’s unpack this — so who do you think is every going to ‘understand’ your films? Is it the general public that will be able to figure out all your choices with Girl with yellow boots? Wouldn’t a proper appreciation of your work precisely require a more academic discussion or at least a very informed criticism? And what does this indignation amount to anyway?! That if one disagrees with you, if one seriously interrogates your work and positions, that one should be treated with this sort of remark?! The gentleman you called dead from inside a little while ago was far more open to such criticism and did not dismiss it out of hand. His father takes far worse from me. I’m sure a lot of it is not easy to hear but these ‘dead folks’ reacted better and more positively to the criticism!

      But this is an old trope — the artist when cornered is always eager to dismiss the theorist. But the theorist has been around as long as Aristotle! Criticism done the right way performs a valuable function. You should know this more than anyone else. Those other places you celebrate, what was the difference? The critical establishment supported the ‘new’. Isn’t it a little ironic that for someone who wants to be heard in Bollywood as a ‘new’ voice and doesn’t want to be bullied by the system suddenly turns around and tries to bully a blogger (admittedly a nobody!) in exactly the same ways!

      By the way the idea that I or others like myself are locked into certain positions and ideas on cinema is so patently false I cannot even take this charge seriously! But even if I was so what? Aren’t you locked into certain ideas too?! What kind of criticism is this? One either makes a case for one’s position or not. No one has to agree. Things can certainly be debated. But what’s this strange idea that one is somehow locked into a position? I am nobody but every great thinker could be said to be locked into a position! Great musicians are locked into certain ideas of music. On and on. What does this mean?!

      It is not that you are or are not the the answer to what I am seeking. I would suggest you might not be the answer to what you yourself are seeking! That is the crux of the debate!

      And finally I am not sure what comfort zone you are referring to. Since I haven’t made larger claims. I am quite happy offering opinions this way and occasionally challenging people in Bollywood in the same way. Some like it, some don’t. That’s fine. But again isn’t this criticism infantile — hey change the world before you criticize me!

      I am actually not offended by any of your responses but I must say I am rather disappointed by the non-seriousness and even pettiness of some of your responses. This isn’t about being articulate. I would have thought you’d display more ‘courage’. Sadly you don’t think there’s anything in your career or public statements that can be legitimately scrutinized.

      Nonetheless I do appreciate your taking the effort to respond. If this “fanboy” didn’t have this instinct about this “insider” he wouldn’t have initiated this exchange! It sometimes helps to be on the outside!

      Like

      • I am rather disappointed by the non-seriousness and even pettiness of some of your responses

        As big a fan of Amitabh Bachchan I am, I don’t find AK’s comments petty. I find them to be *brutally* honest. Of course, I can’t say what the “truth” is, but ‘sticking to your guns’ isn’t pettiness. I’d rather people be ‘outspoken’ than keep mum, which is what most of the people in the industry do.

        Like

        • But then you should be outspoken for everyone. You can not do it selectively. We may hate RGV but he is like that.

          Like

          • Actually, RGV too is selective. He too picks his targets.

            But leaving that aside, isn’t ‘partial’ outspokenness better than none at all?

            Like

          • not really.. sometimes the partial can be a lot more dishonest.. a half-truth is sometimes as much of a lie as a proper lie. It depends on the contexts.

            Like

          • You don’t have to lose much if you are outspoken about “others”. If you outspoken about people near you, you have more to lose!

            ps – I cited an example in one the previous discussions..If Mayawati says something that caste is immaterial..she has much more to lose than Amitabh saying the same!

            Like

        • Well Said Saket and agree with Munna also that not being selective.. Be brutal honest to one and all without care and fear

          Like

    • The Graduate Says:

      I would rather agree to Kashyap here.He is expressing his own views in similar vein as AB Sr. does on many things.The core of the debate here is Kashyap’s continuous praise of Banerjee and his clique which many find exaggerated.In some way it might also be seen as a genuine praise considering when on the other hand we do buy anything that Ab Sr. speaks. If the notion that “Remakes should not be done” applies to SRK in Don,then it also applies to his son in Players and himself in RGV ki Aag. If we accept or tend to accept the “opinion” of Big B which takes different flavours for different occasions then we might as well give Kashap the benefit of doubt here. And then what has he done at most–offended a few fans by saying something against Sr. Bachchan!! Big B is one of the most accomplished stars of Bollywood but the respect for him also gets diluted seeing his dual stance.But we never point out that.Why is it that we take thie same issue for Kashyap in so much gravity.

      I also feel that sometimes Anurag Kashyap becomes very self indulgent and manouvers himself to his sub-conscious.That irks me.But at the end the truth is –It is just m opinion.I cannot substantiate it apart from expressing it in some language. I loved Black Frida for its amazing screenplay,liked Gulaal for its political tone and loved Udaan for the rebellion that was depicted. Did not like Dev D much nor did I like No Smoking.They were ambiguous pieces.But if Abhishek is considered a rebellion even after Players then Anurag who actually has written a rebellious character and is considered a visionary in a sort of neo-Indian wave has full rights to assert himself.There is nothing wrong in that.

      Also feel that his praise for Dibakar might be exaggerated as India’s best or whatever but then if a certain Abhishek can get praises from a few as “rebellious” “risk-taker” one also needs to understand then Dibakar in same tone can get an exaggerated praise from Kashyap.The fact is that we all have priorities.Till we have them we will never realise our own fallacies. Only when it comes to Fellini or Capra or Kurusawa,we tend to actually analyse truly as they are not priorities–they are just pure cinematic adjectives!!

      Like

  8. Alex adams Says:

    Anurag –pardon me-I’m a firm believer in ‘recycling’–do my previous post to u from yesterday–cheers

    Alex adams Says:
    June 5, 2012 at 5:07 AM
    Dear anurag kashyap
    I’ve been active in this blog for a while
    But unfortunately am not aware of the background of this ‘debate’–since was away n watching ‘rowdy rathore’ yesterday haha and have left some
    Comments in the thread -do tell us your views on the project (if not seen it)
    So won’t ‘debate’–but a few points of ‘feedback’ though not necessarily negative —
    1) firstly congrats for being probably the best filmmaker (director and producer) in the ‘progressive’ sense ofthe word
    Have loved all your films that I’ve seen like Dev d,
    Black Friday and even no smoking …wow
    2) do suggest that u take satyams views seriously and even try to incorporate him in in some capacity since not only is he much more than a movie afficianado and definitely much more than a bachchan fanboy and anyone who even sporadically visits this place knows it soon..
    3) I’m sure u are doing something about it but think your ACTUAL viewership far exceeds your box office numbers even after taking it account the ‘usual’
    Piracy since your clientele come up with other form
    Of downloads, the more known ones being
    Torrent etc
    Why not come up with some sort of a ‘legalised’ Internet release as well wherein the patron pays less than a
    Cinema ticket (obviously not a big screen experience) but ensures better picture and sound quality
    4) this shall give u a better handle not only of the numbers actually watching but also an idea of the target audience demographics
    5) I really appreciate the fact that even though you may not actively participate, you ja the good sense to engage with a ‘negative tweeter’ in this way -takes not only a vision but guts and conviction and also suggests a yearning to set up the bar higher and expedite the changes being. Just ‘envisioned’ by others
    6) why not form down sort of a ‘taster focus group’ even though informal –
    You can get instant feedback of your promos even ideas from a cross section of folks -who are not only in different countries , but varied tastes, backgrounds and age groups.
    Unlike some other blogs / spaces, this is not too crowded and so the responses can stand on their own while still individualised and more importantly anonymous (unlike fb, twitter)
    im sure all this is like teaching a granny how to drink water but -it should only increase your base and make the feedback that you receive
    More ‘wholesome’, robust and valid
    Kind regards

    Contd from above-
    Addendum
    7) when one sees stuff like the ‘Siberian’ sequence in no smoking and the ‘intoxication’ one in Dev d
    And many others : one wants the maverick ‘anurag kashyap’ movement to gain steam and become even more financially viable as well
    8) there’s a certain ‘looking down upon’ makers with successful box office ventures.
    Guess they are not ‘untouchables’ and have (more than ) a place int eh scheme of things
    For eg kjo haha
    Don’t think u should have real qualms in some sort of ‘tie ups’ to increase your viability and presence in the mainstream audiences -obviously fine tuning and tweaking can be done
    As for the ‘compromise ‘, it’s not perfect but what is??
    9) even I have (more than) some issues with abhishrek (oops sorry -abhishek bachchan-couldn’t resist, satyam)
    And have made them known
    But let’s not let a good debate and opportunity remain ‘hostage’ to the likes and dislikes for a guy who clearly needs to either reinvent or raise his game to continue -to be polite…
    10) know u have blogs/ twitter etc but an occasional sporadic comment or two no only here but in other blogs instantly raises your identification and audience feedback–
    Btw an email address or spac where one can punch in a sporadic comment/ genuine feedback may also be useful to maintain the ‘focus target sample group’ vibe
    Kind regards (again)

    Addendum 2-
    Now have read bits of the ‘debate’ apparently from what I could fathom
    11) for all his issues, abhishrek is simply NOT the worst actor or star out there and the ‘nepotism’ charge here is not an isolated case ..
    There have been worse ‘offenders’ as we all know
    12) ” says Satyam
    Well, to be frank, I personally feel that there are much much bigger ‘sins’ out there than that…
    Bonhomie and good amicable relations with parts of ones fraternity even on a somewhat whimsical and idiosyncratic (if not corrupt) parameters is much less harmless than most things
    For eg amitabh bachchan -I’m his greatest fan but I struggle to remember a single film he has seen in the recent past from Bollywood , oops Hindi film industry that I’ve not felt he has over praised and over sold (excluding his own sons films)
    Guess, there is a bigger ‘maturer’ design there and one feels that these things are just a small price to pay for ‘amicable congeniality’
    12) ‘never mistake motion for action’
    ‘Note to self: finding a cool quote and writing it in your journal is not a substitute for Getting. It. Done’
    Before I dish out and attack with some more (sic!) quotes, the bottom line is that what one SAYS In public , leave alone on twitter, FB, forums etc -ESP praise don’t have weight age beyond a point…
    Don’t think one should be severe on anurag kashyap on the people he has supported -atleast he also criticises and pulls down some stuff (not taint about selectivity)
    The true indicator is ‘actions’
    And that’s where he continues to impress
    Would love to see kashyap succeed in box officer terms as well
    Not saying that hes a sucker for Money and privileges etc but want his brand of cinema more prevalent, accessible and all pervasive …
    13) on a somewhat personal note
    Loved dabang and felt it had more to do with kashyaps bro than being perceived
    Also liked kallis act in both dev d and znmd
    Infact her casting in dev d and a characterisation was a class act !!!

    Point 12 above- Satyams comment was–”I find Kashyap’s polemics in terms of seeking reinvention for Bollywood inconsistent when contrasted with his own lionization of certain figures and the implications of such selective support”

    Like

  9. Alex adams Says:

    Yo gr8 comment there anurag
    Share your liking with rockstar…

    Like

  10. Alex adams Says:

    –Dear Anurag–
    if u get a chance, would love your brief views on the following films ,if uve seen them..
    they are not the alltime best list but a liberal sprinkling of some different genres/ styles/ sensibilities that ive seen recently and have some what exercised my mind (in different ways)
    in no specific order and just on the top of my mind randomly–though theres a temptation, but will keep it ultra short…
    Tree of life–mallick
    The turin horse-bella tarr
    paris-cedrick lapisch
    inglorious basterds-tarantino
    Hugo-scorcese
    the beginners-mike mills
    the names of love-lecrek
    the road to perdition
    vicky christina barcelona-allen
    ps–share your admiration for both dibakar banerjeet and rockstar!!
    ps2–thought nargis fakhris performance was quite ‘natural’ , heartfelt and effective in its own naive charm—why dont u give her a break

    also just checked ‘o womaniya’ promo–enojyed it
    typical kashyap ha
    liked the labels like
    ‘laundiyabazi’
    ‘dabangai’
    ‘haaramkhori’
    and
    “is saawan mein aag lagegi
    tere aangan mein”
    hahaha
    ps–could see the ‘naughty’ boy kashyap writing down that stuff
    keep it up m8

    o womaniya–immediate thoughts..
    anurag–cant help but admire
    a)the opening musical strains with the kid sitting on a cliff and then throwing a stone followed by a blast
    cunning background music…whose is it..
    b) manoj bajpai seems to be on a roll–dont rule out an award or two–he fits this terrain to the t..
    c) u seem to have a more than average understanding of the ‘small town’ , ‘badlands’ interiors of india–up bihar et al like few makers

    can think of –think dhulia is good in this as well, but personally , u add a dash of ‘mischief’–something i enjoy
    d)liked the ‘street level knife crime’ scen and the accomplanying sound effect didnt miss–well done there…
    ps–what began with a debate, mind end up with a praise rant–need to stop

    Like

  11. satyam delete this anurag fanboy…alex’s comments…he has lost it and is going gaga..like a fool.get a hold on urself and debate

    Like

  12. Anurag Kashyap Says:

    I regularly read your blogs and have seen and read the discussions on my arrogance and so on and your disappointments of what i have become or becoming. That is just an opinion and you will always have them. What i sadly miss there is an understanding or the curiosity as in why or even the willingness to go beyond opinionating. What i miss is your ability to seeing eachone differently and individually, with there strengths and weaknesses. Books and Cinema have been my windows to the world, i try to understand or experience cultures, societies, places, people and the creator through what they do and not for them to fit into my expectation of them. And i don’t see a film i am not intrested in, i dont meet people i dont want to meet and i dont try and change anyone when i meet them, i just associate with the like minded or the ones who intellectually stimulate me or inspire me. I try to figure them out in the hope that may be i will get something out of it.
    I am driven sometimes by my anger like in the past, or sometimes by sheer foolhardiness and sometimes just by the idea or the envy of not having done that which i admire so much.
    My drive is just films and i seek festivals because i seek sales and an audience beyond whats given. Because most of my audience here watches my films on torrents.
    Unlike politics cinema does not have a direct impact on our lives, so that makes us less answerable, nevertheless..

    Your whole argument is based on perception and what you read of others in the interview , which are never published as a whole.. and not on facts, so i suggest you collect questions and accusations which i will answer over a period of time between my promotions and number them so its easy to do that.

    The chapter on Abhishek Bachchan some other time, meanwhile i will wait for the responses and check tomo.

    btw when the world had written off the junior B , i stood up for him. then i did not know him but he looked fine and then we did Yuva together and post that when the world celebrated him i wrote him off, because only i could see how he ruined something which could have been much much better, probably iconic.
    And Saurabh, my accusation against AB was and is not false and the director made the statement he made under duress and its me who is trying to release that film and not AB and yes AB did make that call and i know it and no denial can make me change my stance. I know AB more than you, and i have been at the recieving end of his pettiness. I have been a bigger abd greater fan of AB than most,he was my childhood hero and i spent a lot of time in that house of his, which is why the disappointment is severe.
    One e.g. about his pettiness.. his secretary of many many years is on a salary lesser than my secretary of five years in a office where
    we just about break even. Dont ask me how i know that. Go investigate.

    Like

    • Hmmm…

      AK some here ( me also) are great admirer of your work and see all your movies in Theaters not torrents 🙂

      Hope you spend some more time here and talk about AB jr more in detail

      Like

    • I have never said that, but i always felt, that a weaker man can make a comment in duress coercion, compare to might of other side but Anurag do you understand by stating this on a blog you are again opening that box? and questions? of course you would, but still thought to inform you.

      between one thing i have once shared this and shall like to state (on abhisekh, i have liked his movies like guru, yuva etc , but… )

      this is story narrated by Kamlesh Pandey (Rang de bas anti writer)

      He had once came to college function and speech he said, that RDB was initially offered to abhisekh, (some role which i don’t remember) but it was declined after hearing as the family refused the script where their son dies, ( i am talking of at a time when he hadn’t made debut, this was offered as debut vehicle) and kamlesh pandey was perplexed… eventually the film went to aamir khan, who he said was great support in production of the movie, and had promised Rakesh Mehra that he will see to it the movie will happen.

      I was quite shocked by this statement of kamlesh pander on abhisekh and family… i am neither insider nor outsider… but this often surprised me… that refusal to die in first film being decided by family, and later on they were talking of some film samjauta express… and i remember abhisekh didn’t die in refugee…

      Like

    • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      btw when the world had written off the junior B , i stood up for him. then i did not know him but he looked fine and then we did Yuva together and post that when the world celebrated him i wrote him off, because only i could see how he ruined something which could have been much much better, probably iconic.

      I believe you like to walk oppossite from the world and not with the world. Just to be different. So that the world can notice you and count you as one of the ‘Others”. Well watever rocks yoru boat dude. Do enjoy your cinema and keep on making them. Also, thought that for people like you for whom only talent matters didn’t know you would indulge in such pettyness of others petty behaviour. Bachchan’s behaviour should not be point where you can uncredit the man for what he has done in the past as an actor and target his son. Like I said man, watever rocks your boat. Just be true to yourself just like you are with your cinema.

      Like

      • Anurag Kashyap Says:

        you are wrong.. i dont like to do things to be different.. i do things against something because i disapprove of it.. and when i can not change it , i refuse to be party to it and speak up..
        i have no issues with AB sr doing what he does for his son.. he is human, but when he does it at the cost of others then it bothers me.

        Like

        • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

          I was not speaking for Sr backing up his son, I was pointing towards your pettiness comment towards him. And using that as the yardstick for beating up his kid. Again, our opinions may differ here. Wanted to know is Aamir or Ranbir in your Bombay Velvet. Like I said, Take up my challenge and work with Jr. in Bombay Velvet. Lets see what you can do what Mani Ratnam couldn’t do in Yuva, Raavan or Guru. Or Rohan couldnt do Bluffmaster, DMD dor Rakesh Mehra in D6. In silencer style from 3 idiots. “Bol lagata hai bet” lol.

          Like

    • “about his pettiness.. his secretary of many many years is on a salary lesser than my secretary of five years in a office where…”
      somehow I cannot believe this stuff. When it rains/pours/floods in mumbai, his employees actually are invited and sleep in his house. When his kids got married, he for the record said that for him the foremost guests are his staff. Not sure about salary. If there is poor pay, people can leave employ. Just because star works hard and makes money doesn’t mean he has to share it with everyone. The same secretary wasn’t fired when Bachchan’s house was with the bank during distressful times when ABCL was in trouble, was he???!!!! I mean, I would start laying off my staff first thing. One thing about bachchan is that he has class and culture. The fact that you are bad mouthing him like this shows yours. I don’t think Bachchan will ever stoop down to those levels, no matter what. He may not have relations with Sonia/Gandhi family but he will never take to media and trash them. As far as forwarding the cause of junior, I don’t think that is such a bad thing. I too would stop all releases if similar movies, if I was influencial mom, for my kid. Just the way you would praise a friend’s movie to the skies because it starred my spouse (apart from being a decent movie).

      Like

      • omrocky786 Says:

        Di – great one…. seeti-taali!!

        Like

      • Anurag Kashyap Says:

        there is much more to it that i cant say.. anyways.. you have to believe what you do..
        rest.. you underestimate the love people have for ABsr.. they will take anything he gives them just to be around him and he does that.. gives anything

        Like

        • AK is the issue with both Bachchan’s personal or Ideological One??? and can you elobrate on dead wood phrase

          Like

        • I do truely believe that bachchan had rubbed you in wrong way somewhere, somehow. Anyhow, Bachchan loved Paan Singh Tomar and said so in his blog, right away, praising your buddy Dhulia and Irffan (on blog and on twitter). And he went one step furthur by having Dhulia/Irffan over to create some charity/trust to help the sportsmen in India. The man has got large heart.
          P.S: somehow I cannot see Abhishek insulting people like ADs. When I see spoiled brats, I know it (SRK for instance). Junior is polite and most of the time I do not see him brash/uncouth sort. Jaya bachchan told him, don’t worry about fate of the movie…it is important that you treat the spot boy right and that is most important thing while acting in a movie (something to that effect).

          Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            Agree with Di
            One can accuse abhishrek of stuff like laziness, lack of innovation, poor fitness etc
            But not of misbehaviour!!!!
            Can’t visualise this scenario…

            Like

          • “When I see spoiled brats, I know it (SRK for instance). Junior is polite and most of the time I do not see him brash/uncouth sort.”

            do u really believe u see them? i thought in modern day media is a warfare, u get to see what they want to show you. I dont knw whether you are correct or kashyap bhai! but the thing is he says he knows from what he is insider and u are relying on what you see in tv, news etc

            Like

          • @Rooney: I could be wrong as well. If he indeed is in habit of getting assistant directors fired, it would be in limelight ALL over the media..after all media hates him, right? Bigb too has said many places that junior needs to improve on his dialogue and grip over the language. Anyhow his career is near its death. So what difference would it make.

            Like

        • “they will take anything he gives them just to be around him and he does that.. gives anything”
          Yhea….but if your secretary is not loyal, he can royally screw you up! So it is important to keep secretary happy. just the way it is important to keep financial advisor happy…otherwise woh aap kaa paisa chori karkay bhag jayega. Anyways. Maybe you are right. After all I am not an insider!!

          Like

      • rockstar Says:

        and thats why he is acting in his makeupman’s movie even though it is bhojpuri

        Like

    • praneet Says:

      Dudes its not about the man.. its about the movies.
      kashyap is a creative person, not an intellectual/academic gyan guru, his movie knowledge makes him good at what he does and thats it.
      He did not ask to be made the messiah/god/rockstar of torrent downloading DVD collecting janta. we made him what he is
      He has his own friends, he has his own cinematic tastes, he is free to make what he likes and like whatever suits his fancy and thats been the sole fight of his existence…BUT his cinematic taste should not stop you from developing your own fancies. I’m sure he has not seen the movies you have seen.
      If the point of debate is nepotism/ hyperbole then its not worth debating, if its about Z and Shanghai to India me 12 logon se zyada ne na novel pada hoga aur na itni purani movie dekhi hogi. to wo comparison purely snob value ke liye hai and maybe thats why DB sought such an old movie to save himself from the comparison bullshit.

      A lot of jealousy, awe, dependence, indifference, a sense of responsibility goes in his direction. Which is good in a way but sad also cos there are other filmmakers too..and most of all this is not of his doing.

      ‘m a fanboy purely cos he managed to make and release a pointless/personal film like No Smoking in Theatres with JA and Kumar Mangat. 🙂 (abhi tak gaaliyan deta hoga woh!!)
      I would have seen that movie anyway but to be honest it was not worth paying for..and wasnt made for anyone apart from himself. he managed to release such a movie is one big achievement in India..
      Still feel TGIYB was a pre-nup agreement, BF was awesome, Dev D was pathbreaking and Gulaal was very very interesting. With his movies I always understand the sur or message he has in mind which I couldn’t in TGIYB and had to rely on blogposts to understand for NS.
      and we will be MUCH better OFF and HAPPY if we talk just about him on the basis of his films and not his likings, friends, foes, relations with AB and not associate him with everybody from Godard, tarantino and all the kick ass foreign cinema just because he is our only connect who is well covered by media.
      Maarni hai to iski filmo ki maaro cos you should pay and watch them.. baaki everything is irrelevent.

      Lets wait for his career to blossom, he should get more money to make his movies cos he has a market and contrary to what he says, that market is in India only.His market is limited though but he isn’t right if he says his movies will be watched on torrents nad not in cinemas, foreign festival circuit sales wise its still more misses than hits for majority of sold movies and that too if the price is low enough..

      Go and see GOW, if its just ganja, sex, gali galouch then cuss him, but if its good then a job well done, and wait for the next movie to salivate on.

      I remember I was blown away by Jalwa and Angaar whwn i saw them as a kid and always had hopes from people like Pankaj Parashar and Shashilal Nair. It pains me to see them fade..Where are they now. RGV is on the same track. AK should not go down that path, would I still be a fan when I’m 35 or 40, would he still be making “edgy” cool movies..even if he does not become our Scorcese, I will be happy if he becomes just the next Shyam Benegal who in my eyes is the most under appreciated director in the country even after doing good consistent cinema for donkeys years. I havent seen all his movies but his movies were never a sellout. Koi unhe puchata nahi, bas national awards milte rehta hai, no fucking fanboys have the time to eulogise the man’s career made without making any compromises..

      Like

    • Anurag Kashyap – “What i miss is your ability to seeing eachone differently and individually, with there strengths and weaknesses.”

      “And i don’t see a film i am not intrested in, i dont meet people i dont want to meet and i dont try and change anyone when i meet them, i just associate with the like minded or the ones who intellectually stimulate me or inspire me.”

      Aren’t these contradictory statements? In one you say you are a closed person and in other you say you appreciate people for what they are. But how can you appreciate (ability of judge) a person you haven’t interacted? “

      Like

  13. Alex adams Says:

    Sumit : wait till the end of this discussion
    Probably if I get time, will show u what and how much to delete!!!!
    U seem a self Deprecating fool –u must be a ‘blind fanboy’ of whoever –I’m not !!!

    Like

  14. Sumit, mate i know the fan in Alex has got a bit excited but he is making perfectly fine points. And u don’t have to be so rude. I know it for a fact that Alex is certainly more than a fanboy

    Like

  15. Alex adams Says:


    Could you please elaborate, if possible….

    Like

  16. Alex, i meant that u r not a blind fan, thats it

    Like

  17. @anurag…..u r soft on ur friends and that is something which has repeatedly come to my notic by ur rave reviews of movies minted by those who r close to u…..lbc…rockstar…the examples r many.there is nothing wrong in supporting ur friends but then u cannot claim to be a rebel anymore…a guy who stands for quality cinema..and has balls enuff to go against the bollywood syndicate.when other film makers do the same thing…u raise a lot of hue and cry and shout that the bigger fish is not letting the smaller ones survive.u make a mockery of respected names in bollywood…but when it comes to ur friends ur principles and ur courage gets diluted.this makes us all believe that sooner or later u r going to become the devil against whom u r claiming to fight.once u r successful in terms of boxoffice…..u r going to revert to the same tactics which r offending yu rite now.ur blind support of the movies of ur friends is an indication of that.instead i wud have respected u more had u been not so blind towards ur friends and called a spade a spade…i think that is real courage.ur movies r brilliant…and the youngsters who want to go against the tide look up to u…so i hope u will bring about a more critical approach in the reviews u give to the works of ur friends…..and not go hyperbolic…it pisses me off

    Like

    • Anurag Kashyap Says:

      who claims i am a rebel.. i dont.. you all put that epithet on me, media does that.. i am just me

      Like

      • ok if u claim not to be soft on ur friends then just answer me…who do u think is a better director..as far as the craft of directing a movie is concerned?….be honest imtiaz or shimit amin?

        Like

        • who do u think is a better lyricist….gulzar or piyush mishra?which movie had a better screen play…..delhi 6 and rang de basanti…or zindagi na milegi dobara….and luck by chance?

          Like

          • your judgement is highly influenced by ur circle of friends…it is okay to make criticism…..but to get blind for the sake of friendship is unfortunate…..i am not saying anything against db…i know he is a great director..probably as good as u r…but the others in ur circle…r common directors…no better than what we see in the camp of ppl against whom to often reserve ur diatribe….so one shud have the courage to accept that

            Like

        • Let the debate be on broader landscape instead of who’s better than whom ???

          Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            Sumit-can u write down this kjo style ‘Rapid fire’ on your ass and revisit here when done 😉

            Like

        • Bhaisaab, woh kya yahaan tumhare “murgi pehle aayi ya anda” waale sawaalon ka jawaab dene aaya hai???

          Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            Anurag– for all your good intentions and maverick bravado, one sometimes feels u somehow lack a certain ‘killer instinct’ to get a project ‘success’ (including some box office returns)
            Probably u let your ego and behavioural compulsions get the better of u
            I mean, successful folks like kjo are obviously not your types but they arent entirely ‘untouchable’
            Would a bit of tact n diplomacy help in making some joint projects to increase the ‘reach’ and appeal in the product design (I’m not taking only about kjo bit relatively workable folks)

            Like

          • no i guess he is assuming that he is here to Play

            “Koffee with Sumit”

            ps – karan is gonna be pissed with that!

            Like

        • Anurag Kashyap Says:

          craft shimit.. narrative shimit.. characters imtiaz..imtiaz’s craft improved by leaps with Rockstar though..
          But on an aside craft does not often make a great film.. if you talk cinema grammar, no one has it better than DB or Vikram Motwane ..in hindi..

          Like

    • Anurag Kashyap Says:

      Sumit i only see films that i see.. if i miss talking about a film that the world is excited with maybe i have not seen it.. with people who i know, i get to see the films before and seperately..
      and i dont review films.. i see a film , i like it and i talk about it. i dont like it, i stay quiet. i have stopped criticising publicly, but when i lke smthing i say it and thats all you hear..

      Like

      • Your movies are alright. I personally prefer Dhulia more (me being part of mango people—aam junta). His movies are entertaining. Your movies are prolly for critics and intellectual types (many folks on this blog) who can understand theory of cinema and camera angle and what not.

        Like

  18. Alex adams Says:

    No it’s not for u Saurabh–
    the comment didn’t come through —
    It was anurags comment about ‘ his anger from the past’
    Which needed elaboration–
    Anurag– where of u get the ‘small town sensibilities’ u project so well…
    Also in dabang – a related note -your bro perhaps wanted a more caste politics ridden take-how much of that was diluted
    Btw I loved dabang

    Like

  19. omrocky786 Says:

    Re.- For someone who cast John Abraham as a lead that is rich indeed!!
    Golf Clap Satyam , what a great comeback line …maza aa gaya !

    Like

  20. Anurag has lived in benaras.just like me, he knows the heartland of UP and places like Obra and Chhapra like the back of his hand. he studied in a prestigious boarding school- Scindia School, Gwaliar (when i was in The Doon School, i went for a hockey match to that school), where by his own admission, his life was hell

    Like

  21. Alex adams Says:

    Anurag bro–like your attitude, panache and spirit
    Just a simple question–
    Where does all this ‘anger’ in u come from…
    Are there any ‘ghosts from the past’ that u feel are responsible and have brought u to where u are today…(I mean a successful maker)

    Also-
    Heard u saying somewhere that ranbir is the best actor today–is that true or are u trying to sign a film with him…
    Btw agree that he was brilliant in rockstar..

    Like

  22. bachchan1 to 10 Says:

    Hello Ak,
    Over the years, I have always adored your cinema and to a certain do get you. For example, In the girl in yellow boots, Ruth is looking for her father and how he has different names along the way. What I gather here is that we are looking for God, it doesn’t matter what you know him/her by, Allah, Jesus or Ram. These are some obvious implications that one can pick up. But, What in the hell was No Smoking about? I have seen it over 5 times and still dont get the point of the movie (if anyone else can explain). Besides that no issues with your brand of cinema. Do enjoy them. Bit far fetched but good that we have directors like you that do these kind of films.

    Now to the main point, what in the hell you have against Abhishek? Is it because the man was born with a silverspoon? Or is it because you know you cant get there? (sorry folk spelling it out here). If you think the man can’t act to save his life, and you consider yourself one of the best things that happenned to Indian cinema then I Challenge you to cast him in your ambitious Bombay Velvet and make him act. This should be a challenge to you as a director. Forget what he is behind the camera, forget what he may have done and not done, Let’s see THE Anurag Kashyap can make him “act”. Sorry dude, This is a fan talking no doubt, but give the man a break man, He is already burdened with such a surname and now a spouse soon some people will take Aaradhya into account as well and blast at him. So lets see sir. What can you do?

    Like

    • Anurag Kashyap Says:

      God cant make him act.. reason being he is lazy, takes everything for granted, treats assistants like shit, does not work on it.. and if somebody makes him do it, he cribs and whines and gets him thrown off the film.. he has made life hell in the past for dialogue AD’s that i had in two films.

      Like

      • Anurag Kashyap Says:

        And thats not just my opinion.. thats the opinion of most who have worked with him, which is why noone wants to work with him. They bear with him because of his dad and the great man that he was.

        Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          U said some where that abhi was good in yuva but u had to bloody write the best the lines of your life for him to do that 🙂
          Something on those lines ….

          Like

        • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

          So you are going by the words of others and forming an opinion. You worked with him Yuva, did you experience such behaviour? you are just talking about how others were treated. you didnt say anything about him and you in Yuva. Dont buy it sir.

          Like

          • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

            I guess you dont want to be THAT director who takes the responsibility of making AB act. I guess you still not confident of yourself as a director. Because over the years you have always worked with “good” actors. Where is the challenge in that? I guess you are not upto the challenge sir. Even if its to prove a point.

            Like

          • omrocky786 Says:

            also read Di’s response above…..
            Aside- Kashyap’s Fanboys ( since he called Satyam one, I can too ) were interviweing Sujoy Ghosh and when h said someting good about Sr. Bachchan they all pounced on him….was glad to see that Sujoy stuck to his ground…

            Like

          • “Because over the years you have always worked with “good” actors”

            Like John Abrahan?! I’m sorry- but this comment of yours is a needlessly needling taunt…

            Like

          • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

            Ami, I was going to say barring John AB for the reasons he has provided above in the end. But Accidentally clicked on Post before it. Thanks for pointing it out though.

            Like

        • rockstar Says:

          mani repeated him twice and so did jp dutta and yash raj’s

          btw as much as i admire dialogues of yuva but have to say some of the dialogues of goal written by you didn’t set any trend and where harshly criticised

          Like

        • Anurag thanks for this info.In the past too ,many directors like sanjay gahdvi and pradeep sarkar have talked about abhisheks unprofessional behaviour but bcos of his dad’s influence ,most of the time such things do not reach the common public.

          Like

          • The Graduate Says:

            Not to forget how SR.B forced all flak for Raavan on Rathnam when the truth was that his own son was meandering in a lost world with no connect to the character!

            Like

          • rockstar Says:

            big b didn’t criticised mani …he criticized the editing part

            Like

        • The Graduate Says:

          Thanks Anuarg for that info.That vindicates my opinion that Junior B is nothing more than a product of nepotism that is being forced down our throat!

          Like

          • omrocky786 Says:

            Graduate – Actor is not an Organ which some Doctors force down.their patients Bills… aapko nahee pasand hai mat dekho uskee movies, ya phir mat read karo uskee tareefen…no one is forcing you …

            Like

          • just some hrs ago,when anurag had cordially asked to come to ss,satyam n co were praising his works in the hope that at the end of the debate,they will win a film for abhsihek.Once anurag showed them middle finger,now they r critisng his films.
            so funny lol 😀

            Like

      • “God cant make him act..”
        Possibly. On a serious note, do you think Kalki is good actress? Do you think she has future in hindi cinema with language and other limitations? I think she would have better career in theater.
        I truely wish that you put your prejudice aside and cast and work with bigb. He is very professional and won’t get any AD (dialogue or otherwise) fired. I promise you that. I think gr8 directors also need gr8 actors to take their work to next level. Bigb is that holy grail. Trust me on it.

        Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          Bit would bachchan sr like to work with him?

          Like

          • A gr8 actor (thespian or whatnot) needs a gr8 director as badly. It is a symbiotic relationship.

            Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            Anil kapoor had some really ‘nice’ things to say about him and vice versa
            There was something about ‘alain kallicharan’ -that got shelved…
            Maybe more info will be useful…

            Like

        • Bigb is that holy grail

          That is indisputable…

          Like

          • Big B is a holy grail but sadly i don’t find Kashyap (or DB) the greatest current bwood director (as some here think),period. he is brilliant no doubt but i can rattle of 10 names who r better than him

            Like

        • The Graduate Says:

          It is not about how Kalki acts or not.It is more about that she is more or less accepted in what she does.She does not do a Sonakshi or Kareena,for God’s sake! But Jr.B is not accepted at any level,nor is he accepted in the so-called rebellion avataar that his fanboys ty to project him in.There is no way Abhishek should be called an actor.What is so rebellious about him?That he did Yuva or Guru!! Just that! Why try and pull off a notion atht Yuva was Abhishek’s Swades/Lagaan when at max it was a marginally well made film where he at last could perform.What happened after Yuva.The same people who were gung-ho about Abhishek becoming the next Brando of Indian Cinema had to face flak each Friday.What they did was an opinionated and pre-determined piece on him and how the “visual clues” of Raavan were so apt that Abhishek’s forehead furrows encompassed a plethora of emotions.But the real question to be asked is –Has Abhishek found acceptance?The obvious answer is NO! He hasnt at any level.Even a Vicky Donor with an unknown face does 40+ but Players or KHJJS open so poorly that it becomes apparent that he is a non-actor who invites and incites absolutely no emotions from the audience.The audience has no feelings for him.He cannot set the screen ablaze and the audacity becomes more clear when his supporters label him as a rebellion. A rebellious actor snatches acceptance from viewers,from where I am judging,it is the audience that is snatching away his modesty each Friday.

          What irks me more that his next Bol Bachchan seems like an effort to cash on the surname.It is another fact that he has same status against Ajay that he had in Zameen,like that of a rookie! But even if it irks me,I am pretty sure that the accusations of “nepotism” on Big B becomes more clear when he appears for a special appearance in Bol Bachchan.And his supporters then term Rishi and Neetu in YRF next in a cameo as a scam! This dual standard irks me.What has Jr.B to his credit? A few hits and dozens of flops that keep piling up.And after each flop his supporters try pinning hope on the next which invariably not only fails but also makes a mockery of him.It pains to see some writers trying tpo decipher loopholes in few good films and call Rockstar a hot mess[it might have been a mess but way better than anything Jr.B has ever done or will do] and try praising insipid roles of Abhishek in Delhi 6 where his whole act look so much out of harmony with what the director intended to project. I still bet that D6 would have been at least critically acclaimed ,had ROM taken anyone but not Jr.B. He destroys the charisma around roles.He detructs the whole narrative of the character.He has no knowledge of how to emote.He fails miserably at putting up a face,infact at the end of Players in Metro,Kolkata which only had 6 people wtaching it,I heard a comment– “Ye film karan band kyun nahi kar deta”. I laughed but reflected that this might just be the time for him to pack his bags and sit back home!

          Like

          • rockstar Says:

            you are citing commercial part here …..commercially none of anurag kashyap’s movie have done any wonders like his brother for instant but he carries respect

            even none of kashyap’s movie outgrossed your so called vicky donor

            calling rockstar as one of the greatest ever is outright ridiculous

            Like

          • rockstar Says:

            and ya mr kashyap has time and again praised his innercircle that to coming from a man

            Like

          • rockstar Says:

            and ya mr kashyap has time and again praised his innercircle that to coming from a man who says he is fighting nepotism

            i like his fellow du colleague imtiaz ali( even didn’t mind him in black friday as actor) but the thing why this praise is limited to friends only

            don’t rate db as best director going around by any stretch of imagination…what different genre has he attempted or what versatility he has shown … is he capable enough to carry big canvas

            there are many questions which are unanswered

            Like

          • I admit I do not have access to enough trucks to drive through your comment!

            Like

          • I admit I do not have access to enough trucks to drive through your comment!

            ROFLMAO!

            And seriously, SRK’s fans should open their mouths elsewhere, where there’s some appreciation for drivel…the kind that SRK dishes out in his films!

            Like

          • The Graduate Says:

            Find thousand trucks to drive through my comment–your thoughts on Bachchan Junior will remains as hollow as the claim that Prosenjit is better than Uttam Kumar by many of his fans today!

            SRK with whatever he has dissed out has been accepted.If that be the parameter,then Abhishek’s fan should sit hiding in homes!

            Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            Lol @ trucks…
            Btw a bit unrelated — reminds me of a me on twitter
            I do NOT support it before some balan fan jump onto me (to physically outrage me lol)
            ” seeing Ferrari ki sawaaris item song -one wonders –where did this ‘truck’ come instead of the Ferrari” 😉

            Like

          • The Graduate Says:

            How will Satyam have trucks to drive through my comments–his own trucks keep driving through his own commentaries,especially on Jr.B!!!

            Like

          • What a stupid, cheap tweet Alex- and it’s so cowardly of you to keep hiding behind the ‘I didn’t write this’ disclaimer when you clearly post pieces/ tweets/ comments that align with your views.

            Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            There u go..I knew it…
            I can deal with hundred sumits or karankumars but not Amy’s.
            Amy-plz don’t molest me …
            Folks my ‘honour’ is at stake 😉
            Save me–oops, I need to run into Another thread into the arms of …. ( to escape further ‘abuse’)

            Like

          • LOL! Sorry to be so harsh- but if you have to keep taking such cheap shots at Vidya- atleast be honest enough to admit that this is YOUR opinion.

            BTW did you watch Prometheus- what did you think of it? Have you seen all the earlier Alien films?

            Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            Ha– will answer later…
            Currently am in Oldgolds ‘protection’ 😉
            And am learning about how stuff like ivf should not be resorted to …. ie nature is the best…

            Like

          • Ami, u r not going anywhere without answering these questions- 1)u were so excited abt Ishaqzaade so did u see it and if u did, where is the write-up(even a rambling note will do) 2) Whenever u r going to see Prometheus, u will write sumthing abt it. no escaping

            Like

          • I haven’t watched Ishaqzaade yet- it’s funny that you ask- I actually had tickets to watch it today but cancelled last minute to do something else instead. But I will watch it soon and write a piece about it for sure- whether it wiil be good enough for Satyam to put up here or not is another issue though! 😛

            Like

          • It would be a pleasure to put it up here.

            Like

          • sanjana Says:

            An interesting viewpoint. The argument has its merits.

            Like

      • hahaha…,luv yu anurag

        Like

      • bigbfan Says:

        “God cant make him act” Really a biased statement.Many critics didnt like his performance in Raavan,but praised him for his performances in movies like Guru,Sarkar raj,Sarkar,Phil milenge etc.Do you think all those critics who praised abhi are fools ? Also you should not expect great performances from the actors in commercial films.Salman khan never gave good performance in his entire career but still he is no.1 in bollywood.SRK doing same routine roles and Aamir ,ashay,hrithik all are average actors and their performances are not great .But you never targeted other actors why ?please explain

        Like

      • just saw the movie gaandu after anurag talked about it here.

        Like

  23. The fact is these schools like Doon and Scindia (and even Mayo), good or bad as they r (and accented),do foster a kind of a very independent and rebellious kind of an attitude in students. Now i am not saying that Anurag has got this ‘independent voice’ (something which i like abt him) necessarily due to his schooling but this can be a reason. because i know that lot of people from my school, who have made it big in their fields on their own terms, had this rebellious streak courtesy the school

    Like

  24. Alex adams Says:

    Anurag-
    In your opinion, who are the truly ‘world class’ actors, actresses in Bollywood right now–
    And yes-no ‘goodwill praise’ here-frank choices plz

    Like

  25. Alex adams Says:

    Anurag–instead of neighing the good worthwhile comments–
    Could u answer a truly worthwhile question–
    We all know that the real ‘crossover’ film is a mirage and maybe a myth…
    If it is to happen, what will/should it look like…

    Like

  26. anurag….did u really get a standing ovation in cannes for gow?that is what we have been hearing in the media…i m sure the 45 member contingent yu took to cannes must have stood up after the movie ended…but from what i m hearing by the end of gow most of the goras had left the hall…..and there was no such thing as a standing ovation…isnt it true?
    plus ur movie was never in the competitive section..like miss lovely…but u conveniently let the rumours float around in the media that it was competing in the official cannes.
    and pls answer me if gow was such a pathbreaking movie….why didnt it get any award in the three categories in which it competed at the newyork indian film festival?it lost to some unkonown entities from what i hear.
    why all this hype and lies are floating around the movie?why dont yu let the movie do the talking like db does

    Like

    • Anurag Kashyap Says:

      it was an audience of 800 but forget that.. see it and judge it for yourself..

      Like

    • @sumit: its not about winning and losing,

      important is our films and kashyap are bieng shown there. Thats my view.

      Rest is all what PR have to do they do. Its a commercial movie at the end of the day.

      Like

    • I follow Cannes closely and read multiple movies blogs. I don’t recall anyone of them mentioning a standing ovation for GOW. Also where are the glowing reviews that would generate from such a standing ovation?

      The Beast of the Southern Wild was also not in the official competition and was written about everywhere and did get a standing ovation from viewers.

      TBH Kashyap’s movie may get invited to screened at film festivals but they do not get rave reviews usually mixed reviews on average.

      Like

      • Alex adams Says:

        C’mon guys: dont take kashyaps class about a godamm ‘standing ovation ‘ or lack of it..
        The promos and songs itself speak for itself –and hopefully the film should also do so…

        Like

      • To be fair- both The Hollywood Reporter and Scree International did give GoW rave reviews. And the lack of a number of rave reviews could come not from the quality of the film- but the number of critics invited to attend the screening.

        Like

      • Standing ovation doesn’t mean anything. We (who live in west) know how polite the western (goras) are! They would give standing ovation to Kabhi Khusi Kabhi Gam too!!!!

        Like

        • even that girl in yellow boots and no smoking …that very favourable responses from the western media…..but they bombed….what the foreign mags say is certainly no indication for how good the movie is.what i dont like is the kind of publicity anurag is generating based on incomplete facts..and lies in the indian media for the sake of making the film hit…which is certainly not honest nor courageous….

          Like

  27. Alex adams Says:

    Anurag-pardon a personal question
    But why didn’t u ever give a break to your undoubtedly talented bro..
    Was it the different style n sensibility , I presume
    Ps– can’t u ever make a ‘normal’ film, if u know what I mean …

    Like

  28. anurag…sir pls dont think i m criticizing yu….i am only buttressing the fact….that by becoming a patron saint of all the wann be film makers….starting ur own production company….getting a group of chelas around u…..helping so much unsubstantiated and often baseless rumours circulate around ur movie projects…..thinking all the time about the market…..having so many movie maker friends to pander to……u r going in the direction of rgv..sooner or later

    Like

  29. Alex adams Says:

    In other words–u need to learn to say ‘ a firm no’ to certain cronies around yu (like sumit 🙂

    Like

  30. though i must confess both the amitabh and abhisekh bachchan suck…..they dont know the abc of acting…they r glorified idiots of a very high order….look at big bs over acting in the so called cult movies like agni path…black…last lear…..it looks as if the loser is reciting a poetry and not emoting as an actor must.he is irritatingly deliberate…in his acting craft/
    and abhisekh….hahaha…as anurag rightly said even god cant make him act.just look at his body language in fromt of camera…lazy lost….in bihari we have a brilliant word for it gur gobar naresh…..the king of cow dung

    Like

    • please control ur language man!

      Like

    • rockstar Says:

      anurag kashyap’s brother made a similar kindergarten movie called dabangg(modelled on 70’s style of masala) ……you can complain everytime as moviemaking itself is risky business and everyone want value for money but ya you can criticize others for lack of imagination

      Like

    • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      Achcha to aap Bihar se hai. Ab sari gutti sulaj gayi babua. Sumit Singh is related to Shatrughan Sinha. LOL sour grapes my friend. Kya shaadi pe nahi bulaya to Shatru ab itne neeche gir gaye hai, ke tujh jaise logon ko hire kar ke Bachchan saab ki burai karne lage blog pe. Shatru se sirf mera naam bol dena. Woh samaj jayega Amitabh Kya cheez hai.

      Like

    • “gur gobar naresh…..the king of cow dung”

      For those unfamiliar with the usage of earthy vernacular Hindi proverbs, a gur-gobar persona is someone who can transform gur into gobar: analogous to one who snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

      http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/2011/03/3g-dynasty-v-mitra.html

      Like

  31. Alex adams Says:

    Sumit — by proclaiming that amitabh doesn’t know the ‘abc’ of acting u maybe winning brownie points form some amitabh baiters, but u simply lose the platform to debate…period !
    Ps- u can’t just go on about any obscure nonsense beyond a point which is definitely not illegal but marks u out as an….

    Like

  32. the only movie in which amitabh is somewhat tolerable….is saudagar….in which he is paired opposite nutan…in the character of a gur maker…..and his acting clicks in it becoz he rarely speaks…he is portrayed as a brooding…selfish lusty man….in all the other movies we dont see amitabh at all…we see his ostentatious mannerisms….look at agni path….they way he speaks…it looks sooo damn funny…..is that some joke…..what i cn see as plain as a ..day..cant yu guys see?….there was a time when mainstream indian movie starring amitabh was made for the kindergarten audiences..and he became a superstar…but we r no more hooked to the foolish past now…..
    its becoz of fuckers like him…these superstars..like shahrukh and salman and akshay…and amitabh ..that bollywood has become a joke

    Like

    • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      If you dont find Amitabh effective than simply dont watch his films. Simple as that friend.

      Like

    • Alex adams Says:

      “”
      Hahaha
      Now can someone care to tell him why he can see ‘something as plain that everyone else can’t !!’….

      Like

  33. Sumit, i have been remaining shut abt lot of bullshit u keep on saying. If Bachchan can’t act, no one on this planet can act. I see u r very crazy that u deciphered some lines from GoW songs which Alex could not- Now u need to know that Alex/Satyam do not come from the Hindi belt- And trust me Alex can decipher things which u can’t even think abt. You think deciphering those lines is a big, lemme hear those songs and sumone as big a fool as me can do it.it’s very clear that u r intelligent but a loud mouth

    Like

  34. Alex adams Says:

    Sumit mate-wait till the end of this discussion… 😉

    Like

  35. There goes Satyam’s hope for a cleaner slate on this thread!

    Like

    • LOL…aren’t both these thread a bit psychedelic?!

      Like

      • More like schizophrenic!

        I’m all for some of the valuable contributors here, but I personally would prefer the “main event” of an ongoing discussion between Kashyap and Satyam. I guess we’ll have to wait for “A Debate with Anurag Kashyap – Part 9” for that to pan out!

        Like

        • omrocky786 Says:

          LOL agree with that GF and do think that Alex Adam’s long repost of his earlier comment was ill timed and then it became a free for all kind of deal…..

          Like

        • omrocky786 Says:

          I personally was refraining from commenting for the first 30 minutes or so but then gave in…..LOL

          Like

  36. Alex adams Says:

    Knock knock–is anurag kashyap dear still around??
    Was waiting since it doesn’t look nice with a ‘guest’ around…
    Hello….

    Like

  37. Satyam,GF, Saket, Ami, Alex and others- if u guys still have not seen it, definitely check out Kashyap’s debut feature “The Last Train To Mahakali”- it’s the quirkiest of quirky films and is available on youtube

    Like

    • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      Have seen Last train to Mahakali, nothing special here only the twist at the end which you can spot miles ahead. The only good thing about this was Kay Kay. He is such a brilliant performer. Did like the BG score here a bit. I had problems with his view point though. (mainly his camera angles). Something that I cant really pinpoint here. I would have to sit with you to actually show you what I am talking about. (not that skilled in writing to prove my point)

      Like

  38. Alex adams Says:

    Will watch that film later , minor….
    If kashyap has left–seems he has…

    Let’s give sumit his wish first
    He wanted to be a ‘spot boy’ and wanted to work for ‘free’
    Well, let’s give him that job now
    And don’t worry mate-we will pay u
    But
    U will have to work as a ‘spot girl’ ….ok?

    Like

  39. I feel that Kashyap is being a hypocrite. How come he is not calling out others like Salman Khan (and more power stars in the industry) for being a bad or I should say non actor and completely unprofessional on set? The man shows up on set when he feels like it, does not know his lines, changes the scripts to suit himself, gets directors and producers replaced yet Kashyap has nothing to say about it because he did his brother’s movie. Yeah he is Kashyap is real objective.

    As for deadwood, I feel the same way about Abhay Deol and Kalki. So I guess to each his own when it comes to judging acting skills.

    His claim that AB underpays his secretary may or may not be true. But compensation is not measured by just salary. Kashyap may pay his secretary more but does Kashyap offer a benefit package of paid vacation time, paid sick leave, health insurance, life insurance, etc which AB may offer. It is hard to judge unless you have full information.

    Oh well, what a blowhard as I suspected.

    Like

    • omrocky786 Says:

      agree with everything Tyler……. It was typical- arrey tumhe kuch nahee pata, humen sab pata hai…..

      Like

    • Tyler, agreed with everything apart from Abhay- i believe that the guy is talented as Abhi and this is being reflected in the films he is doing (i know Satyam thinks that Abhay is a non-actor but we have our disagreements).

      Like

      • Comparing abhisekh with Abhay, is an insult imo Saurabh, later is simply put the best thing in bollywood today, since cheese 😉 His movies that he has done, with directors like DB, IA, etc…

        he is versatile, good actor, and he has projects which are tight ly budgeted, instead of highly budget movies, i appreciate that in him.

        Like

        • Filmbuff Says:

          Good to see yet another Abhay supporter. I liked him in Lucky Oye Lucky, Ahista -2, Socha Na Tha. He even managed to do a decent job in a small role in a film like Ayesha which was a lame Sonam’s fashion show kind of movie. I believe he has done well in Manorama Six Feet Under, Honeymoon Travels and Road – i haven’t seen these movies yet. He chooses a variety of roles.

          Like

    • The Graduate Says:

      Kashyap is being a hypocrite or are we being myopic. Salman might frustrate his film prod unit but at the end he does deliver.How do you feel if ou frustrate someone on the set too and at the BO too? With Salman acting is never an issue,the man can survive just on his charisma[on-screen], acertain attribute that Abhishek will not have in this lifetime.Salman might be lazy,very lazy but once he is not,you see the results.How do you handle a man who does not even want to break the slumber he is in!!

      Abhay might be a non-actor but his films get appreciated,do moderately well at BO and he is accepted.Abhishek lacks that acceptance.So the comparisons die here.

      Like

      • Alex adams Says:

        ‘abhay might be a non-actor’-not really ..
        Infact have liked him in almost all his films
        Some now the guy seems to be steering clear of obvious ‘temptations’ in the choice of projects, which infact has worked in his favour
        And his act in dev d–found it better than srks act (barring the last half hour of srks)–though this comparison is absurd
        He was v good in OLLO and znmd

        Like

      • rockstar Says:

        salman might furstrate him but his outbursts come only when abhinav kashyap is ignored for dabangg or didn’t get dabang2

        Like

        • One should take statements from BW ppl ( stars, actors, directors) with Bucketful of Salt.. No one there is holy cow… Problem is one set of fans against another set.. at the end both set of fans are not totally right or wrong ..

          Like

          • haan…agree with you here Bliss. Kuch toh hua honga. We would never know! R U BW insider BTW? A critic or journo or writer or…?

            Like

  40. Alex adams Says:

    Sumit dear –how did ya get such a lovely pic
    Pray tell us your secret
    No wonder, u keep flashing it in every comment on anonymous blogs
    Man, u should’ve been the true star of ‘dhoom’
    Hritik wouldn’t have dominated like that

    Like

  41. why r u guys making personal accusations on me?if u have anything to contradict based on the merit or the lack of it of my arguments…pls do so…but why targeting me?every 1 has a rite to voice his opinion loud mouth or no loud mouth.i merely attacked alex in the beginning and that too becoz he was embarrassing me by his fan boy pirouettes and antics when anurag appeared.i merely gave him a sane advice to get a hold over himselg
    when i point my finger to the moon ..look at the moon..dont bite the finger…attack my arguments dont attack me

    Like

    • Alex adams Says:

      Mind your ‘finger’ mate — they are trying to go in objectionable spaces behind ourselves
      And don’t angry me !!!
      🙂

      Like

  42. Alex adams Says:

    What irked me a bit was this somewhat ‘planting’ of an obvious unabashed diehard crony like sumit along with him !!!
    Who seemed to be asking him ‘uncomfortable’ questions….
    Hahaha
    And questions like
    Who is better x or y
    Is the ass of x is better for trying out the new panty range of y and so on…
    Straight out kjos ‘rapid fire!’ –the guy they love to hate 🙂
    What irony…

    Like

  43. is the pirouetting fanboy alex hurt becoz anurag replied to all my criticisms…but did not deign to reply to any of his paeans?

    Like

  44. Alex adams Says:

    Will say yes only if u agree to be our ‘spot girl’ 🙂
    And also admit that u were ‘planted’ in this discussion wherein with your flashing kashyap in our profile, even your uncomfortable questions were expectedly not that inconvenient …
    Ps–had real nice fun ….with kashyap and now with u 😉

    Like

  45. Sumit, mate sorry for being harsh on u. it’s evident that u know abt cinema and poetry (much more than me) etc and possess a sharp and intelligent brain but by continuosly remarking abt Alex u r not doing urself favours. If u don’t like Alex’s comments, don’t indulge in a conversation with him. And Alex, c’mon stop teasing Sumit

    Like

  46. Alex adams Says:

    Kashyap admittedly has been following this blog
    He perhaps didn’t wish to get into a ‘public wrangle’ with just a ‘fan’
    And maybe knows a bit about my ‘past dealings’ ( though this is as far fetched as his allegation on abhishreks ‘misbehaviour’—
    Even abishreks worst critics wont blame him for that !!
    Ps- to clarify, I’m not his ‘fan’ (unlike u)

    Like

  47. Zizek has this wonderful line about philosophers where he says that for all the myth about philosophical dialog and so on since Platonic times there has never really been one because philosophers systematically and persistently keep misreading each other as a means to develop their own ideas! So perhaps the whole debate thing is always a bit of a pipe-dream. One cannot hope to do better than the thinkers!

    I appreciate Kashyap’s gesture very much that he actually came here and took part in things as much as he could. Most wouldn’t bother or wouldn’t particularly care. He’s clearly interested enough in the criticisms. However the ‘courage’ to be honest and true to a logic (whatever one’s preference might be in terms of one’s thinking) is a much more difficult path than one imagines it to be. And one cannot quite get out of it by pretending one has no organized way of thinking about these things. words mean something.

    what happens is that we all believe in certain things but we never quite test our assumptions about those things and therefore we think we can defend those positions but we can only do so exactly in the ways we frame them. In other words given a certain frame one has no problem but if the frame is de-stabilized everything is different. This isn’t just about Kashyap but about many here as well (and elsewhere). we keep arguing about stuff but leaving aside inherent contradictions there are ideas, even at a banal level, that are taken as self-evident. And this is where the lack of a critical culture not just in terms of cinema but also in a much more general sense is often missed. This is reflected at every ‘node’ of popular discourse.

    Like

    • Yes, AK’s appearance was a nice gesture. He occupies an important, if not very important, presence in contemporary Bollywood. So props to you, Satyam, for having initiated such a debate first of all.

      I wouldn’t like to comment on the claims that AK has made during the course of this debate simply because I can’t independently verify them. But I do believe him when he says that he personally “seeks” out artists whom he admires. His “enthusiasm,” for want of a better word, reveals that he would like to remain grounded.

      As for criticism of his films, I’d suggest AK himself read some of the fine reviews here…and compare the quality of writing that I simply can’t find elsewhere. Put another way, some of the critical pieces on this blog will keep Kashyap more “grounded”. At least in my view…

      Like

      • thank you very much Saket.. those are kind words.. I too don’t disbelieve Kashyap when he says those things.

        On the factual claims he’s not unique. There is always the cliched boast of the insider (not Kashyap but just anyone), that he or she knows how things works and so on. Usually what it amounts to is gossip. But even when correct it’s not very relevant. There is a larger frame in play. So for example the list of ‘special circumstances’ listed for Abhishek are the staple of political and even other sorts of artistic discussions. The key giveaway to any such framing is always that from point to point it remains entirely inconsistent and even if so it relies on a ‘special case’ theory in every instance. It’s not always a cynical thing. people believe this stuff. The problem is a rather elementary one. The ‘reality’ of a situation is quite often not the sum of its parts so that if you know every detail you know what’s going on. Partly because there are more transcendent truths and some of the details that one thinks one is discovering already assume the existence of those greater truths.

        This is the problem with the insider’s worldview. He (or she) is totally enframed by the very system he thinks he can step out of and take a bird’s eye view on.

        But in any case this borrowed kettle logic is a rather well-known paradigm. Zizek described how it worked with the Iraq war for example. So one shouldn’t scoff at it. It’s a very effective tool to argue with. Not that easy to spot.

        Like

    • This is one of your most valuable comments here.

      I’d second your appreciation for Kashyap’s appearance here. Optimistically, I think it’s quite an extraordinary gesture on his part because despite some of what he says here the appearance itself suggests that he is interested in precisely this kind of discourse– precisely this kind of environment that is conducive to the type of critical culture and writing on film that is almost entirely absent from Hindi films.

      Like

      • agreed..

        which is why as I said somewhere I wouldn’t have bothered with most others. And even with the points I made I think I gave him more credit than his words deserve taken literally. So on LAK for example I think being dishonest is better than being clueless!

        Like

  48. Alex adams Says:

    Agree Satyam
    Though the initial ‘gesture’ itself is laudable, the ‘objective’ seemed to be a bit different…
    In his crony sumits words– ” this was an attempt to influence the educated bloggers who are susceptible to his type of films and make them his fans” or something like that …
    Heck, even kashyap will be embarrassed to read this sort of interpretation…

    Like

    • yeah all that is silly season.

      Do think that this debate never really was about the things I talked about initially. It’s not about one or the other example. When we say certain things we ask to be held up to higher standards. when we are then questioned we cannot play what I call the Israel game (they talk about being the only democracy in the Mideast etc, the moment you question them about their practices in certain areas they say ‘look at Saudi Arabia’) which is changing the standard at different ends of the debate. When Hrithikesh Mukherjee makes a mediocre film it’s of course one by his standards and not in absolute terms. But one also couldn’t defend him saying ‘he’s still better than David Dhawan.. or whoever’. It’s like the point I often make here and on Bachchan’s blog when people say that even on a weak day he’s still doing better than everyone else. Yes true but my standard of measurement for him precisely isn’t ‘everyone else’ but his own miraculous heights!

      Similarly one cannot put oneself up on a pedestal and be that kind of polemicist only to say when quizzed ‘I never saw myself that way’. As if these other things just happen unconsciously. The responsibility is greater for public figures because their statements have the largest impact but really it’s true for everyone.

      And here again since Abhishek is inevitably part of the mix I’ve been saying for years that I don’t particularly care if someone thinks nothing of Abhishek as actor or star. But there has to be a certain consistency to one’s arguments. So for example when the claim is made as it often is that someone else would have done better in his flops and so on we never say those things about the flops of other stars, commercial or critical. We introduce these special arguments in his case. With no other star does this happen. And the evidence is so obviously and dramatically opposed to such claims. And it is a whole series of such special cases that is often applied to him in various ways. By the way Kashyap proved by point even here. So if one goes by what he says no one in Bollywood is as despicable a specimen in most ways as he is. Yet how easily he passed over John Abraham. Oh I wasn’t allowed to make a film and so on. He took a pay cut. As if John Abraham had that many more appealing options! And if one is that devoted to principle why compromise at all?! And if one allows oneself the luxury of compromise why not the same to others?!

      But again it’s not about Abhishek. It’s also not about DB or what have you. It’s about a framing which is fundamentally dishonest because it relies on a certain selection process. Won’t repeat the comments I’ve made except to say that it is always easy to talk about the ways in which others sell out or don’t retain their core even as one never really has the introspection to examine one’s own lapses in the same way. suspected this anyway.

      Like

      • sanjana Says:

        I think the argument is going in circles. Forget Abraham and Abhishek. If we take Jeetendra’s example, he never was considered to be a great actor. But he got hiis own audience and he cleverly took Padmalaya , Dasari, Sridevi, Jayaprada into his circle and churned out hits. And he was extremely dedicated though has little talent. There are so many ways to become successful if only one remains focussed.

        Like

      • “As if John Abraham had that many more appealing options!…”
        And as if Anuraag (then a newbie) had options! Somewhere Dhulia too complained about stars and their starry ways. For the director, the actor is just a tool for communicating their idea..so Irrfan khan slugs out in valleys of chambal in 50 degrees where as another “star” would demand a 5 star hotel!

        Like

  49. oldgold Says:

    @Anurag Kashyap
    I’m not interested in your films because they are not of my taste, but was reading the comments and your response for the sake of curiosity.
    What does ABsr’s secretary has to do with your films? Or for that matter anything about them?
    Discussing their personal lives on a blog where you are a guest is just not done.
    Anyway it would be more factual if you were to discuss your own personal affairs, and give us the juicy details, and tell us bout your own integrity and fairness, because paying your secretary more than ABsr doesn’t prove anything.

    Like

    • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      OG completely agree with you. As I mentioned somewhere above. Doesn’t matter what Jr has done or not done in the past. I was implying towards his personal life. What matters is if you think he is talentless and cant emote than take it upon yourself and prove it wrong if you are a genuinely brave director? And do what Ratnam, Mehra or Sippy couldn’t do. Personal life is one thing and the matter at hand is another. In that case Elvis or Michael Jackson would be horrible performers if we look deep in their personal lives and take that into consideration in measuring their talents.

      Like

  50. oldgold Says:

    satyam please delete my comment if you feel it shouldn’t be written here.

    Like

  51. Alex adams Says:

    Agree with u Oldgold (even without reading the comment) 🙂
    Ps- give me ‘shelter’

    Like

  52. Alex adams Says:

    Ps- initially wanted to ask kashyap about the ‘juicy details’ about the casting of dev d and the girl with yellow bo..s but I resisted– wasn’t in good taste…

    Like

    • Alex adams Says:

      On that ‘natural better than ivf’ note–
      Thanx for the entertainment , anurag kashyap …
      And for having the guts to actually come here ad share your thoughts
      Again-best wishes for your upcoming ‘release’
      Love the Bihari- calyspo mix –just got stuck in my min
      Lemme learn more from oldgold

      Gud nite folks
      Ps-who is this actress in this song–hmm..

      Like

  53. few notes.
    He came as promised. He engaged with everyone. He took the criticism (specifically on his spouse) on his chin sportingly and didn’t get emotional. He said what he felt like (be it on junior or senior or state of cinema) in a gutsy way. Do admire him for some of these gestures that he didn’t have to. Some of it takes a LOT of courage to say…must say that!

    Like

    • Agreed! I thought that this was exceedingly sporting of him and he was unerring polite to everybody commenting regardless of how insulting/ puerile they were being. My respect for him has definitely increased after reading this thread- even if I don’t agree with most of his opinions expressed here.

      Like

    • These days, I keep on nodding in agreement with you more often than not. Guess this must be the mango season 😛

      Like

    • What was gutsy about what Kashyap said? Did he name names? He was as puerile as some of the people commenting here and when backed into a corner resorted to making personal comments on junior and senior bachchan.

      Anyone can say I heard such and such but back it up by saying who told you so – now that would take guts. I can say I heard Kashyap likes to sleep with his female actresses from people in the industry. That does not make my statement true or false unless I said I heard from someone reputable without an agenda.

      I do commend him for coming here but he did not change my opinion of him as someone who has become as corrupted as the people and system he disses.

      Like

      • I never said that he was gutsy- I said that he was sporting- those are two different things. You might not have changed your opinion of him after reading these posts- but I did and so I said so-I never insisted that you should change your opinion as well.

        I can see why you would find his comments on Bachchan to be in bad taste- it’s a reasonable enough reaction. But I I found some of the comments on this thread that were addressed to him to be more offensive that anything that he said about the Bachchans- and yet he never reacted arrogantly or rudely- I do not think I could have done the same had I been in his place- so I appreicate that about him.

        Like

        • Seriously Ami, u r right. he even adressed me without being impolite. He is quite a nice guy (i hope changes his opinions about Bachchans- that’s my only grouse with him)

          Like

        • I am not as much of a stoic about some of his opinions for the reasons I’ve mentioned but I’m not with Tyler on this either. But there is no doubt that the very fact he appeared here and was willing to take stuff head-on when he knew what I’d been saying about him even earlier means something. But to be honest if I didn’t have this respect for him I wouldn’t have written to him. I know he’s kind of guy who likes to engage and who doesn’t take stuff personally, at least to the extent its humanly possible. I wouldn’t be wasting time writing to Karan Johar! So there is definitely a certain generosity he’s exhibited in this sense (not because he came ‘here’ but that he would be willing to go any place at all) but the actual merits of the response are a different thing altogether though I am not entirely surprised.

          But again this is an unequal debate in the sense that I can say anything and there’s no cost to it whereas with him there is. no matter how brazen he can be in some respects he still can’t say ‘anything’. And actually what he said about Abhishek he could only say about Abhishek! There are consequences in the industry for doing this stuff to others! You will never hear a word out of him about any other star no matter how big or small. Because there are certain things the Bachchans won’t do. everyone knows this in the industry. And this is an argument I’ve long had with Bachchan at length. Nonetheless and irrespective of my opinion on this stuff I do give him credit for doing this.

          Like

        • Satyam ‏@Satyamk

          @ankash1009 thanks for trading insults with me! enjoyed it!

          Like

      • If being “corrupt” results in films that he has directed so far, I’d not be too worried.

        More importantly, it’s not the man that needs to be dissected. It’s his films. His brand of cinema, to be precise.

        I hope that he makes more films; produces more films because more than the man behind the product, I’m interested in the product. The latter tells me all that I need to know about the man.

        Like

    • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      Agreed Di.

      Like

  54. Firstly i thank Satyam that solely bcos of him, we got to interact with Kashyap (i wish satyam could get Bachchan here, that would be amazing). And Anurag, just by showing courage to come here, has won back some of my respect, which i had lost after he had accused Bachchan. Hats-off to u Mr. Kashyap

    Like

  55. Satyam and Saket, just a small grouse here. as false and baseless some of Graduate’s comments may be, i do not think he deserved such harsh replies from 2 sensible people like u. Atleast he tries to put across his points and initiate a conversation.What do people like Jiggy do-they not only make stupid comments and cause unnecessary impediments in any fruitful discussions but are not even entertaining while doing so-so if u guys r harsh on Graduate,Jiggy deserves much harsher treatment(just read his posts)

    Like

    • I wasn’t being harsh, just gently sarcastic! On the earlier Aamir stuff I was much stronger, don’t think there’s anything wrong with this.

      I agree on the Jiggy bit but he hardly puts up more than a line or two. If he was more prolific I’d take a different view of things.

      Like

    • In my defense, I’ve been extremely harsh with Jiggy too! At least on one occassion.

      The other thing is, ‘The Graduate’ is not interested in a conversation. If he is truly interested, he’s done a great job in hiding his intentions thus far…especially with the combative tone, not to mention the extremely biased opinions, that he keeps parading from time to time.

      Saurabh, you should trust me with enough intelligence to distinguish between an argument and a fanboy rant. The latter is also not problematic, unless it’s given a garb of an “intellectual” discussion.

      Like

  56. Saket, i obviously agree with every word of what u r saying (esp on ur last part). But atleast Graduate uses some amount of intelligence even while acting as a partisan and putting forth some baseless arguements- C’mon Saket, he is just not same as Jiggy. Jiggy keeps making personal remarks targetting Satyam. And just the week back he did the same with u. Graduate is far more intelligent than Jiggy- this guy is pissing me off

    Like

  57. I will say this and this is something that has been bothering me a bit since yesterday. I was questioning Kashyap’s narcissism in certain respects but perhaps I should also examine my own. All these debates, mostly with the Bachchans, but occasionally with someone else (two long missives to Javed Akhtar, then this whole episode with Kashyap) are of course sincere from my side and these are points that I make in very many contexts on and off-line in lots of others situations as well. At the same time one can run the danger of becoming ‘bully to celebrity’ if I can put it as crudely as this. First off the contest is always unequal. For various obvious reasons the public figure no matter how combative otherwise has to be somewhat restrained beyond a point. There is a cost to what he or she says while I incur none in this context. But it’s also narcissistic to the degree that one often finds oneself in the position of ‘correcting’ the public figure in some matter or the other. All of this is not unjustified on its own because the value of a debate does not depend on who’s making it on either side (even if we are always culturally attuned to take these things into account). Bachchan has certainly said this more than once with the greatest magnanimity. Nonetheless one cannot place oneself, conveniently in the psychologically neutral zone where there is not ‘pleasure’ to be had from such engagements leaving aside the merits or demerits thereof. In my defense I should say that (as many people know from their online interactions with me) I tend to be very passionate about all kinds of debates anyway. So it’s not that I’m turning it on just with ‘famous people’. In fact my problem is precisely the opposite — that I perhaps don’t moderate things appropriately in these other situations. And it’s obviously a great credit to whoever is willing to put up with this and remain interested in it. A great credit then to the Bachchans before all(who’ve suffered a lot more of me for infinitely longer!) but also to Kashyap for this current episode with whom I obviously don’t agree on too much! We’ve exchanged insults but his taking them in good stride means far more than my doing the same. I would never be foolish enough to believe otherwise! Ultimately there’s no a solution or an answer to what I am saying because I’m not likely to ‘slow down’ (!) but I thought it worthwhile to identify my own narcissistic vulnerabilities in this regard.

    Like

  58. What a comment Satyam. Not everyone owns-up this kind of stuff like u do. from the discussions i have had with u, i have learned how to be euphemistic. for example at times even when u don’t like a star/film at all, u smartly say- “I am not a fan of him/it either” …LOL – that’s called being a gentleman

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  59. As far as AK’s responses here go, I consider him a guest and appreciate the fact that he volunteered to come here and engage
    I would not for a moment doubt his sincerity even when he talks about the Bachchans even if I KNOW that he is mistaken.

    As for the likes of Santa Singh and the Piggy, one can always hope that the good Lord will be kinder to them in their next birth.

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  60. Bhalo_Manush Says:

    It was wonderful to read AK’s comments here and thanks to Satyam for initiating such a debate.

    Always thought Abhi must be trying hard but he is failing coz he is not talented …par sach toh kuchh aur nikla…

    I agree with AK’s most of the points here regarding his support for movies like Rockstar. Even I had also the same opinion that due to his friendship with Imtiaz Ali he praised the movie.

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  61. A Big thanks to Anurag Kashyap for visiting this blog. A feather in the cap for you Satyam!
    Not sure if he will re-visit, but do hope he reads one question from me: Your film Black Friday is a raw hard hitting piece of art, with such a gripping narrative. We know that the events and characters in it are all real. Just wondering if you faced threats from the said characters while making this film, and how did you manage to escape such potential mortal threats.
    Btw, the only place where I could see this movie totally uncensored is on YouTube, only in the US. Every DVD I ever saw was censored in some form. As long as it stays in its unvarnished form on YouTube, consider it as a great gift to all Indians, and to all victims of terrorism. Our salute to you for having the courage to get this done.

    Like

    • Yes, Anurag kashyap coming here and discussing cinema is heart-whelming. Much appreciable. I hope he will continue participation for one more day at least.

      Like

  62. sanjana Says:

    It is gracious and sportive on AK’s part to come here and interact. Afterall he is quite a big name and he is still a force to reckon with his own set of admirers.
    I dont go for these violent and action packed films which are now ruling commercially and otherwise also. It is for men. And also for women who can stomach. Compared to these violent folms, Godfather series, seems to be the most non violent!

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  63. @Anurag Kashyap

    I fully understand your views on Abhishek Bachchan, even myself as fan of Sr B and supporter of Abhishek many times disappointed by Jr B inconsistencies and taking things for granted. To be honest i wrote him off after his first movie “Refugee”, And after 2-3 flops, i thought he will quit now. But seeing him coming in movies one after another was little shock .. though i didn’t see any of his initial movies till Shararat. It was delayed movie and first time i realized he is not bad at all, may be it was my all time high expectations that i completely dismissed him after refugee. Its only after Run and Yuva, my perception about him changed. Though admittedly he is not consistent as an actor. He has given outstanding to bad moments in same movie. Regardless of boxoffice, i liked him in Shararat, Rann, Yuva, Bluffmaster, Guru, JBJ, DIstana and DMD. He was outright bad in Drona and many initial movies. And was mediocre in many stuffs like Sarkar series, Dus, KHJJS etc.

    Anyways, more or less i agree with you on Abhishek, with such high profile flops, he deserves this criticism.

    But one thing for which i am completely in non agreement with you is “Your accusation on Sr B about Chittagong being delayed”. As i said in my above comment, even a blatant truth without context is as worthless as blatant lie. Let me put few bullet points to explain :

    * Lets assume Big B had called Sunil Bohra (Though both denied along with director of movie).

    * Without context, this call looks like Big B trying to push back the release of Chittagong.

    * But is there no possibility that he called Sunil Bohra just to discuss the matter as two movies on same subject clashing is definitely not good an idea ? And i don’t think calling someone for discussing any critical issue is bad at all.

    * Its almost 1.5 years since KHJJS released, who is stopping you to release Chittagong since so long ? This is very much clear that your movie was not complete at all and it had no buyers as well.

    * Should i assume you just try to publicize your movie on shoulder of 70 year old senior actor ? I can bet no one would have any idea about Chittagong movie if you have not posted your accusation on facebook. But now atleast few hundreds are aware about this movie.

    * My above point is just an assumption and can be as true as your own accusation to Sr. B. Only difference between my assumption and yours one is that i am talking in context.

    Thanks Anurag for taking time to read this blog and comments, i hope you take every one’s opinion with open heart and mind. And once again i much appreciate you for coming here and discussing matters.

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  64. Filmbuff Says:

    Thank you Satyam and Anurag Kashyap for an interesting exchange although not a very fulfilling one. Like GF (yes i do tend to agree with his views which may surprise Satyam & Co) I was hoping for a Satyam/Anurag debate on the issues being discussed. Perhaps we regular contributiors could have helped by being patient by posting comments / posing questions at the end of their dialogue.

    Obviously being part of the film industry, Anurag could have only gone to a certain extent – none of us would like to put our job in jeopardy in the real world. I personally feel that had some personalities not been named, the discussion could have been more fruitful. But then a debate would be prosaic without some hearted exchange or live examples. At the end of the day there is no doubt that we respect film makers like AK for producing / directing interesing films like Udaan (I haven’t seen other Kashyap films like BF/Gulaal/GIYB etc).

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  65. it was all a publicity gimmick.he criticized abhisekh so that the pres wud pick it up and publish it..and the controversy will give publicity to his upcoming movie

    Like

    • Filmbuff Says:

      I don’t get your point. In what way is this connected to the debate between Satyam and Anurag on this blog? I don’t think this post on this blog is in anyway going to create any publicity for his upcoming movie.

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      • oldgold Says:

        That’s exactly the point, the only comment he made was about the Bacchans, the rest was not very informative. I don’t see any reason for it. I thinkeveryone here wanted to hear other things about him and his films rather than his opinion about the Bachchans.

        Like

        • tonymontana Says:

          Thats what happens when instead of grabbing the opportunity to have more meaningful discussions about cinema, more than anything else he is cornered and asked why he doesnt like Abhishek. (!)

          Like

          • Not sure if you’re referring to my original comments that started all of this but I certainly didn’t corner him. Abhishek is the only actor he’s referred to over the years in his statements. It’s a bit bizarre when in the entire industry you can find no one else to support your claims of industry nepotism or bad acting or industry ethics or whatever the complaint is. So he himself has focused on Abhishek. But forget Abhishek note what he’s saying about the directors in question here. That they’re either making mediocre films or they don’t know Hindi. Is this even serious?! Why? Because he can’t quite explain Abhishek in all these films without resorting to what I’d call ‘loony’ theories. But in any case he’s obsessed with Abhishek for the longest time. had he talked about other actors as well I wouldn’t have bothered.

            Note how when one is cornered though suddenly there all sorts of excuses. Take the No Smoking example. So John Abraham is an ‘average’ actor? Doubt even his mother thinks that! Or he had to cast John Abraham because he was having problems making the film? But what about the problems others have? One always thinks one’s compromises are completely justified while those of others are indefensible. So the guy making an 80 crore film also has to deal with big pressures. And you can’t tell him to make a 10 crore film because he’s about making big commercial films! The pressures and compromises just change! This is why one should not have absolutist positions, otherwise one runs into dead-ends very soon.

            On a similar note this is what I like sometimes about important Hollywood talents. They often don’t have hangups. Take Nolan. He’s done something like Memento but he’s very happy to do the Dark Knight blockbusters too. He remains true to his skill set and concerns either way. Of course in Hollywood too many interesting directors are seduced by the big paycheck and ruined. My point just is that no one treats this kind of opportunity as an insult. I think for example Kashyap could make a wonderful film on a somewhat bigger budget. If he could just ‘relax’ a bit! The ironic thing here is that I’ve been pushing this idea on and off for years not because I think less of him but because I think more of him! And as a pragmatic measure he would enable other filmmakers like himself far more easily if he did so. This would serve his overall Bollywood project much better than saying completely implausible and/or incoherent stuff about a film like LAK.

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          • I agree with Tony completely- and I do not think that he was referring to your comments at all Satyam- you obviously used Abhishek as an example because you think that he illustrates whatever extremely well-thought out points you were trying to make. Whatever else anyone accuses you of- not attempting to engage in intelligent, meaningful debate is not one of your flaws! 😛

            But I did feel like a few people were being needlessly insulting/ provocative towards Kashyap and simply using Bachchan as a shield to justify their behaviour.

            Like

          • tonymontana Says:

            Satyam,

            I certainly wouldnt club your comments with the rest. Whatever you discussed and the pertinent points you brought about – I am just not in a position to judge that.. Coz I know whatever you say /write it is the result of acute understanding of the medium as well as healthy discussions. Thats exactly what I pointed towards in my first comment on this thread My comment was directed towards what followed afterwards, when the only thing we had on this blog by the likes of Sumit was pointless arguments regarding the Bachchans. I also agree that even Anurag should’ve somewhat refrained from making personal remarks against the Bachchans but then I can also understand his situation.

            Like

          • I was certainly not one of those who made any undesirable comment. i was shut during the entire discourse

            Like

          • tonymontana Says:

            didnt mean you either

            Like

  66. by that token i dont mean that abhisherk or their likes shud not be criticized,they must be.i was merely talking about the motivation of anurag in coming to this blog

    Like

    • Filmbuff Says:

      I don’t think that was Anurag’s motivation. From his tweets one can gather that he has been visiting Satyam’s blog before and was interested in engaging in a discussion with Satyam.

      Like

      • oldgold Says:

        Then why didn’t he?

        Like

        • Filmbuff Says:

          Your guess is as good as mine! Like all the others I was looking forward to a good discussion bet him and Satyam on his films and other films too minus the personalities and personal opinions on stars per se

          Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            Hmm..anurag–see what folks are saying!!
            Btw Filmbuff –do u love anurag kashyap films…
            And who are your favourite stars /films…

            Like

  67. @satyam-

    It has always been a pleasure to know you and visit this blog, and yesterday indeed was a great occassion, i dont think i am qualified enough for the discussion you guys can make , but i loved reading this thread.

    Kudos to Kashyap for cming, my respect for him has only increased, as i feel it takes courage on blog and come out and say against Big B, and family, whether true or false is entirely different matter.

    And satyam indeed there were some great comments, and i truly appreciate it, its always educational to read them.

    and special mention to saket, di, ami, alex, saurabh, its incredible the way you discuss and comment on this blog, i regret not being able to participate actually, because of work, but I am so happy for satyamshot.

    (y)

    Like

    • Thanks so much Rooney, so gracious of you but do not club the name of a mere mortal like me alongwith the names of Saket, Ami and Alex- i don’t stand anywhere near them. They, and probably every other blogger here, knows much more abt stuff than me- i am being truthful here. I just come here to learn from all these enlightened minds

      Like

    • Tony, u missed it man! where were u ?! Kashyap threw me 1st in the line of his fire (u must have seen his response)…LOL. and i agree, other people should not have interfered so much in the debate proper (speaking for myself, when kashyap came and till the time he was here, i did not put a single comment). Anyway big thanks to Kashyap and Satyam. btw Kashyap may just come today also so u still have a chance

      Like

    • thanks Rooney.

      Like

    • Alex adams Says:

      Thanx Rooney
      U are a true gentleman… 🙂

      Like

  68. tonymontana Says:

    I missed the party. And I missed a lot of enlightening stuff that was going on there. Wish I was there to ask a couple of questions to Anurag Kashyap.

    Mostly it was a healthy debate with Anurag and Satyam and the like but some unnecessary muck thrown in between by others somewhat diluted the impact.

    Btw do appreciate Anurag’s honest opinions, which may or may not be true. Wish him luck for GOW

    Like

  69. Alex adams Says:

    Errrrmm
    Anurag k-how bout some fun today as well..
    Satyam-can u tweet him or something ( im deliberately temporarily off FB, twitter currently for vouluntary reasons..)
    Or where’s his crony oops pal sumit–give anurag a text, will ya 🙂
    Let’s get out beer etc etc ready..
    Jokin-will welcome him with open arms..
    Not in mood for mischief (till now) 🙂

    Like

  70. Alex adams Says:

    Just to add- anurag kashyap mate–
    My respect for u has gone up by the ‘restraint’ u showed
    Guess as a celebrity, one has to a bit ‘responsible’…
    but
    His defence of ‘rockstar’ showed his class…
    Now this is a film that’s much better than it got credit for both critically and commercially…
    Not everyone has to agree with me, but glad anurag k felt it..
    O naadaan parinde (kashyap)
    Ghar AA ja na 😉

    Like

  71. Alex adams Says:

    Wow- what a Tarantino-esque crisp one liner
    Satyam, where’s your jeans, hat
    And yes, the ‘gun’ (as in ‘hunter’ song)
    Ps–wasn’t asking u but the crony, oops spot girl ooops sumit who claims to receive his texts etc
    Ps2–sumit-don’t mind will ya-just playing with ya … 🙂

    Like

  72. alex adams Says:

    ok–anurag –another pat on the back for u –if u do return or secretly read this…
    the hunter song is much more than the ‘double entrende’-who better to appreciate it..
    but was curious who the actress in it…
    well done , my boy–u seem to have learnt from your mate imtiaz ali…

    folks–unvieing anurags discvery (on his behalf and by his assumed permission)—
    huma qureshi—as per google
    didnt know ‘village girls’ in india are like this.. a tourism trip may be good then. anyhow…

    looking for a link…
    ps–reminds me somewhat of a nf …

    Like

    • She looks absolutely nothing like Nargis-

      http://www.pinkvilla.com/node/217373

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        • Alex adams Says:

          Hmm thanx amy–well, not a question of just looks ..
          It’s about a ‘resonance’ , a ‘psychic connect’ –difficulty to explain 😉

          Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            Btw amy – do you know anything about ‘psychic connect’
            Ps-Talking about slightly ‘deeper’ planes than the botox or ‘implants’ or ‘6-packs’ which were probably being discussed in some other threads 🙂

            Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          Guess that got a bit ‘heavy’ for Amy haha
          Don’t wanna ‘corrupt’ nice little cute gals
          Don’t strain your mind….
          Off to work for a bit on the other window 🙂

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      • hmmm..wonder what Kalki would think…wonder why the heroines “stick” to their bosses like some arm candy!!!

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        • oldgold Says:

          She did the same before her 😉

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          • C’mon- I don’t think that he is the casting couch type. And I’m sure that Kalki understands the need for these red carpet poses for the cameras in the same way that he understands she needs to do certain intimate scenes with her male co-stars.

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          • oldgold Says:

            It’s the arm, not the couch.

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          • OG- LOL! 🙂

            Like

          • “And I’m sure that Kalki understands the need for these red carpet poses for the cameras..”
            Well, if he was my husband, I wouldn’t like it one bit! Doing it in movie (thats one’s job) and on red carpet is different. Anyhow I can’t imagine me hugging my boss’s arm like that! If it is not ok in one profession why should it be ok in another profession? Kuch professionalism hona chahiyay naa? Then same heroine cry “abuse” and “couch” and lack of opportunities in cinema from roof tops.
            @OG: lolz 😉

            Like

          • “casting couch type”
            Its a professional hazard. You are a hot director and heroines throw themselves at your feet. You are after all just a man. What to do? I was watching manmohan desai’s documentary and how Jaya P. was giggling and all over him! M.D. then lovingly takes the flying hair from her face…and she is all blushy, happy!

            Like

  73. alex adams Says:

    huma qureshi

    curls

    ps–anurag—atleast note the free publicity im dping for u

    Like

    • alex adams Says:

      cmon girls–its only the ‘hand’ ….not…lol
      lets spare poor anurag–he may get into trouble @ home if kalki reads this 🙂
      ps–anurag –well done mate–carry on—im with u
      btw in the pic with 4-5 gals around u—u seem tobe SO happy–never seen u smile more than that…. 🙂

      Like

  74. “You are after all just a man. What to do? ”

    LOL! You think that none of these directors come on to actresses and demand sexual favours? It’s not like all these men are totally innocent and only the women are throwing themselves at the men. The women are also after all just women trying to make their way in an industry that is extremely competitive and often very sleazy.

    I don’t know about Bollywood but I do know that with Kollywood almost all actresses are cast that way unless they are the daughter of somebody famous. It’s something that they have to do to make it big in the industry and it’s an open secret.

    But I doubt that there is such an atmosphere on Anurag’s productions- he doesn’t seem like that sort of a guy.

    Like

    • I understand that Ami. That CC exists. I was trying to throw some light on the reverse situation too where the director could be *victimised*. But I am sure this is one reason our Lexy is trying to get into movie making business.

      Like

    • Yes I’m not saying that the women are completely innocent either- after all why would they work with certain directors and producers knowing how sleazy they can be? But this doesn’t means that the men are being helplessly seduced by the women. There is an imbalance of power- and the director/ producer/ big hero can easily misuse it to exploit some starlet.

      Like

    • @ami: all the real talented ones work in theater…lolz…otherwise you need a camp/family/godfather, hollywood ya bollywood. People like Gwynett paltrow, Natalie portman etc know insiders. True talent would seek good (non exploitative) director and work for them for free even.

      Like

  75. alex adams Says:

    actually, to be faiir, this girl huma looks quite innocent for this…perhaps she is naive…

    Like

    • ‘looks quite innocent for this’

      Inocent for what? She is just holding his arm! 😛 Don’t think that there anything else to it.

      Like

      • [edited]…LOL

        Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          Oops–that bit is censored mate minor lol—control yourself…
          Let’s not go to that extent..
          Anurags our guest…I know he is secretly reading this on the way 🙂
          Anurag mate– are u looking for a producer for your movie?
          (provided I get the lead role 🙂

          Like

  76. alex adams Says:

    yes–agree–its all in di’s mind–she noted it first lol
    we are all innocent kids….(me, amy, og)

    Like

  77. alex adams Says:

    btw somehow i feel she is totally ‘naive’ & innocent…from the pics…really

    Like

  78. alex adams Says:

    lol @ Di
    Di–why do u think im making the ‘cocktail’ spoof 🙂
    joking…
    Amy and oldgold already have a role–think u r also talented, di. did u say u r a good singer…

    Like

  79. On a related note Kashyap has been sending out the Variety review on Wasseypur (as he should) but note how selective these things become. Here’e Variety on D6:

    http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117939783?refcatid=31

    they find the film a relative mess but they like Abhishek in it.

    Here’s the same publication on Raavan:

    http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117942977?refcatid=31

    they like the film a lot, they think Abhishek is great with Asihwarya but hams it otherwise (though they don’t entirely blame him for this).

    The point I’m trying to make is that you either like a source and/or critic or you don’t. You can’t like them only when they agree with you. So Kashyap called a lot of these films mediocre. But what about these reviews?! The very Western types Kashyap loves quoting when it’s about his films at festivals or the films of those he’s allied with and so on!

    On another related note he’s unsurprisingly been going crazy on Shanghai on his twitter feed. Here again I don’t have a problem. He can promote whatever he likes. But he proves my point by promoting crazily certain films made by certain people. Whether Shanghai or LAK!

    And this is not about me questioning him but I think his larger credibility becomes questionable when this happens.

    Like

    • And the other point of mine SHanghai proves is that it’s getting great reviews. So this is exactly the right time to be that kind of filmmaker in Bombay. Could DB have made this sort of film in 1985?! There is great institutional support for this kind of cinema in Bollywood today at the level of the media and so on. Finance is a different issue. It’s never easy to be an alternative filmmaker at any point anywhere. But even here the very fact that so many such films get made every year when there were probably 0 in say 1995 means something!

      What happens is that the terms of every revolution are somewhat different and one has to account for this when measuring their eventual success or failure. From one perspective (and as I’ve argued in the past) he’s been enormously successful and influential. On the other hand he also went most wayward at the very point that this happened! This is not an odd irony by any means. A lot of people are good at rebellion and not at institutionalization. Which in a sense speaks to their integrity. However a lot of people in this group are also not very good at reinventing rebellion once the moment of the old one passes (whether successful or not). Now at one level this isn’t easy because even when one tries to reinvent things one cannot quite replicate the shock of the new for one’s audience. But one certainly doesn’t help the cause by putting out some very confused and poorly executed attempts. RGV again has much in this past decade that he could justly call worthwhile or even important. I would have Naach (though a very good first half here, where incidentally he is closest to Ratnam’s naturalism, led to a sadly conformist and uninteresting second one), SR, Nishabd, the RC double on such a list (might be forgetting something here). Perhaps RC is the most important of the ones I’ve just mentioned but in any case had RGV stuck to this kind of cinema (not those very films of course but something relatively consistent and provocative) it would have been a different debate. But he’s had colossal misfires fairly regularly. I certainly cannot fathom beyond a point where he’s going. The fact that he can throw up very good stuff from time to time puzzles me even more.

      And so onto Kashyap once again. He’s a cult favorite, celebrated by many. His films generally receive positive attention, he’s even done the festival rounds on occasion. He should accept this. He isn’t where he was before Black friday released or whatever! Does this mean he’s become Rohit Shetty where he can launch big films? No! But that’s not his aim anyway. A guy who gets the financing to do a two hour epic called Gang of Wasseypur with Bajpai in the lead isn’t doing too badly! Relative to his goals. This doesn’t mean the financing bit of the equation ever gets easy. It cannot by definition for a certain kind of filmmaker. But there’s nothing peculiarly Indian about this problem. And to complete the circle if one nonetheless wants to assert that there is much more institutional support for his kind of cinema in France or the US or wherever he is absolutely right. There is the right critical apparatus and so on. Which is why I quarreled with him on this point! You don’t develop that apparatus if you very selectively praise films. You do so if you speak for a much wider body of work even when you might not like certain works or directors or whatever. The larger goal is the more important one here. You can’t on the one hand complain about all of this, celebrate the West for their institutional support, regular launch polemics about how Bollywood doesn’t appreciate this stuff and/or they’re in frog’s pond of whatever and then turn around the next minute when you’re quizzed about the very same and say ‘hey I never saw myself in such a role’! Well perhaps some casting changes are required here!

      Like

      • Can I just say that I’ve been disillusioned with Kashyap for some time but you’ve really put it in concrete terms some of the reasons why. 🙂

        Like

      • how did this change happen?why db cudnt make a shanghai in 1985 or 1995…which he can now?it is because of people like kashyap,who fought against the system,did not compromise and ultimately…with internet coming,economy opening and the minds of indian youths getting wider they managed to find a niche audience for their kind of movies.otherwise we all know cult directors like kundan shah or kamal swaroop never got a chance to make more films because of lack of producers and audiences.
        yu r saying becoz he brought about this change…and becoz he is one of the leading directors in the field of these kinds of cinema,he has a responsibility not to be selective and praise only his friends.but he doesnt!if he likes a movie,no matter to which camp it belongs he praises it and he seeks out the director and befriends him.as he mentioned he did with db.now r u suggesting he shud not seek directors?he shud not have director friends…so that he can be neutral in his criticism of the movies?
        moreover,every person has his own sensibility,he didnt like raavan or delhi 6….the way he liked oye lucky…or shanghai…..its his personal taste….how is that his fault?
        he has a certain taste for movie and when he likes a film he befriends the film maker….not one but many of them.i think that is completely natural.
        u made a very pertinent point. u said: “You don’t develop that apparatus if you very selectively praise films. You do so if you speak for a much wider body of work even when you might not like certain works or directors or whatever.”……point taken…..but every man has his limitations.he has always been the way he is and still been able to bring about the change…in which a guy makes a 2 part epic with bajpayee in the lead.and will continue doing so.

        Like

        • even if he doesnt like the director he should praise him…for the sake of developing an apparatus?dear the kinds of directors u want anurag to praise….y do they all have only 1 thing in common?that is abhisekh bachchan…u tell me how honest is that on ur part?

          Like

  80. here’s a shot from Z that I’ve had in the sidebar for more than a day. And I mention it again here because this is a fine example of some of the distinctions I try to make. Here you have an impressive formalism that also plays into the films larger themes. So you have the out of control crowd here, the forces of the state and then perched above but also dangling in between the two, almost slicing the screen at the center is the image of the candidate. Just the image. The perfect symbol of political representation and indeed ‘representation’ itself. The film’s thriller aspects, all the histories it implicates, ultimately revolve around the sign of political representation. This shot then with that image (and it’s not necessarily the only one in the film) distills everything through this wonderful framing. One could discuss this at great length, the geometric elements here (the cables running across and so on), etc but my essential point here is that a surprisingly ordinary visual, that of crowds carrying a political image or slogan, something completely unremarkable because we’ve all seen it many times, becomes in this shot a very potent symbol and becomes literally and otherwise the focal point of the shot in which a lot else is happening. And in turn becomes a perfect vehicle for everything the film is about. Not just because it fuses the ‘architecture’ of the shot with the film’s themes but because it ‘becomes’ a stand in for the latter. In other words it says whatever the film tries to with its story (based on a book) with purely cinematic resources here. Here the technical choices the director makes are complete united with his larger narrative intentions.

    Like

  81. wow did anurag really came here?

    Like

  82. Alex adams Says:

    Yes, the ‘alien’ actually landed here –didn’t u see it…

    Like

  83. Alex adams Says:

    Btw thanx Filmifan from referencing / reporting —
    “And over at Satyamshot, Anurag Kashyap is taken to task for his cheerleading of films like Love Aaj Kal and Delhi Belly as masterpieces when, clearly, they are not.

    Satyam:You praised Love Aaj Kal to the skies. Here I was bewildered not because I felt you were being hyperbolic but because I didn’t see what there was at all to praise here. Or by these liberal standards very much coming out of Bollywood could be praised. I remember being extremely disappointed by Imtiaz Ali here. I felt he had Joharized himself. Or performed a kind of upgrade on that kind of cinema.”

    http://filmigirl.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/thursday-gossip.html

    C’mon Satyam–
    Be a man
    Pay her back by putting up a link or sidebar or something 🙂

    Like

  84. Btw Sumit taught me one thing during his stint at SS- how NOT to ask a girl for her number/email address (that time i had perverse sort of fantasy that Ami might just give the fanboy her number)…just kidding. But on a serious note, how did Sumit dare to ask for such time- he had guts man. btw the guy is an intelligent chap

    Like

  85. Alex adams Says:

    Haha-maybe I was a bit too severe on him -hope he is ok..
    Minor-btw what happened to the ‘task’ I gave u-any progress?
    Need to catch up with some work for a bit…
    All the best

    Like

  86. i went through the thread,have no doubt this chap was infact the real anurag.the spontaneous and powerhouse responses he gave buttressed the fact.
    by the way i saw the movie shanghai…its a brillinat film..probably one of the best movies made on politics in india.but i personally think that the movie gulaal by kashyap was better.maybe not better crafted,or paced…but its philosophical theme was deeper.why i think anurag kashyap is a genius whereas banerjee is merely brillinat,is that anurag has a penchant for the absurd and the ridiculous.his movies are always informed by an undercurrent of existential crisis jabki dibakar merely sticks to the objectivity of the plot..as it translates into cinema.
    i feel very lucky that i was born in the same century as anurag did.believe it or not..but he has the potential of becoming great.greater than satyajit or adoor or benegal or any other arty farty.as anurag rightly said,the kind of cinema(with its excessive concern for the downtrodden…or its romantic naturalism) they made..is gone.
    this is the age of merciless and brutal realism in cinema.as was displayed in the movie shanghai..by banerjee;and anurag is one notch above than even being a brutal realist,he is a hyper or magic realist…how else do u explain characters like ransaa,ardhnareshwar or piyush mishra in the movie gulaal?
    Friends you all should be lucky that in your life you got a chance to interact with a genius.
    Though i m burning to,i will not say anything against the bachchans…i think abhisekh can be utilized better.some of the action sequences which abhisekh gave in the movie run,were nothing short of mythic.but he needs to work hard and improve his craft.i think these kids of movie stars,because of the cushioned uprbringing they have had and also because they r not related to the theater,will increasingly find it difficult to play good roles in these subverted modern times of cinema.the public can digest them in mainstream movies,doing escapist stuff,but when it comes to the realist or hyper realist cinema,because of the cushioned upbringing they r unable to portray a role with the kind of intensity…a manoj bajpayee or irfan khan can.

    Like

    • “but he has the potential of becoming great.greater than satyajit or adoor”

      Don’t think he has done anything that remotely puts him close to these two. And remember Pathar Panchali was Ray’s first!

      “i feel very lucky that i was born in the same century as anurag did.believe it or not.”

      I can believe it but I’m very disturbed!

      Like

  87. dear satyam
    i am not saying anurag has become as great as satyajit or adoor….i merely said that in the international stage,and looking at the subverted,self referential cinemas of modern times he has the potential.
    a satyajit jay or an adoor is obsolete in the context of the modern world,they cannot represent the voice of emerging india.they were great craftsmen and visionaries,i m not gainsaying that,but in modern times they r not relevant.yu tell me,of the current crop of indian filmmakers,not those who r based outside..like shekhar kapur,deepa mehta or mira niar…who has the potential of making it big at the world stage?
    if u spell out five names i m sure anurag will be one of them

    Like

    • First off Ray and even Adoor are getting more attention in West, not less. Ray keeps getting retrospectives. He’s never had more video releases (by way of DVD) than in the last 7-8 years. They’ve even released some of his obscure films in the UK. Adoor two has received his only DVD releases in recent years. There was a famous NY retro on him in the 90s and I think there was similar stuff in other places too. Great art does not become obsolete and no one internationally thinks that one of the most celebrated filmmakers ever, Ray, is becoming obsolete! adoor has never been as well-known though again he too is getting more attention than before.

      Unless Kashyap does something dramatically different he will never reach Ray’s pinnacle internationally or otherwise. It even sounds absurd to have to say this!

      As for contemporary Indian filmmakers who have that potential I don’t know who they are. Again there isn’t an obvious list that jumps out at me. But nor does Kashyap. He can certainly do the festival circuit but many others can as well. I would certainly be very pleased if he made that breakout film that did indeed garner that attention.

      But as things stand your sense of Kashyap is extraordinarily hyperbolic as far as I’m concerned.

      Like

  88. the director of the movie om dar ba dar,kamal swaroop has said something very interesting in an interview he gave.he said the creativity is self delusion,and a great film director is he who can come up with fanciful delusions.suppose a paan stain colors the wall….its a random chaos without any patten.but if u look at it deeply…u can delude urself and start finding patterns in it.the more u feed ur delusions the more fanciful and magical the patterns and shapes will emerge.this is how life is….at the end of the day….life is meaningless and random.and a great director is the one who can delude himself and others through his cinema into finding fanciful,outrageous,shocking and subversive patterns in it.that is art and that is originality.and i think the movies of kashyap….look at no smoking,gulaal…even to an extent dev d….(.though black friday considered his best,i rank it the least courageous in terms of art)…they r bristing with his originality.he is not the hackneyed type,talking about revolution of the youth…as om praksh mehra did in RDB…or talking sbout the age old ghiisa pita..funda…of muslim hindu ekta…in delhi 6….
    anurag.s movies are avant garde,in its existential concerns.i dont remember any indian director in the past, no matter how celebrated took existential themes with dollops of black humour in their cinema as he does.look at his films deeply,they r sublime.

    Like

  89. i think after he has left,it is very unfortunate that yu guys r indulging in below the belt and insulting comments about him and huma qureishi.the whole industry knows that he is not the casting couch type.

    Like

    • Agreed but then people are different. As Anurag said we should not see people through our prism but appreciate their weaknesses and strengths!

      Like

    • Alex adams Says:

      Hmmm
      Good points there Sachin …
      Also about huma qureshi–im also ‘disturbed’ by such comments and if u read carefully, have tried to ‘defend’ her
      Besides she looks ‘innocent’–what do u think..
      Bro-good points about kashyaps ‘originality’
      I love all his films 🙂

      Like

    • My comments were general observation and as Ami correctly pointed out were about professional conduct in public place. There was only one comment by someone else that I found a bit offensive specially for this thread which was created for debate with A.K ( about “holding” something in the hand) and lighter comments by Alex as he must always. Reading your comments, I get a feeling that you prolly have been here before and could be one of the fake id guy 🙂
      @Ami: Thanks girl for defending….muah…

      Like

      • No problem Di- I suppose Alex will now call both of us easily offended prudes! 😉

        Like

      • I have deleted most of this thread but this Ami comment deserves to stand:

        [There was nothing wrong with the comments made about Anurag and Huma- Di simply objected to the pose which she thought was unnecessarily cosy for a director and his lead actress. I mistakenly assumed that she was referring to the casting couch and defended Anurag saying that he does not seem like the type- Di then clarified that she was NOT referring to the casting couch but simply the way in which certain actresses behave around their married directors (which in her opinion was inappropriate).

        Your comments on the other hand are lewd and extremely demeaning. Conjecture about Huma’s virgnity and Deepika’s ‘sluttiness’ are just as offensive as conjecture about Anurag’s casting methods (which nobody here actually indulged in anyway).]

        Like

        • Sachin/Alex – that entire discussion was in very bad taste. It’s one thing to have one comment here and there and quite another to conduct a full-fledged discussion. Don’t quite see the ‘humor’ here. But I’d also say that one can’t pretend to be progressive while constantly indulging in such regressive humor with the ‘it’s only light-hearted’ disclaimer at the end. What one jokes about is at least as much revealing as what one says seriously, sometimes moreso.

          The other reason I’m unhappy is that because there were so many comments, it took me at least 15 min to sort through them. I had to edit or delete stuff, eventually I removed the entire thread. The reason this is complicated is because if you remove certain comments without looking at the thread connecting to them you mess up the entire post. And so I had to go through things in great detail and really waste a lot of valuable time.

          Next time if I have to do this I might be forced to do other stuff too which I don’t want to. So please don’t engage in this kind of extended discussion on ‘virginity’ or anything comparable again.

          Like

          • Alex adams Says:

            I think that’s a reasonable point…
            The discussion started with ‘innocence’ of huma
            But then sachin moved to ‘virginity’ etc
            I didn’t show my ‘agreement’ with him but wish to ‘discourage’ him from coming out with his true feelings–since that’s what blogging is about..
            Maybe that represents what some folks TRULY feel and take it out only on anonymous blogs
            But one can ABSOLUTELY see why ‘virginity’ suddenly becomes an emotive issue…
            Ps–another note on this ‘ganging up’ against a new member, though some of the stuff has been deemed ‘offemsive’…
            I’m not aware if he-she is an ‘imposter’ and won’t defend him/her if he/she is one…
            But if every member here treats a ‘new’ person posting first time here as a ‘soft target’, not many new people will come here…
            Though I agree that if ‘offensive stuff ‘ is discussed by the new member or photos/details/ dating proposals are put up (as by sumit), it has to be cracked down upon 🙂

            Like

      • “there was one such comment by someone else”- Di, i don’t know what’s ur problem and why r u taking potshots at me (even if u r, why not be direct?). Anyway u have said a lot of bullshit abt me.i don’t have any idea why r u after me but all i will say is that if i have said anything abt u which u haven’t liked, i ‘APOLOGISE’. now my respect for u is holding me back from saying stuff to u but this line of patience is abt to snap. I don’t see Ami having a problem with my comment. Anyway let’s end this thing

        Like

        • Saurabh, I read comments and do not recall who wrote it most of the time…simple as that…instead of taking the person’s name, it is always safer to point out the comment, which is what I did. In other words I am not “after” anyone. If Lex made distasteful comments or lead a new blogger in wrong direction, I pointed it out as well. I don’t really care if it is done in other threads but it should NOT be done in THIS thread!! It is one thing to engage in non-intellectual discussions with A.K. and it is offensive/vulgar/cheap to say such things about someone like him especially if you don’t know him personally!!

          Here was your comment and you be the judge if this comment is appropriate for THIS particular thread!!! Satyam should delete this one as well, IMO.

          “Well it’s just that ur vision is limited to the ‘arm’. my foresight enables me to see her ‘holding something else’ during different hours of the day (or night)…LOL”

          Like

          • Di, firstly i don’t believe that u remembered my comment and did not remember the name of the poster.And when u made this comment, my comment had still not been erased by satyam. Anyway my joke was only on Huma and not on A.K. Also tell me sincerely, since u r objecting to the comments here, have u never made a more lewd comment than mine? and it’s just not abt this comment, u have had a huge problem with me using ‘f word’, then u went ahead and called me a ‘sycophant’ and so on- i am not blind

            Like

          • Yes, i do believe that particular comment of mine should be deleted and i hope Satyam does it. i got carried away and should not have made that remark at all. even though it was made in a lighter vein, this cannot be an excuse. and in future i will make sure i don’t make any such comments. reading it now, it actually seems to be in bad taste

            Like

          • I didn’t see that comment earlier.. it’s totally inappropriate. Just edited it.

            Like

  90. @satyam…reading through ur posts i get the impression that u r an astute critic,maybe as far as dispassionate criticism of a work of cinematic art is concerned better than anurag.and i know u like his brand of cinema,yu accept it or not.but i hope u dont let ur blog become a forum where ur friends will bash kashyap.ur posts…i doubt is…. closely read by ur followers…they dont look into the deep analysis and the subtle shud i say academic points of difference u r making with anurag kashyap.they only look at the feel or tone of it….and think its negative and then the feel free to bash kashyap.i think u have a certain responsibilty in that regard to clarify urself further and make the environment of this blog less anti kashyap and more pro good cinema.

    Like

    • Let me accept for a minute that your hypothesis is right. Doesn’t the same apply to his fans?!

      Like

    • “ur posts…i doubt is…. closely read by ur followers…they dont look into the deep analysis and the subtle shud i say academic points of difference u r making with anurag kashyap.they only look at the feel or tone of it….and think its negative and then the feel free to bash kashyap.i ”

      Yes unfortunately all of Satyam’s ‘followers’ (I wasn’t aware that this was some sort of a cult!) are knuckleheaded idiots who are obliviously to subtlety- so he is forced to take on these additionally responsiblities to make things clear to us.

      I feel that as a next step to cater to our limited mental capacities he should include a glossary of any esoteric cultural references that he has uses in comments as well. Or maybe he should start writing smaller comments in simpler vocabulary so as not to strain our comprehension skills (but that is asking for the impossible)! 😉

      Like

      • Thanks Ami for making the point perfectly!

        Like

      • on that note let me add that I’ve been very slow. Had I known I had followers I would have started a political outfit!

        On a more serious note I would always like friends, debating partners, and if there’s a ’cause’ anywhere those who agree on the basics. I hope I never have followers. Would be quite a disaster!

        Like

      • @Ami: ROFLOL. Good one. I do agree to “should start writing smaller comments” bit. I think of Satyam as a Professor and most of us as his students. Some are naughty (lexy), some are studious, some are “mangoes”, some don’t attend his classes regularly…and then he has visiting professors who come on his blog on regular basis.

        Like

      • @ami i was not insulting u or any one else’s intelligence. i just got a feeling after going through this thread.in the fight with anurag that no one was actually building on or taking from the cogent arguments that satyam made…but every one so to say were blowing their own pipes,which resulted in somewhat of a mess towards the latter part of his stay.i m not saying the debate should have been only between anurag and satyam,but i m saying that we should have built on the arguments that satyam was advancing and posed them before anurag.that way the debate wud hv been more meaningful.. and anurag wud have been forced to speak more in his defence.since that didnt happen…i felt as if no one is really reading or understanding satyams arguments,they r merely getting the feel of it and using it as an excuse to launch their own diatribe against anurag.

        Like

  91. Alex adams Says:

    A good point by sachin about the comparison about kashyap and dibakar
    While I haven’t seen shanghai and absolutely adore dibakers style and all his films, agree that kashyap is better…
    He’s got that crucial bit more–a magical quirky maverick improvisation…
    No wonder that have been indulging with him so much 🙂

    Like

  92. Alex adams Says:

    Welcome to a new musical exceptional talent in the Indian scene–
    My introduction to sneha khanwalkar !!
    Being a die hard Rahman fan, ones standards get s bit high and spoilt….
    Amongst all, only Shankar ehsaan loy on a good day somewhat come close…
    Amit trivedi has been brilliant in dev d and is a talent to watch out for, but since hasnt really hit the ball out of the park…
    But the music aficionado (lol!!!) in me has stumbled upon a rare talent through gangs of wasseypur …
    Now as an example–
    one does has to see how she gets the ‘hunter’ song just right…
    She travels all the way to the Caribbean to get the ‘chutney’ music right-a mix of calypso Caribbean and migrant Bihari and gets hold of their discticntive singers, arrangers with the pronounciation spot on!!
    Could NEVER in my life imagine myself enjoying a rustic bhojpuri track !!!! I shudder to even think lol
    Sneha khanwalkars ‘passion for her craft’ and her respect for the rustic folk traditions is creditable
    But credit here also goes to anurag kashyap primarily for creating such a system where people who really know their Job abound …

    Like

  93. Sneha gave music for Dibakar’s LSD and OLLO too. She is definitely sumone to watch out for. i believe since Usha Khanna, she is the only female composer bwood has seen. But how i wish Amit Trivedi would have composed for GoW- this guy is on a league of his own. other ones to look out for r Sachin-Jigar (Shor in the City)

    Like

  94. Alex adams Says:

    Just to remind everyone folks
    I was the FIRST one here who spotted huma qureshis innocence..
    Even at some protests about her holding onto kashyap etc, I insisted–that she seems ‘innocent’ etc
    So in a way, after kashyap, she is MY discovery 🙂

    Unveiling huma qureshi
    http://www.moviespad.com/celebrity/images/64980/huma-qureshi/

    Like

  95. Alex adams Says:

    Another one –think after all the protests about poor huma, suggest this needs to be added onto the top wasseypur thread etc, as a ‘compensation’ somewhat 🙂
    Also to give her the ‘visibility’ and publicity for other projects
    All the best huma
    http://www.moviespad.com/celebrity/images/79549/huma-qureshi-wedding/

    Ps-sachin dear–I have been encouraging and supporting u
    But what’s this I’m hearing from Di about u being an ‘imposter’
    Have u been active under other false ids etc-
    Any guesses /suggestions folks
    Will have to again put my investigational cap on…
    Ps2– who are the ones suddenly missing ?
    Oldgold?– well she can’t make such comments-so that’s ruled out-she seems to be preparing for her cocktail role … 🙂

    Like

  96. People shouldn’t make this thread as dustbin of anything they like. If they have something to say on topic then use it.

    Like

  97. Anurag Kashyap ‏@ankash1009

    Guess who was the most successful actor across the 60’s n the 70’s and what is the relevance today of those string of silver “JUBILEE” hits

    Satyam ‏@Satyamk

    @ankash1009 not sure ‘who’ you’re referring to! There was Rajendra in the sixties followed by Rajesh Khanna.

    Satyam ‏@Satyamk

    @ankash1009 but that also cuts the other way. What is the relevance of Basu Bhattacharya’s films today?! Anubhav anyone?!

    Satyam ‏@Satyamk

    @ankash1009 also not being remembered today doesn’t mean that this will always be the case. A few decades is a blip in history!

    Satyam ‏@Satyamk

    @ankash1009 The harsh truth of history is that often great works are forgotten as much as mediocre ones. And vice versa!

    Satyam ‏@Satyamk

    @ankash1009 and this is precisely why one must work toward fostering the larger conversation..

    Like

  98. Sachin Chauhan:

    watch anurag kashyap openly taking the ass of the bollywood family business

    Like

  99. Am quite late on this thread, whose time just maybe over, but felt compelled to leave a note. Satyam, feel free to delete it if you wish/consider the conversation over. Also, although this post is largely addressed to you, it is more a product of a certain, almost epidemic syndrome I call Anurag-bashing that I witness everywhere.

    I have avidly followed AK since a long time now. I was on PFC as well so read him extensively there as well. Now it’s just twitter and the media. Am not a fan in any sense, I tend to like the man more than his films, although I don’t know if that makes me a fan, does it? 🙂 I don’t know him personally, just observations of his interactions, and from some friends who work with him. Over the years, I have observed inconsistencies in him that you point out, right from then till now and I saw similar criticisms of him back then as well, yes, even before he had a single release but had many fans already. Over the years, I have noticed those older fanboys move away and newer ones formed asking the same questions…Of course, one would say, that means the questions hold! Of course, they do, I am not denying that. (I agree with them too) But the more criticism I read of the man, the more I am tempted to question their premise. Please do not attribute that questioning to any sort of favouritism or bias for Kashyap. It is just an attempt to seek (push for?) balance. Or understand the lack of it as I perceive it.

    When Kashyap burst onto the scene with his rabid brazen-ness and so-called brutal honesty, which according to me was simply rebellion, (Rebellion, rarely is a ‘mature’ thing, ‘revolution’ is.) denigrating the Big Bad Bollywood left and right, overnight he became the hero of the down-trodden. He was anointed the ‘rebel’, the ‘iconoclast’, the ‘path-breaker’ because everyone saw his taking on of Bollywood biggies as courageous, which it really wasn’t. I am not implying it was calculated or fake. It was very genuine but it was an emotional response. Not a matter of courage. Or even principle. Else, he wouldn’t have abused Khalid Mohammed and Karan Johar publicly and gone and made up with them. (You do that when your actions were guided by emotion in the first place and not principle. You never apologise for your principles.) But in our drive, thirst and desperation for a ‘hero’, we continue to see him in one particular way, anoint him a leader and hang onto every word of his and then tell him to be a certain way when he falls below our expectations. I have seen Anurag being put through that umpteen number of times and I am amazed Anurag continues to put up with it. In his place I wouldn’t. His response here, (and it’s not the first time either), ‘I am not what you think of me, or want me to be, I am just me’ (loosely quoted) to me is not trying to escape definitions but putting them in their right place. We have forced him to become the kind of hero we need and we will simply not allow him to fall a millimetre out of line. It is simply not his job to live upto our expectations.

    I read criticisms of him ranging from his choice of films, his choice of words, his choice of films he likes…my question is to us, his fans and observers/followers – Isn’t it upto us to re-assess our own metre when someone we look upto behaves in a manner discordant to what we assumed he would otherwise do? And with it, assess our own metre? To be very fair, Anurag never claimed, nor claims to be the saviour of cinema. Knowing a few ppl closely at his office, I know how no-nonsense he is with the ppl he allows to work with him as juniors. To be very fair, he may have (as what seems to us) romantic notions of his own struggles, but he simply does not have any notions of being the one to raise others out of it. He doesn’t feign to be our hero, so I think it is only fair we drop those expectations of him. Anyways, I tend to think, we question our film-stars/directors far far more than we should our politicians who are far more consequential in the general scheme of things.

    A parting note – The most fulfilling relationship is that which comes from understanding than the ‘shoulds’. In that context, if one is convinced (which I am by the way :)) that he is biased and selective then it is fair to process his statements/actions from there, in fact that is the right thing to do. (In the past, he has also applauded Jaane Tu Ya Jaane Na (Tyrewala is/was a good friend) and I was like ‘hunh’?) But telling him what he should be doing, is something, I don’t think anyone has a right to do. Also, I very strongly believe he doesn’t do it to give a film mileage, in the strict sense of objective support, but does it genuinely, like he says, cause he admires the courage or the craft. It’s upto us to understand which was what. (I also see him applauding other/smaller cinema as a mark of objective support on twitter but then his choice of doing it in a larger way is a subject of debate for another day.)

    (Side-note: I’d probably not have said this if your post had asked Anurag why he does what he does instead of asking him to see that you were right in what you thought he was doing or if it didn’t seek to convince him of his own shortcomings. Again, who are we? Also, who is he to us?)

    P.S. : I generally don’t involve myself very deeply in blog debates since it is not often you find people ready to be honest and self-analytical. I saw you had the courage to be so (your comment on narcissism) and I thought to myself, hey I think I can be frank with this guy without having the conversation derailed or dissipated into nothing. Thank you for that!

    Like

    • RE:”Am not a fan in any sense, I tend to like the man more than his films, although I don’t know if that makes me a fan”

      This goes on to prove the age old truth that women don’t watch cricket they watch the cricketers.
      Though i love Anurag’s films…as a person i dont like him at all.
      he is a masochistic cry baby wallowing in the bog of self pity and ranting against the world and himself….
      now these things as long as they inform his work is okay….original/subversive…..but as a man he needs to grow up….
      his body language is too impressionable and over eager…..he is obviously fat….rustic…..facial features unattractive….
      he is precisely the kind of a man who will embarrass his wife in a party after getting drunk….

      Like

  100. “This goes on to prove the age old truth that women don’t watch cricket they watch the cricketers”
    🙂 haha
    Btw what a long comment by fatema-she sounds a kashyap fan as well…
    “found out about this strangely hsyterical phenomenon of a soap opera from a brazilian friend here in NY. soooo funny!”
    Anya- do tell us about your Brazilian friend in NY..

    Like

  101. omrocky786 Says:

    so much for jesus of good cinema…finally saw Aaiyya…….hated the movie so much that almost broke the TV…all the charactes are so fuckingover the top and irritating .AK tu ab retire ho jaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
    ya ya i know he just produced it !!!

    Like

    • omrocky786 Says:

      my first movie of 2013 and such a crapfest…kya soch kar banai thee yeh picture …junta paagal hai iss picture ke characters kee tarah ????

      Like

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