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249 Responses to “Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Se & Rakta Charitra 2, Break Ke Baad & Guzaarish (ongoing) & more box office gossip!”
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey opened to extremely poor houses at multiplexes around the country. The single screen response is likely to be no better apart from possibly the Bengal area.
A prime multiplex like PVR Chandigarh took an opening of just 22% on the first show while other majority of multiplexes were even lower. The opening of the film is around 10-20% depending on location.
Lack of promotion or good music don’t know this one deserves better.
The kind of reviews it is getting it might go Swades/TLOBS way….not good at the BO but will be considered a classic later…
I actually think the number on the Guzaarish weekend was a bit high given there was a negligible jump over the weekend. Doubt it did more than 20 crores or so. But the issue here is that with Guzaarish you give it the kindest possible commentary, the highest possible number. Even when it turns out to be a complete disaster you’d never get this from the commentary! With KHJJS the same sources will go in the opposite direction. The numbers will be made slightly lower where possible, the commentary will be very harsh. In terms of whether it will do better than Guzaarish or not over the week I think this should be clear by tomorrow. Again assuming that sites like BOI don’t keep the Fri number extraordinarily low. They played dirty with Paa for example.
Of course we always knew this film would face a very uphill task at the box office. But this does not mean that dishonest reporting shouldn’t be pointed out. Specially given the track record of some of these folks in the past.
I was surprised actually.. wasn’t expecting these sorts of reviews.. they’ve been quite positive on the whole.. on the box office this too was not unexpected but again Sat will make it clear whether this film has a chance or not. And obviously one will have to cut through the BOI stuff or whatever even at that point.
by the way when you ‘court’ the media (to use a euphemism) there are certain advantages. Even a film doesn’t work you get universal praise for your performance. The thing is that I blame the Bachchans for not doing certain things right on the marketing front (ironically there was no such problem with Paa, a film where they did everything or rather Abhishek took care of everything) but I cannot hold it against them for not playing ball with the media given the (and to be candid) corruption this entails. Some fans would be quite shocked to discover what some of their favorite stars are upto in this sense. It’s an easy way to profit by a system that’s just diseased. Very few avoid the temptation.
The kind of response that you want where everyone praises the film and the performance and is truthful about the box office didn’t even happen with Guru! Didn’t happen with BnB. How likely is to happen with any other film. Barring Dostana where Johar had something to do with it. People don’t realize this but even in terms of performance this is one of the best reviews Abhishek ever got leaving aside Guru or Yuva! The only way this picture changes without playing the media game is if Abhishek has successive hits or increases his success ratio drastically. At that point the media eventually succumbs. But take Aamir. It took the media Ghajini for them to start calling him the top star. This after the extraordinary critical and commercial success he had in the preceding years. In any case these are just the facts when it comes to Abhishek. There has been no film of his (NONE!) since ’05 where the media/trade have been on board completely in terms of the reality of the box office. Hits or flops the picture is distorted beyond recognition. KHJJS offers an easy target anyway!
It’s hard to know what to expect…on the whole the responses seem to be good but those aggressively low ratings from Raja Sen, Anupama Chopra and Nahata are kind of scary. Of course with Raja Sen and Nahata this doesn’t mean squat, but still. I don’t mind a flawed movie but a boring movie is the kiss of death.
Incidentally, this clip does more to suggest a sense of “energy” in the narrative than the actual promotions!
B.O. update: Cold wave grips box-office, new releases open poor
– By Taran Adarsh, December 3, 2010 – 20:41 IST
It getting worse! Or, perhaps, the box-office continues to be as unpredictable as ever, recording robust business in one week and generating dismal returns in the subsequent week. The three new releases – KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY, RAKHT CHARITRA 2 and PHAS GAYE RE OBAMA – opened to extremely poor houses across the nation. The occupancy at cineplexes was as low as 10% to 15% [at places, even lower], which only added to the woes of a crest-fallen industry that is reeling from financial setbacks since the past few weeks. The interesting part is that the three films belong to different genres and weren’t competing with one another for eyeballs and footfalls at cineplexes, yet the numbers were shockingly low.
KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY, which has won rave reviews, would require a massive pick-up in business over the weekend. RAKHT CHARITRA 2 hasn’t generated the numbers at single screens, although the general consensus is that the second part is better than the first. PHAS GAYE RE OBAMA, which has had a controlled releases [mainly plexes], should show an upward trend gradually, since the word of mouth is strong. Here’s hoping the scenario improves on Saturday and Sunday. Meanwhile, the Hollywood release, NARNIA 3, recorded better figures than Hindi films.
Hi Satyam, I assume that you are refering to Hritik’s recent adulation in Guzaarish by your comment on “courting the media” are unfair. If you care to look at twitter or facebook or any other social media people have appreciated his acting even while criticising the movie. It’s too early yet but still have not seen that kind of response for Abhi’s acting in KHJJS or even in his earlier films. Your attitude is like an ostrich’s refusing to lift its head out of the sand. Let me clarify, incase you think me part of anti Bacchan brigade, i am agreat fan of Amitabh and think Abhi to be a good actor. Infact must among the minority who liked him in both D6 and Jhoom Baraber Jhoom.
I was referring to a number of stars with that comment. And I don’t say this without a factual basis. But what appears to be the case is often very different from what ‘is’.
Secondly it’s not just about this kind of compromise and corruption. It’s also about ideological investment in certain kinds of films and projects. Incidentally I am quite consistent on this score. When Abhishek was being praised a lot for Dostana I attributed it to Johar’s media ‘contacts’. Not because I didn’t think he was good here but that he never gets such press otherwise (unless it’s a Guru or something). On Paa too I said (including recently) that this was a film the media liked but also ‘wanted’ to like. Abhishek was mostly praised a lot here which too surprised me. I tend to choose my words carefully and in any case never make claims that I don’t believe have a certain factual basis to them. There is such compromise and corruption in the film media it’s not even funny. With Abhishek though even accounting for all these factors there is often a certain narrative that develops online at the very least that bears no relation to reality. Again I could offer a number of examples. So if 6 out of 10 reviews praise him for a film it suddenly becomes a ‘no one has liked him’ deal! Yeah there are some stars who get close to 100% for their performances. Shahrukh in MNIK, Hrithik in Guzaarish are two examples. Those will never be my standards for performance. Of course it’s not just about Abhishek. Aamir in his career has rarely got those kinds of reviews!
Re: “I was referring to a number of stars with that comment. And I don’t say this without a factual basis. But what appears to be the case is often very different from what ‘is’..”
What’s to even debate here? When even political journalists are corrupted, how much more corruption must there be in the film media, where every media outlet has even more lax standards of reporting, fact-checking, etc. Even apart from that, if one goes by word on the street it has long been known that film journos are often paid off in one way or another (some by money; some by access to celebrities/parties/glamor; etc.), it’s like the casting couch, everyone knows that it occurs.
Satyam you did not get my point. I was not refering at all to the media or reviewers. They can be biased but what about the general public who is facebook and twitter happy. I was talking about their reactions not the media. One explaination for this could be that SRK and Hritik have a larger fanbase who tweet but from viewer responses you can make out that a lot of people liked Hritik’s performance even among the miniscule numbers who saw Guzaarish.
just because it’s twitter or facebook doesn’t mean people are completely neutral. You go to Bachchan’s blog and there isn’t one person who will not praise the performance of any film starring either father or son! Without knowing who’s tweeting what it’s hard to tell anything other than overall positivity or negativity. Is Abhishek being praised like Guru or Dostana for KHJJS? No! Is he being praised like SRK in MNIK or Hrithik in Guzaarish? No! But here’s the deal, SRK gets praised in everything from KKHH to MNIK, it’s only a matter of degree. Hrithik is meanwhile considered fantastic in everything from Krrish to JA to Guzaarish. The point I’m trying to make is that with certain stars the criticism (positive) is formulaic. But this also ‘forms’ opinion. Most people are not willing to diss a performance that everyone claims to have liked. With someone like Abhishek the ‘resistance’ for all the reasons I’ve got into many times before is highest. He has to do a Guru before everyone praises him. Or else something like Paa or Dostana where the media finds it easy to support him on other grounds. But the online world whether on social networking sites or on blogs is actually the most partisan out there. It’s become so toxic where people simply want films that don’t star their favorites to flop and by and large all criticism is directed to this end. Similarly whatever the media does or does not do it is even more distorted online. For example if you picked up major reviews of SR you’d see very many where Abhishek was given as much credit as Bachchan, occasionally even more. But when this was ‘relayed’ online it became a ‘hey it’s only Bachchan’ deal. Why? because people thought the film would work more than it did and the partisans just didn’t want to give Abhishek any credit. When Bachchan’s around even the fans submit to this blackmail because they accept as a matter of faith that no one can ever be better than Bachchan in any situation whatsoever. When SR didn’t work much then it was suddenly an Abhishek deal! Similarly among the very mainstream major publication reviewers D6 did quite decently or even better as did Abhishek. But this wasn’t what people were saying on blogs. Take KHJJS now. Lots of positive reviews. I am not writing in the media that it’s getting rave reviews. The HT guy or Taran are doing so and the media doesn’t generally favor ABhishek! But a few negative or so-so ones comes in and suddenly the online world explodes. The very very best reviewed movies on allbollywood never did higher than 78%-81%. And these were rare. Usually you got to the lower 70s even for very well reviewed films. In other words you have 20% either disliking the very best films or considering them no more than so-so even when this film is RDB or TZP or whatever. For a Gowariker film on this subject the reviews for KHJJS are actually remarkably good. Yes the negative ones are sometimes too negative but this too happens. With other stars no one gets into this too much. With Abhishek it becomes a big deal. And again there is just too much partisanship online. On twitter and elsewhere 90% of people if not more are simply out there to make partisan points. And usually the box office failure or success of a film is enough for them to swing one way or the other.
Note, I am not saying everyone loves all these Abhishek films and performances and the media makes or breaks them. Absolutely not. I’ve blamed the audience more often than not on this score. But one also cannot be naive about what happens in the media/trade but also online. Those folks are not neutral by any stretch of the imagination. Incidentally I don’t mind negative pieces at all, whether it’s KHJJS or any other film. But the criticism should be ‘literate’. I’ve said this for years and years. Finally on the box office some of us here including myself were not expecting anymore than what is happening in terms of the Fri start. But this does not mean that I will accept the blatant differences in commentary from a BOI or whoever when it comes to KHJJS vs Guzaarish or indeed other such comparisons. Whether the film will pick up over the weekend or not remains to be seen but the greater issue is whether it will be honestly reported either way. The past doesn’t give one much cause for hope in this regard!
Also i have been hearing from day one itself how Guzaarish has Bombed low collections, etc. But in NCR region, National capital region , where I live, it is still playing in several theaters with 3-4 shows daily, more than both BKB and Harry Potter. Media has been equally unkind to GUzaarish and instrumental in wrong reporting of its performance.
You’re completely wrong on this Sheetal. The media has been extremely kind to this film. This should have been called a disaster on Sat when there was no pickup pretty much. But it wasn’t. On day 1 they weren’t saying some of the stuff about it that they’re saying on KHJJS! Throughout week 1 they kept treating it with kid gloves. Taran pretends it dropped drastically in week 2. But week 1 was already miserable! BOI again tried to sugarcoat is as much as possible. Again with the rest of the media they quietly called it a flop and moved on. Consider this — compared to the Guzaarish collections D6 or Raavan were hits. I am not exaggerating much here! But every major Abhishek release that flops provokes either a massive reaction or more often hysteria.
What you’re reporting is not something very surprising to me. I saw it with a good crowd at my end. The film still didn’t make much. Because it’s appealed to very small pockets of the audience. That’s about it.
Comparing Tweet for Tweet? You’ev referred the twitetr and facebook for Guzaarish. It is good to hear Guzaarish is running three shows at your place. i’ve watched with three people in Theatre in the first week.
All in all KHJJS needs to show a significant uptick by Fri eve/night shows and an even bigger one on Sat. Otherwise it has no hope. For many other subjects I would be completely confident with these sorts of reviews and WOM. Unfortunately for a Gowariker film and the subjects he often chooses WOM needs to be stupendous which is obviously a high bar for any film. He’s never achieved this barring with Lagaan. On Swades the collections tell the story and beginning with the initial. On JA the family audience sustained it decently but this was still quite anemic overall despite the trending. Whether the factors working against KHJJS (chiefly the subject) can be overcome by good but not overwhelming WOM remains to be seen.
if KHJJS doesn’t work at all I can’t blame Abhishek for doing Italian Job or the Bazmee or even the Rohit Shetty. He needs to get some grossers pretty soon. I’d expect DMD to start the turn, looks to be a special film from everything I’ve been led to believe. Don’t expect much from Game because this is a new director. But Abhishek is still fortunate that he can land those big commercial projects on the heels of so much box office failure. And the ‘different’ now is a Balki solo which I don’t expect to be much for a problem. For that matter Department should also be alright on the initial certainly with both father and son in the film (and of course Dutt too). But this has certainly been a very rough road for him.
I agree, sometimes I feel he needs to put more effort into character to make it real. Amir or HR are not fools to spend so much time on understanding the role. He has already lost lot of fan base.
Someone pointed out in twitter that his voice modulation was bad and they suggested to use some method.
Satyam, almost every review has pointed out that Abhishek is a total misfit and his performance id totally uninspiring. Can you show me which review has praised AB’s acting?
the were a couple of others that thought he was good but not great (DNAIndia) or that he was too subdued for a revolutionary (Anupama Chopra for example though Gowariker wasn’t making Kranti nor did he ask Abhishek to play that kind of character). Only one suggested he was miscast if I’m not mistaken.
In any case there are very many of these reviews just through the first day where he’s been praised quite a bit. Sometimes I wonder if you read just what you want to. How could you have missed so many?
“Neither does it help that Abhishek Bachchan is assigned the onus of breathing life into a character of legendary proportions. He still appears to be playing Guru, either keep a straight expressionless face or a scowly one as if he’d been bitten by a mosquito. It’s a role that cries for complexity and nuances, and for heaven’s sake not a persistent folding of hands.”
From Khalid Mohammad, who has given one of the best ratings among all to the film ( 3 and half stars)
Khalid Mohammed is not even coherent there. First of all he’s had history with the Bachchans. Secondly how can one hate the lead performance of a biopic so much and still love the film?! It’s like saying one loved Raging Bull but hated De Niro. It makes no sense!
What is your problem? A movie of this kind would not work at the box office with any major star except maybe Aamir with his PR skills. But even Aamir could not make MP a hit.
Was Swades a hit movie? MP after a good opening crashed too and is considered a flop. Was Kites a hit? Every major star has flops no matter the genre and it is rare for a perid movie to succeed at the box office.
You were on a mission to destroy Guzaarish by pointing out only the bad reviews when there were many more good reviews than bad. I see the same pattern here with KHJJS where the reviews are pretty good (average of 3-3.5) except for a handful of bad reviews.
The critics who wanted a more charismatic fiery revolutionary are the ones who know nothing about Surya Sen who based on my reading was a very mild mannered teacher and unlikely leader. That is how AG apparently envisioned the character and how it is being played in the movie. AG did not change the character to meet the needs of the audience or the critics. I guess that is AG’s problem. He needed to more the characters more filmy.
At this point Abhishek should just make mindless stupid movies where critical approval is not needed to succeed because the audience will see the movie anyway.
I like Abhi, but being Amit Ji’s son and the expectations that come with that are enourmous. It would take an extraordinary talent to meet those expectations. Its pretty disappointing to see a talented actor get so many opportunities to make his mark and not be able to be to the task. I guess the public wants something else. Raavan was his last chance as a solo lead / hero. The public has spoken loud and clear on Abhi after Raavan. Now that doesnt mean Abhi is finished, he’ll just have to come in multi-star projects and that is the way he is going to have success. I think Abhisheks upcoming films are more massy and have a better chance at box office success. I just hope he doesnt lose his confidence. Bollywood is a better place when Abhi is success, see 2005-2007 time frame. Good Luck Abhi.
As a solo hero, it works if he choses Golmaal or other Akshays; comedies. KHJJS would not have worked with any other hero except may be Amir(because of his quality stamp). It may be same with raavan.
I wonder why Abhishek is always spoken of bearing the burden of being Amitabh’s son. He is Jaya’s son, too! So, in terms of expectations on acting ability, he’s got a double gold “genealogy”, as Satyam puts it. And for me personally, being more familiar with Jaya’s filmography than Amitabh’s, he disappoints on that front.
Amitabh may be the bigger star (since Jaya retired), but I am speaking of acting pedigree only, where both parents are relevant. Perhaps I shouldn’t be amazed at the patriarchal nature of such comparisons, similar to counting Umrao Jaan as an Abhishek film, rather than an Aishwarya one.
yes there is an obvious gender issue to these things.. but Bachchan is the titan here so.. even in the West the comparison would usually be made with the ‘greater’ parent..
Of course it’s a different matter that I have personally never bought the fact that these comparisons have been holding him down. If anything people have quite loved him when he has shared screen space with his father from BnB to Sarkar to KANK to Paa. Similarly the box office wasn’t a problem for him Dhoom through Guru. Nor was critical acclaim a problem when it came to Yuva or Guru or Sarkar or even entertainers like Dostana. He got great attention for Paa as well. And again there is no problem with the KHJJS reviews. The majority have still praised him, some exceedingly so. I’ve just listed all of these in the response to Utkal. The problem is simply the kinds of films he does. High risk fare consistently. Yes he’s had some bad luck but these were risky sequences to begin with. This is all there is to it. Even the ‘problems’ people have with his acting style comes more to the fore with some of these riskier roles. In Dostana no one had an issue. But that’s also a more obvious performance.
by the way Jaya was never a bigger star than Amitabh after Zanjeer. Not even close! Even otherwise she was hardly Hema Malini as a box office force. she had a niche cinema which she excelled at, she certainly had a place in the industry but there was never any comparison between her and her husband once the latter become successful.
Satyam – I don’t think SM was talking about box-offfice clout – for sure Jaya’s classy movies wouldn’t match the kind of business done by Hema/Amit films.
The ‘type’ of films that Jaya and Sanjeev did in the 70’s were my favourite of that decade. (Of course sanjeev did lots of silly films too, but Jaya much less so).
Gowariker is good with ensemble casts and here too he gets the right men (and women) for the job. As Surya Sen, Abhishek brings a sense of calm and a quiet determination to the enterprise. He is able to physically inculcate the essence of the great Bengali revolutionary — “mujhe angrezon se nahin, unki neeyat aur nazariya se nafrat hai”. And by the time he announces in court, “Kranti ek pratha ban chuki hai”, you believe him.
Costing of the movie total is around 45 cr, so i think 40-45 cr from Indian Theatrical Nett should make it safe, which its totally a long shot now.
Right now movie is Behind Chronicles of Narnia in advance for today later shows at BMS and there is little evidence to show that movie will pick up big time.
As things stand today, i think movie will end under 20 cr overall run.
Interesting to see that the movies started with 4 and 3.5 star ratings then it dropped to 3/2.5 ratings…Major critics like Anupama Chopra, Rajiv Masanad, Pratim D. Gupta did not like the movie much…Both the critics from IndiaFM site Taran and Faridoon gave it big thumbs up..Subash Jha every one knows what to expect from him..Rangan’s review will be quite predicatable..
BTW can some one post the link of Mayank Shekhar’s review???
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey v Break Ke Baad: Key Multiplexes
Friday 3rd December 2010 23.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
The collections of Break Ke Baad last week were low but Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey has set record lows for a major release. Its possible day one may not even touch the 1.25 crore nett mark. The first day numbers for both films from some key multiplexes are below
PVR Chandigarh
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 41,000
Break Ke Baad – 1,65,000
PVR Ludhiana
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 13,000
Break Ke Baad – 70,000
Wave Ludhiana
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 15,000
Break Ke Baad – 79,000
PVR Ambience Gurgaon
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 93,000
Break Ke Baad – 2,25,000
PVR Saket Delhi
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 1,10,000
Break Ke Baad – 2,22,500
yeah boxoffice is expected for this film. Again, Abhishek does a risky project where rather than being the “central” figure, he’s one of the many in a ensemble. No doubt, he’s the leading man, but he shares his screen time without any starry aura for the betterment of the film.
I will be surprised if this films picks up as it will alienate a large part of the “snotty” multiplex teens, pity given that the film features such a prominent young cast who’ve done a remarkable job.
Abhishek delivers a hat-trick of flops with Mehra, Rathnam and Gowariker in ONE year. It’s been one of the toughest years for Abhi but I feel he’s been “holding back” himself in some sense. These directors only seem to come to Abhishek for their riskiest films and he accepts them.
Even in a patriotic role, Abhishek is restrained to the hilt. His anger is simmering but never quite boils over much like ijn SARKAR RAJ (except for the Subhash Nagre chor hai moment). It’s like Gowariker and Bachchan himself are scared to unveil the monster. Given Amitabh himself has POWER, BUDDHA and AKARSHAN around the corner maybe it’s too early for Abhishek to unveil in a full fledged DABANNG and GHAJINI type masala mode.
Strangely enough, DUM MAARO DUM, PLAYERS, GAME, Rohit Shettys action-comedy all seem like the kind of inane nonsense that recently saw G3 crosss the 100 crore mark (?!?!)
with these films he’ll have the multiplex on board but then he needs to win over the multiplex with something really massy. His film with Prabhu Devaa should be the first here.
DUM MAARO DUM has a real chance at being the most unique of these films as far as Abhisheks legacy goes. With the inclusion of the original song, the theme, song and cast of the film, Abhishek will have a potent winner here. The first promo itself will be a rage.
KHJJS is Abhishek in more Jaya Bachchan mode than Amitabh Bachchan…..
If i had to give it a rating it is 8/10. It’s my favourite Ashutosh film since SWADES (it’s a tough call for me between the two right now), though not as good as LAGAAN!
Again, this is a darker film than the promos even suggest and a harrowing look in to the lives of men (and teenagers) on the run in turbulent times. There is no “fun” in the first half per se minus a few scenes. Ashu has made a “faster” film at the compromise of investing too much in to the characters which pays off in my view. More to follow on my review.
KHJJS is powerful because it’s unassuming, and this is why I admire both Gowariker and Bhansali, they stick to their vision! This scores way above GUZAARISH as far as a film goes as one doesn’t walk away with as many “What if’s”!? The flaws are less evident and the narrative far superior.
Ashutosh is a master craftsman handling a very important subject with precision and relish. The central characters connect the effort Gowariker goes in showing his characters “mindset” is an experience. Moody, sombre, no jingoism, straight-forward KHJJS is without a shred of doubt one of 2010’s finest films.
Went to see rc-2 yesterday. N the guy asked me to wait. I asked then he replied i was the first one for it. Show might be cancelled. Then i watched khjjs
All families coming were going for narnia. Dont what they like in movies like in hp n narnia. May be for their children. But for this too not much rush at all
When i entered the screen for khjjs. Only handful of people around 20 I think for 500 seater. movie started as downer. Apart from songs nothing was good. Actors looked so pretentious n artifical. Some youngesters started abusive language at some scenes. It was testing my patience just like guzzarish did. Though i thought of walking out only once while guzzarish first half brought such thoughts many times in mind. funny sequences does make u laugh becoz it was all in humour. I think it takes too much time to pick up. First half could have been shorter by half an hour. But ultimately first half ends on some positive note n last 15 minutes of it gave some hope. By then i gave the fim 1.5/5.
Second half starts goes with pace excitement n everything touches u deep in heart. My eyes were wet throughout the second half. I feel connected with those characters so much. and then end credit rolls which is the peak of the movie. Then i thought shd i rate second half 5/5 but i feel guilty. This is beyond rating n a priceless film. Neither director or anyone shd be disappointed with bo outcome. This is pround moment for industry. i heard people saying so sad no one watches such films. Everybody who stood tired just waited for end credits to roll out where u see real photos of revolutiones n easily identify with characters. Dont know critics keep their heart out when they watch it. Salute to AG, he made it with purity n simplicity. He never fancies events just keeps it honest, he could have given heroic moment to actors for bo perspective but he is most simple, honest n original director. Now i understand what its first half means. We people r no more pure just corrupted living fake lives.
I was confused before watching it to pick best film of the year. Guzzarish or rc were my choice. But now can clearly say khjjs is best of the year. simplicity n honesty can easily beat all fantasies.
If KHJJS shows no pickup over the weekend there’s no doubt that it’s going to have an extraordinarily low gross. In some ways I feel sorrier for Abhishek (or Gowariker) here than with Raavan or D6. The latter two films got their audience, they weren’t liked but still got to decent enough totals as flops in ‘different’ genres. In other words as we saw with Guzaarish and now even moreso with KHJJS not every high profile ‘different’ film gets to that range. But KHJJS has clearly not interested anyone at all.
Now Abhishek has really commercial attempts with Bazmee, Rohit shetty, Abbas-Mustaan. All films that please the crowds and of course guarantee a good or fantastic initial. One can’t blame him at this point for going for a number of these in quick succession. Of course he still has Balki’s next and RGV’s as well but these films relative to budget and so forth will always be safer anyway. Balki’s prestige is in any case very high and this is a home production for Abhishek. Some of the other stuff being talked about seems uncertain. But before this there’s Game which is a question mark because we haven’t seen the director’s work though otherwise a thriller shot in Europe should have a minimal audience assuming there is enough of a soundtrack here and the usual works. But really the next truly important film for him is DMD which almost looks to be an iconic re-launch for him at this point. Again Rohan Sippy doesn’t make mass hits but he could have here a super-BM, a film that works well across multiplexes, will certainly have a hit soundtrack with Pritam, and a physicality for the star to satisfy younger audiences. So even though things seem so dire for him he seems quite alright. and I doubt he will not return to riskier films soon enough (doing Department and Balki already suggests he’s not abandoning anything). He’s definitely had some bad luck but where he can be blame justifiably is not mixing it up enough so far or thinking about the mix adequately from year to year. So Raavan and KHJJS in one year is a risky sequence. Raavan was expected to be a winner but with a Rathnam nothing’s ever certain. In ’07 he had Guru and JBJ. The latter was the more obvious choice, it didn’t work but Guru at least did. In ’08 he had SR (had a decent initial, not much of a follow-through but this was quite fine in a critical sense and even the overall 35-37 crore total was decent enough for this sort of film and budget. No excuse for Drona but then he had Dostana. In ’09 D6 again failed where it was not expected to. Towards the end of that year he had Paa where even if things centered around Auro he got a good deal out of it for his own performance and of course for being producer. This year though has been a very big knock and if you then sum up things since ’07 there are very high profile failures in JBJ, D6, Raavan, and now as always seems certain in KHJJS. Ironically what saves him still is the fact that no one looks at these films and thinks that anyone else could make these run (Aamir might have done much better with KHJJS and possibly got a success here.. of all the failures I think it’s this one which would have remained reasonably stable with enough of an initial). One measure of stardom is the extent to which you can continue to attract high profile projects. Abhishek has has very significant failures and too many at that but it is at this very point that Abbas-Mustaan are making their biggest film with him, where a Rohit Shetty after a 100 crore hit is interested in him (even if the film has Devgan he could take another star..), Bazmee revamps Hera Pheri with him (besides also wanting to do Hangover with him). You cannot not be perceived as a major star and attract this kind of commercial attention. Ironically I expect Abhishek to be in a very strong commercial position probably a year or 18 months from now. These will be films that I will hardly be celebrating and yet at this point I certainly cannot blame him. Once this period passes though he should just be careful of better managing the mix. Incidentally I forgot Dostana 2. It keeps getting delayed, I personally don’t want Abhishek to even do this for other reasons but if it does get made this is another commercial winner. I must admit that what makes me a bit nervous about doing some of this very commercial stuff is that the ‘seduction’ of great success cannot be underestimated. Yes he walked away from a lot of the success and hype in ’04/’05 though he also did not expect some of the stuff to end up as badly as it did. At this point it’s clear that even doubling the bets hasn’t paid off. However if you suddenly get films in a cluster with big or massive grosses it’s very hard to avoid that ‘logic’ at that point. Yes it would be great for Abhishek to loosen up in some of these parts. His act in Dostana was certainly very enjoyable but I am too devoted to his gifts as an actor not to mention some of the projects he’s done to want these to disappear (I suppose Abhishek doing some of this stuff is a bit like Surya doing hardcore masala!). Again don’t expect this to happen as contemporary Bollywood keeps throwing up these opportunities but there’s been no other major stars (almost ever) who has not completely capitalized on the low hanging box office fruit as Abhishek has so far been unwilling to do. At any rate he needs the commercial stuff, there’s nothing else to do for the time being. But yeah his ability to rebound is less appreciated. Partisans should be careful of what they wish for! SRK, Hrithik, Akshay (because his genre films hardly seem to work anymore) at this point do not have a better commercial cluster coming up!
I feel Bachchans have to seriously think of starting film with South directors like RajaMouli or Muruga Doss. What Abhishek missing is these directors can elevate. RajaMouli’s movies he can project the hero to commericial level. They have to take chance. I am noit happy with SrBachchan posting retweets of comments. It is too late. Did they not recognize this with the first khjjs still that Abhishek holding a rifle? To me that looked like a taking picture kids take at exhibition places with fake rifle.
They have to RISK something higher than following rotten comedies. By the time he started , people might be already got fed up of them.
LOL, we might have a human landing in Mars before they start entertaining Southern directors! I am led to believe the Prabhudeva is still on but the akshay one will get made first. On the comedies they won’t get stale in a year! As G3 reveals this is a pretty bankrupt audience. It’s not about genre as much in some ways. Because the multiplex love stories are doing terribly. Stunts and comedy seem to get better initials all else being equal. The audience has just been in a mood for silly entertainment for the longest time. Which one wouldn’t mind if it were part of the mix but these genres tend to do vastly better than others. For different films to work and especially work in a big way you need something like a perfect film or at least an excellent one that is also one of a series of pre-audience-approved subjects! By the way all that stuff with rifles and so on is very authentically handled in the film. But the advertising was poor for content and especially for volume. Not that this would have ever got a big initial but they could have maximized those cross-sections of the audience that were at least persuadable. On that cinematix survey for example basic awareness of the film was very low let alone interest. Incidentally I would like to watch the film a second time. But it’s not playing in my suburban theater and it’s a bit difficult to keep making the trek even if I saw it on a fantastic screen where image and sound quality were awesome.
by the way there are a number of very significant directors from both the Tamil and Telugu industries who would start a project with Abhishek in a heartbeat.
“Abhishek has has very significant failures and too many at that but it is at this very point that Abbas-Mustaan are making their biggest film with him, where a Rohit Shetty after a 100 crore hit is interested in him (even if the film has Devgan he could take another star..), Bazmee revamps Hera Pheri with him (besides also wanting to do Hangover with him). You cannot not be perceived as a major star and attract this kind of commercial attention”
HAHA srsly? well could be because Aamir, Hrithik and Srk won’t even think of doing these movies, Saif is busy courting Vishal B, Imtiaz and Co to direct him in his own home production.. Ranbir & Imraan are busy with Dharma and Yashraj.. so who’s left for people like Aneez B and Rohit Shetty.. yes guessed it right, Abhishek! 🙂
As I said earlier folks like yourself will be sorry relatively soon..! Spare me a thought at that point! On the rest of what you’re saying it’s not serious enough to even be debated!
Why will folks like me be sorry? It’s just that maybe maybe it’s time you let poor abhishek and his poor movies do the talking.. enough of the ‘love letters’! 🙂
People like you crack me up. The only actor with a great record in the last five years has been Aamir with one flop.
Let’s see how the other major stars are doing with real hits (not average or above average stradding the line stuff):
Salman: 17 flops in last 20 movies
Akshay: 20 flops in last 25 movies
SRK: 7 flops in last 11 movies
Hrithik: 3 flops in the last 6 movies
Ranbir: 5 flops in the last 7 movies
Saif: 10 flops in the last 12 movies
Shahid: 12 flops in the last 15 movies
This is based on information from several sources so may not be perfect. But you get the general idea that all the major stars are in the same boat when it comes to getting hit movies – audience is completely unpredictable.
Let’s get over this nonsense about flop actors based on only box office results and focus on BW producing some good quality movies for a change.
Tyler, just wondering.. which 7 SRK flops are you talking about here.. gimme a break if you’re talking about delayed -cameo/special appearence films like Billu Barber or Dulha Mil gaya..
coz after Paheli, every filmof his has done good enough except perhaps an underperformer in MNIK
I think he has considered DMG, BB, Shahrukh bola tu khoobsoorat hai and heyy babyy (this one is hit 4 akki but flop for SRK)…and also Drona and Raavan (SRK attended the premiere)…
Saturday 4th December 2010 19.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey had a disastrous first day for a major release with just 1 crore nett business on day one. All circuits were extremely dull. The film has no chance at the box office as Saturday saw a minimal turnaround.
Rakht Charitra was also very bad with around 65-70 lakhs nett on day one. The film was mainly a single screen release and will also not score at the box office.
Phas Gaye Re Obama was no different with around 25 lakhs nett on its first day but Saturday morning did see better collections but not a huge pick up. It will be important to see what happens on through the weekend.
well there was a big difference between Swades and Guzaarish opening.. the latter was a complete disaster.. of course KHJJS has made it look like a hit! and D6 or Raavan were supergrossers compared to this! The thing with Swades was that it had a very low opening but within normal limits. Trending wasn’t the worst but the final gross was still not much. However within context it was worse than it looks. The Lagaan director’s first film after Lagaan, SRK in the film and really nothing much happened. KHJJS though is in a unique group with UJ. Because with these films no one showed up. It’s not even about WOM or anything. No one wanted to see these films. On the cinematix survey 16% expressed interest in it within the 9% who were aware of the film!
Satyam, Such low turnout on day 1 is surprising, considering this is not a low budget film. Looks like nobody was interested. As far as the genre is concerned, the Bhagat Singh films also opened low– but not as low as this! Then there are lagaan, Gadar and Mangal Pandey which had huge openings. Asoka and Veer (if these can be considered of similar genre) also had somewhat average opening. Devdas had a good opening. Parineeta had low-average opening. Even Vivek Oberoi’s Krisna had a low-average opening. But with KHJJS, BO has seen a record low.
One reason could be that Abhishek doesnt have a minimal fan-base that a star needs in worst case scenario. Other could be that the genre is a complete washout.
I think it’s a combination of the subject, and the previous track record of Gowarikar and Abhishek. Gowarikar’s last was What’s Your Rashi, which was a flop, and Abhishek’s last was Raavan, which was also not successful. So neither had any momentum from a previous project to attract viewers, and the film’s subject matter is not geared for wide appeal, unless the audience was carefully prepared.
The opening of this film is so low, so ‘negligible’, the magnitude of the audience non-participation is such that it goes way beyond such explanations. This sort of thing explains a regular flop or a low opening within some sort of normal range. This has been a UJ deal where people simply weren’t interested. A mad degree of advertising in either instance would possibly have helped but the opening was such in either instance that one quickly runs out of theories!
But what is surprising is that this film has done abysmally overseas as well, while both WYR and Umrao Jaan did well overseas. For Umrao Jaan I remember that the theater was fuller than for Don.
Well.. here’s how it stood.. UJ did extremely well in the US, it opened better than TZP and CDI and then also trended well enough to get to 1 million. Let me offer a correlation here — JA did phenomenally well in the US and almost matched OSO, which was the record holder at the time. In each case the gross of the films in other overseas territories was not even close though they did decently or worse depending on the country. In India UJ was like KHJJS, no one was interested. Again it wasn’t a question of WOM. people just did not show up. Months later, even some years later I was amazed to discover in conversations with people they weren’t even aware of such a film! UJ too was a film that I believe would have trended well enough in India with family audiences had enough seen it. people didn’t. I’d say the same for KHJJS. I obviously wouldn’t say this for a D6 or a Raavan because these got their audiences (though in each case when I saw the film in the theater I knew it wouldn’t run).
Let’s get back to the ‘correlation’. I saw UJ twice in the theater. In each instance the audience was 95% women at the very least and if I had to take a bet a very large number was from Pakistan. In the US this sort of audience has historically showed up only for the SRK love story/family film, these days for something like 3I. Otherwise the participation of this segment is relatively limited. The rest of the audience shows up for most big films that are big in India too. Aishwarya Rai I have long said has her strongest base in the South and then overseas in the US. Assuming of course that the film in question has minimal appeal. But you put her in some sort of period piece where she gets to ‘dress up’ and you have a lot more of this family audience interested. You then add the ‘Muslim’ sign (UJ, JA) and you might get something off the charts, specially in the US where Pakistanis are an important segment. Now one has to do the sociology in more detailed fashion to question why Pakistanis seem more invested in JA and UJ in the US as opposed to the UK or the Mideast. But there it is.
KHJJS will not do half of what WYR did in the US. This actually further makes my claim. This isn’t an argument about stars. If you put Abhishek and Deepika in even a pedestrian romance tomorrow it would do three times what most love stories are doing in every territory. It’s not about stars here. A certain perfect storm for created with KHJJS…
1)Gowariker’s films are seen as ‘boring’ by the demographic that dominates multiplexes, an under 35 crowd (the bulk of this is really in the 15-25 group) that did not like any Gowariker film after Lagaan including JA. Even with SRK and Hrithik they weren’t interested by and large. The latter still survived on the basis of the family audience. Swades too found a certain audience within this demographic. With KHJJS though you have Gowariker and a theme that even the family audience isn’t interested in. the fact is that ‘patriotism’ has almost never been a ‘seller’ in the entire history of Bombay cinema unless it’s been tied to high voltage masala cinema. This at least gets you an initial even if the film eventually does not work.
2)Abhishek has had too many high profile failures doing different. Especially D6 and Raavan. These matter because these were expected by the audience to be outright winners. The directors had done RDB and Guru prior to this. With Rathnam Abhishek had a longer history. If Dum Maro Dum is your release following these films it doesn’t matter because the audience knows it’s a completely different subject. When it’s a ‘different’ film directed by Gowariker that’s also a freedom struggle sort of deal the bar is raised infinitely higher and at this point in time no one other than Aamir could have created the right confidence in the audience to watch such a subject. Ironically Rathnam and Mehra themselves would have less of a problem if any if they did other projects with Abhishek because there’s always something commercial appetizing about their projects. Not so with Gowariker.
3)The soundtrack was a factor. You never get a good initial these days without at least one winner in the soundtrack. Said this for Guzaarish too. That Bhansali had effectively sealed the deal with his soundtrack. KHJJS has sweet music for the subject but it’s not the sort anyone buys. Rahman himself couldn’t get JA to sell much before release and not very much even after!
4)Extremely lackadaisical advertising both in terms of content and volume. You have on the one hand the extreme of Farah Khan hyping her film to death in the crudest ways imaginable despite the fact that this film hardly has an initial problem (!) and on the other hand you have Gowariker pretending he has all the time in the world to attract an audience. The previews confirmed all the biases the audiences might have had about this film.
4)The audience is also a factor. They have to be blamed as much as anyone else. Yes a perfect storm was created in terms of the four factors mentioned above. But the audience also has some responsibility. I am not talking about ‘everyone’ here but surely some segment of the multiplex audience needed to show up here. You can’t just be for quality films in the abstract but never actually show up when it counts or be for them only when they’re ‘perfect’. Aamir made those comments about DG which inflamed people (though he need not have worried so much, DG will still get enough people to the theaters because of him) but he’s hardly wrong. The truth often offends! We’ve just seen G3 do a 100 crores. No Problem will do very well too. Are these huge stars?! Devgan does a 100 crores in G3, does quite well in OUATIM (rather watchable fare this..) and then for Aakrosh he gets zilch! What does one think this is about?! Again the audience just doesn’t wish to see such a subject! Abhishek might be foolish for not mixing it up better but consider this very bankrupt audience that on most days wishes for nothing more than Race or G3! Consider how Ranbir APKGK did and then Rocket Singh a bit later! Consider how JA opened, consider how Guzaarish opened and sustained. Consider how AR did (for Akshay anything other than his regular comedies kills his audience!), consider how SRK’s different attempts have fared over the years, on and on. This is why for years I’ve been giving Aamir extraordinary credit. To make different films and to keep getting hits out of them is to keep threading a needle with the multiplex audience. It’s the most difficult thing around! Yes, Aamir stops where he realizes he cannot sell more to his audience. But he needed that sort of compromise to keep persuading his audience.
Finally let me also say something about all of us here in the online universe. We too can be remarkable partisans supporting quality films only as a cynical measure. When our star does it it’s ok otherwise it’s poor and not entertaining and box office suicide and what not. we just want our stars to have hits whether these come about doing the worst cinema possible or the best. I have never been a fan of Hrithik the actor but I showed up for Guzaarish and JA in the theater. I wasn’t a fan of SRK after the late 90s and I yet showed up for not only Swades but most of his major films. The same goes for Hrithik actually. The point is we can have our favorites but then also either support quality films or show up for major releases if that is our thing (as it is for me). I will for example watch TMK unless the reviews are bad. I just like watching big releases in the theater (though sometimes depending on where the film is playing it gets difficult for me). I am only using myself as an example here so that people don’t start accusing be of being an Abhishek partisan. Similarly in our commentary on films here it is obvious that we support any film our favorite appears in 99% of the time! It is astonishing to see the introspection many lack as they outline their choices when it comes to their favorite stars and then others. So you have frankly a lack of taste and sensibility on the one hand (including the fact that a poor box office does not mean anything necessarily about the quality of a film) but also hyper-partisanship where every single film release is looked at through the lens of one’s partisan leanings. I am supporter of masala. Loved it when BnB was a hit, loved it even more when Aamir had his Ghajini, loved the preview of Dabangg and was thrilled to see this get so big. Salman has I believe two masala films next year in Ready and Bodyguard. Hope he has big ones in both. I say this when I find him offensive on screen most of the time! So one at least be consistent in that ideological sense. But this too does not happen.
There is a lack of a genuine film culture in India and this is just reflected at every level.
1) I think maybe it has become “boring” but the other factor about a Gowariker film is its very long. Don’t know the run time of KHJJS, but Lagaan/Swades/Jodha Akbar were long films and they all require a level of patience for any kind of reward. And when you get the *boring* tag, along with the long film one, well one can’t think of two worst tags to have to spend an evening watching a film. This is just what the perception probably is. Gowariker just wastes a lot of time with overdone slow motion camera moves and unnecessary scenes in his recent efforts. What he can achieve with 3hrs plus, others could achieve with 2hrs 30mins. And the impression it creates is painstakingly taken effort into detail but with little dramatic impact on the audience.
2) Abhishek is clearly on a bad run. And this is a part of the poor response. One can’t blame it all on him, but success breeds more success and for sure an Abhishek with a better box office track record would have at least opened this movie to some extent. But the genre, grim promotion, poor music all add to the films lack of appeal as highlighted in point 3) and 4). And the promotion has been utterly dull IMO. Rightly or wrongly, when films are arriving with monumental publicity, this one arrived with so little promotion. And I like this sentence of yours “You have on the one hand the extreme of Farah Khan hyping her film to death in the crudest ways imaginable despite the fact that this film hardly has an initial problem (!) and on the other hand you have Gowariker pretending he has all the time in the world to attract an audience.” It just hits the nail on the head. I find Gowariker may have a bit of an ego in that he may think “I am Ashutosh Gowariker and people will come and see my film”. It does not work like that now. If this was a 40 crore project then surely at a bare minimum the film should have arrived with considerable promotion. If the film fails then at least one can say all the tricks were tried. I am surprised he may have thought people would be swinging there way into theatres to watch this one.
3) Sure G3 will make 100 crores and it is quite painful to see, but I find at least the people who promotes these films do give the film every chance of making money. With KHJJS it not only seemed the audiences were disinterested but it feels the team were not really going gung ho with the film. And that impression nowadays is really what is ceiling the deal. And also is the audience disinterest here just a function of the fact that the KHJJS promotion was disinteresting?
Satyam, I hope that long post was just to generally get things off your chest, and not directed specifically at me. If it was, i can only say I don’t have the energy to counter it, nor even the desire, as I don’t disagree with most of what you said.
However, here are a few points I want to make.
1. Sorry, for saying “overseas”, when I meant “U.S.” Yes, the audience for UJ where I saw it had a large number of women, but it wasn’t predominantly women by any means. And of the women, at least half were Americans, not South Asian. I don’t think this means anything more than the locations where you and I saw it (you in NY, me in LA).
2. Regarding KHJJS, I was initially very interested in the subject, but a little wary about Gowarikar’s handling of it, as I was quite unfavorably impressed by his treatment of serious subjects in JA and Swades. Once the promos started coming out, they tended to reinforce my fears, and once the reviews came out, they completely killed my interest in it, as they all pointed to exactly the weaknesses that I anticipated.
3. I am far from being “under 35” but my opinion of AG is also that he is very boring. 🙂 The reason I find him boring is that he seems to have no conception of dramatic structure or character development. In this regard I was most disappointed by Swades, coming as it did after Lagaan, which I thought was a very well constructed script. After seeing both, I had to believe all the articles about Aamir “ghost writing” or “ghost directing” his films, because the contrast between Lagaan and Swades was so marked. At the same time, the weaknesses that I now associate with AG were also present in Lagaan, specifically poor characterization. Frankly, I don’t think Lagaan would have been as successful in India as it was without the long cricket match being included. Online comments I read at the time reinforced that interpretation.
4. I find AG more annoying than boring, because he keeps taking up very important issues, but just doesn’t have the intellectual depth to handle them properly. As much as I disliked Delhi 6, it was miles ahead of Swades in its handling of its subject matter. Can you imagine what someone like Shyam Benegal would have done with KHJJS? So I find all this talk of AG being one of the best, if not “the best” directors in India baffling.
5. I find the recent failures of both Guzaarish and KHJJS instructive in that they reinforce my opinion for some time now, that most commercial Bollywood directors don’t have any clue about characterization, or on how to make character driven films, rather than plot driven ones. A film like Guzaarish, from what I have gathered, is all about characters rather than plot. To have it fall into the hands of someone like Bhansali, who couldn’t even begin to define “character” beyond costumes and sets, was its supreme misfortune. Again from what I gather from the reviews (professional and general), the problem with KHJJS is that it is again a very character driven story, but AG treated it as a plot driven one — A happened, then B happened, then C happened, etc., without any delving into *why* any of these events happened. This is the only regard in which I agree with you that the audience needs to be educated, since the overwhelming majority of commercial films (at least now) are completely plot driven, filled with essentially stock characters (hero, heroine, some times villain) that do not require the audience to engage their brains at all in understanding why a given character behaves in a certain way. But then I think such stereotyping is a reflection of what is going on in the larger society in India, where everyone is ever eager to “classify” everyone else into the appropriate box of religion, language, caste, etc., and so comfortably save themselves the trouble of engaging with anyone (including themselves) in a meaningful manner. A superficial society will naturally produce superficial films and audiences who only want to engage with them superficially.
No it wasn’t directed at you.. but yes it aimed to offer a summary of where we are overall!
I am not as harsh as you on Gowariker. I see where the criticism comes from on him but I didn’t have a problem with Swades anywhere. I don’t think in any case that ‘dramatic’ is an adequate word for every kind of cinema. In any case KHJJS is actually very dramatic in the second half. He’s setting it up in the first half but even here I didn’t have issues anywhere.
Benegal I think has been quite boring for many years. Mehra is not a fair comparison for most filmmakers.
KHJJS ‘is’ a plot driven story not a character driven one. Gowariker again and again said it’s not meant to be a biopic but about an event.
I think ‘new India’ since the 90s has been another name for complacency on the part of upwardly mobile urban bourgeoisie. The problem is: no one wants revolution in any sense of the term. The most iconic urban movie in many years, RDB (at least by certain measures), actually illustrates this problem best. The revolution is given with one hand and taken away with the other. Ultimately no one really has to do anything. But any film that either serious critiques the ‘present’ or asks for a ‘change of course’ meets a difficult box office! No exceptions to my mind in any genre or any kind of film whatsoever in this deep ideological sense with the possible one of Ghajini (yes there was a Hollywood compromise here too and the thriller element but at least the film pulled no punches in terms of conveying its tragedy and horror).
On Swades by the way I don’t think the aim here was to make a dramatic film. It was meant to be an introspective, reflective film. Now I have argued it wasn’t visually as interesting as Lagaan in any sense but that’s a different matter. JA can be better criticized on these grounds though even here I think Gowariker mixes a number of genres. It’s not that the whole film is meant to be a gripping drama. The script is messy for sure but that’s because Gowariker treats things in episodic fashion. I still find Abzee’s comment very useful on Gowariker that his kind of cinema reflects a quintessential Marathi ethos, in terms of how the narrative works. Having seen only a few Marathi films I understand this comment instinctively. Clearly this isn’t an ethos the rest of India connects to!
I feel sorry for Rakesh Mehra,Manirathnam,Gowarikar,SLB who are talented but don’t have guts to work with newcomers…Since these subjects are somewhat risky why can’t these guys go for newcomers(someone genuinely talented rather than superstar sons/daughters)…Even if collections are less,they won’t be huge flops like their recent movies..
If KHJJS cost 40 cr and you replace Abhishek (est 5 cr) and Deepika (est 2 cr), than AG saves 7 cr and the movie still costs 33 cr. So it is a huge flop regardless of stars or not.
Why blame the stars when there are various other reasons for the movie not working at the box office – lack of interest in such topics, better editing (pacing), maybe it needed more filmy touches, whatever?
Yes, I agree that movies with risky subjects should be made at a lower budget which includes getting the stars to take a lower fee but also minimizing all other costs.
Whats so risky about this project other than the lead actor? films like lagan gadar and mp have done good business. Even the ones that didnt, had far better opening than khjjs.
If the opening was like Guzarish we could say that the subject didnt help the film or that people showed least interest. But with an opening like this, you know its all the reasons plus much more. I think that abhishek doesnt have the star power to attract that minimal number of viewers.
thats a pretty low number. When an Abhishek film flops…it flops badly. his films have had some of the lowest totals in the last couple of years. he needs a hit(solo..multi starrer..it doesnt matter). but to say he is on his way out is pretty dumb…the bottom line is…this guy is not going anywhere. abhishek wont give out hits like amitabh did…noone has…but i think he will be up there eventually. look at ajay devgan with his recent hit streak. look at akshay kumar’s emergence in the past couple years. the only question with abhishek is…will he ever climb up to the top tier(SRK, Aamir, Hrithik, Salman) or will he always be in the middle of the pack? and im talking about BO wise. his acting is good..but it won’t be remembered if he doesnt have BO success.
The shocking performance of KHJS is not really so shocking. Disheartening, yes but this one was knd of dead before arrival. The movie is about an important chapter in the struggle for Indepenence but lets get real.Chittagong uprising is far from being allianwala bagh or Dandi March.
Gowariker is a sincere maker but is not synonymous with drama. As Rangan depicts in the last para of his review his story telling has an air of laziness and languidnes about it , which is rather well known. Combine it with singularly lacklustre promotion and that created zero interest in the general public.
Only a fool would try to blame Abhi for ths failure, not that there is a dearth of such fools. Surely, it doesnt help Abhi’s cause.
Have not seen the film but it does seem Gowariker has made a not too shaby film but unfortunately, the bubble gum and panties crowd is not thrilled.
As I mentioned in my piece I think this is easily Gowariker’s best film since Lagaan. And yes it is true that to add to everything Gowariker chose a revolutionary hero no one knew about! Abhishek though really needs a box office reset at this point. Either a massive one or a series of good or big grossers. He’s signed on some very commercial stuff so I expect him to get there. DMD I think will be the reset in some ways as this promises a ‘cool’ Abhishek for the multiplexes. Game might be a bonus if it does anything. But yeah as a fan I can’t really celebrate Bazmee or Rohit shetty even if each does a 100 crores! Italian Job I don’t really mind. I can only hope that the box office of these films allows him some space to take on interesting directors once again. He still has one with RGV and one with Balki. Hope there’s more of this.
A plain rendition of certain historical events related to independence has become a tired tired genre. Its been almost 70 yrs, in which bwood has probably made 50 movies related to the struggle against British. The promos of KHJJS were stock jingoistic, with Vande Mataram blaring in every scene. the juiciest target audience segment, ie 15-30 yr olds have moved on! For Gods Sake, how much more patriotism can you squeeze out of the masses? Dont these scriptwriters even realize it? Where’s the goddamn strategic decision making chops behind these studios?
One cant even compare this to Lagaan, because Lagaan was a total fictional tale spiced up with cricket. If the intention is to make a period piece on independence, do something like Lagaan. Maybe make murder mysteries, or what-have-you.
IMO, as it stands today, we really lack talent at the directorial level. Barring Hirani, all these others Mehra, SLB, AG, etc have been unable to give success without the help of the Khan triumvirate. When will directors stop wasting money, and start making something different?
Nykavi: I haven’t seen the film yet, but what was “jingoistic” about the film’s promos? It was a patriotic film, but not jingoistic based on the promos…
What was AG’s intention behind making this movie? If he read this book and thought that this chapter of our independence struggle needs to be told( as stated in an interview) he could have made it more viewer friendly, ie is more dramatic, jngoistic, etc to get the crowd in. Not just for profits but to inform more people. It would not have taken away any thing significant from the history. But if it was just to satisfy his creative juices could have made a smaller budjet movie, true to the event, that could have been shown on the film festival circuit before releasing here at select theaters.
I too, though not being under 30, find Gowariker’s films boring. His intentions are good, story is interesting but execution is too rigid and uninteresting. Even in Lagaan, I found the cricket match too long. I mean we know that team Bhuvan is going to win, but each player was made to take a stance at the crease, it felt like watching a school match without even the excitement of a surprise result. In JA , was interested in only watching/ogling Hritik. Can’t bear to watch its reruns on TV
Guys.. I so wish you could make a separate thread for trailers of, public response and random reviews on ‘Phas gaye re Obama’.. Coz it is disheartening to see such films dont reaching out to people especially when even intelligent folks like you spend all your leisure time energy in discussing about high budget, mediocre films..
so here we have people having separate threads for Premiers of KHJJS, Reviews on KHJJS, box office of KHJJS, threads on TMK months before its release… but not a single one for Phase gaye re Obama..
I watched this gem of a film last night and this one should easily be one of the best 2010 films..
most of you say its a sad state of BW today with flicks like TMK and G3.. if thats the case, why give them so much of importance.. isnt it a worse state when you ignore smaller, bolder, and much better films..?
people like Farah Khan will continue to achieve her targets and make more crap thanks to such long, ‘intelligent’ discussions on how bad her films are.. good or bad, it creates hype for her.. and then .. the independent filmmakers suffer.. these guys just do not get any publicity or media attention..!
yes I must admit I had a bit of a lapse on this one. The problem is that the film has already released now and it’s a bit pointless to put up a trailer thread.
A Slow Weekend at the Box Office
By BROOKS BARNES; Compiled by RACHEL LEE HARRIS
The weekend after Thanksgiving is typically one of the slowest of the year at the North American box office, and the last three days proved no exception. The only sizable new release, “The Warrior’s Way,” a Relativity Media western designed as a vehicle for the South Korean superstar Jang Dong-gun, flopped badly with just $3 million in ticket sales. Most notable for the weekend was a film that opened in only 18 theaters: Darren Aronofsky’s “Black Swan,” a dark portrait of a ballet dancer (Natalie Portman), grossed $1.4 million for a per-theater average of $77,459 — one of the best art-house results for the year and a record for the studio behind the film, Fox Searchlight. Over all “Tangled” (Walt Disney Studios), above, was No. 1 in its second weekend in theaters, selling $21.5 million for a new total of $96.5 million, according to Hollywood.com, which compiles box office statistics. “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1” (Warner Brothers) was second with $16.7 million for a three-week total of more than $244 million. The runaway-train thriller “Unstoppable” (20th Century Fox) lived up to its title, tying for third in its fourth week with about $6.1 million for a new total of $69 million. The musical “Burlesque” (Sony Pictures Entertainment) shared third-place ranking with $6.1 million of its own for a two-week total of $29 million. “Love and Other Drugs” (Fox) rounded out the top five with $5.7 million for a two-week total of $22.6 million.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all unless by some miracle it managed to hover around the 1 crore mark day after day! In the US for example it would be lucky to get to half of WYR’s number! as I described earlier in this thread a perfect storm seems to have come about here. And ironically with a film that I believe would trend quite decently if not better had it managed to get a bigger audience. One cannot say this for all flop. The only other example from this year of a film doing so badly is Aakrosh, specially if you consider Devgan’s otherwise good year with Rajneeti, the comedies, OUATIM. Aakrosh would not even be considered ‘boring’ by anyone but it was still a subject everyone avoided like the plague. No one showed up. A flop assumes that someone shows up in the first place. When no one does the film is of course the truest disaster but it’s also something other than a ‘rejected’ film.
when is a film rejected when ppl turn to see it, but when audience arent turning up ? thats why i said i was speechless (the last thing u expect from devils advocate 😉 )
but who to blame?
1. ashu
2. promotion team
3. abhisekh
imo, all are guilty. and deserved this as writing was on the wall.
yeah remember making that point here and on Bachchan’s blog the day the name was announced. I of course didn’t expect quite this non-response from the audience but at every step it was clear that Gowariker was confirming the worst stereotypes about his films. And as I keep saying it was unfortunate here because I think that with enough of an audience this film would have survived.
The other advantage with Lagaan leaving aside the obvious ones (tighter script and so on) was that here the film had lots of opportunities for comedy throughout the script. Some dozes of romance, a triangle of sorts and then of course a thrilling cricket match towards the end.
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey had a disastrous weekend of around 3.50 crore nett. The film started with 1 crore nett on Friday and Saturday and Sunday were just slightly better.
The film is a horrific disaster as a major film has never seen collections this low for the weekend. Its probably the first time ever that a major film had show cancellations on the first day itself. Show Cancellations are a regular occurrence for films like Dus Tola and A Flat but it is not expected from a film like Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey.
The weekend collections in Delhi/UP were just 60 lakhs and East Punjab only 25 lakhs. To put this into perspective is that a big theatrical failure like Break Ke Baad had the same collections on day one.
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey is likely to wrap its lifetime business at just 6 crore nett and a disastrous distributors share of less than 3 crore..
even if it did a bit more than 6 crores, even if it did 10 crores which is hardly likely it would still be a worse result than UJ. At some level I think the box office of this film defies all theorizing!
Yesterday watched ‘KHJS’.
Liked it. And yes half the theatre was empty but who ever saw it clapped when the ends were rolling with ‘vante mataram’. It was so nice to watch a different movie which really never not once compromised. Neither in content nor in making it bogus masala like todays movies.. The story was told in simple yet pure form.
Hats off to Abhishek that even after failures he has kept choosing good scripts which are sensible.
And fell sorry for todays audiences/generation who avoid movies which are rich in content and dont like subtle acting and look for nonsensical cinema.
Still hoping for the day when masses again start enjoying good cinema and distancing from multiplex movies.
This now makes it 4 flops out of 6 movies that Gowarikar has made….Let’s not even count his first one and it’s still 3 out of 5. This guy needs to get out of his period drama mode and make something completely different. An action film with someone like Ranbir would be a good start…
It’s not fair to count anything he did before Lagaan. he clearly began a new chapter of his career with the latter. I think everyone’s being too harsh on him. I too have criticized him on certain grounds but he has a certain integrity as a director. The box office cannot be the ultimate arbiter when it comes to deciding a director’s quality. But yes if you don’t deliver hits often enough you might become extinct. Both he and Bhansali will have problems on the next project. Bhansali just has very expensive projects. Gowariker has failed with far too many stars and the best result since Lagaan which was JA itself had too high an opportunity cost for that sort of budget which is why UTV cut him off after that film. I am reminded of J P Dutta who started off with a magnificent film in Ghulami (still to my mind the best commercial film of the last 25 years or more and then had failures in three big projects of the time (Yateem, Hathyar, Batwara). All three films were strong films but none of them worked. Again Dutta’s sense of ‘time’ was very different from that of his audience. He then tried a much more commercial Kshatriya which was easily his worst film. He then reinvented himself with his war films where each one has something to recommend it. I am not a great fan of Border but the first half of Refugee was fantastic (it came apart in the second). and I am a huge fan of LoC despite the director’s indulgence here at certain levels. It is visually a very impressive film on many counts. UJ I think is overall one of his best directed films. One might not have a taste for the subject/story, that’s a different matter. After UJ his career was basically over, he’s been trying to get something going ever since. Again sometimes you have major talents who are just not in sync with the ‘rhythms’ of their age in terms of what audiences expect. It’s one thing to make different subjects and quite another to operate with a different sense of time. I don’t necessarily see a way out for the Duttas or Gowarikers of the world. Bhansali fares better as long as he limits himself to love stories (Black is an exception) or a subject that has appeal among family audiences. But again his films are always too expensive and have almost never showed proportionate returns. In any case with these sorts of directors it’s not really as much about switching subjects. Gowariker just wouldn’t make the sort of action film to appeal to everyone.
The other aspect that is less often considered vis-a-vis Abhishek’s box office issues is his physicality. the kinds of roles that would do greatest justice to his physicality are not the subjects that are usually the most audience-friendly ones in this age. What would today’s audience do with Sholay or Deewar? For art or even meaningful entertainment to occur in a defining sense there must be a certain coincidence with the sociology of the age as well. Abhishek would have prospered in the 70s. Today there aren’t necessarily good enough script for his sort of brooding presence and acting skills. Now of course Bachchan was fantastic even in the likes of AAA. But those ‘comedies’ nonetheless incorporated enough ‘masala’. So Bachchan still got the chance to do action and so forth. But again Abhishek too doesn’t have a problem when he does BM or Dostana. The multliplexes are on board for the ‘metrosexual’ Abhishek. But this is not the best way to highlight his persona. Also on a Yuva sort of terrain his advantage over his contemporaries in just about every sense is pretty obvious. In Dostana the same gets reduced even if people love him here. Much as the arc of the angry young man could be traced with films like Zanjeer or Deewar or Kaala Pathar or what have you, not Abhimaan even if again people loved Bachchan in the latter. Once one gets that defining arc one can then venture into other kinds of cinema. But how can that come about in such a synthetic age? First off there aren’t the scripts but even if there were there isn’t the audience. Not that I’m calling for a simple ‘repeat’ of the 70s. Not at all! That would be completely uninteresting. Nor am I even positing a symmetry between father and son. But one also has to realize that the ‘event’ forms the star and nurtures the signature. Bachchan wasn’t in Zanjeer what he was in Deewar or what he eventually became in Lawaaris. So on and so forth. Other than Rathnam or RGV no one has explored this aspect of Abhishek’s persona consistently. Rohan Sippy might be another one. Ultimately it’s not just about doing Bazmee or Abbas-Mustaan or whoever. These might be solid commercial opportunities but these too leave unanswered the question of physicality. Because commercial cinema is built on exploiting this aspect of the star. In this sense even a lot of the riskier stuff Abhishek does doesn’t necessarily address this side of the equation. Of course it is somewhat ironic that precisely because Abhishek can be effective doing a variety of things and certainly seems to impress the directors that matter that he doesn’t necessarily have to develop a core image. Which would not be an issue if most of the films were commercial. But when you do a lot of ‘offbeat’ or risky stuff where you are essentially playing ‘character’ and you don’t do commercial films often enough it becomes a set of confused signals for the audience. Abhishek’s own ‘error’ here (for a commercial industry) is not playing signature often enough or just settling for character portrayal. This is defensible for an ‘actor’ but not a ‘star-actor’ because in any commercial industry audiences want stars to act (when they are esteemed for this reason) as opposed to stars shedding their signature completely and becoming simply actors. Note for example how Bachchan (whose instincts can never be questioned as actor but neither as star) in Mukherjee films like Mili or Jurmana is doing very different parts but nonetheless performing in a way that easily connects him with his star signature or audience expectations. De Niro displays his signature all the time in his work. very few films are exceptions to this. On the other hand Daniel Day Lewis completely metamorphoses from film to film because he has never been ‘star’ in the same way. Abhishek has chosen to follow the latter school of thought in some ways though the problem is that you cannot have a De Niro-like path but play it like Day Lewis. All of this is not necessarily intended as a criticism of Abhishek. But it’s a way of trying to understand the mismatch that often occurs between Abhishek’s work and his audience. It’s not an easy puzzle to solve. Bollywood today (unlike say Tamil cinema) is extremely resistant to the ‘authentic’ and has been for a while. But to the extent that one can go about it (I said this after Raavan also) a relatively unique path will have to be forged by Abhishek which will involve working with the ‘present’ but also subverting it. In short a strategy is required which I think goes beyond just doing obvious commercial films. Success too can contain a level of illusion as much as failure.
As a general matter, one should also raise the question of time, of the “personal time” (i.e. time personal to the viewer) that modern technology makes possible (Fellini’s words about the viewer becoming a petty tyrant thanks to VCR/home viewing technology come to mind) That is, when cinema becomes increasingly focused on providing stimuli, AND where home viewing technology has given birth to a generation that demands great control and “consumability”, what hope can films that need time, that need to percolate, have? Who would give Sholay time in this day and age? Even in America, is it a surprise that the best/smartest stuff tends to come from ambitious TV serials – where something like The Wire has precisely that TIME (and a producer commitment that enables them to continue for months, there isn’t really the pressure to demonstrate strong ratings in week 1 or even 3) that is denied the Big Hollywood Blockbuster?
absolutely.. and Fellini said what he did in the 80s.. wonder what he would have thought today! The Sholay example is particularly apt. Even in its day it took Sholay at least a week to register with the audience. A lot of people were just jolted on an initial viewing and weren’t quite sure how to take it!
in Hollywood Ridley Scott’s example is instructive. Consider the pace and atmospherics of an earlier work like the Duellists or even Alien. For that matter Blade Runner works hard at establishing a certain mood (though I’ve always considered it overrated in other ways). You then compare it with his contemporary stuff and most of it is so uninteresting. I found Robin Hood quite appalling. Did like the director’s cut of Kingdom of Heaven quite a bit. American Gangster was very engaging too. But in general his cinema is just so predictable these days, irrespective of the subject. Hollywood too is much like Bollywood. Compare the edgier works that came out in the mid-late 60s and then through the late 70s or so with ‘serious’ attempts today and there’s not even a comparison. It’s completely predictable, cynical cinema that is just trying to win awards. It’s not bad, just anodyne.
something did go terribly wrong with KHJJS.. even though many thought it wont work, the numbers it has pulled up are very shocking to say the least.
perhaps the audience simply isnt ready to see a historical on a subject they are mostly not aware of.. and the poor promotion didnt help either..if anyone is to be blamed, its the marketing team..
It has come as a shock not just to the owners of Sarb cinema in Jalandhar but to the entire trade. One is referring to the opening of Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey at the cinema on Friday, December 3. The first show’s collection was a pathetic Rs. 2,800 at Sarb, probably among the lowest ever collection in the history of the cinema. As if this shock wasn’t bad enough, the second show at the cinema witnessed zero attendance because of which it had to be cancelled! Yet another dubious record for the cinema. Ashutosh Gowariker, whose Lagaan had been nominated for the Oscar for the best foreign film, at the helm of affairs of KHJJS, Abhishek Bachchan and Deepika Padukone as its main protagonists – and this is the kind of initial the film has managed! Sarb cinema of Jalandhar has, in its entire history, never had to cancel a show of a film on the opening day! The story in the rest of India may not be as horrendous as in Jalandhar but then, it isn’t much better either!
Among all the other factors discussed about the reasons for KHJJS’s failure, one I haven’t seen mentioned is the price of movie tickets, especially multiplex tickets. They have reached such levels that they now need to become a budget item for most people. On various forums I have read comments like, “I will wait for X film to come on TV/dvd, and save my money for Y film which will be coming in a month or two.” People talk of film budgets or star remunerations, but I haven’t seen this fact mentioned in such discussions. Now, in considering “competition”, a film needs to look at not only what other films are releasing along with it, or in a week or two from it, but in another month or two. In other words, people need to take a long range view.
Another comment I have seen frequently, here and elsewhere, is that audiences only want “mindless comedies” like Golmal. But this ignores the fact audiences have been rejecting all genres of films of late — Action Replay (a comedy by the current comedy king Akshay Kumar), Kites, Guzaarish, Rakta Charitra, and now KHJJS. On AR I have seen some Akshay fans post that they would wait and save their money for TMK, which makes perfect economic sense. But I think it’s a sad day when people need to manage their movie spending as carefully as managing an investment portfolio.
true but that would explain a low initial, not something close to zero! Also on AR and TMK releasing close together there have been other times when multiple Akshay releases have all got off to flying starts.
As a general matter though I don’t disagree that ticket prices probably exaggerate the preferences of the audience. In other words if you didn’t want to watch Guzaarish you might be persuaded at lower ticket rates. Which by the way is another disadvantage different subjects even with major stars have.
But this “close to zero” collection wasn’t just for KHJJS, it was also the case for Rakta Charitra, which also had a director of note and a reasonably well-known and liked star.
RGV always gets zero collections unless he has the BAchchans and more precisely Abhishek in a film. It’s just a fact. Rakta Charitra was never going to make a penny out of Hindi.
maximum city (aamir and boyle)
xtreme city (srk and schrader)
_____________________________
i am unaware whether its rumours.. or not as its gathering momentum!
OK, following in Rooney’s off topic steps, I just found this really intriguing video. Does anyone know what occasion it was made for? The non-Hindi stars seem to have been singing/lipsynching in their own languages, which was later dubbed over into Hindi.
There is sound picture sync problem but whole song is in hindi. I do remember when thet started showing on doordarshan. I don’t think there was any special occasion.
Watched Monday evening Show of KHJJS (7PM – 10 PM) at PVR. It has a capacity of almost 400 people.
Guess what, me and my wife, had the entire theater to ourselves !!
rks – thats exactly what I told her I was actually thinking wish it was our anniversary yesterday
My observation after looking at the movie was… people like good cinema, bad cinema, just about anything as long as it has some entertainment value !!
If you ask me how I felt, well I was not impressed at all with the movie. Its not funny, its not tragic, it does not evoke patriotism. Quite Lame, in my opinion. Don’t know why the critics had to say such amazing stuff about the movie.
I enjoyed all the attention though which the PVR staff was showering on us and I guess we’ve never eaten so much while watching a movie
Watched KHJJS in a single screen theater in Kolkata on Sunday. Theater was 50% packed.
I went for the movie with average expectations and that’s due to the mixed reviews it had received. Taran and faridoon both the Indiafm guys had given it 4 stars even before the release of the movie. This raised my expectation quite high. But whenever Taran gives early reviews I know something is wrong there. Specially the same person had once rejected movies like Swades and CDI. Then came reviews of well known reviewers and all of them were of the opinion that movie is an average one.
After finishing the movie I realized this is not even close to Jodha Akbar forget about Lagaan and Swades. An average movie for me also. Major issue for me was Abhishek portrayal of Surjya Sen. I could not figure out the person Surjya sen. The person I was seeing onscreen was Abhishek bachhan. AG did not even bothered to work on Abhishek’s looks. Story was linear and predictable. Music and BGM both were big letdown. Shantanu Moitra could have been a far better option.
For me all the previous movies of Ashutosh be it lagaan/Swades/JA have repeat value. I have watched them repeatedly (even though all these r over 3 hours), whenever they show these on TV. But don’t think I can ever go through KHJJS again.
One has to really stick through a low key first half to get to the very engaging 2nd half.
Abhishek’s portrayal was low key. He really doesn’t have those hero type moments I think many expected. The movie to me wasn’t so much about Surjya Sen but about that group that rebelled. It was more an ensemble movie.
yes it was about the event of that attack.. some of the reviewers felt Surjya Sen hadn’t been adequately built up but the film isn’t a biopic.. it picks up ‘in the midst’… which is of course a commercial problem when the audience isn’t aware of most of the history..
“Don’t know why the critics had to say such amazing stuff about the movie.”
Whee do you read these reviews. Please don’t consider stuff from Taran and others who are invited to previews before the film release. Other bonafide critics like Rajeev Masand, Mayank Shekhar have given it 2 stars or 2.5 stars are best and have called it utterly boring affair. The public is in total sync with the critics here. As was the case with Guzaarish.
the other day you made a similar claim about Abhishek not getting good reviews! The many links below disprove both claims. There were in addition a few articles in the media about how the film had got ‘rave reviews’. They don’t put up such pieces for a film that’s been mauled! But in any case the many reviews below should hopefully ‘persuade’ you! I see though you’ve created an opening for yourself by calling only those critics who didn’t like the film as ‘bona fide’!
LOL! I have never set store by 99% of Indian film journalists. My only problem with Utkal here is that one can dislike a movie or performance or whatever but one doesn’t need to ‘twist’ the facts. There were very many positive reviews for the film. Having said that I’m surprised (and I brought this up in the original thread too) about Utkal’s insistence on the ‘reviews’ because with Guzaarish they were a lot more positive and he still hated the film. One should be consistent. If you like or dislike something, the ‘rest’ shouldn’t matter very much. Unless of course it’s an argument along critical lines where one should be willing to get informed by the right sort of opinion.
To say Hollywood is just as bad as Bollywood is plain wrong imo. The former still has craft, if not the edgiest subjects. Just look at some films released this year – Social Network, Inception, Shutter Island and Hereafter. In fact, imo they weren’t just executed well but also had edgy subjects. Even a routine actioner like Unstoppable is done with a lot of class and style and I am not talking about better special effects.
I just don’t think there is any comparison. Bollywood is still far, far behind.
Shutter Island though is by an old timer. Much as Mani Rathnam is not necessarily evidence of vitality in the present generation (of course this isn’t true in Tamil where there has been something of a renaissance in recent times.. one astonishingly superior to 99% of Hindi cinema). Fincher or Nolan are a bit like Mehra or Bhardwaj (or have your pick). I didn’t find Inception anything special and Nolan is an interesting director but so far I don’t believe he’s made a genuinely ‘great’ film nor Fincher for that matter (haven’t seen Social Network). I’d probably take Aronovsky over both. But my larger point wasn’t that there wasn’t good work coming out of Hollywood, just that it wasn’t as radical as the comparable films of the late 60s-late 70s period. We’re talking about a generation which included Coppola, Scorsese, Altman, Pakula, Penn, Bogdanovich, Lumet (started out much earlier but some of his most iconic stuff belongs to this decade), Pollack (similarly), Woody Allen, Kubrick (Hollywood career), Mazursky. I’m sure I’m missing a few here. They’re obviously not all of the same eminence but you have some very iconic and important films even among the lesser names. Relative to what was happening in Hollywood prior to these films these were a shock to the system in many ways. Today we have on the other hand interesting films that are predictable in the sense that their questioning seems bland. These films are not ahead of the audience. Much as RDB though a strong film in many ways cannot be compared to the best of the 70s or even some of Dutta’s best work. Because it’s political interrogation, it’s social critique is too ‘obvious’ if not tame. But on its own it’s still better than most of what’s out there. I similarly don’t find Kaminey radical in any way. So on and so forth. There are exceptions are there are in Hollywood but these don’t define a trend. When I visit or revisit some of those older Hollywood films, even the lesser works, I still detect an edge in them that contemporary Hollywood attempts seem to lack. In an odd sense though sometimes Bollywood on its very best days is more ‘radical’ relative to its industry compared to Hollywood in the same sense. Consider Dil Se in 1998. How many films even today are edgier than this? Whether one likes it or not is a different matter. A D6 attempts very interesting things. Again whether it is flawed or not is another matter and in a sense the ‘flaws’ are precisely what ‘history’ sometimes settles. Films that can be completely embraced in the present by critics are clearly not disturbing their deepest assumptions. This wasn’t true once. Some of the greatest filmmakers were royally panned by critics and provoked complete negativity in audiences. I don’t know if it was A O Scott or someone else who wondered when the last time was that a film was booed by the audience (by this standard the hysteria over Raavan suggests it was doing something right!). This sounds facile but is quite right. So many films in the 70s just didn’t find an audience nor were these completely loved by critics. I would actually expand this discussion and say the same for foreign cinema. There were very many filmmakers who were once mauled and those very same films are now considered among the greatest. Today ‘foreign’ cinema is predictable for the most part. Some very interesting films, ‘good’ films but hardly path-breaking ones. Now one might make an argument (which I have some sympathy for) that the great age of cinema is essentially behind us and in a global sense. Though it’s the youngest art/entertainment form it’s seen ‘death’ most early on!
Disagree totally on Nolan Satyam…..I think he’s one of the very best we have today and from MEMENTO to INCEPTION has proved it time and time again..same for THE SOCIAL NETWORK!
I am not disagreeing with the statement that Hollywood today is nowhere near as good as it was in the 60s-70s period but with the one that both Hollywood and Bollywood are more or less equally bankrupt. Just on the level of craft, Bollywood is so far behind. They still haven’t learned some basic editing techniques. And you may not consider Inception a great film but I have not sat through anything half as cerebral from Bollywood in years.
I meant Bollywood relative to its past.. but I agree with you on the rest.. wouldn’t take Inception over the best of Bollywood on ‘cerebral’ grounds though..
Inception is both cerebral and derivative/inspired. It’s a perfect blend of ‘ideas’ and ‘action’. What’s there to really complain? Even its fiercest critics will have to admit it’s at least a seductive experience.
Now if you are ready to pay me, I’m ready for multiple inceptions — Abhishek is the greatest star-actor of his generation!
I had reservations about Inception: an earlier note: “I saw Inception earlier tonight, and was more impressed than spellbound by this tale of espionage and loss set in the dreams of its protagonists. For all the talk and representations of dreams in the film,what was missing from every instance of a dream here was what Freud would have called “the uncanny,” that strangeness that is the very texture of a dream . In Inception, every aspect of the dreams can be accounted for, leading to an effect more akin to that of a puzzle, or a Rubik’s Cube. Or, most obviously, of a video game: the compartmentalized layers of the dreams in Inception are the products of a post-electronic gaming era, and have little to do with the imaginative, dense, mysterious tapestries seen only in half-light, conjured up for me by the word “dream.” As a result, the film, while always gripping, felt more than a little impoverished, missing that touch of madness that suffused the last DiCaprio film, Shutter Island.”
That’s a valid point, Qalandar. What I’d like to add is that Nolan doesn’t seem to be interested in ‘dreams’ alone. He has clearly manufactured a story that borrows elements from a thriller, a heist/crime caper, sci-fi (Matrix), noir and perhaps many more genres. At the same time, Inception as a script, does offer much to chew upon. The usual themes that pervade Nolan’s universe (persecution complex, disorientating/unreliable memories, the sense of severe loss and its aftermath, exploration of the “gray” shades of human behaviour etc) are all present along with the multi-layered idea of the different levels of dreams/subconscious. There are reams devoted to explaining key plot points on the internet. It’s not a shallow film by any means.
Like ‘The Dark Knight’ this is a film that has too much stuff packed in it. There’s a whole lot happening and it can be viewed as a drawback. Nolan can be faulted for trying to cover all bases and depending on the side a viewer’s interests lie (artistic or attention deprived), one can fault the film for not doing justice to either. The film works for me because I get the experience of ‘immersion’ (the ‘spell’ as it were) and also a few points to ponder. It’s a film that provides me with a stimulus on both the visceral and the intellectual level. That’s why I can’t see why anyone should be disappointed with the film.
On KHJJS, I think it’s time that some of the blame point towards Abhishek. His credibility as a viable star is not only in question, it’s at the point at which people are simply not interested in him at all. Bollywood is strange in the way certain stars can make a comeback from obsolescence, but no major star would ever wish to prove that theory!
It’s looking grim and bleak for Abhishek. The high hopes post Guru have been dashed and how!
Saket,
I think there is some truth to what you are saying. But, I believe there has to be a modifier. D6 and Raavan did not have similar fates as there WAS curiosity and interest. But, the films didnt leave upto the audience expectations. Both were fine efforts IMO,but not what the audience wanted.
And, the fact that he is getting ‘plum’ projects means implies that there is an interest in him, tho not in his oaff beat ventures. iIne cannot club KHJJS with D6 and Raavan, as KHJJS is in a different class altogether! People had no interest in the subject, whatsoever. And, the lacklustre promos and Gowariker’s reputation further killed whatever interest might have been there. And, the film itself didnt find much favor amongst a large section of those who saw it, meaning there was going to be no favorable WOM.
Still, it does mean that Abhi cannot sell enough to have people turn up for uninviting subjects, like Aamir. I, honestly dont feel that KHJJS would have any differently with any other major str, except that they probably wouldnt have accepted it and if they did, they would have tried to influence Gowariker’s handling of the film and the marketing. May be bigger opening but still would have been a resounding flop with other stars.
Sure, this hasnt helped his cause but I dont think it spells doom for Abhi. But, yes the pressure to deliver a hit is more than ever.
I dont think he has gotten any of the films because of any pressure from his dad.He has certainly benifitted from his lineage but that has been more in temrs of access and curiosity rather than anything else. Just, threw in the last bit as some have been suggesting that the reason he has been around for so long has been becasue of his father.
agreed on all counts.. and the one element that continues to be underestimated with respect to Abhishek is his rebound ability. Earlier it was about attracting prestige projects because that’s what he was primarily focused on. At the moment he’s decided that he needs a few commercial winners right away and he has some safe bets pronto. Not too many stars who could display this at both ends of the equation. Which does not of course mean that he isn’t in serious box office trouble. He needs pretty much a reset at this point. And as importantly he needs the audience to consider him ‘cool’ once more. From Yuva through Guru he more or less had this coalition. The box office, the performances, the cool factor. Since then unfortunately that entire coalition has come apart. Barring Dostana which is too little given all the other releases (but of course here too note how a fairly mediocre attempt in Desi girl became a big deal) and even if it has transcended its gross. He has to put that ‘coalition’ back together. Not expecting anything from Game because I don’t know the director but DMD I believe will begin the turnaround. Because the BM deal gets you enough of a gross or better with the multiplexes, it gets you the cool factor back and there’s enough of a performance moment with this sort of part. Yes it’s set in the Goa drug scene so it won’t be family fare but should be alright with younger audiences. He follows that up with Italian Job and then the Bazmee stuff or whatever. He has Balki and RGV otherwise. Possibly Dostana 2 (though I’d love it if he didn’t do this for other reasons!). And he’s fine. But yeah he can’t afford any more failure at this point irrespective of the reasons. Because KHJJS rightly or wrongly has brought him to ground zero. One doesn’t have to subscribe to the usual foolishness (hey Abhishek’s not a star or whatever) to know this. Because major stars also play by higher standards. And he needs to regain the momentum he’s been continually losing since Guru.
I think it’s stupid to assume that Abhishek’s lasted for 10 years because of his lineage. In fact, after Dhoom 1 to Guru, his career had some serious traction. Not at the level to compete with the top 3 or 4 but pretty much on the upswing.
The problems started post Guru. I love Delhi-6 as a film though I’m not a fan of Raavan. I don’t find any fault in Abhishek picking up these films. He’d be extremely daft if he hadn’t, to be honest. Perhaps he’s just plain unlucky to star in these films, which generated enough curiousity but only derision afterwards. Where I tend to differ from your theory is that KHJJS wasn’t affected by Delhi-6 or Raavan. I think the response to Raavan also killed any interest in KHJJS. Funny as it is, Raavan isn’t seen as a Mani Rathnam failure. It’s seen as an Abhishek one! Very much unfair but that probably explains the abysmal opening of KHJJS.
To some extent the present film culture is to blame. The present day audience doesn’t want to see a film about actors wearing Dhotis & Kurtas inciting a revolution. It’s somehow uncool. I agree that’s a despicable attitude towards cinema, especially if we compare Golmaal’s success against the backdrop.
Having said that, Abhishek’s failures (and here I think Raavan more than Delhi-6 which did receive a slightly better response) killed any chance the film had of getting an opening.
Yes but there had to be something specific to KHJJS also because I believe that a new Mehra or a new Rathnam with Abhishek would get vastly better responses. Which doesn’t mean he had nothing to do with the response.
I’d say that post-Guru he was very close to being considered among the very elite stars, he needed a breakout box office grosser, that never arrived and eventually everything else came apart too.
Part of the reason with those roles is though that Abhishek is much more likely to do risky stuff over and beyond what other stars would do even if they worked with risky directors and/or subjects. So for example Hrithik did a JA with Gowariker, it’s not clear he would have done a KHJJS. Aamir did RDB with Mehra, I am pretty certain he wouldn’t have done D6 in its current form with him. His project with Rathnam never got started, clearly he had some issues. So there are stars who will work in interesting setups based on certain conditions. I can’t blame them because the risks of failure are too great. Abhishek is just willing to go further. Obviously he expected D6 or Raavan to work but I just think that unless he were completely forced to not take up these offers based on his standing he would take similar risks again. I can appreciate this approach. There’s no point in working with an ‘auteur’ if you’re going to add conditions and so forth. I can certainly see either logic here. I will say though that truly great or truly important films in a historic sense are not made just by playing safe. If you get Awara or Sholay or Deewar fantastic but it is far more usual to see the Guru Dutt kind of scenario where the present isn’t kind on you and you’re redeemed later on. What is truly risky and truly radical one way or the other is also that which is ‘out of time’ with respect to the present. Salim-Javed wrote some extraordinary scripts, the greatest of Hindi cinema and they had the miracle of Bachchan to close that gap. Abhishek leaving aside everything else has just not had those sorts of scripts. This is just not the age for it.
Agreed. More so with the ‘this is not the age for it’ part. It’s not the age for being a cultured viewer. Perhaps this was always the case (earlier filmmakers survived because there weren’t that many entertainment options!) but the levels to which films are meant to be ‘consumed’ these days, there’s not much difference between a film a box of popcorn!
well said.. and again we talk about Indian contexts here but the same is true the world over.. Unstoppable is a superb thriller but it’s an old-fashioned kind of film. It will do about 75-80m, a fraction of what a similar film with explosions and what not would make. Pelham 123 made even less than this. In every avenue of life we are assaulted by audio/video stimuli. Cable news is itself pornographic in its effects. Then there are all the other screens we constantly deal with from our laptops (constant scrolling, switching between windows etc) to our iPhones. ADD becomes the normal human condition soon enough. The films which people find ‘boring’ today are vastly different from those people would have found ‘boring’ in say the 70s. Then there are other ‘sociological’ factors. In urban environments around the world lives are far more ‘stressful’ than they once might have been, the sheer rhythm of things is much more rapid by an order of magnitude. People then at the end of a long day or week where they’re navigating subway/train rides and traffic jams and workdays where they just have to be more and more productive every single day just want to relax or watch brain-dead entertainment. I can certainly understand this. Plus there is in India the new phenomenon of taking clients to movies. This has filled the ‘game’ space of the US for example where clients are regularly taken to sports events. In India there isn’t anything besides cricket and here other than 20/20 the format isn’t really conducive to business arrangements. But you have the movies. Are you likely to take a client to Hum Tum or Khakee? Mostly the former! Finally there are many people for whom it’s the family night out at the multiplex. They regard it as a complete movie and meal package. Again they’re not looking for anything more than popcorn entertainment. So just as a structural matter things are very difficult for producers of serious cinema. In the West you have enough of a minority audience for limited release films and so forth. Not so in India where the idea is ‘hey if it’s not Race it’s good enough for DVD!’. Piracy is a huge issue, it offers an option where there is no such option, at least on that scale in the US or elsewhere in the West. It’s all a rather dismal state of affairs. And again because of all these factors audiences are very unlikely to have those attention spans or to even have the will to develop them. It’s not even entertainment anymore at any level much as it’s not the news or the reality show or whatever. It’s just a set of stimuli. We are all part of this very same world. It’s upto us to develop those greater attention spans. But I suppose one could do well without this also!
but the enigma is that still abhi is getting films right and left! have all the film-makers gone nuts??? i think there will be very serious thinking on abhi’s credibility as a SOLO HERO post this failure…..he might be a safer choice in multi-hero projects……..where he doesn’t have to share the entire blame of failure…..
“but the enigma is that still abhi is getting films right and left!”
Now isn’t that something to think about?!
In terms of his upcoming films he has the Balki solo, DMD was of course already in the works (Rana Daggubati is a factor in Andhra) as was Game. Italian Job has Bobby Deol and Neil Mukesh (hardly the kinds of stars to take the ‘blame’ off Abhishek!). But yeah no doubt he has to build up his box office rather seriously from here. This guy can’t be kept down though one way or the other!
out of these, GAME looks promising (abbas-mastaan project it is?) – the rest will tank (only BALKI’s film will not loose money as he would make it on a shoe-string budget but then it won’t be a big commercial success also) – what else? Dhoom 3 – ya, those kind of projects will work for abjr.
No Game is an Abhinay Deo film and he’s making his debut so nothing can be said about this. DMD is Rohan Sippy, Italian Job is Abbas-Mustaan, there’s Hera Pheri 4 with BAzmee (with him in the Akshay role, Nana in Paresh’s and Dutt in Shetty’s part) and Rohit Shetty (Bol Bachchan with Devgan..), there’s one with Balki and RGV (which also includes Bachchan and Dutt). No D3 at the moment. He has a lot going for him still! LOL, you might be disappointed!
“LOL, you might be disappointed!”
i will be mighty happy if more than 2 films out of these work for abjr – but i m already so much disappointed with the spate of flops he has given that anything more will be icing on the cake – industry is loosing money big time on this guy – whether u want to put him on high pedestal or make a temple of him – facts (rajen wanted me to state some facts on the correct names! – well, i may be wrong there but it is there for all to see how much money industry must have lost on this guy’s films in last few years!!!) btw, rajen – u don’t have to take me seriously as i don’t take u ever 🙂 chill!
But Idea there is a certain lack of credibility with what you’re saying for this reason — when Abhishek has the 30-35 crore flop you don’t say it doesn’t matter.. with Guzaarish this is suddenly ok just because KHJJS is infinitely worse? With Guzaarish you said you don’t care about the box office at all because you liked the film. Doesn’t the goalpost keep changing. And I would take it seriously if someone said Abhishek has had too many failures (something no one sane can deny) but then I remember the sky falling just with JBJ! Just one film after Guru! Similarly all those who now seem to have very fond memories of his ’04/’05 weren’t exactly saying this at the time. neither at the time of Guru. So in my view the argument is always framed a certain way to ‘diss’ Abhishek. And while the latter’s box office might have provided everyone a great deal of ammunition this itself does not excuse a certain lack of integrity on the part of many who will use any and every argument, often even mutually exclusive ones at the same time! Hrithik has had two big flops this year. Forget Abhishek. Why isn’t anyone coming down hard on him?! What’s he had since ’06? Three releases. JA was just decent relative to its scale and then these two. He hardly has the greatest lineup coming up either. Whether commercially or prestige-wise. I’m not making a case for anyone to ‘attack’ Hrithik but Abhishek with one tenth this record would be getting hit. And we saw this with JBJ. We even saw this with UJ where he was getting mauled for failing in a heroine-centric period piece! I have myself said he’s hit a certain ground zero at the box office with KHJJS. It can’t be more starkly framed than that. But let’s keep the debate honest!
Satyam, well said – i recently revisited SHARARAT (my favorite abhishek film) – if i disliked him, i wudn’t do that – and mind it! i did watch this film only for him – i can watch REFUGEE n no. of times only for him and kareena (incidentally, KAREENA – i feel has a worse track record than abjr – and again she keeps getting films! so abjr is not alone in this league) but i want for abjr is a clean BO success record something like his dad had (forget khans and roshans and kapoors) – and he has been given enough chances – DRONA (a superhero film), RAAVAN, Kheile….(PATRIOTIC film),…..in many different genres, he had the opportunity to deliver a solo-hero hit like BIG B did (and he did it with worse scripts than abjr’s film-scripts – as we both know it) – so a big question is – why abjr is not able to do it???? because, paying public (most of that segment) has not accepted him as a HERO (a solo star who can carry films on his own shoulder regardless of script/director/producer etc…) – do u agree with this or not? i m not talking about his potential (which u always seem to be mixing up with my comments as if i am someone who believes that he has no potential)
Kareena cannot be compared with him (incidentally she now has 3I and Golmaal! one of the magazines has called her the top actress!) because no matter how big Indian films are structurally not dependent on female stars the way they are on male ones.
On the Abhishek films that haven’t worked I don’t think there is any case that any of those would have worked with any other star. With the possible exception of KHJJS which might have done much better with Aamir. All the rest would not have worked with any other star exactly the way they are.
As for the Bachchan thing surely he cannot be blamed for not being Bachchan! But let’s look at reality here. Bachchan’s poor films of the 80s were usual masala fare that offered the audience the ‘goods’. That sort of stuff works today also. Bachchan could get it done in terrible films but he could still on his own make up for these. However those films weren’t ‘terrible’ the way Drona is terrible. They were entertaining formats greatly elevated by Bachchan. In the 70s though he lived through the greatest scripts of Hindi cinema. But when he did the hrishikesh Mukherjee films, specially later the returns were nowhere close. The principal problem with any analysis of Abhishek’s career is that unless one can make a plausible argument that those exact films would work with someone else the only case one has made is that Abhishek has been foolish with his choices. And we’ve seen this elsewhere. Hrithik couldn’t get to D6/Raavan level with Guzaarish. Those films were disliked or hated, got bad or terrible reviews, Guzaarish got great reviews in every sense and the WOM was good enough too. What happened? How did a massive scale film like JA open? It had to depend on WOM eventually. That’s not a star opening a film is it? What happened to Swades? This was the Lagaan director’s first film post-Lagaan and had a very strong SRK at the time. And Swades too wasn’t hated like Raavan or some of the other stuff Abhishek has done. When JBJ flopped I made the claim that it wouldn’t have worked with anyone and Akshay proved it soon enough with Tashan and CCTC, films that did maybe even worse than JBJ. And if the audience hasn’t accepted Abhishek as a solo hero how did Guru do so well when he was pretty much the whole film and had the most larger than life role of all his films? Again all of these objections I raise are so obvious that it seems hard for me to believe these haven’t occurred to you on your own! Ranbir had a big one in APKGK and then a complete loser in Rocket Singh right after. What happened? He just had AA recently. What happened? And all these other stars are still doing films far safer than Abhishek’s attempts. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t on the one hand call D6 or Drona or Raavan terrible and then turn around and also state Abhishek wasn’t accepted in them. What happened to Hrithik with Kites? This was his strength genre. Why couldn’t he save it? Again I just find it extremely hard to believe that you’re completely satisfied with Abhishek’s performance in Refugee or Shararat but have found him disappointing in every recent film! Even many of your examples just ‘kill with kindness’. Look at your analogies. C’mon!
I watched the film and found it very boring frankly. And I have really like all other Gowariker movies so far except that Rashee atrocity. It’s not Abhi’s fault though – there is nothing great about his performance here, but he was definitely competent.
Business Talk With Taran Adarsh
Questions that need to be addressed
December 8, 2010 – 07:42 IST
Between November first week and December first week, in a span of just one month, the industry is poorer by at least Rs. 80 crores, courtesy biggies like ACTION REPLAYY, GUZAARISH and now KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY. I am not including the remaining releases [low cost and medium-budget fares] that disappeared without creating any kind of a flutter or excitement at the box-office.
Is the common man in no mood to spend his hard-earned money on films? Has he suddenly lost interest or is his interest limited to a handful of projects only? Is the barrage of new releases responsible for making him overtly choosy? Is the moviegoer interested in watching films that provide entertainment, which transports him to a world of make-believe, not serious/realistic cinema? Are ticket prices too steep for him to venture out for each and every movie, week after week? Are we churning out bad films and therefore, getting what we deserve?
Films like GUZAARISH and KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY enjoyed a strong word of mouth, but, unfortunately, the lavish praises and applause didn’t translate into great numbers at the box-office. Films like GUZAARISH and KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY may have dared to narrate hitherto unknown stories, but the economics led to their downfall. Films like GUZAARISH and KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY have to be made in tight budgets and released in limited screens. But, sadly, it’s all about extracting the best in the opening weekend itself and if you don’t score in those three days, the obituary of a film is penned before the weekend comes to a close.
That brings me to another pertinent question: Is the era of word of mouth over? Do films pick up after an unenergetic and lazy start at the ticket window? Well, films like BAGHBAN, TAARE ZAMEEN PAR, A WEDNESDAY and PAA did embark on a shaky note, but gathered strength before Day 1 came to a close. But these are isolated cases. The flow of new films is so strong these days, with each week witnessing 3/4/5 new films every week, that the chances of sustaining beyond the opening week is getting more and more remote.
As far as KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY is concerned, the film was never expected to fetching a flying start, a la DABANGG or GOLMAAL 3, but the trade was confident that the film would gather steam if the audience feedback was strong enough. However, the disheartening and off-putting numbers prove that the film didn’t get the audience mandate, despite a good section of movie-going audience liking the film. The film is an unmitigated disaster!
The Hindi version of RAKHT CHARITRA 2 – one of the bests attempts of RGV, in my opinion – may not have worked for various reasons [too much blood and gore and minimal promotion?], but the economics were right. The makers should recover the costs from the Tamil and Telugu versions. Notwithstanding the fate of the Hindi version, its investors should smile when they glance at their balance sheet.
PHAS GAYE RE OBAMA, which was released in limited shows at limited screens, in a handful of cities, started on a feeble note, but picked up at several screens on Saturday and Sunday. The low cost film may not amass a fortune from India theatrical business, but the good word of mouth should ensure healthy returns from Satellite and Home Video rights.
But then also we can not say Guzaarish had a good word of mouth as we can see this from its trending. It opened far better than KHJJS but that’s obvious. Anyday HR is far bigger crowd puller than Abhi.
doubt this film will do more than 25 crores total. The BOI numbers have been rather liberal here. But yeah no comparison with KHJJS which won’t even do 10 crores!
There will huge fireworks at the box office next year on Diwali if everything goes to schedule. If everything was to play out well then there are three film’s aiming for a Diwali 2011 release at present.
The three films are Ra1 with Shahrukh Khan and Kareena Kapoor, Desi Boyz with Akshay Kumar and John Abraham and Bol Bachan with Ajay Devgn and Abhishek Bachchan. This would easily be the biggest clash ever if they were all to release on Diwali. It remains to be seem what happens to the schedule over the next nine months but it can confidently said today that Diwali cannot accommodate three big films, even two is stretching it
The most important factor for any big release today is to have an open first week because that is when a major film gets two thirds of its domestic theatrical revenue.
would be insane for all three to release on the same day.. doubt that’s going to happen. Even two shouldn’t come on that date. Also if Bol Bachchan is the confirmed title for that film I’m surprised Devgan has agreed to this.
Satyam, the question whether someone else could salvage Abhishek’s flops (D6, Raavan or KHJJS) is a valid one. But there’s also a counter question. Can Abhishek give the sort of opening in an out and out commercial fare like Aamir, SRK, Hrithik, Salman or even Ranbir?
His best opening, not accounting for inflation, has come in Dostana. And if I remember correctly, that didn’t do much more than 25 crores in its first week.
Dostana was 26-28 crores or so in week 1. But this wasn’t the maximum opening he could have had for this genre. Because of the gay theme many family types who would have normally seen this genre stayed away. BnB, Sarkar, Dus all had excellent openings. BM too was very good given it a more niche effort than those other films. Guru actually had an excellent opening for that sort of film. JBJ after becoming a complete disaster following the weekend still pulled in 20 crores. So it clearly started off very well. D6 and Raavan after being complete failures still pulled in 35 crores or so (less if you believe BOI). How many stars have disasters that gross as much as Raavan?! SR for that kind of grim subject did quite well in week 1. By the way I hate to say this but correlate Bachchan’s initials without Abhishek in that entire period and certain sobering facts arise. Not that Bachchan himself has done sensible stuff most of the time.
There are two separate questions to be asked though — can those other stars you mention produce anything comparable to their best openings in the Abhishek films. I doubt it. Their own careers in each case make this obvious. I’ve just offered examples. But pound for pound if everyone did their strength genres what would happen? Er.. the issue here is that Abhishek doesn’t have a strength genre! When BnB or Dus did very well in ’05 why wouldn’t he have continued getting great initials with those genres since the latter have continued to do well?! the thing is initials are maximized with repetition. When stars become attached to a genre and audiences start expecting certain things. Akshay started getting massive initials for his comedies after doing many of them successfully. Earlier the initials were good but not fantastic. This is just a basic box office fact in every industry of the world! So Abhishek has not tied himself to genre. Hence today even when he does a genre that is otherwise strong I wouldn’t expect the sort of initial that another star more attached to the genre would have. Some genres are strong enough to override this as well. Race more or less opened in the same range as D2. Does this mean the stars were comparable?
But let me put it this way — if you have Hrithik in Italian Job versus Abhishek in the same who gets a better opening. Without doubt Hrithik (unless Italian Job pulls a surprise here and gets the biggest possible initial)! This is not news. That’s his genre. Frankly the only way Abhishek can get really massive genres is if he becomes more consistent at the box office. Because that will establish his credibility with the audience. I don’t believe he’ll ever do it just the genre way because he’s not going to stick to a genre. Yeah if he does a Bazmee type deal with some regularity or the Italian Job thing the same way then you’ll see those initials increase. But he doesn’t have that genre linkage. The most obvious path for him after his rise were to either do the metrosexual thing (Dus, BM) or the overman deal (Sarkar, Guru) or something more purely masala like BnB. But he never followed these genres in any consistent sense if at all.
By the way what does Ranbir’s career really prove? Saawriya was a disaster, BeH made as much as D6 (!), APKGK was a big one. Rocket Singh was a total flop even for its scale. Rajneeti was huge (this is hardly the typical release given everything that as stuffed into this one). AA was once again a flop. What’s so spectacular here? Salman shouldn’t be on your list. In the entire past decade he’s been extremely poor at the box office by and large. He’s just reinvented himself with masala recently. Aamir is in a different league altogether. Hrithik hasn’t had a big initial since D2. Not in JA, forget Guzaarish. And Kites would have had one except that it was a washout. Before ’06 his last real success was KNPH (!) not counting K3G. Forget Abhishek. Is his really the most spectacular 10 year career? Specially given he’s been a hit since his very first?
Facts cannot be used selectively. But also you can’t use facts without analysis. So yeah if you want me to say that Abhishek cannot open many commercial genres like some of these others guys I’ll accept that. But without any context whatsoever what does it mean?!
Whose fault is that? Box office history isn’t written by stars who can’t get the best initials.
Ranbir has at least opened APKGK and Raajneeti. And Salman has opened Wanted, not to mention Dabangg. The former actually has a better opening than any Abhishek starrer barring Dhoom-2. That too relying on single screen audiences. Abhishek frankly isn’t in the same league as Salman. He doesn’t have the fan following!
Hrithik still opened Kites to north of 40 crores. SRK opened MNIK to over 40 as well.
Where is Abhishek’s 40 crore opening? Absent that, how can one even call him a star in the same bracket as Aamir, SRK, Hrithik, Salman and Ranbir?
You bring up ‘Race’ as a counterpoint. That’s an anomaly. Like Golmaal-3! The thing about the stars I mention is that they have at least 2 “solo” 40+ crore openings to their name. That’s significant and in my opinion, the only criteria to separate a bonafide star from an aspirant in that category…
‘Whose fault is that? Box office history isn’t written by stars who can’t get the best initials.”
that’s a different debate though.
“Ranbir has at least opened APKGK and Raajneeti.”
Abhishek has opened many films too. I just gave you some examples.
“Hrithik still opened Kites to north of 40 crores. SRK opened MNIK to over 40 as well.”
Don’t believe either initial was north of 40 but yes big enough in each case. Again not sure how this disproves anything I’ve said. You’re making your initial claim with examples. I haven’t disagreed.
“You bring up ‘Race’ as a counterpoint. That’s an anomaly. Like Golmaal-3! ”
Actually Golmaal 2 opened like G3 also. It just didn’t sustain like the latter. Race 2 will open even bigger than the first! Hit comedies by the way are not anomalies.
“The thing about the stars I mention is that they have at least 2 “solo” 40+ crore openings to their name.”
You either do it for inflation or not. If you don’t Salman has just one over 40. hrithik has none. Even if I give you Kites that’s one film. Ranbir has two (accepting APKGK which again might have been below 40). But including inflation, which is the only sane way of doing it, there’s no way you wouldn’t get a 40 crore opening for BnB today. You’d probably get something close for Dus. Sarkar would be 30 crores if not more. Guru would be 30-35 crores.
But again not sure what the debate is. You haven’t shown me how Abhishek’s films do better with other stars. You haven’t shown me how those other stars haven’t been mortal doing their own ‘different’ stuff. The fact that they nonetheless have better box office track records than Abhishek is not debatable (in most if not all cases). But again that I’ve already accepted. Abhishek has some very commercial films coming up now. Even though he hasn’t tackled these genres before let’s see how these open and fare. At least we’d be comparing like for like. You want to compare Kites with D6 but not Kites with Guzaarish!
On Salman by the way for years no really serious Bollywood director was willing to sign him. If he was one of the top stars nonetheless it must have been a well kept secret. he’s definitely reinvented himself with Wanted and now of course with Dabangg. In many ways I think he has a better path ahead than SRK though Salman being Salman is more than likely to mess things up once again.
It seems to me that all you’re saying is if Abhishek gets a 40 crore initial tomorrow you’ll be satisfied! You have a lower bar for him than I do!
BnB, Dus and Sarkar aren’t Abhishek’s hits alone. None of them are solo efforts. No one can neglect Amitabh’s presence in BnB or Sarkar. He was a riot in the former and came in for the lion’s share of the praise in both films!
It’s not about other stars being “mortal” doing different films, it’s about Abhishek being always mortal, whether the films are commercial or different. I’m not comparing Kites with D6, but Kites with Dostana! Do you see the difference?
Salman was down and out, I agree. But he did have a core fan following. He somehow never lost it and regained some momentum post DKD. That and he started playing to his strengths, which is why Wanted and Dabangg worked so well.
“It seems to me that all you’re saying is if Abhishek gets a 40 crore initial tomorrow you’ll be satisfied! You have a lower bar for him than I do!”
Not only me but the scores of others who doubt his credentials as a star. At this point of time, it’s only about numbers. The rest can be debated once those numbers are registered not once, but at least 3 or 4 times.
I have a different take on BnB and Sarkar but even if I didn’t I would have to look at Bachchan’s initials elsewhere and come to a different conclusion but this debate is just getting too long and I’ve a feeling I’m just repeating myself at this point.
The answer is, Saket – No. Not at the moment. At present, all the five you mentioned have a better BO standing than Abhishek.
I think the point here is has Abhi really reached the point f no return and my belief is – NO.
He still has a lot of decent projects on hand and continues to get offers from both commercial and not-so commercial makers. He has enough talent to turn this around. He certainly is in an unenviable position in some ways and each failure ( whether his fault or not) is damaging.
I think all those observations are valid. But, to right him off and to imply he has too many oppurtunities beacause of his lineage, writing off his films before we know enough about them and the myth of sixteen straight flops – these are all idiotic.
Yes, he has the talent. There’s no question about that.
But you have to understand where the skepticism emanates from. He’s just not getting hits! If I had to bet my money on him, I’d have to first go and see a shrink. I’m talking only on purely commercial grounds, of course.
I hope he makes a comeback. I sincerely do but how do I know it’s going to happen? Through luck or otherwise, his films tend to flop. Frankly, after KHJJS, his stock is at an all time low!!
Having said that, I’d like to see him getting solo hits! BW would be a different industry otherwise…
SAKET- clearly theres a problm with abhi here imo!
he has never built a fan base.. and if so.. when ever did movies like Khjjs.. he lacks the concentration and impact level and sincerity.. like his offscreen iamge doesnt go with his roles!!
look at aamir when he promotes a movie he looks the character be it nikumbh, ghajini, or rancho!!
when u do diff stuff u cant carry him like offscreen image.. as ppl of idea fans wont turn up for his movies.. and those who can cant identify with his ads.. or kwk image!
its a image crisis.. he doesnt talk with his audience or connect correctly
Yes, no doubt, we keep coming back to Aamir. There’s no one more adept at marketing movies. I daresay, he’s the best at creating buzz about any movie he’s associated with.
satyam – I have no problem in the defense that you put up for Abhishek. I am perfectly with you when you say that Abhishek has been doing a lot of experimental stuff and maybe his masala fares will tell his true worth. I wish him luck. However I have a problem with your argument when you compare him particularly with Hrithik (maybe also SRK but the comparison it seems has been more with Hrithik). On one hand you say that Hrithik could not open a different film like JA but it had to rely on WOM. However it is ironic that the WOM taht drew the crowd was mostly positive about Hrithik and to some degree Hrithik Ash chemistry not as much about the film so Hrithik has a winner in hands as his performance gets appreciated and the film for its genre does well wordlwide at the BO. Then you say that Hrihtik could not sustain Kites – here your paramter seems to have changed again so what you seem to be suggesting is that whilst Kites did get a very good opening the film capsizes becasue of poor WOM. So you can judge a star’s power either on WOM or opening. The paramters should not change to suit an argument. Even then Kites managed closed to 50 crores in India despite being a very poor film and being rejected. JA manages 60 crores again despite being slow, a period film and what have you. Guzaarish may have fared poorly at the BO but then again Hrithik will emerge as a winner because of his performance. And I willl not even count Hrithik’s BBs.
My point is that whatever Abhishek has to prove he will in his own course of time – I do not think it is essential to compare him with each and every actor and their history to prove a point. No one here is saying that he cannot do it – given the right platform I am sure he will. If Salman can strike back after 17 flops so can Abhishek and that for you can be the closest comparison.
Perhaps I should have been clearer. IF everything you’re saying about JA is right Guzaarish would have worked too. Hrithik got even better reviews here and the film was certainly reviewed as well as JA. The actress was also the very same here. Why were the results so dramatically different?
WOM and opening go hand in hand. No film can run without good or at least average WOM (depending on the genre.. for OSO average is good enough, for JA it has to be good). What happens with films like JA is that the star cannot really attract the audiences in the same way. However once the film is liked the star factor can kick in. Because without a star the film in question would make vastly less even with great WOM. So for example Wednesday makes under 10 crores with excellent WOM. Kites by the way shows Hrithik is great in that genre and therefore the film opened well. Never talked about Kites in any other context. But for this sort of genre opening it well is a given for someone like Hrithik. If hrithid had seen this sort of WOM with JA it wouldn’t have made more than 15-20 crores total! Hrithik has been very mortal since 2006 even including JA. And his blockbusters excluding K3G are four in ten years, three with his father (one with his debut, one in ’03, one in ’06) and D2 (also ’06). he’s had many many high profile failures between KNPH and ’06. He was being written off before KMG arrived! Again since ’06 what’s so great about the record? You don’t act in disasters and save them with good reviews specially when you’ve had Kites the very same year.
On the comparisons these are often forced upon me. In fairness though you also have to see what the competition is or isn’t doing.
There is only one way for Abhi or any other to become a Bonafide Big star and that is to give big huge openers.
Till now Abhi has had some few good openers,nothing ground shaking, not to get into the amount of failures.
The day Abhi starts doing that, why will anyone question it. Fair Game, he will be in the top echelon.
Ofcourse doing different movies come with their own benefits of recognition and praise/acclaim etc, but here we are only talking BO and also that Abhi does has aspirations and does do Commercial movies also.
Every star has been mortal at many points – without naming disaters and flops in anyone’s filmography – I cannot think of anyone who has not had disasters and flops. No one at any given point should be sitting on their past laurels (why just Hrithik) – such are the ways of competition, industry and most importantly the whims of the public. The essence of the arugument – btw not staged by me is about Abhsiehk’s capability as an opener, star etc.
that’s fair Julie but I have brought up SRK’s or Hrithik’s failures only because people often switch the goalpost when it’s Abhishek. In other words the other stars should be taken to task for their failures but at that point suddenly Abhishek becomes an appropriate point of reference. So KHJJS is doing worse than UJ in absolute terms but this hardly saves Guzaarish. That these stars are otherwise ahead of Abhishek even with their failures is not something I’ve ever disputed.
Sure satyam. Failure of KHJJS does not spare Guzaarish. notwithstanding that Hrithik wiill have a lot to gain as an actor – but a flop is a flop and sadly as we have discussed before Indian audience by and large does not have an appetite for good experimental cinema.
That is why I am not writing off Abhishek. He can do well in commercial films particularly out and out multistarrer masala fare.
not sure about this with Deo.. this is the sort of Hollywoodized subject that looks good in previews but can easily be messed up. I am looking for DMD to be an important film If Game works it will be a bonus.
Abhishek’s true opening potential cannot be estimated based on the type of films he has been doing recently just like SRK’s true potential shouldn’t be estimated based on Swades, Paheli, MNIK etc. I think Abhi’s coming films will decide whether he is a star or not. I wish him luck, I think he works hard.
And I think the whole opening thing has sort of become ridiculous now. Now it’s the genre, set-up that decides the opening (see Race, Golmaal 3 etc.) The big opening scenario is becoming more and more like Hollywood now, they have got blockbusters driven by special effects, we have tacky action thrillers and imbecilic comedies.
you make a good point in that genres today drive openings even far more than stars.. the latter ones when they’re smart tend to latch on to the right genres.
I don’t agree. BW is still a very star-centric industry.
And regarding Abhishek’s star status, you can only compare films that he has already done. You can’t make up a “strength” genre for him, if he himself isn’t willing to find one. If he has somehow put a cap on the kind of initial he can generate by doing a certain kind of cinema, that does not provide the excuse to give him a long rope when commercial standards (specifically BO openings) seem to be going north of 80 crores in a week!
You can only judge something based on the evidence in front of your eyes.
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. But analysis is important because not everything can be explained in terms of what’s out there in an obvious sense. So for example if he wasn’t considered a good actor or better than most of his contemporaries why was he landing some very high prestige deals that really any of his contemporaries would have done? SRK wasn’t refusing Rathnam right? but the latter then did three films with Abhishek. Or Mehra had the world at his feet after RDB. Why Abhishek (he wanted Abhishek for RDB too and even for his debut film but that’s another issue)? Then Abhishek’s box office got much shakier but Gowariker still wanted him for KHJJS. So on and so forth. Similarly why does Bazmee reinvent HP with Abhishek in Akshay’s role? Why does Rohit Shetty not take someone else with Devgan after a 100 crore film? Why is he also calling it Bol Bachchan? Why are Abbas-Mustaan making their biggest production with Abhishek? So there are many questions here that have no proper answers unless one assumes that despite his patchy or even poor box office record he is a certain threshold star. Either that or one has to reduce oneself to the absurdity of believing it’s all happening because of his last name (but in which case one has to explain why he didn’t attract the same folks before Yuva).
Leaving this aside this sort of analysis explains results that come about. If Abhishek has two 80 crore grossers tomorrow everyone might accept him as a top star but my interest in these things is never limited to such ‘brute facts’. And it’s not just about Abhishek either. I am interested in cinema as a cultural matter. The box office tells me things. Just a fact without any context doesn’t mean anything.
“Just a fact without any context doesn’t mean anything.”
The context is subject to personal bias. Figures aren’t! One can debate context, one has to bow before facts based on empirical evidence.
I am obviously not an industry insider to provide answers to all your questions. People who still sign Abhishek may have strong reasons to do so. But even here, who’d dare to sign him in a “solo” big budget extravaganza after seeing KHJJS’ fate? The Rohit Shetty starrer isn’t a solo effort. Bazmee always makes multistarrers. Ditto A-M!
Who in his right mind would invest in an Abhishek solo, also a big budget venture, at this point of time? I’m not trying to hold out any great hopes for him in the future precisely because his record has been so patchy in the last 10 years.
He’s talented and he can deliver good to great performances. But this does not correlate with the Box Office I’m afraid. And unless the BO demon is slayed, he’s not going to get his due. That’s my point — he’s not taken seriously, online, among audiences in general, because he’s not a bonafide star who can shut the critics up with one BO success after another.
Italian Job though is a big film unless the producer is looking for the ‘safety’ of Bobby Deol and Neil Nitin Mukesh. Again I am not disagreeing with your larger point here. On Bazmee yes Nana Patekar and Dutt are in the film but given their own frankly non-existent box office stories at this point (with the exception of Munnabhai for Dutt and the recent Rajneeti for Patekar where he was hardly the driver of the box office) it is hardly likely that a distributor who had no faith in Abhishek in genre would suddenly feel that the other two were insurance enough. Much as Paresh Rawal and Suniel Shetty wouldn’t exactly sell the earlier Hera Pheri if Akshay wasn’t enough! Is it sufficient to just term something a multistarrer? Doesn’t one also have to look at contexts once again? Otherwise ’empirically’ Deewar and Trishul are also multistarrers! Even stars who are not much at the box office can add to the appeal of an overall project ‘if and only if’ the main lead is enough of a draw! You don’t launch multistarrers expecting the supporting cast to pick up weight where the lead star cannot!
One cannot bow to facts without knowing what they mean. William the Conqueror invaded England in 1066. If one knew nothing else about the historical contexts here what would just the empirical evidence mean? Similarly without knowing what Abhishek’s decisions would have meant in other contexts, without understanding what grosses mean in different situations one couldn’t really get to the heart of the situation. Clearly the industry is not made up of nuts who want to lose money. Why was Abhishek getting all these opportunities? Why is he still getting them? Isn’t it precisely because the ‘trade’ really knows everything I’ve been suggesting here. Abhishek’s decisions don’t please them, they might be very wary of his choices but they obviously know that Raavan or D6 do not define his box office potential. There is nothing else that explains this gap. I’m sure the market is jittery on Abhishek right now, maybe more. When you have big failures even your more commercial ventures fall under a cloud.
Yes, Abhishek’s a bigger presence than Dutt in Bazmee’s HP.
Both Bobby Deol and NNM are even lesser factors in BO terms.
But I’m thinking both Bazmee and the duo of A-M must be wetting their pants right now seeing the BO outcome of KHJJS. If I had been in their position, I certainly would!
Beyond that, I’m not ready to comment on anything. I’ll strictly wait and watch. And keep my hopes to a bare minimum.
I’m not exactly happy to lay it on Abhishek here. But I do feel he needs to feel the heat, if he’s not feeling it already!
Agree, he needs to feel the heat and am sure he is feeling it.
Unfortunately, he cannot turn to his father for advice as he has equally poor judgement in this things.
Despite big banners, big stars and even bigger budgets, some of the recent Bollywood releases like Action Replayy, Guzaarish and Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey have all bombed at the box office.
“Since the first week of November, which sees brisk business due to the festive season, Bollywood has lost almost Rs 80 crore with Action Replayy. Guzaarish and Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey’s no show,” says trade analyst Taran Adarsh.
“We have had 15 releases in the last one month. Except for Golmaal-3 none of the movies have been able to recover their money,” he adds.
Which begs the question: Is Bollywood churning out bad films?
“Yes, it’s true. The content of the films are to be blamed. There is no other reason why films are not working at the box office. If the content is good, the film will be appreciated by the audience,” says Vinod Mirani, another trade pundit.
Trade analyst Komal Natha agrees. “Producers do not have any excuses to give this year. The slump cannot be blamed on cricket or examinations.”
But how does one explain the success of Golmaal-3, whose content is nothing but a series of gags? Are the viewers interested only in comedy films and not serious or realistic ones?
Komal Natha disagrees. “If that was the case then Peepli Live or the recent film Phas Gaya Re Obama [ Images ] wouldn’t have worked, and Action Replayy which is also a comedy should have clicked with the audience.”
According to Taran Adarsh, the real problem lies in the cost of the film. “Films today are going over budget. A film like Guzaarish costs Rs 60 crore. The film was able to get back only Rs 25 crore by selling the satellite and music rights but it was tough to recover the rest,” he says.
“Apart from actors, directors have also started charging exorbitant fees which obviously makes all the finances go for a toss,” Taran Adarsh adds. “There are too many choices available but honestly, none have been enticing enough to make audiences rush to the theaters to book tickets in advance. The fate of last weekend’s releases is known by one and all with only Phas Gaya Re Obama getting good reviews.”
Asked if the steep ticket prices are a deterrent, Aman Gill, who heads the films division at Endamol, says that though the pricing may play a role, it is bad content and bad budget to blame for the films’ box office failure. Plus, there are too many releases crammed towards the end of the year.
Click Here!
“A common man in India [ Images ] hardly watches 10-12 films in a year. Here we are talking of 15 films in one month,” he says adding, “small budget films do need to shout a lot more to get noticed, and though Phas Gaya Re Obama got good reviews, it couldn’t make an impact at the box office. Maybe with a little more marketing it could have been a bigger hit.”
With just three big releases — No Problem, Tees Maar Khan and Toonpur Ka Superhero [ Images ] — slated for the three remaining weeks of the year, it’s doubtful if the situation will change much.
“A common man in India [ Images ] hardly watches 10-12 films in a year. Here we are talking of 15 films in one month,”
Yes, this is my understanding too. More than certain films not working, it’s the fixed budget of family households that might play a role here. If an average family spends 500 bucks per film, that’s 6000 Rs per year! That’s certainly not free change. In such a scenario, one has to be careful about the choices one makes…
Phas Gaye Re Obama is holding up at the box office with steady weekday collections. The film collected around 1.25 crore nett over the weekend and will collect around 90 lakhs nett on its weekdays.
The film will collect in the region of 20-25 lakhs nett on each day for the Mon-Thurs period which is similar to its Friday collection. It must be noted that though collections are steady they are at a very low level and with two major release this week it will be tough for the film to get much screen spacein its second week.
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey is a total washout as collections were only 50 lakhs on Monday and then dropped further on the weekdays. The film is looking to have a 4.75 crore nett week one total.
SATYAMSHOT 
December 3, 2010 at 5:15 AM
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey Has Very Poor Start
Friday 3rd December 2010 12.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey opened to extremely poor houses at multiplexes around the country. The single screen response is likely to be no better apart from possibly the Bengal area.
A prime multiplex like PVR Chandigarh took an opening of just 22% on the first show while other majority of multiplexes were even lower. The opening of the film is around 10-20% depending on location.
PVR Chandigarh
10.00am – 4100/18800 21.81%
PVR Prashant Vihar Delhi
10.15am – 2,300/23,560 9.76%
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December 3, 2010 at 6:10 AM
Lack of promotion or good music don’t know this one deserves better.
The kind of reviews it is getting it might go Swades/TLOBS way….not good at the BO but will be considered a classic later…
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December 3, 2010 at 11:24 AM
I’m not sure if Legend of Bhagat Singh is considered a classic even now!
(although I liked it quite a bit, and saw it twice in the cinema)…
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December 3, 2010 at 1:00 PM
saw it myself at the time.
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December 3, 2010 at 8:46 AM
the difference in tone compared with their writeups on Guzaarish is immediately obvious. No surprise here!
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December 3, 2010 at 8:49 AM
Do you think it gets the 22cr first week like Guzaarish? I doubt at this point.
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December 3, 2010 at 8:55 AM
I actually think the number on the Guzaarish weekend was a bit high given there was a negligible jump over the weekend. Doubt it did more than 20 crores or so. But the issue here is that with Guzaarish you give it the kindest possible commentary, the highest possible number. Even when it turns out to be a complete disaster you’d never get this from the commentary! With KHJJS the same sources will go in the opposite direction. The numbers will be made slightly lower where possible, the commentary will be very harsh. In terms of whether it will do better than Guzaarish or not over the week I think this should be clear by tomorrow. Again assuming that sites like BOI don’t keep the Fri number extraordinarily low. They played dirty with Paa for example.
Of course we always knew this film would face a very uphill task at the box office. But this does not mean that dishonest reporting shouldn’t be pointed out. Specially given the track record of some of these folks in the past.
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December 3, 2010 at 9:05 AM
Waiting for your review and Rangan’s .
I am disappointed with the kind of response it got.
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December 3, 2010 at 9:07 AM
I was surprised actually.. wasn’t expecting these sorts of reviews.. they’ve been quite positive on the whole.. on the box office this too was not unexpected but again Sat will make it clear whether this film has a chance or not. And obviously one will have to cut through the BOI stuff or whatever even at that point.
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December 3, 2010 at 9:10 AM
by the way when you ‘court’ the media (to use a euphemism) there are certain advantages. Even a film doesn’t work you get universal praise for your performance. The thing is that I blame the Bachchans for not doing certain things right on the marketing front (ironically there was no such problem with Paa, a film where they did everything or rather Abhishek took care of everything) but I cannot hold it against them for not playing ball with the media given the (and to be candid) corruption this entails. Some fans would be quite shocked to discover what some of their favorite stars are upto in this sense. It’s an easy way to profit by a system that’s just diseased. Very few avoid the temptation.
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December 3, 2010 at 9:16 AM
The kind of response that you want where everyone praises the film and the performance and is truthful about the box office didn’t even happen with Guru! Didn’t happen with BnB. How likely is to happen with any other film. Barring Dostana where Johar had something to do with it. People don’t realize this but even in terms of performance this is one of the best reviews Abhishek ever got leaving aside Guru or Yuva! The only way this picture changes without playing the media game is if Abhishek has successive hits or increases his success ratio drastically. At that point the media eventually succumbs. But take Aamir. It took the media Ghajini for them to start calling him the top star. This after the extraordinary critical and commercial success he had in the preceding years. In any case these are just the facts when it comes to Abhishek. There has been no film of his (NONE!) since ’05 where the media/trade have been on board completely in terms of the reality of the box office. Hits or flops the picture is distorted beyond recognition. KHJJS offers an easy target anyway!
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December 3, 2010 at 6:12 AM
No problem with music, they say BGM is awesome
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December 3, 2010 at 8:45 AM
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December 3, 2010 at 8:49 AM
It’s hard to know what to expect…on the whole the responses seem to be good but those aggressively low ratings from Raja Sen, Anupama Chopra and Nahata are kind of scary. Of course with Raja Sen and Nahata this doesn’t mean squat, but still. I don’t mind a flawed movie but a boring movie is the kiss of death.
Incidentally, this clip does more to suggest a sense of “energy” in the narrative than the actual promotions!
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December 3, 2010 at 9:17 AM
lol, true!
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December 3, 2010 at 9:01 AM
Filmfare:
http://www.filmfare.com/articles/khelein-hum-jee-jaan-sey-1822.html
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December 3, 2010 at 10:29 AM
B.O. update: Cold wave grips box-office, new releases open poor
– By Taran Adarsh, December 3, 2010 – 20:41 IST
It getting worse! Or, perhaps, the box-office continues to be as unpredictable as ever, recording robust business in one week and generating dismal returns in the subsequent week. The three new releases – KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY, RAKHT CHARITRA 2 and PHAS GAYE RE OBAMA – opened to extremely poor houses across the nation. The occupancy at cineplexes was as low as 10% to 15% [at places, even lower], which only added to the woes of a crest-fallen industry that is reeling from financial setbacks since the past few weeks. The interesting part is that the three films belong to different genres and weren’t competing with one another for eyeballs and footfalls at cineplexes, yet the numbers were shockingly low.
KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY, which has won rave reviews, would require a massive pick-up in business over the weekend. RAKHT CHARITRA 2 hasn’t generated the numbers at single screens, although the general consensus is that the second part is better than the first. PHAS GAYE RE OBAMA, which has had a controlled releases [mainly plexes], should show an upward trend gradually, since the word of mouth is strong. Here’s hoping the scenario improves on Saturday and Sunday. Meanwhile, the Hollywood release, NARNIA 3, recorded better figures than Hindi films.
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December 3, 2010 at 12:25 PM
Hi Satyam, I assume that you are refering to Hritik’s recent adulation in Guzaarish by your comment on “courting the media” are unfair. If you care to look at twitter or facebook or any other social media people have appreciated his acting even while criticising the movie. It’s too early yet but still have not seen that kind of response for Abhi’s acting in KHJJS or even in his earlier films. Your attitude is like an ostrich’s refusing to lift its head out of the sand. Let me clarify, incase you think me part of anti Bacchan brigade, i am agreat fan of Amitabh and think Abhi to be a good actor. Infact must among the minority who liked him in both D6 and Jhoom Baraber Jhoom.
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December 3, 2010 at 1:02 PM
I was referring to a number of stars with that comment. And I don’t say this without a factual basis. But what appears to be the case is often very different from what ‘is’.
Secondly it’s not just about this kind of compromise and corruption. It’s also about ideological investment in certain kinds of films and projects. Incidentally I am quite consistent on this score. When Abhishek was being praised a lot for Dostana I attributed it to Johar’s media ‘contacts’. Not because I didn’t think he was good here but that he never gets such press otherwise (unless it’s a Guru or something). On Paa too I said (including recently) that this was a film the media liked but also ‘wanted’ to like. Abhishek was mostly praised a lot here which too surprised me. I tend to choose my words carefully and in any case never make claims that I don’t believe have a certain factual basis to them. There is such compromise and corruption in the film media it’s not even funny. With Abhishek though even accounting for all these factors there is often a certain narrative that develops online at the very least that bears no relation to reality. Again I could offer a number of examples. So if 6 out of 10 reviews praise him for a film it suddenly becomes a ‘no one has liked him’ deal! Yeah there are some stars who get close to 100% for their performances. Shahrukh in MNIK, Hrithik in Guzaarish are two examples. Those will never be my standards for performance. Of course it’s not just about Abhishek. Aamir in his career has rarely got those kinds of reviews!
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December 3, 2010 at 1:16 PM
Re: “I was referring to a number of stars with that comment. And I don’t say this without a factual basis. But what appears to be the case is often very different from what ‘is’..”
What’s to even debate here? When even political journalists are corrupted, how much more corruption must there be in the film media, where every media outlet has even more lax standards of reporting, fact-checking, etc. Even apart from that, if one goes by word on the street it has long been known that film journos are often paid off in one way or another (some by money; some by access to celebrities/parties/glamor; etc.), it’s like the casting couch, everyone knows that it occurs.
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December 3, 2010 at 1:12 PM
‘Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey’ gets a thumbs up from the public
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December 3, 2010 at 1:15 PM
First Day First Show Of ‘Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey’
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December 3, 2010 at 1:18 PM
Top 5: ‘BKB’ Rs. 15 cr. Week 1, ‘AKB’ extremely poor
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December 3, 2010 at 1:31 PM
Satyam you did not get my point. I was not refering at all to the media or reviewers. They can be biased but what about the general public who is facebook and twitter happy. I was talking about their reactions not the media. One explaination for this could be that SRK and Hritik have a larger fanbase who tweet but from viewer responses you can make out that a lot of people liked Hritik’s performance even among the miniscule numbers who saw Guzaarish.
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December 3, 2010 at 1:40 PM
Even with Abhishek I am seeing many tweets praising his performance. See this comment from normal viewer.
Ok here goes, KHJJS is a very mediocre attempt. Too long, very boring, yawn of a ost n extremely tedious to sit thru.
@juniorbachchan is the only good thing abt the film. Deepika is hardly there. Sikandar has a bigger role thn her.
nasty joke from teh same person:
I now knw why women call it period, men can feel the same when u sit thru this ‘period’ film the Oscar Nominated director has made today.
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December 3, 2010 at 1:57 PM
just because it’s twitter or facebook doesn’t mean people are completely neutral. You go to Bachchan’s blog and there isn’t one person who will not praise the performance of any film starring either father or son! Without knowing who’s tweeting what it’s hard to tell anything other than overall positivity or negativity. Is Abhishek being praised like Guru or Dostana for KHJJS? No! Is he being praised like SRK in MNIK or Hrithik in Guzaarish? No! But here’s the deal, SRK gets praised in everything from KKHH to MNIK, it’s only a matter of degree. Hrithik is meanwhile considered fantastic in everything from Krrish to JA to Guzaarish. The point I’m trying to make is that with certain stars the criticism (positive) is formulaic. But this also ‘forms’ opinion. Most people are not willing to diss a performance that everyone claims to have liked. With someone like Abhishek the ‘resistance’ for all the reasons I’ve got into many times before is highest. He has to do a Guru before everyone praises him. Or else something like Paa or Dostana where the media finds it easy to support him on other grounds. But the online world whether on social networking sites or on blogs is actually the most partisan out there. It’s become so toxic where people simply want films that don’t star their favorites to flop and by and large all criticism is directed to this end. Similarly whatever the media does or does not do it is even more distorted online. For example if you picked up major reviews of SR you’d see very many where Abhishek was given as much credit as Bachchan, occasionally even more. But when this was ‘relayed’ online it became a ‘hey it’s only Bachchan’ deal. Why? because people thought the film would work more than it did and the partisans just didn’t want to give Abhishek any credit. When Bachchan’s around even the fans submit to this blackmail because they accept as a matter of faith that no one can ever be better than Bachchan in any situation whatsoever. When SR didn’t work much then it was suddenly an Abhishek deal! Similarly among the very mainstream major publication reviewers D6 did quite decently or even better as did Abhishek. But this wasn’t what people were saying on blogs. Take KHJJS now. Lots of positive reviews. I am not writing in the media that it’s getting rave reviews. The HT guy or Taran are doing so and the media doesn’t generally favor ABhishek! But a few negative or so-so ones comes in and suddenly the online world explodes. The very very best reviewed movies on allbollywood never did higher than 78%-81%. And these were rare. Usually you got to the lower 70s even for very well reviewed films. In other words you have 20% either disliking the very best films or considering them no more than so-so even when this film is RDB or TZP or whatever. For a Gowariker film on this subject the reviews for KHJJS are actually remarkably good. Yes the negative ones are sometimes too negative but this too happens. With other stars no one gets into this too much. With Abhishek it becomes a big deal. And again there is just too much partisanship online. On twitter and elsewhere 90% of people if not more are simply out there to make partisan points. And usually the box office failure or success of a film is enough for them to swing one way or the other.
Note, I am not saying everyone loves all these Abhishek films and performances and the media makes or breaks them. Absolutely not. I’ve blamed the audience more often than not on this score. But one also cannot be naive about what happens in the media/trade but also online. Those folks are not neutral by any stretch of the imagination. Incidentally I don’t mind negative pieces at all, whether it’s KHJJS or any other film. But the criticism should be ‘literate’. I’ve said this for years and years. Finally on the box office some of us here including myself were not expecting anymore than what is happening in terms of the Fri start. But this does not mean that I will accept the blatant differences in commentary from a BOI or whoever when it comes to KHJJS vs Guzaarish or indeed other such comparisons. Whether the film will pick up over the weekend or not remains to be seen but the greater issue is whether it will be honestly reported either way. The past doesn’t give one much cause for hope in this regard!
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December 3, 2010 at 1:38 PM
Also i have been hearing from day one itself how Guzaarish has Bombed low collections, etc. But in NCR region, National capital region , where I live, it is still playing in several theaters with 3-4 shows daily, more than both BKB and Harry Potter. Media has been equally unkind to GUzaarish and instrumental in wrong reporting of its performance.
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December 3, 2010 at 2:01 PM
You’re completely wrong on this Sheetal. The media has been extremely kind to this film. This should have been called a disaster on Sat when there was no pickup pretty much. But it wasn’t. On day 1 they weren’t saying some of the stuff about it that they’re saying on KHJJS! Throughout week 1 they kept treating it with kid gloves. Taran pretends it dropped drastically in week 2. But week 1 was already miserable! BOI again tried to sugarcoat is as much as possible. Again with the rest of the media they quietly called it a flop and moved on. Consider this — compared to the Guzaarish collections D6 or Raavan were hits. I am not exaggerating much here! But every major Abhishek release that flops provokes either a massive reaction or more often hysteria.
What you’re reporting is not something very surprising to me. I saw it with a good crowd at my end. The film still didn’t make much. Because it’s appealed to very small pockets of the audience. That’s about it.
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December 3, 2010 at 1:43 PM
At Ted, lets not compare Tweet for Tweet, believe me you will lose.
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December 3, 2010 at 1:55 PM
Comparing Tweet for Tweet? You’ev referred the twitetr and facebook for Guzaarish. It is good to hear Guzaarish is running three shows at your place. i’ve watched with three people in Theatre in the first week.
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December 3, 2010 at 2:09 PM
All in all KHJJS needs to show a significant uptick by Fri eve/night shows and an even bigger one on Sat. Otherwise it has no hope. For many other subjects I would be completely confident with these sorts of reviews and WOM. Unfortunately for a Gowariker film and the subjects he often chooses WOM needs to be stupendous which is obviously a high bar for any film. He’s never achieved this barring with Lagaan. On Swades the collections tell the story and beginning with the initial. On JA the family audience sustained it decently but this was still quite anemic overall despite the trending. Whether the factors working against KHJJS (chiefly the subject) can be overcome by good but not overwhelming WOM remains to be seen.
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December 3, 2010 at 2:27 PM
I think WOM is not that good except from Calcutta. It will be a major failure.
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December 3, 2010 at 2:30 PM
if KHJJS doesn’t work at all I can’t blame Abhishek for doing Italian Job or the Bazmee or even the Rohit Shetty. He needs to get some grossers pretty soon. I’d expect DMD to start the turn, looks to be a special film from everything I’ve been led to believe. Don’t expect much from Game because this is a new director. But Abhishek is still fortunate that he can land those big commercial projects on the heels of so much box office failure. And the ‘different’ now is a Balki solo which I don’t expect to be much for a problem. For that matter Department should also be alright on the initial certainly with both father and son in the film (and of course Dutt too). But this has certainly been a very rough road for him.
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December 3, 2010 at 3:00 PM
I agree, sometimes I feel he needs to put more effort into character to make it real. Amir or HR are not fools to spend so much time on understanding the role. He has already lost lot of fan base.
Someone pointed out in twitter that his voice modulation was bad and they suggested to use some method.
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December 3, 2010 at 2:36 PM
Satyam, almost every review has pointed out that Abhishek is a total misfit and his performance id totally uninspiring. Can you show me which review has praised AB’s acting?
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December 3, 2010 at 2:48 PM
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/movies/review/14199/index.html
http://headlinesindia.mapsofindia.com/entertainment-news/celebrities/khelein-hum-jee-jaan-sey-rare-precious-movie-on-nationalism-69842.html
http://faridoonshahryar.blogspot.com/2010/12/why-khelein-hum-jee-jaan-sey-is.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/movie-reviews/hindi/Khelein-Hum-Jee-Jaan-Sey/moviereview/7029093.cms
http://www.filmfare.com/articles/khelein-hum-jee-jaan-sey-1822.html
http://www.indianewsblast.com/2010/12/khelein-hum-jee-jaan-sey-one-of.html
http://www.dnaindia.com/entertainment/review_review-khelein-hum-jee-jan-sey-is-a-history-lesson-that-fails-to-strike-a-chord_1475786
http://www.desihits.com/news/view/movie-review-khelein-hum-jee-jaan-sey-20101203
http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/hindi/review/12042.html
http://www.glamsham.com/movies/reviews/02-khelein-hum-jee-jaan-sey-movie-review-121208.asp
the were a couple of others that thought he was good but not great (DNAIndia) or that he was too subdued for a revolutionary (Anupama Chopra for example though Gowariker wasn’t making Kranti nor did he ask Abhishek to play that kind of character). Only one suggested he was miscast if I’m not mistaken.
In any case there are very many of these reviews just through the first day where he’s been praised quite a bit. Sometimes I wonder if you read just what you want to. How could you have missed so many?
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December 3, 2010 at 2:53 PM
by the way since when is ‘everyone’ important for you? Guzaarish had good reviews, you still disliked it very much!
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December 3, 2010 at 2:46 PM
“Neither does it help that Abhishek Bachchan is assigned the onus of breathing life into a character of legendary proportions. He still appears to be playing Guru, either keep a straight expressionless face or a scowly one as if he’d been bitten by a mosquito. It’s a role that cries for complexity and nuances, and for heaven’s sake not a persistent folding of hands.”
From Khalid Mohammad, who has given one of the best ratings among all to the film ( 3 and half stars)
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December 3, 2010 at 2:50 PM
Khalid Mohammed is not even coherent there. First of all he’s had history with the Bachchans. Secondly how can one hate the lead performance of a biopic so much and still love the film?! It’s like saying one loved Raging Bull but hated De Niro. It makes no sense!
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December 3, 2010 at 3:29 PM
What is your problem? A movie of this kind would not work at the box office with any major star except maybe Aamir with his PR skills. But even Aamir could not make MP a hit.
Was Swades a hit movie? MP after a good opening crashed too and is considered a flop. Was Kites a hit? Every major star has flops no matter the genre and it is rare for a perid movie to succeed at the box office.
You were on a mission to destroy Guzaarish by pointing out only the bad reviews when there were many more good reviews than bad. I see the same pattern here with KHJJS where the reviews are pretty good (average of 3-3.5) except for a handful of bad reviews.
The critics who wanted a more charismatic fiery revolutionary are the ones who know nothing about Surya Sen who based on my reading was a very mild mannered teacher and unlikely leader. That is how AG apparently envisioned the character and how it is being played in the movie. AG did not change the character to meet the needs of the audience or the critics. I guess that is AG’s problem. He needed to more the characters more filmy.
At this point Abhishek should just make mindless stupid movies where critical approval is not needed to succeed because the audience will see the movie anyway.
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December 3, 2010 at 6:51 PM
I didn’t read the book, but guessed as school teacher the character is mild. Many reviewers were expecting high energy revolutionary.
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December 3, 2010 at 3:00 PM
I like Abhi, but being Amit Ji’s son and the expectations that come with that are enourmous. It would take an extraordinary talent to meet those expectations. Its pretty disappointing to see a talented actor get so many opportunities to make his mark and not be able to be to the task. I guess the public wants something else. Raavan was his last chance as a solo lead / hero. The public has spoken loud and clear on Abhi after Raavan. Now that doesnt mean Abhi is finished, he’ll just have to come in multi-star projects and that is the way he is going to have success. I think Abhisheks upcoming films are more massy and have a better chance at box office success. I just hope he doesnt lose his confidence. Bollywood is a better place when Abhi is success, see 2005-2007 time frame. Good Luck Abhi.
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December 3, 2010 at 3:04 PM
As a solo hero, it works if he choses Golmaal or other Akshays; comedies. KHJJS would not have worked with any other hero except may be Amir(because of his quality stamp). It may be same with raavan.
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December 3, 2010 at 5:14 PM
I wonder why Abhishek is always spoken of bearing the burden of being Amitabh’s son. He is Jaya’s son, too! So, in terms of expectations on acting ability, he’s got a double gold “genealogy”, as Satyam puts it. And for me personally, being more familiar with Jaya’s filmography than Amitabh’s, he disappoints on that front.
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December 3, 2010 at 5:14 PM
That said, I think it’s unfair to expect children in any field of endeavor to live up to their parents’ reputations.
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December 3, 2010 at 5:47 PM
I am amazed you are surprised that Amitabh Bachchan’s son is judged by his standards before Jaya Bachchan’s!
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December 3, 2010 at 6:18 PM
Amitabh may be the bigger star (since Jaya retired), but I am speaking of acting pedigree only, where both parents are relevant. Perhaps I shouldn’t be amazed at the patriarchal nature of such comparisons, similar to counting Umrao Jaan as an Abhishek film, rather than an Aishwarya one.
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December 3, 2010 at 6:25 PM
yes there is an obvious gender issue to these things.. but Bachchan is the titan here so.. even in the West the comparison would usually be made with the ‘greater’ parent..
Of course it’s a different matter that I have personally never bought the fact that these comparisons have been holding him down. If anything people have quite loved him when he has shared screen space with his father from BnB to Sarkar to KANK to Paa. Similarly the box office wasn’t a problem for him Dhoom through Guru. Nor was critical acclaim a problem when it came to Yuva or Guru or Sarkar or even entertainers like Dostana. He got great attention for Paa as well. And again there is no problem with the KHJJS reviews. The majority have still praised him, some exceedingly so. I’ve just listed all of these in the response to Utkal. The problem is simply the kinds of films he does. High risk fare consistently. Yes he’s had some bad luck but these were risky sequences to begin with. This is all there is to it. Even the ‘problems’ people have with his acting style comes more to the fore with some of these riskier roles. In Dostana no one had an issue. But that’s also a more obvious performance.
More later.. heading out now..
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December 3, 2010 at 6:26 PM
by the way Jaya was never a bigger star than Amitabh after Zanjeer. Not even close! Even otherwise she was hardly Hema Malini as a box office force. she had a niche cinema which she excelled at, she certainly had a place in the industry but there was never any comparison between her and her husband once the latter become successful.
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December 3, 2010 at 7:46 PM
Satyam – I don’t think SM was talking about box-offfice clout – for sure Jaya’s classy movies wouldn’t match the kind of business done by Hema/Amit films.
The ‘type’ of films that Jaya and Sanjeev did in the 70’s were my favourite of that decade. (Of course sanjeev did lots of silly films too, but Jaya much less so).
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December 3, 2010 at 7:42 PM
Agreed – if I had to pick between watching a random Jaya movie or a random Amit movie i’d pick Jaya anyday – most of the films she did were beautiful.
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December 3, 2010 at 3:12 PM
Abhishek will deliver. The next release is a BO one! And the next one as well…
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December 3, 2010 at 5:06 PM
Gowariker is good with ensemble casts and here too he gets the right men (and women) for the job. As Surya Sen, Abhishek brings a sense of calm and a quiet determination to the enterprise. He is able to physically inculcate the essence of the great Bengali revolutionary — “mujhe angrezon se nahin, unki neeyat aur nazariya se nafrat hai”. And by the time he announces in court, “Kranti ek pratha ban chuki hai”, you believe him.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1101204/jsp/entertainment/story_13255070.jsp
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December 3, 2010 at 5:46 PM
one of the better pieces..
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December 3, 2010 at 11:53 PM
KHJJS takes a very bad start across Indore Plexes on Friday
http://boxofficekings.com/?p=1358
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December 3, 2010 at 11:54 PM
Friday Indore Comparison,
Tracking across both numbers 18% of 8 cr(G3) = 1.44 cr and 46% of 2.75 cr(AR) = 1.26 cr first day all India numbers.
So , Expect something around 1.25-1.5 cr.
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December 4, 2010 at 12:52 AM
how much to be average at box office?
i knw mostly it would flop from here. theres no two way abt it.. but just curious
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December 4, 2010 at 12:58 AM
Utkal in addition to the links I’ve posted above here’s another review to prove my point:
http://www.mid-day.com/entertainment/2010/dec/041210-Khelein-hum-Jee-Jaan-Sey-Movie-review.htm
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December 4, 2010 at 11:34 AM
http://www.bollyspice.com/view.php/6112-writers-view-khelein-hum-jee-jaan.html
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December 4, 2010 at 3:15 PM
http://www.glamsham.com/movies/features/10/dec/04-khelein-hum-jee-jaan-sey-history-through-celluloid-121005.asp
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December 4, 2010 at 1:06 AM
Costing of the movie total is around 45 cr, so i think 40-45 cr from Indian Theatrical Nett should make it safe, which its totally a long shot now.
Right now movie is Behind Chronicles of Narnia in advance for today later shows at BMS and there is little evidence to show that movie will pick up big time.
As things stand today, i think movie will end under 20 cr overall run.
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December 4, 2010 at 1:57 AM
Doga..So will it be flop or disaster??
Abhishek and HR both gave two flops this year…only difference is that HR’s movies are bigger grossers..
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December 4, 2010 at 1:15 AM
India Today:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/122137/cinema/film-review-khelen-hum-jee-jaan-se.html
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December 4, 2010 at 1:53 AM
Interesting to see that the movies started with 4 and 3.5 star ratings then it dropped to 3/2.5 ratings…Major critics like Anupama Chopra, Rajiv Masanad, Pratim D. Gupta did not like the movie much…Both the critics from IndiaFM site Taran and Faridoon gave it big thumbs up..Subash Jha every one knows what to expect from him..Rangan’s review will be quite predicatable..
BTW can some one post the link of Mayank Shekhar’s review???
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December 4, 2010 at 2:02 AM
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey v Break Ke Baad: Key Multiplexes
Friday 3rd December 2010 23.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
The collections of Break Ke Baad last week were low but Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey has set record lows for a major release. Its possible day one may not even touch the 1.25 crore nett mark. The first day numbers for both films from some key multiplexes are below
PVR Chandigarh
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 41,000
Break Ke Baad – 1,65,000
PVR Ludhiana
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 13,000
Break Ke Baad – 70,000
Wave Ludhiana
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 15,000
Break Ke Baad – 79,000
PVR Ambience Gurgaon
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 93,000
Break Ke Baad – 2,25,000
PVR Saket Delhi
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey – 1,10,000
Break Ke Baad – 2,22,500
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December 4, 2010 at 2:31 AM
yeah boxoffice is expected for this film. Again, Abhishek does a risky project where rather than being the “central” figure, he’s one of the many in a ensemble. No doubt, he’s the leading man, but he shares his screen time without any starry aura for the betterment of the film.
I will be surprised if this films picks up as it will alienate a large part of the “snotty” multiplex teens, pity given that the film features such a prominent young cast who’ve done a remarkable job.
Abhishek delivers a hat-trick of flops with Mehra, Rathnam and Gowariker in ONE year. It’s been one of the toughest years for Abhi but I feel he’s been “holding back” himself in some sense. These directors only seem to come to Abhishek for their riskiest films and he accepts them.
Even in a patriotic role, Abhishek is restrained to the hilt. His anger is simmering but never quite boils over much like ijn SARKAR RAJ (except for the Subhash Nagre chor hai moment). It’s like Gowariker and Bachchan himself are scared to unveil the monster. Given Amitabh himself has POWER, BUDDHA and AKARSHAN around the corner maybe it’s too early for Abhishek to unveil in a full fledged DABANNG and GHAJINI type masala mode.
Strangely enough, DUM MAARO DUM, PLAYERS, GAME, Rohit Shettys action-comedy all seem like the kind of inane nonsense that recently saw G3 crosss the 100 crore mark (?!?!)
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December 4, 2010 at 2:34 AM
with these films he’ll have the multiplex on board but then he needs to win over the multiplex with something really massy. His film with Prabhu Devaa should be the first here.
DUM MAARO DUM has a real chance at being the most unique of these films as far as Abhisheks legacy goes. With the inclusion of the original song, the theme, song and cast of the film, Abhishek will have a potent winner here. The first promo itself will be a rage.
KHJJS is Abhishek in more Jaya Bachchan mode than Amitabh Bachchan…..
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December 4, 2010 at 2:02 AM
If i had to give it a rating it is 8/10. It’s my favourite Ashutosh film since SWADES (it’s a tough call for me between the two right now), though not as good as LAGAAN!
Again, this is a darker film than the promos even suggest and a harrowing look in to the lives of men (and teenagers) on the run in turbulent times. There is no “fun” in the first half per se minus a few scenes. Ashu has made a “faster” film at the compromise of investing too much in to the characters which pays off in my view. More to follow on my review.
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December 4, 2010 at 2:25 AM
KHJJS is powerful because it’s unassuming, and this is why I admire both Gowariker and Bhansali, they stick to their vision! This scores way above GUZAARISH as far as a film goes as one doesn’t walk away with as many “What if’s”!? The flaws are less evident and the narrative far superior.
Ashutosh is a master craftsman handling a very important subject with precision and relish. The central characters connect the effort Gowariker goes in showing his characters “mindset” is an experience. Moody, sombre, no jingoism, straight-forward KHJJS is without a shred of doubt one of 2010’s finest films.
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December 4, 2010 at 3:18 AM
Went to see rc-2 yesterday. N the guy asked me to wait. I asked then he replied i was the first one for it. Show might be cancelled. Then i watched khjjs
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December 4, 2010 at 3:22 AM
All families coming were going for narnia. Dont what they like in movies like in hp n narnia. May be for their children. But for this too not much rush at all
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December 4, 2010 at 3:59 AM
When i entered the screen for khjjs. Only handful of people around 20 I think for 500 seater. movie started as downer. Apart from songs nothing was good. Actors looked so pretentious n artifical. Some youngesters started abusive language at some scenes. It was testing my patience just like guzzarish did. Though i thought of walking out only once while guzzarish first half brought such thoughts many times in mind. funny sequences does make u laugh becoz it was all in humour. I think it takes too much time to pick up. First half could have been shorter by half an hour. But ultimately first half ends on some positive note n last 15 minutes of it gave some hope. By then i gave the fim 1.5/5.
Second half starts goes with pace excitement n everything touches u deep in heart. My eyes were wet throughout the second half. I feel connected with those characters so much. and then end credit rolls which is the peak of the movie. Then i thought shd i rate second half 5/5 but i feel guilty. This is beyond rating n a priceless film. Neither director or anyone shd be disappointed with bo outcome. This is pround moment for industry. i heard people saying so sad no one watches such films. Everybody who stood tired just waited for end credits to roll out where u see real photos of revolutiones n easily identify with characters. Dont know critics keep their heart out when they watch it. Salute to AG, he made it with purity n simplicity. He never fancies events just keeps it honest, he could have given heroic moment to actors for bo perspective but he is most simple, honest n original director. Now i understand what its first half means. We people r no more pure just corrupted living fake lives.
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December 4, 2010 at 4:05 AM
I was confused before watching it to pick best film of the year. Guzzarish or rc were my choice. But now can clearly say khjjs is best of the year. simplicity n honesty can easily beat all fantasies.
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December 4, 2010 at 7:38 AM
Wow! rentz-a great style of writing..
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December 4, 2010 at 7:46 AM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Khelein-Hum-Jee-Jaan-Sey-to-be-a-flop/Article1-634254.aspx
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December 4, 2010 at 7:56 AM
Thanks pradip. Tis is just my movie exp which came out bundled with emotions. I appeal everyone to give it a watch.
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December 4, 2010 at 10:47 AM
If KHJJS shows no pickup over the weekend there’s no doubt that it’s going to have an extraordinarily low gross. In some ways I feel sorrier for Abhishek (or Gowariker) here than with Raavan or D6. The latter two films got their audience, they weren’t liked but still got to decent enough totals as flops in ‘different’ genres. In other words as we saw with Guzaarish and now even moreso with KHJJS not every high profile ‘different’ film gets to that range. But KHJJS has clearly not interested anyone at all.
Now Abhishek has really commercial attempts with Bazmee, Rohit shetty, Abbas-Mustaan. All films that please the crowds and of course guarantee a good or fantastic initial. One can’t blame him at this point for going for a number of these in quick succession. Of course he still has Balki’s next and RGV’s as well but these films relative to budget and so forth will always be safer anyway. Balki’s prestige is in any case very high and this is a home production for Abhishek. Some of the other stuff being talked about seems uncertain. But before this there’s Game which is a question mark because we haven’t seen the director’s work though otherwise a thriller shot in Europe should have a minimal audience assuming there is enough of a soundtrack here and the usual works. But really the next truly important film for him is DMD which almost looks to be an iconic re-launch for him at this point. Again Rohan Sippy doesn’t make mass hits but he could have here a super-BM, a film that works well across multiplexes, will certainly have a hit soundtrack with Pritam, and a physicality for the star to satisfy younger audiences. So even though things seem so dire for him he seems quite alright. and I doubt he will not return to riskier films soon enough (doing Department and Balki already suggests he’s not abandoning anything). He’s definitely had some bad luck but where he can be blame justifiably is not mixing it up enough so far or thinking about the mix adequately from year to year. So Raavan and KHJJS in one year is a risky sequence. Raavan was expected to be a winner but with a Rathnam nothing’s ever certain. In ’07 he had Guru and JBJ. The latter was the more obvious choice, it didn’t work but Guru at least did. In ’08 he had SR (had a decent initial, not much of a follow-through but this was quite fine in a critical sense and even the overall 35-37 crore total was decent enough for this sort of film and budget. No excuse for Drona but then he had Dostana. In ’09 D6 again failed where it was not expected to. Towards the end of that year he had Paa where even if things centered around Auro he got a good deal out of it for his own performance and of course for being producer. This year though has been a very big knock and if you then sum up things since ’07 there are very high profile failures in JBJ, D6, Raavan, and now as always seems certain in KHJJS. Ironically what saves him still is the fact that no one looks at these films and thinks that anyone else could make these run (Aamir might have done much better with KHJJS and possibly got a success here.. of all the failures I think it’s this one which would have remained reasonably stable with enough of an initial). One measure of stardom is the extent to which you can continue to attract high profile projects. Abhishek has has very significant failures and too many at that but it is at this very point that Abbas-Mustaan are making their biggest film with him, where a Rohit Shetty after a 100 crore hit is interested in him (even if the film has Devgan he could take another star..), Bazmee revamps Hera Pheri with him (besides also wanting to do Hangover with him). You cannot not be perceived as a major star and attract this kind of commercial attention. Ironically I expect Abhishek to be in a very strong commercial position probably a year or 18 months from now. These will be films that I will hardly be celebrating and yet at this point I certainly cannot blame him. Once this period passes though he should just be careful of better managing the mix. Incidentally I forgot Dostana 2. It keeps getting delayed, I personally don’t want Abhishek to even do this for other reasons but if it does get made this is another commercial winner. I must admit that what makes me a bit nervous about doing some of this very commercial stuff is that the ‘seduction’ of great success cannot be underestimated. Yes he walked away from a lot of the success and hype in ’04/’05 though he also did not expect some of the stuff to end up as badly as it did. At this point it’s clear that even doubling the bets hasn’t paid off. However if you suddenly get films in a cluster with big or massive grosses it’s very hard to avoid that ‘logic’ at that point. Yes it would be great for Abhishek to loosen up in some of these parts. His act in Dostana was certainly very enjoyable but I am too devoted to his gifts as an actor not to mention some of the projects he’s done to want these to disappear (I suppose Abhishek doing some of this stuff is a bit like Surya doing hardcore masala!). Again don’t expect this to happen as contemporary Bollywood keeps throwing up these opportunities but there’s been no other major stars (almost ever) who has not completely capitalized on the low hanging box office fruit as Abhishek has so far been unwilling to do. At any rate he needs the commercial stuff, there’s nothing else to do for the time being. But yeah his ability to rebound is less appreciated. Partisans should be careful of what they wish for! SRK, Hrithik, Akshay (because his genre films hardly seem to work anymore) at this point do not have a better commercial cluster coming up!
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December 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM
I feel Bachchans have to seriously think of starting film with South directors like RajaMouli or Muruga Doss. What Abhishek missing is these directors can elevate. RajaMouli’s movies he can project the hero to commericial level. They have to take chance. I am noit happy with SrBachchan posting retweets of comments. It is too late. Did they not recognize this with the first khjjs still that Abhishek holding a rifle? To me that looked like a taking picture kids take at exhibition places with fake rifle.
They have to RISK something higher than following rotten comedies. By the time he started , people might be already got fed up of them.
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December 4, 2010 at 12:34 PM
LOL, we might have a human landing in Mars before they start entertaining Southern directors! I am led to believe the Prabhudeva is still on but the akshay one will get made first. On the comedies they won’t get stale in a year! As G3 reveals this is a pretty bankrupt audience. It’s not about genre as much in some ways. Because the multiplex love stories are doing terribly. Stunts and comedy seem to get better initials all else being equal. The audience has just been in a mood for silly entertainment for the longest time. Which one wouldn’t mind if it were part of the mix but these genres tend to do vastly better than others. For different films to work and especially work in a big way you need something like a perfect film or at least an excellent one that is also one of a series of pre-audience-approved subjects! By the way all that stuff with rifles and so on is very authentically handled in the film. But the advertising was poor for content and especially for volume. Not that this would have ever got a big initial but they could have maximized those cross-sections of the audience that were at least persuadable. On that cinematix survey for example basic awareness of the film was very low let alone interest. Incidentally I would like to watch the film a second time. But it’s not playing in my suburban theater and it’s a bit difficult to keep making the trek even if I saw it on a fantastic screen where image and sound quality were awesome.
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December 4, 2010 at 12:35 PM
by the way there are a number of very significant directors from both the Tamil and Telugu industries who would start a project with Abhishek in a heartbeat.
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December 4, 2010 at 3:42 PM
“Abhishek has has very significant failures and too many at that but it is at this very point that Abbas-Mustaan are making their biggest film with him, where a Rohit Shetty after a 100 crore hit is interested in him (even if the film has Devgan he could take another star..), Bazmee revamps Hera Pheri with him (besides also wanting to do Hangover with him). You cannot not be perceived as a major star and attract this kind of commercial attention”
HAHA srsly? well could be because Aamir, Hrithik and Srk won’t even think of doing these movies, Saif is busy courting Vishal B, Imtiaz and Co to direct him in his own home production.. Ranbir & Imraan are busy with Dharma and Yashraj.. so who’s left for people like Aneez B and Rohit Shetty.. yes guessed it right, Abhishek! 🙂
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December 4, 2010 at 3:46 PM
As I said earlier folks like yourself will be sorry relatively soon..! Spare me a thought at that point! On the rest of what you’re saying it’s not serious enough to even be debated!
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December 4, 2010 at 3:55 PM
Why will folks like me be sorry? It’s just that maybe maybe it’s time you let poor abhishek and his poor movies do the talking.. enough of the ‘love letters’! 🙂
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December 4, 2010 at 4:19 PM
People like you crack me up. The only actor with a great record in the last five years has been Aamir with one flop.
Let’s see how the other major stars are doing with real hits (not average or above average stradding the line stuff):
Salman: 17 flops in last 20 movies
Akshay: 20 flops in last 25 movies
SRK: 7 flops in last 11 movies
Hrithik: 3 flops in the last 6 movies
Ranbir: 5 flops in the last 7 movies
Saif: 10 flops in the last 12 movies
Shahid: 12 flops in the last 15 movies
This is based on information from several sources so may not be perfect. But you get the general idea that all the major stars are in the same boat when it comes to getting hit movies – audience is completely unpredictable.
Let’s get over this nonsense about flop actors based on only box office results and focus on BW producing some good quality movies for a change.
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December 5, 2010 at 6:18 AM
Tyler, just wondering.. which 7 SRK flops are you talking about here.. gimme a break if you’re talking about delayed -cameo/special appearence films like Billu Barber or Dulha Mil gaya..
coz after Paheli, every filmof his has done good enough except perhaps an underperformer in MNIK
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December 5, 2010 at 7:53 AM
I think he has considered DMG, BB, Shahrukh bola tu khoobsoorat hai and heyy babyy (this one is hit 4 akki but flop for SRK)…and also Drona and Raavan (SRK attended the premiere)…
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December 4, 2010 at 9:04 PM
First Day Business KHJJS RC2 PGRO
Saturday 4th December 2010 19.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey had a disastrous first day for a major release with just 1 crore nett business on day one. All circuits were extremely dull. The film has no chance at the box office as Saturday saw a minimal turnaround.
Rakht Charitra was also very bad with around 65-70 lakhs nett on day one. The film was mainly a single screen release and will also not score at the box office.
Phas Gaye Re Obama was no different with around 25 lakhs nett on its first day but Saturday morning did see better collections but not a huge pick up. It will be important to see what happens on through the weekend.
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December 4, 2010 at 9:06 PM
This is a disaster. I know films like Guzarish and Swades also had bad openings… but compared to this, their opening was Blockbuster.
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December 4, 2010 at 11:19 PM
well there was a big difference between Swades and Guzaarish opening.. the latter was a complete disaster.. of course KHJJS has made it look like a hit! and D6 or Raavan were supergrossers compared to this! The thing with Swades was that it had a very low opening but within normal limits. Trending wasn’t the worst but the final gross was still not much. However within context it was worse than it looks. The Lagaan director’s first film after Lagaan, SRK in the film and really nothing much happened. KHJJS though is in a unique group with UJ. Because with these films no one showed up. It’s not even about WOM or anything. No one wanted to see these films. On the cinematix survey 16% expressed interest in it within the 9% who were aware of the film!
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December 5, 2010 at 12:09 AM
Wow, so that means only 1% of the public was interested in the film. That explains the opening figures, I guess.
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December 5, 2010 at 1:48 AM
Satyam, Such low turnout on day 1 is surprising, considering this is not a low budget film. Looks like nobody was interested. As far as the genre is concerned, the Bhagat Singh films also opened low– but not as low as this! Then there are lagaan, Gadar and Mangal Pandey which had huge openings. Asoka and Veer (if these can be considered of similar genre) also had somewhat average opening. Devdas had a good opening. Parineeta had low-average opening. Even Vivek Oberoi’s Krisna had a low-average opening. But with KHJJS, BO has seen a record low.
One reason could be that Abhishek doesnt have a minimal fan-base that a star needs in worst case scenario. Other could be that the genre is a complete washout.
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December 5, 2010 at 1:51 AM
I think it’s a combination of the subject, and the previous track record of Gowarikar and Abhishek. Gowarikar’s last was What’s Your Rashi, which was a flop, and Abhishek’s last was Raavan, which was also not successful. So neither had any momentum from a previous project to attract viewers, and the film’s subject matter is not geared for wide appeal, unless the audience was carefully prepared.
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December 5, 2010 at 5:03 AM
the momentum thing was discussed by me and sattu here.. that he shud have a commercial movie release before .. and than go with this one..
but hey who listns to us!
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December 5, 2010 at 8:30 AM
The opening of this film is so low, so ‘negligible’, the magnitude of the audience non-participation is such that it goes way beyond such explanations. This sort of thing explains a regular flop or a low opening within some sort of normal range. This has been a UJ deal where people simply weren’t interested. A mad degree of advertising in either instance would possibly have helped but the opening was such in either instance that one quickly runs out of theories!
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December 5, 2010 at 12:57 PM
But what is surprising is that this film has done abysmally overseas as well, while both WYR and Umrao Jaan did well overseas. For Umrao Jaan I remember that the theater was fuller than for Don.
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December 5, 2010 at 1:44 PM
Well.. here’s how it stood.. UJ did extremely well in the US, it opened better than TZP and CDI and then also trended well enough to get to 1 million. Let me offer a correlation here — JA did phenomenally well in the US and almost matched OSO, which was the record holder at the time. In each case the gross of the films in other overseas territories was not even close though they did decently or worse depending on the country. In India UJ was like KHJJS, no one was interested. Again it wasn’t a question of WOM. people just did not show up. Months later, even some years later I was amazed to discover in conversations with people they weren’t even aware of such a film! UJ too was a film that I believe would have trended well enough in India with family audiences had enough seen it. people didn’t. I’d say the same for KHJJS. I obviously wouldn’t say this for a D6 or a Raavan because these got their audiences (though in each case when I saw the film in the theater I knew it wouldn’t run).
Let’s get back to the ‘correlation’. I saw UJ twice in the theater. In each instance the audience was 95% women at the very least and if I had to take a bet a very large number was from Pakistan. In the US this sort of audience has historically showed up only for the SRK love story/family film, these days for something like 3I. Otherwise the participation of this segment is relatively limited. The rest of the audience shows up for most big films that are big in India too. Aishwarya Rai I have long said has her strongest base in the South and then overseas in the US. Assuming of course that the film in question has minimal appeal. But you put her in some sort of period piece where she gets to ‘dress up’ and you have a lot more of this family audience interested. You then add the ‘Muslim’ sign (UJ, JA) and you might get something off the charts, specially in the US where Pakistanis are an important segment. Now one has to do the sociology in more detailed fashion to question why Pakistanis seem more invested in JA and UJ in the US as opposed to the UK or the Mideast. But there it is.
KHJJS will not do half of what WYR did in the US. This actually further makes my claim. This isn’t an argument about stars. If you put Abhishek and Deepika in even a pedestrian romance tomorrow it would do three times what most love stories are doing in every territory. It’s not about stars here. A certain perfect storm for created with KHJJS…
1)Gowariker’s films are seen as ‘boring’ by the demographic that dominates multiplexes, an under 35 crowd (the bulk of this is really in the 15-25 group) that did not like any Gowariker film after Lagaan including JA. Even with SRK and Hrithik they weren’t interested by and large. The latter still survived on the basis of the family audience. Swades too found a certain audience within this demographic. With KHJJS though you have Gowariker and a theme that even the family audience isn’t interested in. the fact is that ‘patriotism’ has almost never been a ‘seller’ in the entire history of Bombay cinema unless it’s been tied to high voltage masala cinema. This at least gets you an initial even if the film eventually does not work.
2)Abhishek has had too many high profile failures doing different. Especially D6 and Raavan. These matter because these were expected by the audience to be outright winners. The directors had done RDB and Guru prior to this. With Rathnam Abhishek had a longer history. If Dum Maro Dum is your release following these films it doesn’t matter because the audience knows it’s a completely different subject. When it’s a ‘different’ film directed by Gowariker that’s also a freedom struggle sort of deal the bar is raised infinitely higher and at this point in time no one other than Aamir could have created the right confidence in the audience to watch such a subject. Ironically Rathnam and Mehra themselves would have less of a problem if any if they did other projects with Abhishek because there’s always something commercial appetizing about their projects. Not so with Gowariker.
3)The soundtrack was a factor. You never get a good initial these days without at least one winner in the soundtrack. Said this for Guzaarish too. That Bhansali had effectively sealed the deal with his soundtrack. KHJJS has sweet music for the subject but it’s not the sort anyone buys. Rahman himself couldn’t get JA to sell much before release and not very much even after!
4)Extremely lackadaisical advertising both in terms of content and volume. You have on the one hand the extreme of Farah Khan hyping her film to death in the crudest ways imaginable despite the fact that this film hardly has an initial problem (!) and on the other hand you have Gowariker pretending he has all the time in the world to attract an audience. The previews confirmed all the biases the audiences might have had about this film.
4)The audience is also a factor. They have to be blamed as much as anyone else. Yes a perfect storm was created in terms of the four factors mentioned above. But the audience also has some responsibility. I am not talking about ‘everyone’ here but surely some segment of the multiplex audience needed to show up here. You can’t just be for quality films in the abstract but never actually show up when it counts or be for them only when they’re ‘perfect’. Aamir made those comments about DG which inflamed people (though he need not have worried so much, DG will still get enough people to the theaters because of him) but he’s hardly wrong. The truth often offends! We’ve just seen G3 do a 100 crores. No Problem will do very well too. Are these huge stars?! Devgan does a 100 crores in G3, does quite well in OUATIM (rather watchable fare this..) and then for Aakrosh he gets zilch! What does one think this is about?! Again the audience just doesn’t wish to see such a subject! Abhishek might be foolish for not mixing it up better but consider this very bankrupt audience that on most days wishes for nothing more than Race or G3! Consider how Ranbir APKGK did and then Rocket Singh a bit later! Consider how JA opened, consider how Guzaarish opened and sustained. Consider how AR did (for Akshay anything other than his regular comedies kills his audience!), consider how SRK’s different attempts have fared over the years, on and on. This is why for years I’ve been giving Aamir extraordinary credit. To make different films and to keep getting hits out of them is to keep threading a needle with the multiplex audience. It’s the most difficult thing around! Yes, Aamir stops where he realizes he cannot sell more to his audience. But he needed that sort of compromise to keep persuading his audience.
Finally let me also say something about all of us here in the online universe. We too can be remarkable partisans supporting quality films only as a cynical measure. When our star does it it’s ok otherwise it’s poor and not entertaining and box office suicide and what not. we just want our stars to have hits whether these come about doing the worst cinema possible or the best. I have never been a fan of Hrithik the actor but I showed up for Guzaarish and JA in the theater. I wasn’t a fan of SRK after the late 90s and I yet showed up for not only Swades but most of his major films. The same goes for Hrithik actually. The point is we can have our favorites but then also either support quality films or show up for major releases if that is our thing (as it is for me). I will for example watch TMK unless the reviews are bad. I just like watching big releases in the theater (though sometimes depending on where the film is playing it gets difficult for me). I am only using myself as an example here so that people don’t start accusing be of being an Abhishek partisan. Similarly in our commentary on films here it is obvious that we support any film our favorite appears in 99% of the time! It is astonishing to see the introspection many lack as they outline their choices when it comes to their favorite stars and then others. So you have frankly a lack of taste and sensibility on the one hand (including the fact that a poor box office does not mean anything necessarily about the quality of a film) but also hyper-partisanship where every single film release is looked at through the lens of one’s partisan leanings. I am supporter of masala. Loved it when BnB was a hit, loved it even more when Aamir had his Ghajini, loved the preview of Dabangg and was thrilled to see this get so big. Salman has I believe two masala films next year in Ready and Bodyguard. Hope he has big ones in both. I say this when I find him offensive on screen most of the time! So one at least be consistent in that ideological sense. But this too does not happen.
There is a lack of a genuine film culture in India and this is just reflected at every level.
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December 5, 2010 at 4:57 PM
1) I think maybe it has become “boring” but the other factor about a Gowariker film is its very long. Don’t know the run time of KHJJS, but Lagaan/Swades/Jodha Akbar were long films and they all require a level of patience for any kind of reward. And when you get the *boring* tag, along with the long film one, well one can’t think of two worst tags to have to spend an evening watching a film. This is just what the perception probably is. Gowariker just wastes a lot of time with overdone slow motion camera moves and unnecessary scenes in his recent efforts. What he can achieve with 3hrs plus, others could achieve with 2hrs 30mins. And the impression it creates is painstakingly taken effort into detail but with little dramatic impact on the audience.
2) Abhishek is clearly on a bad run. And this is a part of the poor response. One can’t blame it all on him, but success breeds more success and for sure an Abhishek with a better box office track record would have at least opened this movie to some extent. But the genre, grim promotion, poor music all add to the films lack of appeal as highlighted in point 3) and 4). And the promotion has been utterly dull IMO. Rightly or wrongly, when films are arriving with monumental publicity, this one arrived with so little promotion. And I like this sentence of yours “You have on the one hand the extreme of Farah Khan hyping her film to death in the crudest ways imaginable despite the fact that this film hardly has an initial problem (!) and on the other hand you have Gowariker pretending he has all the time in the world to attract an audience.” It just hits the nail on the head. I find Gowariker may have a bit of an ego in that he may think “I am Ashutosh Gowariker and people will come and see my film”. It does not work like that now. If this was a 40 crore project then surely at a bare minimum the film should have arrived with considerable promotion. If the film fails then at least one can say all the tricks were tried. I am surprised he may have thought people would be swinging there way into theatres to watch this one.
3) Sure G3 will make 100 crores and it is quite painful to see, but I find at least the people who promotes these films do give the film every chance of making money. With KHJJS it not only seemed the audiences were disinterested but it feels the team were not really going gung ho with the film. And that impression nowadays is really what is ceiling the deal. And also is the audience disinterest here just a function of the fact that the KHJJS promotion was disinteresting?
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December 5, 2010 at 7:08 PM
Hard to disagree with anything here.. great comment..
KHJJS is 2 hr 48 min which is still longer than most Hindi films these days.
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December 5, 2010 at 2:14 PM
Satyam, I hope that long post was just to generally get things off your chest, and not directed specifically at me. If it was, i can only say I don’t have the energy to counter it, nor even the desire, as I don’t disagree with most of what you said.
However, here are a few points I want to make.
1. Sorry, for saying “overseas”, when I meant “U.S.” Yes, the audience for UJ where I saw it had a large number of women, but it wasn’t predominantly women by any means. And of the women, at least half were Americans, not South Asian. I don’t think this means anything more than the locations where you and I saw it (you in NY, me in LA).
2. Regarding KHJJS, I was initially very interested in the subject, but a little wary about Gowarikar’s handling of it, as I was quite unfavorably impressed by his treatment of serious subjects in JA and Swades. Once the promos started coming out, they tended to reinforce my fears, and once the reviews came out, they completely killed my interest in it, as they all pointed to exactly the weaknesses that I anticipated.
3. I am far from being “under 35” but my opinion of AG is also that he is very boring. 🙂 The reason I find him boring is that he seems to have no conception of dramatic structure or character development. In this regard I was most disappointed by Swades, coming as it did after Lagaan, which I thought was a very well constructed script. After seeing both, I had to believe all the articles about Aamir “ghost writing” or “ghost directing” his films, because the contrast between Lagaan and Swades was so marked. At the same time, the weaknesses that I now associate with AG were also present in Lagaan, specifically poor characterization. Frankly, I don’t think Lagaan would have been as successful in India as it was without the long cricket match being included. Online comments I read at the time reinforced that interpretation.
4. I find AG more annoying than boring, because he keeps taking up very important issues, but just doesn’t have the intellectual depth to handle them properly. As much as I disliked Delhi 6, it was miles ahead of Swades in its handling of its subject matter. Can you imagine what someone like Shyam Benegal would have done with KHJJS? So I find all this talk of AG being one of the best, if not “the best” directors in India baffling.
5. I find the recent failures of both Guzaarish and KHJJS instructive in that they reinforce my opinion for some time now, that most commercial Bollywood directors don’t have any clue about characterization, or on how to make character driven films, rather than plot driven ones. A film like Guzaarish, from what I have gathered, is all about characters rather than plot. To have it fall into the hands of someone like Bhansali, who couldn’t even begin to define “character” beyond costumes and sets, was its supreme misfortune. Again from what I gather from the reviews (professional and general), the problem with KHJJS is that it is again a very character driven story, but AG treated it as a plot driven one — A happened, then B happened, then C happened, etc., without any delving into *why* any of these events happened. This is the only regard in which I agree with you that the audience needs to be educated, since the overwhelming majority of commercial films (at least now) are completely plot driven, filled with essentially stock characters (hero, heroine, some times villain) that do not require the audience to engage their brains at all in understanding why a given character behaves in a certain way. But then I think such stereotyping is a reflection of what is going on in the larger society in India, where everyone is ever eager to “classify” everyone else into the appropriate box of religion, language, caste, etc., and so comfortably save themselves the trouble of engaging with anyone (including themselves) in a meaningful manner. A superficial society will naturally produce superficial films and audiences who only want to engage with them superficially.
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December 5, 2010 at 3:04 PM
No it wasn’t directed at you.. but yes it aimed to offer a summary of where we are overall!
I am not as harsh as you on Gowariker. I see where the criticism comes from on him but I didn’t have a problem with Swades anywhere. I don’t think in any case that ‘dramatic’ is an adequate word for every kind of cinema. In any case KHJJS is actually very dramatic in the second half. He’s setting it up in the first half but even here I didn’t have issues anywhere.
Benegal I think has been quite boring for many years. Mehra is not a fair comparison for most filmmakers.
KHJJS ‘is’ a plot driven story not a character driven one. Gowariker again and again said it’s not meant to be a biopic but about an event.
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December 5, 2010 at 3:06 PM
Regarding my point 5 above, I just stumbled on this post at PFC:
http://passionforcinema.com/why-our-cinema-encourages-corruptioncomplacency-in-our-society/
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December 5, 2010 at 3:21 PM
I think ‘new India’ since the 90s has been another name for complacency on the part of upwardly mobile urban bourgeoisie. The problem is: no one wants revolution in any sense of the term. The most iconic urban movie in many years, RDB (at least by certain measures), actually illustrates this problem best. The revolution is given with one hand and taken away with the other. Ultimately no one really has to do anything. But any film that either serious critiques the ‘present’ or asks for a ‘change of course’ meets a difficult box office! No exceptions to my mind in any genre or any kind of film whatsoever in this deep ideological sense with the possible one of Ghajini (yes there was a Hollywood compromise here too and the thriller element but at least the film pulled no punches in terms of conveying its tragedy and horror).
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December 5, 2010 at 3:07 PM
And also, OK, make me a member and I will write a review of Swades (I hope the statute of limitations hasn’t expired on it by now 🙂 )
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December 5, 2010 at 3:08 PM
send me your email.. one that you haven’t used on a wordpress blog before.
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December 5, 2010 at 3:17 PM
On Swades by the way I don’t think the aim here was to make a dramatic film. It was meant to be an introspective, reflective film. Now I have argued it wasn’t visually as interesting as Lagaan in any sense but that’s a different matter. JA can be better criticized on these grounds though even here I think Gowariker mixes a number of genres. It’s not that the whole film is meant to be a gripping drama. The script is messy for sure but that’s because Gowariker treats things in episodic fashion. I still find Abzee’s comment very useful on Gowariker that his kind of cinema reflects a quintessential Marathi ethos, in terms of how the narrative works. Having seen only a few Marathi films I understand this comment instinctively. Clearly this isn’t an ethos the rest of India connects to!
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December 5, 2010 at 3:30 PM
LOL, why the restriction? I like to use one email for all the various forums I participate in. It makes it easier to keep things straight.
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December 5, 2010 at 3:32 PM
Could you point me to that comment by Abzee? I’d like to explore that Marathi ethos idea a bit further.
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December 5, 2010 at 7:11 PM
that comment might be hard to trace.. it might even be from NG..
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December 5, 2010 at 5:23 AM
I feel sorry for Rakesh Mehra,Manirathnam,Gowarikar,SLB who are talented but don’t have guts to work with newcomers…Since these subjects are somewhat risky why can’t these guys go for newcomers(someone genuinely talented rather than superstar sons/daughters)…Even if collections are less,they won’t be huge flops like their recent movies..
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December 5, 2010 at 11:40 AM
If KHJJS cost 40 cr and you replace Abhishek (est 5 cr) and Deepika (est 2 cr), than AG saves 7 cr and the movie still costs 33 cr. So it is a huge flop regardless of stars or not.
Why blame the stars when there are various other reasons for the movie not working at the box office – lack of interest in such topics, better editing (pacing), maybe it needed more filmy touches, whatever?
Yes, I agree that movies with risky subjects should be made at a lower budget which includes getting the stars to take a lower fee but also minimizing all other costs.
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December 5, 2010 at 12:54 PM
Whats so risky about this project other than the lead actor? films like lagan gadar and mp have done good business. Even the ones that didnt, had far better opening than khjjs.
If the opening was like Guzarish we could say that the subject didnt help the film or that people showed least interest. But with an opening like this, you know its all the reasons plus much more. I think that abhishek doesnt have the star power to attract that minimal number of viewers.
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December 5, 2010 at 1:01 PM
those were masala films, there’s no comparison with a Gowariker effort.
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December 5, 2010 at 7:28 PM
well said, KHJJS is devoid of any masala unlike say VEER, GADAR or even MP! This is a dark and harrowing film…
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December 5, 2010 at 6:09 AM
RC 2 beats KHJJS in USA
Taran Adarsh tweets-
SHOCK: ‘Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey’ opens to shockingly low response in USA. Friday estimates $ 19,900 on 68 screens.
U.K. Update:- ‘Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey’ Friday £ 3,110 on 25 screens. Unbelievably low!
SURPRISE: Action/violent Hindi films are a strict no-no in USA, but ‘Rakht Charitra 2′ opens well in USA. Friday $ 35,700 on 23 screens.
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December 5, 2010 at 7:58 AM
More shocking than wikileaks….
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December 6, 2010 at 2:24 AM
thats a pretty low number. When an Abhishek film flops…it flops badly. his films have had some of the lowest totals in the last couple of years. he needs a hit(solo..multi starrer..it doesnt matter). but to say he is on his way out is pretty dumb…the bottom line is…this guy is not going anywhere. abhishek wont give out hits like amitabh did…noone has…but i think he will be up there eventually. look at ajay devgan with his recent hit streak. look at akshay kumar’s emergence in the past couple years. the only question with abhishek is…will he ever climb up to the top tier(SRK, Aamir, Hrithik, Salman) or will he always be in the middle of the pack? and im talking about BO wise. his acting is good..but it won’t be remembered if he doesnt have BO success.
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December 5, 2010 at 1:43 PM
The shocking performance of KHJS is not really so shocking. Disheartening, yes but this one was knd of dead before arrival. The movie is about an important chapter in the struggle for Indepenence but lets get real.Chittagong uprising is far from being allianwala bagh or Dandi March.
Gowariker is a sincere maker but is not synonymous with drama. As Rangan depicts in the last para of his review his story telling has an air of laziness and languidnes about it , which is rather well known. Combine it with singularly lacklustre promotion and that created zero interest in the general public.
Only a fool would try to blame Abhi for ths failure, not that there is a dearth of such fools. Surely, it doesnt help Abhi’s cause.
Have not seen the film but it does seem Gowariker has made a not too shaby film but unfortunately, the bubble gum and panties crowd is not thrilled.
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December 5, 2010 at 1:48 PM
As I mentioned in my piece I think this is easily Gowariker’s best film since Lagaan. And yes it is true that to add to everything Gowariker chose a revolutionary hero no one knew about! Abhishek though really needs a box office reset at this point. Either a massive one or a series of good or big grossers. He’s signed on some very commercial stuff so I expect him to get there. DMD I think will be the reset in some ways as this promises a ‘cool’ Abhishek for the multiplexes. Game might be a bonus if it does anything. But yeah as a fan I can’t really celebrate Bazmee or Rohit shetty even if each does a 100 crores! Italian Job I don’t really mind. I can only hope that the box office of these films allows him some space to take on interesting directors once again. He still has one with RGV and one with Balki. Hope there’s more of this.
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December 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM
A plain rendition of certain historical events related to independence has become a tired tired genre. Its been almost 70 yrs, in which bwood has probably made 50 movies related to the struggle against British. The promos of KHJJS were stock jingoistic, with Vande Mataram blaring in every scene. the juiciest target audience segment, ie 15-30 yr olds have moved on! For Gods Sake, how much more patriotism can you squeeze out of the masses? Dont these scriptwriters even realize it? Where’s the goddamn strategic decision making chops behind these studios?
One cant even compare this to Lagaan, because Lagaan was a total fictional tale spiced up with cricket. If the intention is to make a period piece on independence, do something like Lagaan. Maybe make murder mysteries, or what-have-you.
IMO, as it stands today, we really lack talent at the directorial level. Barring Hirani, all these others Mehra, SLB, AG, etc have been unable to give success without the help of the Khan triumvirate. When will directors stop wasting money, and start making something different?
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December 5, 2010 at 2:53 PM
Nykavi: I haven’t seen the film yet, but what was “jingoistic” about the film’s promos? It was a patriotic film, but not jingoistic based on the promos…
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December 6, 2010 at 2:52 AM
What was AG’s intention behind making this movie? If he read this book and thought that this chapter of our independence struggle needs to be told( as stated in an interview) he could have made it more viewer friendly, ie is more dramatic, jngoistic, etc to get the crowd in. Not just for profits but to inform more people. It would not have taken away any thing significant from the history. But if it was just to satisfy his creative juices could have made a smaller budjet movie, true to the event, that could have been shown on the film festival circuit before releasing here at select theaters.
I too, though not being under 30, find Gowariker’s films boring. His intentions are good, story is interesting but execution is too rigid and uninteresting. Even in Lagaan, I found the cricket match too long. I mean we know that team Bhuvan is going to win, but each player was made to take a stance at the crease, it felt like watching a school match without even the excitement of a surprise result. In JA , was interested in only watching/ogling Hritik. Can’t bear to watch its reruns on TV
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December 6, 2010 at 3:55 AM
Guys.. I so wish you could make a separate thread for trailers of, public response and random reviews on ‘Phas gaye re Obama’.. Coz it is disheartening to see such films dont reaching out to people especially when even intelligent folks like you spend all your leisure time energy in discussing about high budget, mediocre films..
so here we have people having separate threads for Premiers of KHJJS, Reviews on KHJJS, box office of KHJJS, threads on TMK months before its release… but not a single one for Phase gaye re Obama..
I watched this gem of a film last night and this one should easily be one of the best 2010 films..
most of you say its a sad state of BW today with flicks like TMK and G3.. if thats the case, why give them so much of importance.. isnt it a worse state when you ignore smaller, bolder, and much better films..?
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December 6, 2010 at 4:00 AM
people like Farah Khan will continue to achieve her targets and make more crap thanks to such long, ‘intelligent’ discussions on how bad her films are.. good or bad, it creates hype for her.. and then .. the independent filmmakers suffer.. these guys just do not get any publicity or media attention..!
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December 6, 2010 at 7:07 AM
yes I must admit I had a bit of a lapse on this one. The problem is that the film has already released now and it’s a bit pointless to put up a trailer thread.
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December 6, 2010 at 7:10 AM
Midweek B.O.: ‘KHJJS’ disaster, ‘RC2’ fails, ‘PGRO’ picks up
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December 6, 2010 at 7:12 AM
No takers for Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey
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December 6, 2010 at 7:21 AM
A Slow Weekend at the Box Office
By BROOKS BARNES; Compiled by RACHEL LEE HARRIS
The weekend after Thanksgiving is typically one of the slowest of the year at the North American box office, and the last three days proved no exception. The only sizable new release, “The Warrior’s Way,” a Relativity Media western designed as a vehicle for the South Korean superstar Jang Dong-gun, flopped badly with just $3 million in ticket sales. Most notable for the weekend was a film that opened in only 18 theaters: Darren Aronofsky’s “Black Swan,” a dark portrait of a ballet dancer (Natalie Portman), grossed $1.4 million for a per-theater average of $77,459 — one of the best art-house results for the year and a record for the studio behind the film, Fox Searchlight. Over all “Tangled” (Walt Disney Studios), above, was No. 1 in its second weekend in theaters, selling $21.5 million for a new total of $96.5 million, according to Hollywood.com, which compiles box office statistics. “Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 1” (Warner Brothers) was second with $16.7 million for a three-week total of more than $244 million. The runaway-train thriller “Unstoppable” (20th Century Fox) lived up to its title, tying for third in its fourth week with about $6.1 million for a new total of $69 million. The musical “Burlesque” (Sony Pictures Entertainment) shared third-place ranking with $6.1 million of its own for a two-week total of $29 million. “Love and Other Drugs” (Fox) rounded out the top five with $5.7 million for a two-week total of $22.6 million.
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December 6, 2010 at 7:34 AM
i read somewhere it might finish lifetime total at 6 crore.
speechless.
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December 6, 2010 at 8:40 AM
I wouldn’t be surprised at all unless by some miracle it managed to hover around the 1 crore mark day after day! In the US for example it would be lucky to get to half of WYR’s number! as I described earlier in this thread a perfect storm seems to have come about here. And ironically with a film that I believe would trend quite decently if not better had it managed to get a bigger audience. One cannot say this for all flop. The only other example from this year of a film doing so badly is Aakrosh, specially if you consider Devgan’s otherwise good year with Rajneeti, the comedies, OUATIM. Aakrosh would not even be considered ‘boring’ by anyone but it was still a subject everyone avoided like the plague. No one showed up. A flop assumes that someone shows up in the first place. When no one does the film is of course the truest disaster but it’s also something other than a ‘rejected’ film.
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December 6, 2010 at 9:46 AM
agreed.
when is a film rejected when ppl turn to see it, but when audience arent turning up ? thats why i said i was speechless (the last thing u expect from devils advocate 😉 )
but who to blame?
1. ashu
2. promotion team
3. abhisekh
imo, all are guilty. and deserved this as writing was on the wall.
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December 6, 2010 at 11:19 AM
Part of promotion…Add name of the film to that list.
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December 6, 2010 at 11:25 AM
LOL yup.. i said that long time back.. along with all of us… when we were shocked with this name
he could have had-
chittagong uprising 1930
rising: the untold chittagong story
Once upon a time in choittagong
The untold story of surya sen
hindi titles-
“surya”- the teacher warrior 😉
chittagong
18 april 1930: ankahee
anything..
if ever theres an award for least audience friendly title of a film .. surely this one wins landslide!
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December 6, 2010 at 11:58 AM
yeah remember making that point here and on Bachchan’s blog the day the name was announced. I of course didn’t expect quite this non-response from the audience but at every step it was clear that Gowariker was confirming the worst stereotypes about his films. And as I keep saying it was unfortunate here because I think that with enough of an audience this film would have survived.
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December 6, 2010 at 12:01 PM
The other advantage with Lagaan leaving aside the obvious ones (tighter script and so on) was that here the film had lots of opportunities for comedy throughout the script. Some dozes of romance, a triangle of sorts and then of course a thrilling cricket match towards the end.
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December 6, 2010 at 8:48 AM
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey Is A Horrific Disaster
Monday 6th December 2010 15.30 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey had a disastrous weekend of around 3.50 crore nett. The film started with 1 crore nett on Friday and Saturday and Sunday were just slightly better.
The film is a horrific disaster as a major film has never seen collections this low for the weekend. Its probably the first time ever that a major film had show cancellations on the first day itself. Show Cancellations are a regular occurrence for films like Dus Tola and A Flat but it is not expected from a film like Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey.
The weekend collections in Delhi/UP were just 60 lakhs and East Punjab only 25 lakhs. To put this into perspective is that a big theatrical failure like Break Ke Baad had the same collections on day one.
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey is likely to wrap its lifetime business at just 6 crore nett and a disastrous distributors share of less than 3 crore..
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December 6, 2010 at 8:50 AM
even if it did a bit more than 6 crores, even if it did 10 crores which is hardly likely it would still be a worse result than UJ. At some level I think the box office of this film defies all theorizing!
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December 6, 2010 at 9:12 AM
Yesterday watched ‘KHJS’.
Liked it. And yes half the theatre was empty but who ever saw it clapped when the ends were rolling with ‘vante mataram’. It was so nice to watch a different movie which really never not once compromised. Neither in content nor in making it bogus masala like todays movies.. The story was told in simple yet pure form.
Hats off to Abhishek that even after failures he has kept choosing good scripts which are sensible.
And fell sorry for todays audiences/generation who avoid movies which are rich in content and dont like subtle acting and look for nonsensical cinema.
Still hoping for the day when masses again start enjoying good cinema and distancing from multiplex movies.
VANTE MATARAM.
Thanks,
Amit
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December 6, 2010 at 9:48 AM
i hope they have show of this movie next week.
as
band baja baraat
no problem
_____________________
both would eat it up
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December 6, 2010 at 11:47 AM
don’t think you can bet on it if you don’t see it in the first week. And I think it would be a shame to miss this on the big screen.
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December 6, 2010 at 11:57 AM
i know.. m hopeful they survive 1 show atleast.
ps- some1 in family passed away so.. dont know when.. i would be watching nw…
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December 6, 2010 at 12:02 PM
sorry to hear that Rooney…
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December 6, 2010 at 10:58 AM
This now makes it 4 flops out of 6 movies that Gowarikar has made….Let’s not even count his first one and it’s still 3 out of 5. This guy needs to get out of his period drama mode and make something completely different. An action film with someone like Ranbir would be a good start…
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December 6, 2010 at 11:57 AM
It’s not fair to count anything he did before Lagaan. he clearly began a new chapter of his career with the latter. I think everyone’s being too harsh on him. I too have criticized him on certain grounds but he has a certain integrity as a director. The box office cannot be the ultimate arbiter when it comes to deciding a director’s quality. But yes if you don’t deliver hits often enough you might become extinct. Both he and Bhansali will have problems on the next project. Bhansali just has very expensive projects. Gowariker has failed with far too many stars and the best result since Lagaan which was JA itself had too high an opportunity cost for that sort of budget which is why UTV cut him off after that film. I am reminded of J P Dutta who started off with a magnificent film in Ghulami (still to my mind the best commercial film of the last 25 years or more and then had failures in three big projects of the time (Yateem, Hathyar, Batwara). All three films were strong films but none of them worked. Again Dutta’s sense of ‘time’ was very different from that of his audience. He then tried a much more commercial Kshatriya which was easily his worst film. He then reinvented himself with his war films where each one has something to recommend it. I am not a great fan of Border but the first half of Refugee was fantastic (it came apart in the second). and I am a huge fan of LoC despite the director’s indulgence here at certain levels. It is visually a very impressive film on many counts. UJ I think is overall one of his best directed films. One might not have a taste for the subject/story, that’s a different matter. After UJ his career was basically over, he’s been trying to get something going ever since. Again sometimes you have major talents who are just not in sync with the ‘rhythms’ of their age in terms of what audiences expect. It’s one thing to make different subjects and quite another to operate with a different sense of time. I don’t necessarily see a way out for the Duttas or Gowarikers of the world. Bhansali fares better as long as he limits himself to love stories (Black is an exception) or a subject that has appeal among family audiences. But again his films are always too expensive and have almost never showed proportionate returns. In any case with these sorts of directors it’s not really as much about switching subjects. Gowariker just wouldn’t make the sort of action film to appeal to everyone.
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December 6, 2010 at 3:01 PM
The other aspect that is less often considered vis-a-vis Abhishek’s box office issues is his physicality. the kinds of roles that would do greatest justice to his physicality are not the subjects that are usually the most audience-friendly ones in this age. What would today’s audience do with Sholay or Deewar? For art or even meaningful entertainment to occur in a defining sense there must be a certain coincidence with the sociology of the age as well. Abhishek would have prospered in the 70s. Today there aren’t necessarily good enough script for his sort of brooding presence and acting skills. Now of course Bachchan was fantastic even in the likes of AAA. But those ‘comedies’ nonetheless incorporated enough ‘masala’. So Bachchan still got the chance to do action and so forth. But again Abhishek too doesn’t have a problem when he does BM or Dostana. The multliplexes are on board for the ‘metrosexual’ Abhishek. But this is not the best way to highlight his persona. Also on a Yuva sort of terrain his advantage over his contemporaries in just about every sense is pretty obvious. In Dostana the same gets reduced even if people love him here. Much as the arc of the angry young man could be traced with films like Zanjeer or Deewar or Kaala Pathar or what have you, not Abhimaan even if again people loved Bachchan in the latter. Once one gets that defining arc one can then venture into other kinds of cinema. But how can that come about in such a synthetic age? First off there aren’t the scripts but even if there were there isn’t the audience. Not that I’m calling for a simple ‘repeat’ of the 70s. Not at all! That would be completely uninteresting. Nor am I even positing a symmetry between father and son. But one also has to realize that the ‘event’ forms the star and nurtures the signature. Bachchan wasn’t in Zanjeer what he was in Deewar or what he eventually became in Lawaaris. So on and so forth. Other than Rathnam or RGV no one has explored this aspect of Abhishek’s persona consistently. Rohan Sippy might be another one. Ultimately it’s not just about doing Bazmee or Abbas-Mustaan or whoever. These might be solid commercial opportunities but these too leave unanswered the question of physicality. Because commercial cinema is built on exploiting this aspect of the star. In this sense even a lot of the riskier stuff Abhishek does doesn’t necessarily address this side of the equation. Of course it is somewhat ironic that precisely because Abhishek can be effective doing a variety of things and certainly seems to impress the directors that matter that he doesn’t necessarily have to develop a core image. Which would not be an issue if most of the films were commercial. But when you do a lot of ‘offbeat’ or risky stuff where you are essentially playing ‘character’ and you don’t do commercial films often enough it becomes a set of confused signals for the audience. Abhishek’s own ‘error’ here (for a commercial industry) is not playing signature often enough or just settling for character portrayal. This is defensible for an ‘actor’ but not a ‘star-actor’ because in any commercial industry audiences want stars to act (when they are esteemed for this reason) as opposed to stars shedding their signature completely and becoming simply actors. Note for example how Bachchan (whose instincts can never be questioned as actor but neither as star) in Mukherjee films like Mili or Jurmana is doing very different parts but nonetheless performing in a way that easily connects him with his star signature or audience expectations. De Niro displays his signature all the time in his work. very few films are exceptions to this. On the other hand Daniel Day Lewis completely metamorphoses from film to film because he has never been ‘star’ in the same way. Abhishek has chosen to follow the latter school of thought in some ways though the problem is that you cannot have a De Niro-like path but play it like Day Lewis. All of this is not necessarily intended as a criticism of Abhishek. But it’s a way of trying to understand the mismatch that often occurs between Abhishek’s work and his audience. It’s not an easy puzzle to solve. Bollywood today (unlike say Tamil cinema) is extremely resistant to the ‘authentic’ and has been for a while. But to the extent that one can go about it (I said this after Raavan also) a relatively unique path will have to be forged by Abhishek which will involve working with the ‘present’ but also subverting it. In short a strategy is required which I think goes beyond just doing obvious commercial films. Success too can contain a level of illusion as much as failure.
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December 6, 2010 at 3:07 PM
As a general matter, one should also raise the question of time, of the “personal time” (i.e. time personal to the viewer) that modern technology makes possible (Fellini’s words about the viewer becoming a petty tyrant thanks to VCR/home viewing technology come to mind) That is, when cinema becomes increasingly focused on providing stimuli, AND where home viewing technology has given birth to a generation that demands great control and “consumability”, what hope can films that need time, that need to percolate, have? Who would give Sholay time in this day and age? Even in America, is it a surprise that the best/smartest stuff tends to come from ambitious TV serials – where something like The Wire has precisely that TIME (and a producer commitment that enables them to continue for months, there isn’t really the pressure to demonstrate strong ratings in week 1 or even 3) that is denied the Big Hollywood Blockbuster?
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December 6, 2010 at 3:14 PM
absolutely.. and Fellini said what he did in the 80s.. wonder what he would have thought today! The Sholay example is particularly apt. Even in its day it took Sholay at least a week to register with the audience. A lot of people were just jolted on an initial viewing and weren’t quite sure how to take it!
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December 6, 2010 at 3:25 PM
in Hollywood Ridley Scott’s example is instructive. Consider the pace and atmospherics of an earlier work like the Duellists or even Alien. For that matter Blade Runner works hard at establishing a certain mood (though I’ve always considered it overrated in other ways). You then compare it with his contemporary stuff and most of it is so uninteresting. I found Robin Hood quite appalling. Did like the director’s cut of Kingdom of Heaven quite a bit. American Gangster was very engaging too. But in general his cinema is just so predictable these days, irrespective of the subject. Hollywood too is much like Bollywood. Compare the edgier works that came out in the mid-late 60s and then through the late 70s or so with ‘serious’ attempts today and there’s not even a comparison. It’s completely predictable, cynical cinema that is just trying to win awards. It’s not bad, just anodyne.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:24 AM
This is a mindblowing and insightful comment Satyam…and echoes very much my own thoughts, thanks muchly…
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December 8, 2010 at 8:15 AM
thanks…
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December 6, 2010 at 5:20 PM
something did go terribly wrong with KHJJS.. even though many thought it wont work, the numbers it has pulled up are very shocking to say the least.
perhaps the audience simply isnt ready to see a historical on a subject they are mostly not aware of.. and the poor promotion didnt help either..if anyone is to be blamed, its the marketing team..
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December 6, 2010 at 6:10 PM
Abhishek, Deepika, Ashutosh… And A No-Show!
Komal Nahta
It has come as a shock not just to the owners of Sarb cinema in Jalandhar but to the entire trade. One is referring to the opening of Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey at the cinema on Friday, December 3. The first show’s collection was a pathetic Rs. 2,800 at Sarb, probably among the lowest ever collection in the history of the cinema. As if this shock wasn’t bad enough, the second show at the cinema witnessed zero attendance because of which it had to be cancelled! Yet another dubious record for the cinema. Ashutosh Gowariker, whose Lagaan had been nominated for the Oscar for the best foreign film, at the helm of affairs of KHJJS, Abhishek Bachchan and Deepika Padukone as its main protagonists – and this is the kind of initial the film has managed! Sarb cinema of Jalandhar has, in its entire history, never had to cancel a show of a film on the opening day! The story in the rest of India may not be as horrendous as in Jalandhar but then, it isn’t much better either!
http://koimoi.c2w.com/2010/12/04/abhishek-deepika-ashutosh%E2%80%A6-and-a-no-show/
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December 6, 2010 at 6:17 PM
Among all the other factors discussed about the reasons for KHJJS’s failure, one I haven’t seen mentioned is the price of movie tickets, especially multiplex tickets. They have reached such levels that they now need to become a budget item for most people. On various forums I have read comments like, “I will wait for X film to come on TV/dvd, and save my money for Y film which will be coming in a month or two.” People talk of film budgets or star remunerations, but I haven’t seen this fact mentioned in such discussions. Now, in considering “competition”, a film needs to look at not only what other films are releasing along with it, or in a week or two from it, but in another month or two. In other words, people need to take a long range view.
Another comment I have seen frequently, here and elsewhere, is that audiences only want “mindless comedies” like Golmal. But this ignores the fact audiences have been rejecting all genres of films of late — Action Replay (a comedy by the current comedy king Akshay Kumar), Kites, Guzaarish, Rakta Charitra, and now KHJJS. On AR I have seen some Akshay fans post that they would wait and save their money for TMK, which makes perfect economic sense. But I think it’s a sad day when people need to manage their movie spending as carefully as managing an investment portfolio.
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December 6, 2010 at 7:04 PM
true but that would explain a low initial, not something close to zero! Also on AR and TMK releasing close together there have been other times when multiple Akshay releases have all got off to flying starts.
As a general matter though I don’t disagree that ticket prices probably exaggerate the preferences of the audience. In other words if you didn’t want to watch Guzaarish you might be persuaded at lower ticket rates. Which by the way is another disadvantage different subjects even with major stars have.
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December 6, 2010 at 7:49 PM
But this “close to zero” collection wasn’t just for KHJJS, it was also the case for Rakta Charitra, which also had a director of note and a reasonably well-known and liked star.
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December 6, 2010 at 9:18 PM
RGV always gets zero collections unless he has the BAchchans and more precisely Abhishek in a film. It’s just a fact. Rakta Charitra was never going to make a penny out of Hindi.
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December 6, 2010 at 11:03 PM
offtopic-
does anyone knw abt-
maximum city (aamir and boyle)
xtreme city (srk and schrader)
_____________________________
i am unaware whether its rumours.. or not as its gathering momentum!
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December 6, 2010 at 11:34 PM
OK, following in Rooney’s off topic steps, I just found this really intriguing video. Does anyone know what occasion it was made for? The non-Hindi stars seem to have been singing/lipsynching in their own languages, which was later dubbed over into Hindi.
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December 7, 2010 at 12:00 AM
lol sm.. i have a tendency for offtopic.. as frequently as i am found offside while playing football.. 😉
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December 7, 2010 at 10:37 AM
There is sound picture sync problem but whole song is in hindi. I do remember when thet started showing on doordarshan. I don’t think there was any special occasion.
PS – I think with Rishi the boy is Ranbir.
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December 6, 2010 at 11:47 PM
To redeem myself, here’s a slightly more on topic post:
Live Chat: Ashutosh Gowariker on December 7 at 1500 hrs IST
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/news/2010/12/06/15036/index.html
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December 7, 2010 at 12:01 AM
redeeming myself too 😉
akshay from ng saw it-
Watched Monday evening Show of KHJJS (7PM – 10 PM) at PVR. It has a capacity of almost 400 people.
Guess what, me and my wife, had the entire theater to ourselves !!
rks – thats exactly what I told her I was actually thinking wish it was our anniversary yesterday
My observation after looking at the movie was… people like good cinema, bad cinema, just about anything as long as it has some entertainment value !!
If you ask me how I felt, well I was not impressed at all with the movie. Its not funny, its not tragic, it does not evoke patriotism. Quite Lame, in my opinion. Don’t know why the critics had to say such amazing stuff about the movie.
I enjoyed all the attention though which the PVR staff was showering on us and I guess we’ve never eaten so much while watching a movie
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December 7, 2010 at 7:07 AM
Do they show films with just two people as audience?
I always thought there was a fixed lower limit, 5 or something.
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December 7, 2010 at 8:15 AM
hey old gold,
u MAY BE correct and thus my shows of kurbaan and baaz where cancelled.
but here situation is different, if i am not wrong it is produced by PVR itself.
so a producer cant order such things for his own films that too on first weekend i guess!! it has to be seen from that angle!
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December 7, 2010 at 7:11 AM
Watched KHJJS in a single screen theater in Kolkata on Sunday. Theater was 50% packed.
I went for the movie with average expectations and that’s due to the mixed reviews it had received. Taran and faridoon both the Indiafm guys had given it 4 stars even before the release of the movie. This raised my expectation quite high. But whenever Taran gives early reviews I know something is wrong there. Specially the same person had once rejected movies like Swades and CDI. Then came reviews of well known reviewers and all of them were of the opinion that movie is an average one.
After finishing the movie I realized this is not even close to Jodha Akbar forget about Lagaan and Swades. An average movie for me also. Major issue for me was Abhishek portrayal of Surjya Sen. I could not figure out the person Surjya sen. The person I was seeing onscreen was Abhishek bachhan. AG did not even bothered to work on Abhishek’s looks. Story was linear and predictable. Music and BGM both were big letdown. Shantanu Moitra could have been a far better option.
For me all the previous movies of Ashutosh be it lagaan/Swades/JA have repeat value. I have watched them repeatedly (even though all these r over 3 hours), whenever they show these on TV. But don’t think I can ever go through KHJJS again.
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December 7, 2010 at 9:20 AM
One has to really stick through a low key first half to get to the very engaging 2nd half.
Abhishek’s portrayal was low key. He really doesn’t have those hero type moments I think many expected. The movie to me wasn’t so much about Surjya Sen but about that group that rebelled. It was more an ensemble movie.
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December 7, 2010 at 9:35 AM
yes it was about the event of that attack.. some of the reviewers felt Surjya Sen hadn’t been adequately built up but the film isn’t a biopic.. it picks up ‘in the midst’… which is of course a commercial problem when the audience isn’t aware of most of the history..
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December 7, 2010 at 10:18 AM
I think the biopic on Milkha Singh will be shelved now !!
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December 7, 2010 at 7:45 AM
“Don’t know why the critics had to say such amazing stuff about the movie.”
Whee do you read these reviews. Please don’t consider stuff from Taran and others who are invited to previews before the film release. Other bonafide critics like Rajeev Masand, Mayank Shekhar have given it 2 stars or 2.5 stars are best and have called it utterly boring affair. The public is in total sync with the critics here. As was the case with Guzaarish.
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December 7, 2010 at 7:53 AM
the other day you made a similar claim about Abhishek not getting good reviews! The many links below disprove both claims. There were in addition a few articles in the media about how the film had got ‘rave reviews’. They don’t put up such pieces for a film that’s been mauled! But in any case the many reviews below should hopefully ‘persuade’ you! I see though you’ve created an opening for yourself by calling only those critics who didn’t like the film as ‘bona fide’!
As I said the other day sometimes one just reads what one wants to..
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December 7, 2010 at 9:17 AM
Barkha Dutt, Vir Sanghvi & Prabhu Chawla were also considered “bonafide” journalists a few days ago….
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December 7, 2010 at 9:39 AM
LOL! I have never set store by 99% of Indian film journalists. My only problem with Utkal here is that one can dislike a movie or performance or whatever but one doesn’t need to ‘twist’ the facts. There were very many positive reviews for the film. Having said that I’m surprised (and I brought this up in the original thread too) about Utkal’s insistence on the ‘reviews’ because with Guzaarish they were a lot more positive and he still hated the film. One should be consistent. If you like or dislike something, the ‘rest’ shouldn’t matter very much. Unless of course it’s an argument along critical lines where one should be willing to get informed by the right sort of opinion.
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December 7, 2010 at 11:49 AM
To say Hollywood is just as bad as Bollywood is plain wrong imo. The former still has craft, if not the edgiest subjects. Just look at some films released this year – Social Network, Inception, Shutter Island and Hereafter. In fact, imo they weren’t just executed well but also had edgy subjects. Even a routine actioner like Unstoppable is done with a lot of class and style and I am not talking about better special effects.
I just don’t think there is any comparison. Bollywood is still far, far behind.
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December 7, 2010 at 12:14 PM
Shutter Island though is by an old timer. Much as Mani Rathnam is not necessarily evidence of vitality in the present generation (of course this isn’t true in Tamil where there has been something of a renaissance in recent times.. one astonishingly superior to 99% of Hindi cinema). Fincher or Nolan are a bit like Mehra or Bhardwaj (or have your pick). I didn’t find Inception anything special and Nolan is an interesting director but so far I don’t believe he’s made a genuinely ‘great’ film nor Fincher for that matter (haven’t seen Social Network). I’d probably take Aronovsky over both. But my larger point wasn’t that there wasn’t good work coming out of Hollywood, just that it wasn’t as radical as the comparable films of the late 60s-late 70s period. We’re talking about a generation which included Coppola, Scorsese, Altman, Pakula, Penn, Bogdanovich, Lumet (started out much earlier but some of his most iconic stuff belongs to this decade), Pollack (similarly), Woody Allen, Kubrick (Hollywood career), Mazursky. I’m sure I’m missing a few here. They’re obviously not all of the same eminence but you have some very iconic and important films even among the lesser names. Relative to what was happening in Hollywood prior to these films these were a shock to the system in many ways. Today we have on the other hand interesting films that are predictable in the sense that their questioning seems bland. These films are not ahead of the audience. Much as RDB though a strong film in many ways cannot be compared to the best of the 70s or even some of Dutta’s best work. Because it’s political interrogation, it’s social critique is too ‘obvious’ if not tame. But on its own it’s still better than most of what’s out there. I similarly don’t find Kaminey radical in any way. So on and so forth. There are exceptions are there are in Hollywood but these don’t define a trend. When I visit or revisit some of those older Hollywood films, even the lesser works, I still detect an edge in them that contemporary Hollywood attempts seem to lack. In an odd sense though sometimes Bollywood on its very best days is more ‘radical’ relative to its industry compared to Hollywood in the same sense. Consider Dil Se in 1998. How many films even today are edgier than this? Whether one likes it or not is a different matter. A D6 attempts very interesting things. Again whether it is flawed or not is another matter and in a sense the ‘flaws’ are precisely what ‘history’ sometimes settles. Films that can be completely embraced in the present by critics are clearly not disturbing their deepest assumptions. This wasn’t true once. Some of the greatest filmmakers were royally panned by critics and provoked complete negativity in audiences. I don’t know if it was A O Scott or someone else who wondered when the last time was that a film was booed by the audience (by this standard the hysteria over Raavan suggests it was doing something right!). This sounds facile but is quite right. So many films in the 70s just didn’t find an audience nor were these completely loved by critics. I would actually expand this discussion and say the same for foreign cinema. There were very many filmmakers who were once mauled and those very same films are now considered among the greatest. Today ‘foreign’ cinema is predictable for the most part. Some very interesting films, ‘good’ films but hardly path-breaking ones. Now one might make an argument (which I have some sympathy for) that the great age of cinema is essentially behind us and in a global sense. Though it’s the youngest art/entertainment form it’s seen ‘death’ most early on!
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December 8, 2010 at 2:28 AM
Disagree totally on Nolan Satyam…..I think he’s one of the very best we have today and from MEMENTO to INCEPTION has proved it time and time again..same for THE SOCIAL NETWORK!
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December 8, 2010 at 8:15 AM
I didn’t say he wasn’t Masterpraz.. don’t disagree with that claim at all..
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December 7, 2010 at 12:53 PM
I am not disagreeing with the statement that Hollywood today is nowhere near as good as it was in the 60s-70s period but with the one that both Hollywood and Bollywood are more or less equally bankrupt. Just on the level of craft, Bollywood is so far behind. They still haven’t learned some basic editing techniques. And you may not consider Inception a great film but I have not sat through anything half as cerebral from Bollywood in years.
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December 7, 2010 at 1:00 PM
I meant Bollywood relative to its past.. but I agree with you on the rest.. wouldn’t take Inception over the best of Bollywood on ‘cerebral’ grounds though..
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December 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM
Inception is both cerebral and derivative/inspired. It’s a perfect blend of ‘ideas’ and ‘action’. What’s there to really complain? Even its fiercest critics will have to admit it’s at least a seductive experience.
Now if you are ready to pay me, I’m ready for multiple inceptions — Abhishek is the greatest star-actor of his generation!
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December 7, 2010 at 2:13 PM
I had reservations about Inception: an earlier note: “I saw Inception earlier tonight, and was more impressed than spellbound by this tale of espionage and loss set in the dreams of its protagonists. For all the talk and representations of dreams in the film,what was missing from every instance of a dream here was what Freud would have called “the uncanny,” that strangeness that is the very texture of a dream . In Inception, every aspect of the dreams can be accounted for, leading to an effect more akin to that of a puzzle, or a Rubik’s Cube. Or, most obviously, of a video game: the compartmentalized layers of the dreams in Inception are the products of a post-electronic gaming era, and have little to do with the imaginative, dense, mysterious tapestries seen only in half-light, conjured up for me by the word “dream.” As a result, the film, while always gripping, felt more than a little impoverished, missing that touch of madness that suffused the last DiCaprio film, Shutter Island.”
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December 7, 2010 at 4:54 PM
That’s a valid point, Qalandar. What I’d like to add is that Nolan doesn’t seem to be interested in ‘dreams’ alone. He has clearly manufactured a story that borrows elements from a thriller, a heist/crime caper, sci-fi (Matrix), noir and perhaps many more genres. At the same time, Inception as a script, does offer much to chew upon. The usual themes that pervade Nolan’s universe (persecution complex, disorientating/unreliable memories, the sense of severe loss and its aftermath, exploration of the “gray” shades of human behaviour etc) are all present along with the multi-layered idea of the different levels of dreams/subconscious. There are reams devoted to explaining key plot points on the internet. It’s not a shallow film by any means.
Like ‘The Dark Knight’ this is a film that has too much stuff packed in it. There’s a whole lot happening and it can be viewed as a drawback. Nolan can be faulted for trying to cover all bases and depending on the side a viewer’s interests lie (artistic or attention deprived), one can fault the film for not doing justice to either. The film works for me because I get the experience of ‘immersion’ (the ‘spell’ as it were) and also a few points to ponder. It’s a film that provides me with a stimulus on both the visceral and the intellectual level. That’s why I can’t see why anyone should be disappointed with the film.
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December 7, 2010 at 1:26 PM
On KHJJS, I think it’s time that some of the blame point towards Abhishek. His credibility as a viable star is not only in question, it’s at the point at which people are simply not interested in him at all. Bollywood is strange in the way certain stars can make a comeback from obsolescence, but no major star would ever wish to prove that theory!
It’s looking grim and bleak for Abhishek. The high hopes post Guru have been dashed and how!
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December 7, 2010 at 2:45 PM
Saket,
I think there is some truth to what you are saying. But, I believe there has to be a modifier. D6 and Raavan did not have similar fates as there WAS curiosity and interest. But, the films didnt leave upto the audience expectations. Both were fine efforts IMO,but not what the audience wanted.
And, the fact that he is getting ‘plum’ projects means implies that there is an interest in him, tho not in his oaff beat ventures. iIne cannot club KHJJS with D6 and Raavan, as KHJJS is in a different class altogether! People had no interest in the subject, whatsoever. And, the lacklustre promos and Gowariker’s reputation further killed whatever interest might have been there. And, the film itself didnt find much favor amongst a large section of those who saw it, meaning there was going to be no favorable WOM.
Still, it does mean that Abhi cannot sell enough to have people turn up for uninviting subjects, like Aamir. I, honestly dont feel that KHJJS would have any differently with any other major str, except that they probably wouldnt have accepted it and if they did, they would have tried to influence Gowariker’s handling of the film and the marketing. May be bigger opening but still would have been a resounding flop with other stars.
Sure, this hasnt helped his cause but I dont think it spells doom for Abhi. But, yes the pressure to deliver a hit is more than ever.
I dont think he has gotten any of the films because of any pressure from his dad.He has certainly benifitted from his lineage but that has been more in temrs of access and curiosity rather than anything else. Just, threw in the last bit as some have been suggesting that the reason he has been around for so long has been becasue of his father.
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December 7, 2010 at 3:09 PM
agreed on all counts.. and the one element that continues to be underestimated with respect to Abhishek is his rebound ability. Earlier it was about attracting prestige projects because that’s what he was primarily focused on. At the moment he’s decided that he needs a few commercial winners right away and he has some safe bets pronto. Not too many stars who could display this at both ends of the equation. Which does not of course mean that he isn’t in serious box office trouble. He needs pretty much a reset at this point. And as importantly he needs the audience to consider him ‘cool’ once more. From Yuva through Guru he more or less had this coalition. The box office, the performances, the cool factor. Since then unfortunately that entire coalition has come apart. Barring Dostana which is too little given all the other releases (but of course here too note how a fairly mediocre attempt in Desi girl became a big deal) and even if it has transcended its gross. He has to put that ‘coalition’ back together. Not expecting anything from Game because I don’t know the director but DMD I believe will begin the turnaround. Because the BM deal gets you enough of a gross or better with the multiplexes, it gets you the cool factor back and there’s enough of a performance moment with this sort of part. Yes it’s set in the Goa drug scene so it won’t be family fare but should be alright with younger audiences. He follows that up with Italian Job and then the Bazmee stuff or whatever. He has Balki and RGV otherwise. Possibly Dostana 2 (though I’d love it if he didn’t do this for other reasons!). And he’s fine. But yeah he can’t afford any more failure at this point irrespective of the reasons. Because KHJJS rightly or wrongly has brought him to ground zero. One doesn’t have to subscribe to the usual foolishness (hey Abhishek’s not a star or whatever) to know this. Because major stars also play by higher standards. And he needs to regain the momentum he’s been continually losing since Guru.
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December 7, 2010 at 4:22 PM
I think it’s stupid to assume that Abhishek’s lasted for 10 years because of his lineage. In fact, after Dhoom 1 to Guru, his career had some serious traction. Not at the level to compete with the top 3 or 4 but pretty much on the upswing.
The problems started post Guru. I love Delhi-6 as a film though I’m not a fan of Raavan. I don’t find any fault in Abhishek picking up these films. He’d be extremely daft if he hadn’t, to be honest. Perhaps he’s just plain unlucky to star in these films, which generated enough curiousity but only derision afterwards. Where I tend to differ from your theory is that KHJJS wasn’t affected by Delhi-6 or Raavan. I think the response to Raavan also killed any interest in KHJJS. Funny as it is, Raavan isn’t seen as a Mani Rathnam failure. It’s seen as an Abhishek one! Very much unfair but that probably explains the abysmal opening of KHJJS.
To some extent the present film culture is to blame. The present day audience doesn’t want to see a film about actors wearing Dhotis & Kurtas inciting a revolution. It’s somehow uncool. I agree that’s a despicable attitude towards cinema, especially if we compare Golmaal’s success against the backdrop.
Having said that, Abhishek’s failures (and here I think Raavan more than Delhi-6 which did receive a slightly better response) killed any chance the film had of getting an opening.
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December 7, 2010 at 4:32 PM
Yes but there had to be something specific to KHJJS also because I believe that a new Mehra or a new Rathnam with Abhishek would get vastly better responses. Which doesn’t mean he had nothing to do with the response.
I’d say that post-Guru he was very close to being considered among the very elite stars, he needed a breakout box office grosser, that never arrived and eventually everything else came apart too.
Part of the reason with those roles is though that Abhishek is much more likely to do risky stuff over and beyond what other stars would do even if they worked with risky directors and/or subjects. So for example Hrithik did a JA with Gowariker, it’s not clear he would have done a KHJJS. Aamir did RDB with Mehra, I am pretty certain he wouldn’t have done D6 in its current form with him. His project with Rathnam never got started, clearly he had some issues. So there are stars who will work in interesting setups based on certain conditions. I can’t blame them because the risks of failure are too great. Abhishek is just willing to go further. Obviously he expected D6 or Raavan to work but I just think that unless he were completely forced to not take up these offers based on his standing he would take similar risks again. I can appreciate this approach. There’s no point in working with an ‘auteur’ if you’re going to add conditions and so forth. I can certainly see either logic here. I will say though that truly great or truly important films in a historic sense are not made just by playing safe. If you get Awara or Sholay or Deewar fantastic but it is far more usual to see the Guru Dutt kind of scenario where the present isn’t kind on you and you’re redeemed later on. What is truly risky and truly radical one way or the other is also that which is ‘out of time’ with respect to the present. Salim-Javed wrote some extraordinary scripts, the greatest of Hindi cinema and they had the miracle of Bachchan to close that gap. Abhishek leaving aside everything else has just not had those sorts of scripts. This is just not the age for it.
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December 7, 2010 at 5:01 PM
Agreed. More so with the ‘this is not the age for it’ part. It’s not the age for being a cultured viewer. Perhaps this was always the case (earlier filmmakers survived because there weren’t that many entertainment options!) but the levels to which films are meant to be ‘consumed’ these days, there’s not much difference between a film a box of popcorn!
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December 7, 2010 at 5:35 PM
well said.. and again we talk about Indian contexts here but the same is true the world over.. Unstoppable is a superb thriller but it’s an old-fashioned kind of film. It will do about 75-80m, a fraction of what a similar film with explosions and what not would make. Pelham 123 made even less than this. In every avenue of life we are assaulted by audio/video stimuli. Cable news is itself pornographic in its effects. Then there are all the other screens we constantly deal with from our laptops (constant scrolling, switching between windows etc) to our iPhones. ADD becomes the normal human condition soon enough. The films which people find ‘boring’ today are vastly different from those people would have found ‘boring’ in say the 70s. Then there are other ‘sociological’ factors. In urban environments around the world lives are far more ‘stressful’ than they once might have been, the sheer rhythm of things is much more rapid by an order of magnitude. People then at the end of a long day or week where they’re navigating subway/train rides and traffic jams and workdays where they just have to be more and more productive every single day just want to relax or watch brain-dead entertainment. I can certainly understand this. Plus there is in India the new phenomenon of taking clients to movies. This has filled the ‘game’ space of the US for example where clients are regularly taken to sports events. In India there isn’t anything besides cricket and here other than 20/20 the format isn’t really conducive to business arrangements. But you have the movies. Are you likely to take a client to Hum Tum or Khakee? Mostly the former! Finally there are many people for whom it’s the family night out at the multiplex. They regard it as a complete movie and meal package. Again they’re not looking for anything more than popcorn entertainment. So just as a structural matter things are very difficult for producers of serious cinema. In the West you have enough of a minority audience for limited release films and so forth. Not so in India where the idea is ‘hey if it’s not Race it’s good enough for DVD!’. Piracy is a huge issue, it offers an option where there is no such option, at least on that scale in the US or elsewhere in the West. It’s all a rather dismal state of affairs. And again because of all these factors audiences are very unlikely to have those attention spans or to even have the will to develop them. It’s not even entertainment anymore at any level much as it’s not the news or the reality show or whatever. It’s just a set of stimuli. We are all part of this very same world. It’s upto us to develop those greater attention spans. But I suppose one could do well without this also!
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December 7, 2010 at 4:35 PM
analyzed the reasons for KHJJS here:
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December 8, 2010 at 7:00 AM
but the enigma is that still abhi is getting films right and left! have all the film-makers gone nuts??? i think there will be very serious thinking on abhi’s credibility as a SOLO HERO post this failure…..he might be a safer choice in multi-hero projects……..where he doesn’t have to share the entire blame of failure…..
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December 8, 2010 at 8:20 AM
“but the enigma is that still abhi is getting films right and left!”
Now isn’t that something to think about?!
In terms of his upcoming films he has the Balki solo, DMD was of course already in the works (Rana Daggubati is a factor in Andhra) as was Game. Italian Job has Bobby Deol and Neil Mukesh (hardly the kinds of stars to take the ‘blame’ off Abhishek!). But yeah no doubt he has to build up his box office rather seriously from here. This guy can’t be kept down though one way or the other!
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December 8, 2010 at 8:37 AM
out of these, GAME looks promising (abbas-mastaan project it is?) – the rest will tank (only BALKI’s film will not loose money as he would make it on a shoe-string budget but then it won’t be a big commercial success also) – what else? Dhoom 3 – ya, those kind of projects will work for abjr.
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December 8, 2010 at 8:47 AM
No Game is an Abhinay Deo film and he’s making his debut so nothing can be said about this. DMD is Rohan Sippy, Italian Job is Abbas-Mustaan, there’s Hera Pheri 4 with BAzmee (with him in the Akshay role, Nana in Paresh’s and Dutt in Shetty’s part) and Rohit Shetty (Bol Bachchan with Devgan..), there’s one with Balki and RGV (which also includes Bachchan and Dutt). No D3 at the moment. He has a lot going for him still! LOL, you might be disappointed!
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December 8, 2010 at 8:53 AM
Idea,
No problem with having an opinion or prognasticating doom and gloom but atleast have the facts straight, so we can take what you say seriously!
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December 8, 2010 at 10:44 AM
“LOL, you might be disappointed!”
i will be mighty happy if more than 2 films out of these work for abjr – but i m already so much disappointed with the spate of flops he has given that anything more will be icing on the cake – industry is loosing money big time on this guy – whether u want to put him on high pedestal or make a temple of him – facts (rajen wanted me to state some facts on the correct names! – well, i may be wrong there but it is there for all to see how much money industry must have lost on this guy’s films in last few years!!!) btw, rajen – u don’t have to take me seriously as i don’t take u ever 🙂 chill!
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December 8, 2010 at 11:07 AM
But Idea there is a certain lack of credibility with what you’re saying for this reason — when Abhishek has the 30-35 crore flop you don’t say it doesn’t matter.. with Guzaarish this is suddenly ok just because KHJJS is infinitely worse? With Guzaarish you said you don’t care about the box office at all because you liked the film. Doesn’t the goalpost keep changing. And I would take it seriously if someone said Abhishek has had too many failures (something no one sane can deny) but then I remember the sky falling just with JBJ! Just one film after Guru! Similarly all those who now seem to have very fond memories of his ’04/’05 weren’t exactly saying this at the time. neither at the time of Guru. So in my view the argument is always framed a certain way to ‘diss’ Abhishek. And while the latter’s box office might have provided everyone a great deal of ammunition this itself does not excuse a certain lack of integrity on the part of many who will use any and every argument, often even mutually exclusive ones at the same time! Hrithik has had two big flops this year. Forget Abhishek. Why isn’t anyone coming down hard on him?! What’s he had since ’06? Three releases. JA was just decent relative to its scale and then these two. He hardly has the greatest lineup coming up either. Whether commercially or prestige-wise. I’m not making a case for anyone to ‘attack’ Hrithik but Abhishek with one tenth this record would be getting hit. And we saw this with JBJ. We even saw this with UJ where he was getting mauled for failing in a heroine-centric period piece! I have myself said he’s hit a certain ground zero at the box office with KHJJS. It can’t be more starkly framed than that. But let’s keep the debate honest!
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December 8, 2010 at 11:40 AM
Satyam, well said – i recently revisited SHARARAT (my favorite abhishek film) – if i disliked him, i wudn’t do that – and mind it! i did watch this film only for him – i can watch REFUGEE n no. of times only for him and kareena (incidentally, KAREENA – i feel has a worse track record than abjr – and again she keeps getting films! so abjr is not alone in this league) but i want for abjr is a clean BO success record something like his dad had (forget khans and roshans and kapoors) – and he has been given enough chances – DRONA (a superhero film), RAAVAN, Kheile….(PATRIOTIC film),…..in many different genres, he had the opportunity to deliver a solo-hero hit like BIG B did (and he did it with worse scripts than abjr’s film-scripts – as we both know it) – so a big question is – why abjr is not able to do it???? because, paying public (most of that segment) has not accepted him as a HERO (a solo star who can carry films on his own shoulder regardless of script/director/producer etc…) – do u agree with this or not? i m not talking about his potential (which u always seem to be mixing up with my comments as if i am someone who believes that he has no potential)
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December 8, 2010 at 12:15 PM
Kareena cannot be compared with him (incidentally she now has 3I and Golmaal! one of the magazines has called her the top actress!) because no matter how big Indian films are structurally not dependent on female stars the way they are on male ones.
On the Abhishek films that haven’t worked I don’t think there is any case that any of those would have worked with any other star. With the possible exception of KHJJS which might have done much better with Aamir. All the rest would not have worked with any other star exactly the way they are.
As for the Bachchan thing surely he cannot be blamed for not being Bachchan! But let’s look at reality here. Bachchan’s poor films of the 80s were usual masala fare that offered the audience the ‘goods’. That sort of stuff works today also. Bachchan could get it done in terrible films but he could still on his own make up for these. However those films weren’t ‘terrible’ the way Drona is terrible. They were entertaining formats greatly elevated by Bachchan. In the 70s though he lived through the greatest scripts of Hindi cinema. But when he did the hrishikesh Mukherjee films, specially later the returns were nowhere close. The principal problem with any analysis of Abhishek’s career is that unless one can make a plausible argument that those exact films would work with someone else the only case one has made is that Abhishek has been foolish with his choices. And we’ve seen this elsewhere. Hrithik couldn’t get to D6/Raavan level with Guzaarish. Those films were disliked or hated, got bad or terrible reviews, Guzaarish got great reviews in every sense and the WOM was good enough too. What happened? How did a massive scale film like JA open? It had to depend on WOM eventually. That’s not a star opening a film is it? What happened to Swades? This was the Lagaan director’s first film post-Lagaan and had a very strong SRK at the time. And Swades too wasn’t hated like Raavan or some of the other stuff Abhishek has done. When JBJ flopped I made the claim that it wouldn’t have worked with anyone and Akshay proved it soon enough with Tashan and CCTC, films that did maybe even worse than JBJ. And if the audience hasn’t accepted Abhishek as a solo hero how did Guru do so well when he was pretty much the whole film and had the most larger than life role of all his films? Again all of these objections I raise are so obvious that it seems hard for me to believe these haven’t occurred to you on your own! Ranbir had a big one in APKGK and then a complete loser in Rocket Singh right after. What happened? He just had AA recently. What happened? And all these other stars are still doing films far safer than Abhishek’s attempts. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t on the one hand call D6 or Drona or Raavan terrible and then turn around and also state Abhishek wasn’t accepted in them. What happened to Hrithik with Kites? This was his strength genre. Why couldn’t he save it? Again I just find it extremely hard to believe that you’re completely satisfied with Abhishek’s performance in Refugee or Shararat but have found him disappointing in every recent film! Even many of your examples just ‘kill with kindness’. Look at your analogies. C’mon!
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December 7, 2010 at 1:35 PM
I watched the film and found it very boring frankly. And I have really like all other Gowariker movies so far except that Rashee atrocity. It’s not Abhi’s fault though – there is nothing great about his performance here, but he was definitely competent.
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December 8, 2010 at 12:04 AM
Business Talk With Taran Adarsh
Questions that need to be addressed
December 8, 2010 – 07:42 IST
Between November first week and December first week, in a span of just one month, the industry is poorer by at least Rs. 80 crores, courtesy biggies like ACTION REPLAYY, GUZAARISH and now KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY. I am not including the remaining releases [low cost and medium-budget fares] that disappeared without creating any kind of a flutter or excitement at the box-office.
Is the common man in no mood to spend his hard-earned money on films? Has he suddenly lost interest or is his interest limited to a handful of projects only? Is the barrage of new releases responsible for making him overtly choosy? Is the moviegoer interested in watching films that provide entertainment, which transports him to a world of make-believe, not serious/realistic cinema? Are ticket prices too steep for him to venture out for each and every movie, week after week? Are we churning out bad films and therefore, getting what we deserve?
Films like GUZAARISH and KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY enjoyed a strong word of mouth, but, unfortunately, the lavish praises and applause didn’t translate into great numbers at the box-office. Films like GUZAARISH and KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY may have dared to narrate hitherto unknown stories, but the economics led to their downfall. Films like GUZAARISH and KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY have to be made in tight budgets and released in limited screens. But, sadly, it’s all about extracting the best in the opening weekend itself and if you don’t score in those three days, the obituary of a film is penned before the weekend comes to a close.
That brings me to another pertinent question: Is the era of word of mouth over? Do films pick up after an unenergetic and lazy start at the ticket window? Well, films like BAGHBAN, TAARE ZAMEEN PAR, A WEDNESDAY and PAA did embark on a shaky note, but gathered strength before Day 1 came to a close. But these are isolated cases. The flow of new films is so strong these days, with each week witnessing 3/4/5 new films every week, that the chances of sustaining beyond the opening week is getting more and more remote.
As far as KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY is concerned, the film was never expected to fetching a flying start, a la DABANGG or GOLMAAL 3, but the trade was confident that the film would gather steam if the audience feedback was strong enough. However, the disheartening and off-putting numbers prove that the film didn’t get the audience mandate, despite a good section of movie-going audience liking the film. The film is an unmitigated disaster!
The Hindi version of RAKHT CHARITRA 2 – one of the bests attempts of RGV, in my opinion – may not have worked for various reasons [too much blood and gore and minimal promotion?], but the economics were right. The makers should recover the costs from the Tamil and Telugu versions. Notwithstanding the fate of the Hindi version, its investors should smile when they glance at their balance sheet.
PHAS GAYE RE OBAMA, which was released in limited shows at limited screens, in a handful of cities, started on a feeble note, but picked up at several screens on Saturday and Sunday. The low cost film may not amass a fortune from India theatrical business, but the good word of mouth should ensure healthy returns from Satellite and Home Video rights.
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December 8, 2010 at 3:18 AM
“Films like GUZAARISH and KHELEIN HUM JEE JAAN SEY enjoyed a strong word of mouth”
Taran has lost it totally…He is just trying to defend his high ratings for these movies…
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December 8, 2010 at 7:01 AM
Guzaarish has fared much better at the BO (30 cr NETT?) than KHJJS…..
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December 8, 2010 at 7:37 AM
But then also we can not say Guzaarish had a good word of mouth as we can see this from its trending. It opened far better than KHJJS but that’s obvious. Anyday HR is far bigger crowd puller than Abhi.
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December 8, 2010 at 8:22 AM
doubt this film will do more than 25 crores total. The BOI numbers have been rather liberal here. But yeah no comparison with KHJJS which won’t even do 10 crores!
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December 8, 2010 at 8:32 AM
Biggest Clash Ever Diwali 2011?
Wednesday 8th December 2010 15.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
There will huge fireworks at the box office next year on Diwali if everything goes to schedule. If everything was to play out well then there are three film’s aiming for a Diwali 2011 release at present.
The three films are Ra1 with Shahrukh Khan and Kareena Kapoor, Desi Boyz with Akshay Kumar and John Abraham and Bol Bachan with Ajay Devgn and Abhishek Bachchan. This would easily be the biggest clash ever if they were all to release on Diwali. It remains to be seem what happens to the schedule over the next nine months but it can confidently said today that Diwali cannot accommodate three big films, even two is stretching it
The most important factor for any big release today is to have an open first week because that is when a major film gets two thirds of its domestic theatrical revenue.
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December 8, 2010 at 8:34 AM
would be insane for all three to release on the same day.. doubt that’s going to happen. Even two shouldn’t come on that date. Also if Bol Bachchan is the confirmed title for that film I’m surprised Devgan has agreed to this.
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December 8, 2010 at 12:25 PM
Satyam, the question whether someone else could salvage Abhishek’s flops (D6, Raavan or KHJJS) is a valid one. But there’s also a counter question. Can Abhishek give the sort of opening in an out and out commercial fare like Aamir, SRK, Hrithik, Salman or even Ranbir?
His best opening, not accounting for inflation, has come in Dostana. And if I remember correctly, that didn’t do much more than 25 crores in its first week.
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December 8, 2010 at 12:49 PM
Dostana was 26-28 crores or so in week 1. But this wasn’t the maximum opening he could have had for this genre. Because of the gay theme many family types who would have normally seen this genre stayed away. BnB, Sarkar, Dus all had excellent openings. BM too was very good given it a more niche effort than those other films. Guru actually had an excellent opening for that sort of film. JBJ after becoming a complete disaster following the weekend still pulled in 20 crores. So it clearly started off very well. D6 and Raavan after being complete failures still pulled in 35 crores or so (less if you believe BOI). How many stars have disasters that gross as much as Raavan?! SR for that kind of grim subject did quite well in week 1. By the way I hate to say this but correlate Bachchan’s initials without Abhishek in that entire period and certain sobering facts arise. Not that Bachchan himself has done sensible stuff most of the time.
There are two separate questions to be asked though — can those other stars you mention produce anything comparable to their best openings in the Abhishek films. I doubt it. Their own careers in each case make this obvious. I’ve just offered examples. But pound for pound if everyone did their strength genres what would happen? Er.. the issue here is that Abhishek doesn’t have a strength genre! When BnB or Dus did very well in ’05 why wouldn’t he have continued getting great initials with those genres since the latter have continued to do well?! the thing is initials are maximized with repetition. When stars become attached to a genre and audiences start expecting certain things. Akshay started getting massive initials for his comedies after doing many of them successfully. Earlier the initials were good but not fantastic. This is just a basic box office fact in every industry of the world! So Abhishek has not tied himself to genre. Hence today even when he does a genre that is otherwise strong I wouldn’t expect the sort of initial that another star more attached to the genre would have. Some genres are strong enough to override this as well. Race more or less opened in the same range as D2. Does this mean the stars were comparable?
But let me put it this way — if you have Hrithik in Italian Job versus Abhishek in the same who gets a better opening. Without doubt Hrithik (unless Italian Job pulls a surprise here and gets the biggest possible initial)! This is not news. That’s his genre. Frankly the only way Abhishek can get really massive genres is if he becomes more consistent at the box office. Because that will establish his credibility with the audience. I don’t believe he’ll ever do it just the genre way because he’s not going to stick to a genre. Yeah if he does a Bazmee type deal with some regularity or the Italian Job thing the same way then you’ll see those initials increase. But he doesn’t have that genre linkage. The most obvious path for him after his rise were to either do the metrosexual thing (Dus, BM) or the overman deal (Sarkar, Guru) or something more purely masala like BnB. But he never followed these genres in any consistent sense if at all.
By the way what does Ranbir’s career really prove? Saawriya was a disaster, BeH made as much as D6 (!), APKGK was a big one. Rocket Singh was a total flop even for its scale. Rajneeti was huge (this is hardly the typical release given everything that as stuffed into this one). AA was once again a flop. What’s so spectacular here? Salman shouldn’t be on your list. In the entire past decade he’s been extremely poor at the box office by and large. He’s just reinvented himself with masala recently. Aamir is in a different league altogether. Hrithik hasn’t had a big initial since D2. Not in JA, forget Guzaarish. And Kites would have had one except that it was a washout. Before ’06 his last real success was KNPH (!) not counting K3G. Forget Abhishek. Is his really the most spectacular 10 year career? Specially given he’s been a hit since his very first?
Facts cannot be used selectively. But also you can’t use facts without analysis. So yeah if you want me to say that Abhishek cannot open many commercial genres like some of these others guys I’ll accept that. But without any context whatsoever what does it mean?!
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December 8, 2010 at 1:01 PM
“So Abhishek has not tied himself to genre.”
Whose fault is that? Box office history isn’t written by stars who can’t get the best initials.
Ranbir has at least opened APKGK and Raajneeti. And Salman has opened Wanted, not to mention Dabangg. The former actually has a better opening than any Abhishek starrer barring Dhoom-2. That too relying on single screen audiences. Abhishek frankly isn’t in the same league as Salman. He doesn’t have the fan following!
Hrithik still opened Kites to north of 40 crores. SRK opened MNIK to over 40 as well.
Where is Abhishek’s 40 crore opening? Absent that, how can one even call him a star in the same bracket as Aamir, SRK, Hrithik, Salman and Ranbir?
You bring up ‘Race’ as a counterpoint. That’s an anomaly. Like Golmaal-3! The thing about the stars I mention is that they have at least 2 “solo” 40+ crore openings to their name. That’s significant and in my opinion, the only criteria to separate a bonafide star from an aspirant in that category…
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December 8, 2010 at 1:18 PM
‘Whose fault is that? Box office history isn’t written by stars who can’t get the best initials.”
that’s a different debate though.
“Ranbir has at least opened APKGK and Raajneeti.”
Abhishek has opened many films too. I just gave you some examples.
“Hrithik still opened Kites to north of 40 crores. SRK opened MNIK to over 40 as well.”
Don’t believe either initial was north of 40 but yes big enough in each case. Again not sure how this disproves anything I’ve said. You’re making your initial claim with examples. I haven’t disagreed.
“You bring up ‘Race’ as a counterpoint. That’s an anomaly. Like Golmaal-3! ”
Actually Golmaal 2 opened like G3 also. It just didn’t sustain like the latter. Race 2 will open even bigger than the first! Hit comedies by the way are not anomalies.
“The thing about the stars I mention is that they have at least 2 “solo” 40+ crore openings to their name.”
You either do it for inflation or not. If you don’t Salman has just one over 40. hrithik has none. Even if I give you Kites that’s one film. Ranbir has two (accepting APKGK which again might have been below 40). But including inflation, which is the only sane way of doing it, there’s no way you wouldn’t get a 40 crore opening for BnB today. You’d probably get something close for Dus. Sarkar would be 30 crores if not more. Guru would be 30-35 crores.
But again not sure what the debate is. You haven’t shown me how Abhishek’s films do better with other stars. You haven’t shown me how those other stars haven’t been mortal doing their own ‘different’ stuff. The fact that they nonetheless have better box office track records than Abhishek is not debatable (in most if not all cases). But again that I’ve already accepted. Abhishek has some very commercial films coming up now. Even though he hasn’t tackled these genres before let’s see how these open and fare. At least we’d be comparing like for like. You want to compare Kites with D6 but not Kites with Guzaarish!
On Salman by the way for years no really serious Bollywood director was willing to sign him. If he was one of the top stars nonetheless it must have been a well kept secret. he’s definitely reinvented himself with Wanted and now of course with Dabangg. In many ways I think he has a better path ahead than SRK though Salman being Salman is more than likely to mess things up once again.
It seems to me that all you’re saying is if Abhishek gets a 40 crore initial tomorrow you’ll be satisfied! You have a lower bar for him than I do!
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December 8, 2010 at 1:32 PM
BnB, Dus and Sarkar aren’t Abhishek’s hits alone. None of them are solo efforts. No one can neglect Amitabh’s presence in BnB or Sarkar. He was a riot in the former and came in for the lion’s share of the praise in both films!
It’s not about other stars being “mortal” doing different films, it’s about Abhishek being always mortal, whether the films are commercial or different. I’m not comparing Kites with D6, but Kites with Dostana! Do you see the difference?
Salman was down and out, I agree. But he did have a core fan following. He somehow never lost it and regained some momentum post DKD. That and he started playing to his strengths, which is why Wanted and Dabangg worked so well.
“It seems to me that all you’re saying is if Abhishek gets a 40 crore initial tomorrow you’ll be satisfied! You have a lower bar for him than I do!”
Not only me but the scores of others who doubt his credentials as a star. At this point of time, it’s only about numbers. The rest can be debated once those numbers are registered not once, but at least 3 or 4 times.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:35 PM
I have a different take on BnB and Sarkar but even if I didn’t I would have to look at Bachchan’s initials elsewhere and come to a different conclusion but this debate is just getting too long and I’ve a feeling I’m just repeating myself at this point.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:00 PM
The answer is, Saket – No. Not at the moment. At present, all the five you mentioned have a better BO standing than Abhishek.
I think the point here is has Abhi really reached the point f no return and my belief is – NO.
He still has a lot of decent projects on hand and continues to get offers from both commercial and not-so commercial makers. He has enough talent to turn this around. He certainly is in an unenviable position in some ways and each failure ( whether his fault or not) is damaging.
I think all those observations are valid. But, to right him off and to imply he has too many oppurtunities beacause of his lineage, writing off his films before we know enough about them and the myth of sixteen straight flops – these are all idiotic.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:07 PM
Yes, he has the talent. There’s no question about that.
But you have to understand where the skepticism emanates from. He’s just not getting hits! If I had to bet my money on him, I’d have to first go and see a shrink. I’m talking only on purely commercial grounds, of course.
I hope he makes a comeback. I sincerely do but how do I know it’s going to happen? Through luck or otherwise, his films tend to flop. Frankly, after KHJJS, his stock is at an all time low!!
Having said that, I’d like to see him getting solo hits! BW would be a different industry otherwise…
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December 8, 2010 at 1:20 PM
SAKET- clearly theres a problm with abhi here imo!
he has never built a fan base.. and if so.. when ever did movies like Khjjs.. he lacks the concentration and impact level and sincerity.. like his offscreen iamge doesnt go with his roles!!
look at aamir when he promotes a movie he looks the character be it nikumbh, ghajini, or rancho!!
when u do diff stuff u cant carry him like offscreen image.. as ppl of idea fans wont turn up for his movies.. and those who can cant identify with his ads.. or kwk image!
its a image crisis.. he doesnt talk with his audience or connect correctly
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December 8, 2010 at 1:41 PM
Yes, no doubt, we keep coming back to Aamir. There’s no one more adept at marketing movies. I daresay, he’s the best at creating buzz about any movie he’s associated with.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:33 PM
fair enough…
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December 8, 2010 at 12:59 PM
satyam – I have no problem in the defense that you put up for Abhishek. I am perfectly with you when you say that Abhishek has been doing a lot of experimental stuff and maybe his masala fares will tell his true worth. I wish him luck. However I have a problem with your argument when you compare him particularly with Hrithik (maybe also SRK but the comparison it seems has been more with Hrithik). On one hand you say that Hrithik could not open a different film like JA but it had to rely on WOM. However it is ironic that the WOM taht drew the crowd was mostly positive about Hrithik and to some degree Hrithik Ash chemistry not as much about the film so Hrithik has a winner in hands as his performance gets appreciated and the film for its genre does well wordlwide at the BO. Then you say that Hrihtik could not sustain Kites – here your paramter seems to have changed again so what you seem to be suggesting is that whilst Kites did get a very good opening the film capsizes becasue of poor WOM. So you can judge a star’s power either on WOM or opening. The paramters should not change to suit an argument. Even then Kites managed closed to 50 crores in India despite being a very poor film and being rejected. JA manages 60 crores again despite being slow, a period film and what have you. Guzaarish may have fared poorly at the BO but then again Hrithik will emerge as a winner because of his performance. And I willl not even count Hrithik’s BBs.
My point is that whatever Abhishek has to prove he will in his own course of time – I do not think it is essential to compare him with each and every actor and their history to prove a point. No one here is saying that he cannot do it – given the right platform I am sure he will. If Salman can strike back after 17 flops so can Abhishek and that for you can be the closest comparison.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:27 PM
Perhaps I should have been clearer. IF everything you’re saying about JA is right Guzaarish would have worked too. Hrithik got even better reviews here and the film was certainly reviewed as well as JA. The actress was also the very same here. Why were the results so dramatically different?
WOM and opening go hand in hand. No film can run without good or at least average WOM (depending on the genre.. for OSO average is good enough, for JA it has to be good). What happens with films like JA is that the star cannot really attract the audiences in the same way. However once the film is liked the star factor can kick in. Because without a star the film in question would make vastly less even with great WOM. So for example Wednesday makes under 10 crores with excellent WOM. Kites by the way shows Hrithik is great in that genre and therefore the film opened well. Never talked about Kites in any other context. But for this sort of genre opening it well is a given for someone like Hrithik. If hrithid had seen this sort of WOM with JA it wouldn’t have made more than 15-20 crores total! Hrithik has been very mortal since 2006 even including JA. And his blockbusters excluding K3G are four in ten years, three with his father (one with his debut, one in ’03, one in ’06) and D2 (also ’06). he’s had many many high profile failures between KNPH and ’06. He was being written off before KMG arrived! Again since ’06 what’s so great about the record? You don’t act in disasters and save them with good reviews specially when you’ve had Kites the very same year.
On the comparisons these are often forced upon me. In fairness though you also have to see what the competition is or isn’t doing.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:32 PM
anyway guys this debate has gone on long enough.. I don’t have anything to add to everything I’ve said here..
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December 8, 2010 at 1:19 PM
Sorry for butting in, but you forgot Koi Mil Gaya for Hrithik in ’03! Not only a big hit, but the biggest hit of that year! 🙂
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December 8, 2010 at 1:30 PM
Agree with Saket and Rajen.
There is only one way for Abhi or any other to become a Bonafide Big star and that is to give big huge openers.
Till now Abhi has had some few good openers,nothing ground shaking, not to get into the amount of failures.
The day Abhi starts doing that, why will anyone question it. Fair Game, he will be in the top echelon.
Ofcourse doing different movies come with their own benefits of recognition and praise/acclaim etc, but here we are only talking BO and also that Abhi does has aspirations and does do Commercial movies also.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:34 PM
nothing much to disagree with here Doga..
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December 8, 2010 at 1:35 PM
Ofcourse during 04 he got Dhoom/Yuva.
05 he had 4 success including Big one in BNB
06 he had D2/KANK(though he got lesser credit but nothing like being part of successfull movies).
07 started with a bang. (Guru)He was all set to enter the top.(he was already in top 5 range)
Now why compare Abhi with other stars, lets see where he is in Dec 10 comapared to Jan 07(almost 4 years).
Some thing gone wrong here, instead of going up or even sustaining, he is nowhere compared to his own standing in Early 07.
Again, i liked him a lot in Guru and Yuva but strictly BO here.
Food for Thought.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:41 PM
Talking of KANK, here again i liked Abhi more than anyone, in a movie i didnt like otherwise also.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:39 PM
Every star has been mortal at many points – without naming disaters and flops in anyone’s filmography – I cannot think of anyone who has not had disasters and flops. No one at any given point should be sitting on their past laurels (why just Hrithik) – such are the ways of competition, industry and most importantly the whims of the public. The essence of the arugument – btw not staged by me is about Abhsiehk’s capability as an opener, star etc.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:50 PM
that’s fair Julie but I have brought up SRK’s or Hrithik’s failures only because people often switch the goalpost when it’s Abhishek. In other words the other stars should be taken to task for their failures but at that point suddenly Abhishek becomes an appropriate point of reference. So KHJJS is doing worse than UJ in absolute terms but this hardly saves Guzaarish. That these stars are otherwise ahead of Abhishek even with their failures is not something I’ve ever disputed.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:11 PM
Sure satyam. Failure of KHJJS does not spare Guzaarish. notwithstanding that Hrithik wiill have a lot to gain as an actor – but a flop is a flop and sadly as we have discussed before Indian audience by and large does not have an appetite for good experimental cinema.
That is why I am not writing off Abhishek. He can do well in commercial films particularly out and out multistarrer masala fare.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:13 PM
yeah but a star also has limited years of youth to make that sort of big impact.. before you know it time passes.. it’s been 4 years just since Guru!
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December 8, 2010 at 1:41 PM
and might I add that I personally do not beleive that anyone’s career in this industry is over – till the industry says exit.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:44 PM
On KHJJS, the Guy i usually get Indore numbers from pretty much refused to give Monday numbers.
Hopefully Abhi will start next year on the right note with Game.
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December 8, 2010 at 1:48 PM
not sure about this with Deo.. this is the sort of Hollywoodized subject that looks good in previews but can easily be messed up. I am looking for DMD to be an important film If Game works it will be a bonus.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:08 PM
Abhishek’s true opening potential cannot be estimated based on the type of films he has been doing recently just like SRK’s true potential shouldn’t be estimated based on Swades, Paheli, MNIK etc. I think Abhi’s coming films will decide whether he is a star or not. I wish him luck, I think he works hard.
And I think the whole opening thing has sort of become ridiculous now. Now it’s the genre, set-up that decides the opening (see Race, Golmaal 3 etc.) The big opening scenario is becoming more and more like Hollywood now, they have got blockbusters driven by special effects, we have tacky action thrillers and imbecilic comedies.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:12 PM
you make a good point in that genres today drive openings even far more than stars.. the latter ones when they’re smart tend to latch on to the right genres.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:22 PM
I don’t agree. BW is still a very star-centric industry.
And regarding Abhishek’s star status, you can only compare films that he has already done. You can’t make up a “strength” genre for him, if he himself isn’t willing to find one. If he has somehow put a cap on the kind of initial he can generate by doing a certain kind of cinema, that does not provide the excuse to give him a long rope when commercial standards (specifically BO openings) seem to be going north of 80 crores in a week!
You can only judge something based on the evidence in front of your eyes.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:30 PM
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. But analysis is important because not everything can be explained in terms of what’s out there in an obvious sense. So for example if he wasn’t considered a good actor or better than most of his contemporaries why was he landing some very high prestige deals that really any of his contemporaries would have done? SRK wasn’t refusing Rathnam right? but the latter then did three films with Abhishek. Or Mehra had the world at his feet after RDB. Why Abhishek (he wanted Abhishek for RDB too and even for his debut film but that’s another issue)? Then Abhishek’s box office got much shakier but Gowariker still wanted him for KHJJS. So on and so forth. Similarly why does Bazmee reinvent HP with Abhishek in Akshay’s role? Why does Rohit Shetty not take someone else with Devgan after a 100 crore film? Why is he also calling it Bol Bachchan? Why are Abbas-Mustaan making their biggest production with Abhishek? So there are many questions here that have no proper answers unless one assumes that despite his patchy or even poor box office record he is a certain threshold star. Either that or one has to reduce oneself to the absurdity of believing it’s all happening because of his last name (but in which case one has to explain why he didn’t attract the same folks before Yuva).
Leaving this aside this sort of analysis explains results that come about. If Abhishek has two 80 crore grossers tomorrow everyone might accept him as a top star but my interest in these things is never limited to such ‘brute facts’. And it’s not just about Abhishek either. I am interested in cinema as a cultural matter. The box office tells me things. Just a fact without any context doesn’t mean anything.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:46 PM
“Just a fact without any context doesn’t mean anything.”
The context is subject to personal bias. Figures aren’t! One can debate context, one has to bow before facts based on empirical evidence.
I am obviously not an industry insider to provide answers to all your questions. People who still sign Abhishek may have strong reasons to do so. But even here, who’d dare to sign him in a “solo” big budget extravaganza after seeing KHJJS’ fate? The Rohit Shetty starrer isn’t a solo effort. Bazmee always makes multistarrers. Ditto A-M!
Who in his right mind would invest in an Abhishek solo, also a big budget venture, at this point of time? I’m not trying to hold out any great hopes for him in the future precisely because his record has been so patchy in the last 10 years.
He’s talented and he can deliver good to great performances. But this does not correlate with the Box Office I’m afraid. And unless the BO demon is slayed, he’s not going to get his due. That’s my point — he’s not taken seriously, online, among audiences in general, because he’s not a bonafide star who can shut the critics up with one BO success after another.
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December 8, 2010 at 3:00 PM
Italian Job though is a big film unless the producer is looking for the ‘safety’ of Bobby Deol and Neil Nitin Mukesh. Again I am not disagreeing with your larger point here. On Bazmee yes Nana Patekar and Dutt are in the film but given their own frankly non-existent box office stories at this point (with the exception of Munnabhai for Dutt and the recent Rajneeti for Patekar where he was hardly the driver of the box office) it is hardly likely that a distributor who had no faith in Abhishek in genre would suddenly feel that the other two were insurance enough. Much as Paresh Rawal and Suniel Shetty wouldn’t exactly sell the earlier Hera Pheri if Akshay wasn’t enough! Is it sufficient to just term something a multistarrer? Doesn’t one also have to look at contexts once again? Otherwise ’empirically’ Deewar and Trishul are also multistarrers! Even stars who are not much at the box office can add to the appeal of an overall project ‘if and only if’ the main lead is enough of a draw! You don’t launch multistarrers expecting the supporting cast to pick up weight where the lead star cannot!
One cannot bow to facts without knowing what they mean. William the Conqueror invaded England in 1066. If one knew nothing else about the historical contexts here what would just the empirical evidence mean? Similarly without knowing what Abhishek’s decisions would have meant in other contexts, without understanding what grosses mean in different situations one couldn’t really get to the heart of the situation. Clearly the industry is not made up of nuts who want to lose money. Why was Abhishek getting all these opportunities? Why is he still getting them? Isn’t it precisely because the ‘trade’ really knows everything I’ve been suggesting here. Abhishek’s decisions don’t please them, they might be very wary of his choices but they obviously know that Raavan or D6 do not define his box office potential. There is nothing else that explains this gap. I’m sure the market is jittery on Abhishek right now, maybe more. When you have big failures even your more commercial ventures fall under a cloud.
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December 8, 2010 at 2:38 PM
Dabangg TV ratings
http://www.indiantelevision.com/mam/headlines/y2k10/dec/decmam29.php
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December 8, 2010 at 3:05 PM
Of the 9.2 rating, 4.6 was for Munni and 4.6 for Dabangg.
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December 8, 2010 at 3:12 PM
Ha!
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December 8, 2010 at 3:11 PM
great going!
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December 8, 2010 at 3:19 PM
Yes, Abhishek’s a bigger presence than Dutt in Bazmee’s HP.
Both Bobby Deol and NNM are even lesser factors in BO terms.
But I’m thinking both Bazmee and the duo of A-M must be wetting their pants right now seeing the BO outcome of KHJJS. If I had been in their position, I certainly would!
Beyond that, I’m not ready to comment on anything. I’ll strictly wait and watch. And keep my hopes to a bare minimum.
I’m not exactly happy to lay it on Abhishek here. But I do feel he needs to feel the heat, if he’s not feeling it already!
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December 8, 2010 at 3:27 PM
Agree, he needs to feel the heat and am sure he is feeling it.
Unfortunately, he cannot turn to his father for advice as he has equally poor judgement in this things.
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December 9, 2010 at 8:52 AM
Why are these blockbusters such big disasters?
Bollywood has some explaining to do.
Despite big banners, big stars and even bigger budgets, some of the recent Bollywood releases like Action Replayy, Guzaarish and Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey have all bombed at the box office.
“Since the first week of November, which sees brisk business due to the festive season, Bollywood has lost almost Rs 80 crore with Action Replayy. Guzaarish and Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey’s no show,” says trade analyst Taran Adarsh.
“We have had 15 releases in the last one month. Except for Golmaal-3 none of the movies have been able to recover their money,” he adds.
Which begs the question: Is Bollywood churning out bad films?
“Yes, it’s true. The content of the films are to be blamed. There is no other reason why films are not working at the box office. If the content is good, the film will be appreciated by the audience,” says Vinod Mirani, another trade pundit.
Trade analyst Komal Natha agrees. “Producers do not have any excuses to give this year. The slump cannot be blamed on cricket or examinations.”
But how does one explain the success of Golmaal-3, whose content is nothing but a series of gags? Are the viewers interested only in comedy films and not serious or realistic ones?
Komal Natha disagrees. “If that was the case then Peepli Live or the recent film Phas Gaya Re Obama [ Images ] wouldn’t have worked, and Action Replayy which is also a comedy should have clicked with the audience.”
According to Taran Adarsh, the real problem lies in the cost of the film. “Films today are going over budget. A film like Guzaarish costs Rs 60 crore. The film was able to get back only Rs 25 crore by selling the satellite and music rights but it was tough to recover the rest,” he says.
“Apart from actors, directors have also started charging exorbitant fees which obviously makes all the finances go for a toss,” Taran Adarsh adds. “There are too many choices available but honestly, none have been enticing enough to make audiences rush to the theaters to book tickets in advance. The fate of last weekend’s releases is known by one and all with only Phas Gaya Re Obama getting good reviews.”
Asked if the steep ticket prices are a deterrent, Aman Gill, who heads the films division at Endamol, says that though the pricing may play a role, it is bad content and bad budget to blame for the films’ box office failure. Plus, there are too many releases crammed towards the end of the year.
Click Here!
“A common man in India [ Images ] hardly watches 10-12 films in a year. Here we are talking of 15 films in one month,” he says adding, “small budget films do need to shout a lot more to get noticed, and though Phas Gaya Re Obama got good reviews, it couldn’t make an impact at the box office. Maybe with a little more marketing it could have been a bigger hit.”
With just three big releases — No Problem, Tees Maar Khan and Toonpur Ka Superhero [ Images ] — slated for the three remaining weeks of the year, it’s doubtful if the situation will change much.
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December 9, 2010 at 8:57 AM
“A common man in India [ Images ] hardly watches 10-12 films in a year. Here we are talking of 15 films in one month,”
Yes, this is my understanding too. More than certain films not working, it’s the fixed budget of family households that might play a role here. If an average family spends 500 bucks per film, that’s 6000 Rs per year! That’s certainly not free change. In such a scenario, one has to be careful about the choices one makes…
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December 9, 2010 at 8:56 AM
Phas Gaye Re Obama Holding Up On Weekdays
Thursday 9th December 2010 15.00 IST
Boxofficeindia.Com Trade Network
Phas Gaye Re Obama is holding up at the box office with steady weekday collections. The film collected around 1.25 crore nett over the weekend and will collect around 90 lakhs nett on its weekdays.
The film will collect in the region of 20-25 lakhs nett on each day for the Mon-Thurs period which is similar to its Friday collection. It must be noted that though collections are steady they are at a very low level and with two major release this week it will be tough for the film to get much screen spacein its second week.
Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey is a total washout as collections were only 50 lakhs on Monday and then dropped further on the weekdays. The film is looking to have a 4.75 crore nett week one total.
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December 9, 2010 at 8:59 AM
KHJJS might wrap under 6 crores! This is worse than Drona and UJ. In fact, adjusted for inflation, I think Naach probably did better than this one..
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December 9, 2010 at 9:12 AM
It’s worse than UJ in absolute terms and worse than Naach after adjusting the latter for inflation. Drona did double the gross of UJ.
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December 9, 2010 at 9:28 AM
speechless.. as i continue to fail to find words to describe this
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