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519 Responses to “Jab Tak Hain Jaan & Son of Sardar (ongoing), the rest of the box office”
Jab Tak Hai Jaan grossed around 13.50 crore nett on its third day as per early estimates which takes the three day business of the film to around 45 crore nett.
The film has done good to very good business all over initially apart from Bihar. CI is also on the lower side. The best business for the film has come in South India and West Bengal as these markets have been a one horse race.
The South and West Bengal do tend to drop faster than the traditional Hindi markets so how well it can sustain in Mumbai, Delhi/UP, east Punjab and Central markets over the next three days will hugely important for its long term business.
The three day territorial breakdown will be published on the website at around 16.00 IST.
Son Of Sardaar collected around 11.50 crore nett on its third day as per early estimates. The three day total for the film is around 34.50 crore nett. The film is super strong in Delhi/UP, East Punjab, Bihar, CP Berar, CI and Rajasthan.
In Delhi/UP, East Punjab, CI and Rajasthan the film will emerge the biggest hit of Ajay Devgn’s career. Bihar may also make the list. The day figures in the above circuits ensure the film will sustain in these circuits for the next two weeks.
Out of the other circuits, Mumbai is pretty good as Gujarat is strong and business in Nizam is also fair while Mysore, West Bengal and Tamil/Nadu are weak.
The three day territorial breakdown will be published on the website at around 16.00 IST.
@Satyam, you closed comments on the other thread before I saw this post of yours, so I’m responding here. I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that “People mistakenly believe ‘realism’ to be the same as ‘truth’.” This lies at the heart of many of the cinematic debates these days.
[But the point here is that even when one sometimes thinks these older films are ‘nothing’ one is right at one level and reductive at another. why? Because many of those nothing films (say a quintessential Shammi Kapoor comedy) encapsulate their world with a certain truth even within their escapist format or evoke an aura and a gesturality and so on that makes them valuable period pieces (assuming this to be the case.. and clearly it isn’t so for every older film) at minimum. Put differently there might be more ‘truth’ in a Shammi Kapoor comedy that isn’t aiming at any kind of profundity in any overt sense than in a serious contemporary film. Because the former perhaps creates a ‘world’ whereas the latter doesn’t, the former possibly trades better in the singularly potent aspects of cinema than the latter, the latter might not be art-work enough (even if it’s otherwise serious) to make up the difference that way.]
To add to this I am of course not saying that a Satyajit Ray film has competition in a Shammi Kapoor work when it comes to questions of ‘truth’. But there might be one between dozens of multiplex attempts these days that are ostensibly serious and certainly not insincere but that are also little more than Hollywood or film festival formats speaking Hindi! This is another way of getting at the ‘rooted’ which for me has never been about some sort of chauvinistic investment in the ‘native’ but about an engagement with one’s immediate environment in a socio-political sense or what have you. And on this note what Bombay has often done over the last twenty years is precisely resort to an ‘ethno-centrism’ in the service of a notion of ‘realism’. So for instance you have a fairly good representation of a Marathi character in terms of speech and gesturality et al. This is a very specific representation. Compared to this the average masala film operated at a level of abstraction. No ethnicity was delineated as sharply. Even when certain religious or ethnic types were represented this happened in rather stereotypical ways. But the realism of the 90s and beyond in this sense was for the most part not about any greater truth. The representation counts for something but it wasn’t done across the board. In Tamil commercial films (and otherwise) you have all kinds of folks represented from different parts of TN, often great care is taken to stress their varying speech elements and so on. So when they’ve had the same impulse they’ve not been restrictive about it. I am not really a fan of this entire approach but there’s something to be said about doing it fairly. Again you often have the lead in a film hailing from a different TN town and then a big deal is made about this. In Bombay on the other hand you still have a very limited set. So yes Marathi representations but what else? All of North India becomes the same. Usually ‘Punjabi’ or later you had a generic UP stand-in (nevermind the distinctions between western and Eastern UP and so on).
but let’s just stick to the Marathi representation. Alright it’s done well in a particular film but so what?! Even documentaries are completely useless if that’s the limit of their aims. Documentaries too have to aim at a greater truth. And so even though those older masala films were more abstract they were so in the service of a certain universality. There was a larger ideological set here within which even the otherwise objectionable stereotyping made a certain sense. The problem with contemporary cinema is that directors have the rather mistaken notion that representing accurately the speech patterns of someone from UP is everything. Nothing else really needs to be done in the film. That representation is the whole show! Of course there’s another point here which is that this kind of ‘ethnic show’ is really for deracinated multiplex consumption! In any case the problem isn’t the tighter focus in this sense but that the latter doesn’t open on to something greater. When Scorsese made Means Streets this too was about a very small slice of the world and the film remained heavily focused on for the most part a few streets in certain neighborhoods but through this focal point the director opened up a world or something universal which is why so many cinemas in so many parts of the world were able to learn from him.
It’s also not just about ethnic representation. As I said a film festival effort ‘in Hindi’ is rather useless unless it is also anchored to the local. If I can neatly summarize this I would say ‘Udaan not Barfi’! This isn’t a statement against Barfi as pure narrative about which one could have a different debate but about the fact that Barfi is a very recognizable film festival effort. How well or not it has been handled is again another discussion but that’s the impulse here. And it’s not the only one nor is Bollywood the only industry that does this. There are lots of cinemas around the world that produce much more serious film festival efforts that are also ultimately bland films for the same reason. Barfi is a film that could have been made anywhere with very slight differences. Is it better than most other stuff coming out of Bollywood? Sure! But if it is not truly an ‘Indian’ effort in this sense and if it also isn’t truly superior film-making in other ways why should I watch it at all? In a more commercial format we saw the same with Abhishek’s Game. Not a bad film on its own but a complete xerox of a film in terms of the world it creates. It just happens to be in Hindi but it could be in a number of other languages. Now Barfi attempts something more serious than Game but in the final analysis it offers no greater truth than Game. Because in each case the ‘aesthetics’ of the film are still markedly inferior to the best of what you would get elsewhere in those very same genres and also in each instance you don’t have the ‘anchoring’ in the local that could create a genuine ‘difference’. My point here isn’t the usual Philistine one ‘we’re Indians, we’re not into those kinds of films, the common man wants this or that and so on.. as an aside I should say and paraphrasing Obama, we are the ‘common man’ we pretend to look for!’. I’m not against Indian cinema taking newer directions (though one wonders why greats like Ray and Adoor and Ghatak and many others have not been able to provide this direction to so many contemporary Indian filmmakers!) but without the right ‘rootedness’ one is making plastic films either way. So again nothing wrong with Barfi on its own but it’s a pointless film otherwise. I could watch this kind of subject a 100 times each week from different parts of the world. Just having Indian actors is not enough of a kick for me! On the other hand Udaan is the exact opposite. Everything that Barfi isn’t. Very few Udaans in Hindi unfortunately.
The truth can come about in different ways. Importing categories authorized by the colonial other testifies to a certain historical dynamic but it doesn’t otherwise create any truth on its own.
Fantastic comment Satyam. Having said that I recently rewatched Howrah Bridge. Now i loved the way Calcutta is portrayed (left a longer comment on ur Gehri Chaal piece) but Madhubala’s attempt at speaking ‘Maharashtrian Hindi’ was laughably poor. “And so even though those older masala films were more abstract they were so in the service of a certain universality. There was a larger ideological set here within which even theotherwise objectionable stereotyping made a certain sense.” How, could u explain?
Let me respond to this briefly as I am going to step out. Take AAA. It could be argued that the Muslim or the Christian here are stereotypical figures in certain ways. But Desai uses this opportunity to not just make them the true heroes of the film far more than Amar, he also uses the occasion to advance a truly secular ideal. So being authentically Indian means always having Anthony and Akbar at the forefront! And though there is stereotyping it is delivered to the audience with great affection.
As a matter of politics I actually do believe that a minority should be privileged in every society that is otherwise not structurally tilted towards the same (in other words it’s not Syria!). Because the majority, contrary to the hyperventilations of most right-wingers in most countries, is never under threat. This is simply a political imaginary that is created for various reasons. The health of a democracy at any rate is better measured by how much is guaranteed to the minority as opposed to the majority. This is where even some very ‘advanced’ democracies falter. It might be that there is no democracy that can adequately account for minorities. Not least because the nation-state is always founded on the construct of the majority. But in any case I do not know of a single democracy where a minority is glorified at the expense of the majority. Again I do not know of a single one.
Having said that I did not intend all of this when I made that comment. That was just an example. The ‘truth’ here is Desai own Nehruvian vision. One need not subscribe to it but there is a certain popular manifestation of this ideology in his cinema. But I’ll offer another example of the same. In those old 60s films you would sometimes see love songs shot at the Taj Mahal (you still see this in contemporary Tamil films sometimes). Now these videos never quite worked for me but there was a historical archive these videos referenced and this was something the entire audience was familiar with. It’s a part of Indian lore. On the other hand you see in K3G a love song shot by the Pyramids. This seems empty because there is no real linkage between those ancient monuments and contemporary Indian lovers. The archives are completely other. So here these sites are used purely for grandeur and titillation. No ‘truth’ to this.
On Udaan Ebert is saying something completely different from u and I have to say that he is missing the point here-
“Although India has the world’s second most active film industry, “Udaan,”by Vikramaditya Motwane, is its first competition entry in seven years. It’s well made, involving, but (to my eyes at least) not particularly Indian. This story could have been set anywhere; it doesn’t depend on location, but on personalities.
“Perhaps when I say the film isn’t especially “Indian” I am expecting something more exotic. But India has one of the world’s largest middle classes, and its members spend very little time riding around on elephants. They are, I suppose, something like those we see here, with problems we can identify with.”
LOL, Satyam, such a long response even when I was agreeing with you? This is why I fear to engage with you. 🙂 I’ll get back to this later as there is much to respond to, but I don’t have the time right now.
As I said elsehwere I think JTHJ probably won’t do more than 120, maybe 130 if it’s lucky. It’s not been an OSO-like start and much more of a RNBDJ deal. Solid start, perhaps good follow-through. I suspect it does as much as Rowdy but Rowdy was iconic in its own way. That isn’t the case here. And when you’re talking about some of the huge benchmarks from other stars JTHJ is very far. Now it did have competition but the competition here is mostly concentrated in single screens where JTHJ was never going to do anything anyway (judging by SRK’s track record in this genre). So there isn’t as much of an overlap as there might have been. Of course I say it seems to be like RNBDJ but that film doubled its week 1 number more or less. If RNBDJ has 100 crores or so in week 1 it’s safe to say it won’t be doing 200! It would be lucky to even get to 150. Nothing since OSO for SRK has hit those highest gross benchmarks and no film has even hit the highest opening benchmarks. RA One came closest to this with more spent on advertising than most of those other 100 crore grossers put together! Getting back to JTHJ 150 after a 100 crore week 1 would probably be acceptable given the standards prevalent today. But not if one is otherwise chasing those other massive grossers other stars have. And again it’s been 5 years since OSO. Plenty of very major projects with SRK in this period but nothing to challenge the bars set by others. Note by the way how even Taran and Nahata are much more retrained about the film’s box office performance. Usually they’re hyper-ventilating. They were saying more for Ra One! The same goes for BOI.
You had also said earlier that SOS would not be able to touch 100 cr (since it wasn’t multiplex friendly). What do u think now. I believe it should touch that mark. So inspite of a Yash Chopra-SRK magnum opus, Devgn is holding his own (infact is outgrossing JTHJ at places)- speaks something abt Devgn’s B.O. power though (and i am not saying this abt u but i clearly remember during the BB days some here were saying that Devgn is almost non-existent at BO- u of course did not say this)
would still be very surprised if it did. It’s just at 35 crores in three days. At the trajectory it’s on it would need Singham-like trending more or less to get there. It has the JTHJ competition and in two weeks other films release. So it needs to do the maximum it can in the first two weeks. To even have that chance it would have to be unbelievably stable. Not impossible but improbably given how just about every non-Aamir 100 crore grosser trends. Singham of course was the one exception. Will say though that the film might have done a 100 without competition. Not absolutely convinced about this because it seems rather weak in multiplexes. It’s not just the competition because OSO and Saawariya were both superb in multiplexes over the opening weekend. Given this film’s look and feel I’m not surprised it hasn’t been able to attract more multiplex participation. Clearly WOM seems to be good among those who have seen it but it’s so far not expanded its base.
On outgrossing JTHJ I doubt that’s happening at any multiplex where it really matters. I’m sure that’s happening at a lot of single/double screens but in these JTHJ never had much of a chance anyway. For years SRK grossers in these genres did nothing in these. On saying Devgan isn’t a box office force is clearly absurd. He’s not at the top of the pack by any means but he’s gained considerable steam within his comfort genres. Of course it is also the case that a suspiciously high number of these films are remakes and/or sequels. And that’s been partly the game with his peers as well. Salman has had two in this period, one is now going to be a sequel but the thing is that he’s getting such massive numbers that it’s not just because of this. Akshay on the other hand has his first masala hit in Rowdy and it’s not at Salman’s level in terms of initial and so on (though he too damaged himself with too many comedy failures). Devgan is certainly putting out some big grossers with remarkable regularity. It’s foolish to deny this means something.
I will still repeat what I said earlier — Devgan made a mistake releasing SOS over the same period. He should have waited a week. It’s clear that the film, whatever level it’s found, would have done better in the absence of competition and without the latter it might even have attracted a larger share of the multiplex audience. 100 crores in those circumstances would have been much more gettable. JTHJ I think is affecte far less by the competition. Some damage for sure but not one that seriously alters the box office trajectory of this film.
The thing is that if you’re in Salman’s current position you can release any film any time and generate massive numbers. If you’re Devgan you either need the Singham sort of deal which is a must for at least the base audience or something like BB which has an initial appeal to a wider audience. SOS falls between these stools. The multiplexes don’t regard it as unmissable and while the base shows up it’s not enough to drive them crazy. Note how Devgan’s true Singham base hasn’t really been that interested in SOS. Which is to say in the largest territory of Bombay.
In the final analysis I’d say both films will probably do reasonably well but neither one has truly set the box office on fire. here I’m not even that obsessed about the 100 crores. Think a whole brand of fanaticism has developed about this number. If Singham does 85-90 crores that would still be rather good for it in terms of trending (unless it has a huge weekend in which case it would need a bigger total). Similarly 140-150 for JTHJ wouldn’t be bad given where it’s started out (120-130 wouldn’t be good enough given a 100 crore week 1.. unless of course it does less than this). and I’m also not forgetting the whole Thackeray affair. Large parts of Bombay seem shut down. but even accounting for all these factors a fair analysis would have to suggest that so far neither film has done anything special relative to expectations. And unless one or both of these films trend remarkably well I don’t think this changes.
On JTHJ incidentally consider a fairly relevant comparison. Barfi did a 100 crores or something recently. This wasn’t a film for everyone. Clearly wasn’t a universal film even for multiplex audiences. It did well with enough segments here to get to that number. But if Barfi can do this aren’t some of these other multiplex films hopelessly under-performing?!
i think jthj has done far less and sos far more than expectations. with horrible promos of sos and yrf dirty tactics i was expecting jthj to decimate it. the fact that both films suck must have helped. i don’t think final numbers would have been much more, even with week apart solo releases.
going by numbers, srk is finally settling into the hrithik, ajay, akshay category; second rung behind aamir & salman. wonder why aa has not given his final word on what this means for srk’s star power, i mean we can’t really have a clear picture unless aa gives his pronouncement.
Antya: “going by numbers, srk is finally settling into the hrithik, ajay, akshay category; second rung behind aamir & salman.”
I am bemused at how Aamir is still revered in box office terms for a three year old film. True, its record hasn’t yet been broken (but neither has Gadar’s in inflation adjusted terms), but it’s not as if he’s been consistently giving hits of such magnitude since then — he hasn’t had even a single release. Though some anti-Aamir elements point to Dhobi Ghat to deride his box office power, I don’t count that. I think we’ll have to see how
Talaash performs to see his consistency at the box office in comparison to Salman. Give him credit for the kind of films he does, but don’t assume he’s a box office power without the right genre of film.
But the Gadar example isn’t relevant because its star isn’t relevant (and the inflation argument is a complicated one anyway.. otherwise taken to its logical extreme no film released after the 70s could really match the biggest hits of this decade and previous ones after making those adjustments). That’s obviously not the case with Aamir. And it’s not only about Talaash but also about a follow-up in D3 and the Hirani film. It’s true that he takes these big breaks sometimes but in the past it has never had a detrimental effect on his career. He took off for years after DCH when he wasn’t even as big as he is now and he came back with the biggest initial in MP. After 2006 he again disappeared for a couple of years (just had TZP in between) and again got the biggest initial and gross in Ghajini. A year later there was 3I. Why would one assume he wouldn’t be able to do the same now? There is no indication that he’s lost any of his draw. I would think the argument is actually the reverse. One would actually have to prove that he couldn’t get the biggest numbers anymore!
On the genre my claim has long been that Aamir gets the best numbers possible for a given genre. The best overall results. So in absolute terms 3I has not been beaten (even with the advantage of inflation it hasn’t been beaten in three years!) but in terms of trending even Ghajini hasn’t been touched. But his career over the last decade or more amply demonstrates that in just about every genre he gets the biggest success. Obviously one can’t do a direct comparison with some of these genres. On the other hand the other stars also prosper in their strength genres. It’s not as if they perform that way in genres that are not natural to them!
“On saying Devgan isn’t a box office force is clearly absurd. He’s not at the top of the pack by any means but he’s gained considerable steam within his comfort genres. ”
lol..so now u agree who should be credited for Bol Bachhan’s success…
when aamir’s films don’t get any highest openers, any biggest grossers etc. or something in that vicinity for the next 5 years, he’d be second-rung too.
Balkishan Shroff of Shringar Films told IANS: “Yes there has been a fall at the box office on Thursday. Many people refused to step out of their house on Thursday and sadly there was a loss of 30% to 35% of collection for the both the films.”
I was missing an essay from Satyam and here it came..When any Bachchan movie releases BOI,Komal,Taran reduce the nos and when any Srk movie comes they inflate the nos..
Actually didn’t say anything of the sort though I see ‘reading’ continues to be a challenge for you. Take their numbers if you like. There’s only a 4 crore difference between Taran’s and BOI’s at this point. I’ve seen 8 crore differentials on many films for a week 1 number and this might yet expand. My point though was that Taran and Nahata don’t seem to be going as crazy as they normally do. BOI similarly have seemed rather too restrained here. Otherwise we get hourly reports from all kinds of theaters for some other films!
I think JTHJ is not going to shatter any records as some expected.It will be an earner and will cetainly reach 120 crores as Satyam say. MAY BE EVEN A BIT MORE. SOS. OTOH in my books has exceeded expectations. Going up against JTHJ was a risky venture but it has held its own and may not be surprised if it catches up and even surpasses the daily gorsses of JTHJ.
No one is saying it’s doing badly. But what I’m saying is not very different from what you’ve just said. ‘Not doing badly at all’ is hardly a ringing endorsement for Yash Chopra’s last film with SRK and Katrina in it!
And while I concede the length and some of those other factors I don’t think they decided at some point ‘we can make a 2.5 hr movie that will do 175 crores but let’s just make a 3 hr film that doesn’t do too badly’!
The thing is that to get a big gross you need some cross-section of the audience truly charged about the film, hence giving it a big initial. My own sense is that no one was really excited about JTHJ. It’s just too late for this genre, it’s just too late for SRK, and it’s certainly too late for the two together! ‘Not badly at all’ or a bit better than this is probably all one can expect from this.
It has certainly hurt both films but IMO,SOS has emerged more unscathed in the battle. JTHJ will obviously collect more but that was a given. SOS could have folded up like Saawariyan or JTHJ could have performed like OSO but neither happened.
Releasing SOS a week later wouldn’t have made any difference, because the YRF agreement with the single screens was in force for two weeks. So I think they made the right decision to release it on Diwali (which was always their plan, anyway), to get whatever holiday advantage they could.
Before Talaash releases, think JTHJ will be at 115 crores and SOS will be around 105 crores.
After that Talaash will release and little will probably be added after that.
yes no one accounts for this stuff. everyone just lists all the disadvantages. Of course even Diwali is now evidently a bad season for releasing films. But there are enough crazies who keep looking for this date!
actually I think some of the other days are also mythologized in a different direction. Holidays always help. Specially towards the end of the year you have the combined effect of Christmas and New Year and a film can really capitalize on this. Eid is not quite the same thing though for certain reasons I am willing to concede that Salman is almost uniquely helped by the Eid factor more than anyone else! These theories are often not tested. Eid releases seem big because of course Salman keeps bringing a film on Eid. How many other big Eid releases did we see in the prior decade? Christmas/New Year are big but you also have a big Aamir or Salman or SRK (or whatever) film releasing. Don2 still couldn’t do anything close to a 3I around these dates despite being a sequel to a remake!
I’m not of course arguing that any holiday season doesn’t help. It does. But people tend to attach a mystical quality to these seasons. SRK had Diwali releases for many years but these films were going to work anyway and in many cases in a big way.
Ultimately there is no film whose box office trajectory is completely reshaped by these factors. At the margins it of course helps. With a film already doing very well and with strong WOM it can help more. So not denying the obvious.
There is not a huge buzz on JTHJ. Some people even mentioned the death of Yash Chopra would invigorate the box office to new heights.
The reality is simply this. SRK has not had a top grosser since 2007. 5 years. And next year it will be 6 years.
Katrina has been a lucky charm for many films and stars, but in JTHJ I am surprised at how little interest the onscreen fireworks should have garnered. My guess is Yash Chopra’s last film was bit too “dirty” from promos, bit too “revealing” and not the “clean” film people on Diwali like to see like a Veer Zaara. “All over” each other in a London telephone booth or waking up naked on the rooftop is not the deal wished for by the core audience, who idolised a poster boy due to family values, stealing the bride from the mandip with “clean” tactics, song sequences in Switzerland!
Emraan Hashmi could have been in this film!
The statement is full circle now. It was coined in 2004, only SRK or sex sell! Maybe SRK and sex don’t sell as well! There seemed a level of desperation to create a film with all these promos with Katrina and SRK sharing all these moments together.
Jay,
I think you have summed it up well.
‘Maybe SRK and sex don’t sell as well’ – thats a brilliant line.
SRK ( am not bashing him here) for all his appeal always seems kind of asexual. His core audience didnt like him doing that stupid song in OSO and am sure dont relish these scenes in JTHJ. This miscalculation is on Adi’s shoulders.Not SRK or Yash Chopra.
The fact remains that JTHJ could have been a lot more, much bigger as it had a lot going for it – SRK/YR reuniting,Katrina, Anushka Sharma, Rehman,Diwali release, comfort genre, Yashji’s sad demise – a kind of perfect storm from BO view point.
But, regardless of the eventual total, I dont think that potential has been realised. Some of it has to be the fact that SRK is not the force he was, some of it that the movie hasnt delivered.
@sm, sanjana, ami, an jo, old gold… i came across this shocking news.
The 31-year-old Indian dentist, who was seventeen weeks pregnant, went to the hospital with severe back pain. Within hours of being admitted, doctors told her she was miscarrying. The law in Ireland—which only allows for abortion if a woman’s life is in danger—prevented Savita from being able to end her pregnancy and her excruciating pain because there was still a fetal heartbeat present.
As Savita’s condition worsened over the course of three days, she and her husband begged doctors to end the doomed pregnancy. They refused, saying “this is Catholic country.”
Savita countered, “I am neither Irish nor Catholic.” Still, she was denied. That night she vomited repeatedly and collapsed in a restroom.
The following day, the fetus’s heartbeat finally stopped and it was removed by the doctors. But it was too late. Savita was transferred to the ICU where she died of sceptic shock.
Indeed sad and stunning and shocking.
Pro Life nut jobs!!
They are not really pro life. It is a stupid mind set that is exploited by religion and dubious politicians.
Very shocking, and surprising. I would have thought like Switzerland most western European countries had legalised abortion on grounds of safety and health of both the unborn baby or the mother.
Switzerland had done this way back.
Very tragic indeed.
I’m wondering whether it’s the first such case or there have been others. If there were other deaths why were the people not active about it?
I think some of the laws can be changed there by referendum.
Now in this age, and time. Woman are required to be protected. And i guess it’s quite communal minded thinking that they say it’s a catholic country.
Right to Life is above any other right, assuming there is no religion no law, still I or any human being anywhere has a Right to Live.
@oldgold, that’s a valid point, whether this is the first incident, or has it come in spotlight only because of this case… quite troubling if u r correct and this is order of the day…
If this is a rare case, many questions will be asked including the racial angle. If it had been their own, that is Irish, would the rules have been different?
I just recall one short story by Frederick Forsyth, in which an Indian student gets ill treated by his Irish employer(obviously due to racial prejudice) and how he takes revenge by bringing a rare poisonous snake from India to do the needful. Times have changed but attitudes wont change that easily.
There will always be individual cases sanjana. Hatred and illtreatmment exist for several other reasons too, and if it happens to be for a person of different race it gets termed as racial.
now they are making it about doctors and hospitals. when the law says it is illegal unless life-threatening, doctors have to make a judgment call. it is unfair when the exact terms of what life-threatening means can be so ill-defined. the only sane thing to do is make abortion legal. and now irish people, who are very much a part of what laws are passed in their country are expressing outrage. what hypocrisy! it is their fault that such archaic laws exist in their country, because they don’t want to see beyond their bible. they are all answerable for this mess.
if i participate any more in this discussion, i might lose my mind so i need to step away from this.
“If this is a rare case, many questions will be asked including the racial angle”
@ sanjana -though the outcome is rare (maternal death directly related to delay), this practice isn’t !
Ireland has a somewhat defunct primitive catholic tendencies
This lady has now become the poster girl for this movement —
It’s unfortunate she had to lose her life to give impetus to this movement
Believe me. Irish are very nice people. Lets not judge them on one very tragic and unfortunate incident.
The fact that they have reacted favourably should not be ignored.
It’s US that has changed the mentality of those that migrated generations ago.. No Irish is preaching against abortion as far as I know.
The lawwas just lying there with half hearted attempts at changing as no oine seems to have paid much attention.
About the irish –I agree with Oldgold
Irish in general are the most friendly, chirpy, relatively informal, jovial of European creatures
( Some of their females can be too ‘friendly’ though and have some friends)
But as far as their abortion laws are concerned–as anya said –‘archaic’ is the term
Time for them to grow beyond their local pub and bring out some changes n their laws
Btw even the Irish church has some skeletons n the cupboard-hope they are removed b4 being revealed…
The concerned doctor can’t even hide behind ‘religion’
Bcos the ‘victim’ /dying mother was NOT a catholic and in her religion, this requimernt wasn’t there
So why is the Irish state imposing its religious agenda to other religions ?
Why is this not a human rights issue ?
Ps–
Maybe docs like anya can ‘throw more light ‘( when she gets time from her busy schedules)
Yes; read about this a couple of days back….the first thing that came to my mind is what that GOP member said about child-birth after rape being a God’s gift…It is almost as if nature or ‘God’ wanted to show him the opposite!
@Rooney: I’ve been following this story for several days now, mainly in the Irish Times. I’m sorry to see both the issue and the Irish people so mischaracterized here.
If you read the Irish Times you will get the full history of how the abortion issue has been handled there. At one time it was completely prohibited, under any circumstance, for any reason, and yes, this was due to the influence of the Catholic Church. However, 20 years ago, there was a case of a 14 year old girl who had been raped, and became pregnant in consequence. Her parents wanted her to have an abortion and petitioned for an exception to the law, which was denied. Then they wanted to take her to England to have the abortion, but that was also blocked for some reason which I can’t remember now. I do remember the frenzy of the arguments, because obviously time is of the essence. This is something that the anti-abortion forces never acknowledge. The “safe” period for abortion is supposed to be in the first 12 weeks of the pregnancy, with allowable risk up to 16 weeks. After that, as I understand, it becomes medically inadvisable, unless there is some risk to the mother to allow the pregnancy to continue. But the point is that it’s usually at leasts 6 weeks before a woman realizes she might be pregnant, and, if she has any irregularity of menses at all, she might wait another month or two to be sure, at which time she’s already in the boundary of the “safe” period. So these decisions really do have to be made and implemented almost immediately. That was the case with this teenager, and my memory is that she was forced to carry the pregnancy to full term because of the delays caused by all the legal posturing. But I could be wrong, and she might have gotten the abortion after all. The reason I’m not sure is that I have described the case as I remember it, but it is also the case that is repeatedly referred to in all the news reports as ”
Case X”, with many of the same particulars. At any rate, 20 years ago, Case X, of the pregnant raped teenage girl, set the precedent for a change in the law, where they now made an exception to allow for abortion if the “life” of the mother was in danger. They could use this clause in Case X because the girl was in severe depression as a result of the rape and pregnancy, and suicidal.
But, having made the exception in the constitution, the Irish parliament nevertheless took no action to actually enact a law spelling out under what circumstances an abortion could legally be performed, while the laws detailing the penalties for illegally performing an abortion were crystal clear, and served as a good deterrent to doctors.
During those 20 years, there have been several referendums in which the Irish people overwhelmingly voted in favor of having legal abortion, but again, the politicians did not fulfill the demand, because it was too touchy a topic. There is a strong anti-abortion lobby, which seems to be the majority (unlike in the U.S.), as well as some influence from the Catholic Church. It’s important to note that the influence of the Church as a religious institution has been greatly waning during these 20 years, especially in light of various scandals that came out and greatly shocked the populace. Nevertheless, most people identify themselves as “Catholic” on the census form, even if they’ve never been to church in their whole lives. One interesting comment that I read at the Irish Times was that, though the people of Ireland don’t actually care much for either religion or the Catholic Church, they nevertheless see their identification of being “Catholic” as an important way of distinguishing themselves from the English, and maintaining their identity. So there are many factors operating behind the (out of proportion) influence of the Catholic Church, most of which have nothing to do with the general public actually agreeing with Catholic dogma.
An important reason why this state of limbo continued for so long is apparently that people who wanted an abortion simply went to the UK (which is quite close by and relatively easy to access). Now with this case, you have a situation where the patient is not in a state to travel, so that option is out, and the situation went to extremes.
So the debate (and investigation) now is on the two fold question of: (1) Did the doctors know that they could, in fact, perform the abortion under these circumstances, and not be under threat of legal reprisal? This speaks to whether or not the current legal language is too ambiguous, and whether a clear law needs to be enacted (and not just a principle of the right to abortion recognized); and (2) Did the doctors recognize that the patient was in fact in a life threatening situation? If not, then that justifies their not performing the abortion, since it would not meet the terms of the exception provided for in the legal position. This hesitation on the doctors’ part could be either because there was a genuine medical ambiguity in the case, or because they were incompetent or negligent, though the latter possibility is not being pushed very much at this stage, because the matter is under investigation.
As to the much repeated quote of “This is a Catholic country”, I think it is being quoted very much out of context, or is incomplete. To me it sounds like the frustrated answer to a desperate question from the patient as to why she couldn’t get an abortion when she asked, not that they expected everyone to conform to Catholic beliefs. I find it especially telling that all the Indians are reacting with “She is a Hindu and should be treated according to Hindu laws” — alas, so deeply is the different treatment of different religious practitioners engrained in Indian law! They can’t even conceive of a country where the same law applies to everyone.
I think the charges of racism are outrageous, but alas, again this is a knee jerk reaction among Indians, without bothering to learn anything about the situation in question. As soon as the case became known, there have been, and continue to be, large protests and demonstrations in support of Savita and her husband. Heck, the case only came to international notice because of these protests! What has become clear to me from reading all the different articles, though, is that the pro choice forces in Ireland are very much in the minority, with the anti-abortion crowd still holding the sway. So whether anything meaningful comes as a result of the protests and investigation remains to be seen. I don’t have much hopes, because already the public debate is being shaped toward the position that there was no clear cut danger to the mother’s life — i.e., that there was medical ambiguity. This is a good face saving measure that won’t punish anyone, and still maintain the status quo. There was apparently a statement issued by a panel of ob/gyns a few months ago, saying that the present laws were adequate, as there wasn’t much likelihood of a mother’s life being in danger, or something like that. I am just paraphrasing, but essentially they upheld the current legal situation and said that there was no need for any new laws. Please note that this has nothing to do with Savita’s case, as it was an independent medical conference that was held before Savita even entered the hospital.
Oh, one last point is that the European Human Rights Commission (or whatever) “demanded” some years ago that Ireland needs to revise its laws to be in conformity with European norms, and two years ago the UN Human Rights Commission also said the same, but both of these bodies don’t[ have any enforcement powers.
“The “safe” period for abortion is supposed to be in the first 12 weeks of the pregnancy, with allowable risk up to 16 weeks. After that, as I understand, it becomes medically inadvisable”
In States, it is 24 weeks. During 19-20th week they do big ultra sound on fetus to detect Down sysndrome (you get to know Sex also) and people can choose to abort at that time.
Certainly there is no racism involved but their laws are archaic and need to change. I was talking with a colleague and he also said that people want change but politicians don’t. Then ofcourse the discussion veered in that direction that we get what we choose. We normally vote on on one issue we like but the candidtate represents party and they adhere to multiple policies. Ideally we should select the candidate and we should also vote for policies they should reperesent.
ps – It is ironic here in States that poorer states vote for Republican (whose policy is you are free to do whatever you want and no Govt help) and Richer States vote for Democrats (who are for higher taxes and more Govt).
Yes, it’s legal up to 24 weeks (or even later) in the U.S., but at that point, as you said, it’s done for definite reasons such as potential birth defects, complications of the pregnancy, risk to the mother, etc. Most people who opt for “abortion on demand” do so within the first trimester, and certainly the longer you wait, the higher the risk of complications.
It is rare that you want baby and change you mind later in pregnancy. In any case people have option of giving up the baby (upto 3 day of delivery) at any fire station.
@Munna: No, I was referring to those rare cases where complications develop into the ninth month, and it becomes necessary to abort. I agree that the people who go that far want the baby and are forced into aborting due to medical issues. This is the “partial birth abortion” bugaboo that Republicans try to scare voters with. Very rare, and usually necessary for medical reasons.
The real irony is that poorer states vote Republican and for the principle of “taking responsibility for yourself” and “no government handouts” — receive the highest amount of “government handouts” from richer states which vote Democratic. 🙂 (Just like white people make up the highest number of welfare recipients, despite the propaganda about shiftless blacks getting rich on welfare)
the ‘sense of relief’
It’s good to see a sense of relief here after a few days of ‘eerie silence’!
Good to see Satyam also coming up with some box price predictions now after a few day of release -it’s good to be cautious after ETT200 & barfi100 🙂
Another observation is satyam was ‘holding back’ his predictions till after seeing initial trends –but good to see him finally giving our some eventual figues
As for me-no such issues–
The reality-
>As mentioned earlier-ra1 saw the death of the ‘king’ and with JTHJ-the official swansong of the Rahul/raj figure..
>JTHJ is indeed doing well, moreso overseas, but that’s expected and could have been better
> though this time the competition is bigger but still..
> SOS is doing better than expected–had mentioned this from the massy promos –& this is what’s happened
Well done SOS team-facts are facts
> basically SOS is doing what no other film could -even those of the biggies
There are reasons-srk decline etc but credit is due to devgun
Devgun seems to have finally risen in the eyes of Kajol after decades of cuckolded silence -better late than never
A small thing though-
Arent the figures been mentioned here India figues
Think the chiasm is bigger overseas –but perhaps that’s not being taken into account ..
So to summarise -both both films doing well–for jthj it was expected — but SOS is exceeding expectation
Good luck to both
Don’t believe I ever said anything about the Barfi box office. On ETT I still stand by everything I’ve said. Your repetitions on this matter are not going to change my mind! Just as evidently my arguments on this are never going to comprehensible to you! I accept in good faith that you understand English so will leave that possibility off the table! I know you’re still smarting over Cocktail and how I don’t quite consider it the mind-bending classic you do but hey you’ll have to get over it! Incidentally I did say that the RNBDJ kind of fate was the most likely one for JTHJ.
“Devgun seems to have finally risen in the eyes of Kajol after decades of cuckolded silence -better late than never’
Man is there anything in life for you that is not reducible to this kind of stuff?! You would keep a psychoanalyst very happy if you ever went in for the sessions!
“Don’t believe I ever said anything about the Barfi box office. ”
Haha Satyam that’s the denial of the century !!
Don’t wanna go into the details -no more rubbing of wounds
I asked u for your box office predictions for JTHJ/SOS many times last week–
But good to see u finally obliged AFTER three days of releas and indicators
Don’t u worry Satyam-I’m not here to ‘catch u out’
We all can go wrong–nothing wrong it that 😉
and you still haven’t obliged. i beleive i asked you more than once but you scurried away. come on, be a man now. how much to be considered a not-flop? an actual number like you have given for talaash.
Oops anya
What nobody could do, u have achieved -cornered me 😉
Well, let’s say that with a 100crore–JTHJ won’t be flop
Also bcos overseas it is /will be doing even better–though the numbers aren’t shown here routinely for that..
But 100 crores won’t be respectable for JTHJ–
Though the same for SOS will be …
I can’t offend either of u -anya & Oldgold
So let’s go for a midpoint –between 100 & 150 (Oldgolds projected expectation for talaash)–125
Happy 😉
Btw anya –how was the visit to the ‘church’…
Or did ya watch JTHJ today ha
Testing the limits of the market!
Have been seeing satyams trending graphs which always seem to carry on at the same ‘slope’ well into 100, 125, 150, 175 & can even be hypothetically stretched to 200, 225 upto 300(!!) with the same slope…
The question though-
Does the ‘slope’ remain constant in these graphs–no
Only in hypothetical markets
So while one can ‘juxtapose’ & assume –things simply lose steam after 100 or so and then it takes much longer for lesser additions
Diwali being a suboptimal time to release etc -i don’t buy that!
With two films with good buzz and none of the tanking–
This is a good model to test what the uppoer limits of this market is (@ the current situation)
Bcos even ‘expanding’ markets have a limit –these extrapolations which keep going on and on can only be used in hypotheticals situations for eg to pull down a bonafide near 200 crore grosser ETT
In other words —after ETT200& barfi100–
This JTHJ/SOS ‘bonanza’ may bring an END to this
LIMITLESS EXTRAPOLATION… Let’s see 🙂
“Does the ‘slope’ remain constant in these graphs–no”
according to Hollywood analysts and those of every other professional industry around the world… YES. But you might know more. Hey what do those dummies who made TDK or Avatar or Avengers know?
Btw it takes longer to get the second 100 crore in a 200 crore grosser (if there was one)
If the ‘slope’ was that ‘constant’-why this difference?
The reality is that this ‘slope’ is inversely proportional to the time since release And even that decline in slope isn’t at a fixed constant
ie slope falls much quicker after 150 crore than between 100-150 crore
The basic premise being–
The gap between 200- 225 >> 100-125 and so on
This is also happening due to an inherent ‘fatigue’ or limit in market /paying capacity of all potential viewers @ that time
So a universally liked ‘perfect’ film should go upto 1000croes or more as per those tending charts
But in reality, starts loses steam around 225
And as per these simultaneous releases–the cumulative market may not be the vulgarly projected figures being thrown around
^ Satyam -do opine and advise about this innocent question of slope above
Though those who made TDKR, avatar etc were illuminates from ‘superior Hollywood’ even they can’t go against the basics of mathematics!
It is IMpossible–just like 2+2 has only ONE possible answer–no matter who says it !!
The confounding factor here (that people have been hiding or are oblivious of) is the MUCH bigger markets of Hollywood releases – some of which are simultaneous
, some are not –given the grand scale and proportion, this complex mix may make it ‘appear’ a constant ‘slope’ but the reason isn’t consistent ‘trending’ (only)
And all those srk fans saying Diwali isnt that good–c’mon
It’s the BEST slot –
With a start On Tuesday carrying onto Sunday it’s a dream opportunity
No Spin
While it seems both films will reach past 100–for
Only one will it be a respectable deal –SOS!!
So no ifs no buts–
If SOS does 100 crores here-it’s done v well !
We also need to remember 2 things- 1) The budget of JTHJ is much more than SOS (2) The distributor sitting in, say Kanpur, will get absolutely nothing from the overseas collections. Btw Satyam have u seen the SOS director’s debut film Atithi Tum Kab Jaoge- a nice little toned-down comedy where both Paresh and Devgn did a good job. Much better than SOS, BB and Golmaals. And it did decently at BO too
“We also need to remember 2 things- 1) The budget of JTHJ is much more than SOS ”
What is the budget of both the films and do u know what is the amount of distribution rights for SOS?? Also try to find out the publicity cost for both the movies…
@Bhalo_Manush,people are discussing budget and revenues of films here without knowing ABCD about both.JTHJ is a Yashraj film and has been distributed by YRF themselves.SOS has been produced by Ajay devgan films and VIacom18.This film has been sold to Euros at the cost of 80 cr plus.So SOS has to recover more than JTHJ to become a hit at boxoffice.
“If SOS does 100 crores here-it’s done v well !
That will give only 55 cr distribution share from India.Since film is not going to do more than 10cr from overseas and hence will be a flop at 100 cr domestic
“And all those srk fans saying Diwali isnt that good–c’mon
It’s the BEST slot -”
who said Diwali isn’t good…the Diwali day only affects business..but the Diwali period is one of the best time to release a movie…try to understand the difference between the Diwali day and Diwali period…
I do NOT believe in spins –will repeat the same thing–
For SOS–if it does 100 crores –it’s dne it’s job!
Anything more is a bonus
Devgun has salvaged his pride (ESP with Kajol/srk angle lol)
For JTHJ–
It’s difficult since the real ‘difference’ is overseas
Where JTHJ is much ahead –but those are not the figures being supplied here –& won’t be either !!
But though 100 crore will be welcome–for JTHJ it has to do more!
For talash–
180 😉
As i said above an Indian distributor doesn’t get a single penny from the overseas collection. Of course when MNIK SRK fans and media were using the same absurd to call it a hit when it grossed as much as TMK which was declared a flop
One is not arguing is the money goes to the Indian distributor or the call girl he indulges with or his gay partner or their illicit lovers!
The movies earnings are being compared-domestic predominantly
Wth the growth of the overseas markets–they have to be compared as well ideally
Though I get the point that a film that tanks domestically but des better overseas can’t be called a ‘salvaged film’ …
In my mind however–the overseas market has more ‘significance’ than jus the dollars /pounds
It has a certain ‘strategic importance’ that can’t be underestimated
Any industry that talks of ‘crossing over’ etc needs f look at overseas as well as those of the folks sitting n singe screens of Bihar !
Time for JTHJ now folks —
Hopefully Seeing JTHJ v shortly–(if not diverted /distracted to other stuff)–been busy till now- an ‘entourage’ including some ‘unconventional’ Bollywood viewers–good thing is it is subtitled !
Will be good to ‘guide’ the uninitiated into the Bollywood ‘traditions’-and interesting to get European (female) reactions as well..
Watch out for The most ‘unbiased’ review in a couple of hours haha
Ps: btw the other good thing about the spoof—
While katrina & anushka will be ‘kissed’ and ‘loved’ onscreen–anya, Oldgold and Amy will also be … 😉
Err shouldn’t forget sanjana–though director –she will also be v much part of this
Cocktailesque ‘tribute’ to yash chopra and perhaps to the seminal appeal of srk in this genre
vv sehwag has won India more tests than these others not due to the runs but the pace he scores them with and the psychological dominance he unleashes ibt eh bowlers -most of the others saved more tests than won(with due respect to their obvious stature)
JTHJ ultra-Review shortly
Since when did people start calling the flies buzzing around in their apartment while they watch a pirated DVD, an entourage??
The constant posturing is rather pathetic and annoying.
LOL! Rajen- if only Alex’s entourage of Eastern European females was not composed of imaginary friends and actually contained real women- then we might have been spared his constant disturbing fantasises (sorry ‘spoofs’) of female bloggers whom he has never even met! 😛
Haha there seems some ‘angst’&’anxiety’ here
Well, one can’t see a movie alone-so company consists of friends/neighbours/colleagues, sometimes subordinates–here it helped to get some srk fans 😉
Anyhow-this phenomenon of seeing ‘flies’ & ‘pirated DVDs’ (where none exist) reminds me of a fredian deal called ‘projection’ with/out ‘transference’
May this anxiety of some be resolved haha
Though glad that India has hammered England, what with Viru’s run- a-ball ton, is it fair then to conclude that the present crop (excluding the Trimurti of Tendlya, Dravid, and Laxman) of players can be knighted ‘Flat-pitch Bullies?’ Of course, I am also welcome to the corollary of calling England ‘Green-top bullies’!!
ya, rajen.. and can u believe one of my friend clicked a pic with Pujara, and i said just in fun i guess hope u are lucky for him, and he cracked a double ton, i read it on front page of times!! which also had a pic of his fiancee.. hope the lad devolop strongly dont follow cricket, but new generation needs new heroes.
Ireland anti-abortion law forces thousands of women to move to England for termination.
Chief Executive of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service Ann Furedi said that every year 5,000 women come to England for abortions. Savita could not escape the law because she was in no condition to leave.
The Irish laws regarding abortion are absolutely shameful- it’s incredibly difficult to believe that a developed European nation has such backward practises- hopefully this tragic incident leads to some change on this front.
Top ALL TIME Openings: Jab Tak Hai Jaan 8th Son Of Sardaar 17th
Jab Tak Hai Jaan has taken the 8th highest opening of all time while Son Of Sardaar is 17th. Both films should finish higher in the first week list as they have a favourable period for days 4-6. The top opening weekends in the history of Hindi film industry in terms of nett collections are listed below.
JTHJ was not able to break DON 2 or Ra One records and similarly Son of Sardar couldn’t break Golmaal 3 record which was set in 2010..
SOS affected JTHJ by diving the multiplex shows which was the strength of JTHJ …and similarly SOS was affected due to unavailability of single screens..In case of solo release it would have been a different story altogether..
Interestingly apart from Ra one none of the SRK’s diwali releases were clear releases. But he missed the opportunity last year…If Ra one was at least a average product like Main hoon na then it could have done wonders at the BO…
I just saw a very intelligent, witty romance called Liberal Arts- it’s about a relationship that develops over a shared love for idealistic conversation. I enjoyed it immensely and would reccomend it to people who like films like Before Sunrise/ Sunset (although it’s obviously not quite in that league) and Certified Copy. Elisabeth Olsen is the female lead and she delivers another winning performance after Martha, Marcy, May, Marlene.
BTW Satyam- have you seen certified copy? what did you think of it?
Atlast the late Yashji inadvertently broke the myth that Katrina can emote. Maybe that must have broken his heart! Watching Katrina in his film.
Here he took a leaf out of Raj Kapoor who used Zeenat Aman in SSS and Yashji also introduced all those steamy scenes to fill the gap on the emotional front.
Female stars willingly go to any lengths with no inhibitions on the acting front if the Producer director is a famous name.
Katrina was fine in ZNMD, and New York too she wasn’t terrible. But give her a trick role and she is an unqualified failure. Like Race, where she had a negative role and
Similar with JTHJ, where she tries her best, but finally it’s a role and situation that requires you to take such giant leaps of faith, that only a truly gifted actress could have made the circumstances credible. Of course, even in portions of her romance with SRK, Katrina is pretty useless and you can see the desperation of the makers to steam up proceedings. It’s not Kat’s fault alone. The script has issues, but just that she doesn’t help the film’s cause one bit.
Saturday 17th November 2012 12.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan collected around 10.25 crore nett on its fourth day. The total for four days is 55 crore nett plus
The film held up better at multiplexes of all the big cities as compared to Son of Sardaar. Gujarat is a holiday so that circuit is holding up best. The best business is in Mumbai circuit where the film has grossed over 21.50 crore and Mysore where it has crossed 3.50 crore nett.
Jab Tak Hai Jaan should show a healthy jump on Saturday as its stronger circuits like Mysore tend to show huge jumps on Saturday though being a Tuesday release could curtail the jump. The film at the moment is on course to hit a century over its extended ten day first week.
Saturday 17th November 2012 12.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar collected around 8 crore nett on its fourth day. The total for four days is 42 crore nett approx.
The film had a fall in multiplex areas as it was a working day but areas like UP, Rajasthan and CI held up strongly. The film is doing its best business in Rajasthan, the desert state is even better than East Punjab comparatively as Jab Tak Hai Jaan is doing better in some parts of East Punjab circuit.
Gujarat is still a holiday so the film is holding up strong there enabling Mumbai circuit to put strong numbers. Rajasthan has comfortably crossed 3 crore nett while CI is at 2.25 crore which are fantastic numbers for four days and a big Sunday still to come.
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Takes Highest Ever Opening In Pakistan
Saturday 17th November 2012 11.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan took the highest ever opening in Pakistan collecting around $100,000 on Friday and Thursday paid previews.
The film beat records of such films as Don and Bodyguard which were previosuly the highest openers in Pakistan.
This Pakistan market is growing for Hindi films as it was 2008 when Singh is Kinng set a record by collecting over $100,000 in a week and now we have a film collecting almost $100,000 in one day.
@Rooney: Yes am seeing this piece of news now. So indeed there was contradiction between what the doctors said and the family said about his condition…
Just hope there is no blood-shed and property damage..and the most that will be affected in case this happens is the man on the street that makes a day-to-day living; the cycle-shop owner, the pav-bhaji/vada-pav wala’s mobile shop, and the like..which is painful to see since they are not ‘living’ a life but eking out a life out of what they have..
LOL at the pic of Thackeray’s grand-kid sitting on Jackson’s lap. If he had an inkling of how Jackson would come to be partly-defined with child-molestation, I don’t think this picture would have made it…
Outlook review by Namrata Joshi-
Jab Tak Hai Jaan
Way too old-fashioned for comfort, riddled with absurd twists: it’s abrupt, hurried and awkward.http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?282981
There are two very different and incongruous worlds that JTHJ attempts to merge. The Kat-SRK love story is way too old-fashioned and fantasy-like, while the Anushka parts are overtly modern and brazen. I believe one cannot cherry pick from a novel like that, taking its theme but leaving out its nuances. Then the story is always going to look half-baked.
The parts with Anushka appealed the most to me, cause there was no real absurdity there. It seemed like a different film, and I found myself very moved in these portions.
SRK’s kiss story ? JTHJ demanded it!
New Delhi,Cinema/Showbiz, Fri, 16 Nov 2012IANS
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New Delhi, Nov 16 (IANS) Shah Rukh Khan had made a rule for himself ? never kiss on screen, but he has made an exception for Yash Chopra’s “Jab Tak Hai Jaan” (JTHJ). The superstar says he was “forced” to kiss this time, and says it was only a demand of the script.
“I had a couple of rules actually ? that I won’t ride a horse and I won’t kiss. Both are cumbersome. I don’t know how to do both on screen,” Shah Rukh said at the Hindustan Times Leadership Summit 2012 here Friday.
Ever since the release of Yash Chopra’s directorial JTHJ Tuesday, social networking platforms have been abuzz about the kiss scene between Shah Rukh and Katrina Kaif. So, moderator Vir Sanghvi, on behalf of Twitterati, asked SRK: How come he kissed this time!
“I will be very honest. Adi (Aditya Chopra), Yash ji and Katrina, and I say this with all humility and thankfulness to them, that they knew I was awkward, I had issues and I am a very easy actor to work with. They are like my family and they said, ‘You don’t have to do this’ and then they got together and they forced me and then even paid me for it.”
“So… when heroines say that ‘I wore a bikini because the story demanded me to’, I did it (the kiss) because the story demanded it. Believe me or don’t believe it,” said the 47?year?old actor, who has been in showbiz for over two decades.
Shah Rukh feels doing something as intimate as a kiss on screen, is mechanical.
“It is very mechanical with 100 people telling you what to do. It’s very odd. I don’t even do photoshoots with heroines if it is not for my film and that is also rude, but I don’t want to waste anyone’s time. I find it very awkward taking my shirt off and posing. I can do it in character for film,” he said.
I’ve seen people appreciate cinema like Rowdy Rathore and ETT for their crowd-friendly, masala elements while dissing JTHJ completely. After coming back from Yash Chopra’s last film, I can’t help but feel sorry for poor SRK (whom I had stopped liking long back) and wonder what makes both his onscreen and offscreen persona such a turnoff for people who attack him unnecessarily (their attacks reflecting sadistic glee on many occasions). Point is, if ETT and RR can be enjoyed with a dont-bring-your-brains kind of expectations, why cant this SRK starrer be appreciated for its worth.
It’s not perfect; in fact it is far from being one, with sequences bordering on the ludicrous to the impossible-to-digest, but I enjoyed watching it despite its flaws. There’s something about the film that stays with you – probably it has something to do with Yash Chopra’s magic touch that he so effortlessly inculcates in every film of his. Give him a weak story and a bad screenplay, yet he’d do something with the resources that he’d end up making a film with a lot of heart. and that’s what JTHJ is. A vintage SRK-Chopra romance. Stay away if you dont like this genre. It will put you off to sleep. Yet for those who still believe in the ‘true love stands the test of time’ dictum, this might just be the film you’ve been looking for in the era of Yo-generation’s Cocktails and Student of the Years and what not.
I personally liked it. Good to see SRK back in his romantic avatar and doing a good job in the film. This is what he should be doing rather than playing cocky Dons and clueless superheros
Tony- I don’t know who this comment is meant for- but I walked out of RR and I didn’t watch ETT- and I happen to appreciate most of the SRK-Chopra romances from DDLJ to Veer-Zaara. However I still did not like JTHJ in the least. Replacing Kajol with Katrina and trying so hard to add a ‘modern’ aspect to the story just made me feel like they were descerating their own legacy.
wasnt referring to you or anyone at SS at all ( i think most people here are quite unbiased and balanced in their opinions, including you), but the general thoughts at work when an SRK film is involved.
on the film, i dnt think the film was trying to be a modern attempt at anything (unless u talk about the awkward kisses). it worked for me, one of the reasos being it was made by a man who let his emotions do the talking that reflected in his films, rather than adding modern / commercial elements to garner the extra crores
The kisses were tremendously awkward, but I’m actually referring to Anushka’s character- I liked her performance the best of all three leads, but her ‘romance’ with SRK was so silly and one-sided, and the entire track was pretty pointless and added very little to the overall story of the film.
It’s funny that you say this: “it worked for me, one of the reasos being it was made by a man who let his emotions do the talking that reflected in his films, rather than adding modern / commercial elements to garner the extra crores”
because I do feel like they just shoehorned her in as a modern/ commercial element to garner the extra crores. From her introductory bikini shot to her constant dialouges about sex and modernity, everything about Akira felt so hollow and gratituous to me.
And the casting of Katrina, as well as the way she was presented in the film, were nothing but commercial choices IMO.
You may be right about Anushka – frankly i never paid enough attention to her dialogues, nor did mind her viewpoints. everyone’s entitled to a POV in democracy. oops.. 🙂 lol
Agree about Katrina though. she was grossly ineffective, and easily the worst thing about it
BTW- I’m not trying to argue with your take on the film, I can see where you are coming from, and your review does seem extremely reasonable to me. But I also do not think that you have to be a biased SRK hater in order to find this film awful: after all, it does have a downright ridiculous plot, a leading man who is a little too old to be reprising his loverboy role for the nth time, a leading lady who redefines insipid and a spirited supporting actress who is limited by a caricaturish role.
Some people can overlook all of these flaws and embrace the nostalgic YRF magic, some people cannot look past these glaring faults, and end up loathing the film. Both view points seem valid to me.
You make a fair point, and the deft YC touches are probably what I chose to embrace rather than looking for the flaws people keep mentioning of. I didnt mind SRK at all – thought he was pretty effective ; in certain scenes he delivered lines like no other actor could. My problem with him was he looked a little too old in the first half (still wondering why Katrina fell for him with those wrinkles and saggy skin – should have kept the beard throughout).
and with a better actress instead of katrina the film could’ve turned out to be much better IMO..
Ami, i am not sure if u have seen it but an excellent SRK romantic film is “Kabhi Haa Kabhi Naa” (this is from SRK’s younger days and of course it is not by YRF. It is directed by Kundan Shah who made that excellent comedy Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron)
I don’t know what to believe.
-It’s an old fashioned love story and very outdated, from a senile man
or – it is trying hard to be modern
THis is not aimed at anyone’s comment, just a summary of all the negative reviews.
THank you Tony for a well balanced review.
From people I know this is exactly what they say – it isn’t perfect, lots of loopholes – yet there is something one takes back , and remembers the film afterwards – which can’t be said for most films, forgotten the moment you proceed to the next thing you have to do.
Great to know ur thoughts Tony, insightful as always. Iska matlab film itni buri bhi nahi hai, kamsekam SOS se to behtar hogi. ETT was boring but i liked RR and saw it twice in the theatre (would say that u can’t have a direct comparison between JTHJ and RR since they belong to different ‘landscapes’ altogether). Having said that RR was no high-art and I far prefer Akki’s own Mohra to it
thats a succinct and sensible take on JTHJ, Tony^
Well expressed and u have put it into the context rightly…
Perhaps the only comment apart from sandyi which seems ‘balanced’ on JTHJ
Watched JTHJ myself yesterday and though full of flaws/loopholes/cliches (which weren’t unexpected) trying to explain it to most here seems useless since closed/biased/inexperienced minds can be changed only upto a point 😉
this in a way brings back nostalgic memories of real hindi film romances, those that dont believe in practicalities and moving ahead with time.. this is what Yash Chopra cinema signifies and what he revels in. this film should be enjoyed as a movie – not something that should be rejected on the basis of its theme that is not “real”.
and must say, I liked SRK here despite his looks in the first half. i think he’s still got that easy charm. preferred him to both his leading ladies
Agree with both points Tony
May jot down some randomness on it too /was a bit lazy n ‘spent’ from a late viewing ..
As I said earlier –srk would be the last person to fail this film
As for box office -it may not be a monster, but it wont underperform either ..
At first, we think it’s empty hero-giri. Samar (Shah Rukh Khan), a classic loner, is not with the others of his bomb-defusing team, one of whom struggles to make sense of the tangle of wires in an explosive device at a Leh marketplace. Samar rides in on his motorbike alone, a little later, and when he gets to work, an onlooker remarks that he will not wear a bomb suit. After all, he hasn’t worn one while defusing close to 100 bombs thus far – a record, which fetches him the title The Man who Cannot Die. More remarks follow that build Samar up, in our eyes, as some sort of outrageous superhero. The onlooker says, “Iski aankhon mein aaj tak maut ka dar nahin dekha,” that he’s never seen in Samar’s eyes the fear of death, and he adds that Samar walks up to explosive devices as if walking into a girlfriend’s arms. It all seems to be little but empty hero-giri, the kind of image-stoking, ego-massaging scenario that every big star writes into his contract.
But slowly we see that Samar is no reckless hero, that he has a death wish, that he’s really The Man who Wants to Die. For love, naturally. Yash Chopra’s Jab Tak Hai Jaan (co-written by Aditya Chopra) is something of a companion piece to Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi (which the younger Chopra directed). Here too, we’re treated to two flavours of Shah Rukh Khan – one silent and withdrawn, one the exuberant embodiment of life itself. Here too, we have Anushka Sharma, playing a Discovery Channel filmmaker named Akira, torn between these two personas – except that, this time, she falls for the introvert. And here too, the big guy up in the sky plays a pivotal part. This time, though, it’s a different god, one who hangs on a crucifix and whom Samar refers to as Sir Jesus. In other words, we’re watching Christ Ne Bana Di Jodi, which could be the title of the translation of Graham Greene’s novel The End of the Affair.
This has got to be THE best line written about JTHJ:
“And what can we say of Kaif? She’s staggeringly ineffective, and she gets countless close-ups to offer us repeated proof of the fact. How can such a heavy role be entrusted to someone so lifeless in front of the camera? She’s like a little girl with an Easy-Bake Oven trying to manufacture loaves for multitudes gathered on a mountaintop. That’s a miracle beyond even Sir Jesus.”
Haha…I saw “Moonrise Kingdom” yesterday. Quite an unrealistic love story of two 12 year old kids. But I think the Love Story depicted was far better than any love story we have seen in Bollywood in last 2-3 years 🙂
ps – There were more comments in that thread after the subtlety comment.
>Quite unrealistic love story of two 12 year old kids. But I think the Love Story depicted was far better than any love story we have seen in Bollywood in last 2-3 years
As I said, personal tastes is what we seem to be discussing here.
*This* may be your taste, I’m sure I’d be getting impatient with two twelve year olds getting subtle about their ‘love’ LOL!!!
It is not exactly taste. It is matter of making a movie well made, within whatever framework you are working in. Genres where I have issue(s) or I cannot watch are Zombies and slashers (Though I have seen many).
>There were more comments in that thread after the subtlety comment.
Regarding subtlety? All I found was;
>It’s all very well to be subtle and subdued, but when God worms his way into a love affair between a poor boy and a rich girl, we expect upheavals of Biblical proportions. After a while, the low-key nature of the happenings begin to lull us into a stupor.
The last bit is what I mentioned about subtlety being boring earlier on. There are people who *have* found the proceedings boring.
If you saw anything more about subtlety in his writing, please could you point it out?
What follows this is more review. There are things he spoke positively about and other things negatively (which were exactly
what everybody with a balanced review have been saying).
Romance(with Drama) needs to be subtle (Unlike say romance of Twilight). Action is going to be loud. My point is when you are depiciting regular romance, you need to be more realistic than other genres.
“This time, though, it’s a different god, one who hangs on a crucifix and whom Samar refers to as Sir Jesus. In other words, we’re watching Christ Ne Bana Di Jodi, which could be the title of the translation of Graham Greene’s novel The End of the Affair.”
“But most puzzlingly, we’re never clued in to why this Punjabi girl worships at the altar of Jesus. We are all free to choose our own deliverers, of course, but wouldn’t it have helped to show how this bond was forged in the first place? (The novel’s Catholic guilt, on the other hand, is instantly understandable.) All we see is Meera transacting with Sir Jesus: “Give me this, and I’ll give up that.” It sounds like child’s play, not a deep-rooted belief system.”
My only thing is: anything is possible, but it has to look plausible and explained.
And here i would like to expand, further from this movie, this is my fear in most movies
1) Wedding takes place in churches this days
2) brides will wear white color catholic/chrsitian gown
3) and now this Kat worshipping Jesus.
I have nothing against this or any community or religion, but we see that this bonds are not explained or established, which is fearful as they promote A different religion through the avatars of the greatest superstars of this country.
I feel if a character does something, which is unusual for a reasonable man, it has to be explained, and made to look plausible.
>which is fearful as they promote A different religion through the avatars of the greatest superstars of this country.
What are you fearful of? That people will start worshipping a different God?
You keep posting disclaimers, but express sentiments which provoke me to say exactly what I remarked earlier.
We agree to disagree Miss ? As u are reading political language, while i am speaking strictly cinematic language, politics is not my field, nor i am expert there.
You are innocently misinterpreting religion and politics at blog about cinema, review of a movie, comment on movies in different perspective.
(but just for am explaining, what u are misinterpreting)
1) I posted a quote of review for non explanation of concept.
2) I spoke about how scenes should be contructed.
3) i spoke unviersally of a tendency of non explaination of the following of a different religion
4) i fear of such lousy filmmaking!!
5) fearful word can mean different things
6) read it conjointly with above, and it shall take a cinematic color in the language of interpretation.
I am least concerned with what people will follow, that is solemn choice of an individual. The Constitution of this Country bestows that right to an individual.
And yeah i have a religion, and this is called “Secular”.
Yeah. OK. Good write up about…(?)
It’s not about the point under discussion. Which is;
> they promote A different religion through the avatars of the greatest superstars of this country.
Note: I’ve not quoted the word ‘fear’.
Justify your statement “promotion of a different religion” – and the mention of this concept and analysis from what you saw in the film….this promotion.
Most others have left it at – why is a hindu praying to Jesus?
Listen this is turning in to a merry go round and a frivolous set of inquiries, ofcourse u have a right to ur interpretation of my statement, dont mind that.
I was never on a film, but only on a trend. It’s a trend that is fearful as it is turning up films which are more and more clueless in scripting and accepting it as way of life. Anything unsual regarding faith of a character should be explained.
That’s all, u are reading to much between the lines, just a normal innocent film reading and trending assumes political anecdotes for u.
Read it as a whole, in its true spirit and object.
I rest it there… as i said one religion or another doesnt matter to me, that’s an individual’s choice, but choice has to look plausible, and reasonable, without that promotion appears void.
the point made by you about the movie is echoed in Rangan’s views. he says
” It is perhaps a testament to Yash Chopra that he shepherds us past this material without making it look entirely ludicrous. Jab Tak Hai Jaan is a sturdy instruction manual on how to handle melodrama in the classiest possible fashion. None of Chopra’s earlier romances show this hushed restraint, this refusal to punch up the proceedings with thunder and lightning – the film could be unfolding in a cathedra”
Good Point by Rangan – And the end is hugely unsatisfying, a cheat. It does not warrant the sufferings that came before, as it seems to hinge on a simple change of heart. After investing three-plus hours in a love story, we’re left with an abject anticlimax.
Satyam-in the interest of ‘space’ u may delete the above
That’s what happens when u type half-awake and from your phone–the ‘copy paste repetition’
Satyam-u may delete the above one
Not anything special but important to counter the excessive negativity here on JTHJ —
JTHJ-vol1-symbolic & literal demise of era(s)
Not many /any films of recent times maybe associated with the end of an era literally and figuratively
Here we have
The last film by yash chopra
If his confident insistence of this being his last film wasn’t enough, fate had it that he actually died to ensure that
Although the other dominant collaborator had figuratively died as the ‘king’ in ra-one, here this alter-ego-ish definitive screen profile aka raj/Rahul died by the end of the first half (as mentioned
by me earlier!)
And just before the movie marches towards its first weekend, hear that gal Thackeray dies( also closing theatres in Bombay as an effect)
JTHJ prologue
Does a film of this ‘calibre’(or lack of it) deserve a ‘commentary’ as such-no !! But given the significance of these changing patterns and trends ESP wth the stature of those involved-maybe yes.
Setting
Overseas multiplex -house full -no surprise !
Family crowd with liberal sprinkling of giggling girls
I just asked the ticket gal out of curiousity–will ‘son of sardar’ be ever released here–she looked surprised and asked back–’son of who?’-I left it there …
Issues/faults
Can’t add more to what many ‘auteurs’ have already said /will keep adding–but to be short–cliched, hackneyed, conveniently random storyline with multiple loopholes, not much connect to reality, so on
Relevance
How many of these issues are actually relevant to this genre and yash chopras world of films -one starts thinking –even then, the issues are too much to digest but they are not really that damning in the overall tone n concept n genre of this film
Battle of the halves-1st vs 2nd
The Lacklustre first half set me thinking & even trying to stay engaged at places though it had its moments…
But it’s more towards the equally flawed second half, then one sensed what yash chopra wanted to day here-what the hell brought him out of retirement for a final hurray ..
Maybe it was too little, too late-but one can’t deny that there were trailers galore both from yash and srk of what they are/were !
Performances of the lead team were the highlight that saved this film from further decline
And saved means it will take this film to successful status at box office (@ the least)
SRK
was literally sleepwalking on autopilot mode in the first half
He looked a shadow of his raj/Rahul persona and seemed to be attempting a tribute /parody of his successful turns for a stage show or some such congratulatory exercise
Never before has srk looked so tired, spent and struggling to keep pace with the surroundings. In ishq Shava, his valiant efforts prevented a disgrace & he was reasonable but the difference showed.
SRK in the second half–seemed to somehow conjure that last bit of srk-ism to strike back-& literally save this film and his per fiancé from the pits–so remarkable was this recovery that even I can’t totally disagree with bachchan that this was the best srk since swades.
Unlike bachchan though, I found multiple issues with srk even in the second half, but in the overall context will give them a miss.
Katrina : when even katrina hating girls tell u that katrina looked gorgeous here, one needs no further endorsement.
Her main achievement here was-
She understood the ‘ethos’ of a yashraj heroine-sober, graceful, alluring yet dignified and stuck to it –ie she didn’t try to hit the ball out of the park and making a mockery of herself ..
Also –she didn’t try to ‘compete’ with the other two performers with superior acting skills and so looked less awkward
Anushka –her role was much ‘bigger’ & significant than I thought
Had all the punch lines, crowd pleasing elements and she delivered them with panache & confidence
One does get irritated by anushkas ‘hey souldier: I won’t stop loving /stalking you’ routine after a while but she more than makes up with
‘I don’t wanna a buddy hug–I demand a full blown lip kiss’ & after getting one on the forehead –complaining–’was that a kiss?’
Interactions
Srk-anushka scenes in the second half (only few in total) were truly powerhouse with both talents firing in cylinders
Eg the hangin from the bridge, ‘pre separation’ etc
Srk obviously excelled in the grunge bearded look , half tear in eye about to drop look with the quiver in the voice
Nobody does it better mr khan -even now!!
Katrinas interactions with anushka were natural and she wasn’t trying too much –including in the delectable scene where she closes the door onto the anushka outside (b4 apparently making out with a memory loss patient!!)
Rahmans songs- sounded better in the movie
The title song about to be picturised in Switzerland was played in the end over a yash chopra montage -people waited till the end to watch it fully though ..(mostly except us)
The issue of lack of ‘realism’ & ‘practicality’
One finds many an average educated person coming out with multiple bullet points of the glorious loop holes /believability issues
Those people actually need to be taken to a corner and asked in no uncertain terms-what did U come in expecting in a yash chopra movie? We’re u imbeciles or are u unaware of Bollywood traditions/ ‘history’–as some of my co-viewers were (which is why they could be pardoned but not those other hypersmart characters!)
Spiritual /philosophical tinge
The movie does meander ultimately into an ‘abstract’ spiritual/Philosophical take on a Bollywood romance
Which was noteworthy and creditable
Alas this premise was diluted for many, by cliched treatment, convenient alternate memory loss (& recovery) & so on
But will the majority see beyond those superficial errors -partly imo
The malaise of the ‘distractable’ audience
Who doesn’t believe in context. They insist in reason in a yash chopra film but don’t in a ‘different edgy’ TDKR (talash remains to be seen closer home soon!)
So the terms of comparison and assessment change as per the film/subject in question
Don’t we assess a children’s film as a children’s film and a porn film as that ? So why can they ignore those in a Bol bachchan or a rowdy rathore etc but not here
As for Hollywood -wont even go there since fr some even criticising them on even ground seems blasphemous .
We alre also taking abut an audience who notice just the red bikini in deepikas performance in cocktail, who just see the ‘regressiveness’ of Diana pantys character and so on and miss the whole boat of the ‘romance’ in the central premise
Though I now agree with Amy’s point and surprise over a mini skirted katrina being so ‘wide-eyed/unaware’ of the big bad world outside in London
Though that tunnel part wasn’t bad and ishq Shava was filmed well–been to similar ones so its not ‘unbelievable’
So here j have the criticisms of bomb disposal practicality, rich-poor believability and so on..
The problem is that they are barking up the wrong tree and in the
wrong film /genre-due to a combination of bias, ignorance, inexperience and plain lack of integrity while assessing films as per their stated/intended genre
Story good
SRK Very good.
Katrina ho hum
Anushka Screechy sister of Karishma
Music. dull
Direction haphazard
Villain Ajay Devgn
Who saved the film? Jesus or SRK?
Etc. Etc.
JTHJ-vol2- the ‘abstract pact with God!’
Each of the three lead characters seem to have a certain ‘pact with god!!’
Righty or wrongly —
Initiated by katrina who seems to believe in a ‘give & take’ deal with god (Jesus for technical terms here!)
But some would now go into a tangent arguing why not a pact in a temple and why the heck in a church!
Those have been referred to anya for treatment of their distractable ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity syndome) of going off into tangents Oblivious of the main theme ..
Unlike in most such films–
The ‘villain’ isn’t a character or baddie or even a circumstance
It is an attitude, a thought process, a superstition sort of stuff
This juxtaposes into further such ‘pacts’ each by srk and anushka as well (of Stalking poor srk lol)
This relatively abstract theme premise makes me wonder about the ‘distractable ADHD crowd’–they obviously will be on a wrong lyre by the time the point is made–this may reflect in the overall box office but it is credible that somebody had the guts to try this in a mainstream film–though the multiple monster cliches/errors/ issues do dilute all this ‘purity’ somewhat …
The fact that even stalwarts like Utkal uncle missed it hook-line-sinker isn’t a good sign for the ‘normal audience’ who will be left
Ogling/complaining about anushkas bikini in Kashmir act or katrinas multiple kisses or SRKs ‘good Samaritan bomb disposal DIY’ jobs in London
In other words–it’s a case of missing the whole point yourselves and then blaming the other person for relative trivialities 😉
lesser mortals cannot begin to understand the depth and complexity of material as multilayered as cocktail and jthj. mango people are not as evolved and clued in to life as you; and that’s a cross you have to bear.
just a tip. if you are arguing in the same breath that this ‘consciously constructed project’ is not an underperformer at 125 or so that it’s probably going to make, it makes it very hard to take you seriously at all (not that many on this blog will make that mistake anyway)
Thanx anya for that compliment and for that tip ha
The cost of jthj is lower than such films and overseas returns disprortionately higher than the domestic reported figures here.
S while 100 crores won’t be a flop, it will need atleast 125 to be somewhat respectable
And in my books–less than 150 will be a relative underperformer–u r right!
But hey–unlike some other custodians of their idols -that’s none of my concern–since the moolah wasn’t coming into my pocket anyways …
It’s a bit strange how a similar black n white stand is difficult for some here !
Ps: ROFL sanjana at your short take —
“Story good
SRK Very good.
Katrina ho hum
Anushka Screechy sister of Karishma
Music. dull
Direction haphazard
Villain Ajay Devgn”
Amy won’t be happy being compared to screecho karisma 🙂
It’s bad luck for both films that with Thackeray’s death the Bombay box office will be hit in a big way. It will be worse for JTHJ of course because SOS’s strength areas are really in the North. The larger problem for both films is that in 2 weeks there’s another major release. Even otherwise these days once you lose out on the gross in the initial period it’s very hard to make it up later.
Satyam: apart from Bandra, Dadar, Parel, I think most other parts of Bombay are pretty normal (based on what I’m seeing on TV and what people I know are saying). I don’t think the mall-based multiplexes are going to be affected beyond a few shows this Saturday or Sunday.
@qalander bhai, nope this says things are diff, it quotes on PVR, which has couple of mall based multiplexes.
With emotions running high following Shiv Sena supremo Bal Thackeray’s death, cinema house owners in the city have decided to keep the theatres closed tonight and tomorrow for security reasons.
Film screenings in city theatres were cancelled today as soon as the news of Sena chief’s demise spread.
“For the time being, we have cancelled all the shows in Mumbai. We will decide about running the shows tomorrow after assessing the situation, an official of PVR cinemas said.
Manoj Desai, owner of Gaiety, Galaxy and Maratha Mandir said, “Yes, we have cancelled all the shows from 6 pm today till tomorrow, as we fear that anything might happen tomorrow. We don’t want to cause any trouble. From Monday, we might run it normally.”
Girish Wankhede, deputy GM-Corporate Communications and Public Relations of Cinemax said, “The moment we heard the news, we cancelled all the shows for today and tomorrow across Maharashtra. We have around 56 screens in the state. We have given refund of the tickets.”
Ashish Saxena, Chief Operating Officer- Big Cinema “For today we have suspended all the shows and also advance bookings. We will decide upon tomorrow depending upon the inputs provided by the local police.”
Just wait till tomorrow. People from all parts of Maharashtra are coming and the police advisory is out not to use western express highway and asking people not to step out of homes unless there is an emergency.
These 2 movies will loose some crores and it reiterates that there will always be uncertainty in life and business. But other parts of India will not be affected i any way and the show will go on.
In terms of the media/public reacxtion, beyond all the shameful encomiums to Thackeray, testifying to the continuing degradation of Indian political discourse, what we also see is the triumph of cliche (and hence the death of thought): the same language, with perhaps occasional adjective changes, is used to describe anybody and everybody, be it Ambedkar or Thackeray, almost as if the convention of marking someone’s death has overtaken the reality of the kind of life lived (I would have thought no-one needed reminding of the sort of public life Thackeray lived: I could begin any number of ways — with his calls to strip Muslims of voting rights, his admiration of Hitler, his calls for Kashmiri women to be raped, his incitement of pogroms, his important contribution in “devolving” Bombay from India’s premier city into a more cramped, provincial city — but I wouldn’t know where to end). I am reminded of sports commentary, where a number of commentators will say things like “beautiful stroke” for a slog sweep, a classic cover drive, or a lofted inside-out shot — they are most interested in the fact that the shot has yielded four runs, and seem to lack the vocabulary or imagination for a response that doesn’t consist of recycling words they have heard other commentators use.
I’m also of the opinion that a very popular movie in the theatre is never much affected at any time, and people flock back to see it in no time. However, if the movie is decent, but not unmissable, it is more vulnerable to external factors.
I think a weekend lost is a heavy loss for popular or unpopular films. This could get carried to some extent on Monday when people are cautious about venturing out.
I read somewhere Pune is also closing its cinemas this weekend.
Of course all this loss is nothing to the loss suffered by wage earners and those trying to earn a living from their daily efforts. Feel sad for them.
Agree Oldgold -the first weekend lost can be significant –shoul be factored in (though not used as an excuse like some do here)
Oldgold –u are from pune originally and sanjana from bombay–why don’t u two meet up 😉
Ps: hope things are quiet n safe in bombay–interestingly havent seen any RIP to Thackeray
Ok he was a human being @ the end of the day –everyone has controversies
RIP Bal Thackeray
(know even this can be politically incorrect here but to heck with political correctness -never cared for it)
You want a man to ‘Rest in Peace’ after he turned lives of multitudes of people into horrifying nighmares with no peace at all? All I can say is;
-if there is life after death – RIP (reflect in peace)
-if there is reincarnatrion – be reborn as a muslim (in India) 😉
JTHJ vol3- addendum
Audience reaction–
Very positive it seemed
A European srk fan girl loved it but that’s not valid!
Another Indian hyper rational girl who loves raping Bollywood films–shockingly declared that she loved the ‘secret pact angle’
To add to the shock(!) she gave 9.5 out of ten for JTHJ (she considers beneath her dignity to rate most Bollywood films)
Inanities–
” if I kiss you, will u slap me?”
Now this is the level this film stooped to!
And after doing the ‘job’, srk triumphantly declares that he hasn’t been slapped!
If there enough in the rest of the film to ‘salvage’ this foolishness-probably yes..
SRK Photo-ops
The one on his return to London with the hat n stubble was ace I thought
Also portions wth anushka in the second half were vintage srk
Anushka and the kiss
Now I know how correct Amy’s casting was and why she is so angry with this film
C’mon Amy-u got a great role and u nailed it !!
JTHJ–the unfilmed title song–
Dedicated to the entire spoof team —
anya, amy, Oldgold, sanjana, satyam (producer)
for tolerating my awkwardness , obscenities and above all–
Cooperating and being ‘proactive’ in all those difficult scenes and intimate ones as well –and thanx for sanjana for all those retakes in the name of ‘perfection’
Enjoy the unfilmed song which will be played in the closing credos
To heck with box office
We have more than got our money’s back and the gals have got more than their pound of… ( ok let’s stop there ) 🙂
Congrats
And yet it’s not her film. Or even Yash Chopra’s, really. Jab Tak Hai Jaan is all Shah Rukh, all the time. His character seems larger than the film, and Khan himself is in fine form even when the script deserves far less. There are times he seems out of place, certainly, but these are made up for by times where he grounds the narrative with one glare, with one scowl, with one kiss. The dude abides.
B rangans review on JTHJ
just read bits-it’s better than some others he has written recentl on Bollywood films..
In terms of wit, creative writing, smart alecky deconstructions- he is obviously v v good as expected
And he will be obvious ‘fantastic read’ for most
But somethings beginning to grate about rangan —
The same old rapping of mainstream Bollywood films in the name of a ‘review’
C’mon is there ANY film he really liked in the last year or so?
Barring a few don’t remember any!
Yes remember the revolutionary auteristic experiment called Delhi belly wherein rangan lay prostate to anything n everything there (including a mention flog blowjob-he saw a grand auteuristism there!)
But here he atleast shows some rare positivity
I myself have numerous issues wit this film
But the ‘tone’ of criticism should be different!
old habits did hard–before we know rangan slides in this–
“How can such a heavy role be entrusted to someone so lifeless in front of the camera”
So rangan feels that all the folks who like watching is on screen who are more than the combined population of the place he probably comes from –are all fools/imbeciles
Agree that Kats acting ability is nothing much to write home about but this seems a pattern–
Every new release–
Show off your writing skills; rip apart a film makers efforts, pat yourselves on the back and get an auto-certificate of intellectual masturbatory self congratulation
My basic questions to rangan–
A) if he finds Bollywood or other mainstream Indian films so bad (>99% films) why the hell is he in this job??
B) more than those films or those makers–one feels sorry for the sorry existence of folks like rangan who have to bear crap downright night n day —
Why doesn’t he stop reviewing such films?
C) it’s obvious that he doesn’t get this brand of cinema
The Hollywood ones he won’t dare to rip apart like this of similar genres
But why is he unleashing himself onto stuff he doesn’t like to enjoy or understand ?
D) this is NOT about JTHJ but a pattern one sees after each n every Bollywood release !
If he needs creative writing subjects -he can get others
E) folks like him still haven’t understood that he has to give a review for other folks -not in such a sorry state & desperate state of affairs as him and not having to do something he hates 99percent of the time
F) so rangan get a life
And don’t u talk of Katrina kaif or deepika or Diana or the ill
Go back to mrs rangan waiting at home like a good boy
Eat her sambar dosa and put your kids to bed!
And spare us your interpretations of stuff uve no idea or interest in !
If someone knows his blog-plz post this there in my behalf
Thanks 😉
Ha-Also have my iPad now (always with me!)–depends on where I am on the move & wifi availability
Ps: may /may now have my clothes on me-but iPhone/iPad always
What say Ann
Letter to rangan Contd–
This is not a out jthj but a pattern for ages
my suggestion to u–
Go to a nearby church (oops temple) since u had major issues with this point!)
If the dumbo( u )lived outside india –u may not find a temple nearby but anyhow–
Run/beg -find a temple
Confess to your misery of having to review film after film -that u hate!
And for gods sake–quit the job–
Go review something on the indie film movement or start doing the auteur gran rounds and show off your superior skills/tastes there
Why are u spoiling your superior intellect on something u are too good for ?!
And finally, when u r in the temple /church–
Make a pact with god–
That the next time u pour bile/contempt over a bollywood film that u didn’t like-u will abstain from all ‘interaction’ with your nice point wife/Partner (of u have one–ie practice abstinence
U may find that the ‘lifeless Katrina’ any not appear that lifeless to u anymore
Finally go get a life -u superior intellect ! 🙂
This ‘outburst’ is due to a longstanding pattern wherein Rangan and many of his ilk try to act as these ‘heavenly creatures’ looking down upon ‘lowly forms of entertainment’ from time to time!
We all have bad aspects of out of our jobs-but imagine someone having to indulge in junk > 99% time
Either that stuff is actually not ‘junk’ for him or he deserves a life!
Rangan: And when u are in the ‘church’–
Do also ‘pledge’ to review only indie films/ auteruiristic films-
Start with bella tarr…enrol onto auteur Indie grand rounds
& don’t u get seen in this ‘lowly’ company of Bollywood films!!
Ps: from ‘church’ reminds me —
Do say hello to anya –who has been spending her whole day/nite there for some sort of a ‘pact’ 🙂
The difference between Rangan & Satyam
I have spoken earlier as to why Rangan has started to ‘grate’
Satyam on the other hand sounds a more ‘wholesome’ package
Yeah- we all have our pet hates -for eg nothin can make me love housefull, golmaal, SOS -haven’t seen any of them
But there are SOME one likes
Same with Satyam ( I think)
Currently after ETT200& barfi100, Satyam has become a tut cautious of his predictions but still…
There isn’t this blanket contemptuous ‘looking down’ upon lowly forms of entertainment
With Rangan —
It’s as If someone claims to have done harwards business school and then settles down to help out his family betelnut (think the word is Gutka) local shop!
Who the bl..dy heck is forcing u to watch these lowly films
Think the next time u find Katrina lifeless –u will be forced abstinence with mrs Rangan !
If still u don’t improve — a ‘deprived’ Kareena will be unleashed onto Rangan !! Haha
excellent point. he is paid to watch movies and write what he felt about them. it’s his job. if people think he is an ignorant idiot who is just not indian enough to appreciate lame shit released every week in name of entertaining commercial indian cinema, why bother to read?
@ sheetal-ok dear have read it now lol
@ anya-“he is paid to watch movies and write what he felt about them. it’s his job”
We know that and there’s nothing ‘criminal’ about what he’s doing
But it does seem sorry and miserable for him and ultimately for the reader.
Ok, if he likes/enjoys even 20-30% of the ‘crap films’ he reviews it is fine
But he sounds like suffering with 99%films he watches–what a pathetic existence
Imagine having to go to work /ward rounds and hating 99.9% of the job!
Also rangan seems over qualified for these films–whats stopping him to do something commensurate with his apparent skills.
After graduating from ‘Harvard’ all a guy does is crib about the workings of some street side two bit chip shops -he’s not doing himself or their shops a favour!
Plus in a lighter jest– folks like rangans should go back obediently to his wife/ partner(if he has one), dutifully eat her sambar dosa, put his kids to sleep— deviant ‘complex romances’ don’t seem to come naturally to him
As for not reading him–
It’s rangan who is the ‘professional national award winnig reviewer’ –it’s he who shoul be able to stand the test and bear criticism –not the reader! It’s not the ‘fantastic read’ comment Only that he will/should receive.
I didn’t care to say all this about folks like raja sen since the are clearly beyond repair. Liked rangans writings and knowing that he was an ex-IIT-alumni have some respect for him.
So this was just a ‘friendly suggestion’ for a well wished –if he left his career to review films that he hates nearly 100% of te time –not worth it –he does try to compensate by creative writing, visual allegories etc but thats just not ‘reviewing the film’ for the prospective average viewer but treating his own ‘anxiety’ of being an overqualified reviewer struggling to keep up with the subpar material he has to go through. Or else -why not meet his match–go for truly auteuristic stuff…
And folks –we should get over this ‘too good to be criticised dictum’–nobody is that good to get that ‘immuniity’ ESP on anonymous blogs
As for finding Katrina ‘lifeless’–I did suggest that abstinence from his partner (mr/mrs rangan) should ‘cure’ this 🙂
so you love every aspect of your job? must be nice. if you loved crunching numbers but had to deal with shitty companies whose books are not up to date and you had to deal with headache of going thru all mistakes for audit and it was painful, you’ll just quit your job? even though you do enjoy the numbers part? by this reasoning, everybody on the planet should quit their job. lot of people like their work but not all aspects of it. i am sure jthj was not the only film he has watched over the recent time, i am sure he is free to watch and enjoy any other films that he would like to . and it doesn’t sound like he found the process painful. he found sitting through parts of it painful but seems to enjoy dissecting and analyzing the film nonetheless. the point is people don’t have to agree with him all the time, hell, i actually think he is way too nice to most of these shitty films (including this one). he hardly ever dismisses them, instead trying to understand why some of these film-makers let the opportunities they have go (the actual explanation is simple, they are mediocre talents and with accepting public like you, they don’t have to be anything more than mediocre). it’s his opinion, you don’t have to agree with it but you don’t have the right to suggest he should stop having it.
there has been a lot of films this past year he has written good things about. you are just upset these are not the almost 200 cr grossers that you have spent this whole year defending.
on a different note, as some here have pointed out, the posturing is getting a little too much. everybody who did not enjoy this or ett has ‘arty pretensions’, they should not go watch movies or write about them here. you are not really anybody’s fan including srk and katrina, you don’t really like these sort of movies. but you take your european friends to watch crap like soty, jthj because you are ‘forced’ to. then you have to come back and defend these films because people are being too harsh. you should cop to the fact that watch all this crap because you like it, just like 85% of paying public, you don’t give a shit about cinema or its quality and are just there to munch popcorn in the dark and pass 2 hours. or just admit that your walls are covered by katrina posters that you feel too embarrassed to talk about.
oldgold has a transparent agenda, she is a fan and likes this genre so her willful misunderstanding of things has obvious reasons. pointing out to her that both commercial masala films as well as ‘arty’ films can be excellent or crappy is useless, she has no interest in actually understanding or acknowledging that fact and is baffled by why we just don’t discuss one kind of cinema here. tony above had a balanced take on it. saurabh had no problem saying he is a big ajay and dutt fan but hated sos, that’s both honest and endearing. but your assertion that our not counting overseas numbers is the biggest problem with jthj is just plain hubris. your take seems to be – this movie was expensive, has big stars, is tolerable in most parts and making money in overseas. why would you mean people criticize it? did you hit your head or something?
sorry about the long comment satyam, feel free to delete it if you want. some people’s lack of simple point a to point b logic drives me crazy. just venting.
Oh maan–the most ‘difficult’ ones come from ‘crew member insiders’ like anya –anyhow she has ‘immunity’ and she can ‘abuse’ it 🙂
But a few points–
A) I’m not defending JTHJs less than excellent domestic figures by the excellent overseas figures–just saying both should be mentioned atleast occasionally unlike this blanket embargo
B) I have no problems with rangans JTHJ review where he is right on most points including on srk
It’s just an ongoing trend that happens every week wherein Rangan vents out his frustration and he doesn’t seem to be enjoying it
C) we all have parts of our jobs that we don’t like
But if that part happens to be 99.9%, yeah Rangan should quit it!
Or he should come clean and admit that his “walls are actually covered with katrina posters” and he is just doing lip service to prove his ‘intellect’ here
U can’t have it both ways Rangan
D) not many know that Rangan had a very promising career after IIT (I’m told!) –but he chose to ‘follow his dreams’ –is this how he is following his dreams by having to watch stuff he apparently hates nite n day
Obviously im not his hubby etc, but one just wonders seeing this even week
E) what if u graduate and specialise in neurosurgery ( just as an example !) and then someone asks u to sit in a village dispensary handing out cough syrups to village folks ?
Rangan seems to say in every post –” hey look at me–I’m the Harvard guy” but hey I wanna sit and crib about the corner shops selling milk n condoms
F) finally, anya I saw u going to a church in the morning
Uve come back in this ‘violent form’– what’s the ‘pact with god’-eh 😉
and here we go again. none of what you said goes to the points i addressed, you again ignore what i said about your deliberate misunderstanding of things and go on to make ridiculous comparisons to rangan’s job. which is not what my comment was really about. but it figures. you are fast becoming one of those people one cannot engage in any real conversation or debate or even discussion here. because most of the time, you seem to be talking to yourself. but since you comment here a lot, mostly repeating yourself over and over, it takes up a lot of space and is hard to ignore. but i guess i’ll just have to ignore it from now on.
Baradwaj Rangan actually writes any number of positive film reviews, so I have no idea where this statistic that he despises 99% of the films he reviews has been conjured up from. And as you rightly note, he’s never dismissive or superior in his tone (in the way that Alex claims that he is), instead taking time to understand what the filmmaker’s intent was, and find some positives in every film.
As for Alex- he’s at the theatres to watch every single big Hindi film from Teri Meri Kahaani to Ek Tha Tiger to Rowdy Rathore and he writes so many rambling posts on SS about his disturbing ‘spoofs’, arguing about the box office of every mainstream Hindi release, rigorously defending any Hindi rom-com that involves a man and two hot women etc, yet he indulges in these transparent pretenses of being very picky about the Hindi cinema that he views, of being aloof from Bollywood, of being above Hindi film fandom and of moving within a social circle of European Auteurs.
@ anya –yeah I’ve been ‘pinned’ or ‘owned’ by you !
Infact I’m sort of enjoying it somewhat 😉
Yeah I can’t think of any ‘explanations’ or ‘responses’ right now ..
Except—
“if I kiss u, will I get slapped?”
Wait anya –that’s not a proposition!
This is an example of the gutter level discourse this film JTHJ stooped to –and I HAVE mentioned it and criticised it already –if u actually READ it
But yeah –I’m too distracted to think of any valid answers to u 😉
“you are fast becoming one of those people one cannot engage in any real conversation or debate or even discussion here. because most of the time, you seem to be talking to yourself.”
Agree! Not every conversation needs to be serious, but when every second comment on any thread is piece of absolutely bizzare rambling courtesy Alex (complete with multiple references to his ‘spoofs’), it becomes a bit much.
My ‘criticism’ for Rangan is more at a ‘personal’ level that takes into account his excellent ability –note I don’t bother with other even more obnoxious ones like raja sen
He seems a guy who is “following his dreams” –to become a movie critic-so why not review /watch something u like at least partly like…
@ Amy–
For years –I’ve lived in areas where there have been not even pirated CDs, no Indian tv, forget Bollywood mainstream releases on the cinema
Only n the past year of more, I’ve moved onto somewhere where these are available –so it’s like a ‘exotic delicacy’
Ask someone like Oldgold who has to catch a flight from swtizerland to catch a film on the big screen
So it’s not that I’m actively wanting to see these films on the big screen–only these ones get exhibited on multiplexes –for eg the likes of GOW, PST, even SOS don’t get shown–
So I’m trying to watch as many Bollywood on the big screen while I can (b4 I have to move or something to a Bollywood inaccessible place)
Ps: as for European auteurs –yeah –I have colleagues/friends –but my involvement is only marginal /amateur since one has ones own work to do –u may /may not believe/agree though lol
“ROFL! Which part of England is this, exactly? ” hahah
Amy –now u have come to the main point
C’mon Amy / anushka –I don’t mind u stalking me actually
Btw have u stopped ‘sulking’ about your role in JTHJ
I sincerely believe u did a brilliant job Amy –keep it up
Btw Calm down Amy & anya –can I do something for u 🙂
This reminds me of a song I like
It takes real guts to admit that on a ‘judgmental’ blog like this
But here u are –like the rhythm, the vocals and the guys–
Love akshay and John here –foot tapping stuff
Sent from my iPad
Ps: the other comedy here is– the ‘heroine’ here deepika is obviously not at all worried about catching akshay doing this bizarre stuff but dumps him asap after his losing his corporate drone job haha enjoy
You can subscribe to any number of Indian TV channels in any part of the UK (including ones that show Hindi movies)- and since your previous posts indicate that you live/ lived in London- there are a million different places in the city where you can find Hindi DVDs, both pirated and orginial.
Also you might have heard of a modern amenity called online shopping- you can obtain DVDs of films like GOW, PST etc quite easily online. Why not just admit that you perfer watching mainstream Hindi releases to the more offbeat ones? And that you like films like Cocktail and JTHJ because they feed your fantasy (as your many ‘spoofs’ so clearly evidence). There is no shame in this.
It’s extremely annoying when you keep pretending to be some sort of an auteur-in-the-making who only watches mainstream Hindi cinema out of some sort of ‘compulsion’ or lack of alternatives, when your every comment indicates so strongly to the contrary.
Also my comment on which part of England this was exactly, was only to indicate disbelief at the improbability of living in England, with it’s large South Asian immigrant population, and yet being so cut off from Indian cinema/ culture.
Who said I live(d) (only) in England lol
Just something of an update for the rest of the ‘onlookers’
As u know– I asked the following question–
“Will I get slapped if I kiss u ?” ( as in JTHJ)
To let u know –I was not ‘slapped’ ( by either anya or Amy or even Oldgold )
Hahaha 🙂
And thanx for all that info about where to find pirated CDs etc
Basically I find it difficult to sit out an entire movie on a good quality DVD unless on a flight or train
As for the bad quality pirated ones–it’s put of the question–can’t stand them
Btw Amy–
I seriously found anushkas role in JTHJ quite good
Infact at no point she was less than srk who was near his best
Also I think some of their scenes were quite well handled and perhaps one of the few good things in the movie
Not sure why u didn’t like anushka/ her role ….
I only mentioned pirated DVDs since you siad that you lived in an area where you could not find them- I myself prefer original DVDs and find them very easy to obtain in the UK. Nevertheless, the idea of an ‘amateur auteur’ who cannot even sit through a movie unless in a theatre or on a flight is very interesting (and some may say, absurd). 😉
Yeah Amy -u are right about that –my patience and attention span is getting lower !
Since my nature of work involves being online all the time, it’s easier to change a window, punch in a few comments than sitting on a film for 2-3 hours ! I usually go for mini viewings or a few scenes /songs
Don’t mind em on my big screen tv but on the laptop only on flights /train when theres no option–in the multiplex, one gets stuck &has to complete it..
Hopefully u don’t have to hear many other of my absurdities& so will stay sane lol
As for the ‘spoof’ hopefully there are no other films catching my fancy and so there should be a ‘break’ after JTHJ ha
I found JTHJ to be a very average movie. Although by no means anywhere near memorable, the first half atleast had me hooked, it’s the piss poor second half that does the movie in! These incoherent meandering pointless 90 minutes literally had me in tears out of boredom. Lots of people seem to be praising Anushka, but for me it’s a very tough choice to decide what I disliked more about the movie, the above mentioned second half or her. Damn the girl, atleast her character in the movie, is very annoying and irritating. Don’t even mention her od-ing on the word ‘Soldier’….I’m still wondering why was she even needed in the movie. To top it all- I hope it’s not a politically incorrect thing to say- though not exactly ugly, she’s the very definition of plain Jane.
Maybe because I’d adjusted my expectations going into the movie, I didn’t mind Katrina; was expecting to see a Barbie doll, saw one, no harm done as far as I am concerned! Coming to SRK, without a doubt he’s the best thing about the movie, restrained and effective.
Months ago there were rumors this movie has been inspired by The End of The Affair and I had wondered how effective its Indian onscreen adaptation would be, especially in the hands of someone like Yash Chopra. Punjab-fetishizing Yash Chopra and a story that is so much informed by and whose very essence is imbued in a catholic worldview and things like catholic guilt, sin and hell always seemed a very odd combination. And so it was. The glitzy wise-cracking world of the movie is so out of whack with the central conceit of the movie that it doesn’t work in any serious sense; for that a somber and somewhat austere world was needed. Even from the trailers it was almost safe to rule out anything approaching a memorable film if indeed it were based on it. The re-calibrated expectations plus my rare foray to the big screen meant the first half somewhat kept me interested and made me look forward to the second half……albeit choosing from a relatively small sample, I don’t remember being so bored as I was during the second half of JTHJ in my big screen movie viewing experience.
Wonderful summation Matrix, esp your point about Green’s story being imbued in the Christian idea of sin and hell, and the film needing a more sombre, austere tone. As I said before, there Katrina’s character is married and suffers from guilt. Having a lover weighs upon her conscience. No such thing in the film.
JTHJ has crossed 100cr mark in just five days worldwide.This is called true stardom..Despite competition from sos and death of Bala Sahib Thakrey(which has affected the film badly),JTHJ appears a winner at boxoffice.This is a lesson for those who say that overseas nos hardly matter.Just see what is going to happen to SOS now due to above reasons as getting hit tag looks almost impossible now because overseas performance of this film is very poor. http://www.boxofficecapsule.com/breaking-news.aspx?news_id=797
Thanx for that info king khan bcos overseas numbers are usually ‘blocked’ here somehow. Overseas is a significance market ESP for srk films
“JTHJ has crossed 100cr mark in just five days worldwide.This is called true stardom..Despite competition from sos and death of Bala Sahib Thakrey(which has affected the film badly),JTHJ appears a winner at boxoffice.This is a lesson for those who say that overseas nos hardly matter”
Good point IF True
So 100crores in Five days –hmm that sounds good
100 crores in 5 days is world wide collections and not in India…Although the source provided by King Khan here that is boxofficecapsule.com generally has daily collections which are more than BOI.. Personally i will not go with this site…
@ ALEX:
I truly appreciate the humor and light-headedness you bring to satyamshot. Believe me, I do. But your latest role of ‘Bollywood Ambassador’ is a little disconcerting for me. And going by the comments of others, I feel for them too. I just feel that you are taking on this role far too seriously. Just like Imtiaz Ali’s false and pretentious angst in ROCKSTAR.
Let me just expand by taking the example of your Ipad review of JTHJ. I have been observing that you have somehow taken on the mantle of supporting Bollywood mediocrity. Nothing can substantiate more than your take on JTHJ. Your review on Rangan’s review nailed the fact that you have taken on the role of ‘Bollywood Savior’ far too literally. Let me expand. I haven’t seen JTHJ. And I never will see it. I will watch it on torrent for free because I don’t want my dollars to be expended on MANNAT’s room renovation for SRK’s kids. Here is the deal. I am an old man of 35. When I was a teenager, I hated SRK with all my heart. I hated him because I was the ugly/average duckling – still am—and would see him walking away with girls on screen and the girls I was acquainted with loved that. So I wasn’t all that SRK was. So when I watched DDLJ in 1995 on the screen, I tried to find reasons to hate the film, and the best that I could come up with was that it was a derivative of HUM AAPKE HAIN KOUN. Because the Punjabi Kudi shit and all that stuff was already explored in HAHK via songs/situations. And actually, I am still convinced of that. The fact remains, that it was HAHK that brought to the fore the ‘enjoyable’ perks of being an extended joint family, what with all the kakas, kakis, taos, dogs, bitches, cats, kittens, all dancing as one never ending happy family. However, the fact remains that for its time, DDLJ was a great film and an enjoyable one with resonance related to the time. But still, today, I am willing to pass off my skepticism toward DDLJ as my hatred toward SRK and love toward Madhuri Dixit (yes, I was in love with her and could not tolerate anybody over-powering her in terms of talent and superstardom and talent, especially the irritating Juhi Chawla, who threatened to take her place what with SRK helmed successes like DARR and RAJU series).
Alex, what kind of worries me is that you are still carrying forward something that I left behind as a teenager (maybe you are still too young — so that’s fine I guess:( (this unflinching loyalty to something that any rational being can deduce as something being irrational/biased. For instance, you are finding that Ami/me/XYZ/Rangan – anyone who points to plotholes in JTJH as someone who is ‘above’ Bollywood and who view ‘Bollywood’ as condescending. In other words, people who endorse the mediocrity/mistakes of JTHJ are the true fans of Bollywood while those who find loop-holes, need to shift focus to Hollywood or France or whatever. What you are ignoring Alex, is the passage of time. Hell, the world, India especially with access to French/Hollywood and what have you of world cinema, is exposed to the best in the game. I mean, when the NYT review of JTHJ or anybody else compares SRK walking to disarm a bomb as coolly as THE HURT LOCKER’s protagonist, one should understand that we are no longer living in an era of silos but an all-pervasive atmosphere. You say BR or anybody else should NOT judge JTHJ based on the fact that SRK walks to diffuse some bomb as though he is walking to pee in Hyde Park. But what to do Alex? All the internet savvy middle-class folks of the world are exposed to THE HURT LOCKER. So when you give SRK a role of bomb-diffuser, one obviously expects some sort of authenticity when it comes to Yash Chopra deciding to make SRK a bomb-diffuser. What you say is, let SRK dance his way to bomb-diffusion, it doesn’t matter, this is Bollywood: dim-wittedness is quite legal here. But why should it be? We are living in a different, intern et-savvy, information-enriched atmosphere. Why do you want us to regress and enjoy shit? Let me be frank. Aditya Chopra is supposed to be young and I am assuming being so, he would be quite familiar with the pulse of Indian and NRI audiences – especially NRIS. Coz he made a fucking career out of them. So now for him to say, “ to hell with NRIs or RNIs (Resident Non-Indians) being exposed to world cinema”, is really a cop-out. With the kind of money and exposure that he has, let him increase his standards. Please do not ask us to lower our standards.
Nobody is picking faults with JTHJ or SRK because they have nothing better to do. It is just that people are so exposed to world cinema that it is difficult to comprehend as to how, still, people can still be idiotic with such a wealth of information available to them at their finger-tips. I loved SRK in KHKN, DIL SE, SWADES, CDI, and RNBDJ. And his roles in his romantic avatars where he gloats like a sheep irritate me, especially the YC ones. But that is my personal opinion and SRK, through his 20 years of Bollywood, has not been able to change my opinion. I am a person that is always open to change and experimentation but have found SRK to be of a limited acting talent. To me, he has performed well only when somebody like Ratnam or Gowarikar or Kundan Shah has pushed a bamboo up his posterior and forced him to change/perform. But that’s me and I fully respect KING KHAN or BHALO MANUSH who think he is the be all and end all. That’s their view and I fully support their right to own that view. SRK has never been able to convince me of his acting talent like Amitabh or Kamal Hassan or Irrfan have. But that’s my opinion. MOOLAH, BO, has never interested me and never will. SRK is THE BOLLYWOOD START that is the most famous monetary star across the seven seas? Greater than Amitabh Bachchan? Fine. Good luck and wishes to him. I am not interested in that. I am willing to sign on stamp paper that AB monetarily is inferior to SRK. Don’t care and doesn’t bother. What just interests me is the legacy, the talent. And everyone knows who is the winning horse when it comes to this..
You say,’didn’t BR know that he was reviewing a BOLLYWOOD film?’ Hell yes, he knows. But this is not the 1970s! Let me expand. Please compare JTHJ to Yash Chopra’s earlier movies sans SRK like KALA PATTHAR, DEEWAR, TRISHUL, SILSILA or any movies he directed prior to the ‘80s. In any of these movies, do you find any extreme level of stupidity as SRK walking into a post – 9/11 scenario where he is allowed by UK cops to diffuse a bomb without any need for checking his credentials!!! I mean, do you now see where our frustrations stem from?
Alex, I am as much a supporter of song-and-dance Bollywood as you are. But seriously, you cannot ask me or yourself to demote yourself back to 1970s’ when there was no Internet or RedBox or county libraries carrying world cinema DVDs.
This is my fifth scotch. Please forgive any grammatical or incomprehensible English sentences. I apologize. Alex, please forgive if this comes across as negative. I am just trying to have an inebriated discussion…..
I don’t know if you have it right.
Not to support mediocrity is one thing, but to want all the films to become ‘arty’/ auteuristic is another – with a sugar coating of – why can’t they make it like in the west?
Look how good ….. was!!! etc etc
I am not a fan of NRI stuff and prefer rooted films, and don’t like this trend. There are those who do. I just avoid these films.
I absolutely ABHOR violence and gore, so I avoid those and don’t even talk about it here.
I think AA makes sense that those interested in ‘not mediocre’ films should watch support and discuss only such films or – attempts at such films.
Then this place would be frequented by like minded people.
But the films whose trailers, images BO talk gets posted here are not those types, and then to judge it from the above mentioned POV, is unfair.
Good point Oldgold –that’s why u were cast in JTHJ spoof!
People do realise with time that my castings are actually robust and ‘scientifically done’
Ditto for anya , Amy 😉
Haha Satyam doesn’t argue much with me nowadays
Experience has taught him something lol
So much so that he refrains from putting up his customary box office predictions –he does them only after a few days of release usually
Amys ‘objections’ to JTHJ
As for Amy having objections to JTHJ — there are ‘deeper’ reasons there haha
Amy is currently ‘sulking’–her anushkas role wasn’t given the same deal —
We have been saying that anushkas role has been quite good and she has done v well.
But Amy is pointing out to the ‘lack of a proper kiss’
I mean, c’mon, why to make such a fuss about it, I thought
But Amy thinks it is like a ‘prestige issue’
Rather a ‘status symbol’ that her (anushkas) role missed out on!
Ok Amy : wil try to ‘correct’ it
Anyhow I will soon get enthused with another upcoming film and will create a spoof –will keep u in mind
Now stop ‘sulking’ Amy 🙂
@ Ann — thanx for the highly entertaining and heart felt post there.
I could sense each and every ‘pore’ in your body ‘believing’ in what u were typing and I get your points. 🙂
So let’s take these points one by one
There are some clarifications to make here —
A) I’m NOT a fan of SRK or yash chopra or aditya
Those who may have followed the blog here b4 have also found me over critical of srk & chopra films
Infact, I’m not a consistent ‘fan’ of anyone–it’s more as per the particular scenario sort of a deal
B) I have numerous issues with JTHJ myself
Plz Read this and the vol2, 3 below that
C) The ONLY reason I didn’t dwell on the negatives was that they have already been dealt with in detail and more here n elsewhere
Unlike others, I don’t intend my ‘reviews’ to be ‘separate threads’ or comprehensive professional type writeups on films
I try to ‘fill in gaps’ or ‘inconsistencies’ (as I see them)-& I don’t expect folks to necessarily agree to them (though with my persuasive skills, it sometimes becomes difficult for them maybe/ maybe not, I don’t know lol)
D) the key points here were–
The ‘relevance’ of these issues to this theme /premise
Do we care too much about certain ‘technical’ issues in a Hollywood romcom, the types Ben affleck used to indulge in, during the ‘bennifer’ phase when he was flitting between Jennifer garner, Lopez, Sandra bullock etc—nope
But when he has taken over this ‘Argo’ phase, the genre, the requirements and expectations change since into new setting, the ‘demands’ are different
E) plz read the bits about the ‘distractability’ of the bollywood audience –Satyam has gone on record that all he did in cocktail was to fast forward, see deepika in a red bikini, then rewind, watch it again, and that’s all he did!!
Also some other folks get entangled in ‘regressiveness’ etc whilst missing the whole boat of the central premise
F) plz read the segment “the abstract pact with God!” —
Now I personally don’t care a damn about such pacts, but I’m sure that none to those ripping apart this film, ever reached THAT —
This was supposed to be (one of ) the central point
We have an audience that demands ‘reason’ in a chopra film inspite of knowing the tradition and history of Bollywood
It’s like travelling in parts of Bombay metro with your wallet hanging out of your jeans pocket and then complaining, someone picked your pocket!!! Let’s not be so ‘gullible’ or ‘naive’
G) as for being ‘Bollywood custodian’– I have started watching Bollywood regularly only recently and this blog is one of the real maybe. Have being exposed to cinema of all types n genes including auteruiristic, European, French, Hungarian, even stuff like bella tarr (infact will be attending an auteur amateur workshop v soon)–have friends who delve in amateur indie European films and have been associated with them as well though in a marginal amateur capacity
But don’t think that gives me either the authority or immunity or this ‘higher /holier than thou’ quality to expect similar standards for viewers who don’t have that access/tastes
I) one should have the flexibility and manoeuvrability to place him/herself at the level of the material one is critiquing
Looking at it from an exalted/superior position, isn’t fair either to oneself or to the material itself
J) to summarise, intellectual isolation and ghettoisation is more dangerous than uncomplicated simple basal level bufffoonery
🙂
Addendum (reply to Ann)
K) The ‘superiority of genre’
So basically what many folks here and in general will want us to believe
A biopic is better than a drama is better than a comedy is better than a romcom
I don’t believe in that
There’s basically a good film and a bad film –period
Am engrossing film and one that doesn’t hold u –that’s it
L) ‘superiority of entertainment’
I will also demolish another snobbery being perpetuated
While I never watch/enjoy stuff like houseful, SOS, golmaal, I do NOT mock them
Bcos as the numbers show, there ARE folks who enjoy them.
Who am I or anyone else to decide that the ‘entertainment’ avenues and tastes of a poor guy sitting in a corner shop in Bihar is ‘inferior’ to that of someone sitting in Europe with access to not only watching but even working in amateur indie alternate European films!
M)Therein lies the difference
While one may put forward ones points/tastes, this attempt to ‘scorn’ or ‘put to ones place’ something in the name of ‘inferior taste’ is what I don’t like
If u read my objections to Rangan, it’s not about the material he writes ( of which I amw a fan of !)
But his predicament of leaving an IIT career to ‘follow his dream’ and then having to review subpar stuff that he apparently hates 99.9% of the time
Also objections can be found out withOUT this ‘”heavenly body surveying from the skies at lowly earth forms”‘ approach that folks like him adopt!!
Also for his finding katrina lifeless –read my suggestion to him about mrs Rangan ( or mr Rangan if he has a gay partner–u never know nowadays) 😉
Addendum II –reply to Ann
The box office — a peril or a responsibility
Ann- I have had some amateur experience of contributing some finances to small indie European films –only as a ‘hobby’ or amateur pursuits–don’t usually go into details
But since the topic demands it–
While it gives u more ‘power’ and ‘exposure’ when the scales ‘ budgets go up, there is also a responsibility
Not only to improve cinema and ‘take it to a new frontier’
But also to ensure that all who worked for /under u make money
NOT thinking about this latter objective, is also sheer dishonesty and selfishness
The first objective of ‘higher frontiers in cinema’ can still be met by smaller indie experimental films
But when one is in the big game wherein families can be destroyed by your ‘imaginative skills’ one needs to retreat and put a cap on your creative juices –this is not to condone ‘subpar’ stuff but to explain the ‘pressures’—also depends on the target audience
What u or may consider ‘subpar’ may infact be enjoyable to the guy in Bihar or UP or the girl sitting in her hostel room in Bombay or the one closeted with her pet dog in NYC
It’s this ‘confluence’ that’s more difficult to achieve than the socalled “indie- amateur in mainstream act ” 😉
Good point Oldgold –seems none of the SOS ‘supporters’ went to actually see it!!
The ones who ‘hated’ JTHJ like Amy and utkal uncle –saw JTHJ first day first show even before the spoof cast memebers saw it themselves
Amy has infact gone for a second viewing
Some like anya have been visiting a church since then 🙂
Anyhow–lemme stop this ‘leg pulling’ (briefly)
SOS is to be seen. Not to be discussed. Just like ETT, BG, BB etc.It is a critic’s nightmare and audience delight.
Only films like JTHJ, Talaash can be discussed and torn to pieces. Because these films have kept up promises and they deserve a deep analysis.
Even I dont like violence and also sleaze. I love Hrishikesh Mukherjee type of flicks. My favourite middleclass heroes are Amol Palekar and Farooq Sheik.
I wish that someone would discuss, or at least acknowledge, that SRK’s character in JTHJ is in the business of “defusing bombs”, and not “diffusing bombs.” 🙂
Jab Tak Hai Jaan And Son Of Sardaar Day Five Business
Sundday 18th November 2012 12.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan and Son Of Sardaar continued to well in most areas and Saturday saw growth from Friday at many places. The all India collections of the film look in the same range as Friday as many areas in Maharashtra area were shut in the evening due to the death of Balasaheb Thackerey.
If things were normal the films would have managed decent 10% plus growth on an all India basis but now collections look like coming in the same range or even lower depending on the affect in Maharashtra. Sunday will also be hit as Maharashtra will be shut all day. North India added a good 10% plus for both films on Saturday.
Maharashtra being shut aside both films are doing well and Saturday collections as per early estimates look 8.25 crore nett for Son Of Sardaar and 10.50 crore nett for Jab Tak Hai Jaan.
The approx five day totals are 65-66 crore nett for Jab Tak Hai Jaan and 50-51 crore nett for Son Of Sardaar.
The ‘discrimination against pounds/ dollars!”
Think king khan raises a good point here.
I feel that ‘domestic markets’ are obviously more important
And one can’t call a domestic flop a success due to good overseas collections
But should there be a ‘blanket curtain’ over the overseas returns ESP for–
A) big budget films
B) films with known good markets abroad like srk/ yrf films
C) the obvious difference in one ticket returns due to differential currency
D) the blog owner and mos others are typing aWay from overseas
E) Satyam comes up with daily updates of domestic bo figures
Isn’t there a point in coming up with overseas collections ?
Why this bias & hesitation : Satyam
Why not a worldwide figure with breakup
Do we have to wait for the next abhiskrek/kjo/yrf alliance (if we get one ) to get those
Wondering if amongs the other ‘reforms’ in box office here-I can push this one through as well Satyam 😉
To add–
We are not askin for figures from Switzerland or Afghanistan but USA, uk maybe Australia etc
And not daily but maybe once in a couple of days to get the ‘pattern’
Since it may become difficult for Satyam to manage..
After ETT200& barfi100: and the ” limitless extrapolations reforms –wanna take it easy on Satyam –anyhow just kIdding haha
For a start–Satyam
Can we have the cumulative figures from overseas us/uk compariSon of JTHJ/SOS–it neednt be as detailed and exhaustive as your domestic daily /hourly updates –but may be enough to give an idea 😉
Tomorrow Mumbai traders have called for a bandh as a mark of respect to BT. Tomorrow schools are closed ditto. Cabs and autos may follow suit. And cinemas?
One of the reasons why many people want to get out of India is the fear factor running deep whether it is UP, Chennai, Hyderabad, Mumbai, West Bengal, Assam, and infact every part of India.
There is no certainty in life.
You alight from an international flight or from a long distance train and there will be the uncertainty of not getting cabs or autos.
You maybe in dire need of medicines or food and there is always the possibility of some bandh, some strike etc.
The roads are pathetic. there are no more traffic rules and
Many still feel India was better off during British rule.
Considering how domestic political parties have failed Indians, many Indians are not fearing China or Pakistan any more.
Reasonable people mouths are being gagged. There are goons everywhere and they are prospering at the cost of law abiding citizens. The police harass the innocent citizens while the big shots get away easily.
Sitting at home. thankfully channels were working. Saw Bol Bachchan for the fourth time and enjoyed. Saw OMG on colors. and also watched the funeral of BT. Saw Bachchan sitting with Anil Ambani. BT was draped in Indian tricolor and was given a full state funeral. Yes, he died as an Indian. Congress was gracious enough inspite of receiving unending insults from BT while he was alive.
Saw Anand Mahendroo and other luminaries. Yes, Nana Patekar was there.
Sanjana–thanx for those updates
Was there any ‘violence’ after BT death?
I don’t know much but feel lots of these film starts actually have more ‘fear’ than ‘respect’ for BT– what do u feel
Btw since u are posted in Bombay- how often dya come across shooting (I meant film shooting!)
Mumbai is a city where commuting by any transport is difficult due to density of population and also transport of any kind. And film shootings mostly take place in studios or filmcity and mot of them go to phoren countries nowadays.
I feel most of the mumbai people really loved him.
Ya he opposed bangladeshis to crowd in Bombay/ India – toh ussko Hitler bana do..so bloody convinient !!!
Kashmir/ Pakistan has hundreds of them.. with NO followers !!!
Rocky: Thackeray himself expressed his admiration for Hitler. He also advocated stripping Muslims of voting rights in the 1980s. At one point he even said Kashmiri women should be raped to be taught a lesson. I don’t need to call him a Hitler for these things — he just needs to be called a Thackeray, which has become its own by-word for a number of violent, lumpen tendencies in our politics.
Agree thackrey did divisive politics but why single him out??? show me one modern politician who is so called secular in india? he is easy target for left liberal politics, same was done by NC and Mufti syed in J&K and they are secular, Sikhs were Killed by Rajiv Gandhi and Congres, bhagalpur riots, about 50 riots in gujarat by congress pre 2002 and they r so called Secular…
Every riot in India has been done by politicians.
Secularism is bogey and now obselete tune which left leaning so called seculars are harping on and on…
I am against any violence in any form but than let’s be fair.
India is not secular country in true sense and word secular was again amendment by Indira gandhi in basic tenets of our consitution.
By the standard, CPM and DMK are much more dangerous as they were anti national and CPM even supported china in 1962 Indo- china war and dmk wanted eelam…
Every party plays divisive politics, congress still plays it in NE but its not highlighted by so called secular media.
In that sense BT was transparent not hypocrite like rest of politicians (afriad of so called public image never said or may have said but never highlighted by media) who dit it.
recent example is of so called suave and harvard educated salman khurshid on kejriwal.Google it 🙂
OG, If u are really interested than you will find what most politicians say and do. You won’t say Quote.
Action speaks louder than words but somehow we get stuck in words as you are 🙂
I gave you facts of riots in India and you can count the deaths but still you want quote.. this is hilarious.
Its not quotes but who did what ??? RG is responsible for deaths of 5000 sikhs and they are still striving for justice when govt of the day did all to cover it up…
So if you are interested in dialogues than THANKS from me.
Rajiv Gandhi at that time was relatively young and he did not justify killing of sikhs but only said something insensitive. 5000 is an exaggerated number and the detractors of congress will go on increasing that number just like CAG’s mythical figures.
India is one country even now because of Congress and in the future also congress is the only hope whatever its detractors may say about corruption. Which party is not neck deep in corruption?
Rajiv Gandhi was not responsible for the massacre of sikhs. It is the congress goons headed by some local leaders who took advantage of Rajiv Gandhi’s naiveity and inexperience as a politician. It is the gandhis or Nehrus who laid down their lives for the country time and again.
No one is denying the wrong done then.
So BT should be let off because of that?
It’s BT who died recently, not RG.
I’m sure RG received a lot of flak when he died, and still receives (including his children).
You’ll have to think of a better reason to defend him.
Over his lifetime his ‘sunar’ hits have definitely surpassed the ‘lohar hits.
We are also talking of ideologies here.
RG’s wasn’t to kill or banish sikhs from Delhi/Punjab whatever. I think he let his emotions take over, at having his mother killed by one of them. Not like a good leader I would say.
He didn’t say things against them as BT did most of his life against muslims and non Maharashtrians.
I could go on in this comparison, but I hope you see what I’m saying – even though you’ll never agree.
Who says that ??? you have not read my 1st comment on this carefully 🙂
I said let’s be fair and see both sides of political spectrum.
@sanjana
3700 is official figure , stand corrected there 🙂
And its not detractors of congress, most of the problems in India is coz of congress from kashmir to TN. Indira gandhi destroyed every other insititution in India and this is also Fact.
If one is inexperienced then one should not hold PM’s post 🙂 this is no excuse. I repeat, Most of ills afflicting india is coz of congress.
That’s why Gnadhi wanted congress to disband after Independence
Bliss, every country has its own share of problems. Will you hold congress responsible for all those countries also?
A vast unorgnaised country like India will definitely have problems and all those problems cannot be pinned on congress. Kashmir problem is ethnic and TN problem is because of too many dravidian parties.
If you just bracket kashmir and TN in such simple manner than its better to go back to history books( pro and con). Kashmir problem is gift of Nehru, LTTE gift of Indira Gandhi, Destroying Democartic insititutions like Apex judiciary, beaurocracy and Emergency…. Who created Bhindrewala??? and against whom ???Its not other Country but My Country. and dont tell me in rejoinder congress is winning polls, not coz ppl favour it but just Political arthmetic and convenient colliations…
Hyderabad MIM Party MLA Akbaruddin Owaisi threatens of destroying India (there is a youtube video which I am not posting here), he abuses Lord Ram freely, and yes ofcourse media doesnt bother, but if someone does the reverse on Muslims, they r branded with all sorts of names and storm is created.
Few days back Mint journo PriyaRamani was abusing similarly (even much worse things) and had support from fellow journos. Do these ppl have similar guts to say anything against Muslim God??? Cant even dream of that!! Thats why ppl like Bal Thackeray will have fans and supporters. There is always an equal and opposite reaction.
Bliss- great set of points…. keep it up !!
OG- did you see a recent press conference of SRK? a journalist identified herself as Rekha Khan so SRK says main aapko Namastey karoon ya Salaam ? is that not communal..aur Rekha Khan’s respone- arrey Sharukh Bhai – Salaam boliye salaam, so SRK salaams her…..did not hear a single leftie or even Right wingie object to that… in my view it was totally unacceptable…..
last time I checked Namastey is INDIAN not Hindu ( Ram Ram sahab may be , but not Namsatey) ……
It’s a real shame that people don’t see the difference between what they are talking and what is being discussed, by taking the topic to a totally different topic called “evil of politics” “Party POlitics”
That’s NOT what is in discussion.
GOOD TRICK!!! When you don’t know what to say about a man identifying himself with Hitler.
First omrocky comes up with abusing secularism and calls it ‘sickularism’ – WHILE ENJOYING THE SAME and prospering, but doesn’t want the same for people in India – because they destroyed temples….. centuries ago!!!
Kashmir is not a creation of Nehru. It has a history and geography which has seeds of what is happening till today. No one knowingly creates a problem and Nehru would not have done it. China is still debating Mc Mahaon line and claiming Arunachal Pradesh.
As for LTTE, a genuine tamil problem became a bombshell in their heands because of Prabhakaran’s mindset.
And Bhindranwale. I am not sure about it and I will try to revisit history.
Emergency was necessitated by JP’s calling army and police to revolt.
Honestly, you need to revisit history again.
Go through interaction of nehru and patel on kashmir and read jagmohan’s book. LTTE was brain child of Indira G and RAW. This is FACT, admitted by GOI. same for Bhindrewale, Assam problem. destroying Institutions.. and Emergency in response to JP movement.. This is LOL statement.
” because they destroyed temples….. centuries ago!!!”
Not centuries ago but just a 2 decades back in Kashmir. 120 temples destroyed. just coz Kashmiri pandits dont form big community and Vote bank and they are hindu’s, its not big news. That’s Big tragedy and parties which did it are so called secular parties for most of us. Appeasment wont lead one anywhere.
Not sure what we mean by “most of the Mumbai people”: I am sure the South Indians, Muslims, North Indians and others who have felt the brunt of Sena attacks at different points over the last few decades, but who might have been born and raised in the city (in many cases communities pre-dating the arrival of many Maharashtrians in the city –certainly true for Mumbai’s Bohra, Khoja, Gujarati, and Parsi communities) might not have “really loved him.” Undoubtedly many Marathi-speaking Mumbaikars certainly did.
as for Hitler he clarified several times that he admired Hitler as an artist but hated his acts yes hated…but the lefties choose to ignore it….he had many faults but Hitler he was not……
“as for Hitler he clarified several times that he admired Hitler as an artist but hated his acts yes hated…but the lefties choose to ignore it”
As a leftie I would say that the “I admired Hitler’s art” bit is actually what makes sense to include in a criticism on Thackeray. If Pol Pot was a brilliant pianist I still wouldn’t expect anyone with a pulse (not least someone in a position of even slight power) to talk about how much they admired the ruthless dictator’s beautiful music. Unless of course they were trying to be a hugely irresponsible, cowardly, even monstrous provocateur. And that’s of course Thackeray’s legacy.
Re: “…as for Hitler he clarified several times that he admired Hitler as an artist…”
How can this be taken seriously? It is obviously an attempt to backtrack (especially where the international media was concerned, where admiration of Hitler goes down especially badly). To put it bluntly, one would be hard-pressed to find a serious person anywhere who admires Hitler “as an artist”; the man was a complete mediocrity as an artist, and the only people who admire his art are those who admire him anyway — otherwise there is no reason to admire his art given the many greater artists from the same period. I mean, Thackeray has the option of esteeming the paintings of Monet, Picasso, Schiele, ad infinitum, and the one he admires as a painter is…Hitler?! Give me a break.
PS: the very article you cite — a very favorable piece on him by Pritish Nandy — is telling. Not even Nandy can say anything good about Thackeray’s admiration for Hitler, and so he throws up his hands and says Thackeray’s “admiration for Hitler didn’t help.”
More broadly, and as I wrote in an early comment, I don’t need to paint Thackeray as the desi Hitler — he wasn’t Hitler. But he was Mumbai’s Bal Thackeray, and that’s bad enough.
what reaaly pisses me off that most muslims ( educated, Inland, foreign returned, foreig residing) except very few are so outraged by modi and Thackrey and RSS ..but say not a single word about pakistan, afghanistan, Saudi arabia, Godhra, Kashmir..Owaasi, Shahi imaam…….Dum nahee hai, ya bikta nahee hai????
P.S.- the reborn as a muslim and in Bihar was a tasteless, insensitive comment and had me started !!!!
>what reaaly pisses me off that most muslims ( educated, Inland, foreign returned, foreig residing) except very few are so outraged by modi and Thackrey and RSS ..but say not a single word about pakistan, afghanistan, Saudi arabia, Godhra, Kashmir..Owaasi, Shahi imaam……
I’m NOT a muslim.
I would criticize the situation IN INDIA.
Yes, the Shahi Imam is bad, and when he dies I’ll say the same, but to a lesser extent, because BT was worse.
Omrocky
You should be happy that the conservatives in US are not having their way to the extent that other religions ko aate daal ka bhaav pata nahin lagne de rahe because of ‘sick’ularism.
GF as a leftie -please write a book as to how the Muslims systematically destroyed several Hindu Temples, whereevr they are in majority there is trouble for minority, go and work for the upliftment of the Hindu minorities in Pakistan, go and ask an average Maahrahtriyan NOT the Twitter happy few how they feel about Thackerey ( although I don’t really care for him at all but will defend against the stupid reborn as mulimd comments ) then I shall know you have pulse….
OG- I am enjoying the freedom, and so are all the Muslims in India..( actually they have much more freedom than anywhere else in the world including the USA) ….
Will be offline for the next 1.5 hours as getting readu and driving to work……baaki baad mein…saala baat kartey hain !!!!
I don’t think anyone would deny Thackeray’s standing amongst the people who benefitted from his divisive irresponsibility. And I’m certainly not suggesting he’s alone in that kind of irresponsibility in the history of communal politics in India. These are obvious points and luckily even if I lack a pulse there’s still something of a brain rattling up there! I’m specifically addressing the “I admired Hitler’s art” comment which to me encapsulates Thackeray…a gross, shameful provocateur. The kind of comment that’s indefensible for anyone who’s at least attempting to be objective about this in my view.
You are confusing different issues – the past and the present.
You are living in a country which has totally decimated a way of life and culture of a people. What do you feel about it? If you feel that was wrong;
-are you doing anything about it in the BT way? It may bring it back you know – the way the destroyed temples have reappeared LOL
< I am enjoying the freedom, and so are all the Muslims in India..( actually they have much more freedom than anywhere else in the world including the USA) ….
Who's denying that?
BUT BT WANTED TO CHANGE THAT!!
That's why he's hateful.
The discussion has gone totally religion based ignoring the regional aspect of it.
WHO DOES THAT IN A COUNTRY??
People from other parts of India are suggested to be like foreigners in Bombay.
Anyway, I'm off to after another comment on the relevant topic of this post.
Re.-The discussion has gone totally religion based ignoring the regional aspect of it.
OldGold- egggjactly and you started it by posting the “reborn as a muslim” comment.. ..( as an afterthought you later added Bihari but your primary point was the first comment)…
OldCold- Re.-It may bring it back you know – the way the destroyed temples have reappeared LOL
Alas like all commies – destroyed temples is just a matter of LOL for you…sahee hai…..
My LOL was NOT for destroyed temples but because of the attitude of people.
WHat do you want to do about it??
Torture the muslims till eternity- who had NOTHING to do with it?
Carry on the strife endlessly while sitting peacefully in another land???
mujhe shaant karne ke baad aap khud hi shaant ho gaye.
What *is* your point about destroyed temples which gives people like Bt and others to carry on their tirade, against people who were not there when these deeds occured?
What do you and others hope to achieve?
I’m asking this without caps. ab tau jawab milna chahiye.
Ok. Since I really don’t know what was in SRK’s mind, I can only deduct and use logic.
His own wife is Gauri Khan, and children are IIRC Aryan Khan and Suhana Khan aur something like that – so whatever was on his mind it was definitely not degrading, mocking, communal or anything negative.
It must have been a moment of silliness or he thought he was being witty.
Another explanation is;
Rekha is a hindi word (meaning line) – so should he greet in hindi
Khan is an urdu word – so should he greet in urdu language.
Beyond this I don’t see anything sinister.
ab aap ki baari. Bataiye ki aap ka point kya hai aur in sab baaton ka aim kya hai, annt kahan hai?
Fine he likes Hitler’s Art….he did not follows on Hitlers acts though… however Akbar did… and he has been made a demigod by the leftie historians.
Thackrey was a selfish and ruthless Politician like any other lekin just because he spoke against Pakistan Sympathizing Mislims and against Pakistan and Shiv Sena acted as big detterrent to the eising Islamization of Bombay , he has been singled out by all and sundry…….
There are a lot of people who admire Obama but do NOT like his Drone strikes so ???? Liking and Act like are two different things ………
OldCold- aapke SRK kee jawab dekh kar ek gaan yaad aa gaya-
Please I am sorry and will request satyam to delete it if you do not like it- ” Ek Chatur Naar, badee Hoshiyaar, Badi khoobsoorti sey baat Ghoomaye” LOL!!
I do not mind/ care a damn about criticism of any politician whether vajpayee, Thackrey, Modi, Advani….but blanket statements like reborn as Muslim…. ka Karara Jawaab milega !
I feel so proud when I se mainstream muslims doing well in Indian society and living as Indian…
I believe that Modi is NOT the future for this country and we need someone like Vajpayee jee ……
@omrocky
LOL! I
Almost missed this comment. There’s so much traffic here all of a sudden.
I too don’t care for politicians, but object to glorifying one who shouldn’t be, who according to me was not ruthless and selfish like ‘other’ politicians. He was beyond even that.
I definitely feel bad about the destruction of many things including the temples by the muslim invaders (also those Budha statues in Afghanistan), and a lot of written stuff was burned during these invasions (it breaks my heart to think of all that written word going up in flames).
According to my way of thinking, none of this will ever be restored, it happened a long time ago, one has to see to the present and not carry on and on about what has been lost.
And I fail to really understand what all these policies of such parties wish to achieve. That’s why it was a genuine question to you.
November 15, 2012
Movie Review
Infidelity, Grandly Staged
By A. O. SCOTT
Bad literary adaptations are all alike, but every successful literary adaptation succeeds in its own way. The bad ones — or let’s just say the average ones, to spare the feelings of hard-working wig makers and dialect coaches — are undone by humility, by anxious obeisance to the cultural prestige of literature. The good ones succeed through hubris, through the arrogant assumption that a great novel is not a sacred artifact but rather a lump of interesting material to be shaped according to the filmmaker’s will.
The British director Joe Wright has seemed to me — up to now — to belong to the dreary party of humility. His screen versions of Jane Austen’s “Pride and Prejudice” and Ian McEwan’s “Atonement” are not terrible, just cautious and responsible. For all their technical polish and the admirable discipline of their casts, those films remain trapped in literariness. Instead of strong, risky interpretations, they offer crib notes and the pale flattery of imitation. The proof of their mediocrity is that admirers of Austen or Mr. McEwan will find no reason for complaint.
Mr. Wright’s “Anna Karenina” is different. It is risky and ambitious enough to count as an act of artistic hubris, and confident enough to triumph on its own slightly — wonderfully — crazy terms. Pious Tolstoyans may knit their brows about the stylistic liberties Mr. Wright and the screenwriter, Tom Stoppard, have taken, but surely Tolstoy can withstand (and may indeed benefit from) their playful, passionate rendering of his masterpiece.
The challenge of “Anna Karenina” is that Tolstoy’s loose and baggy monster of a novel is more than large, bigger than great: it is comprehensive. As it glides among its many characters, reading their thoughts and dissecting their desires, the book becomes a vivid panorama of an entire society, you might even say a whole species. “Anna Karenina” does not take place, as movie-trailer voice-overs might say, “in a world” of such and such exotic customs. The book lives in the world, in the busy, contingent present tense of mid-19th-century Imperial Russia, which contained everything Tolstoy knew. To try to reproduce that world according to the canons of 21st-century movie realism would be to diminish and falsify his narrative, which ascends through cultural and social detail into a realm of universal emotion.
Mr. Wright’s brilliant gamble is to arrive at this level of emotional authenticity by way of self-conscious artifice. The cities of Moscow and St. Petersburg are rendered as elaborate stage sets. (Sarah Greenwood is the production designer.) Characters make their way around props, past painted backdrops and through catwalks, ropes and backstage rigging. You get the sense that in these bureaucratic offices, ministerial meetings and aristocratic households, everyday life is a form of theater. To play your part in this intricately hierarchical society you must speak your lines, hit your marks, know your place and beware of improvisation.
But the film itself is the very opposite of stagy. The camera hurtles through the scenery as if in hungry pursuit; the lush colors of the upholstery and the costumes pulsate with feeling; the music (by Dario Marianelli) howls and sighs and the performances are fresh, energetic and alive. Compressing the important events of Tolstoy’s thousand pages into an impressively swift two hours and change, Mr. Wright turns a sweeping epic into a frantic and sublime opera.
The principal diva is Keira Knightley, her hair dyed black, her cheekbones veiled and her slender frame encased in gowns that function like satin mood rings. We sometimes talk about characters having arcs, but Anna Karenina is more like a human wave tank, rising and falling according to the contradictions of her temperament. The loyal, bored wife of a dry, virtuous government official (played with heartbreaking tact by Jude Law), Anna travels from St. Petersburg to Moscow to calm a marital storm in the household of her brother, Stiva Oblonsky (Matthew Macfadyen), who has been cheating on his wife, Dolly (Kelly Macdonald).
Oblonsky’s adultery foreshadows what is perhaps the most famous infidelity in literature, though his philandering is also trivial compared to the affair that Anna will pursue with Count Vronsky, a young military officer. I assume you know that it ends badly, but Mr. Wright’s real interest, like Tolstoy’s, is in everything that happens in between Anna’s first meeting with Vronsky and her final encounter with the wheels of a train. Aaron Taylor-Johnson, with curly blond hair, a crisp white uniform and the kind of mustache that would have melted hearts in an Upper West Side singles bar around 1974, turns Vronsky into a pretty, impulsive enigma. He has the eyes of a poet, but it is hard to shake the suspicion that this would-be romantic hero is, at heart, a shallow hedonist dominated by his imperious mother (Olivia Williams).
The possibility that Vronsky might not be worthy of Anna is a source of the agonizing pathos that follows their initial, headlong bliss. Their sun-dappled season of sexual ecstasy is followed by recrimination, insecurity and punishment. But the Anna-Vronsky folie à deux is hardly the only story “Anna Karenina” has to tell. “Why do they call it love, anyway?” Dolly’s younger sister, Kitty, asks in the throes of girlish romantic disappointment. Her sister replies, “Because it’s love,” and the whole movie can be taken as an unpacking of this apparent tautology — as a study in the varieties of love.
Kitty, a young woman of almost unbearable loveliness played by the Swedish actress Alicia Vikander, is adored by Levin, a gloomy ginger-haired rural landowner. (“Harry Potter” fans will be pleased to see Domhnall Gleeson, the former Bill Weasley, in this role.) Levin is widely understood to be Tolstoy’s alter ego, and his idea of love — as the pure, ennobling union of souls — is an idealistic rebuke to the cynical amorality that festers in the cities. When it visits Levin, the film exchanges the trappings of theatricality for a lyrical naturalism, inhaling the fresh air of open fields and the homely aromas of a drafty wooden manor house.
Levin’s ardent goodness — his devotion to Kitty is connected to his belief in social justice and his faith in God — stands in contrast to Oblonsky’s cheerful selfishness, Karenin’s stern morality and Vronsky’s immature swooning. And “Anna Karenina,” in spite of the complicated woman at its center, is in many ways a study in the varieties of male behavior. This is partly because the world it depicts is one in which, as one character notes, the rules are made for and by husbands and fathers. It is men who act and choose, while women suffer, wait and watch.
How you measure the distance between that world — a bygone reality if you are reading Tolstoy; a constructed one if you are watching Mr. Wright’s movie — and the one we inhabit will be a matter of perspective. Mr. Stoppard and Mr. Wright offer “Anna Karenina” and its heroine to the gods of melodrama, who receive her gladly. But their film, wild and emotional as it is, does not quite hit the deep, resonant note of tragedy that would lift it above the merely (by which I mean the merely very) good. At the end you may be dazzled, touched and a bit tired. But, really, you should feel as if you had been hit by a train.
Obviously it’s a very well-written piece but it also gets to the heart of many discussions on this blog on a variety of related matters. First off, there is a thinking behind it that one can follow and then agree or disagree with. Earlier I saw some of Alex’s views on Rangan that I totally disagree with but that I also find completely wrong-headed in terms of figuring out what this critic is about. With the latter once again one can disagree with a lot of things but one is always clear about where he [Rangan] is coming from. And it’s not about taking a few reviews but looking at the entire arc of his writing in terms of his thinking or understanding how his perspectives on cinema inform his writings. Again this doesn’t mean one cannot agree with him but that larger arc has to be considered. Alex’s idea that somehow Rangan has a condescending take on Bollywood is simply wrong. There is no debate to be had here. One can take issue with other views of Rangan but the idea that he looks down on most of Bollywood just does not pass the basic smell test.
But secondly note how A O Scott isn’t simply ‘thinking’ about whether Anna Karenina is an ‘enjoyable’ film or not in isolation. He also isn’t asking absurd questions like ‘is it better than most Hollywood films?’ and so on. He is quite appropriately examining the ‘interpretation’ this movie offers of its source. How the translation works from one medium to another, how defensible the choices might be, how imaginative the aesthetic options employed.. etc. It is quite clear from the review that ultimately Scott considers this film some sort of failure though a worthwhile one and where one could also learn a great deal from the director’s choices.
This film is an adaptation but the central questions animating every important review are the same. It’s not just about a set of impressionistic choices but also a ‘thinking’ of cinema that is brought forth in the writings of any significant critic. They don’t have to be theorists of cinema but they do ‘think’ the films they watch for something more than a serviceable narrative or basic entertainment value. Often in debates on this blog (not only here) too much of the writing from one member or another is misunderstood on these grounds. Even moreso objections to a film even when seriously backed up by such a ‘thinking’ are considered to be flowery attempts at working through an agenda, related to a star or director or what have you.
Once more no one has to agree with anything no matter how well-argued but it is important to understand what is being said. Because certain kinds of views should be taken seriously even when one disagrees with everything and others shouldn’t even when one agrees with all that is being said. We all have a right to our views, I’m not creating a hierarchy here. At the same time it would be absurd to just level the playing field completely and for example suggest that the difference between Rangan and Taran Adarsh or that between Rangan and Khalid Mohd is simply a matter of taste. There is only one ‘thinker’ here among these names!
I should lastly emphasize the ‘impressionistic’ bit. Scott doesn’t say stuff like ‘the film really spoke to me’, ‘it touched my heart’, ‘it changed my life’, etc etc. A good critic will indulge in these personal moments from time to time but these will never constitute the essential argument of the review. In many other cases entire pieces are put together this way. One is none the wiser by the end. So yeah someone got spiritual enlightenment watching a film, the person next to her didn’t, and that’s the end of the matter! That’s a prescription for democracy, not one for serious opinion!
Good note Satyam and a ‘back to form’ one indeed
“That’s a prescription for democracy, not one for serious opinion!”
Is the “take home point”
Also –in certain things, one can “agree to disagree” as long as one is not “disagreeable”
Also certain points about rangans leaving IIT & changing paths to apparently “follow a dream” & to where ?–golmaals, Bol bachxhans and creatively deconstructing them
I know his worth and hence it irked me somewhat that he is paining himself to ‘review’ these ‘works’
I think the plane of thought missed most here …
But I repeat –that the above analytical piece proves and vindicates my earlier stand that interms of ‘content’ & ‘relevance’ ( not witty creative writing and eye catching vignettes) Satyam is ahead of rangan
And knowing me -u can be assured that I don’t praise u for the sake if it (like many others here) 🙂
Ps: this movie should bring forth another version of the complicated woman onscreen ( as if there aren’t already enuf around) hahaha
love the last line. shallow minds all over internet are advocating democracy in these matters. anybody who doesn’t love anything put out by these creatively bankrupt film-makers is labelled as narrow-minded and pretentious. and you are told to look at box office numbers because hey, people love this crap, so who are you to think you are above the aam junta’s verdict? thing is, public has already voted for these with their money. democracy is freedom to watch anything you want. doesn’t mean i have to vote for it with my opinion too. my freedom to not like it, or not even give it my attention or money or criticize it if i didn’t like it is equally important. these days, to go with popular opinion (i.e. to be a cipher with no personality or opinion of your own) is considered cool. watching salman khan films is cool because they make 200-minus-something cr, no matter he was considered a has-been joke 3 years ago. taking your foreigner friends to watch mediocre bw films is cool so they can patronizingly find them cute. and to not know the body of work of a renowned reviewer or understand his sensibility or the nuance of his writings is cool because he can just be dismissed as a smart-alec who looks down upon films you are forced to enjoy because you don’t have much choice, it’s not like there are so many better options out there. i don’t agree with rangan or ebert most times (i feel they are too nice about most films that don’t deserve it), but i enjoy their writings nonetheless. but the biggest argument being thrown around these days is numbers (even when they are sub-par or exaggerated or don’t tell the whole story) because most people can’t articulate an actual argument.
Oops hahha another ‘lethal missile attack’–I’m enjoying it…
Time to duck and run into the (waiting) arms of Oldgold and Amy for some box office discussions (read TLC–‘tender loving care’)
But Amy –no more probing questions over my whereabouts in Europe –the only thing u haven’t asked me is my exact address –c’mon I’m a shy guy–i cant be seen to be arranging dates in london here, u know—u truly are ‘living’ your anushka role, Amy 🙂
Sm seems to have come a long way from her early days here she used to fantasise and go orgasmic about some superlative Salman performances like veergati, love love love (was that the movie?) and hello brother …
Now when Salman is ACTUALLY doing something worth appreciating, sm doesn’t talk much about it
If I remember correctly– haven’t heard sm talking about ETT/bg/ready-other maguc opus true blockbuster
Don’t worry sm–not pulling your leg–u are v ‘sensitive’ and don’t want u to withdraw into your shelf
And Amy- i know u don’t mind me ‘pulling your legs’ –(my suspicion is u enjoy it though 🙂 chillax
@Antya: The tension between popular and “high” culture has always existed. I do count it as a triumph of democracy that nowadays the two are given equal respect, at least in the west. No respected critic worth the name ever refers to any film, no mater how dire it may be, with the kind of terms you have used. It is this kind of judgemental terminology which sets apart film discussions in India from other places. In other words, whether one is actually capable of understanding and/or appreciating the “high” culture arts, one can always pretend to have reached those heights by looking down on the popular culture.
When anything attains popularity, a student or scholar of society strives to understand the reasons for its popularity. To merely dismiss all popular entities with monickers such as “crap” is showing one’s own narrow mindedness. In the U.S. one finds thousands of books analyzing and interpreting the appeal of the Star Wars films, for instance. One even has university courses on the Star Trek TV series. Neither of these is exactly “high art”, but they nevertheless inspired devotion from millions of people. It is worthwhile trying to understand why. There are also many university courses devoted to understanding the appeal of such phenomena as soap operas on TV or the vampire films and books. While some think of this as proof of how universities waste taxpayers’ money, the main point is that studying such subjects leads us to understand the society and culture of that work of art in question (and yes, in this sense they are all works of art). When one does study the matter, one often finds solid craftsmanship underneath the seeming banality, as well as important markers of the culture’s development in time. I think this is the kind of “thinking” Satyam referred to in his post.
nowhere did i say all popular art is crap. neither is what some may consider ‘high art’ liked, understood or experienced the same by everybody. i like my share of pop culture phenomenon that many may consider beneath them. but that’s no reason for me to attack those people as judgmental and elitist. and there are plenty of very respected critics out there who gleefully shred various forms of popular entertainment to pieces in much worse terms. Check out ebert’s ‘your movie sucks’ files. i apologize for not being elegant enough in my criticism. the point is i don’t have to jump on one bandwagon or another.
and i don’t know how many times one can belabor the same point, but both high and low end entertainment can be done well or not. all popular masala films are not the same, they can be excellent or ‘crappy’ as i like to call them with my limited vocabulary. just as all low-budget indie films are not good (very few of them are). the fact that people study why some low end pop culture phenomenon become so and what they say about society is hardly reason to like them. i am not sure what that has to do with anything. i have read lots of excellent pieces on the twilight phenomenon but nothing will make me buy a ticket to go watch one of those movies.
As for anya –she currently enjoys ‘immunity’
She is always right –don’t mind her ‘missiles’ 🙂
“Check out ebert’s ‘your movie sucks’ files. i apologize for not being elegant enough in my criticism. the point is i don’t have to jump on one bandwagon or another.”– Aahaa
Btw lovely (& educational for me) interaction there btw anya & sm
Now 4 sum more work (hopefully)
@Satyam: I’d say even among the trio of Rangan, Anupama Chora, and Rajeev Masand, there is only one “thinker.” I bring up these two other names because they, especially Chopra, proclaim themselves to be heroically bearing the white man’s burden (I use this phrase advisedly) to “educate” and “civilize” the masses on what cinema is all about.
Thanx to this timely link
Should be worth just for how wright depicts st peterberg of that era –a place that still resonates with character
“. We sometimes talk about characters having arcs, but Anna Karenina is more like a human wave tank, rising and falling according to the contradictions of her temperament” –ah another complicated woman –though kneightly isnt a great choice
Apparently this is better than the previous version -the Sophie Marceau one
Anna Karenina and Gone with the Wind. One depicts an insecure woman and another a confident or a ruthless one. Both are selfish and both are beautiful. Seems only very beautiful women inspire writers. And the men must be dashing, confident and dismissive to get that hero tag.
two of the most enduring female characters in literature are elizabeth bennett and jane eyre. though elizabeth is pretty enough, they are both known for being headstrong, opinionated females, definitely not for beauty. i know what you are saying, not that this stereotype does not exist. it does, because all kinds of popular art caters to human fantasies. but these writers have also managed to write gripping stories and ultimately it’s the stories that fire up people’s imagination.
Sanju- good point– your crisp one-liners are a by-product of a certain ‘clarity of thought’ & a certain ‘ direction of mentation’–keep it up
Yeah this ‘raw material’ (as u mentinoned) is taken, peppered up and served to the public used to contrast and unambiguity to fathom something remotely complex
Final ‘Twilight’ Movie Tops Weekend Box Office
By BROOKS BARNES
The final “Twilight” movie arrived in North America in time for the weekend — the gooey end of an era for some, not a moment too soon for others — and took in an estimated $141.3 million. Made for about $120 million by Lionsgate’s Summit Entertainment, “The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part 2” was easily the No. 1 movie in the land (including overseas, where it took in an additional $199.6 million). Still, it did not smash opening-weekend records, as some analysts had hoped; adjusting for inflation, “The Twilight Saga: New Moon” sold $154 million in tickets in November 2009.
“Skyfall” (Sony) was second at North American theaters over the weekend, taking in about $41.5 million, for a two-week total of $161.3 million, according to Hollywood.com, which compiles box-office data. Riding raves from critics and backed by a no-stone-unturned marketing campaign, Steven Spielberg’s “Lincoln” (DreamWorks Studios via Disney) was a strong third, selling about $21 million in tickets in its first weekend of wide release, for a new total of $22.4 million. The weekend performance for “Lincoln” is noteworthy because the movie played in only 1,775 locations (compared with 4,070 for “Twilight”) and because older moviegoers, the group most likely to see “Lincoln,” tend to avoid opening-weekend hype. “Wreck-It Ralph” (Disney) was fourth, taking in $18.3 million, for a three-week total of $121.5 million; Paramount’s “Flight” was fifth, selling about $8.6 million in tickets, lifting its three-week total to $61.3 million.
For some reason Skyfall got good critic reviews but audience reviews have been rather lukewarm. Many friends and coworkers have seen it and most of them say it is below average. I haven’t met a single person who has wholeheartedly said it is a good movie and recommended it.
saw it last night and IMO casino royale (2006) was a notch above this one. Skyfall was more about the solid acting than about the script. this was the most melodramatic bond movie probably ever.
Amusing article on Kim Jong-Il’s passion for cinema- has anyone seen a North Korean film?
“In pursuit of his filmic ambitions, Kim also kidnapped Shin Sang-ok, a prolific South Korean director, and his glamorous actress wife, Choi Eun-hee. He had lured them to Repulse Bay in Hong Kong and then one night, a sack soaked in a chloroform-like substance was pulled over Shin’s head.”
Why I can’t pay tribute to Thackeray – Hon’ble Justice Katju (Retired Judge, Apex Court)
His bhumiputra theory flies in the face of our Constitution and works against the unity needed to ensure development
Muppadhu kodi mugamudayal
Enil maipuram ondrudayal
Ival Seppumozhi padhinetudayal
Enil Sindhanai ondrudayal
(This Bharatmata has 30 crore faces
But her body is one
She speaks 18 languages
But her thought is one)
Tamil poet Subramania Bharathi
Bhedad gana vinauyanti bhinnah supajapah paraih
Tasmat samghatayogesu prayateran ganah sada
(Republics have been destroyed because of internal divisions among the people;
Hence a republic should always strive to achieve unity and good relations among the people)
Mahabharat, Shanti Parva, chapter 108, shloka 14
Tesam anyonyabhinnanam svauaktim anutisthatam
Nigrahah panditaih karyah ksipram eva pradhanatah
(Therefore the wise authorities should crush the separatist forces trying to assert their strength)
Mahabharat, Shanti Parva, 108:26
Political leaders, film stars, cricketers, etc. are all falling over one another to pay tribute to the late Bal Thackeray. Amidst this plethora of accolades and plaudits pouring in from the high and mighty, I humbly wish to register my vote of dissent.
I know of the maxim De mortuis nil nisi bonum (of the dead speak only good), but I regret I cannot, since I regard the interest of my country above observance of civil proprieties.
What is Bal Thackeray’s legacy?
It is the anti-national ‘sons of the soil’ (bhumiputra) theory.
Article 1(1) of the Indian Constitution states: “India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.”
Thus, India is not a confederation but a union.
Article 19 (1) (e) states: “All citizens shall have the right — to reside and settle in any part of the territory of India.”
Thus, it is a fundamental right of a Gujarati, south Indian, Bihari, U.P.ite, or person from any other part of India to migrate to Maharashtra and settle down there, just as it is of Maharashtrians to settle down in any part of India (though there are some restrictions in J&K, and some North-East States, due to historical reasons).
The bhumiputra theory states that Maharashtra essentially belongs to Marathi people, while Gujaratis, south Indians, north Indians, etc. are outsiders. This is in the teeth of Articles 1(1) and 19(1)(e) of the Constitution. India is one nation, and hence non-Maharashtrians cannot be treated as outsiders in Maharashtra.
The Shiv Sena created by Thackeray attacked south Indians in the 1960s and 70s, and vandalised their restaurants and homes. In 2008, Biharis and U.P.ites living in Mumbai (the bhaiyyas who eke out a livelihood as milk and newspaper vendors, taxi drivers etc.) were described as infiltrators and attacked, their taxis smashed, and several beaten up. Muslims were also vilified
This, of course, created a vote bank for Thackeray based on hatred (as had Hitler, of whom Thackeray was an admirer), and how does it matter if the country breaks up and is Balkanised?
Apart from the objection to the ‘sons of the soil’ theory for being anti-national and unconstitutional, there is an even more basic objection, which may rebound on Thackeray’s own people.
India is broadly a country of immigrants (like North America) and 92-93 per cent of the people living in India today are not the original inhabitants but descendants of immigrants who came mainly from the north-west seeking a comfortable life in the sub-continent (see the article ‘What is India?’ and the video on the website kgfindia.com ).
The original inhabitants (the real bhumiputra) of India are the pre-Dravidian tribals, known as Adivasis (the Bhils, Gonds, Santhals, Todas, etc.) who are only 7-8 per cent of our population today.
Hence if the bhumiputra theory is seriously implemented, 92-93 per cent of Maharashtrians (including, perhaps, the Thackeray family) may have to be regarded as outsiders and treated accordingly. The only real bhumiputra in Maharashtra are the Bhils and other tribals, who are only 7-8 per cent of the population of Maharashtra.
Several separatist and fissiparous forces are at work in India today (including the bhumiputra theory). All patriotic people must combat these forces.
Why must we remain united? We must remain united because only a massive modern industry can generate the huge wealth we require for the welfare of our people — agriculture alone cannot do this — and modern industry requires a huge market. Only a united India can provide the huge market for the modern industry we must create to abolish poverty, unemployment and other social evils, and to provide for the huge health care and modern education systems we must set up if we wish to come to the front ranks of the most advanced countries.
Hence I regret I cannot pay any tribute to Mr. Bal Thackeray.
But they have this “bhumiputra” concept in lots of parts of India, don’t they? Constitutional or not. For instance, in Hyderabad, they have the concept of “mulki”, ie., one who is born in Nizam, who get preferential treatment for things like college admission, certain government jobs, etc. So it’s not unique to Mumbai.
– I guess i am not expert on concepts, etc and with zero knowledge on religion etc, cant comment.
– I can say onething about Constitution, it is supreme, anything violating the constitution is nul, void ab initio. We the People of this Country gave ourselves this Constitution.
– I dont know if the concepts violates the Constitution. That is for every person to person to decide, i havent applied my mind, read something and posted for others to read and decide. I have no comments of my own!
There’s no religion involved in the concept of “bhumiputra” or “mulki”, as it only refers to the place where one is born. Since Mr. Katju above claimed this is against the constitution, I mentioned the word unconstitutional.
In any case, there are lots of things that are in the constitution which are either being ignored or not implemented.
Now I’ve read a bit more of Mr. Katju’s letter or article, and if he seriously claims that 92-93% of India’s inhabitants are immigrants, well, I have nothing further to say.
There is reservation / preference for locals in almost all the professional degree colleges (Engg, Medicine), in Mumbai, Hyderabad etc. As far as I know 50% (maybe less) of the seats in RECs (Now NITs) are for locals – the state in which the college is. Atleast it used to be that way when they were RECs. And medical colleges all over India too have that rule (but not aiims, afmc etc). State jobs I think are more severe.
21-year-old girl arrested for Facebook post slamming Bal Thackeray
Police on Sunday arrested a 21-year-old girl for questioning the total shutdown in the city for Bal Thackeray’s funeral on her Facebook account.
Another girl who ‘liked’ the comment was also arrested.
The duo were booked under Section 295 (a) of the IPC (for hurting religious sentiments ) and Section 64 (a) of the Information Technology Act, 2000. Though the girl withdrew her comment and apologized, a mob of some 2,000 Shiv Sena workers attacked and ransacked her uncle’s orthopaedic clinic at Palghar, north of Mumbai.
The 21-year-old arrested for her Facebook post was among many who aired opinions on social networking sites.
“Her comment said people like Thackeray are born and die daily and one should not observe a ‘bandh’ (city shutdown) for that,” Police Inspector Uttam Sonawane told the Mumbai Mirror.
Despite widespread concerns, there were no reports of unrest in Mumbai itself on the day of Bal Thackeray’s crematon.,
In recent months, the country has shown sensitivity to criticism of its politicians, sparking criticism in turn from freedom of speech campaigners.
In September, campaigners were outraged by the arrest in Mumbai on charges of sedition of a cartoonist for his anti-corruption drawings. The charges were later dropped.
Well, haven’t they recently passed a law that people can be jailed for posting “disrespectful” things about politicians on the net, FB, Twitter, etc.? That’s the basis on which that cartoonist was jailed, wasn’t it? So again, this is not something unique to Shiv Sena. In fact, the legislation was passed by the UPA government.
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Collects 75 Crore Nett Over Its Extended Weekend
Monday 19th November 2012 11.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan has collected 75 crore nett approx over its extended six day weekend. The all India collections on Sunday were lower than Saturday as Maharashtra was shut at many places due to the funeral of Shiv Sena leader Balasaheb Thackeray. The film collected around 9.25 crore nett on Sunday.
The film suffered more in Maharashtra than Son Of Sardaar as the film was recording higher collections before the shutdown. The film collected 45 core nett in the first three days and 30 crore nett in the next three days and suffered to the tune of 3.75 crore in Maharashtra.
The territorial figures of the extended weekend will be published in the evening.
so they’re basically saying the film would have had 78.75 crores instead of 75 crores. This is hardly an earth-shattering difference and doesn’t explain the 45 crore versus 30 crore differential for first 3 days versus next 3 (competition was the same in either case).
Now it is 74 crore and 58 crore on the website.
Both are lower than I would have expected after the first 3 days even accounting for decline in business in territories.
For a big film to post pretty weak numbers on Sunday is surprising. Fair to say the Tuesday release exhausted the audiences largely.
Today is the big day really. JTHJ is declining faster but probably is more a youths film so could be better during weekdays. Who knows. But not going to get close to 130 crores + now. More like 110-125 crores now. SS might just get to 100 crore but thats not a given.
Going by screens think JTHJ had 2,500 and SOS had 2,000. So it was roughly a 55%/45% split with clearly JTHJ having “better” quality screening. The business to date is also split roughly 55%/45%.
In this sense, SOS has performed quite well to challenge a biggie, earn more than its share of collections. If the split in screens was more even, who knows, an Ajay Devgn starrer had the beating of a SRK starrer!
actually if you think about it SRK has had a poor or relatively poor record since 2004 (if you excludes overseas returns) with the one exception of 2007 when he had the CDI/OSO double. In ’04 he had MHN and VZ and Swades. The former did the best. the second had the biggest initial of the three though did trend all that well by the standards prevalent then. Swades didn’t do anything but got his some favorable critical attention and ultimately this isn’t the sort of film that truly hurts one even when it is a failure. But since then he’s had Paheli (didn’t work though opened well for the subject), KANK (opened big and tanked), Don (opened moderately, trended ok), CDI/OSO (both did very well), RNDBJ (opened solidly but not great, trended well), MNIK (opened moderately, trended poorly), Ra One (opened strongly with an advertising budget greater than the combined ones of all the other 100 crore films in all probability! plus the Disney effect so you have kids who couldn’t show up without parents, still didn’t have the biggest ever opening days and tanked eventually), Don2 (same story as the first one), now JTHJ (opening moderate to solid, trending might be decent but a big total by current standards is certainly not going to come about here). So you put it all together and for about 8 years you’re much more likely to get a good start for a SRK film (whether the genre is his strength one or something like Don) followed by decent trending than a spectacular one followed by good trending. The latter has only happened once with OSO. Twice he’s failed at this paradigm with KANK and Ra One. In short SRK just hasn’t been exciting the box office in this period. It’s not about comparing him with Aamir here or more recently with Salman. However one defines a film that excites the box office and many films have done it in this period, not all with marquee stars, SRK just isn’t falling in that category. Now on the overseas these numbers have remained strong for him for the most part but even here cracks have appeared. For example in the US one of the the big cornerstones of his overseas gross there’s no film of his remotely close to the 3I gross. Or RNBDJ grossed less than Ghajini here. Even leaving aside the US the fact is that his numbers even though strong are not miles ahead of the competition as they once were. Still one should grant him these overseas numbers because he’d be thrilled to have something comparable in India!
Will say again here what I’ve said for a long time. SRK has simply not been a smart manager of his brand value in a period when he needed reinvention. I have been his greatest critic for many reasons but he might have done better than he has in this period.
“Actually if you think about it SRK has had a poor or relatively poor record since 2004 (if you excludes overseas returns) with the one exception of 2007 when he had the CDI/OSO double”
Haha ROFL
it should be replaced with—
“Actually if you think about it SRK has had a poor or relatively poor record since 1990”
Why all this effort & ‘struggle’ ?
One can do anything on ones laptop/iPad including creative writing –does it matter though
The rest of the passage won’t be needed .. 🙂
The other interesting thing is that it is now a well established fact even by most sane srk fans that srks pull is not the same.
But it’s some of his detractors who feel the urgent ‘need’ or let’s say ‘call of lust’ to emphasise it /underline it & in a way–reassure themselves that it is indeed happening
Nothing wrong with that–but just an innocent unbiased observation 😉
Son Of Sardaar Collects 59 Crore Nett Over Its Extended Weekend
Monday 19th November 2012 11.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar has collected 59 crore nett approx over its extended six day weekend. The collections on Sunday were similar to Saturday as Maharashtra was shut at many places due to the funeral of Shiv Sena leader Balasaheb Thackeray. The film collected around 8.50 crore nett on Sunday.
Even in other circuits there was not the normal growth associated with a Sunday as the film had released on Tuesday. Still the film got closest to Jab Tak Hai Jaan on Sunday as that film had higher collections in the Maharashtra area so lost more than Son Of Sardaar. The film collected 34 core nett in the first three days and 25 crore nett in the next three days and suffered to the tune of 2.50 crore in Maharashtra.
The territorial figures of the extended weekend will be published in the evening.
again note how for a film that is more affected by current events in Maharashtra (JTHJ) the differential with SOS is just 1.25 crores! That’s nothing! So SOS loses 2.5 crores and JTHJ 3.75?!
Very roughly JTHJ has done 60% of its 6 day gross in the first 3 days, SOS has done about 40%. So the latter is more stable in this period. And again the revenue lost is not massive either way to change either film’s trajectory.
I actually thought there would be more business lost but looks like Qalandar’s initial point about this was correct.
Meanwhile Taran has JTHJ at 80 and SOS at 66. So he’s 5 crores ahead on the former with respect to BOI, and 7 on the latter.
Again compare his breakup:
JTHJ: Tue 15.23 cr, Wed 19.54 cr, Thu 14.45 cr, Fri 11.17 cr, Sat 10.38 cr, Sun 9.96 cr.
SOS: Tue 10.72 cr, Wed 16.21 cr, Thu 12.22 cr, Fri 10.12 cr, Sat 8.50 cr, Sun 8.25 cr.
BOI had a similar story, at points they had SOS even closer. But in any case barring Tue and Wed there’s never more than a 2 crore differential between the two movies. Opening day had the strongest gap. On Wed it’s a little more than 3, on THu 2, Fri 1, Sat again 2 and Sun more than 1. Taran says both films were affected in Maharashtra and doesn’t single one out as being more affected though I do agree that JTHJ was the bigger loser. But either way the numbers provided by BOI (hardly tough on SRK!) don’t suggest a game-changing difference. In fact in the larger scheme of things this loss for both films is probably negligible.
All of this once again illustrates the larger point. Neither film has truly excited the box office but SOS is doing better so far all factors considered (in India). Put differently if SOS gets to 100 crores or a bit more it would be extremely creditable for the film and even without competition it probably wouldn’t have added massively to this total. JTHJ on the other hand had a solid start, again all factors considered, but it wasn’t spectacular. Interest leading upto the release wasn’t great and clearly the WOM wasn’t very strong. With one or more of these factors those truly big numbers would have been seen. Nonetheless if it trends well it would still have done reasonably but obviously the expectation from this kind of project would not have been remotely fulfilled.
Now as for the overseas argument some are making I think this is old hat and people should call it a day on this! For years many Hollywood underperformers did vastly better overseas, specially in East Asia. No one was calling them hits in the US! Taran incidentally has 122 crores so far with overseas included. Wonder how even this combined total stacks up with just ETT’s first 5-7 days in India? LOL!
Copying/Pasting my own review from my site 🙂
ALRIGHT…FINALLY, it is time for the big review! JAB TAK HAI JAAN
The film starts off with Major Samar Anand (Shahrukh Khan) diffusing his 98th bomb. He is known as “The Man Who Cannot Die”. He’s very introverted and quite emotionless. Proceed forward…after the starting credits, we meet Akira Rai (Anushka Sharma), who wants to get a feature with Discovery Channel. She almost drowns in water when Samar saves her. She gets a hold of Samar’s diary. And we delve into his past, taking place in London. He works multiple jobs to earn money. He sees Meera (Katrina Kaif) and they start interacting. Samar falls for her and she falls for him. After Samar gets into an accident, Meera prays that if God lets Samar live, she will never see him. As she tells Samar, he starts becoming bitter. Now, he’s on a war with God. Akira meets Samar again, but, despite many advances, she’s rejected by Samar. How the three characters’ lives intertwine is the rest of the story.
First commendable thing about this movie is this. You must have a lot of confidence in yourself and your movie to be able to take on religion, especially in India. This war between God and Man plays with the psyche of a person and Yash Chopra did an AMAZING job with that!
In very simple words, film’s story is about love and hope.
Several times in the story, I found myself changing sides as to who should end up with Samar. Very few movies can leave a dilemma about that.
Story & Screenplay — The story is good enough, I guess. Can’t really say too much about it. It’s a very simple plot, which has a few loopholes here and there. Overall, it is a love story, which Bollywood knows how to do to perfection (in quite a few films!). Screenplay is impeccable. It needs to applauded. It is CRISP. It focuses on what the story needs it to focus on and doesn’t ever swerve from its point. 3.5/5 (Extra 0.5 point because of the unpredictability of the story…I sincerely thought Samar would die in the end and the twists and turns deserve mention. The screenplay is able to tie in the two accidents that Samar goes through extremely well. And there are a few more twists)
Characters — THIS is the forte of this film. There’s 3 lead protagonists and characterization is BLOODY BRILLIANT! There are at least five points in the movie, where character development plays an ESSENTIAL role. Without this character development, it would have been a generic love story. First of all, Meera’s character changes from a nice suave girl to a more open and fun-loving person. Then, all of a sudden, bang, she is reverted back because of some incidents. Then, after some time proceeds, she becomes the fun-loving person again. And when she is telling Samar that she can’t be with him anymore, that is Katrina’s best moment in the film. Meera’s character is brilliantly written and even so, MEERA is the weakest character of the film. Anushka’s character is developed with amazing ease and a smooth transition. Samar is the strongest character (and possibly the most likeable too). The way he changes from an upbeat guy to an introvert is great. The dilemmas that he has to face, he chooses with a thought that goes along real well with his character. The first half of the film is generally based on the flashback where Samar is this awesome guy you would wanna hang out with. Then, when Meera tells him that she can’t be with him anymore (near the end of the first half)…even though that was Meera’s character’s highest point, Samar completely steals that moment. And THAT moment is worth the price of admission. I would go watch the movie again just for this moment! “Shaadi mubarak…Done Done London…” “Samar I’m sor-” “Don’t!” … the climax of the scene consists of a SINGLE word…”Don’t”. Well done to the actors for carrying that scene well. 5/5 (one can relate to the characters really well and one can even see shadows of oneself in them. being able to relate to characters is essential in a film (esp romance))
Next is performances — Shahrukh Khan — seriously? Need I say something else??? … Fine … well he’s great. A bipolar character is tough to pull for any actor. Looks like Shahrukh studied his character REALLY well. An awesome performance from the young man who has his whole life ahead of him to an introverted, broken-hearted man with a death wish…he plays them to perfection. Anushka Sharma has a hard job. She also has a pretty high range, as far as her character is concerned. From a “heartless carefree bitch” to a ‘[trying to hide her feelings]‘ kind of woman is a tough job to do. She does it pretty well. There are some moments when she just goes over the top, but, considering the initially bubbly personality of the character, that is forgiveable. Next is the weakest link in the movie…Katrina Kaif. This is the strongest performance of her career…BUT, it still sucks. Some of the moments that Shahrukh and Anushka set up really well for her, she lets them drown. She has blank expressions. But, again, with characters so well written, this performance doesn’t take away much. Rishi Kapoor and his real life wife Neetu Kapoor appear in a small role are very loveable. Anupem Kher, as Katrina’s father, does well in the miniscule role he has. But, the one person who has to be applauded is the person who plays Zain (can’t recall his real life name), Samar’s room mate. He’s done an excellent job. 4.5/5
Direction — Some of the ideas displayed in the movie (due to the story) are completely WRONG! “feeling pity for…” etc etc … BUT, the 80 year old portrayed them with great conviction. This conviction had me thinking, for the first time in about 2, 3 years…could there be a God (even though in a couple of hours i came to the conclusion how preposterous that is)? That is tough to achieve, but, he did it. Hats off to that. The veteran just displayed his ability to handle all kinds of subjects, from action all the way to romance amazingly. This is THE love story for this generation. R.I.P. Yash ji, we will miss your movies. 5/5
The technical aspects deserve a special mention, especially the cinematography and music (music I’ll talk about in a separate section)…the cinematography captures the essence of all the locations…Kashmir, Ladakh, London. Yash Chopra, with the help of Anil Mehta, makes them look glamorous…from the lavish deserted Ladakh to the snow-filled London, it is done well. However, some of the make-up in the first half is amateurish. 3.5/5
Music — Oscar-Winning A.R. Rahman … it’s not a typical high octane soundtrack that one would expect from movies. Rather it’s an emotion based soundtrack, whose lyrics are penned by Gulzar. Most of the songs represent a character. Challa is the soul of Samar Anand (he is looking for something … something is missing from his life and he’s in its search) … Saans is Meera’s song (displays her desperation for Samar’s love) … Jiya Re is Akira’s song (for her philosophies towards life). ALL of the songs are placed really well and they all move the story along swiftly and sweetly. Instead of wasting 15 minutes explaining everything, a 5 minute song does the job and it’s much more concrete. 4.5/5 (unfortunately, as we know, Yash Ji passed away before filming the last song in Switzerland)
BUT, not everything is so well. The film drags quite a bit in the second half. The editor could have done a better job cutting a couple of scenes in the first half and quite a few scenes in the second half.
So, if you’re looking for flat-out entertainment, go watch Son of Sardaar (just a fun movie with an easily predictable plot and many predictable moments). This movie is more for those who have fallen in desperate love. They will be able to understand the soul of the movie. The movie’s plot is quite simple [almost too simple (thanks to Yash Chopra’s son Aditya Chopra (can’t believe this guy actually made the CLASSIC Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge))] but the STRONGEST thing about the film is the characterization and this characterization would have been impossible without amazing performances. Yash Chopra takes a contemporary love story of this generation and makes it into an epic love saga. Yash Chopra’s farewell project is a must watch for those who enjoy cinema. 4.5/5
Simply put, this one WILL be remembered, JAB TAK HAI JAAN, JAB TAK HAI JAAN! 🙂
That SRK really really does a good job in the film seems to be universally accepted (except a few pwople).
The popular opinion about direction also seems to say that the proceedings which some may not find acceptable/understandable, become easy to accept under his style of direction – which I would interpret as good.
Wht also comes through from balanced, or positive reviews is that if nothing, the film has a soul.
Not sure when I’ll get a chance of watching this
Thank you for your review Arsh.
Will read your SOS review later.
Thanx for that review arsh
U really liked srk as expected -but there seems a ‘valid reason’ here–
“Epic love saga”–hmmm
“Challa is the soul of Samar Anand (he is looking for something … something is missing from his life and he’s in its search) … Saans is Meera’s song (displays her desperation for Samar’s love) … Jiya Re is Akira’s song (for her philosophies towards life).”—good point
U missed ‘heer’
“Next is the weakest link in the movie…Katrina Kaif”–don’t think so 😉
Katrina Kaif in JTHJ
Perhaps for the first time in her career, katrina seems to be getting her due from the viewers in JTHJ
Err-guys had been giving her the ‘due’ but this time, there has been an unexpected ‘acceptance’ of Kat in JTHJ by some finicky females.
Came across a born katrina hater who had gone on record that she will strangulate her just to prove she is ‘lifeless’ or something of that effect
I was shocked to hear from the same person that katrina was looking v good here –I think ” and ‘ishq Shava’ were good there
As usual I wasn’t paying much attention to katrina (!!) while watching the movie so can’t comment –what do folks feel here
And I wonder what is the reason in this change in ‘stance’ of those anti katrina female viewers in this case…
Heer’s placement shows the union and the separation of the two lovers. That song was placed really well in intervals to move the story along at a nice pace!
She’s a GRRRRREAT dancer and she’s pretty *wolf whistle* too. But, that’s not enough. This is her BEST FILM TO DATE…but, she still sucks! that’s all lol.
I actually went with a couple of my Chinese [I JUST HAD TO MENTION THIS LOL] friends. They really liked the film albeit the long running time. But they also thought that Katrina was just not up to par. :O
Great Review Arsh..I am feeling jealous of SRK fans like u who enjoyed the movie so much…I was quite disappointed with the story & the film….This is the second time after MNIK where SRK gave a good performance but the story didn’t support him much.
Aditya Chopra & Karan Johar should now stop writing..Their time is gone..They should allow new writers…Aditya Chopra failed as writer but will give him full marks to him for supporting his father making the movie at this age…
This film was last hope for me because SRK will be now working with Rohit Shetty & Farah Khan and who knows next may be Sajid Khan…
I will give this movie 3/5.. 0.5 extra for SRK &Anushka’s performance…Interestingly this was the SRK’s best movie among all the movies he has done after Chak De…
That’s why I am saying that to rebuke the ordinary storyline, the characterization is TOP NOTCH! That’s why I enjoyed this movie…without good characterization, I would have brought this rating down to 3.5 easily.
Adi’s stories are getting lacklustre and same with KJo (but I must say MNIK is a guilty pleasure of mine. I enjoyed it a lot lol, despite the MULTIPLE flaws in the story).
Iunno, Rohit Shetty made Singham, which I enjoyed quite a bit. His first Golmaal was fun to watch too, but, his track record isn’t that great though. But, we’ll just wait and watch. I also enjoyed Farah’s MHN, but, OSO was a VERY mediocre film IMO. But then came TMK , which has got to be one of the worst films I’ve seen in my life. So, again, let’s just wait and watch haha.
For me, this is Shahrukh’s FOURTH best film of his career after Swades, Chak De and DDLJ.
SRK once said that when people say someone “acted well” in a particular film, they are really reacting to the character, rather than the quality of performance (this was a general observation, not limited to his own roles). Over the years since he first said this, I’ve been realizing its truth more and more. I would also add, that people think a film is “good” if they like the character, and vice versa, if they liked the film, they tend to think the actor “acted well”, whether that is the case or not. I think this is why there are frequent sweeps in Hindi film awards, where the film that is voted “best film” also generally gets the awards for
best director and best actor and actress, too. This is not the case with Hollywood awards, where each component to a successful film is evaluated separately.
Which is all a long introduction to saying, for me, SRK’s best performances have been in Dil Se-Asoka ( a tie), followed by Oh Darling Yeh Hai India. I know a lot of people can’t stand that film (though I liked it well enough), but his performance was very good. I also think, for demonstration of the sheer craft of acting, Duplicate stands very high.
I’m quite ready to take the brickbats that will surely come my way now. 🙂
Performance wise, I’d say Dil Se… is second in my list, after Swades. then CDI and JTHJ.
Duplicate — I didn’t like Bablu’s character…he was all cute and weird, but, it’s just not my thing I guess. But, Mannu’s character…wow, loved that. Shahrukh did that really well!
Re Duplicate: It’s not about “liking” the character. I was talking of the craft of acting shown by SRK in that film. Yes, he exaggerated the mannerisms of Bablu to better contrast him with Mannu. But the real tour de force came when he was acting each or those characters pretending to be the other. The way he differentiated Bablu as Bablu and Bablu playing at Mannu, and Mannu as Mannu and Mannu trying to be Bablu, were the hallmarks of an outstanding performance for me.
You do have a point, however, for me, I think if I’m not indulged enough into the character, then the actor can’t possibly give a good performance to it. Of course, an actor can make a pathetic character seem good, to an extent, which shahrukh did with duplicate, but, not fully.
A great comment here SM but with all due respect to ur views how could someone find SRK effective in that atrocious double role in Duplicate (IMO Chahat and this film are Mahesh Bhatt’s worst works. A film very similar to Duplicate is Akshay’s Aflatoon where he easily scores over SRK and watching him play the bad guy is a hoot, Akki anyways plays the baddie with elan and he was pretty the sene-stealer in Ajnabee as well)- now I do like some of SRK’s negative portrayals (I absolutely loved him in Baazigar and Raam Janne, found him ok in Darr and Anjaam and couldn’t stand him in Don, I far preferred Ajith in Billa).
Anyway amongst the ‘good and bad doubles’ Bachchan’s Don/Vijay (Don) and Ravi/Babu (Satte Pe Satta)-
“But the real tour de force came when he was acting each or those characters pretending to be the other”-
I would have thought u were talking abt Bachchan in Don. Watching him as ‘Vijay pretending to be Don’ is an absolute treat- in fact he was so good at this ‘pretension’ in this film that it seemed he was playing a triple role- Don as Don, Vijay as Don and Vijay as Vijay
DOn’t worry at least I am with u on Oh Darling…. Like the film quite a bit and enjoyed Amrish as Don Quixote. Ketan Mehta had employed parodies very well and his Naseer starrer Hero Hiralal is a very good film
this is my opinion kiddo. it’s alright if you don’t agree with me. 🙂
I can say people are generally sensible about movies (even though the numbers are lowering).
Be what you want, do what you want, like what/who you want, dislike what/who you want, you’re a free man.
I la-oved JTHJ. It’s not exactly equivalent to dropping a bomb or something, so, I think I’ll stick to it 😉
But I really wanted to take a dig at the username if the last letter in your username was a “c” rather than an “r”…just sayin.
here’s the thing Arsh, you said something to Rajen, he responded. Frankly I would have just said ‘touche’ if I were you and walked away! You don’t get redo chances with this stuff! In any case that was a complete exchange and I think it’s best to end it there.
If I am allowed to do so, I will also copy/paste my Son Of Sardaar review here 😛
Okay, so, watched Son Of Sardaar. Delved into the film with low expectations, came out neither fulfilled, nor unfulfilled. Feel very mixed about SoS.
The first half is actually pretty good with joke after joke after joke. Even though some of these jokes are something that we’ve heard before, Ajay Devgan’s perfect comic timing makes them worthwhile. However, as time moves along, the movie slows down to a DRAGGING pace. The second half starts off well, but, within about 20 minutes into the second half, the excitement level starts falling by the extremes. And then, it gets worse, and worse, and the “climax” is stupid shit…applying slow-mo to every shot is not gonna stylize the film. The fight scenes would have been great (even though hell of a lot over the top) without 90% of the slow-mo used. So, the fight choreography deserves a thumb up (at least for what it is).
Story – Simple…Jassi (Ajay Devgan) goes back from London to India. Jassi and Billu’s fathers killed each other (starting a rivalry between the families). Now Billu (Sanjay Dutt) wants to kill Jassi. For some reason, Billu doesn’t hurt anyone when they’re inside his house. So, when Jassi finds out that Billu wants to kill him, he makes up excuses to stay inside the house. Here, very predictably, he falls for Billu’s sister. [fyi, almost every character in this film has an IQ lower than that of a mentally retarded person] 2.5/5
(From this simple plot, a TON of funny moments are possible, but the film barely scratches the surface of many multi-layered jokes. Even so, most of these jokes are somewhat to quite funny. So, they work well, mostly because of Devgan.)
Script/Screenplay – Even though the first half of the film could be cut down by about 10 minutes, it manages to be really quite crisp. The overall film should have been cut down by at least 45 minutes. So, that really gives away how slow the second half was. Again, it starts out well, but, starts dragging and keeps going downhill right until the end. Sanjay Dutt’s character transformation is outright stupid. As the story is predictable from start to finish, there isn’t much to spoil. So, Sanjay Dutt’s character is angry and then all of a sudden, by a few words from his mother, he completely changes. Like U-TURN! terrible (1.5/5)
Direction – It’s pretty much a slapstick comedy. So, anyone with at least some common sense can direct a film like this. But, I guess the director did his job well enough. But, I must say that some of the shots are hackneyed and some of the scenes are just outright dumb. But overall, good enough direction for a senseless script. 3/5
Performances – Ajay Devgan NEVER goes wrong with his comic timing. He’s been improving, improving and improving his whole career. His growth, as an actor, is quite visible in this movie. He does well in a role of a Sikh Sardaar. Sanjay Dutt is Sanjay Dutt…nothing else really. Juhi Chawla makes her character loveable in a smaller role. Sonakshi Sinha’s her usual self, which is getting quite tiring. Move on Sonakshi, do something a little different PLEASE! 3/5
Soundtrack – Catchy, but, stupid. Most of the songs except for Bichdann have no need to be in the movie. I guess the placement of the title song was fair enough too. But, Rani Tu Main Raja comes out of NOWHERE. PoPo closes the movie just ridiculously. 2.5/5
Overall – If you have time to kill, or if you’re an Ajay Devgan fan (which I am), then watch this movie. Otherwise, skip it because the characters make no sense, it’s so boring that it’s exhausting, and the same old jokes are repeated with better timing.
2.5/5
Thanks for the review Arsh.
I’d liked Devgn in Bol Bachhan, and I think he’s a likeable actor. Those brooding looks are attractive, though nothing like the young ABsr. But after all the shady business of the release of his film I’ve started to find those brooding looks as more of a sullen look.
I find the situation/reason of his living in Billu’s house very funny LOL!
Mustn’t blame Sonakshi for doing what she does. After all what ‘do’ heroines do in films? At least she’s not relying on bikins and such for success.
I would definitely want to see this for the laughs.
Ajay Devgan is a GOOD actor with a pretty decent amount of range. And I’m not gonna even get involved in the legality of this matter now cuz it’s just s’thing we don’t know everything about. Plus I wasn’t a part of it, so, I can’t say anything about it. 😛
I MUST blame Sonakshi for doing wut SHE does haha. I mean, who else can I blame? It’s just getting really tiring…it’s just that by making a few tweaks to her characters from, let’s say SoS, we can paste that EXACT character into Rowdy Rathore. It’s just exhausting to see that. If a script requires a heroine to wear a bikini, she should. So, I don’t have a problem with that. Also, not all heroines do that…MANY don’t. Priyanka Chopra is not successful because of “bikinis”, she’s successful cuz she has SOME talent. She has portrayed many kind of roles from the ‘gundi’ in Aitraaz to the police officer in Don 2. It’s just the different kind of movies which matter…the same character played by the same actor…I’ve already seen it…why do I need to sit through that again? that’s all
Yes, I’m proud to call myself a Devgn fan too 🙂
His most POWERHOUSE and intense performance, for me, was SINGHAM hands down! Even though his movie choices are getting kinda ‘boring’, his performances are always something worth a watch. That’s wut I love about SRK, Devgn and Aamir. I can sit through their STUPIDEST films just for their performances.
>If a script requires a heroine to wear a bikini, she should. So, I don’t have a problem with that.
LOL! Of course you wouldn’t have a problem with that.
My point was, if she did that, that would also be the run of the mill thing, every other heroine is doing it…because the script requires it 😉
to give you some idea about the Revenue lost this is what one of the distributor says Girish Johar Girish Johar @girishjohar 5h
5cr loss total to both films from sat eve till mon afternoon cinema closure !!
It is a lesson for many who just dont anticipate things. From now on they can take insurance cover for unforeseen events.
They can sue god OMG style if insurance companies wont accept.
“Mumbai is the great city that it is, because of Balasaheb” – Lata Mangeshkar
By Subhash K. Jha, Nov 19, 2012 – 10:54 IST
The Nightingale Lata Mangeshkar is profoundly shocked by the death of Bal Thackeray. Says the concerned songstress, “I will tell you something very honestly. Balasaheb Thackeray tthey toh Maharashtra ttha. Woh nahin toh kuch nahin hai. No one can equal what he has done for Maharashtra. We needed him to be with us for many more years. Look at the kind of turn-out his illness invited at his home Matoshree! He had a knack for forging enduring relations with people. It’s indeed a very rare gift he had. And his gift of oration! Oh, My God! Bahut kamaal ke insaan tthey.”
Says Lataji fondly, “When I heard he was unwell, I went to meet him on November 4. He told me on the phone, ‘Tum aao mujhse milne.’ I went the very same day. When I reached Matoshree no one stopped me from going straight to where he was resting. When he saw me he said, ‘Arrey zindagi bhar main alag-alag shehron mein ghumta raha hoon, logon se milta raha…ab mujhe bistar mein pada achcha nahin lag raha.'(I don’t like to be bed-ridden). I told him to eat something with the familiarity and affection that one exercises only on those very close. He said he wasn’t hungry. I insisted. Then he agreed to have soup which was brought for him. He had very little of it. He complained of a bad throat. I suggested a mixture of water and honey. Before I left I put my head on his feet as I usually do. He showered me with blessings.”
Lataji was close not just to the patriarch of the Thackeray family but the entire clan. “Raj and his wife, Uddhavji and wife and their son Aditya are all close to me. Aditya writes good poetry in English. He has published a book of poems and also done a music album. Raj sings and also plays the violin. His father was a music director. Mohd Rafi Saab had sung a Marathi song for Raj’s father. That song was a big success.”
Recalling her long association with the Shiv Sena Supremo, Lataji says, “He gave me a lot of love and respect. I knew him for a good 25 years and we were very close. I knew him from the time when he didn’t live at Matoshree. Pataa nahin kyon, Balasaheb mujhe shuroo se achche lagte tthey (I liked him right from the start).We were both very busy those days. But he would call me up regularly to ask me what I was doing. Once when I fell ill he called every single day to ask about my health, advising me affectionately on my medicines and my diet.”
Lataji can’t thank Balasaheb enough for keeping her out of politics. “He knew I am apolitical. He never discussed politics or politicians with me. He never involved me in anything political. He could’ve asked me to join the Shiv Sena and I would have not have refused him. But he knew I am not comfortable with politics. So he graciously kept me out of it. Perhaps being an artiste himself he understood the sensitivities of another artiste. Our conversations were always about the world in general. He talked to me like any member of my family and felt the same sense of protectiveness towards me and my family that my brother Hridaynath does. When I went to his house we talked about our families and friends and yes, food. One of his most enthusiastic questions to me during every visit at Matoshree was, ‘Tum kya khaogi?…Tum kaun si chai peeoogi.”
Lataji’s fondest meeting with Bala Saheb was the one years ago when he called her up and asked her to check out the auditorium that the Shiv Sena had built in her father’s memory.
Recalling that incident with a chuckle Lataji says, “Bala Saheb called and said, ‘Tere Pitajee ke naam se maine hall banaya hai. Tum aao aur bataao kaisa lagaa’. The auditorium named the Pandit Dinanath Mangeshkar hall is in Khar. I had gifted Balasaheb a painting done by my father. That is seen hanging in the front foyer of the auditorium. When I saw this, I was deeply moved.”
Sighs Lataji, “Bala Saheb had a long way to go. He had just published a new Marathi book which is selling exceedingly well. He had a very sharp mind and a terrific sense of humour. He could converse on any topic under the sun. During my most recent visit to Matoshree, Balasaheb ordered me to visit him every day. I wasn’t able to fulfill his wish. But I was going to meet him as soon as the crowds in front of his house thinned out. Maharashtra had come to a standstill because everyone was worried. People all over Maharashtra were holding yagyas and prayer meetings for his recovery. There were thousands of worried people standing under Matoshree. Aisi zindagi bahot kam logon ko milti hai. I prayed for him to recover again. My prayers are with his family.”
hahaha … sorry Satyam…copied pasted from my facebook post lolol. BUT, I must say that the edited version pretty much covers my reaction to Thackarey “Saheb” . Thanks for making it concise and censored 😉
I’m confused at the disparity between what Lata/Amitabh etc etc etc are all saying abut this guy, and what Q and others have written detaling what kinda thug/terrorist/racist he was. Are the celebrities really condoning/endorsing that? Or ignoring it because of their personal relationship with him? Or doing this for show/political reasons?
And forget celebrities, why is the state giving him so much honour?
It’s all rather hard to comprehend (not that I’ve done much research other than reading a few of the links posted here.
Sometimes I wonder why the people who stood up for independence, going to jails etc. are so muted out nowadays. The freedom for which we struggled is slowly slipping away.
The celebrities unlike others have the privilege of relocating elsewhere than simply submitting themselves to humiliations. They may lose money wise but it is a small price to pay to say what one wants to say and to live a more free life.
Another set of figures that differs from BOI and Taran:
SOS, JTHJ Collections Dip As Bandh Takes A Toll
by Box Office India (November 19, 2012)
It was a gloomy weekend for the new releases, which were impacted by the bandh in Maharashtra and closure of cinema halls in other parts of the country like the Nizam territory. Collections thus dropped for both Diwali releases – Son of Sardaar (SOS) and Jab Tak Hai Jaan (JTHJ) – which had opened to packed houses on Tuesday last week. Also, since the Mumbai territory brings in a large part of a film’s collections, the bandh, distributors here especially mourned the loss of business.
In Mumbai, Rajesh Thadani of Multimedia Combines says, “The business of both films was affected in Mumbai due to the sensitive situation here. While the pan-India collections of JTHJ were Rs 68 crore, those of SOS were Rs 53 crore. And owing to the bandh in Mumbai, JTHJ garnered Rs 23-24 crore while collections of SOS were around Rs 17 crore.”
G D Mehta of Bobby Arts International explains, “In the Delhi-UP circuit, the six-day collections of JTHJ were Rs 17 crore and those of SOS Rs 12-13 crore. Wave Cinemas were shut here and the collections of both films were badly affected. Today too, the response is weak.”
According to Surendra Saluja of Lakshya Movies, “The collections of SOS and JTHJ are almost neck-to-neck in East Punjab, at Rs 6.2 crore and Rs 6 crore respectively.
However, things were positive in West Bengal, where Sunit Singh of Aum Moviez says, “JTHJ continued to rule and collections here were about 75 per cent while those of SOS were 30 per cent. Today, there is a slight drop in collections.”
In Rajasthan, SOS has an edge over JTHJ. Gaurav Gaur of O’Real Imaginations says both films performed well over the weekend. SOS earned Rs 5.35 crore while JTHJ garnered Rs 4.25 crore. Today too SOS is doing well.”
In Orissa, Jeetu Khandelwal of Movie Pioneers concludes, “JTHJ is being appreciated by youngsters. The film has earned Rs 50 lakh. SOS hasn’t had an impact and has earned Rs 35 lakh
DK@bollywoodajjtak
Its a ridiculous reporting in the media that the #JTHJ and #SOS lost 12-14C due to closure of cinemas in Maharashtra i.e at Mumbai Curcit
DK@bollywoodajjtak
Around 500 screen got affected because of close. #JTJH lost around 2.5C Sunday & 75L Sat evening.#SOS lost around 1.75C Sun & 50 Lakh on Sat
DK@bollywoodajjtak
Cumulatively the losses for both the film #JTHJ & #SOS would be around 5.50-6C max.
LOL 12-14Cr!!!
Maybe on a film that was being super patrianised and loved. Not this deal.
And the reality is if the films are being loved, some of this should be made up when the cinemas open again! The proof should be in the pudding!
This is really different to when Fanaa was exempt from a region. Here the film has released and had few days of collections. The rest of the collections are down to WOM, and that is pretty average at best.
Even if you have a blank cheque and add the 12-14crore, no amount of adding is going to get it past big numbers. Reality is, SRK has had 3 big films in Ra.One, Don2 and now JTHJ and all are going to fold well well short of Dabanng, Bodyguard, ETT and 3 Idiots.
While I understand salman khan movies aren’t great but they tend to be enjoyable. I’m all for films which people class as mindless as long as I enjoy the movie whilst watching it but jthj is not only mindless but is torturous yet no one will call it mindless cos its a yash Chopra/ shahrukh movie. This movie is dreadful and forget logic or the loopholes it didn’t deliver on the basic need to entertain. None of the scenes made u feel love, emotion or even make you laugh. The movie can only be seen if you want to sit there to admire how beautiful katrina looks.
There’s nothing else to it.
Another point about overseas – a lot of people mention about srk power in overseas. I’m from uk – born n bred here and all three khans are equally popular and anyone who knows bollywood knows all the khans. The only reason that I can see that srk movies do better here is cos people abroad love romantic glossy movies to watch with families and also srk movies show in more cinemas than the others. I live in a small town in northern England and shahrukhs movies are always on at the local cinema but to watch salman khans movie I have to go to the nearest city. Not sure how much of an effect this has but I thort I’d put it out there.
Lastly I just feel it seems easy n a hobby to bash Salmans movie but when it comes to srks movie we can criticise them but we can’ t call them mindless or crap. Ra-one was bad and jthj was worse. I don’t care of RA-one tried to introduce something new – I want to go to the cinema and watch a good story or at the very least be entertained not be bored even if its using latest or new technology.
You make a number of valid points. At the same time it’s not entirely fair to say that all three actors are equally popular but that one is just getting bigger numbers because of the genre. Stars are associated with certain genres. You can’t separate the two. Moreover not every star would be equally successful in every genre. There are reasons why certain stars work well in certain genres and not in others. So credit can’t be taken away from SRK on this count.
On the rest I agree completely that certain genres are criticized more than others because they’re seen as more lowbrow. I have always talked about this. At the same time and while one can criticize both kinds of genres (romantic and say the Akshay Kumar comedy or something like Ready and BG) on grounds of meaning and depth the same is often not true on purely aesthetic grounds. In other words the average Akshay comedy also employs standards that are extremely crude in this sense. Now this isn’t true for an ETT or especially a Dabanng but it is so for many quintessential Salman films. This doesn’t mean that the Yashraj films are all fine examples of film grammar, just that at that basic level they’re often better. Having said that most people don’t have that attitude of condescension for this reason. Rather it’s because they look down on certain genres. Aamir isn’t a part of this discussion anyway because no one thinks of him as being connected with anything but superior entertainment for the most part. He’s often working with cutting edge commercial directors. No one would criticize those efforts. But yes I absolutely agree that a lot of what happens in a number of SRK romances is very crude at a variety of levels.
@ milliondollar–u say u live in the uk but deal in ‘million dollars’ & not pounds—how come lol
” The movie can only be seen if you want to sit there to admire how beautiful katrina looks”–thanx for reminding me–I forgot to look @ katrina during the movie—who are your favorite actors..
@jayshah
“Reality is, SRK has had 3 big films in Ra.One, Don2 and now JTHJ and all are going to fold well well short of Dabanng, Bodyguard, ETT and 3 Idiots”–thanx for that telling statement
In a career of more than two decades–this has happened for 2-3 years towards the end of that duration–tells us something about the comparative career graphs of these two..
Also the srk ‘failures’ each have grossed atleast 100crores each–just for the context
I mean–it’s uncanny how it becomes so important for some to repeat and underline every day (more so to themselves) that srk is on a decline–well, my dear friend–that’s a known fact –since ra1– what’s new in that!-but this repeated insistence tells something about this ‘anxiety’ to prove it to oneself–as if in the heart of their own hearts, they are not convinced it is happening haha–I mean-nearly fifteen years, they waited to see that happen-cant believe it themselves–what fun!
@ Satyam –why are u still hesitant about posting overseas numbers–it’s old hat to deny their importance not ‘oldhat’ to quote them..
This is NOT the same as hollywoods ‘east Asian’ successes bcos—
a) the scales of release are much much different between Hollywood and Bollywood releases in their ‘overseas’ context
b) unlike Hollywood–most Bollywood releases happen simultaneous to domestic and not staggered
c) unlike Hollywood–where these ‘overseas’ markets may not be commensurate because the other currency may infact be ‘weaker’ than the dollar, in the Bollywood context, it is the other way round
Pounds and dollars are MORE telling to the overall tally than even rupees
This is NOT to undermine the value of domestic grosses which are more important
But the way u are trying to ‘lure’ the gullibles here and to close their eyes to all overseas collections
Whilst u and most here watch movies themselves in dollars/pounds is like treating these readers like kids and thinking u will get away with it
As I said before– we shouldn’t have to wait for the abhishrek -kjo-yrf film ( if abhishrek ever gets one and kjo/yrf get a bout of indiscretion in casting him) OT get such updates
And plz don’t repeat that overseas collections won’t make much difference to JTHJ with respect to dabang/ETT/ 3I
That’s old hat and don’t repeat the same ad nauseum
Does it mean anything not equating to 3i, ETT, dabang need not even be considered
Am in the middle of some work–will check later –can we have the comparative overseas collections of JTHJ/SOS just as a start btw
But alex you’re playing loose with the facts. SRK wasn’t the top star the moment he stepped into the industry. And yeah check out his hit to flop ratio for the 90s. It will be eye-opening for you! a serious debate needs to be backed up with serious points and which ultimately means facts. I have listed all these movies many times before and you’ve seen the lists. and by the way the corrections begin with your ‘more than two decades’ claim. Actually he’s been in the industry for exactly two decades. Again one can have a debate on his career in all sorts of ways but it can’t begin by inventing facts. You need a firmer grasp on the history than you’re displaying. And just for the record I can pretty much recite from memory SRK’s successes and failures so I know what I’m talking about! Along the same lines when some of us have been counting how his films have performed over the last 8 years and you choose to keep saying ‘it’s just the last 2-3 years’ (incidentally something his supporters using to say at every point!) you’re either not reading or once again inventing things.
Ha Ann -if Satyam gets his way -he will try to scoop out srks whole career from am history annals just like an eyeball from the socket !
But these attempts meet success only on blogs (& after a peg or 2!!)
Will continue this later
Just grappling with some work deadline!!
Ps arsh–good point about ‘heer’–‘union’ & ‘separation’ rolled into one
Oh Heck-lost another minute in this !!!
political thriller, hollywood style:
i finally caught argo and really liked it. despite knowing how it ends, it still kept me on the edge of my seat. of course some of the events and characters have been modified/fictionalized for the purposes of dramatic license, but i think they still managed to keep the basic premise and sensibility intact. it follows a very old-school format – a reluctant tortured hero-figure, a bold plan that’s initially considered in-executable, hurdles crossed to get it going, skepticism on part of the rescuees, nail-biting sequences with the sense of real danger lurking and finally victory snatched from the jaws of defeat at the last moment. it is peppered with all the traditional ingredients too – drama, suspense, hero and villain figures and hollywood, baby. but i still found some of the choices it made surprising, and in a good way. though the actual material is serious, this is not a ‘look at me, i am so serious’ movie. affleck’s previous two films are much darker in that sense. so despite being based on actual political events involving an international diplomatic crisis, this film still plays out as a thoroughly entertaining suspense drama/thriller. the hollywood sequences are almost goofy in a self-parody kind of way. but whenever the action shifts to iran, there is a sense of claustrophobia and fear, you can feel how suffocating it must be to live in such a place in that moment in history (some things haven’t changed, i guess). but the biggest surprise for me was the humor. i cannot believe how darkly and not-so-darkly funny it managed to be, there were witty one-liners galore and you get the feeling their sense of humor is the only thing these characters manage to hold on to their sanity with, in such dire circumstances. i felt there were just a couple of parts where the action lagged a little bit once he reaches the embassy but never for long. and the pace sure as hell picked up towards the end.
this is also a film bursting with talented actors in each frame. they managed to get excellent players for the all the main as well as 2-bit parts – john goodman, alan arkin, bryan cranston, victor garber are just a few of them. i thought ben affleck also fit in very well here, he was effective in what is essentially a nondescript everyman behind-the-scenes type of leading man. it does not require any great acting calisthenics but he is very subtly effective here. this is also his most fully realized film as a director and he is certainly following a clooney type career trajectory (clooney is also a co-producer here)
it is one of those rare movies that manages to combine first-rate entertainment with gritty realism in a deliciously satisfying package, and this is ultimately a very satisfying film because all is well in the end.
This is why I call a cute but no-nonsense unbiased take
That manages to cover the important aspects, stopping to pat/rap where needed
Also good point On the clooney influence –overall on afflecks recent career upturn as a ‘motivational element’ and also confirmed by clooneys actual presence as the co producer
More than these films–afflecks lane-changing career deal remains quite interesting…all the best to affleck
Thanks for the fantastic review and the heads-up Antya (would love to have a proper piece from you on any film). Sadly this one was not shown by any theatre at my place.
I especially loved this line from your piece- ” but i still found some of the choices it made surprising, and in a good way. though the actual material is serious, this is not a ‘look at me, i am so serious’ movie”- I also believe The Town was one of the best genre-films in recent times.
Also u might be interested in reading this. I don’t agree with everything here but this is a very interesting piece from Rangan on a important subject-
“There’s a special kind of heaven to be found in old things given the smallest of twists and made to seem new again.
If you’ve been following the Oscar prognosticators, you know that Ben Affleck’s Argo is a front-runner for Best Picture – at least in these pre-Lincoln, pre-Life of Pi days. This delights me not because Argo is some kind of “great movie” – in the sense of an exemplar of motion-picture art that will show post-apocalyptic civilisations what Hollywood was capable of – but simply because it’s a supremely well-executed genre movie. There’s a special kind of heaven to be found in the comfort of clichés that are presented with verve and vision – it’s only when clichés come to us lazily and apologetically that we recoil from them – and Argo is filled with reinvigorated been-there-done-that scenarios. It’s time someone recognised that edifices reassembled from Lego blocks are as worthy as those built brick by brick, and that it may actually take more skill to manipulate a large audience while respecting their patience and intelligence than to make a “great movie” that will make it to the top-ten lists of a handful of critics.
Of course, cinema as art has its place, but the trouble, often, is that the films made with towering ambition – like Paul Thomas Anderson’s The Master – end up with lots of rave reviews and not a lot of box office. These films, inevitably, are almost always one-offs. While this distinctiveness, the fact that an Anderson film is like no other filmmaker’s, is what makes these films valuable in a historical context, genre films are more valuable in the cultural context – because they reach a larger audience, and as success breeds clones (in Hollywood as elsewhere), a quality, mid-budget genre hit like Argo could, strangely, end up influencing movie-making and movie-going habits more than an idiosyncratic work like The Master (which has still done reasonably well in North America, considering its style and subject matter). More studios will finance these kinds of films. More big stars will be drawn to them. More audiences will line up for them.”
thanks for the kind words guys.
thanks for pointing out rangan’s piece saurabh, hadn’t read that. i know exactly what he means – the comfort of cliches, ha. cliches can be great when done well, something our film-makers don’t understand. incidentally, i still have to catch the master.
the town was a well-made film but i felt it had a been there done that feel to it, coen brothers practically made their career out of that genre and did it a lot better. found gone baby gone a better film and casey was great in it. argo is definitely affleck’s best film, you should catch it on dvd when it becomes available.
I watched THE MASTER in the first week itself – I was the only one int he theater!! Loved it – the take-away is of course the searing performances of Phoenix and Seymour-Hoffman —
I was quite sore The Master didn’t get a release at my end; my only hope is to hold out for Oscar season (if the film gets an award it will likely show up in Bombay)…
hadn’t seen this. i try to avoid reviews until i watch the film, but this is so well-written and comprehensive. psh is one of the best actors working today and there is jp too. i’ll catch the film on dvd/netflix probably.
“coen brothers practically made their career out of that genre and did it a lot better.”-
Would disagree a bit here Antya. The thing is unlike The Town, Coen Bros’ films are never ‘straight-genre’ efforts (whether it is Raising Arizona or Ladykillers or Fargo), what they do exceedingly well is that they take a genre and twist it on its head (the only exception which comes to my mind is their True Grit remake which I did not particularly like though I can never be too harsh on a Damon film. I thought the 3:10 To Yuma was a better remake than this though and of course No Country was awesome but then again this wasn’t a true Western so my point stands)
And of course Coens have made much better films than The Town but IMO Town is how u make a well executed genre-film.
Son Of Sardaar has collected around 4.25 crore nett as per early estimates on Monday. The business in the Maharashtra are was still hit on Monday due to the death of Balasaheb Thackeray and business should slowly be back to normal today in Maharashtra.
The film held up strongly in mass markets like Bihar, CI and Rajasthan and is set for a strong run in these markets. The business on Tuesday should hold well as compared to Monday as Maharashtra should record better collections.
The seven day business for the film is 62 crore nett which is slightly better than what Ajay Devgn’s last film Bol Bachchan collected.
Jab Tak hai Jaan has collected around 4.25 crore nett as per early estimates on Monday. The business in the Maharashtra are was still hit on Monday due to the death of Balasaheb Thackeray and business should slowly be back to normal today in Maharashtra.
The film held up better in areas dominated by premium multiplexes while mass belts recorded low collections. The business on Tuesday should hold well as compared to Monday as Maharashtra should record better collections.
The seven day business for the film is 78 crore nett. Ra.One collected 91 crore nett approx in seven days and Don 2 collected 71 crore nett approx in seven days.
“The seven day business for the film is 78 crore nett. Ra.One collected 91 crore nett approx in seven days and Don 2 collected 71 crore nett approx in seven days.”
Thus the film should wrap around 100-110 ?
In an age when Barfi Makes 100, this is quite rude shock, that to when releasing on a non diwali and non holiday period.
Satyam– the overseas figures need a mention at least once a week of not the daily/ hourly updates on the domestic front–isn’t that reasonable ?
Btw what is the comparison cumulative of jthj v SOS till now–just curious now …
Wow anya–a brilliant review
That’s what happens when u play the central heroine character in one of my spoofs–it improves the mental (besides physical) faculties–am proud of u gal
A concise and summarising succinct take
Obviously deserving of a separate thread !
Though knowing Satyam (rishi of soty) there may be issues with that 😉
So, the Monday totals of both movies are practically on the same level. It’s quite obvious that SOS is trending better. The 7 days total of SOS is higher than Bol Bachan’s. It had considerably less screens than JTHJ and the latter had some kind of monopoly in some areas where SOS could have been very strong. But SOS is holding its own quite well.
It should be looked upon as a triumph for Devgan. It’s also quite obvious that SRK is in decline. 10 years back, a similar clash would have had completely different results.
“Thus i feel Chennai Express would be the deciding factor. Where the genre and superstar cometogether in masala.”-
Look how Masala has come back to haunt SRK. He has been the flag-bearer of this movement to decimate the masala history and now when his career has hit a prolonged rough patch, he has now gone to Rohit Shetty to bail him out. Strange things happen! (btw I am waiting for the comments of those SRK fans who were making fun of Shetty, ABhishek and BB)
lamhe was released with phool or kaante and dil se with pyar to hona hi tha and devgan was the best thing in kaal even though not being in lead
aside they tried level best to milk the death of chopra even had the goodwill of much hyped ett to clim best thetre with the music of rahman and lyrics of gulzar but frankly devgan is bigger and much massy actor in india currently
overses and indin distributors are never same anyways…film runnning on overses has hardly had nything to do with indian distributors and exhibitors and its always indian market which decides the norm
In mumbai, the best single screens were booked for JTHJ and that became counter productive because of the latest developments.
SRK might have become a better actor in his latest flick, but now the stage is set for someone who can just entertain and amuse by antics rather than acting.
SRK has this overseas thing and that will see him through.
Ajay Devgn’s gamble paid off and now no star will be able to gobble up all the screens with impunity except perhaps Salman Khan.
The trade pundits are forced to combine the totals of 2 films instead of one to show everything is happening nicely. Pathetic!
Overseas is taken for calculating profit and loss account but not for hit status.For example,if JTHN made below 10 crores and made 50 crores overseas, will it be called hit? Strictly for income tax purpose.
As JTHN fared quite well in India too, the hit status will be accorded to it irrespective of its overseas performance and in the final reckoning may make it superhit taking into account its overall earnings. I would like to know any case offilm doing badly in India but doing extremely well overseas.
– he has a unique voice
– but i cant read his comments, he types from IPAD, and my eyes are not habituated to read poorly structured and with worst space utilisation (its not his fault but his ipad’s fault or mobiles fault)
thus, if i want to read them, i need better concentration and more time.
– lastly, i dont understand his spoofs about characters of SS, being some heroine in some film, etc, its funny for some, but after a while, they put me off reading them.
– but he’s happy go lucky chap… and i like it how he keeps follwing and commenting even while on the move..
– but thus i cant even debate with him, as to debate would mean to read his comments and as explained above, requires time to read and understand.
Thanx Rooney–u have some valid points & u r a gentleman…
Anyhow good u don’t understand my spoofs etc–they are not for u actually –u may get ‘spoilt’
Anyhow Keep up the good work …I can read your comments and they are mostly sensible
Ha Rooney
Btw my ‘avatars’ are not for your ‘ liking’ anyways –don’t care if they sound ‘robotic’ or ‘cryptic’ 🙂
Believe me–u are a ‘gentleman’ –u seem to be uncomfortable with being one ha
Sanjana: “I would like to know any case offilm doing badly in India but doing extremely well overseas.”
Umrao Jaan — was pretty much a washout in India, but did quite well overseas, especially the U.S. I can’t give you the specific figures now, but I do remember this. Similarly Guzaarish, too, I think did much better overseas than in India (though I am less sure of this). Maybe Kites? But I can’t remember that one very well. There were also a number of medium-budget films before 2010 that did below average business in India, but, because of their average or better than average collections overseas, could become profitable, even if not huge hits.
Sm–must say u are impressive in your new improved version
Good stuff overall
As I said u seem to have come a long way from being a Salman obsessed fangirl to a proper student of cinema
Keep it up and do write more ..
Have already said ad nauseum that a domestic flop can’t be salvage by an overseas hit–if one reads it
Also hav nothing against SOS which seems to be doing well domestic market.
But in the case of jthj & other srk/ yrf releases for eg–te jerseys number are too significant to be not factored in…
As for te comparison with SOS, in terms of overseas there is no comparison–
The difference is too stark
Had hoped Satyam puts those up himself but obviously that amounts to dilute his own points so won’t happen 🙂
If we go to Bollywood Hungama site, daily we can see updated overseas collections. It is 4 to one. For J it is predictable, while for SOS it is ok as it was purely a desi movie. Even in India J is ahead in terms of pure numbers. But the thing is that its run is being checked quite effectively by a film which everyone dismissed as a worthless caper.
Thanx sanjana–can u post those latest overseas numbers here plz
Ps: ‘worthless capers’ have no less chances of doing well -if not more
Salman, Akshay now Ajay have resurrected their careers fon these ‘worthless capers’–so no sane person underestimated their box office pull– atleast I didn’t feel SOS will bomb or something … If u read earlier
My uncle died in an accident. Because of Soniya Gandhi’s politics.
My fritz is not working. Again because Raw and Gandhi family.
First and Second world wars happened because of Gandhi family.
Stampedes in temples are also happening due to them.
History has 2 sides.
It is Nehru’s vision that brought about industialisation and modernity.
Indira Gandhi nationalised banks and thats why our nationalised banks are not sinking like they do in the capitalist countries.
Indira Gandhi helped Bangladesh in its hour of need and India is still helping them by giving shelter to bangladeshis. Pokhran happened in her time.Banglasdeshis to India are like what Mexicans are to USA.
LTTE and Bhindranwale. When you help someone, you dont expect them to turn against you.
JP brought mutiny and one cant keep quiet when democracy is derailed brazenly.
Rajiv Gandhi went one step further and computerised India inspite of left protest about unemployment.
Now every party is opposing FDI. BJP which had no problems with FDI suddenly turned against it because it will fetch votes. BJP never allowed parliament to function properly thus blocking important bills.
Every leader makes errors of judgment if their tenure is long enough.
You are same way justifying the Evils afflecting India( courtesy Congress and its leaders) as shiv sainks justifying Bal T.. You are going off tangent 🙂
and from where BJP comes???? They are all same but congress is worse.
I just refuted your logic of simplyfying problems and you are talking of uncle accident and fridge not working …
anyway its no use taking it further as you may say now my net is not working due to …. 🙂
Even I dont endorse the evils of congress party. But blaming it for all the evils of a big country with diverse cultures is not justified. For example, states reorganisation. Nehru opposed it but has to given when PS died fasting. States reorganisation is slowly leading to balkanisation of India. If India had one language, one religion as is in USA, it would have been easier to bring in presidential system.
Just for knowledge, India Cant have presidential system as that shall be unconstitutional. As the current system is Basic Structure and that cant be altered or amended.
Everything is unconsititutional unless its amended in consititution.. India adopted west minister model from British and for presedential form of govt. we have to amend/alter it. Even ventkatcahlliah committe was set up for reasassing the consititution under vajpayee led govt.
In india its not majority but arthmetic and caste combinations that win the elections, so present day govt or any govt is just 30% + vote share is majority govt, which technically it isn’t. we have adopted this system and have to bear with this also.
India right now is dysfunctional Democracy, evolving as time goes by.
Why would you want a presidential system, sanjana?
Trust me, it will become as dysfunctional as the present system, because finally it is the people who make a system work.
When it is given that a party will not support the progressive uplifting measures of another party because then they will be sidelined, they will do everything to sabotage malign, the other.
Be it a president leading the country belonging to a certain political party or a prime minister belonging to a certain political party.
Giving India a Presidential system is like changing Bombay to Mumbai, Kolkutta from Calcutta etc etc
And I must add, the Americanization of India will be complete.
Wow Oldgold — what an impressive n ‘deep’ comment
Don’t think change in the top structure will matter much in India
It will just change who gets the right to indulge in corruption and power games and create mayhem
Btw have never cared for the new names of Calcutta, madras and Bombay
To add–an overseas showing doesn’t change the fact for srk..
This proves what we already know about his declining clout ( though that also doesn’t mean that opportunists have a field day denying or wiping the skate of hi last achievements!)
As for jthj-have seen some who hated such films liking it
For its conventional audiences, it’s numerous flaws and the creditable ‘abstractness’ is proving a big much ESP against the massy ‘po po’ type stuff in SOS
Anyhow back to work … & more sleep deprivation lol
Don’t worry Rajen, Alex will be around soon to explain how he eats exclusively at Michelin-starred restaurants. 😉 How can you expect a man, who assists auteurs with their work and is constantly surrounded by an entourage of Eastern European models, to eat at a pedestrain fast food outlet? He’s best friends with Heston Blumenthal and Fergus Henderson, and advises them on their menus, didn’t you know? 😛
I liked the movie Saurabh but I did feel it was a trying a little too-hard to be a neo-TAXI DRIVE. And Carey Mulligan’s dialogue delivery as though she were a coquettish-virgin just put me off.
The best part of the movie was it BGM and OST – Cliff Martinez..Terrific ’80s feel to it..
have to agree with an here. i liked drive but don’t love it like people here and on other forums seem to. as someone who likes gosling a lot, i also think he needs to switch gears a little too, his performances are becoming repetitive. and mulligan was totally miscast here.
Not a single person in Trade/Media is honest enough to say that JTHJ collections on monday are poor. This will just about do 100 cr and the likes of Nahata have already declared it a ‘Sooper Blockuster’. Taran was tweeting before the release that he thinks this will do 200 cr while BOI in the past have used words like ‘crash’ and ‘rejected’ for those films that have put similar numbers on Monday and most of them were smaller films compared to JTHJ .
yes true the tone now is ‘it should do 100 crores’! Meanwhile Nahata responded to someone saying ‘neither film has done 100 crores yet’. You don’t get the same confidence and hype that you normally get from these guys. Even when a film looks likely to tank they go crazy over it in the initial period if the numbers are really big.
also think it very likely now that this film will do worse than RNBDJ. The latter didn’t open huge, just well enough, but it trended rather well. It more or less doubled it’s week 1 number, something that hasn’t happened with too many films at any level over the last half decade or so. It’s safe to say that JTHJ is not going to get to 150-160 crores which is what it would need to do as well as RNBDJ. And on that note the latter had the Ghajini competition a couple of weeks after release as well. It’s true that here there was SOS as well but as I’ve been saying there’s less of an overlap here (multiplexes versus single/double screens) and even conceding the point that ‘damage’ is already written into the numbers from the very beginning. the film doesn’t start losing more after a week! the question really now is whether it can do a Don2 (similar paradigm) and therefore get into the realm of respectability or if it goes the Ra One way and adds so little beyond the first week that it’s more or less a tank.
And by the way this is where the media/trade continue to be soft on SRK. They’ve been rather quiet about this. They know what’s going on. When BOI, Taran et all don’t celebrate the film’s performance at any point you know something’s up.
“Alex will be around soon to explain how he eats exclusively at Michelin-starred restaurants”
Haha Amy — haven’t mentioned that ever
But hold on–Amy–u seem to be getting more n more ‘obsessed’ with me
I hope u don’t see me in your ‘dreams’ as well, Amy
Now THIS is called casting
What an apt anushka casting Amy is proving 🙂
Think one may /may not have liked JTHJ but there not much to argue about its box office performance till now
Also it has necessitated some official changes
Certain things have become clear now which were suspected, emphasised earlier for an year or so
But here come the final revised ranking ( as of now)
Obviously that’s now I see it now and nobody’s forced to agree !
1) Salman khan
2) Aamir khan
3 ) SRK & Hritik Roshan
Now this slot can be under dispute/discussion.
Am being a bit ‘lenient’ with SRK given his ‘history’s & ‘credential’ though with his upcoming films-his chances of going up are doubtful
The reason for hritik being where he is –is that he does fewer films-doesn’t fire always but when he does–he can out fire all else in the right genre /film !
There are various reasons of taggin them together and above 5,6
Including appeal, ‘coding’ etc
5) Akshay Kumar
Some may want to put his in the slot 3 but I have certain ‘issues, with that ( atleast as of now)
6) Ajay devgun
He deserves this ascent and ‘upgradation’
The fact that after that up gradation, he still finds himself at 5) speaks volumes of his basal level
But overall–well done for reaching this far
7) Ranbir kapoor
Poised to take Aamirs place soon in terms of positioning
8) Saif Ali khan
Hritik & Ranbir
Together with hritik, ranbir seems poised to ‘take over’ after the khans!
Though to give credit to the khans, this ‘taking over’ doesn’t seem to be happening as soon as the would expect
The rest are bits n bobs –maybe missing someone–if so that’s probably deliberate ….
CUMULATIVE charts –lead actor (1990 onwards till date)
The ‘1990 onwards’ isn’t hypothetical but to delineate a segment of the post. Bachchan era –given the sheer dominance of bachchan at his peak–it’s important not to tag this together
1) SRK
2) Aamir khan
The ‘gap’ between 1) & 2) is lesser now than it used to be earlier but not zero (yet!)
3) Salman khan
The gap between 1/2 from 3) is not as minimal as it would NOW
though is may diminish in the next couple of years
4) hritik Roshan
5) akshay Kumar
The rest were simply not consistent/significant enough to make this rating in a cumulative sense
In order to count the numbers, one can add the likes of Tushar kapoor, fardeen Kahn also somewhere but that would be an insult in the term ‘cumulative ranking’
Certain disclaimers –To add– the above ranking doesn’t take into account–
The transitional post bachchan phase wherein the likes of anil kapoor flourished and the likes of sunny, dutt strutted their ‘bravado’–since their box office didn’t seem to be ‘consolidated’ in any one sense apparently looking at it retrospectively except maybe anil kapoors for a phase
Also to add–
No position is permanent
All eyes now on ‘talaash’– aamir can work up/down though this one film may not change either his current or cumulative positioning given the ‘biggies’ he seems to be sitting on
Hopefully Will be watching talaash only for Aamirs performance …
Abhishek Bachchan for you does not seem to be in line even with Tushhar Kapoor and Farting Khan. And you missed the current box-office messiah Messrs. Hashmi & Sleaze…
^Who are these humans– I know not…don’t have any grey cells2 spare for them
Anyhow -unrelated -ignored this earlier
-when euro club bangers meets a certain emotional funk-call this an endorphin mix–nothing out of the blue-though realise that sia is a better vocalist than gave her credit 4-
Enjoy folks-also some Iceland visuals
A shot in the dark
A past, lost in space
Where do I start
The past and the chase
You hunted me down
Like a wolf, a predator
I feel like deer in your lights
This is for them who thought Ajay was not the main reason for Bol Bachchan’s success 😉
Son Of Sardaar Delhi/UP v Ajay Devgn Major Grossers
Wednesday 21st November 2012 10.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar has grossed 14.60 crore nett in Delhi/UP in eight days while the business in seven days was 13.65 crore nett. Below is a comparison of first week and lifetime business of Son of Sardaar and other Ajay Devgn major grossers in Delhi/UP.
First Week
Son Of Sardaar – 13.65 crore
Bol Bachchan – 12.50 crore
Singham – 8.30 crore
Golmaal 3 – 10.20 crore
Lifetime
Son Of Sardaar – N/A
Bol Bachchan – 20.30 crore
Singham – 15.00 crore
Golmaal 3 – 18.50 crore
Son Of Sardaar should emerge Ajay Devgn’s highest grossing film in Delhi/UP despite a weak release in Delhi/UP.
the one where M takes all bond girls to school:
the reason i liked casino royale so much is probably because i am not the typical bond fan and casino royale wasn’t the typical bond movie. so it was a match made in heaven. many bond enthusiasts were disappointed with the 2006 reboot because this was a different animal, breaking away from the old-school franchise in a number of ways. quantum of solace tried to take it from there while bringing back more traditional bond elements. but the script was such a hodge-podge, it failed miserably. and then there was a lot of uncertainty around the franchise due to mgm’s financial woes, leaving fans wondering whether this was the end of the road for 007. but fortunately it wasn’t. because skyfall is definitely a return to fantastic form. this one successfully manages to combine those elements that casino royale hinted at, into an energetic fun ride. it pulls you by the collar, demanding your attention from the opening action sequence which then lyrically blends into the gorgeous opening credits (and boy, are the credits gorgeous! i am tempted to go back just to watch that part again). sam mendes brings on the classic bond, gives it a strong emotional core but manages to keep the film light on its feet without weighing it down with too much self-importance, something that the batman franchise has been guilty of. the struggle to keep the nostalgia and the tradition alive while moving forward is also reflected in the story itself. the film spends most of its time basically questioning its own half-a-century long viability, pondering the very need for old-fashioned espionage and the very existence of 007. both m and bond are accused of being out of date, old-fashioned and just plain old – clinging to things that have lost their meaning or place. from the running joke about m’s cheesy paperweight to bond preferring an old-fashioned razor to q calling 007 a mere trigger-puller to m having to defend herself and her entire mission as a bigger necessity in a world with faceless enemies, to the final sequences in an old mansion that looks like the perfect set-piece for bbc’s latest adaptation of wuthering heights (revealing the reason for the film title in one of those subtle shots that the film abounds in); where the action shifts into a home-alone type sequence, only with explosives, with bond delivering the final lethal blow to the villain in the most old-fashioned way imaginable – this movie is in a way trying to find the very bearings of bond. this misty-eyed nostalgia is laced with visual and emotional resonance in the way of bond’s old aston martin and a delightful surprise in the form of albert finney as bond’s trusty old gamekeeper.
so it’s a miracle that despite all this navel-gazing, the film also manages very well to be a high-octane entertainer that a bond film is supposed to be, and does it better than any recent bond film. a car chase, a train-top fight, a tragic shooting, a tumble over a cliff and a disappearance/possible death all happen even before the opening credits have rolled. there are many well-done action sequences and a lot of hand-to-hand combat (which is always good), the most stunning of which happens in a shanghai skyscraper excellently choreographed in a single-shot.
this rebooted franchise is also blessed with fantastic actors. ralph fiennes makes his first appearance in his franchise setup role. the girls here are not prominent figures but even with just a handful of scenes, they are given enough flesh-and-blood for them to be people and not just red-shirts. but bond doesn’t really waste too much time womanizing anyway, he has more important things to do. in any case, the real bond-girl here is m. and the film spends a lot of time exploring the mother-son dynamic that m and bond share. craig and dench rise to the occasion and their time together on screen is well-spent. it also takes us into bond’s past, quiet literally towards the end, by the way of his mansion and his childhood hiding place; easily establishing some back-story without dwelling on it too much. it’s all done very smoothly as when at one point, m coldly tells bond that orphans make the best recruits, a throwback to vesper telling bond practically the same thing in casino royale. and then there is javier bardem. his is probably the most difficult job. since he only exists within the universe of this movie, we don’t know him too well. but his story mirrors m & bond’s mommy-son story, gone horribly wrong in this case. bardem, whose previous roles are like textbooks in subtle understated acting, does a 180 and magnificently cranks it up to the max (in a good way), delivering a showy but very effective performance. bond is right that he likes to make an entrance. right from the very first scene, where he makes with the effeminate gestures, almost propositions bond with a neck-rub and a thigh-touch and plays a sadistic game involving his girlfriend, bardem owns every scene he is in.
the film is technically pitch-perfect too. from the background score to the cinematography, everything comes together wonderfully. it could have used some tighter editing, chopping off some 15-20 minutes.
personally, casino royale will remain a favorite of mine and i’ll place it a notch above this one just as a film. but as a bond film, skyfall is the best in recent memory.
Thanks for this excellent review Antya, with this one and ur equally good piece on Argo u seem to be on a roll (as I have said before I would love to read a ‘formal piece’ from u on any of these films not that these short notes are any less enjoyable…it’s just that ur pieces deserve a separate thread IMO). I have already seen this film twice in the theatre and might just watch it one more time. Absolutely loved it. On Bardem did not like him so much, i found the Casino royale guy better than him.
If you are fan of hand-to-hand combat (this incidentally is my fav genre) check out this Indonesian film which released this year – “Raid : Redemption”. It’s a landmark as far as depicting melees are concerned
And yes the film is stunningly shot just like Mendes’ Road To Perdition which too had a very moving Bg score by Thomas Newman.
Having said that (and I am yet to see Master and Argo) my fav Hwood film of this year remains The Grey followed closely by Looper, The Amazing Spiderman, Avengers and Skyfall
“the one where M takes all bond girls to school”
The apt title should be
“the one where anya takes SS girls to school”
Another ace review and like your first one, deserving a separate thread
Also good to see u making full use of the Monday /Tuesday bargain deals (?) u mentioned–but whatever the excuse–gr8 to see u ‘correcting’ your work life balance as suggested by me recently ha (thays called being credit hungry lol)
After the average reviews from many here like amy, wasn’t going to check this one but now may indeed
Bardem certainly is the best spanish & one of the best in euroPe currently
May warm up to Craig more here -the psychodynamics with M sounds interesting
Ps: it’s good that Some folks can quickly go n watch a movie as it should be!
It’s the accompanying trivia and shenanigans (in/after) a movie experience that makes one wary of the entire time spent in these exercises atleast for me nowadays
By not giving these reviews their due and even acknwledfing them, Satyam confirms my initial hypothesis of being SOTYs rishi kapoor to me-anyhow I’m also fond of Satyam (but not in the same way lol)
Only those blessed to have seen that auteuristic psychological treatise soty will know what that means 🙂
My slight ‘concern’ with skyfall and in general ‘bond reboot’ is -1
Why the need to do away with the ‘womanising’
Is bond becoming ‘impotent’ ?
Your description of the shanghai skyscraper scene makes me wanna see this straightaway
“. feel free to delete.”–is the perfect signing off in Anyas brilliant pieces
By that criteria, folks like me should be completely deleted from blogosphere haha
To add–Satyam-hope u don’t mind me (divulging) your soty connection to me
Anyhow Satyam –u are a star and u ‘understand and ‘bear’ me”e better than any ‘wife’ I may ever have lol–Thanx Satyam
Yash Chopra’s swansong Jab Tak Hai Jaan will go down in Bollywood history as only the second time SRK gets to kiss his heroine after Maya Memsaab, which was released almost two decades ago. The star, who has come whisper close since, but never quite gone the whole hog with his heroines, gets smooched by Katrina Kaif. And nary a spark flies. It’s abrupt, hurried and awkward. More a lip-brush than a liplock. That, incidentally, is just one of the many problems with this “epic” love story.
SRK, who has consistently been supported by a rather fine give ’n take routine with his heroines, whether it is Madhuri, Juhi, Kajol, Rani, Kareena, or even Anushka, has no communication with the cold, bland, expressionless wonder that is Katrina. Nothing moves on her face. All she offers in the name of acting are moist eyes, fluttering eyelashes and plumped lips.
Although frenzied to begin with, it’s the other woman, Anushka, who sounds more convincing when she tells SRK that she has fallen “totally, madly, deeply” in love with him. In between lies the biggest problem of all: a love story that is set in the 2000s but is way too old-fashioned for comfort and just riddled with absurd twists brought on by ridiculous compulsions and sacrifices of its central characters. With a little help from God and retrograde amnesia. Unfulfilled love, a la Love In The Time Of Cholera, is all well and good, but the reasons for separation are more laughable than heart-rending. It’s needlessly stretched with a few bright moments but is largely inert.
SRK looks good with the stubble, particularly against the backdrop of the rugged Ladakh landscape and he can still say “pyaar ho gaya hai, uska kya karoon” like no one else, but that easy charm of yore is getting more and more rehearsed. Full of references to many of Yash Chopra’s own films—be it Dil To Paagal Hai or Veer Zaara, JTHJ struggles hard to find its own
two feet to stand on.
Uncle utkal –nice to see u back
While I do agree with some points about katrina–I feel even YOU haven’t read it totally correctly & entirely
The ‘appeal’ of katrina here is different from anushka and rightly so…
Besides the obvious perks of getting katrina to give u a (facial) shave–
The ‘cold bland’ bit has its own merits sometimes though I do get your eagerness to get a ‘hyper/hot’ deal bordering on nymphomaniac behaviour or even the ‘innocent coquettishness’ mastered by ex-yrf heroines like sridevi..
I don’t mean ‘hard to get’ by that ‘coldness’ but a certain ‘detachment’ and ‘other worldliness’
As for the ‘lip brush’, utkal uncle, I think u are expecting ‘deep throat’ stuff here 🙂
For obvious reasons, that can’t be ‘accommodated’ with prudish/ family audiences
Anyhow –a ‘lipbrush’ can have its own charm (as evidenced during the spoofs–I’m told by the heroines & the director)
Btw utkal uncle : don’t let this deter u– plz comment more -I ‘learn’ from u & love your posts
“it’s the other woman, Anushka, who sounds more convincing when she tells SRK that she has fallen “totally, madly, deeply” in love with him. ” yeah yeah have to agree with that lol
Katrina to lose the most from the fiasco called Jab Tak Hai Jaan
Of course a bad film affects all those concerned with the film. So everyone from Aditya to Shahrukh to Anoushka and Rahman will lose some sheen after the film settles down without impressing anyone and cheesing off so many more. The person who stands to lose most from the fiasco of JTHJ is Katrina, because it is her performance that has drawn the most flak.
Before this film, she was gaining some respect and acceptance as someone who was at last learning her acting chops. Films like Mere Brother Ki Dulhan, Rajneeti and Zindagi Na MIlegi Dobara were proof that she could pull off character driven roles and make female lead oriented films work. This one has revealed her to be what she was always thought off as – eye candy and a exciting dancer. What this will ensure is that she wont get too many plum roles.
The actress to gain the most out of the scenario is Deepika…not in small measure due to her performance in Cocktail – a film which has benefited all – Saif, Imtiaz, Diana, Pritam , and of course Deepika, because her performance was the highlight and surprised everyone with its quantum jump in quality.
She now has Kochadiyan with Rajni / Ravikumar, Chennai Express with Shahrukh/ Rohit Shetty, Race 2 with Saif / Abbas-Mustan, Yeh Jawani Hai Deewani with Ranbir / Ayan Mukherjee and Ram Leela with Ranveer / Sanjay Bhansali. DShe has it pretty much covered in terms of genres, co-stars and directors.
As I have mentioned bad film does not translate into bad box office right awy but affects the subsequent films of all involved. And it si the same with good films.
Mard may have done well in box office, but the audience dissatisfaction gets reflected after a time delay in subsequent films like Ganga Jamuna Saraswati and Jaadugar. On the other hand a god film like Jab We Met may not boast of great box office figures , but it leads to the good response ofa Kainay a Golmal Returns or a Love Aaj Kal. Just like a Rockstar may not show up very well in box office terms but it primes the audience to come in drives for Barfi.
No body said cause and effect was simple. And least so in the slippery slopes of box office.
Utkal uncle–I agree that deepika has gained a lot from cocktale, as she rightly deserves
Also one sees a certain ‘aura’ in her now (though I maybe wrong and the future films will confirm)
As for katrina–what is she to lose anyhow ( that she had)?
The ‘role’ in JTHJ required her to behave in a certain ‘detached’ way that yrf thought goes with THEIR idea of an alluring lead–though Kat isn’t a madhuri or sridevi (!) to add to that.
WIth ETT behind her and dhoom 2 ahead of her box office wise–where’s the big worry
She is not here for some decades (like the male stars) to be affected beyond a point
Also how much longer is her tenure in Bollywood as the número Uno anyhow–that’s a sad reality of actresses there–look @ rani and aiyyah where she apparently did v well ( as per amy) but what happened?
Katrina also has Hritiks next ( cruise Diaz remake) and that is the sort of projects she will/should be doing.
So all this is immaterial–katrina wasn’t in that fray anyways
With dhoom3– katrina will be getting her third 100 crores grosser in a row and maybe much more..& that’s what her purview/scope is– simple..
Were u or some others seriously thinking katrina would be doing a vidya balanesque makeover soon –really?
the word ‘fiasco’ for JTHJ is an overstatement in a world where yuvraaj, veer, TMK, joker, tezz exist in the middle of ‘good spells’
Though it is a relative underperformer surely
Don’t think it will be katrina who will get affected most and shouldn’t
And anushka should infact gain given her spirited performance
Ad dont think either of them should be to blame for the boxi flick underperformance of JTHJ
Yashraj anyhow are on a roll with ETT, dhoom3 as well!
The ONLY one who would lose from this and should lose from this–inspite of an ace performance in the second half where he saved the film to respectability atleast is SRK
With JTHJ, as I had predicted the Rahul/raj persona has formally and officially died towards the end of the first half
What started with ra1 is now complete
There have been murmurs reaching a crescendo lately but I have never bought to them till now
Inspite of predmininanyl being an srk hater though out his career and recently his detractor esp till mnik, I have NEVER thought srk being below aamir forgt Salman
But with JTHJ –for the FIRST time–SRK Loses the top slot –OFFICIALLY and perhaps FOREVER !
Good bye SRK –things will never be the same for u again
But u were great while u lasted (close to two decades) and the biggest star India has ever seen after bachchan (as per now)
end of an era for srk,
do not say this as srk fans will come like ton of bricks.
every star come to boom & bust,what goes must come down as public gravity pulls down .People who go to see films and decides the faith of that film,early in 70s & 80s most films had same thing,got to have very good story line which includes Amitabh films but exception with Amitabh films that weak story line but powerfull performance from him used to carry the film to safety ,i.e, cover the losses.srk is going the same phase of initials coming good but film crases ,srk films are just initials and that will come to an end if his decline continues.everything comes to end at some point.
SOS and jthj are running neck to neck,sos is an under dog but having said that still srk films should be doing 200cr+ to stay in touch with salman as he is running away ,Talaash is releasing soon and that will put more damper on sharukhs film.
You have analysed quite well about Katrina. She will not fade away so easily and she will always be above Deepika who is a plain jane.
SRK should now reinvent himself and invest in better scripts. YRF’s type of love stories have lost their lustre over the years.
My prediction that YRF and ARR cant go together has been proved. Music also let down the film. YRF type of love stories need a Jatin Lalit.
SRK still may surprise all the naysayers if Chennai Express works very well.
I agree with Utkal when he says certain movie choices indicate how certain stars may fare.
SOS surely is the surprise package here. Never expected it to tag along so close to JTHJ. SOS had the disadvantage of screens as well as poor critic reviews despite this it remains on strong footing and moves from strength to strength. Ajay’s gamble paid off well. This genre of Masala is surely the flavour of the season and here to stay for long.
SATYAMSHOT 
November 16, 2012 at 6:57 AM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Third Day Business
Tuesday 13th November 2012 19.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan grossed around 13.50 crore nett on its third day as per early estimates which takes the three day business of the film to around 45 crore nett.
The film has done good to very good business all over initially apart from Bihar. CI is also on the lower side. The best business for the film has come in South India and West Bengal as these markets have been a one horse race.
The South and West Bengal do tend to drop faster than the traditional Hindi markets so how well it can sustain in Mumbai, Delhi/UP, east Punjab and Central markets over the next three days will hugely important for its long term business.
The three day territorial breakdown will be published on the website at around 16.00 IST.
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November 16, 2012 at 6:58 AM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Three Day Territorial Breakdown
Saturday 16th November 2012 16.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan has collected 45 crore nett approx over its first three day period. The territorial breakdown is as follows.
Mumbai – 17.60 crore
Delhi/UP – 8.53 crore
East Punjab – 3.29 crore
West Bengal – 2.58 crore
Bihar – 64 lakhs
CP Berar – 1.61 crore
CI – 1.45 crore
Rajasthan – 2.02 crore
Nizam – 2.56 crore
Mysore – 2.91 crore
Others – 1.65 crore
TOTAL – 44.84 crore
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November 16, 2012 at 6:58 AM
Son Of Sardaar Third Day Business
Friday 16th November 2012 11.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar collected around 11.50 crore nett on its third day as per early estimates. The three day total for the film is around 34.50 crore nett. The film is super strong in Delhi/UP, East Punjab, Bihar, CP Berar, CI and Rajasthan.
In Delhi/UP, East Punjab, CI and Rajasthan the film will emerge the biggest hit of Ajay Devgn’s career. Bihar may also make the list. The day figures in the above circuits ensure the film will sustain in these circuits for the next two weeks.
Out of the other circuits, Mumbai is pretty good as Gujarat is strong and business in Nizam is also fair while Mysore, West Bengal and Tamil/Nadu are weak.
The three day territorial breakdown will be published on the website at around 16.00 IST.
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November 16, 2012 at 6:59 AM
Son Of Sardaar Three Day Territorial Breakdown
Friday 16th November 2012 16.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar has collected 34 crore nett over its first three day period. The territorial breakdown is as follows.
Mumbai – 12.10 crore
Delhi/UP – 6.76 crore
East Punjab – 3.79 crore
West Bengal – 1.01 crore
Bihar – 1.00 crore
CP Berar – 1.77 crore
CI – 1.78 crore
Rajasthan – 2.49 crore
Nizam – 1.63 crore
Mysore – 83 lakhs
Others – 85 lakhs
TOTAL – 34.01 crore
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November 16, 2012 at 7:00 AM
taran adarsh @taran_adarsh
#SOS [India] Thu 12.20 cr. Total: 39.13 cr nett. Superb!
1h taran adarsh taran adarsh @taran_adarsh
#JTHJ [India] Thu 14.45 cr. Total: 49.22 cr nett. Excellent.
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November 16, 2012 at 7:29 AM
@Satyam, you closed comments on the other thread before I saw this post of yours, so I’m responding here. I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that “People mistakenly believe ‘realism’ to be the same as ‘truth’.” This lies at the heart of many of the cinematic debates these days.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:15 AM
part of an older comment:
[But the point here is that even when one sometimes thinks these older films are ‘nothing’ one is right at one level and reductive at another. why? Because many of those nothing films (say a quintessential Shammi Kapoor comedy) encapsulate their world with a certain truth even within their escapist format or evoke an aura and a gesturality and so on that makes them valuable period pieces (assuming this to be the case.. and clearly it isn’t so for every older film) at minimum. Put differently there might be more ‘truth’ in a Shammi Kapoor comedy that isn’t aiming at any kind of profundity in any overt sense than in a serious contemporary film. Because the former perhaps creates a ‘world’ whereas the latter doesn’t, the former possibly trades better in the singularly potent aspects of cinema than the latter, the latter might not be art-work enough (even if it’s otherwise serious) to make up the difference that way.]
To add to this I am of course not saying that a Satyajit Ray film has competition in a Shammi Kapoor work when it comes to questions of ‘truth’. But there might be one between dozens of multiplex attempts these days that are ostensibly serious and certainly not insincere but that are also little more than Hollywood or film festival formats speaking Hindi! This is another way of getting at the ‘rooted’ which for me has never been about some sort of chauvinistic investment in the ‘native’ but about an engagement with one’s immediate environment in a socio-political sense or what have you. And on this note what Bombay has often done over the last twenty years is precisely resort to an ‘ethno-centrism’ in the service of a notion of ‘realism’. So for instance you have a fairly good representation of a Marathi character in terms of speech and gesturality et al. This is a very specific representation. Compared to this the average masala film operated at a level of abstraction. No ethnicity was delineated as sharply. Even when certain religious or ethnic types were represented this happened in rather stereotypical ways. But the realism of the 90s and beyond in this sense was for the most part not about any greater truth. The representation counts for something but it wasn’t done across the board. In Tamil commercial films (and otherwise) you have all kinds of folks represented from different parts of TN, often great care is taken to stress their varying speech elements and so on. So when they’ve had the same impulse they’ve not been restrictive about it. I am not really a fan of this entire approach but there’s something to be said about doing it fairly. Again you often have the lead in a film hailing from a different TN town and then a big deal is made about this. In Bombay on the other hand you still have a very limited set. So yes Marathi representations but what else? All of North India becomes the same. Usually ‘Punjabi’ or later you had a generic UP stand-in (nevermind the distinctions between western and Eastern UP and so on).
but let’s just stick to the Marathi representation. Alright it’s done well in a particular film but so what?! Even documentaries are completely useless if that’s the limit of their aims. Documentaries too have to aim at a greater truth. And so even though those older masala films were more abstract they were so in the service of a certain universality. There was a larger ideological set here within which even the otherwise objectionable stereotyping made a certain sense. The problem with contemporary cinema is that directors have the rather mistaken notion that representing accurately the speech patterns of someone from UP is everything. Nothing else really needs to be done in the film. That representation is the whole show! Of course there’s another point here which is that this kind of ‘ethnic show’ is really for deracinated multiplex consumption! In any case the problem isn’t the tighter focus in this sense but that the latter doesn’t open on to something greater. When Scorsese made Means Streets this too was about a very small slice of the world and the film remained heavily focused on for the most part a few streets in certain neighborhoods but through this focal point the director opened up a world or something universal which is why so many cinemas in so many parts of the world were able to learn from him.
It’s also not just about ethnic representation. As I said a film festival effort ‘in Hindi’ is rather useless unless it is also anchored to the local. If I can neatly summarize this I would say ‘Udaan not Barfi’! This isn’t a statement against Barfi as pure narrative about which one could have a different debate but about the fact that Barfi is a very recognizable film festival effort. How well or not it has been handled is again another discussion but that’s the impulse here. And it’s not the only one nor is Bollywood the only industry that does this. There are lots of cinemas around the world that produce much more serious film festival efforts that are also ultimately bland films for the same reason. Barfi is a film that could have been made anywhere with very slight differences. Is it better than most other stuff coming out of Bollywood? Sure! But if it is not truly an ‘Indian’ effort in this sense and if it also isn’t truly superior film-making in other ways why should I watch it at all? In a more commercial format we saw the same with Abhishek’s Game. Not a bad film on its own but a complete xerox of a film in terms of the world it creates. It just happens to be in Hindi but it could be in a number of other languages. Now Barfi attempts something more serious than Game but in the final analysis it offers no greater truth than Game. Because in each case the ‘aesthetics’ of the film are still markedly inferior to the best of what you would get elsewhere in those very same genres and also in each instance you don’t have the ‘anchoring’ in the local that could create a genuine ‘difference’. My point here isn’t the usual Philistine one ‘we’re Indians, we’re not into those kinds of films, the common man wants this or that and so on.. as an aside I should say and paraphrasing Obama, we are the ‘common man’ we pretend to look for!’. I’m not against Indian cinema taking newer directions (though one wonders why greats like Ray and Adoor and Ghatak and many others have not been able to provide this direction to so many contemporary Indian filmmakers!) but without the right ‘rootedness’ one is making plastic films either way. So again nothing wrong with Barfi on its own but it’s a pointless film otherwise. I could watch this kind of subject a 100 times each week from different parts of the world. Just having Indian actors is not enough of a kick for me! On the other hand Udaan is the exact opposite. Everything that Barfi isn’t. Very few Udaans in Hindi unfortunately.
The truth can come about in different ways. Importing categories authorized by the colonial other testifies to a certain historical dynamic but it doesn’t otherwise create any truth on its own.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:53 AM
Fantastic comment Satyam. Having said that I recently rewatched Howrah Bridge. Now i loved the way Calcutta is portrayed (left a longer comment on ur Gehri Chaal piece) but Madhubala’s attempt at speaking ‘Maharashtrian Hindi’ was laughably poor. “And so even though those older masala films were more abstract they were so in the service of a certain universality. There was a larger ideological set here within which even theotherwise objectionable stereotyping made a certain sense.” How, could u explain?
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November 16, 2012 at 11:52 AM
Let me respond to this briefly as I am going to step out. Take AAA. It could be argued that the Muslim or the Christian here are stereotypical figures in certain ways. But Desai uses this opportunity to not just make them the true heroes of the film far more than Amar, he also uses the occasion to advance a truly secular ideal. So being authentically Indian means always having Anthony and Akbar at the forefront! And though there is stereotyping it is delivered to the audience with great affection.
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November 16, 2012 at 5:44 PM
So being “authentically Indian” means glorifying the minorities at the expense of the majority? I hope I’m misunderstanding you.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:19 PM
As a matter of politics I actually do believe that a minority should be privileged in every society that is otherwise not structurally tilted towards the same (in other words it’s not Syria!). Because the majority, contrary to the hyperventilations of most right-wingers in most countries, is never under threat. This is simply a political imaginary that is created for various reasons. The health of a democracy at any rate is better measured by how much is guaranteed to the minority as opposed to the majority. This is where even some very ‘advanced’ democracies falter. It might be that there is no democracy that can adequately account for minorities. Not least because the nation-state is always founded on the construct of the majority. But in any case I do not know of a single democracy where a minority is glorified at the expense of the majority. Again I do not know of a single one.
Having said that I did not intend all of this when I made that comment. That was just an example. The ‘truth’ here is Desai own Nehruvian vision. One need not subscribe to it but there is a certain popular manifestation of this ideology in his cinema. But I’ll offer another example of the same. In those old 60s films you would sometimes see love songs shot at the Taj Mahal (you still see this in contemporary Tamil films sometimes). Now these videos never quite worked for me but there was a historical archive these videos referenced and this was something the entire audience was familiar with. It’s a part of Indian lore. On the other hand you see in K3G a love song shot by the Pyramids. This seems empty because there is no real linkage between those ancient monuments and contemporary Indian lovers. The archives are completely other. So here these sites are used purely for grandeur and titillation. No ‘truth’ to this.
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November 17, 2012 at 1:17 AM
Thanks much Satyam for your explanations.
On Udaan Ebert is saying something completely different from u and I have to say that he is missing the point here-
“Although India has the world’s second most active film industry, “Udaan,”by Vikramaditya Motwane, is its first competition entry in seven years. It’s well made, involving, but (to my eyes at least) not particularly Indian. This story could have been set anywhere; it doesn’t depend on location, but on personalities.
“Perhaps when I say the film isn’t especially “Indian” I am expecting something more exotic. But India has one of the world’s largest middle classes, and its members spend very little time riding around on elephants. They are, I suppose, something like those we see here, with problems we can identify with.”
http://confessionsofafilmmaker.blogspot.in/2010/05/roger-ebert-on-udaan.html
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November 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM
LOL, Satyam, such a long response even when I was agreeing with you? This is why I fear to engage with you. 🙂 I’ll get back to this later as there is much to respond to, but I don’t have the time right now.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:08 PM
Ha! Guilty as charged! Seriously though I was just trying to expand on certain points!
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November 16, 2012 at 9:33 AM
http://www.boxofficeindia.com/boxnewsdetail.php?page=shownews&articleid=5103&nCat
JTHJ has collected 19 Cr in three working days in overseas and weekend is still to come.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:44 AM
As I said elsehwere I think JTHJ probably won’t do more than 120, maybe 130 if it’s lucky. It’s not been an OSO-like start and much more of a RNBDJ deal. Solid start, perhaps good follow-through. I suspect it does as much as Rowdy but Rowdy was iconic in its own way. That isn’t the case here. And when you’re talking about some of the huge benchmarks from other stars JTHJ is very far. Now it did have competition but the competition here is mostly concentrated in single screens where JTHJ was never going to do anything anyway (judging by SRK’s track record in this genre). So there isn’t as much of an overlap as there might have been. Of course I say it seems to be like RNBDJ but that film doubled its week 1 number more or less. If RNBDJ has 100 crores or so in week 1 it’s safe to say it won’t be doing 200! It would be lucky to even get to 150. Nothing since OSO for SRK has hit those highest gross benchmarks and no film has even hit the highest opening benchmarks. RA One came closest to this with more spent on advertising than most of those other 100 crore grossers put together! Getting back to JTHJ 150 after a 100 crore week 1 would probably be acceptable given the standards prevalent today. But not if one is otherwise chasing those other massive grossers other stars have. And again it’s been 5 years since OSO. Plenty of very major projects with SRK in this period but nothing to challenge the bars set by others. Note by the way how even Taran and Nahata are much more retrained about the film’s box office performance. Usually they’re hyper-ventilating. They were saying more for Ra One! The same goes for BOI.
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November 16, 2012 at 10:08 AM
You had also said earlier that SOS would not be able to touch 100 cr (since it wasn’t multiplex friendly). What do u think now. I believe it should touch that mark. So inspite of a Yash Chopra-SRK magnum opus, Devgn is holding his own (infact is outgrossing JTHJ at places)- speaks something abt Devgn’s B.O. power though (and i am not saying this abt u but i clearly remember during the BB days some here were saying that Devgn is almost non-existent at BO- u of course did not say this)
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November 16, 2012 at 11:48 AM
would still be very surprised if it did. It’s just at 35 crores in three days. At the trajectory it’s on it would need Singham-like trending more or less to get there. It has the JTHJ competition and in two weeks other films release. So it needs to do the maximum it can in the first two weeks. To even have that chance it would have to be unbelievably stable. Not impossible but improbably given how just about every non-Aamir 100 crore grosser trends. Singham of course was the one exception. Will say though that the film might have done a 100 without competition. Not absolutely convinced about this because it seems rather weak in multiplexes. It’s not just the competition because OSO and Saawariya were both superb in multiplexes over the opening weekend. Given this film’s look and feel I’m not surprised it hasn’t been able to attract more multiplex participation. Clearly WOM seems to be good among those who have seen it but it’s so far not expanded its base.
On outgrossing JTHJ I doubt that’s happening at any multiplex where it really matters. I’m sure that’s happening at a lot of single/double screens but in these JTHJ never had much of a chance anyway. For years SRK grossers in these genres did nothing in these. On saying Devgan isn’t a box office force is clearly absurd. He’s not at the top of the pack by any means but he’s gained considerable steam within his comfort genres. Of course it is also the case that a suspiciously high number of these films are remakes and/or sequels. And that’s been partly the game with his peers as well. Salman has had two in this period, one is now going to be a sequel but the thing is that he’s getting such massive numbers that it’s not just because of this. Akshay on the other hand has his first masala hit in Rowdy and it’s not at Salman’s level in terms of initial and so on (though he too damaged himself with too many comedy failures). Devgan is certainly putting out some big grossers with remarkable regularity. It’s foolish to deny this means something.
I will still repeat what I said earlier — Devgan made a mistake releasing SOS over the same period. He should have waited a week. It’s clear that the film, whatever level it’s found, would have done better in the absence of competition and without the latter it might even have attracted a larger share of the multiplex audience. 100 crores in those circumstances would have been much more gettable. JTHJ I think is affecte far less by the competition. Some damage for sure but not one that seriously alters the box office trajectory of this film.
The thing is that if you’re in Salman’s current position you can release any film any time and generate massive numbers. If you’re Devgan you either need the Singham sort of deal which is a must for at least the base audience or something like BB which has an initial appeal to a wider audience. SOS falls between these stools. The multiplexes don’t regard it as unmissable and while the base shows up it’s not enough to drive them crazy. Note how Devgan’s true Singham base hasn’t really been that interested in SOS. Which is to say in the largest territory of Bombay.
In the final analysis I’d say both films will probably do reasonably well but neither one has truly set the box office on fire. here I’m not even that obsessed about the 100 crores. Think a whole brand of fanaticism has developed about this number. If Singham does 85-90 crores that would still be rather good for it in terms of trending (unless it has a huge weekend in which case it would need a bigger total). Similarly 140-150 for JTHJ wouldn’t be bad given where it’s started out (120-130 wouldn’t be good enough given a 100 crore week 1.. unless of course it does less than this). and I’m also not forgetting the whole Thackeray affair. Large parts of Bombay seem shut down. but even accounting for all these factors a fair analysis would have to suggest that so far neither film has done anything special relative to expectations. And unless one or both of these films trend remarkably well I don’t think this changes.
On JTHJ incidentally consider a fairly relevant comparison. Barfi did a 100 crores or something recently. This wasn’t a film for everyone. Clearly wasn’t a universal film even for multiplex audiences. It did well with enough segments here to get to that number. But if Barfi can do this aren’t some of these other multiplex films hopelessly under-performing?!
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November 16, 2012 at 12:34 PM
perfect setup for Talaash as none of these 2 films have generated repeat value…..people wud lap it up surely….music is already hit
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November 16, 2012 at 1:38 PM
i think jthj has done far less and sos far more than expectations. with horrible promos of sos and yrf dirty tactics i was expecting jthj to decimate it. the fact that both films suck must have helped. i don’t think final numbers would have been much more, even with week apart solo releases.
going by numbers, srk is finally settling into the hrithik, ajay, akshay category; second rung behind aamir & salman. wonder why aa has not given his final word on what this means for srk’s star power, i mean we can’t really have a clear picture unless aa gives his pronouncement.
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November 16, 2012 at 5:56 PM
Antya: “going by numbers, srk is finally settling into the hrithik, ajay, akshay category; second rung behind aamir & salman.”
I am bemused at how Aamir is still revered in box office terms for a three year old film. True, its record hasn’t yet been broken (but neither has Gadar’s in inflation adjusted terms), but it’s not as if he’s been consistently giving hits of such magnitude since then — he hasn’t had even a single release. Though some anti-Aamir elements point to Dhobi Ghat to deride his box office power, I don’t count that. I think we’ll have to see how
Talaash performs to see his consistency at the box office in comparison to Salman. Give him credit for the kind of films he does, but don’t assume he’s a box office power without the right genre of film.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:28 PM
But the Gadar example isn’t relevant because its star isn’t relevant (and the inflation argument is a complicated one anyway.. otherwise taken to its logical extreme no film released after the 70s could really match the biggest hits of this decade and previous ones after making those adjustments). That’s obviously not the case with Aamir. And it’s not only about Talaash but also about a follow-up in D3 and the Hirani film. It’s true that he takes these big breaks sometimes but in the past it has never had a detrimental effect on his career. He took off for years after DCH when he wasn’t even as big as he is now and he came back with the biggest initial in MP. After 2006 he again disappeared for a couple of years (just had TZP in between) and again got the biggest initial and gross in Ghajini. A year later there was 3I. Why would one assume he wouldn’t be able to do the same now? There is no indication that he’s lost any of his draw. I would think the argument is actually the reverse. One would actually have to prove that he couldn’t get the biggest numbers anymore!
On the genre my claim has long been that Aamir gets the best numbers possible for a given genre. The best overall results. So in absolute terms 3I has not been beaten (even with the advantage of inflation it hasn’t been beaten in three years!) but in terms of trending even Ghajini hasn’t been touched. But his career over the last decade or more amply demonstrates that in just about every genre he gets the biggest success. Obviously one can’t do a direct comparison with some of these genres. On the other hand the other stars also prosper in their strength genres. It’s not as if they perform that way in genres that are not natural to them!
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November 16, 2012 at 10:18 PM
“On saying Devgan isn’t a box office force is clearly absurd. He’s not at the top of the pack by any means but he’s gained considerable steam within his comfort genres. ”
lol..so now u agree who should be credited for Bol Bachhan’s success…
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November 17, 2012 at 8:03 AM
Still sore about Bol Bachchan?!
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November 17, 2012 at 7:08 PM
when aamir’s films don’t get any highest openers, any biggest grossers etc. or something in that vicinity for the next 5 years, he’d be second-rung too.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:55 AM
Ailing Sena chief affects collections of Jab Tak Hai Jaan, Son Of Sardar
http://www.dnaindia.com/entertainment/report_bal-thackeray-s-health-affects-jab-tak-hai-jaan-son-of-sardar_1765447
Balkishan Shroff of Shringar Films told IANS: “Yes there has been a fall at the box office on Thursday. Many people refused to step out of their house on Thursday and sadly there was a loss of 30% to 35% of collection for the both the films.”
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November 16, 2012 at 9:57 AM
Link is not working. Just go to dna.com
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November 16, 2012 at 10:08 AM
some conspiracy against ur links Sanjana 😛
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November 16, 2012 at 11:32 AM
Corrected.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:25 AM
I was missing an essay from Satyam and here it came..When any Bachchan movie releases BOI,Komal,Taran reduce the nos and when any Srk movie comes they inflate the nos..
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November 16, 2012 at 11:28 AM
Actually didn’t say anything of the sort though I see ‘reading’ continues to be a challenge for you. Take their numbers if you like. There’s only a 4 crore difference between Taran’s and BOI’s at this point. I’ve seen 8 crore differentials on many films for a week 1 number and this might yet expand. My point though was that Taran and Nahata don’t seem to be going as crazy as they normally do. BOI similarly have seemed rather too restrained here. Otherwise we get hourly reports from all kinds of theaters for some other films!
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November 16, 2012 at 11:35 AM
I think JTHJ is not going to shatter any records as some expected.It will be an earner and will cetainly reach 120 crores as Satyam say. MAY BE EVEN A BIT MORE. SOS. OTOH in my books has exceeded expectations. Going up against JTHJ was a risky venture but it has held its own and may not be surprised if it catches up and even surpasses the daily gorsses of JTHJ.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:37 AM
BOI,taran and Komal are reporting at the same pace they used to.May be you visited these sites after a long time.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:41 AM
@rajen1rajen, i think no film till date has broken any record when other big film also releases on the same date..Anyway just check this
ETT — 60 CR. Around [3300 Screens ]
JTHJ — 50 CR. Around
[2500 Screens ]
SOS — 39 CR Around [2000 Screens ]
So now here is the average per screen collections
ETT — 1.82 LAKH PER SCREEN
JTHJ — 2.0 LAKH PER SCREEN
SOS — 1.95 LAKH PER SCREEN
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November 16, 2012 at 11:44 AM
I think JTHJ is not doing bad at all considering the movie a 3 hr long,hence less no of shows at multiplexes.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM
No one is saying it’s doing badly. But what I’m saying is not very different from what you’ve just said. ‘Not doing badly at all’ is hardly a ringing endorsement for Yash Chopra’s last film with SRK and Katrina in it!
And while I concede the length and some of those other factors I don’t think they decided at some point ‘we can make a 2.5 hr movie that will do 175 crores but let’s just make a 3 hr film that doesn’t do too badly’!
The thing is that to get a big gross you need some cross-section of the audience truly charged about the film, hence giving it a big initial. My own sense is that no one was really excited about JTHJ. It’s just too late for this genre, it’s just too late for SRK, and it’s certainly too late for the two together! ‘Not badly at all’ or a bit better than this is probably all one can expect from this.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:56 AM
It has certainly hurt both films but IMO,SOS has emerged more unscathed in the battle. JTHJ will obviously collect more but that was a given. SOS could have folded up like Saawariyan or JTHJ could have performed like OSO but neither happened.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:58 AM
yes that’s true which is why I think Devgan made a mistake releasing it when he did. He could have used the extra oxygen.
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November 16, 2012 at 6:01 PM
Releasing SOS a week later wouldn’t have made any difference, because the YRF agreement with the single screens was in force for two weeks. So I think they made the right decision to release it on Diwali (which was always their plan, anyway), to get whatever holiday advantage they could.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:53 AM
Before Talaash releases, think JTHJ will be at 115 crores and SOS will be around 105 crores.
After that Talaash will release and little will probably be added after that.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM
Both Raone and now JTJH would not have touched 100 cr had it not been released in a festive season.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:59 AM
yes no one accounts for this stuff. everyone just lists all the disadvantages. Of course even Diwali is now evidently a bad season for releasing films. But there are enough crazies who keep looking for this date!
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November 16, 2012 at 12:07 PM
actually I think some of the other days are also mythologized in a different direction. Holidays always help. Specially towards the end of the year you have the combined effect of Christmas and New Year and a film can really capitalize on this. Eid is not quite the same thing though for certain reasons I am willing to concede that Salman is almost uniquely helped by the Eid factor more than anyone else! These theories are often not tested. Eid releases seem big because of course Salman keeps bringing a film on Eid. How many other big Eid releases did we see in the prior decade? Christmas/New Year are big but you also have a big Aamir or Salman or SRK (or whatever) film releasing. Don2 still couldn’t do anything close to a 3I around these dates despite being a sequel to a remake!
I’m not of course arguing that any holiday season doesn’t help. It does. But people tend to attach a mystical quality to these seasons. SRK had Diwali releases for many years but these films were going to work anyway and in many cases in a big way.
Ultimately there is no film whose box office trajectory is completely reshaped by these factors. At the margins it of course helps. With a film already doing very well and with strong WOM it can help more. So not denying the obvious.
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November 16, 2012 at 12:10 PM
There is not a huge buzz on JTHJ. Some people even mentioned the death of Yash Chopra would invigorate the box office to new heights.
The reality is simply this. SRK has not had a top grosser since 2007. 5 years. And next year it will be 6 years.
Katrina has been a lucky charm for many films and stars, but in JTHJ I am surprised at how little interest the onscreen fireworks should have garnered. My guess is Yash Chopra’s last film was bit too “dirty” from promos, bit too “revealing” and not the “clean” film people on Diwali like to see like a Veer Zaara. “All over” each other in a London telephone booth or waking up naked on the rooftop is not the deal wished for by the core audience, who idolised a poster boy due to family values, stealing the bride from the mandip with “clean” tactics, song sequences in Switzerland!
Emraan Hashmi could have been in this film!
The statement is full circle now. It was coined in 2004, only SRK or sex sell! Maybe SRK and sex don’t sell as well! There seemed a level of desperation to create a film with all these promos with Katrina and SRK sharing all these moments together.
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November 16, 2012 at 12:38 PM
Jay,
I think you have summed it up well.
‘Maybe SRK and sex don’t sell as well’ – thats a brilliant line.
SRK ( am not bashing him here) for all his appeal always seems kind of asexual. His core audience didnt like him doing that stupid song in OSO and am sure dont relish these scenes in JTHJ. This miscalculation is on Adi’s shoulders.Not SRK or Yash Chopra.
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November 16, 2012 at 12:47 PM
The fact remains that JTHJ could have been a lot more, much bigger as it had a lot going for it – SRK/YR reuniting,Katrina, Anushka Sharma, Rehman,Diwali release, comfort genre, Yashji’s sad demise – a kind of perfect storm from BO view point.
But, regardless of the eventual total, I dont think that potential has been realised. Some of it has to be the fact that SRK is not the force he was, some of it that the movie hasnt delivered.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:04 PM
@sm, sanjana, ami, an jo, old gold… i came across this shocking news.
The 31-year-old Indian dentist, who was seventeen weeks pregnant, went to the hospital with severe back pain. Within hours of being admitted, doctors told her she was miscarrying. The law in Ireland—which only allows for abortion if a woman’s life is in danger—prevented Savita from being able to end her pregnancy and her excruciating pain because there was still a fetal heartbeat present.
As Savita’s condition worsened over the course of three days, she and her husband begged doctors to end the doomed pregnancy. They refused, saying “this is Catholic country.”
Savita countered, “I am neither Irish nor Catholic.” Still, she was denied. That night she vomited repeatedly and collapsed in a restroom.
The following day, the fetus’s heartbeat finally stopped and it was removed by the doctors. But it was too late. Savita was transferred to the ICU where she died of sceptic shock.
for more please read here.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/171285/justice-savita#
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November 16, 2012 at 1:05 PM
i know it is offtopic, but didnt knew where to place it. It just stunned me! i am quite speechless.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:11 PM
Indeed sad and stunning and shocking.
Pro Life nut jobs!!
They are not really pro life. It is a stupid mind set that is exploited by religion and dubious politicians.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:16 PM
Very shocking, and surprising. I would have thought like Switzerland most western European countries had legalised abortion on grounds of safety and health of both the unborn baby or the mother.
Switzerland had done this way back.
Very tragic indeed.
I’m wondering whether it’s the first such case or there have been others. If there were other deaths why were the people not active about it?
I think some of the laws can be changed there by referendum.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Yes absolutely gutted…
Now in this age, and time. Woman are required to be protected. And i guess it’s quite communal minded thinking that they say it’s a catholic country.
Right to Life is above any other right, assuming there is no religion no law, still I or any human being anywhere has a Right to Live.
@oldgold, that’s a valid point, whether this is the first incident, or has it come in spotlight only because of this case… quite troubling if u r correct and this is order of the day…
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November 16, 2012 at 1:30 PM
If this is a rare case, many questions will be asked including the racial angle. If it had been their own, that is Irish, would the rules have been different?
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November 16, 2012 at 1:35 PM
Irish are not racial at all, as far as I know.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:41 PM
I just recall one short story by Frederick Forsyth, in which an Indian student gets ill treated by his Irish employer(obviously due to racial prejudice) and how he takes revenge by bringing a rare poisonous snake from India to do the needful. Times have changed but attitudes wont change that easily.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:53 PM
IT’s also important to know who the doctors were. It’0s not necessary they were Irish.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:58 PM
There will always be individual cases sanjana. Hatred and illtreatmment exist for several other reasons too, and if it happens to be for a person of different race it gets termed as racial.
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November 16, 2012 at 2:03 PM
now they are making it about doctors and hospitals. when the law says it is illegal unless life-threatening, doctors have to make a judgment call. it is unfair when the exact terms of what life-threatening means can be so ill-defined. the only sane thing to do is make abortion legal. and now irish people, who are very much a part of what laws are passed in their country are expressing outrage. what hypocrisy! it is their fault that such archaic laws exist in their country, because they don’t want to see beyond their bible. they are all answerable for this mess.
if i participate any more in this discussion, i might lose my mind so i need to step away from this.
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November 16, 2012 at 2:04 PM
They hate English more 🙂
PS sorry for writing in bits and piecesatyam, I’m actually busy elsewhere and this is the result.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:27 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ireland-pledges-clarify-abortion-laws-death-miscarrying-woman/story?id=17738418
Many Republicans in the US ought to migrate to Ireland! This is what they’ve been trying to bring about here.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:35 PM
“If this is a rare case, many questions will be asked including the racial angle”
@ sanjana -though the outcome is rare (maternal death directly related to delay), this practice isn’t !
Ireland has a somewhat defunct primitive catholic tendencies
This lady has now become the poster girl for this movement —
It’s unfortunate she had to lose her life to give impetus to this movement
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November 16, 2012 at 1:37 PM
That’s where most went from to US in the first place.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:40 PM
yeah.. and some should reclaim their ancestry.. would be good riddance!
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November 16, 2012 at 2:15 PM
Believe me. Irish are very nice people. Lets not judge them on one very tragic and unfortunate incident.
The fact that they have reacted favourably should not be ignored.
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November 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM
It’s US that has changed the mentality of those that migrated generations ago.. No Irish is preaching against abortion as far as I know.
The lawwas just lying there with half hearted attempts at changing as no oine seems to have paid much attention.
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November 16, 2012 at 2:23 PM
About the irish –I agree with Oldgold
Irish in general are the most friendly, chirpy, relatively informal, jovial of European creatures
( Some of their females can be too ‘friendly’ though and have some friends)
But as far as their abortion laws are concerned–as anya said –‘archaic’ is the term
Time for them to grow beyond their local pub and bring out some changes n their laws
Btw even the Irish church has some skeletons n the cupboard-hope they are removed b4 being revealed…
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November 16, 2012 at 3:02 PM
Since *you* seem to be acquainted with these skeletons they must have been revealed already.
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November 17, 2012 at 6:35 AM
😉 Oldgold
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November 16, 2012 at 1:20 PM
yes heard about this yesterday..
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November 16, 2012 at 1:22 PM
Shocking. The concerned doctors have been completely irresponsible hiding behind religion. They could have used their brains and hearts in such cases.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:46 PM
The concerned doctor can’t even hide behind ‘religion’
Bcos the ‘victim’ /dying mother was NOT a catholic and in her religion, this requimernt wasn’t there
So why is the Irish state imposing its religious agenda to other religions ?
Why is this not a human rights issue ?
Ps–
Maybe docs like anya can ‘throw more light ‘( when she gets time from her busy schedules)
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November 16, 2012 at 2:25 PM
Yes; read about this a couple of days back….the first thing that came to my mind is what that GOP member said about child-birth after rape being a God’s gift…It is almost as if nature or ‘God’ wanted to show him the opposite!
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November 16, 2012 at 6:47 PM
@Rooney: I’ve been following this story for several days now, mainly in the Irish Times. I’m sorry to see both the issue and the Irish people so mischaracterized here.
If you read the Irish Times you will get the full history of how the abortion issue has been handled there. At one time it was completely prohibited, under any circumstance, for any reason, and yes, this was due to the influence of the Catholic Church. However, 20 years ago, there was a case of a 14 year old girl who had been raped, and became pregnant in consequence. Her parents wanted her to have an abortion and petitioned for an exception to the law, which was denied. Then they wanted to take her to England to have the abortion, but that was also blocked for some reason which I can’t remember now. I do remember the frenzy of the arguments, because obviously time is of the essence. This is something that the anti-abortion forces never acknowledge. The “safe” period for abortion is supposed to be in the first 12 weeks of the pregnancy, with allowable risk up to 16 weeks. After that, as I understand, it becomes medically inadvisable, unless there is some risk to the mother to allow the pregnancy to continue. But the point is that it’s usually at leasts 6 weeks before a woman realizes she might be pregnant, and, if she has any irregularity of menses at all, she might wait another month or two to be sure, at which time she’s already in the boundary of the “safe” period. So these decisions really do have to be made and implemented almost immediately. That was the case with this teenager, and my memory is that she was forced to carry the pregnancy to full term because of the delays caused by all the legal posturing. But I could be wrong, and she might have gotten the abortion after all. The reason I’m not sure is that I have described the case as I remember it, but it is also the case that is repeatedly referred to in all the news reports as ”
Case X”, with many of the same particulars. At any rate, 20 years ago, Case X, of the pregnant raped teenage girl, set the precedent for a change in the law, where they now made an exception to allow for abortion if the “life” of the mother was in danger. They could use this clause in Case X because the girl was in severe depression as a result of the rape and pregnancy, and suicidal.
But, having made the exception in the constitution, the Irish parliament nevertheless took no action to actually enact a law spelling out under what circumstances an abortion could legally be performed, while the laws detailing the penalties for illegally performing an abortion were crystal clear, and served as a good deterrent to doctors.
During those 20 years, there have been several referendums in which the Irish people overwhelmingly voted in favor of having legal abortion, but again, the politicians did not fulfill the demand, because it was too touchy a topic. There is a strong anti-abortion lobby, which seems to be the majority (unlike in the U.S.), as well as some influence from the Catholic Church. It’s important to note that the influence of the Church as a religious institution has been greatly waning during these 20 years, especially in light of various scandals that came out and greatly shocked the populace. Nevertheless, most people identify themselves as “Catholic” on the census form, even if they’ve never been to church in their whole lives. One interesting comment that I read at the Irish Times was that, though the people of Ireland don’t actually care much for either religion or the Catholic Church, they nevertheless see their identification of being “Catholic” as an important way of distinguishing themselves from the English, and maintaining their identity. So there are many factors operating behind the (out of proportion) influence of the Catholic Church, most of which have nothing to do with the general public actually agreeing with Catholic dogma.
An important reason why this state of limbo continued for so long is apparently that people who wanted an abortion simply went to the UK (which is quite close by and relatively easy to access). Now with this case, you have a situation where the patient is not in a state to travel, so that option is out, and the situation went to extremes.
So the debate (and investigation) now is on the two fold question of: (1) Did the doctors know that they could, in fact, perform the abortion under these circumstances, and not be under threat of legal reprisal? This speaks to whether or not the current legal language is too ambiguous, and whether a clear law needs to be enacted (and not just a principle of the right to abortion recognized); and (2) Did the doctors recognize that the patient was in fact in a life threatening situation? If not, then that justifies their not performing the abortion, since it would not meet the terms of the exception provided for in the legal position. This hesitation on the doctors’ part could be either because there was a genuine medical ambiguity in the case, or because they were incompetent or negligent, though the latter possibility is not being pushed very much at this stage, because the matter is under investigation.
As to the much repeated quote of “This is a Catholic country”, I think it is being quoted very much out of context, or is incomplete. To me it sounds like the frustrated answer to a desperate question from the patient as to why she couldn’t get an abortion when she asked, not that they expected everyone to conform to Catholic beliefs. I find it especially telling that all the Indians are reacting with “She is a Hindu and should be treated according to Hindu laws” — alas, so deeply is the different treatment of different religious practitioners engrained in Indian law! They can’t even conceive of a country where the same law applies to everyone.
I think the charges of racism are outrageous, but alas, again this is a knee jerk reaction among Indians, without bothering to learn anything about the situation in question. As soon as the case became known, there have been, and continue to be, large protests and demonstrations in support of Savita and her husband. Heck, the case only came to international notice because of these protests! What has become clear to me from reading all the different articles, though, is that the pro choice forces in Ireland are very much in the minority, with the anti-abortion crowd still holding the sway. So whether anything meaningful comes as a result of the protests and investigation remains to be seen. I don’t have much hopes, because already the public debate is being shaped toward the position that there was no clear cut danger to the mother’s life — i.e., that there was medical ambiguity. This is a good face saving measure that won’t punish anyone, and still maintain the status quo. There was apparently a statement issued by a panel of ob/gyns a few months ago, saying that the present laws were adequate, as there wasn’t much likelihood of a mother’s life being in danger, or something like that. I am just paraphrasing, but essentially they upheld the current legal situation and said that there was no need for any new laws. Please note that this has nothing to do with Savita’s case, as it was an independent medical conference that was held before Savita even entered the hospital.
Oh, one last point is that the European Human Rights Commission (or whatever) “demanded” some years ago that Ireland needs to revise its laws to be in conformity with European norms, and two years ago the UN Human Rights Commission also said the same, but both of these bodies don’t[ have any enforcement powers.
There, Rooney, that’s my “brief”! 🙂
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November 16, 2012 at 8:46 PM
“The “safe” period for abortion is supposed to be in the first 12 weeks of the pregnancy, with allowable risk up to 16 weeks. After that, as I understand, it becomes medically inadvisable”
In States, it is 24 weeks. During 19-20th week they do big ultra sound on fetus to detect Down sysndrome (you get to know Sex also) and people can choose to abort at that time.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_can_you_get_an_abortion
Certainly there is no racism involved but their laws are archaic and need to change. I was talking with a colleague and he also said that people want change but politicians don’t. Then ofcourse the discussion veered in that direction that we get what we choose. We normally vote on on one issue we like but the candidtate represents party and they adhere to multiple policies. Ideally we should select the candidate and we should also vote for policies they should reperesent.
ps – It is ironic here in States that poorer states vote for Republican (whose policy is you are free to do whatever you want and no Govt help) and Richer States vote for Democrats (who are for higher taxes and more Govt).
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November 16, 2012 at 8:57 PM
Yes, it’s legal up to 24 weeks (or even later) in the U.S., but at that point, as you said, it’s done for definite reasons such as potential birth defects, complications of the pregnancy, risk to the mother, etc. Most people who opt for “abortion on demand” do so within the first trimester, and certainly the longer you wait, the higher the risk of complications.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:02 PM
It is rare that you want baby and change you mind later in pregnancy. In any case people have option of giving up the baby (upto 3 day of delivery) at any fire station.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:29 PM
@Munna: No, I was referring to those rare cases where complications develop into the ninth month, and it becomes necessary to abort. I agree that the people who go that far want the baby and are forced into aborting due to medical issues. This is the “partial birth abortion” bugaboo that Republicans try to scare voters with. Very rare, and usually necessary for medical reasons.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:00 PM
The real irony is that poorer states vote Republican and for the principle of “taking responsibility for yourself” and “no government handouts” — receive the highest amount of “government handouts” from richer states which vote Democratic. 🙂 (Just like white people make up the highest number of welfare recipients, despite the propaganda about shiftless blacks getting rich on welfare)
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November 16, 2012 at 1:10 PM
the ‘sense of relief’
It’s good to see a sense of relief here after a few days of ‘eerie silence’!
Good to see Satyam also coming up with some box price predictions now after a few day of release -it’s good to be cautious after ETT200 & barfi100 🙂
Another observation is satyam was ‘holding back’ his predictions till after seeing initial trends –but good to see him finally giving our some eventual figues
As for me-no such issues–
The reality-
>As mentioned earlier-ra1 saw the death of the ‘king’ and with JTHJ-the official swansong of the Rahul/raj figure..
>JTHJ is indeed doing well, moreso overseas, but that’s expected and could have been better
> though this time the competition is bigger but still..
> SOS is doing better than expected–had mentioned this from the massy promos –& this is what’s happened
Well done SOS team-facts are facts
> basically SOS is doing what no other film could -even those of the biggies
There are reasons-srk decline etc but credit is due to devgun
Devgun seems to have finally risen in the eyes of Kajol after decades of cuckolded silence -better late than never
A small thing though-
Arent the figures been mentioned here India figues
Think the chiasm is bigger overseas –but perhaps that’s not being taken into account ..
So to summarise -both both films doing well–for jthj it was expected — but SOS is exceeding expectation
Good luck to both
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November 16, 2012 at 1:22 PM
Don’t believe I ever said anything about the Barfi box office. On ETT I still stand by everything I’ve said. Your repetitions on this matter are not going to change my mind! Just as evidently my arguments on this are never going to comprehensible to you! I accept in good faith that you understand English so will leave that possibility off the table! I know you’re still smarting over Cocktail and how I don’t quite consider it the mind-bending classic you do but hey you’ll have to get over it! Incidentally I did say that the RNBDJ kind of fate was the most likely one for JTHJ.
“Devgun seems to have finally risen in the eyes of Kajol after decades of cuckolded silence -better late than never’
Man is there anything in life for you that is not reducible to this kind of stuff?! You would keep a psychoanalyst very happy if you ever went in for the sessions!
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November 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM
aa uses satyamshot as his psychotherapy. i don’t think it’s working very well so far.
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November 16, 2012 at 1:49 PM
“Don’t believe I ever said anything about the Barfi box office. ”
Haha Satyam that’s the denial of the century !!
Don’t wanna go into the details -no more rubbing of wounds
I asked u for your box office predictions for JTHJ/SOS many times last week–
But good to see u finally obliged AFTER three days of releas and indicators
Don’t u worry Satyam-I’m not here to ‘catch u out’
We all can go wrong–nothing wrong it that 😉
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November 16, 2012 at 1:55 PM
and you still haven’t obliged. i beleive i asked you more than once but you scurried away. come on, be a man now. how much to be considered a not-flop? an actual number like you have given for talaash.
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November 16, 2012 at 2:12 PM
Oops anya
What nobody could do, u have achieved -cornered me 😉
Well, let’s say that with a 100crore–JTHJ won’t be flop
Also bcos overseas it is /will be doing even better–though the numbers aren’t shown here routinely for that..
But 100 crores won’t be respectable for JTHJ–
Though the same for SOS will be …
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November 17, 2012 at 6:38 PM
so the bar is 100 for srk an 180 for aamir? if i was oldgold, i’d be offended.
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November 17, 2012 at 6:45 PM
I can’t offend either of u -anya & Oldgold
So let’s go for a midpoint –between 100 & 150 (Oldgolds projected expectation for talaash)–125
Happy 😉
Btw anya –how was the visit to the ‘church’…
Or did ya watch JTHJ today ha
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November 16, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Testing the limits of the market!
Have been seeing satyams trending graphs which always seem to carry on at the same ‘slope’ well into 100, 125, 150, 175 & can even be hypothetically stretched to 200, 225 upto 300(!!) with the same slope…
The question though-
Does the ‘slope’ remain constant in these graphs–no
Only in hypothetical markets
So while one can ‘juxtapose’ & assume –things simply lose steam after 100 or so and then it takes much longer for lesser additions
Diwali being a suboptimal time to release etc -i don’t buy that!
With two films with good buzz and none of the tanking–
This is a good model to test what the uppoer limits of this market is (@ the current situation)
Bcos even ‘expanding’ markets have a limit –these extrapolations which keep going on and on can only be used in hypotheticals situations for eg to pull down a bonafide near 200 crore grosser ETT
In other words —after ETT200& barfi100–
This JTHJ/SOS ‘bonanza’ may bring an END to this
LIMITLESS EXTRAPOLATION… Let’s see 🙂
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November 16, 2012 at 1:31 PM
“Does the ‘slope’ remain constant in these graphs–no”
according to Hollywood analysts and those of every other professional industry around the world… YES. But you might know more. Hey what do those dummies who made TDK or Avatar or Avengers know?
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November 16, 2012 at 1:43 PM
Btw it takes longer to get the second 100 crore in a 200 crore grosser (if there was one)
If the ‘slope’ was that ‘constant’-why this difference?
The reality is that this ‘slope’ is inversely proportional to the time since release And even that decline in slope isn’t at a fixed constant
ie slope falls much quicker after 150 crore than between 100-150 crore
The basic premise being–
The gap between 200- 225 >> 100-125 and so on
This is also happening due to an inherent ‘fatigue’ or limit in market /paying capacity of all potential viewers @ that time
So a universally liked ‘perfect’ film should go upto 1000croes or more as per those tending charts
But in reality, starts loses steam around 225
And as per these simultaneous releases–the cumulative market may not be the vulgarly projected figures being thrown around
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November 16, 2012 at 2:01 PM
^ Satyam -do opine and advise about this innocent question of slope above
Though those who made TDKR, avatar etc were illuminates from ‘superior Hollywood’ even they can’t go against the basics of mathematics!
It is IMpossible–just like 2+2 has only ONE possible answer–no matter who says it !!
The confounding factor here (that people have been hiding or are oblivious of) is the MUCH bigger markets of Hollywood releases – some of which are simultaneous
, some are not –given the grand scale and proportion, this complex mix may make it ‘appear’ a constant ‘slope’ but the reason isn’t consistent ‘trending’ (only)
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November 16, 2012 at 2:09 PM
Alex, it’s ok to accept when you’re beaten. No shame in that!
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November 16, 2012 at 2:12 PM
Thanx for accepting it Satyam 🙂
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November 16, 2012 at 1:29 PM
And all those srk fans saying Diwali isnt that good–c’mon
It’s the BEST slot –
With a start On Tuesday carrying onto Sunday it’s a dream opportunity
No Spin
While it seems both films will reach past 100–for
Only one will it be a respectable deal –SOS!!
So no ifs no buts–
If SOS does 100 crores here-it’s done v well !
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November 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM
“If SOS does 100 crores here-it’s done v well !”
all factors considered… agreed..
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November 16, 2012 at 1:42 PM
We also need to remember 2 things- 1) The budget of JTHJ is much more than SOS (2) The distributor sitting in, say Kanpur, will get absolutely nothing from the overseas collections. Btw Satyam have u seen the SOS director’s debut film Atithi Tum Kab Jaoge- a nice little toned-down comedy where both Paresh and Devgn did a good job. Much better than SOS, BB and Golmaals. And it did decently at BO too
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November 16, 2012 at 10:07 PM
“We also need to remember 2 things- 1) The budget of JTHJ is much more than SOS ”
What is the budget of both the films and do u know what is the amount of distribution rights for SOS?? Also try to find out the publicity cost for both the movies…
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November 16, 2012 at 11:16 PM
@Bhalo_Manush,people are discussing budget and revenues of films here without knowing ABCD about both.JTHJ is a Yashraj film and has been distributed by YRF themselves.SOS has been produced by Ajay devgan films and VIacom18.This film has been sold to Euros at the cost of 80 cr plus.So SOS has to recover more than JTHJ to become a hit at boxoffice.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:19 PM
Total cost of JTHJ(production+distribution) as confirmed by taran Adarsh is 60 cr
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November 17, 2012 at 8:02 AM
He also said that doesn’t include SRK’s remuneration!
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November 16, 2012 at 11:30 PM
@King Khan
I know the things u have said here…just wanted to see if Saurabh has anything different to tell us…
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November 16, 2012 at 11:25 PM
“If SOS does 100 crores here-it’s done v well !
That will give only 55 cr distribution share from India.Since film is not going to do more than 10cr from overseas and hence will be a flop at 100 cr domestic
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November 16, 2012 at 10:10 PM
“And all those srk fans saying Diwali isnt that good–c’mon
It’s the BEST slot -”
who said Diwali isn’t good…the Diwali day only affects business..but the Diwali period is one of the best time to release a movie…try to understand the difference between the Diwali day and Diwali period…
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November 16, 2012 at 1:53 PM
I do NOT believe in spins –will repeat the same thing–
For SOS–if it does 100 crores –it’s dne it’s job!
Anything more is a bonus
Devgun has salvaged his pride (ESP with Kajol/srk angle lol)
For JTHJ–
It’s difficult since the real ‘difference’ is overseas
Where JTHJ is much ahead –but those are not the figures being supplied here –& won’t be either !!
But though 100 crore will be welcome–for JTHJ it has to do more!
For talash–
180 😉
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November 16, 2012 at 1:58 PM
As i said above an Indian distributor doesn’t get a single penny from the overseas collection. Of course when MNIK SRK fans and media were using the same absurd to call it a hit when it grossed as much as TMK which was declared a flop
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November 16, 2012 at 2:07 PM
One is not arguing is the money goes to the Indian distributor or the call girl he indulges with or his gay partner or their illicit lovers!
The movies earnings are being compared-domestic predominantly
Wth the growth of the overseas markets–they have to be compared as well ideally
Though I get the point that a film that tanks domestically but des better overseas can’t be called a ‘salvaged film’ …
In my mind however–the overseas market has more ‘significance’ than jus the dollars /pounds
It has a certain ‘strategic importance’ that can’t be underestimated
Any industry that talks of ‘crossing over’ etc needs f look at overseas as well as those of the folks sitting n singe screens of Bihar !
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November 16, 2012 at 2:35 PM
Time for JTHJ now folks —
Hopefully Seeing JTHJ v shortly–(if not diverted /distracted to other stuff)–been busy till now- an ‘entourage’ including some ‘unconventional’ Bollywood viewers–good thing is it is subtitled !
Will be good to ‘guide’ the uninitiated into the Bollywood ‘traditions’-and interesting to get European (female) reactions as well..
Watch out for The most ‘unbiased’ review in a couple of hours haha
Ps: btw the other good thing about the spoof—
While katrina & anushka will be ‘kissed’ and ‘loved’ onscreen–anya, Oldgold and Amy will also be … 😉
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November 16, 2012 at 2:48 PM
Err shouldn’t forget sanjana–though director –she will also be v much part of this
Cocktailesque ‘tribute’ to yash chopra and perhaps to the seminal appeal of srk in this genre
vv sehwag has won India more tests than these others not due to the runs but the pace he scores them with and the psychological dominance he unleashes ibt eh bowlers -most of the others saved more tests than won(with due respect to their obvious stature)
JTHJ ultra-Review shortly
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November 16, 2012 at 3:57 PM
Since when did people start calling the flies buzzing around in their apartment while they watch a pirated DVD, an entourage??
The constant posturing is rather pathetic and annoying.
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November 17, 2012 at 12:15 AM
LOL! Rajen- if only Alex’s entourage of Eastern European females was not composed of imaginary friends and actually contained real women- then we might have been spared his constant disturbing fantasises (sorry ‘spoofs’) of female bloggers whom he has never even met! 😛
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November 17, 2012 at 5:59 AM
Haha there seems some ‘angst’&’anxiety’ here
Well, one can’t see a movie alone-so company consists of friends/neighbours/colleagues, sometimes subordinates–here it helped to get some srk fans 😉
Anyhow-this phenomenon of seeing ‘flies’ & ‘pirated DVDs’ (where none exist) reminds me of a fredian deal called ‘projection’ with/out ‘transference’
May this anxiety of some be resolved haha
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November 17, 2012 at 9:51 PM
Word.
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November 17, 2012 at 9:52 PM
This should have appeared below Amis comment.
A very belated Happy Diwali to everybody.
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November 16, 2012 at 2:37 PM
OT – Satyam can delete this if he wishes..
Though glad that India has hammered England, what with Viru’s run- a-ball ton, is it fair then to conclude that the present crop (excluding the Trimurti of Tendlya, Dravid, and Laxman) of players can be knighted ‘Flat-pitch Bullies?’ Of course, I am also welcome to the corollary of calling England ‘Green-top bullies’!!
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November 16, 2012 at 2:46 PM
i guess the game is going on at Ahmedabad, i may be wrong…
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November 16, 2012 at 3:58 PM
Rooney,
Indeed. It is being played in Ahmedabad.
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November 17, 2012 at 10:47 AM
ya, rajen.. and can u believe one of my friend clicked a pic with Pujara, and i said just in fun i guess hope u are lucky for him, and he cracked a double ton, i read it on front page of times!! which also had a pic of his fiancee.. hope the lad devolop strongly dont follow cricket, but new generation needs new heroes.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:48 PM
Ireland anti-abortion law forces thousands of women to move to England for termination.
Chief Executive of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service Ann Furedi said that every year 5,000 women come to England for abortions. Savita could not escape the law because she was in no condition to leave.
According to IBNhome
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November 17, 2012 at 12:17 AM
The Irish laws regarding abortion are absolutely shameful- it’s incredibly difficult to believe that a developed European nation has such backward practises- hopefully this tragic incident leads to some change on this front.
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November 16, 2012 at 11:31 PM
Top ALL TIME Openings: Jab Tak Hai Jaan 8th Son Of Sardaar 17th
Jab Tak Hai Jaan has taken the 8th highest opening of all time while Son Of Sardaar is 17th. Both films should finish higher in the first week list as they have a favourable period for days 4-6. The top opening weekends in the history of Hindi film industry in terms of nett collections are listed below.
1. Ek Tha Tiger – 56.11 crore
2. Ra.One (2011) – 52.93 crore
3. Bodyguard (2011) – 52.62 crore
4. Dabangg (2010) – 48.82 crore
5. Rowdy Rathore (2012) – 46.40 crore
6. Don 2 (2011) – 46.33 crore
7. Agneepath (2012) – 45.66 crore
8. Jab Tak Hai Jaan – 44.85 crore approx
9. Ready (2011) – 42.23 crore
10. Housefull 2 (2012) – 41.50 crore
11. Bol Bachchan (2012) – 39.50 crore
12. Three Idiots (2009) – 37.98 crore
13. Tees Maar Khan (2010) – 36.59 crore
14. Cocktail (2012) – 34.89 crore
15. Golmaal 3 (2010) – 34.81 crore
16. Raaz 3 (2012) – 34.50 crore
17. Son Of Sardaar – 34 crore approx
18. Barfi! (2012) – 33.70 crore
19. Raajneeti (2010) – 33.62 crore
20. Rockstar (2011) – 31.72 crore
http://boxofficeindia.com/boxnewsdetail.php?page=shownews&articleid=5105&nCat=
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November 16, 2012 at 11:38 PM
JTHJ was not able to break DON 2 or Ra One records and similarly Son of Sardar couldn’t break Golmaal 3 record which was set in 2010..
SOS affected JTHJ by diving the multiplex shows which was the strength of JTHJ …and similarly SOS was affected due to unavailability of single screens..In case of solo release it would have been a different story altogether..
Interestingly apart from Ra one none of the SRK’s diwali releases were clear releases. But he missed the opportunity last year…If Ra one was at least a average product like Main hoon na then it could have done wonders at the BO…
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November 17, 2012 at 12:22 AM
I just saw a very intelligent, witty romance called Liberal Arts- it’s about a relationship that develops over a shared love for idealistic conversation. I enjoyed it immensely and would reccomend it to people who like films like Before Sunrise/ Sunset (although it’s obviously not quite in that league) and Certified Copy. Elisabeth Olsen is the female lead and she delivers another winning performance after Martha, Marcy, May, Marlene.
BTW Satyam- have you seen certified copy? what did you think of it?
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November 17, 2012 at 12:29 AM
Atlast the late Yashji inadvertently broke the myth that Katrina can emote. Maybe that must have broken his heart! Watching Katrina in his film.
Here he took a leaf out of Raj Kapoor who used Zeenat Aman in SSS and Yashji also introduced all those steamy scenes to fill the gap on the emotional front.
Female stars willingly go to any lengths with no inhibitions on the acting front if the Producer director is a famous name.
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November 18, 2012 at 1:16 AM
Katrina was fine in ZNMD, and New York too she wasn’t terrible. But give her a trick role and she is an unqualified failure. Like Race, where she had a negative role and
Similar with JTHJ, where she tries her best, but finally it’s a role and situation that requires you to take such giant leaps of faith, that only a truly gifted actress could have made the circumstances credible. Of course, even in portions of her romance with SRK, Katrina is pretty useless and you can see the desperation of the makers to steam up proceedings. It’s not Kat’s fault alone. The script has issues, but just that she doesn’t help the film’s cause one bit.
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November 18, 2012 at 1:17 AM
With respect to Race I meant Katrina looked amused with her own role and what was expected of her…
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November 17, 2012 at 2:14 AM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Fourth Day Business
Saturday 17th November 2012 12.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan collected around 10.25 crore nett on its fourth day. The total for four days is 55 crore nett plus
The film held up better at multiplexes of all the big cities as compared to Son of Sardaar. Gujarat is a holiday so that circuit is holding up best. The best business is in Mumbai circuit where the film has grossed over 21.50 crore and Mysore where it has crossed 3.50 crore nett.
Jab Tak Hai Jaan should show a healthy jump on Saturday as its stronger circuits like Mysore tend to show huge jumps on Saturday though being a Tuesday release could curtail the jump. The film at the moment is on course to hit a century over its extended ten day first week.
http://boxofficeindia.com/boxnewsdetail.php?page=shownews&articleid=5109&nCat=
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November 17, 2012 at 2:15 AM
Son Of Sardaar Fourth Day Business
Saturday 17th November 2012 12.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar collected around 8 crore nett on its fourth day. The total for four days is 42 crore nett approx.
The film had a fall in multiplex areas as it was a working day but areas like UP, Rajasthan and CI held up strongly. The film is doing its best business in Rajasthan, the desert state is even better than East Punjab comparatively as Jab Tak Hai Jaan is doing better in some parts of East Punjab circuit.
Gujarat is still a holiday so the film is holding up strong there enabling Mumbai circuit to put strong numbers. Rajasthan has comfortably crossed 3 crore nett while CI is at 2.25 crore which are fantastic numbers for four days and a big Sunday still to come.
http://boxofficeindia.com/boxnewsdetail.php?page=shownews&articleid=5107&nCat=
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November 17, 2012 at 2:19 AM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Takes Highest Ever Opening In Pakistan
Saturday 17th November 2012 11.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan took the highest ever opening in Pakistan collecting around $100,000 on Friday and Thursday paid previews.
The film beat records of such films as Don and Bodyguard which were previosuly the highest openers in Pakistan.
This Pakistan market is growing for Hindi films as it was 2008 when Singh is Kinng set a record by collecting over $100,000 in a week and now we have a film collecting almost $100,000 in one day.
http://www.boxofficeindia.com/boxnewsdetail.php?page=shownews&articleid=5108&nCat=
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November 17, 2012 at 4:30 AM
I hope Bal Thackeray doesn’t say reacting to the fact that SRK’s film became a hit – ‘Yeh Musal***** ki zeheniyat hi aisi hain”!!!!!!
a la a!@#$%^& Pakistani cricketer that said the same thing after not being considered for Indian Greedy League matches…
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November 17, 2012 at 9:41 AM
The Man is no more @an jo. Just saw news The Tiger is Dead as per news.
Theaters in Mumbai would be closed for the weekend. And i guess maharastra would be in sadness, expect collections to drop.
Also someone said wave cinema owner has died, so wave chain of cinemas gonna remain closed.
So there might be bad impact.
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November 17, 2012 at 7:52 PM
@Rooney: Yes am seeing this piece of news now. So indeed there was contradiction between what the doctors said and the family said about his condition…
Just hope there is no blood-shed and property damage..and the most that will be affected in case this happens is the man on the street that makes a day-to-day living; the cycle-shop owner, the pav-bhaji/vada-pav wala’s mobile shop, and the like..which is painful to see since they are not ‘living’ a life but eking out a life out of what they have..
In the meantime, here are some rare pics..I don’t want to sound communal but it is rather surprising for me to see Salman Khan and his family here. Raj Thackeray was especially livid after Priya Dutt roped in Salman for Bombay’s elections (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcpiO5R2xk&playnext=1&list=PL5C8D83FFD34C8C8F&feature=results_video)
Pics:
http://photos.mid-day.com/news/celebs-at-matoshree/salman-family-1/
http://photos.mid-day.com/news/rare-pictures-of-bal-thackeray/thackeray-first/
LOL at the pic of Thackeray’s grand-kid sitting on Jackson’s lap. If he had an inkling of how Jackson would come to be partly-defined with child-molestation, I don’t think this picture would have made it…
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November 17, 2012 at 9:30 PM
India needs a thorough cleaning. It is now like a overflowing garbage bin, stinking and with little hope.Literally and metaphorically.
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November 17, 2012 at 5:43 AM
Outlook review by Namrata Joshi-
Jab Tak Hai Jaan
Way too old-fashioned for comfort, riddled with absurd twists: it’s abrupt, hurried and awkward.http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?282981
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November 18, 2012 at 1:28 AM
There are two very different and incongruous worlds that JTHJ attempts to merge. The Kat-SRK love story is way too old-fashioned and fantasy-like, while the Anushka parts are overtly modern and brazen. I believe one cannot cherry pick from a novel like that, taking its theme but leaving out its nuances. Then the story is always going to look half-baked.
The parts with Anushka appealed the most to me, cause there was no real absurdity there. It seemed like a different film, and I found myself very moved in these portions.
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November 17, 2012 at 6:18 AM
SRK’s kiss story ? JTHJ demanded it!
New Delhi,Cinema/Showbiz, Fri, 16 Nov 2012IANS
inShare
New Delhi, Nov 16 (IANS) Shah Rukh Khan had made a rule for himself ? never kiss on screen, but he has made an exception for Yash Chopra’s “Jab Tak Hai Jaan” (JTHJ). The superstar says he was “forced” to kiss this time, and says it was only a demand of the script.
“I had a couple of rules actually ? that I won’t ride a horse and I won’t kiss. Both are cumbersome. I don’t know how to do both on screen,” Shah Rukh said at the Hindustan Times Leadership Summit 2012 here Friday.
Ever since the release of Yash Chopra’s directorial JTHJ Tuesday, social networking platforms have been abuzz about the kiss scene between Shah Rukh and Katrina Kaif. So, moderator Vir Sanghvi, on behalf of Twitterati, asked SRK: How come he kissed this time!
“I will be very honest. Adi (Aditya Chopra), Yash ji and Katrina, and I say this with all humility and thankfulness to them, that they knew I was awkward, I had issues and I am a very easy actor to work with. They are like my family and they said, ‘You don’t have to do this’ and then they got together and they forced me and then even paid me for it.”
“So… when heroines say that ‘I wore a bikini because the story demanded me to’, I did it (the kiss) because the story demanded it. Believe me or don’t believe it,” said the 47?year?old actor, who has been in showbiz for over two decades.
Shah Rukh feels doing something as intimate as a kiss on screen, is mechanical.
“It is very mechanical with 100 people telling you what to do. It’s very odd. I don’t even do photoshoots with heroines if it is not for my film and that is also rude, but I don’t want to waste anyone’s time. I find it very awkward taking my shirt off and posing. I can do it in character for film,” he said.
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November 17, 2012 at 9:44 AM
MUMBAI, collections will be zero for half of saturday and full sunday.
Wave Cinema if closed dont know what will be impact,
But i guess Box Office might take step back, as the late politician is known to be closed to bollywood fraternity,
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November 17, 2012 at 10:06 AM
I’ve seen people appreciate cinema like Rowdy Rathore and ETT for their crowd-friendly, masala elements while dissing JTHJ completely. After coming back from Yash Chopra’s last film, I can’t help but feel sorry for poor SRK (whom I had stopped liking long back) and wonder what makes both his onscreen and offscreen persona such a turnoff for people who attack him unnecessarily (their attacks reflecting sadistic glee on many occasions). Point is, if ETT and RR can be enjoyed with a dont-bring-your-brains kind of expectations, why cant this SRK starrer be appreciated for its worth.
It’s not perfect; in fact it is far from being one, with sequences bordering on the ludicrous to the impossible-to-digest, but I enjoyed watching it despite its flaws. There’s something about the film that stays with you – probably it has something to do with Yash Chopra’s magic touch that he so effortlessly inculcates in every film of his. Give him a weak story and a bad screenplay, yet he’d do something with the resources that he’d end up making a film with a lot of heart. and that’s what JTHJ is. A vintage SRK-Chopra romance. Stay away if you dont like this genre. It will put you off to sleep. Yet for those who still believe in the ‘true love stands the test of time’ dictum, this might just be the film you’ve been looking for in the era of Yo-generation’s Cocktails and Student of the Years and what not.
I personally liked it. Good to see SRK back in his romantic avatar and doing a good job in the film. This is what he should be doing rather than playing cocky Dons and clueless superheros
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November 17, 2012 at 10:26 AM
Tony- I don’t know who this comment is meant for- but I walked out of RR and I didn’t watch ETT- and I happen to appreciate most of the SRK-Chopra romances from DDLJ to Veer-Zaara. However I still did not like JTHJ in the least. Replacing Kajol with Katrina and trying so hard to add a ‘modern’ aspect to the story just made me feel like they were descerating their own legacy.
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November 17, 2012 at 10:28 AM
Tony– your comment seems to have the ‘spot’ right away–
Was revisiting but may hav to opine soon lol
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November 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM
I liked ETT. As I had no expectations from it, I was not disappointed. The last SRK YRF flick I liked was DDLJ,.
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November 17, 2012 at 10:37 AM
Ami,
wasnt referring to you or anyone at SS at all ( i think most people here are quite unbiased and balanced in their opinions, including you), but the general thoughts at work when an SRK film is involved.
on the film, i dnt think the film was trying to be a modern attempt at anything (unless u talk about the awkward kisses). it worked for me, one of the reasos being it was made by a man who let his emotions do the talking that reflected in his films, rather than adding modern / commercial elements to garner the extra crores
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November 17, 2012 at 11:00 AM
The kisses were tremendously awkward, but I’m actually referring to Anushka’s character- I liked her performance the best of all three leads, but her ‘romance’ with SRK was so silly and one-sided, and the entire track was pretty pointless and added very little to the overall story of the film.
It’s funny that you say this: “it worked for me, one of the reasos being it was made by a man who let his emotions do the talking that reflected in his films, rather than adding modern / commercial elements to garner the extra crores”
because I do feel like they just shoehorned her in as a modern/ commercial element to garner the extra crores. From her introductory bikini shot to her constant dialouges about sex and modernity, everything about Akira felt so hollow and gratituous to me.
And the casting of Katrina, as well as the way she was presented in the film, were nothing but commercial choices IMO.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:07 AM
You may be right about Anushka – frankly i never paid enough attention to her dialogues, nor did mind her viewpoints. everyone’s entitled to a POV in democracy. oops.. 🙂 lol
Agree about Katrina though. she was grossly ineffective, and easily the worst thing about it
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November 17, 2012 at 11:08 AM
BTW- I’m not trying to argue with your take on the film, I can see where you are coming from, and your review does seem extremely reasonable to me. But I also do not think that you have to be a biased SRK hater in order to find this film awful: after all, it does have a downright ridiculous plot, a leading man who is a little too old to be reprising his loverboy role for the nth time, a leading lady who redefines insipid and a spirited supporting actress who is limited by a caricaturish role.
Some people can overlook all of these flaws and embrace the nostalgic YRF magic, some people cannot look past these glaring faults, and end up loathing the film. Both view points seem valid to me.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:17 AM
You make a fair point, and the deft YC touches are probably what I chose to embrace rather than looking for the flaws people keep mentioning of. I didnt mind SRK at all – thought he was pretty effective ; in certain scenes he delivered lines like no other actor could. My problem with him was he looked a little too old in the first half (still wondering why Katrina fell for him with those wrinkles and saggy skin – should have kept the beard throughout).
and with a better actress instead of katrina the film could’ve turned out to be much better IMO..
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November 17, 2012 at 8:27 PM
Ami, i am not sure if u have seen it but an excellent SRK romantic film is “Kabhi Haa Kabhi Naa” (this is from SRK’s younger days and of course it is not by YRF. It is directed by Kundan Shah who made that excellent comedy Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron)
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November 17, 2012 at 10:55 AM
I don’t know what to believe.
-It’s an old fashioned love story and very outdated, from a senile man
or – it is trying hard to be modern
THis is not aimed at anyone’s comment, just a summary of all the negative reviews.
THank you Tony for a well balanced review.
From people I know this is exactly what they say – it isn’t perfect, lots of loopholes – yet there is something one takes back , and remembers the film afterwards – which can’t be said for most films, forgotten the moment you proceed to the next thing you have to do.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:20 AM
Great to know ur thoughts Tony, insightful as always. Iska matlab film itni buri bhi nahi hai, kamsekam SOS se to behtar hogi. ETT was boring but i liked RR and saw it twice in the theatre (would say that u can’t have a direct comparison between JTHJ and RR since they belong to different ‘landscapes’ altogether). Having said that RR was no high-art and I far prefer Akki’s own Mohra to it
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November 17, 2012 at 10:11 AM
thats a succinct and sensible take on JTHJ, Tony^
Well expressed and u have put it into the context rightly…
Perhaps the only comment apart from sandyi which seems ‘balanced’ on JTHJ
Watched JTHJ myself yesterday and though full of flaws/loopholes/cliches (which weren’t unexpected) trying to explain it to most here seems useless since closed/biased/inexperienced minds can be changed only upto a point 😉
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November 17, 2012 at 10:20 AM
alex,
this in a way brings back nostalgic memories of real hindi film romances, those that dont believe in practicalities and moving ahead with time.. this is what Yash Chopra cinema signifies and what he revels in. this film should be enjoyed as a movie – not something that should be rejected on the basis of its theme that is not “real”.
and must say, I liked SRK here despite his looks in the first half. i think he’s still got that easy charm. preferred him to both his leading ladies
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November 17, 2012 at 10:27 AM
Agree with both points Tony
May jot down some randomness on it too /was a bit lazy n ‘spent’ from a late viewing ..
As I said earlier –srk would be the last person to fail this film
As for box office -it may not be a monster, but it wont underperform either ..
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November 17, 2012 at 10:49 AM
Baradwaj Rangan, on JTHJ.
At first, we think it’s empty hero-giri. Samar (Shah Rukh Khan), a classic loner, is not with the others of his bomb-defusing team, one of whom struggles to make sense of the tangle of wires in an explosive device at a Leh marketplace. Samar rides in on his motorbike alone, a little later, and when he gets to work, an onlooker remarks that he will not wear a bomb suit. After all, he hasn’t worn one while defusing close to 100 bombs thus far – a record, which fetches him the title The Man who Cannot Die. More remarks follow that build Samar up, in our eyes, as some sort of outrageous superhero. The onlooker says, “Iski aankhon mein aaj tak maut ka dar nahin dekha,” that he’s never seen in Samar’s eyes the fear of death, and he adds that Samar walks up to explosive devices as if walking into a girlfriend’s arms. It all seems to be little but empty hero-giri, the kind of image-stoking, ego-massaging scenario that every big star writes into his contract.
But slowly we see that Samar is no reckless hero, that he has a death wish, that he’s really The Man who Wants to Die. For love, naturally. Yash Chopra’s Jab Tak Hai Jaan (co-written by Aditya Chopra) is something of a companion piece to Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi (which the younger Chopra directed). Here too, we’re treated to two flavours of Shah Rukh Khan – one silent and withdrawn, one the exuberant embodiment of life itself. Here too, we have Anushka Sharma, playing a Discovery Channel filmmaker named Akira, torn between these two personas – except that, this time, she falls for the introvert. And here too, the big guy up in the sky plays a pivotal part. This time, though, it’s a different god, one who hangs on a crucifix and whom Samar refers to as Sir Jesus. In other words, we’re watching Christ Ne Bana Di Jodi, which could be the title of the translation of Graham Greene’s novel The End of the Affair.
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November 17, 2012 at 10:52 AM
ROFL!!!
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November 17, 2012 at 11:02 AM
This has got to be THE best line written about JTHJ:
“And what can we say of Kaif? She’s staggeringly ineffective, and she gets countless close-ups to offer us repeated proof of the fact. How can such a heavy role be entrusted to someone so lifeless in front of the camera? She’s like a little girl with an Easy-Bake Oven trying to manufacture loaves for multitudes gathered on a mountaintop. That’s a miracle beyond even Sir Jesus.”
😀 😛 🙂
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November 17, 2012 at 11:06 AM
NIce review there by BR. I was waiting for it. The negatives are exactly what most balanced reviewers have been saying.
@Munna
He thinks there is subtlety in the film 😉 – maybe too much.
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November 17, 2012 at 2:27 PM
Haha…I saw “Moonrise Kingdom” yesterday. Quite an unrealistic love story of two 12 year old kids. But I think the Love Story depicted was far better than any love story we have seen in Bollywood in last 2-3 years 🙂
ps – There were more comments in that thread after the subtlety comment.
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November 17, 2012 at 2:36 PM
>Quite unrealistic love story of two 12 year old kids. But I think the Love Story depicted was far better than any love story we have seen in Bollywood in last 2-3 years
As I said, personal tastes is what we seem to be discussing here.
*This* may be your taste, I’m sure I’d be getting impatient with two twelve year olds getting subtle about their ‘love’ LOL!!!
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November 17, 2012 at 4:17 PM
It is not exactly taste. It is matter of making a movie well made, within whatever framework you are working in. Genres where I have issue(s) or I cannot watch are Zombies and slashers (Though I have seen many).
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November 17, 2012 at 3:45 PM
Ha! True!
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November 17, 2012 at 4:16 PM
>There were more comments in that thread after the subtlety comment.
Regarding subtlety? All I found was;
>It’s all very well to be subtle and subdued, but when God worms his way into a love affair between a poor boy and a rich girl, we expect upheavals of Biblical proportions. After a while, the low-key nature of the happenings begin to lull us into a stupor.
The last bit is what I mentioned about subtlety being boring earlier on. There are people who *have* found the proceedings boring.
If you saw anything more about subtlety in his writing, please could you point it out?
What follows this is more review. There are things he spoke positively about and other things negatively (which were exactly
what everybody with a balanced review have been saying).
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November 17, 2012 at 4:21 PM
Romance(with Drama) needs to be subtle (Unlike say romance of Twilight). Action is going to be loud. My point is when you are depiciting regular romance, you need to be more realistic than other genres.
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November 17, 2012 at 4:32 PM
Are we talking about subtlety or realistic romnce (what is that?)?
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November 17, 2012 at 12:06 PM
fantastic read as always…
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November 17, 2012 at 6:44 PM
endlessness…..rofl! hilarious as usual.
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November 17, 2012 at 10:15 PM
“It all seems to be little but empty hero-giri, the kind of image-stoking, ego-massaging scenario that every big star writes into his contract.”
writes into his contract…lol…for writing these kind of nonsense his national award should be taken back from him…
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November 18, 2012 at 3:40 AM
I think he said this to set the stage for what followed;
>But slowly we see that Samar is no reckless hero, that he has a death wish, that he’s really The Man who Wants to Die.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:03 AM
“This time, though, it’s a different god, one who hangs on a crucifix and whom Samar refers to as Sir Jesus. In other words, we’re watching Christ Ne Bana Di Jodi, which could be the title of the translation of Graham Greene’s novel The End of the Affair.”
“But most puzzlingly, we’re never clued in to why this Punjabi girl worships at the altar of Jesus. We are all free to choose our own deliverers, of course, but wouldn’t it have helped to show how this bond was forged in the first place? (The novel’s Catholic guilt, on the other hand, is instantly understandable.) All we see is Meera transacting with Sir Jesus: “Give me this, and I’ll give up that.” It sounds like child’s play, not a deep-rooted belief system.”
My only thing is: anything is possible, but it has to look plausible and explained.
And here i would like to expand, further from this movie, this is my fear in most movies
1) Wedding takes place in churches this days
2) brides will wear white color catholic/chrsitian gown
3) and now this Kat worshipping Jesus.
I have nothing against this or any community or religion, but we see that this bonds are not explained or established, which is fearful as they promote A different religion through the avatars of the greatest superstars of this country.
I feel if a character does something, which is unusual for a reasonable man, it has to be explained, and made to look plausible.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:14 AM
>which is fearful as they promote A different religion through the avatars of the greatest superstars of this country.
What are you fearful of? That people will start worshipping a different God?
You keep posting disclaimers, but express sentiments which provoke me to say exactly what I remarked earlier.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:30 AM
We agree to disagree Miss ? As u are reading political language, while i am speaking strictly cinematic language, politics is not my field, nor i am expert there.
You are innocently misinterpreting religion and politics at blog about cinema, review of a movie, comment on movies in different perspective.
(but just for am explaining, what u are misinterpreting)
1) I posted a quote of review for non explanation of concept.
2) I spoke about how scenes should be contructed.
3) i spoke unviersally of a tendency of non explaination of the following of a different religion
4) i fear of such lousy filmmaking!!
5) fearful word can mean different things
6) read it conjointly with above, and it shall take a cinematic color in the language of interpretation.
I am least concerned with what people will follow, that is solemn choice of an individual. The Constitution of this Country bestows that right to an individual.
And yeah i have a religion, and this is called “Secular”.
ps: I always put disclaimers 😉
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November 17, 2012 at 1:45 PM
Yeah. OK. Good write up about…(?)
It’s not about the point under discussion. Which is;
> they promote A different religion through the avatars of the greatest superstars of this country.
Note: I’ve not quoted the word ‘fear’.
Justify your statement “promotion of a different religion” – and the mention of this concept and analysis from what you saw in the film….this promotion.
Most others have left it at – why is a hindu praying to Jesus?
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November 18, 2012 at 5:20 AM
Listen this is turning in to a merry go round and a frivolous set of inquiries, ofcourse u have a right to ur interpretation of my statement, dont mind that.
I was never on a film, but only on a trend. It’s a trend that is fearful as it is turning up films which are more and more clueless in scripting and accepting it as way of life. Anything unsual regarding faith of a character should be explained.
That’s all, u are reading to much between the lines, just a normal innocent film reading and trending assumes political anecdotes for u.
Read it as a whole, in its true spirit and object.
I rest it there… as i said one religion or another doesnt matter to me, that’s an individual’s choice, but choice has to look plausible, and reasonable, without that promotion appears void.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:05 AM
@tony,
the point made by you about the movie is echoed in Rangan’s views. he says
” It is perhaps a testament to Yash Chopra that he shepherds us past this material without making it look entirely ludicrous. Jab Tak Hai Jaan is a sturdy instruction manual on how to handle melodrama in the classiest possible fashion. None of Chopra’s earlier romances show this hushed restraint, this refusal to punch up the proceedings with thunder and lightning – the film could be unfolding in a cathedra”
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November 17, 2012 at 11:10 AM
yeah rooney. Dont think YC has ever been this restrained, not even during Kabhi Kabhi n Silsila. Hardly a portion that gets loud
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November 17, 2012 at 11:16 AM
Good Point by Rangan – And the end is hugely unsatisfying, a cheat. It does not warrant the sufferings that came before, as it seems to hinge on a simple change of heart. After investing three-plus hours in a love story, we’re left with an abject anticlimax.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:18 AM
*Change of heart* is no simple thing.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:48 AM
Satyam-in the interest of ‘space’ u may delete the above
That’s what happens when u type half-awake and from your phone–the ‘copy paste repetition’
Satyam-u may delete the above one
Not anything special but important to counter the excessive negativity here on JTHJ —
JTHJ-vol1-symbolic & literal demise of era(s)
Not many /any films of recent times maybe associated with the end of an era literally and figuratively
Here we have
The last film by yash chopra
If his confident insistence of this being his last film wasn’t enough, fate had it that he actually died to ensure that
Although the other dominant collaborator had figuratively died as the ‘king’ in ra-one, here this alter-ego-ish definitive screen profile aka raj/Rahul died by the end of the first half (as mentioned
by me earlier!)
And just before the movie marches towards its first weekend, hear that gal Thackeray dies( also closing theatres in Bombay as an effect)
JTHJ prologue
Does a film of this ‘calibre’(or lack of it) deserve a ‘commentary’ as such-no !! But given the significance of these changing patterns and trends ESP wth the stature of those involved-maybe yes.
Setting
Overseas multiplex -house full -no surprise !
Family crowd with liberal sprinkling of giggling girls
I just asked the ticket gal out of curiousity–will ‘son of sardar’ be ever released here–she looked surprised and asked back–’son of who?’-I left it there …
Issues/faults
Can’t add more to what many ‘auteurs’ have already said /will keep adding–but to be short–cliched, hackneyed, conveniently random storyline with multiple loopholes, not much connect to reality, so on
Relevance
How many of these issues are actually relevant to this genre and yash chopras world of films -one starts thinking –even then, the issues are too much to digest but they are not really that damning in the overall tone n concept n genre of this film
Battle of the halves-1st vs 2nd
The Lacklustre first half set me thinking & even trying to stay engaged at places though it had its moments…
But it’s more towards the equally flawed second half, then one sensed what yash chopra wanted to day here-what the hell brought him out of retirement for a final hurray ..
Maybe it was too little, too late-but one can’t deny that there were trailers galore both from yash and srk of what they are/were !
Performances of the lead team were the highlight that saved this film from further decline
And saved means it will take this film to successful status at box office (@ the least)
SRK
was literally sleepwalking on autopilot mode in the first half
He looked a shadow of his raj/Rahul persona and seemed to be attempting a tribute /parody of his successful turns for a stage show or some such congratulatory exercise
Never before has srk looked so tired, spent and struggling to keep pace with the surroundings. In ishq Shava, his valiant efforts prevented a disgrace & he was reasonable but the difference showed.
SRK in the second half–seemed to somehow conjure that last bit of srk-ism to strike back-& literally save this film and his per fiancé from the pits–so remarkable was this recovery that even I can’t totally disagree with bachchan that this was the best srk since swades.
Unlike bachchan though, I found multiple issues with srk even in the second half, but in the overall context will give them a miss.
Katrina : when even katrina hating girls tell u that katrina looked gorgeous here, one needs no further endorsement.
Her main achievement here was-
She understood the ‘ethos’ of a yashraj heroine-sober, graceful, alluring yet dignified and stuck to it –ie she didn’t try to hit the ball out of the park and making a mockery of herself ..
Also –she didn’t try to ‘compete’ with the other two performers with superior acting skills and so looked less awkward
Anushka –her role was much ‘bigger’ & significant than I thought
Had all the punch lines, crowd pleasing elements and she delivered them with panache & confidence
One does get irritated by anushkas ‘hey souldier: I won’t stop loving /stalking you’ routine after a while but she more than makes up with
‘I don’t wanna a buddy hug–I demand a full blown lip kiss’ & after getting one on the forehead –complaining–’was that a kiss?’
Interactions
Srk-anushka scenes in the second half (only few in total) were truly powerhouse with both talents firing in cylinders
Eg the hangin from the bridge, ‘pre separation’ etc
Srk obviously excelled in the grunge bearded look , half tear in eye about to drop look with the quiver in the voice
Nobody does it better mr khan -even now!!
Katrinas interactions with anushka were natural and she wasn’t trying too much –including in the delectable scene where she closes the door onto the anushka outside (b4 apparently making out with a memory loss patient!!)
Rahmans songs- sounded better in the movie
The title song about to be picturised in Switzerland was played in the end over a yash chopra montage -people waited till the end to watch it fully though ..(mostly except us)
The issue of lack of ‘realism’ & ‘practicality’
One finds many an average educated person coming out with multiple bullet points of the glorious loop holes /believability issues
Those people actually need to be taken to a corner and asked in no uncertain terms-what did U come in expecting in a yash chopra movie? We’re u imbeciles or are u unaware of Bollywood traditions/ ‘history’–as some of my co-viewers were (which is why they could be pardoned but not those other hypersmart characters!)
Spiritual /philosophical tinge
The movie does meander ultimately into an ‘abstract’ spiritual/Philosophical take on a Bollywood romance
Which was noteworthy and creditable
Alas this premise was diluted for many, by cliched treatment, convenient alternate memory loss (& recovery) & so on
But will the majority see beyond those superficial errors -partly imo
The malaise of the ‘distractable’ audience
Who doesn’t believe in context. They insist in reason in a yash chopra film but don’t in a ‘different edgy’ TDKR (talash remains to be seen closer home soon!)
So the terms of comparison and assessment change as per the film/subject in question
Don’t we assess a children’s film as a children’s film and a porn film as that ? So why can they ignore those in a Bol bachchan or a rowdy rathore etc but not here
As for Hollywood -wont even go there since fr some even criticising them on even ground seems blasphemous .
We alre also taking abut an audience who notice just the red bikini in deepikas performance in cocktail, who just see the ‘regressiveness’ of Diana pantys character and so on and miss the whole boat of the ‘romance’ in the central premise
Though I now agree with Amy’s point and surprise over a mini skirted katrina being so ‘wide-eyed/unaware’ of the big bad world outside in London
Though that tunnel part wasn’t bad and ishq Shava was filmed well–been to similar ones so its not ‘unbelievable’
So here j have the criticisms of bomb disposal practicality, rich-poor believability and so on..
The problem is that they are barking up the wrong tree and in the
wrong film /genre-due to a combination of bias, ignorance, inexperience and plain lack of integrity while assessing films as per their stated/intended genre
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November 17, 2012 at 1:55 PM
Can you simplify it into some 10 lines? Like
Story good
SRK Very good.
Katrina ho hum
Anushka Screechy sister of Karishma
Music. dull
Direction haphazard
Villain Ajay Devgn
Who saved the film? Jesus or SRK?
Etc. Etc.
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November 17, 2012 at 2:37 PM
LOL!!
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November 17, 2012 at 12:05 PM
JTHJ-vol2- the ‘abstract pact with God!’
Each of the three lead characters seem to have a certain ‘pact with god!!’
Righty or wrongly —
Initiated by katrina who seems to believe in a ‘give & take’ deal with god (Jesus for technical terms here!)
But some would now go into a tangent arguing why not a pact in a temple and why the heck in a church!
Those have been referred to anya for treatment of their distractable ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity syndome) of going off into tangents Oblivious of the main theme ..
Unlike in most such films–
The ‘villain’ isn’t a character or baddie or even a circumstance
It is an attitude, a thought process, a superstition sort of stuff
This juxtaposes into further such ‘pacts’ each by srk and anushka as well (of Stalking poor srk lol)
This relatively abstract theme premise makes me wonder about the ‘distractable ADHD crowd’–they obviously will be on a wrong lyre by the time the point is made–this may reflect in the overall box office but it is credible that somebody had the guts to try this in a mainstream film–though the multiple monster cliches/errors/ issues do dilute all this ‘purity’ somewhat …
The fact that even stalwarts like Utkal uncle missed it hook-line-sinker isn’t a good sign for the ‘normal audience’ who will be left
Ogling/complaining about anushkas bikini in Kashmir act or katrinas multiple kisses or SRKs ‘good Samaritan bomb disposal DIY’ jobs in London
In other words–it’s a case of missing the whole point yourselves and then blaming the other person for relative trivialities 😉
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November 17, 2012 at 6:55 PM
lesser mortals cannot begin to understand the depth and complexity of material as multilayered as cocktail and jthj. mango people are not as evolved and clued in to life as you; and that’s a cross you have to bear.
just a tip. if you are arguing in the same breath that this ‘consciously constructed project’ is not an underperformer at 125 or so that it’s probably going to make, it makes it very hard to take you seriously at all (not that many on this blog will make that mistake anyway)
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November 17, 2012 at 7:05 PM
Thanx anya for that compliment and for that tip ha
The cost of jthj is lower than such films and overseas returns disprortionately higher than the domestic reported figures here.
S while 100 crores won’t be a flop, it will need atleast 125 to be somewhat respectable
And in my books–less than 150 will be a relative underperformer–u r right!
But hey–unlike some other custodians of their idols -that’s none of my concern–since the moolah wasn’t coming into my pocket anyways …
It’s a bit strange how a similar black n white stand is difficult for some here !
Ps: ROFL sanjana at your short take —
“Story good
SRK Very good.
Katrina ho hum
Anushka Screechy sister of Karishma
Music. dull
Direction haphazard
Villain Ajay Devgn”
Amy won’t be happy being compared to screecho karisma 🙂
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November 17, 2012 at 12:09 PM
It’s bad luck for both films that with Thackeray’s death the Bombay box office will be hit in a big way. It will be worse for JTHJ of course because SOS’s strength areas are really in the North. The larger problem for both films is that in 2 weeks there’s another major release. Even otherwise these days once you lose out on the gross in the initial period it’s very hard to make it up later.
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November 17, 2012 at 12:21 PM
and not only the multiplex being close, i found many of my friends from mumbai behaving in two senses
1) grief and loss
2) fear
not good time for business.
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November 17, 2012 at 12:33 PM
true, both will at-least loose 5 cr……but there is no comp. i guess till 30th when T releases so……
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November 17, 2012 at 12:33 PM
btw, rangan’s one line abt jthj had me in splits “Christ ne bana di jodi…” ROFL
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November 17, 2012 at 12:38 PM
Satyam: apart from Bandra, Dadar, Parel, I think most other parts of Bombay are pretty normal (based on what I’m seeing on TV and what people I know are saying). I don’t think the mall-based multiplexes are going to be affected beyond a few shows this Saturday or Sunday.
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November 17, 2012 at 12:41 PM
@qalander bhai, nope this says things are diff, it quotes on PVR, which has couple of mall based multiplexes.
With emotions running high following Shiv Sena supremo Bal Thackeray’s death, cinema house owners in the city have decided to keep the theatres closed tonight and tomorrow for security reasons.
Film screenings in city theatres were cancelled today as soon as the news of Sena chief’s demise spread.
“For the time being, we have cancelled all the shows in Mumbai. We will decide about running the shows tomorrow after assessing the situation, an official of PVR cinemas said.
Manoj Desai, owner of Gaiety, Galaxy and Maratha Mandir said, “Yes, we have cancelled all the shows from 6 pm today till tomorrow, as we fear that anything might happen tomorrow. We don’t want to cause any trouble. From Monday, we might run it normally.”
Girish Wankhede, deputy GM-Corporate Communications and Public Relations of Cinemax said, “The moment we heard the news, we cancelled all the shows for today and tomorrow across Maharashtra. We have around 56 screens in the state. We have given refund of the tickets.”
Ashish Saxena, Chief Operating Officer- Big Cinema “For today we have suspended all the shows and also advance bookings. We will decide upon tomorrow depending upon the inputs provided by the local police.”
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/bal-thackeray-dies-shiv-sena-fear-forces-closure-of-mumbai-film-shows/1032495/
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November 17, 2012 at 1:43 PM
Just wait till tomorrow. People from all parts of Maharashtra are coming and the police advisory is out not to use western express highway and asking people not to step out of homes unless there is an emergency.
These 2 movies will loose some crores and it reiterates that there will always be uncertainty in life and business. But other parts of India will not be affected i any way and the show will go on.
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November 17, 2012 at 6:18 PM
Thanx for your live telecast from Bombay, reporter sanjana!
Btw RIP Thackeray
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November 19, 2012 at 1:02 AM
In terms of the media/public reacxtion, beyond all the shameful encomiums to Thackeray, testifying to the continuing degradation of Indian political discourse, what we also see is the triumph of cliche (and hence the death of thought): the same language, with perhaps occasional adjective changes, is used to describe anybody and everybody, be it Ambedkar or Thackeray, almost as if the convention of marking someone’s death has overtaken the reality of the kind of life lived (I would have thought no-one needed reminding of the sort of public life Thackeray lived: I could begin any number of ways — with his calls to strip Muslims of voting rights, his admiration of Hitler, his calls for Kashmiri women to be raped, his incitement of pogroms, his important contribution in “devolving” Bombay from India’s premier city into a more cramped, provincial city — but I wouldn’t know where to end). I am reminded of sports commentary, where a number of commentators will say things like “beautiful stroke” for a slog sweep, a classic cover drive, or a lofted inside-out shot — they are most interested in the fact that the shot has yielded four runs, and seem to lack the vocabulary or imagination for a response that doesn’t consist of recycling words they have heard other commentators use.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:31 AM
great comment Qalandar, agree completely..
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November 17, 2012 at 7:35 PM
Famous Sholay dialogue is relevant.
Itna sannata kyon?
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November 17, 2012 at 7:42 PM
Haha sanjana
What’s the live status in Bombay rite now-any disturbance post Thackeray death..
Must be v early morning now ?
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November 18, 2012 at 2:07 AM
I’m also of the opinion that a very popular movie in the theatre is never much affected at any time, and people flock back to see it in no time. However, if the movie is decent, but not unmissable, it is more vulnerable to external factors.
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November 18, 2012 at 3:36 AM
I think a weekend lost is a heavy loss for popular or unpopular films. This could get carried to some extent on Monday when people are cautious about venturing out.
I read somewhere Pune is also closing its cinemas this weekend.
Of course all this loss is nothing to the loss suffered by wage earners and those trying to earn a living from their daily efforts. Feel sad for them.
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November 18, 2012 at 5:14 AM
Agree Oldgold -the first weekend lost can be significant –shoul be factored in (though not used as an excuse like some do here)
Oldgold –u are from pune originally and sanjana from bombay–why don’t u two meet up 😉
Ps: hope things are quiet n safe in bombay–interestingly havent seen any RIP to Thackeray
Ok he was a human being @ the end of the day –everyone has controversies
RIP Bal Thackeray
(know even this can be politically incorrect here but to heck with political correctness -never cared for it)
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November 19, 2012 at 3:55 AM
You want a man to ‘Rest in Peace’ after he turned lives of multitudes of people into horrifying nighmares with no peace at all? All I can say is;
-if there is life after death – RIP (reflect in peace)
-if there is reincarnatrion – be reborn as a muslim (in India) 😉
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November 19, 2012 at 4:01 AM
…..in Bihar (later migrating to Bombay).
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November 19, 2012 at 6:52 AM
-if there is reincarnatrion – all the Sickularists should reborn in Pakistan and Saudi …..aatey- daal ka bhav tab pata chalega inn logo ko !!
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November 19, 2012 at 7:17 AM
aapne tau tu tu main main shuru kar di.
Abhi tau main jeevit hoon.
Pakistan aur Saudi mein secular hone ki aavashyakta hi nahin padegi. Haan terrorist nahin banungi.
And I suspect our definitions of secularism is very different. Mine is the long forgotten definition, which doesn’t say ‘no religion’ like in the US.
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November 17, 2012 at 12:17 PM
JTHJ vol3- addendum
Audience reaction–
Very positive it seemed
A European srk fan girl loved it but that’s not valid!
Another Indian hyper rational girl who loves raping Bollywood films–shockingly declared that she loved the ‘secret pact angle’
To add to the shock(!) she gave 9.5 out of ten for JTHJ (she considers beneath her dignity to rate most Bollywood films)
Inanities–
” if I kiss you, will u slap me?”
Now this is the level this film stooped to!
And after doing the ‘job’, srk triumphantly declares that he hasn’t been slapped!
If there enough in the rest of the film to ‘salvage’ this foolishness-probably yes..
SRK Photo-ops
The one on his return to London with the hat n stubble was ace I thought
Also portions wth anushka in the second half were vintage srk
Anushka and the kiss
Now I know how correct Amy’s casting was and why she is so angry with this film
C’mon Amy-u got a great role and u nailed it !!
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November 17, 2012 at 12:38 PM
JTHJ–the unfilmed title song–
Dedicated to the entire spoof team —
anya, amy, Oldgold, sanjana, satyam (producer)
for tolerating my awkwardness , obscenities and above all–
Cooperating and being ‘proactive’ in all those difficult scenes and intimate ones as well –and thanx for sanjana for all those retakes in the name of ‘perfection’
Enjoy the unfilmed song which will be played in the closing credos
To heck with box office
We have more than got our money’s back and the gals have got more than their pound of… ( ok let’s stop there ) 🙂
Congrats
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November 17, 2012 at 1:50 PM
Rating: ***
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/movie-review-jab-tak-hai-jaan/1/229422.html
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November 17, 2012 at 1:52 PM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan’ review: Watch out for Shah Rukh and his consummate acting!
http://zeenews.india.com/entertainment/movies/jab-tak-hai-jaan-review-watch-out-for-shah-rukh-and-his-consummate-acting_122689.htm
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November 17, 2012 at 1:53 PM
And yet it’s not her film. Or even Yash Chopra’s, really. Jab Tak Hai Jaan is all Shah Rukh, all the time. His character seems larger than the film, and Khan himself is in fine form even when the script deserves far less. There are times he seems out of place, certainly, but these are made up for by times where he grounds the narrative with one glare, with one scowl, with one kiss. The dude abides.
http://www.rediff.com/movies/review/review-jab-tak-hai-jaan-is-all-about-shah-rukh-khan/20121113.htm
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November 17, 2012 at 1:55 PM
Only Yash Chopra could make heartache so attractive and ennobling that his characters wear it like a badge of honor.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Reviews/Jab-Tak-Hai-Jaan-review-by-Anupama-Chopra/Article1-958850.aspx
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November 17, 2012 at 2:57 PM
SRK may work with Abbas-Mustan once again….
http://khabar.ndtv.com/video/show/news/255102
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November 17, 2012 at 5:26 PM
B rangans review on JTHJ
just read bits-it’s better than some others he has written recentl on Bollywood films..
In terms of wit, creative writing, smart alecky deconstructions- he is obviously v v good as expected
And he will be obvious ‘fantastic read’ for most
But somethings beginning to grate about rangan —
The same old rapping of mainstream Bollywood films in the name of a ‘review’
C’mon is there ANY film he really liked in the last year or so?
Barring a few don’t remember any!
Yes remember the revolutionary auteristic experiment called Delhi belly wherein rangan lay prostate to anything n everything there (including a mention flog blowjob-he saw a grand auteuristism there!)
But here he atleast shows some rare positivity
I myself have numerous issues wit this film
But the ‘tone’ of criticism should be different!
old habits did hard–before we know rangan slides in this–
“How can such a heavy role be entrusted to someone so lifeless in front of the camera”
So rangan feels that all the folks who like watching is on screen who are more than the combined population of the place he probably comes from –are all fools/imbeciles
Agree that Kats acting ability is nothing much to write home about but this seems a pattern–
Every new release–
Show off your writing skills; rip apart a film makers efforts, pat yourselves on the back and get an auto-certificate of intellectual masturbatory self congratulation
My basic questions to rangan–
A) if he finds Bollywood or other mainstream Indian films so bad (>99% films) why the hell is he in this job??
B) more than those films or those makers–one feels sorry for the sorry existence of folks like rangan who have to bear crap downright night n day —
Why doesn’t he stop reviewing such films?
C) it’s obvious that he doesn’t get this brand of cinema
The Hollywood ones he won’t dare to rip apart like this of similar genres
But why is he unleashing himself onto stuff he doesn’t like to enjoy or understand ?
D) this is NOT about JTHJ but a pattern one sees after each n every Bollywood release !
If he needs creative writing subjects -he can get others
E) folks like him still haven’t understood that he has to give a review for other folks -not in such a sorry state & desperate state of affairs as him and not having to do something he hates 99percent of the time
F) so rangan get a life
And don’t u talk of Katrina kaif or deepika or Diana or the ill
Go back to mrs rangan waiting at home like a good boy
Eat her sambar dosa and put your kids to bed!
And spare us your interpretations of stuff uve no idea or interest in !
If someone knows his blog-plz post this there in my behalf
Thanks 😉
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November 17, 2012 at 7:10 PM
Are you typing all these from your mobile?
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November 17, 2012 at 7:13 PM
@ Munna: That’swhat I wanted to ask Alex…he is typing all this from his mobile!! Sir Jesus Christ!! that’s such a pain-staking effort…!
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November 17, 2012 at 7:17 PM
Ha-Also have my iPad now (always with me!)–depends on where I am on the move & wifi availability
Ps: may /may now have my clothes on me-but iPhone/iPad always
What say Ann
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November 17, 2012 at 7:38 PM
Sir Jesus Christ!!!
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November 17, 2012 at 5:40 PM
Letter to rangan Contd–
This is not a out jthj but a pattern for ages
my suggestion to u–
Go to a nearby church (oops temple) since u had major issues with this point!)
If the dumbo( u )lived outside india –u may not find a temple nearby but anyhow–
Run/beg -find a temple
Confess to your misery of having to review film after film -that u hate!
And for gods sake–quit the job–
Go review something on the indie film movement or start doing the auteur gran rounds and show off your superior skills/tastes there
Why are u spoiling your superior intellect on something u are too good for ?!
And finally, when u r in the temple /church–
Make a pact with god–
That the next time u pour bile/contempt over a bollywood film that u didn’t like-u will abstain from all ‘interaction’ with your nice point wife/Partner (of u have one–ie practice abstinence
U may find that the ‘lifeless Katrina’ any not appear that lifeless to u anymore
Finally go get a life -u superior intellect ! 🙂
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November 17, 2012 at 6:11 PM
This ‘outburst’ is due to a longstanding pattern wherein Rangan and many of his ilk try to act as these ‘heavenly creatures’ looking down upon ‘lowly forms of entertainment’ from time to time!
We all have bad aspects of out of our jobs-but imagine someone having to indulge in junk > 99% time
Either that stuff is actually not ‘junk’ for him or he deserves a life!
Rangan: And when u are in the ‘church’–
Do also ‘pledge’ to review only indie films/ auteruiristic films-
Start with bella tarr…enrol onto auteur Indie grand rounds
& don’t u get seen in this ‘lowly’ company of Bollywood films!!
Ps: from ‘church’ reminds me —
Do say hello to anya –who has been spending her whole day/nite there for some sort of a ‘pact’ 🙂
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November 17, 2012 at 6:51 PM
The difference between Rangan & Satyam
I have spoken earlier as to why Rangan has started to ‘grate’
Satyam on the other hand sounds a more ‘wholesome’ package
Yeah- we all have our pet hates -for eg nothin can make me love housefull, golmaal, SOS -haven’t seen any of them
But there are SOME one likes
Same with Satyam ( I think)
Currently after ETT200& barfi100, Satyam has become a tut cautious of his predictions but still…
There isn’t this blanket contemptuous ‘looking down’ upon lowly forms of entertainment
With Rangan —
It’s as If someone claims to have done harwards business school and then settles down to help out his family betelnut (think the word is Gutka) local shop!
Who the bl..dy heck is forcing u to watch these lowly films
Think the next time u find Katrina lifeless –u will be forced abstinence with mrs Rangan !
If still u don’t improve — a ‘deprived’ Kareena will be unleashed onto Rangan !! Haha
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November 17, 2012 at 7:39 PM
Why do you read Rangan’s reviews? You ask him not to review BW movies. He may ask you not to view his reviews.
I stopped reading Khallid’s reviews.
And also Raja Sen’s.
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November 18, 2012 at 2:03 AM
excellent point. he is paid to watch movies and write what he felt about them. it’s his job. if people think he is an ignorant idiot who is just not indian enough to appreciate lame shit released every week in name of entertaining commercial indian cinema, why bother to read?
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November 17, 2012 at 11:10 PM
@ AA Please read Rangan’s review completely before commenting:)
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November 18, 2012 at 4:35 AM
@ sheetal-ok dear have read it now lol
@ anya-“he is paid to watch movies and write what he felt about them. it’s his job”
We know that and there’s nothing ‘criminal’ about what he’s doing
But it does seem sorry and miserable for him and ultimately for the reader.
Ok, if he likes/enjoys even 20-30% of the ‘crap films’ he reviews it is fine
But he sounds like suffering with 99%films he watches–what a pathetic existence
Imagine having to go to work /ward rounds and hating 99.9% of the job!
Also rangan seems over qualified for these films–whats stopping him to do something commensurate with his apparent skills.
After graduating from ‘Harvard’ all a guy does is crib about the workings of some street side two bit chip shops -he’s not doing himself or their shops a favour!
Plus in a lighter jest– folks like rangans should go back obediently to his wife/ partner(if he has one), dutifully eat her sambar dosa, put his kids to sleep— deviant ‘complex romances’ don’t seem to come naturally to him
As for not reading him–
It’s rangan who is the ‘professional national award winnig reviewer’ –it’s he who shoul be able to stand the test and bear criticism –not the reader! It’s not the ‘fantastic read’ comment Only that he will/should receive.
I didn’t care to say all this about folks like raja sen since the are clearly beyond repair. Liked rangans writings and knowing that he was an ex-IIT-alumni have some respect for him.
So this was just a ‘friendly suggestion’ for a well wished –if he left his career to review films that he hates nearly 100% of te time –not worth it –he does try to compensate by creative writing, visual allegories etc but thats just not ‘reviewing the film’ for the prospective average viewer but treating his own ‘anxiety’ of being an overqualified reviewer struggling to keep up with the subpar material he has to go through. Or else -why not meet his match–go for truly auteuristic stuff…
And folks –we should get over this ‘too good to be criticised dictum’–nobody is that good to get that ‘immuniity’ ESP on anonymous blogs
As for finding Katrina ‘lifeless’–I did suggest that abstinence from his partner (mr/mrs rangan) should ‘cure’ this 🙂
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November 18, 2012 at 9:58 AM
so you love every aspect of your job? must be nice. if you loved crunching numbers but had to deal with shitty companies whose books are not up to date and you had to deal with headache of going thru all mistakes for audit and it was painful, you’ll just quit your job? even though you do enjoy the numbers part? by this reasoning, everybody on the planet should quit their job. lot of people like their work but not all aspects of it. i am sure jthj was not the only film he has watched over the recent time, i am sure he is free to watch and enjoy any other films that he would like to . and it doesn’t sound like he found the process painful. he found sitting through parts of it painful but seems to enjoy dissecting and analyzing the film nonetheless. the point is people don’t have to agree with him all the time, hell, i actually think he is way too nice to most of these shitty films (including this one). he hardly ever dismisses them, instead trying to understand why some of these film-makers let the opportunities they have go (the actual explanation is simple, they are mediocre talents and with accepting public like you, they don’t have to be anything more than mediocre). it’s his opinion, you don’t have to agree with it but you don’t have the right to suggest he should stop having it.
there has been a lot of films this past year he has written good things about. you are just upset these are not the almost 200 cr grossers that you have spent this whole year defending.
on a different note, as some here have pointed out, the posturing is getting a little too much. everybody who did not enjoy this or ett has ‘arty pretensions’, they should not go watch movies or write about them here. you are not really anybody’s fan including srk and katrina, you don’t really like these sort of movies. but you take your european friends to watch crap like soty, jthj because you are ‘forced’ to. then you have to come back and defend these films because people are being too harsh. you should cop to the fact that watch all this crap because you like it, just like 85% of paying public, you don’t give a shit about cinema or its quality and are just there to munch popcorn in the dark and pass 2 hours. or just admit that your walls are covered by katrina posters that you feel too embarrassed to talk about.
oldgold has a transparent agenda, she is a fan and likes this genre so her willful misunderstanding of things has obvious reasons. pointing out to her that both commercial masala films as well as ‘arty’ films can be excellent or crappy is useless, she has no interest in actually understanding or acknowledging that fact and is baffled by why we just don’t discuss one kind of cinema here. tony above had a balanced take on it. saurabh had no problem saying he is a big ajay and dutt fan but hated sos, that’s both honest and endearing. but your assertion that our not counting overseas numbers is the biggest problem with jthj is just plain hubris. your take seems to be – this movie was expensive, has big stars, is tolerable in most parts and making money in overseas. why would you mean people criticize it? did you hit your head or something?
sorry about the long comment satyam, feel free to delete it if you want. some people’s lack of simple point a to point b logic drives me crazy. just venting.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:12 AM
Oh maan–the most ‘difficult’ ones come from ‘crew member insiders’ like anya –anyhow she has ‘immunity’ and she can ‘abuse’ it 🙂
But a few points–
A) I’m not defending JTHJs less than excellent domestic figures by the excellent overseas figures–just saying both should be mentioned atleast occasionally unlike this blanket embargo
B) I have no problems with rangans JTHJ review where he is right on most points including on srk
It’s just an ongoing trend that happens every week wherein Rangan vents out his frustration and he doesn’t seem to be enjoying it
C) we all have parts of our jobs that we don’t like
But if that part happens to be 99.9%, yeah Rangan should quit it!
Or he should come clean and admit that his “walls are actually covered with katrina posters” and he is just doing lip service to prove his ‘intellect’ here
U can’t have it both ways Rangan
D) not many know that Rangan had a very promising career after IIT (I’m told!) –but he chose to ‘follow his dreams’ –is this how he is following his dreams by having to watch stuff he apparently hates nite n day
Obviously im not his hubby etc, but one just wonders seeing this even week
E) what if u graduate and specialise in neurosurgery ( just as an example !) and then someone asks u to sit in a village dispensary handing out cough syrups to village folks ?
Rangan seems to say in every post –” hey look at me–I’m the Harvard guy” but hey I wanna sit and crib about the corner shops selling milk n condoms
F) finally, anya I saw u going to a church in the morning
Uve come back in this ‘violent form’– what’s the ‘pact with god’-eh 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 10:20 AM
and here we go again. none of what you said goes to the points i addressed, you again ignore what i said about your deliberate misunderstanding of things and go on to make ridiculous comparisons to rangan’s job. which is not what my comment was really about. but it figures. you are fast becoming one of those people one cannot engage in any real conversation or debate or even discussion here. because most of the time, you seem to be talking to yourself. but since you comment here a lot, mostly repeating yourself over and over, it takes up a lot of space and is hard to ignore. but i guess i’ll just have to ignore it from now on.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:25 AM
Completely agree Antya.
Baradwaj Rangan actually writes any number of positive film reviews, so I have no idea where this statistic that he despises 99% of the films he reviews has been conjured up from. And as you rightly note, he’s never dismissive or superior in his tone (in the way that Alex claims that he is), instead taking time to understand what the filmmaker’s intent was, and find some positives in every film.
As for Alex- he’s at the theatres to watch every single big Hindi film from Teri Meri Kahaani to Ek Tha Tiger to Rowdy Rathore and he writes so many rambling posts on SS about his disturbing ‘spoofs’, arguing about the box office of every mainstream Hindi release, rigorously defending any Hindi rom-com that involves a man and two hot women etc, yet he indulges in these transparent pretenses of being very picky about the Hindi cinema that he views, of being aloof from Bollywood, of being above Hindi film fandom and of moving within a social circle of European Auteurs.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:27 AM
@ anya –yeah I’ve been ‘pinned’ or ‘owned’ by you !
Infact I’m sort of enjoying it somewhat 😉
Yeah I can’t think of any ‘explanations’ or ‘responses’ right now ..
Except—
“if I kiss u, will I get slapped?”
Wait anya –that’s not a proposition!
This is an example of the gutter level discourse this film JTHJ stooped to –and I HAVE mentioned it and criticised it already –if u actually READ it
But yeah –I’m too distracted to think of any valid answers to u 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 10:31 AM
“you are fast becoming one of those people one cannot engage in any real conversation or debate or even discussion here. because most of the time, you seem to be talking to yourself.”
Agree! Not every conversation needs to be serious, but when every second comment on any thread is piece of absolutely bizzare rambling courtesy Alex (complete with multiple references to his ‘spoofs’), it becomes a bit much.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:36 AM
My ‘criticism’ for Rangan is more at a ‘personal’ level that takes into account his excellent ability –note I don’t bother with other even more obnoxious ones like raja sen
He seems a guy who is “following his dreams” –to become a movie critic-so why not review /watch something u like at least partly like…
@ Amy–
For years –I’ve lived in areas where there have been not even pirated CDs, no Indian tv, forget Bollywood mainstream releases on the cinema
Only n the past year of more, I’ve moved onto somewhere where these are available –so it’s like a ‘exotic delicacy’
Ask someone like Oldgold who has to catch a flight from swtizerland to catch a film on the big screen
So it’s not that I’m actively wanting to see these films on the big screen–only these ones get exhibited on multiplexes –for eg the likes of GOW, PST, even SOS don’t get shown–
So I’m trying to watch as many Bollywood on the big screen while I can (b4 I have to move or something to a Bollywood inaccessible place)
Ps: as for European auteurs –yeah –I have colleagues/friends –but my involvement is only marginal /amateur since one has ones own work to do –u may /may not believe/agree though lol
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November 18, 2012 at 10:40 AM
“For years –I’ve lived in areas where there have been not even pirated CDs, no Indian tv, forget Bollywood mainstream releases on the cinema”
ROFL! Which part of England is this, exactly? 😛
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November 18, 2012 at 10:46 AM
“ROFL! Which part of England is this, exactly? ” hahah
Amy –now u have come to the main point
C’mon Amy / anushka –I don’t mind u stalking me actually
Btw have u stopped ‘sulking’ about your role in JTHJ
I sincerely believe u did a brilliant job Amy –keep it up
Btw Calm down Amy & anya –can I do something for u 🙂
This reminds me of a song I like
It takes real guts to admit that on a ‘judgmental’ blog like this
But here u are –like the rhythm, the vocals and the guys–
Love akshay and John here –foot tapping stuff
Sent from my iPad
Ps: the other comedy here is– the ‘heroine’ here deepika is obviously not at all worried about catching akshay doing this bizarre stuff but dumps him asap after his losing his corporate drone job haha enjoy
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November 18, 2012 at 10:46 AM
You can subscribe to any number of Indian TV channels in any part of the UK (including ones that show Hindi movies)- and since your previous posts indicate that you live/ lived in London- there are a million different places in the city where you can find Hindi DVDs, both pirated and orginial.
Also you might have heard of a modern amenity called online shopping- you can obtain DVDs of films like GOW, PST etc quite easily online. Why not just admit that you perfer watching mainstream Hindi releases to the more offbeat ones? And that you like films like Cocktail and JTHJ because they feed your fantasy (as your many ‘spoofs’ so clearly evidence). There is no shame in this.
It’s extremely annoying when you keep pretending to be some sort of an auteur-in-the-making who only watches mainstream Hindi cinema out of some sort of ‘compulsion’ or lack of alternatives, when your every comment indicates so strongly to the contrary.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:49 AM
Also my comment on which part of England this was exactly, was only to indicate disbelief at the improbability of living in England, with it’s large South Asian immigrant population, and yet being so cut off from Indian cinema/ culture.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:52 AM
Who said I live(d) (only) in England lol
Just something of an update for the rest of the ‘onlookers’
As u know– I asked the following question–
“Will I get slapped if I kiss u ?” ( as in JTHJ)
To let u know –I was not ‘slapped’ ( by either anya or Amy or even Oldgold )
Hahaha 🙂
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November 18, 2012 at 11:09 AM
And thanx for all that info about where to find pirated CDs etc
Basically I find it difficult to sit out an entire movie on a good quality DVD unless on a flight or train
As for the bad quality pirated ones–it’s put of the question–can’t stand them
Btw Amy–
I seriously found anushkas role in JTHJ quite good
Infact at no point she was less than srk who was near his best
Also I think some of their scenes were quite well handled and perhaps one of the few good things in the movie
Not sure why u didn’t like anushka/ her role ….
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November 18, 2012 at 11:31 AM
I only mentioned pirated DVDs since you siad that you lived in an area where you could not find them- I myself prefer original DVDs and find them very easy to obtain in the UK. Nevertheless, the idea of an ‘amateur auteur’ who cannot even sit through a movie unless in a theatre or on a flight is very interesting (and some may say, absurd). 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 11:39 AM
Yeah Amy -u are right about that –my patience and attention span is getting lower !
Since my nature of work involves being online all the time, it’s easier to change a window, punch in a few comments than sitting on a film for 2-3 hours ! I usually go for mini viewings or a few scenes /songs
Don’t mind em on my big screen tv but on the laptop only on flights /train when theres no option–in the multiplex, one gets stuck &has to complete it..
Hopefully u don’t have to hear many other of my absurdities& so will stay sane lol
As for the ‘spoof’ hopefully there are no other films catching my fancy and so there should be a ‘break’ after JTHJ ha
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November 17, 2012 at 5:47 PM
For the first time I’m looking forward to a Vijay film!
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November 17, 2012 at 10:31 PM
“Sir Jesus” almost villainous like “Sir John”(Ram Lakhan), “Sir Judah”(Karz) .
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November 18, 2012 at 12:10 AM
@satyam can u post this.
its a super trailer!!
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November 18, 2012 at 12:49 AM
I found JTHJ to be a very average movie. Although by no means anywhere near memorable, the first half atleast had me hooked, it’s the piss poor second half that does the movie in! These incoherent meandering pointless 90 minutes literally had me in tears out of boredom. Lots of people seem to be praising Anushka, but for me it’s a very tough choice to decide what I disliked more about the movie, the above mentioned second half or her. Damn the girl, atleast her character in the movie, is very annoying and irritating. Don’t even mention her od-ing on the word ‘Soldier’….I’m still wondering why was she even needed in the movie. To top it all- I hope it’s not a politically incorrect thing to say- though not exactly ugly, she’s the very definition of plain Jane.
Maybe because I’d adjusted my expectations going into the movie, I didn’t mind Katrina; was expecting to see a Barbie doll, saw one, no harm done as far as I am concerned! Coming to SRK, without a doubt he’s the best thing about the movie, restrained and effective.
Months ago there were rumors this movie has been inspired by The End of The Affair and I had wondered how effective its Indian onscreen adaptation would be, especially in the hands of someone like Yash Chopra. Punjab-fetishizing Yash Chopra and a story that is so much informed by and whose very essence is imbued in a catholic worldview and things like catholic guilt, sin and hell always seemed a very odd combination. And so it was. The glitzy wise-cracking world of the movie is so out of whack with the central conceit of the movie that it doesn’t work in any serious sense; for that a somber and somewhat austere world was needed. Even from the trailers it was almost safe to rule out anything approaching a memorable film if indeed it were based on it. The re-calibrated expectations plus my rare foray to the big screen meant the first half somewhat kept me interested and made me look forward to the second half……albeit choosing from a relatively small sample, I don’t remember being so bored as I was during the second half of JTHJ in my big screen movie viewing experience.
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November 18, 2012 at 1:54 AM
Wonderful summation Matrix, esp your point about Green’s story being imbued in the Christian idea of sin and hell, and the film needing a more sombre, austere tone. As I said before, there Katrina’s character is married and suffers from guilt. Having a lover weighs upon her conscience. No such thing in the film.
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November 18, 2012 at 7:20 AM
Great to see here you here after a while Matrix.. and thanks for your views..
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November 18, 2012 at 7:43 PM
Thanks Sandyi and Satyam.
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November 18, 2012 at 2:15 AM
JTHJ has crossed 100cr mark in just five days worldwide.This is called true stardom..Despite competition from sos and death of Bala Sahib Thakrey(which has affected the film badly),JTHJ appears a winner at boxoffice.This is a lesson for those who say that overseas nos hardly matter.Just see what is going to happen to SOS now due to above reasons as getting hit tag looks almost impossible now because overseas performance of this film is very poor.
http://www.boxofficecapsule.com/breaking-news.aspx?news_id=797
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November 18, 2012 at 4:44 AM
‘Jab Tak Hai Jaan’ public reaction…Bangalore i guess…
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November 18, 2012 at 4:44 AM
Thanx for that info king khan bcos overseas numbers are usually ‘blocked’ here somehow. Overseas is a significance market ESP for srk films
“JTHJ has crossed 100cr mark in just five days worldwide.This is called true stardom..Despite competition from sos and death of Bala Sahib Thakrey(which has affected the film badly),JTHJ appears a winner at boxoffice.This is a lesson for those who say that overseas nos hardly matter”
Good point IF True
So 100crores in Five days –hmm that sounds good
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November 18, 2012 at 7:31 AM
100 cr in 5 days ,is this news from planet mars,only srk fanatis claiming this
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November 18, 2012 at 8:50 PM
100 crores in 5 days is world wide collections and not in India…Although the source provided by King Khan here that is boxofficecapsule.com generally has daily collections which are more than BOI.. Personally i will not go with this site…
http://www.boxofficecapsule.com/breaking-news.aspx?news_id=797
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November 18, 2012 at 5:32 AM
@ ALEX:
I truly appreciate the humor and light-headedness you bring to satyamshot. Believe me, I do. But your latest role of ‘Bollywood Ambassador’ is a little disconcerting for me. And going by the comments of others, I feel for them too. I just feel that you are taking on this role far too seriously. Just like Imtiaz Ali’s false and pretentious angst in ROCKSTAR.
Let me just expand by taking the example of your Ipad review of JTHJ. I have been observing that you have somehow taken on the mantle of supporting Bollywood mediocrity. Nothing can substantiate more than your take on JTHJ. Your review on Rangan’s review nailed the fact that you have taken on the role of ‘Bollywood Savior’ far too literally. Let me expand. I haven’t seen JTHJ. And I never will see it. I will watch it on torrent for free because I don’t want my dollars to be expended on MANNAT’s room renovation for SRK’s kids. Here is the deal. I am an old man of 35. When I was a teenager, I hated SRK with all my heart. I hated him because I was the ugly/average duckling – still am—and would see him walking away with girls on screen and the girls I was acquainted with loved that. So I wasn’t all that SRK was. So when I watched DDLJ in 1995 on the screen, I tried to find reasons to hate the film, and the best that I could come up with was that it was a derivative of HUM AAPKE HAIN KOUN. Because the Punjabi Kudi shit and all that stuff was already explored in HAHK via songs/situations. And actually, I am still convinced of that. The fact remains, that it was HAHK that brought to the fore the ‘enjoyable’ perks of being an extended joint family, what with all the kakas, kakis, taos, dogs, bitches, cats, kittens, all dancing as one never ending happy family. However, the fact remains that for its time, DDLJ was a great film and an enjoyable one with resonance related to the time. But still, today, I am willing to pass off my skepticism toward DDLJ as my hatred toward SRK and love toward Madhuri Dixit (yes, I was in love with her and could not tolerate anybody over-powering her in terms of talent and superstardom and talent, especially the irritating Juhi Chawla, who threatened to take her place what with SRK helmed successes like DARR and RAJU series).
Alex, what kind of worries me is that you are still carrying forward something that I left behind as a teenager (maybe you are still too young — so that’s fine I guess:( (this unflinching loyalty to something that any rational being can deduce as something being irrational/biased. For instance, you are finding that Ami/me/XYZ/Rangan – anyone who points to plotholes in JTJH as someone who is ‘above’ Bollywood and who view ‘Bollywood’ as condescending. In other words, people who endorse the mediocrity/mistakes of JTHJ are the true fans of Bollywood while those who find loop-holes, need to shift focus to Hollywood or France or whatever. What you are ignoring Alex, is the passage of time. Hell, the world, India especially with access to French/Hollywood and what have you of world cinema, is exposed to the best in the game. I mean, when the NYT review of JTHJ or anybody else compares SRK walking to disarm a bomb as coolly as THE HURT LOCKER’s protagonist, one should understand that we are no longer living in an era of silos but an all-pervasive atmosphere. You say BR or anybody else should NOT judge JTHJ based on the fact that SRK walks to diffuse some bomb as though he is walking to pee in Hyde Park. But what to do Alex? All the internet savvy middle-class folks of the world are exposed to THE HURT LOCKER. So when you give SRK a role of bomb-diffuser, one obviously expects some sort of authenticity when it comes to Yash Chopra deciding to make SRK a bomb-diffuser. What you say is, let SRK dance his way to bomb-diffusion, it doesn’t matter, this is Bollywood: dim-wittedness is quite legal here. But why should it be? We are living in a different, intern et-savvy, information-enriched atmosphere. Why do you want us to regress and enjoy shit? Let me be frank. Aditya Chopra is supposed to be young and I am assuming being so, he would be quite familiar with the pulse of Indian and NRI audiences – especially NRIS. Coz he made a fucking career out of them. So now for him to say, “ to hell with NRIs or RNIs (Resident Non-Indians) being exposed to world cinema”, is really a cop-out. With the kind of money and exposure that he has, let him increase his standards. Please do not ask us to lower our standards.
Nobody is picking faults with JTHJ or SRK because they have nothing better to do. It is just that people are so exposed to world cinema that it is difficult to comprehend as to how, still, people can still be idiotic with such a wealth of information available to them at their finger-tips. I loved SRK in KHKN, DIL SE, SWADES, CDI, and RNBDJ. And his roles in his romantic avatars where he gloats like a sheep irritate me, especially the YC ones. But that is my personal opinion and SRK, through his 20 years of Bollywood, has not been able to change my opinion. I am a person that is always open to change and experimentation but have found SRK to be of a limited acting talent. To me, he has performed well only when somebody like Ratnam or Gowarikar or Kundan Shah has pushed a bamboo up his posterior and forced him to change/perform. But that’s me and I fully respect KING KHAN or BHALO MANUSH who think he is the be all and end all. That’s their view and I fully support their right to own that view. SRK has never been able to convince me of his acting talent like Amitabh or Kamal Hassan or Irrfan have. But that’s my opinion. MOOLAH, BO, has never interested me and never will. SRK is THE BOLLYWOOD START that is the most famous monetary star across the seven seas? Greater than Amitabh Bachchan? Fine. Good luck and wishes to him. I am not interested in that. I am willing to sign on stamp paper that AB monetarily is inferior to SRK. Don’t care and doesn’t bother. What just interests me is the legacy, the talent. And everyone knows who is the winning horse when it comes to this..
You say,’didn’t BR know that he was reviewing a BOLLYWOOD film?’ Hell yes, he knows. But this is not the 1970s! Let me expand. Please compare JTHJ to Yash Chopra’s earlier movies sans SRK like KALA PATTHAR, DEEWAR, TRISHUL, SILSILA or any movies he directed prior to the ‘80s. In any of these movies, do you find any extreme level of stupidity as SRK walking into a post – 9/11 scenario where he is allowed by UK cops to diffuse a bomb without any need for checking his credentials!!! I mean, do you now see where our frustrations stem from?
Alex, I am as much a supporter of song-and-dance Bollywood as you are. But seriously, you cannot ask me or yourself to demote yourself back to 1970s’ when there was no Internet or RedBox or county libraries carrying world cinema DVDs.
This is my fifth scotch. Please forgive any grammatical or incomprehensible English sentences. I apologize. Alex, please forgive if this comes across as negative. I am just trying to have an inebriated discussion…..
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November 18, 2012 at 6:34 AM
I don’t know if you have it right.
Not to support mediocrity is one thing, but to want all the films to become ‘arty’/ auteuristic is another – with a sugar coating of – why can’t they make it like in the west?
Look how good ….. was!!! etc etc
I am not a fan of NRI stuff and prefer rooted films, and don’t like this trend. There are those who do. I just avoid these films.
I absolutely ABHOR violence and gore, so I avoid those and don’t even talk about it here.
I think AA makes sense that those interested in ‘not mediocre’ films should watch support and discuss only such films or – attempts at such films.
Then this place would be frequented by like minded people.
But the films whose trailers, images BO talk gets posted here are not those types, and then to judge it from the above mentioned POV, is unfair.
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November 18, 2012 at 6:39 AM
Good point Oldgold –that’s why u were cast in JTHJ spoof!
People do realise with time that my castings are actually robust and ‘scientifically done’
Ditto for anya , Amy 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 5:58 AM
I thought only satyam is writing essays.
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November 18, 2012 at 6:14 AM
kya karen Khan bhai, much to the chagrin of the great professor Obama, outsourcing is here to stay.. and Satyam has outsourced JTHJ to me!!!
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November 18, 2012 at 6:29 AM
Haha Satyam doesn’t argue much with me nowadays
Experience has taught him something lol
So much so that he refrains from putting up his customary box office predictions –he does them only after a few days of release usually
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November 18, 2012 at 6:35 AM
Amys ‘objections’ to JTHJ
As for Amy having objections to JTHJ — there are ‘deeper’ reasons there haha
Amy is currently ‘sulking’–her anushkas role wasn’t given the same deal —
We have been saying that anushkas role has been quite good and she has done v well.
But Amy is pointing out to the ‘lack of a proper kiss’
I mean, c’mon, why to make such a fuss about it, I thought
But Amy thinks it is like a ‘prestige issue’
Rather a ‘status symbol’ that her (anushkas) role missed out on!
Ok Amy : wil try to ‘correct’ it
Anyhow I will soon get enthused with another upcoming film and will create a spoof –will keep u in mind
Now stop ‘sulking’ Amy 🙂
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November 18, 2012 at 7:24 AM
Ha! Touche!
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November 18, 2012 at 6:08 AM
@ Ann — thanx for the highly entertaining and heart felt post there.
I could sense each and every ‘pore’ in your body ‘believing’ in what u were typing and I get your points. 🙂
So let’s take these points one by one
There are some clarifications to make here —
A) I’m NOT a fan of SRK or yash chopra or aditya
Those who may have followed the blog here b4 have also found me over critical of srk & chopra films
Infact, I’m not a consistent ‘fan’ of anyone–it’s more as per the particular scenario sort of a deal
B) I have numerous issues with JTHJ myself
Plz Read this and the vol2, 3 below that
C) The ONLY reason I didn’t dwell on the negatives was that they have already been dealt with in detail and more here n elsewhere
Unlike others, I don’t intend my ‘reviews’ to be ‘separate threads’ or comprehensive professional type writeups on films
I try to ‘fill in gaps’ or ‘inconsistencies’ (as I see them)-& I don’t expect folks to necessarily agree to them (though with my persuasive skills, it sometimes becomes difficult for them maybe/ maybe not, I don’t know lol)
D) the key points here were–
The ‘relevance’ of these issues to this theme /premise
Do we care too much about certain ‘technical’ issues in a Hollywood romcom, the types Ben affleck used to indulge in, during the ‘bennifer’ phase when he was flitting between Jennifer garner, Lopez, Sandra bullock etc—nope
But when he has taken over this ‘Argo’ phase, the genre, the requirements and expectations change since into new setting, the ‘demands’ are different
E) plz read the bits about the ‘distractability’ of the bollywood audience –Satyam has gone on record that all he did in cocktail was to fast forward, see deepika in a red bikini, then rewind, watch it again, and that’s all he did!!
Also some other folks get entangled in ‘regressiveness’ etc whilst missing the whole boat of the central premise
F) plz read the segment “the abstract pact with God!” —
Now I personally don’t care a damn about such pacts, but I’m sure that none to those ripping apart this film, ever reached THAT —
This was supposed to be (one of ) the central point
We have an audience that demands ‘reason’ in a chopra film inspite of knowing the tradition and history of Bollywood
It’s like travelling in parts of Bombay metro with your wallet hanging out of your jeans pocket and then complaining, someone picked your pocket!!! Let’s not be so ‘gullible’ or ‘naive’
G) as for being ‘Bollywood custodian’– I have started watching Bollywood regularly only recently and this blog is one of the real maybe. Have being exposed to cinema of all types n genes including auteruiristic, European, French, Hungarian, even stuff like bella tarr (infact will be attending an auteur amateur workshop v soon)–have friends who delve in amateur indie European films and have been associated with them as well though in a marginal amateur capacity
But don’t think that gives me either the authority or immunity or this ‘higher /holier than thou’ quality to expect similar standards for viewers who don’t have that access/tastes
I) one should have the flexibility and manoeuvrability to place him/herself at the level of the material one is critiquing
Looking at it from an exalted/superior position, isn’t fair either to oneself or to the material itself
J) to summarise, intellectual isolation and ghettoisation is more dangerous than uncomplicated simple basal level bufffoonery
🙂
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November 18, 2012 at 6:30 AM
Addendum (reply to Ann)
K) The ‘superiority of genre’
So basically what many folks here and in general will want us to believe
A biopic is better than a drama is better than a comedy is better than a romcom
I don’t believe in that
There’s basically a good film and a bad film –period
Am engrossing film and one that doesn’t hold u –that’s it
L) ‘superiority of entertainment’
I will also demolish another snobbery being perpetuated
While I never watch/enjoy stuff like houseful, SOS, golmaal, I do NOT mock them
Bcos as the numbers show, there ARE folks who enjoy them.
Who am I or anyone else to decide that the ‘entertainment’ avenues and tastes of a poor guy sitting in a corner shop in Bihar is ‘inferior’ to that of someone sitting in Europe with access to not only watching but even working in amateur indie alternate European films!
M)Therein lies the difference
While one may put forward ones points/tastes, this attempt to ‘scorn’ or ‘put to ones place’ something in the name of ‘inferior taste’ is what I don’t like
If u read my objections to Rangan, it’s not about the material he writes ( of which I amw a fan of !)
But his predicament of leaving an IIT career to ‘follow his dream’ and then having to review subpar stuff that he apparently hates 99.9% of the time
Also objections can be found out withOUT this ‘”heavenly body surveying from the skies at lowly earth forms”‘ approach that folks like him adopt!!
Also for his finding katrina lifeless –read my suggestion to him about mrs Rangan ( or mr Rangan if he has a gay partner–u never know nowadays) 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 6:55 AM
Addendum II –reply to Ann
The box office — a peril or a responsibility
Ann- I have had some amateur experience of contributing some finances to small indie European films –only as a ‘hobby’ or amateur pursuits–don’t usually go into details
But since the topic demands it–
While it gives u more ‘power’ and ‘exposure’ when the scales ‘ budgets go up, there is also a responsibility
Not only to improve cinema and ‘take it to a new frontier’
But also to ensure that all who worked for /under u make money
NOT thinking about this latter objective, is also sheer dishonesty and selfishness
The first objective of ‘higher frontiers in cinema’ can still be met by smaller indie experimental films
But when one is in the big game wherein families can be destroyed by your ‘imaginative skills’ one needs to retreat and put a cap on your creative juices –this is not to condone ‘subpar’ stuff but to explain the ‘pressures’—also depends on the target audience
What u or may consider ‘subpar’ may infact be enjoyable to the guy in Bihar or UP or the girl sitting in her hostel room in Bombay or the one closeted with her pet dog in NYC
It’s this ‘confluence’ that’s more difficult to achieve than the socalled “indie- amateur in mainstream act ” 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 6:45 AM
alex adams you’re in an ‘articulate’ mood. keep it up! 🙂
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November 18, 2012 at 6:55 AM
I think it’s time to discuss SOS now!! Has NO ONE seen it? Was everyone’s first choice JTHJ? What about it?
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November 18, 2012 at 7:00 AM
Good point Oldgold –seems none of the SOS ‘supporters’ went to actually see it!!
The ones who ‘hated’ JTHJ like Amy and utkal uncle –saw JTHJ first day first show even before the spoof cast memebers saw it themselves
Amy has infact gone for a second viewing
Some like anya have been visiting a church since then 🙂
Anyhow–lemme stop this ‘leg pulling’ (briefly)
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November 18, 2012 at 9:16 AM
saurabh saw it. he even posted his views on wednesday
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November 18, 2012 at 2:31 PM
Yes, I read his comment. What I meant was indepth opinion by more than one person.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:00 PM
SOS is to be seen. Not to be discussed. Just like ETT, BG, BB etc.It is a critic’s nightmare and audience delight.
Only films like JTHJ, Talaash can be discussed and torn to pieces. Because these films have kept up promises and they deserve a deep analysis.
Even I dont like violence and also sleaze. I love Hrishikesh Mukherjee type of flicks. My favourite middleclass heroes are Amol Palekar and Farooq Sheik.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:15 PM
I wish that someone would discuss, or at least acknowledge, that SRK’s character in JTHJ is in the business of “defusing bombs”, and not “diffusing bombs.” 🙂
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November 18, 2012 at 11:14 PM
Point taken – no more venturing in the 2nd language of English with Jack Daniels…
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November 19, 2012 at 12:21 AM
Oh, it’s not just you. I’ve seen this confusion all over the net. 🙂
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November 18, 2012 at 6:57 AM
Thanx tony
“Keep it up”–ok, it is up 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 7:26 AM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan And Son Of Sardaar Day Five Business
Sundday 18th November 2012 12.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan and Son Of Sardaar continued to well in most areas and Saturday saw growth from Friday at many places. The all India collections of the film look in the same range as Friday as many areas in Maharashtra area were shut in the evening due to the death of Balasaheb Thackerey.
If things were normal the films would have managed decent 10% plus growth on an all India basis but now collections look like coming in the same range or even lower depending on the affect in Maharashtra. Sunday will also be hit as Maharashtra will be shut all day. North India added a good 10% plus for both films on Saturday.
Maharashtra being shut aside both films are doing well and Saturday collections as per early estimates look 8.25 crore nett for Son Of Sardaar and 10.50 crore nett for Jab Tak Hai Jaan.
The approx five day totals are 65-66 crore nett for Jab Tak Hai Jaan and 50-51 crore nett for Son Of Sardaar.
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November 18, 2012 at 7:27 AM
SOS seems to have almost caught up with JTHJ on the Sat numbers..
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November 18, 2012 at 7:34 AM
son of sardar is damn good film,seen it yesterday,its a superb acting by mr devgan,jthj looks like a competion hard fought,
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November 18, 2012 at 8:13 AM
Can you provide a link for it or you are just talking in the air???
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November 18, 2012 at 8:08 AM
A miracle can make SOS due to its huge distribution cast.Even if it touches 100cr mark in domestic circuit,still it will not be declared a hit by the trade.
This is what i said this morning.
http://www.boxofficecapsule.com/boxoffice-collections.aspx?id=904
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November 18, 2012 at 8:08 AM
i mean miracle can make it hit
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November 18, 2012 at 8:09 AM
In overseas it has collected only 3cr so far which is poor.
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November 18, 2012 at 8:15 AM
My point here is overseas collection for big budget films are very important for their verdicts,boxoffice wise.
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November 18, 2012 at 9:27 AM
The ‘discrimination against pounds/ dollars!”
Think king khan raises a good point here.
I feel that ‘domestic markets’ are obviously more important
And one can’t call a domestic flop a success due to good overseas collections
But should there be a ‘blanket curtain’ over the overseas returns ESP for–
A) big budget films
B) films with known good markets abroad like srk/ yrf films
C) the obvious difference in one ticket returns due to differential currency
D) the blog owner and mos others are typing aWay from overseas
E) Satyam comes up with daily updates of domestic bo figures
Isn’t there a point in coming up with overseas collections ?
Why this bias & hesitation : Satyam
Why not a worldwide figure with breakup
Do we have to wait for the next abhiskrek/kjo/yrf alliance (if we get one ) to get those
Wondering if amongs the other ‘reforms’ in box office here-I can push this one through as well Satyam 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 9:34 AM
To add–
We are not askin for figures from Switzerland or Afghanistan but USA, uk maybe Australia etc
And not daily but maybe once in a couple of days to get the ‘pattern’
Since it may become difficult for Satyam to manage..
After ETT200& barfi100: and the ” limitless extrapolations reforms –wanna take it easy on Satyam –anyhow just kIdding haha
For a start–Satyam
Can we have the cumulative figures from overseas us/uk compariSon of JTHJ/SOS–it neednt be as detailed and exhaustive as your domestic daily /hourly updates –but may be enough to give an idea 😉
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November 18, 2012 at 9:56 AM
Ghajini directors next south remake- akshay parineeti
http://www.pinkvilla.com/entertainment/news/akshay-kumar-parineeti-chopra-confirmed-thuppakki-remake
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November 18, 2012 at 10:02 AM
Tomorrow Mumbai traders have called for a bandh as a mark of respect to BT. Tomorrow schools are closed ditto. Cabs and autos may follow suit. And cinemas?
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November 18, 2012 at 10:08 AM
Using force to call for a bandh? respect should be earned, not forced upon a person.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:12 AM
I think it is a voluntary thing. It will act as a buffer and avoid unpleasant incidents.
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November 18, 2012 at 11:01 AM
Dunno. One of my friends from Mumbai said shopkeepers and store owners in certain regions were forced to shut down their shop or else…
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November 18, 2012 at 5:55 PM
One of the reasons why many people want to get out of India is the fear factor running deep whether it is UP, Chennai, Hyderabad, Mumbai, West Bengal, Assam, and infact every part of India.
There is no certainty in life.
You alight from an international flight or from a long distance train and there will be the uncertainty of not getting cabs or autos.
You maybe in dire need of medicines or food and there is always the possibility of some bandh, some strike etc.
The roads are pathetic. there are no more traffic rules and
Many still feel India was better off during British rule.
Considering how domestic political parties have failed Indians, many Indians are not fearing China or Pakistan any more.
Reasonable people mouths are being gagged. There are goons everywhere and they are prospering at the cost of law abiding citizens. The police harass the innocent citizens while the big shots get away easily.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:08 AM
Sitting at home. thankfully channels were working. Saw Bol Bachchan for the fourth time and enjoyed. Saw OMG on colors. and also watched the funeral of BT. Saw Bachchan sitting with Anil Ambani. BT was draped in Indian tricolor and was given a full state funeral. Yes, he died as an Indian. Congress was gracious enough inspite of receiving unending insults from BT while he was alive.
Saw Anand Mahendroo and other luminaries. Yes, Nana Patekar was there.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:11 AM
Bachchan must have been attending a lot of funerals.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:17 AM
Sanjana–thanx for those updates
Was there any ‘violence’ after BT death?
I don’t know much but feel lots of these film starts actually have more ‘fear’ than ‘respect’ for BT– what do u feel
Btw since u are posted in Bombay- how often dya come across shooting (I meant film shooting!)
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November 19, 2012 at 2:31 AM
Mumbai is a city where commuting by any transport is difficult due to density of population and also transport of any kind. And film shootings mostly take place in studios or filmcity and mot of them go to phoren countries nowadays.
I feel most of the mumbai people really loved him.
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November 19, 2012 at 6:41 AM
>I feel most of the mumbai people really loved him.
Like most Germans (at that time) loved Hitler 😉
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November 19, 2012 at 6:58 AM
Ya he opposed bangladeshis to crowd in Bombay/ India – toh ussko Hitler bana do..so bloody convinient !!!
Kashmir/ Pakistan has hundreds of them.. with NO followers !!!
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November 19, 2012 at 7:02 AM
Rocky: Thackeray himself expressed his admiration for Hitler. He also advocated stripping Muslims of voting rights in the 1980s. At one point he even said Kashmiri women should be raped to be taught a lesson. I don’t need to call him a Hitler for these things — he just needs to be called a Thackeray, which has become its own by-word for a number of violent, lumpen tendencies in our politics.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:18 AM
Agree thackrey did divisive politics but why single him out??? show me one modern politician who is so called secular in india? he is easy target for left liberal politics, same was done by NC and Mufti syed in J&K and they are secular, Sikhs were Killed by Rajiv Gandhi and Congres, bhagalpur riots, about 50 riots in gujarat by congress pre 2002 and they r so called Secular…
Every riot in India has been done by politicians.
Secularism is bogey and now obselete tune which left leaning so called seculars are harping on and on…
I am against any violence in any form but than let’s be fair.
India is not secular country in true sense and word secular was again amendment by Indira gandhi in basic tenets of our consitution.
By the standard, CPM and DMK are much more dangerous as they were anti national and CPM even supported china in 1962 Indo- china war and dmk wanted eelam…
Every party plays divisive politics, congress still plays it in NE but its not highlighted by so called secular media.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:27 AM
Bliss quote any other politician who has made statements like BT.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:36 AM
OG:
In that sense BT was transparent not hypocrite like rest of politicians (afriad of so called public image never said or may have said but never highlighted by media) who dit it.
recent example is of so called suave and harvard educated salman khurshid on kejriwal.Google it 🙂
OG, If u are really interested than you will find what most politicians say and do. You won’t say Quote.
Action speaks louder than words but somehow we get stuck in words as you are 🙂
I gave you facts of riots in India and you can count the deaths but still you want quote.. this is hilarious.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:40 AM
OG :
Quote for you
Rajiv gandhi on Sikh massacre and progrom( approx 4000 deaths), ” When big tree falls, earth is bound to shake”
RG, justifying the massacre of sikhs
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November 19, 2012 at 7:46 AM
@ Bliss
Only one?
I could write a book with BT’s quotes.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:53 AM
OG :
Ek kahavat hain
Sau sunar ki Ek lohar ki
Its not quotes but who did what ??? RG is responsible for deaths of 5000 sikhs and they are still striving for justice when govt of the day did all to cover it up…
So if you are interested in dialogues than THANKS from me.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:12 AM
Rajiv Gandhi at that time was relatively young and he did not justify killing of sikhs but only said something insensitive. 5000 is an exaggerated number and the detractors of congress will go on increasing that number just like CAG’s mythical figures.
India is one country even now because of Congress and in the future also congress is the only hope whatever its detractors may say about corruption. Which party is not neck deep in corruption?
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November 19, 2012 at 8:16 AM
Rajiv Gandhi was not responsible for the massacre of sikhs. It is the congress goons headed by some local leaders who took advantage of Rajiv Gandhi’s naiveity and inexperience as a politician. It is the gandhis or Nehrus who laid down their lives for the country time and again.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:25 AM
@Bliss
No one is denying the wrong done then.
So BT should be let off because of that?
It’s BT who died recently, not RG.
I’m sure RG received a lot of flak when he died, and still receives (including his children).
You’ll have to think of a better reason to defend him.
Over his lifetime his ‘sunar’ hits have definitely surpassed the ‘lohar hits.
We are also talking of ideologies here.
RG’s wasn’t to kill or banish sikhs from Delhi/Punjab whatever. I think he let his emotions take over, at having his mother killed by one of them. Not like a good leader I would say.
He didn’t say things against them as BT did most of his life against muslims and non Maharashtrians.
I could go on in this comparison, but I hope you see what I’m saying – even though you’ll never agree.
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November 19, 2012 at 9:39 AM
OG :
” So BT should be let off because of that?”
Who says that ??? you have not read my 1st comment on this carefully 🙂
I said let’s be fair and see both sides of political spectrum.
@sanjana
3700 is official figure , stand corrected there 🙂
And its not detractors of congress, most of the problems in India is coz of congress from kashmir to TN. Indira gandhi destroyed every other insititution in India and this is also Fact.
If one is inexperienced then one should not hold PM’s post 🙂 this is no excuse. I repeat, Most of ills afflicting india is coz of congress.
That’s why Gnadhi wanted congress to disband after Independence
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November 19, 2012 at 9:50 AM
Bliss, every country has its own share of problems. Will you hold congress responsible for all those countries also?
A vast unorgnaised country like India will definitely have problems and all those problems cannot be pinned on congress. Kashmir problem is ethnic and TN problem is because of too many dravidian parties.
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November 19, 2012 at 10:01 AM
@Sanjana
If you just bracket kashmir and TN in such simple manner than its better to go back to history books( pro and con). Kashmir problem is gift of Nehru, LTTE gift of Indira Gandhi, Destroying Democartic insititutions like Apex judiciary, beaurocracy and Emergency…. Who created Bhindrewala??? and against whom ???Its not other Country but My Country. and dont tell me in rejoinder congress is winning polls, not coz ppl favour it but just Political arthmetic and convenient colliations…
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November 19, 2012 at 10:34 AM
Hyderabad MIM Party MLA Akbaruddin Owaisi threatens of destroying India (there is a youtube video which I am not posting here), he abuses Lord Ram freely, and yes ofcourse media doesnt bother, but if someone does the reverse on Muslims, they r branded with all sorts of names and storm is created.
Few days back Mint journo PriyaRamani was abusing similarly (even much worse things) and had support from fellow journos. Do these ppl have similar guts to say anything against Muslim God??? Cant even dream of that!! Thats why ppl like Bal Thackeray will have fans and supporters. There is always an equal and opposite reaction.
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November 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM
Bliss- great set of points…. keep it up !!
OG- did you see a recent press conference of SRK? a journalist identified herself as Rekha Khan so SRK says main aapko Namastey karoon ya Salaam ? is that not communal..aur Rekha Khan’s respone- arrey Sharukh Bhai – Salaam boliye salaam, so SRK salaams her…..did not hear a single leftie or even Right wingie object to that… in my view it was totally unacceptable…..
last time I checked Namastey is INDIAN not Hindu ( Ram Ram sahab may be , but not Namsatey) ……
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November 19, 2012 at 11:26 AM
It’s a real shame that people don’t see the difference between what they are talking and what is being discussed, by taking the topic to a totally different topic called “evil of politics” “Party POlitics”
That’s NOT what is in discussion.
GOOD TRICK!!! When you don’t know what to say about a man identifying himself with Hitler.
First omrocky comes up with abusing secularism and calls it ‘sickularism’ – WHILE ENJOYING THE SAME and prospering, but doesn’t want the same for people in India – because they destroyed temples….. centuries ago!!!
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November 19, 2012 at 7:30 PM
Reply to Bliss
Kashmir is not a creation of Nehru. It has a history and geography which has seeds of what is happening till today. No one knowingly creates a problem and Nehru would not have done it. China is still debating Mc Mahaon line and claiming Arunachal Pradesh.
As for LTTE, a genuine tamil problem became a bombshell in their heands because of Prabhakaran’s mindset.
And Bhindranwale. I am not sure about it and I will try to revisit history.
Emergency was necessitated by JP’s calling army and police to revolt.
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November 20, 2012 at 3:42 AM
Sanjana :
Honestly, you need to revisit history again.
Go through interaction of nehru and patel on kashmir and read jagmohan’s book. LTTE was brain child of Indira G and RAW. This is FACT, admitted by GOI. same for Bhindrewale, Assam problem. destroying Institutions.. and Emergency in response to JP movement.. This is LOL statement.
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November 20, 2012 at 3:48 AM
OG :
” because they destroyed temples….. centuries ago!!!”
Not centuries ago but just a 2 decades back in Kashmir. 120 temples destroyed. just coz Kashmiri pandits dont form big community and Vote bank and they are hindu’s, its not big news. That’s Big tragedy and parties which did it are so called secular parties for most of us. Appeasment wont lead one anywhere.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:00 AM
Not sure what we mean by “most of the Mumbai people”: I am sure the South Indians, Muslims, North Indians and others who have felt the brunt of Sena attacks at different points over the last few decades, but who might have been born and raised in the city (in many cases communities pre-dating the arrival of many Maharashtrians in the city –certainly true for Mumbai’s Bohra, Khoja, Gujarati, and Parsi communities) might not have “really loved him.” Undoubtedly many Marathi-speaking Mumbaikars certainly did.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:09 AM
Q-http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/ColumnsOthers/He-thought-beyond-obvious/Article1-960798.aspx
as for Hitler he clarified several times that he admired Hitler as an artist but hated his acts yes hated…but the lefties choose to ignore it….he had many faults but Hitler he was not……
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November 19, 2012 at 7:41 AM
“as for Hitler he clarified several times that he admired Hitler as an artist but hated his acts yes hated…but the lefties choose to ignore it”
As a leftie I would say that the “I admired Hitler’s art” bit is actually what makes sense to include in a criticism on Thackeray. If Pol Pot was a brilliant pianist I still wouldn’t expect anyone with a pulse (not least someone in a position of even slight power) to talk about how much they admired the ruthless dictator’s beautiful music. Unless of course they were trying to be a hugely irresponsible, cowardly, even monstrous provocateur. And that’s of course Thackeray’s legacy.
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November 19, 2012 at 3:41 PM
Re: “…as for Hitler he clarified several times that he admired Hitler as an artist…”
How can this be taken seriously? It is obviously an attempt to backtrack (especially where the international media was concerned, where admiration of Hitler goes down especially badly). To put it bluntly, one would be hard-pressed to find a serious person anywhere who admires Hitler “as an artist”; the man was a complete mediocrity as an artist, and the only people who admire his art are those who admire him anyway — otherwise there is no reason to admire his art given the many greater artists from the same period. I mean, Thackeray has the option of esteeming the paintings of Monet, Picasso, Schiele, ad infinitum, and the one he admires as a painter is…Hitler?! Give me a break.
PS: the very article you cite — a very favorable piece on him by Pritish Nandy — is telling. Not even Nandy can say anything good about Thackeray’s admiration for Hitler, and so he throws up his hands and says Thackeray’s “admiration for Hitler didn’t help.”
More broadly, and as I wrote in an early comment, I don’t need to paint Thackeray as the desi Hitler — he wasn’t Hitler. But he was Mumbai’s Bal Thackeray, and that’s bad enough.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:14 AM
what reaaly pisses me off that most muslims ( educated, Inland, foreign returned, foreig residing) except very few are so outraged by modi and Thackrey and RSS ..but say not a single word about pakistan, afghanistan, Saudi arabia, Godhra, Kashmir..Owaasi, Shahi imaam…….Dum nahee hai, ya bikta nahee hai????
P.S.- the reborn as a muslim and in Bihar was a tasteless, insensitive comment and had me started !!!!
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November 19, 2012 at 7:35 AM
>what reaaly pisses me off that most muslims ( educated, Inland, foreign returned, foreig residing) except very few are so outraged by modi and Thackrey and RSS ..but say not a single word about pakistan, afghanistan, Saudi arabia, Godhra, Kashmir..Owaasi, Shahi imaam……
I’m NOT a muslim.
I would criticize the situation IN INDIA.
Yes, the Shahi Imam is bad, and when he dies I’ll say the same, but to a lesser extent, because BT was worse.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:40 AM
Omrocky
You should be happy that the conservatives in US are not having their way to the extent that other religions ko aate daal ka bhaav pata nahin lagne de rahe because of ‘sick’ularism.
Sickness ka laabh uthaao 😉
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November 19, 2012 at 7:55 AM
GF as a leftie -please write a book as to how the Muslims systematically destroyed several Hindu Temples, whereevr they are in majority there is trouble for minority, go and work for the upliftment of the Hindu minorities in Pakistan, go and ask an average Maahrahtriyan NOT the Twitter happy few how they feel about Thackerey ( although I don’t really care for him at all but will defend against the stupid reborn as mulimd comments ) then I shall know you have pulse….
OG- I am enjoying the freedom, and so are all the Muslims in India..( actually they have much more freedom than anywhere else in the world including the USA) ….
Will be offline for the next 1.5 hours as getting readu and driving to work……baaki baad mein…saala baat kartey hain !!!!
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November 19, 2012 at 8:10 AM
I don’t think anyone would deny Thackeray’s standing amongst the people who benefitted from his divisive irresponsibility. And I’m certainly not suggesting he’s alone in that kind of irresponsibility in the history of communal politics in India. These are obvious points and luckily even if I lack a pulse there’s still something of a brain rattling up there! I’m specifically addressing the “I admired Hitler’s art” comment which to me encapsulates Thackeray…a gross, shameful provocateur. The kind of comment that’s indefensible for anyone who’s at least attempting to be objective about this in my view.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:11 AM
@omrocky
You are confusing different issues – the past and the present.
You are living in a country which has totally decimated a way of life and culture of a people. What do you feel about it? If you feel that was wrong;
-are you doing anything about it in the BT way? It may bring it back you know – the way the destroyed temples have reappeared LOL
< I am enjoying the freedom, and so are all the Muslims in India..( actually they have much more freedom than anywhere else in the world including the USA) ….
Who's denying that?
BUT BT WANTED TO CHANGE THAT!!
That's why he's hateful.
The discussion has gone totally religion based ignoring the regional aspect of it.
WHO DOES THAT IN A COUNTRY??
People from other parts of India are suggested to be like foreigners in Bombay.
Anyway, I'm off to after another comment on the relevant topic of this post.
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November 19, 2012 at 10:27 AM
Re.-The discussion has gone totally religion based ignoring the regional aspect of it.
OldGold- egggjactly and you started it by posting the “reborn as a muslim” comment.. ..( as an afterthought you later added Bihari but your primary point was the first comment)…
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November 19, 2012 at 10:56 AM
OldCold- Re.-It may bring it back you know – the way the destroyed temples have reappeared LOL
Alas like all commies – destroyed temples is just a matter of LOL for you…sahee hai…..
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November 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM
My LOL was NOT for destroyed temples but because of the attitude of people.
WHat do you want to do about it??
Torture the muslims till eternity- who had NOTHING to do with it?
Carry on the strife endlessly while sitting peacefully in another land???
WHAT IS YOUR POINT???
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November 19, 2012 at 11:49 AM
OldCold- shaant ho jao, all caps likhney sey aapkee baat sach siddh nahee hogee…..
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November 19, 2012 at 1:17 PM
mujhe shaant karne ke baad aap khud hi shaant ho gaye.
What *is* your point about destroyed temples which gives people like Bt and others to carry on their tirade, against people who were not there when these deeds occured?
What do you and others hope to achieve?
I’m asking this without caps. ab tau jawab milna chahiye.
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November 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM
Hum toh Saarukh khan kee baat ka aapkey jawab ka wait kar rahen hain …
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November 19, 2012 at 4:22 PM
Ok. Since I really don’t know what was in SRK’s mind, I can only deduct and use logic.
His own wife is Gauri Khan, and children are IIRC Aryan Khan and Suhana Khan aur something like that – so whatever was on his mind it was definitely not degrading, mocking, communal or anything negative.
It must have been a moment of silliness or he thought he was being witty.
Another explanation is;
Rekha is a hindi word (meaning line) – so should he greet in hindi
Khan is an urdu word – so should he greet in urdu language.
Beyond this I don’t see anything sinister.
ab aap ki baari. Bataiye ki aap ka point kya hai aur in sab baaton ka aim kya hai, annt kahan hai?
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November 19, 2012 at 4:38 PM
Fine he likes Hitler’s Art….he did not follows on Hitlers acts though… however Akbar did… and he has been made a demigod by the leftie historians.
Thackrey was a selfish and ruthless Politician like any other lekin just because he spoke against Pakistan Sympathizing Mislims and against Pakistan and Shiv Sena acted as big detterrent to the eising Islamization of Bombay , he has been singled out by all and sundry…….
There are a lot of people who admire Obama but do NOT like his Drone strikes so ???? Liking and Act like are two different things ………
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November 19, 2012 at 4:45 PM
OldCold- aapke SRK kee jawab dekh kar ek gaan yaad aa gaya-
Please I am sorry and will request satyam to delete it if you do not like it- ” Ek Chatur Naar, badee Hoshiyaar, Badi khoobsoorti sey baat Ghoomaye” LOL!!
I do not mind/ care a damn about criticism of any politician whether vajpayee, Thackrey, Modi, Advani….but blanket statements like reborn as Muslim…. ka Karara Jawaab milega !
I feel so proud when I se mainstream muslims doing well in Indian society and living as Indian…
I believe that Modi is NOT the future for this country and we need someone like Vajpayee jee ……
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November 20, 2012 at 5:59 AM
@omrocky
LOL! I
Almost missed this comment. There’s so much traffic here all of a sudden.
I too don’t care for politicians, but object to glorifying one who shouldn’t be, who according to me was not ruthless and selfish like ‘other’ politicians. He was beyond even that.
I definitely feel bad about the destruction of many things including the temples by the muslim invaders (also those Budha statues in Afghanistan), and a lot of written stuff was burned during these invasions (it breaks my heart to think of all that written word going up in flames).
According to my way of thinking, none of this will ever be restored, it happened a long time ago, one has to see to the present and not carry on and on about what has been lost.
And I fail to really understand what all these policies of such parties wish to achieve. That’s why it was a genuine question to you.
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November 18, 2012 at 5:42 PM
November 15, 2012
Movie Review
Infidelity, Grandly Staged
By A. O. SCOTT
Bad literary adaptations are all alike, but every successful literary adaptation succeeds in its own way. The bad ones — or let’s just say the average ones, to spare the feelings of hard-working wig makers and dialect coaches — are undone by humility, by anxious obeisance to the cultural prestige of literature. The good ones succeed through hubris, through the arrogant assumption that a great novel is not a sacred artifact but rather a lump of interesting material to be shaped according to the filmmaker’s will.
The British director Joe Wright has seemed to me — up to now — to belong to the dreary party of humility. His screen versions of Jane Austen’s “Pride and Prejudice” and Ian McEwan’s “Atonement” are not terrible, just cautious and responsible. For all their technical polish and the admirable discipline of their casts, those films remain trapped in literariness. Instead of strong, risky interpretations, they offer crib notes and the pale flattery of imitation. The proof of their mediocrity is that admirers of Austen or Mr. McEwan will find no reason for complaint.
Mr. Wright’s “Anna Karenina” is different. It is risky and ambitious enough to count as an act of artistic hubris, and confident enough to triumph on its own slightly — wonderfully — crazy terms. Pious Tolstoyans may knit their brows about the stylistic liberties Mr. Wright and the screenwriter, Tom Stoppard, have taken, but surely Tolstoy can withstand (and may indeed benefit from) their playful, passionate rendering of his masterpiece.
The challenge of “Anna Karenina” is that Tolstoy’s loose and baggy monster of a novel is more than large, bigger than great: it is comprehensive. As it glides among its many characters, reading their thoughts and dissecting their desires, the book becomes a vivid panorama of an entire society, you might even say a whole species. “Anna Karenina” does not take place, as movie-trailer voice-overs might say, “in a world” of such and such exotic customs. The book lives in the world, in the busy, contingent present tense of mid-19th-century Imperial Russia, which contained everything Tolstoy knew. To try to reproduce that world according to the canons of 21st-century movie realism would be to diminish and falsify his narrative, which ascends through cultural and social detail into a realm of universal emotion.
Mr. Wright’s brilliant gamble is to arrive at this level of emotional authenticity by way of self-conscious artifice. The cities of Moscow and St. Petersburg are rendered as elaborate stage sets. (Sarah Greenwood is the production designer.) Characters make their way around props, past painted backdrops and through catwalks, ropes and backstage rigging. You get the sense that in these bureaucratic offices, ministerial meetings and aristocratic households, everyday life is a form of theater. To play your part in this intricately hierarchical society you must speak your lines, hit your marks, know your place and beware of improvisation.
But the film itself is the very opposite of stagy. The camera hurtles through the scenery as if in hungry pursuit; the lush colors of the upholstery and the costumes pulsate with feeling; the music (by Dario Marianelli) howls and sighs and the performances are fresh, energetic and alive. Compressing the important events of Tolstoy’s thousand pages into an impressively swift two hours and change, Mr. Wright turns a sweeping epic into a frantic and sublime opera.
The principal diva is Keira Knightley, her hair dyed black, her cheekbones veiled and her slender frame encased in gowns that function like satin mood rings. We sometimes talk about characters having arcs, but Anna Karenina is more like a human wave tank, rising and falling according to the contradictions of her temperament. The loyal, bored wife of a dry, virtuous government official (played with heartbreaking tact by Jude Law), Anna travels from St. Petersburg to Moscow to calm a marital storm in the household of her brother, Stiva Oblonsky (Matthew Macfadyen), who has been cheating on his wife, Dolly (Kelly Macdonald).
Oblonsky’s adultery foreshadows what is perhaps the most famous infidelity in literature, though his philandering is also trivial compared to the affair that Anna will pursue with Count Vronsky, a young military officer. I assume you know that it ends badly, but Mr. Wright’s real interest, like Tolstoy’s, is in everything that happens in between Anna’s first meeting with Vronsky and her final encounter with the wheels of a train. Aaron Taylor-Johnson, with curly blond hair, a crisp white uniform and the kind of mustache that would have melted hearts in an Upper West Side singles bar around 1974, turns Vronsky into a pretty, impulsive enigma. He has the eyes of a poet, but it is hard to shake the suspicion that this would-be romantic hero is, at heart, a shallow hedonist dominated by his imperious mother (Olivia Williams).
The possibility that Vronsky might not be worthy of Anna is a source of the agonizing pathos that follows their initial, headlong bliss. Their sun-dappled season of sexual ecstasy is followed by recrimination, insecurity and punishment. But the Anna-Vronsky folie à deux is hardly the only story “Anna Karenina” has to tell. “Why do they call it love, anyway?” Dolly’s younger sister, Kitty, asks in the throes of girlish romantic disappointment. Her sister replies, “Because it’s love,” and the whole movie can be taken as an unpacking of this apparent tautology — as a study in the varieties of love.
Kitty, a young woman of almost unbearable loveliness played by the Swedish actress Alicia Vikander, is adored by Levin, a gloomy ginger-haired rural landowner. (“Harry Potter” fans will be pleased to see Domhnall Gleeson, the former Bill Weasley, in this role.) Levin is widely understood to be Tolstoy’s alter ego, and his idea of love — as the pure, ennobling union of souls — is an idealistic rebuke to the cynical amorality that festers in the cities. When it visits Levin, the film exchanges the trappings of theatricality for a lyrical naturalism, inhaling the fresh air of open fields and the homely aromas of a drafty wooden manor house.
Levin’s ardent goodness — his devotion to Kitty is connected to his belief in social justice and his faith in God — stands in contrast to Oblonsky’s cheerful selfishness, Karenin’s stern morality and Vronsky’s immature swooning. And “Anna Karenina,” in spite of the complicated woman at its center, is in many ways a study in the varieties of male behavior. This is partly because the world it depicts is one in which, as one character notes, the rules are made for and by husbands and fathers. It is men who act and choose, while women suffer, wait and watch.
How you measure the distance between that world — a bygone reality if you are reading Tolstoy; a constructed one if you are watching Mr. Wright’s movie — and the one we inhabit will be a matter of perspective. Mr. Stoppard and Mr. Wright offer “Anna Karenina” and its heroine to the gods of melodrama, who receive her gladly. But their film, wild and emotional as it is, does not quite hit the deep, resonant note of tragedy that would lift it above the merely (by which I mean the merely very) good. At the end you may be dazzled, touched and a bit tired. But, really, you should feel as if you had been hit by a train.
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November 18, 2012 at 5:59 PM
I put up this review here for a few reasons..
Obviously it’s a very well-written piece but it also gets to the heart of many discussions on this blog on a variety of related matters. First off, there is a thinking behind it that one can follow and then agree or disagree with. Earlier I saw some of Alex’s views on Rangan that I totally disagree with but that I also find completely wrong-headed in terms of figuring out what this critic is about. With the latter once again one can disagree with a lot of things but one is always clear about where he [Rangan] is coming from. And it’s not about taking a few reviews but looking at the entire arc of his writing in terms of his thinking or understanding how his perspectives on cinema inform his writings. Again this doesn’t mean one cannot agree with him but that larger arc has to be considered. Alex’s idea that somehow Rangan has a condescending take on Bollywood is simply wrong. There is no debate to be had here. One can take issue with other views of Rangan but the idea that he looks down on most of Bollywood just does not pass the basic smell test.
But secondly note how A O Scott isn’t simply ‘thinking’ about whether Anna Karenina is an ‘enjoyable’ film or not in isolation. He also isn’t asking absurd questions like ‘is it better than most Hollywood films?’ and so on. He is quite appropriately examining the ‘interpretation’ this movie offers of its source. How the translation works from one medium to another, how defensible the choices might be, how imaginative the aesthetic options employed.. etc. It is quite clear from the review that ultimately Scott considers this film some sort of failure though a worthwhile one and where one could also learn a great deal from the director’s choices.
This film is an adaptation but the central questions animating every important review are the same. It’s not just about a set of impressionistic choices but also a ‘thinking’ of cinema that is brought forth in the writings of any significant critic. They don’t have to be theorists of cinema but they do ‘think’ the films they watch for something more than a serviceable narrative or basic entertainment value. Often in debates on this blog (not only here) too much of the writing from one member or another is misunderstood on these grounds. Even moreso objections to a film even when seriously backed up by such a ‘thinking’ are considered to be flowery attempts at working through an agenda, related to a star or director or what have you.
Once more no one has to agree with anything no matter how well-argued but it is important to understand what is being said. Because certain kinds of views should be taken seriously even when one disagrees with everything and others shouldn’t even when one agrees with all that is being said. We all have a right to our views, I’m not creating a hierarchy here. At the same time it would be absurd to just level the playing field completely and for example suggest that the difference between Rangan and Taran Adarsh or that between Rangan and Khalid Mohd is simply a matter of taste. There is only one ‘thinker’ here among these names!
I should lastly emphasize the ‘impressionistic’ bit. Scott doesn’t say stuff like ‘the film really spoke to me’, ‘it touched my heart’, ‘it changed my life’, etc etc. A good critic will indulge in these personal moments from time to time but these will never constitute the essential argument of the review. In many other cases entire pieces are put together this way. One is none the wiser by the end. So yeah someone got spiritual enlightenment watching a film, the person next to her didn’t, and that’s the end of the matter! That’s a prescription for democracy, not one for serious opinion!
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November 18, 2012 at 6:19 PM
Good note Satyam and a ‘back to form’ one indeed
“That’s a prescription for democracy, not one for serious opinion!”
Is the “take home point”
Also –in certain things, one can “agree to disagree” as long as one is not “disagreeable”
Also certain points about rangans leaving IIT & changing paths to apparently “follow a dream” & to where ?–golmaals, Bol bachxhans and creatively deconstructing them
I know his worth and hence it irked me somewhat that he is paining himself to ‘review’ these ‘works’
I think the plane of thought missed most here …
But I repeat –that the above analytical piece proves and vindicates my earlier stand that interms of ‘content’ & ‘relevance’ ( not witty creative writing and eye catching vignettes) Satyam is ahead of rangan
And knowing me -u can be assured that I don’t praise u for the sake if it (like many others here) 🙂
Ps: this movie should bring forth another version of the complicated woman onscreen ( as if there aren’t already enuf around) hahaha
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November 18, 2012 at 6:52 PM
love the last line. shallow minds all over internet are advocating democracy in these matters. anybody who doesn’t love anything put out by these creatively bankrupt film-makers is labelled as narrow-minded and pretentious. and you are told to look at box office numbers because hey, people love this crap, so who are you to think you are above the aam junta’s verdict? thing is, public has already voted for these with their money. democracy is freedom to watch anything you want. doesn’t mean i have to vote for it with my opinion too. my freedom to not like it, or not even give it my attention or money or criticize it if i didn’t like it is equally important. these days, to go with popular opinion (i.e. to be a cipher with no personality or opinion of your own) is considered cool. watching salman khan films is cool because they make 200-minus-something cr, no matter he was considered a has-been joke 3 years ago. taking your foreigner friends to watch mediocre bw films is cool so they can patronizingly find them cute. and to not know the body of work of a renowned reviewer or understand his sensibility or the nuance of his writings is cool because he can just be dismissed as a smart-alec who looks down upon films you are forced to enjoy because you don’t have much choice, it’s not like there are so many better options out there. i don’t agree with rangan or ebert most times (i feel they are too nice about most films that don’t deserve it), but i enjoy their writings nonetheless. but the biggest argument being thrown around these days is numbers (even when they are sub-par or exaggerated or don’t tell the whole story) because most people can’t articulate an actual argument.
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November 18, 2012 at 7:18 PM
Oops hahha another ‘lethal missile attack’–I’m enjoying it…
Time to duck and run into the (waiting) arms of Oldgold and Amy for some box office discussions (read TLC–‘tender loving care’)
But Amy –no more probing questions over my whereabouts in Europe –the only thing u haven’t asked me is my exact address –c’mon I’m a shy guy–i cant be seen to be arranging dates in london here, u know—u truly are ‘living’ your anushka role, Amy 🙂
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November 19, 2012 at 5:59 PM
Sm seems to have come a long way from her early days here she used to fantasise and go orgasmic about some superlative Salman performances like veergati, love love love (was that the movie?) and hello brother …
Now when Salman is ACTUALLY doing something worth appreciating, sm doesn’t talk much about it
If I remember correctly– haven’t heard sm talking about ETT/bg/ready-other maguc opus true blockbuster
Don’t worry sm–not pulling your leg–u are v ‘sensitive’ and don’t want u to withdraw into your shelf
And Amy- i know u don’t mind me ‘pulling your legs’ –(my suspicion is u enjoy it though 🙂 chillax
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November 18, 2012 at 8:22 PM
@Antya: The tension between popular and “high” culture has always existed. I do count it as a triumph of democracy that nowadays the two are given equal respect, at least in the west. No respected critic worth the name ever refers to any film, no mater how dire it may be, with the kind of terms you have used. It is this kind of judgemental terminology which sets apart film discussions in India from other places. In other words, whether one is actually capable of understanding and/or appreciating the “high” culture arts, one can always pretend to have reached those heights by looking down on the popular culture.
When anything attains popularity, a student or scholar of society strives to understand the reasons for its popularity. To merely dismiss all popular entities with monickers such as “crap” is showing one’s own narrow mindedness. In the U.S. one finds thousands of books analyzing and interpreting the appeal of the Star Wars films, for instance. One even has university courses on the Star Trek TV series. Neither of these is exactly “high art”, but they nevertheless inspired devotion from millions of people. It is worthwhile trying to understand why. There are also many university courses devoted to understanding the appeal of such phenomena as soap operas on TV or the vampire films and books. While some think of this as proof of how universities waste taxpayers’ money, the main point is that studying such subjects leads us to understand the society and culture of that work of art in question (and yes, in this sense they are all works of art). When one does study the matter, one often finds solid craftsmanship underneath the seeming banality, as well as important markers of the culture’s development in time. I think this is the kind of “thinking” Satyam referred to in his post.
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November 18, 2012 at 8:44 PM
nowhere did i say all popular art is crap. neither is what some may consider ‘high art’ liked, understood or experienced the same by everybody. i like my share of pop culture phenomenon that many may consider beneath them. but that’s no reason for me to attack those people as judgmental and elitist. and there are plenty of very respected critics out there who gleefully shred various forms of popular entertainment to pieces in much worse terms. Check out ebert’s ‘your movie sucks’ files. i apologize for not being elegant enough in my criticism. the point is i don’t have to jump on one bandwagon or another.
and i don’t know how many times one can belabor the same point, but both high and low end entertainment can be done well or not. all popular masala films are not the same, they can be excellent or ‘crappy’ as i like to call them with my limited vocabulary. just as all low-budget indie films are not good (very few of them are). the fact that people study why some low end pop culture phenomenon become so and what they say about society is hardly reason to like them. i am not sure what that has to do with anything. i have read lots of excellent pieces on the twilight phenomenon but nothing will make me buy a ticket to go watch one of those movies.
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November 18, 2012 at 9:01 PM
But you are still operating from the “liking or not liking” viewpoint, not the “thinking” viewpoint that Satyam was describing above.
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November 18, 2012 at 9:12 PM
no i am not but we are just going in circles, so time to end this.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:33 AM
@antya
>my freedom to not like it, or not even give it my attention or money or criticize it if i didn’t like it is equally important.
No one is denying that.
It’s a case of “how” and NOT “why”
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November 19, 2012 at 5:38 PM
Nice exchange there sm, anya, Oldgold –keep it up 🙂
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November 19, 2012 at 5:48 PM
Btw Oldgold–thanx for providing me & amy ‘shelter’ yesterday nite
Btw can we have food as well next time–we can’t cook u know
🙂
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November 19, 2012 at 6:09 PM
As for anya –she currently enjoys ‘immunity’
She is always right –don’t mind her ‘missiles’ 🙂
“Check out ebert’s ‘your movie sucks’ files. i apologize for not being elegant enough in my criticism. the point is i don’t have to jump on one bandwagon or another.”– Aahaa
Btw lovely (& educational for me) interaction there btw anya & sm
Now 4 sum more work (hopefully)
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November 18, 2012 at 8:05 PM
@Satyam: I’d say even among the trio of Rangan, Anupama Chora, and Rajeev Masand, there is only one “thinker.” I bring up these two other names because they, especially Chopra, proclaim themselves to be heroically bearing the white man’s burden (I use this phrase advisedly) to “educate” and “civilize” the masses on what cinema is all about.
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November 18, 2012 at 9:27 PM
agreed completely.. actually I can’t stand Masand..
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November 18, 2012 at 5:52 PM
Thanx to this timely link
Should be worth just for how wright depicts st peterberg of that era –a place that still resonates with character
“. We sometimes talk about characters having arcs, but Anna Karenina is more like a human wave tank, rising and falling according to the contradictions of her temperament” –ah another complicated woman –though kneightly isnt a great choice
Apparently this is better than the previous version -the Sophie Marceau one
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November 18, 2012 at 6:05 PM
Anna Karenina and Gone with the Wind. One depicts an insecure woman and another a confident or a ruthless one. Both are selfish and both are beautiful. Seems only very beautiful women inspire writers. And the men must be dashing, confident and dismissive to get that hero tag.
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November 18, 2012 at 6:28 PM
two of the most enduring female characters in literature are elizabeth bennett and jane eyre. though elizabeth is pretty enough, they are both known for being headstrong, opinionated females, definitely not for beauty. i know what you are saying, not that this stereotype does not exist. it does, because all kinds of popular art caters to human fantasies. but these writers have also managed to write gripping stories and ultimately it’s the stories that fire up people’s imagination.
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November 18, 2012 at 10:18 PM
H’mm, what about Becky Sharp?
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November 19, 2012 at 7:51 PM
Dorothea from Middlemarch. Possibly the greatest book ever written. And what a character!
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November 18, 2012 at 6:38 PM
Sanju- good point– your crisp one-liners are a by-product of a certain ‘clarity of thought’ & a certain ‘ direction of mentation’–keep it up
Yeah this ‘raw material’ (as u mentinoned) is taken, peppered up and served to the public used to contrast and unambiguity to fathom something remotely complex
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November 18, 2012 at 7:23 PM
Final ‘Twilight’ Movie Tops Weekend Box Office
By BROOKS BARNES
The final “Twilight” movie arrived in North America in time for the weekend — the gooey end of an era for some, not a moment too soon for others — and took in an estimated $141.3 million. Made for about $120 million by Lionsgate’s Summit Entertainment, “The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn — Part 2” was easily the No. 1 movie in the land (including overseas, where it took in an additional $199.6 million). Still, it did not smash opening-weekend records, as some analysts had hoped; adjusting for inflation, “The Twilight Saga: New Moon” sold $154 million in tickets in November 2009.
“Skyfall” (Sony) was second at North American theaters over the weekend, taking in about $41.5 million, for a two-week total of $161.3 million, according to Hollywood.com, which compiles box-office data. Riding raves from critics and backed by a no-stone-unturned marketing campaign, Steven Spielberg’s “Lincoln” (DreamWorks Studios via Disney) was a strong third, selling about $21 million in tickets in its first weekend of wide release, for a new total of $22.4 million. The weekend performance for “Lincoln” is noteworthy because the movie played in only 1,775 locations (compared with 4,070 for “Twilight”) and because older moviegoers, the group most likely to see “Lincoln,” tend to avoid opening-weekend hype. “Wreck-It Ralph” (Disney) was fourth, taking in $18.3 million, for a three-week total of $121.5 million; Paramount’s “Flight” was fifth, selling about $8.6 million in tickets, lifting its three-week total to $61.3 million.
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November 18, 2012 at 7:26 PM
Bond franchise totals:
http://boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=jamesbond.htm
Adjusting for inflation Thunderball is supposed to be the most successful ever. Skyfall has fallen 53% which is pretty good all things considered.
Lincoln is of course doing extraordinarily well.
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November 18, 2012 at 7:52 PM
For some reason Skyfall got good critic reviews but audience reviews have been rather lukewarm. Many friends and coworkers have seen it and most of them say it is below average. I haven’t met a single person who has wholeheartedly said it is a good movie and recommended it.
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November 18, 2012 at 8:03 PM
!!!!! probably this is one the top 3 best bond movies – imo
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November 19, 2012 at 12:06 AM
saw it last night and IMO casino royale (2006) was a notch above this one. Skyfall was more about the solid acting than about the script. this was the most melodramatic bond movie probably ever.
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November 19, 2012 at 12:15 AM
next up for me among hollywood movies is Lincoln, then the hobbit, and finally end the year with Jack Reacher and Django (the D is silent)!
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November 18, 2012 at 7:27 PM
more comprehensive report here:
http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3570&p=.htm
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November 18, 2012 at 10:38 PM
Amusing article on Kim Jong-Il’s passion for cinema- has anyone seen a North Korean film?
“In pursuit of his filmic ambitions, Kim also kidnapped Shin Sang-ok, a prolific South Korean director, and his glamorous actress wife, Choi Eun-hee. He had lured them to Repulse Bay in Hong Kong and then one night, a sack soaked in a chloroform-like substance was pulled over Shin’s head.”
http://isismagazine.org.uk/2011/07/kim-jong-ils-cinema-club/
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November 19, 2012 at 5:29 AM
Why I can’t pay tribute to Thackeray – Hon’ble Justice Katju (Retired Judge, Apex Court)
His bhumiputra theory flies in the face of our Constitution and works against the unity needed to ensure development
Muppadhu kodi mugamudayal
Enil maipuram ondrudayal
Ival Seppumozhi padhinetudayal
Enil Sindhanai ondrudayal
(This Bharatmata has 30 crore faces
But her body is one
She speaks 18 languages
But her thought is one)
Tamil poet Subramania Bharathi
Bhedad gana vinauyanti bhinnah supajapah paraih
Tasmat samghatayogesu prayateran ganah sada
(Republics have been destroyed because of internal divisions among the people;
Hence a republic should always strive to achieve unity and good relations among the people)
Mahabharat, Shanti Parva, chapter 108, shloka 14
Tesam anyonyabhinnanam svauaktim anutisthatam
Nigrahah panditaih karyah ksipram eva pradhanatah
(Therefore the wise authorities should crush the separatist forces trying to assert their strength)
Mahabharat, Shanti Parva, 108:26
Political leaders, film stars, cricketers, etc. are all falling over one another to pay tribute to the late Bal Thackeray. Amidst this plethora of accolades and plaudits pouring in from the high and mighty, I humbly wish to register my vote of dissent.
I know of the maxim De mortuis nil nisi bonum (of the dead speak only good), but I regret I cannot, since I regard the interest of my country above observance of civil proprieties.
What is Bal Thackeray’s legacy?
It is the anti-national ‘sons of the soil’ (bhumiputra) theory.
Article 1(1) of the Indian Constitution states: “India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.”
Thus, India is not a confederation but a union.
Article 19 (1) (e) states: “All citizens shall have the right — to reside and settle in any part of the territory of India.”
Thus, it is a fundamental right of a Gujarati, south Indian, Bihari, U.P.ite, or person from any other part of India to migrate to Maharashtra and settle down there, just as it is of Maharashtrians to settle down in any part of India (though there are some restrictions in J&K, and some North-East States, due to historical reasons).
The bhumiputra theory states that Maharashtra essentially belongs to Marathi people, while Gujaratis, south Indians, north Indians, etc. are outsiders. This is in the teeth of Articles 1(1) and 19(1)(e) of the Constitution. India is one nation, and hence non-Maharashtrians cannot be treated as outsiders in Maharashtra.
The Shiv Sena created by Thackeray attacked south Indians in the 1960s and 70s, and vandalised their restaurants and homes. In 2008, Biharis and U.P.ites living in Mumbai (the bhaiyyas who eke out a livelihood as milk and newspaper vendors, taxi drivers etc.) were described as infiltrators and attacked, their taxis smashed, and several beaten up. Muslims were also vilified
This, of course, created a vote bank for Thackeray based on hatred (as had Hitler, of whom Thackeray was an admirer), and how does it matter if the country breaks up and is Balkanised?
Apart from the objection to the ‘sons of the soil’ theory for being anti-national and unconstitutional, there is an even more basic objection, which may rebound on Thackeray’s own people.
India is broadly a country of immigrants (like North America) and 92-93 per cent of the people living in India today are not the original inhabitants but descendants of immigrants who came mainly from the north-west seeking a comfortable life in the sub-continent (see the article ‘What is India?’ and the video on the website kgfindia.com ).
The original inhabitants (the real bhumiputra) of India are the pre-Dravidian tribals, known as Adivasis (the Bhils, Gonds, Santhals, Todas, etc.) who are only 7-8 per cent of our population today.
Hence if the bhumiputra theory is seriously implemented, 92-93 per cent of Maharashtrians (including, perhaps, the Thackeray family) may have to be regarded as outsiders and treated accordingly. The only real bhumiputra in Maharashtra are the Bhils and other tribals, who are only 7-8 per cent of the population of Maharashtra.
Several separatist and fissiparous forces are at work in India today (including the bhumiputra theory). All patriotic people must combat these forces.
Why must we remain united? We must remain united because only a massive modern industry can generate the huge wealth we require for the welfare of our people — agriculture alone cannot do this — and modern industry requires a huge market. Only a united India can provide the huge market for the modern industry we must create to abolish poverty, unemployment and other social evils, and to provide for the huge health care and modern education systems we must set up if we wish to come to the front ranks of the most advanced countries.
Hence I regret I cannot pay any tribute to Mr. Bal Thackeray.
http://justicekatju.blogspot.in/2012/11/why-i-cant-pay-tribute-to-thackeray.html
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November 19, 2012 at 5:44 AM
But they have this “bhumiputra” concept in lots of parts of India, don’t they? Constitutional or not. For instance, in Hyderabad, they have the concept of “mulki”, ie., one who is born in Nizam, who get preferential treatment for things like college admission, certain government jobs, etc. So it’s not unique to Mumbai.
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November 19, 2012 at 6:11 AM
@sm
– I guess i am not expert on concepts, etc and with zero knowledge on religion etc, cant comment.
– I can say onething about Constitution, it is supreme, anything violating the constitution is nul, void ab initio. We the People of this Country gave ourselves this Constitution.
– I dont know if the concepts violates the Constitution. That is for every person to person to decide, i havent applied my mind, read something and posted for others to read and decide. I have no comments of my own!
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November 19, 2012 at 6:37 AM
There’s no religion involved in the concept of “bhumiputra” or “mulki”, as it only refers to the place where one is born. Since Mr. Katju above claimed this is against the constitution, I mentioned the word unconstitutional.
In any case, there are lots of things that are in the constitution which are either being ignored or not implemented.
Now I’ve read a bit more of Mr. Katju’s letter or article, and if he seriously claims that 92-93% of India’s inhabitants are immigrants, well, I have nothing further to say.
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November 19, 2012 at 1:02 PM
There is reservation / preference for locals in almost all the professional degree colleges (Engg, Medicine), in Mumbai, Hyderabad etc. As far as I know 50% (maybe less) of the seats in RECs (Now NITs) are for locals – the state in which the college is. Atleast it used to be that way when they were RECs. And medical colleges all over India too have that rule (but not aiims, afmc etc). State jobs I think are more severe.
and WTF, we are now a land of immigrants???
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November 19, 2012 at 5:38 AM
21-year-old girl arrested for Facebook post slamming Bal Thackeray
Police on Sunday arrested a 21-year-old girl for questioning the total shutdown in the city for Bal Thackeray’s funeral on her Facebook account.
Another girl who ‘liked’ the comment was also arrested.
The duo were booked under Section 295 (a) of the IPC (for hurting religious sentiments ) and Section 64 (a) of the Information Technology Act, 2000. Though the girl withdrew her comment and apologized, a mob of some 2,000 Shiv Sena workers attacked and ransacked her uncle’s orthopaedic clinic at Palghar, north of Mumbai.
The 21-year-old arrested for her Facebook post was among many who aired opinions on social networking sites.
“Her comment said people like Thackeray are born and die daily and one should not observe a ‘bandh’ (city shutdown) for that,” Police Inspector Uttam Sonawane told the Mumbai Mirror.
Despite widespread concerns, there were no reports of unrest in Mumbai itself on the day of Bal Thackeray’s crematon.,
In recent months, the country has shown sensitivity to criticism of its politicians, sparking criticism in turn from freedom of speech campaigners.
In September, campaigners were outraged by the arrest in Mumbai on charges of sedition of a cartoonist for his anti-corruption drawings. The charges were later dropped.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/21-year-old-girl-arrested-for-Facebook-post-slamming-Bal-Thackeray/articleshow/17276979.cms
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November 19, 2012 at 5:46 AM
Well, haven’t they recently passed a law that people can be jailed for posting “disrespectful” things about politicians on the net, FB, Twitter, etc.? That’s the basis on which that cartoonist was jailed, wasn’t it? So again, this is not something unique to Shiv Sena. In fact, the legislation was passed by the UPA government.
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November 19, 2012 at 5:46 AM
Sorry, didn’t read the whole article before commenting. The same points were mentioned toward the end of the article.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:31 AM
and APPARENTLY, India’s still a democracy!
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November 19, 2012 at 7:31 AM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Collects 75 Crore Nett Over Its Extended Weekend
Monday 19th November 2012 11.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak Hai Jaan has collected 75 crore nett approx over its extended six day weekend. The all India collections on Sunday were lower than Saturday as Maharashtra was shut at many places due to the funeral of Shiv Sena leader Balasaheb Thackeray. The film collected around 9.25 crore nett on Sunday.
The film suffered more in Maharashtra than Son Of Sardaar as the film was recording higher collections before the shutdown. The film collected 45 core nett in the first three days and 30 crore nett in the next three days and suffered to the tune of 3.75 crore in Maharashtra.
The territorial figures of the extended weekend will be published in the evening.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:34 AM
so they’re basically saying the film would have had 78.75 crores instead of 75 crores. This is hardly an earth-shattering difference and doesn’t explain the 45 crore versus 30 crore differential for first 3 days versus next 3 (competition was the same in either case).
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November 19, 2012 at 8:52 AM
Now it is 74 crore and 58 crore on the website.
Both are lower than I would have expected after the first 3 days even accounting for decline in business in territories.
For a big film to post pretty weak numbers on Sunday is surprising. Fair to say the Tuesday release exhausted the audiences largely.
Today is the big day really. JTHJ is declining faster but probably is more a youths film so could be better during weekdays. Who knows. But not going to get close to 130 crores + now. More like 110-125 crores now. SS might just get to 100 crore but thats not a given.
Going by screens think JTHJ had 2,500 and SOS had 2,000. So it was roughly a 55%/45% split with clearly JTHJ having “better” quality screening. The business to date is also split roughly 55%/45%.
In this sense, SOS has performed quite well to challenge a biggie, earn more than its share of collections. If the split in screens was more even, who knows, an Ajay Devgn starrer had the beating of a SRK starrer!
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November 19, 2012 at 12:00 PM
actually if you think about it SRK has had a poor or relatively poor record since 2004 (if you excludes overseas returns) with the one exception of 2007 when he had the CDI/OSO double. In ’04 he had MHN and VZ and Swades. The former did the best. the second had the biggest initial of the three though did trend all that well by the standards prevalent then. Swades didn’t do anything but got his some favorable critical attention and ultimately this isn’t the sort of film that truly hurts one even when it is a failure. But since then he’s had Paheli (didn’t work though opened well for the subject), KANK (opened big and tanked), Don (opened moderately, trended ok), CDI/OSO (both did very well), RNDBJ (opened solidly but not great, trended well), MNIK (opened moderately, trended poorly), Ra One (opened strongly with an advertising budget greater than the combined ones of all the other 100 crore films in all probability! plus the Disney effect so you have kids who couldn’t show up without parents, still didn’t have the biggest ever opening days and tanked eventually), Don2 (same story as the first one), now JTHJ (opening moderate to solid, trending might be decent but a big total by current standards is certainly not going to come about here). So you put it all together and for about 8 years you’re much more likely to get a good start for a SRK film (whether the genre is his strength one or something like Don) followed by decent trending than a spectacular one followed by good trending. The latter has only happened once with OSO. Twice he’s failed at this paradigm with KANK and Ra One. In short SRK just hasn’t been exciting the box office in this period. It’s not about comparing him with Aamir here or more recently with Salman. However one defines a film that excites the box office and many films have done it in this period, not all with marquee stars, SRK just isn’t falling in that category. Now on the overseas these numbers have remained strong for him for the most part but even here cracks have appeared. For example in the US one of the the big cornerstones of his overseas gross there’s no film of his remotely close to the 3I gross. Or RNBDJ grossed less than Ghajini here. Even leaving aside the US the fact is that his numbers even though strong are not miles ahead of the competition as they once were. Still one should grant him these overseas numbers because he’d be thrilled to have something comparable in India!
Will say again here what I’ve said for a long time. SRK has simply not been a smart manager of his brand value in a period when he needed reinvention. I have been his greatest critic for many reasons but he might have done better than he has in this period.
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November 19, 2012 at 5:37 PM
“Actually if you think about it SRK has had a poor or relatively poor record since 2004 (if you excludes overseas returns) with the one exception of 2007 when he had the CDI/OSO double”
Haha ROFL
it should be replaced with—
“Actually if you think about it SRK has had a poor or relatively poor record since 1990”
Why all this effort & ‘struggle’ ?
One can do anything on ones laptop/iPad including creative writing –does it matter though
The rest of the passage won’t be needed .. 🙂
The other interesting thing is that it is now a well established fact even by most sane srk fans that srks pull is not the same.
But it’s some of his detractors who feel the urgent ‘need’ or let’s say ‘call of lust’ to emphasise it /underline it & in a way–reassure themselves that it is indeed happening
Nothing wrong with that–but just an innocent unbiased observation 😉
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November 19, 2012 at 7:34 AM
Son Of Sardaar Collects 59 Crore Nett Over Its Extended Weekend
Monday 19th November 2012 11.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar has collected 59 crore nett approx over its extended six day weekend. The collections on Sunday were similar to Saturday as Maharashtra was shut at many places due to the funeral of Shiv Sena leader Balasaheb Thackeray. The film collected around 8.50 crore nett on Sunday.
Even in other circuits there was not the normal growth associated with a Sunday as the film had released on Tuesday. Still the film got closest to Jab Tak Hai Jaan on Sunday as that film had higher collections in the Maharashtra area so lost more than Son Of Sardaar. The film collected 34 core nett in the first three days and 25 crore nett in the next three days and suffered to the tune of 2.50 crore in Maharashtra.
The territorial figures of the extended weekend will be published in the evening.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:53 AM
again note how for a film that is more affected by current events in Maharashtra (JTHJ) the differential with SOS is just 1.25 crores! That’s nothing! So SOS loses 2.5 crores and JTHJ 3.75?!
Very roughly JTHJ has done 60% of its 6 day gross in the first 3 days, SOS has done about 40%. So the latter is more stable in this period. And again the revenue lost is not massive either way to change either film’s trajectory.
I actually thought there would be more business lost but looks like Qalandar’s initial point about this was correct.
Meanwhile Taran has JTHJ at 80 and SOS at 66. So he’s 5 crores ahead on the former with respect to BOI, and 7 on the latter.
Again compare his breakup:
JTHJ: Tue 15.23 cr, Wed 19.54 cr, Thu 14.45 cr, Fri 11.17 cr, Sat 10.38 cr, Sun 9.96 cr.
SOS: Tue 10.72 cr, Wed 16.21 cr, Thu 12.22 cr, Fri 10.12 cr, Sat 8.50 cr, Sun 8.25 cr.
BOI had a similar story, at points they had SOS even closer. But in any case barring Tue and Wed there’s never more than a 2 crore differential between the two movies. Opening day had the strongest gap. On Wed it’s a little more than 3, on THu 2, Fri 1, Sat again 2 and Sun more than 1. Taran says both films were affected in Maharashtra and doesn’t single one out as being more affected though I do agree that JTHJ was the bigger loser. But either way the numbers provided by BOI (hardly tough on SRK!) don’t suggest a game-changing difference. In fact in the larger scheme of things this loss for both films is probably negligible.
All of this once again illustrates the larger point. Neither film has truly excited the box office but SOS is doing better so far all factors considered (in India). Put differently if SOS gets to 100 crores or a bit more it would be extremely creditable for the film and even without competition it probably wouldn’t have added massively to this total. JTHJ on the other hand had a solid start, again all factors considered, but it wasn’t spectacular. Interest leading upto the release wasn’t great and clearly the WOM wasn’t very strong. With one or more of these factors those truly big numbers would have been seen. Nonetheless if it trends well it would still have done reasonably but obviously the expectation from this kind of project would not have been remotely fulfilled.
Now as for the overseas argument some are making I think this is old hat and people should call it a day on this! For years many Hollywood underperformers did vastly better overseas, specially in East Asia. No one was calling them hits in the US! Taran incidentally has 122 crores so far with overseas included. Wonder how even this combined total stacks up with just ETT’s first 5-7 days in India? LOL!
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November 19, 2012 at 2:26 PM
“wow” SOS is also doing well,glad to know that srk has a stiff competion ,ajay,salmam,amir..its good for the neutrals that bollywood is booming again
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November 19, 2012 at 7:44 AM
Copying/Pasting my own review from my site 🙂
ALRIGHT…FINALLY, it is time for the big review! JAB TAK HAI JAAN
The film starts off with Major Samar Anand (Shahrukh Khan) diffusing his 98th bomb. He is known as “The Man Who Cannot Die”. He’s very introverted and quite emotionless. Proceed forward…after the starting credits, we meet Akira Rai (Anushka Sharma), who wants to get a feature with Discovery Channel. She almost drowns in water when Samar saves her. She gets a hold of Samar’s diary. And we delve into his past, taking place in London. He works multiple jobs to earn money. He sees Meera (Katrina Kaif) and they start interacting. Samar falls for her and she falls for him. After Samar gets into an accident, Meera prays that if God lets Samar live, she will never see him. As she tells Samar, he starts becoming bitter. Now, he’s on a war with God. Akira meets Samar again, but, despite many advances, she’s rejected by Samar. How the three characters’ lives intertwine is the rest of the story.
First commendable thing about this movie is this. You must have a lot of confidence in yourself and your movie to be able to take on religion, especially in India. This war between God and Man plays with the psyche of a person and Yash Chopra did an AMAZING job with that!
In very simple words, film’s story is about love and hope.
Several times in the story, I found myself changing sides as to who should end up with Samar. Very few movies can leave a dilemma about that.
Story & Screenplay — The story is good enough, I guess. Can’t really say too much about it. It’s a very simple plot, which has a few loopholes here and there. Overall, it is a love story, which Bollywood knows how to do to perfection (in quite a few films!). Screenplay is impeccable. It needs to applauded. It is CRISP. It focuses on what the story needs it to focus on and doesn’t ever swerve from its point. 3.5/5 (Extra 0.5 point because of the unpredictability of the story…I sincerely thought Samar would die in the end and the twists and turns deserve mention. The screenplay is able to tie in the two accidents that Samar goes through extremely well. And there are a few more twists)
Characters — THIS is the forte of this film. There’s 3 lead protagonists and characterization is BLOODY BRILLIANT! There are at least five points in the movie, where character development plays an ESSENTIAL role. Without this character development, it would have been a generic love story. First of all, Meera’s character changes from a nice suave girl to a more open and fun-loving person. Then, all of a sudden, bang, she is reverted back because of some incidents. Then, after some time proceeds, she becomes the fun-loving person again. And when she is telling Samar that she can’t be with him anymore, that is Katrina’s best moment in the film. Meera’s character is brilliantly written and even so, MEERA is the weakest character of the film. Anushka’s character is developed with amazing ease and a smooth transition. Samar is the strongest character (and possibly the most likeable too). The way he changes from an upbeat guy to an introvert is great. The dilemmas that he has to face, he chooses with a thought that goes along real well with his character. The first half of the film is generally based on the flashback where Samar is this awesome guy you would wanna hang out with. Then, when Meera tells him that she can’t be with him anymore (near the end of the first half)…even though that was Meera’s character’s highest point, Samar completely steals that moment. And THAT moment is worth the price of admission. I would go watch the movie again just for this moment! “Shaadi mubarak…Done Done London…” “Samar I’m sor-” “Don’t!” … the climax of the scene consists of a SINGLE word…”Don’t”. Well done to the actors for carrying that scene well. 5/5 (one can relate to the characters really well and one can even see shadows of oneself in them. being able to relate to characters is essential in a film (esp romance))
Next is performances — Shahrukh Khan — seriously? Need I say something else??? … Fine … well he’s great. A bipolar character is tough to pull for any actor. Looks like Shahrukh studied his character REALLY well. An awesome performance from the young man who has his whole life ahead of him to an introverted, broken-hearted man with a death wish…he plays them to perfection. Anushka Sharma has a hard job. She also has a pretty high range, as far as her character is concerned. From a “heartless carefree bitch” to a ‘[trying to hide her feelings]‘ kind of woman is a tough job to do. She does it pretty well. There are some moments when she just goes over the top, but, considering the initially bubbly personality of the character, that is forgiveable. Next is the weakest link in the movie…Katrina Kaif. This is the strongest performance of her career…BUT, it still sucks. Some of the moments that Shahrukh and Anushka set up really well for her, she lets them drown. She has blank expressions. But, again, with characters so well written, this performance doesn’t take away much. Rishi Kapoor and his real life wife Neetu Kapoor appear in a small role are very loveable. Anupem Kher, as Katrina’s father, does well in the miniscule role he has. But, the one person who has to be applauded is the person who plays Zain (can’t recall his real life name), Samar’s room mate. He’s done an excellent job. 4.5/5
Direction — Some of the ideas displayed in the movie (due to the story) are completely WRONG! “feeling pity for…” etc etc … BUT, the 80 year old portrayed them with great conviction. This conviction had me thinking, for the first time in about 2, 3 years…could there be a God (even though in a couple of hours i came to the conclusion how preposterous that is)? That is tough to achieve, but, he did it. Hats off to that. The veteran just displayed his ability to handle all kinds of subjects, from action all the way to romance amazingly. This is THE love story for this generation. R.I.P. Yash ji, we will miss your movies. 5/5
The technical aspects deserve a special mention, especially the cinematography and music (music I’ll talk about in a separate section)…the cinematography captures the essence of all the locations…Kashmir, Ladakh, London. Yash Chopra, with the help of Anil Mehta, makes them look glamorous…from the lavish deserted Ladakh to the snow-filled London, it is done well. However, some of the make-up in the first half is amateurish. 3.5/5
Music — Oscar-Winning A.R. Rahman … it’s not a typical high octane soundtrack that one would expect from movies. Rather it’s an emotion based soundtrack, whose lyrics are penned by Gulzar. Most of the songs represent a character. Challa is the soul of Samar Anand (he is looking for something … something is missing from his life and he’s in its search) … Saans is Meera’s song (displays her desperation for Samar’s love) … Jiya Re is Akira’s song (for her philosophies towards life). ALL of the songs are placed really well and they all move the story along swiftly and sweetly. Instead of wasting 15 minutes explaining everything, a 5 minute song does the job and it’s much more concrete. 4.5/5 (unfortunately, as we know, Yash Ji passed away before filming the last song in Switzerland)
BUT, not everything is so well. The film drags quite a bit in the second half. The editor could have done a better job cutting a couple of scenes in the first half and quite a few scenes in the second half.
So, if you’re looking for flat-out entertainment, go watch Son of Sardaar (just a fun movie with an easily predictable plot and many predictable moments). This movie is more for those who have fallen in desperate love. They will be able to understand the soul of the movie. The movie’s plot is quite simple [almost too simple (thanks to Yash Chopra’s son Aditya Chopra (can’t believe this guy actually made the CLASSIC Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge))] but the STRONGEST thing about the film is the characterization and this characterization would have been impossible without amazing performances. Yash Chopra takes a contemporary love story of this generation and makes it into an epic love saga. Yash Chopra’s farewell project is a must watch for those who enjoy cinema. 4.5/5
Simply put, this one WILL be remembered, JAB TAK HAI JAAN, JAB TAK HAI JAAN! 🙂
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November 19, 2012 at 1:26 PM
That SRK really really does a good job in the film seems to be universally accepted (except a few pwople).
The popular opinion about direction also seems to say that the proceedings which some may not find acceptable/understandable, become easy to accept under his style of direction – which I would interpret as good.
Wht also comes through from balanced, or positive reviews is that if nothing, the film has a soul.
Not sure when I’ll get a chance of watching this
Thank you for your review Arsh.
Will read your SOS review later.
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November 19, 2012 at 1:31 PM
thanks for both reviews Arsh..
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November 19, 2012 at 2:22 PM
Arsh,
nice review arsh maybe I will go & watch jtht,sos will be @ weekend…thanks arsh for such an honest review
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November 19, 2012 at 5:15 PM
Thanx for that review arsh
U really liked srk as expected -but there seems a ‘valid reason’ here–
“Epic love saga”–hmmm
“Challa is the soul of Samar Anand (he is looking for something … something is missing from his life and he’s in its search) … Saans is Meera’s song (displays her desperation for Samar’s love) … Jiya Re is Akira’s song (for her philosophies towards life).”—good point
U missed ‘heer’
“Next is the weakest link in the movie…Katrina Kaif”–don’t think so 😉
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November 19, 2012 at 5:20 PM
Katrina Kaif in JTHJ
Perhaps for the first time in her career, katrina seems to be getting her due from the viewers in JTHJ
Err-guys had been giving her the ‘due’ but this time, there has been an unexpected ‘acceptance’ of Kat in JTHJ by some finicky females.
Came across a born katrina hater who had gone on record that she will strangulate her just to prove she is ‘lifeless’ or something of that effect
I was shocked to hear from the same person that katrina was looking v good here –I think ” and ‘ishq Shava’ were good there
As usual I wasn’t paying much attention to katrina (!!) while watching the movie so can’t comment –what do folks feel here
And I wonder what is the reason in this change in ‘stance’ of those anti katrina female viewers in this case…
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November 19, 2012 at 6:56 PM
Heer’s placement shows the union and the separation of the two lovers. That song was placed really well in intervals to move the story along at a nice pace!
She’s a GRRRRREAT dancer and she’s pretty *wolf whistle* too. But, that’s not enough. This is her BEST FILM TO DATE…but, she still sucks! that’s all lol.
I actually went with a couple of my Chinese [I JUST HAD TO MENTION THIS LOL] friends. They really liked the film albeit the long running time. But they also thought that Katrina was just not up to par. :O
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November 19, 2012 at 8:42 PM
Great Review Arsh..I am feeling jealous of SRK fans like u who enjoyed the movie so much…I was quite disappointed with the story & the film….This is the second time after MNIK where SRK gave a good performance but the story didn’t support him much.
Aditya Chopra & Karan Johar should now stop writing..Their time is gone..They should allow new writers…Aditya Chopra failed as writer but will give him full marks to him for supporting his father making the movie at this age…
This film was last hope for me because SRK will be now working with Rohit Shetty & Farah Khan and who knows next may be Sajid Khan…
I will give this movie 3/5.. 0.5 extra for SRK &Anushka’s performance…Interestingly this was the SRK’s best movie among all the movies he has done after Chak De…
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November 19, 2012 at 8:53 PM
That’s why I am saying that to rebuke the ordinary storyline, the characterization is TOP NOTCH! That’s why I enjoyed this movie…without good characterization, I would have brought this rating down to 3.5 easily.
Adi’s stories are getting lacklustre and same with KJo (but I must say MNIK is a guilty pleasure of mine. I enjoyed it a lot lol, despite the MULTIPLE flaws in the story).
Iunno, Rohit Shetty made Singham, which I enjoyed quite a bit. His first Golmaal was fun to watch too, but, his track record isn’t that great though. But, we’ll just wait and watch. I also enjoyed Farah’s MHN, but, OSO was a VERY mediocre film IMO. But then came TMK , which has got to be one of the worst films I’ve seen in my life. So, again, let’s just wait and watch haha.
For me, this is Shahrukh’s FOURTH best film of his career after Swades, Chak De and DDLJ.
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November 19, 2012 at 10:26 PM
Good grief. Where do you place Dil Se?
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November 20, 2012 at 12:29 AM
that was going to be my question as well!
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November 20, 2012 at 1:12 AM
can’t say i didn’t see this question coming after posting LOL!
After re-evaluating the maths of all these films, Dil Se… comes tied with Jab Tak Hai Jaan, followed by Kal Ho Na Ho.
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November 20, 2012 at 1:58 AM
Ummmm. Oo–kaaay, then. 🙂
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November 20, 2012 at 2:06 AM
SRK once said that when people say someone “acted well” in a particular film, they are really reacting to the character, rather than the quality of performance (this was a general observation, not limited to his own roles). Over the years since he first said this, I’ve been realizing its truth more and more. I would also add, that people think a film is “good” if they like the character, and vice versa, if they liked the film, they tend to think the actor “acted well”, whether that is the case or not. I think this is why there are frequent sweeps in Hindi film awards, where the film that is voted “best film” also generally gets the awards for
best director and best actor and actress, too. This is not the case with Hollywood awards, where each component to a successful film is evaluated separately.
Which is all a long introduction to saying, for me, SRK’s best performances have been in Dil Se-Asoka ( a tie), followed by Oh Darling Yeh Hai India. I know a lot of people can’t stand that film (though I liked it well enough), but his performance was very good. I also think, for demonstration of the sheer craft of acting, Duplicate stands very high.
I’m quite ready to take the brickbats that will surely come my way now. 🙂
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November 20, 2012 at 2:23 AM
Performance wise, I’d say Dil Se… is second in my list, after Swades. then CDI and JTHJ.
Duplicate — I didn’t like Bablu’s character…he was all cute and weird, but, it’s just not my thing I guess. But, Mannu’s character…wow, loved that. Shahrukh did that really well!
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November 20, 2012 at 2:43 AM
Re Duplicate: It’s not about “liking” the character. I was talking of the craft of acting shown by SRK in that film. Yes, he exaggerated the mannerisms of Bablu to better contrast him with Mannu. But the real tour de force came when he was acting each or those characters pretending to be the other. The way he differentiated Bablu as Bablu and Bablu playing at Mannu, and Mannu as Mannu and Mannu trying to be Bablu, were the hallmarks of an outstanding performance for me.
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November 20, 2012 at 3:04 AM
You do have a point, however, for me, I think if I’m not indulged enough into the character, then the actor can’t possibly give a good performance to it. Of course, an actor can make a pathetic character seem good, to an extent, which shahrukh did with duplicate, but, not fully.
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November 20, 2012 at 3:37 AM
A great comment here SM but with all due respect to ur views how could someone find SRK effective in that atrocious double role in Duplicate (IMO Chahat and this film are Mahesh Bhatt’s worst works. A film very similar to Duplicate is Akshay’s Aflatoon where he easily scores over SRK and watching him play the bad guy is a hoot, Akki anyways plays the baddie with elan and he was pretty the sene-stealer in Ajnabee as well)- now I do like some of SRK’s negative portrayals (I absolutely loved him in Baazigar and Raam Janne, found him ok in Darr and Anjaam and couldn’t stand him in Don, I far preferred Ajith in Billa).
Anyway amongst the ‘good and bad doubles’ Bachchan’s Don/Vijay (Don) and Ravi/Babu (Satte Pe Satta)-
“But the real tour de force came when he was acting each or those characters pretending to be the other”-
I would have thought u were talking abt Bachchan in Don. Watching him as ‘Vijay pretending to be Don’ is an absolute treat- in fact he was so good at this ‘pretension’ in this film that it seemed he was playing a triple role- Don as Don, Vijay as Don and Vijay as Vijay
DOn’t worry at least I am with u on Oh Darling…. Like the film quite a bit and enjoyed Amrish as Don Quixote. Ketan Mehta had employed parodies very well and his Naseer starrer Hero Hiralal is a very good film
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November 20, 2012 at 8:25 AM
Pretty sad career if JTHJ is a fourth best film of someone’s career in two decades!!
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November 20, 2012 at 10:00 AM
this is my opinion kiddo. it’s alright if you don’t agree with me. 🙂
I can say people are generally sensible about movies (even though the numbers are lowering).
Be what you want, do what you want, like what/who you want, dislike what/who you want, you’re a free man.
I la-oved JTHJ. It’s not exactly equivalent to dropping a bomb or something, so, I think I’ll stick to it 😉
But I really wanted to take a dig at the username if the last letter in your username was a “c” rather than an “r”…just sayin.
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November 20, 2012 at 10:23 AM
LOL at username !
While we are at it, what if we replaced the last letter of your username with an e instead of an h ???
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November 20, 2012 at 11:52 AM
[edited]
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November 20, 2012 at 12:57 PM
here’s the thing Arsh, you said something to Rajen, he responded. Frankly I would have just said ‘touche’ if I were you and walked away! You don’t get redo chances with this stuff! In any case that was a complete exchange and I think it’s best to end it there.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:49 AM
If I am allowed to do so, I will also copy/paste my Son Of Sardaar review here 😛
Okay, so, watched Son Of Sardaar. Delved into the film with low expectations, came out neither fulfilled, nor unfulfilled. Feel very mixed about SoS.
The first half is actually pretty good with joke after joke after joke. Even though some of these jokes are something that we’ve heard before, Ajay Devgan’s perfect comic timing makes them worthwhile. However, as time moves along, the movie slows down to a DRAGGING pace. The second half starts off well, but, within about 20 minutes into the second half, the excitement level starts falling by the extremes. And then, it gets worse, and worse, and the “climax” is stupid shit…applying slow-mo to every shot is not gonna stylize the film. The fight scenes would have been great (even though hell of a lot over the top) without 90% of the slow-mo used. So, the fight choreography deserves a thumb up (at least for what it is).
Story – Simple…Jassi (Ajay Devgan) goes back from London to India. Jassi and Billu’s fathers killed each other (starting a rivalry between the families). Now Billu (Sanjay Dutt) wants to kill Jassi. For some reason, Billu doesn’t hurt anyone when they’re inside his house. So, when Jassi finds out that Billu wants to kill him, he makes up excuses to stay inside the house. Here, very predictably, he falls for Billu’s sister. [fyi, almost every character in this film has an IQ lower than that of a mentally retarded person] 2.5/5
(From this simple plot, a TON of funny moments are possible, but the film barely scratches the surface of many multi-layered jokes. Even so, most of these jokes are somewhat to quite funny. So, they work well, mostly because of Devgan.)
Script/Screenplay – Even though the first half of the film could be cut down by about 10 minutes, it manages to be really quite crisp. The overall film should have been cut down by at least 45 minutes. So, that really gives away how slow the second half was. Again, it starts out well, but, starts dragging and keeps going downhill right until the end. Sanjay Dutt’s character transformation is outright stupid. As the story is predictable from start to finish, there isn’t much to spoil. So, Sanjay Dutt’s character is angry and then all of a sudden, by a few words from his mother, he completely changes. Like U-TURN! terrible (1.5/5)
Direction – It’s pretty much a slapstick comedy. So, anyone with at least some common sense can direct a film like this. But, I guess the director did his job well enough. But, I must say that some of the shots are hackneyed and some of the scenes are just outright dumb. But overall, good enough direction for a senseless script. 3/5
Performances – Ajay Devgan NEVER goes wrong with his comic timing. He’s been improving, improving and improving his whole career. His growth, as an actor, is quite visible in this movie. He does well in a role of a Sikh Sardaar. Sanjay Dutt is Sanjay Dutt…nothing else really. Juhi Chawla makes her character loveable in a smaller role. Sonakshi Sinha’s her usual self, which is getting quite tiring. Move on Sonakshi, do something a little different PLEASE! 3/5
Soundtrack – Catchy, but, stupid. Most of the songs except for Bichdann have no need to be in the movie. I guess the placement of the title song was fair enough too. But, Rani Tu Main Raja comes out of NOWHERE. PoPo closes the movie just ridiculously. 2.5/5
Overall – If you have time to kill, or if you’re an Ajay Devgan fan (which I am), then watch this movie. Otherwise, skip it because the characters make no sense, it’s so boring that it’s exhausting, and the same old jokes are repeated with better timing.
2.5/5
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November 19, 2012 at 4:42 PM
Thanks for the review Arsh.
I’d liked Devgn in Bol Bachhan, and I think he’s a likeable actor. Those brooding looks are attractive, though nothing like the young ABsr. But after all the shady business of the release of his film I’ve started to find those brooding looks as more of a sullen look.
I find the situation/reason of his living in Billu’s house very funny LOL!
Mustn’t blame Sonakshi for doing what she does. After all what ‘do’ heroines do in films? At least she’s not relying on bikins and such for success.
I would definitely want to see this for the laughs.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:03 PM
Ajay Devgan is a GOOD actor with a pretty decent amount of range. And I’m not gonna even get involved in the legality of this matter now cuz it’s just s’thing we don’t know everything about. Plus I wasn’t a part of it, so, I can’t say anything about it. 😛
I MUST blame Sonakshi for doing wut SHE does haha. I mean, who else can I blame? It’s just getting really tiring…it’s just that by making a few tweaks to her characters from, let’s say SoS, we can paste that EXACT character into Rowdy Rathore. It’s just exhausting to see that. If a script requires a heroine to wear a bikini, she should. So, I don’t have a problem with that. Also, not all heroines do that…MANY don’t. Priyanka Chopra is not successful because of “bikinis”, she’s successful cuz she has SOME talent. She has portrayed many kind of roles from the ‘gundi’ in Aitraaz to the police officer in Don 2. It’s just the different kind of movies which matter…the same character played by the same actor…I’ve already seen it…why do I need to sit through that again? that’s all
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November 20, 2012 at 3:49 AM
Good to see a Devgn fan on the forum, chalo apne jaisa koi to mila
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November 20, 2012 at 10:04 AM
Yes, I’m proud to call myself a Devgn fan too 🙂
His most POWERHOUSE and intense performance, for me, was SINGHAM hands down! Even though his movie choices are getting kinda ‘boring’, his performances are always something worth a watch. That’s wut I love about SRK, Devgn and Aamir. I can sit through their STUPIDEST films just for their performances.
PS – used to love reading Captain Underpants
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November 20, 2012 at 11:51 AM
Among Devgan films and performances, I think Zakhm and Khakee are my favorites; I would also pick The Legend of Bhagat Singh and Kachche Dhaage…
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November 20, 2012 at 8:07 AM
>If a script requires a heroine to wear a bikini, she should. So, I don’t have a problem with that.
LOL! Of course you wouldn’t have a problem with that.
My point was, if she did that, that would also be the run of the mill thing, every other heroine is doing it…because the script requires it 😉
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November 19, 2012 at 8:15 AM
to give you some idea about the Revenue lost this is what one of the distributor says Girish Johar Girish Johar @girishjohar 5h
5cr loss total to both films from sat eve till mon afternoon cinema closure !!
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November 19, 2012 at 8:19 AM
It is a lesson for many who just dont anticipate things. From now on they can take insurance cover for unforeseen events.
They can sue god OMG style if insurance companies wont accept.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:20 AM
One more thing JTHJ recorded the best collections on Wednesday and since then there has a been fall in almost all circuits everyday.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:22 AM
“Mumbai is the great city that it is, because of Balasaheb” – Lata Mangeshkar
By Subhash K. Jha, Nov 19, 2012 – 10:54 IST
The Nightingale Lata Mangeshkar is profoundly shocked by the death of Bal Thackeray. Says the concerned songstress, “I will tell you something very honestly. Balasaheb Thackeray tthey toh Maharashtra ttha. Woh nahin toh kuch nahin hai. No one can equal what he has done for Maharashtra. We needed him to be with us for many more years. Look at the kind of turn-out his illness invited at his home Matoshree! He had a knack for forging enduring relations with people. It’s indeed a very rare gift he had. And his gift of oration! Oh, My God! Bahut kamaal ke insaan tthey.”
Says Lataji fondly, “When I heard he was unwell, I went to meet him on November 4. He told me on the phone, ‘Tum aao mujhse milne.’ I went the very same day. When I reached Matoshree no one stopped me from going straight to where he was resting. When he saw me he said, ‘Arrey zindagi bhar main alag-alag shehron mein ghumta raha hoon, logon se milta raha…ab mujhe bistar mein pada achcha nahin lag raha.'(I don’t like to be bed-ridden). I told him to eat something with the familiarity and affection that one exercises only on those very close. He said he wasn’t hungry. I insisted. Then he agreed to have soup which was brought for him. He had very little of it. He complained of a bad throat. I suggested a mixture of water and honey. Before I left I put my head on his feet as I usually do. He showered me with blessings.”
Lataji was close not just to the patriarch of the Thackeray family but the entire clan. “Raj and his wife, Uddhavji and wife and their son Aditya are all close to me. Aditya writes good poetry in English. He has published a book of poems and also done a music album. Raj sings and also plays the violin. His father was a music director. Mohd Rafi Saab had sung a Marathi song for Raj’s father. That song was a big success.”
Recalling her long association with the Shiv Sena Supremo, Lataji says, “He gave me a lot of love and respect. I knew him for a good 25 years and we were very close. I knew him from the time when he didn’t live at Matoshree. Pataa nahin kyon, Balasaheb mujhe shuroo se achche lagte tthey (I liked him right from the start).We were both very busy those days. But he would call me up regularly to ask me what I was doing. Once when I fell ill he called every single day to ask about my health, advising me affectionately on my medicines and my diet.”
Lataji can’t thank Balasaheb enough for keeping her out of politics. “He knew I am apolitical. He never discussed politics or politicians with me. He never involved me in anything political. He could’ve asked me to join the Shiv Sena and I would have not have refused him. But he knew I am not comfortable with politics. So he graciously kept me out of it. Perhaps being an artiste himself he understood the sensitivities of another artiste. Our conversations were always about the world in general. He talked to me like any member of my family and felt the same sense of protectiveness towards me and my family that my brother Hridaynath does. When I went to his house we talked about our families and friends and yes, food. One of his most enthusiastic questions to me during every visit at Matoshree was, ‘Tum kya khaogi?…Tum kaun si chai peeoogi.”
Lataji’s fondest meeting with Bala Saheb was the one years ago when he called her up and asked her to check out the auditorium that the Shiv Sena had built in her father’s memory.
Recalling that incident with a chuckle Lataji says, “Bala Saheb called and said, ‘Tere Pitajee ke naam se maine hall banaya hai. Tum aao aur bataao kaisa lagaa’. The auditorium named the Pandit Dinanath Mangeshkar hall is in Khar. I had gifted Balasaheb a painting done by my father. That is seen hanging in the front foyer of the auditorium. When I saw this, I was deeply moved.”
Sighs Lataji, “Bala Saheb had a long way to go. He had just published a new Marathi book which is selling exceedingly well. He had a very sharp mind and a terrific sense of humour. He could converse on any topic under the sun. During my most recent visit to Matoshree, Balasaheb ordered me to visit him every day. I wasn’t able to fulfill his wish. But I was going to meet him as soon as the crowds in front of his house thinned out. Maharashtra had come to a standstill because everyone was worried. People all over Maharashtra were holding yagyas and prayer meetings for his recovery. There were thousands of worried people standing under Matoshree. Aisi zindagi bahot kam logon ko milti hai. I prayed for him to recover again. My prayers are with his family.”
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November 19, 2012 at 6:48 PM
*****[edited]
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November 19, 2012 at 6:52 PM
Arsh even if it’s about a political leader please control your language..
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November 19, 2012 at 7:04 PM
hahaha … sorry Satyam…copied pasted from my facebook post lolol. BUT, I must say that the edited version pretty much covers my reaction to Thackarey “Saheb” . Thanks for making it concise and censored 😉
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November 19, 2012 at 8:08 PM
I’m confused at the disparity between what Lata/Amitabh etc etc etc are all saying abut this guy, and what Q and others have written detaling what kinda thug/terrorist/racist he was. Are the celebrities really condoning/endorsing that? Or ignoring it because of their personal relationship with him? Or doing this for show/political reasons?
And forget celebrities, why is the state giving him so much honour?
It’s all rather hard to comprehend (not that I’ve done much research other than reading a few of the links posted here.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:47 PM
Sometimes I wonder why the people who stood up for independence, going to jails etc. are so muted out nowadays. The freedom for which we struggled is slowly slipping away.
The celebrities unlike others have the privilege of relocating elsewhere than simply submitting themselves to humiliations. They may lose money wise but it is a small price to pay to say what one wants to say and to live a more free life.
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November 19, 2012 at 10:28 PM
Well, most of the people who stood up for independence and went to jails, etc. are now dead.
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November 19, 2012 at 10:22 AM
Another set of figures that differs from BOI and Taran:
SOS, JTHJ Collections Dip As Bandh Takes A Toll
by Box Office India (November 19, 2012)
It was a gloomy weekend for the new releases, which were impacted by the bandh in Maharashtra and closure of cinema halls in other parts of the country like the Nizam territory. Collections thus dropped for both Diwali releases – Son of Sardaar (SOS) and Jab Tak Hai Jaan (JTHJ) – which had opened to packed houses on Tuesday last week. Also, since the Mumbai territory brings in a large part of a film’s collections, the bandh, distributors here especially mourned the loss of business.
In Mumbai, Rajesh Thadani of Multimedia Combines says, “The business of both films was affected in Mumbai due to the sensitive situation here. While the pan-India collections of JTHJ were Rs 68 crore, those of SOS were Rs 53 crore. And owing to the bandh in Mumbai, JTHJ garnered Rs 23-24 crore while collections of SOS were around Rs 17 crore.”
G D Mehta of Bobby Arts International explains, “In the Delhi-UP circuit, the six-day collections of JTHJ were Rs 17 crore and those of SOS Rs 12-13 crore. Wave Cinemas were shut here and the collections of both films were badly affected. Today too, the response is weak.”
According to Surendra Saluja of Lakshya Movies, “The collections of SOS and JTHJ are almost neck-to-neck in East Punjab, at Rs 6.2 crore and Rs 6 crore respectively.
However, things were positive in West Bengal, where Sunit Singh of Aum Moviez says, “JTHJ continued to rule and collections here were about 75 per cent while those of SOS were 30 per cent. Today, there is a slight drop in collections.”
In Rajasthan, SOS has an edge over JTHJ. Gaurav Gaur of O’Real Imaginations says both films performed well over the weekend. SOS earned Rs 5.35 crore while JTHJ garnered Rs 4.25 crore. Today too SOS is doing well.”
In Orissa, Jeetu Khandelwal of Movie Pioneers concludes, “JTHJ is being appreciated by youngsters. The film has earned Rs 50 lakh. SOS hasn’t had an impact and has earned Rs 35 lakh
http://www.boxofficeindia.co.in/sos-jthj-collections-dip-as-bandh-takes-a-toll/
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November 19, 2012 at 10:38 AM
Rediff says mixed response and average opening.
http://www.rediff.com/movies/slide-show/slide-show-1-jthj-son-of-sardaar-greeted-with/20121119.htm
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November 19, 2012 at 12:02 PM
DK@bollywoodajjtak
Its a ridiculous reporting in the media that the #JTHJ and #SOS lost 12-14C due to closure of cinemas in Maharashtra i.e at Mumbai Curcit
DK@bollywoodajjtak
Around 500 screen got affected because of close. #JTJH lost around 2.5C Sunday & 75L Sat evening.#SOS lost around 1.75C Sun & 50 Lakh on Sat
DK@bollywoodajjtak
Cumulatively the losses for both the film #JTHJ & #SOS would be around 5.50-6C max.
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November 19, 2012 at 12:16 PM
LOL 12-14Cr!!!
Maybe on a film that was being super patrianised and loved. Not this deal.
And the reality is if the films are being loved, some of this should be made up when the cinemas open again! The proof should be in the pudding!
This is really different to when Fanaa was exempt from a region. Here the film has released and had few days of collections. The rest of the collections are down to WOM, and that is pretty average at best.
Even if you have a blank cheque and add the 12-14crore, no amount of adding is going to get it past big numbers. Reality is, SRK has had 3 big films in Ra.One, Don2 and now JTHJ and all are going to fold well well short of Dabanng, Bodyguard, ETT and 3 Idiots.
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November 19, 2012 at 4:16 PM
While I understand salman khan movies aren’t great but they tend to be enjoyable. I’m all for films which people class as mindless as long as I enjoy the movie whilst watching it but jthj is not only mindless but is torturous yet no one will call it mindless cos its a yash Chopra/ shahrukh movie. This movie is dreadful and forget logic or the loopholes it didn’t deliver on the basic need to entertain. None of the scenes made u feel love, emotion or even make you laugh. The movie can only be seen if you want to sit there to admire how beautiful katrina looks.
There’s nothing else to it.
Another point about overseas – a lot of people mention about srk power in overseas. I’m from uk – born n bred here and all three khans are equally popular and anyone who knows bollywood knows all the khans. The only reason that I can see that srk movies do better here is cos people abroad love romantic glossy movies to watch with families and also srk movies show in more cinemas than the others. I live in a small town in northern England and shahrukhs movies are always on at the local cinema but to watch salman khans movie I have to go to the nearest city. Not sure how much of an effect this has but I thort I’d put it out there.
Lastly I just feel it seems easy n a hobby to bash Salmans movie but when it comes to srks movie we can criticise them but we can’ t call them mindless or crap. Ra-one was bad and jthj was worse. I don’t care of RA-one tried to introduce something new – I want to go to the cinema and watch a good story or at the very least be entertained not be bored even if its using latest or new technology.
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November 19, 2012 at 4:35 PM
You make a number of valid points. At the same time it’s not entirely fair to say that all three actors are equally popular but that one is just getting bigger numbers because of the genre. Stars are associated with certain genres. You can’t separate the two. Moreover not every star would be equally successful in every genre. There are reasons why certain stars work well in certain genres and not in others. So credit can’t be taken away from SRK on this count.
On the rest I agree completely that certain genres are criticized more than others because they’re seen as more lowbrow. I have always talked about this. At the same time and while one can criticize both kinds of genres (romantic and say the Akshay Kumar comedy or something like Ready and BG) on grounds of meaning and depth the same is often not true on purely aesthetic grounds. In other words the average Akshay comedy also employs standards that are extremely crude in this sense. Now this isn’t true for an ETT or especially a Dabanng but it is so for many quintessential Salman films. This doesn’t mean that the Yashraj films are all fine examples of film grammar, just that at that basic level they’re often better. Having said that most people don’t have that attitude of condescension for this reason. Rather it’s because they look down on certain genres. Aamir isn’t a part of this discussion anyway because no one thinks of him as being connected with anything but superior entertainment for the most part. He’s often working with cutting edge commercial directors. No one would criticize those efforts. But yes I absolutely agree that a lot of what happens in a number of SRK romances is very crude at a variety of levels.
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November 19, 2012 at 5:08 PM
@ milliondollar–u say u live in the uk but deal in ‘million dollars’ & not pounds—how come lol
” The movie can only be seen if you want to sit there to admire how beautiful katrina looks”–thanx for reminding me–I forgot to look @ katrina during the movie—who are your favorite actors..
@jayshah
“Reality is, SRK has had 3 big films in Ra.One, Don2 and now JTHJ and all are going to fold well well short of Dabanng, Bodyguard, ETT and 3 Idiots”–thanx for that telling statement
In a career of more than two decades–this has happened for 2-3 years towards the end of that duration–tells us something about the comparative career graphs of these two..
Also the srk ‘failures’ each have grossed atleast 100crores each–just for the context
I mean–it’s uncanny how it becomes so important for some to repeat and underline every day (more so to themselves) that srk is on a decline–well, my dear friend–that’s a known fact –since ra1– what’s new in that!-but this repeated insistence tells something about this ‘anxiety’ to prove it to oneself–as if in the heart of their own hearts, they are not convinced it is happening haha–I mean-nearly fifteen years, they waited to see that happen-cant believe it themselves–what fun!
@ Satyam –why are u still hesitant about posting overseas numbers–it’s old hat to deny their importance not ‘oldhat’ to quote them..
This is NOT the same as hollywoods ‘east Asian’ successes bcos—
a) the scales of release are much much different between Hollywood and Bollywood releases in their ‘overseas’ context
b) unlike Hollywood–most Bollywood releases happen simultaneous to domestic and not staggered
c) unlike Hollywood–where these ‘overseas’ markets may not be commensurate because the other currency may infact be ‘weaker’ than the dollar, in the Bollywood context, it is the other way round
Pounds and dollars are MORE telling to the overall tally than even rupees
This is NOT to undermine the value of domestic grosses which are more important
But the way u are trying to ‘lure’ the gullibles here and to close their eyes to all overseas collections
Whilst u and most here watch movies themselves in dollars/pounds is like treating these readers like kids and thinking u will get away with it
As I said before– we shouldn’t have to wait for the abhishrek -kjo-yrf film ( if abhishrek ever gets one and kjo/yrf get a bout of indiscretion in casting him) OT get such updates
And plz don’t repeat that overseas collections won’t make much difference to JTHJ with respect to dabang/ETT/ 3I
That’s old hat and don’t repeat the same ad nauseum
Does it mean anything not equating to 3i, ETT, dabang need not even be considered
Am in the middle of some work–will check later –can we have the comparative overseas collections of JTHJ/SOS just as a start btw
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November 19, 2012 at 6:14 PM
But alex you’re playing loose with the facts. SRK wasn’t the top star the moment he stepped into the industry. And yeah check out his hit to flop ratio for the 90s. It will be eye-opening for you! a serious debate needs to be backed up with serious points and which ultimately means facts. I have listed all these movies many times before and you’ve seen the lists. and by the way the corrections begin with your ‘more than two decades’ claim. Actually he’s been in the industry for exactly two decades. Again one can have a debate on his career in all sorts of ways but it can’t begin by inventing facts. You need a firmer grasp on the history than you’re displaying. And just for the record I can pretty much recite from memory SRK’s successes and failures so I know what I’m talking about! Along the same lines when some of us have been counting how his films have performed over the last 8 years and you choose to keep saying ‘it’s just the last 2-3 years’ (incidentally something his supporters using to say at every point!) you’re either not reading or once again inventing things.
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November 19, 2012 at 7:06 PM
ROFL at this interaction between Alex and Satyam..It is a funny thing..Alex will repeat ad nauseum..and Satyam will answer till kingdom comes…
Grasp on history? Inventing facts!!
Alex, pls don’t mind…I am only laughing and enjoying the interaction..not laughing at anyone…
Let more of this continue!!
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November 19, 2012 at 7:15 PM
Ha Ann -if Satyam gets his way -he will try to scoop out srks whole career from am history annals just like an eyeball from the socket !
But these attempts meet success only on blogs (& after a peg or 2!!)
Will continue this later
Just grappling with some work deadline!!
Ps arsh–good point about ‘heer’–‘union’ & ‘separation’ rolled into one
Oh Heck-lost another minute in this !!!
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November 19, 2012 at 4:47 PM
Satyam- did you receive your gift yet ( after you voted for Obama ) ? LOL
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November 19, 2012 at 6:12 PM
LOL, I’m very disappointed. Nothing in the mail so far! I thought the Chicago guys would get theirs first!
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November 19, 2012 at 4:49 PM
Since the comments are closed at the OMG thread- IMO every Indian should watch this sensible movie……maza aa gaya !!
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November 19, 2012 at 10:37 PM
political thriller, hollywood style:
i finally caught argo and really liked it. despite knowing how it ends, it still kept me on the edge of my seat. of course some of the events and characters have been modified/fictionalized for the purposes of dramatic license, but i think they still managed to keep the basic premise and sensibility intact. it follows a very old-school format – a reluctant tortured hero-figure, a bold plan that’s initially considered in-executable, hurdles crossed to get it going, skepticism on part of the rescuees, nail-biting sequences with the sense of real danger lurking and finally victory snatched from the jaws of defeat at the last moment. it is peppered with all the traditional ingredients too – drama, suspense, hero and villain figures and hollywood, baby. but i still found some of the choices it made surprising, and in a good way. though the actual material is serious, this is not a ‘look at me, i am so serious’ movie. affleck’s previous two films are much darker in that sense. so despite being based on actual political events involving an international diplomatic crisis, this film still plays out as a thoroughly entertaining suspense drama/thriller. the hollywood sequences are almost goofy in a self-parody kind of way. but whenever the action shifts to iran, there is a sense of claustrophobia and fear, you can feel how suffocating it must be to live in such a place in that moment in history (some things haven’t changed, i guess). but the biggest surprise for me was the humor. i cannot believe how darkly and not-so-darkly funny it managed to be, there were witty one-liners galore and you get the feeling their sense of humor is the only thing these characters manage to hold on to their sanity with, in such dire circumstances. i felt there were just a couple of parts where the action lagged a little bit once he reaches the embassy but never for long. and the pace sure as hell picked up towards the end.
this is also a film bursting with talented actors in each frame. they managed to get excellent players for the all the main as well as 2-bit parts – john goodman, alan arkin, bryan cranston, victor garber are just a few of them. i thought ben affleck also fit in very well here, he was effective in what is essentially a nondescript everyman behind-the-scenes type of leading man. it does not require any great acting calisthenics but he is very subtly effective here. this is also his most fully realized film as a director and he is certainly following a clooney type career trajectory (clooney is also a co-producer here)
it is one of those rare movies that manages to combine first-rate entertainment with gritty realism in a deliciously satisfying package, and this is ultimately a very satisfying film because all is well in the end.
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November 20, 2012 at 12:52 AM
This is why I call a cute but no-nonsense unbiased take
That manages to cover the important aspects, stopping to pat/rap where needed
Also good point On the clooney influence –overall on afflecks recent career upturn as a ‘motivational element’ and also confirmed by clooneys actual presence as the co producer
More than these films–afflecks lane-changing career deal remains quite interesting…all the best to affleck
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November 20, 2012 at 5:20 AM
Thanks for the fantastic review and the heads-up Antya (would love to have a proper piece from you on any film). Sadly this one was not shown by any theatre at my place.
I especially loved this line from your piece- ” but i still found some of the choices it made surprising, and in a good way. though the actual material is serious, this is not a ‘look at me, i am so serious’ movie”- I also believe The Town was one of the best genre-films in recent times.
Also u might be interested in reading this. I don’t agree with everything here but this is a very interesting piece from Rangan on a important subject-
“There’s a special kind of heaven to be found in old things given the smallest of twists and made to seem new again.
If you’ve been following the Oscar prognosticators, you know that Ben Affleck’s Argo is a front-runner for Best Picture – at least in these pre-Lincoln, pre-Life of Pi days. This delights me not because Argo is some kind of “great movie” – in the sense of an exemplar of motion-picture art that will show post-apocalyptic civilisations what Hollywood was capable of – but simply because it’s a supremely well-executed genre movie. There’s a special kind of heaven to be found in the comfort of clichés that are presented with verve and vision – it’s only when clichés come to us lazily and apologetically that we recoil from them – and Argo is filled with reinvigorated been-there-done-that scenarios. It’s time someone recognised that edifices reassembled from Lego blocks are as worthy as those built brick by brick, and that it may actually take more skill to manipulate a large audience while respecting their patience and intelligence than to make a “great movie” that will make it to the top-ten lists of a handful of critics.
Of course, cinema as art has its place, but the trouble, often, is that the films made with towering ambition – like Paul Thomas Anderson’s The Master – end up with lots of rave reviews and not a lot of box office. These films, inevitably, are almost always one-offs. While this distinctiveness, the fact that an Anderson film is like no other filmmaker’s, is what makes these films valuable in a historical context, genre films are more valuable in the cultural context – because they reach a larger audience, and as success breeds clones (in Hollywood as elsewhere), a quality, mid-budget genre hit like Argo could, strangely, end up influencing movie-making and movie-going habits more than an idiosyncratic work like The Master (which has still done reasonably well in North America, considering its style and subject matter). More studios will finance these kinds of films. More big stars will be drawn to them. More audiences will line up for them.”
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November 20, 2012 at 9:53 AM
thanks for the kind words guys.
thanks for pointing out rangan’s piece saurabh, hadn’t read that. i know exactly what he means – the comfort of cliches, ha. cliches can be great when done well, something our film-makers don’t understand. incidentally, i still have to catch the master.
the town was a well-made film but i felt it had a been there done that feel to it, coen brothers practically made their career out of that genre and did it a lot better. found gone baby gone a better film and casey was great in it. argo is definitely affleck’s best film, you should catch it on dvd when it becomes available.
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November 20, 2012 at 11:20 AM
@ Anya:
I watched THE MASTER in the first week itself – I was the only one int he theater!! Loved it – the take-away is of course the searing performances of Phoenix and Seymour-Hoffman —
Here’s my take –
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November 20, 2012 at 11:49 AM
I was quite sore The Master didn’t get a release at my end; my only hope is to hold out for Oscar season (if the film gets an award it will likely show up in Bombay)…
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November 20, 2012 at 2:58 PM
hadn’t seen this. i try to avoid reviews until i watch the film, but this is so well-written and comprehensive. psh is one of the best actors working today and there is jp too. i’ll catch the film on dvd/netflix probably.
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November 21, 2012 at 1:34 AM
“coen brothers practically made their career out of that genre and did it a lot better.”-
Would disagree a bit here Antya. The thing is unlike The Town, Coen Bros’ films are never ‘straight-genre’ efforts (whether it is Raising Arizona or Ladykillers or Fargo), what they do exceedingly well is that they take a genre and twist it on its head (the only exception which comes to my mind is their True Grit remake which I did not particularly like though I can never be too harsh on a Damon film. I thought the 3:10 To Yuma was a better remake than this though and of course No Country was awesome but then again this wasn’t a true Western so my point stands)
And of course Coens have made much better films than The Town but IMO Town is how u make a well executed genre-film.
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November 20, 2012 at 1:34 PM
LOL Q bhai, at my end forget Master, Argo also didnt release!!
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November 20, 2012 at 12:36 AM
Son Of Sardaar Monday Business
Tuesday 20th November 2012 10.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar has collected around 4.25 crore nett as per early estimates on Monday. The business in the Maharashtra are was still hit on Monday due to the death of Balasaheb Thackeray and business should slowly be back to normal today in Maharashtra.
The film held up strongly in mass markets like Bihar, CI and Rajasthan and is set for a strong run in these markets. The business on Tuesday should hold well as compared to Monday as Maharashtra should record better collections.
The seven day business for the film is 62 crore nett which is slightly better than what Ajay Devgn’s last film Bol Bachchan collected.
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November 20, 2012 at 8:44 PM
Son Of Sardaar Monday Breakdown
Tuesday 20th November 2012 14.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
The Monday territorial breakdown for Son Of Sardaar is as follows.
Mumbai – 1.40 crore
Delhi/UP – 1.00 crore
East Punjab – 43 lakhs
West Bengal – 12 lakhs
Bihar – 18 lakhs
CP Berar – 25 lakhs
CI – 27 lakhs
Rajasthan – 39 lakhs
Nizam – 13 lakhs
Mysore – 10 lakhs
Others – 10 lakhs
TOTAL – 4.37 crore
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November 20, 2012 at 12:36 AM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Monday Business
Tuesday 20th November 2012 11.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Jab Tak hai Jaan has collected around 4.25 crore nett as per early estimates on Monday. The business in the Maharashtra are was still hit on Monday due to the death of Balasaheb Thackeray and business should slowly be back to normal today in Maharashtra.
The film held up better in areas dominated by premium multiplexes while mass belts recorded low collections. The business on Tuesday should hold well as compared to Monday as Maharashtra should record better collections.
The seven day business for the film is 78 crore nett. Ra.One collected 91 crore nett approx in seven days and Don 2 collected 71 crore nett approx in seven days.
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November 20, 2012 at 12:37 AM
so according to these guys on Mon JTHJ and SOS had exactly the same totals.
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November 20, 2012 at 12:40 AM
yeah, and this is even more eye opening
“The seven day business for the film is 78 crore nett. Ra.One collected 91 crore nett approx in seven days and Don 2 collected 71 crore nett approx in seven days.”
Thus the film should wrap around 100-110 ?
In an age when Barfi Makes 100, this is quite rude shock, that to when releasing on a non diwali and non holiday period.
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November 20, 2012 at 12:42 AM
Satyam– the overseas figures need a mention at least once a week of not the daily/ hourly updates on the domestic front–isn’t that reasonable ?
Btw what is the comparison cumulative of jthj v SOS till now–just curious now …
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November 20, 2012 at 8:43 PM
Jab Tak Hai Jaan Monday Breakdown
Tuesday 20th November 2012 14.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
The Monday territorial breakdown for Jab Tak Hai Jaan is as follows.
Mumbai – 1.65 crore
Delhi/UP – 1.10 crore
East Punjab – 38 lakhs
West Bengal – 24 lakhs
Bihar – 12 lakhs
CP Berar – 22 lakhs
CI – 17 lakhs
Rajasthan – 27 lakhs
Nizam – 23 lakhs
Mysore – 25 lakhs
Others – 18 lakhs
TOTAL – 4.81 crore
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November 20, 2012 at 12:38 AM
Wow anya–a brilliant review
That’s what happens when u play the central heroine character in one of my spoofs–it improves the mental (besides physical) faculties–am proud of u gal
A concise and summarising succinct take
Obviously deserving of a separate thread !
Though knowing Satyam (rishi of soty) there may be issues with that 😉
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November 20, 2012 at 1:00 AM
So, the Monday totals of both movies are practically on the same level. It’s quite obvious that SOS is trending better. The 7 days total of SOS is higher than Bol Bachan’s. It had considerably less screens than JTHJ and the latter had some kind of monopoly in some areas where SOS could have been very strong. But SOS is holding its own quite well.
It should be looked upon as a triumph for Devgan. It’s also quite obvious that SRK is in decline. 10 years back, a similar clash would have had completely different results.
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November 20, 2012 at 1:04 AM
I guess the genre is playing the role here.
Thus i feel Chennai Express would be the deciding factor. Where the genre and superstar cometogether in masala.
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November 20, 2012 at 5:35 AM
“Thus i feel Chennai Express would be the deciding factor. Where the genre and superstar cometogether in masala.”-
Look how Masala has come back to haunt SRK. He has been the flag-bearer of this movement to decimate the masala history and now when his career has hit a prolonged rough patch, he has now gone to Rohit Shetty to bail him out. Strange things happen! (btw I am waiting for the comments of those SRK fans who were making fun of Shetty, ABhishek and BB)
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November 20, 2012 at 7:49 AM
not really ….
lamhe was released with phool or kaante and dil se with pyar to hona hi tha and devgan was the best thing in kaal even though not being in lead
aside they tried level best to milk the death of chopra even had the goodwill of much hyped ett to clim best thetre with the music of rahman and lyrics of gulzar but frankly devgan is bigger and much massy actor in india currently
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November 20, 2012 at 7:54 AM
fyi:
overses and indin distributors are never same anyways…film runnning on overses has hardly had nything to do with indian distributors and exhibitors and its always indian market which decides the norm
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November 20, 2012 at 1:19 AM
Bravo Rocky!!!
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November 20, 2012 at 2:08 AM
In mumbai, the best single screens were booked for JTHJ and that became counter productive because of the latest developments.
SRK might have become a better actor in his latest flick, but now the stage is set for someone who can just entertain and amuse by antics rather than acting.
SRK has this overseas thing and that will see him through.
Ajay Devgn’s gamble paid off and now no star will be able to gobble up all the screens with impunity except perhaps Salman Khan.
The trade pundits are forced to combine the totals of 2 films instead of one to show everything is happening nicely. Pathetic!
Overseas is taken for calculating profit and loss account but not for hit status.For example,if JTHN made below 10 crores and made 50 crores overseas, will it be called hit? Strictly for income tax purpose.
As JTHN fared quite well in India too, the hit status will be accorded to it irrespective of its overseas performance and in the final reckoning may make it superhit taking into account its overall earnings. I would like to know any case offilm doing badly in India but doing extremely well overseas.
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November 20, 2012 at 2:37 AM
you have hit the nail on the head!
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November 20, 2012 at 2:47 AM
Thanks Rooney. As AA was going on and on about overseas, I had to make things clear in my own way.
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November 20, 2012 at 4:58 AM
to be frank with u sanjana (and more frank to AA)
– he has a unique voice
– but i cant read his comments, he types from IPAD, and my eyes are not habituated to read poorly structured and with worst space utilisation (its not his fault but his ipad’s fault or mobiles fault)
thus, if i want to read them, i need better concentration and more time.
– lastly, i dont understand his spoofs about characters of SS, being some heroine in some film, etc, its funny for some, but after a while, they put me off reading them.
– but he’s happy go lucky chap… and i like it how he keeps follwing and commenting even while on the move..
– but thus i cant even debate with him, as to debate would mean to read his comments and as explained above, requires time to read and understand.
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November 20, 2012 at 5:04 AM
also have to say as i forgot, he has good humour sometimes…
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November 20, 2012 at 1:14 PM
Thanx Rooney–u have some valid points & u r a gentleman…
Anyhow good u don’t understand my spoofs etc–they are not for u actually –u may get ‘spoilt’
Anyhow Keep up the good work …I can read your comments and they are mostly sensible
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November 20, 2012 at 1:28 PM
always a pleasure… alex adams.. i also dont like this aa95 avatar of urs!! sounds too robotic…
and thanx for kind words, but m not that gentleman kinda person trust me!!
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November 20, 2012 at 1:39 PM
Ha Rooney
Btw my ‘avatars’ are not for your ‘ liking’ anyways –don’t care if they sound ‘robotic’ or ‘cryptic’ 🙂
Believe me–u are a ‘gentleman’ –u seem to be uncomfortable with being one ha
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November 20, 2012 at 3:01 AM
Sanjana: “I would like to know any case offilm doing badly in India but doing extremely well overseas.”
Umrao Jaan — was pretty much a washout in India, but did quite well overseas, especially the U.S. I can’t give you the specific figures now, but I do remember this. Similarly Guzaarish, too, I think did much better overseas than in India (though I am less sure of this). Maybe Kites? But I can’t remember that one very well. There were also a number of medium-budget films before 2010 that did below average business in India, but, because of their average or better than average collections overseas, could become profitable, even if not huge hits.
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November 20, 2012 at 3:30 AM
It is just like satellite rights, music rights etc.Domestic market makes or breaks a star. Opening numbers, crowds and all the visible fireworks.
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November 20, 2012 at 4:34 AM
Sm–must say u are impressive in your new improved version
Good stuff overall
As I said u seem to have come a long way from being a Salman obsessed fangirl to a proper student of cinema
Keep it up and do write more ..
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November 20, 2012 at 4:47 AM
Almost all Salman Khans are SRK fans by default. It is an open secret.
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November 20, 2012 at 4:20 AM
Have already said ad nauseum that a domestic flop can’t be salvage by an overseas hit–if one reads it
Also hav nothing against SOS which seems to be doing well domestic market.
But in the case of jthj & other srk/ yrf releases for eg–te jerseys number are too significant to be not factored in…
As for te comparison with SOS, in terms of overseas there is no comparison–
The difference is too stark
Had hoped Satyam puts those up himself but obviously that amounts to dilute his own points so won’t happen 🙂
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November 20, 2012 at 4:31 AM
If we go to Bollywood Hungama site, daily we can see updated overseas collections. It is 4 to one. For J it is predictable, while for SOS it is ok as it was purely a desi movie. Even in India J is ahead in terms of pure numbers. But the thing is that its run is being checked quite effectively by a film which everyone dismissed as a worthless caper.
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November 20, 2012 at 4:38 AM
Thanx sanjana–can u post those latest overseas numbers here plz
Ps: ‘worthless capers’ have no less chances of doing well -if not more
Salman, Akshay now Ajay have resurrected their careers fon these ‘worthless capers’–so no sane person underestimated their box office pull– atleast I didn’t feel SOS will bomb or something … If u read earlier
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November 20, 2012 at 4:24 AM
To bliss.
My uncle died in an accident. Because of Soniya Gandhi’s politics.
My fritz is not working. Again because Raw and Gandhi family.
First and Second world wars happened because of Gandhi family.
Stampedes in temples are also happening due to them.
History has 2 sides.
It is Nehru’s vision that brought about industialisation and modernity.
Indira Gandhi nationalised banks and thats why our nationalised banks are not sinking like they do in the capitalist countries.
Indira Gandhi helped Bangladesh in its hour of need and India is still helping them by giving shelter to bangladeshis. Pokhran happened in her time.Banglasdeshis to India are like what Mexicans are to USA.
LTTE and Bhindranwale. When you help someone, you dont expect them to turn against you.
JP brought mutiny and one cant keep quiet when democracy is derailed brazenly.
Rajiv Gandhi went one step further and computerised India inspite of left protest about unemployment.
Now every party is opposing FDI. BJP which had no problems with FDI suddenly turned against it because it will fetch votes. BJP never allowed parliament to function properly thus blocking important bills.
Every leader makes errors of judgment if their tenure is long enough.
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November 20, 2012 at 4:37 AM
LOL 🙂
You are same way justifying the Evils afflecting India( courtesy Congress and its leaders) as shiv sainks justifying Bal T.. You are going off tangent 🙂
and from where BJP comes???? They are all same but congress is worse.
I just refuted your logic of simplyfying problems and you are talking of uncle accident and fridge not working …
anyway its no use taking it further as you may say now my net is not working due to …. 🙂
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November 20, 2012 at 4:43 AM
That is why indians gave chance to a non congress party and they just lost the opportunity that they can do better.
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November 20, 2012 at 4:53 AM
Even I dont endorse the evils of congress party. But blaming it for all the evils of a big country with diverse cultures is not justified. For example, states reorganisation. Nehru opposed it but has to given when PS died fasting. States reorganisation is slowly leading to balkanisation of India. If India had one language, one religion as is in USA, it would have been easier to bring in presidential system.
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November 20, 2012 at 5:02 AM
Just for knowledge, India Cant have presidential system as that shall be unconstitutional. As the current system is Basic Structure and that cant be altered or amended.
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November 20, 2012 at 5:07 AM
It is wishful thinking on my part.
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November 20, 2012 at 5:13 AM
Everything is unconsititutional unless its amended in consititution.. India adopted west minister model from British and for presedential form of govt. we have to amend/alter it. Even ventkatcahlliah committe was set up for reasassing the consititution under vajpayee led govt.
In india its not majority but arthmetic and caste combinations that win the elections, so present day govt or any govt is just 30% + vote share is majority govt, which technically it isn’t. we have adopted this system and have to bear with this also.
India right now is dysfunctional Democracy, evolving as time goes by.
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November 20, 2012 at 5:39 AM
Why would you want a presidential system, sanjana?
Trust me, it will become as dysfunctional as the present system, because finally it is the people who make a system work.
When it is given that a party will not support the progressive uplifting measures of another party because then they will be sidelined, they will do everything to sabotage malign, the other.
Be it a president leading the country belonging to a certain political party or a prime minister belonging to a certain political party.
Giving India a Presidential system is like changing Bombay to Mumbai, Kolkutta from Calcutta etc etc
And I must add, the Americanization of India will be complete.
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November 20, 2012 at 1:27 PM
Wow Oldgold — what an impressive n ‘deep’ comment
Don’t think change in the top structure will matter much in India
It will just change who gets the right to indulge in corruption and power games and create mayhem
Btw have never cared for the new names of Calcutta, madras and Bombay
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November 20, 2012 at 4:30 AM
To add–an overseas showing doesn’t change the fact for srk..
This proves what we already know about his declining clout ( though that also doesn’t mean that opportunists have a field day denying or wiping the skate of hi last achievements!)
As for jthj-have seen some who hated such films liking it
For its conventional audiences, it’s numerous flaws and the creditable ‘abstractness’ is proving a big much ESP against the massy ‘po po’ type stuff in SOS
Anyhow back to work … & more sleep deprivation lol
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November 20, 2012 at 8:20 AM
Hope sleep will help you with some new thoughts instead of the same belaboured and pointless arguments that you have been repeating ad nauseum.
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November 20, 2012 at 4:54 AM
Aamir is doing SMJ Season 2, he also has a script for direction and he loves Veer Zaara…
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November 20, 2012 at 8:15 AM
I had predicted on day one that SOS will overtake JTHJ in daily collections.
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November 20, 2012 at 8:54 AM
yes… and while BOI has the same number for both on MOn Taran has SOS slightly ahead..
and though I was never expecting much from SOS I would be very pleased to see it do a 100..
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November 20, 2012 at 8:32 AM
First poster of Nicholas Winding Refn’s new film ‘Only God Forgives’, Ryan Gosling
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November 20, 2012 at 8:37 AM
For those clamoring for overseas numbers suffice to say JTHJ is behind OSO and MNIK
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November 20, 2012 at 8:47 AM
Sab theek thaak hain 🙂
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November 20, 2012 at 9:12 AM
Those who consider Cocktail and JTHJ to be abstract films probably regard eating at the MickeyDees as the epitome of gourmet dining experience!
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November 20, 2012 at 11:17 AM
Don’t worry Rajen, Alex will be around soon to explain how he eats exclusively at Michelin-starred restaurants. 😉 How can you expect a man, who assists auteurs with their work and is constantly surrounded by an entourage of Eastern European models, to eat at a pedestrain fast food outlet? He’s best friends with Heston Blumenthal and Fergus Henderson, and advises them on their menus, didn’t you know? 😛
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November 20, 2012 at 8:41 AM
Thanks for this Bliss. Loved the poster. Refn’s Drive was a modern day classic IMO.
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November 20, 2012 at 10:00 AM
looking forward to this movie, good poster.
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November 20, 2012 at 10:55 AM
I liked the movie Saurabh but I did feel it was a trying a little too-hard to be a neo-TAXI DRIVE. And Carey Mulligan’s dialogue delivery as though she were a coquettish-virgin just put me off.
The best part of the movie was it BGM and OST – Cliff Martinez..Terrific ’80s feel to it..
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November 20, 2012 at 11:03 AM
have to agree with an here. i liked drive but don’t love it like people here and on other forums seem to. as someone who likes gosling a lot, i also think he needs to switch gears a little too, his performances are becoming repetitive. and mulligan was totally miscast here.
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November 20, 2012 at 8:56 AM
taran adarsh @taran_adarsh
Those asking, yes, both #JTHJ and #SOS should cross 100 cr mark in *India*. #JTHJ total till Mon 86.09 cr, #SOS total till Mon 71.53 cr.
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November 20, 2012 at 8:58 AM
taran adarsh @taran_adarsh
#SOTY 4-week total in *India* stands at Rs 70 cr nett. Highest total in the last decade for any film starring newcomers. Fantastic!
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November 20, 2012 at 11:05 AM
Not a single person in Trade/Media is honest enough to say that JTHJ collections on monday are poor. This will just about do 100 cr and the likes of Nahata have already declared it a ‘Sooper Blockuster’. Taran was tweeting before the release that he thinks this will do 200 cr while BOI in the past have used words like ‘crash’ and ‘rejected’ for those films that have put similar numbers on Monday and most of them were smaller films compared to JTHJ .
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November 20, 2012 at 12:55 PM
yes true the tone now is ‘it should do 100 crores’! Meanwhile Nahata responded to someone saying ‘neither film has done 100 crores yet’. You don’t get the same confidence and hype that you normally get from these guys. Even when a film looks likely to tank they go crazy over it in the initial period if the numbers are really big.
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November 20, 2012 at 1:05 PM
also think it very likely now that this film will do worse than RNBDJ. The latter didn’t open huge, just well enough, but it trended rather well. It more or less doubled it’s week 1 number, something that hasn’t happened with too many films at any level over the last half decade or so. It’s safe to say that JTHJ is not going to get to 150-160 crores which is what it would need to do as well as RNBDJ. And on that note the latter had the Ghajini competition a couple of weeks after release as well. It’s true that here there was SOS as well but as I’ve been saying there’s less of an overlap here (multiplexes versus single/double screens) and even conceding the point that ‘damage’ is already written into the numbers from the very beginning. the film doesn’t start losing more after a week! the question really now is whether it can do a Don2 (similar paradigm) and therefore get into the realm of respectability or if it goes the Ra One way and adds so little beyond the first week that it’s more or less a tank.
And by the way this is where the media/trade continue to be soft on SRK. They’ve been rather quiet about this. They know what’s going on. When BOI, Taran et all don’t celebrate the film’s performance at any point you know something’s up.
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November 20, 2012 at 1:03 PM
“Alex will be around soon to explain how he eats exclusively at Michelin-starred restaurants”
Haha Amy — haven’t mentioned that ever
But hold on–Amy–u seem to be getting more n more ‘obsessed’ with me
I hope u don’t see me in your ‘dreams’ as well, Amy
Now THIS is called casting
What an apt anushka casting Amy is proving 🙂
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November 20, 2012 at 2:19 PM
Revised Official ranking of heros (CURRENT)
Think one may /may not have liked JTHJ but there not much to argue about its box office performance till now
Also it has necessitated some official changes
Certain things have become clear now which were suspected, emphasised earlier for an year or so
But here come the final revised ranking ( as of now)
Obviously that’s now I see it now and nobody’s forced to agree !
1) Salman khan
2) Aamir khan
3 ) SRK & Hritik Roshan
Now this slot can be under dispute/discussion.
Am being a bit ‘lenient’ with SRK given his ‘history’s & ‘credential’ though with his upcoming films-his chances of going up are doubtful
The reason for hritik being where he is –is that he does fewer films-doesn’t fire always but when he does–he can out fire all else in the right genre /film !
There are various reasons of taggin them together and above 5,6
Including appeal, ‘coding’ etc
5) Akshay Kumar
Some may want to put his in the slot 3 but I have certain ‘issues, with that ( atleast as of now)
6) Ajay devgun
He deserves this ascent and ‘upgradation’
The fact that after that up gradation, he still finds himself at 5) speaks volumes of his basal level
But overall–well done for reaching this far
7) Ranbir kapoor
Poised to take Aamirs place soon in terms of positioning
8) Saif Ali khan
Hritik & Ranbir
Together with hritik, ranbir seems poised to ‘take over’ after the khans!
Though to give credit to the khans, this ‘taking over’ doesn’t seem to be happening as soon as the would expect
The rest are bits n bobs –maybe missing someone–if so that’s probably deliberate ….
CUMULATIVE charts –lead actor (1990 onwards till date)
The ‘1990 onwards’ isn’t hypothetical but to delineate a segment of the post. Bachchan era –given the sheer dominance of bachchan at his peak–it’s important not to tag this together
1) SRK
2) Aamir khan
The ‘gap’ between 1) & 2) is lesser now than it used to be earlier but not zero (yet!)
3) Salman khan
The gap between 1/2 from 3) is not as minimal as it would NOW
though is may diminish in the next couple of years
4) hritik Roshan
5) akshay Kumar
The rest were simply not consistent/significant enough to make this rating in a cumulative sense
In order to count the numbers, one can add the likes of Tushar kapoor, fardeen Kahn also somewhere but that would be an insult in the term ‘cumulative ranking’
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November 20, 2012 at 3:20 PM
Certain disclaimers –To add– the above ranking doesn’t take into account–
The transitional post bachchan phase wherein the likes of anil kapoor flourished and the likes of sunny, dutt strutted their ‘bravado’–since their box office didn’t seem to be ‘consolidated’ in any one sense apparently looking at it retrospectively except maybe anil kapoors for a phase
Also to add–
No position is permanent
All eyes now on ‘talaash’– aamir can work up/down though this one film may not change either his current or cumulative positioning given the ‘biggies’ he seems to be sitting on
Hopefully Will be watching talaash only for Aamirs performance …
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November 20, 2012 at 7:19 PM
Abhishek Bachchan for you does not seem to be in line even with Tushhar Kapoor and Farting Khan. And you missed the current box-office messiah Messrs. Hashmi & Sleaze…
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November 20, 2012 at 7:38 PM
^Who are these humans– I know not…don’t have any grey cells2 spare for them
Anyhow -unrelated -ignored this earlier
-when euro club bangers meets a certain emotional funk-call this an endorphin mix–nothing out of the blue-though realise that sia is a better vocalist than gave her credit 4-
Enjoy folks-also some Iceland visuals
A shot in the dark
A past, lost in space
Where do I start
The past and the chase
You hunted me down
Like a wolf, a predator
I feel like deer in your lights
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November 21, 2012 at 3:20 AM
Liked sia fullers vocals
Another sia-David guetta chart buster-not bad for the drive –nice 4 the highway now lol
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November 20, 2012 at 10:08 PM
Seems Ajmal Kasab was hanged today. Can anybody confirm this news?
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November 20, 2012 at 10:17 PM
Yes, Maharashtra home minister R R Patil confirmed the news that Kasab was hanged today at 7:30 AM IST…
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November 20, 2012 at 10:18 PM
Ajmal Kasab hanged at Yerwada Jail in Pune
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ajmal-Kasab-hanged-at-Yerwada-Jail-in-Pune/articleshow/17303820.cms
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November 21, 2012 at 12:21 AM
This is for them who thought Ajay was not the main reason for Bol Bachchan’s success 😉
Son Of Sardaar Delhi/UP v Ajay Devgn Major Grossers
Wednesday 21st November 2012 10.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Son Of Sardaar has grossed 14.60 crore nett in Delhi/UP in eight days while the business in seven days was 13.65 crore nett. Below is a comparison of first week and lifetime business of Son of Sardaar and other Ajay Devgn major grossers in Delhi/UP.
First Week
Son Of Sardaar – 13.65 crore
Bol Bachchan – 12.50 crore
Singham – 8.30 crore
Golmaal 3 – 10.20 crore
Lifetime
Son Of Sardaar – N/A
Bol Bachchan – 20.30 crore
Singham – 15.00 crore
Golmaal 3 – 18.50 crore
Son Of Sardaar should emerge Ajay Devgn’s highest grossing film in Delhi/UP despite a weak release in Delhi/UP.
http://boxofficeindia.com/boxnewsdetail.php?page=shownews&articleid=5127&nCat=
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November 21, 2012 at 7:32 AM
still sore about BB or is the added soreness of JTHJ part of he problem?!
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November 21, 2012 at 12:30 AM
the one where M takes all bond girls to school:
the reason i liked casino royale so much is probably because i am not the typical bond fan and casino royale wasn’t the typical bond movie. so it was a match made in heaven. many bond enthusiasts were disappointed with the 2006 reboot because this was a different animal, breaking away from the old-school franchise in a number of ways. quantum of solace tried to take it from there while bringing back more traditional bond elements. but the script was such a hodge-podge, it failed miserably. and then there was a lot of uncertainty around the franchise due to mgm’s financial woes, leaving fans wondering whether this was the end of the road for 007. but fortunately it wasn’t. because skyfall is definitely a return to fantastic form. this one successfully manages to combine those elements that casino royale hinted at, into an energetic fun ride. it pulls you by the collar, demanding your attention from the opening action sequence which then lyrically blends into the gorgeous opening credits (and boy, are the credits gorgeous! i am tempted to go back just to watch that part again). sam mendes brings on the classic bond, gives it a strong emotional core but manages to keep the film light on its feet without weighing it down with too much self-importance, something that the batman franchise has been guilty of. the struggle to keep the nostalgia and the tradition alive while moving forward is also reflected in the story itself. the film spends most of its time basically questioning its own half-a-century long viability, pondering the very need for old-fashioned espionage and the very existence of 007. both m and bond are accused of being out of date, old-fashioned and just plain old – clinging to things that have lost their meaning or place. from the running joke about m’s cheesy paperweight to bond preferring an old-fashioned razor to q calling 007 a mere trigger-puller to m having to defend herself and her entire mission as a bigger necessity in a world with faceless enemies, to the final sequences in an old mansion that looks like the perfect set-piece for bbc’s latest adaptation of wuthering heights (revealing the reason for the film title in one of those subtle shots that the film abounds in); where the action shifts into a home-alone type sequence, only with explosives, with bond delivering the final lethal blow to the villain in the most old-fashioned way imaginable – this movie is in a way trying to find the very bearings of bond. this misty-eyed nostalgia is laced with visual and emotional resonance in the way of bond’s old aston martin and a delightful surprise in the form of albert finney as bond’s trusty old gamekeeper.
so it’s a miracle that despite all this navel-gazing, the film also manages very well to be a high-octane entertainer that a bond film is supposed to be, and does it better than any recent bond film. a car chase, a train-top fight, a tragic shooting, a tumble over a cliff and a disappearance/possible death all happen even before the opening credits have rolled. there are many well-done action sequences and a lot of hand-to-hand combat (which is always good), the most stunning of which happens in a shanghai skyscraper excellently choreographed in a single-shot.
this rebooted franchise is also blessed with fantastic actors. ralph fiennes makes his first appearance in his franchise setup role. the girls here are not prominent figures but even with just a handful of scenes, they are given enough flesh-and-blood for them to be people and not just red-shirts. but bond doesn’t really waste too much time womanizing anyway, he has more important things to do. in any case, the real bond-girl here is m. and the film spends a lot of time exploring the mother-son dynamic that m and bond share. craig and dench rise to the occasion and their time together on screen is well-spent. it also takes us into bond’s past, quiet literally towards the end, by the way of his mansion and his childhood hiding place; easily establishing some back-story without dwelling on it too much. it’s all done very smoothly as when at one point, m coldly tells bond that orphans make the best recruits, a throwback to vesper telling bond practically the same thing in casino royale. and then there is javier bardem. his is probably the most difficult job. since he only exists within the universe of this movie, we don’t know him too well. but his story mirrors m & bond’s mommy-son story, gone horribly wrong in this case. bardem, whose previous roles are like textbooks in subtle understated acting, does a 180 and magnificently cranks it up to the max (in a good way), delivering a showy but very effective performance. bond is right that he likes to make an entrance. right from the very first scene, where he makes with the effeminate gestures, almost propositions bond with a neck-rub and a thigh-touch and plays a sadistic game involving his girlfriend, bardem owns every scene he is in.
the film is technically pitch-perfect too. from the background score to the cinematography, everything comes together wonderfully. it could have used some tighter editing, chopping off some 15-20 minutes.
personally, casino royale will remain a favorite of mine and i’ll place it a notch above this one just as a film. but as a bond film, skyfall is the best in recent memory.
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November 21, 2012 at 12:33 AM
satyam, i realized this seems too long and is posted weirdly, i didn’t know where to put it. feel free to delete.
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November 21, 2012 at 1:18 AM
Thanks for this excellent review Antya, with this one and ur equally good piece on Argo u seem to be on a roll (as I have said before I would love to read a ‘formal piece’ from u on any of these films not that these short notes are any less enjoyable…it’s just that ur pieces deserve a separate thread IMO). I have already seen this film twice in the theatre and might just watch it one more time. Absolutely loved it. On Bardem did not like him so much, i found the Casino royale guy better than him.
If you are fan of hand-to-hand combat (this incidentally is my fav genre) check out this Indonesian film which released this year – “Raid : Redemption”. It’s a landmark as far as depicting melees are concerned
And yes the film is stunningly shot just like Mendes’ Road To Perdition which too had a very moving Bg score by Thomas Newman.
Having said that (and I am yet to see Master and Argo) my fav Hwood film of this year remains The Grey followed closely by Looper, The Amazing Spiderman, Avengers and Skyfall
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November 21, 2012 at 2:56 AM
“the one where M takes all bond girls to school”
The apt title should be
“the one where anya takes SS girls to school”
Another ace review and like your first one, deserving a separate thread
Also good to see u making full use of the Monday /Tuesday bargain deals (?) u mentioned–but whatever the excuse–gr8 to see u ‘correcting’ your work life balance as suggested by me recently ha (thays called being credit hungry lol)
After the average reviews from many here like amy, wasn’t going to check this one but now may indeed
Bardem certainly is the best spanish & one of the best in euroPe currently
May warm up to Craig more here -the psychodynamics with M sounds interesting
Ps: it’s good that Some folks can quickly go n watch a movie as it should be!
It’s the accompanying trivia and shenanigans (in/after) a movie experience that makes one wary of the entire time spent in these exercises atleast for me nowadays
By not giving these reviews their due and even acknwledfing them, Satyam confirms my initial hypothesis of being SOTYs rishi kapoor to me-anyhow I’m also fond of Satyam (but not in the same way lol)
Only those blessed to have seen that auteuristic psychological treatise soty will know what that means 🙂
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November 21, 2012 at 3:07 AM
My slight ‘concern’ with skyfall and in general ‘bond reboot’ is -1
Why the need to do away with the ‘womanising’
Is bond becoming ‘impotent’ ?
Your description of the shanghai skyscraper scene makes me wanna see this straightaway
“. feel free to delete.”–is the perfect signing off in Anyas brilliant pieces
By that criteria, folks like me should be completely deleted from blogosphere haha
To add–Satyam-hope u don’t mind me (divulging) your soty connection to me
Anyhow Satyam –u are a star and u ‘understand and ‘bear’ me”e better than any ‘wife’ I may ever have lol–Thanx Satyam
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November 21, 2012 at 4:08 AM
Yash Chopra’s swansong Jab Tak Hai Jaan will go down in Bollywood history as only the second time SRK gets to kiss his heroine after Maya Memsaab, which was released almost two decades ago. The star, who has come whisper close since, but never quite gone the whole hog with his heroines, gets smooched by Katrina Kaif. And nary a spark flies. It’s abrupt, hurried and awkward. More a lip-brush than a liplock. That, incidentally, is just one of the many problems with this “epic” love story.
SRK, who has consistently been supported by a rather fine give ’n take routine with his heroines, whether it is Madhuri, Juhi, Kajol, Rani, Kareena, or even Anushka, has no communication with the cold, bland, expressionless wonder that is Katrina. Nothing moves on her face. All she offers in the name of acting are moist eyes, fluttering eyelashes and plumped lips.
Although frenzied to begin with, it’s the other woman, Anushka, who sounds more convincing when she tells SRK that she has fallen “totally, madly, deeply” in love with him. In between lies the biggest problem of all: a love story that is set in the 2000s but is way too old-fashioned for comfort and just riddled with absurd twists brought on by ridiculous compulsions and sacrifices of its central characters. With a little help from God and retrograde amnesia. Unfulfilled love, a la Love In The Time Of Cholera, is all well and good, but the reasons for separation are more laughable than heart-rending. It’s needlessly stretched with a few bright moments but is largely inert.
SRK looks good with the stubble, particularly against the backdrop of the rugged Ladakh landscape and he can still say “pyaar ho gaya hai, uska kya karoon” like no one else, but that easy charm of yore is getting more and more rehearsed. Full of references to many of Yash Chopra’s own films—be it Dil To Paagal Hai or Veer Zaara, JTHJ struggles hard to find its own
two feet to stand on.
http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?282981
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November 21, 2012 at 4:22 AM
Uncle utkal –nice to see u back
While I do agree with some points about katrina–I feel even YOU haven’t read it totally correctly & entirely
The ‘appeal’ of katrina here is different from anushka and rightly so…
Besides the obvious perks of getting katrina to give u a (facial) shave–
The ‘cold bland’ bit has its own merits sometimes though I do get your eagerness to get a ‘hyper/hot’ deal bordering on nymphomaniac behaviour or even the ‘innocent coquettishness’ mastered by ex-yrf heroines like sridevi..
I don’t mean ‘hard to get’ by that ‘coldness’ but a certain ‘detachment’ and ‘other worldliness’
As for the ‘lip brush’, utkal uncle, I think u are expecting ‘deep throat’ stuff here 🙂
For obvious reasons, that can’t be ‘accommodated’ with prudish/ family audiences
Anyhow –a ‘lipbrush’ can have its own charm (as evidenced during the spoofs–I’m told by the heroines & the director)
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November 21, 2012 at 4:32 AM
Btw utkal uncle : don’t let this deter u– plz comment more -I ‘learn’ from u & love your posts
“it’s the other woman, Anushka, who sounds more convincing when she tells SRK that she has fallen “totally, madly, deeply” in love with him. ” yeah yeah have to agree with that lol
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November 21, 2012 at 4:50 AM
Katrina to lose the most from the fiasco called Jab Tak Hai Jaan
Of course a bad film affects all those concerned with the film. So everyone from Aditya to Shahrukh to Anoushka and Rahman will lose some sheen after the film settles down without impressing anyone and cheesing off so many more. The person who stands to lose most from the fiasco of JTHJ is Katrina, because it is her performance that has drawn the most flak.
Before this film, she was gaining some respect and acceptance as someone who was at last learning her acting chops. Films like Mere Brother Ki Dulhan, Rajneeti and Zindagi Na MIlegi Dobara were proof that she could pull off character driven roles and make female lead oriented films work. This one has revealed her to be what she was always thought off as – eye candy and a exciting dancer. What this will ensure is that she wont get too many plum roles.
The actress to gain the most out of the scenario is Deepika…not in small measure due to her performance in Cocktail – a film which has benefited all – Saif, Imtiaz, Diana, Pritam , and of course Deepika, because her performance was the highlight and surprised everyone with its quantum jump in quality.
She now has Kochadiyan with Rajni / Ravikumar, Chennai Express with Shahrukh/ Rohit Shetty, Race 2 with Saif / Abbas-Mustan, Yeh Jawani Hai Deewani with Ranbir / Ayan Mukherjee and Ram Leela with Ranveer / Sanjay Bhansali. DShe has it pretty much covered in terms of genres, co-stars and directors.
As I have mentioned bad film does not translate into bad box office right awy but affects the subsequent films of all involved. And it si the same with good films.
Mard may have done well in box office, but the audience dissatisfaction gets reflected after a time delay in subsequent films like Ganga Jamuna Saraswati and Jaadugar. On the other hand a god film like Jab We Met may not boast of great box office figures , but it leads to the good response ofa Kainay a Golmal Returns or a Love Aaj Kal. Just like a Rockstar may not show up very well in box office terms but it primes the audience to come in drives for Barfi.
No body said cause and effect was simple. And least so in the slippery slopes of box office.
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November 21, 2012 at 5:12 AM
Utkal uncle–I agree that deepika has gained a lot from cocktale, as she rightly deserves
Also one sees a certain ‘aura’ in her now (though I maybe wrong and the future films will confirm)
As for katrina–what is she to lose anyhow ( that she had)?
The ‘role’ in JTHJ required her to behave in a certain ‘detached’ way that yrf thought goes with THEIR idea of an alluring lead–though Kat isn’t a madhuri or sridevi (!) to add to that.
WIth ETT behind her and dhoom 2 ahead of her box office wise–where’s the big worry
She is not here for some decades (like the male stars) to be affected beyond a point
Also how much longer is her tenure in Bollywood as the número Uno anyhow–that’s a sad reality of actresses there–look @ rani and aiyyah where she apparently did v well ( as per amy) but what happened?
Katrina also has Hritiks next ( cruise Diaz remake) and that is the sort of projects she will/should be doing.
So all this is immaterial–katrina wasn’t in that fray anyways
With dhoom3– katrina will be getting her third 100 crores grosser in a row and maybe much more..& that’s what her purview/scope is– simple..
Were u or some others seriously thinking katrina would be doing a vidya balanesque makeover soon –really?
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November 21, 2012 at 5:33 AM
SRK: the end of an era !
the word ‘fiasco’ for JTHJ is an overstatement in a world where yuvraaj, veer, TMK, joker, tezz exist in the middle of ‘good spells’
Though it is a relative underperformer surely
Don’t think it will be katrina who will get affected most and shouldn’t
And anushka should infact gain given her spirited performance
Ad dont think either of them should be to blame for the boxi flick underperformance of JTHJ
Yashraj anyhow are on a roll with ETT, dhoom3 as well!
The ONLY one who would lose from this and should lose from this–inspite of an ace performance in the second half where he saved the film to respectability atleast is SRK
With JTHJ, as I had predicted the Rahul/raj persona has formally and officially died towards the end of the first half
What started with ra1 is now complete
There have been murmurs reaching a crescendo lately but I have never bought to them till now
Inspite of predmininanyl being an srk hater though out his career and recently his detractor esp till mnik, I have NEVER thought srk being below aamir forgt Salman
But with JTHJ –for the FIRST time–SRK Loses the top slot –OFFICIALLY and perhaps FOREVER !
Good bye SRK –things will never be the same for u again
But u were great while u lasted (close to two decades) and the biggest star India has ever seen after bachchan (as per now)
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November 21, 2012 at 6:12 AM
end of an era for srk,
do not say this as srk fans will come like ton of bricks.
every star come to boom & bust,what goes must come down as public gravity pulls down .People who go to see films and decides the faith of that film,early in 70s & 80s most films had same thing,got to have very good story line which includes Amitabh films but exception with Amitabh films that weak story line but powerfull performance from him used to carry the film to safety ,i.e, cover the losses.srk is going the same phase of initials coming good but film crases ,srk films are just initials and that will come to an end if his decline continues.everything comes to end at some point.
SOS and jthj are running neck to neck,sos is an under dog but having said that still srk films should be doing 200cr+ to stay in touch with salman as he is running away ,Talaash is releasing soon and that will put more damper on sharukhs film.
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November 21, 2012 at 6:14 AM
You have analysed quite well about Katrina. She will not fade away so easily and she will always be above Deepika who is a plain jane.
SRK should now reinvent himself and invest in better scripts. YRF’s type of love stories have lost their lustre over the years.
My prediction that YRF and ARR cant go together has been proved. Music also let down the film. YRF type of love stories need a Jatin Lalit.
SRK still may surprise all the naysayers if Chennai Express works very well.
I agree with Utkal when he says certain movie choices indicate how certain stars may fare.
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November 21, 2012 at 6:27 AM
SOS surely is the surprise package here. Never expected it to tag along so close to JTHJ. SOS had the disadvantage of screens as well as poor critic reviews despite this it remains on strong footing and moves from strength to strength. Ajay’s gamble paid off well. This genre of Masala is surely the flavour of the season and here to stay for long.
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November 21, 2012 at 7:05 AM
This is a must read. The only no nonsense article on Thackeray http://kafila.org/2012/11/20/ek-tha-tiger-death-and-bal-k-thackeray/&sa=U&ei=dcGsUK67Is7orQfjrID4CA&ved=0CBUQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGJyVi4cflEaRqlgLnOjtWcUgZ7Rw
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November 21, 2012 at 7:16 AM
the page is not found.
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