The Agneepath Dossier




[I am collecting all my older thoughts on Agneepath here. These were often parts of longer notes or posts, sometimes on this blog, sometimes on Bachchan’s. Hopefully the contexts are clear in each case though in a few instances I’ve let the comments run longer to make them more comprehensible. I’ve also collected these notes into ‘sets’ for greater thematic continuity.]

I

1) Perhaps this is the best way to approach the film. In rewriting deewar it converts the latter into opera! But it is a problematic moment in the film. And again the Deewar reference is obvious. The hero who must go through such a test of fire to become properly ‘mythic’.

2) Deewar is re-imagined in Agneepath. In a crucial scene Vijay suggests that the ‘writing’ on one’s forehead defines ultimate victory in life. A destiny shaped by an invisible inscription.

3) Agneepath is one of the most iconic Bachchan moments at this point but I think this film too is somewhat dry and doesn’t really have the ‘passions’ of masala. Of course Bachchan here is such a force of nature that he goes beyond mere terms like ‘performance’ and ‘screen presence’. ‘Explosive’ seems to be a term of restraint for what he is here. Having said that there is a ‘risk’ to this performance and I am unsure whether the pay-off is always there. I always like to say though that in some ways this is Bachchan’s most searing character after Lawaaris or rather this is what Heera from the latter film would have become had he not been reconciled with his father at the end!

4) Even by those standards the degree of ‘abjection’ Lawaaris sometimes represents is astonishing. As is of course your searing portrayal. Heera is easily your most bruised character. He looks forward to Agneepath’s Vijay but the latter though itself an important portrayal seems something other than human. But as always I see this as a logical progression. So if Heera had not been accepted by his father at the end he would have become the Agneepath protagonist! Returning to my ‘theme’ once again it is no wonder that your bourgeois audiences often cringed even as they could not resist your films. You were constantly offering a set of polemics against their interests!

5) This was one of the great aspects of Salim-Javed’s scripts inasmuch as these were catalysts for the angry young man’s evolution — that all the films involved that sort of tweaking and of course Bachchan had the gifts to understand this. Deewar’s Bachchan isn’t really like Zanjeer’s while Trishul’s isn’t really like Deewar’s and Kaala pathar’s isn’t really like Trishul’s. So on and so forth. A genealogy here for sure but it’s not the same guy in every film. Abhishek does a pre-Agneepath and post-Agneepath ‘brooding’ deal with his characters. So BM and Sarkar are pre-Agneepath, Yuva and SR are post-Agneepath. The distinction is that in Agneepath Bachchan for the very first time in his angry young man (or not so young when this film was made!) career eschews the ‘rational’. This is something I’ve talked about earlier but the angry young man for all his violence is essentially a ‘rational’ being which is to say that he is always in control of his violence. Whenever he gets close to the ‘irrational’ he either has to die or the script has to take a dramatic turn to in a sense reabsorb him into the ‘normal’ social fold. So in Deewar there is that ‘wild’ moment at the end when he throws Madan Puri out of the window. At that moment he is at the point of no return, if he lives long enough after this perhaps Agneepath is the logical end. But the script skilfully accounts for this ‘excess’ and even while presenting it with one hand takes it back with the other. So at this ‘climactic’ moment the ring of the ‘legal forces’ is really closing in around him. He has to die! In Trishul by making the angry young man’s father the ‘enemy’ a radical move is performed but on the other hand the means to tame this revolution are also left embedded in the narrative. Again the lead character trying to irrationally destroy his father and the father’s family and so on. But at a precise moment one sees his vulnerable side when he slaps Prem Chopra (cannot stand his father being abused by another). So the ‘family’ structure always intervenes. In Deewar he can never enter a temple except when he does so for his mother. In other words it is always the parent (specially the mother) who can always override every revolutionary dynamic. And it is comprehensible to the audience because compromising for a parent seems natural. And yet this domesticates the revolution! Again the larger point is that these scripts have features that allow for a moment of irrationality, hint at it, even play along with it for a while but take it back eventually. Deewar is still open ended in many ways which is why it is the strongest script of this series (Trishul and Kaala Pathar have endings that are narratively justified but problematic in terms of the logic of the original premise in each case). But moving on, Agneepath is the film where despite a relatively weak plot (or one that is content to be an ‘essay’ on Deewar, hence simply shadowing the older film in a different key) Vijay actually does commerce with the ‘irrational’. And this is precisely the hint that Rathnam, shrewd as ever, picks up for Yuva. This is also the mode Abhishek works in with SR, a performance that is much misunderstood but that is entirely ‘logical’. Because the darkness of the Sarkar universe converts the rational being of the earlier film into the much more impenetrable one of SR (a hint that is also available in the closing moments of the earlier film) and which was first developed in Yuva. BM though has a much more reassuring ‘brooding’ figure. But Rohan (who is a fan of Akayla’s Bachchan) injects some of the world weariness of that character into BM and again in a performance that is much underrated Abhishek suggests that ‘mood’ somewhat improbably for that stage of his career (a very young guy as opposed to his father at time of Akayla when he had entered his twilight phase quite definably). So yes it will be interesting to see what configuration Rohan comes up for him here and equally it will be fascinating to discover Rathnam’s own move in Raavana. Lastly, I should add I don’t really hold up this entire critique as a negative for the Salim-Javed films. Those were extraordinary given their contexts, so extraordinary that even with the ‘adjustments’ I’ve been referring to Yuva or what have you are not moreso in this contemporary age. But Salim-Javed’s films were ultimately exercises in romanticism and perhaps revealed the limits of following such a schema. The post-Agneepath manifestations on the other hand are truer to the logic of the character but also run the risk of losing audience investment completely. This is what happened with Agneepath. Vijay was simply too ‘terrible’ a character and could not be loved. Today this film has been reinvented simply as a series of grand gestures decoupled from the emotional content of the narrative. But when it’s Rathnam in Yuva it is precisely the same risk. Lallan is a grand achievement but he too cannot be loved or even liked necessarily. Because the ‘erasure’ of the human which is required to remain true to this logic is also what is most problematic for any sort of commercial film.

6) Note how Agneepath attempted to ‘de-mythicize’ Deewar by ‘updating’ it.. in a sense Agneepath does take Deewar to a certain ‘extreme’ and this gesture must be taken seriously (this is the bridge to Yuva.. Rathnam likes bridges anyway..) but the romantic myth of the earlier film is translated into a Western gangster-inflected gesturality.. enormously potent on its own but with this crucial difference.. the potency is all Amitabh Bachchan’s not necessarily Vijay’s.. it all looks similar, the story is grafted onto the old and so on but it isn’t.. people didn’t like the fact that you changed your voice.. but didn’t this gesture offer a certain truth that was perhaps more unsettling than any literal discomfort felt by the change? That there was a gap between Deewar and Agneepath… insurmountable.. the ‘voice’ which again is so intrinsically a part of your history (as I say on so many other subjects someday there will have to be a proper study of just your voice and how it has functioned in your cinema..) perfectly illustrated this gap.. Vijay in Agneepath was roaming around in a world where all the gods had vanished.. his frustration was understandable.. he was left all alone among mere humans.. the world had changed.. no one realized it.. and in any case Amitabh Bachchan could not have been the bridge to this more secularized order.. there had to be someone else..

7) The most important ‘Vijay’ works in Hindi cinema since I believe Lawaaris are Agneepath, Khakee and Rathnam’s films with Abhishek.

II

1) It is the normalization of the angry young man’s revolution that unhinges him and makes him reappear in rather terrifying form in Agneepath. And it is this hint which Rathnam picks up in Yuva and presumably now in the upcoming Raavana. The last represents an extraordinary wager. The deconstructed mythic married to a stylized realism. This could add a remarkable chapter to the story begun with Awara if indeed Rathnam is upto the task. The angry young man’s cinema is ironically enough the compromise deal offered on Awara. Rathnam retread this space in the more uncompromising Yuva and the rather more compromising Guru. One hopes the Yuva space is opened up even more subversively in Raavana..

2) Abhishek is (and to get a bit theoretical here) the clearest example of the ‘monstrous real’ in contemporary Bollywood and when one thinks about central actors perhaps the only one. Because Abhishek is indeed the ‘monster’ in contemporary Bollywood. But not ‘ugly’ at a literal level. Actually his very (Bachchanesque) and ‘imposing’ persona is precisely not ‘ugly’ because it is otherwise ‘attractive’. The ‘ugliness’ is a function of something else. And this is the ‘authenticity’ he conveys in the midst of the greatest ‘plasticity’. In other words what he represents is ‘monstrous’ within a Bollywood that in just about every way is a ‘fake’ production of superficial movies, superficial actors, superficial audiences. He cannot be assimilated or consumed. His very presence disturbs, causes a bit of a tremor each time. Even those who like him are often a bit uncertain as to how to engage with him. This is why incidentally even proper Bachchan fans sometimes have an ambivalence towards him. Because in an interesting way he even reveals the ‘real’ of the Bachchan signature before the latter was normalized into the ‘one man industry’ consumer God and certainly since the metamorphosis of the same into the transcendental consumption item of the new India. It is not that Abhishek is not like his father. He is too much like his father. Except that Bollywood and Bollywood audiences have spent the better part of two decades repressing the Kaala Pathar character (this is precisely what ‘Bollywood’ means!). He needs to be shut up in the coal mines! Most bourgeois audiences reacted rather badly to Lawaaris, the only such ’searing’ character post-Kaala Pathar. But here the ‘drag’ moment allowed these very audiences to sublimate their annoyance — that the more cosmetically appropriate Bachchan had dared to return to his roots was not ‘wished’ for, however that he dressed up as a woman was worse and this is what ‘apparently’ caused offense. Later still there was of course Agneepath where again Bachchan is at his most ‘monstrous’. A Deewar re-written with Vijay as Frankenstein. This is what the ’system’ produced. Or this hellish character is what the dominant social apparatus made of Vijay’s romantic rebellion (Lallan then follows in this line of Bachchan ‘monsters’). Abhishek keeps returning the audience to this site of ‘repression’.

3) Mutant is a very find word for Bachchan here (referring to GF’s characterization). Because he was a ‘mutant’ for a reason. This is the hint Rathnam picks up in Yuva where Lallan is as ‘rational’ and reasonable a possibility of that universe as Michael or Arjun. In fact Rathnam was too devoted to the tripartite structure. Zizek would have argued that Lallan is precisely the truth of that structure or someone who’s perfectly ‘connected’ to Arjun. The violence of the former is all too obvious. But the inherent structural violence that makes the lifestyle of someone like Arjun possible is always masked in what we then call ‘society’. This violence then finds a counterpart in the more obvious eruptions we see around us of which Lallan is one deep symptom. The new India of the 90s converts Vijay into Lallan and Agneepath is prophetic in this regard. At the same time both moves also share a common weakness in the sense that both are also admissions of defeat. To be Vijay in Agneepath or Lallan is to never be a true revolutionary like Deewar. Perhaps revolution is not even possible in this sort of late capitalism. Might as well join the ‘system’ if you can’t beat it. Hence Guru! But Rathnam can do better. So we will now get the ultimate villain and outsider of the canonized tradition in Raavan and it will be fascinating to see what Rathnam does with the Vijay inheritance here.

4) In an odd sense the performance that Abhishek’s [Raavan] resembles most in some ways is Bachchan’s Agneepath (not because they’re the same ‘kind’). The latter film too took its time finding it’s audience. For a contemporary younger male audience especially this film and role are like Deewar (don’t think there’s any comparison between the films), touchstone moments. At the time many film simply found Bachchan hard to take in that film. True, he didn’t get such reviews but in India no one gives such reviews to an actor who’s been at it for a long time let alone a legend like Bachchan. The voice change of course attracted great negativity (today it’s hard to separate the performance from the voice). Again more in the media and bourgeois audiences. I am unpersuaded it was the same for everyone. In any case this performance could be judged over the top as it was by some. But surely that is the ‘point’ of the performance. It doesn’t necessarily make my list of favorite Bachchan performances but it is a very unique one in his oeuvre. A performance of ‘risk’.. and important precisely because it risks so much. Abhishek’s Raavan falls in that category. There are just very slight hints of this Agneepath ghost in certain portions in the second half of the film, in some of the more restrained moments where Abhishek nonetheless uses a somewhat hoarse voice.

There is another link too. For all the Deewar structure Agneepath’s Vijay is very different from that of the older film’s. Because in Agneepath the entire family history and trauma and tragedy do not quite seem to account for this (also slightly unhinged) character. Which is why I’ve located this role in a Lawaaris genealogy in the past. Vijay is what Heera would have become if his father had not embraced him at the end of that film. A very bruised character become hellish.

III

1) I was revisiting Agneepath the other day. A film which is already a kind of remake or sequel of Deewar (ironic that Agneepath itself is now being remade!). I prefer Deewar infinitely to it but I must admit that this newer film was a remarkable experiment and one that is still rewarding each time I revisit it. First off all one just marvels at Mukul Anand’s visual grammar and expertise. I do not believe he has necessarily been surpassed in some of his ‘representation’ here. I suspect he ‘learned’ from Rathnam’s Nayakan a great deal though he was of course impressive in Insaaf as well earlier one (a film which released around the same time as the Rathnam work). In any case I don’t believe that RGV, who is otherwise so impressive at very many levels, has surpassed Mukul Anand in this sense. Agneepath is really the summa of Anand’s technical vision and one can offer here as example that great claustrophobic moment when Vijay gets into the basti to free his sister. The shots constructed, the frenzy suggested with all the crowds, the fight in the mud, the falling rain and the light being refracted through it, on and on.. I only bring up RGV incidentally because his concerns have often been similar in this sense. But nothing in Satya or Company impresses me as much as some of these very stylized moments in Agneepath. and I say this as a fan of those RGV films. In any case this is but one moment. There is at the opposite end that brightly lit Mauritius entry of yours where even by the standards of your iconic and incredible screen presence this moment is not easily surpassed. Again Anand’s cues are perfect, not least in terms of matching the video to the song (that global hit Yeke Yeke..). It’s a film that takes risks much as your performance does the same. But both are more admired than loved, the strengths and weaknesses of both are perhaps one and the same. The film is a kind of operatic coda to Deewar, updated for a newer age but also very insightful in terms of bringing the ‘angry young man’ phase to a certain ‘end’. Agneepath is a sort of ‘essay’ on Deewar. A film which almost cannot be seen without having the older film constantly in mind as well. One thinks of that great roti scene you have here with Rohini Hattangadi and one can then connect it with Deewar’s own roti moment. Just between these two scenes from the two films an entire world of discourse can be constructed. Your voice was of course controversial at the time but it was the right decision. It has the effect of distancing the viewer from Vijay. One cannot really invest in Vijay, he is a bit too ‘terrible’ to be absorbed, but what ‘disabled’ the film and your performance in a box office sense is precisely that which renders both authentic. Today sadly a young male generation lionizes Agneepath and sees it really as the perfect expression of a certain macho gesturality. The weakest of misreadings.

2) Agneepath is a kind of update on Deewar.. this is a film you should see if you haven’t.. even by Bachchan’s lofty standards he is extraordinarily grand is this rather operatic film. Here’s one of my favorite moments from the film (also in all of Bachchan’s oeuvre):

watch at the 2.35 min mark and then roughly through the 5:30 point…

The moment where he is standing on the boat, he is literally a god!

3) Getting back to the idea of an Agneepath remake though I should say that the mere thought does not sound very preposterous to me. For one I have never considered Agneepath a perfect film. It was somewhat dry and never really struck one’s emotional chords the way many of your great scripts from the past did. The late Mukul Anand had many strengths as a film-maker, unfortunately ’script’ wasn’t one of them. The ambition to ‘update’ Deewar was always more than a little misplaced. The ‘historic’ work or the ‘event’ cannot simply be replicated. At the same time there were many aspects of the work that were politically prophetic in some ways.

The greatest problem of an Agneepath remake does not consist in the narrative itself (which as I suggested could be bettered as could indeed the soundtrack!) but the fact that it is so completely dominated by an Amitabh Bachchan who is simply awe-inspiring in the potency of his signature here. In other words the gesturality on display here is of such a magnitude that it is very hard to conceive of any actor who could take up this challenge successfully. I have to add here that I am not a complete fan of your performance in the film. This might sound paradoxical given what I’ve just said about but I think that this performance ‘risks’ a great deal and I am unsure whether there is always a payoff at the end. It is the very point of this performance to be ‘overblown’. You handle is remarkably well and yet it nonetheless gets to be too much at points. Wherever one stands on this (and I am probably in the minority with this view) it is certainly true that the film today enjoys a prestige that it did not when it initially released. It is now a central part of your canon, more crucial for many audience segments than for example Trishul (I consider this an entirely regrettable development). The lead star in Agneepath displays a transcendence over the text of the film that I think I cannot spot in another film from any tradition I am aware of. But it is also this transcendence that perhaps sinks the work. At the very least the script cannot lift the weight of this signature. Agneepath is a moment of splendor for you but there is also something terrible about this splendor. I invoke here an ancient Greek sense of the marvelous (deinon) which suggests an overwhelming kind of splendor and this is ipso facto a bit terrifying. Who then would want to step into your shoes with this film?

IV

1) Let’s talk about your justly famous ‘walk’. One of the most distinctive ones in the history of the medium and certainly one I am partial to more than any other with the possible exception of Eastwood in some of his Westerns. I am going to isolate two supreme moments of this history. Firstly (though not for the first time) that great scene in the second half of Don when you walk across the bridge where Iftikhar is already waiting for you under the bridge, unbeknownst to the gangsters (this is incidentally a superbly constructed scene even in another sense.. both you and the DCP do not see each other, the voices communicate while the gaze in each instance is directed elsewhere..). This is the greatest such example of your ‘gait’ in your 70s work.

Let’s now introduce its perfect counterexample from Coolie. Your mesmerising introductory scene when you are on top of the train and walk across it, master of all that you purvey. This is the ’summa’ moment of your 80s ‘walk’.

There are however precise distinctions between the two sequences. The Don walk is a distracted, ‘spontaneous’ one. It is about an easy-going style and abandon. It is about a star who is still exploring his signature or developing it in profound ways and enjoying himself thoroughly doing so.

On the other hand the Coolie walk is all about the absolute dominance of your ‘one man industry’ phase. Here on display is the plenitude of your signature in the most total sense. In this sense the falcon is a nice touch because it only enhances this sense of supremacy and plenitude. The star here is no longer in flux as with Don. He is ‘lord and master’ and his walk reflects the confidence of this ‘truth’. Though 1978, the year in which Don arrived, was your greatest single year, you were nonetheless still in a process of discovery. By the time Coolie comes about you are ‘there’ and many films later when you have both exhausted the ‘angry young man’ as well as the Anthony alternative you can only concentrate heavily on the potency of your signature. But in each case you are still completely authentic.

A supplement here. Agneepath, in addition to everything else, also represents the fracturing of the romantic Deewar universe where that walk first came about in a serious way. And this is reflected in how you handle your body in the film. An element of dissonance is introduced, the fluid choreography of your trademark walk seems ‘re-inflected’ to now register an ‘un-hinging’. Also otherwise your shiftiness when you are seated, this marvelously comes through in your introductory moment. Your character is rather uneasy and ‘out of joint’ throughout the film and this is obvious even in his physical comportment. And yet there is enough of the old magic still there. When you get shot early on the way your body recoils and eventually falls, all this is remarkable to behold (to find the ‘repetition’ here one must visit or revisit Abhishek’s death sequence in Sarkar Raj where the character too owes something to Agneepath’s Vijay as do his parts in Yuva and Raavan.. Abhishek is slower, even ‘obtuse’ about bodily injury here but it’s very well done because it is ‘in’ character). Agneepath is as brilliantly done in this physical sense as the earlier Don and Coolie.

V

1) Akayla is a work which is often not ambitious enough when it needs to be and makes a vice out of its modesty. One could be critical about certain aspects of a film which had essentially the right script in place but one which was handled in a very functional way by of all people Ramesh Sippy. Nonetheless there is much that is ‘right’ here. The moodiness and melancholy that always hangs over this film principally through your perfectly pitched portrayal. In fact if I think about all the films that you did between Shahenshah and Khuda Gawah (when you then left for five years) there is perhaps no more affecting performance in this period. Agneepath is rightly the more challenging performance to ‘interpret’ even as it is also one of great risk (there is no other work of yours I can think of where you are always so much in danger of exceeding a certain ‘measure’ even if it all seems attuned to this quasi-operatic work) but Akayla might not be ‘lesser’. In a certain sense it offers a striking contrast with Agneepath. The latter a grand performance pitched consistently a scale or two higher, the former is much more restrained, much more in sync with the twilight feel of the film. But both performances are about the ‘end’ of a history, an era. One might term this your ‘peak period’. If Agneepath doubles the bet and unleashes Vijay with a much more ‘monstrous’ intensity, Akayla is akin to a fadeout. Your performance here is perfectly keyed into everything I’m suggesting here. You are tired at that point and Vijay here exhibits that weariness. If Agneepath’s Vijay descends from the deep lacerated Heera of Lawaaris universe Akayla’s character owes something to the late romantic commentary and ironies of the Sharaabi protagonist. But Mukul Anand still frames a world where Vijay’s resistance is literally possible and where his gestures still animate the sign system of that universe. Akayla though operates with the sadder realization that it isn’t anymore as it once was. And therefore Vijay here is also suffused with that melancholic truth. He is some sort of survivor in a world where the myth of Vijay has perhaps receded.

All of this you bring through in your portrayal. It perhaps required you to have taken a few hard knocks yourself. Just those notes couldn’t have been struck years earlier. It is not easy to represent ‘defeat’ if one has never known it in any true sense in life. Sippy does not allow this character any grandeur but even as you respect the economy needed here the character is for all this deeply individualized and as I said earlier remarkably affecting. I rue the fact that this prortrayal did not get a greater film from Sippy. It might have been one of your singular ones. Even physically I would say that other than Agneepath I do not like you more in any film of this entire period (barring the grand look of Khuda Gawah.. i.e. the younger look here). But it is a film to revisit. It doesn’t get as much attention as it should but I would certain pick this Vijay to Agneepath’s.

VI

1) And the ultimately greatness of a work really rests in the number of times it can be fruitfully opened up to newer questions without the possibilities of the work being exhausted. So for example Shakespeare is endlessly re-interpreted in every age. So this undecidability works in more ways than one. But let me end here with another example, that of Agneepath, something I’ve discussed at length in the past. I’ve often thought of this as a performance of ‘risk’ in the sense that I am unsure if you perhaps do not go too far in terms of a certain gesturality. On the other hand this is quasi-operatic work where your gestures seem entirely appropriate to that world. These aren’t necessarily contradictory propositions. It depends on one’s perspective. But the undecidability is there in the performance because it lends itself to opposing interpretations and you cannot definitively ‘choose’ one way or the other. This is why your work in Agneepath is ultimately great even if one decides to opt for the less flattering interpretation.

2) Notice how the thought of the ‘Agneepath’ is somewhat opposed to that of the ‘Madhushala’. The bridge between the fiery struggle of the former and clam repose of the latter is the poem that you recited in Kasme Vaade and also quite often in other contexts (jeevan ki aapa dhaapi main..). Here there is a question that is laid out before us which I would rephrase in this way: can one get from Agneepath to Madhushala? It is not an easy question to respond to. Using the metaphors of mysticism (from which Madhushala draws a great deal) one could certainly reconcile the idea of ’struggle/striving’ with that of ultimate inner peace. However Agneepath is really soaked in the blood and sweat of revolutionary rhetoric. One can perhaps turn to the climactic battle of the Mahabharata and here discover how these contradictory strands might (or might not) be united. Krishna’s counsel is very philosophical and reflective in very many ways, on the other hand all of this is meant to prevent a certain ’stasis’ on Arjun’s part and push him towards the battle-field and war. But this battle-field is also one where, and in Nietzschean terms, a ‘re-valuation of values’ takes place. In a sense then it is only Krishna’s cosmic philosophy that could survive the ‘re-ordering of the world’ that will take place once the battle is over. To put it differently there might yet be that Agneepath which ends at the Madhushala! Because the time of the two works (and orders) is very different. Actually Krishna does not really have an answer to Arjun. What he does is take things to a higher level. His message is ‘fight the war here and then let those cosmic cycles take care of the rest’! The ethical apparatus of the Bhagavad Gita is immense but it is not necessarily the answer Arjun is seeking. Because a certain switch is performed here. To use a philosophical register the ontic is translated into the ontological. Things ‘in’ this world become the thing ‘of’ the world. But these are not the terms or the ‘evasion’ of the two poems I started out with. Agneepath and Madhushala are linked across the same axis of time. The latter is allegorical but of course such a mode depends on keeping the time of the present intact. Whereas Krishna’s response consists in ignoring the present — ‘act now in this fashion and there will be balance in the cosmic order’! The poet’s wager in those two ‘opposed’ poems is in this sense a braver one. Because each work is authentic and true on its own the two cannot be fused into a single vision. Nor should it be so. Why then do I bring this up? Because I wonder if we often do not lay too much of a premium on inner peace and so on. The ecstatic mode of the mystic is not necessarily more potent than the ‘passage a l’acte’ of the revolutionary. They often even share the same language! Even within yourself there is something of this ‘balance’ if you will — the search for inner calm but also the frenetic activity on all other fronts. I am in any case never sure if the Madhushala is really preferable to the Agneepath as a choice or as an ‘ethic’ of life. It seems to me that the Madhushala is perhaps what one thinks about after one has walked on the Agneepath and emerged triumphant. Perhaps the Mashushala is even something of a retirement plan on the terms of the ‘path of fire’. Certainly this view finds biographical evidence in your life. If one opposes your great work from the past to your current ’stance’ in every sense it certainly isn’t a stretch to suggest that the Agneepath the angry young man walked on has led over time to the Madhushala of this blog…

3) Two of the country’s most astonishing and well known icons therefore juxtaposed. There is an uncanny quality to the picture. So many histories unfold if one thinks about it. Wasn’t ‘Vijay’ someone who was also rebelling against Gandhi’s order? At least against a certain version of Gandhi who all too often could explain injustice in the present using ‘cosmic’ categories. This was not the Gandhi who refused to accept the rules in South Africa. And then there is Anthony, Manmohan Desai’s favorite child. But Desai was Nehruvian not Gandhian and India too has been the former, not the latter. Thankfully so, I would say. But Gandhi was someone who could often ‘wait’ too much, who could find metaphysical meaning in the suffering of the present. And Vijay precisely could never wait. there was never time enough. And where do you (Amitabh Bachchan) fit in? There is a concentration you portray in that image, even a certain determination. How are these histories united? Gandhi-Vijay-Amitabh Bachchan? Gandhian India still exists. It is still the ‘majority’. ‘Amitabh Bachchan’ represents post-Independence India’s biggest brandname. But what of Vijay? What of this crucial link? What about all his anger and all his rebellion? Where is Vijay today? Isn’t the sadness of contemporary India precisely this? That there is no space for Vijay? All those gestures normalized by the consumption economies of the present? Or almost. No victory is total. The specter keeps returning. We saw it recently with Raavan. at any rate there is a rebel Gandhi and a saint Gandhi. The gap is the one between a political leader who could not wait and an icon who could always find virtue in passivity. But it is also the price Gandhi needed to pay to be canonized. He had to check in rebellion at the door. Vijay couldn’t have dreamed of this. His last stand was that final moment in Agneepath with the verse of your father resonating in his mind and on his tongue. That verse also exhibits a certain militancy. It is not a very Gandhian piece of writing.

141 Responses to “The Agneepath Dossier”

  1. And since people are sometimes not sure about where I’m coming from on certain films from time to time let me offer this post as a classic example of the kind of thinking I favor not just on cinema but anything else as well. Where there are always many approaches ‘into’ a work (the number that can be engendered is then in symmetry with the overall richness of the ‘text’..) and depending on contexts the work can be refracted in different ways. And even this often cannot account for the forces of history. As I’ve said before it is impossible for us to imagine the original contexts within which certain films were rejected by their audiences or critics or both. Agneepath in this sense provides a classic example. A hallmark Bachchan film more famous and legendary now than many of his blockbusters. This could not have been foreseen in 1990 when the film release or at least would have required some remarkable foresight.

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  2. Alex adams Says:

    V good piece satyam
    Feel bachchan was simply too awesome, transcendental in ap and everything else including the film itself (&its box office) got overshadowed
    Incidentally liked his ‘modfied’ voice here as well
    Btw which is your fave AP scene folks …starting from satyam..
    May catch the new one 2nite (hopefully) and will be able to compare better

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  3. I will comeback someday and read this piece, Satyam.
    Apparently bigb had changed his voice for this movie; when it didn’t take off (or get accepted), the director/producer quickly had bigb dub the whole movie in his (real) voice.
    I would have loved to watch this movie in its original (voice) of bigb. Maybe KJo should re-release this movie to run it side by side the new one!!

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  4. Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

    Thank God work is slow today, Going to read this piece while having some good Thai food for lunch (too bad cant bring in wine to work..lol). BTW. Still waiting for your Aarakshan piece satyam..anyday now? Also, This is Kash (been reading your posts, just busy with work and all, Married life is a bit..lets just say a full time job..lol)..Sorry to change the name here, Wanted to avoid a few people. (outside of this blog). Happy New Year to all friends and their families here, Nothing but good wishes to all you. especially, Satyam, Alex, Filmigirl, Dimps, GF, Saket, etc , sorry if i missed anyone out, bad at remembering names. Let good cinema prevail this year. saddenned by the outcome of players btw, just too sad. All AB jr fans had their money on it. Oh well, as you said it else where Satyam, Bad Luck man.

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    • Kash, absolutely fantastic to see you here after quite some time!

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    • Alex adams Says:

      Really nice to hear from u kash
      Seems married life is keeping u too busy
      Anyhow good to see u (still) cheerful-oh just joking
      Hope your better half is well and looking after u

      Ps-just realised that some like dimps and filmigirl have been MIA for a while
      God bless their souls. Seems they also got married itis something. Hahaha

      Anyhow, to agneepath now…

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      • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

        Thanks Alex, Yeah married life is a bit busy. On my toes (and nothing else as you might be thinkking..lol) most of the time. As i said its almost like a fulltime job. She is great, Still have to get her to watch all my fav’s of Indian Cinema and introduce her to the best of Bachchans, Just no time from all the Daavat’s. Feel like Dharmendra’s character from Chupke Chupke. LOL.

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    • Congrats on Marraige Kash. Wishing happy marraige and many bigb movies with wifey

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  5. http://diptakirti.blogspot.com/2012/01/dear-karan.html

    “Dear Karan,

    I am told that a production of yours that released today (and getting great reviews & collections) is a remake of the 1990 film, Agneepath. The media and people of this country are making this assumption because the names of the two films are same. But then, you produced a film called Dostana a few years back that had no resemblance to the story of the 1980 film of the same name.

    I haven’t seen the latest Agneepath yet (and I don’t think I will, either). But the reviews – or more importantly in today’s Bollywood – the buzz seems to be quite positive. People, especially of the female persuasion, seem to have loved Hrithik Roshan’s ‘uber hot’ screen presence. The biggest praises are, however, reserved for Sanjay Dutt (playing Kancha Cheena) and Rishi Kapoor (playing Rauf Lala, who seems to be a new character). Nobody seems to have noticed Priyanka Chopra or missed Krishnan Iyer MA yet.

    Which brings me to the question I want to ask you – why the hell are you calling this film a remake? Though to be fair, it is being said that Agneepath is not a ‘remake’ but a ‘tribute’… whatever that means. In that case, I must point out what – at least, what I feel – was the crux of the original Agneepath and what needed to be paid a tribute to.

    When you pay tribute to an ‘angry’ film and the biggest pre-release buzz is about an item song, then one can safely say you’ve failed.

    When the tribute is to a film with some of the most accomplished ‘dialogues’ in Bollywood and not a jot of the post-release chatter is about the lines the hero speaks, then you’ve failed.

    When most people end up discussing Kancha Cheena’s unholy, hairless looks after the film and they don’t remember anything about the hero except the biceps, then you’ve failed spectacularly.
    In paying a tribute, that is. I am sure that the film will succeed in every other way.

    Also on a different level, the real Agneepath was about a producer’s courage.

    Yash Johar took an ageing leading man and an insignificant heroine to lead his film. The leading man was known for his voice but for this film, but it replaced with a rasping, new voice. The hero was said to be nearly 37 years in the old. And the hero died a bloody death at his mother’s feet when all of Bollywood was singing ‘saanson ki zaroorat hain jaise…’ and riding into the sunset.

    You pay a tribute to this risk by taking on Bollywood’s most conventional leading man and the No. 2 heroine. You then take on Bollywood’s No. 1 heroine to dance to one sizzling number, for good measure. And you promote the hell out of the song, using the money you’ve saved from not having to hire a dialogue writer.

    You could’ve made exactly the same film and called it Inteqaam or some such. I think the film would have been just as successful and the old fogeys (we, 35+ year old viewers and the producer of the original) wouldn’t have felt so restless…”

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    • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      Exactly my sentiments for this film. They have completely missed the point to remake this film. same as Don.

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    • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

      The leading man of the old AP attempted to ape Pacino. It did not work. Hence within the first week itself, the movie had to be redubbed. Was the attempt wrong, no, things sometimes just don’t work. Where ever there is risk, there is the possibility of failure. Moreover in the old AP there was not much for women. Unfortunately the disasterous outcome tarnished AP’s producers reputation (Yash Johar’s reputation).

      The genesis of the new AP lies in a son’s desire, Karan Jogar’s desire, to restore his father’s reputation. The new version vastly improved on the old one. In the new one there is more than enough for all genders and taste. While there is violence, there is also emotional Mother/Son tear soaked drama. There brother/sister drama, there is unconditional romance. List one violent scene, and I will list an equal emotional scene. List a few violent scenes and I will list twice the number of emotional scene. Hence remember any anecdotal stories you hear that claim that women are rejecting the new AP are 1) Just an attempt to cripple HR’s AP, and 2) Will be from a source with zero credibility (source always matters).

      Once again the creative forces have made an attempt, fortunately this time the gamble has worked. The new AP unlike the old one is a block buster. Polls show that women have made HR’s AP a super duper hit. The meeting between HR and his sister while he is dropping off her birthday gift has contributed as much as “Chikni Chameli”. Sure there is “Chikni Chameli” too. There is more than enough for everybody.

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      • Why would Yash Johar’s reputation require restoration? His Agneepath may not have done well back then but time has done enough to “restore” the estimation people have for the film and the central character. My opinion is that Johar decided to remake this film because masala action is in vogue and rather than do something imaginative with this current trend he decided to mine what his production house already did, and then wrap this whole “I’m avenging my father’s failure” claptrap around it because it dovetails nicely with the plot of the film! The problem is that in this imagined revenge tale, the villain and the one taking the punishment now seems to be the audience.

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        • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

          GF

          When you are used to success, even small failures trouble you. Agneepath was a big budget movie of its time, it was RGV’s Aag of its time. It was mocked and ridiculed. For a while Tom Uncle went into a shock, became a recluse. The failure of Big B’s Agneepath was a troumatic experience. Hence it HAD to be revisited. Everyone deserves a closure. How can we begrudge that ?

          Anyways, all’s well that ends well. Karan has made his father proud. I think Zarina Wahab’s dialogue about her desire to be HR’s mother in every incarnation expresses Karan Johar’s mother’s sentiments in real life.

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        • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

          Satyam

          Your response seems very unfair. You are trying to poison people’s view on me, rather than address my comment.

          You have a right to ask me to support my statements (which I have and is available even independent of me) .

          You can ask me, “What do you have ?”. Or if you prefer, use the dialogue from Deewar, “Tere Pass Kya Hai?”

          To the above I will respond, “Mere Pass Amitabh Ji Hai” (read Kash’s experience with Amitabh).

          It is not just Karan Johar but also Amitabh who claims that Big B’s Agneepath flopped badly.

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        • Again I have nothing more to add to what I’ve told you on all of this. And it’s not about Agneepath not doing well or any other specific topic. It’s about consistently saying completely absurd stuff and repeatedly doing so on a given day. Everyone has their moment of silliness or whatever. But if one does so consistently and with multiple comments one is simply wasting everyone’s time. The very same person here does not put up 10 comments about SRK in a row saying more or less the very same thing in every comment.

          So don’t make this into some sort of debate. Unfair or not, I’m not particularly concerned. You can say lots of stuff about Bachchan or anyone else. But if it’s nonsensical and if it’s repeated too many times if will go in the dustbin. The same holds for other stars too. The difference is that arguing against Bachchan in any sense is so impossibly hard that people have to say absurd things to make their case from time to time. It doesn’t have to be this way but it is.

          But again unfair or not this is how things stand.

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        • idiot at work again now have to address with same idiotic comments and have not seen him writing anything constructive

          by this logic i guess the death of mukul anand happened due to certain shock his last srk starrer movie called trimurti did to him …
          yash johar suffered more losses in certain srk starrer called duplicate than an agneepath which fetched him national awards and critical acclaim and made mukul anand’s entry into big league

          by the way i know a certain actor who has copied one of his screen name ( known as badshah khan played ironically by big b again in khuda gawah )

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        • GF as you can see if you extend the discussion with Karan you take your chances! Agneepath was essentially a big opener that then fizzled out though it was fantastic in Bombay for a couple of weeks. Discussed this at length the other day:

          [GJS released in Dec ’88. It did about 5 crores. Nahata gave it a B rating (which is higher than that he’s given to many SRK films he’s otherwise called hits in the popular media and this after he’s lowered his criteria for many years now). Agneepath released in Feb of 1990, so just a little more than a year later in an age where multiplex inflation wasn’t a factor (regular inflation was of course). In that year Agneepath did 4.5 crores (don’t know what rating Nahata gave it). Now if GJS was B how much lower could Agneepath have been?! In 1990 Kishen Kanhaiya did 3 crores (a hit that year), Bachchan’s own Aaj Ka Arjun did 5.5 crores (a superhit that year), Ghayal did 6 crores, Dil was way ahead at 9 crores. In the Filmfare year end ratings that year dil was on top and alone in the A11 category or whatever their highest was for this film, Aaj Ka Arjun and Ghayal shared the one just below this.

          Now the very following year Akayla did as much as Agneepath though it didn’t come with the same expectations. In any case the trade gave it the same B/B- rating. Hum of course was the top grosser with close to 10 crores. But the same year Sadak did 4.5 crores, DHKMN did 3. Both were considered hits. Saajan did 7.5, Saudagar did 6 crores. In 1992 Khuda Gawah did 5.5 crores (considered disappointing given the scale of the production.. though it matched AKA it was off a massive initial) while Beta now did close to 10.

          The point I’m trying to make with some of these examples is that relative to expectations Agneepath ought to have done 40-50% more than it did. Furthermore there was no excuse for being behind AKA. But within the overall spectrum of hits in those years Agneepath was still not that bad. Off a big initial yes but the initial still wasn’t like Hum or Khuda Gawah and Agneepath didn’t end up where Ajooba did (2.3 crores) which is what the Johar narrative would have one believe.

          And finally unlike an Ra One it did not have a humongous budget or anything. Obviously a major production but I very much doubt it cost more than GJS or Toofan. It certainly did not cost as much as KG.

          All of this does not take away from the fact that it didn’t work overall. But there are important contexts here. For example Hum got a massive initial but did not have the strongest trending. It was good enough but not fantastic. On the other hand AKA which did not start out that big had great trending. Probably the best Bachchan trender in the entire 1988-92 period and even through the Rath Yatra riots in the North and elsewhere depressed the overall box office.

          The thing is an anti-Bachchan media exaggerated a lot of things in those days. Shahenshah was considered a disappointment and what not. Sure it didn’t create history like Coolie but Nahata again gave it an A1 rating. and as I’ve said before Agneepath was at 100% for two weeks in Bombay. Not every Bachchan film in that period was doing this.]

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        • should add here that the new Agneepath looks to be following the path of the old one if these day 2 numbers are any indication. Actually between the two Dons and now Agneepath I haven’t seen a remake better the result of the Bachchan original.

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        • Satyam, Rajen, GF and others, this karan.kumar is in effect the same person who used to write with the moniker “Shaan Khan.”

          I am assuming his previous comments, which followed a similar agenda, didn’t pass the filter here and so he/she had to assume a new identity.

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        • Don’t know to be honest. Don’t know if Shaan Khan was ever here either. I tend to just track the comments, too hard to keep up with all the IDs. However I have warned Karan about this. One can be partisan all one wants but some stuff is so utterly nonsensical that it cannot be allowed to clog up the forum. Multiple comments saying the very same utterly ridiculous stuff.

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        • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

          How about multiple comments saying the same ridiculous stuff about HR or SRK etc ?

          If it is not one reason it is other, just address issues, don’t keep running.

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        • Satyam, given some length of time AND average recall from memory, it’s not that hard to figure out who’s who! Random people don’t come here to fight/spread agendas…you can be absolutely sure there’s prior history involved.

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        • you’re right about this…

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  6. A fascinating set of thoughts here, will get back to this when I have time.

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  7. Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

    Wow, really great piece here Satyam. Indeed one of your finest. However, regarding Rohan’s liking to Akayla’s Bachchan I agree he did infuence a bit of that character in BM but, if you look at DMD’s Kamath, that character I felt had more of the Vijay from Akayla then in BM. (ofcourse BM had its limitations due to his profession). The end goal for both Vijay and Kamath are similar in fashion and to some extent execution as well. (Here Kamath is given full authority where in Akayla Vijay is restrained to some degree). Not sure when you wrote this pieced, I am sure if it was after DMD you wouldn’t have missed these similarities. Any thoughts?

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    • as I said in the prefatory note this ‘piece’ is essentially a collection from the last few years and all the stuff here comes out of longer comments or posts. I don’t think DMD had released when I wrote that comment. However I do agree with you. There is certainly continuity between BM and DMD in this sense, a certain world-weariness. The sense of being at an ‘end’ of sorts. This worked well in Akayla because Bachchan was in a way at the end of his peak history. so the internal logic of film perfectly matched the non-diegetic contexts of its lead star. But this is also something Rohan intuits and brings to the fore in BM and DMD. That the best Abhishek ‘retreading’ of his father’s signature (which is to say the space opened up by him) involves a sense of ‘twilight’. Not a funereal mood by any means but a way of accessing the world in which the Gods have vanished. I am completely on board with this project, I have often said as much, that Abhishek’s best interventions are about providing a fine coda to the Bachchan archives.

      The other side of this coin is Rathnam’s work with Abhishek where it’s a certain radicalization of the angry young man (this is more true for Yuva and Raavan but Guru in a different sense is about the institutionalization of the Bachchan signature) which occurs. But this road also leads to a certain dead-end as with Agneepath. In other words one perhaps cannot go further and the completion of this logic is always achieved at great cost, not the least of which involves a distancing from the audience.

      Even RGV in a very bizarre way goes about this his own way. So yes SR is on the one hand a strange film because it cancels out the very logic it set up in the first film. In other words you have a Godfather where Vito Corleone survives and Michael dies. But what is so ‘disastrous’ in sheer narratives terms also confirms this idea. Because Abhishek can never be simply about ‘repeating’ the signature in any easy sense. To have then a new Sarkar who is exactly like the old one would be ‘pointless’ in a way.

      There is a way of arguing (and I’ve done it before in other contexts) that not just the above mapping but Abhishek’s whole set of box office woes is not unconnected with the very complicated ‘nature’ of the Bachchan signature in the present. And something which can be gleaned even on the side of the father where the audience has never whole-heartedly accepted him doing either supporting parts or central ones where he does not seem to be true to his signature in some form or fashion. Abhishek though represents the difficulty of re-triggering the signature in authentic ways and yet not being ‘against’ the present totally. from Yuva through Guru there was enough of a balance in this sense. But beyond this he has erred on the side of the former more often than not and we see many of the box office results. It’s not just about individual problems in a film and so on. All that is true but all of that can also be overcome in more audience-friendly genres.

      I’ve always said this including to Bachchan himself (!) — if you’re interested in the ‘site’ that is Amitabh Bachchan you will always be more interested in Abhishek’s career in contemporary times. And the odd film from the father here and there. If however you are simply devoted to the father in a ‘biographical’ sense (understandable of course) then it’s a different story. Connected to this is also the ‘superficial’ devotion to the father which is simply about a certain ‘cosmetic’ investment in the same. This ‘desire’ can easily be satisfied by the father in the present.

      Like

  8. Alex adams Says:

    Just a parting shot–
    Im probably the biggest fan of BachchAns ‘akayla’
    Loved him in the cynical, slightly run down, over the hill, whiskey in the pocket bachchan
    Infact remains one of my favorite bachchan films

    Oops gettin late for agneepath -seems I’m gonna get a combined beating/’rape’ from a full female sports team..!!

    Like

  9. Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

    Now that this post is about Agneepath, I would like to share something that is related to it. Back in 2002, When bachchan’s To Be or Not To Be was released. There was a book signing event here in NY. Due to some high up connections, I was able to fetch a ticket for the event and dinner. After his speech and book release, there was a signing event, where most of the attendee’s stood in line to get the book signed by Bachchan and Jaya. I too am in the line. But, Ofcourse I am not just ANY bachchan fan, I didn’t want to to what everyone was doing. I had to do something different, something where I can be noticed by THE MAN. I had thought of this days in advance and brougth along with me the copy of Agneepath DVD. I get that signed, he obliges my request, looks at me in amusement. I say my fan mantra, big fan etc etc. Then, he shares the DVD bit with Jaya saying something to this affect “Hey, Look there are fans for Agneepath”, then he asks me, I understand you are fan, But why? ” I am tounge tied at this moment and I couldn’t think of anything and just said “I loved your voice in this film sir” He says, “that makes 2 of us” and he laughs like the one you see him laugh at a joke in KBC. I fumble for my next words and a photographer disturbs the laughter and asks us to pose for camera and we do. I would like to say that an Autographed Agneepath DVD is my most prized possession, I do not play that DVD in fear of ruining his Autograph. Sorry if I bored you all with this. Felt like sharing.

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    • Wow, thanks for sharing. That’s a great anecdote!

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    • Wait, did he sign the dvd itself, or the dvd box? In any case, thanks for sharing a very warm anecdote, and I’m sure it made your day! (and many days thereafter, it looks like 🙂 )

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    • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

      So even if you reject Karan’s statement that the old Agneepath failed, you now have it from Amitabh Ji itself. Agneepath (Big B’s Agneepath) failed and also people rejected the voice makeover.

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  10. karankumar@comcast.net Says:

    It appears that I may be the only straight thinking normal guy here, in this jolly old bath house, allow me to communicate a rumor I heard (comming from Bandra Bombay).

    Salman has green lit the remake of Amar, Akbar and Anthony.

    BTW why is Anthony placed last in the title ? Amar was the oldest, so maybe that is why he goes first. But then in that case it should be Amar, Anthony & Akbar.

    Could it be Manmohan Desai listed them based on Star Ranking ? All this was before my time, but I will talk to a few and report back.

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    • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      Only if the star ranking went backwards, cause bachchan was at its peak at the time (This was before my time as well, just the stories I hear from family and friends and blogs such as this). More seriously though, just that it sounds better that way I guess, No other reason I would assume.

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    • gryffindor Says:

      I think title is relative to population. First a Hindu name bcoz they are in higher numbers, so more people could identify with the name. Then the 2nd largest.

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    • Alliteration??
      Doesn’t it sound rhythmic to your ears?

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    • Such ignorance is scary. Assuming it really is that! If it’s just partisanship it ought to be more intelligent!

      On AAA Dhawan was once supposed to make it with the Salman and his brothers.

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      • “On AAA Dhawan was once supposed to make it with the Salman and his brothers.”

        Now THAT is a scary thought. If ever that comes to fruition they ought to title it Amar & These Two Other Guys.

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        • GF, though it’s still early days looks like you might have been on the money on AGneepath. BOI are calling the second day drops “alarming”.

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        • Going to see it in 2 hours. It was actually pretty easy to get tickets but it a 15 feature film. Let’s see how it is.
          Agneepath was a very fond childhood memory…still got a copy on VCR. Really cool film.

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        • Don’t worry. All of Salman’s fans, and even Salman himself, are against the idea. It’s only Sohail who keeps bringing it up every now and then. But Salman said quite categorically some time ago (like two or three years ago) that he doesn’t want to remake this film, and in general he doesn’t see the point of remaking classic films which in any case are available to all on TV.

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        • actually I would mind it less if he remade one of these. The result would be pretty appalling but I wouldn’t be bothered otherwise because of the reason you’ve mentioned. Salman has no ‘political’ angle here. Even if he ever did something like this it would be a pure business proposition. Much as in Hollywood they remake a lot of stuff but there’s no ideological angle attached to it. But with the likes of Johar and SRK the Bachchan element is part of a certain hubristic pattern (in Johar’s case there’s some deconstruction at work too). This was part of a comment I left on Johar the other day:

          “But whether he’s conscious of this or not Johar is essentially someone who defaces the great monuments of the past even as he pretends to admire them because he is enraged at his inability to challenge these with any achievements of his own. He will never make an important work but he will also never make a great classic. All his work but also most of his utterances reflect this anxiety. And hence if he cannot create great monuments of his own he can at least try to produce uglier versions of the same! Defacement is really his game and it is premised on Philistine resentment. I’m being precise here. Not just resentment but that which comes from a Philistine sensibility.”

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        • Dutt’s doing Satte Pe Satta. I don’t particularly care because again Dutt doesn’t have that angle. Of course SPS is hardly a very special film that cannot be remade though Bachchan is characteristically fantastic in the double role here.

          It now occurs to me that if SRK had attempted this as opposed to Don he could truly have had a big one. This offers lots of stuff for his family audience base.

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        • Sohail once proposed remaking SPS with himself and Arbaaz along with Salman. Really all these remake proposals of his seemed to be more a way of getting acting jobs for himself and Arbaaz rather than trying to find suitable projects for Salman. 🙂

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        • Alex adams Says:

          Haha^^^
          Sm-seems you are aware of quite a lot of salman details including inner family ‘dynamics’.
          So what’s your take-when is salman gettin married and to whom? Kat?
          Your informed guess if likely to be better than ours lol

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        • “If ever that comes to fruition they ought to title it Amar & These Two Other Guys.”
          LOL

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        • Actually Salman was supposed to play Anthony, Arbaaz Amar, and Sohail Akbar. So it should be called Two Guys & Anthony. 🙂

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        • One of the reasons Salman was against this remake idea was that he didn’t want to play a role that was originally done by Amitabh.

          Like

    • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

      I am usually against remakes of classic films, be it bachchan or otherwise. That being said, I actually wouldn’t mind a remake for AAA and if made by Dhawan even better. In today’s times if anyone who can do a justice to a Manmohan Desaid type of filmmaking and that too of AAA, I would trust Dhawan for the job. That being clear, I dont mind the Khan brothers doing its bit, It may well be funny enough (ofcourse no where close to the original i am sure). But if I had a choice I would cast the 3 leading mens torch bearers. I can see Akshaye Khanna being the serious Older brother with no nonsense attitude, and Ranbir can do full justice to Akbar’s character and might even bring that extra zing to the character. Last but not least, This would be the ideal Masala entertainer that Jr. would suit the role to the T, As being discussed here how some of Jr’s character’s are eeriely similar to his fathers classic Vijay’s, This may be just the other side of the coin where in Dostana he was inspired to do comedy by watcing Sr in AAA, This would be his chance to be that Anthony and bring the house down. I persoanlly feel all 3 young men can do justice to their fathers legacy in AAA. Coming to the Ladies, Maybe Katrina in Parveen, deepika in Neetu and Vidya balan in Shabana’s shoes. Coming to the character actors, its roughly tough to replace Pran and Jeevan. But, Boman can be the closest that can almost match Pran’s dialogue delivery for this particular film. Kiron Kher can play the Nirupa Roy as the mother for these 3 men. For Ranjeet, I would suggest Arya Babbar from the lot. To fill up the shadynees of Jeevan’s character is close to impossible, I cant think of anyone who can do justice to that role from today’s character actors. If any of you can think of someone,would be interesting,Anyone?

      Like

    • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

      In “Masslla” genre, only the hero is mentioned in the title. Here he is mentioned last.

      Then in a Masalla movie the hero beats up everyone else, here he gets his butt kicked by Amar. Moreover barely escapes a kicking from Parveen’s bodyguard.

      Finally in a Masalla movie, everyone sings the hero’s hymns, here Anthony says, “TOH Akbar Iska Naam Nahin” . Additionaly, in the the hospital when Anthony suggests that Akbar should elope, Akbar just shuts him down without showing any respect for his advice. The upper hand here is given to Akbar.

      Hence given all the above, and given how much we all love movies, this question is worth investing some time into.

      Soon Salman is going to ride this movie to a 200 Cr Club and that will muddy everything. Hence now is the time to answer this question.

      Like

      • Karan, here’s the thing.. and to also continue this discussion from earlier.. people have freedom to say whatever they wish, be as biased as they want to and so on. BUT besides civility (most of the time.. because sometimes there have to be judgement calls as well) the contributions cannot always be senseless which to be brutally honest 99% of yours have become. It’s not because you’re saying this about Bachchan. Alex refers to Abhishek only as ‘Abhishrek’. So that’s not the issue. Similarly all of us are sometimes snide, we sometimes cross the line and so on. All of this is acceptable within context to one degree or another. But if you start engaging in sheer senselessness whether out of ignorance or severe partisanship or whatever it a)causes unnecessary provocation b)more importantly even when it doesn’t it considerably lowers the standard in every sense. You do this once in a while and I don’t say anything as I haven’t in the past but over time you’re increasingly pushing the envelope on this, increasingly trying to get into Guinness for really some totally senseless statements. So do watch out in the future because I won’t have much more patience with this.

        All of this is not open to debate by the way. I’ve said what I needed to.

        Like

        • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

          I cannot take back those questions, hence you better answer them. Otherwise they will linger in your mind.

          AAA is a Masalla movie, we all accept that. Then let’s reconcile these issues.

          Like

        • I have said all I needed to about this. How you want to play it going forward is your call.

          Like

        • Bachchan1 to 10 Says:

          My friend, To answer your question, The song “My name is Anthony Gonsalves” is based on the “Hero”, Bachchan is paired against the most successful actress of the lot (in those times compared to neetu & shabana). And judging by your scene to scene description I am sure you remember these couple of dialogues from it “Saheb, tum apun ko itna maara, itna maara, Pun apun tumko sirf ek maara, kya solid maar na? If that doesn’t eat up the other actor (In bombaiya term “Kha gaya” ) I dont know what is. and ofcourse, When the mother comes in Jail, and reacts to Anthony’s voice, what does she say? “Then what, Itna Solid awaaz apun ki hi ho sakta hai”. I dont see any of the two having such larger then life dialogues in the film. Rest my case brother.

          Like

        • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

          Kya Satyam Bhai

          Naaraaz ho gaye kya ?

          Like

        • Once again, revisionist historian hawks circle the fort. Their fav Humpty has already fallen and is busy collecting the pieces. Unfortunately, the hawks never learn.

          Like

      • Dr shaurya Says:

        r u serious….. haha… r u still in kindergarten… wat kind of statements r u stating… do u watch every bachchan movie with a challange that lets see how many nonsense conclusions i andraw from this film…. U dont even worth a debate

        Like

        • I think the panty-sniffing maggots should realise that there ARE other forums on the net which will lap uptheir hideous excrements and probably share their fetishes. They are really an annoyance on a serious blog and abuse the hospitality of a courteous host.

          Like

        • karankumar@comcast.net Says:

          Rajen

          Your maturity and language is appalling. On a “serious” blog like this, how do you manage ?

          Like

    • ya i guess desai was also the fool who menioned a famous quote a guy like ab is like haley comet who come once in 76 years and i guess based on star ranking only

      its hillarious and really provides good entertainmenr

      Like

  11. I’m glad you collected all of your points into this one post, Satyam. Makes for quite a read. You should consider doing something for other works that you’ve written on in fragments. Might create a nice filing system of sorts.

    On Agneepath’s reported drop – as you said it’s still early and I don’t know what the word of mouth on it is. Trusted reviews (which is to say Rangan’s review) are a bit hard to come by at this point. But unless it’s the kind of film people spill out of the theater excited about, I can’t see how it will sustain. It simply seems pretty dark and that wouldn’t be a problem if the star at the center of it was known for making that kind of project work. Hrithik, a perfectly capable movie star, is the kind of entertainer who really needs a certain guise, a certain set of rules to operate under in order to fly at the box office. I just don’t see this film as that vehicle for him. He’ll have to wait for the next Krrish movie for that defining monster hit, I think.

    Like

  12. Absolutely fantastic read here.
    That one pic of AB on the boat with his back to the camera has more attitude than the three Khans ad HR can muster in their whole careers put togther.

    Like

  13. Alex adams Says:

    The orgy of crass melodrama

    Watched agneepath today-more details later-some quick points

    Setting -house full( v v rare for a Bollywood film in this overseas multiplex)
    Had to convince a few friends /colleagues(mostly female) to watch this ahead of descendants/haywire…(since bollywood releases rarely last beyond a week)
    One nubile wicket was down at interval and others threatened ‘that’s enuf’..lol
    I nearly escaped getting beaten by a female mob..haha
    Hesitatingly asked -how many stars-answer-“minus two”!!
    I mean, not a film for the weak-hearted and definitely not for females/sensitive/minors-some scenes were cringeworthy even for me…
    Do understand that sensationalism and melodrama is important and ‘shock’ is an element–but this had distasteful stuff..
    It was as if the WHOLE FILM WAS IN UPPER CASE….wtf

    Plusses—Yes, there are some…
    Hritik roshan
    –was more than subdued and out of sync in the first half but in the second half, he rises up in the scenes/ moments to lift himself and the film
    HRs role takes a totally different graph from bachchans but adeptly handled in the latter stages. So let’s not compare HR to the bigb standard
    His weak ‘voice’ and ‘dialogue delivery’/poise does show ESP in the first half. But in the second half, he makes up with the effective emoting by the eyes.
    Recently I declared that Hritik is the biggest star package after bachchan (all things considered)
    The way HR lifts the film in the last fifteen/20 minutes was a revelation and somewhat dampened the bitter taste in the mouth.

    The climax, I thought, was everything melodramatic but awesome, in a massy sort of way.
    The hand to hand combats and Hritiks climax ‘efforts’ save the film somewhat..

    Background music was good ESP in crucial junctures and the editing/ flow maintains the ‘intensity’

    Director of photography-kiran deohans is the best currently imo and he shows it

    Priyanka is perhaps the best ‘all round’lead actress talent after Madhuri dixit–didnt have much meat in her role beyond a point …

    Sanjay dutt was insipid in the first half but picks up towards the second climax and is effective towards the end

    rishi kapoor–nothing great as being mentioned
    Yes, a difficult role for rishi like SAifs langda tyagi but not sure of this going gaga…

    Finally the only real roll of honour here —deals with HR in the last 45 min or so and illustrate his sheer starpower and ability to rise above crapness
    Standout scenes of HR – *spoilers
    PCs dying scene
    HR and his sister interactions
    The climax ‘ode to the Bollywood hero’ by HR

    Box office wise-difficult to call since there maybe enuf to like this crass loudness and enjoy certain perverted gory violence but don’t see females/family/repeat audiences here
    But maybe kjo and his machiner may have already done its job by then (going by the ‘houseful’ today)

    onlysaving grace in a Crass, loud, over-the-top, melodramatic, manipulative take

    Like

  14. Alex adams Says:

    Contd – the main relative saving grace in a Crass, loud, over-the-top, melodramatic, manipulative take was Hritik roshan towards the ‘business’ end of the second half
    Just when I started ruing another missed opportunity for Hritik, he somehow manages to pick himself up
    His eyes and silent submission towards emoting in a few later scenes were truly special amongst all the loud hysteria and mayhem around…
    Even ultra cheesy and ridiculous scenes and fight scenes were rendered special by the immense conviction
    Spoiler *
    Check out a nearly dead (shot and knifed many times) HR pick himself up to literally LIFT dutt and throw him to the ground–masala male bravado throwback redux
    Could never imagine liking this sort of stuff
    But then that’s what a special star can achieve
    Irrespective of the fate of THIS film (seems a bit uncertain now inspite of the record opening):
    The fate of one man is not in doubt-Hritik roshan

    Like

  15. Alex adams Says:

    Another point to add–
    Lot of stuff was downright ugly, crass and distasteful-agree with most of the points by utkal uncle ..

    Ps-Till the later part of the second half, totally substandard stuff. Infact thought about leaving @halftime esp to save ‘further torture’ of coviewers …

    Like

    • thanks for your detailed views Alex..

      I was infuriated by a Mumbai Mirror reviewer who didn’t like the film too much but placed the fault in the original and said it was representative of kitschy, campy 70s/80s films. The ignorance on the part of these reviewers is just appalling. The original AGneepath was technically an extremely sophisticated film that even today few can equal on this score (in Bollywood). I never liked the Mithun caricature here but otherwise this was a grandly operatic film. In any case this kind of view is perhaps symptomatic of the kind of pathetically weak misreading people have of masala cinema. They clearly decided with Agneepath that everything had to be completely over the top. If one defines masala as ‘over the top’ by definition one has not understood anything. Of course there were atrocious examples of the genre in every age but Agneepath was a cutting edge effort in most ways. So this illiterate reviewer thinks there are problems with the current film because there it’s simply trying to remake what is already at fault!

      Like

    • by the way surprised you didn’t say anything about Katrina!

      Like

  16. Saw Agneepath, very loud , slow and Long..too violent , not a single Clap worthy dialogue, .. Priyanka very annoying in a not so required part , what a waste of some exceptional talent like Hritik and Rishi Kapoor, The BGM is so loud that it can burst the eardrums,
    Chkinee Chamelee comes as a much needed relief from a a tedious and dry proceedings.
    agree with Alex some really gross scenes in the movie..
    My wife hated the movie, she is like why name it Agneeepat when you have VDC sing and dance.
    Aside- saw the 6.30 show the hall was 30% full but the 10 p.m. show had huge lines……
    showed the trailer of EMAET, Talaash and Agent Vinod……

    Spoiler Alert
    Vijay- jab tak uskee behan nahee biktee, he is OK with the flesh trade, the punch dialog – Poora naam is not with Kancha but with one of his side kick WTF…..

    Like

    • Would it be correct to say that at least a part of the huge opening day collection is due to the fact that Karan Johar managed to avoid an “A” certificate for the film? From what all I have read, that seems more fitting than the U/A certificate it did get. At least an A certificate might have kept away the families and children, with whom otherwise Hrithik has a big fan base.

      Like

    • thanks Rocky.. looks like I was smart to boycott it!

      Like

  17. Since I was also reading the subtitles , the thing that struck me was that it seemd that the dialouges were written in English first and then translated in Hindi for the characters to say…..

    Like

    • Isn’t that pretty much standard practice for most Hindi films these days? I attended an event with Shibani Bhatija (writer of KANK & Fanaa) a few years ago, and she specifically said that the screenplays are written in English, and “you have people called dialog writers, who write the dialog in Hindi.”

      Like

  18. Alex adams Says:

    “by the way surprised you didn’t say anything about Katrina!”–haha
    When dealing with irate bunch of young females (read above), realised its good to stay mum bout katrina at that time
    Or else I wouldve been gang….ed hoho!!

    Ps satyam- think u may still watch it since this is one of the more somewhat ‘significant’ films in the Bollywood discourse :(the merits/demerits notwithstanding)

    “I attended an event with Shibani Bhatija (writer of KANK & Fanaa) a few years ago,..”–hmm sm: plz tell us more.. What were u there as -are u a scriptwriter a well..
    In a school boyish mode : liked the last 15-20 min climactic ‘fight’
    -thought both dutt and ESP hritik raised their games there to prevent a total washout of a film

    Like

  19. Alex adams Says:

    And to add
    Satyam -see If for ‘analytical’ interest
    dON’T take your wives/girlfriends/’female good friends’ or
    Else
    -they will be unhappy and u will be guilty lol
    Check out some reactions from the girls-
    One moved her face away
    Another started texting and said : this should be renamed–
    A DIY guide -how to perform a public hanging
    Or
    A DIY guide -how to sell an underage in public
    (sic!!)–angry girls now
    I agree -some of the crap shown here in the name of melodrama was truly derogatory to women …

    Ps– wtf was rishi kapoor thinking of doing this role at this stage
    Don’t find much redeeming factor there
    Ranbir might be a not wmbarassed @ his dads second cuming lol

    Like

  20. Alex adams Says:

    Saw th posters of this one yesterday
    Will be seeing it for hanks

    Like

  21. alex adams Says:

    Lets get one thing straight–the NEW agneepath is nowhere close to the “quality’ of the older one (is more masala manipulative OTT aimed as “phishing” tool) and hritiks effort though v good and above expectations, is expectedly short of bachchans seminal take.
    So lets keep THIS perspecitve clear @ the outset..

    BUT box office realities are different and thats where life forms like KJO prey (and he preys well)
    Wordpress is playing up in the other thread so reposting this here–lets move ahead of petty penny-counting–“Hrithik may be a very under-estimated star due to all the focus on the Khans.”—this is probably ONE take home message here for many
    though have been saying this for ages
    The way he has carried THIS theme to these numbers is truly surprising–but the truer picture may come on monday.
    But suspect the ‘crucial job’ has already been done for this moneywise
    ALso, on hindsight,( leaving aside the fact that the female conmpany hated it) –there IS a certain ‘grip’ and “intensity” throughout culminating in the somewhat “mother of recent hand to hand combats” between dutt and HR–incidentally am becoming a bit softer on dutts take now–he actually wasnt bad in the second half (like HR)

    As a nutshell–there is a change in sweepstakes now folks , irrespective of the few crores here and there..the stage is set for HR and even dutt for munnabhai somewhat

    The “khans” and the new brigade have already felt a “tremor” with the record breaking opening–

    -now get ready for the ROAR—in krish3….

    The REAL test of the TITANS
    The opening and final figures of
    Dhoom3 and krish3—any takers…

    Approx predictions (THIS is where the real fun begins)–this is the beginning of the end of the esteemed record of 3idiots (that looks deceptively easy to achieve but like a mirage, moves away..)

    Like

  22. South filmmakers vying to remake Agneepath

    With the film raking in a whopping Rs 75 crore, KJo has since been flooded with enquiries

    Amrapali Sharma

    Posted On Wednesday, February 01, 2012 at 02:10:48 AM

    For the past few years, Bollywood filmmakers have fought tooth and nail over the remake rights of hit south Indian ventures. The tables seem to have turned with Karan Malhotra’s successful January release Agneepath. Mumbai Mirror has learnt that many filmmakers in the south are vying for the remake rights of the film, which garnered a record breaking collection of Rs 75 crore.

    According to a source from the south film fraternity, producer Karan Johar has received several enquiries from filmmakers, eager to avail of permission to remake the film. “The Dharma Productions’ office has been buzzing with activity, ever since Agneepath hit theatres. In fact, Karan has met with some of them, who flew down to Mumbai last weekend. However, he is yet to decide who he will ultimately relinquish the rights to,” said the source.

    While KJo remained unavailable for comment, a very close friend of his confirmed the news and said, “Yes, Karan has had many filmmakers from the south approach him to discuss acquiring permission to remake Agneepath.” When asked if KJo is willing to part with the film’s rights, his friend replied, “Why not? Karan has absolutely no problem as long as his family’s project is handled by capable filmmakers.”

    Like

    • a truly awesome remake would involve Vikram in the title role and Bala in the director’s!

      In fact I cannot think of another star appropriate for this remake in the South though they could go small the Tamil ‘new wave’ way and also do something interesting. On the other hand this last would defeat the purpose of this grandly operatic film. Vikram and Rathnam would be another idea though the latter tends to err on the side of restraint and I don’t think that’s necessarily a good idea here. Vikram and Bala would just be fantastic.

      Like

      • Vikram and Bala would be INSANE!!! Alas, probably a pipe dream…

        Like

        • Even I would be tempted by this combination, but I’m afraid they’d raise the bloodbath coefficient way beyond Agneepath’s.

          BTW, earlier tonight I saw a Facebook update from one of my young female relatives in India – mid 30’s, I guess. She absolutely loved Agneepath, loved Sanjay, loved Rishi, and adoored Hrithik. I don’t recall whether she was a Hrithik fan before or not. She generally likes to watch any movie that comes along, unless it has some actors she has an antipathy for. Oh, yeah, she’s also married and a mother of two. So there’s one data point on how the film is faring with the female audience. (All I can say is, I hope she didn’t take the kids along! But at least they’re old enough for school now, so maybe she sent them off to school and went to the morning show. She lives in Chennai.)

          Like

        • alex adams Says:

          sm–interesting to read that feedback

          Must say somewhat surprising
          The few (younger) females who saw AP with me hated it and are still cursing me for subjecting them to this “crass gory” stuff…
          the public hangings, rape of disabled minor and selling of underage girls was found repulsive by them
          that also affected my viewing expereince

          Wonder what the younger female demogrpahic felt.

          eg–amy–btwe where has amy dispappeared ;-0

          Like

  23. For all those predicting its fall on weekdays…Monday: 7.6 crore and Tuesday: 6.25-6.75! Its rock solid. BTW Players first day less than Agneepath Tuesday. ; )

    Like

  24. have to say trending is pretty good ( i myself was expecting it to fall)

    if a dark and violent movie like agneepath is holding that is a bigger acheivment compared to ready and bodyguard which where more family oriented …

    krish 3 might break 3 idiots overall gross

    Like

  25. and ya trending will overall always be the indication of a liked movie … even dark and violent ghajini doubles its first week tally ( and length was the prob there to)

    this is officially now the era of masala movies

    Like

  26. alex adams Says:

    Agneepath–The dawn of reality–Accept it!!!!!

    Monday 7.6 crores
    Tuesday 6.25 crores
    think one should move on now…(didnt like the film much myself and some hated it–but there is a point about “accpetance” of a verdict)

    The other FACT–Hritik roshan is one of the (if not the biggest) openers in bollywood
    Saw agneepath in a cinema where bollywood films get shown rarely and even then dont last beyond a week with modest occupancies.
    But the show was housefull on a non weekend day AFTER the reports of gore and violence were out on twitter

    When entered the hall and saw the house full, had only one phrase to mutter–“the public has spoken!!”
    Its time one learns to respect verdicts and moves on (even if they dont comply with ones own sensibilities)

    FINALLY
    Congrats to Hritik Roshan–the man deserving to be the king
    The best all round package after bachchan (barring srk)
    period!!

    Like

    • he has always been one of the biggest openers in his industry but how is he opening a film bigger than Salman? With all the frills in the world he’s not really matching those numbers or barely doing so when Salman is getting it done really with nothing films!

      On the Mon and Tue numbers I’ve said enough already and won’t repeat any of it.

      On Hrithik he’s been in position to be ‘king’ for a years and years. Haven’t seen the crowning so far. Would be willing to bet quite a bit it will never happen. He will always be what he is. One of the biggest openers, one of the biggest stars of his age but not a defining one. There’s nothing I’ve seen for many years that has changed this narrative. Nothing at all. And it’s not about what I’m saying. Find me the one piece where he’s called the industry’s top star. Krrish releases in 2013. Will probably be a monster hit. That frequency is just not enough. I’ve said this many times — you either need increased frequency on those monster hits or you need truly iconic films that can be less than monster hits or you need extraordinary reviews for your performances (not just the usual stuff that is said for every lead performance in a hit film).

      Put differently hrithik will never be either SRK (most iconic star of his age.. also for a while the one with the most iconic hits) or Aamir (don’t need to expand on this) and though he could be a Salman he’s never going to have that frequency. All these ‘debates’ we’ve been through before. He looked fantastic in ’06 after two big ones. He had a good moment with JA winning all the awards as well. After every such moment nothing really changes. And what he proves in terms of an initial or gross he proved right after KNPH!

      Many think this is about getting ‘promoted’ to the top. In this narrative eventually Aamir or Salman or whoever gets old and it’s Hrithik waiting in the wings. Sadly the industry doesn’t work like that. You don’t get promoted by seniority here!

      But there’s something that also sets Hrithik apart from SRK and Salman — the fact that he doesn’t really have a hardcore base. Not a natural constituency as it were. People love watching him and show up for his films but there is no greater ideological meaning here as there was with many key SRK films. Aamir was sort of like this but Aamir then over time and beginning in the 90s actually started breeding a populist/nationalist image. Of course he eventually became so defining because of accumulation of prestige but the populist element has also been incorporated into most of these works if not all. Aamir represents something in this sense even though he too doesn’t have a natural constituency. Hrithik doesn’t ‘mean’ anything beyond the obvious fact of his stardom.

      Like

    • by the way a film that is doing 7 crores on that sort of print count probably doesn’t have more than 20-30% occupancy on such a day. So yes some shows are houseful, there are many more empty ones. Again to repeat a point with that many screens you could get 35-40 crores in a day if not more if everything was at 100%. The fact that most films don’t even do this doesn’t mean that these films are putting up great percentages. Once upon a time and up until and through the Devdas release they used to print percentages (attendance) in the trade. They suddenly stopped doing it one day. More corruption as far as I’m concerned.

      Like

  27. alex adams Says:

    The bachchans–a reality check

    Before the release of angeepath (new), HR said that he was keen on showing the film to amitabh to get his views..
    Since then havent heard of anything on it yet, as per my knowledge
    Or has bachchan refused to see it
    havent seen ANY comment from bachchan on the new AP esp about its record breaking first day
    If there have been some, plz let me know-Im curious
    Wonder whats goin through bachchans mind
    and can bet–things are not hunky dory bw bachchans and kjo

    btw bachchans as a combined “brand” are at an alltime low point rite now –(though bachchan sr will stay relevant and in the case of Ash it os more to do with maternity/age–so no fault there)

    Like

    • yes the Bachchans have not been part of the whole deal at all.. it’s surprising Johar didn’t have a big premiere but even at the screening he did have the Bachchans weren’t around.. Bachchan Sr has been in Gujarat mostly but these things can always be arranged.. that ‘blessing’ has clearly not been forthcoming so far.. when asked about it I’m sure they’ll say nice things.. Abhishek said in an interview he was interested in seeing what they’d done and so on but that’s par for the course.

      Like

  28. alex adams Says:

    bachchan is usually profuse in his praise even for some mediocre films
    but this one seems to have really hurt
    hes human after all…

    whateva one may say, its like trying to take taj out of agra..
    Things dont happen in a vacuum suddenly
    but there are usually some ‘key’ moments
    this is ONE ..
    for post bachchanism !!

    and unless there is a real reworking/reinvention, feel the bachchan brand (like everything else in life) going down
    Note–bachchan srs own status/place will stay
    its this whole bachchan family ‘brand’ which may slowly get less relevant sp with abhishrek continued underperformance.

    time and merit waits for none…

    Like

    • though the post-Bachchan moment has in some ways been much more about him than it was in the 90s. Because now you have SRK and Hrithik lining up to remake his stuff. There are some other lesser remakes. It’s hardly getting away from him.

      But yes the Bachchan brand does depend on Abhishek and has for some time.

      I might be the last person still willing to bet big on Abhishek. LOL! Of course can’t say that majorities have ever scared me much! These majorities turn on a dime and I’m too much a student of film history not to know this.

      Like

  29. alex adams Says:

    The Change in scene -slow, imperceptible…

    a bit uncomfortable slow and steady decline into relative oblivion for some and the inevitable rise of the “chosen” one—thats how the “scene” changes slowly and somewhat imperceptibly

    As of now—after the inevitable decline of the 3 resurgent khans–
    only TWO seem poised to “rule” for the next decade and two–
    Hritik Roshan and Ranbir Kapoor
    ps–waited to see the tuesday AP figures to write this last statement
    but now have NO doubt…

    Would never have added another name to hritiks name here.
    Its just that a SINGLE ranbir performance (rockstar) “forced” my hands and the entire sweepstakes

    PS- btw just out of curiosity–just as an update…
    what films does sr bachchan currently have in hand and on floors (not proposals/ideas )
    and what does abhishek have barring bol bachchan and dhoom3

    Like

    • not sure about Bachchan.. there have been a number of suggestions but nothing has started as yet..

      With Abhishek too some are in the suggestion phase.. recently the Priyadarshan film was confirmed by him but Abhishek hasn’t said anything about this.. he has however said he’ll be beginning a bigger budget film soon that he will produce that will star him and his father, that will be directed by the Idea ads guy, and that will be a full masala deal.

      Like

  30. alex adams Says:

    just to add–being a bachchan sr fan and now liking hritiks,
    didnt like ‘singling’ out bachchans like this
    but the fact is that expectations from them are different —
    for good and bad

    Also–must add a note of admiration for all three “resurgent” khans who still seem to be at the top of their games at the wron side of 40s
    and are delaying the inevitable takeover (by HR and now ranbir)
    The rest are “minor” players (to be polite)….

    Like

  31. Alex adams Says:

    Haha
    The ‘nothing’ films salman is throwing big numbers are simply the most family friendly and bo friendly ones like ready , bodyguard erc

    AP is a different vibe wherein whole segment(s) are excluded
    And to throw these numbers on Tuesday with this theme deserved credit

    Agree that the “crowning” ceremony has not happened and may not happen not only for HR but for any star in this multipolar scenario!!!

    But when u get an opening day that arguably beats ra1, don2, ready , bodyguard and the works –& with this gory theme
    One has achieved something more than a ‘symbolic’ crowning

    Ps- this is in no ways to deride the 3 khans
    HR has obvious limitations and unless he works on them (voice, kickass badass attitude etc) he may not match em later
    But we are talking of 4-5 years from now when the khans will have to inevitably ‘slow down’

    Ps2- the khans haven’t really finished yet
    Can see atleast one excelling behind the camera
    As for the other –
    He is a self luminous ‘fire’ who will fade competely only with his mortal demise
    Any guesses?

    Like

    • Don’t agree at all. The success of AP is a function of the cult success of the original. AP in that sense always had an edge. I would honestly say the closest he has got to being the top draw and star is actually very very early in his career when Mission Kashmir opened better than Mohabbatein. Since D2 his box office success has been very patchy but thats mixed with a more risky filmography.

      Like

  32. Alex adams Says:

    Don’t disagree with that either jayshah
    Infact am a bigger fan of the seminal quality of AP

    “The success of AP is a function of the cult success of the original. AP in that sense always had an edge. ”
    Well, the cult (& box office success of the original) was no less with don
    So with a ‘bigger’ star (infact the ‘ruling king’ himself) -what happened to the ‘remakes’
    That too with a better director and TWO attempts at cracking it
    Ok- the ‘films’ weren’t good enuf
    But y on lords name didn’t the initial match up

    And closer home- ok, rgv ki aag was a pathetic film and so pathetic that even promos couldn’t hide this ‘quality’
    But is there any film more ‘cult’ and ‘seminal’ than sholay
    Not talking bout the trending -but y the subpar openings here

    Time to give credit where due..
    Have NEVER seen some segments hating a film SO much that they resort to a walkout–this can’t be compared to a ready or bodyguard or even don2 and least of all ra1

    Like

    • I’ve said this before but Abhishek and Hrithik could both become leading members of a transitional generation. What Abhishek needs to do to clean up his act is obvious. With Hrithik it’s just a question of frequency. a problem that can be easily solved but he doesn’t seem inclined to do this. Doesn’t mean I’m comparing their draw at this point by any means but Abhishek’s symbolic value cannot be underestimated irrespective of his box office woes.

      In terms of the next obviously Ranbir is the only authentic star on the horizon. But I am not yet persuaded of his ‘gifts’ in the sense of thinking of him as a very important star. He can certainly become one of the top stars, probably is already one in some ways. But I don’t see him as a great star. At least not so far. Principally because in my view he doesn’t have much screen presence. I’d be surprised if he became a defining star of any kind.

      On the rest I don’t think it’s fair to say that given certain caveats Agneepath is doing quite well. Not that I disagree with those points necessarily but one has to then take into account many such negatives for many films. Also Salman’s run cannot be discounted precisely because these are junk films. But no one else is getting close to those numbers! It really is all about him!

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      • Alex adams Says:

        Numbers are very very important …^^ yes Salman has thrown some turbo charged numbers recently

        But somehow, if u want my frank opinion on Salman
        Take out dabang from his filmography and I won’t even discuss him amongst these other esteemed gentlemen being talked bout here
        Yes, he is a big star and sometimes overrides other variables
        But this ‘over ride’ is also limited

        Also if the quality of someones ‘low point flops’ are like guzzarish, give me that anyday

        And amongst his peers, SRK and aamir are simply in a different planet -basically inspite if his recent numbers, its only between these two really —

        Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          As for Hritik and ranbir, the former is much better than meets the eye
          For eg imagine HR in the most defining (&only for me) acts of ranbir– not sure about the acting but he may well do better as a ‘rockstar’-having said that, have a lot or respect for ranbirs act in rockstar
          But in rockstar, a lot has to do with Ar Rahman and (for me -nargis fakhri -yes-to hell with others-found her great!!)

          Now imagine ranbir in krish
          As a superhero 🙂
          Oh yes-let’s have that chimp Imran khan as krish
          This guy should be ‘banned’ from films and kicked out of the next film shoot and served some cerelac–oops think I overreacted there -some people may get offended

          Like

        • I agree with everything your saying but the market often thinks differently.. prestige cinema obviously matters a lot but Salman’s success rate has been an overriding factor. Do agree that I don’t know how long this can be maintained..

          Like

  33. Alex adams Says:

    Just to add
    A female die hard fan of SRK (who is also a covert Salman fan) & threatened to ‘walk out’ during AP
    (& who is quite a cinema know-all) after AP declared–
    ” forget earning money, if this film breaks even-change my name!!”

    Little did she know that this broke the ALL TIME opening day record beating all films of the entire filmography of her favourite stars
    And the tuesday numbers didn’t show the awaited ‘slide’

    And where is utkal uncle 😉

    Must say-I’m somewhat bemused by the Tuesday numbers
    Means that there is some ‘covert’ segment who seems to have loved this film

    Ps-this film has /will work for HR Not for his ‘traditional’ strengths
    Two scenes stand out
    The crying ‘implosion’ @ PCs death
    The ‘rise from the ashes’ in the hand to hand combat with dutt culminating in lifting him over his head–typical cheesy school,I’d stuff but literally lifted by HR !!!

    Think that’s enuf of HR 4 a few days 🙂

    Like

  34. Alex adams Says:

    As a closing thought to this masala

    Spare a thought for the ‘new brigade’
    Imran khan in and as krish

    What the heck
    Do we need to get nappies for this ‘superhero’
    One can understand all the stuff bout ‘cute’ and ‘boyush charm’ and ‘being the appropriate age’ etc etc
    But Imran khan
    Even in strong author backed roles, he has been poker faced and ZERO screen presence
    Have been quiet for a while on this but no more
    The other day—
    Katrina RAPED him in mere bro
    Now Kareena is RAPING him in ek main ek tu
    Heck, that NRI gal literally …him in delay belly
    Totally insipid and listless
    Is this what a mainstream hero been reduced to now
    Give us a Satyam/ rockstar or utkal (mature crowd) anyday
    Gud nite folks
    Need to do something more “productive” with this form ..lol

    Like

  35. Alex adams Says:

    And yes: a final one 🙂
    “I’m virgin number 1-ranbir”
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/Im-Virgin-No-1-says-Ranbir-Kapoor/articleshow/11713319.cms

    Btw if this is made with a female lead, who should be the appropriate cast of ‘virgin number 1’?? Hahaha

    Like

  36. Saw Agneepath.
    In PVR, Ahmedabad. 40% full – 8.45 pm show on Thursday.
    Have to say it is not bad at all.
    Karan Malhotra is a director to watch out for.
    Would take this any day over a remake like Don. May be the aspirations here are as perverse as Don in remaking but this has a lot more soul than the Don remake franchise.
    Is still flawed and the narrative gets a bit choppy from time to time, more so in the second half but is gripping enough.
    One of my main objections to the remake was the choice of HR to play VDC. Hrithik turns in a trademark solid, sincere performance but one cannot shake off the feeling that this ia a boy trying to fill into a man’s shoes. He is certainly not the VDC of the old AP.But,then no one can be. Have to say the child artitst who plays the young Vijay was able to convey the raw anger more effectively with his eyes than Hrithik. Hrithik IS aided by his physicality in the portrayal but doesnt quite have the ability to portray anger, non chaklance, cynicism and remorse all together in one look that AB does. But, then who has? This VDC often comes across as being helpless which the original never did, even when the chips were down. In that respect this is a bery different VDC. Far more vulnerable and far less able. In other respects works quite well as a masal revenge drama and inspite of a rather stock plot, Malhotra tells a good story. Sometimes gets implausible and illogical but not more so than usual BW blockbusters. Particularly, his first foray into Mandwa where he walks in by himself and gets tortured by Kancha.
    Sanjay Dutt hasa great get up but the performance is incosistent.
    There should be a law against the viliians having a maniacal alghter.We have moved on. Rishi is great but his character suffers a bit from poor writing. Dialogues are pedestrian and this is a big drawback. Background score and locales are great. And Chikni Chameli does its job. The climax has come in for quite a bit of praise tho I found it to be a little bit of a let down. The guy who plays the master is quite effective. Priyanaka emotes well but looks weird and artifical. May be the company she keeps is rubbing off on her.
    All in all, not a bad watch at all.
    Definitely, recommend.

    Like

  37. Would like to add that it is quite fitting that this remake has Om Puri in a much better role than the caricature in Don. Quite in keeping with the theme of the remakes.If Don turns one off to the idea of remakes being as fake and flaky as it was, this offers the hope that there IS another and a far more sincere way of making remakes.

    Like

  38. karankumar@comcast.net Says:

    Rajen

    Hopefully they sell Preperation H in Ahmedabad

    Like

  39. Caught up with the remake. This was a watchable film, with some memorable elements, but a bit bland too. It was also exactly the Agneepath one would expect from Karan Johar. Because the tone of Vijay’s world is never as grave or as intense (even with the abundant blood-lettings on display here) as it was in Mukul Anand’s vision. Or at least not in the same ways because while Anand’s film always seemed anchored to the inevitability and “glory” in death, Karan Malhotra’s film seems to be in a constant state of mourning. So the focus of this new Agneepath is on Johar’s favorite topic, and the thing that obviously stood out to him most from the predecessor’s basic storyline–the estranged family drama that forms some of Vijay’s backstory. Almost as if K3Gs interests were injected into the Agneepath template! Every opportunity is taken to constantly and redundantly wallow in the tragedy of the broken family and as a result the “fire” of Agneepath is doused by tears here–indeed Hrithik’s Vijay seems to well up at every sign of wrongdoing and moral injustice and painful memories, which always seems like an odd trait for a formidable gangster. The film also seems to be interested in connecting religion to acts of violence and violent characters, a subtext that isn’t justified or explored too deeply and seems instead to exist only as another sideshow-touch in the context of a larger circus. The film could probably be enjoyed better if one had no sense of a history or that unique trait some have developed where they can divorce a predecessor’s ghost from its remake. I couldn’t quite make that leap though. Don’t think the filmmakers could hope to escape it which is why the film is preceded by all those special thanks and that note on homage by Johar.

    Like

    • very useful comment here GF. Loved this line:

      “indeed Hrithik’s Vijay seems to well up at every sign of wrongdoing and moral injustice and painful memories, which always seems like an odd trait for a formidable gangster.”

      Ha!

      And you make a valuable point on the whole religious angle.

      part of a comment I left on Bachchan’s blog:

      [The agon with the past is not won or even conducted simply by exercises in propaganda or by ‘asserting’ one’s right to a place. One has to earn it and the struggle is never easy. Because in the bargain one can not just lose but also suffer a mortal wound! If one aims for a certain transcendence the price of failure is that one’s own hollowness is completely exposed. One cannot then even return to the more limited space one earlier occupied. Notice how Agneepath is a rather ‘sad’ exercise for Hrithik in this sense. Notice he doesn’t quite seem celebratory about it despite all the media narratives hyping the ‘success’ and so on. There’s a precise reason here. Agneepath (the remake) might well have been titled ‘How to Avoid Vijay Deenanath Chauhan’! Here the transcendence rests with Dutt or Rishi Kapoor. The Vijay character is almost sneaked in! Below the radar! No one should notice him too much! The game lost, conceded.. before it has even begun. Even if Hrithik is not a great ‘theorist’ about all of this he can certainly intuit this reality. This applies to Johar as well. If he were given truth serum I think he’d admit he might have done better here! But that itself is an illusion. The whole point about Don and Agneepath is that these films and certainly their lead roles cannot be better. You can hype things, make the films qualified successes but at the end you have the feeling that you’re holding an empty shell.]

      Like

      • Great comment. Hrithik was fine here on the surface, and he didn’t offend me as some others did, but he seems altogether pointless, especially as he’s saddled with a toothless Vijay. Vijay here seems rather one-note and a bit bland – as you suggest above he seems “beside the point,” tangential perhaps, to what’s going on. Thought Rishi and Dutt were fine but the latter after a while is really just a rather forced caricature. A sideshow freak played for effect. Found Om Puri in his few minutes of screen time far more interesting to watch than either of them, and his Gaitonde was a nice reprieve in the sense that it was a natural turn in a movie otherwise filled with a lot of posturing. Nothing got to me more than Priyanka Chopra though. She was so uncomfortably, poorly shoehorned into the narrative here that it really made some scenes drag. Also found her song sequences (though all of them suffer from this) lazily staged.

        Like

        • agreed on your Dutt characterization. He was never quite able to live upto the expectation of being a larger than life character. Never quite seemed to own the part, even felt bogged down by it. Rishi was in his element but when Johar gets the lovable Akbar to play this fairly repulsive Muslim character who sells young girls I at least raise red flags. I suppose one could call this a Leone-like approach where Henry Fonda against all his screen history was cast as an evil, figure. Of course since I am not brain-dead yet (not totally at least) one can safely put aside this possibility! The defacement of a certain tradition, consciously or otherwise, continues in Johar’s world!

          Like

        • I liked Rishi fine but again he does more than a little bit of scenery-chewing. Though admittedly he does this far more successfully than Dutt and some of the other guys here. In any case he’s always a welcome presence. And yes, found this to be a sad characterization in its connection to Akbar.

          Like

        • i thought that new agneepath missed a very important theme of the original one- in bachchan’s version, the main theme was not abt vijay taking revenge from kaancha but it was vijay reclaiming the lost honour of his mother and family-kaancha was just a pit-stop on the way to the finish line.the new one is solely focused on the ‘vendetta with kaancha’ issue and apart from 1-2 occasions, the issue of ‘reclaimation of honour’ hardly comes up.i believe here itself the makers of the new AG missed the point

          Like

  40. Alex adams Says:

    Satyam/ gf hav u done a piece on the new agneepath…
    Though repulsive at places, ordinary at others, laughable at some junctures–but it IS a significant film in more ways than one (given the film of it is a remake of)

    Like

    • Haven’t written anything on it. Just caught it the other night and the above comment is pretty much all I care to say on it. Doesn’t exactly inspire one to write much!

      Like

  41. Alex adams Says:

    Will mostly remember the new agneepath as a painful experience.
    Got nearly beaten up by a bunch of girls who were (rightfully) shocked at being shown this crass film with moments galore of misogyny, regressive manipulation and melodramatic loudness..
    With rishi I disagree..
    Don’t think rishi did any real special job here
    The ‘role’ was repulsive what with the guy willing to ‘sell off’ every other gal he sets sight on etc
    The fact that this was done by the sweet rishi added to the ‘surprise element’-which kjo played on successfully
    This sort of trope is nothing new and unfortunately doesn’t impress beyond a point about the ‘actors’ ability , beyond a certain extent
    This is in a similar vein to my objection to SAifs ultra celebrated (to the sky!!) act of pagan stained teeth as langda tyagi
    Nope –seems a bluff though
    In both cases of rishi in new ap and langda tyagi–the quality of performance was much above average but not commensurate to the ‘praise’

    Like

  42. Alex adams Says:

    Also I feel one should be ‘lenient’ on kjo wrt agneepath
    He’s not ‘ripping off’ anymore else’s film
    At the end of the day, it was his dads film
    It is unequivocal that the first version underperformers
    It’s ok to sit here and analyse its ‘impact’ and ‘legacy’ etc
    But the producer who lost most of his bank balance is the one who feels the max pinch
    And one has no reasons to disbelieve kjos own versions on the lack of success of his own dads film–why would he lie and Claim a box office success of his dad, a losing proposition !!
    To that effect–kjo had a single minded agenda-no quality, no prestige–take the remake to a blockbuster status
    Which it has achieved for its genre, and style and dark tone–case closed !!!
    The one rare redeeming part of Karen malhotras otherwise sickly sensibilities was his relative understanding of a certain tradition and style-I actually don’t rate him that badly after hearing one of his interviews– a hard working sensible guy , he seemed
    Btw a scene that redeemed the film somewhat for me and brought back kiddish urges 😉
    Of beating up people

    Both Hritik and dutt rocked in the climax fight
    The ultra cheesy literal lifting of duttby Hritik make the kid in me happy lol

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