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421 Responses to “Jolly LLB 2, the rest of the box office”
As of yesterday, M. Night Shyamalan’s Split has earned over $100 million in domestic grosses on a $9m production budget. That’s the biggest-grossing Blumhouse release yet for Universal/Comcast Corp. and will soon displace Paramount/Viacom Inc.’s Paranormal Activity ($107m) as their biggest domestic champ. That makes the fifth such film from the filmmaker and his first since The Last Airbender in 2010. The buzzy and shockingly leggy (especially for a horror movie) offering isn’t just the second big hit in just over a year for the revitalized writer/director. It’s a return to form for the filmmaker who was once championed as the “next Spielberg.”
Hyperbolic magazine headlines notwithstanding, Shyamalan is now back to doing what made him such a big deal in the first namely, namely racking up big hits with wholly original genre offerings. That was pretty cool in the early 2000’s, but now it’s downright invaluable. And even in this blockbuster heavy era, and with inflation playing an obvious factor, a single director having five $100 million+ releases is still a rather rare accomplishment.
With an estimated $14.6 million, M. Night Shyamalan’s Split is the #1 movie for the third weekend in a row as the film’s domestic cume climbs to $98.7 million. This is the first time Shyamalan has had a film top the weekend box office three weeks in a row since 1999’s The Sixth Sense and will shortly be his fifth film to top $100 million at the domestic box office. Combined with an estimated $44 million internationally, the film’s worldwide total currently stands at $142.7 million.
BOI has gone bonkers.for Aamir they wld have said domenatisation and intolerance starement didn’t effect BO collns by even 1%.nonsense stuff.15% LOL.It’s not possible for any sane person to accept their nonsense which they keep uttering time and again especially since dangal hurricane has hit them.
Trying to claim that Dilwale was the winner against BM deprives the column of any credibility.
I think, to be fair to SRK, he has definitely proved time and time again that he can deliver a very good opening. The main problem is that his movies aren’t being appreciated enough for them to come up with huge totals.
Raees started at 20.5cr opening day, went up to 26cr on its 2nd day and is going to fizzle out at below 130cr. Compare with Airlift for e.g one year before. Started off at 12.5cr and still managed to do nearly 130cr. Showed much better trending and appreciation.
The poor trending was right there with HNY, Ra1, MNIK, KANK and Dilwale.
BOI and lots of other BO experts have been clinging to the overseas gross to claim that SRK has a delivered a hit. But a lot of those movies do not look like clean hits. MNIK has reportedly cost over 70cr, it barely made 70cr in India and yet it was declared a hit because of its overseas gross.
Bharat Bhai Shah and SLB were proudly claiming a 50cr budget for Devdas and it barely made 30cr on its release but it is proclaimed as a blockbuster in some quarters. SRK was quoted as saying the overall cost of Ra1 was 175cr. It made 115cr and it is called a hit! KANK is called a success despite its huge budget and despite the movie tanking in its 2nd week. As for Dilwale, the less said the better. And Varun Dhawan contributed not even a penny to the final outcome, if one beileves BOI. The 140cr was only thanks to SRK. Forget Varun, Kajol, Kriti or Rohit Shetty. If ever Rohit Shetty directs a movie with these people, expect the final collections to be nil!
Raees also joins the list of SRK movies where you look at the final figures and you aren’t sure if it is a genuine success, let alone a semi hit. There were talks of it having to collect around 120cr to recover costs. The overseas collections once again save the day for SRK. But surely, there are distributors in the north and Delhi-UP who have probably lost money there or who have barely earned anything with the deal.
These films are just safe, even if that. Nothing more. They are hits in la la land. SRK can thank the trade system and media for a lot safety in his career recently. Barring CE he’s been poor for nearly a decade! That’s some going! Nothing is a clean success in the way other stars are performing.
There is no PK or Dangal.
There is no BB or Sultan.
There is no Barfi or YJHD.
There is no Airlift or Rustom.
There is no Ram Leela or Bajrao Mastani.
There is no Bhaag Mikha Singh.
The box office sites are jokes.
Everything is overseas or overrated. He might as well become the biggest overseas star as he’s lost his neutral audience in India massively.
Raees though, I wish I could watch the version before any commercialisation or changes. I’d wager how the film was set out to be would have helped massively and been possibly epic.
His fans have been robbed, many still happy. His opposition been given ammunition to fire for many years.
All these movies – Devdas, MNIK, RaOne, HNY, Dilwale, Raees etc cant be called hits based on their domestic theatrical run. Yet BOI makes it a point to call these recovery fares as Hits, but has a different paradigm for other stars. Their verdicts cant be taken seriously.
Even their numbers are dodgy on certain films based on their preferences. Munna said that based on raw numbers from Film Information, BOI has clearly under reported on Kaabil.
In short, neither BOI numbers nor verdicts can be taken seriously. Yet people say its the best thing out there.
I’m seeing this for first time. Haha is all I can say. Every actor in last 20 years probably barring Akshay Kumar had a year with only 1 release. Salman for sure in recent times. Hrithik many. SRK for sure. It matters little. The biggest star down South has very few releases, it matters little. Even Hollywood, the top actors rarely do more than 1 film a year. Top directors too rarely have prolific ratios. The idea of churn exists when you have remarkable frequency of scripts maybe like 50’s or 70’s.
Jodha Akbar was nearly 18 months after D2 which had followed Krissh, 2006 being HR top year. JA a film with Aishwariya Rai, sure a historical hardly opened big. It ran on decent WOM. Jai Ho followed ETT and Dabanng 2 after a 14 month gap and didn’t open bumper either. It’s nothing to do with gaps. It’s the film/buzz/hype you come with.
In the space of 9 months Aamir had MP, RDB, Fanaa all near enough first week records. Latter 2 carried good WOM. Hits.
They intentionally didn’t count Mission Kashmir vs Mohabbaten as the former opened almost twice than the latter despite having bigger director & better star cast, but BOI people go through a short term memory loss only when it comes to Shahrukh!! These bullcrap articles are only making them look like a jester!! Their continuous shielding of Shahrukh in times when people have easy accessibility to box office numbers is only exacerbating Shahrukh’s standing in public as he does not need all this imaginative stuff & fabrication to cover his failures as he is still a huge star notwithstanding his recent failures & underperformers!! I am expecting thecooldude to have his defence for BOI 😉
Rahul , except the naivety in bringing the intolerance angle again, the core thought in that commentary is nothing to scoff and deride. I am not much into daily box office trackings and have no idea what Raaes has made at the domestic market or if the final outcome is hit, flop or avg but all things considered, just the raw numbers prove there is a good amount of traction for srk to stay well afloat and be deserving of this write up.
Barring Aamir and Salman just compare these numbers to what is happening on the ground and a very different picture will emerge when rest of the crowd is barely registering a 70, 80 or at best gets a 110cr hit. Look at the hype Ranbir, Ranveer and some of these other top draws get with each release and the numbers they are eventually able to muster on paper….come to think, we are nation of youths and higher %age of 30 and under than at anytime……so where are these blokes and not adding up ?
From now until June 25, barring Bahubali 2 ( a south marvel ), please try to keep a track of box office earnings and you will understand what I am trying referring to…..case in point is listing last year box office earning of each movie !
I will argue that if Ranbir chooses to do boiler plate rom coms one after the other, he will definitely be among the top grossers. Shahrukh’s stardom is definitely on the decline while Salman does the same stuff over and over again. the only person who is really scoring at the box office while doing great work is Aamir..and i would say Akshay at a much smaller scale
It’s a classic case of where one is and where he projects himself to be. If SRK projects to be at the top or near the top and actually he has been consistently performing close to second string for almost a decade then he is failing. But if he decides to make movies that are 100-150 cr stuff and is content with it, then he is doing great.
I think its a case of bar being raised too high for him. Even when SRK was a top star he wasn’t breaking records left, right and centre like Aamir and Salman are doing (mainly Aamir if you talk about record breaking and Salman playing catch up, though Salman is doing some crazy stuff himself at BO). Anyways, with all due respect you can’t write him off since he still has a loyal fanbase, good initials and the media rooting for him. Its not over yet but its becoming a very uphill task for him.
On objectivity, don’t you think it is pot calling the kettle black?
Bollywood actors start to digress and test genres when the normal commercial route is not taking them anywhere. The romance of Bachna ae haseena, Anjana Anjani, Ajab Prem, Besharam, ADHM is not going to take Ranbir anywhere so that route is a lost cause. Now since he is born with silver spoon, he will continue having a go at each genre one by one till he exhausts everything under the sun say like a Abhishek where reality hit a good 15 years later. So with debut in 2007 there is 5 years still remaining to complete the circle of ‘what if Ranbir did this…?’
Anil Kumble was in his elements at the Ferozshah Kotla Stadium in New Delhi on February7, 1999, when India took on Pakistan in the second Test of the two-match series. He picked up all the ten wickets in the second innings of the match, a feat achieved only once before in the history of Test cricket. However, Pakistan fast bowler Waqar Younis had other plans on that day, when he contrived to find ways to deny Kumble his historic 10-wicket match-winning haul.
According to Wasim Akram, who was the Pakistan captain in that match, his fast bowling buddy Waqar, in order to deny Kumble the landmark, had hatched a devious plan.
It does have its magic masala moments but the film is overall as bland as an Anil kapoor film from the 80s. No originality whatsoever, unless Hritik being blind is any consolation. Surprised such a lame idea is presented as a story in these times.
The reports on BOI remind me of when lastango used to write for Planetbollywood. His box office reports were ridden with spelling errors, staunch support of SRK and a derision of art cinema or urban-style movies.
Jolly LLB 2 movie review: Akshay Kumar powers this courtroom drama that is funny as well as tragic
Akshay Kumar’s Jolly LLB 2 is out now. A sequel to Arshad Warsi’s Jolly LLB, this too is comedic in temperament but gets serious when it has to. Read our movie review here:
MOVIE REVIEWS Updated: Feb 10, 2017 10:45 IST
Akshay Kumar’s comic timing is the backbone of this story.(YouTube)
A film demands a good research when it’s based on theme of corruption in Indian judiciary and Jolly LLB 2 scores well on that front.
The biggest challenge Akshay Kumar faces in Jolly LLB 2 is to match up to the expectations that the audience has with the franchise.
The first instalment had Arshad Warsi as Jagdish Tyagi and he carried the entire film on his shoulder. His friendly courtroom banter with justice Sunderlal Tripathi (Surabh Shukla) is still fresh in our memories. So, when we meet Jagdishwar Mishra (Akshay Kumar), the new Jolly, the first question that comes to our mind is: Has director Subhash Kapoor found a worthy successor in Akshay Kumar?
I do films I believe in, not to change mindsets: Akshay Kumar
Jolly LLB 2: Akshay Kumar thanks Arshad for making it to screening
Akshay soon eliminates our apprehension when we meet his ‘jolly’ self. He likes to think of himself as a shrewd person, but he is confused. Most of his antics go against him and he remains in search of a big break. His wife, Pushpa (Huma Qureshi), enjoys her drink and tries to instil some sense into Jolly’s mind, but all in vain. Jolly isn’t ready to change. His motto: A good life is all about the money.
Saurabh Shukla is back as Justice Tripathi. (YouTube)
He has a nemesis in Justice Tripathi, Saurabh Shukla reprising his role from the earlier film. His colleague Mathur (Annu Kapoor) is another hurdle he faces in his work.
Huma Qureshi plays Akshay’s love interest, Pushpa in the film. (YouTube)
The film changes its tone from here on and becomes a commentary on the Indian judicial system. But, this is just a beginning for Jolly. His fight against the mighty and corrupt will take him to unknown places and dreaded people. It’s tragic and funny at the same time.
Akshay Kumar’s comic timing is the backbone of this story. His dialect, theatrics, dialogues, everything is spot on, but he is yet to deliver a powerful speech like Arshad Warsi.
With a fantastic support cast like Saurabh Shukla, Annu Kapoor and Inamul Haq, Jolly LLB 2 looks like a winner. Director Subhash is clearly in command of a story that seems to have a well written screenplay.
Govinda has been one of the most happy-go-lucky actors, the Hindi film industry has been blessed with. The 90’s superstar was known for his classic dance style and his cheerful nature.
Talking about today’s time, young actor Vaurn Dhawan, due to his naughty and flirtatious portrayals in most of his films, is often called the new-age Govinda.
Ahead of the release of his upcoming film, ‘Aa Gaya Hero’, when we asked Govinda about it, he got slightly irritated and said that he wonders why people keep trying to draw comparisons between him and Varun.
He also said that he thinks the comparison is a “fake one”.
“Ranveer Singh and Varun Dhawan both have a body like Salman Khan. But they can’t say it. If they call themselves as Salman Khan, then they won’t get films. They can’t afford to be against Khan. This is how the filmy world works,”
“How can he (Varun) be like me? To become Govinda, he needs to be innocent, uneducated and a poor village boy. Varun is already a son of a director. In the last six years, he hasn’t done more than two films with his father, whereas I did 17 films with his father (David Dhawan),” says Govinda.
“Aa Gaya Hero” directed by Dipankar Senapati stars Govinda in lead role and is all set to hit the silver screens on March 3.
Jolly LLB 2 Movie Review
Meena Iyer, TNN, Updated: Feb 10, 2017, 11.52 AM IST
CRITIC’S RATING: 4.0/5
AVG READERS’ RATING: 4.7/5
Akshay changes shades from crooked to straight, like a chameleon. In top-form, he puts up a perfect display of a street-smart lawyer who hasn’t read legal tomes but who has instead picked up tips from courtroom corridors to become Jolly LLB. Huma and Annu are also compelling enough. It is the fine display of histrionics by all these refined actors, which makes the movie, worth seeing.
Jolly LLB 2 Celeb Review: Akshay Kumar Is A Jolly Good Fellow, Says Bollywood
Jolly LLB 2 Celeb Review: It’s an entertaining courtroom drama which keeps you hooked – this is the crux of what Bollywood has to say
Everyone loves Akshay Kumar’s performance in the film
“Entertaining court room drama with a relevant story,” said Sidharth
Shraddha Kapoor to play Aamir Khan’s love interest in Thugs of Hindostan?
As for the film Thugs of Hindostan is an adaptation of the English novel ‘Confessions of a Thug’ written by Phillip Meadows Taylor, a compilation of a thug’s journey revealed to him by a certain thug named Syeed Amir Ali. The film is about thugs and thieves who murdered travellers for valuables and is set in the backdrop of 1839 British India.
If they are considering her, then the female lead doesnt have much to do in this film. Which makes sense in a film about thugs. The main theme will likely be the chor-police game between the thugs and the British empire, which should be a hoot. A full blown romantic subplot is hardly needed in such a film.
It is quite funny how Boi and Koimoi are behaving . Boi is calling Srk as the best thing happened in January while Koimoi calls Kaabil as first superhit of 2017! No credit for Airlift which started the trend.
BO update: Akshay Kumar’s Jolly LLB 2 starts on a moderate note; business to pick over weekend
The past couple of weeks have been tumultuous ones for the Akshay Kumar starrer JOLLY LLB 2 with petitions being filed against the film. However, braving all odds, the film which is a sequel to the Arshad Warsi – Boman Irani starrer JOLLY LLB that released in 2013, released today.
Opening to a moderate start with occupancy rates being pegged at approximately 35% JOLLY LLB 2 seems set to enjoy a rather good weekend. In fact the film that has received positive reviews and equally good word of mouth will witness a spurt in business over evening and night shows. Aiding the business further is the fact that JOLLY LLB 2 faces little to no competition this week, given that the previous releases including DANGAL are on their last leg in cinemas.
All in all, with a vacuum in entertainment after the previous two releases, viz. RAEES and KAABIL fading from theatres, JOLLY LLB 2 is set on having a stellar weekend.
Jolly LLB 2 Has Average Opening
Friday 10 February 2016 12.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Jolly LLB 2 had an average opening of around 25% with North India being a little better but overall the opening is not up to the mark as far as morning shows go. The first Jolly LLB film released in 2013 was successful but not enough that the film became a brand and the audience would run to watch a sequel / series film. The film was banking on the star power of Akshay Kumar but that has not really worked as it probably be one of Akshay Kumars lowest first days in recent times unless there is a big turnaround in the evening. The opening is much lower than Housefull 3, Rustom and in the same range as Airlift but that film picked up very well post the afternoon shows.
The film had pretty high expectations in the industry which were not really commensurate with its theatrical trailer. Jolly LLB 2 looked a small film with a big star and that was where the problem was. The cost of the film may be high but it did not show in the trailer and for the audience there has to be a look for the film. The collections for the film in Mumbai circuit are not good in the morning and that circuit could prove a problem even in the long run. West Bengal is very poor and not even in Kaabil range which had Raees to contend with. The hope for the film will be North India as collections here are slightly better than other parts and the area does sustain well but for that the reports will have to be decent.
The other release Hind Ka Napak Ko Jawab – MSG 2 had a low start barring some centres of Haryana nd Punjab.
Dangal At 374 Cr After Seven Weeks
Friday 10 February 2017 11.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Dangal (Hindi) grossed a solid 1 crore nett apprx in week seven to takes it total to near 374 crore nett. The business week seven is no where record levels with Gadar at nearly 5 crore nett and Lage Raho Munnabhai, Raja Hindustani and Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge all close to 3 crore nett but of recent films it is the best beating the 70 lakhs nett of Tanu Weds Manu Returns. Bajrangi Bhaijaan was 65 lakhs nett and PK was 45 lakhs nett. Dangal should hang around for a couple of more weeks and finish at around 375 crore nett. The business of Dangal (Hindi) till date is as follows.
Lol @BOI. First Dangal should end at 360, then 365, then 370, then max 1 or 2 crs more, now 375. They are like this f*ing thing doesn’t end, so lets compare it with BO collections of baba adam days (possibly inflation adjusted) to somehow show its not great in some way. How about this being highest Feb 3rd to Feb 10th week grosser??..Lol
ya dangal has got them frustated to ultimate level.even i remember they started it with 360cr.even i was saying at that time it wld do 370-375 cr.now they r comparing 7th week collns to a much much smaller releases/single screen era releases.
The official trailer had been trending and been watched rapidly over the internet and in cinemas. Taking offense to the same, for and for portraying that Bata is adorned only by lower strata of society and one should feel humiliated if one wears Bata footwear.
As Bata India Limited is extremely sensitive and watchful of any attempt which undermines the reputation of the brand or which is aimed to damage and disrupt the brand identity.
The company filed a Suit for Permanent Injunction restraining continuance of Defamation, Commercial Disparagement and Infringement of Trade Marks and damages for 3 Crores against Fox Star Studios, writer Director Subhash Kapoor and others.
The said suit came up for hearing before Hon’ble Mr. Justice Rajiv Sahai Endlaw Judge, Delhi High Court on 24.01.2017 when faced with the suit, the Counsel appearing for Fox Star Studios and Hotstar informed the Court that their clients have taken a decision to discontinue the impugned trailer with immediate effect and shall not include the impugned scene in the film. They also assured the Court that they shall issue immediate instructions for pulling down the impugned trailer from internet. Upon such statements, the suit for permanent injunction was decreed in favour of Bata while the Suit for Damages has been allowed to be continued and defendants have been issued summons to respond to the same.
Superstar takes his gig fee in the form of movie tickets; Other A-list actor’s film continues to inflate numbers – Guess Who
As the week has come to an end, a popular magazine has carried yet another juicy blind item in their column written by a journalist. This one was an easy crack for us and was a tad shocking. Can you guess whom are they talking about here?
Here’s what the blind reads:
The box-office war between two recent films, each starring a top male star, has been heating up to the point that it’s gotten ugly. Insiders are saying the father-son team behind one of the films has been inflating their collections so much it’s not even funny. While it’s common practice in Bollywood for producers to add a few crore to their actual box-office numbers, trade pundits are saying the makers of this film have exaggerated their numbers by nearly Rs 20 crore. The objective, it appears, is to claim that the film has crossed the Rs 100 crore mark. However, experts say the film’s final tally will peter out well before hitting that benchmark.
Meanwhile, the other star producer is reportedly leaving no stone unturned to show massive collections for his own release. While there is no question that his film has a sizeable lead over the other movie, some have sniggered at the methods he may have employed to achieve this. One insider says the star, who recently performed at a private wedding for a top industrialist family, asked that his Rs 1.5 crore fee be paid in the form of block-booked tickets for his film.
damn PK did 19.38m$ in china and HNY did 0.21m$.LOLLLL.I hope livewire is also reading this as he thought china is a cakewalk for every ara gera nathu khera.china is not inian diaspora.it’s the real overseas market.,same with japan and korea.SRK realeasing it on more than no. of screens by hook or crook wld get collections too.HNY realeased on 5000screens and collns 0.21m$(less than 1.5cr) an all time disaster.PK released on 4600screens btw.
hmm, piece of advice – dont taunt livewire about China BO figures until Tubelight comes out. It is a joint Indo-Chinese production like Kung Fu Yoga (which has done $180 million in China so far). I dont expect Tubelight to make nearly as much given the theme and characters are mostly Indian but it should still do well
It’s true, US, UK, UAE are just NRI markets. Heck Germany reports are well overrated too. I lived in Munich for 6 months, many Indians work there. We even started a local Indian group to eat at restaurants, watch films. In Austria when skiing we ended up residing in an Indian restaurant! All this crap that a certain star has opened global markets is hogwash, it’s just Indians in these places or Pakistani’s etc. Indians are fascinating travellers like the Irish. Be assured every big city in the world will have an Irish pub and an Indian restaurant.
Well partly it has to do with Aamir’s chaptaa face and somewhat ‘chinky’ features so they may be finding him closer to their own race 🙂 🙂
It’s painful to write, however since you took my name in your comment, let me give it a bit of background and offer some explanations. There was a movie named 3 Idiots where the core theme of education / stress / excellence resonated with chinese youths and a market was developed. In fact that whole Chinese- Japanese – Korean chinky belt lives under greater performance related stress than us Indians so they found a connection in this social commentary.
PK is just an extension of the same fears and the society there lays too much emphasis on religion thereby undermining the quality of life due to fear of unseen god from atheist point of view.
chal acha don’t be that serious i was just jocking.so,u agree aamir is like 1-10 in china as far as bollywood goes.i know all the reasons and agree that 3Idiots was the base on which aamir’s popularity is there in china.though PK is certainly not an extension of 3Idiots.if 3Idiots had got released there earlier,god knows sky wld have been the limit.by the time it got released,everyone had seen it online.
True TL will be a interesting case study. Sometime back the anti China sentiments ( due to nsg ) were hitting Indian shores but it has subsided for the time being so hope the theme does not ruffle desi feathers during the time of its release .
Also to add PK had footfalls of 42-43 Lacs in china.that’s mammoth.Worldwide FF of PK are 4.28 cr.most watched bollywood movie WW in last 16 years or so.dangal shld beat that after china though.
They too have this problem about male / female babies and pressure to get a male child which has gotten exasperated due to one child policy of china. So women empowerment is pretty ripe there too.
In fact that theme resonates to most part of the world.
I have no idea on numbers and never got in the nitty gritty of actual numbers and just follow the trend. Dangal is a universal theme for the subcontinent so it will have a go. Aamir has built his base and paid few visits there so it should work.
However my vote for Oscar nomination to represent india will still go to Neerja as the subject matter is very international and terror threat (or the talk of terror threat ) is ripe.
@aamirsaurabh-“do u think TL can do the same for salman what 3I did for aamir?
From the latest stills, we know the kid is oriental looking. Since the actress is Chinese actor,I am guessing there is some sort of sexual intercourse if not outright marriage/family angle to the kid….
Too many unknowns at the moment… If movie is war based and anti china so possibilities of acceptance across the border is less. However knowing Salman progressive leanings it’s going to tilt towards human drama….. in that case it may open a new market for not only him but hindi cinema.
“Since the actress is Chinese actor,I am guessing there is some sort of sexual intercourse if not outright marriage/family angle to the kid”
What a remarkably astute observation…
by the way on…. “I am guessing there is some sort of sexual intercourse”
one doesn’t often hear this term outside crime shows (or legal proceedings) these days! But don’t you think that in a world of ghost drivers the possibility of immaculate conception ought to be entertained?
The fun is in throwaway details. The judge editing his daughter’s wedding card in the court is a priceless moment. The strategic if trifle stretched jokiness in calling Jolly’s (as in Rajesh Khanna’s real life son-in-law) wife Pushpa elicits giggles. Then in a little gem of a scene Kumar makes rotis for his family. In one shot it captures yet subverts an ethos so effortlessly that I easily forgave the atta and oil brand placements in there.
Jolly LLB 2 is a winning combination of a big star who spearheads a grassroots world
There are two aspects to Jolly LLB 2: the big and the small. On the one hand is the overarching story of an innocent branded a criminal, of the common man having to suffer at the hands of a powerful and corrupt system. Then there is the committed big star (Akshay Kumar in the titular role), sincerely shedding the trappings of stardom, at times deliberately restrained yet delivering filmi justice and the big message against the system—administrative as well as religious—in a populist and predictable, stereotypical and sentimental yet entirely forceful and successful way.
Jayshah , it’s nothing to do with Salman but the Actress Zhu Zhu who may her own market and reach. In fact if well tapped it may open doors for bollywood to even her international audience as she is part of Hollywood projects like The Man with the Iron Fists( Russell Crowe), Last Flight and a few others American TV series.
Her good looks can titillate and tease us Indians too. Have a dekho in the link…..just imagine how Satyam has run his imagination wild with a simple unadulterated / pristine ‘phrase’ I used here and it gets a totally different twist to the ‘plot’…. Lol, so is that all to my numerous comments? 🙂 🙂
“However knowing Salman progressive leanings it’s going to tilt towards human drama….. in that case it may open a new market for not only him but hindi cinema.”
that was your earlier comment…
“it’s nothing to do with Salman but the Actress Zhu Zhu who may her own market and reach.”
One could be forgiven for thinking you were only talking about Salman earlier! of course if it’s all about a Chinese actress that doesn’t exactly open up markets does it? In other words if native Chinese are showing up for a Chinese actress presumably they won’t when it’s an all-Indian cast? or do white Americans start showing up for every Hindi film with Priyanka Chopra after Quantico?
But all is not lost. You can count on BOI to discover ‘China’ with Tubelight even if they didn’t think this was another country when Aamir’s films released there. After release and if it does well there I’m sure you’ll forget about Zhu Zhu too!
Once again lost in translation and usual word play.
Two different things – Salman’s progressive leanings will ensure movie does not have a anti china or anti this or that agenda. I am guessing this based on his image and perception on social equality and for the less fortunate.
If above holds true, then the neutral plot will not keep Chinese averse to this movie.
Second point about opening up the market there is totally part of the Zhu Zhu arena and her domain.
Of Course white Americans will not start showing up for every Hindi film with Priyanka Chopra after Quantico “but” Indians
will open up to the idea of American Quantico due to Priyanka and if they like the series may not be averse to checking out Blindspot (TV series) with Jamie Alexander ….so another American series will tap into the Indian market.
Karan Johar Is More Jealous and Dangerous Than David Dhawan: Govinda
First published: February 10, 2017, 4:52 PM IST | Updated: 7 hours ago
Karan Johar Is More Jealous and Dangerous
Govinda also revealed that in his over 30 years of career, Karan has neither called nor interacted with him ever.
Govinda, who is making his comeback with Aa Gya Hero, is currently busy with the promotion of the film. The actor who ruled the hearts of the audience and box-office alike in the 90’s went through a hard time in 2000’s. While the actor has openly dissed his long-time friend and ‘No.1’ director David Dhawan for not supporting him through his hard times, the actor recently opened up about Bollywood’s most ‘friendly’ filmmaker Karan Johar.
In an interview given to Pinkvilla, the actor opened up about never being invited to Karan’Johar’s chat show Koffee With Karan. The actor said, “He must have said that it would be a matter of national respect for him if he calls Govinda, but he is releasing Varun’s (Dhawan) film just a week after my film. He shows that he’s very humble and innocent, but woh mujhe David (Dhawan) se zyaada jealous and zyaada khatarnak lagta hai”
Govinda also revealed that in his over 30 years of career, Karan has neither called nor interacted with him ever.
“He doesn’t see actors who are not the part of his group and doesn’t even say a hello, I doubt. He’s not that kind-hearted. It’s a well-planned and smart move by Karan that he’s releasing his film a week after mine. Mujhe woh kabhi seedha nahi lagta hai.”
Well looks like Govinda isn’t pleased with Karan’s decision to release Badrinath Ki Dulhania a week after Aa Gya Hero. The actor also spoke about his sour realtionship with David Dhawan and responded to the comparisions made between him and new age actors Varun Dhawan and Ranveer Singh. http://www.news18.com/news/movies/karan-johar-is-more-jealous-and-dangerous-than-david-dhawan-govinda-1347521.html
Even presuming that Govinda has a lot of potential untapped as an actor, his continuous harping & barking don’t seem to help his case in any which way possible as his unnecessary & senseless rants against David Dhavan appear to suggest his confused state of mind!! And why pick Karan for not inviting him on KWK as it’s his show & he has the right to call whosoever he likes & shares a good rapport as his show is not to showcase talent but about gossip & light talk!! How much respectful & generous was Govinda towards his seniors & juniors when he was at the top is not a secret!! So why suddenly this rona-dhona to paint others in bad light when he himself was worse than them during his heydays & now behaving as if all of them backstabbed him by reneging on their promises made to him!! I hope he should take a cue from Amitabh Bachchan’s life as he despite at the nadir of his career & life never did badmouth anyone for his fate & accepted his destiny so graciously without smearing others reputation. And AB’s financial state was 100 times worse than that of Govinda as he was under massive debt yet he without belitting others fought hard to reach where he is & set an examplary precedent for the generations to come in dealing with inner demons & winning them over emphatically without making them public
yes that is sad that he is doing such third class stuff. But my point is if some good banner (like yrf in case if Kill Dill) back him, he has potential to redefine his career. See his killer act in this recent stuff .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn6HPDltaWk
I don’t see him stooping lower than Bachchan who seems to be begging before KRK for making his upcoming film hit.
Grow up man! Don’t be so harsh on an actor who entertained the people like nobody else. This is the human nature and humans behave like this way only during crises. I am not against even Bachchan for doing all Krk praising as the same is order of the day.
Damn some of the comments on TL are outright funny. My advice to Livewire is not to divulge too much of the plot of it :). Anyways yes with its Chinese Actress thing, this will be a big ploy to get the Chinese Market Opened up. We will see how Dangal does in its release.
Jolly LLB 2 Is Below The Mark On Day One
Friday 10 February 2017 23.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
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Jolly LLB 2 was below the mark on day one with collections of 11-11.50 crore nett as per early estimates. the collections are similar to Airlift released last year but Jolly LLB 2 has a far wider release. The film did do a bit better in the metros in the evening but it remained low at most centres.
It has managed good business in East Punjab and Delhi city while UP could have been better. Rajasthan and CI are average but circuits like West Bengal, Nizam / Andhra are dull with low collections. These circuits have recorded day one numbers that are lower than Kaabil and that film was not a solo release.
Its going to be about how well the film can grow on Saturday as a 40 crore nett weekend is a must for at least a respectable weekend and then a strong hold on Monday can give it a chance to get a good two week run. The film probably has better chances in East Punjab and Delhi due to a better start but these circuits scoring alone will not be good enough for this film. The Mumbai circuit will be all important and it will be crucial that this picks up very well over the weekend. It will be on Mumbai / thane and Pune city to do the work in the circuit as Gujarat / Saurashtra and the other centres of Maharashtra are unlikely to find favour with this type of content wven though it is star driven.
first one Jolly LLB did overall 37 cr – that will be done in flat 3 days – shd be 15-20 cr each Sat-Sun – so we have a 40+ weekend and around 70+ weekend – given the low production costs – it is already a hit
SRK – Why do you keep embarrassing me at box office? What’s your secret?
Aamir – That thing in the post which is usually like a big book with lots of writing. I read it. It usually has a summary at the top before details.
SRK – Oh! But I edit the summary, no romance or songs – what’s the fun in that? And I don’t have time to read it all. Cricket, concerts, weddings, parties, family & Priyanka keep me busy.
Aamir – My advice. Read it first, then edit it. Good luck next time. Oh and say hi to Salman. He keeps saying he’ll catch up with me one day for many years now. I keep waiting, always short changing me and everyone!
SRK – You know Salman. If it isn’t a bird, or a car he usually stays at home on Twitter getting drunk. Now he wants my help but I can only give 10 mins, he said that’s enough for us both – whatever that means.
BOI has now changed Day 1 to 12 Cr while Taran is at 13.5.
This is now a reasonable difference. Earlier it was too high to be taken seriously.
Saturday morning opening is at 40 percent compared to 25 percent yesterday. This means LLB 2 is expected to grow to 16 -17 cr level on Day 2 which will be at par with Airlift jump. No holiday will come as a deterrent to reach 100 cr now.
They should start “manufacturing” their own labels with so much proficiency in calculation & it would be an instant hit with people fighting to get hold of “miracle device” which multiplies & adds even without asking for it!!
Kaabil And Raees Third Friday Business
Saturday 11 February 2017 12.00 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Raees will now be doing limited business in the third week as the release of Jolly LLB 2 saw the film having a huge drop at the start of the third week. There will be growth over the weekend but business will be around 1.50 crore nett for the weekend if good growth comes over the weekend. The business of Raees till date is as follows.
First Week – 1,10,05,00,000
Second Week – 16,25,00,000
Third Friday – 30,00,000
TOTAL – 1,26,60,00,000 appx
Kaabil also had a drop in collections on its third Friday though now it is beating Raees comfortably but it is too late as the race is over. The opening of the film ensured the failure of the film. It should gross around 3 crore nett in its third weekend if the growth comes over Saturday and Sunday.. Below is the business of Kaabil till date
The film’s overall costs are reportedly around 45cr (including print and publicity). It was shot within 30 days. But the 45cr do not include Akshay Kumar’s fees. He will take a share in the profits. This can reportedly go up to 25cr.
So, 70cr is the minimum the producers need to aim at to ensure they are in the profit zone through theatrical run.
I do think that it is most probably going to work. But it is not a big enough film to become a huge grosser. If it does anything over 90cr, it surely will be a hit. But Akshay Kumar probably needs to come up with a bigger film in terms of banner, production values, marketing, publicity and star cast if he wants to go higher than his usual 110-130cr range.
Jolly LLB 2 does have the look of a small movie which is quite well-made and it seems to be liked. But its costs are in the same range as a movie like Piku for instance.
12-13 cr opening is fine for this film. As long as it gets to 110-130 cr range it will be a clean hit. If it gets to 130 cr then its further embarrassment for srk whose Raees is ending its run at 130 cr.
121.9 crore? Really? Did the total cross Raees yet? Now Roshan’s must be really proud of their invention. I think they are going to win Filmfare, an Oscar and a Nobel prize in physics for the advanced calculator and another Nobel prize for voodoo economics. This forumula can actually wipe out national debts and bring third world countries out of poverty. Amazing feat, just wait and watch.
Jolly LLB Does Very Well On Day Two
Saturday 11 February 2017 23.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
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Jolly LLB 2 has shown a very good trend on day two with growth of around 35%. The collections are in the 16 crore nett range which is a good collection from day two. This takes the two day total to 28 crore nett which puts it in a much better position than it was on after the first days collections.
The growth has come in all the multiplex areas but crucially Mumbai circuit is looking at growth of 40% which was very important as a good number can’t really come if either one of Mumbai or North is not collecting. Here North India (except UP) was good enough but Mumbai was not.
The film is set in UP but that region is not doing that well especially compared to East Punjab and Delhi city which remain the best regions for the film. Now it will be down to the Sunday, if this sort of growth is repeated than the film will be on course to be a HIT. The growth of the film is similar to Airlift last year at a slightly higher level.
There are places like Nizam / Andhra, West Bengal and Bihar which are still low despite the growth but with main circuits at good levels on Saturday the film can afford for these circuits to under perform..
Champaign time for Akshay Kumar and his core fans and neutral fans.
An immensely liked hit movie is equivalent to a dream. This is fourth in the trot though will not put Housefull 3 in immensely liked category.
Media narrative is going to change for Akki now the way it was in 2007. 10 years hence. Hope studios don’t come in again and our money on him, increase the budget and make his movies flop and disliked. This is what happened with him then. He is more clever now.
The second installment in the Baby franchise, Naam Shabana traces Shabana’s journey of becoming an intelligence officer. The film stars Manoj Bajpayee as her handler, who is also the film’s narrator. He assures Shabana (Taapsee) to give her all the information and help she needs but in return, she has to do a job for them. They send one of their best officers to train Shabana, who is none other than Akshay Kumar! Taapsee impresses with her action while Akki makes an appearance towards the end of the trailer and packs a punch with his dialogues. The film, produced by Neeraj Pandey and Shital Bhatia under the banner of Friday Filmworks, also stars Anupam Kher, Danny Denzongpa and south film actor Prithviraj Sukumaran.
Buzz is that this action spy thriller is inspired by the life of a RAW agent by the same name. We wonder if the trailer is so gripping, what the film would be like! Guess we have to wait with bated breath until 31st March for that!
I do remember the film (Thanedaar) worked primarily thanks to the song. But still, Jumma Chumma was better.
Looks like a poor version of the Bappi Lahri song. Have music directors ran out of ideas these days? Very few memorable songs coming out and lots of old songs being re-made. Music in Hindi movies has hit an all-time low.
Saurabh Shukla is getting rave reviews for his performance in the first Hit of 2017- Jolly LLB 2
“A lot of credit for my performance in Jolly LLB 2 goes to Akshay as he was my co-actor as well as Annu Kapoor. If you like my performance in the film, it is due to these two actors. Akshay is a bigger star in terms of trade value. That’s completely a different area. But apart from being a star, he is a wonderful actor. That is his prime job. Akshay Kumar has time and again proved himself as an actor,” said Saurabh in an interview with indianexpress.com.
Karan Johar says Ajay Devgn shouted at him, said nasty things
Filmmaker Karan Johar has said he is tired of the speculations around his personal life to an extent that he is now “afraid” to go out even with a “man” friend.
he 44-year-old director, who recently made some revelations about his personal as well as professional life in his autobiography ‘An Unsuitable Boy’, said he gets linked to every man he is spotted with and it makes things tough for him, in an interview to News 18.
“I’m afraid to go out for dinner with another man because the paparazzi reaches everywhere and if you go out for dinner with a man, you’re sleeping with him. Because two men can’t be out for dinner just as friends,” said Karan.
The filmmaker opened up about his fall-out with best friend Kajol in his book and gave out further details saying that actress’ husband Ajay Devgn said “nasty” things to him even before the ‘Ae Dil Hai Mushkil’ and ‘Shivaay’ box office clash.
“Ajay Devgn called me and shouted at me and said some really nasty things because he heard at a party that I’d said some things about his wife. She was one of my closest relationships, as close as family could get, but it got unpleasant.”
“Ajay said I’d bribed a trade analyst to write bad things about his film and praise mine, then he put out a statement saying there should be an investigation and she retweeted it saying ‘SHOCKING’. And that was it… I don’t want to say anything more, but yes one thing I’d like to say & I stand by it is that this is not a phase, a feeling that will change. No matter what, she’s out of my life.”
For kaabil,3-4 fig. are circulating.BOI is 82-83cr with below average/flop verdict,BH is having 99.82 cr with hit verdict,Koimoi is giving 121cr with superhit verdict.diff bw koimoi and BOI fig is almost 47-48%.that’s crazy.with this difference dangal wld be abt 550cr nett.(from hindi versions alone) and 570cr nett with regional versions included.
Last time i knew indian theatrical biz. decides verdict.BOI wld follow this theory for all actors except SR.SRK verdicts r skewed big time.Below data is purely from BOI.
1.devdas budget-44cr,how can it be hit at 41cr.
2.KANK budget-48cr,how can it be semihit at 44cr.
3.ra1 budget-130cr,how can it be hit at 114cr.
4.MNIK budget-85cr,how can it be hit at 72cr.
5.HNY budget-150cr,how can it be superhit at 178cr.
6.Dilwale budget-165cr,how can it be semihit at 139cr.
7.raees budget-127cr,how can it be hit at 130cr.
All above films except HNY are average or below.HNY is also at max semihit/hit.
Jolly LLB Second Day Business
Sunday 12 February 2016 11.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Jolly LLB 2 had a good trend on Saturday as it showed growth of 35% to collect around 16.25 crore nett. This takes the two day total to 28.25 crore nett which overall for a two day total is just about decent but the trend on Saturday gives it potential to add well on Sunday and hold on Monday.
The growth on Saturday of the film is very similar to last years Akshay Kumar starrer Airlift as that film also showed growth of aroumd 35% but the collections on day one were also around 1 crore nett lower than Jolly LLB 2.
Friday – 12,00,00,000
Saturday – 16,25,00,000
Grand Total – 28,25,00,000
Jolly LLB did well in North on day one (barring UP) and continued to do well there but crucially it was Mumbai circuit which showed more growth. The first day was low in Mumbai but it went up by around 40% to have a decent day. The film is set in UP but the state did not do well on day on day one and single screens in UP remained low on day two but Lucknow where the film is set showed growth of nearly 50% on Saturday.
Voter turnout in the big mass centers of UP was 65% yesterday, but off course, BOI will carefully avoid mentioning UP elections as being the cause for the low collections from UP!! Only their preferred stars get the kid-glove excuses of various pujas, shraads, fasts, feasts, political issues, etc. etc.
if i remember correctly,they never mentioned demonetization for dangal,but r always ready with excuses for srk films,for dilwale they r saying 15% collns were lesser due to intolerance remark,but never mentioned the same for dangal while compaign of intolerance remark was much more greater against aamir.their hypocisy is in front of everyone.china which is a real overseas market as it doesn’t have indian diaspora is not an overseas market for BOI.they were in a shock of a lifetime when they saw collns of HNY and PK in china.
Have you watched the film? If not what’s the point of reading that review from Rangan? Not that his review is bad (in fact it’s really good) but it’s filled with spoilers. Basically lists out most of the goodies from the film.
Saw it. Not the best plot in the world but some nice small town atmospherics and a superb performance from annu kapoor. Akshay is reliably good. I wasn’t sold on the plot and didn’t think the case was all that cleverly unveiled. Things happen conveniently. But this is that rare film where the second half is vastly better than the first half, which is plodding and dull. Second half is action packed and very engaging. Good to see a film set in UP, but for me the gold standard is main meri patni aur woh set in lucknow. The problem is jolly is not a piku or kapoor and sons in terms of edygyness and neither is it big scale entertainment. This one is in the middle. But a good attempt anyway.
I found it to be ok…it’s much weaker than the first film. It’s a courtroom drama in full masala mode. There are pluses in the form of some select performances (Annu Kapoor, that vastly underrated gem of an actor and, of course, Saurabh Shukla) but overall, it’s a pretty generic fare. Akshay Kumar is better than his other dramatic roles, but that’s not enough. Especially when he stands and delivers his lines next to great actors — even if they happen to be supporting characters.
I’ve lost my appetite for grandstanding dramas with rabble-rousing speeches (Pink is more to my liking, as far as courtroom dramas go), so that might have played a role. The message that’s conveyed in the film is a liberal one — and I should be happy that it’s being conveyed, but being a true cineaste (or so I’d like to think), the delivery is quite important as well. I don’t like my buttons being pushed without my liking. And I also prefer actors who are really good — like deeply moving, emotionally affecting, good. Sadly, as it stands, Akshay Kumar doesn’t fall into this category — even if he is quite serious about his offbeat attempts.
Arshad Warsi, without an iota of doubt, was the better Jolly between the two. Warsi has a distinctive style, and he’s probably better suited to playing small town characters (Ishqiya comes to mind) but he’s also a good actor — lest we forget, one who is equally adept at comedy…and also serious dramas. Jolly’s character (which essentially remains the same in both films) combines the two facets, and while Akki can pull off comedy well, he isn’t quite convincing in the more serious parts of the movie.
Unfortunately for him, if your big break is Circuit…it’s pretty hard not to be “typecast” so quickly. And even if people think he can be great in comedies, he’ll never hit the buttons or heights of Circuit in other roles for some people. There is one great scene in LRM where Munna apologies to Circuit where Warsi is in top form in an emotional scene. He hardly talks but he shows his worth as an actor.
I think Ishqiya is definitely Arshad Warsi’s best performance to date. He was as good, if not better, as Naseeruddin Shah in the film. Perfected the Bhopali dialect as well. This is the film that made him an actor, I think.
Have not seen LLB2.
But court room drama of Jolly LLB was definitely better than Pink.
– In fact court in LLB was shown in a way never seen before.
LLB 1 scores in Pink in following areas
– Judge has never been shown as realistic as LLB. Don’t even know if the Judge had any role in Pink to this significance.
– LLB had a very strong lawyers which usually is not done in many movies incl Pink. They make the hero steal the thunder. Who was the lawyer opposite Big B in Pink?
So those saying court drama of Pink was better need to see Jolly LLB.
Check out Reviewmonk. Pink has an overall (combined) rating of 8.1 (the highest I’ve seen of any Hindi film, in recent times barring Dangal) whereas Jolly LLB2 is at 6.3 — still positive, and I have no objections to that, but in no way comparable to the former.
This does not prove anything, just to be clear, but at least the critical consensus points towards a different direction.
A few other points:
1) The courts presented in the two films are different because the settings are different. One film is set in UP; the other is set in Delhi. There are bound to be differences between a court in a small town of UP and a bigger court in New Delhi.
2) The judge in Pink is played by Dhritiman Chatterjee. He’s acted in films made by Satyajit Ray and Mrinal Sen, and was in effect, quite good — given the constraints of his role. He did not have an author backed role like Saurabh Shukla.
3) The defence lawyer in Pink was played by Piyush Mishra, another theatre veteran and Anurag Kashyap favourite. He wasn’t bad either…just that he couldn’t stand up to Bachchan.
I was comparing LLB 1 with Pink.
The former won the national award for best film.
Latter won Amitabh the national award.
So as a movie LLB will always score. Take Big B out of Pink and the court drama will be disengaging.
That’s the power of LLB- the entire cast – Boman, Warsi, Shukla gave a Stellar performance… In fact all were author backed. This is why LLB as the movie scores higher.
Why would I like to pull down Akshay Kumar’s hit streak? If he’s getting hits, good for him… and the industry, as a whole, also benefits.
I’ve only mentioned, casually, that I prefer court room dramas like Pink…just in the way I prefer romance/period dramas like Lootera. These films operate on a different scale, on a different pitch, and I prefer their subtlety over the in-your-face dialoguebaazi of other films. It’s an aesthetic choice…one that I’ve made (or acquired!) perhaps late in the day, but this is the choice that I’m most comfortable with. I happen to think there’s great power in understatement…and that might not be everyone’s cup of tea. I definitely can relate to the last bit.
Having said that, I did mention Jolly LLB2 might be one of Akshay Kumar’s better dramatic turns — he certainly seems to be better equipped here compared to say Baby — but as far as I’m concerned, it’s not as good as the supporting actors in the film. There is a dissonance that’s visible. Jolly LLB2 is a movie set in UP and its scale should have matched its scope, which is precisely what the first film was about. Here the producers have gone big by casting Akshay Kumar in the lead role, and while that might fetch much bigger returns in the long run, it makes the film less true to its own roots. That’s the point I’m trying to make…
And FYI, as much as I liked Dangal (it’s quite moving in parts; really moving!) the distortion of facts in the latter half, to my mind, is quite troubling. It leaves a bad taste, even if I can understand the logic behind it.
I had been wondering about Saket’s “abstinence” on the blog just yesterday & was about to put in a comment about the same & today Saket obliged!! Great to see you back as I hold your views in very high regard even when in disagreement but such occasions are few & far between. Qalandar & Abzee are other 2 who are being missed inmensely for they bring such depth & insights which are rare & unique! Hope they are reading!!
Thanks a lot, myselfaamir…you are too kind! The holiday period always puts a break on my movie watching habits…and it takes a good while to get back to watching films again — especially Hindi films. I did watch Dangal though. Liked it quite a bit.
Your have a very reasonable & interesting take on almost all the topics from movies to cricket to politics ( the opium of the Indians!) . Hope you keep commenting with out taking such long sabbaticals!!
Surprising to see the short reviews here. It is opposite to what most critics had to say except perhaps some like BR. But the opening is due to Akki’s star presence which would not have been possible with Warsi.
Even BR said only Akshay among top stars could play Jolly so natually. He brings in Aamir’s stardom as hindrance for Aamir Khan to play such realistic roles. Don’t know why people underrate Aamir Khan. Didn’t the guy did a natural act in Dangal?
Naveen I don’t see BR’s comment with respect to Akshay’s being more suited to play Jolly than Aamir as in the same review he pointed out “wattage” Khans have which comes in the way accepting them play small town & real characters . They have this huge halo & aura around them which makes it very hard for the audience to “accept & digest” them playing such roles & Aamir is exception to it as what he did in Dangal was very earthy & real and if audience had not invested their trust in his character, Dangal would not have been such a roaring success as his character was not out & out heroic but his girls played the real heroes to compensate their father’s lack of heroicness. The biggest advantage Aamir has is that he doesn’t have an image which affords him to play characters which, from the outside, might look highly unlikely to be pulled off by him but due to audience’s blind trust in his capabilities as an actor for whom he could play any role ranging from Munna to Bhuvan, ACP Rathore to DJ, Aakash to Sanjay Singhaniya, Sanju to Sahir, PK to Rehaan, Nikumbh to Mangal Pandey which is the result of years of perseverance & passion. But Akshay has been making some very unconventional & bold choices
since 2014 which would take some more time to yield “desired results” as Rome wasn’t built in a day!!
I found BR’s comments much more tongue in cheek and also genuine at sametime without any negatives for Aamir. There is halo as myselfaamir put it round some stars. I think Di framed it differently, but generally it’s true. Whether Aamir can play Jolly or not is irrelevant, reality is if Aamir did a film of that size automatically comes with baggage and more aspirations box office wise. He’s just in a different space as a star.
I mean if one likes his reviews, I’m surprised this opinion was so important to highlight. That view is irrelevant to the film made.
Let me put it this way: Aamir lived and breathed Phogat’s character in Dangal. The effort that he put in was clearly visible. I think he enjoys the process of transforming himself to play a cinematic character. Maybe he derives some spiritual catharsis out of it…maybe it’s just what comes naturally to him. The end result is, he spends too much time fussing over trivial things to make a character look more authentic – authentic being the keyword.
Contrast this to Akshay Kumar’s approach (this is not a slight on him; just an observation) – he works in 3-4 films in one year. There is no way he can get into the skin of a character even if he tried to, which perhaps isn’t his prime goal anyway. In Jolly LLB2, for a significant portion of the film, he carries a fake moustache. Yes, these things are noticeable (and people like me do tend to notice them!) and one can immediately sense the level of involvement he brings to this characters. It appears as if it’s his 9-5 job but it does appear as if acting is Aamir’s real passion. He might not be the greatest actor in Bollywood (he isn’t, IMO) but he brings a lot to the table.
That’s precisely why Rangan’s comparison is way off the mark! He might genuinely find Akshay Kumar’s portrayal of Jolly more ‘folksy’ or more in tune with the film’s setting, but that argument, even if it comes from Rangan, doesn’t hold much water…
It’s clear Aamir has filmmaker instincts and has transferred into acting.
I’ll draw a loose real life example that I saw on TV yesterday. The story of Pep Guardiola. He came in raw and young at Barcelona. Stayed loyal to the team. Was a member of the dream team of 1994. He lived and breathed Johan Cruyff’s footballing style and ethos. Eventually became captain. But most players admit before he left for Brecia in Italy, he was already a coach. On the training pitch he was directing young players to move a certain way, look before receiving the ball and stuff round positioning. It was very clear for those close to him that being a coach was his true coming. In fact he was one before he retired unofficially. He got his badges. Managed Barcelona B (by pure luck, Luis Enrique the current Barcelona boss was first choice). He won promotion. Barcelona were struggling, they sacked Frank Rijkiard. And actually Jose Mourinho was the man most in the board wanted. Joan Laporte trusted Pep. Got him. They lost their first match away. Drew at home next match. The knives were out.
Johan Cruyff wrote a very important piece in the newspaper saying Pep’s Barcelona are playing amazing football. They have just been unlucky. The rest as they say his history.
Pep made very unconventional choices as a player. A defensive midfielder is always one who shields the defense, however Cruyff’s philosophy was to have one who breaks play and sprays passes, essentially a playmaker.
Of course as a manager too Pep is unconventional. He transformed a winger to a false 9, arguably the greatest decision ever to give us Messi. He’s changed intensity in matches to incredible levels. His detailing is ridiculous, what you eat/when you eat/what you drink etc. He tolerates only hard work. Yet his teams play amazing football.
I’m not saying Aamir is great either just he seems to think more as a director/producer first like Pep was a coach before a great ‘quarterback’ style footballer. Obviously Xavi took over that mantle. Any football lovers should watch this show simply called Pep. He’s phenomenal.
There is fire in Aamir’s belly. That passion must have been galvanised by something, I’d assume being shunned by awards or media as a serious actor. Pep’s motivation is a philosophy to win playing the way he wants football to be played. Both passions are misguided at times to the point of boredom or analness. But sometimes the results are out of the park. Lagaan and Pep’s 2009 Barcelona team for example.
I saw Jolly LLB 2 Part 2 first and liked it so much that I watched the Part 1 the very next day. Part 1 is slow, meandering and it’s obvious that the director does not have technical proficiency even though he has a unique vision of his own. The technical values of Part 2 are greater so its a treat to watch.
Akshay Kumar is much better than Arshad Warsi; Arshad is amiable and little else; Akshay has a manic controlled energy that sits for his great character.
Jolly LLB 2 is not supposed to be crime/law procedural with clever mystery and sleuthing like Western TV shows. It’s a satire and it’s plot is supposed to show the grey areas of law and create ample opportunities for chemistry of it’s odd ball characters. That it does admirably. The lawyers are not supposed to be Holmes-like sleuths pulling out one intelligent trick after the other but they are supposed to be like in real life, using draamebaazi, influence and plain street smarts in outwitting their rivals.
All in all, a great movie. Almost on par with Tanu Weds Manu 2 in terms of sheer delightful character moments.
It seems that we are having a new wave of desi directors who are extraordinarily adept in creating a desi Dickensian world of: Anand l Rai, Nitesh Tiwari and Subhash Kapoor. It seems the single theatre cinema is transforming in front of our eyes with a vengeance.
Very nice short review Prose. Am yet to see LLB2.
I saw LLB1 when it came on TV last month. I enjoyed that movie and felt Boman Irani was awesome and almost stole the show.
Arshad is a naturally gifted actor and has always given brilliant performance. While many will remember him for Circuit, I think as a Jolly he was even better than Circuit. His speech at the end of Jolly LLB was fantastic. Jolly LLB was a deserving national awards winner.
Will watch LLB 2 soon. The critics and audience have overwhelmingly given great reviews and feedback. Am happy for Akshay Kumar who even the poor reviewers’ god Mr Rangan gave the biggest verdict when he said even Aamir Khan could not have played Jolly better as Akshay doesn’t bring his star image when playing such roles.
ha ha – now Aamir’s name is used in a different way – but before Ghajini – no one could imagine in that Avatar – so who knows? Jolly is now a hit franchise and part 3 should have a new actor – why not Aamir then? try him out there
@Naveen — BRangan is not God, at least to me; in fact no critic is God; many often unwittingly display their human side, their biases. I would rather read a respected blog- review compared to some of our leading critics — who are often erratic in their statements. In any case, you have managed to twist Rangan’s actual words to suit your own end, of dismissing Aamir in relation to your favoured Akshay. The latter may well have done a good job in JollyLLB2 — but Aamir the star was missing in Dangal; all we saw was a Haryana guy, a wrestler. I have spent the eighties in Delhi and Faridabad — and all I saw on screen was one of my Haryanvi neighbours.
I once had a mild argument with a critic who had found the ARRahman music of Mangal Pandey quite ordinary. In point of fact, IMO, the music of MP was quite exquisite — but this critic ( who happens to favour a Harris Jayataj over mentor ARR) — was mocking in his assessment of ARR. So critics too write as per their biases.
What BR said actually was,
If you have to replace Warsi with a star, Akshay is probably the best bet. His wattage isn’t as bright as that of, say, the Khans. He’s good with drama, and he’s learnt to be funny without appearing forced – but he doesn’t overpower a role, because his star signature isn’t that distinctive. He blends into the folksiness. When you see Aamir Khan on a scooter in a village in Dangal, one part of you says, “Oh look, it’s Aamir Khan on a scooter.” That doesn’t happen with Akshay. He just looks like a man from these parts, with paan-stained teeth and the dream of opening his own practice.
Well, in that case, Hrithik and Saif look even more unconvincing riding a scooter or playing the common man. Maybe they are even bigger stars!
I don’t think BR is completely spot on here. Aamir nailed it as Phogat in Dangal. And Akshay Kumar has also portrayed the common man quite well at times, when given the opportunity. They are both versatile enough to do it.
Aamir with his weight gain and his short, almost military-style, haircut will always appear more authentic in my eyes! There was no part inside me who recognized Aamir Khan from say, Fanaa or Dhoom 3 playing Phogat. That statement from Rangan is misleading. Perhaps a bit mischievous as well…
Also for example if you review Manchester by the sea, the canvas is small. You can do justice to most part of the film. The point is, it is difficult to make movie which pleases all critics when the canvass is blockbuster. One such movie which comes to mind is Argentinian movie “The Secret in their eyes” or the Dark Knight series.
I consider Arshad Warsi a brilliant gifted as well as miserably underrated actor. In my opinion he’s in the same league as irrfan and tabu. Being in the same league means he can hold his own when cast with these actors not necessarily meaning he’s better or worse than them. He’s performance in Ishqiya films is wonderful and then he has underrated gems like Seher. When it comes to comedy he’s a genius ( Dhamaal, golmaal). Such a natural actor!
Having said all that I think Akshay did a fantastic, on charecter ( never projecting like a ‘star’ ) job in jollyllb2. He’s really matured as an actor.
not in the same league as IK and TB!!! and evenif he is – the later two have hardly managed BO hits on their own lately…..these are actors – but BO demands stars – so akki can do the entire business of JL part 1 in flat 3 days….
Akshay Kumar’s Jolly LLB 2 is at half way mark in its tryst to enter the 100 Crore Club. The film saw further push in collections on Sunday and brought in 19 crore* more. With this, the overall numbers now stand at 49.52 crore*. Just around 50 crore more need to come in now for the Subhash Kapoor directed film to go past the 100 crore mark.
The film, with its rustic touch and strong North Indian flavor, is finding very good footfalls, especially in Delhi NCR. This is where the film is maintaining very good stranglehold. Even though Akshay Kumar’s last release Rustom was a courtroom drama as well, that film had its best numbers coming from the Mumbai territory due to its regional set up.
Box Office – Akshay Kumar’s Jolly LLB 2 has a brush with 50 crore mark over its first weekend
Box Office – Akshay Kumar’s Jolly LLB 2 has a brush with 50 crore mark over its first weekend
Footfalls are not an issue for Jolly LLB 2 since good contribution is coming from the single screens as well, which have much lower ticket rates. That said, in the overall picture, it is the final outcome and the verdict that is remembered most. Recovery is not a challenge for Jolly LLB 2 due to its very strong pre-sales deals as well as profit sharing modeling. However, it is about how much moolah that would be eventually up there for grabs, which would garner most attention.
The way it is going currently, the film is in for a huge haul! All eyes are now on how well does the film hold now over the weekdays.
*Estimates. Final numbers awaited
Note: All collections as per production and distribution sources
Monday 13 February 2016 11.00 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Jolly LLB 2 picked up over the weekend to record a good first weekend. The trend of the film was solid on Saturday and Sunday. It has recorded weekend business of 47.25 crore nett which is fourth highest for Akshay Kumar after Housefull 3, Rustom and Brothers
Jolly LLB 2 has scored very well in East Punjab and Delhi / UP with the former recording weekend business of 6.04 crore nett and the latter has grossed 10.50 crore nett. The other circuits picked up well over the weekend but collections in places like West Bengal, Nizam / Andhra and Tamil Nadu / Kerala remained low. Mumbai picked up very well on Saturday and has grossed around 14.50 crore nett.
Friday – 12,00,00,000
Saturday – 16,25,00,000
Sunday – 19,00,00,000
Grand Total – 47,25,00,000 apprx
The film will face its acid test on Monday as although the weekend is good the opening day has cost it the sort of weekend which would have made a certain success. The film needs a good hold on Monday preferably better than the normal 50% drop to get a good lifetime total.
Just when one thought that after Raees v/s Kaabil one had left behind all the clashes, there is one which is all set to happen within three months of the infamous war that had erupted just a few days back. It would be the clash of a thespian [Amitabh Bachchan] with a relatively much younger actor [Jagga Jasoos] and rest assured; there would be a lot of noise en route their release together.
“That’s correct; Sarkar 3 is now arriving on the same date as Jagga Jasoos which is April 7. Even though Jagga Jasoos had been announced for arrival on this date many months ago and Sarkar 3 too had its eyes set on March release for quite some time, there has been a change in plans. The Ram Gopal Varma directed film is now arriving on this date, which also happens to be the filmmaker’s birthday, and there would be no step back on this,” informs our source.
Surprisingly, Ram Gopal Varma is not a man of birthdays and has always made his disdain around the relevance of this event in all platforms. However, call it coincidence or a well thought of promotional ploy but the day Ram Gopal Varma turns 55, his Sarkar 3 would hit the screens.
“This means Ranbir Kapoor will now face the might of Amitabh Bachchan”, a trade expert comments, “There are quite a few challenges that lie ahead now, though it may all get balanced out eventually. Jagga Jasoos has been a delayed product while Sarkar 3 has been a quickie. There is no comparison whatsoever in their budget either. Ranbir and Katrina shot for a major portion of the film post their break up while Amitabh Bachchan and Ram Gopal Varma have reunited after working in record seven films earlier. Ranbir comes fresh from the success of Ae Dil Hai Mushkil while Ramu is making a comeback with a biggie.”
That said, even though the talkie promo of Jagga Jasoos is yet to be unveiled (which would eventually manage to tell what exactly is this Anurag Basu directed fantastical tale all about), those who have had a dekko at Sarkar 3 promo vouch for the fact that it truly takes the spirit of Sarkar forward and is set to be a hard hitting account of the life and times of Subhash Nagre (the character played by Big B).
“While one waits to see that happen, the fact remains that a storm would definitely build up in weeks to come,” the source adds, “This year, most of the filmmaker have taken a conscious call not to clash with each other. What happened between Raees and Kaabil was not healthy and you don’t want a repeat of that. Hopefully, it would be all cordial in case of Sarkar 3 and Jagga Jasoos. However, it won’t be quiet for sure. Expect a lot of noise to be heard from far away for sure.”
Even after AAG .. Ramu has given thousand times better movies than Johars and Chopras .. Any day I can go for Sarkar Raj, Rakhta Charitra , NALS etc .. than likes of MINIK, ADHM and Befikre .. former are masterclass and later are mastercraps
Raees And Kaabil Third Weekend Business
Monday 13 February 2016 13.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Raees had a heavy drop in the third weekend as it collected 1.75 crore nett to take its total to 128 crore nett. The lifetime business of the film will finish a little short of 130 crore nett. The business of Raees till date is as follows.
First Week – 1,10,05,00,000
Second Week – 16,25,00,000
Friday – 30,00,000
Saturday – 60,00,000
Sunday – 85,00,000
Third Weekend – 1,75,00,000
TOTAL – 1,28,05,00,000 appx
Kaabil grossed 2.85 crore nett in its third weekend taking its business to 85 crore nett plus. It will manage to beat Raees in the third week by around 50% but its too late and the business will still stay over 40 crore nett below Raees in the final count. Below is the business of Kaabil till date
I wish All to see this video and share their thoughts.
I am extending the debate that Arshad was better than Akshay. I treat this debate in two ways. First I compare with SRK who played Don remake and when asked who is better Big B on original Don or he?
SRK had said to media which meant something like “Woh tumhara Zambia hai, aaj waqt hamaare hai”. Indirectly he meant to say he did better. Contrast this to what Alshay says in this interview.
Why I am bringing this here is a lot of times fans are created based on your humility. Fans remember these things. As a fan I may like Akshay in LLB 2 more(have not seen LLB 2, but just saying) but will always remember Akshay’s humility and big heartedness. In fact Arshad was quite upset with Akshay being in the movie. He vented his frustration then. But Akshay not only won him over, he gave credit of his performance to Arshad(quite rightly I would say) and won him over. No confrontation, only love and friendship.
Even when he passed on the award to Aamir, it was not a mischief but a heartfelt decision.
Even recently when asked why he doesn’t win awards, he just said “maybe I don’t deserve it”.
50 cr opening weekend is good start for Jolly LLB 2. It should get to 75 cr by end of week one. If it sustains in the second weekend, it will comfortably cross 100 cr and be the first hit/success of 2017.
There is news that Amitabh Bachchan accepted role in Ayan Mukherjee’s Dragon with Ranbir Kapoor and Alia Bhatt.
And Thugs of Hindostan shooting is delayed for few months as Aamir is working on some fine tunes.
I am not sure what to expect from both projects on terms of Amitabh’s role. I don’t want him to do character roles like he did in early last decade with Johar and chopra’s movies.
There is no news on Aankhen-2 , this also seems not happening sooner. Aankhen-2 is surely Bachchcan as central role. That’s the reason none of main stars (Ajay, Akshay ) agreed to do this movie and Gaurang settling with non-stars likes of Arshad, Arjun etc
Ditto with Sarkar-3 … Majority of cast is from old school (Jackie, Manoj, Ronit) .. though all solid actors.
He may do it for the novelty of it. An astronaut or cosmonaut. This shows that he is interested to do a film which may not be a bo blockbuster. Stars should experiment irrespective of boxoffice concerns.
or why not make it into a BO blockbuster by making the stand-by pilot a villain and that Rakesh Sharma had to do a fist fight at the last moment to somehow get into the rocket…? a la coach story from Dangal?
Dangal script was no way blockbuster material. Its just that Aamir has reached a point in his career where if he stars in a good film, all BO records can tumble. But i doubt if the Dangal team ever dreamt of it film making 387 cr.
Btw, since we dont know the script, its difficult to say what potential this Rakesh Sharma biopic has to turn out to be a good film. We can only trust Aamir’s judgemment here (if he signs it).
aapko bhee Di..
waisey contrast small town movies like Jolly, Do Dooni Chaar, Dum laga key etc. …with what the pervert Kashyap and his cronies make- – Haramkhor !!
Matlab samajh nahee aaya why was this atrocious movie got made .
bhak saala shock and awe karo !!
This should do be a case study on how review should be done. The depth that Raciah has touched upon makes me beleive how differently a person knowing the ground reality appreciated a political and judicial satire like Jolly LLB. Esp a must read for Saket whose thoughts I liked here.
Jolly LLB 2 Has Good Hold On Monday
Monday 13 February 2016 23.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Jolly LLB 2 has had a good hold on Monday as collections will see a drop of 45% apprx and be around 6.75 crore nett as per early estimates. The hold is good but the weekend growth did give the film hope for a better hold. The business of the film will be around 54 crore nett after four days. The Monday performance is the best of the year as the biggest opener so far Raees had grossed around 6 crore nett on Monday. The biggest plus for the film is that it is Valentines Day on Tuesday and this could give collections a boost. It may not be a romantic film but still the day has seem more footfalls come it then the other days around for the last few year.
This puts it in line to be the first hit of the year though it will have to hold after Valentines Day and more crucially it is the second Friday that will tell if the film becomes the first and only HIT of 2017 so far.
The collections picked up over the weekend in places like Mumbai, Rajasthan, CI and Mysore but these areas were down to low levels again on Monday. The North is driving the film and it has worked well especially in Delhi NCR and East Punjab. If it was a normal week without Valentines Day the film would be looking at 70 crore nett total but with a solid Valentines Day collection it could go a little higher.
Is Aamir Khan’s Rakesh Sharma Biopic Titled Salute?
Koimoi.com Team –
February 13, 2017
Aamir Khan, who tasted immense success with his last release, Dangal, is currently gearing up for his next, Thugs Of Hindostan with Amitabh Bachchan. Also, he has another project lined up, which is the biopic on Indian astronaut Rakesh Sharma.
Earlier, there was buzz that the film will be titled, ‘Saare Jahan Se Achcha’ but we now hear, the film is being titled as Salute. Aamir will be playing the role of Sharma, Indian’s first astronaut to go into space. He went on a mission that lasted for 27 days, 21 hours and 40 minutes.
Is Aamir Khan’s Rakesh Sharma Biopic Titled Salute?
Is Aamir Khan’s Rakesh Sharma Biopic Titled Salute?
The film will be helmed by Mahesh Mathais who is a well known personality in the ad world. Also the film will be produced under Roy Kapur Films which is the new production venture of Siddharth Roy Kapur.
Both Aamir and his production house have been in the news for this movie for a while now. I wont be surprised if he actually signs this. And i doubt he will sign this unless there is an interesting story and dramatization involved. Lets see.
Liked Jolly -2 quite a lot. Very close to reality and the backdrop that I grew up in.
Aside- My tau jee was a lawyer and his Munshi jee with no degree was a brilliant mind and used to write all the briefs for him.
Th Munshi jee’s one son was employed by my dad as a supervisorsin his business, and the other son became a lawyer ( although by that time my Tau jee had retired )
also there were some whispers I would hear as a kid- saara kaaam toh munshi jee kartey hain !!
Subhash Kapoor seems to knows the small towns of UP very well !!
Jolly LLB 2 Gets Big Boost On Tuesday
Tuesday 14 February 2017 23.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Jolly LLB 2 is set to emerge the first hit of 2017 has it got a big boost on Valentines Day get growth of around 30%. The collections will be in the 8.50-8.75 crore nett range and this will take the total to 62.50 crore nett. This boost in box office collections gives the film breathing space for the film as the week is going to 72 crore nett and now the eighth day can afford to drop a bit. The film will be a HIT unless the second Friday goes down badly.
The film was strong in Delhi NCR and East Punjab from day one and Valentines Day has acted like a national holiday in these parts as well as other metros. The day is getting bigger and bigger every year for box office collections and is now closer to a national holiday than most of the other non national holidays.
The jump was not there in smaller centres but overall most circuits managed gains ranging from 5-50% depending on the circuits. Most of the cities in circuits like Rajasthan showed the normal trend but the big cities like Jaipur and Udaipur which have key multiplexes grew well and ensured the circuit came out with a higher number than the previous day.
There will be a drop tomorrow but a 3 crore nett boost in collections on Tuesday does put the film in a good position and more than covers any weekdays falls that will come over the next two days.
Perhaps the best performance of Akshay’s career. Wud say it defn beats Pink in terms of the intensity courtroom drama and tactics.
Also, the release timing of this UP based realistic slice of life drama wrapped in satire, bang in the middle of the UP elections is simply uncanny. IMHO, the core message of the movie will kinda resonate with that being peddled by SP-Cong. Wonder if this movie will play any role in the election results.
Vijjie it’s all subjective and depends on mood. Half the magic here is Mohd Rafi & Lata Mangeshkar’s voice and basically the music director.
There are too many romantic tracks in hindi cinema to list here. But this one is an evergreen number more so when you see the little ones in the house start to move and shake when the song comes on TV.
This song also a tell-tale on times. I grew up never liking Rajesh Khanna. In fact most of us must have witnessed the worst stage of his hamming and his signature kurta/trousers fashion sense with that balding hairstyle…..esp when the alternative was angry young man with long, middle-parted hair, with thick sideburns sported in films like Don & Deewar….
Jump to 90s and romantic era is back and suddenly started to make inroads and RK seemed like Elvis. I do sympathize with Rishi Kapoor when he talks about how his career got killed by Bachchan and Maad Dhaadh era. He would be a force to reckon in 90s and even the last decade….
I think this fad /overdose of social commentary and hirani type satire of this decade is also going to be out of sync too esp lately BB, Sultan and the recent Jolly LLB mastering it deftly in small doses. That’s why a new Munna Bhai working is big question mark and proceedings may be too stale by the time it comes out.
On actors this era requires actors to talk less, remain silent on screen and it will be equated to genius acting…..hyper srk of kabhi haan kabhi na / yes boss is a big no today.
I never liked Devgan as an actor apart from his role in Company. That too isn’t a brilliant performance by any means.
Devgan’s two National Awards are atrocious but that’s nothing compared to Raveen Tandon winning for Daman or Karisma Kapoor winning for DTPH! Both awards were either bought or won due to political influence.
Livewire,by what time do u expect these social commentary formula movies ala 3Idiots,PK,Dangal to be out of sync.this wld definitely end supreme era of aamir for sure if this happens.poor guy is totally dependent on these type of superformula movies.
This isn’t based on overall test records, it’s solely based on “clutch” performances — key performances that were produced in test matches that decided the course of a series. What they call series defining performances.
Also, the minimum cut off is 40 innings for the top 7 positions. Batsmen who’ve played many more innings than 40 will be penalized because their SD/inning ratio will be less (this I believe is the most important factor behind the rankings, although there is other criteria as well).
AB De Villiers hasn’t played a lot of test matches (106, almost half of what Tendulkar has played) but he has 6 SDs. That’s a very high ratio compared to Tendulkar or say, Dravid.
Still, this throws up interesting names like Simpson & De Villiers, who comes in twice!
To be fair, more than one player can have an SD in the same match (bowlers more likely to have it than batsmen) and this isn’t a purely objective measure. It doesn’t take into account the cause and effect phenomenon (a bowling fightback could trigger a batting fightback or vice versa), but it does highlight a trend amongst players to handle pressure better than others. That’s the key takeaway from this list.
The other way to interpret this list is that Indian batsmen have been unlucky in the sense that the greatest ones never had a consistent bowling lineup. Had Kumble and Harbhajan been absent post-2000, they would have fared even worse. And Kumble/Harbhajan were not so effective in Australia, England and South Africa.
That’s a flaw in the system — it penalizes batsmen who played with weaker bowling units. A series defining performance in batting is also dependant on the team’s bowling resources.
It also ends up inflating fairly run of the mill knocks when they’re backed up by great bowling. A classic example is Kallis’ 115 in this Test being rated as a SD knock. Now this was a decent enough innings but he came into bat in a relatively comfortable situation (113-2) against a pedestrian attack at home. But because of Steyn’s 9-fer, it gets rated as a SD performance in the series-decider.
No wonder someone like Inzi who had moderate batting support but excellent bowling support ends up with an insanely good rating in this system.
Don’t expect BOI to change their nonsense mentality. ghajini,3Idiots,D3,PK,Dangal that’s 5 of his last 6 releases in 9 yrs, becoming HGOAT and 4 also becoming ATBB’s,meaning aamir dominating sallu in 5 out of 9 years,still for them aamir is hardly having any releases.5 out of 6 means almost everytime not sometimes.even SRK is not getting more than 1 release a year.as per them sallu became no.1 in 2010.how just by giving danbang a BB which was not even an ATHG and short of it by a long way. and also giving a classic veer that year which was below average and having an atrocious run till dabang.2008 had flop GTGH and disaster Yuvraj,in 09 sallu had just a hit wanted and flop London dreams and disaster MAMK.so how can he just become no.1 by giving one BB all of a sudden.consider this,aamir had 1 hit,1 superhit in 06 and superhit in 07 as well.then in 2008,he delivers ATHG ghajini and that too by a long shot.As per BOI logic,Aamir should be no.1 in 2008 itself,aamir has much stronger case than salman’s 2010.SRK is not even in running from 2008.
Even sallu is not delivering multiple BB every year as well apart from 2011,12.if 5 out 6 is some for them.2 out of 7 must be much lesser than some as per their logic(5 out of 6 is some for them for aamir).
2010-dabang and below average veer.
2014-Kick and underperformer Jaiho
2015-ATBB and underperformer just hit PRDP.
That’s a very valid point — especially with regards to Inzamam. The methodology used rewards, to a great degree, stand-out performers (batting-wise) in a team with decent or good bowling resources.
It’s easy, as you mention, to get an SD when there’s Dale Steyn in your team with a support act comprising of Philander and Morkel, and that too on lively South African pitches. But, having said that, Kallis’ innings in that particular instance has more substance attached to it. He came in at 113/2 and immediately after another wicket fell at the same score (Alviro Peterson). He then combined with De Villiers for a 100+ stand (De Villiers dominated the partnership) and after De Villiers fell, forged a 50+ stand with Duminy and another one with Steyn. When Kallis fell, the score was 384 and the team’s lead was 50 runs. He proved to be the fulcrum around which the South African innings was built. That’s not a bad outing to get an SD.
But what about Rahane’s 96 in India’s second innings? Out of a total of 223, he scored 43% of the team’s total. It’s much more central to a team’s cause but he loses out because his team lost! Kallis probably got more mileage for his innings compared to Rahane because his team won — thanks to Steyn & Co.
“The methodology used rewards, to a great degree, stand-out performers (batting-wise) in a team with decent or good bowling resources.”
Yep. And it seems to penalize not just great performances in a lost cause (like Tendulkar’s 136 and 3-45 vs Pak in Chennai ’99) but also actual match-winning performances if they feature in a lost series (like Sehwag’s monumental 201* vs SL in Galle 08′) as neither of these performances are rated as SDs.
Kallis’ 115 just seems innocuous in comparison. Heck Tendulkar scored a similar hundred against a much better attack in the series decider against Australia in 2001 but isn’t rated as SD 🙂
Still, I do believe that rating performances in a match/series context is the right way to go so do find it interesting to follow their reports. Btw, please check out this video where the founder of the system reveals Ashwin is highest impact player in Test History (even ahead of Bradman)!
Yes, saw that video about Ashwin. He is definitely more important to the Indian team compared to Kohli (this would be a blasphemous statement for some!). I wouldn’t go as far as calling him greater than Bradman because his is an ongoing career and Ashwin’s record outside the subcontinent isn’t that great. Let’s see where his career ends.
About that Tendulkar innings not being an SD, the SD was already given for the previous test in Kolkata (I believe there can only be one test in a series that constitutes an SD) — the most famous rearguard action in present times. The other thing is, Tendulkar isn’t the highest impact batsman in that test, from the Indian side. It’s VVS Laxman (for his second innings heroics of 66 out of 155/8). Mathew Hayden would be the highest impact batsman of the match for his 201 out of a team total of 391. Tendulkar failed in the second innings (match impact of less than 1).
Comparatively speaking, Kallis was the highest scorer in the match, even though he wasn’t the highest impact batsman — that would be Rahane. He got an SD because that test was deemed to be the defining moment of the series.It’s all consistent, but you’ve highlighted a grey area for cricket enthusiasts.
I also looked at Inzamam’s SDs. One of them is against Zimbabwe, one against Bangladesh and one against a mediocre New Zealand. That tempers his standing quite a bit.
Thank you for this this link with the all important ‘impact factor’. Cricket is unique in the sense that without any pressure the skill set do not hold much value. Batsmen accumulate runs like there is no tomorrow in tension free situations like some of our past Indian stalwarts have done.
I wish I had the writing skills like yours to convince so an An Jo would not be so upset with me for calling out Sachin on this. Look how Virat has changed the whole dynamics and probably the best pressure batsmen for India ever. Infact with pressure this guy gets more aggressive and combative and that is what all sports are all about from viewers point of view.
Tendulkar for the all the write ups he gets has broken our hearts more often than not. Used to get pissed badly most of the time as player esp during the days when India was playing Pak/ Aussie regularly esp crunch games. They would set a target of of 220 / 240 /260 whatever the scores for 50 over limited game were then and all eyes would be on the master blaster. It would be painful to see a Tendulkar dance around a Wasim Akram and Macgrath and eventually (most cases) leave early when needed leaving us all cold. The only worthwhile inning I personally enjoyed of his was the one against Shane Warne in Sharjah. Yes he must have hammered Akram and Macgrath a lot many times but ‘never’ in crunch matches.
That’s why i liked Aussies the most as they would make a game out of dead matches with their skills.
Q. It is written a few times on this website that Aamir Khan is behind Salman Khan because he has less volume of work but surely the highest grossers every year makes a difference?
A. Its not every year but some years. Every year would make a big difference but look at it now, Salman Khan could have three blockbusters or maybe even an All Time Blockbuster before Aamir Khan has a release. Not counting Secret Superstar as that is competing more with likes of Dear Zindagi and does not for a big superstar. Salman Khan does not really have competition right now. Aamir Khan is hardly there in terms of volume of films and Shahrukh Khan films are not getting the right results. This does not look like changing for sometime yet.
Q. What would be the business of Dangal if it had releases when Raees and Kaabil did?
A. Its impossible to judge if it clashed with another film but as it did 15% more than films like Bajirao Mastani and Dilwale combined released the Christmas before. Here you can say 30-40% more than Raees and Kaabil combined as Bajirao Mastani did find acceptance in some parts while Raees and Kaabil did not. 300 crore would probably be the upper limit.
Q. You are reporting on the website that the budget of Kaabil is 89 crore and Jolly LLB 2 is 84 crore but others are claiming just 40-50 crore for both films. There can’t be such a gap between real and fake budgets?
A. When films with Akshay Kumar and Hrithik Roshan can be made for 50 crore then everybody will run to this business but sadly we have studios shutting up shop because this is not the case. Its all common sense but sadly film journos don’t have it. Actually its degrading the stardom of these actors when there films can be made under 50 crore.
Q. Is it possible that a hit film from the eighties like Andhaa Kanoon or Mr India would have had more footfalls than a film like Dangal or Bajrangi Bhaijaan?
A. Andhaa Kanoon was much more than a Hit and Mr. India was not a hit but taking the gist of the collection its unlikely that a hit film of 30-40 years back would have footfalls matching the likes of Bajrangi Bhaijaan or Dangal. Some of the blockbusters would have more though.
though it’s pointless responding to BOI’s craziness on the last question here they might want to compare India’s population in 1982 (or whatever) with what it is today! The ‘footfalls’ (their favorite term in recent times) is something they’ve discovered all of a sudden. The Hindi box office was historically at its peak in the 70s or between the late 60s and the early 80s if one wants to take a somewhat longer arc. This is to say that the maximum percentage of the potential movie-going audience was part of the deal in this era. After the early 80s things started declining and it’s been never the same since. The revival of the 90s and beyond was about a boutique cinema driven my major metros and/or multiplexes and hence the percentages couldn’t be similar except on the rare day (say RH grossing as much or more than KKHH, BOI should talk about these footfalls!). With ticket rates what they’ve been for years in the multiplexes, with the subject matter also catering to the same audiences, the percentage was at more or less its lowest ever. Things have of course changed for a number of years now because the resurgence of masala automatically plays to a larger audience. This is why the Johar brand of cinema can no longer be in the same zone even on its best day (YJHD). This is also why Aamir is so much ahead of everyone else on his grosses because his films touch a chord with the most important demographics but also keep a larger audience in play to one degree or another. In any case footfalls in absolute terms is meaningless. It’s like saying (yeah BOI say this too!) that the biggest hits have all come in the last 5 years or something based purely on raw numbers.
Did they mention FF during 3I when it was the film to cross 3cr FF after a long long time(since gadar).They didn’t talked FF during PK as well.They talked FF only when even their current fav sallu’s most loved film since HAHK,BB couldn’t cross PK’s colln.they somehow thought let’s manipulate FF somehow to show BB >PK,which isn’t the case.Actually they were calling PK biggest of the decade not long ago,but since dangal hurricane has hit them,they r saying dangal beat BB and not PK.Dangal has crossed 700cr WW from just hindi version,but few weeks ago they said Dangal wld fall short of 700cr and that there r 2 600cr WW movies,ie dangal and BB to somehow club them together to show they r equal hits WW.Also they r not updating IndGross,overseas and WW gross so that they can somehow manipulate dangal to be below 700cr WW.they were even hell bent to say BB is in real terms biggest overseas film ever as it outgrossed all films overseas in 4 major markets.China which is an overseas market in real sense is not one for them,majorly because for them overseas market can only be indian diaspora,how can chinese or any other race like/love hindi movies it’s not their right.
Yakuza i don’t agree with Agneepath having 3.5cr footfalls.it is saying 7 cr nett,so total gross wld be abt 13cr.so,ATP according to this comes out to be even less than Rs.4.Agneepath came in 1990,HAHK came in 1994.I calculated ATP for HAHK and it was Rs.15.80.so,min ATP for agneepath has to be Rs.7-8 in worst case scenario.even if i consider Rs.6.5 to be ATP for Agneepath,Footfalls of 2 cr are there.so,most likely FF of agneepath comes in around 2 cr.even 7cr nett looks exaggerated.As far as i remember,DIL was biggest grosser of 1990 and was around Rs.7.5-8 cr nett.
So basically what BOI saying is that Salman is a bigger star , cause Aamir does less films and not cause Salman films are outgrossing Aamir’s , kia logic hai ? and Akshay kumar is probably a bigger star than Rajini right now .
The volume debate falls for this very reason. Logic of BOI is in terms of stardom Salman > Aamir > Akshay due to volume. But volume is Akshay > Salman > Akshay. So there default position should be Akshay is biggest star! Of course it doesn’t matter as BOI think SRK is biggest star he just isn’t getting results. IF SRK delivered ONE big grosser, watch them shuffle Salman aside in a second!
If we apply Impact Index kind of analysis to Bollywood box office, where context plays a role (in this case, the genre of movies involved) then Aamir’s record, purely as a box office star, is off-the-charts good. This includes the performance of his multiplex-centric films like Talaash, Taare Zameen Par, JTYJN, Delhi Belly, Peepli Live, Dhobi Ghaat as well. If someone questions the performance of Dhobi Ghaat, consider how much a songless, much-loved film like A Wednesday made (Ans: 10 odd crores vs Dhobi Ghaat’s 16 odd crores!). Go figure.
Aamir knows how to succeed at the Bollywood box office like no other star. He would effectively make a killing just by advising major studios in what scripts to choose and how to budget them! Take all this into account and he’s up there as possibly the best box office star ever (with AB, of course).
There is a caveat though: stardom is about two things — box office results and cultural currency. Salman has his Dabangg signature that rings true with his rabid fans. SRK had it with his Raj/Rahul persona (SRK standing with his arms wide open, waiting for the likes of Kajol, Rani, Preity to come running into them. Wish that’d knock him out, like a Rugby tackle, but I digress!). This is what sites like BOI pay more attention to, and they are frankly wrong. For all the great things that Aamir has done at the Box Office, he doesn’t have an easily recognizable star-signature. In other words, he’s not one to repeat himself. One can’t sustain a rabid fan following like that. But he still gets those awesome totals because even though he doesn’t inspire a rabid fan base, he relies on families and the public in general, to buy into his vision of cinema. And By God Ki Kasam, people tend to do it like he’s the Pied Piper of Hamelin, and they happen to be rats following his tune!
It is like parents doing their best to give their kids bright future. Their duty ends once the kids are given all the facilities. Whether the kids end up being highly successful depends on other factors as well. What Aamir is doing for films is what parents do for their kids.
My bigger problem is them ranking SRK still above Aamir since 2008,which can’t be justified by anyone in this whole world.there is no debate abt SRK and aamir since 2008 on any other site apart from blind BOI.They haven’t even acknowledged aamir for 3 back to back ATBB’s and ATHG,if the same would have happened with SRK/Sallu,all hell wbld have broken loose and they wld have called either of them greatest star ever or what not.For aamir,there is not even a mention.
#BB10: Barely a few weeks after Bigg Boss, Rohan Mehra EXPOSES the show makers!
The actor’s revelations pertaining the show, will shock you all.
It’s been more than 15 days that Bigg Boss shut shop, but the controversial reality show just refuses to leave the media. Day after day, news about what the contestants are up to after their stint in the show, has been making it to the news.
But, what we are about to tell you, is very shocking.
Barely 15 days after the show ended, Rohan Mehra, one of the Top 4 contestants of the show, who was eliminated during the last elimination had something major to reveal. The revelation was as shocking for us, as it was for Rohan himself.
Rohan posted a video on his twitter profile and captioned it – “I have nothing else to say after watching this video on the day of voting. Just want to get over BB now… peace”
In the video, we can see that when we click on Rohan’s profile to vote, a message pops up, which says ‘Cannot vote for the moment.’ Whereas, when Bani’s profile is clicked, the pop-up message says ‘Thank You for voting.’
Personally I love it when BOI comes with these commentary because it gets the members goat most of the time……it’s a bitter pill to swallow as they are the closest to any box-office authenticity and the box office madness we witness in India on all other portals and sites.
you are meant to love it.. that sort of commentary is for folks like yourself.. when one doesn’t know enough about these things and/or one is so committed to a star that one would rather believe in ghost drivers than the star’s guilt, one course likes this sort of commentary which blatantly supports certain stars. And just as BOI get the ‘real figures’ when they invite distributors for tea similarly folks like yourself ‘know’ that these are the most ‘authentic’ figures.
Ghost drivers in box-office talk, ghost drivers for conception / impregnation, ghost drivers ……anything concerning Salman’s super duper stardom that for your guidance is on the cusp of taking an International shape.
Sanjana accept the verdict and believe in law of the land. On ghost driving there is a confession in place by driver Ashok Singh. Media will only tell a story which sells. Please use your good judgment in filtering news is all i will suggest here.
Of course he could. But please explain if last 8 years he has a genuine ATBB I.e. a box office all time record??? Fact on BOI is he doesn’t. Predicting the future is tricky but the past history suggests Salman will have 3 big grossers but no Highest grosser ever.
You make lots of tall claims e.g. 1) 25 CR average for 15 days for TZH. But wait before making them.
And on Sachin the facts are clear – whether clutch, whether significance or importance or making you cry. He is the highest run scorer ever in test and ODI cricket plus centuries scored. Before you bring in opinions like he disappeared during X, Y and Z. In the context of facts it’s irrelevant.
Let’s say we’re discussing soccer. And we dream up certain stats:
1)Who are the best players in the last 15 min of a game (regulation time) when the score is tied?
2)Who are the best players when their team is down by a goal in the first 10 min of a game?
3)Who are the best when their team is playing with 10?
4)Who is the best when he gets an average of at least 4 touches on every possession?
5)Who is the best on a side when facing a 3-5-2 formation?
I could go on. I could frame pretty much an endless series of questions in this sense. These sorts of questions aren’t usually asked when it comes to soccer, at least so far, and certainly not to the obsessive degree that is the case with US sports and in sports where ‘Americanization’ has conquered things. Cricket being of course a good example.
In the US there are those who’ve complained for long that the analysis of sports has been reduced to this sort of questioning. No one has a problem with more sophisticated stats or more comprehensive numbers. Like everything else these too illuminate many things. However one soon gets to a point where stats become an industry so that all kinds of weird stats are then spun out all the time. Sometimes they are fun to read with perhaps a glimmer of truth to them but quite often they’re downright crazy. In other words you can read all sorts of stats on all kinds of players in cricket and then if you ask purists or cricket captains and so on to make lists of their ideal teams (all time or from the present) certain things become obvious. In other words with respect to the list Saket just posted (though I am not arguing against Saket here, just illustrating a larger tendency.. in any case he’s added his qualifications here) no one would ever select an all-time team to match that list! And this is true for any number of such stats. The question one must ask is: why?
Now of course a lot of the stats do try to account for differences in eras and so on but they do so very inadequately for the most part. For instance could any stat account for an age in which the very questions raised by that stat were simply not relevant? To ask how Gavaskar did in a crunch time situation or how much his team won because of him is an absurd question. Because this question was never raised when he played. People always wanted their teams to win or their important players to do well but their ‘expectations’ were framed very differently. Or they did not see the connections between being good or fine or great and also coming up with the kind of performance that in more contemporary terms we call a ‘clutch performance’ or what have you. This entire terminology has been imported from US sports and along with it the stats industry. So for instance there are many purists in the US who would say that baseball, certainly its great eras of the past cannot be adequately gauged using these sorts of tables. Because again the mindset with which the game was played and judged by others was extremely different.
Let’s get back to a cricket example. Once upon a time people loved the idea of the ‘chanceless’ inning. If you had a century without ever being really vulnerable you were truly appreciated. If you had one with dropped catches and what not people frowned on this kind of century. If you played very well on a fast track like Perth facing a remarkable fast bowler you got one kind of credit, if you did the same in Sydney that was a different deal. And pretty much anything in the Indian subcontinent didn’t count for much. You then go to older eras and lots of other factors come into play. Again an infinite number of questions could be raised along these lines.
Another example: who’s the best player when he is not as well-protected in terms of modern day padding and so on? Can one put a number on what it must have been like to face a West Indian battery in the 70s without the kind of extraordinary protection that players today have?
Over time psychological attitudes change but these are a result of many things. Yes today the Indian team has a certain aggressive attitude on display all the time? We are in a current Indian moment where this sort of thing is appreciated. It is so globally also. But this wasn’t always the case.
Again I could keep multiplying these examples. But my larger point is a simple one. Sports too are part of a world, they represent the values and prejudices of that world. You could say Messi is one of the 2-3 greatest players of football history as indeed just about anyone says or you could argue that in ‘crunch-time’ he lost (WC final, 2 Copa America finals… the Argentinians haven’t exactly forgiven him for this record!) and that maybe half a dozen other contemporary players are ‘better’ in this sense. But then ask anyone who that one player is they’d like to have on their team over all other currently playing and we know what the answer would be. 100% of the time!
And so while some of these stats might be absurd, others more reasonable, many valuable, the point is that all of this comes about in a certain world. Other eras had different yardsticks for caliber and greatness. Now of course as always the extraordinary titan, the ‘greatest’ sort of player will do well in most cases when it comes to such judgment but it’s beyond this that things get much more complicated. ‘Presentism’ is a human disease. Congenitally so. The stats reflect this much like everything else.
And this then brings me to Hindi cinema. What if we started raising similar questions about the box office?
1)Who’s the star with the highest number of 100 cr grossers? Or 200? or 300?
What’s the point of such a stat when it’s only applicable for stars over the last ten years or so? One can use it to gauge who’s on top at present but it has no historical meaning otherwise.
2)Who’s the star with the greatest number of jubilees?
No star star who has debuted after the early 80s would be able to make a top 25 (or whatever) on such a list! Again what’s the point? No matter how great a star is today that sort of jubilee is simply not possible.
3)Who’s the star who did best after crossing 50?
a response could be something like this: who did best between the ages of 30 and 40?
In other words these are all arbitrary questions. The measure of a star is not just the sum of such responses. For instance Salman is indeed unusual in having the very best phase of his career so late (nothing else is remotely comparable). On the other hand you have Rajesh Khanna who lasted just a few years at the top but then who in Bollywood history (not called Bachchan) can match what he achieved in those years at any point in their career?
4)Who’s the star who had 4-5 blockbusters every single year for a number of years?
5)Who’s the star that was the most dominant in multistarrers when the other stars also had great parts?
6)Who’s the star who did best without a super hit soundtrack?
again I could keep multiplying these questions. In each case there is some answer. But it’s not just about judging these answers based on whether they’re incomplete or not. It’s also about accounting for the values of that age. Dilip Kumar never had Bachchan-like numbers in any sense. This for a number of reasons. But he was that kind of dominant star for a couple of generations, one who was considered the ultimate reference for decades. He was so without putting up those sorts of numbers because things were judged differently then.
The problem with the stat industry is that it always caters to some ‘desire’ in the present and frames things accordingly. You can raise a whole host of questions and come up with all kinds of results without saying anything useful about the sport or the movie business or whatever. We have to account for contexts as well.
Incidentally it’s not just about these two things. the very same problem occurs in other aspects of life. From evaluating nation-states to all kinds of stuff. ‘Incomplete’ information, which isn’t just about the absence of hard numbers but equally the right lenses through which to read those numbers, is a common problem everywhere in life. So whether it’s cricket stats or whatever the irony is that behind such seemingly ‘hard evidence’ lie fairy-tales. Those stories that we want to tell ourselves about our present, about the age we occupy, about our ‘heroes’ (sports, cinema etc). We do the same elsewhere… in politics, in the things we believe in when it comes to religion or ethnicity and so on. By the way the online universe has led to an explosion in precisely this kind of ‘factoid’. People no matter what they believe in seem to have numbers of one kind or the other to back up their claims.
For me at least it is far less about the ‘answer’ and much more about the way the ‘question’ is asked.
Former fast-bowler Rodney Hogg sparked a controversial debate on SEN Tuesday afternoon, saying Bradman wouldn’t have averaged his famous 99.94 in the 21st Century.
“It’s disrespectful. I know to say that, but those stats jumped at me that it was easier to bat between 1920 and 1950, than what it is now,” Hogg said on The Run Home.
“Sir Donald Bradman was a freak, but I don’t think he would have averaged 99 now.”
Hogg used batting averages throughout different periods of history as a guide, pointing out the number of averages above 50 for batsmen playing for England in comparison to the modern era.
The difference between the next best, in that era, to Bradman is still 40 points! That is still insane. Bradman’s record is so far removed from his peers, it’s an absolute outlier. So much so that the authors of Freakonomics (blog) have termed it as the biggest statistical oddity in sport. Ever.
If Leicester City’s 5000-1 victory in the Premier League was the sporting story of the year, 30 miles away Northants have achieved something almost as remarkable. In T20 cricket, they have built a dynasty, reaching three T20 Blast finals in four years, winning the crown twice – and, even more than the Oakland As once did, mocking the notion of financial determinism in sport. Using data smartly, both to hone their T20 strategy and recruit players, Northants have become the Moneyball kings.
I’m just going to add that Big Data is real. It’s the fastest growing industry on this planet. As with good science and bad science, there’s going to be some churning involved, but this is the future. Data will be as integral to all sport as coaching is, right now. There’s no real way out of it. This will also include analysis of past and present greats in all sport. That’s inevitable.
In fact, in cricket, there’s already a video analyst in play who decodes how to attack the opposition, what are the relative strengths and weaknesses of batsmen, what are the ideal lengths to bowl on a particular track etc. Gone are the days when Gary Sobers would turn up on a cricket field and proclaim (while setting a bowling field): “Okay lads, scatter.” This is not how cricket is going to be played. Artifical Intelligence will dominate, like it will in any other field, and call the shots for a lot of managers/coaches/players!
Now one can argue that we (the sports fans) will be poorer because of this invasion of data, but that’s a separate debate…
Big data is interesting but only if the end user uses it correctly. Data science, analytics etc. is a growing industry. Banks/even industry are embracing it. But it’s very obvious in business at least this is a space for geeks who are supervised by people who ‘know’ what they want.
In elite sport, the tiniest of advantage can prove to be the difference between a win and a loss. Data analytics can provide a huge advantage, if it’s properly used. The end benefit can be accrued by an individual, a team or an entire organisation. That’s the whole point.
But I do agree with you, in the sense that we are in proper geek territory, when it comes to filtering data in a particular way. A lot of common sense is going to be needed, along with personal integrity, to really avail the benefits of this process. People shouldn’t be studying stats to confirm their biases — they should look at stats to figure out answers based on key metrics.
“In elite sport, the tiniest of advantage can prove to be the difference between a win and a loss. Data analytics can provide a huge advantage, if it’s properly used. The end benefit can be accrued by an individual, a team or an entire organisation. That’s the whole point.”
I agree with this. On the other hand if everyone does it it becomes simply the new standard.
“People shouldn’t be studying stats to confirm their biases — they should look at stats to figure out answers based on key metrics.”
this is precisely where I disagree. The metrics already index a certain bias. The numbers cannot possibly account for the values of every age. For instance you can consider the number of aces a tennis player is capable of to be one of the key factors in defining greatness (among lots of others). But then you can also look at the percentage of drop shots a player is capable of. However depending on what era one is talking about one of these factors will diminish relative to the other. Even on grass the percentage will drop greatly at much higher speeds and so on. On the other hand it’s unlikely that one wouldn’t use much more powerful rackets to one’s advantage. So there were aces in an earlier age too and there are drop shots today as well. The percentages are different though. And this is just the simplest of examples. You can have the most sophisticated data but you can’t account for everything. Or let me put it another way — consider all the sophisticated data we do have today on cricket and try to add it all up. It’s impossible. You can use certain data dependent on certain criteria together but not all of it. Because it measures different things that cannot be ‘harmonized’. In other words all the stats that are routinely produced for cricket (high impact, whatever)… if I said I want to add up all the numbers somehow and arrive at the best possible team it would be impossible. Because many of the stats would point in different directions. It would then depend on what kind of team I wanted. In different words still I don’t believe the human is simply the sum of the ways in which he or she can be measured. In any walk of life. But yes, the human can become that which is only the sum of such measurements. Stats track that ‘becoming’..
In a static state excluding historical noise, Saket is right. It is reductive to have a desired outcome and prove it with data. But you are right that comparing something today to something 50 years ago has many many disclaimers. And nothing can account for the output, as whatever you try to account and assume for is itself a gamble. It is like betting website. They can have every data point in history but they can’t legislate for Leicester City winning the league or that crazy Superbowl comeback.
I think livewire has prescribed BOI as truth as many have. Believe it or not at university I spent a lecture and class on proving 1+1=2. The simple truth is even for something so trivial there are ‘proofs’ for it. I won’t divulge further as I’m entering boredom territory, but quickly what one is assuming with box office is that the longer the wait for your film the bigger the chances of a greater box office result. It’s the most ludicrous theory I’ve heard. Filmmakers should wait ages and then they will create records!
The only key factor of box office outcome is the sheer connection that film created with its audience. If you can’t crack that forget it. SRK, HR have lost that connection in their films with their audience. Either the audience has moved on or their choices don’t work like they use to. Salman has corrected this so to Akshay. Aamir’s pretty much been doing it for 16 years and counting.
Sachin did it for 20+ years. That guy adjusted his game multiple times. His stats or averages tell a deceitful lie of a sportsman. Entering at 15 you won’t hit the ground running in sporting terms for a few years, especially playing at 5 or 6. Playing beyond 35+ is beyond peak. You study his stats of peak years it’ll be vastly different to others. Put another way stick every Indian batsman in at 15 let him play till 38 and see where he lands oh and top of that, do some bowling too! Oh on top of that add the intangible distractions of daily paparazzi following your every move. Oh add the media and critical attention on your technique/ skills. Oh add fanatical conundrum of stadium support every time you come in to bat. All these things are immeasurable. When India won in 2011, regretfully the MOM was not on the shoulder of players, it was Tendulkar. Such was the hope of all those cricketers holding him a loft, I remember Kohli’s words vividly ‘they carried him, no problem as he’d carried the burden of a nation for years’. Half that team were in their nappies when Sachin arrived.
He mastered test cricket and ODI. To Satyam’s point a ‘great’ would deliver in most eras. If he had a T20 career of any substance, his style would work. Dravid too was criminally chastised in ODI. A player of such class just needs to be given time and develop. Look at Amla.
To transition from that Gavasker/Boycott era of dot balls to the era of T20 and remain relevant is remarkable. Stats don’t do justice to this. Never will. Because how do you account for that cricketing life span versus anyone else let alone those incredible intangibles. No model, no big data can account for it.
I don’t agree. I think determining key matrices tantamounts to adopting real wisdom. Or in place of wisdom, one would have to do with results (or wins!). Everything in human knowledge is indexed and filtered through wisdom (or lack of it). This is not a philosophical argument (it might be one!), but at the end one should look at results that either follow or precede (I’d say both!) a particular analysis. And iterate. That’s how real science evolves.
You are right in the sense that when one comes to formulating a solution to these vexing questions (who is the greatest etc), one is trying to solve a highly non-linear, non-homogenous problem using certain parameters, indexes if you will, that might be completely wrong. The effort involved would be infinite if we tackle it using infinite number of datapoints. The trick is to linearize the problem — identify the most important elements that contribute to the problem and iterate based on results (the 80:20 principle). This is how science has evolved. Air Travel or Space Travel is also a non-linear problem — if we think about it, it’s a lot more complex than deciding who’s the greatest in a particular sport — but based on science, linear and non-linear control theory, generations of modeling, lots of computer simulations, today it’s as easy as flicking a switch. The problem’s been solved to the point that it’s now a natural phenomenon. Nobody asks the question anymore whether this is the most efficient way to do air travel — it works and the results speak for themselves. That’s what I call a common sense approach.
Back to sports, let’s take an example: who is the greatest bowler of all time? This question can be answered in a variety of ways — by looking at number of wickets, bowling average, strike rate, consistency, economy etc. But what is the most important metric to define greatness? The criteria can wary — my answer (this is just an example of the process involved, based on common sense) would hinge on certain factors: performance in home conditions vs overseas; consistency (as opposed to bursts of great spells interleaved with long dry spells), strike rate (# of balls bowled to take wickets), economy (which would indicate the respect a bowler commands) as well as some secondary factors such as an x-factor (the relative difference between a bowler and his peers, in similar conditions) that the bowler might possess. In stats, it’s important to note what’s been included but also what’s been excluded as well.
Now one starts to form a pattern or a filter. This filter isn’t perfect, but it covers quite a few bases. Now one looks at the results of the filter. One then also looks at the correlation between the parameters used and the results. Then we add a few more parameters, look at the results and iterate to the point that the results remain more or less consistent, that is, they don’t change, at least siginificantly. Now we’ve reached a statistical model that more or less accurately defines a solution to the problem statement. It’s not 100% accurate (nothing in the world can be!) but it gives a working solution. And a certain confidence in the process. In most cases, that’s more than enough.
Saket what about the quality of the opposition faced? As that is quite important. Also the co dependency of a bowling attack. Would Warne or McGrath been as prolific without each other? I doubt the great WI side would be as they were without hunting in packs. There is an endless list. IMO a statistic is to ask batsmen who was the greatest you faced and compare with stats. Without seeing any bowlers in 80s or before I’d pick Akram and Warne and of course the best bowlers have other facets like which team they play with, bowling combination etc.
I say this generally as I do modelling, most modellers some what have an idea of the generic result they expect. The model is purposefully their to validate that belief, done with honesty not fiddling. So generally I trust my instincts.
Best Boxer ever probably Ali though cases for Sugar Ray Leonard and Flloyd Mayweather as pound for pound.
Best Batsmen ever Bradman, 2nd Tendulkar though a batch of others can claim 2nd.
Best Bowler ever, Warne for me. But quite open.
Best Allrounder ever, I’d pick Sobers as he’d get into the side either a bowler or batter.
Best Golfer ever Nicholas, it’s the easiest sport to evaluate IMO. Woods could have, should have been.
Best Snooker player ever Hendry (7 titles), though O’Sullivan (5 titles) has every claim due to his style and fact he’s in an era where anyone can win.
Best Footballer ever probably still Pele, more so now as Barcelona have lost 4-0 last night reduces Messi’s chances unless something changes their.
Best Darts player ever, hands down Phil Taylor (18 world titles).
Best Basketball player ever, Michael Jordan despite certain stats placing his overall record below others. But 2 separate 3 titles in a row is crazy + a batch of individual awards.
Best Tennis player ever, Federer – did it all, dominated, long streaks, won a slam at 35, aesthetically I haven’t watched a better player.
Best Athletics star ever, IMO by far Usain Bolt followed by Michael Johnson.
Best Swimmer ever Michael Phelps 100%.
Saket, Jay.. interesting discussion all round. I’m going to repeat myself in the interests of being absolutely clear (!) but I am not really disagreeing on the use of stats or the science behind them. But (and Jay said) these are most useful when the variables can be controlled to a greater extent by limiting things to an era. So if you’re looking at cricket over the last 15-20 years it might be easier to do the comparison because of course similar conditions hold in this period in terms of pitches or rules or a batting-friendly game and so on. There are still other variables (quality of the team one is on, quality of the opposition etc etc) but these are easier to account for when other things are relatively stable. When you migrate across ages you’re just dealing with a much greater degree of complexity. And here of course my principal point isn’t just about complexity in terms of a greater number of variables but also the ‘values’ of any given age. So Will Chamberlain has stunning stats (including a 100 pt game! though it wasn’t much of a defensive game at the time) but these days most people would rate Jordan over him (I’m not as convinced of this myself but that’s another debate). Then Bill Russell had 11 titles from 13 seasons but no one would rate him as high as Jordan. Of course with basketball you don’t have the cricket problem. There have been rule changes over time but for many decades now the game is more or less the same and being an indoor game the variables are much more limited. So it’s easier to compare Jordan with someone playing 40 years ago than in cricket. Despite all this there is some judgment that goes into calling Jordan the greatest because on the stats some other arguments could also be made.
And so to get to the lists once again the moment they range across the ages they’re just dealing with an extraordinary number of variables and it’s just hard for a list to encapsulate all of these factors. Or even multiple lists. Again what one can say is that certain players keep showing up in most of the lists. They’re generally among the greatest but we don’t exactly need the science to tell us how great Bradman or Sobers are. We need them for the others. Now of course sometimes the science can reveal interesting or curious things even about the greatest players. Certain gaps in the record, certain weaknesses perhaps, whatever. Here too the stats can be useful. But in general I’m much more comfortable with these things when they’re limited to respective eras. The same for cinema. Amitabh Bachchan doesn’t need the science to establish his standing. But most others do. for instance SRK. Later ages might look at his numbers and find nothing remarkable in them, at least judged by historical standards or even later ones (Aamir’s success rate or Salman’s in a different sense). They would be right (I’m referring to SRK’s peak career, not the last decade or more). On the other hand it’s also the case that SRK was a hugely iconic star and specially so for New India and the diaspora audiences in ways that cannot be totally represented by the numbers. Or more precisely the overseas numbers do tell this story for many years but not the Indian ones. SRK’s cultural currency isn’t something that the stats could ever account for. The same goes for other stars or other movies from different eras.
On Saket’s point about this being a science like any other I would quarrel a bit. But leaving this aside there are lots of things that become debatable even in the physical sciences over time. It’s not an ‘endlessly perfectible’ kind of knowledge. It’s one in which the paradigm simply shifts over time. Eventually even the ‘image’ of reality changes enough depending on what the science is doing. This is a whole different discussion and I don’t want to pursue it too far here but there are all sorts of examples from the physical sciences to the social ones. And so statistical sciences in this sense are not unique. They are just like other sciences. And again I don’t quarrel with the use of stats or something like the idea of moneyball or what have you in itself.
I’m not disputing any of this. And of course I’m not saying there isn’t a science of stats. But my argument is not about good/bad science. it’s about a way of looking at things. Note for example how some of the argument is circular. The stats always measured that which is already valued by any age. So to use my example again once upon a time they might have used the same statistical sciences to calculate how many test players scored chanceless centuries. If the latter category is valued that’s what we end up measuring. Does this mean that the stat isn’t measuring anything ‘real’? of course not. But the point is that this ‘real’ would have no value in another age. In 1985 no one was whacking the ball in the first ten overs, irrespective of the quality of the bowling and the pitch and the total to be chased and so on. In fact NZ might have been the pioneers in the ’92 WC in this sense. But in any case it’s not as if they couldn’t have scored 300 then (ODI). But they were still playing one days a bit like tests (pacing themselves a certain way and so on) while today the opposite is true. If you wanted to however redesign cricket and maximize run production at every point you could of course use statistics for this or develop a model. You’d then get an outfit that would immediately start running circles around the others because they’d be the only ones playing the game that way. At some point the others would catch up. But one could examine this situation and say that the science led to this kind of ‘maximal’ output (if you can score 350 or 400 you do this as well, again taking about ODIs.. not getting into some of the rule changes at this point). And this model became the dominant one. Now I’m not arguing against this claim. My point is that in one kind of world the science of statistics is applied to the game of cricket which then refashions it completely. It does not make it ‘better’. Why? Because scoring 350 is not necessarily better than scoring 250? As long as everyone agrees on the target. In other words once 230 or whatever was ok because no one attempted 300. Today 350 is fine because everyone does. But this gap also conceals a difference in worldviews or how the game was judged. To get to 350 you need to orient the game more towards batsmen (pitches, rules etc), you need to mind dropped catches less, in general you must have more of a tolerance for sluggers, and so on. The T20 format takes this logic even further. so the science impacts the game in a certain way and then proceeds to measure the entire history of the game using these new standards.
Now one could argue that people were always playing the game this way and they just didn’t know it. This I believe is completely false and the ‘fantasy’ element in stats-dominated approaches. Yes today the game is played this. Tomorrow we might not even need humans to play it. We might just have androids on the field! In tennis the percentage of drop shots has in general declined (even at Wimbledon) because the technology of contemporary rackets privileges the power game and it’s hard to play those delicate shots at those incredible speeds (by the way the technology has evolved in terms of cricket bats as well or the rules governing what is acceptable or not). The greatest players will always be able to do all kinds of things, the others not as much. The Indian team today can handle pace attacks of all kinds very well, this has been true for a while (barring some exceptions, the obvious ones). As long as swing is not a serious factor. But then this is true for every other team as well. They just don’t see the kinds of swing conditions that were once quite common (all sorts of theories have been offered for this including incidentally global warming.. even in England the swing factor just isn’t what it once was). But this is what the Indian team faced every time it toured Eng once upon a time. ‘Attitude’ is great but you need stellar technique in that sort of situation. A century or whatever in those conditions was evaluated differently by critics than the same in Sydney (all else being equal). But again if your goal is to make 350 or something you remodel the entire game to achieve this sort of result. Soon you have a transformed audience as well that thinks the greatest player is someone who just ploughs down the bowler without really looking at these other factors.
Yes this is what things have become. I know they will move further in this direction because that’s the direction with everything else too. We rely on a logic of pure ‘calculability’ with everything. This is why for instance most movie discussions are about the box office. Now relying on the box office as one metric is certainly not illegitimate but notice how discussions of a film’s quality are entirely dominated by box office expectations. To offer a comparable example most movies these days are made only to generate initials. Aamir of course has the opposite mindset but everyone else is just trying to get the biggest initial possible and not bother about the follow-through. Now this isn’t purely coincidental. when Aamir has repeatedly shown that you get the biggest grossers by making a good enough film and not simply by maximizing initials why isn’t anyone following him? For the obvious reason that the opportunity cost of being Aamir Khan is much greater. You have to devote all that time, you need a certain kind of judgment, etc etc. Many of these things can’t be ‘learned’ anyway but beyond this it’s easy to make a ‘product’ and then sell it. You get to minimal safety with the initial, you’re not looking at much more. 99% of these films are not hits using any older industry definition (or any contemporary one from the South, let alone Hollywood) but these are routinely characterized as such. Because the entire set of expectations governing cinema has changed. But more importantly this state of affairs comes about because people also live their lives differently. They work longer hours, they have more domestic commitments, they have lots of technological distractions.. even the best film in the world couldn’t last 4 months because people’s attention spans are just too short for this. here even Aamir’s films prove the point. He does better than everyone else but even he can’t make his film last 3 months! He grosses much more than everyone else but roughly within that same time period. So a Salman film might do hugely in week 1, poorly in week 2, nothing in week 3. Aamir might do very well in all three weeks and then a bit more for another few weeks but it’s still the same model in terms of audience interest. Because his name means something he can maximize the results for good WOM but structurally it’s still the same industry. Given all of this it’s easier to just aim for the initial. Now I could go in greater detail in terms of why there aren’t more good scripts for any given subject and so on and why Aamir alone is able to manage the same with stunning consistency and I could offer sociological reasons for this as well but the point in any case remains the same. Cinema evolves for a number of reasons but then people start measuring the films of the past in the same way. And again much as in sports we use the same colonized categories.
Again all of this doesn’t mean there isn’t a science. And of course it changes everything. Once people went on horses, then they started going in cars. But in that transition an entire way of looking at the world is transformed. Are cars ‘permanent’? Probably not! Despite Moneyball there are many who argue that the game of baseball has been diluted in various ways. These aren’t just nostalgists sticking to the past. Notice by the way how in this very age obsessed with stats we also seen an explosion of performance enhancing drugs. Baseball is of course the classic example. But you could live in a world where everyone would be allowed to do it. Think about it — if Sachin took them and so did Ganguly the former would presumably still be greater! If Messi took them as did Ronaldo again the same result (not counting Portuguese fans who already think this is the case). Of course this isn’t the whole picture because body chemistry is a big factor from player to player but that’s another debate. All of this still comes about in an age that is about maximizing ‘production’ (runs, aces etc). Whether it is to the detriment of the finer aspects of the game (at least as these were traditionally defined… and of course there isn’t only one tradition) is not something anyone particularly cares about. Once Brazilian football with its mesmerizing, free-flowing attacking style was admired by everyone. Then European defensive football started dominating, not least because the South Americans increasingly started playing in Europe. Now of course there are exceptions (Barcelona being the obvious one) but by and large you don’t see that style of football anymore. Only shadows of it remain in South Africa and to some extent Africa. Because if you’re not strong enough defensively you will keep losing (the African teams mostly prove this). So the game has evolved but so have its values. Pele would assuredly not be scoring 7 goals or whatever today! At least not on a frequent basis. Nor would Bradman have his average. But the opposite is also true. Many contemporary players might not prosper in those older systems. There’s nothing odd about this. Except when it comes to judging different ages. One might prefer the cricket of the 50s or the 70s or the 90s or whatever. That’s a different sort of discussion. My question arises when it comes to evaluating the entire history. here one has to account for the ‘values’ of every age. So a high impact index might make sense for the game of the last 10-15 years or maybe a bit more but not beyond this. for most of the history of test cricket even something as basic as ‘winning’ wasn’t quite the ultimate category that it has been since or that it was in more or less every other game. All those jokes about constantly playing tests for draws. It’s not that the game has suddenly become more sophisticated and hence there are more results. It’s just that the game has evolved in certain ways in recent decades (or redesigned this way) because there isn’t much of a market for that older version of it anymore. But again as with the movies we have to try and account for the values of different ages. This doesn’t mean anything goes. There are still standards. I like 70s masala but Dus Numbri (sorry Rocky!) despite being a blockbuster wouldn’t be my standard! But I also reject completely a view that defines the best of Desai as silly or crude.
In the end, and to repeat this one last time, I don’t really have a problem with a stats-based approach, even the silly stuff is part of the deal. However problems begin when one starts thinking this is the ‘normative’ model. I’d add lastly that what’s interesting is that in the most stats-obsessed social science of all, economics, you can hardly ever get economists from one school to agree with the ‘hard data’ of economists belonging to another one. The numbers are never that obvious.
not really – Chinese actors will not do good in India – but Indians are already doing very good in China (Aamir with PK and now Disha is 943 hit with Chan! – I saw her in MSD – wow! finally we have got an actress which has much more than a DP or PC to make a true-blue superstar-actor – what a pretty actress and what lovely emotions! she nailed in the few scenes she got in MSD) – I will watch out for this girl – also saw Tiger and Jackie on KWK – Tiger is also so humble and dedicated – amazing new generation lot – so focussed and so humble – i will put my bets on Disha and if she chooses the right scripts – that woman is going to rule here for a very long time……very very long time…..
Another question that comes to mind is regarding Federer’s position in the pantheon of greats. Is he the real GOAT? In terms of longevity and in terms of Grand Slams won, he is certainly up there.
But Nadal has the best head-head record against his peers, including Federer. He also has 14 Grand Slams, the second highest in history. If we go by his head-head record and the fact that he played in the toughest era of professional tennis, he’s the GOAT.
By the same yardstick, Federer isn’t even second on the list. It would be Sampras and then, finally, Federer. If one were to involve an intangible like aesthetically pleasing tennis to the list, Federer would trump all — two times over.
Federer IMO. ONE factor is clay, another is age, Federer has always been 5 years older, another is his family life intervention came earlier, another Nadal is more likely to be a drug cheat, another people like a game to be played a certain way so when you marry stats with sentiments Federer will win any vote. Also mentally Federer might not be best but as tennis player and honours it’s hard to stick anyone before him. The question I would ask is if Nadal did not exist Federer would have won all those French opens, he lost 4 finals to him. If Federer wasn’t around has Nadal shown enough in the other courts to suggest he’d had gobbled those slams up?
Federer head to head with Novak is negative too. But that doesn’t place Novak above him?
Also pure stats can be really defy perception. Your cricket model might produce Akhtar as greatest! You don’t know.
I think they won’t last till then. Federer had power, but his movement was incredibly underrated. His serve is great now. Nadal I give him 1-2years now. Novak will surely comeback. Murray I expect to emerge and stay #1 this year. Federer should retire IMO. Play Wimbledon only and retire. Nadal won’t win 4 more, Novak could win 6 but he might be in Federer phase where he’s not invincible anymore, that aura maybe gone. Murray should win a few more.
Those 3 are heavy hard hitters so very tough to play mid 30 s. But tennis has evolved with how Federer has lasted so you never know.
Don’t think any of them will survive, to be honest. Their days seem to be numbered. Djokovic looks like a spent force; Murray has realized his dream of becoming #1 and that just might be the end of his ambition. Nadal’s going to struggle too. Just a hunch. Federer might still continue for one more year, at least.
The remarkable part about Federer’s game is that he optimizes his movement — doesn’t really run himself dry like Nadal. That’s why he’s been playing for so long. The others don’t have this luxury and with age catching up, those five setters will start becoming more and more difficult.
Yes it’s the minimal economy of his work and movement. The other 3 minus Novak you feel like they are tired and running a lot. That is ultimately what allowed him to win Australian Open. A younger Nadal wins that match 9 out 10 times.
It was Holiday which had brought Akshay Kumar in the league of actors who were bringing to fore serious cinema with entertaining narrative and a message to add as well. That was followed by Baby which made audiences look at the superstar in a different light altogether. Now Jolly LLB 2 has gone past the entire first week collections of these superb films in 6 days flat, with Rs. 5.85 crore* coming in on Wednesday. The film now stands at Rs. 72.64 crore* and with this, Week One of Holiday [Rs. 67.46 crore] and Baby [Rs. 63.82 crore] have been surpassed. As a matter of fact, there is also a close brush with Brothers [Rs. 72.60 crore].
Next target for the film is Singh Is Bliing, which was a holiday release, and had brought in Rs. 77.6 crore during its first week. The manner in which the Akshay Kumar film is currently trending, it should happen eventually and that would bring Jolly LLB 2 amongst the Top-5 Week One grossers of Akshay Kumar Week (after Rustom – Rs. 90.9 crore, Airlift – Rs. 83.5 crore, Housefull 3 – Rs. 80.1 crore and Rowdy Rathore – Rs. 79 crore).
Meanwhile, Jolly LLB 2 has already gone past first week collections of Gabbar Is Back [Rs. 60 crore] and Housefull 2 [Rs. 64.2 crore].
The Shah Rukh Khan film Raees that features the actor playing a grey shaded character, released on January 25. The Rahul Dholakia directed film which has been making waves since its announcement has had a pretty decent run at the box office. In fact the film managed to enter the much coveted Rs. 100 crore club within three days of its release, similarly in the overseas markets as well Raees has been doing brisk business raking in the moolah.
Anil Thadani (A A Films) who had acquired the all India distribution rights for Raees is yet to recover his investment in the film despite Raees becoming a box office success. Apparently, Thadani had shelled out a whopping Rs. 70 crores to acquire the distribution rights of Raees, however looking at the box office performance of the film; he stands to recover approximately Rs. 60-65 crores.
Evident from this is the plain fact that despite its massive box office collections, Thadani is yet to recover Rs. 5-10 crore from his initial investment before he makes a profit. On the other hand though, the makers of the film Excel Entertainment and Red Chillies seem to be having a blast, especially given the fact that Raees was made on a budget of Rs. 87 crores (Cost of production – 70 crores. Print and publicity – 17 crores) and has delivered a huge profit for them.
But, since Raees still continues to run in theatres, albeit at a diminished rate, there are hopes for Thadani to lower his losses. However, the matter of him making a profit is one question that only time will answer.
The loss for the distributor is obvious. This information has appeared in many other places too. By this standard, film is a flop. But people who follow BOI will call it a hit of some kind. You know a quad-hit or a semi-hit or a tri-hit or whatever as long as hit is in it.
I’m presuming this Anil dude was the main distributor so he may have sold it on to sub distributors for higher prices. I don’t know, like no one knows. Only BOI this mythological site knows and the army that follows them.
Whenever I hear Raveena Tandon’s name I get those flashing images of Tippa tippa barsa pani and Tu cheez badi hai mast mast. Plus those songs with Govinda Ankhiyon se goli mare and kisi disco mai jaye. Ravishing stuff from the 90’s!
Watched Ezra(Malayalam,horror). It is an okay movie. If you have watched movies like The Exorcist before there is nothing much to be excited about. It follows same pattern of horror movies..couple moving to new place, unnecessary opening of antique stuff followed by evil sightings and all. There was one good sequence of the girl walking around with a dripping bag in hand and the scene of her jumping off a high wall will make you gasp. And a twist at end though not what we haven’t seen before. Overall the movie wasn’t scary enough to make an impact. If they set out to make a horror movie they should have ensured that at least..though I am thankful that there was no green stuff being spit out..
Agree, this could be a smart choice and very unique. 3D being an option. It depends on how much investment is put into the film and how classy the visuals look. It’s too early to call this dull or uninteresting, given the choices made before. This is completely an out of the box film choice and fits in with a star who wants no image.
Going by reports it’s been in the offing for 8 years. LOL. Aamir is one crazy person.
So based on that I’ll take this option as quite serious, not something that might be a waste of time. If scheduled release of TOH is Diwali 2018 and this arrives on schedule for Jan 2019 I suspect the theory that Diwali is not a great release slot and Aamir can’t do movies so close together and not get results theories put to the test.
Dont think Aamir was involved for 8 years with this. But yes, his name has been attached with this biopic for a while now. This is supposedly a high budget film co-produced by Aamir himself. That gives some confidence that they will get the visuals/vfx right (hollywood is not the competition here). A space travel will need sufficient vfx and classy visuals nonetheless.
TOH and Salute releasing back to back will be great. Its not that he hasnt done this before. RDB and Fanaa were back to back superhits in the first half of 2006.
You guys are looking at it the wrong way. Aamir wouldn’t worry (or spend too much) about VFX. Every movie he does relies heavily on Emotions. The movie will be about this guy’s journey and the obstacles he may have faced. Also, this is not a Gravity type of movie where FX played a major role. Also, there is no way Aamir will release this movie 3 months after TOH. If this is being made, it’s coming Christmas 2019.
If it is journey, it wont be special. Who cares about a journey unless it culminates into something spectacular? People will go for experiencing that thrill by a first time Indian in space. Hope there are no songs.
actually think the film is right up Aamir’s alley. First off it’s the right moment for it. India has been in the news on this front more than one in recent years. Of course this becomes India’s first space film and this Hollywood moment will work well in the multiplexes. Aamir will come up with a script which will be absorbing to say the very least. The only trick here is getting the visuals right from the SFX to the authenticity factor (the space station, the interiors of the spacecraft and so on). It will be important to ensure this given everything that same audience has seen in this context. But again Aamir is unlikely not to have considered this. This is one of the reasons why he lives even with scripts that he likes for so long. He probably runs them over again and again in his mind. Now I must admit this is not necessarily my kind of subject but I do expect an engaging film and again it’s the perfect one for Aamir. It gives him something new, something the audience hasn’t seen before, it plays to that nationalist moment of pride in this matter, it’s really an obvious choice in some ways. Don’t think it will be hard for Aamir to get the script right, the only challenge will be with the visuals.
According to wiki, Rakesh Sharma had a flawless career throughout. The somewhat interesting part will be the husband and wife’s stay in Russia trying to learn the language. They may have to rope in russians and a stint in Moscow. This reminds me of Mera Naam Joker where RK gave a major role to a Russian circus artist and she teaching russian language to him. I think Salman also will be getting chinese language lessons from Zhu Zhu. And the recent release Ghazi attack is also getting lots of attention due to its historical significance. And there is Rangoon waiting.
One on a kushti template, one on a speaceship and one in a kitchen..if he goes ahead with the Sanjeev kapoor rumour. Now Aamir doing all these biopics is right in the Madhur Bhandarkar’s alley. while the director brought out different social spheres in each movie, Aamir is doing story of real triumphs in different spheres with some additional fiction thrown in for cinemaic thrills.
Still hope Aamir doesn’t do this , Mahveer Phogat story was emotional and inspiring , not sure about this one . Aamir strength lies in story telling and the emotional connect and this sounds like it will be heavy on VFX , also you need a credible director for this kind of film , don’t know who is the director here . On paper this just doesn’t sound too exciting .. hope i am wrong .
Mansoor Khan, Indra Kumar, Dharmesh Dharshan, Vikram Bhatt, John Matthew Matthan, Gowariker, Farhan Ahktar, Rakesh Mehra, himself, Abbas Tyrewala, Anusha Rizvi, Abhinay Deo, Vijay Krishna Acharya, Reema Kagti and Nitesh Tiwari hardly came with ringing endorsements or pedigree or strong successes. Many would argue their best films are with Aamir. All did fine.
He’s repeated some but of major director’s he only worked with Yash Chopra (flop), Kunal Kohli (hit), RGV (hit), Mahesh Bhatt (2 successes), Santoshi (flop but cult film now) and Hirani (no brainier). History suggests at least for Aamir unless it’s Hirani (nothing to think about) his judgement is sound on director’s and whether it’s first time or 2nd film the script has generally worked. And aside from Hirani it doesn’t always work.
It’s going to be crowded at the Indian box office again coming Friday, what with two Hindi releases, both featuring Tapsee Pannu competing with a slew of Oscar-nominated Hollywood films and two new Hollywood franchise films at the box office.
The Hindi films on release are both by debutant directors. Amit Roy’s Running Shaadi is a comedy featuring Tapsee Pannu and Amit Sadh on the lines of Band Baaja Baaraat, while new director Sankalp Reddy helms the historical war adventure The Ghazi Attack in Hindi and Telugu. The film featuring Tapsee, Rana Daggubatti and K K Menon is produced by Karan Johar and will therefore corner a sizable number of screens and theatres. This leaves the week’s third Hindi film Iraada bringing together the Ishqiya pair of Naseeruddin Shah and Arshad Warsi with little room to make its presence felt.
Clearly the centres of attraction this week are the Oscar-nominated films Moonlight, Silence and Hidden Figures, and also the new editions of John Wick Chapter 2, the follow-up film to the highly successful 2014 actioner featuring Keanu Reeves and the animation super-hero film The Lego Batman Movie which is expected to be a major global earner.
Kaabil And Raees Third Week Business
Friday 17 February 2017 11.30 IST
Box Office India Trade Network
Raees has almost come to end of its run and has grossed 128.50 crore nett in three weeks. The lifetime business of the film will be 129 crore nett and the distributor share will be around 66 crore. The film has under performed but is the biggest grosser of the year and will probably remain so for some time yet. The business of Raees till date is as follows.
First Week – 1,10,05,00,000
Second Week – 15,90,00,000
Third Week – 2,60,00,000 apprx
TOTAL – 1,28,55,00,000 appx
Kaabil has remained below the mark from day one though did comfortably beat the numbers of Raees i the third week. the film stands at 86.50 crore nett after three weeks and will probably finish at 87.50 crore nett. the distributor share of the film will finish at around 42 crore. Krrish way back in 2006 had managed a share of 40 crore and more than ten years later Kabil is hardly better.. Below is the business of Kaabil till date
First Look OF ‘Sasikala’ Biopic Is Here: Ram Gopal Varma Announces His Next
Koimoi.com Team –
February 17, 2017
Ram Gopal Varma said his upcoming multilingual biopic on late Tamil Nadu Chief Minister J. Jayalalithaa’s close aide V.K Sasikala will be unimaginably shocking.
Sasikala is currently serving a four-year jail term after being found guilty in disproportionate assets case.
Talking about the project which has been titled Sasikala, Varma tweeted, “Sasikala is going to be the story of what happened behind and in front of Sasikala and only Manargudi mafia members will understand this.”
He went on to add that Sasikala is, “Don Vito Corleone of the Manargudi mafia family. She doesn’t even offer for you to refuse.”
‘Sasikala’ biopic will be unimaginably shocking: Ram Gopal Varma
‘Sasikala’ biopic will be unimaginably shocking: Ram Gopal Varma
Varma said he will show the true relationship between Jayalalithaa and Sasikala in his film.
“Truth behind Jayalalithaa and Sasikala relationship, from what Poes Garden servants told me, is unimaginably shocking and I will show it in my film,” he wrote.
Known for helming movies on real life incidents, Varma had previously said that aSasikala’ is going to be a very, very sincere from the heart Tamilian love story and absolutely nothing to with fictional non-politics.
Varma is currently busy filming the third installment of the popular crime thriller franchise “Sarkar” and it features megastar Amitabh Bachchan, Yami Gautam and Manoj Bajpayee in pivotal roles.