Public fury over New Delhi gang rape sparks protest across India

On Sanjana’s request…

Public fury over New Delhi gang rape sparks protest across India


NEW DELHI (Reuters) – The gang-rape of a young woman in New Delhi has sparked public outrage across India, bringing thousands of people onto city streets in protest against authorities’ failure to ensure women’s safety.

Sexual violence against women often goes unremarked and unreported in India, but on Friday hundreds of students and activists blockaded roads in New Delhi and marched to the president’s palace, breaking through police barricades despite water-canon fire to demand the culprits’ execution.

The 23-year-old woman is battling for her life in hospital after she was beaten, gang-raped for almost an hour and thrown out of a moving bus on a busy street of the capital last Sunday.

Five people accused of the attack have been arrested.

“No amount of pepper spray, tazers or ‘decent dressing’ will protect women. I can’t let my little girl grow up in a society where men pounce on and rape women,” said Bharat Kapur, whose 5-year-old daughter clung to his leg as hundreds shouted with clenched fists at a protest in New Delhi.

The public verbal and physical sexual harassment of women, known as “eve-teasing”, is routine in New Delhi, which has come to be known as India’s “rape capital”.

Last week’s case – covered intensively by TV news networks – provoked uproar in both houses of parliament earlier this week, prompting the authorities to announce measures to make the capital safer for women. These include increased policing and fast-tracking court hearings for rape.

New Delhi, home to about 16 million people, has the highest number of sex crimes among India’s mega cities. Police figures show rape is reported on average every 18 hours and some other form of sexual attack every 14 hours in the capital.

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617 Responses to “Public fury over New Delhi gang rape sparks protest across India”

  1. Comments from Dabangg2 Box office threads..Sorry they don’t look aligned.

    SM – December 25, 2012 at 2:23 AM e
    OT, but since there has been some discussion of the Delhi rape incident here, I thought this would be appropriate. Here’s a message posted on FB by one of my relatives in India. I’m posting it here because I think the information is important, and I hope members here will pass it on to their contacts in India:

    “An Important Message to All Girls

    If you get stuck anywhere in India, don’t rely on auto/bus/taxi,

    Instead dial 44222222 or 44333222

    which is the number of cabs with female drivers

    that have been started for the safety of women”

    munna Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 2:30 AM e

    That is a better idea. Instead of baording a vehicle with unknown, it is always better with females. It is not a full proof security but probablity of something reduces significantly.At same time, I am also worried about safety of female drivers.

    munna Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 2:32 AM e
    Once I took a cab from Nizamudin to Gurgoan at night. The driver started behaving erratically. Someone overtook him, instead of taking me to destination he started chasing the other vehicle. I was urging the guy to take me to my destination but he was not listening to me. Felt scared.

    Naveed Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 2:48 AM e
    Interesting piece of information sm

    Now I’ve read many comments and heard many people talk about this Delhi rape incident amongst several other rape cases.

    Now what gets me no what pisses me off is WTF are other people doing when such crimes happen. I swear to god girls I know can dress how they want and very few men will have the balls (pun unintended) to grope or touch her in a sleazy way. Heck if you try chatting up a girl and she finds you sleazy she’ll tell you in no uncertain terms to jog on. I just don’t understand or is it just me but if someone especially a girl is being harassed by a man then it’s natural to defend her. That’s not to get in her good books or be her hero, hell no. We all have sisters and mothers.

    Maybe it’s the culture I don’t know. I still can’t forget when I was in Pakistan how the ladies ate only after the men. The men wouldn’t even bother taking their dishes to the sink forget washing them. LOL my mum would kick my ass if I behaved in such a way.

    Education, education, education

    sm Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 3:15 AM e
    Two points, Naveed.

    1. In the case of the gang rape, the only other people on the bus were the rapists themselves, and the girl’s friend, who did try to defend her, and also got beat senseless.

    2. The consequences of coming to someone’s aid in India are very heavy and very negative. In the best case scenario, where the good Samaritan actually manages to help stop the trouble, if they then want to register the case with the police, s/he will be involved in a criminal case and be harassed by the police/courts for the next several years until the case ends. If they don’t file a police case, the culprits, though temporarily defeated, can (and usually do) nurse a grudge, and attack the defender at another time and place where no one will be around to help.

    I’ll give two examples of what I mean. There was an incident several years ago, when Atal Bihari Vajpayee was the Prime Minister of India. His grandnephew was on a train along with some other passengers of both sexes, when some men started to harass a girl in the compartment. He intervened and stopped them. They got off the train, and the girl also got off the train in subsequent stations. Most of the other passengers also got off. The original harassers then reboarded the train, attacked Vajpayee’s grandnephew, and eventually threw him off the train. I don’t think he was dead at that point, but he was unconscious. His body was found by the tracks two or three days later, after his family filed a missing person complaint. I’m mentioning the connection to Vajpayee because I think that’s the only reason why this story even made the news.

    In the second example, again on a train (what is it with this kind of grotesque “moving violations”?), a young girl was stripped naked by some hooligans who were planning to rape her. All this happened in front of her parents as well as other passengers. The parents were begging the bad guys not to hurt their daughter, but no one actively intervened. Then an off duty or out of service army guy saw what was going on and attacked the hooligans armed only with his army knife. He managed to injure/subdue them sufficiently so that the rest of them ran away. He was also hurt in the fight. When the train stopped at a station and the police came on, the soldier was arrested as the criminal causing the trouble. He was actually jailed until the girl came and told the police that he was the rescuer, not the criminal.

    As for the general behavior of men harassing/groping women, I have to conclude it’s cultural. I’ve traveled to a number of different countries, and pretty widely in North America, but the only two times I’ve ever encountered any trouble was in India, where I was groped twice — once on a train, and once on a plane (on an international flight out of India), and both times when everyone was sleeping.

    Saurabh Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 3:28 AM e
    Those are all fine point points SM but just because a man ‘might’ get into trouble for attempting to a protect a women, it does not mean that he should not. Life is not only about ‘avoiding controversies’.

    Having said this I too agree that we live in such times where I too may think twice before trying to come to a girl’s aid unless I know her personally

    sm Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 3:35 AM e
    I think when people are literally taking their lives in their hand for coming to the aid of someone, they can’t be blamed for looking after themselves first, or for running away from the scene. The ground realities are so different in India than they are in North America (where I live) that I don’t think the same measuring sticks can be used for judging people’s behavior, or having expectations. Given all that, I think it is remarkable how many people do come to help others, even knowing the risks.

    On the topic of specifically coming to help girls/women being harassed, though, I think it varies greatly from one place to another in India, and also in time. I definitely feel that this kind of social responsibility has deteriorated in the past several decades.

    Ami Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 4:15 AM e
    But the danger to those who intervene in defence of the victim itself comes from a larger social apathy. In most other countries, a woman being publically assaulted would invite the ire of the entire bus/ train. It’s only when the majority stand by and watch silently, that the lone man or woman coming to the aid of the victim is endangered.

    Next Subthread Thread

    munna Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 3:42 AM e

    SM – Have you seen Bigg Boss 6 friday and Saturday episodes? Salman is affable and asks pointed questions ; but some of his questions or comments I think, many women would find offensive. Like in last weekend episode he asked why Bipasa didn’t do the exercise in Bigg Boss house. She was wearing short skirt. Of course everyone laughed and she was embarrassed. There was another comment regarding her upper bodycontrolling lower body @2.55).

    sm Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 3:55 AM e
    I don’t watch BB, Munna. I don’t care for the show.

    Ami Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 3:59 AM e
    Personally, I don’t undrstand why these Bollywood actresses laugh and put up with such comments. They should stop being so slavishly sycophantic and speak up for themselves!

    AA Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 8:15 AM e
    Agree munna
    Salmans comment about bipasha was inappropriate and deliberately aimed to make her uncomfortable
    Sanju– at your recommendation saw bits of big bro
    Karishma, Sanaa still in!! Ha
    Who do u think will win –any bets…

    Ami Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 2:05 AM e
    Kalki Koechlin’s note on the Delhi rape incident: http://www.facebook.com/notes/kalki-koechlin/i-cant-get-her-out-of-my-head/10151291595028366

    Saurabh Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 2:23 AM e
    Have you read any of the comments on Kalki’s twitter account regarding rape. They are absolutely sick

    Next thread

    Ami Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 4:11 AM e

    So, there pictures of male police officers attacking female protestors in Delhi with lathis (and this, at a protest against the violence that women face!). Apparently the police force used tear gas against several non-violent protestors, despite this being a banned subtance by many international treaties.

    Surprisingly, Sirish Kunder had a number of witty tweets on how horrendously the government has handled this situation:

    “The PM will make a statement as soon as the Ventriloquist arrives. #DelhiGangRape”

    “Rahul Gandhi asks for India Gate to be shut, only to be informed that there is no actual gate there.”

    “The rapist got angry because the girl protested. The police got angry because the people protested. So where really is the difference?”

    “Given a choice between containing Crime and Protest, they chose to contain Protest. #DelhiGangRape”

    munna Says:
    December 25, 2012 at 4:19 AM e
    I think the protest is against apathy and misgovernance. It is not easy to get things done in India. There was so much hullabaloo when Anna did his protest first time. What has happened? People have forgotten and still no law.

    Like

    • Thanks a lot. I will post my comment once again from the other thread.

      Can we request Satyam to open A topic Delhi Rape Incident so that everyone can post related comments there instead of clogging Dabangg 2? This incident is not only chilling but making the very existence of women dangerous. They cannot step out, they cannot wear what they want, they cannot have boyfriends, they cannot write their feelings on FB, they cannot celebrate valentine’s day, they cannot marry outside their community, they cannot refuse advances, they have to face acid attacks and other ignominies if they do so. If they marry they have to give huge dowries, If they conceive they have to give birth to boys only, if they are widowed they will be branded witches and burnt alive for property. Or sent to Vrindavan to beg.Recently when a woman complained that her dupatta was taken of by male goons, the police laughed and said that poora dress to nahi nikaalana!

      This is not a tirade against men but against the system that has evolved in the country.

      Like

  2. MUMBAI: A 19-year-old girl, who was critical after being repeatedly stabbed by her spurned lover at a college in suburban Bandra three days ago, succumbed to her injuries at a hospital here today, police said.

    The victim died early this morning, Namdev Chavan Zonal Deputy Commissioner of police said.

    The girl, who was admitted in a critical condition to the Gurunanak hospital in Bandra, was on ventilator since December 22 after she was attacked by her college mate Nikhil Bankar several times with a knife, injuring her seriously in different parts of the body.

    The 22-year-old boy also committed suicide after the incident that day.

    Nikhil and the victim were studying management at the college and recently had a break-up.

    According to police, Nikhil had accosted the girl and three of her friends while they were on their way to the classroom in the morning, and during a heated argument between the two, Nikhil whipped out a knife from his bag and slashed her several times.

    Later, Nikhil stabbed himself around 4-5 times and also slashed his neck. He had died during admission to the hospital that day itself, police added.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Mumbai-girl-stabbed-by-college-mate-dies/articleshow/17754744.cms

    Like

  3. There is some debate going on explicit scenes of violence and sex both in movies as well as television. Every second movie has a titillating item number and the item dancers are going overboard just to show how well they can be sensual or sexy.

    And on television we have gory details of crimes depicted rather graphically in the name of showing true crime incidents. The latest addition is Shaitan on Colors.

    While the show business people say they are simply depicting real life, others say real life people are getting influenced by the crime content. especially impressionable teens and adolescents.

    Like

  4. Well done sanjana
    And munna for recognising the seriousness of this topic
    And creating a separate thread
    “This incident is not only chilling but making the very existence of women dangerous. They cannot step out, they cannot wear what they want, they cannot have boyfriends, they cannot write their feelings on FB, they cannot celebrate valentine’s day, they cannot marry outside their community, they cannot refuse advances, they have to face acid attacks and other ignominies if they do so. If they marry they have to give huge dowries, If they conceive they have to give birth to boys only, if they are widowed they will be branded witches and burnt alive for property. Or sent to Vrindavan to beg.Recently when a woman complained that her dupatta was taken of by male goons, the police laughed and said that poora dress to nahi nikaalana!”
    Wow– what a moving heartfelt comment — should go into the top content of this thread
    I think the situation at ground level in India is much worse than we can envisage
    What concerns me more is—
    WHAT is being done on this
    Is it ok to just ‘protest’ and cause rampage in the capital
    Came to know another disturbing trend in these ‘protests’ from fb, other forums & also some anecdotal reports from common mates.
    Sme guys boasted that they are participating in the Delhi protests
    Some used it as an opportunity to ‘befriend’ a few ‘hot gals’ during these ‘protests’
    And actually went on dates afterwards !!
    I mean–nothing wrong with this bit to actually use such an occasion to ‘network’ and then boast about it –even some gals are claiming they met some hunks in these ‘protests’ …

    Which brings me to the ACTUAL steps–suggestions–
    A)martial arts like taekwondo , judo, karate training to gals
    Will also aid in fitness,weight loss
    B) rape-x (vaginal teeth)–have posted a link earlier –it’s not a joke folks–needs to be tried out
    C) some sort of ‘rape alarms’ that can be activated once someone’s in danger–have been used n the states, Europe for adults in vulnerable positions
    D) stricter laws

    Like

    • A) It will take most girls many years of martial arts training before they are adept enough to fight off an able-bodied man. And given the trend towards gang-rape/ mass assault, there’s little any woman or girl is going to be able to do to physically fend off a group of male assailants.

      B) The police force in India consider women who stay out late and don’t wear saris to be inviting rape; if a woman were to use a device like rapex they would most probably book her for assault.

      C) But who will answer these alarms?

      D) When the law enforcing mechanism is so bankrupt that a female president grants her official pardon to several men who have raped and killed little girls, and the police are unwilling to arrest rapists but willing to tear gas and lathi charge non-violent protestors, what effect will any legal reforms have?

      Sadly, I don’t think that there are any quick fix solutions here, especially given the appalling level of corruption and apathy in our government and police force. Short of a revloution, I really don’t see how India is going to become a safer place for women. I fear that what is going to happen is the opposite: i.e. even greater restrictions will be imposed upon women than ever before, and the rising crime rate will just see us regressing even further as a society in our treatment of women. Already, I can see this happening: for instance, a female student was gang-raped at the National Law School in Banglore (the most prestigious in the country), and as a result the chancellor has been criticized for giving the female students ‘too much freedom’ and is being pressurized to impose stricter curfews and other such rules.

      Like

  5. Hmm good points there and agree partly but it’s all about making SOME difference, and it all adds up
    A) martial arts will atleast help in NON gang-rape situation
    Also there’s no harm in being ‘fit’
    B)the fact that rapeX was needed or ‘worked’ proves the ‘assault’
    C)the alarms will atleast alert those around or give a chance to those willing to help
    D)there’s actually no harm in being careful in not roaming around in some ‘rough’ areas at odd hours
    Eg even in parts of New York, even London are not safe for anyone leave alone gals

    Some more controversial measures–
    Legalise strip joints, escort agencies etc
    Think there’s a dearth for legalised ‘adult entertainment’ in India
    Don’t think there are legalised ‘strip joints’ or ‘topless bars’
    Not debating for them but in the west there are those options
    Perhaps they are better than this street mayhem if one compares and becomes realistic
    What do u think folks

    Like

    • The girl who was gang-raped in Banglore was raped ON CAMPUS, in India’s most prestigious law school, not in a ‘rough area of town’. The idea that this sort of thing only happens to women who are roaming around at ‘odd hours’ in ‘rough areas’ of town is completely false. In just the last couple of days, the Times of India has covered a number of rapes and murders of women, ranging from one in a play school, to another in a management college. Telling women to completely avoid life in the public sphere lest they ‘provoke’ an attack is completely unfeasible.

      I don’t see how legalising strip joints and escort agencies will help prevent the widespread violence against women; in any case India does have extremely large red light areas in most major cities, none of which seemed to have helped abate this violence. The increase in gang rapes and violent crimes against women is NOT a result of sexual frustration. To equate sex and rape is both ridiculous and extremely harmful to the welfare of women in a society. When a group of men repeatedly rape a woman and assault her with iron rods until her intestines spill out, or when a man rapes a school child, or when a woman is publically assaulted by a crazed mob or has acid thrown in her face, it should be blantantly obvious that the criminals are not doing this to satisfy any sexual urges!

      Like

      • Excellent comment Ami.But i do think sexual frustration is one of the reasons for rape in India. Not saying that this is always the reason but quite often is.

        I can understand the anger pervading in women regarding the incident but I still think castration is too sick a thing to do

        Like

        • I completely disagree that rapes are an act of sexual frustration. They’re simply part of a larger trend of escalating violence against women, and come from a desire of dominance, violation and patriarchal cruelty felt by a growing sick element of society. Rape is a part of this larger problem of rising violence against women, not a unique sexual problem: that rape cases are often accompanied by murder, phsyical assault or some other form of brutlization shows that they’re not just about ‘sex’. The reaction of the rapists in the Delhi gang rape case was very telling: they said that they did it because they ‘wanted to teach the woman a lesson’. Last year, around 225,000 of the 250,000 violent crimes reported in India were against women. Says it all, really.

          And I never said anything about castration- I think that the death sentence is a more effective deterrent. But then again with the current law enforcement scenario in India, we’re never going to see rapists get any sort of severe punishment.

          Like

  6. What a transformation this, from Shining India to Raping India!!!

    Like

    • as i said, all these measures ADD up–they are obviously not for crazy psychos who are spilling intestines out (sick).
      Its better to do SOME measures than just ‘protest’ and use those to get ‘hot dates’ –which is what some (not all) guys there are doing!
      I have been told by a gal that her (girl) friend in delhi told her that she went out on a date with a hunky guy after these ‘protests’
      They are serving as ‘meeting points’ now which is somewhat irritating

      NOT saying that all are indulging in this stuff–the majority are for somethign serious
      just saw some news reports that some ‘hooligan’ elements are hijcking these protests
      some guys boasting and ‘showing off’ to ‘impress’ some gals–all this is ok but not within context
      also amy–its good to find ‘faults’ but there needs to be some actual MEASURES–suggestions will be more helpful
      “What a transformation this, from Shining India to Raping India!!!”–wanted to say–‘great one liner” but given the context will refrain—so as not to trivialise this subject.
      ps ann–didnt see life of pi –but saw hobbitt-see my views in the box offcie thread–HFR may interest u though i feel people are not interested in innocent filmns like hobbitt lol

      Like

  7. tonymontana Says:

    Delhi has been in a state of total chaos in the past two days. due to the protests at India Gate, for some strange reason all metro stations leading to the place were shut down, causing a lot of trouble to daily commuters. Some of the girls who were protesting at India gate had to suffer molestation from the guys already present; there were 35 molestation cases registered that day.

    Like

    • Not only were the protestors molested, they were also tear gassed and beaten with lathis!

      Since you’re living in Delhi right now Tony (and Alex thinks that I am being too cynical): do you really think that this case is going to change anything or that the violence against women will continue unchecked?

      Like

  8. There certainly is no quick-fix. All of this is a product of a highly dysfunctional society with institutionalized corruption deeply ingrained at every level.
    Various unchecked problems of the last 4 decades have combined and culminated in the absolute mess which we find ourselves in. SMJ covered almost all of this. The nation just teeters from one crisis to the next. Everyone is for themselves. IMO, the root cause of all these problems is a toothless tax collection authority. An IRS like strong agency would have severely restricted the amount of black money that citizens could stash away, that fuels further corruption and increases lack of apathy. But attaining that is a pipe dream. Maybe we really should be living under some foreign dictatorship once again. A central authority that instills fear into criminals, or at least enhances accountability. I think China might be a good foreign dictator to choose.

    Like

    • Seriously, I don’t think we deserve sovereignty!

      Like

      • Rajenmaniar Says:

        What ridiculous thoughts!
        A solution worse than problem!

        Like

      • Guys let’s not start losing perspective here. Though i do agree with ur central point- i recently went to Dubai and i was amazed to find that the crime rate there was almost zero simply because of very strict law and order

        Like

        • Exactly. A free democracy with no rules cannot prevent any crime. The rules are only for those who cannot pay to break them. The ones who can pay to break the rules go away scot-free. In the UAE, these 6 would have been lined up in a public intersection, and shot promptly, (Or decapitated).
          I was being overly sarcastic to call from a Chinese dictatorship. But seriously, absent a strong central authority that can instil fear, what really are we going to do? Just hold demonstrations at India Gate on the weekends (and get lathi-charged), just to be back at our desks on Monday? The govt just has to wait for the weekend to get over, and things go back to normal. They have infinite patience and resources to let a group of ragtag professionals vent their frustrations; and go back to being normal. India is a lawless jungle. A jungle society needs some shocks to restore order.

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        • Saurabh- when protestors are tear-gassed and lathi charged, and the metro stations leading upto to the portest site are shut down at enormous inconvenience to the general public, I’m pretty sure that this qualifies as not being allowed to protest! Maybe they weren’t banned outright, but the protestors did have their rights infringed upon enormously.

          And whilst I do not seriously think that India should be ruled by a foreign dictatorship (I thought that it was obvious that my comment was not meant to be taken seriously BTW 😛 ), I also think that our ‘democracy’ is a farce. When the government and police force are supremely apathetic in the face of every single crisis from the frequent terrorist attacks to the enormous corruption scandals to the endemic violence against women, when the police force would rather blame the victims and beat up innocents civilians than arrest rapists, when the courts have several years worth of cases pending and when politicians swindle billions of dollars and grant pardons to child rapists and mass murderers, you have to wonder how much longer citizens are going to peacefully accept being tyrannized by such an immoral, impotent ruling class.

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          • Unfortunately, India is not Egypt. Citizens can peacefully protest when they are off on the weekends. But by Monday they are back to work. There will never be a Tahrir Square in India. As I said above, the govt (be it any party) has enormous patience, and skill to break up any burgeoning revolt. They use the numerous templates left behind by the Brits who were masters at stamping out revolutions (except the one that got away, ie USA).

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          • Yes, exactly. The Indian police force still adheres fastidiously to the colonial model of law enforcement left behind by the British, which was meant as a method for the foreign rulers to terrorize and oppress the natives! It’s ridiculous of the Indian police force to still keep this monstorous culture alive even now that we are supposedly a free country!

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    • Why I blame black money for all of this:
      The elite want the system to protect them from all elements, but do not want to pay anything back in taxes to the system. Those who do pay taxes (mostly private sector employees) are a tiny minority in this vast tax-avoiding country. The black money as a result of this lets people get away with murder. It lets people get away with breaking rules of society. Cops can be bribed, bureaucrats can be bribed. In the absence of any revenue generating capability, Govt social security is negligent. The 6 accused come from the lower-strata of society, where people have no hope, no future planning, no education to attain any path towards upward mobility, no retirement scheme, no nohting. They can only live for the next day. These 6 were not even career charge-sheeters. They were labor class: fruit-seller, bus-driver, gym instructor, etc. Yet they were so confident of breaking the system and getting away, that they just went on about the crime. The guy who did the most brutalisation was a minor (17 yrs old). An adolescent coming from that social strata, can easily be bent into committing a crime. Easy access to alcohol for minors (again due to corrupt a bureaucracy and police which lets these country-liquor joints flourish) can certainly fuel the animal within. No wonder, he also brutalized the max, he was the one who inserted the iron rod into the poor girl. The rest of the adults raped her and had their ‘bhadaas’ released.
      Would any of this have been possible if there was a shred of a system in place? The truth is, there is no system in place. It is just a mirage, which only comes to life on the sight of a wad of black money.

      Like

  9. If there is anyone responsible for the violence against women,it is the police and the buck stops squarely there. All the talk of patriarchal society, gender discrimination, stricter laws, and item numbers in cinema is merely diverting and diluting the central issue of administration of law and order… not only against women, but in general.The same indian who creates a lot of dirt and mess in normal railway stations across the country( and we condone it by saying indians are generally dirty people) starts behaving differently in a metro station or when he is outside india. How does this change happens? This sudden change in the attitude and dirty habits of spitting all over the place bred over centuries?
    It is the fear of the stricter implementation of the law and order mechanism.
    Have a definite protocol in place for investigation of rape cases and follow it,its as simple as that. No need to talk about gender sensitization and changing the mindset of the society towards women,it will happen by the force of the fear of the law not by chanting slogans and blaming patriarchy on tv debates.

    Like

    • Problem here is the police themselves. They are no less than these criminals. Just 4 days back, a gangaraped woman went to the police and in turn the police raped her. Why people fear to go to police to register cases?

      First the police constable should be recruited from well educted who are given special training in human relations and they should be given good salaries to lead a decent life without bribes. Political interference must be checked and citizens committee must monitor the police in their areas for wrong doings.

      There should be sufficient street lighting and drinking must be discouraged. Eve teasing should not be lightly treated as it is the first symptom.

      I dont know about movies but television is a family thing in India and crime serials must be stopped for a while. Many curious and ideas and some watch not to get lessons but to get ideas.

      As Saurabh pointed out education is the key but education has become a pressure cooker of sorts. We must introduce liberal education for the poorer sections (educationally backward and economically backward) where scoring marks is given less priority and making them good citizens is given top priority. We can draw future police force from this pool so that they wont face unemployment and dejected.

      Along with short term plans, we must have long term plans too to make society functional.

      Rabble rousing speeches by politicians, politicians having goondas as party workers cant be overlooked. Why election commission cant derecognise such parties who are becoming stronger by the day using their goondas to suppress opposition? Why national parties take their help to form coalition governments? Why national parties cant help each other by keeping those forces out and joining hands in the larger interests of the country? Is Party above Nation?

      Like

      • Many curious youngsters and many who want to get ideas are the ones who are wrongly motivated by crime stories than getting lessons from them. And these are some of those who watch, not to get lessons but to get ideas.

        Like

  10. Its Might of State that one doesn’t understand and realise. just click the link below and see how State can do anything to quell protests and ask media not to report is live continously…

    Congress is just Disgusting …

    http://bhadas4media.com/print/7452-2012-12-24-12-54-40.html#.UNi3qjSUmg0.facebook

    Like

    • Again, just proves the lack of any actual democracy in our country! And a journalist was shot dead by the police force after they opened fire against protestors in the North East. Absolutely shameful!

      http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/12/2012122472028593617.html

      Like

    • You are right. I want BJP back in power.

      Like

      • And you think that the BJP would be any different? You will just replace one set of goons with another.

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        • I hope you have read and seen Mr shinde’s i/v with rajdeep and burkha dutt …

          It will make you sure that you will support anyone but congress, where HM of country equates students protest with moaist and says soniaji met with protesters( which was another cat out of bag as those were members of NSUI( congress students union) and that should be enough. When rebutted that India is democracy not monarchy he says sonia is head of govt and end all and be all.

          I don’t say BJP is better than congress but Congress is worse evil. We need overhaul of system and decisive Leader not meek leader like Maunmohan singh and another one as SG withut any accountablility and responsibily and anothe one in form of rahul whose only accomplishment is that he is ” Lucky sperm”

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          • This crime was not of the Congress’ doing. It is a result of 6 decades of unqeual socio-economic factors fueled by corruption. We can blame Cong for sustaining corruption. But the BJP has not exactly been a knight in shining armor in any of the states that they ruled (except perhaps Gujarat). They were in power for 6 yrs at the center, and did not reduce corruption by any measure. Its just that the last 8 yrs have seen an explosion of riches due to IT-fueled growth. These riches (without proportionate taxation) have multiplied the gaps that exist between rich and poor. Issues which were present in the BJP regime have gotten compounded now, and the resultant crime has proportionately increased as well. I do not believe that the BJP possesses any superior intellect or advantage to resolve these issues. All the leaders in the Lok Sabha are tired oldies, who are totally disconnected from the common man.

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  11. And Moreover, the death of tomar singh, Delhi policeman is attributed to cardiac arrest not any inetrnal injuries as reported by some media outlets.

    Even congress’s own channel ( Its NDTV and you are watching congress 24/7) has let the cat out ..

    http://khabar.ndtv.com/videos/live/channel/ndtvindia

    ps : 36 min onwards

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  12. some good points there ny kavi & amy ..
    (although this can be misitnerpreted) have always felt that indian constitutions gives TOO much freedom for their citizens–for some of them, the ‘freedom’ is too much 4 their own good.
    Measures like compulsory population control (restriction to 1/2 kids etc) should have been enforced long back and across all religions ….

    and so on
    sometimes a bit of stick IS essential!!

    “Some of the girls who were protesting at India gate had to suffer molestation from the guys already present; there were 35 molestation cases registered that day.”
    thanx tony for that info
    Even the protesting girls molested !!! now is this a ‘free for all’ situation or what !

    Like

    • Its just the culture of NCR. Males are largely insensitive to female concerns. As can be seen on TV, most female protestors in the crowds were jeans-clad young girls. Not at all surprised that 35 of them were molested. The avg NCR male cannot control himself upon the sight of a girl in jeans. Its just not the unwashed masses, even educated professionals cannot but ‘help’ themselves to a grope when confronted with a sea of women in NCR. The objectification of females out there is culturally ingrained.
      Should we not blame bwood for heightening this male-insensitivity with all their item songs?

      Like

  13. tonymontana Says:

    ami, my guess is everyone else’s.. I know a few who went to India Gate to protest and I know a lot who have moved on after sharing statuses and comments on FB and otherwise. I think Delhi isnt in the picture anymore, except for being the center of the country where these protests are happening. Dunno how long they will continue. Other than that, the discussions n debates are being carried out all over the country.

    Though let me tell you that as a Delhiite, I dont feel one bit proud of the city . this incident has affected me like no other piece of news has ever. It’s this fear of being helpless, of what would happen if Im unable to protect the women I know.

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    • Your last sentence is on the money Tony. I would not lie to u- I sometime that my sisters would not have been studying in Delhi. In Maharashtra the situation is much better. Though it’s again bad in UP- Lucknow is no more the ‘tehzeeb’ ka shaher.

      One of the things adopted by girls of my college is that if they are going out and they see one of the fellow male college student like us, they request us to move alongside them if we are going to the same place etc. Many a times i have myself dropped them to their desired place from my bike in case i see them alone

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      • tonymontana Says:

        dunno about maharashtra and UP saurabh. have never stayed there. But I guess rapes have a lot to do with the condescending attitude men have for women in India. It has A LOT to do with the prevalent practice of gender inequality and lack of education. Most men grow up with the idea that they’re superior to women and the latter deserve to be treated like doormats / objects of desire.

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      • Tony- thanks for that honest and heartfelt comment.

        Saurabh- That is really distressing to hear. At my university, in a small town in England, there is a bus service from town back to the Uni until 3 a.m., and it’s not an uncommon sight to see female students walking around town and back to Uni at this hour without any fear. I was talking with a group of my friends yesterday, and we were discussing the safety of women in India. When my friends and I who study in Singapore/ the UK talked about how girls in other countries can go around town well past midnight in short clubbing clothes etc, and still not ‘invite’ any molestation, my friends who’re studying in Bangalore/ Madras were frankly incredulous.

        Like

        • +1
          in most places, forget 3am –one can see females casually moving around at any time with NO threat/fear( & in ‘short clubbing clothes’)–as it should be!
          its a free world

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          • I agree- I think that clothing etc is completely irrelvant- I only mentioned the clubbing clothes since there were comments on this thread about how even wearing jeans endangers women in Delhi.

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          • Ami, you are talking of ideal scenarios, which largely exist only in the West. Except for the upper-middle/upper classes, people in India have not yet gotten used to the sight of girls in tight-fitting clothes roaming around in their local areas.

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          • “clothing etc is completely irrelvant”
            yeah agree– though atleast ‘something basic’ should be worn, ..preferably
            Nudism isnt allowed (yet)

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        • Well U girls are lucky. In my college girls cannot stay out of the campus after 9:30.

          And I would advice every male here to think twice before taking a female to a single screen north indian movie theatre- I had gone with one of my female friends to watch Singham in one such movie hall and it was a horrific experience. People stare at the chick as if they want to eat her alive. One can hear the choicest of expletives and innuendoes innuendoes being used

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          • NyKavi- I’m not saying that this will be possible in India anytime soon, just saying that it’s pretty sad that some of the girls I talked to cannot even *imagine* that women in other parts of the world have such freedom!

            Saurabh- 9.30 is a reasonable curfew given the Indian scenario IMO. The colleges here in Madras are much stricter.

            Like

          • I once flew with wife and kids in a first-class section flying from Dubai to Jaipur via Delhi. A dhoti-clad middle aged guy embarked at Delhi and sat in the adjacent aisle. I assumed the guy must be a politician, to be sitting in first class. Throughout the flight, he would not lift his eyes off my wife. I was pissed, kept staring back at him, but the guy would not relent. He got off at Jaipur, and quickly got escorted with some policwallah, thus affirming my assumption that he was a politician of some sort. This is the state of affairs. But when these guys travel abroad, they become total bheegi-billis.

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        • Oh! Did not know abt it Ami. And being a north Indian I hate to say this but south Indian males exhibit MUCH better behaviour in public, their dressing sense notwithstanding (kidding on the last bit)

          I think for starters in order to develop a healthier male-female relationship sex-education should be made compulsary. I say this as someone who studied in an All boys boarding school that many boys, atleast in such school, more often than not only think of a woman as a sex object (not saying that they think abt raping them but that they do not have much understanding of a woman)

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  14. ^^great comment tony !!
    “It’s this fear of being helpless, of what would happen if Im unable to protect the women I know.” wow–well said!!
    “I know a few who went to India Gate to protest and I know a lot who have moved on after sharing statuses and comments on FB and otherwise.”–hmm
    besides–those who fixed up sites to meet up & date etc

    Those who have tried breaking even traffic lights in the west and then were sent photographic evidence to prove it–know that its no good to break the law usually !
    Its this sort of DETERRENCE thats needed.
    Humans are naughty creatures–if left on their own–they WILL create mischief –unless ‘restrained’ appropriately !!

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  15. “The avg NCR male cannot control himself upon the sight of a girl in jeans. Its just not the unwashed masses, even educated professionals cannot but ‘help’ themselves to a grope when confronted with a sea of women in NCR. The objectification of females out there is culturally ingrained.
    Should we not blame bwood for heightening this male-insensitivity with all their item songs?”
    ahaha

    thats the comment of the day !!!
    Perhaps women there should be forced to wear skirts etc not jeans then…

    Like

    • How about chop off the hands of a guy who tries to grope? That would be the best deterrent, isnt it? As I said, a jungleraj needs a shock to sensitise its inhabitants. A few chopping hands at India Gate would all but finish off molestation in the NCR (National Capital of Rape).

      Like

  16. oh sorry–realised skirts may make it worse–i take it back!!
    maybe saris…

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  17. btw lets not forget the areas in the states where even guys feel scared of being ‘molested’ or atleast mugged!!
    Anyone here from new york–knock knock…
    in general, europe is better (till now) in this respect

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  18. Last year i changed flights on delhi airport (transit).
    I noticed this ‘jeans’ phenomenon.
    I was later chatting with the (indian) air hostess(who also wore smart trousers) and she informed me that girls wearing anything other than jeans are considered ‘behanjis’ now–is it true-perhaps media/films have an ‘aspirational effect’

    as ny kavi pointed out–item songs etc
    also as amy pointed out how she doesnt see any half saris at all now–no wonder….

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  19. In reference to this comment, the guy posted this after the protest in Delhi.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Ahmedabad-woman-daughter-kill-Mumbai-stockbroker-cut-him-into-17-pieces/articleshow/17735753.cms?

    And of course Subhash Tomar’s death.

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    • The difference is that the stockbroker’s was an awful, monstorous crime but not part of a culture of larger social violence against one gender. India is ranked the 3rd worst country in the world for women (only two war-torn regions, congo and Afghanistan rank lower). I’m not denying that men aren’t the victims of awful crimes as well but trying to equate the dangers that both genders face is to greatly trivialize the female-specific problems present in Indian society.

      Again, out of around 250,00 cases of violent crime registered in India last year, 225,000 vicitms were women.

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      • You are right. It’s not even a comparable situation. But these days women are sexually harassing men esp in offices in etc. My friends living abroad have also told how women in offices use men (both sexually and otherwise) and then themselves accuse them of harassment – basically like Disclosure

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  20. Thanx munna for this other angle
    Kudos to u
    Also hope things are ok at home 😉
    Te other day u were about to open up about male domestic abuse by spouses but then stopped
    C’mon munna –it’s your own blog
    Take out your anger–we are with u

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  21. I actually wish, there are more Ponty Chaddha type of cases. Here is a guy who played the system to the hilt, built an empire out of corruption; land-grabbing, illicit liquor production and sale, etc. You name it, he did it. Finally, both him and his brother kill each other. What a poetic justice to the ending, and perhaps some retribution to the souls of people whose lives they destroyed. We need more Ponty Chaddha murders in India, that can perhaps cleanse the system.

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  22. The common man in India including the police see celebrities (Salman is the biggest example), politicians and the wealthy committing crimes and getting away with crimes. So why should they be any different? Then most movies and TV serials rarely show strong women unless they are conniving women who get their comeuppance to satisfy the male ego. The portrayal of courting women usually involves some stalking and boorish behavior which is shown as romantic and what women like in a man.

    Also parents (sad to say but primarily mothers) raise boys (I refuse to call them men) to expect to get or take what they want including women. They are raised differently from girls. This is just not in India but a problem worldwide. However due to strict law enforcement, sexual harassment and rape in other countries are not as out of control as in India where it occurs blatantly.

    BTW there is a lot of mistreatment of women (human trafficking, sexual slavery, etc.) in some other countries like Thailand, Eastern Europe and the Middle East but it happens behind closed doors and is not exposed to the public.

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  23. Actually there is some truth to that portrayal. It has been proved that girls often like ‘bad boys’

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    • How has it been ‘proved’? And when women say that they like bad boys they mean in terms of being edgy, unpredictable, adventurous, rebellious etc not in terms of abusing women!

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      • I of course didn’t mean that they like abusive males but that they like a certain violent kind of man sometimes.

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        • Again, not violent agianst women! A man who is protective of women and fights for her appeals to some women, but not a man who harasses women. Maybe that’s what you meant, and I misunderstood you…

          Like

      • Read this

        Nerds knew it, dweebs knew it and now scientists know it. Women really do love violent criminals and dangerous psychopaths

        “Bad boys, it seems, really do get all the girls. Women might claim they want caring, thoughtful types but scientists have discovered what they really want – self-obsessed, lying psychopaths.

        A study has found that men with the “dark triad” of traits – narcissism, thrill- seeking and deceitfulness – are likely to have a larger number of sexual affairs.

        Peter Jonason, of New Mexico University in Las Cruces, believes that these traits may have an innate, genetic component that explains why some men seem unable to stop themselves behaving badly.

        The dark triad of traits are the self-obsession of narcissism, the impulsive, thrill-seeking and callous behaviour of psychopaths and the deceitful and exploitative nature of Machiavellianism. “We have some evidence these traits may represent a successful evolutionary strategy,” Dr Jonason told New Scientist magazine.”

        http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/2620811/1/

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        • LOL! One survey that distorts facts is hardly proof.

          “A study has found that men with the “dark triad” of traits – narcissism, thrill- seeking and deceitfulness – are likely to have a larger number of sexual affairs.”

          If a man has psycopathic tendencies, then the chances are that he attracts emotionally unstable women who are more likely to be looking for meaningless sex and short term flings than a normal man who is more likely to attract women with greater emotional stability and maturity who desire long-term relationships. I’m not saying that all women who want flings are emotionally damaged ofcourse, but there is a clearly established link between emotional damage/ low self esteem and ‘promiscous’ patterns of behaviour in both men and women. This doesn’t necessarily mean that these men and women are considered more attractive by the general population.

          Thankfully there are several sane comments on the thread:

          “Isn’t this a trivial result? Aren’t these “dark triad” traits exactly the sort of traits that would lead men to want to have many partners and short-term affairs, when men with the opposite traits generally seek long-term relationships with a single partner? So isn’t this article just saying “men with dark triad traits are better than men without those traits at living the kind of life that men with dark triad traits prefer”? If the study measured success by long-term pair bonding, then wouldn’t the success rate be inverted?”

          Another good comment:

          “It’s hard to generalise with all people of a given sex, but in short, women (competitive ones at least) like danger and spontaneity, “violent psychopaths” being an extreme example”

          Yes, many women do like men who are tough enough to protect them, and who have an unpredticable, thrill-seekign element to them. To take this to the extreme and to conclude that women love psychopaths who are violent to them, as this study has done, is just plain idiotic.

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        • Thanks Saurabh. I was really wondering what’s my drawback when it comes to poly-amory!!!!

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  24. And Indian men can learn something from the desi males who are living abroad- since these men behave like a well-mannered stud they end up being respected by the gori mems. That can be one reason which attracts foreign chicks to Indian men.

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    • Rajenmaniar Says:

      I can understand the anger and the frustration at such heinous incidents. Unfortunately, a lot of stuff above is pretty juvenile and poorly thought out.A lot of gross misrepresentation and unfair generalization .
      Unfulortinately, an inability to have a sensible meaningful discussion instead of hand wringing , fanciful extreme reactions preclude any realistic change.

      Am all for stricter laws, more forceful carrying out of existing laws, even some more extreme forms of punishment etc.
      To think Dubai and UAE are in. Anyway superior is stupidity of highest order.

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      • I know that it’s hard for many people to accept but India IS one of the worst countries in the world for women, more so than the UAE.

        Read this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2011/06/15/most-dangerous-countries-to-be-a-woman/

        There are several other such surveys and reports from international gender experts that I can provide if you think that just one source is not enough.

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        • And of course this is not just the fault of men, but of women as well, as Tyler mentions.

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          • in the middle east–women cant go out without their heads covered (forget short pub clothes), cant consume alcohol (even guys cant), women cant drive, cant have boyfriends (unlike india)–i think
            in some places of middle east–promiscuity equates to ‘adultery’ which leads to being stoned to death
            indias better than that, i think

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          • when women cant do either of these things (driving, going out, socialising, alcohol, promiscuity) etc–no wonder, it seems safer in the middle east lol
            ps–switzerland is one of the safest places-no wonder, oldgold is always partying out 🙂

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          • Women can go out without their heads covered in the UAE. It’s only in Saudi Arabia that women cannot drive.And whilst women are legally permitted to consume alcohol in India, the cultural disapproval is still strong- incidents like the men beating up women in the pub in Bangalore show this.

            Also, female feoticide and infanticde is much more rampant in India, and we have several culturally unique social evils like dowry harassment and dowry deaths (in Islamic countries, it’s the man’s family that gives the woman’s family dowry).

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          • I’m talking about the average Indian woman, the majority of whom are poor and/ or living in rural areas and small towns- not the upper/ upper-middle class in the big cities, who definitely have it a lot better.

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          • ami, how are women at faults? being beautiful or good-looking or just a weaker sex is not a fault. Mankind has still the roots of animals who are by instinct polygamous. But the moral laws, institution of marriage (which was introduced to curb this polygamy – but has miserably failed as we all know that prostitution is unofficially the no. 1 business in the world) and social taboos have made the life a hypocratic one for the most. Married women have almost no say when the husband demands sex unless both the hubby and wife are good friends also and have a mutual understanding. What I feel is the need of proper sexual education in the school right from the age of 10. But we have certain organization who frown when they hear the word sex. This is a very serious issue and perhaps the most ignored one. So whenever a rape happens people make lot of noise (and rightly so) but no one wants to go to the roots or at-least try to find the roots. Young generation is trying to break-free by frequently having the sex with different partners without much noise (not that this is a solution but it is an attempt to break-free from the stupid moral taboos which forces to curb the natural instincts. Sex impulse is a force of nature as much as the urge to pee and shit – and when one tries to curb any of these, it results in sickness – mental and physical)

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        • Ami,
          You might want to look at the 2010 Human Rights report on UAE
          http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/nea/154475.htm

          This part is particularly important:
          Rape is punishable by death under the penal code, but in Sharia courts the extremely high burden of proof often meant that there were few convictions. The penal code does not address spousal rape. There were widespread and frequent reports that foreign domestic workers were raped and sexually assaulted by their employers.

          Domestic abuse against women, including spousal abuse, was a common problem. The penal code allows men to use physical means, including violence, at their discretion against female and minor family members. Nevertheless, some domestic abuse cases may be filed as assault without intent to kill, punishable by 10 years in prison if death results, seven years for permanent disability, and one year for temporary injury. Such cases were rare. Victims of domestic abuse may file complaints with police units stationed in major public hospitals. There were several reports that police refused to protect women if they made such complaints; instead, police reportedly encouraged women to return home. In some cases, authorities contacted the allegedly abusive husbands to transport their wives home.

          On October 5, the Federal Supreme Court upheld a husband’s right to “chastise” his wife and children with physical force, so long as the “chastisement” did not result in bruising. On October 8, the director of the Judicial Inspection Department at the Ministry of Justice, Humaid al Muhairi, released a statement clarifying the government’s position on domestic abuse, saying that the “full force of the law will continue to be brought against those who may exercise chastisement of any kind, verbal or otherwise, beyond acceptable bounds.”

          Social workers and counselors, usually female, also maintained offices in public hospitals and police stations. Women often were reluctant to file formal charges of abuse for social, cultural, and economic reasons.

          The government could prosecute harassment via the penal code prohibition on “disgracing or dishonoring” a person in public, punishable by a minimum of one year in prison and as long as 15 years if the victim is younger than 14-years-old; an “infamous” act against the rules of decency, which carries a penalty of six months in prison; or “dishonoring a woman by word or deed on a public roadway,” which could result in up to one year in prison and a 10,000 dirham (approximately $2,700) fine. However, such prosecutions rarely occurred in practice.

          Couples and individuals had the right to decide freely and responsibly the number, spacing, and timing of their children, and to have the information and means to do so free from discrimination, coercion, and violence. According to the most recent UN estimates, the maternal mortality rate in the country was 10 deaths per 100,000 live births in 2008. A study released by the UAE Women’s Federation in November noted that skilled medical personnel attended 99 percent of births. There was no information on prenatal and postnatal care. Statistics on the use of modern contraceptive methods accessible to both married and single women were unavailable; however, various contraceptives were widely available. There was no information on whether men and women are treated and diagnosed equally treatment for sexually transmitted infections, including HIV.

          Women faced legal and economic discrimination. The government’s interpretation of Sharia applied in personal status cases and family law. Muslim women were forbidden to marry non-Muslims. Unlike men, female citizens married to noncitizens did not automatically pass citizenship to their children. The law permits a man to have as many as four wives. Women normally inherited less than men under the government’s interpretation of Sharia. For example, a son may inherit double what a daughter inherits when their parent dies.

          In order for a woman to obtain a divorce with a financial settlement, she must prove that her husband has inflicted physical or moral harm upon her, has abandoned her for at least three months, or has not maintained her upkeep or that of their children. Alternatively women may divorce by paying compensation or surrendering their dowry to their husbands. The law gives divorced fathers custody of female children above the age of 13 and male children above the age of 10.

          On August 23, the Federal Supreme Court ruled that, in decisions on child custody, the interests of the child come first. In the ruling, the court granted a divorced woman custody of her seven sons, despite the eldest being older than 10 years old. The court established a precedent essentially limiting the application of Sharia to custody cases.

          Fornication outside of marriage is a crime, and the government may imprison and deport noncitizen women if they bear children out of wedlock. Paternity denial was an emerging problem in the courts. Despite DNA tests proving paternity, the courts could not force a man to accept paternal responsibility. In the absence of an acknowledged father, the mothers of these children faced potential legal charges of adultery, for which the punishment can be lashing, according to media reports.

          No law prohibits women from working or owning businesses, and a man has no right under the government’s interpretation of Sharia to ban his wife from working if she was employed at the time of their marriage; however, some husbands reportedly did so. Women who worked outside the home regularly did not receive equal benefits, and women also reportedly faced discrimination in promotions and earning equal wages.

          Women constituted approximately 75 percent of university students. Coeducation is prohibited in public schools and universities except in the United Arab Emirate University’s Executive MBA program. Several private schools, private universities, and institutions were coeducational.

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          • Rajen, nobody is denying the fact that the UAE has an awful human rights record, especially when it comes to women. It obviously does, but the point is that India is even worse. According to the UN, India is the most dangerous country in the world in which to be born a girl:

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9054429/India-most-dangerous-place-in-world-to-be-born-a-girl.html

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          • The only reason this happens is because the UAE has a very strict immigration policy which kicks out first time offenders and en masse blocks countries from seeking visa if expatriates from those countries commit crime.
            I recently had a chance conversation with a Lt Col of Police in Dubai. He mentioned that since Bangladeshis have been behind a recent spurt in crime, they decided to stop issuing visas to Bangladesh! Next came Pakistan in number of crimes. Indians, despite being the largest immigrant group were hardly involved in physical crime. They were mostly being deported due to white-collar crime, especially, check-bouncing!
            The very same Indians who dont care a hoot in India, suddenly turn to bheegi-billees in UAE.
            There is no way an Indian city can exercise immigration or entry-exit policies. So to compare the two is illogical.
            However, with much stronger law and order, at least the UAE does not have women being gang-raped in moving vehicles. Or have acid thrown at them, etc. Women in Dubai travel on the metro late at night, take taxi-cabs and walk about without any fear. There is a huge travel industry, with all those ritzy hotels employing women, and even have staff quarters where men-women reside together. Yet, you will rarely hear about rapes in those places. How is that as compared to Delhi?

            Like

          • Good points — but a woman having to keep her head covered, not being able to socialise with men, forget flirt, or indulge in intimacy/adultery, unable to drive, always at risk of being ‘divorced’ by three simple words,unable to cinsume alcohol/smoke, forget ‘express her sexuality and individuality’ isn’t a good idea (either in the Middle East!)
            Also there are reports of lots of sexual harrassment of this immigrant female workforce which is hushed up in the Middle East!
            Correct me if Im wrong but all folks going to the Middle East to work first have to surrender their passport first ie they can’t leave the country without permission of their employer ! What the heck!!
            What will those poor low strata workers be doing Incase of conflict at work…
            Yeah situation in India doesn’t seem any better probably worse but Middle East isn’t the haven for women as it seems so
            Anyhow Amy– beware of those rich sheiks –they are as naughty ( as they are perverted ) 🙂

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          • Again, a woman doesn’t have to keep her head covered in Dubai. And the nightlife in Dubai is actually a lot better than that of Indian cities, with a larger number of clubs, most of which stay open until 3 a.m. Of course, it is still an extremely patriarchal society, but it’s not at all true that all the women walk about in purdahs and that there is no socializing or partying. A woman can take the public transport, even at night, with less fear of groping/ molestation/ rape than in Delhi.

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          • And of course the women in Dubai can drive. Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that prohibits women from driving, but even there, women are protesting and defying this law.

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          • Also- I certainly didn’t say that the Middle-Mast is heaven for women. It’s well-known the world over that women are second class citizens in the Middle-East, and that most of these countries have an awful human rights record. Which is why it’s shameful that India, the world’s largest democracy, is even worse than all of these countries when it comes to gender inequality and women’s safety.

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          • Dubai isn’t equal to Middle East
            Those enjoying/ used to ‘short pub clothes’ and ‘total freedom’ & ‘django unchained weekends’ shouldn’t suddenly idolise the Middle East
            🙂

            Like

          • A simple primer on the middle-east: The richest 6 are the GCC countries: Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE and Oman. All the rest of the Islamic countries are poorer and have various degrees of crime issues. Except Saudi, women in all the other GCC countries can drive, not have to wear the hijab, can work along-side men, and also go to co-ed schools. The only schools which are not co-ed are religious schools. The rest of the schools, especially the ones run by expatriates (Indian, British, Pakistani, American, etc) are all co-ed, and some are straight out of a KJo movie. Kuwait does not have any alcohol. But the rest have alcohol permits. These permits are income-based monthly quotas available ot expatriates, but local Arabs are pohibited from obtaining these permits. So they just go and drink at all the bars. Dubai is the most liberal of all.
            It is something to say that a city in an Islamic country has more freedom than even Delhi or Mumbai. For eg, one can go clubbing till 3am and not be bothered about that hockey-stick Marathi police commissioner barging into your face.
            One does have to limit Public Display of Affection, and there are no gayrights, so tough luck to those folks.
            But seriously, there are thousands of well-to-do Indians buying up property in Dubai, so that they can fly 2 hrs every weekend, have a whale of a time and go back to the grime-n-grunt in India for the week. They also get to maintain NRI status, and avoid paying taxes in India, do hawala and convert black-to-white, etc. Mumbai was trying to become Shanghai, but looks like the winner is Dubai.

            Like

          • thanx 4 the info nykavi–but the type of ‘freedom’ some of us are used to in the west–isnt possible in the middle east hahaa
            anyhow—this is a link posted by ann jo–plz see after 12.00
            @amy–see the ‘requirements’ for a driver/stuff on skype
            https://satyamshot.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/pandit-ravi-shankar-passes-away/#comment-201182
            btw do u still have your passport or has it been taken away?
            disclaimer–the above clip was posted by ann jo–not by me lol

            Like

          • AA, I dont live in Dubai, so no question of my passport being taken away. I am here enjoying the freedoms of the US of A; (whilst paying a hefty tax to enjoy said freedoms).
            Btw, employers out in the middle-east do take away passports of their expatriate employees. There are no H1B visas that enable people to jump from one job to another like here in the US. For the employers, this is a way to make sure that the worker pays up the cost of getting them into the country. Also, it ensures that those who indulge in illegal activities cant just fly off back to their motherland. It is an extreme rule, but it does aid in the law-n-order enforcement overall.

            Like

  25. @ munna–whether or not its your blog–plz free to xpress your ‘feelings’ on male domestic abuse–dont hold bak–i sense u have something to share but are hesitating lol
    @ tyler–some honest and sensible thoughts
    Presuming u are a guy, that makes it more creditable
    @ ann-what happened to your ‘double bill movies’ plan-still blogging away?
    @ anya–hope u r safe in nyc…

    Like

  26. This is hilarious! A Haryana Khap leader says that Chowmein is the cause for rape

    “A Haryana Khap leader has come up with his own novel explanation, where he lays the blame squarely on…”Chowmein”.

    “To my understanding, consumption of fast food contributes to such incidents. Chowmein leads to hormonal imbalance evoking an urge to indulge in such acts,” Jitender Chhatar, a resident of Jind’s Chhatar village and khap panchayat leader, was quoted as saying to a media website.

    Haryana khaps have been on a roll ever since the growing hue and cry over the increasing incidences of crimes against women in the state.
    “You also know the impact of chowmein, which is a spicy food, on our body. Hence, our elders also advised to consume light and nutritious food,” said Chhatar expounding on his theory. The Khap leader also said that cultural changes, growing obscenity in movies, explicit music and the fast food trend is eroding cultural values.”

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/khap-rape-chowmein/1/225031.html

    Like

  27. Dr shaurya Says:

    टूटे हुए सपने की सुने कौन सिसकी,

    अंतर को चीर व्यथा पलकों पर ठिठकी I

    हार नहीं मानूंगा , रार नई ठानूंगा ,

    काल के कपाल पर लिखता – मिटाता हूँ I

    गीत नया गाता हूँ I ” — अटल बिहारी वाजपेयी

    Like

  28. Dr shaurya Says:

    Police officers Didnt helped the Dying constable.. They left him to die… It was the Protesters group that took him to the Hospital and gave him First aid.. NDTV

    Like

  29. Dr shaurya Says:

    For congress By Ghalib… still relevant

    gai wo bat k ho guftagu to kyonkar ho
    kahe se kuch na hua phir kaho to kyonkar ho

    hamare zahan main is fikr ka hai nam wisal
    k gar na ho to kahan jayen ho to kyonkar ho

    adab hai aur yahi kashmakash to kya kije
    haya hai aur yahi gomago to kyonkar ho

    tumhin kaho k guzra sanam paraston ka
    buton ki ho agar aisi hi khu to kyonkar ho

    Like

  30. NEW DELHI: The 23-year-old gang-rape victim has reportedly been shifted out from Delhi’s Safdarjung hospital. According to Times Now, the victim — who was brutally assaulted on December 16 — is said to be flown out of the country for better medical attention.

    Sources said the girl could be flown to Singapore later tonight depending on the approval of doctors.

    According to reports, the health ministry has contacted a speciality hospital in Singapore to shift the girl.

    The decision to flow out the victim out of the country was taken during a cabinet meeting which was chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

    Earlier, though the condition of the victim was a “shade better” on Tuesday, doctors say there has been no significant improvement and continued to be critical.

    Doctors attributed the improvement in her vital parameters like blood pressure, pulse, platelet and white blood cell counts to the supplementation give to her. Though the internal bleeding, which had started on Sunday, was brought under control on Tuesday, doctors say the chances of a relapse are high. They are counselling her family as she needs “emotional support for rehabilitation”.

    “Her white blood cell and platelet counts have improved, but she continues to be critical. The bilirubin level has shot to 7.2 due to infection and is a cause of concern,” said Dr Sunil Jain, senior surgeon at Safdarjung Hospital who operated the victim thrice. On Tuesday, the girl’s platelet and WBC counts were 81,000 and 5600 respectively, and she also had a high fever.

    For the past three days, doctors had been worried about an internal bleeding, which is now somewhat under control. “The bleeding had reduced significantly by Tuesday. We have given her fresh frozen plasma and single donor plasma to help in coagulation. Due to Disseminated Intravascular Coagulopathy there was excessive bleeding. But she has responded to the therapy,” said Dr MC Misra, chief AIIMS Trauma Centre.

    On Tuesday, doctors subjected her to another psychological assessment before her statement was recorded for the second time.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Delhi-gang-rape-victim-shifted-from-hospital-to-be-flown-abroad-for-treatment/articleshow/17773431.cms

    Like

    • Atlast government is taking some positive measures to save the victim while the opposition parties are trying to fish in troubled waters.

      Like

    • I feel that as long as the victim is in Delhi, there will be protests affecting normal life. That maybe the reason for taking her out of the country. Delhi has some of the best hospitals in the world and she could have been treated in Delhi itself. But our media will not allow the treatment go peacefully and they will pester the doctors, victim’s relatives endlessly.

      Like

      • Its not Delhi has best medical facilities, sometimes its better to know the right reasons, Singapore super speciality hospital Mt Elzibeth of gleneagles group is famous for Organ transplant and its not congress govt is doing any favour or charity, its only when core group met and found that Death of girl( God forbid) will be catastrophe and protest may go viral and get heat, they decided for it. its not again opposition but congress govt only which is doing every rick to Obfuscate the issue, tomar’s death, Delhi CM vs Delhi’s PC, set up another commission whose report is not legally binding, all this is nothing but Buying time and allowing the news to die, so that System remains as its is( System : Politician, police and Gundas/corporate nexus). Nobody is raising the real issue…

        Prayers for the 23 yr old Brave Survivor.

        Like

    • The overwhelming majority of comments on the TOI article assume that the girl is either dead or about to die, and that this move is nothing more than a cover up by the government, so that the death will officially take place out of the country. It shows how little confidence people have in their government. What I find puzzling is, with so little trust, how do these same politicians keep getting reelected?

      Like

      • Some news chanels like ABP and even IBNLive on thier site is running this info :

        ‘Gangrape survivor had a heart attack on Tuesday’

        rest, Ppl have no choice, they are between devil( congress/UPA) and deep sea( BJP?NDA).

        Like

  31. Amitabh Bachchan donates money to Subhash Tomar’s family

    http://www.dnaindia.com/videos/1781886

    Like

  32. New Delhi: Girls in the country are facing discrimination and to correct it, the prevailing mindset has to be changed, Louis Georges Arsenault, UNICEF’s India head said in New Delhi on Tuesday.
    Millions of adolescent girls in India, and across the globe, are not given the same opportunities to grow and develop on an equal footing with boys, Arsenault said.
    “Girls are suffering from discrimination confronted with many issues like female foeticide, access to education and growing and child marriage. This being said, it s difficult not to be moved and deeply affected by gang rapes happening here in the city,” he added.
    The UNICEF official said this situation had fundamentally to do with women’s status in the society. “The adolescent and girl child are being seen as a community that can be disposed of. It s a mindset that needs to be challenged and one way to address this is to raise our voice for change in social norms,” he added.
    Arsenault was speaking at the launch of the Cheer-O-Meter website In New Delhi on Tuesday.

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/girls-in-india-discriminated-mindset-must-change-unicef-officer/312510-3.html

    Like

  33. Priyanka Chopra’s words during UNICEF meet.
    The actor-singer took the opportunity to lash-out against the lot who blame women for provoking men. “A lot of people have said that girls wear provocative clothes or go out at night and drink, which prompts men to take advantage of them. Some even hold Bollywood songs responsible for it. But the only thing responsible for a woman getting raped is a man’s mindset. There is no other reason for it. I could be walking naked, but you still don’t have the right to rape me,” she pointed out.

    The actor however suggests that women must learn to protect themselves: “Girls should go out in groups and make sure they carry pepper spray or something with which they can protect themselves with. Mothers should also teach their sons to respect a woman rather than telling their daughters to not wear this or that. That is the world we need. Meanwhile, girls should protect themselves.”

    The 30-year-old actor, who’s UNICEF’s Goodwill Ambassador, thinks that it is heart-warming that several young Bollywood actors have come out strongly against the rape.“Celebrities have the power to draw attention of the masses to an issue, since people listen to us. And I think it is my social responsibility as a celebrity to use the platform that I have to create awareness,” she said.

    Other Bollywood actors on the Delhi gangrape case:

    Deepika Padukone, actor: It is high time we did something about stopping such crimes. The rules and laws should be a lot more strict and action needs to be taken, much faster.

    Sonakshi Sinha, actor: But what’s the point if the trial goes on for 10 long years … rape calls for immediate death … set an example, sow the fear. There’s nothing worse you can do to a woman

    Shahid Kapoor, actor: We will talk about this for a few days and move on …. Is this who we are or who we have become …If we cannot make every woman feel safe in this country #WEFAIL.

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Bollywood/Nobody-has-the-right-to-rape-me-says-Priyanka-Chopra/Artic

    Like

  34. so the girls being shifted to singapore–yeah that centre apparently better organ transplant facilities but getting an air ambulance etc isnt ideal in this scenario –5-6 hours flight
    Main point being—the govt of india wishes to prove its giving the ‘best possible treatment’ to the girl now that the case has become so prominent
    Also, till she was in delhi–protests will only incirease esp if her situation worsens
    As for medical facilities–not sure if delhis medical facilities are any worse
    The whole world has indian doctors…infact folks go to india to get surgical experience given the volumes apparently!
    So this seems a PR eyewash
    depressing really

    Like

  35. NEW DELHI: The 23-year-old Delhi gang-rape victim, who was flown out to Singapore in an air ambulance for specialised treatment, was admitted to the Mount Elizabeth hospital on Thursday morning.

    The plane carrying the girl landed at the Changi International Airport at 7.30am(5am IST), the Indian High Commission in Singapore said, confirming the girl’s arrival.

    Earlier, Late on Wednesday night, the rape victim was flown in a special air ambulance to Singapore.

    “Her health is precarious, that’s the main issue before the government,” said a Union minister, not wanting to be identified. Doctors at Safdarjung Hospital where Nirbhaya (a symbolic name given to the victim by the TOI) was being treated for the last one week were hesitant to hold out hope. “Still, the fight to save her is just as strong,” said a doctor.

    Safdarjung Hospital sources said Singapore’s Mount Elizabeth is equipped to deal with trauma and serious medical complications. It is also capable of carrying out multiple organ transplants. It is understood that Amar Singh’s kidney transplant took place at this hospital.

    Niirbhaya is being accompanied by Dr P K Verma, incharge of Safdarjung Hospital’s ICU, who is leading a team of doctors, many of them from Medanta. Her father and mother are also accompanying her. Three air ambulances have been pressed into service – two of Safdarjung Hospital’s and one of Medanta’s.

    The decision to take Nirbhaya to Singapore is understood to have been taken at the highest level. The Union cabinet discussed her worsening health condition on Wednesday morning and considered options for her medical care abroad. Government is also concerned about fresh protests if the worst can’t be averted, and is therefore keen to be seen to be doing its very best to save Nirbhaya. Nirbhaya’s condition worsened last night when she suffered a cardiac arrest and was revived after administration of CPR (cardiac pulmonary resuscitation). Through Wednesday, doctors at Safdarjung hospital struggled to fight the infection seeping through her body.

    Sources said the government has been considering the possibility of an intestine transplant but Nirbhaya can undergo this only after the sepsis threatening to overwhelm her weakened immune system recedes. Moving Nirbhaya abroad will also mean that Safdarjung hospital is no longer a focus of protestors and media attention.

    As word of Nirbhaya’s impending transfer spread, the crowd outside the hospital began to swell as protestors began to arrive along with BJP state chief Vidender Gupta. The victim was shifted from Safdarjung hospital in a Medanta ambulance, from the Gurgaon-based multi-speciality hospital run by heart surgeon Naresh Trehan. A team from Medanta also examined Nirbhaya on Wednesday.

    Speculation mounted earlier in the evening as for the first time in several days, there was no official word on Nirbhaya’s medical condition.

    Doctors did not issue a health bulletin and media persons were awaiting official word on her condition. Nirbhaya’s family members were also unavailable for information.

    Nirbhaya’s health concerns loomed in the backdrop of plans for a protest march by women’s groups on Thursday that had police on tenterhooks. Another round of protests could precipitate a fresh confrontation with the government.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Delhi-gang-rape-case-Girl-critical-admitted-to-Singapore-hospital/articleshow

    Like

  36. tonymontana Says:

    just heard another 42-year-old was gangraped in an SUV while going to Jaipur via Delhi..

    Like

    • What the hell? And this man is the president’s son?! But it’s good to see his sister publically criticize his comments instead of defending him, like some other relatives of similar men have done.

      Like

  37. A woman was gang-raped by 3 men in a village in Tamil Nadu, whilst her boyfriend escaped and ran away without so much as informing the police about her plight!

    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-26/chennai/36007233_1_cuddalore-government-boyfriend-woman

    Like

  38. Dr shaurya Says:

    I think Narendra Modi is the only Solution India has right now to this impotent Govt. of Congress… A strong headed man is what India needs in the present scinario.

    Like

  39. Dr shaurya Says:

    @saurabh… Its in media circles that Narendra Modi is contesting lok sabha elections 2014 from Lucknow. Is it True. There must be some news doing circles in Lucknow.

    Like

    • I also have heard similar stories. I hope he does. After Atal it has to be Modi. BJP has to come back

      Like

      • Dont forget gujarat riots or Surat riots or 1984 sikh riots where women were raped, pregnant women’s foetuses were pulled out and burnit. Before that we had hindu muslim riots during parition where it is the women who were humiliated mostly. Earth1947, Tamas, firaq etc. etc. show this although on a low key. the real thing was most horrific.
        BJP or Modi are not the solution. Or Emergency.
        If one goes on saying that BJP must get power, there is the danger of congress and others saying that BJP will stage more rapes to discredit the government. Thus politicising a social issue will only cloud the real issue and lead to more complications.

        Like

        • Agree mostly what you said above.

          What we need is complete overhaul of system, awareness and more effort by parets to pass ‘values’ to their male children. Sensitization and awareness along with breaking this politics, Police and guna nexus.

          having said this, but we also need leader not lucky sperms. Congress is leaderless and rudderless

          Like

          • In crisis situations, governments behave panicked.
            If you remember Godhra and gujarat riots took place when the so called efficient BJP government was ruling both at the central level and gujarat. Yet they could not prevent the mayhem in time.
            All the perfumes of arabia will not sweeten this little hand as Shakespeare said. All the subsequent victories in elections will not sweeten reputations.
            I agree the present government is not ready to wakeup until it is beaten. And the home minister’s remarks does not help. Remember what the home minister of Maharashtra said during mumbai seize by Kasab and his friends? Bade bade sheharon mein aise chote chote incidents hote hai!

            Like

          • remark not remarks

            Like

          • I agree- this is a social issue, not a political one. Better law enforcement will doubtlessly help, but preventing rape and sparing victims the agony is even better than punishing rapists. And to prevent rape, social changes are the only solution.

            At my University, there is a ‘men can stop rape’ campaign that teaches men to have a healthier idea of masculinity and sensitizes them to gendered violence. I believe that there is a large scale, nation-wide campaign on ‘Healthy Masculinity’ that has been launched in the USA to educate boys and prevent violence against women:

            http://www.mencanstoprape.org/Healthy-Masculinity-Action-Project/

            It’s time that India thinks of running a similar campaign, including education at school and college level, as well as gender sensitization training for the police force so that they stop blaming rape victims and star punishing the rapists. As somebody said “The problem with our society is that we teach women how to avoid getting raped instead of teaching men not to rape”.

            Like

          • A ‘sensitivity towards women’ session was held for the police force, and one of the invited speakers was a depraved woman who said that the rape victim should have atleast surrendered to the men instead of fighting, so that she could have saved her intestines!

            http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/MP-BHO-delhi-gang-rape-she-should-have-submitted-to-rape-says-woman-scientist-4128063-NOR.html

            Like

        • Dr shaurya Says:

          I dont believe in clinging on to the past too much. And the Silence Narendra modi opted for during gujrat riots was the only thing he could do. There was so much anger in public. Bcoz it was not some imported Terrorism from pakistan. It was home grown fanatism. Tea vendors , stall wala’s etc had turned into terrorists… I myself havent forgotten the guts of Gujrat muslims to burn 200+ of Karsevaks in that train at Godhra junction. I dont see any one even inquiring ever about the condition of half baked karsevaks in dat train and there orphaned family members. Gujrat muslims were not the only victims. There were others too.. But who cares about them. I think Narendra Modi did what should have been done.
          I would have done the same.

          Like

  40. myselfaamir Says:

    A very insightful and pertinent column when there is chaos and din everywhere-“The danger to women lurks within us”
    http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-danger-to-women-lurks-within-us/article4242142.ece?homepage=true

    Like

  41. Here comes another Bouncer from our President’s son and MP also from congress :

    Abhijit Mukherjee calls Anti- rape protesters ” Dented and Painted” and out of touch …

    Anything now more to say or hear 😦 ???

    Like

    • More witty tweets from Shirish Kunder:

      “So Abhijit Mukherjee goofs up today. This government is playing “Kaun Banega Mr. Bean?”

      “Abhijit Mukherjee’s sister apologizes for Abhijit Mukherjee’s comments and Pranab Mukherjee’s mother apologizes for Pranab Mukherjee.”

      Like

  42. Courses, seminars, campaigns, ‘candle light’ vigils etc are ok but there is an animal that needs to be kept in check by deterrence!
    Forget about India–recently saw dabang2 with some female acquaintances (including one Caucasian)
    The crowd here was more rowdy than usual (given Salmans film!)
    In key junctures (ESP with sonakshi around)–there were telling comments–while guys do Indluge in mischief and jokes –there is a line in real life that shouldn’t be crossed!!!
    Fortunately a stern look sorted them out or else there would have been another dabang screening in the seating area of the theatre –have been itching for some action for a while–haha

    A lesson for females –it doesn’t harm to be fit & adept at martial arts!
    A youtube link currently going around from India
    Watch this dabangesque gal –girls strike back !!!

    Like

  43. ^^Apparently this guy was offering the girl a lift in his pajero (it doesnt seem that it is HIS pajero though but thats besides the point!)–as per the blogs/links etc
    Am impressed by this dabang gals fitness level, kick boxing skills and hand-foot coordination !! (Besides her flowery language)
    Point to note is that the other guys are still just watching passively….(except one guy who joins in v late)
    But again that other poor girl wasn’t confronted by this meek guy but an army of perverted psychos in that bus–the fittest girl/guy çouldnt have coped with that unfortunately …

    Like

  44. Rhe victim has experienced 2 cardiac arrests, and now suffers from significant brain damage and infection of lungs and abdomen as well. And she still needs an intestine transplant. The cynics might have been right in believing that she was shifted to Singapore since the probability of her survival is very low, and the government would rather have her far away from the site of protests at the moment.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Delhi-gang-rape-case-Victim-fighting-for-her-life-hospital-says/articleshow/17792245.cms

    Like

  45. For those people suggesting that legalizing prostitution and strip clubs would help lower the rape, read this: A sex worker who was willing to offer 2 men her services for money, was gang-raped by them and several of their friends. Again, this shows that rape is not about sex, but about the satisifcation that rapists get from violent brutalization of women:

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/surat/Sex-worker-gang-raped-in-Surat/articleshow/17782631.cms

    Like

    • These things have become more common recently that is during the past 5 to 6 years. Is this because of watching porn and violent porn through internet?

      Like

  46. The bus that a 23-year-old medical student was brutally raped in earlier this month, was a repeat offender. According to the police, it had been challaned (fined) eight times and impounded six times in the last two years. In July this year, it was impounded for picking up passengers without a permit, much the way it was used on the evening that Amanat (NOT her real name) and her friend boarded it. It was released after the owner paid Rs. 2200 in fine.

    Satyendra Garg, who is the joint Commissioner of Police, Traffic, said today that the bus should not have been released in July. “At that time it was picked up from Lajpat Nagar and impounded, it has no fitness certificate, no valid permit for a chartered bus, next day it came up in court… the fine was Rs. 2200. The court ordered the vehicle be released to the rightful owner and the vehicle was released as Dinesh (Yadav the owner) paid the fine… My view is why do we have such a paltry fine? In this case since there was no permit, the vehicle should not have been released at all.”

    On December 16, the bus was again used by the driver, Ram Singh, one of the six men accused in the case, to make a quick buck by ferrying passengers. They picked up the young woman and her male friend at Munirka in south Delhi and then beat them, gangraped and tortured the girl, as the bus drove through a 31-km stretch without being stopped, despite having tinted windows and blinds which are not allowed in Delhi.

    Mr Garg tweeted earlier in the morning that the same bus had been challaned eight times and impounded six times in 2011 and 2012. “Could a harsher penalty structure have prevented this inhuman crime?” the top cop asked on Twitter.

    Police sources said the Delhi Transport Corporation had reportedly also complained to the transport department about the owner of the bus, Dinesh Yadav, several times, alleging that he forcibly ran private buses on bus routes, though he had permission only to run his vehicles as school buses.

    http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/bus-in-which-amanat-was-gang-raped-fined-8-times-in-last-two-years-police-310724?

    It is evident that courts also have to answer a lot.

    Like

  47. All of our daft politcians seem to be competing to see who can deliver the most misogynistic and monstorous comments about rape. The latest is the Bengali MLA Anisur Rehman:

    “Referring to the chief minister’s announcement a month ago to give Rs 20,000 to a rape victim, Rahaman, who is also the chairman of the public accounts committee, had reportedly said, “This is the same Mamata Banerjee who brought Champala Sardar to Writers’ Buildings claiming she was raped. She takes up those hela fela girls (women discarded by society). I told her if you want to bring some girls, bring some good ones. There is no better girl than you … We ask, didimoni what is your price? How much will you take for getting raped?”

    When even a chief minister can be targetted in public in such a sick manner, what hope does the average woman have? 😦

    Like

    • This incident is beyond disgusting and the perpetrators should be castrated in public. Congess, police and the politicians have a lot to answer for and obviously all possible measures should be taken to avoid this in future and offer women protection and ability to move about freely without fear of such animla attacking them.
      Having said that, I have noticed a tendency to get carried away and make sweeping statements about the law and order situation in India.For sure a single incident like this is one too many and there are many more such incidents. But, there ARE millions of women who freely move about in India without getting targetted. There are sick bastards too like this Bengali MLA and others who make similar statements and refuse to accept that this was a a heinous act that should not have happened. Instead of hand wringing and a blanket castigation of authorities, energy should be diverted in changing the situation.

      Like

  48. let us not get emotional. no one cares anyway…the channels cashed in with good trps and the protesters had a pleasant break from their boring routine life,with all the drama and tear gas and water cannons.life goes on..we should let the law take its own course.
    indian news media is an outrage machine constantly spewing anger in all directions. A witch-hunter merged into a hound smelling and finding all the evils that plague the society. With each passing minute the viewer is filled with alternating feeling of helplessness and murderous anger where the only option available to them is to pick up a bazooka and blast the system.

    Like

    • Dont be cynical. The channels are doing their duty, That is waking up sleeping people and ask uncomfortable questions. The girl sacrificed her life and her death will not go waste. It will make some other girls like her somewhat safe. How many of us can claim that? In death, she has made the system work for the betterment of common women who is at the receiving end of rapes and brutality.

      Like

      • cynicism is the only defense in the face of such brutality and despair. women in rural areas get gang raped on a daily basis. too many lives have gone to waste already and nothing has changed so far. at the risk of sounding callous, i am relieved i don’t live there any more. i have no hope things will get any better and as a woman i don’t feel safe amongst such mindsets.

        Like

  49. The brother of the young woman raped in Delhi has something important to say http://bit.ly/12LJKnE

    Like

  50. This is going to be a sad, sad new year..the girl is dead..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20860569

    Like

    • Rajenmaniar Says:

      Expected but still tragic. Now those mofos can be charged with murder.

      Like

    • Her chances for survival were very low in any case, but I can’t help wondering if her death was hastened by the ill-considered move to Singapore. The travel was obviously further trauma.

      Like

      • Rajenmaniar Says:

        Was a dumb decision. But the outlook was hopeless anyway.

        Like

        • Yes, that’s what I mean. It’s clear it was a decision made to reduce political fallout from her death, since the move was not recommended by the medical team caring for her, but by a committee consisting of the Home Minister, a medical consultant from a private hospital conglomerate (who were apparently asked only if she could be transported, not whether she needed to be transported), and, most tellingly, a representative from the Intelligence Bureau.

          I thought I was inured to the callousness of the Indian government after the PM said, after a series of terrorist bombings all over India in 2008, that the people must learn to live with terrorism. I still think that takes the cake for the dumbest statement by a government official, but the posturing by all and sundry on this occasion comes a close second.

          Like

        • “But the outlook was hopeless anyway.”
          Thats maybe because you are a doctor. I didn’t know that this was expected outcome…I never thought of it once. I am extremely saddened and feel depressed that I was watching a movie while she passed away…

          Like

          • Rajenmaniar Says:

            Indeed it is deeply saddening. It is hard to fathom what kind of sick animals perpetrate such heinous acts. This is one instance where capital punishment would make sense.

            Like

    • Extremely shocking and disturbing.

      Like

    • deeply depressing..

      Like

  51. My previous comment few days back
    https://satyamshot.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/public-fury-over-new-delhi-gang-rape-sparks-protest-across-india/#comment-202727
    Think that girl was already on assisted ventilation and a degree of respiratory failure n sepsis BEFORE being shifted
    The aftermath (political) would’ve been worse if death was in India..

    Like

    • Whether her demise was inevitable is besides the point, the government looks like a bunch of bumbling idiots by transporting the victim to Singapore in her condition.

      Like

  52. The 23 yr old Braveheart Rape survivor is no more.

    Totally gutted and sad

    RIP !!!

    She symbolises Hope and future

    Like

  53. I am really sorry for using this word in such a sensitive situation but I am using it sexlessly…this woman is a sad publicity b!@#h..

    Why the hell does she have to bring in class warfare here? A woman has died..period!!!How does it matter whether the woman belongs to upper/middle/lower class? Can’t you stop your superficial flowery language for once and use your brain? If you still have it I mean..

    She said the same things when Bombay was attached in 2008..the people who have died at the TAJ are rich and hence do not matter!!! Rushdie lambasted her for bringing in class when lives were lost..they were Indian lives..how much their wallets weighed was not the question..

    Take your booker and shove it up your posterior ..and to hell with pseudo-intelligent sickulars like you…

    I hope you land up in Siberia or the middle-east or where-ever it is that women are treated worse than here…where acid-attacks are a routine rather than rarity…

    Come back alive and let’s talk then…

    http://bcove.me/9i38jx6l

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    • She is a big joke and noone takes her words seriously in India except myabe some in europe and other western countries.

      She looks at everything through colored vision. Another joker is another socialite who asks women not to carry pepper spray or other things and face the music fearlessly. And this socialite herself travels in limousines and never stands at bus stands waiting for a bus, auto or cab. They are two extremes at either end of the spectrum. And this socialite says why to look over one’s shoulders as if taking precautions is a dumb act and ther is protection provided by the government every 10yards. There are not only criminals roaming around but there are psychopaths, drug addicts and opportunists lurking around. Even in some european countries like Italy, Greece and USA(the infamous streets and localities), many exercise caution.

      Because of this horrific incident, every bus driver, every auto and cab driver, every rowdy unkempt looking male(sometimes body language also helps in judging a potential criminal) is being looked upon with fear and doubt. This list includes some policemen too.

      Now mothers will be more strict and rebellious daughters will have more problems. The fallout will cost women dearly in terms of freedom of movement. especially girl students and women workers.

      Prevention is better than cure and so better be safe than sorry, think many worried parents.

      There is a case for more people on the roads like in mumbai. So Sheila Dixit is wrong. More people outsiders or local will ensure some sort of safety than deserted roads. We cannot depend on police everytime and it is the people around us who maybe of help sometimes.

      And lastly, the courts treat offenders too leniently giving them bails which allows rowdies to roam around freely and perpetrate their crimes endlessly. the buck stops here too.

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  54. tonymontana Says:

    Im honestly in tears.

    Rest in peace, girl! This country doesn’t deserve you

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    • So Am I 😥

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      • Before capital punishment, I would like to parade the rapists in open truck around delhi naked. People should see their faces. I also hope that this be the cause of fall of present congress rule and Sonia/Manmohan! The next step the govt will do would be bribe the parents with money and jobs for their two sons!

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        • It is not bribing. It is compensating because they need that money and jobs. Any government has moral duty to do that. By the way did gujarat government compensate riot victims?

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          • nice of you to think of gujarat riots dahling…you remind me of a certain barkha dutt on ndtv
            I don’t mind if they compensate but govt ain’t there to do charity or compensate. They are there to give bribe so that the victims parents don’t become torch bearers of this movement. It would be used to silence them. That is where I am mad/angry/upset at!
            Of course certain sections of media already saying things like how they sold piece of land and jobs for their sons….even at times like this!

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          • If they dont compensate you will shout and if they compensate you will shout. Dont use this unfortunate incident to target particular political parties and particular journalists.

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          • I am the one targetting!!!! Lo!
            You were the one to bring Gujarat riots in this thread!!!!!!

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          • You brought Sonia/Manmohan first.

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          • Sonia is the leader of this nation (albeit behind the rubber stamp PM). Being a woman herself, it took the death of the victim to even say something. In any other nation, the govt. would have press conference and speak to its junta daily if not every few hours. When all of you all, talk about how we shouldn’t use words lightly, change our thought process, change the laws and bring capital punishment…..do spare a little thought that the people we elect in office is accountable. If such things take place and those whom we elected in power to protect us, fail us, then THEY SHOULD LOSE THEIR JOBS! End of story. Next person in line, the next PM, would then be very careful and not mess with such issues. So bringing Sonia/govt is totally just in this thread. Bringing gujarat riots is NOT!

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          • BTW, if compensation is all you care about and not justice or change, then the govt. need to compensate EVERY victim not just this one particular one. The one who recently committed suicide in Punjab too need to be compensated. But govt will take care of only this one victim and therefore in my eyes, it is bribery of sorts to silence the public, the parents and media not out of genuine desire to make changes in policy or amends of any sorts. So in my eyes, giving compensation doesn’t make it OK and forgivable act for lapses in govt to protect its citizens.

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          • Cool it di and sanju
            U both have valid points
            Whilst compensation can’t reverse or truly ‘compensate’ a fraction of what the poor victim has gone though–there are practicalities in life.
            Giving prompt and adequate compensation is the v least the govt can give but it shouldn’t be shouted out from rooftops like this.
            Ps– someone provided a link of the poor girls brothers version–
            It is the most moving and relevant one till now
            Suggest all read that version since it is a first person account and not hear say –& is moving

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  55. Abhishek Bachchan ‏@juniorbachchan

    I have always been a very proud Indian. Today, we should ALL be ashamed. Will it always take an innocents death for a nation to awake?

    Abhishek Bachchan ‏@juniorbachchan

    This is not the country I grew up in as a child, this is not the country I want my daughter to know whilst she grows up!

    UGLYAnurag ‏@ankash1009

    I am ashamed.. And sorry .. And angry…

    Javed Akhtar ‏@Javedakhtarjadu

    She died and not only the govt and the police but the whole society you me and every one is standing in the docks .

    Javed Akhtar ‏@Javedakhtarjadu

    We,the mute spectators of violence towards women at home and at public places Are we also not responsible for what is happening.

    Like

    • Satyam, I don’t usually get in the way of your Abhishek admiration, but I’m sorry, I must do so now. It’s nice for Abhishek to post those fine sentiments now. But a few years ago, when he had just got on Twitter, he tweeted that he was stuck in traffic in Mumbai on his way somewhere, and was frustrated that he was going to be late. Then he added, “But there’s nothing I can do about it. So, as my father says, “If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it”, and I’ll do that.” Yes, this is a paraphrase of his actual tweet, which I can’t exactly recall now, but I do remember the furore that rape remark caused. Many people tweeted him, calling him to task for it. He at first defended it, saying there was nothing wrong with what he said, and later, that “It’s my Twitter account, and I can post whatever I want to.” However, with continuing criticism, he eventually deleted the tweet after a day or two. So it may not be possible to find it in Google Cache, but I can probably find the discussion about this on a Bollywood forum (which is how I became aware of it), if you don’t want to accept my word. I was appalled at his obtuseness at not seeing what was wrong with his comment, and even more appalled that he claimed to be quoting his father.

      So, while I hope that his current tweets show that he has matured a bit since then, I disagree that this is not the country he grew up in as a child, since his own words show that the country was always like this, at least during his lifetime.

      (I’m not trying to pick on Abhishek. Others have said much worse things and stuck to them in greater obstinacy — e.g. Abhijit Mukherjee — but this tweet of his immediately recalled the former one to my mind, and it really rankles. So let us put a positive spin on it and think that with age, marriage, and fatherhood, he has changed his perspective.)

      (The real irony is that that stupid rape remark was one that was bandied about quite freely, as an example of great wit, in the U.S. up till about 1980, when it started losing its cachet. So it’s entirely possible that Abhishek, and his father, too, if his claim is correct, probably saw using that line as being “cool” and “modern.”)

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      • It is a common “idiom” used. I have heard co-workers use it as well with reference to unpleasant job they have to perform (if I am going to get raped, might as well learn to enjoy it). And yes, it is extremely distasteful and should never be used. I don’t think we should equate that statement he made with the reprehensible act of Delhi and its aftermath and current twitter comment. Every sane person has right be outraged and react. Not doing so would be callousness and I feel that every person with some name and fame should use their ‘power’ to express themselves, especially now, in this particular situation.

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        • I see it as the kind of mindless adoption of Americanisms by Indians that I have experienced in plenty. Most of the time, they don’t even understand what the “idiom” means, or its implications. As I said, no one would dare to utter such a comment in public now in the U.S., and it hasn’t been heard for a good 25-30 years. But that’s about the usual time lag with adopting these mores.

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        • More importantly, it’s the frequent uttering of such statements that creates a climate of “acceptance” of rape, which in turn contributes to the kind of incidents that we are all mourning now. When something like this happens, people are bewildered, and keep asking, “How could this happen?” Well, it could happen because of the tacit approval given for acts such as rape in comments like these.

          Even in Bollywood forums, I have seen many times people — almost always male — say things like, “My star’s film will rape your star’s film”, or “My star has raped your star with his BO collections.” Even the “cool” use of the f-word in India, as well as much worse words that are considered totally unacceptable in polite society in the west, come from this kind of ignorance. But this kind of ignorance definitely doesn’t lead to bliss!

          Words have meanings, and their meanings must be understood. It is an old Sanskrit adage that thoughts influence words, but it is equally true that words influence thoughts — otherwise there wouldn’t be so much emphasis on “politically correct” speech. But the point is that the close monitoring and modification of speech has indeed resulted in significant changes of attitude in places such as the U.S. over the last few decades. So when people are wringing their hands over this case, crying, “What I can do to change things?” it is worth remembering that a close attention to what you say can have profound and enormous impact, and it is something which everyone can do. All it takes is thought, which, for some, maybe harder to come by than standing at night holding a candle, or facing police water cannons. But the effort does produce long lasting results.

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          • Not to forget that balatkari joke in 3 Idiots.

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          • Aap gade murdey ukhad rahe hai. Anyways. I think at this very minute we should focus on victim, the criminals and not on Abhishek’s comment made one decade ago on something else. If you want to be outraged over comments then how about Barkha Dutt and her “lumpens” comment or “dented and painted” on and on….however IMHO, we should try to still focus on the issue here…pass a law for severe punishment (capital punishment) for rapists, making streets and public transportations safer (maybe have cameras installed in all buses that have license to run on road for business by law), police need to register case and not harass the victim…there should be hotline and places in hospital where they could check the victim (not stupid thing like 2 finger tests) properly etc etc.

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          • lol at being offensive his is the common lingo i when you are watching sports or at workplace a common search on google indicate many blogs on the same

            btw this what day before yesterday a senior female scientist said that could have saved nirbhaya and so did nirbhaya and that means

            outrageoshttp://www.indianexpress.com/news/outrage–woman-scientist-says-girls-intestine-would-have-been-intact-if-she-didnt-resist-rape/1051165/

            rathet than being political correct fact of the matter that could have saved girls life

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          • What a sick, twisted thing to say! Nothing that a woman does can ‘provoke’ six men into discaridng a woman nude ont he roadside after tearing out her intenstines with an iron rod and gang-raping her. I don’t see what the fact that a so-called ‘scientist’ said this has to do with anything- this is not a chemical reaction where the scientist can predict what catlaysized the reaction! This is an act of unbeleivable cruelty that defies all logic and science.

            This ‘scientist’ was rightly crictized harshly for her perverse remarks and it takes a special kind of callous misogynist to actually support her statement and blame the victim in the face of such inhumane brutality.

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          • From the article:

            “Had the girl simply surrendered (and not resisted) when surrounded by six men, she would not have lost her intestine.”

            Yes, how incredibly unreasonable and idiotic of the girl to resist whilst being gang-raped. Clearly, what she should have done in such an unspeakably horrifying situation is to assess her chances of survival in a calm and scientific way and stop herself from reacting in an instinctive, terrified manner!

            Anyway, how on earth can any scientist or doctor claim to accurately predict what ‘provoked’ the men and how they would react in an alternative scenario where the victim had not resisted? It’s not like this woman was an eye-witness at the event and was able to read the minds of these 6 disgusting animals!

            Like I said earlier the behaviour of these beasts defies all logical prediction and scientific reasoning and it’s utterly despicable for somebody to say that just because a ‘female scientist’ said this vile nonsense, it is a ‘fact’ that the victim could have saved her life.

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          • when you are being surrounded by six people and left with no other option its better to surrender rather than fight with 6 goons who are heavily drunk and carrying weapons …..guys did the heroism part and girl later that only infuriated the rage as these where not some educated morons having a settled life….certain things are good to write but in real and in practicality things do same way

            the intestine part came because the uneducated morons did it on rage and heavy influence of alchol…these morons in anger are bound to do extreme

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          • again delhi government horribly gone wrong on drinking alchol and driving part ….the cops who where there to check in start with the mnouth testing and all evaporated and ya most of the guys do that in night and look for an easy picking or commit road accidents and such things are more evident in case of private bus operators

            aamir’ khan’s talaash had shown it to certain extent on night life indeed in recent time

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          • So what you are saying is that every single woman should view every single man as a potential rapist and never, ever disagree or do anything to displease him in case she somehow ends up ‘provoking’ him? That women should live in constant terror of being raped and brutalized by any stranger in any public place and accordingly ensure that they are completely mute and submissive in order to avoid provoking any attack?

            What did the victim do anyway? We have absolutely no idea of knowing for sure what happened, who reacted how to what provocation. The criminals are naturally going to try and find some ‘excuse’ for their behaviour, but the truth is that NOTHING can provoke six men to mutilate and torture a woman the way these brutes did, except for their own ammorality and perversity. Nobody would ever think a fellow human capable of such sick violence- the Delhi doctor himself said that he had never seen any such thing in the 30 years of career- and he’s a doctor in a Dehi government hospital, where doubtlessly plenty of victims of rape and other forms of abuse must have been admitted earlier.

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          • on net one can easily write heavy political correct write up’s but in real world when problem srike its only who have to save yourself with your intelligence and tactness and if require a certain diplomacy to …

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          • She was in a bus with 6 vile, inhuman beasts- the ony reason they were roaming around in a private bus and pretending that it was a public bus was so that they could indulge in these sick activities unchecked- NOTHING she could have done would have saved her.

            Again, I’m staggered at the sheer misogyny and inhumane amount of insensitivity needed to indulge in victim blaming in a case as needlessly brutal and horrific as this!

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          • simply tend to avoid this but in context of situation:

            the guy who is to be blamed can spend six hundread bucks on a multiplex show and afterwards can’t carry the girl in even auto or cab knowing the situation in delhi in late night shows lack of responsibility

            carrying a white line bus in delhi at late night with only fe
            w passengers who are heavily drunk makes no sense at all and similarly having surrounded by mom and showing heroism what one makes ideal let it be

            feel pity for the girl…. had a great career and life ahead

            may her soul rest in peace

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          • Oh, great- now we’re not just blaming the victim but her male friend as well. This is the same man who risked his life trying to protect the girl and was assaulted as well- whilst in many other rape cases in India, men have just stood by helplessly and watched or even run away. How on earth is this the man’s fault? How hard is to understand the only people at fault are the criminals who committed the crime?

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          • yeah, we are learning a lot of truths about a lot of people that post on this blog simply by their responses in this thread. i

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          • this is not blame but the harsh reality and anyone is free to interpret what one has to but it makes perfect sense to anyone who is aware of ground reality

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          • yes. ground reality. that govt. and police machinery is ineffective. that men will be men and rape at will. and that the only way women can be safe is by hiding inside their homes. what about laborer women who work outside and cannot afford cabs or autos? well, they should just suck it up and not put up a fight while they are being raped to avoid damage to their internal organs. yes, you are just laying out the facts and should be commended for your common sense.

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          • but again thats the rant ….things will be changed only with strict law and its implementation on ground

            a labourer exploited easily because she don’t had the voice or ecobnomic status…things will go on untill you won’t empower her

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          • Ami and Antya, u guys are absolutely correct in your arguements but there is no need to get heated up and make such harsh and sarcastic comments on someone like Rockstar who usually makes sensible comments. C’mon both of you, unlike others, are matured enough to see things in contexts.

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      • SM, I’ve never heard of any such thing but after reading what you wrote here I did a quick google search and this mention showed up in the post of one blogger who said he said it, then apologized for it and took the tweet down. But there is no mention of this anywhere else. And given this is a media otherwise quite happy to jump on his case I’m surprised this wasn’t more widely reported and that too in an age when every other tweet of his (and others) is instantly picked up. Unless you have been following his twitter feed and saw the remark in real time! In any case I have my doubts about what he actually said if at all but if so this is indeed the most reprehensible kind of humor. And yes I do know about the related US contexts. Will say as a larger matter that it’s rather unfair to connect humor, no matter how reprehensible or even disgusting, with the aftermath of such an event.

        Indeed people do worse things. Some have been accused from time to time of beating up their girlfriends! And this is not the only example of their ‘bad’ behavior. But you ignore all of this using the argument that there’s no ‘evidence’. Isn’t this far more relevant when it comes to brutalization of women than a joke in extremely poor taste? Or else is one going to use arguments for ‘evidence’ by virtue of which the Holocaust couldn’t be pinned to Hitler?

        I’m not defending Abhishek here. I put up his quote along with those of Kashyap and Javed Akhtar. His wasn’t the only one. I just put up tweets for the Bollywood figures I follow. I don’t follow everyone. Only a handful. and again if he did engage in that humor it’s inexcusable. I however question your highlighting of the same in the aftermath of such a massive example of brutality. Yes there are ways of thinking in society that are objectionable and part of the problem. But one cannot simply pick out one or two examples and then attach caveats to these! Nor am I engaging in a tit for tat here. But the obvious sometimes has to be pointed out. Your example even with my disagreements would carry far greater force if you didn’t otherwise dismiss every charge against Salman on grounds of ‘lack of evidence’. All of this doesn’t change that such humor is terrible. But contexts are important. His and yours.

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        • I’m sorry to see this turn into yet another star wars, or fan wars type of discussion. But perhaps not surprised.

          In any case, as my subsequent posts would have made clear, I was commenting on the overall atmosphere that makes such comments acceptable, and that then lead to the general undervaluing and disrespect of women, which in turn lead to these kinds of incidents. That is why I gave the example of fans using the word “rape” to show the greater box office prowess of their favorite star.

          I am not questioning Abhishek’s sincerity in his present comments. I am pointing out that the fact that he can be sincerely outraged now, but clueless in the past, points to the way people in general don’t see the connection between casual remarks and their larger implication. It’s because he said this wasn’t the country he grew up in that I was reminded of the earlier remark.

          As I thought I took pains to point out, I was not finding fault with him, but expressing my astonishment that someone with a wide exposure to the world as he has had (more so than the average office worker in India, say), would still fall into this trap of thinking. If you like, feel free to delete the entire comment.

          I don’t see why you bring up Salman here, unless it is a reflexive action to think you will somehow hurt me or invalidate my point by saying something negative about someone I like. Whether one believes he was physically abusive to Aishwarya or not is irrelevant here — the only relevance can be if you are challenging the veracity of my statement that Abhishek made that tweet. Very well, for that purpose, I will try to hunt out that discussion on the other forum, but I cannot do so till much later tonight, probably till the early hours of tomorrow morning. Otherwise, the only reason to bring in Salman would be if he had made a joke about slapping women at an earlier time, and later expressed outrage about women being slapped.

          Even if you believe that Abhishek never tweeted that “joke”, the larger point still stands, that such jokes are commonly made by many, without realizing how it contributes to the overall societal ethos. For example, Sanjana brought up the balatkar joke in 3 Idiots, which I greatly disliked when I saw the film, for precisely this reason.

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          • OK, it wasn’t that hard to find, after all. At least one discussion. I think I might have seen it at another forum, too, but that is now defunct, and is much harder to track.

            http://www.bollywhat-forum.com/index.php?topic=25960.msg420171#msg420171

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          • My argument wasn’t primarily about veracity. Of course this doesn’t necessarily meet your standards of evidence but leaving this aside I accept he made the joke, I have already commented on this earlier.

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          • In THIS scenario, I will have to support Satyam & abhiskrek !
            Poor abhiskrek didn’t mean it that way and as Satyam said-there’s a context.
            His “sitting back when raped an enjoyin it” comment IS sometimes used at workplace (as di mentioned) not (always) literally!

            Ps: on a related note–Salman HAS a history of beating girl friends be it ash or Katrina or somy ali.
            As folks have seen–I have taken on Satyam and proved how Salman deserves to be credited with no1 tag
            But ESP in the context of this incident –it is essential that Salman fans like sm publically acknowledge and diss Salman for hi girlfriend abuse

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          • Do read the following comments from the link that I quoted — the discussion went on into most of the next page, too.

            @Alex — I don’t want to get off track here, but only Aishwarya has claimed that she was abused by Salman. All his other girlfriends, Sangeeta Bijalani, Somy Ali, Katrina, have denied many times that he has ever abused them — many times, because the media kept bringing the issue up many times. But you can do your own Googling on this one. Just be sure to do it thoroughly and not stop with the first few hits that give you the media rumor, and not go on to the refutations. But if you’d rather believe that he’s an abuser, that’s fine with me. As Satyam said recently in another thread, I, too, have realized that most people who post here already have their minds made up on any given issue, and there is no meaningful discussion in the sense that anyone is willing to change their previously held position when presented with new information, and many do post according to their particular agenda. So this will be my last comment on this issue.

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          • don’t think Aishwarya has actually claimed this either though I might have missed that interview.

            SM, don’t you wonder why these stories keep popping up with respect to Salman and not any other star. The same goes for running down people on a sidewalk or shooting blackbucks. I know the media indulges in a lot of salacious gossip but they don’t say this kind of stuff about stars. And haven’t you seen all those Law and order episodes where a lot of ‘victims’ end up denying a lot of stuff?

            But again I concede there isn’t completely clear evidence here. However there is also no document bearing Hitler’s signature ordering the Holocaust.

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          • SM- I generally find your comments on SS to be very articulate and intelligent but your comment that Salman should only be brought up if the issue is that of slapping women is rather bewildering- the issue is that of violence and disrespect owards women, in all it’s forms, from physical abuse to rape to casual sexism. I don’t think that all of this protest and outrage is over the isolated issue of gangrapes alone- it’s over the general sexism and abuse perpetuated against women! The dialogue, both here on SS and on a national level, is on how to tackle the many problems of our deeply patriarchal society, of which rape is only one.

            I’m not condoning what Abhishek said- it was indeed very poor humour. But seeing that you yourself have made several extremely intelligent and incisive comments criticizing sexism, and that you’ve accused Abhishek of hypocrisy, one must now wonder at your own refusal to address the enormous amount of sexism that one of your favourite stars indulges in- including the the casual, everyday sexism of which there is ample proof/ evidence in terms of the kinds of comments Salman has made in interviews and on TV (many of which are as bad as Abhishek’s rape ‘joke’)- for example, just a few days ago Munna posted a video that had Salman making disrespectful comments to Bipasha on Big Boss. IMO this is even worse than Abhishek’s rape ‘joke’ since it targets a woman personally, and uses seuxal innuendo to publically embarass her in a bid to amuse a nation-wide audience.

            There was another interview on Farah Khan’s show a few years ago, where he insisted that he likes women who are well covered and criticized the trend of dresses getting shorter and lower- a supreme example of seixst hypocrisy if there ever was one, considering that one of the selling points of most of his films is the use of scantily clad item girls.

            So, it’s certainly not that there isn’t any evidence of Salman’s sexism, or that the only issue here is rape, and nothing else should be brought into the discussion.

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          • lucid comment Ami..

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          • good apt comment there, amy
            So this also ‘proves’ amy & sm are different persons 🙂

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          • SM, there are Sardarji jokes very common in India. This is a classic example of ethnic stereotyping. Does this mean that everyone who jokes in this way is somehow responsible for the anti-Sikh pogroms of ’84?

            And it’s not about star wars for me either or your veracity (I already conceded it was reprehensible if true) but contexts are important. Couldn’t one say that the reason so many women are abused in India in all sorts of ways is that when celebrities like Salman engage in it his fans (including female ones) say there’s no evidence! And this when the stories keep cropping up with more than one girlfriend. The same logic holds when he runs down people over sidewalks doing drunk driving or shooting endangered species and so on. If one has such an attitude where Salman is involved but is otherwise indignant that Abhishek could have engaged in such a joke (let’s accept his indulged in it and let’s say it was in very poor taste and/or reprehensible) isn’t this a bit odd? Odder still when you’re commenting on the overall ethos and what not but still not willing to consider these Salman episodes as examples?

            And again my larger objection is the link you make between that joke and his current tweets. It’s useless to say one does intend to question his sincerity or that one does not intend any serious link between such a joke and that awful episode after one has already introduced it as ‘evidence’ in a comment! I did not say that in a country where people like Salman beat up their girlfriends these things are likely to happen. I find what he did reprehensible (and he wasn’t just talking about it) but I would never connect him with this sort of episode.

            Now is there a philosophical point to be made about the treatment of women in India and/or the discourses that lead to such brutalization? Sure! But that argument cannot come about in this fashion.

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          • Searching web, it seems ABJr did tweet those comments in context of traffic jam.

            Today Anil was on BB6 and @33.20

            at end Salman alluded to incidence and appealed to people to show respect to women.

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        • I do definitely remember seeing that tweet by Abhishek and also remember being quite disgusted by it. He did get quite a bit of slack for that on his timeline and only then I realized that AB Senior had also had something like that, which made it even worse for me. I think sm has quoted it fairly accurately from what I recall of it. Even I wondered why it was not reported widely in the media or even Bachchan’s quote given such things do keep coming back at you. Perhaps, it is as sm points a part of “climate of acceptance.”

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        • Could you please check your mail Satyam

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      • for the record feel free to get between me and my Abhishek admiration. I hardly have a problem with people not liking him. My arguments are usually about the terms of the debate. Otherwise one has every right to dislike him in every possible way!

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        • I sometimes have problem with ab junior’s acting or movie choices but never him as a person…he is very well behaved, perfect gentleman…no issues with his conduct in public life. Salman is another story. If I was Sallu’s mom, my head would have hanged in shame!! Ash has said how he harrassed her and threatened/pushed her even AFTER breakup and she was kicked out of SRK movie because Sallu came on sets harrassing her etc etc. Then there were taped conversations where he threatened her with his underworld connections… I cannot believe how some fans can be so blind to sallu’s ‘antics’. I was watching salman/kat interview and S’s behavior was borderline abnormal (someone who is not mentally healthy). It is one thing to have anger issues and another thing to ‘behave’ badly that too, so openly in public!!

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  56. To give poor abhishrek some credit–there were ‘rumours’ atleast from his early marriage to ash that he has to procure written permission from ash beforehand to even touch her forget other pursuits–perhaps it’s still in place
    Besides abhishrek has been well behaved in general atleast in public
    In comparison–Salmans got a long history of serial girlfriend beating –well known and documented

    And to ‘defend’ this sort of behaviour–I’ve seen some guys proclaiming their ‘possessiveness’
    Hmmm…

    Anyhow –one of the steps being proposed to tackle this issue in India–ban skirts !!!! I mean….

    A BJP legislator in Rajasthan wants the state government to prohibit private schools from making girls wear skirts as uniform, citing it as the reason behind increased cases of sexual harassment.

    Banwari Lal Singhal, in his letter to the chief secretary, demanded that girl

    students be made to wear salwar suits or shirts and trousers as uniform to reduce chances of their being subjected to lewd comments or harassment.
    Singhal is a Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) legislator from Alwar city constituency, around 150km from Jaipur.

    “Girls either walk to school or wait for school buses at various points in Alwar. That is when they face lewd comments from mischievous elements,” Singhal said.

    He argued that most private schools in the city had skirts as part of the uniform.

    “It should be prohibited keeping in view the rise of social crimes against women. The school should have pant-shirts or salwar suits as uniforms for girl students,” Singhal said in the letter.

    He said the proposed school uniform would save the students from extreme weather conditions too.

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-news/Rajasthan/Ban-skirts-as-school-uniform-BJP-legislator/Article1-982296.aspx

    Like

  57. I don’t mind ‘possessiveness’ etc but showing your bravado on poor girls isn’t done!! Try out the punches on someone your own gender

    Like

  58. Hypocrites defending a star known to abuse women and who hides behind his fake charity – Being Human. A real human being would admit his crimes (beating women, murder, killing endangered animals, etc.). Instead the steriod filled coward always blames a member of his entourage for his wrong doings. But of course, he loves his mother and sisters.

    Only idoirs do not see his macho posturing for what it really is.

    Like

    • Agree Tyler
      Beating ash/ Katrina wasn’t done!!
      Time Salman gets taken to task for it

      Like

      • This not about my ‘supporting’ poor abhiskrek and Satyam here!
        There’s no comparison in the behaviour of abhiskrek & Salman
        Yeah–all guys (including myself) do have to look within and tackle this bravado/possessiveness etc!
        And Salman fans like sm need to admit his abusive behaviour –(must say he lately seems to have mellowed down seemingly though– but it took close to 50 years! Lol)

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    • But Tyler I am sure there is no need to call his fans hypocrites or idiots. Not trying to attack you at all but just found the comment a bit troubling

      Do agree that Abhishek has ALWAYS shown impeccable behaviour. And of course The Great One hardly needs to be mentioned. On Salman his behaviour and etiquette leaves much to be desired

      Like

  59. “The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but those who watch them without doing anything” Albert Einstein

    Like

  60. What Abhishek said on that twit is probably politically incorrect but it is commonly used. And, in current climate sounds more insensitive. But, hardly is a great crime. And, certainly Salman fans sound hypocritical if they want to go after Abhishek for saying that.

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  61. btw what abhishrek ‘joked’ about IS sometimes said esp at the workplace—ive heard guys even some female colleagues saying that (as a joke) but yeah–i can understand it can be offensive to some!

    As for salman–as i mentioned earlier, there is NO justification for salmans beating/ abuse of his girlfriends
    It is simply unacceotable, period
    And has nothin to do with my soft corner for ash, kat lol

    btw salman has been some what misunderstood as well. He has a kiddish ‘possessiveness’ and sometimes I can see what hes upto 🙂
    note this episode where salman makes poor katrina uncomfortable–which is not good but worse on national telly
    BUT katrina handles him well–and btw hes actually a somewhat jealous possessive soul here–when that gets violent, it crosses the line–time for sm to accept this 🙂
    btw note 3.20 onwards–somewhat cute stuff–i didnt mind it but some may not like it

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    • Alex, why on earth are you trying to make abuse of women look ‘cute’? First you insist that there is no justification for Salman’s behaviour, then you contradict yourelf by casting him in the role of a misunderstood kid! If he has indeed abused Aishwarya and Katrina as has been alleged, there is NOTHING that is cute or child-like about it, it’s criminal and cruel, plain and simple. This sort of trivilization of abuse is appalling.

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      • Amy–i have said that the physical/violent abuse/ beating etc is NOT justified and has NO place–plz scroll up and see that i was the FIRST to make the point
        As for the ‘misunderstood kid’ bit–its only where he is behaving like a ‘possessive jealous kid’ but when it becomes physical it crosses the line
        also humilaiting the ‘girlfriend’ in public in the name of ‘jokes’ as in bipashas case or in some parts with katrina is not done!
        U have to understand the male psyche to know the difference of what im saying….lol

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        • Possessiveness is not a uniquely male trait- most human beings are possessive of their partners to a certain degree. However (hopefully) most human beings are also capable of keeping these feelings in check and not using them as an excuse to indulge in violence. But when somebody is said to have been abusive in multiple relationships, then their possessive/ jealous behaviour stops being ‘cute’ and starts becoming disturbing.

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          • agree amy and thats what exactly im saying–if u read carefully.

            btw amy–note that inspite of ALL of us agreeing about it and inspite of their being ample reports about it, sm(inspite of being a female) still refuses to say a word against salmans patheitc girlfriend abuse and violence.
            I wont force sm anymore—anyhow THIS is ‘true love’ and ‘devotion’ –similar to the oldgold-srk variety 🙂

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  62. It isn’t only rape that is the problem; sexual harassment of the casual, everyday variety that almost every Indian woman has experienced, also needs to be punished.

    BTW- what do all of you think the *appropriate and realistic* reaction to a woman being sexually harassed on a bus/ train is? I simply do not think that the police will take complaints of a woman being groped etc seriously, seeing how they are so dismissive of far more serious crimes like rape.

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  63. “woman being groped etc seriously, seeing how they are so dismissive of far more serious crimes like rape”–hmm thats a valid and pertinent point raised by amy
    Think that ‘groping in buses etc) virtually non-existent in the west as far as i know (unless consensual)–and sounds its a problem only in some parts of india
    Whats your experience folks…

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  64. a big heartbreak but the question remain atleast there has been reasonable voice to change laws ….facebook and twitter crowd flogging india gate will forget and move on but again its the intelligentsia which have to brought pressure

    for most of these crime offenders these protest don’t count but a strong law will deter and that should be applicable to both genders and most of the females in the past have used the strong female law to harasss the males to

    as for nirbhaya case strong punishment is the need of the hour and if it require amendment of law let it be as a future rapists will not be afraid by protest but a strong law and the fast resolution of rape case

    a decade ago there was one movie called damini which touched the phyche of such things wonderfully

    Like

  65. delhi is the city which consists of close to swenty percent of migrants and some of them don’t have proper identification attached to them or lives in underbelly which is to hide and are unacessible and sex for them is just another source of entertainment … a classic case in case of most of lower strata of accused …these morons got caught only only when they dared to dump the girl that to near airport and have the audacity to came back to work later not fearing law

    in case of others its simple easy acessibility of porn and decling delhi culture which is evident in strong cases of mms and ever increasing teen pregnancy that to even in schools in eye opener which is highest in country

    eroding mortal value and joint family culture has played his part

    Like

  66. A 14 year old girl attempts suicide in Gujarat after being raped by 2 men-

    http://m.ibnlive.com/news/gujarat-gangraped-by-two-minor-attempts-suicide/313012-3.html

    In less depressing news, Kiran Bedi tweeted this:

    “I have offered to be an honorary trainer for Delhi Police, officers in particular, in crime prevention…I guarantee scene will change in 90 days”

    I really hope they give her the post!

    Like

    • She can be a permanent trainer. And the victims two brothers can be recruited to the police force if they are willing and they will definitely help atleast some women in distress.

      Like

  67. was wondering with heavy news on delhi and modi’s swearing in how media have left gujarat

    kiran bedi used the dande force and strict vigilance while she was in charge and no wonder things where in control

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  68. the most honest, practical and touching thing i’ve read about the incident so far
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sandip-roy/what-one-23-year-old-gang_b_2379655.html

    Like

  69. i just read this link posted initially by bliss
    i havent got the courage to read any more beyond this.. http://m.indianexpress.com/news/%22-it-s-like-the-life-we-had-never-existed…-every-day-now-passes-in-a-flash-%22/1049876/
    ps–rockstar–u have a point about being ‘diplomatic’ and ‘tactful”
    but as amy, anya are pointing out—this doesnt work when dealing with six mad psychos hellbent on creating havoc..
    theres simply no comparison
    ps2–im just wondering y cant some CCTV cameras in all buses be made compulsory—yeah it is expenditure but atleast can be done in your capital city!!
    also make dark tinted glasses compulsory
    ps3–uncanny to read that poor girl came back after watchgni life of pi–i watched it with a few folks yesterday nite—they didnt have any issues–they went clubbing afterwards late into the nite….

    Like

  70. courtesy bliss–this is the link-really -moving
    http://bit.ly/12LJKnE

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  71. alex : delhi has more cctv than any other cities its the capital with most terrorist threats but things didn’t stopped ….ya lately they did have crack down on black glasses and empowering everything with cctvn especially private buses

    with so much influx of migrants and lax law it will go on for look and this will go on …for record a heavily drunk driver is driving and do things on cente tel.ls the story and whole rage

    Like

  72. hmmm btw the ‘boyfriend’ with the poor girl was indeed brave and creditable that he put up a fight(though ended up beaten up).
    But unless he was a ‘foreigner’, he should have known the ground reality and perhaps not taken the bus@ that odd time!
    this is NOT to blame him though but u cant suddenly behave in delhi as if u are in europe or other safe parts..
    but all this talk of the girl ‘submitting herself’ is crap–she did what any human would have done

    Like

  73. Couldn’t help myself from posting. This event has been so shocking and unnerving. Tears well into my eyes thinking about the plight of this young girl whose life was bitterly torn into shreds and her existence denied without any fault of hers. The poor girl had every right to live, breathe and enjoy her life and future but alas she has been denied all that she deserved. I am aghast to see how barbaric our society has become and the perversity that prevails when it comes to the female sex. One always knew that Delhi is an unsafe city for women but this is pure brutality. Oh why on earth did they board a bus at night. Anybody with a reasonable common sense should know how unsafe public transportation could be at night especially if it is not even a DTC bus.
    That this event could be the ultimate eye opener for the young India, and people with voice and power remains to be seen. I truly hope it is as a revolution and change is needed not at just the level of authorities but in one’s own personal thinking, family values and lifestyle. That some parts of India are much more regressive than others will make this change even more difficult to implement but the metamorphosis has to happen – a social and cultural revolution. An attack on a woman’s dignity is an attack on the rest of women kind. This is just one aspect of the complexities that our society faces. There is just a complete lack of respect for the female gender which easily leads parents to commit female infanticide. This is the same land where female goddesses are worshiped and yet the same land where a woman’s dignity can be trampled over publicly and all you will face is a spineless lot who will watch the tamasha and do nothing.
    It is important that people in responsible positions should set the right example. Since Bollywood plays such a pivotal role in the lives of millions of young men and women, it is important to take socially responsible projects and not merely show women as dancing and sex objects. The complete deterioration of standards of films, excessive and lewd scenes and comments just all adds up. I may be taking an extreme stance but I feel that we cannot sit and blame the government. Everyone contributes to the system – the middle class, the elite, celebrities, onlookers, politicians, media and the young voices of India. The most refreshing of the lot has been the young voices of India who have shown the commitment and sincerity to bring about social changes and revolution every time we have faced diabolical situations.
    Too sad at the futility of this poor girl’s life. May god rest her soul in peace

    Like

    • hopefully it does as anything big coming from mumbai or delhi automatically garners big attentiion…

      why people are dependent on bollywood its a reel life …they haven’t made a proper movie on even jessica whose title was lifted from classic headline when it came first in media

      http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2006-02-22/delhi/27816891_1_jessica-lal-murder-tamarind-court-bina-ram

      damini is one movie big depicted the stigma of such thing beautifully

      girl being a physiotherapy student and guy an engineering graduate where educated and had great career ahead and in the end sufferers are their family and loved one’s only ….

      there is constant anger and disdain but it should sustain for anything to change

      Like

  74. thats such a moving heartfelt post, julie
    “Oh why on earth did they board a bus at night. Anybody with a reasonable common sense should know how unsafe public transportation could be at night especially if it is not even a DTC bus.”–even i thought the same thing but dont know the ground situation
    Yes-may god rest her soul in peace

    Like

  75. Jaya Bachchan has given heartfelt, moving tribute..I cried with her listening to her tribute. I am unable to paste link…maybe someone will.

    Like

  76. http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283466

    Bollywood lyrics

    The recent anti-rape protests in Delhi are a good enough reason to introspect on the prevalent mindset around women. Films and music play a very important role in shaping this mindset. It is in this context that I read the news item today that along with Salman Khan and Katrina Kaif, Yo Yo Honey Singh was the most searched name online in 2012.

    Best known for his song Angrezi Beat Te from Cocktail, Yo Yo Honey Singh has come a long way from being a mere rapper to become one of India’s biggest musical acts. Yo Yo Honey Singh has also been lauded as a Youth Icon on a public platform as seen from this video. But what’s still hidden from a majority of people is just how morally depraved the lyrics of some of his earlier songs are. One of his biggest hits is a song called Ch**t Vol. 1 (Vagina Vol. 1) which has over a million hits on YouTube. Hearing a few lines from this song was enough to make me sick but I braved myself to have a look at the lyrics in order to try and understand just how anyone could allow, and, in some cases, even justify their association with a mind that came out with such depraved and misogynist lyrics, but couldn’t come up with an answer. The lyrics are far too degenerate to even repeat here but can be freely accessed on the Internet.

    Many still don’t know of Yo Yo Honey Singh’s songs like Ch**t Vol. 1 and his official website doesn’t even mention it. It’s not like Honey Singh is an overnight sensation. Ch**t Vol. 1 was released in 2009 and was his breakthrough song. His association with the likes of Akshay Kumar (Khiladi 786), Amit Trivedi & Anurag Kashyap (Luv Shuv Tey Chicken Khurana), Himesh Reshamiya (Son of Sardaar) and Pritam & Saif Ali Khan (Cocktail) not only increases his popularity but also gives him a mainstream approval of sorts. Rather than being taken to task for such lyrics, Honey Singh has comfortably seeped into the Bollywood mainstream.

    According to some sources, producer Sunil Bohra, who produced Honey Singh’s latest video Satan, has made him Bollywood’s highest paid singer by giving him Rs. 70 lacs for a single song in an upcoming film called Mastaan that reportedly features Naseeruddin Shah. Perhaps it is free speech that allows someone who came up with lyrics such as Ch***ey key baad tujhe jutey maroon (Beat you with my shoe after I f**k you) to get away with it.

    What kind of society have we become that it is okay to allow such misogyny? Surely artists who portray women in such terms also need to be held responsible and taken to task?

    One can’t undermine the power and social impact of cinema and music, especially Bollywood. Films and songs are such an intrinsic part of our being that many of us would readily remember popular releases of years gone. Songs, too, have played a vital role in the Indian psyche to an extent where we can’t look at them as plain entertainment as they evoke emotions ranging from patriotism to devotion. To date whenever Aye Mere Watan Ke Logo plays, it instils a sense of oneness with the nation irrespective of who hears it and where. Half a century later, the song continues to move us.

    A nation’s strength can be keenly adjudged by the status the women enjoy in that country. Would it be too much to ask of filmmakers or the film industry to be an active participant in a society that is screaming for reforms when it comes to women? Filmmakers and artistes apart, each one of us has to consciously make a choice to not promote such songs, people or anything else that might promote the perception of women in a derogatory way.

    Like

    • >>Surely artists who portray women in such terms also need to be held responsible and taken to task?

      Wonderful argument. Here are some songs by Cannibal Corpse, let’s see what you think of them

      1. Entrails Ripped from a Virgin’s C***

      2. F***ed with a Knife

      3. Stripped, Raped and Strangled

      4. Addicted to Vaginal Skin

      5. Priests of Sodom

      A comment by one of the readers.

      Like

      • Brilliant point there sanjana
        And I agree –can’t believe that this guy yoyo honey has an actual song/album of this name–haven’t heard of it earlier !
        Btw on first glance–your post above reminded me of miss anjali Singh …ESP about the songs by ‘cannibal corpse’

        Like

  77. Bollywood and tv cant escape because for many, films and tv are the only entertainment and they think that if heroines and item girls can be so provocative. so are the other girls. Even Shabana azmi asked the heroines not to go overboard while trying to be sensual.
    Afterall, there is an animal in many a male and the beast has to be dealt with with more than one weapon.
    Our society is not liberated enough like west and those norms cant be applied here blindly.

    Like

  78. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/last-rites-of-delhi-braveheart-performed-in-extreme-secrecy/313038-3-244.html

    New Delhi: Amid outpouring of anger and grief in the country, the body of the 23-year-old Delhi braveheart was flown here from Singapore early Sunday morning and cremated within hours. The mortal remains were flown to the national capital in a Special Aircraft of Air India and after landing at IGI airport, the plane was taken to its technical area where Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Congress chief Sonia Gandhi were present to receive the body. Both Singh and Gandhi spoke to the family members and consoled them.

    The body was then laid to rest in the national capital amid heavy deployment of Delhi Police and RAF personnel. The last rites were performed under a dense cover of fog. Delhi Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit, Minister of State for Home Affairs RPN Singh, West Delhi MP Mahabal Mishra, Delhi BJP chief Vijender Gupta were also attended the last rites.

    Media was not allowed at the site. A special aircraft of Air India carrying the mortal remains of the victim, who died in Mount Elizebeth hospital on Saturday morning, landed at IGI airport here at around 3.30 am. The girl, a physiotherapy student, was gangraped and brutally assaulted by six men in a moving bus in south Delhi on December 16 night.

    Like

  79. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/punjab-gangrapesuicide-case-dismissed-police-officer-arrested/313033-3-241.html

    The Punjab Police on Saturday arrested its dismissed police officer for his role in the abetment to suicide of a teenaged rape victim of Patiala district. Assistant sub-inspector (ASI) Nasib Singh, who was in-charge of the police station of Badshahpur village, where the victim committed suicide on Wednesday evening, was arrested during special checking by the police.

    The ASI was dismissed from service on Thursday and later booked for abetment to suicide of the victim. The girl, 18, who was allegedly gangraped by three men in November in Patiala district, committed suicide in her village, 100 km from Chandigarh, by consuming poison after local police officers not only refused to register a case but also humiliated her by calling her to the police station repeatedly and asking uncomfortable questions.

    In her suicide note, the girl mentioned her harassment by police and the fact that she was being pressurised allegedly by them to compromise with the rapists. She alleged that she was also being threatened by the rapists who were roaming around freely.

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  80. As DJ said protests should not die down and it should continue to bring culprits to book to whatever influence they wield with the police and political class.
    Women like Kiran Bedi must lead.

    Like

  81. So SRK tweets that he is so sorry that he is a man- what kind of idiotic statement is this? It would have been more fitting if he tweeted that he is so sorry that he made a children’s movie that portrayed women in the sleaziest way possible, but I guess that it’s easier to make dramatic and meaningless statements like ‘I am so sorry to be a man’ than to actually introspect.

    It’s sad the way all these Bollywood clowns are using this incident to make themselves look good. Salman appealing to men to respect women on the same TV show where he was embarassing a woman on the previous episode is especially ironic.

    Like

    • Who knows, he might actually be sorry to be a man.

      Like

      • I find this statement very problematic: first, it implies that all men are responsible for, or capable of, violence against women, which is obviously not true. The problem we have in India is of a society and a culture that devalues and disrespects women in every way possible. This patriarchal society is propagated not just by men, but by women as well: from the common woman who worships her son and treats her daughter as a second-class citizen to the powerful, privileged female politicians who indulge in blaming and shaming rape victims instead of arresting the rapists. Turning this into a men vs. women war is not going to help anybody, the problem here is of patriarchy vs. gender equality, and women are just as guilty as men for enabling patriarchy.

        Second, what is he even trying to say? That he is sorry to be a man, and that he would rather be a woman? That he’d rather be a woman in Bollywood today, where he’d be delgated to playing mother roles instead of earning crores of rupees for ‘romancing’ girls his daughter’s age, as he is able to do as a man? He leads an enormously privileged life and this privilege is dependant on him being a man, so please spare me these empty statements.

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        • Brilliantly said Ami. This is exactly the kind of discussion which should be had regarding this issue

          Like

        • What you said makes sense, but here’s what you missed. In a situation like this, when the human inside even the coldest of people, wakes for one tiny second, it tries to get some emotion out of them. In such a situation, people can feel or say things, which do not require philosophical or factual support. By saying he’s sorry to be a man, he’s not trying to answer any question to who’s guilty and who’s not nor is he trying to create a man vs woman war, all he is trying to do, is translating his emotions into perhaps, an exaggerated language.

          I understand, words from people, who hold a significant position in the society, matter a lot, but this instance (his comment) is not the one that requires such analysis. He was just sorry, in my opinion.

          P.S. 90% of the common people, who say, I wish I could kill the rapists , won’t do it if given a chance.

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          • Fair enough Paapaas. It’s just that I think that this is more of an ill-thought ‘good publicity’ move than an emotional outburst, but that is just my opinion, and your view certainly makes sense as well.

            Like

  82. I am frightened at the number of rapes of infants being reported these days- a 2 year old baby passes away after being raped:
    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-26/vadodara/36007807_1_baby-girl-murder-charges-halol

    Does any ‘female scientist’ now want to blame the baby girl for resisting/ wearing Western clothes etc and tell us how the little girl could have saved her life? Why can’t these people realize that victims do not ‘provoke’ or ‘invite’ rape or murder?

    Like

    • Thanx for that link anya– the second proper link I read–practical, honest and sensible ‘a Woman in the city’–recommend all to read this one folks

      Like

  83. The Bhatt movie series Murder 2,3, raaz 2,3 had tremendous footfalls in some parts of the north. Especially single screens. these movies depicted gory sex and violence. Not to forget Ekta Kapoor’s new festish for B and C grade movies. And they say remove censor board!
    These film people are shedding crocodile tears.

    Like

  84. NEW DELHI: Even as angry protest over the horrific gang-rape of a woman in Delhi rages, another girl has been molested in the national capital.

    The girl was molested by an off-duty conductor in a moving DTC cluster bus on Saturday night at Tansen Marg.

    The girl was spotted crying on the bus by cops, when the driver stopped at a police post to enquire about the way to Lajpat Nagar.

    The cops have arrested the accused, Ranjeet, and detained the driver of the cluster bus in which the girl was molested.

    A case has been registered at the Barakhmaba road police station.

    Ranjeet is the conductor of another bus which runs on 410 line.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Girl-molested-in-moving-bus-in-Delhi/articleshow/17816774.cms

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  85. Let the last word come from somebody in the film business.“There are films in which romantic wooing has been replaced by a kind of harassment of the heroine. The heroes of these films could be considered stalkers in some civil societies. Now imagine that this actor is a role model to millions… wouldn’t his fans think this behaviour is okay? Now imagine that this actress is a role model to millions… what message does it send to women across the country?”

    These are the words of actor-director Farhan Akhtar. When he says things are getting worse, please pay attention.

    Like

  86. Two-finger test for rape admissible in Indian courts- this is unbelievably SICK! How can we ever expect rapists to be prosecuted properly when such repulsive, barbaric and demeaning measures are part of the legal process?

    [Warning: Graphic language below]

    “The two-finger rape test involves a doctor inserting fingers in a rape victim’s vagina to determine its “laxity” and decide if she is “habituated to sex.” Defense lawyers often use this evidence to discredit the testimony of unmarried rape victims, who are dismissed as “loose women.”

    The states of Maharashtra and Delhi continue to recommend the finger test in their forensic examination guidelines. The Delhi forensic template even asks the examining doctor to give an opinion on whether the survivor is “habituated to sex.

    The two-finger rape test in India is physically invasive and contradicts legal standards against using a victim’s previous sexual experience against her.”

    http://womensenews.org/story/rape/101020/india-relies-two-finger-test-verify-rape

    Like

    • Sick

      Like

    • tonymontana Says:

      utterly shameful n disgusting! the law’s not just a joke, but beyond ridiculous and outrageous.

      Like

    • Ami this is a standard test in medical science. I myself learned about it (theoretically) in 2nd year MBBS in Forensic Medicine as well as in Gynaecology postings

      And I am not sure if you are aware but since anal sex and sodomy is illegal in India (comes under sexual offence since ‘anus’ is termed as an unnatural sexual orifice) there is also a similar kind of test which used to happen regarding this too

      Graphic language below-

      Btw in many countries unless there is ‘penetration’ of ‘penis’ inside a vagina, it is not technically considered rape

      Like

      • In most countries, the 2 finger test is rightly considered to be a barbaric and misogynistic measure when it is used to determine the sexual history of a rape victim. When this test was performed on rape victims in Eygpt, it evoked international protests because of how uncivilized and sexist it is. Read this:

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/sep/03/virginity-test-to-power

        So please do not try to justify it by saying that it is a ‘standard medical test’! Also, just to be clear: the government is not using this to determine if the victim has been raped but to see if the victim is ‘habituated to sex’! How on earth is this relevant and what gives them the right to obtain such information about a victim of a violent crime?

        In many countries the world over, it is illegal to question a rape victim about her sexual history since it has no bearing on the crime and adds unnecessary trauma to the victim’s already horrendous ordeal. For example, in the USA and Canada, these are called ‘rape shield’ laws.

        This is an absolutely indefensible measure and shows the sickening attitude towards rape victims prevalent in our country. If an unmarried woman has had sex with her boyfriend, then even if a stranger rapes her, it will not be considered a crime because she is already ‘habituated to sex’! Our police officers already adopt a victim-blaming atittude, the last thing we need is a test like this to add fuel to their misogynist fire.

        Like

        • Even in Eygpt, which is a politically instable Middle-Eastern country, the tests have been discountinued on account of violating human rights:

          “Gen Sisi said “the virginity-test procedure was done to protect the girls from rape as well to protect the soldiers and officers from rape accusations”, according to the state-owned newspaper, al-Ahram.

          The Scaf quickly distanced itself from the comments, but it remained a stigma for the military.

          Later, during a meeting in Cairo in June, Gen Sisi promised the human rights group, Amnesty International, that the army would no longer carry out the controversial tests. He said people alleging human rights abuses at the hands of the army should complain to the military prosecutor and stressed the importance of ensuring social justice for all Egyptians.”

          Like

          • LOL no offence taken so no clarification is needed Ami.

            And I agree with both you and Antya that the test is problematic in many ways. Just that I do not consider myself knowledgable enough to discuss the technicalities enough. I will ask my mother (who is a gynaec) abt this in case you are interested

            Btw could the two lovely ladies here leave this thread for sometime and go back to discussing films with me. Remember people this is mainly a cinema blog

            Like

          • it’s been a depressing few weeks with everything going on. not to mention my schedule is pretty unforgiving. i am still lagging behind in movie watching. can probably come up with my list only in 2-3 weeks after this rotation is over and i have time to breathe.

            Like

          • “it’s been a depressing few weeks with everything going on”
            Anya –if i remember correctly –weren’t u gonna watch django
            Maybe im wrong—It seems that the depressing incident in Delhi has scared/affected poor little anya as well and she hasn’t ventured into the cinemas–c’mon NYC is much better (through there are pockets with more than mischief)

            On a related note-know a medic European(music /gymn class) & were discussing stuff—she works really hard –Im damn impressed with medics–keep it up folks..

            Like

        • “So please do not try to justify it by saying that it is a ‘standard medical test’”

          Firstly I was not exactly trying to justify anything of that sort so please cut me some slack (you should take up the issue with the medical curriculum in India and the doctors involved in case you have a problem). And I very well know that it is not only controversial but also highly unreliable- the hymen can get torn while normal physical activity or by using sex toys ; the test can be faked by surgically by surgically suturing the torn hymen

          Secondly the ‘2 finger test’ is a technical issue- I think I and you are not qualified enough to discuss the technicalities involved.

          Finally there is no need to get so heated up on me. I did not think I said ANYTHING remotely objectionable.

          Like

          • I am not getting heated up ‘on you’, I am getting heated up about the test. If you notice my earlier comment on the test, my tone was already heated. When we’re talking about such horrifying issues, the tone of comments will obviously be impassioned, you shouldn’t take that as a personal insult.

            Secondly, I don’t need to be ‘technically qualified’ to realize that using a virginity test on rape victims is wrong on several different levels. This is not just my opinion but that of international human rights organizations.

            Here is what WHO says on the subject:

            “The World Health Organization’s (WHO) “Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence” states that says forensic examinations should be minimally invasive to the extent possible and that even a purely clinical procedure such as a bimanual examination (which also involves the insertion of two fingers into the vagina) is rarely medically necessary after sexual assault”.

            Even in India, a qualified scientific panel, hired by the government, has decried the test as ‘unscientific and degrading’: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/the-rice-bowl/india-2-finger-rape-test

            I don’t need a medical degree to realize how shameful and unnecessary the procedure described below is:

            [warning: graphic language]

            “Early this year, the Delhi government introduced a forensic examination template that even asks the examining doctor to give an opinion whether the survivor was “habituated to sex.

            Forensic examinations are a harrowing experience for many rape survivors, who are shunted from one hospital or ward to another for various aspects of the examination. Further, inserting fingers into the vaginal or anal orifice of an adult or child survivor of sexual violence during a forensic examination can cause additional trauma, as it not only mimics the abuse but can also be painful. Some doctors in India conduct the finger test with little or no regard for a survivor’s pain or trauma, Human Rights Watch found.

            Many High Court judgments reveal that doctors have testified in court that having one or two fingers inserted into the vagina is “painful” or “very painful” for the survivor. And when the survivor did not experience any pain – if two fingers could be inserted “painlessly” or “easily” – then she was described as being “habituated to sex.”

            Anyway, you are a medical student, so you do have some technical knowledge: do you not feel that examining rape victims for virginity and sexual history is unethical and unscientific, as well as traumatic and degrading to the victim?

            Like

          • @amy– agree totally –the 2 finger test is an outdated obsolete test that is now used to shield offenders , harrassment of victim further –it shifts the onus to the victim and its her sexual behaviour, ‘habituation’ which is brought to the picture –& how the hell is that relevant ??
            I checked with an east European who has finished her medical training v recently –comes to my gym classes.
            She said this is outdated, obsolete and NOT in the ‘medical curriculum’. It maybe mentioned in earlier practises though.
            Given the nature of the technique, I didn’t delve any deeper!
            Maybe it maybe different in Indian curriculum but I doubt if it is currently being followed ..

            Like

        • saurabh, just because they are teaching it in india doesn’t mean it’s legitimate. it has been discredited all over the world by modern science. india is far behind in updating their info especially when it comes to things like these. they were still teaching homosexuality as a ‘sexual aberration’ at least until a few years ago when i was in med school. in most modern societies, a book like this would be booed out of the classroom.
          also, what does virginity have to do with rape? that’s why our society is rotten from the inside. nobody questions these things. this shouldn’t even remotely be an issue. a prostitute can be raped too. this is just another example of how archaic our laws are and how shameful our procedure is when it comes to sexual assault. the definition itself needed to be broadened a long time ago. but i have no hope it will happen.

          Like

          • “also, what does virginity have to do with rape?”

            This is precisely my point. I could give a damn how scientifically accurate this test is- my question is, why on earth are Indian medical schools even teaching their students to perform a virgnity test in the first place? Just because a woman is not a virgin, doesn’t mean she can’t be raped!

            When even a politcally unstable Middle-Eastern country like Eygpt outlaws this test as a barbaric violation of human rights, what is India thinking teaching it’s medical students such things and making them look like standard, reasonable medical procedures? Why do Indian courts require rape victims to undergo such humiliating and unnecessary procedures?

            And before Saurabh thinks that I am getting personal- I am not. I am sure that you are intelligent enough to question such tests and decide for yourself how unethical and uncivilized they are, but there are many other students who will blindly accept what they are taught, thus ensuring that the ingrained prejudice towards rape victims is passed on. It’s a shame that this is part of both the medical syllabus and the legal procedure in India.

            Like

          • Saurabh- just to clarify again, my rant is NOT against you, but the test and it’s inclusion in the legal and educational framework.

            Like

          • Brilliant comment Antya. Cannot really disagree with anything

            Like

          • @antya :

            “also, what does virginity have to do with rape?”

            Bang on.

            Hope you know about kolkatta park street rape case ??? When woman chief minsiter says its not rape coz the woman in question supposedly is sex worker.

            About “2 finger virginity test” . Its highly despicable and Inhuman. its 1860 law and now will be thrown out hopefully in new Sexual assault bill lying befor parliament since 2006.

            if one go through what is going on in india since the brutal rape and death of 23 yr old young Martyr, one can see the game of govt. they want Status quo and they are just buying time so that this protest will also phase out as last ones.

            In india the root problem is patriarichy, Feudal system, Politics police and gunda nexsus and Vote Bank Politics( which has many variables)

            why doesnt Govt is seen to be compassionate and listening to this urban Protest( in their minds) ??? coz they dont get them parliament seats. Period. its Still highly skewed in favour of rural India where those issues doesnt make to there bucket list.

            Just 25% of parliament seats come from urban india and 75% from ruural india. that’s why some are calling for delimitation there also so that it may become 35-65.

            rest about rapes, We must look Within. Every parent, brother, husband must now look within. Rape is not just sexual violation but its Esp interplay of Power and Abuse. The way we treat our woman at home is being reflected on the streets now… We dont want to look within as we may have to face our conscience, so finding external escapes and reasons is natural and easy.. it saves us from guilt.

            Like

  87. T 975 -Anguished at the events of ‘Nirbhaya’, ‘Amaanat’ ‘Damini’ , have put down a few words in Hindi subjective verse ..

    समय चलते मोमबत्तियां, जल कर बुझ जाएँगी …
    श्रद्धा में डाले पुष्प, जल हीन मुर्झा जायेंगे …
    स्वर विरोध के और शांति के अपनी प्रबलता खो देंगे …
    किन्तु ‘निर्भयता’ की जलाई अग्नि हमारे ह्रदय को प्रज्वलित करेगी …
    जल हीन मुरझाये पुष्पों को हमारी अश्रु धाराएं जीवित रखेंगी …
    दग्ध कंठ से ‘दामिनी’ की ‘अमानत’ आत्मा विश्व भर में गूंजेगी …
    स्वर मेरे तुम, दल कुचलकर पीस न पाओगे …
    मै भारत की माँ बहेंनिया बेटी हूँ ,
    आदर और सत्कार की मै हक़दार हूँ …
    भारत देश हमारी माता है ,
    मेरी छोड़ो, अपनी माता की तो पहचान बनो !!

    ~ Amitabh Bachchan

    Like

  88. Dr shaurya Says:

    For every Woman on this Planet… Dont look up to men to fight for you.. Fight for your self..!!
    ……..”क्योंकि सपना है अभी भी”……

    …क्योंकि सपना है अभी भी
    इसलिए तलवार टूटी अश्व घायल
    कोहरे डूबी दिशाएं
    कौन दुश्मन, कौन अपने लोग, सब कुछ धुंध धूमिल
    किन्तु कायम युद्ध का संकल्प है अपना अभी भी
    …क्योंकि सपना है अभी भी!

    तोड़ कर अपने चतुर्दिक का छलावा
    जब कि घर छोड़ा, गली छोड़ी, नगर छोड़ा
    कुछ नहीं था पास बस इसके अलावा
    विदा बेला, यही सपना भाल पर तुमने तिलक की तरह आँका था
    (एक युग के बाद अब तुमको कहां याद होगा?)
    किन्तु मुझको तो इसी के लिए जीना और लड़ना
    है धधकती आग में तपना अभी भी
    ….क्योंकि सपना है अभी भी!

    तुम नहीं हो, मैं अकेला हूँ मगर
    वह तुम्ही हो जो
    टूटती तलवार की झंकार में
    या भीड़ की जयकार में
    या मौत के सुनसान हाहाकार में
    फिर गूंज जाती हो

    और मुझको
    ढाल छूटे, कवच टूटे हुए मुझको
    फिर तड़प कर याद आता है कि
    सब कुछ खो गया है – दिशाएं, पहचान, कुंडल,कवच
    लेकिन शेष हूँ मैं, युद्धरत् मैं, तुम्हारा मैं
    तुम्हारा अपना अभी भी

    इसलिए, तलवार टूटी, अश्व घायल
    कोहरे डूबी दिशाएं
    कौन दुश्मन, कौन अपने लोग, सब कुछ धूंध धुमिल
    किन्तु कायम युद्ध का संकल्प है अपना अभी भी
    … क्योंकि सपना है अभी भी!

    Dharamvir singh ‘Bharti’

    Like

  89. Dr shaurya Says:

    उठो द्रोपदी शस्त्र उठा
    लो, अब केशव ना आयंगे !!

    छोडो मेहँदी खड्ग संभालो, खुद ही अपना चीर बचा लो !

    द्यूत बिछाये बैठे शकुनि, हर तरफ तुम्हे मिल जायेंगे !!

    उठो द्रोपदी शस्त्र उठा लो, अब केशव ना आयंगे !

    कब तक आस लगाओगी, तुम बिक़े हुए सरकारों से,

    बहुत हो गया, निकल चलो अब, इन दुशासन दरबारों से !!

    स्वयं जो लज्जा हीन पड़े
    हैं, वे क्या लाज बचायेंगे !

    उठो द्रोपदी शस्त्र उठा
    लो, अब केशव ना आयंगे !!

    कल तक केवल अँधा था, अब राजा गूंगा बहरा भी है !

    होठ सील दिए जनता के, कानों पर पहरा भी है !!

    Like

  90. This is not rape we are talking about here; it is much, much more. It is a violation of humanity, of womanhood, of life, and of God Himself! It is a violation of one’s very existence on earth. In a way, I would say, with this cruelty — and the Connecticut school massacre — the world and all humanity did actually come to an end in December 2012 as per the Mayan calendar.

    These incidents are just an extreme manifestation of a problem that ticks around us all the time, waiting for the slightest provocation to explode in our faces. If you are one of those who doesn’t read disturbing reports and prefers to stay cocooned in a false sense of security, then things are fine for you. But in the real world, one increasingly encounters tempers on short leash, people quick to take umbrage, and ever prepared to strike back. These days, you hesitate before ticking off someone or even objecting to something. My son stops me from complaining to a waiter in a restaurant, saying, “Mom, he will get angry and spit in the food or something!” He also stops me from pulling up the house help for any misdemeanors, saying, “Haven’t you watched Dastak? Some people strike back, even kill for small, imagined insults!”

    You tell off someone for hitting your car, and he whips out a gun. You don’t allow your daughter to marry the man of her choice and she kills you. You protest when a man teases you, and he considers it his licence to stalk you and rape you. It seems that we are surrounded by ticking time bombs, human landmines you have to be careful not to step on, lest you trigger off an explosion that destroys you.

    Does this make you wonder what the world is coming to? What has changed? I asked my friend, psychiatrist Dr Deepak Raheja, on the gang rape issue. “Nothing’s changed. There is a time bomb beneath the surface of all of us. The animal instinct is part of our make-up; we are all basically animals who have learnt to train ourselves so as to fit in with our idea of a civilised society,” he says.

    http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/O-zone/entry/this-isn-t-rape-it-s-far-worse

    Blog by Vinite Dawra Nangia

    Like

  91. One conviction out of 635 rape cases in Delhi this year

    http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/one-conviction-out-of-635-rape-cases-in-delhi-this-year-311304?pfrom=home-latests

    Judges must answer why they are unable to convict more. Judges, do something and in time before people lose faith.

    Like

    • Kudos to Amy for raising and clarifying this issue of the ‘two finger test’
      Which starts testing morality, consent& the sexual behaviour of the victim rather than the gruesome violence of the perpetrator
      Amy is totally right here ! An exerpt
      “In sharp contrast, every aspect of the two-finger test is variable and subjective. The instrument of measurement — the doctor’s own fingers — may vary greatly in size and shape, for example, from a 270-pound male doctor to a 110-pound female doctor. There is neither a defined scale for “vaginal laxity” — what is “easy” for one examiner may not feel so for another — nor any related units of measurement. Instead, a doctor performing the finger test will typically comment in their own words on how “easily” he/she was able to insert one or two fingers into the survivor’s vagina.

      These “findings” are entirely subjective

      Even if the method of testing was in fact objective, the medical premise on which it is based — that so-called vaginal laxity is a scientific indicator of a woman’s past sexual history — is false. According to an interview given by a forensic medicine expert to HRW:

      [The two-finger test] is all a myth. Nothing — no scientific evidence show[s] that
      if two fingers pass or don’t pass, it has anything to do with being “habituated
      [to sexual intercourse]” or penetration at all.

      Additionally, the two-finger test problematically relies on and perpetuates myths about the hymen as an indicator of virginity. The HRW report also claims that

      Contrary to the medico-legal significance attached to the hymen… the international consensus is that the examination of a woman’s or girl’s hymen cannot indicate definitively whether she is a “virgin” or is “sexually active”. “Old tears” or “laxity” of the hymen and vagina do not prove that a girl or woman is “habituated to sex,” because they can be caused by exercise, physical activity, or the insertion of tampons or fingers, among other events not related to sexual intercourse.”

      Like

    • Even Kasab appears to be better than these 6. These 6 are Indians and yet they did it to a fellow Indian much more terrible torture which is beyond words. Would any lawyer try to defend them?

      Like

      • At this point in time I would be surprised if you would get the likes of Jethmalani or someone of that stature to touch this case with a bargepole. The pressures from the women’s right activists, public, UN is going to keep many big names away.

        Jaya bachchan’s speech was moving and spot on. I believe this is the point to make serious ammendments in our legal code towards heinous crimes like rape. We need more voices like Jaya, Shabana Azmi and Amitabh really.

        When I mean socially responsible – these are the sort of voices and people that come to my mind.

        Like

        • jethmalani would be all over this if the boys were rich.

          Like

        • Good points there Julie–
          Though I feel this situation needs more than ‘decent voices’.
          As far as I know–no REAL steps have been taken or changes in law. Subsequently the ‘momentum’ is lost and people get busy in the next latest news item/scoop !

          Like

          • I do very hope Alex that the voices do not perish. The flame of anger cannot extingusih. This is different from the Anna Hazare movement. This is not merely a fight against corruption. This is a fight against inhumanity, violence of the grossest degree, a threat to human existence, and a violation of womanhood. Many of such incidents may go unreported, but when highlighted we cannot treat it lightly. What was the fault of this poor girl. She was the hope of tomorrow, she was the torch bearer of a poor family, she was dreaming of a beautiful future which all of us have a right to do.
            till the perpetrators are hanged or brought to justice her soul cannot RIP.
            Me and my family have disbanded all New year celebration to mourn such an unfortunate incident.

            Like

          • Totally agree with your heartfelt sentiments Julie….
            btw I still feel if laws are not changed at the ‘peak’ of this agitation theres no hope later on–and maybe u should not punish yourselves/ mourn–its not your fault!
            as for the punishment—its the CERTAINTY of conviction than the SEVERITY that will be a deterrent.
            as is being pointed out in some poilice studies–The latter will only make the offenders ‘dispose of the proof’ which is even more dangerous
            ps–do write more julie on films etc–even on topics other than this sad one.
            and wishing u a happy new year

            Like

  92. The Delhi Gang Rape is being used by Singapore polticians to defend the death penalty:

    “SINGAPORE – Minister for Law and Foreign Affairs K Shanmugam has condemned the horrific gang rape of a young Indian woman in New Delhi, who died in a hospital in Singapore yesterday.

    He said on his Facebook page that it is a heartbreaking case and added that this is a type of case where the abusers should face the death penalty.

    He said he would often cite similar cases in discussions with people who want the death penalty abolished.

    Mr Shanmugam also highlighted a letter written by an Indian journalist Deepika Shetty. She had pointed out that in Singapore, young women can go about confidently at any time of the day and night, in spaghetti tops and shorts.

    Mr Shanmugam pointed out that this is a right they should have and is a right which society should protect. CHANNEL NEWSASIA”

    Like

    • In this case, the court should be bypassed and President must directly order the hanging. If they have to amend constitution for this, let them do it. If some parties oppose it, people should not elect them.

      Like

  93. The United Nations chief has urged the Indian government to take ‘urgent action’ to protect women and offered UN assistance:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/30/india-gang-rape-un-call-action

    Like

  94. And What about ‘Marital rape’??? that consitutes big %age of rapes in world as well in India. Indian society and even GOI doesnt even accept that it exists ( even in new sexual assault bill there is no mention of Marital rape and Women Org tried there best to get it in).

    Like

    • Good point on rape within marraige. I was thinking of bringing it up too. Then there is rape of minors, boys/teens….how would they even report it? We should start firstly with making public places, public transport safe. Just like trains have all female compartments, maybe we could have all female buses which are manned by female commandos or female section in buses with separate entrance for them which would stop eve teasing. We should also have cameras within the buses at various points–hidden (so noone can break them), radio system and emergency phones within the buses…where there is political will there is a way.
      Ironically some women protestors have complained about being groped at jantar-mantar (article in firstpost I believe) which is such a shame. I don’t think Indian male species is going to change all that quickly. There are some right here on our blog who are obsessed with sex. Not sure what they might be doing when “not watched” in buses/trains/work place. I wonder…..

      Like

  95. Dental nurse sacked for being ‘irresistable’ -in Iowa!!

    Patriarchy is alive and well in Iowa, where a court backed a dentist who fired Melissa Nelson for being a ‘temptress’
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/27/dental-nurse-sacked-temptress-melissa-nelson

    Like

  96. The avg age of Indian parliamentarians is 65, whereas the avg age of the Indian populace is 25. This generational gap is too wide, too deep for the lawmakers to undersand the issues and concerns of its own citizenry. It is probably the widest age-gap of any functioning democracy. A vast majority of elders cannot reconcile themselves to female freedom, of their right to choose their own mates, their right to wear whatever clothes they would like to, etc. These oldies need to die out, and be replaced with a fresh batch of age-appropriate lawmakers.
    Another isssue is representation of urban voters. 35% of Indians are urbanite, but they are represented by only 20% of parliament. The rural lawmakers represent a still-fuedal mindset, that severely restricts female freedom. It will take another generation before rural conservatism is shaken from its roots.
    Unless these gaps are reduced, nothing will change.

    Like

  97. Dr shaurya Says:

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/honey-singh-new-year-show-cancelled-in-gurgaon-obscene-lyrics/1/240309.html

    A Gurgaon hotel has cancelled the New Year Eve concert of rapper Yo Yo Honey Singh in the wake of widespread criticism following the Delhi gangrape victim’s death.

    An FIR was also registered in Lucknow against the controversial singer for the explicit and demeaning lyrics of two of his songs, Rape rap and C*** t.

    IPS officer Amitabh Thakur, on whose complaint the FIR was registered, said: “These songs are vulgar, lewd, indecent and act as catalysts for crime against women.” Demands for banning the concert, the tickets of which ranged from Rs.14,000 to Rs.25,000, gained ground as activists shot off emails to the general manager of The Bristol hotel. A petition was also filed on the website change.org.

    “These pornographic lyrics are unacceptable and it is because of women-hating sentiments like these that men think that it’s fine to do what they did on that bus…,” said the petition.

    The hotel initially said it will go ahead with the event. “We have sold the tickets. The audience wants to see him perform live, thus cancelling the show and refunding the money is impossible,” a publicity manager for the show said. But under flak, it decided to call off the show.

    The rapper disowned these songs. His publicist said: “These are not Honey Singh’s songs. He has never ever composed and written such songs. This is an attempt to malign him by people who are jealous of him.” But the discography of a 2006 album, also titled C*** t, featured the song as the title number of the album and mentions Yo Yo Honey Singh and Badshah as the singers.

    Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/honey-singh-new-year-show-cancelled-in-gurgaon-obscene-lyrics/1/240309.html

    Like

  98. Apparently, the justice lady takes off her blinders when the accused is Pandeyji..taneek iske baare mein tippani toh dijiye..

    http://movies.ndtv.com/movie_story.aspx?ID=312254&subcatg=&keyword=bollywood&nid=312254&pfrom=home-movies

    In contrast to the above, there is this incident..

    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-07-29/india/29828371_1_judicial-custody-plea-tihar-jail

    This is India..contrast this to what happened with Bernie and Rajat Gupta in the US..

    As the great angry actor/philosopher/farmer/slapper Shri Nana Patekar once said..Saala sau mein se assi beimaan, phir bhi mera desh mahaan???

    Like

  99. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Boy-unable-to-walk-after-nightlong-ragging-at-School-of-Planning-and-Archit

    The victim, Naveen Kujur, 22, a student of B Arch at the School of Planning and Architecture (SPA), said in his complaint that he was made to do sit-ups and push-ups by his seniors at the college hostel the entire night on September 2. The seniors did not relent even though Naveen pleaded with them to stop, he alleged.

    Naveen told TOI that the torture began when his senior called him to the terrace side of the hostel around midnight. “First they asked me to do push-ups. After doing around a hundred they put bricks on my back and asked me to continue. The seniors then told me to hold the bricks parallel to my chest and stand still till they finished their countdown,” he said.

    After that, the exhausted student was allegedly forced to do sit ups while the seniors began their ‘random’ countdown. “They started their count from minus and then went to zero and then began to count randomly. If I did 50 they would again start from 30 and ask me to do another 100. My legs were trembling and I was almost on the verge of losing my consciousness but the seniors did not stop,” Naveen alleged.

    The next day, the student could not walk and was falling down on his way to the bus stand. “My friend rushed me to Holy Family Hospital and I was provided preliminary treatment but that did not help. I informed my father who asked me to immediately return home. I tried boarding the train on September 10 but could not climb on it. Next day, my friends helped me board the train,” Naveen claimed.

    Is this any less than ragging by supposedly educated goons?

    Like

  100. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Delhi-gang-rape-case-Juvenile-may-go-free-in-months/articleshow/17878262

    The boy committed the most heinous act during that rape act may walk free after a few months because he is a minor.

    Here I want the judges to go by the spirit of justice and not by written rule which is to be applied to minor offences rather than sadism, rape and murder.

    Like

    • Sanjana: Judges cannot go by the “spirit of justice” in criminal cases, but have to go by written rules. They can adjust punishments and certain other things within discretion, but they have no authority to just make things up. It’s one thing to change the law for some heinous crimes (in the US, in several instances minors can be tried as adults, and I don’t know what the analogous Indian legal provision is), but in the absence of any legal provision (assuming that is the case; might not be a correct assumption) hands are tied.

      As a general matter, I am VERY skeptical about calls for giving rapists the death penalty: one worry is that if we mandate that punishment, rapists will be more likely to murder their victims after raping them (in fact, note that these six defendants allegedly also thought the victim was dead when they threw the body out), as there is no GREATER penalty for murder than for rape. In the interests of cheap/easy symbolism or to address our outrage, there are all these calls for the death penalty for rapists, but I share the concerns of some women’s groups who feel this might end up endangering women who are victims of assault.

      Second, I do not for one second believe that the reason rapes occur is that Indian criminal law does not prescribe adequate punishments. It isn’t credible to me that a rapist thinks “Hey, I could go to jail for 7-10 years, but that’s a piece of cake so let me go ahead”; I think rapists rely on other factors (the crime is difficult to prove; many victims are reluctant to come forward for understandable reasons), and there is probably some percentage of rapists who don’t think they have raped anyone, or who don’t think the woman’s consent is relevant. I don’t see the death penalty as addressing any of these.

      Third, one category of rape that hasn’t received any press is “political rape” — this is a very common occurrence, and every day in the newspaper one can read of (e.g.) Dalit girls being raped BECAUSE they are Dalits, or to teach “uppity” Dalits a lesson (e.g. the Kalinjar atrocities in Maharashtra). Perhaps stringent penalties MIGHT affect some instances in this category, but even here I am skeptical (if entire communities are involved and enthusiastically supportive of the atrocity, be it public stripping, rape, or khap panchayat-decreed murders, prosecutions become very difficult indeed).

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      • I am not in favor of death penalty for rape but I do favor it, if it causes physical harm which results in death of victim (like in this case). There are three kinds of people:
        1. One who will commit crime irrespective of quantum of punishment.
        2. Who will never do it.
        3. People who are on fence.

        I think punishment acts as deterrent for case 3. Case 1 is like suicide bombers or Kasabs.

        ps – I think good number of people fall in 3.

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        • Yes, in this instance I agree, because it seems to be a case of murder/rape-leading-to-death as well.

          Like

        • Q- I’m a little bewildered by the logic that a rapist would commit murder just because the punishment for both is equal. If a man is willing to rape, don’t you think this is because he is confident that he will not be punished or caught (except for a few pyschopathic exceptions wo can never be curtailed by any law anyway)? I find it hard to believe that many rapists would commit the crime even though they feel that they would be caught and put to death, and then think “Oh, what the heck, I’m going to die anyway, so I might as well murder my victim”!

          I think that it is far more likely that the death penalty for rape will deter rapes from happen than that it will cause rapists to murder their victims, thereby making absolutely sure sure that they face the death penalty for both crimes. If an example is made of a few high-profile cases where rape is proven, and the rapists are promptly given the death penalty, I do think that it would have a very marked effect in bringing down the incidence of rape.

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          • Ami: you misunderstand me: my point is that if we have a death penalty for rape, rapists are more likely to kill their victims to get rid of evidence — this is precisely the concern voiced by some women’s groups, and I am sympathetic to it. If the victim is killed, there is less likelihood of the perpetrator being caught than if someone is around to talk. In fact, the Indian Express reports today that one of those arrested has told the police that when they threw the victim out of the bus, they thought she was already dead — when they learned differently the next morning from the news, that was when the six decided to split up.

            Stated differently, your logic pursued to its logical conclusion would suggest that men rape because they feel they can do so with impunity as the criminal code will not punish them severely enough — but my view is that men more likely rape because they feel they can do so with impunity because of factors such as that: (a) it is very difficult to convict; (b) victim won’t come forward; (c) police/investigative authorities aren’t sympathetic; and so on. None of these factors are addressed by mindlessly ratcheting up penalties — those are symbolic gestures that won’t help women much. In fact, the public clamor is deflecting focus from the real issue: misogyny, violence, and a blame-the-victim mindset, as well as an investigative/prosecutorial system that is unsympathetic to the victim. Many of the protesters themselves unwittingly contribute to the mindset: I have heard comments like “women should be respected because they are wives, mothers, daughters, sisters” — but all of these define a woman’s worth RELATIONALLY, and NOT intrinsically, which is part of the problem.

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      • “think rapists rely on other factors (the crime is difficult to prove; many victims are reluctant to come forward for understandable reasons), and there is probably some percentage of rapists who don’t think they have raped anyone, or who don’t think the woman’s consent is relevant. I don’t see the death penalty as addressing any of these.”

        I agree here- but even if the death penalty doesn’t address these factors, it does address one other, very important factor: the fact that rapes are committed so impudently is because many rapists feel that even if a complaint is registered and proven to be true, they will not be punished! After all, there was only one conviction out of the hundreds of rapes reported in Delhi last year! The legal enforcement system is seen as completely impotent, and a few swiftly tried cases resulting in the death penalty being awarded to rapists will change this.

        This brazen confidence that any kind of sexual misbehaviour with women will go unpunished can also be seen in the frequency with which molestation and groping occurs on public transport and in public areas in India. i’m not saying that sexual harassment should be punished with death of course, but that this is indicative of the confidence that sexual criminals have that nobody will hold them accountable for their deeds.

        As for the factors you’ve mentioned: the first thing that needs to be done is to remove the unspeakably hideous ‘2 finger test’ from the Indian legal system. This ‘test’ reduces the whole process of investigating a rape a misogynistic joke, and I don’t know why the newspapers aren’t giving it more coverage.

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        • Re: “many rapists feel that even if a complaint is registered and proven to be true, they will not be punished! After all, there was only one conviction out of the hundreds of rapes reported in Delhi last year!”

          The above goes to CONVICTION (see my other comment), and NOT to whether the penalty is stiff enough: imposing the death penalty would not make conviction easier. In fact, it would make it even more difficult, as judges and courts would be even more reluctant to convict if they felt that convicting meant execution. All evidence from court systems in democracies all over the world suggests that courts set higher and more stringent requirements of proof etc. before they will impose the death penalty (lowering standards in the case of rape might even raise constitutional questions in countries like India and the United States).

          Aside: consider the following thought experiment:

          1. Marital rape: do you really believe that wives raped by husbands are more likely to come forward if they think their husbands will be executed as a result? I submit not.

          2. Date rape: the same ante-diluvian men (including many judges and cops, and many men and women “in society”) who believe that a woman was asking for it if she was wearing x, was with a man at Y-hour at Z-place, are not MORE likely to convict just because the penalty is death. In fact, they are far LESS likely IMO.

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          • PS — what about this case? Well, in this case, following on from the discussion with munna, the six men can be tried for murder, and face the death penalty that way.

            PPS — Aside: leaving all other considerations aside, I am a little uncomfortable about the message that is sent, especially in a patriarchal society, by imposing the death penalty for rape. The message is: rape is so heinous a crime, that the victim’s life is practically over. She might as well be dead — hence we should execute the perpetrator.” Or at least, my concern is that’s how this sort of penalty may be interpreted, and in fact it could reinforce notions to the effect that the violation of a woman is the very summit of human atrocity. Far from liberating women from fear, this sort of notion might further enslave them to notions of honor/chastity and so on (it isn’t NECESSARILY the case, but given a patriarchal/misogynist backdrop, it could easily, all too easily be hijacked in this manner).

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          • I will admit that your point on date rape is persuasive; I hadn’t considered the possibility that the death penalty would cause rape conviction to go down even further. However, your point on martial rape is sadly redundant, since this is not even recognized as a crime by the Indian constitution(!); when the TOI ran an article on this issue, the highest rated comments all basically said that prosecuting men for marital rape would be a violation of men’s rights, since marraiges implies that a man is unconditionally sexually entitled to his wife!

            I think that it is simply impossible for many people (male and female) to even concieve of marital rape as a crime, so it’s going to be a very long time before such incidents start getting punish; indeeed, I think that even most victims of marital rape in India are not aware that a crime has been committed.

            Agree with all the steps you’ve outlined below; I am perplexed as to why the two-fingered test is not being given any coverage by the Indian media, when removing it is possibly the most important reform that needs to be made.

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          • Agree with anyas well thought/heartfelt comment..
            “once you have pulled out another human being’s guts with your hands, you are not human any more). if there is no provision to try him as an adult, amendment needs to be made”
            Yeah all this talk of that ‘minor’ getting leniency is bs–if as a minor he’s capable of this–one can only imagine…

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        • Sorry, my comment above was cross-posted before I could read your reply to my earlier comment. I f you think that the death penalty will cause rapists to kill their victims in order to dispose of the ‘evidence’, then what do you think can/ should be done to tackle the problem from a *purely law & order perspective*? Because social reform to condition people to value women intristically is a very idealistic goal considering that we live in a country where there is so little value on female life that millions of female feotuses and infants are killed every year, purely on basis of their gender.

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          • Re: “I f you think that the death penalty will cause rapists to kill their victims in order to dispose of the ‘evidence’, then what do you think can/ should be done to tackle the problem from a *purely law & order perspective*?”

            A few steps:

            1. All-female, or primarily female, police units for these sorts of crimes.
            2. Enacting a rape-specific statute that renders any evidence of what the victim was wearing inadmissible in court, as unduly prejudicial. [Intoxication presents a more complicated issue, since it goes to consent — a defendant accused of rape is IMO entitled to argue that the woman in fact consented. However, the statute could impose a legal limit: e.g. any woman with XYZ quantity of alcohol in her blood will be deemed incapable of consent.]

            3. Given the particularities of the Indian social context, perhaps we should have a unique system of proof for sexual violence (e.g. India has certain specific rules/standards in dowry cases, and perhaps we should think about doing the same in rape cases).

            4. Getting rid of any two-fingered tests.

            5. Character testimony, whereby defendants get to go into the victim’s sexual history, should be also be precluded by statute.

            I am no expert on Indian statutes, so it might be that some of these steps are already enshrined in statute (where’s MKSrooney, our resident legal expert?)

            Finally, note that I haven’t considered one other aspect of the death penalty: it might be that as a society, we feel that even if the death penalty doesn’t reduce the number of rapes, we don’t care: this sort of criminal disgusts us so much that we want to execute him (e.g. there is little evidence that the death penalty by itself reduces murder rates, but Americans are generally quite attached to it) — i.e. the death penalty might serve a retributive purpose, even if it doesn’t serve the policy of reducing rape rates (I think retribution animates many of the protesters, even if they might not couch it in those terms). That’s a separate issue altogether (and in my mind would raise the question of politics: namely, which crimes deserve the ultimate retribution and which do not?)

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          • Death sentence gives some relief to the victim’s family that their torturer is dead and they need not think about him anymore and can move on.

            We know how lawyers will save the worst possible criminals. Example the BMW case where the luxury car became a truck.

            Here we have to ponder as to why naxalites or maoists are there in the first place? Why many intellectuals sympathise with them? It is not that they have no criminals. They have many criminals and would be criminals too.

            Out judicial system is more bothered about the letter of the law. Is law made to serve victims or criminals? Many times it is the criminals who benefit from the law and its loopholes.

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          • agree with your very well thought out points and arguments. just a few caveats. rape may be inherently a globally prevalent sociological issue but it is a criminal one as well since it is a punishable offense, which makes it very much a law and order situation. that’s why rape is same all over the world but prevalence of the crime itself and the conviction rates vary widely. because countries with a better legal system and more control over crimes are more likely to see a drop in the incidents compared to say india, which at this point is very much a gunda raj type society, for all our speeches about indian values and such. all over the world, including the US, improving the conviction rates has resulted in a drop in every crime including rape. that’s why even regional differences in rates within india exist, with delhi far ahead of every other place. when you can’t file a report without paying a bribe and can get out of pretty much anything by doing the same, you are more likely to be brazen about crime. saying that attitudes and mindsets need to change is true but that is a more long winded organic process. we cannot wait around letting women be brutalized in the meantime. the law needs to come down on this, hard. any police personnel found guilty of harassing victims and not registering complaints need to be sacked right away. any judges telling victims to think about family honor need to be pulled up and retrained that their job is not to uphold indian values (whatever the hell that means) but to uphold the constitution. the victims need to be heard and feel safe. and punishment itself does need to be severe. i am against death penalty in principle (especially because the investigative process is so appalling and there is the possibility of convicting the wrong person which has been known to happen. you cannot bring back somebody once they are dead). lot of rapists are ‘escalating’ criminals, they start with less severe forms of harassment and abuse and gradually get bolder, many of them are repeat offenders. all kinds of sexual offenses need to be punished more severely and rapists should never be allowed to be free again once convicted, imprisonment for life with no possibility of parole, no reason to unleash these people on society again, where they may harm more people.
            and may i say this “he is not 18” thing is utter bs. just because the guy hasn’t hit his 18th birthday yet doesn’t mean he did not not what he was doing. the sheer brutality suggests a sociopath who cannot be rehabilitated (once you have pulled out another human being’s guts with your hands, you are not human any more). if there is no provision to try him as an adult, amendment needs to be made. i’ll lose my shit if this guy walks after serving 2 years in juvie.
            phew! that was too long.

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          • my looong comment was addressed to qalandar

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  101. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/bjp-leader-quotes-ramayana-says-women-who-cross-limits-pay-the-price/313761-37-64.html
    He says woman who cross the LK(Lakshman Rekha) pay the price.

    Another one says rapes do not occur in Bharat(villages) but in India(urban ares)http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Rapes-occur-in-India-not-Bharat-RSS-supremo-Bhagwat/articleshow/17880248.cms

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    • And so the dumbo BJP politicians follow the lead of their fellow US tea-partiers who were dumb enough to talk about “body rape shutdowns, rape pregnancy, etc”.
      Despite the Congress virtually giving away the keys to power on a silver platter, the BJP just digs its own grave. Dumb and Dumber is the season of Indian politics.

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    • What a joke: in rural India rapes occur all the time (they might be reported less). In fact, I suspect caste-based/political rapes probably occur more often in rural India than in urban India.

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    • So it again shows, just making laws won’t make much difference, its sense of saving one from guilt.

      Mindset and sensitisation is what we as society need, ESP our dumb, deaf, Blind and out of sync Pol Leaders..

      and let me Mr Bhagwat do google Bhanwari Devi rape case, Phoolan Devi and Mathura rape case. They all happned in ‘Bharat’

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  102. This isn’t exactly pleasant reading (or viewing), but perhaps it might provide a perverse relief for those in India self-flagellating themselves over the Delhi rape:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256386/Steubenville-rape-case-Video-shows-group-high-school-students-laughing-girls-ordeal.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    The problem goes beyond country and culture.

    The efforts of anonymous hackers to gather evidence to help the police:

    http://www.examiner.com/article/hacker-group-gathers-scrubbed-evidence-for-use-against-the-rape-crew

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    • It most certainly is about “culture”: in the Steubenville case, the attitude of college and high school athletes vis-a-vis women (and the culture of impunity with which they are allowed to operate by a sports-worshiping public and a complicit school administration) have long been issues in the United States, as a number of such crimes on various campuses illustrate.

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      • I meant it’s not something that’s peculiar to Indian culture. Patriarchy rules pretty much over the entire world.

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        • But “patriarchy” is a very general term: when we talk about particular manifestations (e.g. stripping a Dalit woman and parading her naked in Kalinjar; or the Steubenville atrocities where athletic achievement and aggression against women are going hand-in-hand) we are talking about culturally specific manifestations that do vary a lot from place to place — and need a suitably culturally specific response (e.g. beyond a point it becomes hard to talk about rape in India without talking about India’s caste politics; it is hard to talk about rape in America without talking about the cultural acceptability of violence against women, I should say aestheticized violence against women, so omnipresent in popular music, pornorgraphy, and mainstream movies and advertising that it barely registers and comes to define the norm)…

          Why does it matter? Because to simply say that “it happens everywhere” is conducive to a passive attitude. For instance, the fact that racism occurs everywhere would surely not lead a discriminated ethnic or religious or racial group to NOT fight for its rights, would it? The form the discrimination, and the struggle against it, takes, is culturally specific.

          [Aside: there is a second point: the fact that “it” — whatever “it” is — happens everywhere does not mean that “it” occurs everywhere to the same degree. Thus, America is less racist than many countries, and more than others, when it comes to black people (as more than one African-American will attest to when comparing the US to France); but an Algerian might have the opposite reaction. Similarly, women are undoubtedly safer on Bombay’s or New York’s streets than on Delhi’s — and it is worth thinking about why this is so and what makes it so. Neither “it happens everywhere” nor “Down with the government!” gets us there.]

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          • Q, I don’t have time now to enter into a discussion. I’ll just say that you’ve greatly misinterpreted my position, perhaps due to my brevity. Certainly there are local variations, but the similarities overrule them. The basic underlying premise is one of male entitlement, and those males perceived to be or actually in privileged positions not being accountable for their actions, to the extent that they are astonished when they are held accountable. If you have caste based, or religion based, rapes in India, you have race based ones in the U.S. They may not be as frequent, but again the underlying thinking is the same. And you have war rapes in much of Europe and Africa. The underlying principle of all these actions is that of viewing women as property, to be “protected” or desecrated by one set of men or the other, to settle their own scores. Note that in this context even “protection” isn’t very honorable, since it presumes that the women have to be under the men’s authority. I think you said something similar in an earlier comment upthread.

            But in all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Delhi rape, I have detected a trend (that crops up in many discussions of social ills in India) to make it sound as if these problems are specific to something horrendously wrong in India or India’s culture, and that such ills are absent in “modern” countries. I think it is important to note that that is not the case at all. One must deeply examine the fundamental issues and address them. Nothing will be solved overnight, but progress has been made in many other places, even in India, by sustained effort.

            On another point, that is why all these calls for draconian action against these accused men in particular and rapists in general are again misguided, IMO. These quick fix solutions are too easy, and are more designed to make everyone feel that they are “doing something” to solve the problem, while in actuality they are not even addressing the problem. The rape laws currently on the books are strict enough. But the problem is in their enforcement, and even more, in the lack of trust of the general populace in the police and the judicial establishment. This is true not just for rape, but for any crime. People do not automatically turn to the police when they are in trouble, but try to avoid them as much as possible, because they know very well that the cure will be much worse than the complaint. Until that problem is solved, it doesn’t matter how tough the laws become. Similarly, until people with criminal charges or records are made ineligible to run for political office, there will be no will from the political class to address the issue. But these problems are much more deeply entrenched, and require greater effort to solve, than merely increasing penalties for laws.

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          • I think we agree on many of these points, certainly on the penalties.

            On tooth-gnashing in India, I would add that many in India lose no opportunity to blame (in the abstract) “politicians” or “government” (a reflection of how government-centric the mindset continues to be). But hardly anyone is examining their own attitudes — I think it is all too easily for “us” to hysterically project all of our own guilt and sexism onto some “other” and beat that straw man to death. In the US, people are less likely to try and attach Ohio’s governor for this sort of thing, whereas Sheila Dixit got heckled and almost attacked in public…

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          • “But in all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the Delhi rape, I have detected a trend (that crops up in many discussions of social ills in India) to make it sound as if these problems are specific to something horrendously wrong in India…”
            They inserted iron rod from bottom into her which damaged and caused multi-organ failure and eventually a VERY painful death (she died peacefully is media/political bullshit). This sort of sadism with rape is unheard of in west or in most other countries. This case has the public fury and outrage for this reason because rapes otherwise are quite common in India and women don’t die from rape. Another friend thinks that public fury is because it impacted “one of us”…had it been a village woman there wouldn’t have been this outcry.

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        • Dental nurse sacked for being ‘irresistable’ -in Iowa!!

          Patriarchy is alive and well in Iowa, where a court backed a dentist who fired Melissa Nelson for being a ‘temptress’
          http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/27/dental-nurse-sacked-temptress-melissa-nelson

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          • Typo-irresistible
            Think here the pastor & the courts also involved!
            A peculiar case indeed-
            Is it the poor woman’s fault that she is irresistible
            And ironically it’s the ‘other woman’ ie dentists wife accusing her–what a case…

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  103. I’d just say Internet Zindabad! Social Networking Zindabad!
    Its interesting to see how American commentators to the Ohio case (in the page link above) have equated the Ohio case to the Delhi case. As long as democracies do not suppress free speech on the net, the raising of public awareness through the net will speed up social change.

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  104. “A 16-year-old Dalit girl was gang-raped by 12 men from the Jat community. The men videoed the rape and circulated it on their mobiles. When the girl confided what had happened to her to her parents, her father, Krishen Kumar, committed suicide.

    Dalit victims often cannot even get legal help. Shreeji Bhavsar, a Supreme Court lawyer explains why lawyers hesitate to represent Dalit victims in court. “After the incident, the police launched a witch-hunt against my colleague, Rajat Kalsan (who had represented Dalit victims in courts.) His office was raided and he and his father were beaten up in the court premises.”

    As a Dalit village elder points out, “We are always at the receiving end of such atrocities.” There are 600 such police cases still pending just in this one state alone!”

    http://tehelka.com/dalit-girl-gangraped-filmed/

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    • Is this an old incident or are these happening even AFTER the Delhi incident
      The only ‘bright side’ is that this gruesome incident will significantly reduce such incidents in delhi /India

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      • yeah, right! dream on.

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        • Yeah I do go into this optimist mode
          Let’s daydream 2gether
          Jokes apart– I’m sure it will reduce rapes after all this noise n fury
          Eg–‘rapeX’ is the answer for non-gang rape situations
          Also taekwondo, kick boxing etc should help
          B+ve folkz

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  105. If I’m not wrong, Shadnaga is part of rural Bharat not ‘modern India’ as the BJP politician put it, yet it doesn’t seem to be devoid of crimes against women at all:

    “A woman was allegedly gang raped and murdered at Shadnagar town in Mahbubnagar district on Sunday. With this, the total number of women raped and murdered in the town and the district in the last one month has reached five and seven respectively.Till now, not a single case has been solved or the culprit arrested…In 2008, there was a similar scare in the town, when a gang went on a rape-and-murder spree. Some 10 women were murdered then.”

    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-11-22/hyderabad/30428470_1_woman-gang-colony-civic-amenities

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    • Sorry, here is the most recent update on Shadnage, the murder-rape count is now upto 16!

      “While the spate of rape-murder incidents continues to scare the residents, police are still clueless about the killer…. In the last few months alone, 16 rape-murder cases have been reported in and around Shadnagar.”

      http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-01-03/hyderabad/30584242_1_killer-murder-shadnagar

      And to answer Alex’s question, these crimes are still very much taking place after the Delhi incident. You only need to open the Times of India website to see the number of horrendous rapes and murders of women being reported in every city, everyday.

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      • Hmm I think this is truly perplexing
        Can’t be explained !!
        This sounds like an epidemic rather than endemic ..
        I still feel south /madras/Kerala etc are perhaps much better in this regards though..

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        • Some ‘connected’ well to do females around Delhi are thinking /have applied for gun license -(have heard from some folks-maybe exaggerated claims though since some of those females can be unreliable/gossipy)

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  106. Her friend has come out with this exclusive interview.
    “I never thought of leaving her and running away”
    http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/i-never-had-thoughts-of-leaving-her-and-running-away-delhi-gang-rape-victims-friend_820801.html

    The Delhi police on Friday night decided to register a case against Zee News after the channel aired the interview …..

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    • qalandar’s point of the public trying to place the blame elsewhere is very pertinent. people are out on the streets blaming police, politicians, media. but aren’t they all part of the system, part of the populace, part of us? just like all those people who stood by and did nothing. we as a society and nation are apathetic and impotent. then we try to play the victim and give credence to the false dichotomy of ‘us’ vs ‘them’. there is no difference. police, judiciary and politicians all come from the aam junta. we are now venting our anger at ‘them’ because we we don’t want to acknowledge or deal with what’s wrong with ‘us’. they are us. so are the people who raped her, so are the people who harass women on a daily basis on public transport. so are the people traveling on that public transport who watch silently as it happens everyday. we are all responsible. we all killed her. i feel sick!

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      • Can totally empathise with u anya
        But don’t blame yourselves–it’s that system.
        The same people in other /western countries respect the law– something’s wrong in that milieu, it seems…
        The main point– what steps hav been taken… Zilch!!

        Like

      • “qalandar’s point of the public trying to place the blame elsewhere is very pertinent…”
        Agree. We the people should protest when we see a girl/woman being eve-teased. Most people turn blind eye. However the young man who was with “damini” also states that people are scared because the police/authorities harass the “witness” or people who are trying to help…why…he himself was sitting in police thana for 4 days after the incident…so in a way police harassed him too instead of taking him to hospital after maybe a few hours of “questioning”…it was only because his dad and lawyer intervened that things changed for him (per what he states in the interview). The “system” and the junta are in a relationship where one needs to make another accountable.

        Like

      • source outlookindia:
        •Six persons who declared that they had rape charges against them contested the 2009 Lok Sabha elections. Of them, one is from the Rashtravadi Communist Party, one from the RPP, a third from the Bahujan Samaj Party, another from the Jharkhand Mukti Morcha while two were independent candidates.
        •Political parties gave tickets to 27 candidates who contested state elections in the last five years and who declared they had rape charges against them. Of these, seven were independent, five from the SP, two each from the BJP and one from the Congress. Ten of these are from UP alone and five from Bihar.
        •Six sitting MLAs have declared rape charges against them. They are Sribhagwan Sharma (SP, Khurja, UP), Anoop Sanda (SP, Sultanpur, UP), Manoj Kumar Paras (SP, Nagina, UP), Mohammad Aleem Khan (BSP, Bulandshahr, UP), Jethabhai G. Ahir (BJP, Shahera, Gujarat) and Kandikunta Venkata Prasad (TDP, Kadiri, AP).

        Like

  107. This is India and candle light Vigils…
    This is Simply heartrendring and wretching to hear the Frnd of 23 yr Old speaking to Zee Tv..

    We indians should be Ashamed and left to me, all Pol leaders to be dumped in far away ocean

    Must READ 😥

    People stared at us and left, but didn’t help: Delhi gang-rape victim’s friend

    http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/my-friend-wanted-to-live-delhi-gang-rape-victims-friend_820801.html

    Like

    • The people on the street didn’t help..chalo they were scared..but the worse is even after reaching hospital the people didn’t give any sheets or any thing to cover for over an hour! I can “understand” them not starting treatment for one hour because of redtape but not giving sheet to cover or even hospital robe was apalling. Had thy been taken to Apollo or AIIMS she might still be alive…India is definately headed towards dark ages if not already there!

      Like

  108. Don’t have the courage to read/ watch about this anymore–so haven’t– it’s too depressing
    But this guy ( the girls friend) deserves all the credit / respect for his stance and for coming out openly and voiced his stance for others …he had an option of not coming on camera
    Bravo- ….!!

    Like

  109. I’m not very hopeful at all, but it would be amazing if the anger and awareness caused by this horrendous incident are sustained and translate into some sort of action. So far, there have been dozens of brutal gang rapes, rapes of minors and rapes and murders of women reported every day after the Delhi incident, and yet the law enforcement remains as useless as ever. Yesterday I read an article about a woman who was gang-raped, and she and her husband had to threaten to commit suicide in front of the police station before the police officers would register a complaint!

    “Indian women also have much else to be gloomy about, especially if they live in the north. India is generally at or near the bottom of the heap of women’s misery. A UN index in 2011 amalgamated details on female education and employment, women in politics, sexual and maternal health and more. It ranked India 134th out of 187 countries, worse than Saudi Arabia, Iraq or China. India’s 2011 census confirmed an increasingly distorted sex ratio among newborn babies in many states, India is missing millions of unborn girls. Discrimination continues throughout life. Boys in villages are typically fed better than girls and are more likely to get an education. Women are routinely groped and harassed by men on buses and trains. Many Indian brides still pay dowries…

    [But] There is no reason to think that India is destined to abuse women. Its biggest religion, Hinduism, is relatively tolerant towards them. India already has a liberal constitution and a host of progressive laws, for example against sex-selective abortion and against dowries. The country has role models: a decent crop of high-ranking women politicians, civil servants, judges and journalists…

    As India shifts from being a poor, mostly rural place to an urban, wealthier and modern one, more women will study, take paid jobs and decide for themselves whom to marry or divorce and where to live. But the journey will be a long one.”

    Economist article: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21569031-horrible-attack-could-prove-turning-point-indias-women-rape-and-murder-delhi?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/rapeandmurderindelhi

    Like

  110. Dr shaurya Says:

    Read this post on Facebook. Found it worthy enough to be shared-

    बड़े अजीब मिजाज के है इण्डियन मेरा मतलब भारतीय दोस्त…

    ..मोहन भागवत पे कुछ लिख दो तो…
    …कांग्रेसी हो का भाया???

    दिग्गविजय राहुल पे लिख दो तो….
    …संघी हो का भाया??

    प्रज्ञा,रामदेव पे कुछ लिख दो तो…
    ….शेखुलर हो का भाया???

    ओवैसी,बुखारी पे लिख दो तो…
    …साम्प्रदायिक हो का भाया???

    मायावती,काशीराम पे लिख दो तो…
    …तो दलित विरोधी हो का भाया???

    अरे भाई!इन सब के अलावा भी अपनी कुछ पहचान है की हम सब ”इस देश की जनता”है

    वो जनता जो खुद इनसे शोषित है,
    खुद इन सब से उपेक्षित है।
    खुद हम ही इनको लाईमलाईट मेँ लाते है,
    फिर इनकी चमचागिरी करते हुये भगवान बना देते है।
    फिर ऐसी नौबत आती है की एक शब्द इनके विरोध मेँ सुनना गँवारा नहीँ होता।

    ।।।।मैँ इनमेँ से कुछ नहीँ,बस इस देश की ‘साधारण जनता’हुँ।।।।

    देशभक्ति सर्वोपरि,
    अंधभक्ति कदापि नहीँ।

    Like

  111. http://www.hindustantimes.com/Entertainment/Television/Crime-Patrol-to-air-episode-based-on-Delhi-gangrape/Article1-

    While India is still seething over the Delhi gang-rape case and fighting for justice for the victim, Sony’s hit show Crime Patrol is gearing up to feature the case in an episode next weekend. The team might shoot in Delhi for the episode with host Anoop Soni.

    Director Subbu Iyer says he chose
    related stories

    Actors debate: have TV serials contributed to the increasing crimes?

    to showcase the horrific crime to keep the fire for justice burning.

    “The presentation will be sensitive, yet factual. We won’t sensationalise it. We will tell the story of an innocent girl. What happened in that bus was cruel and perverse. We will focus on the mindset of the people who commit such heinous crimes and talk about where such brutality comes from,” says Subbu.

    He claims that he’s angry about the situation in India regarding the women’s safety. Subbu says, “I am not going to stop with just this case as there are many others where justice has been delayed. They are many cases that have gone through fast-track courts but the final decision is still stuck in higher courts. In the past too, our show has covered several other cases where justice has been denied or delayed.”

    Like

    • Crime Patrol is on Sony anchored by Anoop Soni, noted television actor.

      Like

      • Crime patrol is right now the Best show across all channels in India, IMHO. After its success, all channels have come up with Variants but none can match it, grt set of actors, very good presentation and commentary by Anoop Soni.

        Like

  112. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/delhi-gangrape-accused-on-suicide-watch-jail-officials/314010-3-244.html

    All five accused in the heinous gangrape and murder of a 23-year-old here are under “suicide watch” after they stopped interacting with other jail inmates and amongst themselves, officials said. Authorities in the Tihar Central Jail said the five – the sixth accused is a juvenile and lodged separately – were not even talking to one another or to others in their barracks.

    “They just sit and brood,” a jail source said. The “suicide watch”, officials said, is an alert that the five could possibly harm themselves. A senior officer has been told to monitor their activities.

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/delhi-gangrapemurder-accused-hatched-the-plan-after-seeing-the-braveheart/314095-3-244.

    The chargesheet in the gangrape and murder of the 23-year-old Delhi braveheart reveals that the accused had already planned to rape any girl who would have boarded the bus. The accused had hatched the sinister plan of first abducting any unsuspecting girl and then raping her when they were out for a joyride on the night of December 16.

    After the paramedical student and her male friend boarded the bus, the accused decided to rape her and later kill both of them to destroy the evidence. According to the sensational disclosures in the chargesheet if any other girl had been waiting for the bus at the Munirka bus stop, she would have met the same horrendous fate.

    Police sources say that the accused made a plan to gangrape the girl in moving bus after seeing her on the Munirka bus stop. According to the plan they lured the victim and her friend inside the bus by claiming that it would drop them near their home.

    Like

  113. BBC adds to the saga—interviews father and releases the name
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/india-gang-rape-victims-father-1521289

    Like

  114. Omg–more trauma to her family
    But one should applaud her familys stance
    The media is as always hungry for more !!

    Like

  115. Dr shaurya Says:

    दामिनि का नाम राष्ट्र को आज उसके पिता ने बता दिया..

    ज्योति सिंह पांडे..

    Like

    • Oh God! SHITHOLES like Raj Thackeray need to be gagged.

      I am a Northerner and have been living in Maharashtra for the past 3 yrs but I have hardly faced any ‘major’ discrimination. Most (though not all) Maharashtrians have been very kind to me. But such folks like Thackeray create unnecessary feud between people

      Like

  116. Important information needed to dispel the misgonistic myth that women are raped by strangers who were tempted by their clothing/ behaviour:

    “National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) data for 2011 tells us that 94.2% of all rapists are known to the victim, meaning they are friends, family or neighbours. That trend continues.

    Of 45,600 alleged rapists currently facing trial across India, more than 80% were known to the victim, Express reports.

    That men try to force themselves on the most vulnerable is evident if you slice the Delhi data: Nearly 60% of females raped were between two and 18 years old.”

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/Samar/Dark-silent-night/Article1-984155.aspx

    Like

  117. Even after all of the furore around the recent rape in Delhi, the police force continues to act in an utterly shameful manner:

    “When her daughter did not return till 10.00 p.m., a search was conducted. Policemen said the woman may have “eloped with a boyfriend”, and refused to take the matter seriously.

    The woman’s mother was told by her daughter’s fellow-workers that she had left office premises at 9.00pm on Friday.

    At 8.30pm Saturday, the mother received a call on her telephone, informing her that her daughter lay dead on the roadside at Sector 63, her body stripped of clothing.”

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/noida/Woman-found-stripped-dead/articleshow/17901602.cms

    Like

  118. NYKavi:

    Extremists of all hues are outdoing each other in their “post-rape” solutions.

    Like

    • Meanwhile Raj Thackeray claims Biharis are the problem and they do such things which is why he was right to go after them in his state.

      Like

    • And now joins Asaram Bapu with stupid statements:
      “Gangrape victim also responsible!”
      http://www.samachar.com/Gangraped-girl-equally-responsible-suggests-Asaram-Bapu-nbhvN4jdfid.html

      This one incident has done a “purdafaash” on all these moral purveyors of Indian society. Their moronic logic has been stripped bare beneath all those cloaks of dignity.

      Like

      • Dr shaurya Says:

        द्रौपदी भी चीखी थी,चिल्लाई थी जोर जोर से गिड़गिड़ाई थी।

        भला था कृष्ण थे!वरना पितामह से पति तक मौन थे।

        Like

      • “This one incident has done a “purdafaash” on all these moral purveyors of Indian society..”
        Asaram bapu himself is child molester…he was in news few years ago in some scandal…he lost all his credibility (if he had any). These unknown people are coming up with more and more outrageous statements to grab the headlines, get cheap publicity. The real sadhus are not like these..even today..in kali yug…in India. I know the good ones have picked up causes to save girl child from F.F, to save whale hunting…in their bhagvat kathas …etc…but that doesn’t make headline news.
        In matter how much bombing and unrest is going on in the country, the newspapers in Israel, publish positive stories on their front page…of someone growing fruit orchard in the desert…etc.
        One has to be very careful with media and what it publishes in India!

        Like

  119. Fundamentalists of both the religions, unenlightened self proclaimed leaders are showing their extreme prejudices and trying to fish in troubled waters.
    Meanwhile the 5 criminals are trying to wriggle out.

    Like

  120. Deepa Mehta-

    Like

  121. Anurag Kashyap’s piece-

    “Certainly, you can have a problem with what Honey Singh is singing (just for the record, the song “Balatkari” was written not by him but by the Pakistani band Zeest and I absolutely agree that those are horrendous lyrics). But that doesn’t mean you ban him. He has a right to exist and sing about what he wants to. We have the choice not to listen to the song or go to his concert. Singers like Honey Singh exist because there is a market for them — there are consumers who consume his content. He is the symptom of the problem, not its root.

    The issue we need to address is that of mindset. The issue is repression. Where does the song “C***t” come from? It comes from repression. It’s the lament of a boy who has been rejected by a girl and is expressing his feelings musically. It might be a crass song but crass also has the right to exist. If we don’t want the lyricist to write songs like these, we need to enter into a dialogue with him. We need to shame him. But we can’t ban him by saying that his lyrics are causing rapes. If you do that, then how are you different from the khap panchayats who insist that girls who wear skirts invite rape?

    “As a country, repression is one of our biggest problems. You can’t tackle repression with suppression. The fact is that boys and girls in our country don’t know how to interact with each other. When I was 16-17 years-old, I went to college in Varanasi and I remember I was so stunned to see girls in skirts that I couldn’t stop staring at a girl’s legs. A girl came up to me and completely shamed me by asking why I was behaving in that manner. The fact was that I had never seen girls in skirts. I came from a small town where girls were always covered up. Those three years that I spent in college, interacting with girls, changed my mindset.

    I made Gangs of Wasseypur and people were laughing at all the wrong places. Mostly at the gaalis. Where did that laughter come from? While watching a horror film, people laugh out of fear but in this case they were laughing out of repression. Saying the unspeakable got them laughing. That’s what happens with songs like “Balatkari”. ”

    http://m.indianexpress.com/news/%22all-atwitter%22/1054233/

    Like

    • ““As a country, repression is one of our biggest problems. You can’t tackle repression with suppression… I went to college in Varanasi and I remember I was so stunned to see girls in skirts that I couldn’t stop staring at a girl’s legs… The fact was that I had never seen girls in skirts. I came from a small town where girls were always covered up.”

      Staring is one thing, sexual harassment, assault and rape are a completely different thing. Should we also let the poor, sexually frustrated rapists of the hook just because they’ve got repressed desire within them? Should we sympathize with the man who gropes a woman in a tight t-shirt on the train, just because he has never seen a woman in fitted clothes before? Instead of sending them to jail, should we just let them all interact freely with women hoping that their mindsets will change? Following this logic, should we also pardon the thief who mugged an expensively dressed man, because he was from a less economically privileged background? Should we forgive the man who stole a shiny car, because he has only ever seen rickshaws and bicycles in the village in which he grew up?

      Kashyap’s reasoning is utterly misogynistic. The majority of rapes in India are committed by people who were close to the victim, not strangers who were provoked by unknown, sexy women of the kind they had never met before. More than half the rape victims in Delhi are minors.

      Men do not rape little girls and babies because they found them sexy and scantily clothed. Fathers and Uncles do not rape their daughters and nieces out of sexual provocation. Men do not batter, assault, torture and even murder their victims out of any sexual urge. Upper caste men in rural areas do not rape lower caste women for sex, they do it to re-iterate their power. Recently, there was even a case of a sexual worker, who offered her services willingly to two men, but was gang-raped by them and 8 of their friends whom they called to join them!

      The sooner people stop propagating this idiotic and harmful mindset that the primary cause of rape is unfulfilled sexual desire, the better it will be for us as a society.

      Not only does the false view that men are animals with uncontrollable, easily provoked sexual urges endanger women, it is also deeply degrading to the many decent men who are not barbaric perverts.

      Like

      • Ami, Kashyap I think is talking abt the Honey Singh issue and not rape.

        Like

        • Honey Singh was rapping about rape (who cares who wrote the song, the point is that Honey, who is a famous singer, was willing to perform and popularize such vile lyrics!). He’s a rapper who is educated in London, and regularly features sexy women in videos. Trying to make excuses for him by narrating an anecdote about how Kashyap would check out women when he was a sexually frustrated small town boy is beyond stupid.

          Also, if Owaisi can be legally prosecuted for giving speeches that instigate violence against Hindus (and rightly so), why shouldn’t Honey be punished for singing songs that glamourize violence against women?! The song lyrics blatantly promoted the idea of raping a woman!

          P.S>- If my tone sounds heated, it is purely because of Honey’s vile lyrics and the sorry excuses that Anurang is making for them, so please do not take it personally.

          Like

          • >if Owaisi can be legally prosecuted for giving speeches that instigate violence against Hindus (and rightly so), why shouldn’t Honey be punished for singing songs that glamourize violence against women?!

            Excellent comment.

            But I do think that when *some* men let out their desire (aroused elsewhere) on the one they are having sex with (wife or girlfriend), they sometimes end up saying the other’s name.
            At least that’s what I have sometimes read as jokes – and sometimes even as the truth, which then led to divorce or whatever.
            So I wouldn’t discard the various theories being expressed.

            IMO There is not just one reason. It’s a complicated mixture of several, plus of course the personal character of the rapist
            himself.

            Like

          • But Ami by the same notion very many filmmakers and singers in the west should also be persecuted. There is one thing having objectionable lyrics in a song and completely other to make an inciteful speech at a public platform. Ofcoure you are dead right that Kashyap should have never attached himself to Honey Singh in the first place.

            Like

          • >There is one thing having objectionable lyrics in a song and completely other to make an inciteful speech at a public platform.

            I agree. One is to entertain (how enjoyable and what fun to listen to such lyrics while sipping your cocktail), while the other is a completely different matter.

            >very many filmmakers and singers in the west should also be persecuted.

            They should be, but insulting women, being violent to them, objectifying them sexually, showing explicit rape on screen, is quite a world (ruled by men)wide phenomenon, and people watch it. So who will prosecute them?
            It will be considered regressive, and aren’t we afraid to be considered that?

            Like

    • This idiot man also doesn’t realise that this Honey fellow is trying to ape eminem who achieved fame and glory for his hateful anti female rapping.

      Like

    • I don’t agree with first couple of paras but I do agree that “skirt” para and menatlity of guys. I don’t agree with his shaming part. Most of the guys with such views would typically be aggresive if someone talks to them or even stares at them.

      Like

      • “There is one thing having objectionable lyrics in a song and completely other to make an inciteful speech at a public platform.”

        I’m not saying that people should be legally prosecuted for objectifying women in music videos, or depicting women regressively in cinema. I’m saying that singers and filmmakers should be punished when their films/ songs glorify rape and violence against women in a blatant, straight-forward manner, and IMO this is completely comparable to a communal hate speech.

        I don’t see how a public speech encouraging people to attack Hindus is any different from a public concert where the singer raps “I’ll beat you with my shoe after I **** you”, “You will scream and run but where can you go… I will take your life.” or “I am a rapist”.

        If he sang a song saying “I am a terrorist and I will kill Hindus” or “Muslims are all terrorists and deserve to be killed” then the song would be instantly banned. The very fact that we are debating whether or not these lyrics are actionable itself shows the degree to which violence against women has become acceptable in mainstream culture, and how desensitized the public has become to these things.

        “But Ami by the same notion very many filmmakers and singers in the west should also be persecuted.”

        Absolutely. Performers who blatantly encourage and glamourize violence against women should have their inflammatory content banned, regardless of nationality. This debate over freedom of speech vs. normalizing of misogyny through popular culture is by no means a uniquely Indian one, there have often been dialouges and controversies on this topic in the West as well.

        Like

        • ““But Ami by the same notion very many filmmakers and singers in the west should also be persecuted.”
          and all the hindi cinema of 70s and 80s

          Like

        • Haven’t heard this honey guy b4-on your insistence checked out the c…t track on youtube
          Have to agree with Oldgold, Amy –it is utter bullcrap n ridiculous.. Havin titilating elements is one thing but these dangerous ‘rapist’ tendencies is different…
          Anyhow…

          Like

  122. SP leader Abu Azmi (Ayesha Takia’s father-in-law) also chimes in with one of his stupid comment

    “The misogynistic rants from politicians about how women provoke rapes continue unabated.

    Today, it was the turn of Samjawadi Party leader Abu Azmi to weigh in. He blamed fashion and nudity for provoking sexual violence, and said that instead of “modern women” like actor-activist Shabana Azmi, the censor board for films should have rural women.

    He suggested laws be introduced to “stop young boys and girls from roaming around in the night.”

    Mr Azmi said that he supports Mohan Bhagwat, the leader of the right-wing RSS, who said earlier this week that rapes occur in westernized urban India, but not in rural “Bharat” where traditional values prevail.”

    http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/latest-misogynistic-outburst-is-courtesy-abu-azmi-samajwadi-party-314763

    Like

    • good news for you right 😉

      Like

    • “Today, it was the turn of Samjawadi Party leader Abu Azmi to weigh in. He blamed fashion and nudity for provoking sexual violence, and said that instead of “modern women” like actor-activist Shabana Azmi, the censor board for films should have rural women.”

      What the hell?! Isn’t his daughter-in-law part of the ‘modern’ face of the film industry?

      Like

  123. And now its Abu Azmi of the SJP with his pearls of wisdom:
    ” instead of “modern women” like actor-activist Shabana Azmi, the censor board for films should have rural women. ”

    http://www.samachar.com/Latest-misogynistic-outburst-is-courtesy-Abu-Azmi-Samajwadi-Party-nbirRpcidgg.html

    Like

  124. Everyone is getting defensive. Anurag Kashyap defending show business, modern westernised people their own philosophy, while the regressive elements take over.
    Anurag K is a stupid/evil man if he thinks this is the way repressed/suppressed emotions are let out. If this singer is only a symptom AK should also include the rapists in his theory. Idiot man (and I’m being kind calling AK that).

    If AK lovers on this blog don’t like my calling him names – ( I’m supressing a lot more names), please delete the comment.

    Like

  125. Can people on this blog explain what do they exactly mean when they keep harping that Talaash failed because one of the reasons was that it had no ‘ITEM’ number.

    What do they really mean?
    How does an item number help?

    Like

    • wasn’t kareena song sort of item number 🙂

      Like

      • Don’t ask me. 🙂
        I’m only repeating what is being said, and asking for further explanation about it’s power of increasing BO (which effected Talaash, oh, so much).

        Like

    • Item numbers draw single screen audiences. As simple as that. And the proper ‘itemgirl’ further boosts the cash registers, eg Katrina.
      Now, for purposes of addressing the item-number issue in this post, IMO, it does have an effect on titillating some to the extent that they would equate every girl they see as some sort of ‘itemgirl’ who will offer herself to their sexual advances. Bwood cannot push this fact under the rug. But, the solution to ths issue is not to have some Saudi style society where veiled women cant go out unless accompanied by male relatives. The solution is to educate men, to promote healthy interaction between the sexes in their formative years (12-16), rather than to ban co-education as suggested by some extremists.

      Like

      • >is not to have some Saudi style society where veiled women cant go out unless accompanied by male relatives.

        Is that the *only* other alternative you see?

        >The solution is to educate men, to promote healthy interaction between the sexes in their formative years (12-16),

        That’s an innocent/naive comment.
        Rapists are not rapists because they were not educated against that, just as murderers are not murderers because they weren’t educated against that.

        Like

        • Thats the type of alternative being prescribed by sections of society (both Hindu and Muslim) in India.
          As long as there are 2 sexes, with one more physically dominant, rape will not stop on this earth. Crime cannot be stopped, it can only be limited through punishment.
          When individuals think that girls wearing jeans/skirts are “morally loose” and asking for it, then certainly those individusals need some learning. Similarly, even the Ohio rapists thought that the drunk female asked for it before raping her. Don’t you think these sets of individuals need to be educated about women’s rights/feelings/thoughts etc? In both cases, the system has also played a role, by letting people get away with it in the past.

          Maybe there really are two parallel societies, ie one of India and one of Bharat. In India, women are educated, fearless and enjoying freedom. In Bharat, women are cloaked in fear, illiteracy and subjugated to second class citizenship. When the Bharatiya woman steps into India, she is uplifted by a system that lets her nourish her strengths and potential. However, when the Indian woman steps into Bharat, she goes through the Delhi ordeal.

          Like

      • >Item numbers draw single screen audiences.

        That’s downright prejudice.
        People with less money are more prone to get titillated by the chiknapan of chameli, or the jawani of Sheela, or not get effected by the badnami of Munni, while they gyrate around surrounded by a cluster of leering men, while she thrusta around her hips and breasts – while those who can afford the ticket of a much higher price concentrate on their popcorn or sandwich.
        What an idea.

        Like

        • Reading the comments of NYkavi these past couple of days , methinks his account has been hacked …

          Like

        • Bwood is the only source of entertainment for a vast section of society, especially those in the lower classes. It is Broadway on the big screen. Off course, what you suggest is entirely true. Those with the means, can gyrate in a disco, whereas those with only the means to buy a movie ticket enjoy the ‘ambience’ within a single screen. Have you ever experienced that ‘ambience’ in a single screen when they see Munni, Chameli or Sheila? The throwing of coins on the screen, the rush of dancing men to the front? Those 5 mins of the itemsong are their Discotheque experience. God save the poor woman who gets caught in that melee.
          And yes, if you deny them those 5 mins of discotime, they will not bother spending Rs50 to go watch your movie.

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          • So you think it’s ALL about the disco dancing? What more can one say.

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          • It is all about the cost of access to entertainment. A guy with money can do this:

            A guy without money to throw can only go see an item number at his local single screen, and throw some coins at the screen while doing so. Btw, that above clip is from Pakistan. They label people who engage in such activities as Kanjars. Magar jab note haath mein hote hain to mullah bhi kanjar ban jaata hai.
            My wider point is this: An item number is the only escapist route for men who cannot afford to engage in any activity where they can be around live dancing women. Live costs more, the movie costs less.

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          • thanx nykavi–for all this useful info …
            “Have you ever experienced that ‘ambience’ in a single screen when they see Munni, Chameli or Sheila? The throwing of coins on the screen, the rush of dancing men to the front? Those 5 mins of the itemsong are their Discotheque experience. God save the poor woman who gets caught in that melee.”
            u should write screenplays nykavi –well done 🙂

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  126. I’m sure you got what I mean, but have no answer so are taking refuge in this answer. The answer to this might bring out some facts.

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    • OK so my comment has been deleted. It was very difficult to answer that honestly isn’t it?

      We love our hypocritical world.

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      • there is no ulterior motive 🙂

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      • “OK so my comment has been deleted. It was very difficult to answer that honestly isn’t it?”
        Hmm that’s not done-poor Oldgolds comments shouldnt be deleted
        And that too in this thread –suppression of woman voice should stop …lol

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  127. Dr shaurya Says:

    जम्मू में हिंदुस्तानी सीमा में घुस कर हमारे दो सेना के जवानों का गला काट दिया गया जिसमे एक शहीद सैनिक का गला पाकिस्तानी सैनिक अपने साथ ले गए साथ ही ७ चौकियोपर पाकिस्तान की तरफ से भरी गोलीबारी की जा रही है
    भारत सरकार का बयान–हम कड़ा विरोध दर्ज कराएँगे, पाकिस्तान सीज फायर को माने
    “अमन की आशा” “आगाज़-ए-दोस्ती” “भारत-पाकिस्तान क्रिकेट मैच” शायदअपने अंजाम तक पहुच चुके हैं हमारे दो जवानों की बलि चढ़ चुकी है

    हम पूछना चाहते हैं ऐ दोस्तों की कब तक हम अपनी सेज अपने जवानों के खून पर सजाते रहेंगे
    गर दुश्मनों के सर काटने की हिम्मत नहीं है हिंदुस्तानी बुद्धिजीवियों की जमात में तो कमसे कम अपने नौजवानों के शहीदी का हिसाब देने की हिम्मत तो रखे

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    • Too academic but the topic is well analyzed.

      The thing boils down to criminality and looking at women as lesser beings. And the ineffective police.

      Abu Azmi and his son have different views. Traditional versus modern.

      Crack the whip. And punish the guilty. That will save lives.

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  128. “A girl suffered 90 per cent burn injuries after allegedly being set on fire by a man at Loharra village in Hathras district on Tuesday. The only fault of the girl was that she objected to pestering by the man. While the victim is said to be battling for life in a hospital associated with the medical college affiliated to Aligarh Muslim University, the police have not taken any action against the accused so far.”

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/Girl-set-on-fire-for-resisting-eve-teasing-in-Uttar-Pradesh/articleshow/17843394.cms

    Even more than rape, what is really disturbing is the amount of incredibly brutal crimes against women that happen on a daily basis in India: every day you hear of a story of a woman who rejected a man’s advances and had to suffer by having acid thrown on her face, being stabbed or being set ablaze. And yet the police never seem to care!

    Yesterday there was a story about a man who stabbed a 65-year-old woman several times over, then raped and stabbed her pregnant daughter-in-law. And the judges decided that this wasn’t a ‘rarest of rare’ case deserving of the death sentence! There is no saving this country…

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  129. Ek aur cartoon-
    Until today I have not seen a single incident or example of rape with a respected lady,” Sharma said in an interview at a cafe outside the Supreme Court in India’s capital. “Even an underworld don would not like to touch a girl with respect.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-09/delhi-rape-accused-to-plead-not-guilty-lawyer-says.html

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    • tonymontana Says:

      yeah right.. i guess 3- and 4-year olds are not “respected ladies” too!

      these guys need something sharp and severe shoved up their arses.. an umbrella should do.. insert first and then press the button

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  130. what would you say on the Amitabh Bachcah’s lines at 2.22-

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    • Zeenat Amaan was smoking hot, specially in Hai hai yeh majboori, Hum tumhe chatey hain aisey, Abdullha song, Dostana and Dharam Veer !!

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      • “Zeenat Amaan was smoking hot, specially in Hai hai yeh majboori, Hum “…..
        should you post that message on this thread though? Kuch logo ki bhavnavo ko hurt hota hai….

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        • This only proves the point, doesn’ it?
          That men will always have such thoughts when they see a woman dressed like this, even if they have no further one sided intentions….but there ARE men who definitely have one sided intentions.

          Regarding the dress code – Not sure if it was Lin Yutang or Confucius who said it;
          All women’s dresses are merely variations on the eternal struggle between the admitted desire to dress and the unadmitted desire to undress.

          There’s no getting away from the fact – that men do think like this regarding the way a woman dresses.

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          • well…you could be fully clothed in sari, head to toe and men could still be ‘undressing’ you. In muslim countries, when men see hint of ankle in a buqua clad women the get “desires”. So really it is not in the “dress”

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          • It’s not me saying anything. I’m just giving existing examples of the way men think.

            Really? Who told you that men get ‘desires’ when they look at the ankle of a woman?

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          • >you could be fully clothed in sari, head to toe and men could still be ‘undressing’ you.

            How much easier for him when she’s all exposed.

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          • “Regarding the dress code – Not sure if it was Lin Yutang or Confucius who said it;
            All women’s dresses are merely variations on the eternal struggle between the admitted desire to dress and the unadmitted desire to undress.”
            Wow Oldgold –whatta quote

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          • “How much easier for him when she’s all exposed…”
            you can turn/twist the whole arguement on its head OG. When a small child is abused, even if he/she is butt naked, the onus of abuse is NOT on the child but on the abuser. Same goes with the rapist. End of story. There is no justification. If not clothes, the rapist would suggest that “she was laughing…and thus signaling him”…it could be any such stupid justification. The crime lies with the criminal…yeh toh ulta chor kutwal ko datey wali baat kar rahe ho aap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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          • “All women’s dresses are merely variations on the eternal struggle between the admitted desire to dress and the unadmitted desire to undress.”
            There are some such ‘theories’ on why women wear lipstick as well. 😦

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          • I agree- blaming the woman for her being ‘all exposed’ is disgusting. Again- I want to reiterate what I said earlier:

            The overwhelming majority of rapists are men who are known to their victims (including relatives) NOT random strangers who were attracted to ‘exposed’ women.

            Close to half the rape victims in India are minors, including ery young children and babies

            Rapes are often accompanied by brutalization and violence of all kinds- can minimal clothing ‘provoke’ men to murder women as well?

            Rapes can carry ulterior motivations like caste dominance etc that have nothing to do with sexual desire

            The belief that minimal clothing provokes rape is nothing but a misogynistic MYTH. Even if a woman’s dressing causes men to entertain sexual ideas about her,a man thinking about a woman sexually is VERY different from a man forcing himself on a woman sexually

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          • >you can turn/twist the whole arguement on its head OG. When a small child is abused, even if he/she is butt naked, the onus of abuse is NOT on the child but on the abuser.

            Are you saying that I am saying the child is to be blamed? What are you thinking?
            The biggest mistake everyone is doing is to think it all goes under ‘one heading’.
            It doesn’t. There are peaedophiles, who would prefer a child, there are rapists of all kinds, one who will torture, and those who will make a sport of it by ganging together.
            The child abusers are a whole type altogether.

            Of course **any** kind of abuse has to be coupled with **opportunity** as well, which plays the biggest role in this crime IMO.

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          • Is there some kind of a shadyantar here or the understanding is weak?

            We were discussing THE WAY MEN THINK WHEN THEY SEE A SEXILY DRESSED WOM AN!!!!
            This was because of Rocky’s comment.
            To turn this into my thought that I’m blaming the victim and not the rapist is the height of stupidity.

            Then you bring ‘child abuse’ in your discussion when we are clearly talking of adult females and the attitude of men to their dress.

            What are you up to? What’s your game?
            None of you sound like women discussing this issue, anyway.
            I had stayed away from this discussion because I know the ways around here. I made a mistake in joining in.

            So carry on with your pseudo hypocritical discussions.

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          • “There are peaedophiles, who would prefer a child, there are rapists of all kinds, one who will torture, and those who will make a sport of it by ganging together.”

            What does it matter what ‘kind’ the rapist is? Regardless of whether he is raping alone or in a gang, whether he is raping a child or a woman, isn’t his crime a henious and inexcusable one? Or do you think that as long as the victim is an adult and the rape is not a gang-rape, we should blame the victim for provoking the poor, innocent rapist?

            “Of course **any** kind of abuse has to be coupled with **opportunity** as well, which plays the biggest role in this crime IMO.”

            What exactly is an ‘opportunity’? Because any woman who is not accompanied by an armed bodyguard at all times is vulnerable to rape and molestation. Like I said earlier, around 90% of rapists in India are known to the victim. Sexual harassment and rape by a family member is not an uncommon occurence, with rapes by fathers, uncles and domestic staff being reported everyday, so even if a woman never leaves her home, a rapist can still have the ‘opportunity’ to rape her.

            It is not opportunity but the fear and certainty of punishment that plays the biggest role in crime IMO. The fact that exactly one out of 650 rape cases in Delhi has ended in a conviction last year, and that politcians and policemen are extremely willing to blame the victim and not take rape complaints seriously, is FAR more of a ‘provocation’ and cause for the rising levels of crime against women that anything a victim can wear or do.

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          • Ignore my previous comment, I posted it before reading this comment.

            “We were discussing THE WAY MEN THINK WHEN THEY SEE A SEXILY DRESSED WOM AN!!!!
            This was because of Rocky’s comment.
            To turn this into my thought that I’m blaming the victim and not the rapist is the height of stupidity.”

            It’s not at all the height of stupidity considering that Rocky’s comment was in response to an article about a lawyer blaming the ‘respectability’ of rape victims, and this entire thread deals with the issue of rape in India. Nevertheless, I did misinterpret what you said, so I apologize.

            “Then you bring ‘child abuse’ in your discussion when we are clearly talking of adult females and the attitude of men to their dress.”

            No we were talking about rape and the social attitudes towards rape victims, *you* were the only one who was discussing the attitude of men towards dress. We brought in the child example because we thought that you were blaming the victim, and we wanted to demonstrate that it is not the victim’s fault. Also, earlier in this very thread there was discussion about a BJP minister who wanted to ban skirts for school children in order to bring down rape. So our comments were very much in keeping with the discussion on this thread. It’s not our fault if you randomly start discussing a different topic and then get offended when we do not realize that you weren’t repsonding to the earlier comments on the thread!

            “None of you sound like women discussing this issue, anyway.”

            LOL! And what exactly must one say to ‘sound like a woman’?

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          • Here comes another stupid comment from so called Ami.
            When you can’t understand a comment it’s better to keep quiet instead of showing your stupidity.

            My mentioning of the differences was to SHOW THAT THERE IS NOT JUST ONE REASON that you can latch on to. There is a mixture of reasons for which these different crimes are done.

            Do you want ALL THE CREDIT of knowing who to blame and for what reason the crime is committed?

            TAKE IT!!!

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          • Oldgold, your comments are getting ridiculous and hysterical. The next time you do not want to be misinterpreted as blaming rape victims, do not comment about women who are ‘all exposed’ on a thread about rape, in a discussion about victim-blaming without clarifying exactly what you are talking about.

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          • sorry..I was out and just got back and have eye-balled this exchange which is bordering on insanity. To have a discussion where even a slight blame goes to victim for whatever the reason (exposure; nazar kaa isara;she yawned;she sneezed) used by the rapist/criminal is not permissible. There are naked women in jhopadpattis who bath openly or go toilet openly. People are not ‘exposed’ only in bars/nightclubs are they?. It doesn’t give license to anyone to perform heinous acts or justify it. Already 2 of the rapist are pleading not-quilty. I find the thought reprehensible, forget having a ‘discussion’ on it.
            P.S. “Di” could be Dilshad/Divya/Diana/Dileep…but whats up with Oldgold…maybe someone from old age home? Why below belt name calling and all?
            P.S1: Rocky shouldn’t talk about his thoughts on zeenat in a particular song on this thread or you shouldn’t bring Talaash and discussion on lack of item number in this thread. I personally find that a bit disconcerting and insult to memory of the departed soul: Jyoti Pandey.

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        • Ami, you were NOT part of this discussion.
          It was Di (or whatever the name is). You just self importantly interefered and took the comments to where you wanted to.

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          • C’mon gals/ladies –relax –lemme stop this cat fight..
            Some interesting points from all of u..
            And everyone has a right to express their views…cheer up …

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          • LOL! So now you have been reduced to blaming me for ‘self importantly’ joining your super-private discussion with Di?! I was very much part of the discussion with Rocky and Satyam, to which you responded.

            In any case, I will now stop responding to your hysterics, but feel free to continue ranting and raving to yourself. So far you’ve accused me of stupidity, hypocrisy, pompousity, pretending to be a woman and being self important and self serving, lets see what other insults you can come up with next.

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          • Oldgold & Ami – There is no point fighting.

            ps – I am sorry comments have been suspended for some time.

            ps1 – Reopened.

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          • -Having holier than thou attitude,
            – Using a lie to suit you (go back pu the thread and see that my response was to Di’s onjection to Rocky’s comment, and my reponse on men and their thoughts when a woman dresses scantily and looks ‘hot’.
            -self righteous
            -a know all
            *yawn* too many to list out at this late hour. Good Night.

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        • I don’t comment for your benefit.
          Next time keep your underdeveloped understanding for somebody esle’s comments.
          Your so called responses are hypocritical, self servicing, and pompous.
          Above all stay OUT of an ongoing discussion when you don’t know where it started. Do not expose yourself as stupid. Otherwise you’ll have to bear my hysterics.
          Yes, ‘all exposed’ does titillate men.

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          • And posing as a woman here dooesn’t mean you really know what they think.

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          • –oh maan–action packed girl power …
            Lemme cool u down …take a deep breath lol

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          • “ps – I am sorry comments have been suspended for some time.
            ps1 – Reopened.”
            Haha munna– btw must confess– Somewhat enjoyed getting surrounded in this gruelling catfight..
            Ps: Oldgold was in top form—btw even Amy is a guy? lol
            Am taking Oldgold&Amy elsewhere to carry this on — good nite 🙂

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        • omrocky786 Says:

          Di I agree my above comment was probably not in the right spirit for this particular thread,( although I think it is perfectly fine on other threads as we don’t want to talibanized or ShivSenaized…..

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