#2 World Cup – Aamir Khan (Lagaan defeats Rang De Basanti), part 2…
8 GROUPS OF RANDOMLY CHOSEN FILMS THAT STAR AAMIR KHAN – 4 FILMS IN EACH GROUP
2 MATCHES EVERY OTHER DAY FROM EACH GROUP – votes equal points
BLOGGERS TO VOTE ON WHICH FILM WINS – only need the winning film and if you like a reason for victory. No essays! In The event of a tie score at the end of group stages – the head to head match will determine the victor. In the event of a tie head to head my vote will determine the victor.
TOP 2 FROM EACH GROUP TO GO THROUGH TO FINAL 16 – matches there on are randomly picked by me.
Final 16 and knockouts – in the event of a tie score the highest voted film overall will go through.
Honourable mentions to nothing really.
Here are the final group standings from this thread here
| Group 1 | |
| Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak | 68 |
| Ghajini | 55 |
| Mann | 20 |
| Baazi | 4 |
| Group 2 | |
| 3 Idiots | 59 |
| Rangeela | 56 |
| Raakh | 26 |
| Holi | 5 |
| Group 3 | |
| Lagaan | 68 |
| Akele Hum Akele Tum | 32 |
| Dhobi Ghat | 31 |
| Dil | 15 |
| Group 4 | |
| Dil Chahta Hai | 64 |
| Talaash | 53 |
| Raja Hindustani | 22 |
| Afsana Pyar Ka | 7 |
| Group 5 | |
| Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin | 62 |
| Mangal Pandey | 45 |
| Dhoom 3 | 21 |
| Ishq | 18 |
| Group 6 | |
| Rang De Basanti | 56 |
| Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander | 53 |
| PK | 26 |
| Ghulam | 11 |
| Group 7 | |
| Dangal | 66 |
| Earth | 33 |
| Hum Hain Rahi Pyar Ke | 32 |
| Fanaa | 21 |
| Group 8 | |
| Taare Zameen Par | 48 |
| Sarfarosh | 46 |
| Andaz Apna Apna | 42 |
| Secret Superstar | 16 |
Round of 16 results
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander 19 Vs Talaash 8
Ghajini 8 Vs Sarfarosh 19
Earth 17 Vs Mangal Pandey 10
QayamatSe Qayamat Tak 25 Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum 2
Dangal 13 Vs 3 Idiots 14
Dil Chahta Hai 12 Vs Rang De Basanti 15
Lagaan 25 Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin 2
Rangeela 9 Vs Taare Zameen Par 18
Quarter Finals results
Rang De Basanti 15 Vs Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 11
Lagaan 25 Vs Earth 1
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar 17 Vs Taare Zameen Par 9
Sarfarosh 10 Vs 3 Idiots 16
Semi Final results
Rang De Basanti 17 Vs 3 Idiots 9
Lagaan 22 Vs Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar 4
Final result
Lagaan 20 Vs Rang De Basanti 6
SATYAMSHOT 
October 11, 2018 at 4:01 PM
Round of 16 match ups…
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander Vs Talaash
Ghajini Vs Sarfarosh
Earth Vs Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum
Dangal Vs 3 Idiots
Dil Chahta Hai Vs Rang De Basanti
Lagaan Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin
Rangeela Vs Taare Zameen Par
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October 11, 2018 at 4:02 PM
My choices
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
3 Idiots
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 11, 2018 at 4:11 PM
I had to change my choices…had a think and JJWS is in, Talaash out. DCH in and RDB out.
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October 11, 2018 at 4:05 PM
Round of 16 :
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal
Rang De Basanti
Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin
Taare Zameen Par
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October 11, 2018 at 4:05 PM
Talaash
Ghajini (this gave me some trouble!)
MP
QSQT
Dangal
DCH
Lagaan
TZP
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October 11, 2018 at 4:23 PM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Ghajini
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Rangeela
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October 11, 2018 at 4:37 PM
Talaash
Sarfarosh
Earth
AHAT
Dangal
RDB
DHKMN
TZP
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October 11, 2018 at 4:38 PM
Lagaan & QSQT got favourable draws…. everything else might need some head scratching though I can see some troubles for JJWS with some guaranteed votes for Talaash via aamirsaurabh/Qalander/Saket.
For them I share this song…
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October 11, 2018 at 4:59 PM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Rangeela
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October 11, 2018 at 5:29 PM
Round of 16:
Talaash
Sarfarosh
Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat
Dangal
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Rangeela
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October 11, 2018 at 5:32 PM
JJWS
Sarfarosh
Earth
QSQT
Dangal
RDB
Lagaan
TZP
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October 11, 2018 at 6:25 PM
Knockout stage voting:
Talaash
Ghajini
MP
QSQT
3 Idiots
RDB
Lagaan
Rangeela
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October 11, 2018 at 5:36 PM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
3 Idiots
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Rangeela
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October 11, 2018 at 5:38 PM
The early vote suggests Talaash is in trouble. I wouldn’t want to see it eliminated this early (if it has to be) but looks like this is where things are heading.
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October 11, 2018 at 7:14 PM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal (2-2 at the end of regulation, 3-3 at the end of extra time, each 4 out of 5 in penalty kicks. Dangal beats 3I in sudden death. What a match;) )
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 11, 2018 at 8:53 PM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 11, 2018 at 10:14 PM
Commentary from the wise guys?
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October 11, 2018 at 11:05 PM
Talaash
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 11, 2018 at 11:10 PM
Talaash noir element
Sarfarosh style
Earth negative role done well
QSQT romance
Dangal biopic well done
DCH European and buddy film starting a trend and irritating boi.
Lagaan Bhuvan’s spirit
TZP Teacher student story enhanced by Darsheel’s acting.
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October 11, 2018 at 11:39 PM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
3 Idiots
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 12, 2018 at 12:07 AM
3 Idiots fans have vanished! The Hirani-Aamir combo has really struggled in this tournament.
SP that penalty kick for Dangal #5, the referee has adjudged the player made a double motion and duped the goalkeeper into false motion hence must be retaken!
Sanjana you can still change, such a travesty this match up!
Induction motor scene
Chaturs speech
What is a machine?
Watch scene
The black and white roti scene
Dhokra, gujju scene
Countless others… the comedy constructed in this film was a rage when I watched it…
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October 12, 2018 at 12:14 AM
But it is pitted against the heavy weight Dangal!
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October 12, 2018 at 12:22 AM
I think Dangal is being overrated here. It’s a good movie for sure but 3 Idiots is just full of great writing throughout. It’s tone is consistent throughout, even dramatic or emotional scenes are done well. And besides AAA has gone already, the semi finals might be a social education at this rate… Dangal’s a biopic, material already there. 3 Idiots (unless Saket says it’s lifted from some movie in Guatemala) is pretty original stuff.
I’m not liking this match up. Dangal is doing a sleeper hold on 3 Idiots and putting it to sleep and beating the crap out of it. Plus Sanjana, Dangal has a lot of violence, in public too…😀
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October 12, 2018 at 12:25 AM
It is about aamir’s acting as the father captivated me. For me it is about his acting in Dangal than anything else.
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October 12, 2018 at 12:28 AM
Ok – I don’t think you’ll change your mind here! Worth a shot!
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October 12, 2018 at 12:29 AM
aamir’s acting that captivated me.
And the strategically placed songs.
His bout with his daughter.
Overall tone of the film.
And its China success also played some part.
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October 12, 2018 at 12:32 AM
You tried to tempt me with six scenes! Against Dangal it could not work!
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October 12, 2018 at 12:40 AM
I’ll pick on someone else.
Satyam – you once said 3 Idiots to be the most entertaining movie of the previous decade. What’s changed? Dangal? And distinctly remember your Dangal review to say it’s being overrated to some extent!
I need GF. I remember his review of 3 Idiots well – ‘and here is the movie of the year’… something like that.
Sandhya might vote, but she might go Dangal…Master gave a negative review of Dangal as everyone was giving positive ones maybe he’ll vote 3 Idiots…
I’ll scratch Abzee, he didn’t like it…
I should get BOI to vote, they hailled it as an all-time blockbuster on Day 4 alone! This is one of the only times ever they rejoiced Aamir otherwise they don’t care LOL.
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October 12, 2018 at 12:46 AM
BOI’s one vote for 3 Idiots in ‘real value’ is worth a 1,000 😀
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October 12, 2018 at 6:19 AM
On Dangal here’s my original post. It is true that my 3I piece was a lot more complimentary but I somehow haven’t been very drawn to the film over time. It’s the sort of film one would enjoy any time one saw it. But I think I’m more likely to revisit Dangal. In any case skimming through both pieces just now I realize I should have given 3I more thought for this vote. I’m even a bit tempted to alter my vote. But it’s a tough call.
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October 12, 2018 at 6:31 AM
Point 5) in your Dangal review sticks in my memory. And your last sentence in 3 Idiots review is something I remember. I too was not sure how 3 Idiots would age. On TV it doesn’t look as great as before. The YouTube clips sealed it for me. It’s a laugh riot throughout.
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October 12, 2018 at 6:42 AM
Agree with both those points still. 3I is definitely a classic. I just don’t revisit it as a matter of personal taste. Having said that I don’t do this with Hirani in general for some odd reason. The first Munnabhai is still I think his best film. But as fluid narratives LRM and 3I are possibly even better. PK is definitely lesser in this regard, specially the second half (though the first one is probably his most interesting one since his first film).
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October 12, 2018 at 6:50 AM
I haven’t revisit it either nor Dangal. Dangal’s a good sports movie but 3 Idiots is 3 Idiots (at this stage) – if it gets further which I doubt it will be little tougher for me against other films. This choice I found tough but overall a bit of a no brainer after some quick thoughts. DCH RDB that’s a tough one! That was one painful choice.
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October 12, 2018 at 7:00 AM
I’d easily vote for Talaash over every other Aamir film. Until of course it got to Lagaan. this would be a tough one. My mind would be on the side of Lagaan and my heart with Talaash!
Leaving this aside I should also say that I rarely revisit contemporary Hindi films.
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October 12, 2018 at 12:45 AM
An Jo liked Dangal. Go through his review.
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October 12, 2018 at 12:46 AM
I think LS too likes Dangal more!
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October 12, 2018 at 6:24 AM
I have some problem with 3 Idiots due to that Balatkari scene. Though I laughed I felt squeamish about it.
Even Dil had one such scene where aamir decides to teach a lesson to madhuri.
Dangal’s patriarchy was acceptable as a biopic.
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October 12, 2018 at 6:28 AM
You’re going to make me feel guilty about changing my vote for 3I! But your point is a very fair one. It’s a hilarious scene but it’s impossible to imagine that a similar scene could be written today in Hollywood. On Dil though that was par for the course for Indian cinema for the longest time. Lots of films had such moments. I still concede your point of course.
On the patriarchy point though I’d just say that these things aren’t harmless. In other words if you have a patriarchal system in place certain things are more likely to follow. Dangal doesn’t have to deal with this issue but what would Aamir’s character have thought for example of his daughter’s potential love interests? In precisely that sort of setting a lot of horrific shame and honor episodes unfold all the time in India. Leaving this aside it is in some ways the story of the patriarch. He decides his daughter need to have this life, he’s proven right eventually when his daughter decides she needs to follow more ‘modern’ techniques, the daughter is constantly looking out for him (and his approval/help) even at the most crucial moment of her career. Now at a human level all this is perfectly reasonable and understandable. But a film always reveals its ideology through a story. The latter might be better or worse but it is never the only possible one relative to a subject.
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October 12, 2018 at 12:23 PM
Glad you raised this sanjana — Dil’s scene is atrocious (I felt bad about it even as 12 year-old in the cinema); with 3I I laughed but intellectually that is hard to defend…
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October 12, 2018 at 6:28 AM
And now with MeeToo in full force, I feel more vindicated. The other films may have misogynistic scenes but not to this extent as far as I know. The lesser evil is preferable.
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October 12, 2018 at 6:39 AM
Would you have voted 3 Idiots before metoo?
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October 12, 2018 at 6:44 AM
It depends on which film it is pitted against. Not on MeeToo only.
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October 12, 2018 at 6:52 AM
There is good patriarchy where a father or brother are liberal enough to take care of their daughters by accepting their choices and at the same time protecting them. Patriarchy is not about honour killing only. I have seen mothers and mothers in law much more harsh and unforgiving. Even in a patriarchy they are able to pull strings.
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October 12, 2018 at 6:59 AM
yes but when mothers are harsh it’s because they are really upholding the same patriarchal laws. Also the notion of a good or benevolent patriarchy is problematic in itself.
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October 12, 2018 at 12:50 AM
Internet users across the globe may experience widespread network failures as the key domain servers are slated to undergo routine maintenance over the next 48 hours.
Russia Today reported that global internet users might experience network connection failures as the main domain servers and its related network infrastructure will be down for some time.
The Internet Corporation of Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) will carry out maintenance work during this time period by changing the cryptographic key that helps protect the internet’s address book or the Domain Name System (DNS). This has been necessitated to counter the rising incidents of cyber attacks, the ICANN said.
In a statement, the Communications Regulatory Authority (CRA) said the global internet shutdown is necessary for ensuring a secure, stable and resilient DNS. “To further clarify, some internet users might be affected if their network operators or Internet Service Providers (ISPs) have not prepared for this change. However, this impact can be avoided by enabling the appropriate system security extensions,” it added.
Internet users could face difficulties in accessing web pages or making any transactions in the next 48 hours. Also, users could face inconvenience accessing the global network if they use an outdated ISP.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/tech/global-internet-shutdown-likely-over-next-48-hours/story-mKSZ0e07xjbcaXAyMijQNJ.html
So Hurry Up!
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October 12, 2018 at 12:51 AM
This is in the wrong thread unless it’s a vote for 3 Idiots?
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October 12, 2018 at 12:53 AM
I chose this thread so that the hamlets can come to a decision in time!
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October 12, 2018 at 12:55 AM
A network failure would make this vote null, this draw void…hmmmm…
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October 12, 2018 at 12:59 AM
You are trying too hard!
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October 12, 2018 at 1:24 AM
Round of 16 votes
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
3 Idiots
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 12, 2018 at 1:24 AM
Rahul your vote on Dangal Vs 3 Idiots?
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October 12, 2018 at 1:25 AM
Edit: Dangal v 3 Idiots: 3 Idiots
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October 12, 2018 at 1:26 AM
Done thanks
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October 12, 2018 at 1:46 AM
Talaash
Ghajini
Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 12, 2018 at 1:50 AM
As cinematic spectacles, Talaash & Rang De Basanti are light-years ahead of Aamir’s other films.
That’s not to suggest that some of his other films are not more important than the above two or even more entertaining…they just don’t come close in terms of story-telling. And one can take my word for it, 50 years down the line, both these films will far outweigh the others in terms of lasting impact.
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October 12, 2018 at 2:48 AM
honestly Earth is – for me – even better than Talaash and RDB – but what an underrated film! i wish it was made in today’s times…..mktg genius aamir wud have taken care of actor aamir at BO
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October 12, 2018 at 3:22 AM
There are better films than these two, story-wise, I don’t disagree. Some of his films deliver important messages as well (Secret Superstar, TZP, PK). But the real magic is in the story-telling — the use of cinematography, the editing, the choice of colors, the careful use of close-ups and other directorial flourishes that leave a longer lasting impact.
There is a reason why cinema is called a visual medium. It’s not just about the story — it’s how you tell that story that’s more important.
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October 12, 2018 at 3:09 AM
Talaash
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Rangeela
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October 12, 2018 at 3:28 AM
KNOCK OUTS
Talaash
Ghajini
Earth
Akele Hum Akele Tum
Dangal Vs 3 Idiots-I need some time for this.I can’t decide right now.Too tough.It’s unfair to pit them at such an early stage.Wld give my vote around the end.
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 12, 2018 at 5:48 AM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander Vs Talaash
JJWS
Ghajini Vs Sarfarosh
Sarfarosh
Earth Vs Mangal Pandey
Earth
Had to choose the trauma of 1947’s independence over the first cry of independence in 1857.
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum
QSQT
Dangal Vs 3 Idiots
Dangal
Toughest matchup of the tournament so far. But will go with the earthiness of Dangal over the saccharine sweetness of Hirani’s message.
Dil Chahta Hai Vs Rang De Basanti
Another tough one. No doubt RDB is visually significant, but the first movie to depict friendship/love in a setting familiar to millions of urbanites wins it.
DCH
Lagaan Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin
Lagaan
Rangeela Vs Taare Zameen Par
TZP
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October 12, 2018 at 6:19 AM
If we give credits to the directors also.
JJWS Mansoor Khan
Talaash Reema Kagti
Ghajini Murugadoss
Sarfarosh John Mathew Mathan
Earth1947 Deepa Mehta
QSQT Mansoor Khan
AHAT Mansoor Khan
Mangal Paney Ketan Mehta
Dangal Nitesh Tewari
3 Idiots Hirani
DCH Farhan Akhtar
RDB Rakeysh Omprakash Mehta
Lagaan Ashutosh Gowariker
DHKMN Mahesh Bhatt
Rangeela RGV
TZP Amole Gupte as creative director and Aamir Khan is the director
Any mistakes?
3 are by Mansoor Khan.
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October 12, 2018 at 6:24 AM
Ok Jay, my updated vote for the knockout stage (even if this will suggest another conspiracy!):
Talaash
Ghajini (this gave me some trouble!)
MP
QSQT
3I
RDB
Lagaan
TZP
also changed my DCH vote. Gave it some thought earlier too but went with DCH. I have problems with RDB but perhaps still like it more at a personal level.
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October 12, 2018 at 6:35 AM
Good to see you changing the films. I think I overdid it.
I have decided to stick to first choices. No more wavering.
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October 12, 2018 at 9:24 AM
What? Jay convinced you for match fixing 3I? Haha.
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October 12, 2018 at 9:37 AM
No match fixing. It was open as daylight. In fact I tried to change Sanjana’s mind first and yours. It was fairly done & if Satyam picks Dangal again, no issues.
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October 12, 2018 at 10:22 AM
I’m going to stick with 3I. But yeah I wasn’t completely certain about DCH initially, when I changed my vote on one I changed it on the other as well!
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October 12, 2018 at 11:31 AM
There is politics in this harmless polling/worldcup comepetition 🙂
I gave “my” opinion between two movies..now if my opinion liked by other people..I am not interested.
BTW there should be winner..who gave maximum “right” choices..This will difficult to tabulate. Aamir pool will be poisoned but SRK is done and dusted.
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October 12, 2018 at 11:37 AM
No politics, just lobbying and I’m guilty of it but I am not that precious about it. I’m accepting 3 Idiots is heading out. If I wanted to I could give easy routes to my favourite film but whatever happens will happen.
Could you explain your second paragraph?
3rd paragraph I was following this in SRK one but it’s pretty difficult. Bliss was pretty good until the final!
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October 12, 2018 at 12:00 PM
Jay
Dangal vs 3I is an unfortunate matchup, especially this early. My top 4 will be Lagaan, 3I, Dangal and QSQT.
Could you care to explain how two Group leaders met in R16? Is it not 1 vs 2 matchups in this round? Error?
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October 12, 2018 at 12:13 PM
Random, completely random (and my wife not me).
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October 12, 2018 at 12:48 PM
Jeez nice way to inject wife into this. Does she know, you threw her under the bus?
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October 12, 2018 at 1:19 PM
LOL I told her straight away I will be lynched with this draw! The SRK draw was funny. I said pick a number between 1-4. She stuck the middle finger up at me. Then the index finger. That’s how things roll in the Shah household 😀
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October 12, 2018 at 10:33 PM
Do you follow the same procedure when you invest in stocks and shares?
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October 12, 2018 at 10:54 PM
Jay
Thing to consider. For quarter use 1-8, 2-7, 3-6, 4-5 match ups.
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October 12, 2018 at 11:41 PM
Agreed. And rank 1-8 based on number of votes (total).
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October 13, 2018 at 1:36 AM
You guys are manufacturing to get the ultimate final! Anyway any match up from QF onwards is worthwhile.
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October 13, 2018 at 1:25 AM
BUT your round robin groups were not seeded. Thus its better to consider votes only from this round to rank your top 8.
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October 14, 2018 at 10:45 PM
maybe it’s time to ask your kid, jayshah
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October 12, 2018 at 7:05 AM
Round of 16 match ups…
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Ghajini
Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
3 Idiots
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 12, 2018 at 8:17 AM
Around 20 or so votes in, so whats the tally at present?
Lets hope the dumb films like 3i and dch gets dumped in this round.
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October 12, 2018 at 8:42 AM
Update
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander 12 Vs Talaash 8
Ghajini 6 Vs Sarfarosh 14
Earth 12 Vs Mangal Pandey 8
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 18 Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum 2
Dangal 12 Vs 3 Idiots 7 (one vote to come from aamirsaurabh)
Dil Chahta Hai 9 Vs Rang De Basanti 11
Lagaan 18 Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin 2
Rangeela 6 Vs Taare Zameen Par 14
2 days of voting left… Lagaan, QSQT, Sarfarosh & TZP look safe to me. Other 4 match ups are closer with Dangal, Earth, JJWS & RDB currently occupying a QF spot.
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October 12, 2018 at 9:10 AM
Hope Dangal is back in the race for the top film.
Rooting for Dangal, Lagaan and TZP. As Talaash is a lost cause no use rooting for it. Same with RDB.
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October 12, 2018 at 9:48 AM
Semi finalists shud be between dangal, lagaan, tzp, sarfarosh and rdb. Another likely candidate is qsqt. Anything else in top 4 will be a travesty.
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October 12, 2018 at 9:53 AM
You only forgot to mention JJWS & Earth 😀
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October 12, 2018 at 10:02 AM
They frankly dont deserve it. Neither qsqt if we leave our bias behind.
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October 12, 2018 at 12:11 PM
Ha, only two of these five would be in my personal semi-finals list!
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October 12, 2018 at 8:48 AM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
3 Idiots
Rang De Basanti 11
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par 14
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October 12, 2018 at 9:08 AM
JJWS
Ghajini
Earth
QSQT
3 Idiots (damn this was tough!)
DCH
Lagaan
TZP
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October 12, 2018 at 9:41 AM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Mangal Pandey
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Dangal
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 12, 2018 at 10:39 AM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander Vs Talaash
JJWS
Ghajini Vs Sarfarosh
Sarfarosh
Earth Vs Mangal Pandey
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum
QSQT
Dangal Vs 3 Idiots
Dangal
Dil Chahta Hai Vs Rang De Basanti
RDB
Lagaan Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin
Lagaan
Rangeela Vs Taare Zameen Par
Rangeela
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October 12, 2018 at 1:18 PM
@Jayshah I have decided it’s 3Idiots.My vote is for 3Idiots against Dangal.
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October 12, 2018 at 1:28 PM
Thanks
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October 12, 2018 at 9:28 PM
Jay, may be for Semi Final and Finals, u can have a new post
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October 12, 2018 at 10:23 PM
Hardly much action in this thread, so doubt the need of another thread. Most active members here have already voted for this round. Cant expect much from srk fans as they are struggling with their menopause. Jay shud move on to quarters now.
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October 12, 2018 at 11:51 PM
RDB and Talaash are classy.
Dangal and Lagaan massy in a classy way.
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October 13, 2018 at 1:04 AM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
3 Idiots
Dil Chahta Hai
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
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October 13, 2018 at 2:01 AM
If we go by our votes instead of jay’s wife, the quarters matches are:
Lagaan vs rdb
Qsqt vs dangal
Tzp vs earth
Sarfarosh vs jjws
Tzp is a sure-shot semi finalist. Rest will be interesting.
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October 13, 2018 at 3:57 AM
Changing Dangal -> 3I
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October 13, 2018 at 4:34 AM
Ohhhhh! The hunter is now the hunted! Conspiracy theories…
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October 13, 2018 at 5:09 AM
Ha. I have watched 3I here and there in slices but never could watch Lagaan and Dangal again. 🙂
AAA, JJWS, QSQt, RDB, talaash, DCH and 3I.
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October 13, 2018 at 5:10 AM
tzp
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October 13, 2018 at 4:42 AM
If one wants credibility then one will be disappointed. If one wants one day matches where deliberate shocks are introduced to make the match more exciting then one should view this as game than anything else. I will use this as game and enjoy. There are still more to come.
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October 13, 2018 at 5:10 AM
I don’t think anyone should take this seriously. Firstly no more than 30 people are voting, it hardly is trying to prove anything! People can use IMDb votes to get a better sense of ‘reality’ or box office collections or whatever. One’s own opinion is hardly going to waver too much. If Satyam or Bliss change back to Dangal I really won’t be throwing my toys out of the pram.
It’s not even ODI, this is like T20 or sudden death 6 balls! No strings attached!
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October 13, 2018 at 4:52 AM
if Lagaan is not the winner – then i want to leave this planet 🙂 no movie can come closer to that masterpiece…..no Dangal, no TZP, no 3i, no PK….nothing – the sheer spirit behind that film-making-shooting against the commercial demands of popular cinema, sheer disciplinary way of shooting (6-8 months at a stretch in the desert with clock-wise daily-discipline), the music, the casting, the screenplay, the grand production-values, dialogues, background score….everything…everything…was so good that even aamir has not managed to meet those levels still with any other film…..
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October 13, 2018 at 4:54 AM
it is like Sholay….even sippy himself can not / could not / and maybe will not be able to create the same magic again…..such movies come once in a while….Mughal-e-azam / Lagaan / Sholay….these are gems and will remain in top 5 of all time in Hindi cinema…
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October 13, 2018 at 4:57 AM
Here most of the people want just entertainment and laughs. We cant expect them to choose Lagaan or even Dangal or even a TZP. So just grin and bear it.
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October 13, 2018 at 5:06 AM
I already left this place when AAA was KO.
It’s m ghost now hovering here for RDB and JJWS 🙂
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October 13, 2018 at 5:25 AM
I think AAA doesn’t get it’s due. Such a fantastically written script. If Aamir did any sequel (I am not a fan of sequels) the only film he should from his filmography is AAA. That film has unfinished business IMO. And he should get Salman on board pronto before his career is finished! And Santoshi on it! It would be a rage. 102 NO worked so I have no doubts AAA would with older Aamir & Salman.
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October 13, 2018 at 5:39 AM
Magic happens and AAA is one such magic. 🙂
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October 13, 2018 at 5:02 AM
13-12 Dangal leads 3 Idiots. A tie score Dangal wins…
This match up deserves a tie IMO, I can live with that.
It’s a favourite film contest; you can define favourite anyway you want.
You could be picking a film based on it being the 1st you watched (I admit to that)
Or a song and movie has special meaning to you (for me a film here is very good but won’t win for me but a song is the driving force till now)
Or it’s incredibly repeat watchable
Or technically it’s the best
Or like Saket you love the visual aspect of art (in certain instances)
Or whatever!
There really isn’t a reason to justify it, it’s personal as a choice
You can buy votes, market your film, do whatever! At the end no one is holding a gun to anyone’s head to pick or even vote!
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October 13, 2018 at 5:13 AM
Agree : Film one likes and has deep powerful memories not gr8 cinema and rest everything is relative even what’s gr8 ?:)
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October 13, 2018 at 5:20 AM
With SRK in the end that’s how it ended up for me in the final. I’ll have watched DDLJ 10 times Vs Swades once. I’ll have listened to it’s songs 1000 of times more. Every wedding I go to a DDLJ song will be there. I’m not saying it’s a technically better film or performance than Swades, just in my life I have way more time for DDLJ than Swades, it’s way more accessible for me. I’m basically just more likely to ‘want’ to watch it again.
I don’t have to justify the above statement to anyone really.
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October 13, 2018 at 5:41 AM
Agree here from where u are coming.
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October 13, 2018 at 7:33 AM
Update (2)
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander 17 Vs Talaash 8
Ghajini 7 Vs Sarfarosh 18
Earth 15 Vs Mangal Pandey 10
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 23 Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum 2
Dangal 13 Vs 3 Idiots 12
Dil Chahta Hai 11 Vs Rang De Basanti 14
Lagaan 23 Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin 2
Rangeela 7 Vs Taare Zameen Par 18
I’ll give it till Sunday 8pm GMT.
JJWS, Sarfarosh, Earth, QSQT, Dangal, RDB, Lagaan, TZP heading through.
2 matches can change, 3 Idiots needs a 2 vote swing to catch Dangal as a tie score won’t be enough.
DCH needs to tie with RDB so 3 votes swing and it will go through…
On paper these 2 were the matches of the Round of 16. 4 big films that could have won the entire thing were drawn against each other, all films post Lagaan. Earth has done very well till now. Can it continue to surprise?
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October 13, 2018 at 7:39 AM
looks like 3 of my favorites will be eliminated (talaash, ghajini, mp).
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October 13, 2018 at 7:44 AM
Yes of those I think MP had the best chance here. Possibly if Ghajini or Talaash fought Earth they may have got through. I’d have chosen all 3 over Earth.
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October 13, 2018 at 8:00 AM
You always have QSQT 😀👍
After picking DDLJ over Swades, putting your chips on QSQT may open a Pandora’s box though!
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October 13, 2018 at 8:10 AM
true!
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October 13, 2018 at 8:53 AM
Satyam is like coconut – Masala outside and romantic inside 😛
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October 13, 2018 at 9:09 AM
That’s NyKavi. He chose JJWS over Talaash and DCH over RDB.
Although to be fair, he does have Kavi in his monicker. Woh Prem Ras Ke Kavi Hai!
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October 13, 2018 at 10:01 AM
Earth and MP hve to be the most overrated films in this blog. Nowhere else have I seen people place so much importance on these films. So much that they’ve easily edged out AAA which didnt even make it to the top 16!
MP was interesting in patches but it totally went bonkers in its storytelling post interval. The last one hour of that film goes haywire like a Mohit Suri film. As far asEarth goes, I just find it pretentious just like most of Deepa Mehta’s works. Although I’d say It has one of Aamir’s wonderful performances
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October 13, 2018 at 10:11 AM
tonybhai, earth is genuinely a good film – MP is overrated yes as it was a half-baked film with not much of a story-line. But earth is notches ahead of many of aamir’s films….
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October 13, 2018 at 12:24 PM
i think id take many of Aamir’s 90s films above it. But to each his own, i guess
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October 13, 2018 at 10:18 AM
For me it’s the opposite. At least with respect to MP-AAA. I find AAA quite overrated. It has its amusing moments but I think it’s overall a flat film.
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October 13, 2018 at 10:34 AM
My final 16 I would replace DHKMN & AHAT with AAA & PK. MP/Earth would be in Aamir’s top 16 films for me.
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October 13, 2018 at 10:50 AM
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October 13, 2018 at 10:56 AM
I just cant believe it. The background visuals are so vulgar. Is it from the original film?
Can you remove this video.
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October 13, 2018 at 11:05 AM
I went to YouTube for AAA clips – there are so many!
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October 13, 2018 at 11:11 AM
This always has me in spits
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October 13, 2018 at 11:19 AM
Also didn’t know point 5 that it went straight to video weeks after release.
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October 13, 2018 at 12:13 PM
SANJANA i think youre overthinking. Lol
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October 14, 2018 at 1:17 AM
Earth is flat?
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October 13, 2018 at 11:19 AM
Jay :
Kaun si movie pichhad rahi hain, main vote badal sakta hoon 😛 ?
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October 13, 2018 at 11:22 AM
I think DCH deserves some love
Be a man scene 😀
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October 13, 2018 at 11:24 AM
Easily the best buddies movie! ZNMD not a patch on it!
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October 13, 2018 at 11:31 AM
never liked ZNMD : pop philosophy 😉
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October 13, 2018 at 9:17 PM
ZNMD was the very essence of “wannabe”. A bunch of clueless f-ers trying to find themselves via self-indulgent romp trough Spain. Itna khoj ke mile ga kya?
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October 13, 2018 at 11:28 AM
I love how Saif knows what will happen but is still convinced Priya will accept his apology based on Aamir’s insistence and it’s so obviously a trap. Akshaye playing the calm, sensible friend can’t do anything…
Just the copout ending here ruins this film but it’s still better than YRF endings. And the visuals throughout are still very fresh.
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October 13, 2018 at 11:30 AM
Sach main !!!
DCH transformed Indian movies for ever. It is most consequential and has lasting impact how movies, dialogues, actors behaving normal ppl interacing on screen and not looking at cameras and theatrics.
per RDB se memories hain 😛
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October 13, 2018 at 11:38 AM
RDB is very much influenced from DCH. The buddy buddy love for sure. But this was such a tough choice I could flip a coin. RDB has that split track and obviously is very complicated too compared to DCH. And RDB music is way better. But I plugged for the original multiplex game changer here rather than the wave movement type film.
Rang De Basanti
I like how these silly boys are not interested but gradually transform through the process of history…
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October 13, 2018 at 12:21 PM
This is an brilliant video detailing the strengths of RDB. Some terrific comments about the cinematography here.
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October 13, 2018 at 1:00 PM
Terrific… ROFL at the pile of shit that follows remark.
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October 13, 2018 at 1:24 PM
I’m exactly like the narrator here. Ideologically back then I had no problems with RDB. It was deeply inspiring and moving, one of the best experiences of cinema. But over time I can see the issues, but I still love this film… even if I would be passive aggressive in this scenario.
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October 13, 2018 at 1:40 PM
Watch the other video on Sairat. It’s even better…
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October 13, 2018 at 12:42 PM
Another terrific analysis of Sairat. I know this is a thread about Aamir’s films but this is a great discussion on what it means to tell a story visually…
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October 13, 2018 at 12:56 PM
What caught my attention was about Fair Use under copyright law. There is a big dispute going on between users and copyright holders.
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October 13, 2018 at 2:54 PM
Another great video on Film Criticism.
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October 14, 2018 at 1:16 AM
Round of 16
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander Vs Talaash
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander ( one of my Favourite Aamir movies, i have watched this so many times)
Ghajini Vs Sarfarosh
Ghajini
Earth Vs Mangal Pandey
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum
QSQT
Dangal Vs 3 Idiots
3 Idiots
Dil Chahta Hai Vs Rang De Basanti
DCH (Very tough, never have a movie left me thinking like RDB did, but i have enjoyed DCH more.)
Lagaan Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin
Lagaan
Rangeela Vs Taare Zameen Par
Rangeela
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October 14, 2018 at 2:48 AM
Afsana Pyar Ka. 7 votes – is this good?
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October 14, 2018 at 3:49 AM
It’s probably this song… can’t be much more.
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October 14, 2018 at 4:03 AM
Can’t believe it has got 7 votes against DCH, Talaash, RH. I think the 7 votes would have been against RH. Can you confirm?
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October 14, 2018 at 4:10 AM
All against Raja Hindustani.
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October 14, 2018 at 5:08 AM
its a case of votes against Raja Hindustani than for Afsana Pyaar Ka
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October 14, 2018 at 3:15 AM
Update (3)
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander 18 Vs Talaash 8
Ghajini 8 Vs Sarfarosh 18
Earth 16 Vs Mangal Pandey 10
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 24 Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum 2
Dangal 13 Vs 3 Idiots 13
Dil Chahta Hai 12 Vs Rang De Basanti 14
Lagaan 24 Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin 2
Rangeela 8 Vs Taare Zameen Par 18
2 absolute World Cup classics are going on. 3 Idiots (with some support from the federation’s motivational schemes) has equalised against Dangal. The match is now in injury time with Dangal still ahead on points.
DCH is providing a mini comeback too. Still behind but needs 2 votes to overturn RDB.
12 hours of injury time to go…
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October 14, 2018 at 3:38 AM
Let’s remind ourselves of the cracking opening scene from Dangal
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October 14, 2018 at 3:44 AM
And how Geeta insults her father and beats him in a match, then starts losing her ways and that phone call scene…
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October 14, 2018 at 3:54 AM
Dangal 13
Rang De Basanti 14
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October 14, 2018 at 10:46 AM
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
Sarfarosh
Earth
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
3 Idiots
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Rangeela
I was bummed when PK went out so quickly; to me its between Lagaan and Rangeela for my fave…probably will go with Lagaan!
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October 14, 2018 at 1:28 PM
Update (4)
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander 19 Vs Talaash 8
Ghajini 8 Vs Sarfarosh 19
Earth 17 Vs Mangal Pandey 10
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 25 Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum 2
Dangal 13 Vs 3 Idiots 14
Dil Chahta Hai 12 Vs Rang De Basanti 15
Lagaan 25 Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin 2
Rangeela 9 Vs Taare Zameen Par 18
2 hours left and 3 Idiots has taken a lead on Dangal…in the match of the tournament thus far!
2 hours left – happy for any changes at this critical stage. Last minute substitutions to avoid heartbreak!!! Can Dangal deliver a decisive blow to 3 Idiots????
QF draw to follow in 2 hours or so. As things stand, final 8 is;
JJWS
Sarfarosh
Earth
QSQT
3 Idiots
RDB
Lagaan
TZP
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October 14, 2018 at 2:38 PM
Dangal-3I is a nail-biter!
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October 14, 2018 at 2:41 PM
I can expect some grievances here…that was quite a match up…
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October 14, 2018 at 2:44 PM
Voting closed
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October 14, 2018 at 2:45 PM
Results of Round of 16
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander 19 Vs Talaash 8
Ghajini 8 Vs Sarfarosh 19
Earth 17 Vs Mangal Pandey 10
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 25 Vs Akele Hum Akele Tum 2
Dangal 13 Vs 3 Idiots 14
Dil Chahta Hai 12 Vs Rang De Basanti 15
Lagaan 25 Vs Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin 2
Rangeela 9 Vs Taare Zameen Par 18
Final 8
JJWS
Sarfarosh
Earth
QSQT
3 Idiots
RDB
Lagaan
TZP
Draw soon….
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October 14, 2018 at 2:48 PM
Quarter Finals – please vote by Tuesday 8pm GMT
Rang De Basanti Vs Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Lagaan Vs Earth
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar Vs Taare Zameen Par
Sarfarosh Vs 3 Idiots
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October 14, 2018 at 2:51 PM
QSQT
Lagaan
JJWS
3 Idiots
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October 14, 2018 at 4:15 PM
Haha. Looks like Jay successfully bumped out Dangal. Here’s the QF picks
QSQT
Lagaan
JJWS
3I
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October 14, 2018 at 10:54 PM
Jay, now that you have successfully kicked out Dangal, I want a REFUND!!!
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October 15, 2018 at 1:39 AM
LOL. Next move is to convert TZP fans…that bichara Ishaan is getting walloped it seems!
The last few seconds here – I’ve never seen so many grown men weep! Such a reward. Satyam should revisit his TZP reviews, he wallaps SRK for good measure! And this moment really sums up the entire film!
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October 15, 2018 at 2:05 AM
If GF was here, his review was another cracker… Sandhya’s too!
What a moment. Throughout the film Ishaan is hiding and here he slowly enters in and see’s this joyous reflection!
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October 14, 2018 at 10:57 PM
QSQT
Lagaan
TZP
Sarfarosh
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October 14, 2018 at 2:49 PM
My QF vote
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
3 Idiots
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October 14, 2018 at 3:08 PM
QFs:
QSQT
Lagaan
JJWS
3I
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October 14, 2018 at 3:10 PM
Quarter Finals :
Rang De Basanti
Earth
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar
3 Idiots
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October 14, 2018 at 3:22 PM
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
Sarfarosh
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October 14, 2018 at 3:37 PM
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
3 Idiots
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October 14, 2018 at 3:42 PM
QSQT
Lagaan
JJWS
3 Idiots
Dangal/DCH getting knocked off was sad. But this is the strength of the bench! I wonder which of the other Khan movies can even hold a candle to the last 16, much less the last 8?
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October 14, 2018 at 3:49 PM
Salman will strike back when Jay does his WC. Then you can choose between Biwi No 1 and Judwaa… or Ready and Bodyguard.. and if there are enough Salman fans the sensible film he does once per decade will get eliminated in the very first round..
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October 14, 2018 at 3:56 PM
LOL that’s just too funny…
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October 14, 2018 at 4:10 PM
I can’t torture myself with a Salman tournament. It would be pretty abysmal. Could just do a straight final 4 or I think do some Salman songs…he’s got decent music through his filmography. Just hope there isn’t anyone upset if I don’t nominate a Swag Se Swagat or Selfie into the tournament! I’d rather nominate Dhol Baje or Munni Badnaam…
Will take a break after this tournament as metoo is gathering pace. Will return with Sridevi Vs Madhuri at some point…
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October 14, 2018 at 11:47 PM
salman’s last 4 could be andaz apna apna, maine pyar kiya, HAHk and Bajrangi. and AAA should win by a mile
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October 14, 2018 at 11:47 PM
or maybe Khamoshi.. that’s a rather good film
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October 14, 2018 at 11:55 PM
Saajan, HDDCS, Sultan can also be in QF.
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October 15, 2018 at 1:17 PM
And what a song Bahon Ki Darmiyan…
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October 15, 2018 at 2:51 AM
Another ‘ghost’ World Cup victory for Aamir!
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October 15, 2018 at 6:52 AM
for me the two best Salman films are HDDCS and Bajrangi.
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October 14, 2018 at 3:54 PM
Dangal and DCH would make my final 8 though not 100% sure on the former. DCH most definitely. I doubt I’d have any Salman film. Maybe a few SRK ones – but I guess Andaz Apna Apna might sneak in so Salman would get 1 in.
Even though Aamir has some tough match ups, it’s not as difficult as the SRK tournament, quite similar…just feel a little more sorry here for a film getting knocked out whereas for SRK felt sorry for a film getting through!
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October 14, 2018 at 4:21 PM
Salman films are not that bad.
HAHK
MPK
Khamoshi
HDDCS
Kick
Dabangg
Bajrangi
TZH
ETT
Bodyguard
AAA
Patthar Ke Phool
Saajan
Love
Karan Arjun
Pyaar kiya to darna kya
Jab pyaar kisise hota hai
Hum Saath Saath Hai
KKHH
Sultan
Wanted
Ready
No Entry
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October 14, 2018 at 4:22 PM
You should do Salman films.
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October 14, 2018 at 4:41 PM
I’ll do it eventually, motivation is down at moment! But it’s not horrific. I could watch 10 films here easily again.
HAHK, MPK, HSSH, HDDCS, BB, Dabanngg, AAA, Wanted, Ready and Saajan. But hardly any of them for Salman specifically, that’s the problem!
A film not listed is Partner too.
I think this is my problem maybe. I can’t explain it. I just don’t like watching Salman or Akshay in general. But some movies they have done are watchable.
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October 14, 2018 at 5:32 PM
Khamoshi also though he doesn’t of course have a lead part here. His early Love is pretty decent too. Think this too is a remake. His MSK with Akshay is fairly enjoyable for that terrain.
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October 14, 2018 at 8:51 PM
This Salman looks competitive once you tone down your expectations of quality a couple of notches.
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October 14, 2018 at 4:36 PM
If you leave the very oldies, Mumtaaz, Sharmila, Hema Malini, Raakhee have much better filmographies than Madhuri and Sridevi.
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October 14, 2018 at 5:33 PM
Madhuri was unlucky to be caught between two eras (the end of the 80s and the early 90s). She didn’t quite get the films worthy of her gifts (barring exceptions). The fact that she was still so loved or still had those iconic moments says something.
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October 14, 2018 at 6:29 PM
a true-blue aamir-hater this guy: https://twitter.com/GigastarAmir/
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October 14, 2018 at 8:50 PM
Its a gimme when someone spells Amir instead of Aamir.
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October 14, 2018 at 6:29 PM
Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
Lagaan
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar
Sarfarosh
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October 14, 2018 at 7:12 PM
RDB
Lagaan
JJWS
Sarfarosh
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October 14, 2018 at 7:36 PM
Are we allowing vote change after one hour?
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October 15, 2018 at 1:28 AM
Given it’s just 4 films… can vote change throughout.
In groups it’s very tedious and doesn’t really change things. Knockouts it’s fine.
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October 15, 2018 at 2:24 AM
It doesn’t matter for most part but I think in close contest, changing vote is not fair in knockout stage..As I said previously, who are on fence should wait.
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October 15, 2018 at 2:35 AM
Yes on the fence voters … Wait. Try not to be strategic with your own vote, better to be so with someone else’s LOL!
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October 15, 2018 at 3:06 AM
haha…
I checked Dangal got 14 votes but someone changed his/her vote later.
Bliss
Satyam
IdeaUnique
MyselfAamir
Tom
Shalini
Munna
SP
Marcus
Saket
Latha
NYKavi
Shivaay
Firangi Mallah
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October 15, 2018 at 3:22 AM
Bliss!
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October 24, 2018 at 7:25 PM
just saw your comment Munna, yes I changed mine after Jay ‘convinced’ me to!
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October 25, 2018 at 12:34 PM
I see “tempted” nothing explicit 🙂
ps – I don’t find many scenes in 3 idiot worthy of my laugh..I was kind of cringing when balatkari scene with spoon feeding…I will LOL in Andhadhun black comedy (Tabu at Ayshman place was just hilarious)
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October 15, 2018 at 3:19 AM
munna:
Ek voe ki keemat tum kya jaano, munna babu 😛
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October 15, 2018 at 7:02 AM
Where did Bliss change his vote? I don’t see any comment on that. Sab underhand dealing to promote your favorites, eh?
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October 15, 2018 at 7:03 AM
Read the thread Jeeves.
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October 14, 2018 at 8:26 PM
QSQT
Lagaan
JJWS
3 Idiots
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October 14, 2018 at 10:09 PM
QF
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
3 Idiots
All 4 are heavy weights.3Idiots bounced back and how.India’s biggest Global movie ever.
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October 14, 2018 at 10:14 PM
Jayshah what is the current score of QF?
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October 14, 2018 at 11:07 PM
while i am happy to see Earth in QF, Dangal deserved to be there more than TZP….that is a bloody 2000 cr film 🙂 and more influential than TZP…..Earth is a gem and very glad to see that here although it was less of a commercial success at that time….
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October 14, 2018 at 11:24 PM
QFs:
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar
3 Idiots
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October 14, 2018 at 11:39 PM
QF Votes:
RDB
Lagaan
TZP
Sarfarosh
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October 14, 2018 at 11:32 PM
Looks like 3 Idiots may face Lagaan in the finals and the former may win.
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October 15, 2018 at 1:00 AM
yes, 3 idiots since jay shah (and his wife) is rooting for that movie 😉
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October 14, 2018 at 11:35 PM
QF
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander
3 Idiots
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October 14, 2018 at 11:40 PM
My favourite song from 3 Idiots.
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October 15, 2018 at 1:07 AM
this one for me
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HZu3bXWhnX4
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October 15, 2018 at 1:23 AM
yes one can watch this song again and again…..superb
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October 15, 2018 at 1:10 AM
Rang De Basanti Vs Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak
QSQT
Lagaan Vs Earth
Lagaan
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar Vs Taare Zameen Par
JJWS
Sarfarosh Vs 3 Idiots
3 Idiots
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October 15, 2018 at 1:46 AM
I am slowly warming up to 3 Idiots. 3 Idiots more than that balatkari scene.
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October 15, 2018 at 1:56 AM
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar
Sarfarosh
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October 15, 2018 at 2:13 AM
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October 15, 2018 at 2:14 AM
ashu will be one happy man for what is going on with SK now
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October 15, 2018 at 2:25 AM
and the most hilarious part of this was Farhaan Akhtar’s reactions – ha ha ha – as if the hell broke loose…..such a fake actor, such a fake person……..
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October 15, 2018 at 2:31 AM
Now I remember that. The spat between them. Dignified response from Gowarikar.
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October 15, 2018 at 2:35 AM
even SRK has been a cheapo all thru the award functions….very distasteful always
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October 15, 2018 at 2:17 AM
Now dandiya season and navaratri.
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October 15, 2018 at 2:22 AM
timeless classic – i mean see the combo – ARR / Aamir / Gauri / Javed Akhtar / Ashutosh – Radha/Krishna – and well…..the song is so beautifully interwoven in the film that u do not feel like taking ur eyes off…..
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October 15, 2018 at 2:28 AM
and of-course Asha Bhonsle and Udit Narayan for the lovely rendition
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October 15, 2018 at 2:27 AM
RDB
Lagaan
JJWS
Sarfarosh
I am devastated that Dangal is out. So a contra vote against 3I
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October 15, 2018 at 2:36 AM
LOL Latha!
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October 15, 2018 at 2:53 AM
That is not a fair vote
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October 15, 2018 at 3:22 AM
#MeToo Latha. This grave injustice to favor ones wifes choices will be met with opposition
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October 15, 2018 at 3:52 AM
also 3 idiots is by the director who tried to whitwash Sanjay Dutt’s action in his next. not acceptable Raju
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October 15, 2018 at 2:30 AM
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar
Sarfarosh
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October 15, 2018 at 2:40 AM
Aamir learning that Ishaan likes art with the TZP title track in background…of course the scene that follows he takes the father to the sword…but I like this scene more.
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October 15, 2018 at 3:44 AM
As trust is about of a concern here. I request a volunteer to come forward to whom I can send a list of films ‘numbered’ and another who can choose sequences of numbers 1-16 or 1-8 or 1-4. We can avoid all the perceived unfairness that way.
The group’s methods I have shown so not changing that!
In effect I am empowering you to take the abuse!
If the list is;
1 A
2 B
3 C
4 D
And someone sends back 3214
It means C Vs B and A Vs D. Hope that is not so difficult to understand!
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October 15, 2018 at 5:21 AM
Sending email is dependent on reply. I propose following.
1-32
# Number of words in movies in ascending order. (3 idiots will be ahead of list in Andaaz Apna Apma… Dangal ahead of JJWS)
# If it contains same number of words then give precedence to number followed by alphabet (3 idiots will be ahead of secret superstar in list…Dangal ahead of Talaash)
Group them in 1-4, 5-8……
Once they have performed..
-> 1-16 seedings can be made based on votes..if votes are same then apply above rules.
-> 1-8 reuse same seeding from 1-16 or reseed them based on votes in 1-16…
-> and so on..
ps – While we are tough on you but it is to make process consistent and fair 🙂
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October 15, 2018 at 5:34 AM
The group method I like 😀 I will use that next.
If you come up with non vote/non seeded way of knockouts I will consider it. I veto anything where a ‘perceieved’ superior film gets an ‘easier’ ride… this is like FA Cup. Manchester United can meet Liverpool in 3rd round or any round. If they’re lucky enough to avoid each other till final then great!
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October 15, 2018 at 5:52 AM
It’s a good method. My group 7 here would have been Earth, Talaash, Andaz Apna Apna & Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander!
Either way you cut Aamir’s groups you really end up with 1 really head scratching group.
Group 5 is Mann, Dhoom 3, Afsana Pyar Ka & Hum Hain Rahi Pyar Ka!
I veto immediately thid group method too 😀
Ps. I counted blanks as characters here… otherwise adding up results it’s too manual. I have a life too 😂
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October 15, 2018 at 6:02 AM
There is going to be one winner…
You can not be fair in every possible way 🙂
ps – Next I am going to ask for affirmative action on earlier movies..voters are too young or they have receded from memory!
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October 15, 2018 at 6:05 AM
I am saying count the words no each letter. Otherwise I have to write some script.
You took upon yourself to make your life tough..and we are not helping with our cribbing!
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October 15, 2018 at 6:06 AM
Alphabet counting is kinda same as random number generation (not a knock on jay’s sweetheart by any means). I suggest to seed the round robins based on toral number of votes in imdb (not average ratings as thats subjective). Then do the seeding in knock outs as munna suggested.
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October 15, 2018 at 6:59 AM
If someone sets up groups – go ahead, happy to expedite this process… offshore it…top 16 Madhuri / top 16 Sridevi movies as per IMDb # of votes…then I’ll figure out the rest. Otherwise I am spending a lot of time on IMDb – what a pointless waste of time! Marcus can do it!
Personally think IMDb is unfair. It is much more likely to be used and abused by a certain demographic and is unfair to a 60 something old person who watched 60’s / 70’s films but cannot access internet for whatever reason.
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October 15, 2018 at 7:07 AM
Put another way my father won’t know what IMDb is. So he won’t vote for Deewar. His opinion is ignored. But a fan of today might be more likely to know of Secret Superstar and say they vote 9. It totally contaminates the data.
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October 15, 2018 at 7:10 AM
Simply put Sholay has 45,000 votes Vs 3 Idiots 283,000. It’s a bias tool period. VETO
Let’s not get pedantic about this. Otherwise those who offer solutions will be delegated to deliver them! Munna, Marcus & SP so far 😂
Just play and enjoy, change your vote etc.
Don’t bring this unnecessary stress into your life! It will cause arguments at home 😀
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October 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM
Look at the demographic of Sholay voters. One third are 18-29 years old, not even born when it came out. Only 2k out of 45k are 45+ so imagine who hasn’t voted simply because of India’s economic state and the number of people who are no more to even vote. IMDb is useful for similar period films not over a 40 year timeline comparison.
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October 15, 2018 at 6:38 AM
I trust you. I was only trying to make 3I win a little difficult
I actually do not mind Sarfarosh . It is frequently telecast on some channel or the other and repeat viewing is not too bad .I really like the guy who plays khabri
On the other hand , with 3I I am unable to watch Kareena – I do not why I have acquired a recent distaste for her
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October 15, 2018 at 7:55 AM
I trust you. It doesn’t matter if you’re voting against a film! A vote is a vote… harmless!
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October 15, 2018 at 3:58 AM
Take a leaf out of Andaz Apna Apna fans. They took it on the chin that AAA didn’t make it out of groups! That’s the spirit!
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October 15, 2018 at 4:34 AM
AAA fans trust U. 🙂
AAA ka nam lia – “Aapka plan he galat tha. Aapko ladki ki kidnap karna tha aur baap se paise mangne the ”
Sawal Ek, Jawab Do. aur phir lambi khamoshi
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October 15, 2018 at 8:16 AM
Some of the titles are funny.
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls025761654/
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October 15, 2018 at 8:29 AM
Update (1)
Rang De Basanti 11 Vs Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 9
Lagaan 19 Vs Earth 1
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar 14 Vs Taare Zameen Par 6
Sarfarosh 8 Vs 3 Idiots 12
Two close matches. 30 hours to go…
Come on QSQT fans! What the hell is wrong with you! Ffs, ruining my day here! I know Marcus and Saket will go with RDB. Jeez this draw is awful, I feel for my Dangal friends now….the classic songs that will never die! This match up sucks. One film Aamir gets shot to death, other one he stabs himself! But remember Juhi! Don’t let this be the end of QSQT!
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October 15, 2018 at 8:32 AM
This is not vote for Juhi!
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October 15, 2018 at 8:40 AM
I’ll be damned if QSQT blows out here. This is the movie that started this journey. And it ends with RDB? Remember people the defence minister is killed by the gang in RDB! #murderers 😀
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October 15, 2018 at 8:44 AM
Take it easy. It is only a film. Juhi is now Juhi aunty playing character roles. But Uncle aamir is still playing hero to Katrina and Fatima.
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October 15, 2018 at 8:52 AM
It’s ok. Just thought QSQT would be getting to Semi at least here. RDB is deserving. Toughest group, tough R16, tough QF. Doing it the hard way for sure! Totally deserving.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:00 AM
Not just Journey of Aamir but all the other stars. This movie started the trend of launching new pairs with love stories and new music directors. Salman, Akshay, Ajay, Suneil, Rahul Roy, Saif, etc etc and all the ladies from these were launched out of this effect. We have a totally new Bombay Film industry due to this one movie.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:20 AM
Sorry left out SRK by accident but you get the point about transformation of Bombay and how many new artists this helped introduce. Leading pairs, music, lyricists etc.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/bollywood/qayamat-se-qayamat-tak-aamir-khan-juhi-chawla-5054841/lite/
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October 15, 2018 at 8:35 AM
Looks like 3 Idiots, Lagaan and JJWS are making it to the finals.
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October 15, 2018 at 8:35 AM
One or two of them.
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October 15, 2018 at 8:59 AM
wow, didn’t expect QSQT to lose out..
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October 15, 2018 at 9:04 AM
You are a romantic at heart!
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October 15, 2018 at 9:08 AM
Satyam’s favourite Bachchan film is Baghban? Or Kabhie Kabhie?
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October 15, 2018 at 9:13 AM
Baghban is a poor copy of Rajesh Khanna’s Avtaar…..with the most cliched dialogues one can imagine. I will loose a lot of respect for Satyam if he takes this one over KK.
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October 15, 2018 at 9:23 AM
ha, not a fan of Baghban at all, nor Kabhi Kabhie for that matter.
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October 15, 2018 at 9:15 AM
and Avtaar itself wasn’t a great movie….
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October 15, 2018 at 9:12 AM
It’s a tragedy. No pun intended
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October 15, 2018 at 9:13 AM
Vocalise your frustration QSQT fans…it might sway a vote or 2!
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October 15, 2018 at 9:18 AM
RDB is a very well-made film, but QSQT is one of the great love stories in Hindi film history, a film that features not just memorable music and a great lead pair but also — and this is often neglected — a fine ensemble cast, with Dalip Tahl and Goga Kapoor simply fantastic. In fact, the film’s opening sequences, set in the past, are among the best sequences ever directed by Mansoor Khan, with a sense of impending doom and tragedy that represents the very best of masala cinema IMO.
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October 15, 2018 at 9:21 AM
I have always said this….Qayamat se Qayamat tak, aside from a great film and everything, is perhaps the most unique title in the history of hindi cinema…..don’t know how these guys came up with it.
Mansoor made 2 great movies and 2 mediocre ones but he should have continued with movies. He left way too early.
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October 15, 2018 at 9:36 AM
Excellent point — oddly enough, when we speak of RDB and QSQT, we have two of the most wistful songs I can think of from the last few decades, Papa Kehte Hain and Roobaroo…
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October 15, 2018 at 2:52 PM
The ebbs and flows in Tu Bin Bataye make it my favourite song from the album. It’s a rather quiet song by Rahman standards, with very little in terms of instrumentation, but it’s high on notes. A soothing, lilting composition which gathers steam slowly as it progresses, it’s good for listening when one is in a contemplative mood. It is one of my favourite ARR songs.
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October 15, 2018 at 3:03 PM
Will also add this: Rakeysh Mehra has excellent, excellent taste in music. All of his films have fantastic music. Hell, he even created magic with Anu Malik in Aks.
Both Bhaag Milkha Bhaag & Mirzya feature Shankar-Ehsan-Loy’s best work in years. Perhaps their best ever!
Even with Rahaman, both RDB & Delhi 6 have to count among his greatest music albums.
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October 15, 2018 at 9:49 AM
And Aloknath was also there as the benign grandfather! Whatever the allegations, he was good at certain kind of roles.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:20 AM
Q:
RDB has one of the greatest song of decade – Lata and Rehman’s Lukka chupi …….. IMHO.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:21 AM
Rahman simply doesn’t sing enough.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:32 AM
Off the top of head; Dil Se Re, Yeh Jo Des Hai Tera, Khalbali, Lukka Chuppi, Tere Bina, Jaage Hain, Khwaja, Rehna Tu…he sings so well. Needed to sing more.
He should have sung Kaise Mujhe from Ghajini. His kind of song…
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October 15, 2018 at 10:45 AM
of his Hindi stuff my favorite might be the Swades song.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:37 AM
Yes, it is one of the very few songs that brings tears to my eyes on a regular basis — the strategic (ruthless?) use of a fading Lata’s voice for the old mother is a masterstroke.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:31 AM
Rahman as a singer does have some great songs in hindi….Chale Chalo, Dil se re, Jai Ho, Khalbali…..the man should def sing more (but then again, he has pretty much stopped doing full on Hindi movies now)….Ruby Ruby was a reminder of how goes this guy still is…
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October 15, 2018 at 6:21 PM
Rahman also sung Chale Chalo from Lagaan, I think.
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October 16, 2018 at 2:09 AM
Agree with Bliss regarding Lukka Chuppi, though Lata is great in this songs AR Rahman elates the song to new levels.
Kya Bataoon Maa Kahan Hoon Main
Yahan Udney Ko Mere Khula Aasmaan Hai
Tere Kisson Jaisa Bhola Salona
Jahan Hain Yahan Sapno Vala
Meri Patang Ho Befikar Udd Rahi Hai Maa
Dor Koi Loote Nahin Beech Se Kaate Na
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October 16, 2018 at 2:25 AM
he even sung title song for JTYJN
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October 15, 2018 at 9:20 AM
yeah! I think one of the two greatest youth love stories of Hindi cinema (the other one being Bobby) is being eliminated..
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October 15, 2018 at 9:04 AM
Happy so far……Lagaan, JJWS, 3 Idiots……probably my 3 fav Aamir movies
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October 15, 2018 at 9:05 AM
LOL congratulations! 1 will almost definitely reach the final!
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October 15, 2018 at 9:08 AM
I will be shocked if Lagaan does not take the title but lets see…..if Aamir stops working today and you have to pick one movie….it will be Lagaan. The movie that changed his career (and hindi cinema)
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October 15, 2018 at 9:11 AM
I’d say Lagaan is heavy favourite now. Dangala fans will vote against 3 Idiots 😀
RDB is a dark horse here… admirably knocking out Ghulam, PK and DCH so far.
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October 15, 2018 at 9:06 AM
I am neither happy nor sad. Only curious!
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October 15, 2018 at 9:46 AM
Leo’s best film will be Titanic here?
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October 15, 2018 at 9:52 AM
Hell no but QSQT is evergreen – it passes the test of time effortlessly. Absolute classic being knocked out here! Go and watch it Sanjana, there is no Farida Jalal either!
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October 15, 2018 at 9:55 AM
I watched it many times! I like it. But changing the vote is difficult now. I would like to stick to first choice as a matter of principle.
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October 15, 2018 at 9:57 AM
Tbh I have a huge weakness for Titanic. Obviously it’s no Departed or Wolf on Wall Street or whatever but it’s still quite a memorable film. The traditional WHMS or You’ve Got Mail type romances I never really liked…much prefer the British ones like Notting Hill or Love Actually!
Soon the forum will be called loveshot 😀
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October 15, 2018 at 9:58 AM
Same with me.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:01 AM
Huge Titanic fan…loved the last 90 minutes or so after the iceberg hit. If I have to pick the best Leo movie, it will probably be The Departed.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:05 AM
Agree. But I could watch Titanic many times over. I just think the ending is shitty and selfish! She really couldn’t make space for him? Utter bullshit. But this is a good romantic film. Not many I like from Hollywood but this is one. Plus it was a movie for the ages, I think in school anyone and everyone was talking about it whether it was THAT song or Leo or Kate – whatever it is the most talked about Hollywood movie in my lifetime. Wasn’t in the Star Wars era.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:17 AM
Shutter Island !!!
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October 15, 2018 at 10:35 AM
I have never seen an actor peek from a single movie the way Leo did from Titanic. The craze at the end of 1997 and pretty much until April of 1998 was insane. The man with the iron mask came in March of 1998 and the only reason it debuted number 2 to Titanic was Leo….this guy just took off after Titanic and yet he was probably the only main guy or an artist from the movie not to EVEN be nominated for an Oscar.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:42 AM
and Titanic was considered DOA…..the movie was supposed to have come out in July but was postponed. It went over budget by a lot (200+M for a movie released in 1997?) and the first weekend was a modest 28M…but then it just kept going and going and going and going….have not seen anything like it since then (even Avatar for what it did is not the same). I watched it again a few months later on IMAX screen in NYC at a freaking 11 PM show and it was a FULL HOUSE! I could hear people weeping when Rose let Jack go!….Simply Amazing.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:46 AM
I put up these links the other day:
https://film.avclub.com/there-may-never-be-a-hit-like-titanic-ever-again-1798264811
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/11/28/box-office-titanics-record-crushing-run-could-never-be-replicated-today/#14dafbb2470c
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October 15, 2018 at 10:57 AM
This was a global phenomenon too so not just isolated to US, how some movies can be. It was #1 everywhere…and those weekly figures went on and on…
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October 15, 2018 at 11:59 AM
I had tough time getting ticket at PVR Saket..I remember finally watching it in 5 or 6th week Tuesday 10 AM show!
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October 15, 2018 at 12:02 PM
I think I watched Titanic at home, that itself was pretty courageous… with the parents.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM
LOL, on the last bit! but agree on Titanic..
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October 15, 2018 at 10:14 AM
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October 15, 2018 at 10:20 AM
Rdb
Lagaan
Tzp
Sarfarosh
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October 15, 2018 at 10:59 AM
For iconoclasts like me, RDB and Dangal will anyday trounce a Lagaan or 3I without any reservations. And if one is a traditional, then its quite ironical if he/she fancies to be an Aamir fan.
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October 15, 2018 at 11:08 AM
Hardly iconoclastic to vote for the biggest grosser! Or for that matter RDB, itself an extremely successful film! I would have voted for Talaash over every other Aamir film. Would have had to think more about a Lagaan-Talash matchup but might still have gone with the latter as a personal favorite. QSQT-Talaash would have given me real trouble but here in an even more personal sense I would have gone for QSQT. QSQT over Lagaan too! So I guess I’m saying my top two Aamir films of all time (so far..) are QSQT & Talaash.
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October 15, 2018 at 1:39 PM
Hmm, DDLJ for SRK, QSQT for Aamir. Maine Pyaar Kiya for Salman?
For an angry man fan, seems you’re soft at heart? 🙂
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October 15, 2018 at 2:59 PM
LOL..! I’d probably pick HDDCS for Salman!
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October 15, 2018 at 8:49 PM
If you need to support a BO flop to be an iconoclast then Mela is your candidate! Talaash is not very Aamirish at its core, he probably felt the need to atone for 3i and did it. At the very core Aamir stands for an overtly emotional man who breaks the norms fuelled by his ‘emotions’. RDB does it violently, Dangal uses patriarchy to get it done. Lagaan is also similar but the villagers were forced to take up the challenge on brit terms. The day may come when indians can look beyond their colonial fascination of cricket, then this movie will hardly be the same.
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October 16, 2018 at 6:50 AM
You don’t have to support a flop but you certainly need to do better than support a film that everyone else has also supported and pat yourself on the back then for being an ‘iconoclast’. That’s a contradiction in terms. What next? I’m an iconoclast because I like the Dark Knight?!
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October 16, 2018 at 7:02 AM
What you support hardly matters without the reason (why) you support it. Hopefully the difference is not too subtle for you. Writing essays on ghosts of talaash or how memory loss in ghaijini is about forgetting great masala does not make them good films. Btw,Talaash did more than ok at BO, in case you think supporting it gives you a brownie point.
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October 15, 2018 at 11:15 AM
You’re a tough person to please…
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October 15, 2018 at 11:04 AM
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
3 Idiots
(This I felt was easy compare to choices in Round of 16)
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October 15, 2018 at 11:20 AM
And that might be it for QSQT…
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October 15, 2018 at 12:07 PM
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
Taare Zameen Par
3 Idiots (Only because I care less about Sarfarosh compared to this one; basically, I’m in no hurry to watch either!)
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October 15, 2018 at 12:45 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpjlBorUUAAuHEg.jpg:large
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October 15, 2018 at 12:51 PM
RDB
Lagaan
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar
3 Idiots
I’m not happy with this final four…my ideal final four would’ve been: AAA, PK, Lagaan and Rangeela. Lagaan is the clear fave…don’t see how it can lose from here on.
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October 15, 2018 at 1:17 PM
QSQT
Lagaan
JJWS
3 Idiots
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October 15, 2018 at 2:26 PM
In view of the World Cup I am revisiting 1 film from each tournament. Today it’s the turn of Andaz Apna Apna. Dil Se done and time for something even more serious!
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October 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
the biggest world cup next shd be that of Big B’s films! it would be tough to get any one film at no. 1 there….i feel still it might be Deewar or Zanjeer kind of deal …..
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October 15, 2018 at 3:29 PM
Deewar. Period.
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October 15, 2018 at 11:25 PM
I would also take Deewar over any other movie
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October 16, 2018 at 2:48 AM
Dewaar, Do Bhiga Zameen, Pyaasa .
One more personal fav : Ankhon Dekhi.
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October 15, 2018 at 10:31 PM
Quarter Finals:
QSQT
Lagaan
JJWS
Sarfarosh
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October 15, 2018 at 10:42 PM
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October 15, 2018 at 10:44 PM
i think the above 4 combined WW gross = > all films of SRK+SK+Akki (WW cumulative of all their films and their sum)
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October 15, 2018 at 10:46 PM
that is 4264 cr and if they need they can add 3i and Ghajini’s nos. and Lagaan’s adjusted no. – no one can come even closer to this…
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October 15, 2018 at 10:51 PM
Wait for ToH. Its WW may as well add another 1500 cr to the tally. A small increment ….
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October 16, 2018 at 3:57 AM
Update (2)
Rang De Basanti 15 Vs Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 11
Lagaan 25 Vs Earth 1
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar 17 Vs Taare Zameen Par 9
Sarfarosh 10 Vs 3 Idiots 16
Some pretty decisive victories likely here. RDB Vs QSQT remains the closest match. 10 hours left…
Lagaan has destroyed Earth in a walk over QF.
Pehla Basha for TZP
All Iz Well for 3 Idiots against Sarfarosh
DJ and co are dancing on Raj and Reshmi’s grave…
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October 16, 2018 at 4:12 AM
so what’s the semis line up?
rdb versus 3 idiots
lagaan versus jjws
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October 16, 2018 at 4:16 AM
Not drawn yet, 10 hours of waiting…
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October 16, 2018 at 5:04 AM
“Lagaan has destroyed Earth”
so true even in modern india
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October 16, 2018 at 4:28 AM
One of the saddest endings in Bollywood films…
Dying with laughter…
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October 16, 2018 at 4:31 AM
Work in progress!
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October 16, 2018 at 4:46 AM
It looks like someone badly wants QSQT versus 3 Idiots. So that one of the favourite films win and the other favourite film will be a runner up!
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October 16, 2018 at 4:58 AM
Not at all. My final would have Lagaan as one finalist 100%.
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October 16, 2018 at 5:08 AM
Lagaan in danger!
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October 16, 2018 at 5:40 AM
actual the battle should be for no. 2 – Lagaan is notches above everything else
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October 16, 2018 at 6:56 AM
Lagaan going to steamroll the competition.
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October 16, 2018 at 7:13 AM
I think Lagaan Vs RDB is the big match up left here. Only RDB going by votes may upset Lagaan. Wouldn’t give JJWS a hope. Dangal fans will be unforgiving to 3 Idiots…
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October 16, 2018 at 7:16 AM
I am feeling sick. Applying for sick leave on the final match days!
May recover just in time!
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October 16, 2018 at 8:06 AM
who knows.. with all the RDB fans!
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October 16, 2018 at 7:23 AM
Dangal is in no way in hell a better film than 3 idiots! the latter had a lot going for it. it was a wild joyride right from scene 1 till the time the credits started rolling. such films aren’t made regularly. it was insane the way the entire country went crazy over it, watching it again n again n again on a mass scale. and we were talking of a generation that has a hard time getting through a 3-minute youtube clip.
Sorry to say, but Dangal is no patch on 3 idiots. the former is a sincere film at best which plays out exactly like a predictable sports drama. the birth of a star, the struggles faced, wins, rough patches and wins. add some father-daughter moments in between. it was all admirable to watch, but honestly there was nothing extraordinary about it.
even the rural setup in dangal had a sweet-natured quality to it. this is what you’d get if Hirani started making biopics on wrestlers in Haryana! it didn’t really scratch the surface to go beyond the issues that we knew already on a basic level!
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October 16, 2018 at 9:42 AM
Spot on Tony Montana
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October 16, 2018 at 12:27 PM
I pick Dangal over 3 Idiots…I think Dangal lacked emotional connect like 3 idiots except may be during Naina song..Dangal was very well made..You can find multiple flaws in 3 idiots but the most you get in Dangal is caricaturist coach.
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October 16, 2018 at 12:46 PM
Dangal over 3I is a completely reasonable choice. I could see this choice from either side.
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October 16, 2018 at 1:46 PM
Shelf life is also important…Dangal is still very fresh in mind of many voters..
I think we should have this exercise after 3-4 years and see how voting has changed (Assuming voters haven’t changed).
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October 16, 2018 at 3:05 PM
Dangal is a much more important film. It skirts around the issue of gender inequality in India and almost takes the charge off such an explosive topic by wrapping it up in dollops of humour — but make no mistake, this film was much needed. Even with its heavy emotional charge, its pushing-the-buttons narrative, it’s a very welcome film.
3 Idiots has nothing on Dangal. One is bound to get better mileage out of reading a Chetan Bhagat book in comparison.
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October 16, 2018 at 2:25 PM
Quite a tough one that. Tbh Dangal wouldn’t make my final 8.
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October 16, 2018 at 7:37 AM
Basically those movies are which which started Lead actors’s stardom, type with which they will be associated in future
SRK — DDLJ (Romantic)
Aamir — Lagaan(Offbeat — mass + class movies)
By This logic
Salman — Dabangg
Amitabh — Zanjeer / Deewar
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October 16, 2018 at 7:39 AM
Interesting observation.
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October 16, 2018 at 8:24 AM
For some of us who are very few or it is me only, a film is measured for many things and one of them is growth of a star or stagnation of a star.
Has aamir stagnated at QSQT level that we should not look beyond and is his co star important in this poll??
Is a film to be celebrated only for director’s vision like RDB?
Is a film to be voted just because it reached some level at the Oscars like Lagaan?
Is biggest grosser like Dangal should be the criterion?
Is the most hilarious ones like AAA and 3 Idiots should get the vote?
For SRK also this applies. His growth was witnessed in CDI, Swadesh, Raees, MNIK, Fan. He also tried experimentation but his image as a romantic star came in the way.
Even if a star is good from the beginning, experimentation makes his outing much more interesting.
A very good star actor can stagnate but his films should not stagnate at certain safe levels. Even if the films fail, the experimentation makes the star more interesting. Experimentation does not mean thoughtless selection of films.
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October 16, 2018 at 3:49 PM
I’m glad you raised this. Since we are voting for films, and not just a single common factor (Aamir, in this case), I think your approach makes sense.
Personally speaking, there are films like TZP and Dangal that always get me. I find them very emotional, even on repeat viewings (which is rare for me!) but these films essentially have a momentary impact. You watch the film and you move on with life. The catharsis over and with that any baggage of guilt I might have been carrying for some time.
Since we are voting for films, I’d personally go for a film that provides a more immersive experience — something that gets into my nervous system and refuses to leave until I’ve discussed it, dissected it and read about it voraciously. That is a rare experience and can only come about when a film is truly well made (along with at least a good story). This also happens when the director respects the audience’s intelligence and resists spoon-feeding them. There is great fun in having those did you get that scene/reference/open-ending discussions with friends and fellow enthusiasts. That, I believe, is the true power of cinema.
Judging by that criteria, only Rang De Basanti & Talaash fit the bill.
And for Jay, who’s bemoaning QSQT’s exit — relax, this world cup is just like the IPL. Whichever team (film) wins, it belongs to India (Aamir) anyway!
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October 16, 2018 at 3:54 PM
I’m only having a joke about it, venting peacefully. It’s not giving me sleepless nights! LOL!
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October 16, 2018 at 4:05 PM
Admit it, Jay. You are stuck in a time warp!
All your choices belong to the 90s 🙂
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October 16, 2018 at 4:09 PM
It’s not even true. My semi final votes are both 00’s. QSQT was 80’s!
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October 16, 2018 at 4:12 PM
Not falling for that!
I think your vote for 3 Idiots is a vote against RDB 🙂
Lagaan is from 2000, just one year after the 90s!
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October 16, 2018 at 4:25 PM
I like all 4 semi finalists for different reasons.
JJWS – my wife walked down to Pehla Nasha when we married. It’s also a song that has always calmed my son down from belly till now. The film is more than just a teenage fantasy. There is plenty of father son tension, brother brother tension. It’s got many different tracks.
RDB – terrifically moving film. The best soundtrack left by far. What an ensemble cast! 10 years ago it might get my vote but not today.
Lagaan – it would be quite remarkable to put up any defence to like this!
3 Idiots – I don’t think there is a more entertaining film from the last decade, maybe LRM only pips it.
And Lagaan is 2001. QSQT 88. Close enough to 90’s but not quite!
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October 16, 2018 at 6:12 PM
“my wife walked down to Pehla Nasha when we married.”
So it wasn’t the KKHH title song?
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October 17, 2018 at 1:16 AM
That was back up. Even a backup groom was in place. And I was ready to dance to give her away!
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October 17, 2018 at 6:07 AM
LOL!
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October 16, 2018 at 4:33 PM
RDB is going to the final! My vote won’t change that!
I don’t believe in tactical votes, only influencing others!
I may watch RDB twice more in my life and ponder on many questions, all the technical camera work but I’ll probably watch 3 Idiots 20 more times and have a ball! I prefer the latter for now!
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October 16, 2018 at 4:36 PM
Fair enough! Can’t argue with that…
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October 16, 2018 at 2:14 PM
Voting closed
Quarter final results
Rang De Basanti 15 Vs Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak 11
Lagaan 25 Vs Earth 1
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar 17 Vs Taare Zameen Par 9
Sarfarosh 10 Vs 3 Idiots 16
Semi Final draw – please vote by Thursday 8pm GMT
Rang De Basanti Vs 3 Idiots
Lagaan Vs Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar
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October 16, 2018 at 2:20 PM
QSQT knocked out – an absolute travesty of justice…
Lagaan charges through
3 Idiots, JJWS & RDB in the mix…who will get to the final?
Semi final draw – blame it on Google random number…
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October 16, 2018 at 2:35 PM
agree on QSQT..
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October 16, 2018 at 2:26 PM
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 2:16 PM
My vote for semi finals
3 Idiots
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 2:36 PM
Semis:
3I
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 2:38 PM
RDB
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 3:58 PM
my semi final votes above
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October 16, 2018 at 2:41 PM
Semi Final :
Rang De Basanti
Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar
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October 16, 2018 at 2:48 PM
In Semi final
2 sports movie against each other
2 Friendship based movie against each other
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October 16, 2018 at 3:21 PM
More like teenage fantasy (JJWS) against revisionist fantasy (Lagaan)
And nationalist rhetoric (RDB) pitted against propaganda masquerading as a film (3 Idiots)
That is, if one is fond of needless reductionism.
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October 17, 2018 at 2:40 AM
JJWS – A coming-of-age film loved by teens of early nineties.
Lagaan – Its iconic status is an epitome of Indian obsession with a colonial game.
RDB – Troublesome politics as labelled by advocates of indian democracy.
3I – A bundle of ideological hypocrisy and contradictions in Hirani’s disney land.
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October 16, 2018 at 3:00 PM
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 3:58 PM
My vote:
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October 16, 2018 at 4:07 PM
My vote:
RDB
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 4:12 PM
That is an awesome video of Rang De Basanti!
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October 16, 2018 at 4:30 PM
3 Idiots
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 4:36 PM
Lagaan international trailer
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October 16, 2018 at 4:38 PM
I did watch Andaz Apna Apna yesterday. It’s going to win the Salman World Cup! What a laugh riot. I completely forgot how Juhi gets scared ala Darr early on when Amar is near her by the tree. Little things like this are funny throughout. But have to say isn’t Salman short changed in this film? Feels like Aamir gets more songs, more lines and more everything. Were the delays Salman’s fault?
Anyway this is easily in my top 16 Aamir films. Easily in my top 2 Salman ones 😀
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October 16, 2018 at 4:42 PM
Try to watch Jaane Bhi Do Yaaron. It’s a much better madcap comedy.
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October 17, 2018 at 3:43 AM
Salman’s dumb act was the film’s highlight. found him better than Aamir’s oversmart avatar
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October 17, 2018 at 3:45 AM
Salman’s dumb act is indeed funny here. Just saying it felt like he was short-changed compared to Aamir here…
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October 17, 2018 at 3:58 AM
Both were good. One has to be dumber. And Salman remained so for a long time. And even in bajrangi he was dumb for a few scenes.
Aamir was always the smart guy or oversmart from Rangeela, Dil, DCH, 3 Idiots to Toh from the trailers.
He acted dumb in PK though.
In AAA the dumber got the heiress as a sort of poetic justice.
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October 16, 2018 at 4:46 PM
Lagaan vs JJWS should really be the final. Anyhoo,
RDB
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 4:48 PM
RDB
JJWS
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October 16, 2018 at 5:00 PM
Lagaan leads 9-2
Rang De Basanti leads 8-3
Early on but looks like Rang De Basanti Vs Lagaan final is on the cards here! Let’s see what happens overnight…
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October 16, 2018 at 6:11 PM
not surprised.. I think RDB is his most highly regarded movie with the multiplex audience other than lagaan. If you recall in those days it showed terrific trending.
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October 16, 2018 at 5:23 PM
Based on purely anecdotal evidence, JJWS is Aamir’s most well liked movie. I have seen the odd detractors even for Lagaan/RDB/TZP/DCH/AAA but yet to come across anyone disliking JJWS. It’s been more than 25 years but the film remains as fresh as ever. The cycle race during the climax is unforgettable. Too bad it ran into fricking Lagaan in the Semis 😦
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October 16, 2018 at 8:33 PM
RDB
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 9:12 PM
Semis:
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 10:56 PM
Both RDB and Lagaan have Rehman’s Music. While JJWS has Jatin Lalit as MD and 3 Idiots has Shantanu Moitra as MD.
My favourite song from JJWS
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October 16, 2018 at 11:00 PM
3 Idiots for the sake of Jay who initiated this fun game.
JJWS for that song alone. I know it has little chance.
As Saket said whichever film wins, the winner here will be Aamir.
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October 16, 2018 at 11:23 PM
I am having second thoughts.
RDB
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 11:15 PM
SFs
3 Idiots
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 11:19 PM
No Brainer !
3 Idiots
Lagaan
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October 16, 2018 at 11:46 PM
3 idiots
lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 12:04 AM
SF
—-
3I
Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 12:43 AM
SF
3 Idiots
JJWS
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October 17, 2018 at 1:27 AM
Toughest choice in the tournament between RDB and 3 Idiots.
RDB
Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 2:22 AM
Really tough. In line with my protest against 3I
RDB
Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 3:44 AM
as long as lagaan is in the final, im happy
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October 17, 2018 at 3:51 AM
Semis
RDB
Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 4:01 AM
jayshah: what’s the score in semi finals?
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October 17, 2018 at 4:23 AM
RDB
Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 4:59 AM
Update (2)
Rang De Basanti 15 Vs 3 Idiots 8
Lagaan 20 Vs Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar 3
Lagaan is heading into finals. RDB is pretty much confirmed. I may close voting tonight as these are significant leads here…means final will be over by Friday evening GMT instead of Sunday and I can take time off from World Cup’s…
Latha, Sanjana you can reconsider heartbreak for Dangal and imagine how 3 Idiots fans feel… typically you shake hands with winner not stab them in the back! aamirsaurabh has deserted 3 Idiots when it mattered most! Qalander? What happened dude?
RDB fans are dangerous fans! I’m not going out for walks in the morning with you lot around!
Anyway form is temporary, class is permanent. Lagaan will take the sweetest revenge in the final 😀
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October 17, 2018 at 5:04 AM
Yes, but RDB fans will lose like martyrs (just like the film) and still create a tidal wave of sympathy!
In the end, no film can win against RDB 🙂
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October 17, 2018 at 5:11 AM
Talaash? Anyway I’m not too sad.
My final would have been QSQT Vs Lagaan. That would have been tough. Now it’s very easy…let the trash talking begin!
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October 17, 2018 at 5:47 AM
Talaash vs RDB would have been really tough for me. I might have gone with the former in the end, but wouldn’t mind RDB winning either.
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October 17, 2018 at 6:02 AM
Sharman Joshi and Madhavan will make it to the finals, no matter what.
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October 17, 2018 at 5:39 AM
Sorry- my dislike for Kareena far outweighs all considerations.
I am happy with either Lagaan or RDB winning
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October 17, 2018 at 5:43 AM
Actually good point on Kareena. I dislike her a lot. But her Dhokra, fafra, thepla dialogue floored me enough to cheer for her here! Some rare gujju love for gujju cuisine!
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October 17, 2018 at 5:53 AM
RDB fans are dangerous fans! I’m not going out for walks in the morning with you lot around!
You might want to join us for some masti though, inside a paathshaala…!
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October 17, 2018 at 5:06 AM
SF Picks
3 Idiots (Just to make it a close finale, i am OK with either)
JJWS (Just on the account, that i have so many memories associated with this)
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October 17, 2018 at 6:13 AM
With Aamir, it become difficult from last 16 itself
JJWS — One of my fav movie, very few movies in bollywood tell stories of brothers
Talaash — As someone who lost a member in family, this movie
shows the exact emotion what my mom went through.
I voted for Lagaan, because it is very difficult to perfectly execute a movie this scale, and Lagaan is one such movie. Music, setup, actors(even british eactors were brilliant), screenplay .. everything is perfect
If JJWS would’ve been against RDB, I may have for it.
JJWS/RDB shows the fault which we have in our youth, while 3 idiots shows everything was perfect with Rancho.
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October 17, 2018 at 6:33 AM
This will be a dream final between Lagaan and RDB – both films represent strong anti-colonial sentiments. And this is right before ToH hoping to complete Aamir’s ‘Anti-colonial Superhit Trilogy’ (something MP was designed to do but failed).
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October 17, 2018 at 6:41 AM
And for some context, Imdb has Lagaan at 8.1 (89K) and RDB at 8.2 (96K).
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October 17, 2018 at 6:49 AM
Lagaan Oscar nomination Vs RDB bafta nomination…both have British female actresses lusting for Aamir’s character (Sue & Elizabeth)…both Rahman music…
Epic final ahead… unless some vote changes happen… this is our final Bhuvan Vs DJ.
Given the importance of decisions, very important you vote alphabetically 😀
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October 17, 2018 at 6:55 AM
For finals lets say not allow vote tempering or wavering? 😛
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October 17, 2018 at 8:47 AM
I don’t expect any. You know one film is Lagaan and the other 2 options too. So mind should already be made up! As munna said if unsure, bide your time!
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October 17, 2018 at 6:59 AM
Jay’s Final is going to be like Nehru vs Bose … (with Gandhi watching out for whose back?)
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October 17, 2018 at 6:48 AM
The history of british oppression and the other oppressions are so distant that they look like fairy tales! Many did not participate in any freedom struggle as far as I know and they lived normal lives as we are leading now. Some of my distant relatives did participate but I dont have any details. We are south india based. I felt the freedom struggle mainly happened in north India and the south may also had its own stories. Even emergency did not affect many.
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October 17, 2018 at 6:54 AM
Only time they were worried and affected according to the information I got was during the world wars. Especially second world war.
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October 17, 2018 at 6:58 AM
Many south indians were in Burma during second world war time having businesses and the exodus started when it was attacked by Japan. Ships with refugees were bombed and some escaped alive leaving all their hard earned wealth. They had to restart their lives once again.
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October 17, 2018 at 6:57 AM
Aamir surely feels otherwise. His BO score on this regard is 2-2 at the moment (Lagaan, RDB were hits but Earth, MP were not). Now he has ToH coming up …
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October 17, 2018 at 10:49 AM
Earth was based during partition, not exactly anti-colonial movie.
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October 17, 2018 at 7:04 AM
RDB
Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 10:11 AM
Semifinal:
Rang De Basanti
Lagaan
PS: Felt really really bad and sad leaving JJWS out 😦 what a movie it was/is. It’s ill fate that it was opposite Lagaan which by far is superior to any movies listed in Aamir’s filmography and has such a tight beautifully woven story that you won’t feel bore at any moment. And Aamir had really put his heart out in this movie…
saw 3 idiots more than RDB in theater at that time of their respective releases but now looking back i feel RDB script was close to perfect compare to 3I’s little gimmicky and aamir’s DJ was more likable and real compare to rancho..
ps ps : sad for jjws missing out 😦 😦
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October 17, 2018 at 10:20 AM
This world cup brought out the love for JJWS. Unfortunately it has to face something like Lagaan.
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October 17, 2018 at 10:44 AM
SF should have been
JJWS Vs 3 Idiots
RDB Vs Lagaan
That may have been more competitive…
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October 17, 2018 at 10:58 AM
my semis would include QSQT, Lagaan, Talaash. The fourth film would be a bit harder to choose.
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October 17, 2018 at 10:59 AM
you could have given a free pass to 3i directly into the finals , and one 3 way semi final between Lagaan/rdb/jjws
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October 17, 2018 at 11:12 AM
Voting closed – executive decision…
Rang De Basanti beats 3 Idiots 17-9
Lagaan beats Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar 22-4
Final starts NOW.
LAGAAN VS RANG DE BASANTI
Voting ends Friday 8pm GMT – earlier if either film has a significant lead. Typically maximum # of votes is hovering at 30! So this is it.
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October 17, 2018 at 11:17 AM
Finals vote Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 11:18 AM
My vote: Lagaan.
Sad outcome for the tournament, none of my favorites made it this far.
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October 17, 2018 at 11:49 AM
I’m happy with Lagaan. Better than DDLJ as a World Cup winner 😀
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October 17, 2018 at 11:12 AM
Final:
Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 11:16 AM
My vote
LAGAAN
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October 17, 2018 at 11:25 AM
Lagaan
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October 17, 2018 at 11:30 AM
Lagaan.
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October 17, 2018 at 12:24 PM
Et tu Sanjana?
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October 17, 2018 at 12:42 PM
Well, still there is time. I may have second thoughts. Let me see whether others will vote heavily for RDB.
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October 17, 2018 at 11:30 AM
Final :
Lagaan
Chulhe se roti nikale ke liye, chimte ko apna mooh jalahe padi
Joote ki talli kitni bhi moti ho … ghisat zaroor hai
ap toh vaid ho. Peedha harte ho. Rogi ki naadi parakh karke uka ilaaj karte ho. Ka aapka sastra yehi kehta hai ki achoot ka ilaaj na kiya jaaye? Uka marne diya jaaye
ap log mera saath de ya na de magar Kachra khelega!
Bhuvan beta. Jo aakhen poori tarah se khul gayi hon unmein toh saram bhi nahi aa sakat.
and many more……
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October 17, 2018 at 11:32 AM
learnt good things from this movie which i still remember and try to follow…
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October 17, 2018 at 11:58 AM
FINAL VOTE
Rang De Basanti
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October 17, 2018 at 12:03 PM
Hard to choose but will go with Lagaan . I personally am not so much convinced about the love angle between the British actress and Bhuvan but barring that there is nothing in the movie to fault
RDB is a much more fluid and balanced movie and I bought into the climax though it was troublesome.
Lagaan changed a lot of things in the industry- sync sound, 1 schedule and many more. So for being a trendsetter Lagaan it is
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October 17, 2018 at 12:08 PM
FINAL VOTE :
Rang De Basanti
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October 17, 2018 at 12:18 PM
Final:
La…who am I kidding?
Rang De Basanti
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October 17, 2018 at 12:35 PM
Lagaan 8-3 ahead currently…
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October 17, 2018 at 12:47 PM
RDB max 4 votes.
per har ek vote, sawa Lakh ka hain
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October 17, 2018 at 12:48 PM
Must say that I have quite enjoyed this. It may be the last time I participate in such an IPL-style World Cup.
Looking back, I’ve pretty much outgrown most of Aamir’s earlier efforts like QSQT, JJWS etc. I’m (currently) a fan of cinema as a visual/aural medium, and also innovating story-telling, so most of the films in this particular competition don’t really cut it for me.
But having said that, there’s an innate honestyabout some of Aamir’s films (Taare Zameen Par, for instance) that’s still quite captivating. TZP is one Aamir film I’ve seen more number of times compared to RDB & Talaash, combined. And it still gets me. Every single time. It’s not a particularly well made film. I can see the staging for what it is – a device to milk the maximum amount of empathy out of its audience, but because it’s an honest film, it still makes me shed a tear or two.
I think that’s the best compliment I can give to Aamir – he’s at least very honest and sincere about what he does, even if the final product isn’t the most cutting edge, in terms of technology or cinematic achievement. He’s the only mainstream star whose films I end up watching on a regular basis – and it has everything to do with the trust that I place in his choice of scripts.
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October 17, 2018 at 1:03 PM
Yes, it has been enjoyable. But take a break from such cups Jay, else this will become monotonous.
DDLJ for Srk, Lagaan for Aamir. The winners have turned out so predictable and commonplace that its kinda lost its worth. Would have been interesting to do this more often if we had Swades and Rdb as winners …
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October 17, 2018 at 1:09 PM
I don’t agree at all. There have been lots of surprises along the way. As for certain films winning and so on that’s true for sports as well. Most of the time things are very predictable, despite surprises at different points. My favorite Talaash got eliminated much earlier than I would have liked, QSQT also didn’t make the final. But it was still lots of fun.
Finally it’s an insult to put Lagaan with DDLJ. The former is a far superior film in every sense imaginable. Just because it’s also popular doesn’t change this.
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October 17, 2018 at 1:14 PM
Sometimes journey is more enjoyable than destination!
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October 17, 2018 at 1:15 PM
Absolutely… well said.. I would even say this is always true!
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October 18, 2018 at 1:06 AM
Well said about the journey part Munna.
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October 17, 2018 at 1:55 PM
Yes, definitely true. Lagaan resides in a different universe compared to DDLJ.
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October 17, 2018 at 1:30 PM
I will pause and reflect. The way I see it, 1500 comments that may never have come at all. At a personal level I’d not have watched Dil Se or AAA again so for me I’ve had fun. Rest of you, who gives a crap LOL! Joking…but you either play or you don’t. Simple as!
And RDB & Swades got to the final dude! Surely you’d pick a non finalist to make your point.
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October 17, 2018 at 1:12 PM
I still get lump in throat when I hear Maa in TZP..In Dangal with Naina..Probably it has to do with how you relate with song..
Recently I saw Hachi: A Dog’s Tale and cried a bucket.
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October 17, 2018 at 12:58 PM
RANG DE BASANTI
Period.
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October 17, 2018 at 1:34 PM
Certainly enjoyed the journey. Final result is only a formality.
Jay is superb with his commentary. Without that, the world cup would have been banal and dull.
My regret is absence of Dangal in the finals. Lagaan is a second choice. I knew Talaash has no chance.
There are too many good films to choose from. That posed a big problem while choosing one against the other.
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October 17, 2018 at 1:35 PM
Sanjana you may have the pivotal vote here. A 2 vote swing for changing your mind 😀
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October 17, 2018 at 1:39 PM
There is still time. I want to see whether RDB can win without my help!
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October 17, 2018 at 1:43 PM
It’s your prerogative and intentions
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October 17, 2018 at 1:43 PM
It is of no use if Lagaan is too far ahead! Whether one is winner or runner does not make much difference as there is no cash prize or crown to be won! It is only a matter of perception. We move on.
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October 17, 2018 at 1:39 PM
I loved RDB. A pretty anazing film that I saw over 5 times in theater..
But Lagaan is a cinematic experience that remains unparalleled for me. Never have I ever been so bowled over bu the sheer power of cinema. This is a triumph like no other, and my favourite Hindi film of all time, for I have never been so overwhelmed by any other film..
My final vote: Lagaan, any time anyday
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October 17, 2018 at 3:07 PM
Final Vote:
Lagaan. This is an appropriate winner. This film helped changed Aamir’s career path and put him into a different stratosphere later on. Aamir jumped into an iconic status with the likes of RK, Dilip and Bachchan with this film.
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October 17, 2018 at 3:11 PM
Re Bhayya JEETAY Lagaan !
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October 17, 2018 at 3:28 PM
I’ve gently warmed towards Lagaan through the tournament. QSQT would have provided me a decision to ponder on but Lagaan is such a game changer. To reduce this to something like a fantasy or sports film is unfair. Don’t forget a fantastic soundtrack and just a stupendous script. The cricket match had anything and everything possible in it! It’s a clinic in filmmaking to integrate the cricket match into the story and for sure Aamir’s greatest moment. Everyone involved brought their A game.
For a 3hr45min film that is predominantly very Bollywood to appease the Oscar jury was a huge feat IMO. From the onset my brain was with Lagaan and my heart with QSQT. These 2 will remain my favourite Aamir films for sure. Everything else is par or birdie, these 2 are hole in one’s.
It ticks all the boxes as cinema goes! I watched it full house and every ball or run was cheered on the third day. It was thunderous applause throughout. Even the British were abused by the British!
All of this post Mela!
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October 17, 2018 at 3:35 PM
Lagaan for me still is the greatest cinema going experience….I remember a TV crew interviewed me at the interval and I gave a glowing review for the first half! and the cricket match! nothing else can be said about it…and to think that Aamir never made cricket part of his promotion…some people guessed that the movie would have cricket but no one had any idea that the cricket match would be almost 1/3 of the movie.
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October 17, 2018 at 4:56 PM
It is a classic underdog story. They could have easily replaced cricket with Gilli-Danda and it would have still worked. Would not have resonated as much but you get the idea.
The same underdog theme is there in JJWS as well. It’s a classic trope and has worked in movies across industries (Rocky, in Hollywood, for example).
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October 18, 2018 at 1:32 AM
Lagaan when it released was unlike I anything I had ever seen. with it I realized the immense power cinema has on anyone’s senses.
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October 18, 2018 at 2:13 AM
It’s there underneath Saket’s underdog comments
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October 17, 2018 at 3:30 PM
I noticed that for both SRK and Aamir, Jay’s poster gave away the winner 🙂 so for Bachchan, how about you put the still from Ram Gopar Verma ki Aag!
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October 17, 2018 at 3:32 PM
SRK poster was changed post win! Original poster was CDI! So maybe I was trying to predict a winner!
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October 17, 2018 at 3:37 PM
Got it…you can still use the Aag poster for Bachchan though Satyam may block you forever 🙂
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October 17, 2018 at 3:38 PM
Ha that’s incentive enough!
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October 17, 2018 at 4:39 PM
I think we’ve had enough of male stars, for now. Let’s bring on a Madhuri carnival.
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October 17, 2018 at 4:30 PM
I make it 10-4 to Lagaan as it’s not clear if thecooldude has voted.
Theoretically it’s only 9-4 as Sanjana might change or 9-5 if she picks RDB.
Officially 10-4 to Lagaan.
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October 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM
Repeating my convoluted logic for everyone’s convenience:
If RDB wins, it wins!
If it loses, it gets martyred, in which case, going by the theme of the film, it still wins!
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October 17, 2018 at 4:55 PM
Lagaan is just a perfect movie…Lekin koi movie perfect nahi hoti…usey banana padta hai
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October 17, 2018 at 5:00 PM
I was just kidding. Don’t mind at all if Lagaan wins…
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October 17, 2018 at 5:03 PM
I was just bringing some RDB dialogue into my post….credit goes to Madhavan
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October 17, 2018 at 5:13 PM
RDB doesn’t have the most memorable lines though. Bollywood lost this art once Salim-Javed ended their collaboration. The last film, which had memorable dialogues was…Dabangg.
Thappad Sey Dar Nahin Lagta Saab…Pyaar Sey Lagta Hai
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October 17, 2018 at 5:20 PM
What? Not Race 3 with Daisy Shah uttering that memorable Our Business is our business none of your business? Shocking
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October 17, 2018 at 5:41 PM
LOL, yeah. That has literally inspired thousands of memes!
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October 17, 2018 at 4:52 PM
Lagaan it is…..
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October 17, 2018 at 5:16 PM
Lagaan off course! Twas the only movie I was certain of selecting if it progressed to the Big Dance.
BOI may think of us as dimwits for selecting a movie that was just a BO hit, and not one of his ATBBs from 2008 onwards.
But it was this very movie which won him boatloads of fans and a subsequent 2 decade superstardom.
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October 17, 2018 at 5:24 PM
I started liking Aamir since Rangeela. Lagaan was just the icing on the cake.
Anyone who had followed Aamir in the 90s knew he was charting his own course. His films, barring the ones with Darshan & Indra Kumar, were way better than the competition.
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October 18, 2018 at 2:48 AM
His 90s career was a bit of a head-scratcher for me. Gems like QSQT, JJWS, Sarfarosh mixed with some avg love stories and some horrible crap. He was finding his way through the maze back then, and perhaps needed that mixed bag to arrive at the unique perspective which gave him the launching pad from Lagaan onwards.
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October 18, 2018 at 2:50 AM
Agreed on all counts, my take is the same on his nineties stuff.
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October 17, 2018 at 5:58 PM
the thing about the box office that BOI don’t quite understand (or pretend not to, the same goes for many fans) is that two seemingly contradictory propositions are at once true:
1)Cinema is the most commercial art-entertainment form imaginable. the box office is the bottom-line for everything.
2)Cinema is never just about the box office.
Let’s take the Aamir example again. Let’s assume a career where Mela is a big one and where he can somehow keep getting big ones doing films with the likes of Indra Kumar and Dharmesh Darshan. In this case he would be a very different sort of star. He wouldn’t really become the star he has been since Lagaan and DCH and so on. Much as the star who did Lagaan was in a much better place to reinvent himself than the star who did the even bigger (box office) Gadar.
The box office is always essential but it doesn’t follow that the ‘greatest’ box office success possible is always better than a somewhat lesser one. Now of course there is always the Salman kind of star who might do utter junk and keep putting up big numbers. One can hardly argue against this. But this sort of paradigm is defeated very easily in a historic sense. Because the films that matter are the better ones. Even as classics the better films matter (DDLJ, not KKHH, despite this 20 year anniversary stunt Johar has pulled!). Of course you can have the phenomenon who’s the greatest box office force and also considered a great actor and therefore does a mix of both. But this is a very rare occurrence.
But finally — and this is the most important point — cinema is defined, specially over the long term, at least as much by ‘prestige’ films that were often initial box office (and even critical) failures, as it is by ‘hits’. In fact the pendulum swings even more in the direction of the former over time. This isn’t just about ‘history’. Because in any ‘present’ of any film industry there are always enough people willing to take risks to make the kinds of movies they want to. It’s obviously always a struggle when the box office results are not there but there are people up for this task. In any case this isn’t an idea construct but a pragmatic one. This ‘is’ the history of cinema. The box office as the ultimate bottom-line but then also all the filmmakers for whom there are other goals greater than this reality. Many of them got destroyed in the process. It’s a brutal business. It’s not an easy choice to make in one’s lifetime but historical assessments are a different matter. We remember Kaagaz ke Phool. I doubt anyone most people could name (without googling it) the top hits of the 50s!
And so back to these World Cups. Between SRK and Aamir we see by and large better stuff making it to the top relative to the arc of each actor’s career. This doesn’t mean a much loved classic cannot win but this doesn’t argue against anything. Cinema is also the history of its much loved perennial classics that are not necessarily its greatest films.
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October 17, 2018 at 7:57 PM
Final: Lagaan
I love both RDB and Lagaan so personally would have been happy with either outcome. That said, I went with Lagaan because I think Aamir is more pivotal to Lagaan’s success than Rang De Basanti’s.
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October 17, 2018 at 8:46 PM
Lagaan. Final.
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October 17, 2018 at 10:52 PM
I have concern with RDB in the finals with Lagaan.
In no way can RDB beat other better movies of Aamir in contentions earlier if the folks had seen the movies in theatre. I have seen all in theatres.
I find most of us here watch movies on TV or laptops. There are certain cinemas which are neutral and can be equally enjoyed in any format. But there are those few gems which you have to watch it on big screen to see the magic. And here the movies like Dangal and 3 Idiots will probably score over and above RDB, which is an above average movie but not brilliant to come to top 2.
Lagaan is the movie between the two for me.
Suggestion –
Next time please separate the votes in the categories –
Watched in cinemas – full 1 point;
watched elsewhere – 0.5 vote only
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October 17, 2018 at 10:59 PM
Rang De Basanti.
I wasn’t a huge Aamir admirer till I saw this film. I never saw Lagaan in Theatre.
It was after RDB, I saw Lagaan and DCH. I was blown away by the work.
But the tipping point was and shall remain RDB. A fun frolic movie as per trailers, and then the movie takes you for a Rollercoaster of emotions and angst.
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October 17, 2018 at 11:05 PM
Lagaan
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October 18, 2018 at 1:18 AM
Lagaan leads 15-5…
It’s fair to say Rang De Basanti has been the film of the tournament. It’s faced Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar, PK, Ghulam, Dil Chahta Hai, Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak, 3 Idiots and now Lagaan. It’s knocked out all those films except JJWS and now faces the colossal Lagaan. That Knockouts route is quite remarkable, DCH/QSQT/3 Idiots! It must be absolutely shattered here!
Lagaan faced Akele Hum Akele Tum, Dhobi Ghat, Dil, Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin, Earth & Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikandar – on paper an easier route. Well rested, primed for the final. Unlike the film it’s making the final look a bit more straightforward at this stage.
We still have some time for things to change…
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October 18, 2018 at 1:31 AM
how about the route handed over to 3i by jayshah, plus all the controversies against Dangal?
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October 18, 2018 at 2:20 AM
My wishlist
Bachchan
Salman
Akshay
Ajay Devgn
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October 18, 2018 at 2:24 AM
When Lagaan released and once I finished seeing it, I remember being severely pissed by people who told me that Gadar was a much better film and Lagaan was not a patch on it. I didn’t even know where to begin. these were the people who were easily swayed by crap jingoistic cinema.
and then there were idiots who told me that “I haven’t seen Lagaan properly, i just skipped to the end when the match began.” How do you argue with people like these?
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October 18, 2018 at 2:26 AM
and that’s why I say: Lagaan was just not about the cricket match! First and foremost, it revolutionized Hindi cinema and changed the very nature of storytelling, while at the same time reinforcing its importance
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October 18, 2018 at 2:38 AM
In my personal experience, the Gadar-Lagaan bias fell mostly on North-South lines. Most of my Northern friends loved Gadar, whereas most Southerners loved Lagaan (mainly bcoz they just cud not relate to the emotional undercurrent of Gadar).
I have seen neither on the big screen, as I was posted in the boondocks for some projects back in 2001. Saw both on video, on horrible prints, and was blown away by both. Just two totally different raw emotions had been yanked out from deep within by these two movies.
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October 18, 2018 at 2:40 AM
Wud add that if Jay ever decided to do a Sunny Deol tournament, Gadar may have a good shot at winning it all. Even though most of his work is from the 80s-90s, full of OTT shouting and action, and some ridiculous left-foot dance attempts!
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October 18, 2018 at 2:33 AM
Final:
Lagaan
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October 18, 2018 at 2:51 AM
RDB
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October 18, 2018 at 3:13 AM
Final Vote:
Lagaan
Watched it in a single screen cinema in Mumbai, have not witnessed the audience reaction like in Lagaan ever for a movie before or after. The audience cheering every wicket taken and every run scored by Bhuvan’s team.
We all knew Bhuvan was going to hit the six on the last ball, right through facing that ball, his whole life flashing in front of him was so brilliant. He hits it, the british fielder catches it and we are like wtf only to realize he has crossed the boundary line and then the Hum Jeet Gaye line. The whole theatre went wild.
Though i like RDB, my vote goes to Lagaan.
This from one of the reviews of the film by Pritish Nandy.
“What makes a great movie? A great story? A powerful script? Brilliant performances? Imaginative direction? Remarkable cinematography? What about music? In India, music and choreography are also critical since we love watching song sequences. Drama? Emotions? Thrills? Production values? Heart-stopping, power-packed scenes? What happens when you have them all in one movie? Is it possible for anyone to make such a movie?
If you had asked me this question last week, I would have said: Possible, yes, but unlikely.”
“Today, that distinction has vanished, thank God! What you have now is not commercial cinema versus art cinema. It is good cinema versus bad cinema. And that is how it should be.”
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October 18, 2018 at 3:46 AM
Lagaan doesn’t have a great story. Powerful script? yes.
Brilliant performances? Hardly. Imaginative Direction? Nope.
Music? Good, but not great.
Drama/Emotions/Thrills? Yes, the stakes against the bully were built up nicely.
Production Values? For its time, yes.
Heart-stopping, power-packed scenes? Maybe…
The hyperbole of that age isn’t really justified today…!
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October 18, 2018 at 3:52 AM
If there is any film I could watch in India in the cinema it would be Lagaan (of those that I watched in cinema). No doubt about it.
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October 18, 2018 at 3:56 AM
Yes, that is true. It’s quite an experience in the theaters. Hardly anyone can deny that.
On a personal level though, things can be quite different.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:18 AM
Having said that, even though the film followed a classic underdog template, the attempt to fit a cricket match into the mix was quite audacious for its time.
There were hardly any good commercial films, in Hindi, that had sports as a backdrop (Hip Hip Hurray is the only one I can recall; not a commercial, mainstream film) and the ones that came out like Awwal Number were so bad that filmmakers would have thought ten times before even attempting one. So in that respect, Lagaan did break new ground.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:26 AM
If you debate with yourself long enough you might change your mind! 😀
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October 18, 2018 at 4:33 AM
I had tough time giving my choice. I probably have more connect with RDB but Lagaan canvas, execution, cricket match in 1893 just hit the ball out of ground.
Everything working in a movie was like winning this:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/mega-millions-powerball-lotteries-now-1-billion-combined-165814961–abc-news-topstories.html
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October 18, 2018 at 4:39 AM
No chance! 🙂
It’s possible for me to acknowledge Lagaan’s strengths while I’m completely bowled over by the personal intimacy of a film like RDB.
I’m actually surprised Rakeysh Mehra has made commercial hits in Bollywood. He makes very personal, deeply resonant films that tend to have a very unique voice. I’d never trade that for a commercial potboiler, no matter how well the latter’s been made.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:46 AM
Anyway get set for martyrdom! There are 6 of you, I suppose it’s fitting given 6 went a away in RDB (5 at the end + Madhavan) and Bhuvan battered that 6!
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October 18, 2018 at 4:30 AM
And match was almost half of the movie. Most Hollywood movies are that long.
I saw it in Southern California area. We didn’t get ticket first day, next day we went early. I didn’t see the movie again till recently.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:40 AM
This is one potential criticism of the film. It’s a bit of once in a lifetime watch. The impact on repeat watch isn’t the same – at least for me. And maybe RDB will stay the distance for 50 years, But I am no astrologer…and I will be lucky to see that day!
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October 18, 2018 at 4:52 AM
I think it is difficult to please everyone. And Aamir wanted midway. He is more inclined towards commercial cinema as that will be watched by many. And not potboiler type but sensible story telling. Just because a film is liked by many it will not be fair to call it commercial potboiler. That I will associate with Sajid Khan, Rohit Shetty and their ilk.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:58 AM
Commercial potboiler isn’t a pejorative term. There are many great films, across the globe, which can be identified as such.
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October 18, 2018 at 5:03 AM
Lagaan is not exactly a commercial potboiler. Gadar easily overtook it. And for that matter even RDB had all the commercial elements like rousing music, herogiri, dramatic martyrdom, male bonding etc.
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October 18, 2018 at 6:29 AM
RDB has commercial elements but it’s not structured like a commercial film. Far from it. Even the music, the song picturizations are unique, more inward-looking, to be precise.
Don’t want to sound snobbish at all, but RDB is the work of an auteur, which may not mean much (or anything at all) to everyone, but it does mean quite a lot to me.
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October 18, 2018 at 12:55 PM
IMO Songs in RDB were best utilized/integrated in movie…
I was very disappointed with Mehra with D6 which again had very fine tracks..
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October 18, 2018 at 12:59 PM
Someone did a paper on RDB!
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October 18, 2018 at 5:22 AM
It is villagers’ earthy smartness versus cityfolks’ flashy smartness.
RDB dazzled multiplex viewers.
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October 18, 2018 at 3:15 AM
Lagaan!
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October 18, 2018 at 4:57 AM
What is the score as of now?
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October 18, 2018 at 5:01 AM
18-6…
Am I getting ready for Sanjana to change her mind?
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October 18, 2018 at 5:06 AM
No. No means No! Bhuvan bura maanjayega. Cant disappoint him. The other one thrives on martyrdom and so he will not mind!
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October 18, 2018 at 4:57 AM
Time to throw a spanner in the works. Call it a last ditch effort, if you please.
Lagaan isn’t a unique film by any means. It has many plot similarities with Dilip Kumar’s Naya Daur, itself a ground-breaking film.
People who have seen the latter will know what I’m talking about.
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October 18, 2018 at 5:08 AM
Can throw as many spanners as you want. I think you are on Titanic now trying to save the ship, save the lives.
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October 18, 2018 at 5:10 AM
I haven’t seen that film, not the first time I heard this. But I guess RDB lends itself to history in a more obvious way anyway…if one is being pedantic 😀
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October 18, 2018 at 6:01 AM
Chopra’s man vs machine…
Uddhe jab jab zulfe teri ………….
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October 18, 2018 at 6:04 AM
Some movies are beyond awards.
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October 18, 2018 at 6:31 AM
Yes, absolutely true!
In fact I’m really surprised RDB has such vocal fans. Really happy to see that!
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October 18, 2018 at 6:37 AM
Polls ki yehi beaut hain.. sab kacha chitha bahar aa jaata hain…
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October 18, 2018 at 7:01 AM
Rdb brought back aamir from oblivion with a bo hit after 5 yrs since lagaan. Rdb and kiran both played their parts in the resurrection.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:23 AM
Found colorized version of naya daur
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October 18, 2018 at 5:13 AM
The original thing is Mahabharat where dice was used to get kingdoms and lose kingdoms. Pandavas were like Lagaan folks and the british were Kauravas. So Naya Daur was not a big deal.
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October 18, 2018 at 6:43 AM
We, who voted for Lagaan did not try to bring down RDB in any way. We are in awe of that film. But why RDB fans are trying to bring down Lagaan? Even in jest, it makes a sad statement. Lagaan has its points and some took the trouble of explaining it. Articulation could not have worked for a simple story like Lagaan. For the same reason Dangal is also liked. A direct story telling without resorting to any articulation and flourishes. These may not be auteur’s cup of tea. I enjoy both kinds of films. Lagaan, Dangal as well as RDB and Talaash. And respect all of them equally.
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October 18, 2018 at 6:46 AM
Dont be sore losers! Have some sportsmanship!
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October 18, 2018 at 6:57 AM
I’ve not tried to bring down Lagaan at all. Just offered a counterpoint to the claims calling it an epochal event in Hindi cinema. That is certainly not true.
Even the Oscar nomination wasn’t a first. I don’t mind people voting for Lagaan but please don’t make it look like Hindi cinema was in the dark ages before this film burst on scene.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:04 AM
Lagaan was s career turning point for aamir, not for cinema.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:06 AM
Absolutely. It did redefine our expectations from commercial cinema, but let’s be honest, it didn’t have a long-lasting effect.
One needs to just look around and see what we get these days in the name of entertainment.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:12 AM
Technically itself rdb is superior, even if one does not support the politics. But i cant sit thru ddlj and it beat swades by a mile! Jay’s finals are traditional flop shows …
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October 18, 2018 at 7:13 AM
And its only aamir film to play with a nonlinear narrative, isnt it?
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October 18, 2018 at 7:18 AM
If someone calls it epochal event then that does not reflect general consensus. And everyone knows that it is only third Oscar nomination and why only first one should be applauded? Every Oscar nomination will be celebrated. What is wrong with being the third or fourth one?
Who said that hindi cinema was in dark ages before Lagaan? Some only said that the experience was phenomenal because they did not watch anything like it before because they might not have been born or they might have been too small. Or they might not have been touched by some other film.
Recent memory also plays a part in these assumptions.
Most of the folks watch cinema for entertainment and they dont analyse deeply to make a perfect analysis. They have got a different take.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:54 AM
DCH is more epochal in a sense and changed cinema.
I haven’ said word on Lagaan coz I don’t believe in degrading one thing 2 show another in good light
RDB stands on its own and it does MAJESTICALLY.
I don’t get awards and nominations making movie great.
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October 18, 2018 at 12:37 PM
I disagree..I think double strike of Lagaan, DCH showed that people can have realistic (in terms of dialogue and presentation) within confines of commercial cinema..RGV was making such movies but his scale was small and cast not A-Listers. 90s was atrocious for most part it didn’t add anything to cinema except going to foreign locations for shoot.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:37 AM
I change my vote to Rang De Basanti
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October 18, 2018 at 7:55 AM
अब पछताये होत क्या जब चिड़ियाँ चुग गई खेत 🙂
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October 18, 2018 at 7:56 AM
Translate please…
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October 18, 2018 at 7:58 AM
Quora zindabad
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-meaning-of-the-Hindi-phrase-Chidiya-Chug-Gayi-Khet
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October 18, 2018 at 8:23 AM
Not working my end….is it something like crying over spilt milk? Me?
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October 18, 2018 at 10:27 AM
Presenting the Naya Daur example to undermine the importance of Lagaan in cinema for changing viewpoints is giving oneself too much importance. I do not wished to bring much of comparison, as I have a weakness for both films. but ill just add my two cents for both films because some people have done the same.
Lagaan is a classic definition of the the celebration of goodness over evil or wrongdoing, and it is suitably showy as Sholay, Mother India and Mughal E Azam. The result is overbearing and resulting in the quintessential Hindi film. It reinforces why we love cinema and go to the movies in the first place. Aamir has since dabbled in various genres and succeeded greatly, but he hasn’t been able to evoke the same magic like he did with Lagaan. never has audience been INVOLVED in a film ever since! Is it the sheer power of its storytelling and the subsequent build-ups. Is it the colourful and wild characterization that went into it? Is it Anil Mehta’s cinematography? Rahman’s music? Or the resources coming together and giving their absolute best, in a film that was, on paper, impossible to conceive? (For those who haven’t checked the making on Netflix, they’re missing out on a great documentary). Lagaan was an event. A film that reached dizzying heights of greatness despite goof-ups in the filmmaking process.
Coming to RDB, I enjoyed the major part of it. Yes, u=including the climax. But I won’t deny that the politics has been problematic and acted as a catalyst to a social media generation that watches, disses, criticizes the system but then what does it do: splurge away resources impulsively! And when it decides it is time to take action, that is not out of love for the country, but as an act of revenge that has clouded logic and sense. And the film portrays them as modern-day versions of the great revolutionaries in an India that has quickly forgotten their sacrifice (if you’d call it so). even the aftermath is shown in a quick, wrapping-up way. show a few sad faces, protests at Jantar Mantar/India Gate and no explanation on the actual effect of this “act of violence”. Doesn’t that sum up the attitude of today’s generation on social media? Write some pseudo-intellectual rant, show your liberal support on some chain of events, and move on to the next thing without giving actual care about anything!
RDB was the face of this social media generation and, in a way, celebrates it as rebellious! It is wild and well made and all that, but it is rather misguided and shallow in its approach.
Lagaan might be inspired from Naya Daur, but does a rather good job at it, the end result being several notches higher than that film. Just like Mother India was a refined version of Aurat. Its greatness cannot be defined other than being experienced. Also, can the RDB fans also provide a link to the quaint film from which RDB was inspired, besides taking obvious buddy-film inspirations from DCH?
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October 18, 2018 at 12:06 PM
This is a well thought out response, tonymontana. Really enjoyed reading it but I will have to disagree with some of your claims. You say that never has audience been INVOLVED in a film ever since!
That’s a tall claim to make because Gadar made more than twice the money that Lagaan did, and for all practical purposes, I think the audience was probably more involved when Sunny Deol pulled out that infamous hand-pump from the ground. That’s audience participation for you, and frankly, at a personal level, which is what a cinematic experience is all about, these anecdotal stories don’t count for much. Any generation of movie watchers will have some such story to share. Personal involvement is a highly subjective thing and can’t be held as the criteria to anoint any film as great.
Lagaan was an event. A film that reached dizzying heights of greatness despite goof-ups in the filmmaking process.
This is another assertion. What do you mean by dizzying heights of greatness? Does the film alter any prevalent discourse on cinema? Does it have a great message that moves the audience beyond the obvious dose of entertainment that it provides? Does it offer an example of deep thinking by the filmmaker? Forget the style of delivery of the message because there isn’t one to begin with!
Regarding RDB, the film actually delivers a message. It’s not the most clearly worded message, I agree, but it’s there nonetheless. It isn’t overly preachy, certainly not heavy-handed and rather ambiguous in nature. From what I can gather, the film argues that it takes a certain kind of madness to initiate a revolution. One has to be a bit crazy to resort to violence, which it implies is what the freedom fighters indulged in as well (they too did it because they were personally affected. Remember Jalian Wala Bagh?) but the fim argues, that’s not the only solution. In a clearly worded section, it asks the viewers to take a more refined route – become IAS officers, enter politics, do whatever you can to help clean up the system. Because, we, as a whole have created this system. The film asks the hypothetical question as to what Bhagat Singh, Chandrashekhar Azad, Sukhdev, Rajguru and Ram Prasad Bismil would do in this modern era when the enemy is not an external entity but an entire nation’s apathy.
Even if this isn’t the message that people get out of the movie, there is still something to chew upon and reflect. This isn’t an empty movie that was made for the sole purpose of minting money. It stimulates the audience’s thought process and does it in a refined, subversive way. The filmmaker’s choices, his method of delivery, accentuate his ideas without being overbearing or distracting for that matter. That, I believe, is where a film starts to aspire towards greatness.
For a film to be truly great, it has to pass the test of time. It has to be universal enough to invoke the same passion, the same feelings for the coming generations. It has to be skillfully made to not lose its appeal over time, to appeal to different cultures and social mores prevalent in a different era and yet not lose its own identity. Now think about Pyaasa, think about Kaagaz Ke Phool. These are timeless classics. And based on their enhanced reputation over time, I’ve been keen to proclaim similar longevity for RDB (and also Talaash, which is more of a genre film but spectacularly made, and offers a great social commentary).
Finally, to repeat myself, what we call “great” art is something that in addition to being beautiful, also has a message, a statement, a communication with the audience (a universality across time & cultures) and a reason for being. It is a fulfilling, enriching experience that enters one’s nervous system and refuses to leave. At the very least, it evokes a response that goes beyond yes, I was thoroughly entertained!
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October 18, 2018 at 12:31 PM
Satyam ki aatma ghus gayi hai dono mei 🙂
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October 18, 2018 at 1:27 PM
Thanks for taking time to read it all and your discourse, Saket. I’d like to reply with random thoughts but I’ll on the points one by one.
Of course Gadar made more money, and so did many other films that time. Even K3G did later that year. And Im sure some of Salman’s fans will agree that Bodyguard was a great experience because some bhai fans danced every time he appeared on screen. Cheap thrills maybe? But whether we agree or not, that’s the state of cinema today. Audience participation is maximum when the hero flexes his muscles and beats up the baddies or mouthes a cheesy line. That’s Indian massy entertainment. But how many times have we recalled cheering for a group of puny sized villagers in a quaint village overburdened by taxes and oppressed by a ruling authority? Audience participation becomes all the more challenging when the film demands seriousness instead of timepass affair. I’ve recalled Chak De India and 3 idiots getting applause regularly along with RDB. But nothing as thunderous as Lagaan, and I’m not certainly counting for cheap entertainment..otherwise Mithun releases in shady B town theatres can be taken into consideration as well
It’s one way for Lagaan to be looked upon as nothing beyond entertainment. One way to look at it is a guide on situational leadership, disaster management and also a motivational case study (it got into IIMs syllabus the year after it released), maybe a triumph of the will and a lesson in screenplay and character development (from a filmmaking point of view). Also an example of a modern-day western with its period backdrop, Captain Russell being the town bully and our hero the rebel who takes on the villain. Its themes can well be the subject of a major cinematic discourse and Hollywood’s fascination with it itself can be a point of great debate. I feel that much to its discredit, it hasn’t inspired great discussion on this forum and elsewhere, which it so greatly deserves when compared to masala works like Sholay (it has books depicting the making, production, development and so on) that are just empty, to put it mildly.
On RDB, I don’t have much else to add, but the message you talk about comes at the cost of diluting the morality of the film. It just gets a little “strange” towards the end. and what is the ultimate message in question: love thy country? or sacrifice? paint me saffron? Quite convenient. RDB for all its merits gets too haphazard by the end, ( i didn’t mind it, though). I’d call Lagaan a less flawed and more complete work.
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October 18, 2018 at 1:36 PM
I attempted to make sense out of ending or politics.
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October 18, 2018 at 2:14 PM
have enjoyed your exchange with Saket on Lagaan/RDB. I can’t really get into a long comment at the moment except to say that I’d easily pick Lagaan over RDB as a complete achievement. It’s not even close to my mind. I also think it’s been underestimated in some ways (odd as this might sound). I certainly disagree with Saket in terms of its soundtrack or its cinematography and so on. It’s a very poetic, fable-like film which gets everything right, specially given the improbable nature of the subject. RDB meanwhile is a messy narrative as far as I’m concerned as well as politically muddled. But yes Mehra brings enormous strengths to the table here as a formal matter, visually and otherwise (it might be one of the best examples of a soundtrack narratively integrated into a film) and certainly there are a number of strong moments in the film. Having said that I do think you’re describing Lagaan’s response in very subjective terms. I don’t agree that no film has seen this kind of response since. But again, and even as someone who loves QSQT or Talaash, I don’t believe Aamir has ever been associated with a better overall film than Lagaan. And to repeat I am not really judging it by all the usual hype (Oscar et al).
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October 18, 2018 at 3:48 PM
I think the Oscar nomination is quite important and impressive here. The last film before this was what late 80’s and nothing since has threatened. Aside from the rareness of the event, the fact that a 3hr30 min film, with very Bollywoodish roots based on village folk got to the final 5 is pretty impressive. It’s still displays the essence of Bollywood whilst appeasing the western critics.
And Hollywood films are typically half this length with no songs. So for the kind of film it was to get that far it must have ticked many boxes for the jury members.
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October 18, 2018 at 2:42 PM
It’s one way for Lagaan to be looked upon as nothing beyond entertainment. One way to look at it is a guide on situational leadership, disaster management and also a motivational case study (it got into IIMs syllabus the year after it released), maybe a triumph of the will and a lesson in screenplay and character development (from a filmmaking point of view). Also an example of a modern-day western with its period backdrop, Captain Russell being the town bully and our hero the rebel who takes on the villain. Its themes can well be the subject of a major cinematic discourse and Hollywood’s fascination with it itself can be a point of great debate.
I’m afraid a lot of these meaningful readings do stretch one’s credulity a little. At best they are add-ons (disaster management? Situational leadership? As for IIMs, do think a certain Lalu Prasad Yadav also lectured there) to impart some meaning to an entertaining tale. It’s as if Lagaan can’t just be enjoyed for what it is – a thoroughly entertaining yarn. It needs that veneer of respectability by ascribing all sorts of arty-farty labels to it.
On RDB, I don’t have much else to add, but the message you talk about comes at the cost of diluting the morality of the film. It just gets a little “strange” towards the end. and what is the ultimate message in question: love thy country? or sacrifice? paint me saffron? Quite convenient. RDB for all its merits gets too haphazard by the end, ( i didn’t mind it, though). I’d call Lagaan a less flawed and more complete work.
What is the ultimate message in RDB? I can’t say for sure (my reading can’t be the ultimate one!), but I think people can come up with a variety of meanings for the film’s climax. And people usually do. I will agree that Lagaan is a less flawed film but that’s because it’s a less ambitious film…in every possible way! And trust me, I wouldn’t be arguing against Lagaan if it was one.
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October 18, 2018 at 3:02 PM
“I will agree that Lagaan is a less flawed film but that’s because it’s a less ambitious film”
But it doesn’t follow that an ambitious film ‘has to be’ a more flawed film. In other words, a richer film might be more interesting than the competition even with its flaws but this doesn’t make the flaws acceptable as a matter of course. Or differently still RDB to my mind does not constitute the level of achievement where its flaws would be excusable in this sense. There are certain kinds of films that create ‘deadlocks’ if you will, not because the director hasn’t done his job but that the thinking on something has been pushed into a direction where a convincing resolution simply isn’t possible or at least every difficult to conceive. The same happens in other art forms as well. I can think of several great novels that have this problem. The ending of War and Peace for example. Or the Crime and Punishment one that its writer revisited several times before coming up with the current one. But RDB isn’t that kind of film. It’s not really that profound a subject, it’s concerns are not deep enough in the same sense. I’d go further and say Talaash is a much deeper, more interesting film than RDB. Finally, and inasmuch as Lagaan is not a polemical film the way RDB is, I don’t see how this is a burden for its narrative. In much the same way that a great John Ford Western can be a fine film without having to be much more than it is.
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October 18, 2018 at 3:13 PM
A quick example here. For me Deewar or Trishul or Kaala Pathar are phenomenal scripts. Deewar especially has some incredible subtexts to it. On the other hand, and precisely for this reason I consider the final moment of each film a sad cop-out. Understandable in a box office sense but nonetheless a letdown of the script. But RDB is not this level of achievement where one could forgive it so easily. Now how might a richer (on my terms) RDB (again I’m not debating box office potential here) be conceived? A film where precisely the somewhat nihilistic act of assassination leads to all its dark consequences and here the parallel with the freedom movement would be exactly this — that here too there were a number of nihilistic acts that seem meaningful in retrospect or because they were instantly mythologized in the larger contexts of the struggle. One could easily link Bhagat Singh (for example) to such a moment. For his politics (often repressed but which was radically left in some ways) or for his act. The film hints at some of this of course but takes everything back in the last 45 min or so. Again Deewar. The true heart of the critique here involves really the nation-state itself! From the saare jahan se achcha moment in the beginning to the impoverished teacher towards the end, these moments shame the viewer. Yes becoming a gangster is unethical or immoral but consider the lack of both on the part of the State itself! Or take Awara (even more daring than Trishul) where so much that is interrogated from paternity to class and so on but nothing is taken away by the end. It’s a dark ending, the only honest one for the film. Deewar is still sort of ok in this sense but not Trishul (otherwise my favorite film in the world) or Kaala Pathar. RDB I think is a very seductive film at many levels (I myself voted for it at a crucial point in Jay’s poll) but candidly its politics is really much ado about nothing. And even then its muddled.
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October 18, 2018 at 3:59 PM
Finally, and inasmuch as Lagaan is not a polemical film the way RDB is, I don’t see how this is a burden for its narrative. In much the same way that a great John Ford Western can be a fine film without having to be much more than it is.
I’ve made the same argument. Let’s enjoy Lagaan for what it is.
And why should one only enjoy a perfect narrative? Why should one settle for a less flawed film? Why shouldn’t one applaud or invest in greater ambition? Especially if a tale, imbued with a certain amount of ambition, is narrated by a director like Mehra.
But RDB isn’t that kind of film. It’s not really that profound a subject, it’s concerns are not deep enough in the same sense. I’d go further and say Talaash is a much deeper, more interesting film than RDB.
It’s deeper than Lagaan. Its concerns are also higher than Lagaan‘s, which is the film it’s competing against. In this final. Hence the argument on thematic depth.
Even otherwise, I don’t see how a film can be slighted for trying to rise above merely entertaining its audience, which by the way, I have no issues with. That’s perfectly fine, but people don’t flock to see a Guru Dutt classic for its entertainment quotient. Some people always want more from their cinema.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:10 PM
‘Some people always want more from their cinema.’
Hence you have a vote and maybe your conclusion is that we are useless judges of cinema and you’re better!
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October 18, 2018 at 4:16 PM
Huh? Did I say that?
Why should anyone have an issue if I expect more from the films I tend to watch? No, really, why?
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October 18, 2018 at 4:23 PM
No I don’t think you understood me. It was a joke. You haven’t said that I know. Sarcasm dude! Mine is pretty bad…I didn’t mean it like that.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:48 PM
No worries! Phew…thought I had somehow said something too insensitive…which unfortunately, does happen much to my own discomfort.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:42 PM
I’d just repeat a few things here.. I’m making the opposite point, that RDB is not a deeper film than Lagaan! But let’s leave this aside. I do think you’re being too reductive on Lagaan by thinking of it mere entertainment.
On the ambition point I am all for more ambitious films. But then they must be judged by their ambition in both directions. In other words I am of course not saying that DDLJ is a better film than RDB because the former is not flawed for its subject while the latter is. What I am saying is that Lagaan is not DDLJ for that comparison to work. Nor is RDB Pyaasa for it to work in the other sense. I’d agree with the ambition point you’re making even if I prefer the word ‘interesting’. A lot of very interesting films are not really ‘ambitious’ efforts. And being flawed is not an automatic disqualification either. But its a question of ‘how’ a film is flawed. Dil Se passes the test for me (like most of late Ratnam over the past 20 years, Hindi and Tamil), RDB does not. Yes Mehra places the bar higher than is usually the case for major commercial films these days. But he must also be judged by those same standards. Otherwise I’d be happy to pick RDB over dozens of other commercial Hindi films from the same era. I prefer ‘flawed’ RDB to less-flawed Fanaa. But the Lagaan comparison isn’t one I can accept. Because I see Lagaan too as that deeper film which is more sly about its meaning(s) in some ways but a formidable achievement one way or the other. I don’t see it at all as just a superior entertainer. Not objecting to you wanting ‘more’ from your films otherwise.
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October 18, 2018 at 5:10 PM
I’m afraid I don’t quite catch any thematic heft in Lagaan. Don’t find it very interesting, cinematically speaking, either. It’s a warm, fuzzy, sunny film. A big F-You fantasy acted out against our colonial masters. The staging is rather prosaic (by today’s standards, or more controversially, by RDB’s standards; it wasn’t bad for its time). As a narrative, it’s fluid. It certainly gets its humor right. It also is pretty good in setting up the stakes against the big, bad bully. But really, what else is there?
I mean we are comparing Ashutosh Gowarikar against Rakeysh Mehra here. That itself should render much of the Lagaan-is-a-serious-film discourse void.
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October 18, 2018 at 5:18 PM
Click to access Double-Temporality_Lagaan.pdf
you can find other such essays on Lagaan if you google the film, however many are not accessible for non-subscribers. I quote this one because I essentially agree with the ‘double ‘temporality’ point being made here.
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October 18, 2018 at 5:45 PM
If I click on google scholar, there are dozens, literally dozens, of papers on RDB too. There’s a Masters thesis that munna has posted below. More importantly, I can imagine Ashutosh Gowarikar contemplating ‘double temporality’ while writing the script for Lagaan. Not!
I mean, one can posit some of these theories for Mithun Chakraborty’s Gunda too. That is, if one is hell bent on deriving ‘meaning’ to such an extent, one can squeeze the last ounce of fun out of movies.
I’m not implying that this is what these papers are doing, but surely, these academic exercises are not the proof one is looking for?
I mean, look at the following line:
Bollywood’s conventions and traditions enable the film to explore anticolonial resistance and incipient nationalism through the cinematic prism of romance, sentimentality, and repressed sexual desire
Everything for Westerners is about repressed sexual desires! Bhuvan hugging Kachra is latent homo-eroticism as well.
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October 18, 2018 at 5:53 PM
“If I click on google scholar, there are dozens, literally dozens, of papers on RDB too”
Yes but then I’m not arguing that nothing serious can be said on RDB! In fact I’ve said a lot of things about RDB along the same lines myself!
On the rest I’m going to rule your argument a ‘no ball’ and leave it at that!
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October 18, 2018 at 6:43 PM
What a pakau, full of incessant psycho-babble, this article is. I could easily choose the same words, the same loose literary association of mundane acts committed on celluloid to any film released in Bollywood. Any film!
Through its double temporality, the movie offers a salient commentary on contemporary India because the movie is set in Gujurat, the very province that witnessed Muslim-Hindu tension and bloody violence in the same year as the film’s release.
This is damn hilarious!
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October 18, 2018 at 6:48 PM
Somehow the makers of Lagaan were prescient enough to see the riots of 2002 before the film was even released!
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October 18, 2018 at 6:54 PM
Bhuvan might or might not understand what Elizabeth is saying; however, Gauri’s sexual antennae are honed to the point where she has an almost visceral grasp of Elizabeth’s desires.
LOL, I’m at a serious loss for words!
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October 18, 2018 at 5:31 PM
some of these essays are quite critical of the film as well (incidentally I am sympathetic to some of the criticism as well, many years ago made a point on kachra along the same lines..) but nonetheless they use it as an important reference point for their larger theoretical concerns:
Click to access chakrabortylagaan.pdf
Click to access 3250ad648a0955bc3abc737c5fa8f8890011.pdf
Click to access 006011040001.pdf
this is a rather long, rigorous piece but you’ll have to register on the site to be able to access it:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4411449?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents
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October 18, 2018 at 3:14 PM
I’d rather call the underlying message of Delhi 6 very strong and something to ponder upon rather than RDB, even though the latter is a better film. And I believe Mehra should have kept the original ending of Abhishek dying at the end to create a more profound impact.
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October 18, 2018 at 3:18 PM
Our comments crossed. I made the same point above.
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October 18, 2018 at 3:23 PM
agreed everywhere here..
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October 18, 2018 at 3:15 PM
RDB does get it wrong in at least one sense: the protagonists kill the Defense Minister and then argue that people should become the change that they talk about. In other words, we killed because we didn’t have the time (more expediently, the script needed that moment of catharsis, achieved through a murder) but you guys need to be patient and fight the system. That is a cop-out. But then 99% (or more) of Bollywood endings are cop-outs. In this case though, it certainly muddles the waters, in more senses than one. It does distract a bit from the film’s overall narrative strength. And this has always been a problem with Mehra – his mode of closure isn’t always the satisfying one.
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October 18, 2018 at 3:33 PM
If you’re trying to say something in a film, a message etc you’ve got to make damn sure it’s the right message. And RDB risk and reward doesn’t hold up here. The balance is wrong. Killing to fight for what you believe in is not a moralistic message at all. I was 20 something when RDB released, read all those wonderful reviews on NG that were pretty on the fence – I pondered back then what are these bozzo’s thinking about! What a film! But alas you grow up & realize such a film needs to be judged appropriately. A peaceful protest, some narrative to convict the minister through legal means whatever but the killing is for shock value and really enters problematic terrain. I’m more moved by this film for Madhavan’s track – that’s the real martyr here to many degrees. The rest of the film and end is like Tarantino just a bit too crazy! My favourite scene is still Soha Ali Khan breaking down at college when she learns of his death. Heartbreaking scene. Then the huge crisis that follows. It’s a superb film till the last 30 minutes. Exactly how I felt about Dil Se. Again the narrative just goes very haywire but in a more ‘real’ ending. Real martyrdom!
I’ve forgotten Delhi 6 but I’m pretty sure I didn’t like that film as much as RDB. One I hope to revisit one day!
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October 18, 2018 at 3:45 PM
You should also check out Aks if you don’t remember it. Haven’t seen it in many years but loved it at the time. Again the film is closer to RDB than D6 in terms of its basic mix. D6 in some ways is aesthetically more out of the box for Mehra than anything he’s done before or since.of course thematically it’s still connected to RDB. Without trying to sound unkind today I’d say that all of Mehra’s films are messy. For better and worse.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:00 PM
Messy is not bad. It’s just confusing in his films. It’s not like PK where Hirani loses it 2nd half but still gets the message across – RDB does a U-turn in some senses. I will 100% take Hirani’s 4 films (not Sanju) + TZP over RDB even if the latter looks visually better, has better music, better technically, better whatever. Because the former films don’t partly in any way cop out, they might lose some steam or become too sugary or whatever but they accomplish some form of solution and stay true to the overall issues at play.
RDB is about changing society through one’s own actions but in the end martyrdom is not a solution nor killing the minister. It creates more questions than answers…but Saket likes to ponder so let it be!
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October 18, 2018 at 4:08 PM
Satyam just curious to know which one you’d pick from Dil Se and RDB
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October 18, 2018 at 4:31 PM
Dil Se, very easily.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:33 PM
Ha I really was embracing myself for an essay there…
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October 18, 2018 at 6:22 PM
“Dil Se, very easily.”
Are you high or serious? or seriously high?
I’ve been meaning to but now I really have to check out this movie.
I didn’t love RDB like how many here does but i didn’t mind it at all. Was able to watch it in one go. Dil Se, i remember turning it off about 15 minutes into it.
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October 18, 2018 at 6:44 PM
Very serious!
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October 18, 2018 at 1:30 PM
I have also observed that the generations that followed more or less prefer RDB and DCH to Lagaan. Maybe they can identify with the youth-centric nature of the films and identifiable situations, without caring too much about the aspects of filmmaking. They might also think choosing Lagaan might be a little “uncool” for them.
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October 18, 2018 at 2:02 PM
Not uncool at all. It’s excellent, exciting cinema. And there are things to stew on like you mentioned. The film fleeting touches on caste system too, vegetariasm & such things in not so heavy ways. People do tend to forget this film had messages just like TZP or RDB or 3 Idiots. The cricket match is a curve ball.
Leadership, motivation, taking a risk, self belief, standing up for what you believe in, changing (going from bad to good) and I could go on.
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October 18, 2018 at 10:32 AM
and people who’ve watched Lagaan in a packed theater IN INDIA, know what the experience has been like. That has not been replicated by any other film.
RDB has been loved and supported more by youngsters of the 1990s who think hindi cinema didn’t exist before DDLJ.
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October 18, 2018 at 10:33 AM
or was inconsequential before DDLJ, except maybe one or two defining films*
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October 18, 2018 at 10:43 AM
Not just India…I watched in a packed theatre on June 15, 2001..the day it came out and the experience was something else….it’s a good thing that there weren’t a lot of dialogues during the cricket match because we would not have been able to listen to them with the crowd just going nuts! The entire theatre absolutely erupted when Javed Khan said….HUM JEET GAYE HUM JEET GAYE!!!!
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October 18, 2018 at 10:45 AM
I have absolutely no doubt the Lagaan releasing on a Christmas today with the amount of screens we have would minimum make 400 CR.
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October 18, 2018 at 10:48 AM
yes exactly. 400 crore would have been a given today for this masterpiece. remember it released at a time with few very multiplexes in India and being released alongside the biggest BO grosser of that time.
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October 18, 2018 at 10:50 AM
Gowarikar/Aamir played on the audience’s emotions like a music conductor in the entire match: evoking huge laughs and applause while keeping them tensed for a duration of 1 hour and 20 minutes.
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October 18, 2018 at 12:26 PM
Not entirely true..people who like RDB are not necessarily DDLJ fan but opposite probably is true..
The way I see is, DDLJ aspire you to be cool and have more money in recently liberalized Indian economy… RDB was more angst with system in liberalized India where some people wield disproportionate power.. If you don’t encounter system, everything is hunky dory.
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October 18, 2018 at 12:48 PM
I know, that statement was made in a goofy way. definitely not to be taken seriously
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October 18, 2018 at 7:28 PM
Agree, I think I watched Lagaan thrice in the theatres. The earlier two times was immediately after the release and the third one was few weeks later when the shows were not so full..
As I mentioned above the movie watching experience in the fully packed theater has not been witnessed by me before or after Lagaan and I have been watching movies regularly since 97, that’s when I started my college.
Also agree, do watch the making it’s much better time spent then watching the junk being dished out in the name of entertainment.
I would like to add I like RDB a lot, that is the movie when I realized when Aamir’s movie comes out no one talks about its box office collection (until Ghajini) but rather most people used to discuss the quality of his movies. Watched RDB in Dubai in a late late night show on a Thursday when it released, glad Friday’s are off because I couldn’t sleep at all. It was quite impactful.
But if it is Lagaan vs RDB I would still choose Lagaan.
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October 18, 2018 at 10:57 AM
What Aamir has been standing for last 30 years is usually ignored or misunderstood by the fans of his success – his entire career has been a ‘big’ middle finger to ‘norms’ and ‘standards’.
Read these anecdotes …
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/news/features/mr-perfectionist-aka-aamir-khan-completes-thirty-year-marathon-run-one-man-race-still/
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October 18, 2018 at 10:59 AM
And rdb represents his attitude a billion times more than lagaan.
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October 18, 2018 at 11:05 AM
But Lagaan is a special point in his career. After been beaten black and blue by the bollywood system, Aamir finally started beating the system with Lagaan …
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October 18, 2018 at 11:18 AM
This isn’t a vote on which film represents Aamir the best. But of course you are allowed to interpret favourite film however which way you want.
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October 18, 2018 at 11:31 AM
There are always reasons for any choice. Mostly we dont analyze as they are usually unflattering.
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October 18, 2018 at 11:30 AM
Please stop calling him Mr Perfectionist…not sure which idiot gave him this title…..this whole article is peppered with this stupid word.
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October 18, 2018 at 11:33 AM
Just read the anecdotes.
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October 18, 2018 at 4:32 PM
Current score is Lagaan 17-7 RDB. Let’s see if much changes by morning…I’ve entered myself into martyrdom for at least the night – I might wake up with my senses back and change my vote back to Lagaan.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:00 PM
Lagaan.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:45 PM
part of a much longer older comment:
[Check out a documentary on the West Indian team of the mid-70s to mid-80s (most often called the greatest in history along with Bradman’s post-war Australian side) called Fire in Babylon. Here you see how it wasn’t just about cricket or attitude in any easy sense but about almost finding a second independence and liberation through the game. It was for them about overcoming an entire colonial history.]
I’d argue that Lagaan does something similar. This again is about the ‘double time’ of the film. On the one hand the narrative is set in colonial times. On the other hand the staging of the match and its result is a post-colonial exercise. The revenge of the colonized if you will. The game is played and won by a ragtag bunch using odd ‘techniques’ and so on, all of this mirrors cricket realities of the last 20-30 years (or even older counting the West Indian history of the game). In other words a kind of anachronistic ‘correction’ in the past. This is in any case a film with political meaning exactly as West Indian cricket’s dominance in the 70s and 80s had political meaning. One could say similar things about Brazilian soccer and the Pele moment. There’s of course a lot more that could be said in the context of ‘meaning’ in Lagaan but this seems to me to be the essential framework of the film.
In a related sense note how MP extends this project in certain ways. The political and the erotic aspects of this colonial encounter. You have the brothel catering only to whites in MP (historically accurate by the way) or the Indian girl saved by the white officer from a terrible custom. In Lagaan of course you have the love triangle (the white girl shows up again in RDB!), the ballroom sequence is quite interesting in this context, there is really a lot that could be said here.
All this has put me in the mood to revisit the film! Haven’t seen it in a very long time.
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October 18, 2018 at 7:49 PM
Satyam: finally read through the first thesis on Lagaan. I apologize if I sounded too immature earlier (though not without reason…!)
I get the idea of double temporality — the part about being stuck as well as looking forward at the same time, but the latter is a meta-narrative, something that exists outside of the movie-verse. This is not what I meant by thematic depth. Inside the movie-verse, there is an attempt to correct historical wrongs (untouchability, for instance), to forge a secular alliance, but these are perfunctory goals. The main aim is to entertain the audience. The film also follows a rather predictable template/arc.
There are flaws too. The rural setting is semi-authentic, the language used is not authentic for the setting (Gujarat), the unrequited romance between Bhuvan and Rachel, certainly questionable, are examples of improper staging, but we largely ignore these for the overall effect. I don’t watch Lagaan for historical accuracy, nor do I treat it as a historical lesson.
So my question is, why do you think Lagaan is more meaningful than RDB? Why do you think it’s more ambitious or interesting, for that matter?
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October 18, 2018 at 7:52 PM
Roger Ebert has a good piece on the film:
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/lagaan-once-upon-a-time-in-india-2002
as does Peter Bradshaw:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2001/jun/22/culture.reviews
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October 18, 2018 at 8:22 PM
I think that you perhaps value films more in which meaning is, if you will, explicitly discussed or at least present as meaning. RDB has an explicit idea and it then ‘discusses’ that idea throughout the film. I don’t have a problem with this mode at all but then there are very many films that don’t wear meaning on their sleeves. These are even films that might seem like ‘entertainers’ at first glance but conceal in fact far more. I had a long comment recently where I got into Leone’s films among other things. There’s nothing that’s obvious in Leone in precisely the same sense (or for that matter Ford). But there is certainly a great deal of ‘meaning’ to be teased out in each instance. All grand entertainers are not meaningful in the same sense. I wouldn’t say about Dharam Veer what I’m saying about Lagaan!
Just to give you my capsule sense of Lagaan I see it as a kind of fable set in a colonial neverland. It is not meant to be precise in terms of its politics or its historical depiction and so on (though one can certainly criticize its politics in terms of caste representation etc..). That film is in fact MP. Lagaan is much more of a poetic fairy-tale. This is the dominant mood or tone of the film. It’s a chapter in the history of colonial romances (this genre as represented in fiction and in film.. so many Hollywood classics come to mind). As a supremely well-made film it wouldn’t really require to be much more than it is but the terms on which it stages the colonial encounter nonetheless makes it a more meaningful and certainly subversive film than might be instantly apparent. Just little things strewn all over the film. The Krishna of this film is actually fascinated by the white girl. In the ballroom sequence the white girl is thinking of Krishna (even dancing with him!). There is all this ‘tinkering’ going on that means much more against that same colonial backdrop. And of course the ragtag team is also about the forging of a nation. After the match is won Aamir moves ‘forward’ with MP even as he goes further back in time in a sense. I won’t repeat what I’ve just said about all this. There is a fair bit that could be explored in Lagaan. Of course I’m not confusing it with MP. The aims of both films are very different and yet they are part of the same continuum. It’s not coincidental that Aamir went on to MP after this where again a lot of our expectations about relations between natives and the colonial ‘master’ are subverted (I again find the kotha moment crucial, even if this is completely accurate it is not what the audience believes about their past on this score, it certainly isn’t something they’ve ever seen in a Hindi film).
On RDB I find its muddled politics to be more or less aligned with ‘New Indian’ ideological positions. This would take some time to unpack but the confusions of the film are precisely those of its audience. Put differently I don’t believe this film really challenges its audience. At least not ultimately. Once more I’ve made this point at length in my longer piece on the film (where I used LRB as another example in the same political sense). Even leaving this aside its politics is somewhat obvious. I find Dil Se a bit mysterious, intriguing, certainly a lot more interesting. Some of this I’d be willing to say for D6 (though it was a major blunder to change the original ending here, UTV applied some pressure on Mehra, but this was just a bad bad decision, as Mehra himself later said the whole tone of the film makes much more sense as a dead man’s narration, sadly we never got that cut, it was shown in Venice and a few other places at one point) as well.
Finally a film that is ‘trying to be’ more meaningful is not automatically a better film than a film that has somewhat different aims. So yes at a certain literal level Lagaan is indeed an entertainer whereas RDB is some sort of political message film. But these are merely descriptive labels. These don’t exhaust the possibility of each film’s meaning, whether on internal grounds or as a cultural document. By the way Peter Bradshaw’s Kurosawa reference is interesting in this context as well. Because Kurosawa too made great entertainers (certainly his most iconic films). The ‘meaning’ of these films is not obvious the way it is in say an Antonioni film. Once again you need to tease out all those layers. I’m assuredly not comparing Lagaan with Kurosawa in some silly way but there is an analogy that holds.
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October 18, 2018 at 10:20 PM
And to be clear once more I don’t see this as some sort of competition between Lagaan and RDB. If someone prefers the latter that’s a perfectly reasonable judgment. I happen to think the opposite. But I mostly got into this discussion because I thought you were being too dismissive of Lagaan. As for the essays yes they can get ‘jargony’ a lot of times, overwritten and so on, but I put them up as examples of how meaning could be read in the film. Can one do this for every single film? I don’t believe so. Of course even the poorest film can be symptomatic of something and be read as an example of cultural criticism. So KKHH is a ‘useless’ film but it nevertheless says something significant about the ways in which its key audience ‘thinks’. I can debate RDB but I can’t do the same for Raja Hindustani! So on and so forth.
Finally, and to insist on a point, not every film that offers ‘meaning’ in an explicit sense is by that very token a rich or important film. Cinema is an art form that exemplarily privileges the unconscious, one might even call it the art form of the unconscious. We can never insist on explicit meaning even elsewhere but especially so with cinema. And now to be guilty of a bit of jargon I think it’s useful to follow the signification system of a film or the signs it uses to create meaning. For instance Manmarziyaan is a kind of meta-film. It doesn’t make complete sense unless one also sees it as responding to a whole history of love triangles. It does work at a literal level but this would be to miss much of its subversion. Any reading of MM must take this into account. Similarly for Lagaan a whole archive of colonial politics is indispensable as a reference point. Put differently there is no overall spectrum that one can establish for all kinds of cinema so that different films are then slotted at one end or the other. Depending on the film sometimes the entire spectrum changes.
I’ll make one more point on RDB (again I’ve already criticized its politics in a number of older comments today in this thread). The fact that it is shot a certain way (to take an example) isn’t the end of the discussion. Yes it’s visually very appealing, very seductive but how do these formal choices work with its more explicit themes? Aren’t the visual choices of this film correlated in certain ways to our consumerist present, paradigmatically represented in the film by way of its key characters? In other words the characters express dissatisfaction with the lives they lead or the ‘state of the nation’, their reality then is put forward by way of a visual form that is also very much aligned to contemporary global cinematic conventions in a variety of ways. This is fine as far as it goes but when there is rebellion or when the characters take a radical step forward the film doesn’t register this shift at the same visual level. Or even earlier in the cross-cutting between past and present (mythologized history and present day angst) the film basically remains faithful to the very same registers. In a way the game is given away even before it has begun. In this sense it’s not surprising that there is compromise by the end. Because the film has always respected this ‘New Indian’ wager which is why it was immediately acceptable. Why aren’t more people bothered by its politics? why didn’t as many people like Talaash? There are narrative answers to this question but there are also formal ones. Consider what happens to time in Mehra’s world versus the same in Reema Kagti’s. Or even RDB vs D6 is a very instructive example. To reformulate all of this RDB is perhaps too seductive a film for its own good or at least relative to its other concerns. With Lagaan once again I find everything to be ‘in sync’. RDB is a very strong film in very many ways but whether it is truly keyed into its political aims is something I find questionable. But I still value the film for all this which is why I voted for it at one point (over DCH I think).
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October 19, 2018 at 3:15 AM
This is fine as far as it goes but when there is rebellion or when the characters take a radical step forward the film doesn’t register this shift at the same visual level. Or even earlier in the cross-cutting between past and present (mythologized history and present day angst) the film basically remains faithful to the very same registers.
There’s a lot to register here and I don’t disagree with the majority of points you seem to be making, but will answer this first. The visual palette in RDB changes during the course of the film. The film is very much pan-focused in the initial portions and relies a lot on close-ups during the second half, giving it a more claustrophobic, intimate look. There are shifts in coloring and tone as well. The later portions are devoid of brightness, low-colour saturated and low key in general.
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October 19, 2018 at 6:28 AM
This is a very nice note Saket, I guess I was somewhat unclear earlier. Partly I haven’t seen the film in a long time so I’ve been relying on memory (as with Lagaan for that matter). I do remember many of the quieter scenes in the film, including those in the first half, and I think what you’re saying holds there as well. But Mehra’s shifts are keyed into his narrative more than its political implications at every point. When things get more serious, when there’s a reflective scene or an emotional one and so on the film slows down and many of Mehra’s choices reflect this. A similar shift occurs in DCH as well from first to second half, here too it’s a half of greater sobriety (if you will), of course here the film begins in a quieter sense and then flashes back. But again I don’t disagree with your note. My point is that the film’s formal choices are often complicit in the politics it’s otherwise trying to critique. But your correction is in a more precise sense a totally fair one.
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October 19, 2018 at 6:39 AM
by the way note something else that’s crucial about RDB and somewhat ironic, even if unintended by the director — to enable that kind of political consciousness in its protagonists the film needs an ex-colonial (but of course colonialism didn’t just end when the British left India!) subject. Her documentary literally ‘gives’ these protagonists their ‘history’. This is otherwise a nice move as it is representative of how history is negotiated between colonizer and colonial subjects. But once more the film doesn’t register this irony as a political matter. What if there were no documentary at all? The politics of this film therefore needs an ‘external’ agent to trigger (pun intended) it. This is different from Lagaan where the colonizer is already on the inside. And there is another structural similarity too. Where in Lagaan a ragtag outfit is formed into a team for the purpose of battling the colonizer in a sport and thereby asserting a certain agent and where this resistance is home-grown.. in RDB on the other hand the ‘foreigner’ will have lead such a rebellion with an implicit mea culpa of historic guilt (this too is otherwise reflective of postcolonial realities). Political consciousness is borne into this film because Sue enters the scene and begins such a project. And as one of the excellent older essays on this film noted at the time there is an essential ambiguity on whether the freedom movement scenes are neutrally juxtaposed with the present or if these are simply Sue’s imagining. The latter possibility though makes the film even more problematic in the sense I am suggesting. In any case there is something of a Lagaan continuation even here (not only in MP).
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October 19, 2018 at 5:10 AM
Finally, and to insist on a point, not every film that offers ‘meaning’ in an explicit sense is by that very token a rich or important film. Cinema is an art form that exemplarily privileges the unconscious, one might even call it the art form of the unconscious. We can never insist on explicit meaning even elsewhere but especially so with cinema. And now to be guilty of a bit of jargon I think it’s useful to follow the signification system of a film or the signs it uses to create meaning. For instance Manmarziyaan is a kind of meta-film. It doesn’t make complete sense unless one also sees it as responding to a whole history of love triangles. It does work at a literal level but this would be to miss much of its subversion. Any reading of MM must take this into account. Similarly for Lagaan a whole archive of colonial politics is indispensable as a reference point. Put differently there is no overall spectrum that one can establish for all kinds of cinema so that different films are then slotted at one end or the other. Depending on the film sometimes the entire spectrum changes.
But this is not how people remember Guru Dutt’s Pyaasa or Kaagaz Ke Phool. They don’t go searching for meta-narratives when the main one is good enough to enthrall. Put differently, I’m not arguing that a meta-narrative doesn’t add to the reading of a film, I’m actually arguing something completely different – the main narrative is the one that keeps a film’s timelessness intact. Apart from a few scholars, no one is going to look at Lagaan as a post-colonial attempt to redefine a secular India or its role as a critique of modern Indian politics, much less the cultural mourning in a Freudian sense. People, normal viewers and filmmakers alike, will view it as an entertaining yarn. I’m quite sure the filmmaking in RDB will inspire filmmakers from the coming generations. I don’t think the same will apply to Lagaan (it hasn’t inspired a lot of films since 2001 either). I have given credit to the film – it certainly redefined, for a 90s audience at least, the expectations one should have from a commercial film. In a good way. I’m not arguing that Lagaan is stupid – I’m saying it’s not very intelligent, at least when it comes to the main text of the film. And for all its laurels, it remains unabashedly a multiplex film. The quintessential multiplex film, if you will, where none of the concerns are quite real (the audience, in general, does not suddenly become sympathetic to our rural brothers and sisters, who form the crux of the story); we cheer for the underdog, we celebrate his victory and we go back happy and elated. Mission accomplished. Yes, people cheer for a good story, a rather unique plot device, but what else is there to talk about? So far, the majority of the responses, on this very thread, paint the same story. Roger Ebert’s review is another example – leaving aside the fact that he finds some amusement in an exotic song-and-dance film, he literally has little to say about its meta virtues. I wouldn’t expect it from him either. He isn’t simply versed about India’s history or seems to give that impression in his review.
In this sense it’s not surprising that there is compromise by the end. Because the film has always respected this ‘New Indian’ wager which is why it was immediately acceptable. Why aren’t more people bothered by its politics? why didn’t as many people like Talaash? There are narrative answers to this question but there are also formal ones. Consider what happens to time in Mehra’s world versus the same in Reema Kagti’s. Or even RDB vs D6 is a very instructive example. To reformulate all of this RDB is perhaps too seductive a film for its own good or at least relative to its other concerns. With Lagaan once again I find everything to be ‘in sync’. RDB is a very strong film in very many ways but whether it is truly keyed into its political aims is something I find questionable. But I still value the film for all this which is why I voted for it at one point (over DCH I think).
People didn’t like Talaash because they mostly didn’t buy into the supernatural premise of its story. Even reviewers were arguing that they didn’t expect a ‘Bhoot-Pret’ story from Aamir Khan. The supernatural element was completely besides the point, but that’s a different matter. The audience didn’t stay away from Talaash because they were disturbed by its politics – they stayed away because they didn’t find it convincing enough as a narrative. I would argue the same for RDB – it’s not a conventional, feel-good film. Its politics is quite disruptive and in very clear terms, it incentivizes the Bhagat Singh/Chandrashekhar ideology over Gandhian ideals, itself quite an alarming thought. But RDB worked because it hit a raw nerve, and despite our rationalization of this consumerist approach to RDB, it certainly appealed to a certain restlessness of youth (urban and young, true), which has a certain timelessness to it. The same concerns that Rakeysh Mehra had in his youth (perhaps not the most important, even though corruption can’t be whiled away as unimportant) are the ones that define the youth of today and it is this universality of emotions that made RDB a massive hit. It’s not the story-telling that I keep on harping about (this technical aspect of the film makes it more of a personal vanity project even – a sign of artistry, if there was one) that people loved about it. If anything, I expect the story-telling might have alienated some of its audience who would have found the message useful but inaccessible because of its narrative registers. I’m essentially saying RDB became a massive hit despite its technical virtuosity – not because of it. It remains, a film, more close to an independent filmmaker’s heart, and because it’s so technically proficient, my argument is that it will remain accessible for generations to come. Its message, however muddled it might be, will not lose its edge because the film, as a narrative structure, will not lose its edge.
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October 19, 2018 at 6:08 AM
I think Lagaan has been enormously influential in terms of shifting the focus towards the ‘prestige’ film in the contemporary age (you’ve noted some of this yourself). Since Lagaan it has never been enough only to get box office success. Barring someone like Salman of course. But for a half-serious actor it has been necessary to be seen as doing something meaningful as well. So I think Lagaan’s success has been structural in this sense. Otherwise I’d say DCH has been the single most influential film in this entire period. As for RDB I don’t really see its influence so far in that direct sense. Not to say it won’t matter otherwise. But so will Lagaan in my view.
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October 19, 2018 at 6:47 AM
another thing to add here is that within the context of Aamir’s career Lagaan does re-invent him as a latter day nationalist as well. And this theme then runs through many of his more serious films. Even when he’s not actively playing such a part he becomes very much the public figure who’s registering the temperature of the body politic. His TV show is part of this logic. His most recent Dangal too is again connected to the Lagaan world in certain ways. Here too you have nationalism and sports twinned, here too the foreign competition, especially the Australian! It’s still easiest to explain most of Aamir’s subsequent career as indexed to Lagaan than to any other film of his. But again DCH is otherwise Bollywood’s most influential film in this period. Here, and interestingly, Aamir’s own career is far less informed by it (barring the formal structure of RDB) with the exception of the all-important 3I, a kind of DCH ‘update’.
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October 19, 2018 at 6:16 AM
On the other point I’m not sure if it’s relevant how people view a film at a conscious level. No one reads that kind of meaning into Awara either. Yet it is taught at many films schools around the world. No one reads any such meaning into Salim-Javed scripts either. We unfortunately live in a country where there is simply the absence of such film culture (barring Rangan) and even arthouse efforts are not really ‘read’ in any such way. But even say in the US where such a culture does exist and where there have been hosts of famous critics even then the general audience does not find that kind of meaning in films. Now having said all this my wager would be: it is precisely because such meaning is available in certain films as opposed to others that viewers react to different films in different ways. Put differently they respond at an unconscious level to that which they cannot consciously formulate. The audience doesn’t have to be a set of theorists. But here I’d also add that you cannot exit or enter the ‘meaning’ argument on different days. You’ve been arguing for precisely greater meaning in films as a matter of personal choice. But note how there is a tone of ‘too much’ or ‘cmon, who reads so much into these films!’ when I make the same case for Lagaan.
By the way on Talash I don’t believe it’s the ghost story that’s problematic for people here. I think it’s precisely the film’s ‘meaning’.
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October 18, 2018 at 10:44 PM
This IS THE satyamshot I’d been missing!! Thanks aplenty to Tony, Saket, Satyam for such stirring & stimulating discussion & Jay for being the enabler and the facilitator in making this thread such an enamouring & captivating space.
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October 19, 2018 at 1:20 AM
Very good points Saket. Not sure about awadhi but I had serious issues with Rachel being in love with Bhutan. Some kind of soft corner or inclination would have boded well but dedicating a love song was too much for me to digest. Especially when the rest of the narrative had the right tone across the board. Second issue was indeed trivial, there were no sixers in cricket in 19th century. Both RDB and Lagaan were equally difficult films to pull it off in bollywood, especially commercial success. RDB offers more complexity in terms of narrative, screenplay, cohesiveness of the message and very very difficult editing. In cricket analogy I would liken RDB innings like scoring a century on a very bouncy and difficult wicket where as Lagaan was almost perfect double century in wankhade. I feel Dangal is executed pretty well but far less layers compared to these movies.
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October 19, 2018 at 1:40 AM
Was the century against Zimbabwean bowling attack and double century against the great West Indian bowling attack? 😀
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October 19, 2018 at 2:14 AM
A century against Zimbabwe on a tricky pitch is worth much more than a double against the mighty Windies of the ’80s on a flat pitch. Put differently, on a tricky ptich, even an otherwise average bowler becomes Marshall, Holding or Garner, whereas on a flat pitch, even the greats are reduced to being average.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:16 AM
Okay but you forgot the batter was Tendulkar for the century and Srinath for the double 😀
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October 19, 2018 at 2:16 AM
Thanks, SP. I agree with you on Dangal. It’s one film (apart from TZP) which gets me every time just by the power of its raw emotions.
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October 18, 2018 at 11:22 PM
FInal Vote:
LAGAAN
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October 19, 2018 at 2:39 AM
btw jayshah the cover pic for this topic can be equally applicable to Dhobhi Ghat, given Aamir’s getup and the shape of that wood plank
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October 19, 2018 at 3:01 AM
Lagaan has top scored in every stage. Of course a large part of that is due to the opponent. Only QSQT matched it until it was dumped out by Rang De Basanti at QF…
Lagaan 20-6 Rang De Basanti…I’m alive!
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October 19, 2018 at 3:18 AM
Can we extend the voting?..not for votes but for discussion 🙂
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October 19, 2018 at 3:45 AM
Yes it’s been fun…
Although I’m worried if Saket carries on long enough Lagaan might lose! He’s very persuasive…once he gets going on the camera work of Rang De Basanti, we are in trouble…and cinematography will nail it 😀
Voting extended till Rang De Basanti wins 😀
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October 19, 2018 at 5:28 AM
LOL! Not doing this for changing perspectives though. I’m just not convinced by some of the arguments put forward…so far!
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October 19, 2018 at 3:21 AM
Not for long … DJ’s gang will descend on you, they now call themselves Thugs.
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October 19, 2018 at 7:46 AM
From 2.20 onwards, goosegumps guaranteed
One of the fewer talked about aspects of Lagaan has been its BGM. Played a crucial role in making things rather tense in the match.
goosebumps guaranteed here,
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October 19, 2018 at 11:50 AM
I will answer Satyam’s messages at a later point, but since the debate has veered in the direction of social and cultural currency, I’ll reproduce this extract from wikipedia about RDB’s social relevance (and its impact on society):
While such reactions were observed on the Internet, youth activism took to streets to protest on public interest issues. A direct impact was on the 1999 Jessica Lall Murder Case, one of the high-profile murder cases in India. A month after the film’s release, a court acquitted the main accused because of inefficient prosecution and hostile witnesses.[99] This sparked intense civil protests and media campaigns that sought his re-arrest. Taking cue from the scene in which the protagonists hold a silent, candlelight vigil at New Delhi’s India Gate, one such group of demonstrators carried out a similar rally to voice their protest.[100] Shortly thereafter, a survey was conducted to assess reasons for the sudden upsurge in people’s social involvements. Eighteen percent of the respondents felt that movies like Rang De Basanti were the main reason behind it.[101] Another such massive youth activism was seen in the Priyadarshini Mattoo rape and murder case where similar rallies were organised in India, United States and around the world.[102][103] Following the release of the film, another social outcry was against the introduction of reservations for socially backward classes in educational institutions. Young doctors and engineers joined hands in peaceful rallies in major cities across India.[104] Though the film was not released in the neighbouring Pakistan, it evoked similar reactions there. Inspired by the film, Pakistan’s national newspaper, Jang, launched a television channel that was to focus on citizens’ issues and support public awakening.[105] Reacting to these strong social reactions, actor Kunal Kapoor thought that the film was just a catalyst that presented “patriotism in a package that the youngsters understood and empathised with”.[106]
In the Indian media, frequent referencing of the film was evident, with many brands using pictorials from the movie.[107] In addition, the media also uses the terms “RDB” (abbreviated title of the movie) and “RDB effect” while referring to instances of public activism on matters of public interest.[66] When the 2007 University of Delhi Student Elections focused more on the important issues facing the students than in the previous years, one student referred to this as the “RDB Syndrome”.[108] On similar lines, Kamal Sunavala wrote a play titled Under the Influence which focuses on a young Indian expatriate whose life changes after watching this film
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October 19, 2018 at 11:57 AM
A movie made for the multiplex audience, driven by our consumerist desires, nonetheless affected the outcome of two high-profile murder cases.
So it wasn’t just empty soul-searching for the young and restless. It certainly meant a lot more to people in the real sense.
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October 19, 2018 at 12:08 PM
Also, there is the simple matter of BJP and Congress vanishing as political parties in the Delhi assembly after the Jan Lokpal movement, which owes at least something to RDB.
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October 19, 2018 at 12:11 PM
Aamir: The whole system changed after Lagaan
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October 19, 2018 at 12:14 PM
Satyam – Aamir says Mela is a big hit in the heartland of India here…I think Saket will notice…
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October 19, 2018 at 12:20 PM
didn’t read that bit, Aamir is exaggerating things but there is probably some truth to the claim. Mela did 15-18 crores depending on who you believe (BOI have the lower number). DCH did 20 because it was more or less a Bombay-Delhi and some other multiplexes-across-India affair. The multiplex system wasn’t as big then or this film would have been huge. Mann did about the same (14-15) and it was pretty good in for example UP (remember this at the time). But of course these smaller centers, specially in a non-multiplex age, couldn’t inflate the numbers. Even today the Khakee number or even the Ghajini number is worth a lot more than the actual gross because these films were much bigger in the smaller centers. Similarly Vivaah’s 40 or so at the time, again a small center thing, means much more. Mela is obviously not in the same group but it might have done well enough to get to its 15.
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October 19, 2018 at 12:27 PM
Why?
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October 19, 2018 at 12:29 PM
Because I thought it’s an epic disaster! And I thought by Aamir saying that he loses credibility in his interview (haven’t read it all).
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October 19, 2018 at 12:33 PM
When did I even attempt to speak ill of Aamir?
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October 19, 2018 at 12:19 PM
The whole nation changed after RDB
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October 19, 2018 at 12:27 PM
Saket your passion here is remarkable. If only you did the same in SRK final, Swades may have won!
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October 19, 2018 at 12:35 PM
I really don’t care about Swades as a film at all. Not as an ideology, but straight up, as a film.
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October 19, 2018 at 12:43 PM
I do have a weakness for Swades, probably like it more in that personal sense than RDB. Now of course there’s no comparison between the two films otherwise (there is already a gulf between Lagaan and Swades in most formal ways). Except… in terms of their politics I see them somewhat aligned, in the same confused sense. But yeah otherwise Swades isn’t interesting enough a narrative to be really much more than the sum of its good moments.
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October 19, 2018 at 12:21 PM
Taking place in a moment several generations removed from independence, Rang de Basanti con- figures “Indianness” as much more elusive. Globalization produces such an intense alienation and dis- affection with the modern nation-state that it takes a British woman to sustain the fantasy of India’s pre-independence promise. However, this British woman, Sue, is not figured so much as other but self. She has little trouble “fitting in” with the Delhi University students she meets through her friend Sonia, whose attire and sensibilities very much resemble her own. Delhi is a utopian urban metropolis, not so different from London. Therefore, when the young men she encounters through Sonia — Daljit, Karan, Aslam, Sukhi — complain about corruption and lack of opportunities, nowhere is this lack re- flected in the mise-en-scène. Although the students come from different religious and economic back- grounds — rich boy, working class boy, Sikh, Hindu, Muslim — their discontent is leisurely and nebu- lous. These students possess a contagious, beer-swilling joie de vivre that is celebrated in the film. Their forgetfulness of history and present-day reality is fun, and yet, perversely, they are not happy because they realize their fun is only temporary, hence, Daljit’s refusal to leave college. Their biggest troubles come from a Hindu fundamentalist group that attempts to disrupt their romping drink fests. The sensibility and style of the musical numbers in which characters roam around Delhi in a Jeep re- flect the commercial advertisement background of Mehra. Sue arrives in India, a speaker of Hindi and knowledgeable in revolutionary history. However, rather than British-inflected, the hip-hop style of the A.R. Rehman musical scores and the graffiti painted on the walls of their favorite hangout riffs off a neutral US-American style; hence, Sue’s encounters with the locals is liberated from historical colonial relationship, despite her wall of photos, maps, and writings with her grandfather’s diary. However, rather than merely signifying a neo-colonial Orientalism, Sue’s fascination with Indian history, lan- guage, and culture offers proof of the potential commercial viability of an “Indianness” that can be transmitted; her presence in the movie as a near Indian demonstrates the global reach of Bollywood through the inclusion of the Western subject as protagonist. This particular Bollywood iteration of mo- dernity, the colonial paradigm of “going native” transforms into the transnational paradigm of “going global.” Here is an India seemingly liberated from history, a history that only Sue, an outsider, seems to covet.
https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1595&context=clcweb
The whole rather long piece is worth reading…
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October 19, 2018 at 12:32 PM
the incorporation of the various levels of realism in RDB facilitated Indian audie
nces to emotionally bond with the central characters and the majority of the events the movie. This connection in turn helped Mehra connect with his audiences enabling them to relate to RDB and its theme. Thus, audiences who were able to identify with the protagonists now felt encouraged to imbibe Mehra’s larger message of “become the change you wish to see in your country”.
It was this desire to improve the system that motivated like minded youngsters to critically argue and discuss RDB and its message on the Internet and
in real life thereby setting the ground for political citizenship and engagement which in a few months translated into citizenship in the real world when the injustice in the Jessica Lall and other similar cases was brought into public lime
light.
The political and social engagement which took place in real life and on the Internet after RDB’s release not only provided Indian youngsters the opportunity to publicly declare their status as active citizens but also enab
led them to showcase their individual efforts to participate in India’s public space. This social and political engagement had a positive effect on the political system as it resulted in policy changes in India which included an urgent appeal for judicial reform. Thus, the active citizenship witnessed after RDB’s release both in real life and on the Internet not only helped expand the public sphere but also revitalized democracy in India.
This project, by relying on the unique example of RDB, establishes the link between consumption and citizenship and argues that commercial enter
tainment can also promote rational debate and contribute to the expansion of the public sphere in certain circumstances
Master’s thesis — also worth reading
https://scholarworks.umass.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1116&context=theses
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October 19, 2018 at 12:40 PM
Saket, this has become a longer, somewhat wide-ranging discussion but let me boil it down to the basics which is essentially where I started disagreeing with you (in the exchange with tony montana):
1)I am not suggesting that Lagaan ought to be preferred by everyone over RDB. I consider Lagaan a much better film overall but more to the point I am making the point that there is ‘meaning’ in the film and to call it mere entertainment is reductive.
2)RDB is a film with many strengths, it’s easily one of the more important commercial Hindi films over the last 25 years or so. At the same time I find its politics too muddled to take seriously. That other people might think differently is not something I’m unaware of.
3)Lagaan is so far easily the more influential film in terms of Bollywood history. Could RDB be more valued in the future? Sure! Nothing is set in stone. But I don’t see Lagaan receding in the background. It is too important a moment of Bollywood’s and New India’s ‘self-definition’ to just disappear. Similarly Aamir Khan’s singular contemporary career is forever referencing that foundational moment one way or the other.
And really point #1 is what I started out with. I’d finally add this — for me interesting films remain open-ended in a way. You can debate them in more ways but I’m not really interested in a ‘definitive’ view one way or the other. So for example I liked MM a lot. At one level I think it mostly works, at another level I can also read it as a kind of interesting ‘failure’ (my final longer paragraph in the piece makes this point). Often it’s not one or the other. The fact that we’re debating RDB and not Fanaa means something. whatever my position on RDB I am not against any sort of debate on it. I am just arguing for Lagaan. Here too I am not against one not liking it. My only argument is: it cannot be reduced to ‘mere entertainment with nothing more serious about it’.
Put differently, for me interesting works (in cinema or elsewhere) open questions and problems. They grant one the space to think about certain things. So Dil Se (another somewhat messy narrative) might be critiqued in very many ways but it gives us the space to consider certain questions and I think in more radical ways than most commercial films of its kind. But a great work, even the ‘greatest’ work, isn’t for me a kind of ‘answer’ where one definitively says everything about the film and stores that judgment in a vault! The debate is always about the terms on which a proper discussion can take place. But this doesn’t mean I’m interested in policing discussions one way or the other. The achievement of a superior work lies in its being able to provoke debate. But this debate cannot be based on ground rules that stifle certain kinds of discussion. for instance I’ve never been a fan of Kaagaz ke Phool. I’m in the minority I know. But can there be the space for a cogent critique of the film? I think the answer to this is yes. Nothing is really sacred in this sense. People debate even the greatest works of art all the time. In any case I am completely uninterested in answers and again much more occupied with the ‘space’ a work opens up. On Lagaan I am not under some illusion that this is the deepest film imaginable. But it doesn’t have to be.
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October 19, 2018 at 1:15 PM
Disagree on point 3. As I’ve pointed out in the social relevance part, RDB far outweighs Lagaan in terms of social and cultural impact. As a matter of formalism, it’s a much better made film as well. On this, there can’t be much of a discussion. Gowarikar Vs Mehra? That’s a joke of a contest as far cinematic/formal technique is concerned. Films like A Wednesday, Gabbar is Back are direct off-shoots of RDB. Which sub-genre has Lagaan spawned?
In fact, on point 1, I disagree there as well. Vague, ponderous and extremely generic theories which throw the kitchen sink at anything and everything (Lagaan’s setting in Gujarat being a precursor to its commentary on the riots of 2002), I wouldn’t count as real meaning. A lot of what was said about Lagaan in the theoretical essay you posted would also apply to Manmohan Desai’s Mard. And we all know what a bad film that is. You asked me that I can’t back out of having more meaningful analysis of cinema — and I’m not backing out. My idea of film criticism is of the Pauline Kael variety and I’m sure you must know what she thought of academic pieces on film, in general.
And to quote Kael, “There is so much talk now about the art of the film that we may be in danger of forgetting that most of the movies we enjoy are not works of art.”
And…
To use traditional common-sense language, “good movies” or “good bad movies”—slick, reasonably inventive, well crafted. They are not art. But they are almost the maximum of what we’re now getting from American movies, and not only these but much worse movies are talked about as “art”—and are beginning to be taken seriously in our schools.
It’s preposterously egocentric to call anything we enjoy art—as if we could not be entertained by it if it were not.
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October 19, 2018 at 1:25 PM
Actually I personally couldn’t say all this about Mard but others are welcome to try..!
On Pauline Kael.. two things.. she’s notorious for some of her views. For example on Antonioni. Let’s say no one else in the critical establishment agrees with her. As to what she thought about academic pieces in general so what? It’s an eccentric, ill-tempered view as far as I’m concerned. The critic who says this earns a demerit in my book! But there is also some irony here. Because ‘academic’ can also lie in the eyes of the beholder. A lot of your very interesting comments on various films would also strike many as ‘academic’! It’s all a question of the language and discourses one is familiar (and comfortable) with. There are popular forms of criticism on all the arts and there are more specialized kinds (only so because one needs some training in the relevant discourses). They serve different purposes. I enjoy both equally, it all depends on the quality of the piece. I wasn’t necessarily endorsing the Lagaan pieces I put up (though I agree partially with some of them), I was making a different point there, that Lagaan could be read that way. Getting back to Kael the whole problem is that people are entertained by different things as well. The original audience of Kagaz ke phool wasn’t presumably entertained by the film! Leaving this aside I consider ‘entertainment’ a dubious category, itself a kind of ideological alibi.
Won’t debate the RDB point here, that’s a bit extraneous to the overall discussion. I’ll just add that one wikipedia piece is not necessarily the final historical word. A lot of culturally significant films of the past don’t mean as much today. RDB might or might not. But that’s not really the heart of my claim. In Bollywood terms I do believe Lagaan has been way more influential. RDB is one of the beneficiaries of this history. You’re arguing a somewhat different point.
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October 19, 2018 at 1:43 PM
Lagaan wins 20-6…
Carry on the discussion…
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October 19, 2018 at 1:48 PM
And this is a multiplex vote!
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October 19, 2018 at 1:52 PM
I’ve said before that RDB is probably the second most highly regarded film by a certain kind of younger multiplex audience (at least the younger demographic when these films released). DCH might be its only competition in this sense. However I doubt a poll of multiplex India would have either film trounce Lagaan. The poll here is some sort of sample in this sense. I suspect if you move outside the major metropolitan centers you will see still greater support for Lagaan than either RDB or DCH (when Lagaan released it got killed in these markets by gadar of course). But in any case this is not a bad cultural barometer for these films.
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October 19, 2018 at 1:53 PM
by the way in the same sort of multiplex India poll I think DDLJ would also win. As it did here. Now a Salman poll would be trickier in this sense. His base audience isn’t the multiplex one though he’s become big enough where everyone now just shows up for his films.
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October 19, 2018 at 3:50 PM
No, outside this forum, RDB will easily trounce Lagaan. On IMDB, it already has more votes as well as a higher rating. This vote is hardly a barometer for the real world.
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October 19, 2018 at 4:27 PM
General fascination with IMDb, YouTube views disturbs me. It’s not a sensible parameter. Any statistician will say it. The vote pool is too in favour of a younger & affluent demographic. I could carry on for ages on this topic. It’s precisely why when you vote for a prime minister it’s a binary decision of yes or no and not a score out of 10.
Anyway the BGM of RDB at the start is ROCKING!
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October 19, 2018 at 4:37 PM
agreed everywhere..
on RDB to repeat what I said just yesterday probably one of the best integrations of a soundtrack into a movie, at least in the Hollywood sense (traditionally soundtracks worked very differently in Hindi cinema). In D6 (and here responding to something Munna said) you have another sensational soundtrack but here the narrative has a very different tone and tenor and the music cannot really be integrated with it. Though I’m in the minority (of maybe 1!) in terms of preferring D6 to RDB (though RDB is the better overall work for sure) I will add a bit a bit cheekily, and in the context of the longer debate with Saket, that Mehra himself seems to have eschewed the RDB option in D6! The films ought to be viewed together in some ways. You have the ‘afterlife’-like closing moments of RDB and then D6, in the original version, would have been a dead man’s narration. One film therefore ends with death and the other one would have been a dead man’s account of a similar world (still is, for those few lucky enough to have seen it in Venice). And of course Mehra is treating similar themes in both films. In my view D6 offers a correction to RDB in some ways.
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October 19, 2018 at 4:39 PM
I actually much prefer Delhi 6 over RDB. I’ve seen all Rakeysh Mehra films and have liked them all — including Mirzya.
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October 19, 2018 at 8:23 PM
Haven’t seen Mirziya yet..
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October 19, 2018 at 4:37 PM
I do agree. IMDB isn’t really a great barometer of a film’s worth. Some of the names in the highest rated Hindi films list are shocking. Even for the young demographic it supposedly represents.
But so is the case for any vote. That’s why I prefer a site like Metacritic over something like Rotten Tomatoes. The former actually has an average rating based on the topmost critics only. I usually go by their consensus, although even that sometimes has a few surprises in store.
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October 19, 2018 at 1:56 PM
Lagaan is influential? Where?
We should see tangible affects and offshoots of that influence?
DCH has much more impact and influential in such sense.
Lagaan is influential in m World and my world is only real world.
Imaginary world.
Congrats Lagaan fans
– from RDB world
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October 19, 2018 at 2:00 PM
I’ve already said that DCH is the most influential film in terms of the genres it inspired and so on. However Lagaan (and this is the point Aamir himself made) changed the very perception on these things and made the prestige film unavoidable. After this film it wasn’t enough to just come up with a big grosser. One also needed this kind of film elsewhere in one’s career. So it’s a structural influence (within Aamir’s own filmography since it’s also a more direct one, right down to Dangal). DCH of course created all sorts of clones and to this date they’re all poorer to this film.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:23 PM
I believe it was a joint Lagaan/DCH influence. Lagaan was a milestone in that there were braver attempts to come up with unique stories. thats another matter than another Aamir film Ghajini also inspired much inferior trash cinema with Ghajini that claimed to cater to the single screen audience while serving junk.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:17 PM
Would like to add a point here: RDB is an influential film, and the multiplex audience outside of this blog will most probably prefer it to Lagaan. in fact a hell number of people would find the likes of Swades better than Lagaan. This is a trend I’ve observed, even on platforms like IMDB where Swades carries a better rating. This is not to overestimate the importance of the latter or IMDB as a user platform. but the sensibilities of today’s social media city generation probably resonate with it, and they let the “mental impact” to them matter more than the technical aspects. This is a group of people who haven’t really followed Hindi cinema over the years, and are well-fed on western cinema and their influences, patronizing Hindi cinema and considering the yesteryear works as inferior. Cant blame them much, the times we live in are volatile.
Another film that has greatly captured the interest of today’s youth (a very influential cinema going section today that cant be discounted, even if we’re talking of the multiplex youth) has been Gangs of Wasseypur. Dont be surprised if it ranks very high on their list of the best 21st century cinema.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:20 PM
On Swades a lot of the SRK voting tends to be insincere. In my experience this is the group that is most likely to vote for a film because their star is in it. RDB and Lagaan and DCH have more or less the same rating on IMDB. Swades is a bit harder to believe. Or let’s put it this way. In India certainly the first three had box office results proportionate with those ratings while Swades did not.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:26 PM
even the absolutely average stuff SRK has done generally guarantees a great rating. Darr supposedly carries as good a rating as Dil Se, My Name is Khan is even better
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October 19, 2018 at 2:21 PM
Incidentally and this one’s for Jay. How bad could Mela be when the film made 15 and Swades did 16.5 (both according to BOI, no friends of Aamir!)? And swades came 4 years later.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:42 PM
I think media portrayed Mela as a huge setback for Aamir in favour of Hritik’s Kahoo Na Pyaar Hai, after which the latter was praised to the skies. A story was built around the time how he single handedly defeated the trio, was the best thing after Bachchan and so on.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:53 PM
yes Mela definitely didn’t work (and expectations were much greater after RH) but there’s a difference between a normal kind of flop and an epic failure. The even better example is MP where the media grossly exaggerated the box office ‘failure’.
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October 19, 2018 at 4:19 PM
Gangs of Wasseypur also captured Martin Scorsese’s interest. It’s time to give up all those ideological objections to this film at least…!
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October 19, 2018 at 4:24 PM
A very good analysis of GoW. Do watch it!
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October 19, 2018 at 4:29 PM
hate to start this all over again (!) but:
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October 19, 2018 at 4:32 PM
I’m glad though that Scorsese didn’t follow this line of reasoning! I will take his judgement anyday.
(And I believe I’ve replied to most of the objections in the same thread)
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October 19, 2018 at 4:38 PM
You’ll take Scorsese’s judgment over mine? Very hurt..
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October 19, 2018 at 4:42 PM
LOL. Do watch the video analysis I’ve posted in response to tonymontana. It’s actually a very good one. This channel is maintained by a Film student and he has some great videos on cinema.
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October 19, 2018 at 8:22 PM
Will do.. thanks..
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October 19, 2018 at 9:56 PM
Just checked it out. Interesting watch for sure..
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October 19, 2018 at 5:13 PM
And I love the GoW soundtrack! It’s absolutely brilliant.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:33 PM
Thank you for the very nuanced and constructive discussion on Lagaan and RDB. I now will be watching both films this weekend, with this discussion in my mind…love it!
Who is next? Bachchan?? It’ll be appropriate with TOH releasing in a couple weeks.
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October 19, 2018 at 2:38 PM
actually I want to revisit both myself!
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October 19, 2018 at 3:04 PM
IMO we need some respite (2-3 days to a week)..we can not always function on high octane!
ps – Flip side is that, people who are typically not regularly, may .miss some part of next poll.
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October 19, 2018 at 3:37 PM
Me too I’m going to watch Rang De Basanti today. Always loved the film.
No more World Cup’s for a bit of time.
But next will be Madhuri Vs Sridevi war of the 80’s/90’s rekindled. So watch their films. I will try to pick one during the Cup to revisit depending on the tournament and debates.
But thanks Saket and Satyam for some great exchanges.
And #metoo, BH, TOH & 2.0 is plenty more to discuss.
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October 19, 2018 at 3:51 PM
no, thank you Jay! This was great fun.
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October 19, 2018 at 4:20 PM
Indeed, I second that..
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October 19, 2018 at 4:50 PM
Lagaan is once in a lifetime movie – no one, even aamir, can recreate that magic which was a combination of so many different aspects of movie-making…..a true-blue winner
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October 19, 2018 at 7:34 PM
Anyway, I watched Rang De Basanti and it looks like a film that could easily release today – so visually it’s not impaired at all. It’s really good and Saket I’m very persuaded. Most things work, still some issues but what I find more daft is Karan killing his father than the murdering of the minister. Aside from this it easily passes the test of time. This film has some support cast, all getting good scenes. It deserved a final birth. Atul Kulkarni really rocks in his role here.
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October 19, 2018 at 9:50 PM
World Cup ends with Lagaan thrashing RDB by a big margin. Looking back at all the films, I would categorize Aamir’s 30 year career (so far) into 4 distinct phases:
1. The first of course starts with QSQT (1988) and goes on till Aatank Hi Aatank (1995). In that span of 7 years he did 18 films with a lot of outright flops and average to forgettable films. Notable films in this phase were QSQT and JJWS, both of which made to the quarters here.
2. The second phase was from Rangeela (1995) to Mela (2000). In these 5 years he broke out of his romantic image, boycotted awards and started working at one film at a time. As a result, he did only 9 films in this period (which was still a lot compared to his latter days). Somewhere in the middle of this period he started mixing commercial cinema with parallel cinema with mixed results. Standout films from this period are Sarfarosh and Earth (some may disagree with latter), both of which again made it to the quarters.
3. The third is from Lagaan (2001) to TZP (2007). Apart from notable 6 films he did delivered in these 6 years, this phase was highlighted by personal crisis of divorce, depression and then second marriage and a great comeback with RDB and Fanaa in 2006. As many as 3 of these 6 films made it to the quarters here (Lagaan, RDB and TZP) – two of which fought in the finals. I personally rate this as his best phase in his entire career. [ This was also when he founded AKP and became a producer. ]
4. The blockbuster 4th phase started from Ghajini (2008) to present, in which he had done 10 films (including TOH) in 10 years. As many as 5 of these are ‘all-time-grossers’ (industry hits without inflation). However, only 3I made it till quarters …
With Salute, Osho and Mogul rumors already in the dustbin, it remains to seen what he does from here on. Whatever it is, it will probably be quite unique.
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October 19, 2018 at 9:52 PM
this is a very good summation of his career. I too agree that 3 is his very best phase.
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October 19, 2018 at 10:02 PM
Thanks.
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October 20, 2018 at 11:44 PM
3 is the best phase but realistically it is just 3-4 years max excluding sabbatical, not really a 6 year period. Super efficiency.
TZP 2006
Fanaa 2006
RDB 2005
MP 2004
DCH 2001
Lagaan 2001
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October 19, 2018 at 11:18 PM
It is like teenage, youthful stage, middleage.
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October 20, 2018 at 4:22 AM
Yes, very much agree with this summation, Marcus. I too think the period between Lagaan to TZP is his best phase, in terms of the quality of his films.
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October 20, 2018 at 3:55 AM
So the little farmer has won. Badhai ho. RDB came by default. The strongest contenders were Dangal, 3 Idiots and QSQT.
Congrats are due to DJ and his gang too for starring in RDB and getting no holds barred support from one and only Saket.
Felt sorry for TZP, JJWS, Talaash and others.
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October 20, 2018 at 3:59 AM
My final 4 would have been Lagaan, QSQT, 3 Idiots and Rang De Basanti and the final QSQT Vs Lagaan but I still don’t know which film I’d would pick as winner…
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October 20, 2018 at 4:12 AM
Between DCH and RDB, I would have gone for DCH.
Between JJWS and QSQT, JJWS.
Dangal and Lagaan, Dangal.
Talaash and Sarfarosh, Talaash.
TZP and Secret Superstar, TZP.
3 Idiots and AAA, 3 Idiots.
Fanaa and Earth, Fanaa.
PK and Rangeela, PK.
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October 20, 2018 at 4:24 AM
In the end, Lagaan would’ve won anyway 🙂
So we have reached right conclusion here.
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October 20, 2018 at 6:43 AM
http://www.rediff.com/movies/2006/jan/26rdb.htm
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October 20, 2018 at 7:25 AM
So, after a gap of 12 years I watched RDB again (it’s on Netflix) and to my own relief, it still packs a great wallop. Some Random thoughts strewn together…
1) The cinematography, which I had much admired in 2006, is (I’m happy to note) simply astounding. The extreme, super-close-ups in the sepia-toned flashbacks automatically give them a sense of immediacy and dread. Also, a ghostly, otherwordly feel (watch the Jalianwalla Bagh sequence, which is shot as straight out of a horror movie). These scenes are the most powerful in the film, even if they are a bit romaticized. Truly visceral filmmaking, this. Towards the end of the film, the same technique is employed to frame the protagonists, indicating that they have essentially merged together.
2) The inter-twinning of the narratives is again quite brilliant. The seguing from sepia tones to the present (and vice-versa) is smooth and moves the narrative forward without drawing unnecessary attention to itself. Quite early into the film, this mode starts to feel most natural, which is a quite an achievement. Mehra has tried the same technique in Mirzya, which by way of narrative structure, is RDB’s heir descendent.
3) The performances, almost evenly, are quite good. Atul Kulkarni is probably the most impressive of the lot. Sharman Joshi is such an underrated actor (watch how he skillfully moves in and out of comic scenes and tearful melodrama, without skipping a beat) and a special shout-out to Aamir who has given one of his more nuanced performances in the film. I could recall his breakdown scene before watching the film and again, he’s quite brilliant in it. I much prefer Aamir in serious roles (as opposed to comedy), he seems to find his groove much easily in this mode. Kunal Kapoor is a bit weak but Sidharth is quite good. In many ways, RDB is actually Sidharth’s film! Even in the narrative, Mehra is shown to be a bigger fan of Bhagat Singh than Chandrashekhar Azad. Kudos to Aamir for not letting his ego get in the way!
4) As I’ve mentioned previously, this is a highly intimate, personal film. In one of the film’s contemplative moments, DJ (Aamir Khan) reminisces about life and how it ends once a person is out of college, which is why he hasn’t moved on even after graduating 5 years ago. That scene, I can bet, is Mehra talking about himself. The film’s setting, which is also Mehra’s hometown (he would go on to pen a moving love letter to the city later in Delhi 6), the Delhi University campus (Mehra’s almamater) and even the overt nationalism (symbolized by Madhavan) is all Mehra pouring his heart out. One can certainly feel how much it means to him, as a person, not just as a filmmaker.
5) The politics in the film is still confused even though the decision to murder the Defense Minister comes out quite organically in the film. It’s a mirror image of the scene where Azad & Durga Bhabhi contemplate the next step after Lala Lajpat Rai’s killing during a non-violent protest (itself mirrored in the candle light vigil scene). The line uttered by Durga Bhabhi (Soha Ali Khan) “Maar Daalo Usko” (spoken twice) comes as a hammer blow and fits right into the universe of the film. One can wrestle with the film’s politics later, but during the course of the narrative, it does make perfect sense.
6) I quite liked the part when after the murder, the tables are turned when the nation starts celebrating his demise as martyrdom. That one act of impulsiveness causes a bigger problem than the one preceded it! And for the first time, we see in-fighting amongst the group of friends, who are otherwise closer to each other than even their own families.
7) Which brings me to the final point (for now). The male-bonding seen in this film is quite unique — they seem to co-inhabit a space where everything is sufficient by itself. Be it their overt displays of hedonism in the beginning or the grief caused by a personal loss, they act like one soul, separated in the physical realm. Not even wives or girlfriends can enter this zone. In the first few scenes of the film, DJ & Sukhi (Sharman Joshi) are shown in a beer-drinking contest, on top of a high-rise tower while Sidharth is shown lighting a cigarette. He looks up at them and nonchalantly utters the famous words Nautanki Saala — a clear nod to Sholay, another film about male bonding (ahem, among other things).
TLDR; This is still a great watch. One of the great cinematic achievements in Hindi Cinema’s history!
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October 20, 2018 at 7:34 AM
Fantastic note Saket.. I will be revisiting it soon myself along with Lagaan.
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October 20, 2018 at 7:45 AM
Thanks, Satyam. I will be watching Lagaan too.
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October 20, 2018 at 7:53 AM
I watched RDB yesterday and agree to your thoughts here. On the minister murder it makes sense in the movie’s universe but I feel Karan killing his father is way OTT. And in any case it’s not a solution at all. The protests made more sense. Can’t argue with anything else you’ve said – as filmmaking goes it’s superb, it’s a fabulous film.
Just watched Madness in the Dessert…@Saket if you haven’t watched it already – I think it does justice to how technical and complex Lagaan as a film was to make.
And soon enough I will watch Lagaan!
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October 22, 2018 at 4:50 PM
Karan killing his father does make some sense, at least. The entire group of friends are closer to each other compared to their own families. DJ is a visitor in his mother’s Dhaba. Karan internally hates his father. Aslam doesn’t like his family either. The other two friends (Lakshman & Sukhi) are not even given the luxury of having a family.
So within this brotherhood, if their dear friend (Madhavan) was killed because of Karan’s father, he had to be killed. It was only a question of who would kill him. In the scene preceding Karan’s meeting with his Dad, DJ drops him at his house and asks him whether he understood what needs to be done. That was in reference to his father’s murder. Within this brotherhood, familial ties are not that important. Besides, this is after the group has completely turned into revolutionaries.
There is an interesting subtext about Waheeda Rahman’s character too. When she goes into coma, the group of friends decide to become revolutionaries. When they are all killed, after their act of revolution is complete, she comes out of coma.
Does she represent the ‘spirit’ of India? One that can only be awakened through sacrifice?
I think there is a lot of hidden and not-so-hidden symbolism in this film.
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October 22, 2018 at 5:13 PM
It makes some sense but it’s quite extreme. Karan hates his father for sure but actually pulling the trigger seems far fetched. Sure he’s a very corrupt guy who doesn’t really show true affection for Karan but he’s hardly seen to blame Ajay for irresistible flying like the minister – he’s more seen to suggest to place blame on Karan’s friends to save him and maybe that was motive enough for Karan.
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October 20, 2018 at 9:12 AM
great points.
Talking about the cinematography, I loved the transition of colours between the present and past to depict the moods and different times, especially in the beginning of the scene depicting the Kakori kaand. Mehra revelled in showing his love for visceral art.
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October 22, 2018 at 12:34 PM
Thanks, tonymontana. Agree on the cinematography bit.
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October 20, 2018 at 7:53 AM
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/bollywood/photo-features/rang-de-basanti-lesser-known-facts/rang-de-basanti-lesser-known-facts/photostory/50717308.cms
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October 20, 2018 at 11:47 AM
Lagaan is far more than just some entertainer. The whole British Raaj backdrop, oppression, opportunism & colonial rule is somewhat dealt with. Gauri’s jealousy, Elizabeths support, Lakha’s treachery all adds different colours to the entire experience.
Comparing it with RDB they have some similarities. Both have a formation of a group to challenge the system on the back of a crisis but Lagaan instead of blood resolves in a bat and ball game. Only halfway through Lagaan but the humour is brilliant. Little things like when the umpire points to the sky and villagers look to the cloud, how Rahman’s background score is so in sync with certain emotions of characters like Gauri’s jealousy. It’s really fun to watch this after so many years and is absolutely my winner by a distance!
[Only QSQT could convince me otherwise, for quite personal reasons].
Lagaan can still represent any society today. The abuse of power, the less fortunate/innocent trying to find their standing in the world, fighting for or against any form of power abuse and how one or many pull together to work hard and change their fortunes.
Rahman’s soundtrack is quite perfect here, he’s limited to a folksy, traditional route but delivers. I doubt there is a more important (not influential) film this side of the millennium for Bollywood. I’d only mention Bahubali 2 here as that film will be influential and important as is evident already.
I guess Rang De Basanti is more daring but I don’t think Lagaan is any less ambitious. Madness in the Dessert is a good watch to vanquish that theory.
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October 20, 2018 at 1:28 PM
great to get all these notes on both Lagaan and RDB. Looking forward to both. And yes that documentary is worth watching.
By the way if you’re looking to go a bit off-beat check out Masaan. Also on Netflix. It’s one of my very favorite contemporary Indian films (of any kind).
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October 20, 2018 at 1:30 PM
Will check it out tomorrow!
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October 21, 2018 at 8:06 AM
Masaan was incredibly moving. Quite depressing at times, shed a tear. Slice of real life. Great performances, did see it coming that Shaalu was going to be that body the moment it came into the scene…had a feeling that love story (really sweet) would end with tragedy the moment Deepak decided to end the poetry on his recording with a QSQT song.
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October 21, 2018 at 8:30 AM
wonderful you saw it.. and very nice comment as well..
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October 21, 2018 at 9:22 AM
Any other recommendations from Netflix? Hindi films?
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October 21, 2018 at 9:41 AM
along the same offbeat lines Udaan and Kashyap’s Ugly are worth watching. Like the former a lot, the latter somewhat less so. If you’re looking for a good atmospheric mystery check out Wind River. Also enjoyed Drishyam. Not sure if you ever saw Madras Cafe but this is worthwhile as well.
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October 21, 2018 at 3:20 PM
Watched Ugly. Didn’t really like it. Took so long to get to that conclusion.
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October 21, 2018 at 5:05 PM
I liked it more than you but I do agree that it was a bit meandering as a film. Needed to be tighter.
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October 20, 2018 at 4:00 PM
Incidentally I think Lagaan has a very good soundtrack. Now RDB is very strong, probably stronger than Lagaan but somehow it’s never been a favorite of mine. I’d take Lagaan, MP, D6, Rockstar (this in some ways might be most directly comparable to RDB) over it (to name some major examples). D6 I think is Rahman’s best in Hindi. In the same sense I’ve never loved the Guru soundtrack proportionate to its merits (though RDB is stronger than this). I’d take both Yuva and Raavan over it. But I prefer all the soundtracks I’ve mentioned so far over JA. The only other Rahman in Hindi that I like less than everyone else is Rangeela (I’d easily take RDB over this).
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October 20, 2018 at 4:05 PM
Dil Se? I love the Lagaan soundtrack. Even Guru.
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October 20, 2018 at 4:40 PM
Yes forgot Dil Se. That’s fantastic too.
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October 20, 2018 at 4:44 PM
On that note I think Swades is an underrated album.
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October 20, 2018 at 4:58 PM
Taal is pretty solid too, though seems to be easily forgotten.
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October 20, 2018 at 5:55 PM
yes forgot about this one too. And you’re right, relative to its strengths it’s the most forgotten of Rahman’s major Hindi soundtracks. But certainly it’s a strong one.
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October 21, 2018 at 1:37 AM
1947-Earth?? In my view Rehman’s most underrated album!!
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October 21, 2018 at 3:07 AM
Taal is easily among one of my most favourite albums. Hariharan’s rendition of ‘Mere pass hai tu’ transports you in to a different universe even after all these years, just pure magic!!
RDB album is full of inventive tunes yet a popular one at that as not only songs but it has one of the most powerful BGMs ever!! And not to forget the contribution of Prasoon Joshi who penned such innovative lyrics for RDB ranging from goosebumps raising luka chhipi to the then youth anthem ‘Masti ki paathshala’ to soothing ‘tu bin bataye’ to Punjabi title song to eternal ‘Roobaru’ to rebellious ‘khalbali hai khabali’ to devotional ‘ Ek Onkar’ to call to action songs in ‘ Khoon chala & lalkaar’!! What amazing versatility in one album from Rehman & Prasoon Joshi, just mesmerising!!
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October 20, 2018 at 6:13 PM
Just got done watching Lagaan again after probably a decade! This movie still resonates as you mentioned…I still had goosebumps throughout the movie. I remember watching this movie in the states and the vibe in the crowd was electric! I forgot how touching some scenes were and still tugged at my emotions (especially the ‘kachra’ scene).
The only real flaw now it sticks out more than ever is Elizabeth falling for Bhuvan…there’s really no chemistry there and it’s just not convincing enough for me. She comes off as silly. Overall, Lagaan is an all-time classic, it can definitely stand the test of time. RDB is next!
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October 20, 2018 at 2:42 PM
interestingly, the chocolate boy of QSQT has transformed himself so overpoweringly post-Lagaan that he has hardly done any full-blue romantic film!!! (romance was part of Fanaa, Ghajini, RDB, 3I, PK…but they were not full-on romantic films (except Fanaa maybe)) and yet this man delivers 100/200/300/350 cr films….and no. of genres he has tried are all different post-Lagaan..
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October 20, 2018 at 10:07 PM
I am glad the way this world cup (right before TOH release) had shaped up. People are discussing Lagaan and RDB with passion again. TOH may turn out to be no great cinema, but just another entertainer. Yet it is designed to complete Aamir’s trilogy of hit anti-colonialism films after Lagaan/RDB. And expecting it to get the job done (which MP had failed to complete). I have no doubts whatsoever that TOH will take a great opening over the first 4-day weekend (just the way MP had opened). However, the challenge is to see through a good follow-up trending over the next 3 open weeks – and thats pretty much the ambition here.
[ A good film (IF it happens) will be a bonus here, given the director and the production house. ]
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October 20, 2018 at 10:10 PM
MP had released before RDB and was truly Aamir’s follow-up to Lagaan, which turned out to be a disappointment of sorts.
Btw, to be precise I hope TOH does at least 2.5X its opening 4-day weekend haul by the end of its run. That is the minimal trending we need for a film like this.
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October 21, 2018 at 7:03 AM
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October 22, 2018 at 8:13 AM
Continuing on from my previous points on RDB, here are a few more random thoughts:
1) As pointed out by many people, the integration of music into the narrative is quite seamless. The film uses a modern approach to musical numbers and makes them run in the background (there is no lip-syncing involved). At least 2 songs (the title track and Khoon Chala) use the strobe camera effect (images that have a deliberate lag introduced) with polar opposite backgrounds. The first one is a celebratory number while the second one is about state violence against its own citizens. Perhaps emphasizing the heightened nature of emotions involved in both cases. The musical numbers, otherwise, act like a film-within-a-film. They are self-contained and even though they have a backstory and a forward-looking narrative hook, they can be enjoyed very much on their own. Viewed independently, they are gorgeously choreographed, helped immensely by Rahman’s soul-lifting score.
2) The elegiac coda section, involving the five friends, feels like a Terrence Malick inspired scene. A take on Malick’s signature shot – close-up of a hand being held out lightly, touching blades of grass (in this case, flowers), it’s a nice, feel-good, romantic touch to end the film. The freeze-frame sequence, when the commandos enter the room where DJ & Karan are located (the scene just stops there; no ensuing bullets or bloodshed is shown) is inspired by the closing scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. From Terrence Mallick to Butch Cassidy, it’s an eclectic mix of cinema inspirations.
3) I’m already spoken about the male-bonding within the film, but within the group itself, Mehra takes extra care to emphasize the relationship between Atul Kulkarni and Kunal Kapoor’s characters. One is shown as a right-wing Hindu activist (presumably belonging to the RSS cadre) and the second one belongs to a highly orthodox (Hindu-despising) Muslim family – in effect, mirroring their backgrounds. In the flashback/parallel narrative, they both are shown to be completely liberal, eating together from the same plate (playing Bismil & Ashfaqullah Khan). They eventually reach the same state of brotherly love in the main narrative as well, dying together, holding each other’s hand. Mehra identifies himself as a centrist figure, who rebukes both Hindu and Muslim orthodoxy, and in a marvelous scene, Aslam (Kunal Kapoor) is shown rejecting his family’s views, proclaiming loudly Dum Ghuta Hai Mera Yahaan before running away to his room… and when he opens the door, Ashfaqullah Khan emerges on the other side, rejoining his band of brothers. In Mehra’s definition of brotherhood, religion is completely rejected or at the least, is ignored.
4) Sue’s (Alice Patton) obsession with her Grandfather’s (who is shown to be obsessed with the heroic figures) memoirs and the parallel/flashback narrative, which involves the same characters playing out their counterparts, gives rise to an interesting possibility – of a perpetual time-loop (or incarnation, if you will) running in the movie-verse, very much like the one shown in Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining. Sue acts as the enabler, but it is the destiny of these five souls to eternally sacrifice themselves for a unifying cause. Perhaps Mehra can think of a sequel that explores this idea in more depth later. God knows, we need this kind of cinema to keep the fire burning.
I’ll stop now, but there is a lot that I could still say about RDB!
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October 22, 2018 at 9:59 AM
Another superb note Saket.. I revisited Lagaan over the weekend (will do the same with RDB). I hadn’t seen the film in a very long time but it was as fresh and exciting as the first time around. But more importantly I at least found further confirmation for many of the things I was arguing for. Specially on the film’s visuals (the palette, the lighting choices, the epic landscape feel at certain points) but it’s also a rather dynamic film, this last a quality that Gowariker has never been able to replicate in any of his following films (though I haven’t seen Mohenjodaro) with the exception to some extent of the second half of KHJJS. This is instantly obviously in the first 10 min or so of the film. There’s a flurry of activity, people exiting and entering the frame, columns (soldiers, horses) entering the foreground and vice versa, just a sense of constant movement. Because the landscape here is such an open space (barring a few hills that the film only uses at certain points), including the village, you really need people cutting through the spaces constantly, in a way making them more geometric than would otherwise be the case. And then the constant interplay between these somewhat wider shots and the more cropped ones and then in turn the close-ups. Similarly people scurrying around at various point, usually in a state of great animation even when they’re not. The film really creates a certain energy this way. The model in some sense is all those dance forms where the dancers are constantly moving across space and among other things making it definite for the viewer, giving it coordinates if you will. And I’d stress again that the landscape doesn’t offer these opportunities otherwise barring some framing shots early on that are ‘epic’ (horizon lines, monuments in the distance, but these geometric shots are few and far between).
Along the same lines the British cantonment area is also more open space. You don’t get the interiors as such. Here the film does not rely as much on movement (barring the cricket sometimes observed from a distance) and rather on the inherently tense nature of various moments (the Raja being insulted and asked to eat meat, the villagers spying, sometimes being caught, Aamir himself in his introduction with the deer sequence and so on… as an aside I’d say this film thematized ‘looking’, spying etc a great deal, itself a fortuitous choice for a work so much about the colonial gaze as well as the native’s, this whole aspect has been superbly handled). It’s an inspired ‘substitution’.
Even otherwise where the film offers obvious interest (and eventual excitement), as the training begins for the match, this too is something relatively hard to pull off. Because again these guys are simply practicing in the most rudimentary ways without any real well-defined playing grounds or cricket great. Comedy does part of the job in these sequences but again things have to be kept rolling along. Once more I’m not stressing the obvious. I’m just interested in how the director brings this script to life visually or how he solves the problem of relatively nondescript spaces by way of movement (incidentally not as much by the Mehra kind of editing which would be another way of approaching this challenge). Of course the limited shots where palace interiors are used also often involve movement (the ballad sequence, the spy from the village), even if the interiors being stately generate enough interest on their own, not least by way of contrast (these interiors punctuate that very barren ‘normative’ landscape of the film so infrequently).
The other point I’d make (responding to some here who had trouble with the British girl falling in love with Aamir) is that it is crucially a part of the film’s logic. Even at a very literal level various versions of Western ‘orientalism’ or a certain eroticization of the ‘East’ testify to a certain paradoxical desire that is experienced by the colonizer — on the one hand the new culture repels in all the obvious ways but equally it keeps drawing him (or her) in. Put differently there is an eroticization involved in such a gaze. The same on the native side in a very different sense. Even leaving this (very complicated theoretical field) aside the film’s tabular, fairy tale-like structure allows very easily for such an angle. It is utterly natural for the world of this film. This is already a kind of ‘neverland’ world, it’s not meant to be a fictional period piece that is somehow faithfully recreating colonial realities. The film does all of this very conscious-like. Bachchan’s voice-over presents the story as a kind of ‘legend’ and even at the end there is the suggestion that despite being such an important bit of history Bhuvan has been lost to the pages of time. The mode here is apocryphal more than anything else.
Additionally I’d urge everyone to see Madness in the Desert (also on Netflix). I’d seen it before but I skimmed through most of it again. It’s a riveting documentary but equally it really establishes the ambition of this project and all its extraordinary challenges. It really illuminates the film specially since (and again this is a point I’ve insisted on for very long) so much of the history of this film is also part of a structural change in contemporary ‘Bollywood’. At the same time it hearkens to some epic period projects that Bombay more or less hadn’t touched in decades (with rare exceptions in between), films where the ‘impossible’ tales of production are part of the romance surrounding them. The documentary conveys profoundly the care that went into this project but also the improbable nature of embarking on it in the first place (Aamir’s initial dismissal of the script idea as silly to his gradual acceptance of it much later without still agreeing to do it and so on). This was that rare visionary moment that doesn’t occur that often in most contemporary industries (i.e. for productions of this scale). You either have big films made by the numbers (one sees this for instance in the ToH previews) or you have smaller films that might be very risky but obviously don’t involve the same costs or time commitments or logistical challenges. Lagaan is the kind of production that can easily ruin many careers. And it has happened many times in the past (in every industry). Once more the documentary captures all of this with vitality.
Finally I’d say that even as one can debate Lagaan’s ‘meaning’ in various ways perhaps the best way of summing up the film’s achievement is to suggest that it is really a purely cinematic film. In other words part of a relatively small list comprising films that have many strengths but are somehow also able to become more purely about the sheer joy of the medium rather than anything else. Not in the consumption, blockbuster sense of (manufactured) enjoyment but a more spontaneous kind where a film’s art seems almost as naturalistic as life. This latter is always a hard rhythm to find even in middle cinema but becomes so much more improbable for a film with its own epic registers. Lagaan has meaning but wears it lightly. It’s a deceptive films in more ways than one. It’s certainly an Indian commercial venture for the ages.
As an aside and getting back to RDB I think (and again in addition to some points I made in this context the other day) even the fact that Sue makes a documentary which in a way triggers the real narrative of RDB finds something of a precent in the British girl teaching the rules of the game to the villagers (without which they wouldn’t be able to proceed at all; at the very end Bhuvan acknowledges that he owes her a debt he can never forget). Aamir in any case, consciously or otherwise, recodes some of the Lagaan terrain in films like MP, RDB, and more recently Dangal. Differently, his career keeps returning to this foundational reinvention point in all sorts of ways. PK here is interestingly connected to this history but this would require a much longer note and this is already too long. Much as one could also say that DCH-3I offers a different sort of counterpoint to this strain.
As a further aside it certainly pleases the Desai fan in me immensely to see a lot of minorities take center-stage from the lower caste figure to the Muslim to the Sikh and of course all the other varied identities that are represented within the village. Admittedly some of this is stereotypical but again it is so in the Desai way. Even if such a move necessarily effaces much harsher realities it is in the service of a greater idealism or an imagining of the nation-state founded on such principles (Lagaan is of course about the coming-into-being of such a national identity but even this aspect isn’t exaggerated very much, the film ultimately respects its fable-like logic more than anything else).
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October 22, 2018 at 10:33 AM
Agree 100%…this film shows huge ambition. I think also when one juxtaposes this with the timeline shown in the documentary it’s very clear how much of a gamble this was. As much as things could be planned, the shooting was playing and tussling with the elements and sound. In fact anyone who is contemplating watching the film I would suggest the documentary instead first.
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October 22, 2018 at 12:28 PM
as an aside I’d say this film thematized ‘looking’, spying etc a great deal, itself a fortuitous choice for a work so much about the colonial gaze as well as the native’s, this whole aspect has been superbly handled). It’s an inspired ‘substitution’.
This is a superb comment, Satyam. Very astute observation.
I’m just interested in how the director brings this script to life visually or how he solves the problem of relatively nondescript spaces by way of movement (incidentally not as much by the Mehra kind of editing which would be another way of approaching this challenge)
The Mehra-like structure (or RDB’s structure, rather) will be out of place in such an ‘epic’ setting. The epic setting requires a certain fluidity of motion, a certain continuity, which can’t be established otherwise.
I agree with you on a lot of points, especially the cinematography, which is certainly excellent.
Looking forward to your comments on RDB!
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October 22, 2018 at 12:49 PM
“The Mehra-like structure (or RDB’s structure, rather) will be out of place in such an ‘epic’ setting. The epic setting requires a certain fluidity of motion, a certain continuity, which can’t be established otherwise.”
Thanks for the comment. I see where you’re coming from and agree completely. then again this is one of two possible pathways. One the one hand the epic landscape with a slower sense of time. The best example of this in Hindi cinema is Ghulami. It was Dutta’s misfortune that his sense of time was out of joint with that of his audience’s. Certainly in all those Rajasthan films (nothing really worked other than Ghulami). Of course you know who would have disagreed with everything we’ve just said in this regard right? Kurosawa! But on the other you have Kurosawa or the whole Western tradition which also inspired him and down to Sholay in Hindi cinema. Here of course you see the opposite. A very rapid sense of time combined with the same sort of landscape. Classically defined by the Ford film as the Stagecoach moment if you will. The stagecoach defining a somewhat blank desert landscape and a column of ‘Indians’ attacking it. Of course Ford loved his Monument Valley scenes. Kurosawa though remains the exemplary (and admittedly exceptional example). In Seven Samurai the editing moves at a furious pace. I think David Desser said of this film that there is more formalist mastery in any 4 min sequence of the film (in terms of variety or all the different things Kurosawa tries) than any other film he could think of. Interestingly late age Kurosawa becomes a much slower (again in terms of time) director on the same sort of landscape. My privileged example here would be Kagemusha. getting back to Lagaan I forgot to add this earlier but there is a whole series of tracking shots that the film relies on (this is especially evident in those opening segments), which ‘linearity’ again in this context helps to mark out space.
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October 22, 2018 at 10:03 AM
Speaking of Lagaan, here are a few random thoughts on the film:
1) I was wrong about the cinematography. It’s been 17 years since I last watched it (never had the urge to watch it even once for some reason) and my initial impressions are no longer valid. It’s absolutely gorgeous – with wide-sweeping, panoramic shots of the desert, it makes sense to compare this film to a Western (in a good way). In one scene during the cricket match, even the bells start tolling in the background, emphasizing the Hollywood Western influence. To be more precise, Lagaan’s Western influences can be traced back to old Hollywood, where there’s no room for gray – the latter being the domain of the revisionist Western (although Lagaan is a form of revisionist History, much like Tarantino’s Inglorious Basterds).
2) The cricket match, which forms the heart of the story, still works, and works quite well. With the stakes built-up so high (complete destruction for the rag-tag villagers in the form of a triple tax), it would take a completely heartless person to not cheer for the underdogs. The meta-references to actual cricket stories (Kachra = Bhagvat Chandrashekhar, Shane Warne’s ball of the century, the infamous Bodyline series, the last ball six) also work well and brought a smile to my face.
3) Coming to performances, this time around, I quite enjoyed Paul Blackthorne’s villainous act. The lip-smacking relish with which he conducts himself is a big plus. The supporting cast which includes names like Raghuveer Yadav and Akhilendra Mishra, also does well. Aamir has done a very good job himself. It should count among one of his better dramatic performances, even if some elements of his get-up don’t blend with the semi-realistic setup.
4) The Elizabeth-Bhuvan angle still defies logic. First of all, it seems like a convenient plot device – Elizabeth’s main role is to teach the villagers how to play cricket – when the Raja, being sympathetic himself, could have helped the villagers learn the game on his own. He is shown watching the game, which would indicate that he at least understands it. When Elizabeth is shown touching Bhuvan’s mother’s feet, before leaving Champaner, you start rolling your eyes. When Amitabh Bachchan’s voiceover informs us that Elizabeth does not marry for the rest of her life and lives like Krishna’s Radha incarnate, that becomes a gag-worthy moment. Like Kevin Costner’s character in Dances With Wolves, this transformation to the other side, deserves at least a deeper exploration. Not the cursory treatment it’s been meted out in this film.
5) This time around, the length does start to become a problem. Some of the songs could have been cut – and speaking of songs, the choreography seems a bit banal as well. We have supporting dancers in the background, doing their bit, in true Bollywood style. I wouldn’t call it a big minus, but it does seem unimaginative. Of course, this being a masala universe, one is free to ignore such details. The editing too could have been crispier. Some scenes are disjointed – the scene involving Lakha’s pardon by Bhuvan abruptly cuts into the second day of the cricket match. A minor transgression, but still.
6) The re-imagining of an ideal India (with caste differences eradicated & a single, unifying religious harmony present), fighting non-violently against its colonial rulers, in a Gandhian sort of way, is the appropriate motif of the story. As a meta-reference, this is the exact opposite path to the one employed in RDB, ironically the film Lagaan competed against, in this final. The masala registers that the film adopts hearkens back to old-school Bollywood whereas RDB adopts a more modern, hyper-realistic mode of filmmaking. It is perhaps appropriate that these two films squared off in the final, although my choice still remains RDB for reasons outlined elsewhere. Lagaan though, still represents a significant milestone in Hindi cinema, but it has certainly lost some of its original edge.
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October 22, 2018 at 10:24 AM
On 6) they are very much comparable.
I’d say on ‘edge’ that the real surprise in the film was always the cricket match and now upon revisiting, the build up to the match is more interesting. The match itself is a formality now. So that part of the film doesn’t excite as much as before but the documentary does help in appreciating how ‘tough’ it is to film sports. Respect for films like Lagaan & CDI is more as controlling ‘2’ elements like Dangal is much easier than trying to for example bowl a specific ball in a specific space to be hit in a specific way to be caught in a specific way. This is where technically filming this film is quite remarkable IMO. Across that terrain, they’ve built the whole village from scratch. The documentary kind of displayed a soft confidence that this film would be something quite special – the details of everything are too specific to ignore. And Gowariker really hasn’t produced anything as enjoyable and fun since.
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October 22, 2018 at 1:37 PM
Lagaan’s cinematography by Anil Mehta was top notch..It was mentioned in many of the reviewes @RT
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/lagaan_once_upon_a_time_in_india/reviews/
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October 22, 2018 at 2:46 PM
Having seen the film previously 17 years ago, I wasn’t really sure about its cinematography compared to RDB. I was sure about the latter though.
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October 22, 2018 at 1:17 PM
I will add that a rather acute failing of the masala universe is its treatment of women. In the masala-verse, one tends to see many wrongs being righted (the untouchable gets accepted by everyone; different religions co-exist harmoniously) but for women, it fails to even identify the problem. In light of the current #metoo movement, it becomes even more problematic. We see Gauri as a rather meek woman whose only hope is to get married to Bhuvan. Elizabeth too doesn’t see herself as completely independent. She’s either under the control of her brother or is shown to chain herself to an imaginary love affair.
In contrast, RDB doesn’t really have a love angle, at least not in the traditional sense. There is attraction between DJ and Sue but it’s rather superficial. DJ essentially remains in love with his core group of friends (Sue is shunted out of the group during the third act). In the climax, just before dying, DJ jokes about the color of his and Sue’s future children, rendering the whole relationship void*. The other love story in the film has a tragic end. It’s as if love and revolution can’t co-exist (1942 A Love Story offers a counterpoint to this).
* One can argue that making a joke out of anything is DJ’s defense mechanism. But even this defense mechanism reveals a rather superficial attitude to love.
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October 22, 2018 at 1:49 PM
I agree with your point as a larger critique. But I’ll nonetheless ‘object’ in this sense. I don’t see Lagaan as a masala movie. Leaving this aside Elizabeth keeps subverting her brother’s authority at every turn, even after he discovers what she’s been doing. She really defies him openly beyond that point. And of course she’s actively involved in the training of one team. Gauri admittedly is a more traditional type. On the other hand this village doesn’t seem particularly repressive when it comes to women. Gauri seems to spend a fair bit of time with Bhuvan without there being a scandal of any sort. Again I don’t disagree with your point in a way — Lagaan isn’t pushing boundaries on any of these social issues (gender relations, caste — some platitudes notwithstanding, religion etc). But I don’t see this as a problem within its universe. Much as I also disagree with many pieces that suggest Lagaan doesn’t get into how the Rajas were often equally rapacious (though there is a scene where in the midst of all this the Raja is absurdly having his portrait made) etc. Once more I don’t think Lagaan is a film that needs to do this.
RDB though is a whole different ballgame. This is a very contemporary film dealing with a very different world. The bar for this film is much higher. I don’t want to say too much more about specifics here without revisiting it but note how this too is a film about male bonding not too different Lagaan. The females in this universe are usually catalysts for something to happen or to enable the ‘band of brothers’. They are sometimes commentators on the men of their stories but there are always limits beyond which they cannot go. The narratives are set up in this way. Another reason why I like Dil Se so much. Here the male protagonist through all his obsession is always following the female.. to the very end. She’s the central figure ‘causing’ everything. Meanwhile even the Zinta character is quite spunky and deconstructive in her own way. Getting back to RDB this is the central point I keep repeating. It’s a very strong film at many levels but after one is done with all the ‘discussion’ in it I don’t believe there is anything very radical being advanced by the end. This applies to gender relations as well. On that note it’s not clear why there is a white girl here at all? Why couldn’t there have been an Indian girl doing the same documentary? In Lagaan the colonizer is inescapable. But this angle didn’t need to be introduced into RDB. However given that she is she is very much an Elizabeth-like figure. More able to identify with the natives and so on. Now I have often questioned LRB also for being a political bland film but I mean this more in a symptomatic way (LRB or RDB do so well precisely because they do not challenge their audience in authentic ways on questions of politics). But otherwise LRB is a Lagaan kind of film, a kind of Disney tale where it doesn’t have to engage in serious questioning, with or without Gandhi. RDB though takes this up as its projects. The stakes are much higher here and the ‘solution’ too compromised.
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October 22, 2018 at 2:24 PM
On that note it’s not clear why there is a white girl here at all? Why couldn’t there have been an Indian girl doing the same documentary?
The burden of guilt (and obsession) is passed on from the Grandfather to the white girl. She’s also shown to be a journalist and sees a good story.
Also in RDB, Sue is shunted from the film’s final chapter but Sonia (Soha Ali Khan) remains aligned with the group’s plans. She, in fact, instigates both the murders (Saunders, as Durga Bhabhi; the Defense Minister as Sonia), so she isn’t just incidental to the plot.
Finally, I do think Lagaan is an example of a masala movie — a mishmash of genres, with conventional song and dance routines. It doesn’t have a traditional action element in it, but its substitute (the cricket match) makes up for it.
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October 22, 2018 at 2:44 PM
The re-incarnation angle starts making more sense…to tie everything up neatly.
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October 22, 2018 at 2:56 PM
(though there is a scene where in the midst of all this the Raja is absurdly having his portrait made)
That is actually a good scene — pointing to the Raja’s fake pride in his ‘image’ which is drawn to be stately, but in reality, his stature is not that different in front of the Raj, compared to his subjects.
The meat eating scene is a bit off though. Not many Rajputs are known to be vegetarians, much less the Royals of Rajasthan.
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October 22, 2018 at 3:06 PM
good points all..
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October 30, 2018 at 6:27 PM
I didn’t follow this game anymore because it was too hard to choose. Many of Aamir’s movies are equally intense in my heart and often they are not comparable because of the genre. I think his best movies are TZP and LAGAAN, closely followed by RDB, Sarfarosh, Talaash, DCH, Rangeela etc, about 12 movies are on the same level for me.
LAGAAN is the biggest thing he ever did and the most beautiful movie. I cried from the opening credits and long afterwards, simply because it is such a beautiful film. It’s an exhilaration full of beguiling beauty.
It’s tight between both films, but I would choose TZP just above it. It has a magical quality, hypnotic. I was so trapped that there weren’t even tears. Aamir’s most important and influential film. I have such a child and I didn’t think it was possible that these things could be authentically portrayed in a film. Not only the child, but also all the helplessness around it, the way to deal with it… I showed TZP to many people and this story (and how it is told) does incredible things with them. It is the work that moves (or can move most) inside. And it is the film I distribute to Europeans who are caught in clichés about Indian films!
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October 30, 2018 at 6:43 PM
Tom – we just want your pick between 3 Idiots and Dangal 😉
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October 30, 2018 at 7:18 PM
They’re general thoughts. LAGAAN has won, I read at the beginning of the topic.
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June 21, 2021 at 7:39 AM
Still one of the most entertaining threads ever on this blog. Pure gold
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