Tevar, PK (ongoing), the rest of the box office

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217 Responses to “Tevar, PK (ongoing), the rest of the box office”

  1. the earlier box office thread has been shut down, 95% of the political comments have been deleted. I’ve warned people about this many times. There were three pages of political debates, not even strictly political ones in many cases. I’ll say this again, if people don’t have any self-control in this matter they should desist from starting such subjects or getting involved with them. I would hate to go down the moderation route.

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    • very good satyam

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    • It is not good to hate. Let it blow out of your system.
      Love all
      Peace

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      • keep on deleting things in hope you get solace rather i would advise to not mix your 1000 word of political verbose in between the comments as gospel and expect no counterview…it will continue if you start….

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    • Thanks – I was hoping you would do that. Might be easier if you banned some people but I guess this is the next best thing 😉

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      • Those who attacked the new paper office were also trying to “delete”. It is one and the same thought. Delete comment. Delete people. 😦

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      • “banned some people” who like Swami V?!?!? WOW

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        • I think you’re reading things into my comment that weren’t there. My issue isn’t with people taking a certain political stand, it is rather the flooding of threads with multiple posts saying the same thing, or posting heaps of links, thereby cluttering up the place.

          Perhaps because of my name you are assuming I have certain views, but i actually belong to a minority community (within Islam) and would probably surprise you with my political stance. But I prefer to stick to movies here 🙂

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          • Much love to you too Salim.
            With a name like that (MeA hero), who can take panga 🙂
            Delete away the comments. No issues here.

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    • Satyam, I’m trying to add my latest set of films into this reply but it’s not going through. Is it going to moderation as it’s a long post? Or some other problem?

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  2. PK Sets All Time Records In ALL Circuits In India
    Monday 12 January 2015 14.00 IST
    Box Office India Trade Network

    PK after its third week business has set new all time records as far as nett collections go in every circuit in India. The distributor share will eventually go and be the highest in every circuit.

    It did look initially after a week that it may not set records in Places like Bihar, Tamil Nadu / Kerala and Orissa but it has held very strong in these places tos et new records. The trending has been fantastic in Bihar and Tamil / Nadu Kerala possibly as it was making up ground due to opening week not being as strong as other circuits.

    The film has crossed the 100 crore nett benchmark in Mumbai, 30 crore nett benchmark in East Punjab and 20 crore nett benchmark in Nizam /Andhra and Mysore. Other big benchmarks that it will hit is 65 crore nett in Delhi/UP and 10 crore nett in Tamil Nadu / Kerala.

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  3. PK At 327 Crore Nett After Fourth Weekend
    Monday 12 January 2015 11.00 IST
    Box Office India Trade Network

    PK has grossed around 327 crore nett after its fourth weekend. The film grossed around 8.25 crore nett in its fourt weekend. The fourth weekend collections are as follows.

    Friday – 1,75,00,000
    Saturday- 2,75,00,000
    Sunday – 3,75,00,000 (Early Estimate)

    Total – 8,25,00,000

    The collections are down around 70% from last week but still its the second highest fourth weekend ever after 3 Idiots.

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  4. Tevar First Weekend Business
    Monday 12 January 2015 11.00 IST
    Box Office India Trade Network

    Tevar could not make much of an impact as it grossed around 21.25 crore nett in its first weekend. The first weekend collections are as follows.

    Friday – 6,80,00,000
    Saturday- 6,70,00,000
    Sunday – 7,75,00,000 (Early Estimate)

    Total – 21,25,00,000

    The film managed an average start at some places but the trnding was not good as the film failed to grow on Saturday and the growth on Sunday was not what it should be.

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  5. AamirsFan Says:

    Weekend Report: ‘Taken 3’ Scores Second-Highest January Opening Ever

    Taken 3’s $40.4 million debut is off 18 percent from Taken 2’s $49 million start; when considering how poorly that movie was received, that’s actually a really good hold. It’s well above star Liam Neeson’s Non-Stop ($28.9 million), and is also a bit higher than Lone Survivor, which opened to $37.8 million on this same weekend last year. In fact, Taken 3 wound up with the second-highest January opening ever behind last year’s Ride Along (though it will likely fall to number three when actual numbers report on Monday).

    Fox is reporting that the audience was 54 percent male and 65 percent over the age of 25. The movie received a “B+” CinemaScore, which is identical to Taken 2’s grade. If Taken 3 falls off at the same rate, it will close with over $110 million.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3997&p=.htm

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    • AamirsFan Says:

      did not think Taken 3 would open this strongly..it looked so lame in the trailer. I love Liam Neeson but can’t blame him for taking the paycheck. lol. The people love him in this role…the fact that he made this story line into a franchise is amazing.

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      • yeah very strong opening though it will probably collapse given the reviews and the audience reaction.

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      • Despite the reviews I ventured in to watch Taken 3. Must say I was glad I did. It’s a fun film and never bores. Personally I preferred it to the first two films also.

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  6. Umesh Shukla whose film OMG Oh My God bears uncanny resemblances to PK, defends PKBy Subhash K. Jha, Jan 9, 2015 – 10:54 IST

    PK is being compared with your film OMG Oh My God. Both seem to have got themselves into trouble with right-wing organizations?
    Why trouble filmmakers who are trying to do something out of the box? We’re trying to make good cinema.And it’s not as if audiences have objected to OMG Oh My God or PK. Why not protest against films that glorify goondaism? We aren’t forcing anyone to watch OMG or PK. Jiskodekhnahaidekhe,nahindekhnahainahindekhe.There should be no attempt to stop a film once it is passed by the censor board.

    Your film which also attacked organized religion,didn’t get attacked so vehemently?
    They had protested against my film.In Jalandhar they had burnt posters and vandalized theatres. But not on this level. The protests against PK are far more vehement.

    When in fact PK puts its points forward far more gently than your film?
    That’s Raj Kumar Hirani’s style. He makes feelgood films. His style is very different from mine.RajuHirani,(writer) Abhijat Joshi and Aamir Khan are among my favourite people in cinema.I hate to see them targeted in this way.

    There are many points of similarity between Oh My God and PK?
    Yes, there are similarities between PK and my film. It’s the genre. You can’t change the basic idea. If you make a love story, ‘I love you’ is bound to show up somewhere. Why such a hue and cry over the similarities? Oh My God came first. To remove the similar plot points from PK was very difficult.If I was in their place I wouldn’t have known what to do.They’ve done such a fine job of giving a new twist to the theme.

    Your Gujarati play Kanjilal Versus Kanjilal about organized religion has been running for years?
    That’s rightand no one has objected. The play and the film OMG aren’t anti-religion. They’re against wrong religious practices.We are against some aspects of organized religion.Many religious sectors including the BrahmaKumaris and the RadhaSaomis appreciated our film Oh My God. They didn’t feel threatened by the film.We had screened Oh My God for Shankaracharya before release. They had no issues with the film.

    But many Hindu organizations have protested against PK?
    I wonder why people have so many issues with PK! I don’t understand it. Why don’t the protesters sit and talk with RajuHirani and the PK team?And it isn’t as if we’re only against commercialization of Hinduism. In OMG we had asked why place a chaadar on a dargah, why not on a poor homeless person?

    Makes sense…
    Whether the Hindu religion or any other, the wrong aspects must be condemned. I get so many messages accusing me of being anti-religion.They are even making videos against us. ISKCON has made an anti-OMG film.

    What is that?
    They have taken all the characters from my film and turned the arguments in their own favour. If they wanted to present their own viewpoint why didn’t they make their own film? Why copy my characters with the same names as in my film?They’ve even used the music from my play and film. This is outrageous!

    ISKCON is a multi-million conglomerate?
    I guess where there is big money involved in religion, there is a feeling of insecurity when their dogma is questioned.But somewhere we must have done something right to awaken so much protest against OMG and PK.We need more films that challenge the sacred cows.

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    • 1) I like VVC quite a bit –people misunderstand him –yup the ‘director’ in him gets carried away but he’s the fountain that’s produced talents like hirani, Shankar ehsaan loy, Sanjay Bhansali, vidya balan etc.
      His dictum is simple–follow your gut, make & back good films and follow good talented people not trends/shortcuts
      It’s good to see him gaining financially as well..

      2) The above link reminded me of a special screening (in two parts) I watched at unexpected quarters somewhere much after it’s release
      Watched it with two ‘friends’ –both of whom didn’t know anything about the language or indian films …
      But all three of us know cinema (esp yours truly lol)

      At the end of part one–
      We didn’t say a word to each other…
      There was a smile on my face

      I knew I had watched
      In world cinema
      one of the best films of ALL time…

      THIS gets the wholehearted unambiguous unadulterated stamp of apex…

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  7. Tevar will end up with a meager 40 crore nett. Enough of stupidity launda stuff i.e. sheer nonsensical. Glad Arjun K will fail with this one.

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  8. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    Film is looking at big losses for distributors (Eros) and Sub-Distributors as they have paid big prices for this Arjun Kapoor-Sonakshi starrer. With the costs involved in the film it needed around 75 cr mark to reach safety but it looks impossible to reach that mark even a 50 cr lifetime looks difficult at this point for the film.

    http://www.talkingmoviez.com/tevar-1st-monday-4th-day-box-office-collections/

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  9. Saurabh, saw the Mariyam Mukku trailer you put up in the other post. Looks really good- hoping it turns out well. Incidentally this Sify list of upcoming movies has quite a few that look promising including an Ann Augustine movie with Lal Jose.
    http://www.sify.com/movies/the-10-most-eagerly-awaited-mollywood-films-in-2015-imagegallery-malayalam-pbmnRvgdaeefh.html

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  10. Watched good old Mackenna’s gold. What a golden movie!

    Watched Gravity again and again. What a performance by the lead actress!

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  11. PK Sets All Time Records In ALL Circuits In India

    PK after its third week business has set new all time records as far as nett collections go in every circuit in India. The distributor share will eventually go and be the highest in every circuit.

    It did look initially after a week that it may not set records in Places like Bihar, Tamil Nadu / Kerala and Orissa but it has held very strong in these places tos et new records. The trending has been fantastic in Bihar and Tamil / Nadu Kerala possibly as it was making up ground due to opening week not being as strong as other circuits.

    The film has crossed the 100 crore nett benchmark in Mumbai, 30 crore nett benchmark in East Punjab and 20 crore nett benchmark in Nizam /Andhra and Mysore. Other big benchmarks that it will hit is 65 crore nett in Delhi/UP and 10 crore nett in Tamil Nadu / Kerala.

    http://www.boxofficeindia.com/Details/art_detail/pksetsalltimerecordsinallcircuitsinindia#.VLS5VCwREqE

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  12. incessantranter Says:

    Satyam Uttama villain trailer is out [edited]

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  13. Distributors deny Vijay’s involvement in ‘Lingaa’ loss fiasco
    By MOVIEBUZZ
    Source : SIFY
    Last Updated: Tue, Jan 13, 2015 09:27 hrs1 Comment

    After Rockline Venkatesh’s outburst, the distributors met the press yesterday and clarified certain things about their stand. Singaravelan, the Trichy-Tanjore area distributor said “I never abused Rajinikanth in my statement and if there is one word which hurt Rajinikanth then it would be question ‘Whether Rajini’s birthday is a National holiday to release Lingaa’ and I’m openly apologizing for it, the statement came out of frustration”.

    When the reporters asked whether the distributors are acting as per the advice of actor Vijay to defame Rajinikanth? The distributors denied and said “We mentioned Vijay’s Kaththi because it is the big film of 2014 and there is no motive behind it”.

    The distributors added “The same Vendhar Movies Siva got Rs 5 crores as compensation from Vijay for Thalaivaa’s loss, Ajith did Billa in order to settle the losses causes by Red and Anjaan losses are also settled. Asking a compensation from a top hero film is not new to Tamil cinema”.

    Distributors also revealed that Vendhar Movies has recently invited all of them to their office and asked to write an apology letter so that they can move forward for compensation but the distributors refused to submit their apology letter as they feel that they have not commited any crime.

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    • I find this whole thing rather bizarre. Unless a producer willingly is producing a bad film (and that’s an interesting conversation but nothing can be proven…objectively one would have to say no), legally what right do the distributors have? I understand it’s a good stand to take for producers to subsidy any losses and is a very nice gesture and also helps for future negotiations, but really the crux of the problem is distributors are paying way over the odds in the first place. They can’t really “blame” anyone except themselves. They are perfectly alright to ask for compensation, but find it rather dishonest to blame the producer or actor here. Do they return some of the profit on that actor when they make loads of money?
      Ideally they should be dropping the price, like I suspect some of the tv channels are starting to do.

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      • Is it only Tamil film distributors ask for compensation? So far I have yet to hear hindi or others doing so,
        As top heroes take the highest part of the cake, they are being targetted, it seems.
        If the top heroes cut their fees and ask for part in profits or if the heroes take up distribution of their films, some losses can be minimised.
        We have seen distributors and Producers turning into beggars in some cases while the heroes remain mostly unaffected. The only way top heroes maybe affected is their market value may dip after a flop.

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        • Re: “Is it only Tamil film distributors ask for compensation? So far I have yet to hear hindi or others doing so…”

          I don’t know about these days, but back in the 1980s and 1990s it was quite common for distributors to get some reimbursement from producers for losses on major films…

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  14. ‘I’ Movie Release: Vikram Starrer Set for Mega Opening, Advance Booking Gets Fantastic Response
    By Sangeetha Seshagiri January 12, 2015 10:49 IST

    Vikram-Amy Jackson starrer “I” is all set for a massive release worldwide on 14 January. The blockbuster will be having a record release in Kerala, which is one of the key markets for Tamil films.

    It will be releasing in 232 screens in the state. “#I biggest ever release on Jan 14, for any language film in Kerala through Global United Media – 232 screens!,” tweeted entertainment industry tracker Sreedhar Pillai. “I” will reportedly have early morning shows, starting from 5.30 a.m., in nearly 30 screens in Kerala.
    In Tamil Nadu, “I” is expected to be released in about 400 screens, considering that there are few other films slated for Pongal release. The Vikram-starrer will be getting big screens in the state.

    The film is expected to set new benchmarks in the United States, where it is slated to have a huge release. Reports suggest that “I” will be releasing in more than 400 screens including the Tamil, Telugu and Hindi versions.

    The romantic thriller is also expected to have big release in other key markets like Andhra, Telangana , Karnataka, UK , Australia and Malaysia.
    The Hindi version of the film will reportedly be releasing on 16 January with select paid premiere shows on 15 January.
    Advance booking for “I” has commenced in several theatres and has been getting mind-blowing response. The film is likely to take big openings on the first day of its release. Expectations on “I” are huge as Shankar and Vikram have teamed up for the second time.

    The film’s first-look teaser, trailer and the songs have generated a lot of excitement around it. Vikram and Shankar’s star power and advance bookings are expected to enable the film do fantastic business on the opening day.

    The long Pongal festival season is likely to boost the film’s collections if it manages to impress the audience with its content.

    While the Tamil version of “I” will be facing some competition from Vishal’s “Aambala,” the Telugu version might have to battle it out with Pawan Kalyan-Venkatesh’s “Gopala Gopala,” which has already hit the screens and is doing good business at the box office.
    The Hindi version of the film will also not enjoy a solo run as a few Bollywood releases including Bipasha Basu’s “Alone” are slated to hit the screens.

    “I” has reportedly got a “U/A” certificate from the censor board. As a result, the Tamil version of the film will not be entitled to tax exemption. “Shankar’s #I Releasing with ‘U/A’ in Tamil too thus ruling out Tax Exemption (30%ET) chances in TN,” tweeted Andhraboxoffice.

    The film needs to perform exceptionally well at the box office to make profit.

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  15. Vikram betting on I’s success with Pongal release
    UDHAV NAIG

    Vikram has spent nearly three years for this film, where he would appear in four looks: a body builder, beast, model, and a hunchback

    With the uncertainty lifted over the release of director Shankar’s I , starring actor Vikram, the focus has shifted to the film, which is expected to get a massive release countrywide.

    Vikram has spent nearly three years for this film, where he would appear in four looks: a body builder, beast, model, and a hunchback. Coming at the back of his poor run at the box office, the actor seems to be betting high on I .

    The actor is confident that the film will break the language barrier and be talked about throughout the country. “This is a film which will be appreciated by pan-Indian audience. I could sense it even when I was doing the film,” he said talking to journalists at a luxury hotel here on Monday.

    Speaking of his second collaboration with filmmaker Shankar, he says: “Anniyan was fairly an uncomplicated, linear film while ‘I’ is not. Shankar can make a film completely out of what we think is his comfort zone. Working with him for the second time, I learned that his yearning for perfection hasn’t waned. It is not about how much money he is given to make a film. It is about what a filmmaker can do. It is not about thinking of 200 elephants instead of 20. It is about thinking out of box.”

    Vikram was unwilling to say too much about what the film is about, except that he plays the role of a body builder and the film is about what happens to him. “The plot is the hero of the film.” However, he revealed how he difficult it was to prepare himself for each of his roles. “I had to follow a tough regimen to transform myself into all of these roles,” he says.

    For instance, he spoke about a specific scene in which he had to strike bodybuilding poses. “Posing is a tough art. Fifteen minutes of posing onstage is tough and drains all the energy. Since it was for a scene, it had to be done again and again. I ate small quantities of chicken and rice, drank thick black coffee. I pulled every muscle in my body,” he says.

    Next, he had to become a model for which he had to become slim and look dashing. “I had to lose all my fat and look slim, which meant that I had to work out regularly as I could easily put on fat around my waist. At the same, I also had to look fresh and good,” he says.

    Apart from this, he reduced his body weight to 56 kg, losing fat drastically and had to put on prosthetic make up for close to five hours. “Five hours for beast character. We shot for the entire day. I have shot for 17 hours. During the course of the filming, I developed severe rashes prompting even actor Santhanam to mistake it for make-up,” he says.

    Did he ever feel that he was needlessly pushing himself so hard? “Commercial cinema has changed today. Commercial films also require a good dose of realism. ‘I’ is a step in that direction.”

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    • more than vikram its shankar’s project that makes other curios

      trailor looks different with a handsome and young body builder vikram turned into ugly and the girl barely recognized him…looks more of a revenge drama.. with all those bees in trailor and swollen face of ugly vikram gives lot away

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  16. Happy Pongal, Lohri, Makar Sankranti.

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  17. in north happy lohri to all today and in south happy pongal to all also happy makar sankranti to everybody

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  18. PK Only Behind 3 Idiots In Week Four
    Tuesday 13 January 2015 12.00 IST
    Box Office India Trade Network

    PK has grossed around 9.50 crore nett in four days of its fourth week and is looking at 12.50 crore nett fourth week which will be the second highest fourth week ever after 3 Idiots. 3 Idiots had grossed nearly 16 crore nett in its fourth week.

    The next film on the list is Bhaag Milka Bhaag which grossed 8.39 crore nett in its fourth week making it the third best ever but the PK numbers will be around 50% higher. This is followed by films like Gadar and Lage Raho Munnabhai.

    The business of PK will go over 331 crore nett after its fourth week and is now heading for a lifetime total of 337 crore nett.

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  19. Tevar Monday Business
    Tuesday 13 January 2015 11.30 IST
    Box Office India Trade Network

    Tevar had a low Monday as it collected around 3.50 crore nett. The film has grossed 25 crore nett in four days and is looking at a first week of around 32-33 crore nett. The first four days collections are as follows.

    Friday – 6,80,00,000
    Saturday- 6,70,00,000
    Sunday – 8,15,00,000
    Monday – 3,50,00,000 (early estimate)

    Total – 25,15,00,000

    The drop is around 50% from Friday but the film has been helped by a tax free status in UP where collections have held up well due to this. The drop in Delhi/UP on Monday is around 30-35% compared to much bigger drop in the rest of the country.

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  20. Tevar is actually not bad, one of the better made South remakes. If it had Salman, would have rocked the boxoffice. If the opening itself is so bad, any amount of hard work by Arjun, Sonakshi or the director doesn’t help. The movie will flop but might be good for Arjun’s career and get noticed during its TV runs(similarly like Wanted didn’t do great theatrically but helped Salman’s career with huge amount of popularity on TV).

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    • think the timing was off on this.. it’s hard for releases to do well coming off major Christmas releases.

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    • Master: at the time Wanted was widely reported to have done very well theatrically, it was reported everywhere as a big success (it made over 50 crores at a time when not every film did so, and note that because of very strong single screen performance (cheaper tickets) it almost certainly sold more tickets than many 70+ crore grossers even of the day). This is the first I have ever heard that Wanted “didn’t do great theatrically” — at the time its box office performance was widley understood to have resurrected Salman’s faltering career, and he re-launched himself as a masala-action-only hero…

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  21. omrocky786 Says:

    Superb, must watch Interview of Joshi and Hirani…….

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    • gentlemen! How can they offend anyone? They never utter a word Hindu, Muslim…Readily accept issues with second half.

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      • The honesty that you know you are making a flawed film is so magnanimous. And I agree, how can anyone think these two men are trying to betray a section of the audience is beyond me!

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        • unlike those “I am charlie” people.

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          • I don’t know what you mean or what you are insinuating

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          • Di is referring to the movie MeA. Akbar was called Salim by his father. Of course as with everything else she says the ‘communal’ is never far! Akbar himself, otherwise the single most beloved Indian king, and by all sides, has also become persona non grata for the Hindutva ranks. Put simply there isn’t a Muslim anywhere and at any point in Indian history who isn’t ‘definitionally’ suspect for this ideology. Right down to the labeling of Muslims (and Christians) as ‘converted Hindus’ and hence always holding up the specter (and not just specter given many reconversion campaigns) of reverting to the original religion. I am not straying from the topic here. It is the ugly space from which such statements emerge. sadly such specters are raised today in other quarters too. Some Islamists argue that anyone who converts to Islam ‘reverts’ to the original religion of Adam and Eve! You couldn’t make this stuff up! But this is where such madness leads.

            for others here this is not an invitation to a political discussion. I am just responding to Jay’s question and of course id’s original remark. Anything else will be deleted, specially if it is not sober and is about fanaticism of one sort or the other.

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          • Regarding Jodha Akbar protests, it was mostly Rajputs who were against. In Chittor (1568), relatively young Akbar ordered killing of 30,000 civilians.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Chittorgarh

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          • On JA protests there are groups that sprout up with all kinds of names that more or less say the same things. This happens in all kinds of contexts.

            On Akbar besieging Chittor that’s absolutely true. Without getting into the question of ‘young’ and ‘older’ Akbar (and there is a difference) the larger problem is ripping examples out of context from older histories and judging them in the present. For instance earlier Muslim kings destroyed some of the holiest Hindu sites and/or ransacked them. But destruction following conquest wasn’t unique in this sense. Just in India lots of Buddhist shrines were destroyed in the very same way by Hindu kings and eventually after a struggle that last some centuries Buddhists were more or less chased out of India. This in the land of its birth. Even elsewhere the destruction of sites was quite often a way of destroying the native civilization and not necessarily as a religious statement. There are thousands of such examples. Conquest is never a fun thing for the conquered! Consider what happened in places where Europeans went. many native populations were even exterminated one way or the other. Including the country we are in now. And this is more recent history. In older ages it was even more brutal. Yes there were degrees but what the Muslim rulers did in India was hardly exceptional in any sense using the historical standards of that age, let alone anything before that. Much as slavery is one of the great crimes of human history but par for the course once upon a time. Every person who kept a slave in the US once upon a time wasn’t a loathsome individual. That was the world one was born in, that was the world one ‘naturally’ belonged to.

            This is why the whole Right-wing protest in these matters (not just in India) is always so dangerous. You cannot rip out details from centuries ago or millennia ago and try to ‘correct’ them. Or you can but then great violence results from it. Whoever does it irrespective of religion, caste, creed, ethnicity, nationality, whatever. What is done is done. If we find those histories disturbing or bothersome we must make sure not to recreate them in the name of some misguided, unfortunate, foolish, tragic notion of ‘historical revenge’.

            We should of course keep analyzing the histories (which is not the same as propagandistic versions of history that are partly or wholly fictitious), keep trying to understand them, but while I am often repelled by various kinds of historical violence (whether this involves the desecration of Somnath or the more recent destruction of the Bamiyan statues by the Taliban… Ia m sticking to these Islamic examples for a reason) I find it hard to judge them (this doesn’t apply to the Bamiyan example) precisely because I do not belong to that age or to those contexts. The caste system in India has been one of history’s most violent, most tragic, arguably the greatest such atrocity relative to its longevity.. and yet it was (it still is!) par for the course for most people.

            To be honest I am not making all of these points for you because I know where you stand but I’m saying all of this more generally. And I’ll repeat an older point here — what’s the debate about? I am pretty universal when it comes to condemning all kinds of violence. Why can’t those who debate with me do the same? Why the hedging? If you accept 1984 we’ll think about 2002. Etc etc. Something is either wrong or it isn’t. A rape, a murder, a genocide, human slavery, the mass explosion of people from areas, the devastation of a culture… on and on.. these aren’t things that are open for debate. It is the worst kind of obscenity to take that stand. Even if I were unsure about the good faith of the person I was debating with, or even if I was sure that he or she was speaking in bad faith, I would question the sincerity of such a person but it would never prevent me from saying that whether it was Rajapakshe in SL or Modi in Gujarat or the Congress in Delhi or Pakistan in E Bengal or Turkey in Armenia or the Serbs in Bosnia or the Hutus in Rwanda or the Nazis against the Jews or the ‘Americans’ versus the ‘Native Americans’ or the histories of slavery and caste subjugation… I could make this list encyclopedic, but in each and every case and without blurring the differences or the questions of degree.. I would be perfectly comfortable saying that each kind of violence is completely unacceptable even if in each case the perpetrators and those allies with the latter or ideological partisans of the latter make the very same ‘excuses’ indulging in the very same kinds of logic to create ‘mysteries’ where none exist. One cannot negotiate about these things otherwise one is only admitting one doesn’t have a problem with violence, one just has an issues with certain kinds of victims. In the very same vein and massive as these chapters of violence are (even if not comparable in the same ways) this does not justify any notion of ‘revenge’ (historical or otherwise). But this is the sort of absolute position people refuse to take. All we hear are platitudes like ‘the other guy did it first and deserves what he’s getting now’ and/or ‘we’re such nice people we wouldn’t otherwise kill or gang-rape anyone.. only when provoked’! Everyone can play this game and everyone does play it. It’s not only the people who commit those atrocities who are responsible. When we provide alibis for them based on our own blind ideological support we have some responsibility too.

            Once more this is not an invitation to debate. If there are unnecessary comments, links etc these will be deleted.

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          • Even if these were only Rajput groups there is a lot of selective history here (one sees it often as a tourist in Rajasthan too): Akbar’s empire was built on two pillars, and one of those was Rajput support — that is precisely why the marriages occurred (the groups protesting over the fact that there is no proof he married “Jodha” was a classic smokescreen: there is proof he married the daughter of the Raja of Amber, and that was one of several Rajput princesses he married. As did his descendants: 3 of Shah Jahan’a four grand-parents were Rajputs). The Rajput royal houses derived enormous wealth, influence and security from these alliances — thus the rulers of the likes of Jodhpur, Amber, and Bubdelkhand became enormously wealthy and powerful at the Mughal court, and as Mughal generals, in a way they certainly never could have been as rulers of small desert kingdoms. None of this unusual as a matter of history — but the right’s fondness for a certain kind of propaganda (eg seeing Rajputs as the sword arm of Hinduism against the Muslins) means the Rajput easy acceptance of Mughal overlordship for the most part is a huge embarrassment — hence the desire to elide large parts of the history, or to distract with side issues as in the case of the protests against Jodha-Akbar.

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          • PS — note that the Right never has a problem with the Rajput rulers (or any other rulers) serving as pillars of the British Raj (neither do I, but I’m pretty consistent on this, since in my view it is natural to reach an accommodation with the dominant power if one can strike a good bargain). So this issue ONLY comes up where the Mughals are concerned, quite clearly showing that the partisans’ true interest is not national pride but an anti-Muslim bent (“national pride” in the modern sense was an unknown concept back then; and the equation of “Mughal” and “Muslim” is itself a bit complicated)…

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          • great pair of comments.. and the ‘Muslim’ bit is especially important. One of the things that is always very hard for us to fathom from the perspective of the present is that labels of religious or national or ethnic identity are not stable across time. So a ‘Muslim’ or a ‘Christian’ or a ‘Hindu’ or a Gujarati or a Bengali or what have you are not labels that mean the same thing across time. These identities are constantly reinvented and with each reinvention the pretense often is that things have always been the same way. For instance all of contemporary Tamil identity including the enormous stress placed on the language (one of the most nationalistic people on the planet in this sense) is not more than a century or at the most a century and a half old. But that’s NOT what the average Tamilian believes. For him or her this entire set that makes up contemporary Tamil identity has ALWAYS been the same or frozen in time. We always use the present to rewrite the past which is different from interpreting the past using the tools of the present. Even the latter exercise has to be undertaken with great caution. The hardest thing is not to uncover the facts of history but to somehow be true to the values of an older age.

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          • PPS — the contemporary Rajput embarrassment is best illustrated by the tourist audio guide at Jodhpur’s Meherangarh fort. This waxes enthusiasm as it guides the tourist through the splendid gifts (from Shah Jahan to the Raja), and spends a lot of time on a painting set amidst the famous rebellion against Aurangzeb (when the latter tried essentially to control succession to the Jodhpur throne) — but glides quickly over the historically far more lengthy alliance between Jodhpur and well over a CENTURY’s worth of Mughal rulers, from Akbar through Aurangzeb.

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          • You are correct but who are remembered in History? None.. but a small ruler of Mewar who fought Akbar the longest; Maharana Pratap (and his horse Chetak – The famous scooter Bajaj Chetak is named after it). I don’t think it is Hindu-Muslim issue but more of proudness of Rajputs.

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          • Yes, but who is remembered and why they are remembered is never just a given, or a simple fact — but is itself a political process, that seeks to present itself as merely “given”. Thus the Muslim who goes around saying “we built the Taj” isn’t just making a statement of fact, there is a “selective” process at work here, it cannot just be accepted as memory (strikingly, Muslims of Indian ethnicity were LESS represented in the upper echelons of the Mughal empire for the most part than, for instance, Rajputs — a point that underscore’s Satyam’s point about class; in an agrarian/feudal society, we ignore these points at our peril. And there is tremendous data available to us, we know precisely, at different points in time, how many of the Mughal nobles were “Hindustani Muslims”, how many Rajput, how many of Persian ethnicity/background, how many Turkic, etc. It is only modern politics that identifies “Muslim” with “Mughal”, a move that would have rather shocked the highly race-conscious Turkic peoples who initially formed the core of the nobility). So too with the American who says “we support democracy around the world” or the Rajput who says “we resisted the Mughals”. These are all highly questionable selection exercises (even if important ones). Staying with the Rajput example, those who ENABLED the Mughal empire in its post-Akbar transformation — the point being that the pre-Rajput Mughal polity was very different from the post-Rajput polity, Streusend’s “The Formation of the Mughal Empire” is a slim, indispensable work on this, carefully explaining how Akbar over time realized that the Empire’s base needed to be broader than simply Turkic constituents, and that Rajputs and (a small number of ) Hindustani Muslims needed to be brought into the fold, a wise policy that ensured the empire’s survival and longevity) — can only be held up as the “defenders of Hindu dharma against the Mughals” by an utterly ahistorical interpretation, that has much more to do with post-19th century Hindu nationalism than with Mughal and Rajput history. (I would make the same point about those secular nationalists who wish to extoll Akbar’s “liberalism” — these are anachronistic categories not relevant in 17th century India. He was, as was typical of the time, an absolute monarch who crushed opponents with ruthless force (those who didn’t, wouldn’t have survived; none of the non-Mughal monarchs, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, were in the habit of holding elections and allowing pretenders to walk away with the throne!), but an exceptionally gifted and sagacious one.)

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          • PS — one objection to the sort of “relativism” I am arguing for in matters of history might be, that how do we “judge” if everything is relative? This is a great, and difficult, question. One (tentative) approach is to see how things seemed to people at the time, i.e. use more appropriate standards. Thus, Aurangzeb’s religious policy shouldn’t be judged “intolerant” because it is so by our standards (it most certainly is), but even his contemporaries seemed to recognize that something different was happening: think of Shivaji’s letter to Aurangzeb contrasting his policies with that of his father and ancestors like Akbar (usefully translated and discussed in Abraham Eraly’s very readable and engrossing account of the Mughal empire); think of Prince Akbar (Aurangzeb’s son) who also made similar points in his own letters of complaint justifying his rebellion against his father). These are both themselves political documents that must be seen as such, i.e. they can’t just be taken at face value, but my point is that they marshal certain kinds of arguments, presumably because the authors felt these arguments would resonate. Or take a very different figure, Churchill: more than once I have encountered the argument that he can’t be called racist because of the times he lived in; the problem is that by the standards of his own time and place (certainly post-World War I), his views on race and imperial subjects were regarded as retrograde by others in the British establishment, certainly in its more liberal segments. These standards, and Churchill’s insistence on espousing these views even when the world was seeing first hand the consequences of a highly racialized politics in the form of Nazism, provide a pretty firm basis for critiquing his positions.

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          • No the reference to Charlie

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          • sorry, thought you were referring to her response to Salim.

            On this I’m unsure too although again given that it’s Di there’s some connection between PK ‘attacking’ Hindus (as she sees it) and pandering to Muslims (as she sees it too) and the atrocity of killing those Charlie Hebdo guys. Again it’s configured in different ways but it’s always this same space for people like her.

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          • Could you ever control why someone feels hurt? There are two sides right? So one side would always say we intended to hurt or we didn’t intend to hurt on purpose. The other side (the community or public) says we are hurt. Basically we cannot control what can “hurt” a community. Bottomline is intention (of the movie maker or writer or cartoonist) doesn’t matter!! Oh, we are such a gentlemen and we wouldn’t hurt a fly, while making movie on religious practices of various communities but mostly one community in particular…oh-I-am-so-innocent-naive. wow.
            You can actually make any amount of fun in Hindi or southern cinema on hindus. The worst that would have would be a theater might get burned. unlike what happened in Paris on publishing a cartoon! Personally I have found Shakti Kapoor’s upright shikha far-far more offensive than pk but I think people have as much right to protest in peace (without burning down any movie theaters) in democracy.
            In terms of movie making, more the controversy merrier it is in boxoffice numbers! More controversy, negative or positive, publicity, the better. The same happened is “Passion of Christ” movie by Mel gibson. There was no “controversy” in mainly christian country. How could there be? But they artifically created “controvery” to increase the theater footfall.
            It works everytime.

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          • Satyam, you are stupid.
            I am going to ignore you!!!!

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          • yeah… play this innuendo game and then pretend otherwise! If this was your first such comment I would’ve given you the benefit of the doubt but it’s rather late in the day for that!

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          • I love Salim. If you are jealous of that, then that is YOUR problem. If I and Rockstar have debate with Utkal, you get so very jealous, that you delete our perfectly nice, peaceful, decent, friendly posts!
            Go trigger happy. Go delete us.
            No difference between you and those who “deleted” those cartoonists!!!
            The thoughts and actions are the SAME, for me!!!

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          • You ALWAYS assume things about me.
            Show me where exactly I have said pk was anti-hindu or I hated it or it hurt anyone’s sentiment…. yada yada? and all other things like “hindutva”, akbar….whatever. B.S.
            I have never said anything negative about akbar and I have read more Mughal history then you would ever in your spare time!!

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          • There’s nothing to assume. ALL your statements are fairly clear on this score. As for the rest I prefer to not to get into that foolish debate on who’s read what. But again there’s nothing to assume! Anyway let’s not drown the forum with this back and forth. You said what you did, I said what I needed to.

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          • See Di , what have you done by simply stating I am Charlie
            ab suno baith kar, forget present right wingers, hamarey poorvajon ko bhee gaaliyan pad rahee hain !! LOL

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          • LOL, and you’ve proved the point! The more universal I make my statement the more it irritates people!

            Of course there’s a particular irony in Di saying ‘I am Charlie’ or for that matter anyone who belongs to her school but irony isn’t a term in any fundamentalist’s vocabulary!

            But you know Rocky we are both great fans of masala cinema (from the 70s! in case anyone is confused!).. this is the greatest proof that our morality and ethics are in the right place. We are above these right/left debates! In any case my Gujarat ‘model’ (even if his family came to Bombay) is Manmohan Desai!

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          • The invaders came, conquered , victimized, tortured, but hey why are you complaining now, everyone does it, why did you not die fighting at that time, why did you compromise at that time,
            The invaders are the real victims, they are the minority…
            matlab kuch bhee !!!!

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          • Rocky I don’t think you’ve read my comments — or, by making an equation between “invaders” and “the minority” you make the very same error I am talking about. What’s the connection? It’s like saying the British were a minority or the Normans were in England.

            Secondly, I’m not sure “compromise” is the best word for what was often such enthusiastic participation by Rajput rulers in the Mughal project — and why single out the Rajputs, the point holds true for other Rajas and nawaabs too, but the Rajput rulers of Rajasthan were among the biggest beneficiaries of the Mughal imperium.

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          • yes that would be my advice to the adivasis.. they call Hindus ‘diku’ (outsider)! Isn’t this also the problem? One only wishes to focus on the Hindu-Muslim equation. Why not this other stuff? Because it doesn’t suit one’s narrative. And yet again my invitation for a more universal standard in these matters has been rejected!

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          • Q- My simple point was that whatever reasons ( too many Jaychands, still are ) they had at that time for compromising with the Invaders does not take away the fact that they were tortured and converted.
            The more the liberals shoo away / wish away the problems associated with Fundamentalism of one religion by comparing it to PK/ and other crap, the more they are digging their grave.
            Not talking about you or Satyam, but generally these days to show that one is secular- all one has to do is ridicule Hinduism, and Hindus.
            And with the French incident morons like Rana Ayyub, Sagrika etc have been totally exposed.
            Granted BJP has morons like Saakshi, Giriraj and Tagodia, too

            Satyam sir- with your recent essays you seem to be more of a “Jalebi” fan than Masala …lol

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          • But your initial point is a myth. They were used to a world where these sorts of things routinely happened. Their ‘compromises’ have to be contextualized. Secondly they did not at all have the sense in many cases that they were ‘Hindus first’ and then everything else later. The same happened with any Muslim rulers later also. It was a very complex, complicated set of arrangements. For example at the Mughal even Muslim princes say with Mongolian connections or Turkish connections were often valued more than those with persian ties. The same happened at every end of the equation. Religious was sometimes the primary determinant but as often wasn’t. This wasn’t just so in India but everywhere in history. There were Crusades once but there were much more brutal wars in Europe ‘within’ Christianity. And again there were all sorts of complex political arrangements where religion was a tool much like ethnic identity or whatever. Again this is what I was referring to earlier. You cannot project into the past contemporary belief systems. It is doubtful whether before the advent of the British even the word ‘Hindu’ had any common meaning obvious to all. One can debate these things but in any case one has to be careful. To say that there are Catholics in France today and there were Catholics in 1600 means very little. Because in each what being that Catholic entails or entailed is dramatically different. We see it in out lifetimes. The Saudis have spread Wahhabism all over the globe. Many Muslims in the subcontinent who have absolutely nothing to do with this brand of faith (the vast majority of the Mideast is not Wahhabi either) have been converted to this ideology. So even though they didn’t grow up with it they have in many cases accepted it. These things change overnight. Wahhabism even in Saudi Arabia was initially a political arrangement. You cannot look at religious history without examining all the cynical politics that defines it everywhere in the world. And once those political decisions are made people justify them in religious ways all over again. So for political reasons you accept one interpretation of religion and later you justify the politics by saying that’s the purest form of religion or whatever. There are very many scholarly texts as well as literary works one can look up in this context depending on what one is interested in. But check out for example Yashpal’s feminist work Divya, set in ancient India. It’s very interesting for the world it evokes. It is not at all a world one would recognize if one looked for ‘Hindu India’ there. Because again and much like with the Mughals it was a question of political alliances and who was influential where and so on. No one felt that being ‘Hindu’ defined things more than anything else. Ironically even the idea of India as this unity over time is precisely a British invention and one that Nehru quite consciously took up and expanded on. This whole sense of the mystical unity of an ancient civilization. of course there are important continuities but there are important disjunctions as well and in any case the idea that there’s something like a nation-state of India always around is absurd. The North-South fault lines for instance have always been very real. If you read Kalki’s historical novels for example the ‘South’ if you will exists largely as a sphere apart. This despite some important Sanskritic influences in ancient times. The problem with history is that it can feed any fiction but equally if one is sincere every bit of smugness one might have about one’s country, one’s lineage, one’s language, one’s ethnicity, one religion.. every such belief is easily deconstructed. And even doing things this way is not that old, at the most a couple of centuries, more or less as old as the nation-state. before this there were lots of other considerations in play too much as religion or other kinds of identity was also understood in different ways. Finally it was a much more class-oriented world once upon a time. To get back to the Rajput example often they had much more in common with a certain Mughal nobility, despite the obvious differences, than they had with many of their own counterparts elsewhere in India. The same held from the Mughal perspective. We always have to look at class when we look at that world.

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          • I believe on most forums, the most active “liberals” are nothing but closet muslims or closet hindus.

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          • What does liberal have to do with being Hindu or Muslim? It’s not as if one can be liberal only after leaving religion behind!

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          • What I meant was- that they are “liberal” only for namesake.. and not in essence. The most vocal ones are often the ones who are just closet hindu or closet muslims..and more than “liberal talk”..they are just batting for their own religion by some passive aggressive defense (and in the process belittling the “other” religion

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          • Historical heroes are either demonised or eulogised. Aurangzeb is demonised while Akbar is eulogised. These things will never end.

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          • here goes into political discussion again started by whom…

            virtual disconnect and ignorance with verbose… portrayl of hemu in jodha akbar was pathetic just to show soft side of somebody

            http://indianhistoryfact.blogspot.in/2012/12/vikramaditya-hemu-chandra-great.html

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          • forget indian history even iranian history and akbarnama has also lot in brutalities of akbar and his harem during war time

            ironically when he toned down he abandoned islam and started his own religion

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          • A bit of nuance is required when dealing with history; rather than this complete whitewash which is being done today. The India of 1500AD was in fact much more tolerant than what it is today. It was always about one set of multi-religious fiefdoms co-operating in collusion against another set of multi-religious fiefdoms. Had the partition not happened, we would be having a huge multi-party democracy with one set of multi-religious parties competing with another set of multi-religious parties.

            Hemu led a Afghan-Hindu combine against the Sunni Moghul-Shia Persian combine on the other side. Or even earlier, a Turkic Babar fought a Rajput-Afghan (and slave dynasty components) army under Rana Sangha.
            I do agree that Hemu was grossly misrepresented in JA. In fact, the Moghuls wouldve been wiped out in the battlefield, had it not been for that stray arrow to his eye. That also does not mean that had Hemu won, he was going to embark on a Hindu Rashtra of any sort, since his court largely consisted of Afghan courtiers from the time of Sher Shah Suri.
            Even earlier, during the time of Prithviraj Chauhan, there hardly was a unified Hindu India. It was a collection of 500 kingdoms, with Chauhan being the largest in North India, but with hardly any influence beyond Jhansi down south. The mighty Moghuls could barely make it past the Deccan, and so even then there was a unified India of the size we have now. It is a tad bit facetious to think that India was some huge Hindu Rashtra in 1000AD.

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          • crusade mongol why hindu first and bla bla…can’t be more irrelevant by just playing with words

            who cut the head of sikh gurus when they refused to convert ….aurangzeb and why sikh religion was established to protect whom any idea…may be fiberal don’t have thick skin to comment upon that

            After Timur’s empire disintegrated, his descendant Babur, having inherited a small kindgom in Ferghana (present day Uzbekistan) and losing it, ended up as king of Kabul. With dreams of emulating Timur, and cannons which were gifted to him by the Ottomans, he invaded India, won at Panipat in 1526 and established the Mughal empire in Delhi. The word Mughal was what the Persian Shah referred to him as. It was used as a derogatory term. But it meant Mongol, and Babur decided to adopt that as the name for his dynasty. Babur was a Timurid (direct descendant of Timur), and his maternal grandmother was a direct descendant of Genghis Khan. Babur was much inspired by both Timur and Genghis.

            did timur not plundered delhi…any time how many times the city of delhi was destroyed…symbolically its rebuilt and still capital of india while babur lies in his grave

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          • Btw, Chenghiz Khan was not even Islamic. And Khan is not even an originally Islamic name. The Mongols perpetrated the largest travesties known to mankind during the expansion of their empire. We can keep harping about the towers of heads erected in Delhi by Ghazni, Ghori et al. But that was nothing compared to what the non-Islamic Mongols did to the Islamic states of Khwarazim and Persia. They literally cut entire populations to the sword. In history, there was no pogrom greater than what the Mongols achieved in a space of 50 years across Asia. And yet by sheer luck, India escaped that entire carnage. If the Mongol Horde had indeed landed on India, our history wouldve been very much different. The garden variety travesties conducted by the likes of Timur or Babar are piddly when compared to the devastation caused by the Mongol Hordes.

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          • There is an unverified trivia which claims that 5-7% of all Asian men are descendants of Mr Chengiz Khan. If that is true, it speaks of the horrors committed by this dude from Mongolia.

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          • nykavi: infact we agree on brutalities elsewhere but to talk on unified… any idea on maurya empire which unified indian subcontinent…. any idea on marathas the natives who where the last …just look at there map and you will get answer

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          • The Mauryas too did not occupy entire India. They were a North Indian kingdom, and this all disintegrated by 300-400AD.
            As for the Marathas, they ruled Central India only, that too for hardly 50-70 yrs. They did not annexe Oudh or Bengal or Punjab. Their foray into present day Lahore was very limited. And they did not go too far down south beyond the Krishna-Godavari. Yes, they were instrumental in bringing down the Moghul empire, but they too did not have a unified central leadership. The Peshwas fizzled out, to be replaced by an assortment of chieftains. All of these were disparate fiefdoms, which were unceremoniously usurped by the Brits in a space of 50-70 years after the Battle of Panipat, and Plassey and so forth. So, its not like we had some huge unified India ever under native rule.
            Lets just get it straight: the Brits conquered and unified us into the largest empire that had ever ruled the subcontinent. No other kingdom in subcontinental history could compare to the landmass that was governed by the Brits. Whatever atrocities they did, at least they left a large country intact, which survives because of secular democracy. I too am against the psuedo-seculars, but I cannot deny history.

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          • not only northern india but major chunk of pakistan

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire

            chandragupta maurya was a shudra

            Cholas under Rajaraja I and Rajendra I conqured all of southern India and most of the eastern coastal regions in India upto the ganges. They also subdued Sri Lanka and went as far as Java and Sumatra. Rajaraja also built the magnificient Brihadeeshwar temple a wold Heritage site.

            prithviraj chauhan

            Ambhi alias purusothaman , he ruled Kingdom of Porus .its small kingdom .
            His small force bravely do war against Alexandar the great when he entered to india . To sum up:

            Shri Krishnadevarya in south

            Shri Chhatrapati Shivaji in middle

            Shri Guru Gobindsinghji in North, certainly played a great role to protect hindus in middle age before arrival of british to save hindus….mughals never ruled complete india

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          • to surprise you further even Brahui language in balochistan is dravidian…

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_language

            you will be surprised to even multan got his name from and its linkage from prahlad and ancient india…

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          • Dravidian languages have nothing to do with Sanskrit though! In fact the Dravidian argument is precisely that they were all over the subcontinent before ‘North Indian Aryans’ colonized the subcontinent. And this of course is true if one follows the linguistic evidence. Sanskrit is an Indo-European language. Just about every scholar agrees that the proto-Indo-Europeans emerged somewhere from the Russian steppes and then spread to many different parts of Europe and Asia. Sanskrit belongs to the specific branch which has Persian (or Old Persian) as a sister language. One only has to compare for instance Old Persian pronouns with Sanskrit ones and see how close they are (among other things). The point being that those speak Vedic did not originate in India much like those speaking persian did not originate in Persia (and so on for the Germanic languages or the Romances languages.. all Indo-European). So this ‘we were always in India’ claim is completely bogus.

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          • Again Rockstar, all these examples are good, but it still does not prove that there was one huge unified Hindu India ever. These were Kings ruling different parts of the subcontinent, but never one Supreme Kingdom. All these disparate kingdoms were always at war with one another, always fighting for territory. They all had different beliefs, persuasions, etc. The Hindu Rashtra rhetoric fails precisely because there was no homogenized ‘Hindu’ in the collection of those competing kingdoms of that time. The right might get some intense feeling of satisfaction by knowing that pre 1000AD India was ruled by 300-500 warring kingdoms, but practically, it was a hellish place by itself. Imagine being a farmer who had to keep paying tax to different sets of rulers every few years, with whimsical demands, and terrorizing armies that would loot your crops. I am sure our poor unliberated harried bretheren from 1000 yrs ago would be confused at this puerile pleasure that we derive by imagining ourselves to be under 300-500 undemocratic, unequal Hindu Kingdoms. They must all be wondering why these future ‘natives’ are not elated at the unique gift of democracy that was given to us in 1947. Seriously, no one should hope to have been living in any undemocratic time pre 1947. It was hell all around.

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          • “hey all had different beliefs, persuasions, etc.”

            again not at all dear…why bali is still hindu by belief…why malaysia despite being muslim now revers its past hindu history so do indonesia unlike pakistanis and taliban in afghanistan who destroyed buddha statues

            so do indonesia….still common hindu names and even name of its airliance carrier is garur dhawaj

            hellish place dont produce great civilization which are vedic

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          • satyam:

            Origin of Tamil is like origin of Sanskrit.From Pali came Sankrit and Tamil,Telugu, Malayalam and Kannada as branched from Tamil and that tamil is the root language…so what

            what abt dna ….you will change that

            Sanskrit developed in the area of prayers, chants, philosophies, shastras etc…Tamil developed in the area of literature, poetry and arts. So when it came to building places of worship and ceremonial rites to be followed, Sanskrit texts had better guidelines in the area due to works on Vaastu Shastra, Agama Shastra and Jyotisha Shastra. The rulers and inhabitants of ancient Southern India then adopted the methodology prescribed in Sanskrit texts and soon they were experts in many of the shastras and theories. Both the language have terrific contribution to the culture and heritage of modern India…no one can deny that. Adaptation and adoption are necessary for any race to survive, Tamil Rulers did that and that is the prime reason that it is one of the oldest language in the world still spoken by millions

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          • Rockstar.. why do you keep saying such nonsense? Tamil has nothing to do with Sanskrit. Nor do any of the other Southern languages. They’ve been influenced by Tamil literature and share a great deal of vocabulary but they’re otherwise completely different. You just know nothing in these matters beyond your fantasies. Frankly you need an education in more ways than one. On your other ‘linguistic’ claims you are also wrong. But I don’t want to extend this further. It’s a foolish debate when one person simply does not know what he’s talking about and refuses to learn. Let’s end this entire discussion here. So there. I’ve warned about deletions.

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          • There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that Tamil is descended from Sanskrit; no respected linguist says so. Tamil has a lot of Sanskrit vocabulary, but that is a different question (just as Urdu has tons of Persian words and Arabic words but that doesn’t make it derived from those languages: it is descended from the Khari boli dialect of Hindi that modern standard Hindi is also descended from.

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          • the classic example here is English which has 55-58% Latin-French vocabulary, largely by way of the latter (of course french was the court language in England for a century or two after William the Conqueror!). But english is much more closely related to German. It’s just the vocabulary that has changed.

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          • for all verbose malyalam itself is a mixture of tamil and sanskrit

            The mix of Sanskrit with Prakrit has created many north Indian language family, similarly mix of Prakrit with Tamil has created many south Indian language family.

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          • again this is nonsense. The Southern languages have nothing to do with Sanskrit. Having the vocabulary in many instances means nothing from a linguistic perspective. Similarly the Southern languages have evolved on their not from Sanskrit. Also there is no significant difference between Malayalam and Sanskrit in any sense barring the different scripts. The two could more or less be dialects. The Prakrits simply are spoken forms. It was once believed that they were all derived from Sanskrit but many now think they might have always existed alongside Sanskrit. But either way the roots are the same. And these have led to North Indian contemporary languages. Not just North Indian. By the way it’s not just Southern languages but lots of adivasi languages (these ‘original inhabitants’ of India) as well as many Northeastern languages and so on that have nothing to do with Sanskrit. You can keep saying the same stuff again and again but it’s factually completely inaccurate. Earlier you mentioned Kannada as coming from Tamil. It does not. It’s more closely related to Tamil within the larger family of Dravidian languages. telugu for instance belongs to a different branch. But it does not derive from Tamil the way Malayalam does. Much as Bengali does not derive from Hindi. Both are equally descendants of Sanskrit (or the Prakrits). Again you you should look up this stuff. Linguistics is a science. You should understand what a language family means, what cognate means in this sense and so forth.

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          • ver the past 2000 years, these languages have undergone a lot of intermixing. The ruling kingdoms have largely influenced the evolution of these languages with respect to one another.

            Karnataka (kannada) is influenced by a large number of languages than any other South Indian language. The northern parts being influenced by marathi. The western part by konkani. The southern parts by tulu, kodava, tamil. And eastern part by telugu. Even the urdu influence during the sultanates rule in northern Karnataka cannot be undermined. Thus, this makes it difficult for a person from Bangalore and Mysore parts to understand the kannada spoken in northern parts of the state and vice versa.

            Similarity of kannada with other dravidian languages basically depends on the chosen dialect.

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          • basically you don’t know what you’re talking about once again but this is a pointless debate.

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          • In its spoken form, Kannada is closer to Tamil. But in its written style (not script) Kannada is more Teluguish than Tamilish.

            Like

          • http://satyameva-jayate.org/2009/11/07/is-sanskrit-really-a-indo-european-language/

            there are some Indian language scholars who have suggested that a computerized analysis of Sanskrit and Latin lexicons might yield a far more limited overlap than would be rationally implied by the “Indo-European” classification.

            In fact, such analysis might reveal a greater overlap between North Indian and South Indian langauages as well as between Adivasi langauges and their neighboring Indic langauges that are presently placed under the “Indo-European” umbrella.

            Like

          • anyone can say anything and be called a scholar. Fundamentalists of all kinds have their ‘scholars’. and this is meant for the consumption of people like yourself! Anyway let’s not waste anymore time over this.

            Like

  22. Brad Pitt, Christian Bale and Ryan Gosling to Star in Financial Drama ‘The Big Short’

    Following the success of “Moneyball,” Brad Pitt and his Plan B shingle have assembled an all-star cast for the next adaptation of a Michael Lewis bestseller.

    Sources tell Variety that Pitt, Christian Bale and Ryan Gosling have come on board to star in “The Big Short,” Paramount and Plan B’s adaptation “The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine,” which Adam McKay is writing and directing.

    Lewis’ nonfiction tome tells the story of the build-up of the housing and credit bubble during the 2000s that led to the financial crisis of 2007-2010. Paramount had no comment.

    Pitt will produce with DeDe Gardner through their Plan B banner. Production start date is unknown.

    The book follows several key people who played a role in creating the disastrous credit bubble. The feature adaptation will likely feature several A-list actors who have similiar-sized roles, similar to the cast of “Traffic” or “The Counselor.”

    As with “Moneyball,” Pitt has been very passionate about getting this adaptation onto the bigscreen.

    His Plan B company has built a reputation for serious dramas that tackle important issues, with “12 Years a Slave” landing last year’s best picture Oscar and “Selma” deep in the Oscar race this year.

    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/brad-pitt-christian-bale-and-ryan-gosling-to-star-in-financial-drama-the-big-short-exclusive-1201404038/

    love the subject..the cast…but adam mckay as the director is iffy. i love him directing comedies…not sure how this subject can be a comedy…it was cruel what happened during that time period and what bunch of rich crooks got away with.

    Like

  23. omrocky786 Says:

    In recent years you have become friends with Aamir Khan…
    Yes, Aamir is the last person I got close to and we had a chat and I told Aamir, ‘I picked up the vibe that you don’t like me.’ I feel in my life that’s rare because I am more or less liked. You can not know me but not liking me is an extreme reaction to have about me unless we have had a professional issue. If you don’t like my kind of cinema, I don’t have any problem with that. My thing is: If you don’t like my cinema I can’t hate you, its your opinion and you are a cinegoer and you have the right. I am a filmmaker and I don’t like a lot of my work, dude so it doesn’t matter what others think, I’ll pinpoint my own fault and tell you ‘isme yeh galat thi, isme woh galat hai.’ I remember Rensil (D’Silva) said to me, ‘Anurag is the right choice for dialogue but unfortunately you hate him.’ I was like, ‘I don’t hate him. He had a problem with me, I retaliated back in print. That’s it.’ I said, ‘If you think he is right, please call him.’ Anurag was shocked. He asked me, ‘You want to work with me?’ I said ‘Ya, I have no problem, you are great for the job.’ You don’t like my movies, you can’t really hate me, right? I loved Dev D, I absolutely loved Black Friday, I love Anurag’s work and then he grew to develop an equation with me down to directing me. Then he said, ‘I was wrong about you
    http://www.dnaindia.com/entertainment/interview-i-take-my-relationships-seriously-not-my-status-karan-johar-2051991

    Like

  24. PK Footfalls To Stay Below 3 Idiots
    Wednesday 14 January 2014 11.30 IST
    Box Office India Trade Network

    The footfalls of PK will stay below 3 Idiots though have gone past Dhoom 3 in the fourth weekend. 3 idiots had footfalls of 2.8 crore plus in 2009 while Dhoom 3 was 2.55 crore plus last year. PK will finish somewhere in the middle of the two.

    It seems that having more than 3 crore ticket sold is a tough ask while 4 crore looks an impossible task. PK had a huge average ticket rate in the first week of 207 at multiplexes in the first week while second week came down to 181 and third week is down to the normal 155. The footfalls in two weeks were around 2.2 crore and in three weeks it has similar footfalls to Dhoom 3.

    In two weeks PK had recorded the same number of footfalls achieved by Ek Tha Tiger but that had nett business of 186 crore while PK in two weeks grossed 277 crore nett. A difference of 90 crore nett in collections but same amount of tickets sold. There will be a huge difference in the average multiplex ticket with Ek Tha Tiger being at 150 and PK heading for 195. The ratio of single screen business is also less for PK. The festive period and the content working meant ticket rates could be kept at higher levels for longer. It was on the third Monday that they were at regular rates. The gap in business between the festive event films and other major releases will get wider as ticket rates can be pushed higher for the festive releases be it for three days, a week or even longer when content is there like PK.

    Still put into perspective, a Hum Aapke Hain Kaun would be grossing 650 crore nett on the ticket rates at P.K. Just like North America where the biggest recent hits like Avatar or The Avengers compare badly with the biggest hits ever like Gone With The Wind and Star Wars, its a similar story in India.

    Note – The 650 crore nett of Hum Aapke Hain Kaun is not the adjusted nett gross of the film. It is the adjusted figure on the ticket rates of P.K. The average ticket rate for 2014 will be much lower than the rate of P.K.

    Like

    • All these criteria, all these ‘adjustments’, all this subtlety, of course valid on its own, the sort of thing we have often talked about here and certainly standards Hollywood uses, have suddenly been discovered by BOI. I’m not making this up when I say that the moment I saw the footfalls title to the story I said to myself ‘what next? A HAHK comparison!’. And sure enough here it is! And consider the ETT example which I find highly suspect. In any case ETT wasn’t brought up when the subject was trending earlier or it was about absolute gross. Then it was only about 3I (the only film that could still look better in certain ways). And they’ve been going on about 3I throughout. It’s like an actor has HAHK and then DDLJ and you keep beating the latter for not being the former! Nonetheless let us sympathize with BOI. They have a certain kind of amnesia that crops up somewhat selectively! All those Salman releases (since these are the ones they seem to be obsessed with these days) and it was never about all these comparisons (to 3I or to other Aamir films or whatever). Then it was just about what happened in the first few days and that was it. Again as I said the other day the foolishness about all of this is that the nation that has been championing PK would laugh its head off if ETT were even mentioned in the same sentence! With good reason. And if these write-ups are about personal anxieties well those should be played out privately! For many years I’ve felt that while BOI detested the Bachchans Aamir was lowest on their list when it came to stars grossing a lot, i.e. they liked this scenario least. We saw some of this even with Ghajini when the film was grudgingly given a super hit tag or whatever but nothing more on the excuse that it was an expensive film. But now with PK really they’ve broken all their own records of idiocy. This is their 3I moment! Ha! The idiocy has trended well too. They’re still at it!

      Like

      • Re: “The footfalls of PK will stay below 3 Idiots though have gone past Dhoom 3 in the fourth weekend. 3 idiots had footfalls of 2.8 crore plus in 2009 while Dhoom 3 was 2.55 crore plus last year. PK will finish somewhere in the middle of the two.”

        Yeah, some of us had been making the “footfalls” argument for years — but at the time BOI wasn’t interested, because SRK-films benefited from inflated ticket prices and the number of tickets sold by others didn’t seem to matter. They’ve got religion a bit late in the day!

        Like

      • Satyam, what agenda do u have?
        Bachcha a and Aamir in the same line mentioned?
        I think BOI has improved on his commentary and is speaking truth. You can disagree but calling everything biased is becoming amusing of you. If you do not have logic, no need to paint the White truth as yellow.

        Like

      • They keep changing numbers. Here the footfall of 3 idiots is between 2.25-2.5 crore in 2011
        http://www.naachgaana.com/2011/10/10/gadar-would-have-collected-325-350-crore-if-released-today-boi/comment-page-1/

        Now 3 idiot is 2.8 crore.

        This was again in 2011.
        1 Gadar Ek Prem Katha 2001 130,25,00,000 40 32 4,07,00,000
        2 Hum Aapke Hain Kaun 1994 123,00,00,000 35 35 3,51,00,000
        3 Raja Hindustani 1996 85,00,00,000 36 30 2,83,00,000
        4 Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge 1995 106,50,00,000 35 38 2,80,00,000
        5 Three Idiots 2010 269,50,00,000 88 105 2,57,00,000
        6 Ghajini 2008 155,00,00,000 80 70 2,21,00,000
        7 Dhoom 2 2006 111,75,00,000 67 60 1,86,00,000
        8 Kuch Kuch Hota Hai 1998 76,75,00,000 37 42 1,83,00,000
        9 Karan Arjun 1995 52,00,00,000 35 30 1,73,00,000
        10 Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham 2001 78,50,00,000 40 46 1,71,00,000

        Now based on above where is HAHK going to get 650 crore or the footfalls have increased?

        If you ask BOI now they will claim DDLJ has more footfalls than Raja Hindustani.

        Like

        • LOL, good catch Munna. I guess it depends on whether one includes or excludes those ghosts who also wanted to watch 3I but couldn’t get tickets..

          Like

    • There is just one answer to all this nonsense: Demand In-elasticity. BOI shud go do an Econ 101 class to undersand why higher ticket prices for one star are easily lapped up, while another star loses out on this luxury. It may also have to do with the spending power of their core fan-bases.

      Like

    • But seriously, these guys have gone off their rocker with PK. It has hit them hard, very hard. With the Kick opening, they had blatantly annointed SK as #1, even disregarding the D3 gross. Never in their most horrifying dreams did they expect a 300+ grosser from Aamir. They actually believed in all the nonsense excuses which have been bandied about previously about AK’s previous successes.
      As I have mentioned in the past few weeks, this PK success is going to make every Aamir hater to scrounge the bottom of the excuse-making-barrel. BOI doesn’t disappoint in digging out the lamest of the lame stuff from their bowl. Good Laughs nonetheless.

      Like

      • I wait for the day SRK or Salman actually do have “that” moment.

        BOI will probably make it a national day.

        And a lot of people will need to duck from the spunk being fired out of BOI.

        Like

    • This is very fair assessment by BOI

      Like

  25. P.K Talli Says:

    Aamir Khan hasn’t decided what he wants to do next. He came close to saying yes to Karan Johar. But he didn’t like the script http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/movies/features/type/view/id/7766

    Like

  26. Rangan finds I exhausting:

    http://www.thehindu.com/features/cinema/cinema-reviews/i-movie-review-by-baradwaj-rangan/article6789179.ece

    haven’t read the whole thing as I’ll be watching it tomorrow. The sift and behind woods reviews seem to suggest an average film but again Vikram has come in for praise. The latter two I don’t take as seriously because they’re not exactly in the Vikram fan club. Even otherwise I’m a bit skeptical when Shankar is called ‘predictable’ this late in the day. But of course I am interested in Rangan’s views and will read his piece after watching the film. It’s supposed to be 190 min!

    Like

    • Haven’t read Rangan’s review but I have to admit the “I” trailers besides containing some of the most seamless effects shots I’ve seen in Indian (read: Indian) movies of late, didn’t really interest me all that much. I want to see it more in light of it being the spiritual followup to Enthiran, (in that it’s a fantastical premise for a director prone to fantastical gestures even in genres that don’t require them) than in terms of the actual film’s merits. It just seems way too busy. Will still try and make it out for this – it helps that it’s a playing locally.

      Like

  27. Nargis Fakhri ar 2.00 mark….

    Like

  28. That’s quite a ‘blink n u will miss it’ appearance by Nargis–doesn’t do ‘justice’ 2 her ‘talent’…

    “Still put into perspective, a Hum Aapke Hain Kaun would be grossing 650 crore nett on the ticket rates at P.K. “– hmm a telling statistic.

    Btw-deepikas advice to katrina kapoor

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jb08ra1jIno

    Like

    • on the other hand if Hrithik were in PK the 330 crores would be reported as 650!

      Like

      • LOL!!!

        Not only that – here’s Aamir’s career in brief;

        — Rang De Basanti – Huh, so what if Siddharth took the climax? All the other 4 are basically ‘nincompoops’ in terms of their
        filmic standing..

        — Fanaa – Narmada controversy boosted the ticket sales

        –3I – > Aamir ‘milked’ the spectacular combo of Hirani and VVC and rode on their shoulders to a 200 cr grosser – even Baba Ramdev can be a hit in such a great script

        –D3 – > Hrithik lifted ‘short’ Aamir on his ‘bulky’ biceps and contributed 150 cr to the life-time business of D3

        – PK–> Aamir ‘milked and milked’ AGAIN the trio of Joshi, Hirani, and VVC..

        — Satyamev Jayate – A pretentious Aamir created a show just to be ‘different’ in a METICULOUSLY cultivated image and tried to add ‘gravitas’ to his image – just like those tele-evangelists who speak of submittal to God in their 3000$ suit..

        –TZP – yeah, different – so what? He stole it from Gupte!

        — Lagaan — maybe some credit to Aamir for believing in a multiplex-unfriendly script..with people running around in dhotis when HR was content biceping and SRK was still stuck in YRF

        —————————————————————————-

        Damn – as somebody said, Johnny Lever and maybe even Sanjay Mishra’s career is far more ‘honest’ than this..

        Like

  29. Contd from

    https://satyamshot.wordpress.com/2015/01/12/tevar-pk-ongoing-the-rest-of-the-box-office-2/#comment-293745

    Read bits of the box office ‘analyses’ (aka balderdash) above..both pro aamir & BOI

    Saala hindustan mein jab tak ‘sanema’ hai log chuxxye bante rahenge

    Satyam,
    na jane kab chodega ye apne ganjedi nashedi sab dost log ko..

    Like

    • “Satyam,
      na jane kab chodega ye apne ganjedi nashedi sab dost log ko..”

      Sorry to break it to you, but I don’t think Satyam considers you a friend, really…

      Like

  30. So latest reprint sells for 117k online. What a retort !
    The incident also displayed who the True liberal media are. Those who decided against reproducing it are liberal only in name. Those who reproduced the latest issue stuck true to their core beliefs of free speech. The old grey lady was certainly disappointing in their decision and stands naked in her claims of being liberal. And the WH too, for not sending anyone to participate, despite the AG being right there in the midst of the city.

    Like

  31. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/bollywood/Abhishek-Bachchan-Lesser-known-facts/photostory/45887626.cms

    A very interesting photo accompanies. Ash looks as pretty as ever. And all except Ash are wearing similar shawls.

    Like

  32. http://www.hindustantimes.com/entertainment/tabloid/deepika-padukone-on-suffering-from-depression-it-was-a-struggle-to-wake-up/article1-1306957.aspx

    In early 2014, while I was being appreciated for my work, one morning, I woke up feeling different. A day earlier, I had fainted due to exhaustion; it was all downhill from there. I felt a strange emptiness in my stomach.

    I thought it was stress, so I tried to distract myself by focusing on work, and surrounding myself with people, which helped for a while. But the nagging feeling didn’t go away. My breath was shallow, I suffered from lack of concentration and I broke down often.

    Over a period of time, it got worse. When my parents visited, I would put up a brave front because they were worried about me living alone and working long hours.

    Then, once, while talking to my mother (Ujjala Padukone), I broke down. She realised the problem, and got in touch with a psychologist friend, Anna Chandy, to get to the root of the cause.

    Every morning, it was a struggle to wake up, and shoot for Happy New Year’s (HNY; 2014) climax. Finally, I had a word with Anna aunty. She flew to Mumbai from Bengaluru, and I talked my heart out to her. She concluded that I was suffering from anxiety and depression.

    When she suggested I take medication, I was resistant. I thought talking was enough. Later, I met another psychologist, Dr Shyam Bhatt, in Bengaluru for a second opinion.

    There were days when I would feel okay, but at times, within a day, there was a roller-coaster of feelings. Finally, I accepted my condition. The counselling helped, but only to an extent. Then, I took medication, and today I am much better.

    Read on.

    Like

  33. February seems to be an interesting month. First Shamitabh and then Roy.

    Like

  34. Rockstar, here’s the problem with you which is why I have to end up deleting many of your comments.

    1)First off you’re a Hindutva ideologue. You’re a total fundamentalist in this manner. What this means is that for you there is no distinction between history in the scientific sense or scholarly sense and mythologized history or for that matter propagandistic history. So you’ll quote anything as long as your basic ideological position is confirmed. You’re not really following the historical chain in the scientific sense. Like all good fundamentalists you choose what suits your ideological commitments and the rest you call a ‘lie’ even if it is the result of the best research. This was proven even with PK recently where you were willing to follow an idea as absurd as the one that suggested it was running to empty theaters and what not.

    2)Even all of this would be less of a problem if you had more self-control. But you don’t. And so before one knows it there are 3 pages of comments. No one else does this. It’s one thing to have a long discussion where one adds something substantive with each response. But you keep posting comments and links where you essentially repeat the same things. So it becomes counter-productive and it just takes space. So again for today I think you’ve said everything you needed to. I’ll have to watch the comments from this point on because there are already too many.

    Nykavi has pointed out many of the relevant historical points. At the end of the day one has to be willing to learn where one does not know things. If one isn’t it’s a pointless discussion and a total waste of everyone’s time. And all fundamentalists have equivalent versions of history and they all believe they are correct.

    I’d add this more general point here. All right-wing movements are based on the erasure of the past. At the very moment that they pretend to restore some former greatness they are radically reinventing it for their ideological purposes. The Hindutva view of Indian history is a total fantasy as much as the Nazi view of Germany was one and as much as every other such movement also does the same. But go across the border and you’ll find other such fantasies. The Pakistanis who are tied to Central Asia, the ones who are inheritors of the Indus Valley civilization (though what does the have to do with Islam?!), and so on. The real aspirational model for Hindutva is really Pakistan more than anything else! Or a successful Pakistan. Ideologically like them but an economic powerhouse. And the anathema to the same is the Nehruvian-liberal model (which of course could be updated economically.. Congress already did it in the 90s.. but the socio-political aspects of it are also no acceptable to Hindutva.. again there are Nazi echoes here.. the powerful state that simply wants to stay true to its great heritage and in the most exclusionary ways and meantime has to battle the left/communists/liberals who along with the minorities destabilize this project). So again there is a great Indian/Indic past, far greater than one might think, one that cannot be even spoken of in the same breadth as these Hindutva fantasies, much less reduced to them.. it is this great past, this great history that must be preserved and celebrated.. but it cannot be done with the kind of utter nonsense and mind-numbing ignorance that is on display in certain camps.. much as there was a great German heritage or a great Germanic heritage which the Nazis utterly destroyed.. one doesn’t have to be quite as destructive as them.. one can be in that lineage. So again I celebrate the Vedic, the Sanskritic (these aren’t the same things incidentally) and I celebrate similarly so much else of this culture and civilization but precisely because I am true to it I have to reject Hindutva claims in the most emphatic ways.

    Like

  35. satyam in a way you are totally non existent neither here nor there forget being fundamentalist…i am proud of what i am think about yourself

    further relevant points ade being argued with facts like done here with facts not verbose and word spin with zero content

    Like

  36. Tevar Gets Advantage Of Tax Free Status In UP
    Thursday 15 January 2015 12.00 IST
    Box Office India Trade Network

    Tevar has got advantage of Tax Free status in UP and is holding up well in the state. The nett collections on the Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday have been similar to the figures on Friday and Saturday in the state. The film will notch up around 4 crore nett in the state which is similar to a film like Action Jackson which had a much higher all India first week total.

    It does not make much difference to the overall result of the film as other places are either dropping or steady at low levels

    Ther have been part holidays in various parts of the country like Lohri and Makar Sankrati over the last two days which have also ensured the falls are not as big as they could have been,

    Like

  37. IMHO, the Paris carnage ought to have been a wake up call for any democracy loving free thinking people all around the world. Especially for those who breathe liberty and perpetually enjoy the gift of democracy, yet are unable to see the perils of fundamentalism.
    And the quintessential French response, of unity, and further of defiance. Only a people who truly nurtured egalite and liberte can tackle this menace and lead the path towards sanity. The perpetrators have messed with the wrong set of people this time.

    Like

    • “And the quintessential French response, of unity, and further of defiance.”
      Everything Paris did on Sunday was both peaceful, meaningful and dignified. It was a great moment of solidarity and the right way to respond.

      Like

      • true though the only thing I’d add here is that the right to free speech isn’t absolute anywhere in even the Western world. For instance France tends to be anti-religious in very many ways. Various public symbols disallowed, certain dresses disallowed.. they have a long tradition in this sense but it is still one that argues against absolute free speech. In the US you see careers being destroyed all the time over improper remarks in public. These might be anti-black, anti-Jewish, they might be very ugly too but an immediate moral police takes over and a guy can go from earning a few million every year to national pariah. Now the law itself doesn’t do anything here but the point is that society itself polices these things in certain ways and it can then depend on a sympathetic legal system even where there is nothing to disallow the utterance of such remarks. Not to compare any of these examples with India let alone any place else but the point is that there are problems even within these societies.

        Like

        • Totally…and also freedom of speech is overrated anyway. Rationality and reasonableness is far more important. If everyone in the work place or outside had complete freedom of speech…well there would be anarchy. All things need some level of governance or moderation. The idea that you can say what you when you want is simply ignorant and superficial.

          Like

          • The Pope too today says freedom of speech has its limits. In fact he would punch his assistant if he spoke ill of his mum. LOL. Good one Pope.

            Like

        • “Now the law itself doesn’t do anything here but the point is that society itself polices these things…”

          Agreed, but at least the US has the right to free speech/expression enshrined in its constitution and legal system. That’s pretty powerful protection and I think has a mitigating effect on the larger society’s response to “offensive” speech. In places like India, not only do you have to contend with the moral police but with actual policing by the state!

          Like

          • Ha ha ha, are you serious ? heard about the Patriot Act ??
            kuch bhee!!

            Like

          • And if this in reference to the Greanpeace fraud- read what one of the first and best investigative Journalist has to say about that –

            Time to take a look at the “rent an NGO” industry in India after the Greenpeace episode.
            http://www.thenewsminute.com/news_sections/2727

            Like

          • I agree completely. I wasn’t comparing the US to India but within the Western context I see this as problematic. Even as someone who sees the value of political correctness (at least upto a point). Because what the law decides isn’t completely divorced from societal norms. So while the law might not lend this any kind of support the other powerful institutions of the state would. Basically a who’s who of important figures in just about every important walk of life. The law then doesn’t have to do very much in these cases. There’s a self-policing mechanism in place which is once again problematic inasmuch as there might not be significant legal redress available to one. One of the problems then with political correctness is that it advances such a logic. Now you might say I shouldn’t have a problem with this if things are moving in a more civil direction. That’s fair upto a point but then there are sometimes greater problems that don’t receive the same degree of attention. Once you’ve checked certain boxes you can say or do a lot more that is objectionable in other areas.

            Like

    • http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-30785930

      the latest in an umpteen series of incidents where publishers/authors et al have been pressured. It was amusing (only thing more amusing was to see some of those Mideast representatives there!) to watch Charlie Hebdo become such a big news item in the Indian media with so much anguish over what this meant for free speech. Of course the actions in that case were extreme but it doesn’t have to rise to that level to threaten free speech. From the Satanic Verses to Perumal Murugan there are tons of such episodes in India. Why would anyone shoot anyone else in India when so much can be achieved without going to that extreme?! And with the laws as they are written eagerly enabling this!

      Like

      • The spin by the Fiberals is unfuckingbelievable , read here for the true story-
        https://realitycheck.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/je-suis-tiruchengode-or-perumal-murugan/

        Like

      • There really should not be selective outrage in India. Freedom of Speech is curtailed depending upon the power-to-be of the day. So, a Kamal-Dhamal-Malaamal is censored, but a PK/OMG is not. To make all things equal for everyone, why not just remove the ban on every objectionable book, movie, painting etc that has ever been banned/curtailed/censored in India? Then there will be no us-vs-them complaints. Every side will be skewered, and every side will have to live with True Freedom of Speech. The French are surely egalitarian in that regard. However, the political masters in India think that the sheeple are too immature to deal with Freedom of Speech. Hence the selective exercising of censorship and outrage based on the power-of-the-day.

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      • Yes, it was perhaps bigoted or distasteful in the eyes of many. Which is exactly why this magazine had a run of only 60k copies a week. But by doing what was done to it, the current weekly print run jumped to 5 million!! ie they sold more copies than they cudve done in almost 2 years. And to boot, they are selling online for upwards of 25k USDs, the record sale being at 117,000 USD. Some of these online sellers might be the staff themselves, what a neat retirement package to have received. The families of the victims will also get the proceeds. Ultimately, the barrel of a gun could not trump economics. In the end, money, the truest and most impartial power in the world, gave a big middle finger back to the extremists.
        And don’t think that this is going to stop here. These guys are going to continue poking their fingers into the eyes of everyone. No one will be able to stop them from being bigoted or distasteful anymore. They have been given a blank check. So much for bullying and intimidation.

        Like

      • From Time:
        “A series of attacks, both in the name of Islamist extremism, occur in the same week. Three linked attacks kill 17 in Paris, another kills at least 150 in Nigeria (but perhaps up to 2,000). Guess which one gets most of our attention?”
        On Pope: he is not going to like Charlie Hebdo cartoonists because they drew cartoons of him with condom on his head.
        The thing is: didn’t those militants immigrate to western world for its freedom (of expression etc) as opposed to the oppressive dictorship back home?
        One has to understand that France has history of satire unlike other western countries e.g. USA

        Like

    • Minhaz Merchant
      ‏@minhazmerchant Hinduism spread globally through monks & migrants, Islam & Christianity through the sword & gunboat

      Like

  38. i dont want to take sides here but have to say that the likes of satyam stand totally ‘exposed’ here…
    infact satyam stands STRIPPED !!

    Whats also admirable is how france has stood strong & stuck to its stand

    the problem is not the fact that standards differ between societies but when within the same society there is NO consistency

    the BIGGER problem is this attempt to CLUMP together different ills and degrees of disorder

    when one skims thru some of the liberal essays above–its surprising how something of the magnitude of shoplifting or shouting slogans or mild to moderate antisocial behaviour is compared to LARGE SCALE MANSLAUGHTER!!

    and its presented as a ‘like to like”

    this sort of FAKE & DISHONEST commentary like those of satyam and the ilk need to be taken to task

    needless to say, that those who talk about ‘freedom of speech’ are the first ones to resort to ‘moderation’ or “threats of moderation’ intimidating most souls like omrocky, rockstar, di, naveen etc

    as for me, this never stops/stopped me from speaking the ‘truth’.

    Like

  39. ‘All things need some level of governance or moderation. The idea that you can say what you when you want is simply ignorant and superficial.”

    @ FAKE SHAH—this is what those protesting against PK were saying –in a nonviolent way (though i dont agree with those protesters but this is reworded by u yourselves for yourselves!!)

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    • Apex, you might want to check your facts sometimes. The PK protestors were precisely not doing anything non-violently. They were vandalizing theaters (even this was cynical, they didn’t go after the powerful chains). It was everywhere in the media with video footage. No one would have a problem with the protests otherwise (even if and as has become the norm they woke up 10 days after the release.. a bit hard to believe this was spontaneous!). But really check your facts first!

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      • ” not doing anything non-violently. They were vandalizing theaters “–omg “vandalising theaters”!!
        when did this become comparable to KILLING journalists or selcective GENOCIDE or BEHEADING westerners and telecasting it LIVE and making an entire ethnic female (ISIS) community SEX SLAVES !!
        How the heck can any1 with half a brain compare these two?
        the control of moderating button and language skills doesnt make a difference
        just because i dont have the time or patience in these ‘debates’ doesnt alter the ‘truth”

        dont have to take lessons from people who needed to be forced or cajoled to condemn an act of selective and targeted massacre of school kids !!!
        to heck with such FAKERY

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        • who said it was comparable? let’s not be silly about this. Actually the reverse also holds. Why are you so bothered about those people being killed when the same Islamists kill many more people in many other countries and far more brutally? What happened in Paris was horrible but far more horrible things happen elsewhere! In Peshawar they gunned down 140 kids, most of them at point blank range. Though this became a huge deal the Charlie Hebdo thing became a comparable news event. Was it really comparable though? Even leaving aside this there’s a lot more than happens in Pakistan and elsewhere that’s atrocious. I am just sticking to Islamists for the time being. In Nigeria hundreds of young girls have been kidnapped and made sexual slaves more or less. Even otherwise hundreds of thousands are killed in places like the Congo in the most barbaric ways and no one cares. it’s not even on anyone’s radar. So why are you even talking about Charlie Hendo? You yourself have brought up some of this stuff. Nothing tragic ought to be compared. On the other hand if you say it’s ok to vandalize theaters just because people are not being killed well then you eventually get to the point where people are! So spare me this false and in your words ‘fake’ moral outrage.

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          • “Though this became a huge deal the Charlie Hebdo thing became a comparable news event. ”
            Different societies ‘choose’ different standards by which they live by a certain mix of circumtances, socioeconomic realities and most importantly nowadays the opium of religion. The value of Life is NOT the same everywhere -let’s not fake that it is! These ideals are good for lectures, blogs et al
            Why is one 9/11 such a big deal even till now in the place u r living in??
            Y r u quietly enjoying the ‘security’ that this provided u?

            “In Peshawar they gunned down 140 kids, most of them at point blank range”– I pointed that out here and folks were ‘muted’
            There was NO definitive condemnation!! Forget about others –since there are various reasons of the ‘muteness’ of many here—but did U condemn in a clear unambiguous manner?

            Ps: here I’m not talking about the french killings (which many have different silent positions) but about the Peshawar massacre who nobody can /should find anything but revolting !!
            But even there the reactions were ‘guarded’…

            As per some of the ‘comparisons’ given above, they aren’t even worth ‘comparing’ technically forget ‘like to like’.

            Like

          • you know Apex you’re simply playing a holier-than-thou game here..

            I’d actually say there’s even a vulgarity in this insistence on condemnation. I wouldn’t ordinarily expect anyone to be ok with this. Or far less. This whole mentality of ‘raise your hands if you condemn it’ is simply a means of patting oneself on the back, doing one’s ‘duty’ and then moving on with one’s life as if nothing ever happened. What changes? But somehow one puts oneself ‘on record’ in the cheapest possible way and one has done something important! Yeah right! But even going by that logic how many times did you condemn Rajapakse’s military actions against the Tamilians, the Burmese state against the Muslims, the various killing fields of Africa, I could keep going on..? In other words your condemnation is simply a way of going with the flow. The media chooses certain stories, politics dictates certain stories get more attention than others, you respond with an easy ‘me too! I too condemn!’ and that’s it.

            I actually start with the position that no right thinking person has different opinions on something as atrocious as killing those journalists. I assume the same when other such things happen. When a woman is raped somewhere in Delhi I don’t start taking a roll-call here of how many people condemn it and how many are silent about it! It’s obscene to even raise this question.

            The value of life is not the same everywhere. It’s governed by all kinds of politics. This doesn’t mean that one simply accepts it and moves on. So much for your (false) moral outrage. From pretending to be upset about things you’re suddenly saying ‘oh it’s only about the lives that are valued more’!

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          • LOL this is a perfect way to describe this guy. Let me just add flavour of the month, swimming with the tide etc. A very humourous description.

            Like

          • “This whole mentality of ‘raise your hands if you condemn it’ is simply a means of patting oneself on the back”
            To strip or teases out certain tendencies –these exercises are needed !

            THATS where u got caught ‘satyam’
            U were laid into the trap
            And u walked in as expected

            “But even going by that logic how many times did you condemn Rajapakse’s military actions against the Tamilians, the Burmese state against the Muslims, the various killing fields of Africa, I could keep going on..?”

            The above examples u quoted CAN have different positions depending upon which side u r on
            For eg the Sinhalese may support rajapakses position
            The Burmese may have a reason to do what they did and so on

            But again
            There’s NOTHING that justifies targeted SELECTIVE killing of KIDS

            EVEN in the WORST CRIMES/WARS, kids and women are SPARED BUT
            Here the kids were targeted

            I chose this example since there’s something truly UNIVERSAL & UNAMBIGUOUS here
            And so it removes lots of BIAS & CONFOUNDING FACTORS

            The way u and some others shied away from condemning it and again played the COMPARISON TROPE & other ‘examples’

            Exposes this hypocrisy and twisted logic !

            And also why u need to ‘ moderate’ me.

            U just can’t handle or cope with me –accept this Satyam

            Like

          • Of course I can’t ‘handle’ you.. why would I want to get my hands dirty?!

            On the rest I have nothing to add to what I’ve said except that before going on this moral outrage trip you might want to show less sexual innuendo when you address women here.. how’s that for a new year resolution?

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          • “Of course I can’t ‘handle’ you.. why would I want to get my hands dirty?!”

            Possibly this bit of humor went a bit far.. my apologies..

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          • “On the rest I have nothing to add to what I’ve said ”

            There’s nothing for u left to say or add because the ‘spin’ and twisted logic and spin has been picked & pointed out
            And exposed for all to see

            “before going on this moral outrage trip”

            Nobody cares to go on a ‘moral outrage trip’ (& least of all yours truly!) but
            The least u can do is to APOLOGISE to bloggers whom u are subjecting to such bullcrap like comparing sheer massacre and big time massacres to petty law and order problems …

            As for ‘new year resolutions’-first get some guts to remove moderation and then we may talk bout that …

            Like

          • It never pays to engage with some people…!

            Like

      • The other problem with this sort of debate is standards. So let’s all accept that ISIS > Hindu extremists. The question is, that’s what we’re going to put on a T-shirt? i.e. “Don’t protest, at least I’m better than ISIS!” By this yardstick one could never complain about any human rights violation by anybody, because “hey it wasn’t as bad as the Nazi death camps!” (By the way this argument is offered with a straight face by apologists for British imperialism: “hey we were better than the French”, whatever that means.) You can’t say that when it comes to democracy we should be classed with Japan and UK, in economic development we want to match China, but when it comes to human rights issues “hey we are better than ISIS”. That is just hypocrisy. [We see this sort of thing often in discussions around Israel in the US as well: for every good thing the claim is made that Israel is “like” the liberal West, but when someone complains about human rights issues then it’s “we are so much better than other countries in this neighborhood” — but since when are Syria and Iraq the benchmark for Israel?!. Or many Muslims say things like “we were much more tolerant of Jews in the middle ages than Christians were” — completely true (although that’s a low bar!), but that serves to obscure the debate, as to why there is so much anti-Semitism TODAY in Muslim societies.]

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  40. Satyam, Let’s move on and kind of have a “No Politics” policy strictly implemented, which would also mean that even you should refrain from writing on these matters ( I know it’s your blog, you can do whatever the F you want to, but just a request ) …… It just does not do any good to anyone !!

    Like

    • Lets get back to PK BO
      😉

      Like

    • I’ve stayed out of it many times.. I think you’re one of the most active folks when it comes to putting up tweets and what not here! So if you believed that why were you putting up those tweets attacking liberals or posting links to the same effect (often with prefatory adjectives assigned to liberals!) when no political discussion was happening?! So is there a problem with the politics or with the responses from the other side?! Ha! That was a full toss by you Rocky!

      But I do agree with you. We should all have a moratorium here. Of course your friends won’t even leave PK alone. What to do?!

      Like

      • This is a serious and false allegation, I have always provided links, tweets to an ongoing discussion, NEVER out of the blue ( Unless you are talking about the dedicated political threads that we had ).
        Show me one instance where I have posted a political link without any ongoing reference, and I will stop commenting here.

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        • First off I’m not inclined to disprove you if you threaten to leave! Secondly there have been a number of instances where you’ve brought up tweets out of the blue. The Javed Akhtar one recently regarding the tweet he sent out and later apologized for. This had nothing to do with cinema even if it is Javed Akhtar. Secondly the definition of ‘ongoing’ gets a bit tricky too. If you respond to a topic long after it’s dead you can’t say it’s simply ongoing in the same way. Now to be clear I don’t have an issue with any of your tweets or links even if I obviously don’t agree with you politically. Why? Because you don’t go overboard. But some here don’t have the same discipline. And then it drowns the forum. The point is that everyone can say they’re responding to ongoing discussions. Few things come out of the blue in this sense. And again I don’t have an issue with this. I am just wondering why you have a problem with the responses when you clearly find it quite easy to respond to others or bring up many of these topics. This time you’ve tried a slower delivery but I’m afraid it still hasn’t worked! LOL!

          I do agree it’s been getting a bit too much recently but it’s mostly because of some totally intemperate remarks by some here. Otherwise one can’t have a mature discussion about some of this stuff. But yeah we should all take it easy for the time being. Once more I don’t want you to leave so I won’t provide evidence but even otherwise it would take too long to go through all the threads. What would be the point? As for this being a ‘serious and false’ education c’mon Rocky we both know India well enough and what really counts as serious or not!

          Waiting for your next delivery.. you’ll have to do a lot better buddy..!

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          • So I checked the Javed Akhtar link, it was in response to FOE and PK protests, where Coolguy called them lowlife, so my next comment was look at Lowlife JA and his FOE. ..IMO it was totally relevant
            I was just trying to settle down the raised temperatures in the forum , and I become the problem…so be it !!!!

            Like

          • you’re not the problem at all but your definition of ‘relevance’ is rather lenient! As I said by the same token everything everyone else is saying here is equally relevant and part of ‘ongoing’ discussions! I’m not sure why you’re taking this so personally. My response was only about your comment that we shouldn’t have so much politics. But if everyone says a little bit it’s a lot. or give Rockstar 5 min and its a lot! Anyway some top spin on this one. Nonetheless I fend it off!

            C’mon Rocky, as I said the other day we’re on the same masala team!

            Like

          • RE.-I was just trying to settle down the raised temperatures
            (by suggesting to have NO politics discussion policy)

            Like

          • no that’s fair.. I agree there.. though some raise the temperature needlessly. No reason why everyone else has to be penalized. But again I do agree that we should all avoid these discussions for a while. Alright your suggestion is taken. You can still post positive tweets on ‘commies’ . LOL!

            Like

          • ” The Javed Akhtar one recently regarding the tweet he sent out and later apologized for. This had nothing to do with cinema even if it is Javed Akhtar. Secondly the definition of ‘ongoing’ gets a bit tricky too. If you respond to a topic long after it’s dead you can’t say it’s simply ongoing in the same way.”

            That is a slippery slope; Many discussions happen which have no relevance with cinema except the person is someway related with cinema.

            For example:
            http://indianexpress.com/article/india/justice-markandey-katju-wants-katrina-kaif-as-the-next-president-of-india-then-retracts/

            Like

          • I wasn’t objecting to Rocky’s comments. All I’m saying is that first of all nothing forces one to respond to something someone else is saying. But even otherwise a lot of comments do seem a bit out of the blue or are related in the most tangential ways. Much as many comments are added with certain words like ‘libtards’ or ‘sickularists’ constantly prefacing them. I don’t have an issue. My only objection is that one cannot then say one has just been ‘passively’ responding. Specially if one is also saying others bring up politics because in many of those cases too people respond to something that’s ‘ongoing’. Also in terms of cinema it’s one thing to bring in politics where PK is concerned because it directly impacts the film and quite another to be on the lookout for every film personality who one has on a blacklist for their views and that one is ready to pounce on! For instance I could put up a picture of Shatrugan Sinha and his daughter with Modi and make a political statement about it. They are of course celebrities but this isn’t as directly connected to politics as the PK thing is. There were Muslims in TN who objected to Vishwaroopam. Again same thing. it’s more directly connected. Still, I don’t have a problem either way, certainly not with Rocky, I don’t have an issue with most others too as long as there aren’t a 100 repetitive comments. All I was arguing about was Rocky’s rather too ‘passive’ presentation of himself in this matter. I think that’s a bit hard to establish!

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        • “I will stop commenting here.”
          Abhi naa jao chodd kar ki dil abhi bhara nahi…

          Like

      • Munna sir, can you please help Satyam find one such comment!!
        I admit I have on numerous occasions posted tweets. links to counter the narrative or have written in protest against people quoting Pragya Tiwari totallu out of the blue just to score some browny points.

        Like

        • Rocky, I don’t have a problem with your comments but to say that you simply respond to ongoing stuff and that it’s never out of the blue and never gratuitously directed at liberals is simply not true. Look at it this way — I could put up examples of Hindutva comments and actions pretty much every single day and say it’s ‘ongoing’ because of course there has been discussion on this stuff. But it might not be on that day or week or within that thread. But even if what you’re saying is completely accurate Rockstar might say he’s also only responding to other stuff. The problem isn’t this as much as what follows!

          Like

  41. Oscar Nominations out:
    Boyhood, Birdman, and The Imitation Game all came out of this morning’s Oscar nominations looking strong, in an echo of last year’s three-movie race to best picture. All three of these best picture nominees saw their directors, screenplays, and two of their actors nominated for top prizes.
    The other five best picture nominees included American Sniper, whose star Bradley Cooper landing a best actor nomination was one of the morning’s biggest surprises, and Selma, whose missing out on nominations for director Ava DuVernay and star David Oyelowo was another. Also in the hunt are The Grand Budapest Hotel, The Theory of Everything, and Whiplash.

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  42. If Bollywood Movies Came With Clickbaiting Headlines, This Is What They Would Look Like
    Yes, we are guilty as charged, but in our defence, who doesn’t like a little bit of masala? Clickbaiting headlines is like the the KRK of the Internet. Love, it, hate it, but you just can’t ignore it!

    Just when you thought Bollywood couldn’t get any more dramatic, someone like ScoopWhoop does this:

    http://www.scoopwhoop.com/inothernews/clickbaiting-headlines-ftw/

    Like

  43. Shahid Kapoor bagged Best Actor, Jury for ‘Haider’, Priyanka Chopra for ‘Mary Kom’. Shah Rukh Khan and Deepika Padukone won the Best Actor and Actress awards Popular Choice for Happy New Year. ‘Queen’ was awarded the Best Film award. Here is a look at all the winners of 21st LifeOk Screen Awards. – See more at: http://indianexpress.com/photos/screen-awards-gallery/winners-at-21st-annual-life-ok-screen-awards-shahid-priyanka-shah-rukh-khan-deepika/#sthash.pnGd4qKH.dpuf

    Like

    • omrocky786 Says:

      PK Style Weather Ka Haal

      Yahan का मौसम एकदम लूल होई गवा है…।
      बोले तो..
      ससुरा कभी गरमी लगत है, तो कभी ठण्डा…
      काउनो फिरकी ले रहा है, हम लोगन का…
      इ wrong नंबर है…
      ई गोला पर मौसम का काउनो भरोसा ही नाहीं…
      एक तो ठण्डा ऊपर से, इ ससुरा बारिश..!!
      हम तो कनफुजिया गया हूँ…
      की साला Sweater पहनू या Raincoat…

      Like

  44. myselfaamir Says:

    Fantastic Interview of Rajkumar Hirani addressing most of the issues being raised against PK.

    Like

    • Very fiery interview. And I am surprised Hirani even entertained these types of questions as he didn’t need to justify what the blatantly obvious his film was about.

      Like

  45. Release date of Jagga Jasoos postponedBy Bollywood Hungama News Network, January 15, 2015 – 12:03 hrs IST
    #
    While all eyes were set on the much awaited clash of two of Katrina Kaif’s most awaited films this year, Jagga Jasoos and Phantom which were slated to release on the same day, August 28, 2015, the makers have decided to avoid this clash. From what we hear, though Phantom gets to retain its release date, it is the Ranbir Kapoor starrer Jagga Jasoos that will be pushed further.

    It is being said that having two releases on the same day will prove hectic for Katrina Kaif who will have to juggle too much between the promotions. However, it has also been learnt that filmmaker Anurag Basu too is in no hurry to release Jagga Jasoos since it seems that final shoot schedule of the film is still pending, after which the film will go into post production, hence the delay. While actress Katrina Kaif mentioned about the film being postponed, the spokesperson of the film maintained that they are yet to narrow down on a release date for the film.

    Produced by Anurag Basu and Ranbir Kapoor in association with UTV, Jagga Jasoos also stars Govinda in a prominent role. On the other hand, produced by Sajid Nadiadwala and UTV-Disney, Phantom stars Saif Ali Khan in the lead role.

    Like

  46. Finally saw Locke- remarkable film which, in less capable hands, could have turned out to be a mere stunt/gimmick. And Hardy is absolutely terrific here, his finest performance ever (the last time I enjoyed him so much was in Warrior) and the best I have seen by any actor in 2014 (followed by Oscar Isaac in A Most Violent Year). The only Hollywood/British releases from last year which I have liked more are Boyhood and A Most Violent Year (yet to see Birdman and Selma). Also enjoyed Grand Budapest Hotel, but still think Moonrise Kingdom was better (or atleast more emotionally involving). And in a fantastic year for sci-fi films, the two I liked the most were Snowpiercer and I Origins.

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  47. http://www.rediff.com/movies/report/nyodda-gets-approved-by-aarushi-talwars-parents/20150116.htm

    Meghna Gulzar’s movie allegedly makes the parents viewpoint to be heard. Regarding Aarushi case.

    Like

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