Bol Bachchan trailers (updated)
thanks to Me My Myself..
thanks to Bliss..
thanks to Tyler..
thanks to Vijay ML..
Thanks to Kassam, Raghav, Vijay ML…
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SATYAMSHOT 
May 24, 2012 at 1:13 PM
This will be an easy success. It looks like Golmaal 4.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:18 PM
And this is my problem with the likes of shetty. Even for a commercial filmmaker I’m not sure why the bar cannot be raised just a bit higher. But yeah the audience laps it up, the trade calls him Bergman!
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May 24, 2012 at 1:27 PM
Satyam by his own standards Shetty did try to raise the bar with ATB. what happened there? the gross suffered and so he is back to this- that tells us something- everyone is not Manmohan Desai
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May 24, 2012 at 1:29 PM
but that was a much more low key film on a smaller budget. Don’t think he was expecting a big one there.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:40 PM
not at all satyam- it was slightly less budgeted but the carnival song of the film was the most expensive song to have been made in bollywood till then. and he released it on diwali alongside blue so obviously he was expecting something (though it fared much better than blue commercially and critically)
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May 24, 2012 at 1:44 PM
fair enough.. though the film otherwise mostly took place on a single set. Of course this film was the best of the comedies given the abysmally low bar set otherwise! Having said that I haven’t dared to watch any of the Golmaals.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:12 PM
Incidentally, Shetty has been approached for comments about the reception to his trailer, but according to Nahata he’s too busy accepting his MacArthur Grant.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:20 PM
they would have this sent to the Oscars if they could..
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May 24, 2012 at 1:15 PM
LOL, I can see why Jiggy had such an anxious reaction to this! If this is a Devgan solo I’d hate to see what his multistarrers look like! Can’t think of a trailer with greater parity for a two hero film! And again there’s that ‘incidental’ question of the title!
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May 24, 2012 at 1:21 PM
Bachchan fans to Rohit Shetty after seeing Bol Bachchan Promo : ” Dil aisa kisi ne mera toda, ajay devgan hater bana ke chhoda” 😀
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May 24, 2012 at 1:18 PM
Its an amalgamation of all Rohit Shetty masala in one film. In all probability its n easy success
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May 24, 2012 at 1:21 PM
Making of the trailer:
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/movies/video/type/view/id/1441961
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May 24, 2012 at 1:23 PM
Trailer is exactly what i expected. but by the end of 2013 Abhishek will have a 100 crore grosser in bol bochchan and hopefully a 150cr one in dhoom 3. but sadly amongst the projects he has signed right now there is that one slightly ‘off-beat abhishek kinda film’ is missing. on that note devgn can have 3 more 100 cr films by then- this, son of sardar and himmatwala remake
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May 24, 2012 at 1:25 PM
It is also Shetty’s thanks giving gesture to his Comedy Circus peers – Archana Puran Singh and stand-up comic artist Krishna
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May 24, 2012 at 1:30 PM
those 2 r a shame in the name of comedy. whenever i see archana puran singh dance to the beats of Ali Baba in agneepath, i instantly change the channel
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May 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM
She was hilarious in Oye Lucky Lucky Oye- I don’t recall her performances in anything else.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:38 PM
Krishna is good, sometimes too good along with kapil sharma
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May 24, 2012 at 1:34 PM
Awful…absolutely horrific! One doesn’t need to be brain-dead to watch this crap; one can only be dead!
And I suspect this will be a flop. Only death, taxes and Abhishek Bachchan flops are certainties in this world…
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May 24, 2012 at 1:37 PM
Saket mate i share the same feeling as u abt the film but i can bet on this that a super-hit is guaranteed here
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May 24, 2012 at 1:43 PM
I can’t even say without feeling loads of guilt that ‘I hope it becomes a hit.’
I honestly feel it should tank! I would love to see it tank.
If this film becomes a hit, Salman Khan deserves every bit of success with films like Bodyguard. No kidding!
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May 24, 2012 at 1:45 PM
I am with you on the ‘deserving’ bit. However since there have been a 100 others might as well add this one especially since unlike the others Abhishek has tried a lot of risky and/or meaningful stuff.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:51 PM
Yes, can’t begrudge Abhishek ‘any’ success…
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May 24, 2012 at 1:42 PM
Think this will finally turn it around for him. I certainly wish it had been something better but this looks as much of a sure-shot based on the trailer as anything possibly can in the business.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:49 PM
fully agree here satyam…. the trailor is fun…..this will be a superhit for sure…..abhi does look more into the characters this time around……above all – for me – Asin looks so ravishingly pretty here……I love her 🙂
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May 24, 2012 at 1:54 PM
BTW, Asin is part of three 100 cr films out of the 4 she has done in BW:
– Ghajini
– Ready
– HF2
and BB would be her forth – not a bad track record i guess – 4 out of 5 films in 100 cr club…..
amazing screen presence she has – esp. those eyes -……..
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May 24, 2012 at 2:10 PM
at 4.30 in this video – asin talks abt BB, Abhi, AD….
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May 24, 2012 at 1:35 PM
Satyam, i find this really odd and sad. there r people who come here and instantly become ajay devgn just to pull down abhishek. i wonder where were these fans when tezz was releasing. where r their comments on the ‘images from son of sardar’ thread. i am a bigger devgn fan than abhishek but to say that this a solo project is a baseless comment. devgn is very close to the bachchan family(from major saab days) so the question of abhishek getting a weaker part in his production does not even arise
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May 24, 2012 at 1:40 PM
First off being an Ajay Devgan fanatic would seem to be an improbable profession if there ever was one! Agreed on the rest though. They have a very close relationship. Don’t think Devgan would produce a film with another hero and have the title pointing to him in the same way! The thing here is that the Golmaal arc, no matter how much one plays with the parts (or debases them a la Shetty!) are still essentially about a guy pretending to be two and fooling another guy. So the title while not necessary is not illogical either though precisely because something else could have been used here the whole ‘Bachchan’ stress becomes that much more important. Much as one of those guys needn’t have been called ‘Abhishek Bachchan’ in the film! Nothing surprises me about this trailer on that score. I operate with the perhaps revolutionary proposition that if a guy isn’t central to a film he doesn’t get the film’s title!
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May 24, 2012 at 1:51 PM
“First off being an Ajay Devgan fanatic would seem to be an improbable profession if there ever was one!”- LOL but that is being too harsh on devgn. he definitely has a fan following and it is bigger than abhishek’s. actually, u may not agree to this, but his sultan mirza role from OUATIM has gained him lot of popularity and is becoming a cult hit of sorts. BTW it just came across my mind that govinda, even though he does not exactly look like a wrestler, would have been a better choice than devgn
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May 24, 2012 at 2:05 PM
I know he has a following but he doesn’t strike as being the kind of star who would excite extreme passions! Do think though that he’s become a kind of vessel much like Salman has in a much bigger way for a certain return of the repressed structure. In other words these sorts of films are so in your face and in rather ‘bad’ ways that they’re the ultimate ‘F…k you’ sign to the SRK/Yashraj universe. And I think those segments of the audience that were shut out for many years, who either weren’t getting the sorts of films they wanted and/or didn’t see their favorites getting enough ‘respect’ (to be honest I can understand this.. that whole SRK/Johar paradigm was also about ‘dissing’ everyone else in all sorts of ways and most of all those who had any kind of action roots), who had a certain resentment building all these years now have their chance. So it’s the not the sort of extreme partisanship that is based on a star’s true iconic appeal but the kind that is derived from something else. Of course Devgan has fans and is popular but as I’ve said before his box office numbers just don’t suggest that kind of great stardom that many assert. Even the Singham kind of deal it must be said plays very well to a certain kind of ethnic coding. It’s not neutral at all. But the fans in any case are in it for the Singham kind of posturing not really the Golmaal series. The latter just becomes the crutch by way of which they can say he’s super-successful too and so on. Not that I have a problem with Devgan at all. I’d rather have him doing well than not.
On the rest would disagree with the Govinda bit because the part here requires the menace to be real as well. So it’s a comedic part but it relies on the actor being plausible in this part otherwise. Something Govinda couldn’t have achieved. But again Dutt would have been great here with the right look and so on. The camaraderie in the trailers seems fine but Devgan just isn’t a comedic talent. It’s patently obvious even in this trailer. If everything else works in the film he’s alright I suppose but many actors would be alright in the same way. It’s not like Singham where he looks perfectly right for the terrain.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:16 PM
Satyam brilliantly put. especially ur first para where u said that singham kind of films allow certain fans to thrash yrf/kjo films by using devgn and salman as a stick. also believe devgan was never handsome in the traditional sense to get a mass fan following- he hardly has any female fans. btw since these 2-3 months when i have been active on SS i have never seen so many devgn fans as i have seen today
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May 24, 2012 at 2:22 PM
but it also speaks to the fact that you can suddenly increase your following with the right kind of film. For him the crucial films have been OUATIM and especially Singham. The latter has a great recall value, especially in Western India. The rest of the stuff is just about ‘padding’ the narrative. Don’t blame him for doing it though.
In many ways the combination of these ridiculous trade narratives and the blogosphere where you can probably find groups who believe in Tushar Kapoor’s genius (!) one can cling to just about any idea and become more and more extreme in the process. Because there are always more like you.
Again I don’t at all mind Devgan’s success or salman’s irrespective of the fact that I don’t watch most of the films in question. I want these guys to be viable for all sorts of reasons. But the point is that a lot of the support in many instances is not ‘pure’.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:25 PM
Don’t think it’s that simple…one could argue that events, trends etc are ‘cyclical’ in nature but to suggest that Devgan’s rise owes itself to a simple ‘reaction’ doesn’t offer a very strong argument.
I would argue Salman doesn’t owe his resurgence to any reaction either. He always had a strong fan following. Devgan too, with Phool Aur Kaante, gave the kind of hit that Abhishek is yet to give.
I don’t side with Devgan fans (anyone who shortens his name from Devgan to Devgn opens himself to — ah, the possibilities — persistent ridicule) who have new found love for the star to rubbish Abhishek, but Devgan’s no Tushaar Kapoor or Fardeen Khan. That much is certain.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:32 PM
The problem is that there’s an inherent contradiction here. First off if Salman was always at the same spot why did it take him so very long to have such a big one? And how is he mysteriously getting such big ones one after the other? Even in the late 90s, his last strong period, where he had a number of successes it was nothing like this.
Also if you’re going to quote a Devgan hit 20 years ago why not do the same with Guru which is only 5 years ago?! Devgan too after his initial hit was more or less irrelevant for most of the 90s. Doing his stuff like most others. Then at one point in the earlier to mid part of the last decade he had some average/above average films one year. Built up a streak. Nothing happened beyond this either. His current moment in probably his career best and certainly Singham has been his most important film since Phool aur Kaante. Using such lax criteria where people go years without not only getting hits but also high profile projects in either the commercial or prestige sense one would have to say that Abhishek even at his lowest point has always done a lot better.
But note I never said Devgan was all about a reaction. However I believe it’s a large part of it. Salman is somewhat different though he too has exchanged his base at some point. He started off being a certain kind of hero, then Dhawanized himself and now this is his most successful phase. Certain kinds of films just reset the clock for stars but there might be longer trends where stars just change the terrain altogether. Aamir for at least 15 years has not been the QSQT/Dil guy which is to say he’s not had those fans with him. And again I am absolutely not being reductive about Devgan or Salman even if both have been really not important for the larger Bollywood conversation in any sense for very long periods of time (Salman more or less after the late 90s besides some years in the 90s, Devgan pretty much after his debut film and for sparks here and there.. even on their best days they weren’t even close to the highest benchmarks of their days accounting for everything… now I accept that the Bollywood equation didn’t favor them but nonetheless these are the facts..). Just playing sociologist for a bit here in much the same way as I’ve always tried to understand the ideological roots of Aamir’s base.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:35 PM
Will repeat that as with so much else that happens online there is on Bollywood stars the kind of extreme polarization that wasn’t the case before. So obviously some stars were always more popular than others, people had their favorites but the online experience drives people to great extremes.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:30 PM
“Because there are always more like you.”- i did not get u here Satyam. i don’t think i have been an ‘extreme’ fan of devgn at all.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:33 PM
I meant ‘you’ generically not as in you specifically!
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May 24, 2012 at 2:44 PM
Ok, i misunderstood u there. but satyam, devgn may not have given too many superhits but even those small hits were much more in number than abhishek’s- there is not even a comparison here. also just like a yuva’s effect simply cannot be limited to its gross, same is the case with a Bhagat singh, company, apaharan, gangajal (btw all these films were profitable). his OUATIM will most probably become a cult film for sure. also devgn does hold certain prestige as an ‘actor’ with everyone’s mind
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May 24, 2012 at 3:21 PM
I disagree on Bhagat Singh. The film did almost zero and no one ever talks about it. What’s the impact of this film? It’s not even in the Zakhm category! On Devgan doing better if you count all his average/above average films (since he actually has few solid hits before his current phase.. very few in fact) and then run a ratio against his failures you will not find a worse ratio for Abhishek post-Yuva. Now if one includes pre-Yuva films that’s a different matter though some of these weren’t terrible at the box office. Refugee was above average, Zameen (with Devgan!) was about ok. But even including all of this you might get a better picture for Devgan prior to his current phase. Still not sure about it. Would have to think about all the films. One of the things is people don’t remember the failures after a certain times. Look at his list on IMDB, most people wouldn’t remember a third of those films from the 90s if that! They just came and went without a trace (incidentally saw all those films again not too long ago so I do keep up!). And this is the problem. The specifics often offer a very different story except that over time these become less important. If Abhishek has three hits in a row or something no one’s going to obsess with the failures. I’ve seen narratives in the past that focus on his 2004-2007 phase and then jump to SR or Dostana or something and mention a couple of flops. Or when one is successful the average films are presented as hits (when the star is otherwise flopping the opposite happens). So a lot of this is very retrospective stuff. Abhishek has never been ‘dead’ ever since Yuva. Even at his lowest points he’s had the films. Devgan was gone for the longest time. Just didn’t have the films do get anything done. Salman similarly in some ways. By the way (and this is a response to Saket actually) note how London Dreams with both Salman and Devgan did nothing! So much for all those hordes waiting to support the films. It didn’t even get an initial!
all of this isn’t an argument against Devgan or Salman or anyone else. But I just find some of claims extraordinarily questionable on factual grounds. It’s like I’ve argued against Sunny sometimes. This is not about what I think of him as an actor. But on the box office front he’s had tons and tons of failures throughout the 80s and 90s. Today people mention a couple of films in the 80s, a couple in the 90s and move on! The historical record is a lot more complicated. Which is why as I’ve always said for Abhishek if you want to argue that he is something special then you can have him live upto a higher bar but if he’s nobody then I don’t see why he has to follow such strict standards when so many others had lean periods for years as a common narrative in their careers. Dutt is another such guy by the way!
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May 24, 2012 at 3:22 PM
anyway have to run now, will catch up later.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:49 PM
The thing with Salman is, and this can be verified by people in India, that he has a massive following in what we call the A, B & C centers. With his choices, not to mention his anti-social behavior he was possibly losing the crowd in the metros, the multiplex hubs, so to speak. That’s why a ‘Tere Naam’ which saw big footfalls in terms of actual tickets sold (Garv, another B & C center hit, also comes to mind) did not earn big money, overall. His fanbase was there. With Dabangg, Wanted etc, he finally gave his fans what they were waiting for. And also won over some new ones.
I’m surprised you equate Guru with Devgan’s PAK, which was probably a blockbuster hit. Certainly had the kind of trending that’s only associated with blockbusters.
I’m hardly a fan of Ajay Devgan. I don’t find him to be a good actor, let alone deserving of 2 National Awards, but then I don’t find Abhishek Bachchan to be a ‘good’ actor either. Certainly capable of delivering good performances, but not consistent enough. And in films like ‘Players’ he’s as out of place as Devgan looks out of place in a comedy. Abhishek lacks charisma. There, I made the understatement of the year!
Moving on, Devgan’s been on some kind of streak recently. I certainly liked him in OUATIM. He’s had consistent box office success, the disaster called Tezz notwithstanding. So naturally, the film’s success (if it’s a success in the first place) will be attributed to him. Abhishek at the moment is a box office liability. (runner-up understatement!). If the narrative in the press gives more credit to Devgan, I wouldn’t find it be unfair at all. That is ASSUMING this film will be a hit. Like I said about death, taxes and Abhishek Bachchan films….
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May 24, 2012 at 3:09 PM
On the Salman thing the problem is that on your reasoning a certain kind of star has a ‘virtual’ base even if it never shows up for years! I accept many of these reasons though sometimes these small center hits are greatly exaggerated in the media. In other words yes these films sold a lot more tickets than the pure gross would suggest. But they weren’t blokcbuster hits either. In fact they seem better than they were because nothing else even did that much.
On Phool aur Kaante it was very successful for sure. Essentially a top 5 hit that did 50% of the top grosser’s business that year. Guru was a top 4 grosser that had a more favorable ratio in the same sense. Incidentally (and some of us ran the numbers at the time) this film was actually more stable in smaller centers than in larger towns though it did well everywhere. So it’s not an unfavorable comparison at all. Of course there’s still a lot of other commercial success Abhishek had at the time which cannot reasonably be explained away by attributing it to everyone else for the very factors that I’ve pointed out before.
On Bol Bachchan I have no problems with the trade narrative as long as it’s honest which it isn’t. On Devgan he also had a failure in Rascals and an equally big disaster in Aakrosh. All within this same sequence. And even his hits need some adjustment for reasons of scale and so on. Is he in a vastly better position than Abhishek? of course. But that’s not the argument here.
On Abhishek we disagree on his essential skill set but again not the focus of my debate here. I just think that one cannot be imprecise when examining the records of other stars. One cannot just say that someone had a large fan base even when he didn’t have hits. In other words one could say that Abhishek always had a fan base but Bol Bachchan was the right film to tap it. Or if he does something like BUsinessman or whatever other commercial stuff he has that there was never a problem all along! How does one verify such a base in the absence of a reasonably recent box office record and/or marquee projects? So with Abhishek one can at least say that after his success in 2004 the industry has always bet big on him from true prestige filmmakers to more commercial ones. Even now he has one of the industry biggest commercial figures giving him a film with his name in the title! Salman and Devgan didn’t have this for the most part when they weren’t doing well. Devgan still reinvented himself after the late 90s or so with the Zakhm kind of deal where he got some critical attention but none of these films did anything! So to say there was some base waiting in the wings since Phool aur Kaante in 1991 is stretching things more than a little bit. And again you underrate the change these stars brought about in many ways, specially Salman. Could one ever have imagined the MPK guy doing Dabanng? Could one ever have thought the QSQT guy would do Ghajini? It defies all logic but it has happened over time. The times have changed but so have these stars and in very profound ways. And again there is always that big film that resets everything.
But to repeat an example the claim that Salman has a massive A,B,C center following and had it at every point in his career is to my mind the stuff of myth and not even close to the truth. Had what you say been the case Biwi No 1 which did very well everywhere would have done as much as some key SRK hits!
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May 24, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Saket, agreed with u. but i never mentioned guru, i mentioned yuva which was a flop.but u know if madhur bhandarkar can win 2 national awards and vidya can get it for dirty picture, i think there is no harm in devgn getting it for zakhm atleast. and also salman and devgn r different in the sense that devgn can never be clubbed in the same non-actor category of salman. since his zakhm days, there is always been some prestige associated with him-he did some ‘other’ films like the jha ones,tlobs,aakrosh
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May 24, 2012 at 3:23 PM
actually Yuva made as much as Company if not more. The media was unkind here but it was also far too kind on Company which didn’t have the Satya kind of graph even in Bombay.
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May 24, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Saurabh: Bhandarkar’s awards are the biggest jokes! He’s the most unoriginal filmmaker in BW.
It may sound like sacrilege, but I find TLOBS to be a mediocre film. I did like Devgan in Company though. He had a few good moments in HDDCS as well. But overall, am not a fan…
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May 25, 2012 at 1:28 AM
Satyam about your comment ” On the rest would disagree with the Govinda bit because the part here requires the menace to be real as well. So it’s a comedic part but it relies on the actor being plausible in this part otherwise” – is very right. I would give Amitabh’s role and performance in Khoon Paseena as an example. I am currently watching this movie (have seen 70% so far). The way Amitabh’s character has been sketched, it requires him to alternate between comedy and anger and he does full justice. Of course the film itself isn’t very interesting or noteworthy and i don’t think it is one of his well known films. I wouldn’t know much about its commercial success either. I am not a youtube person otherwise i would provided a link of a comic scene where Amitabh is spontaneously hilarious – if u have seen the movie, it is the scene where Amitabh and Rekha are getting married, a group of singers are singing and AB bursts out singing a couple of lines of the song. Another different feature of the movie is the ma -beta connection. As usual Nirupa Roy is his mother but with a slight difference. Apart from her usual rona dhona some of AB’s comic scenes are interactions with his ma
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May 25, 2012 at 9:15 AM
I’ve seen this many times! It was a success in 1977 though a comparatively lower grosser. But it was also made on a relatively small budget and has a very B grade feel to it. Vinod Khanna has a rather freaky look here! For some reason though I’ve always had a bit of a weakness for this one.
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May 25, 2012 at 5:15 AM
Satyam, i do not agree to this point of urs that Bhagat Singh had zero impact. At that time when 5 films, including bobby deol’s film,came out on the same subject, santoshi’s film easily out-classed them in every way.the film and devgn won universal acclaim for it. devgn won his 2nd national award for it- i know that even national awards do not have much credibility but they r still not the same as filmfare awards and the likes.here u r simply being too harsh on bhagat singh and dismissing it unfairly
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May 25, 2012 at 9:22 AM
But out-classing is something different. I saw it in the theater. Quite liked it. I just don’t see anyone talking about the film.
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May 24, 2012 at 3:05 PM
I’m gonna be maybe a bit harsh but I think the only reason Devgan was ever lapped up by certain serious filmmakers was that in a generation of leading “men” who looked like a bunch of pubescent boys, (and here I include all the Khans) he stood out because he’s not attractive in any traditional sense and didn’t look like he just graduated Junior High.
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May 24, 2012 at 3:22 PM
I agree with this as well.. it suggested the ‘real’ where everyone else looked plastic.
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May 25, 2012 at 1:19 AM
Hi Saurabh, I hope this response appears in the right place. “your comment – Ajay hardly has female fans” is not right. Ajay has scores of female fans right from his HDDCS role. Its just that female fans don’t tend to be vociferous on blogs. Some of the Ajay movies i have liked are HDDCS, Halla Bol, OUTIM, All the best, Dil Kya Kare etc
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May 25, 2012 at 4:45 AM
Filmbuff, it’s nice to know that u r a girl who is a devgn fan. but devgn compared to other stars has very less female fans. also by fans here i mean people who turn up for all his films irrespective of the content-like satyam does for abhishek or i do for amitabh,sanju or devgn.i am not sure if u have seen devgn’s ek hi raasta,dhanwaan,platform,hulchul,divyashakti etc (just making a guess bcos u said that u hadn’t seen khoon paseena).of course females like him in some roles but i don’t count them as fans
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May 25, 2012 at 5:02 AM
Filmbuff, btw in khoon paseena, the scene where Bachchan becomes the saviour in the wedding of one of the girls, is truly hilarious. also loved the names of bachchan (tiger) and vinod khanna (shera). btw a film where bachchan and khanna r hilarious is prakash mehra’s ‘hera-pheri’- if u have not seen it, u should definitely do so’- a much better film than khoon-pasina.the title track of khoon-paseena was some sort of an anthem- ‘khoon paseene ki jo milegi so khaayenge,nahi to yaaro hum bhookhe hi so jayenge’
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May 26, 2012 at 6:51 AM
Hi Saurab – Again i hope this comment appears in the right place
I haven’t seen any of the Ajay Devgan movies you have mentioned. Like most women i tend to avoid “maram mari” movies and I know Ajay has acted in quite a few. When i say i am a Ajay fan I mean i do tend to enjoy some of his movies. I generally like good performances – so don’t really have a fav actor as such. I rate Naseeruddin/Sanjeev Kumar/ Om Puri/ Amrish Puri/AB snr / Dharam (both for his hotness and good acting in movies like Anupama, Satyakam, Guddi etc) / Rajesh Khanna (esp his earlier movies) etc .
I think i have AB/VK’s Hera Pheri in my to watch pile. I really enjoyed AB./VK’s Parvarish. For once even the females had an enjoyable role ie both Neetu Singh and Shabana Azmi. BTW, I have been catching up with some old AB movies like Desh Premee/ Kasauti/ Do Anjaane/ Nastik etc
I have been avoiding “Sharabi” for a long time now – some how i am not inclined to watch Jaya Prada’s movies as they tend to be soppy. Plus i didn’t want to see another bewada movie like Devdas. However a friend of mine convinced me to watch this movie and has given me the DVD. He enticed me by showing me 2 good Kishore songs that i really like but had no idea that these are from sharabi. Hmmm lets see. I know this is one of Satyam’s fav movie tho!
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May 26, 2012 at 6:58 AM
Satyam/Saurab – finished watching khoon pasina. agree there are many comic scenes where AB has really done well including the wedding one u have described Saurab. AB’s performance is so good in all the contrasting scenes ie the comic ones and the more serious ones like the scene where he sends his horse home. It is not a bad movie. I also found VK’s get up a bit strange. I like tall handsome VK and i think he compliments AB well in the movies they have acted together. Have u guys seen Kudrat? Rajesh Khanna/VK/ Hema Malini movie?
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May 26, 2012 at 8:25 AM
Kudrat is my favorite reincarnation film of all time!
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May 26, 2012 at 7:49 AM
Oh girl, u have seen Kasauti- that is one of the 4 bachchan films i have not seen. Loved Do Anjaane and find it Prem Chopras’s best act. And Nastik is one of my fav. Also quite like Deshpremee.
I have seen Kudrat. Had a very goood take on re-incarnation but found the acting of Rajesh Khanna and Hema terrible. Btw if I am not wrong Kudrat is Satyam’s fav film on re-incarnation- he has written a write-up on Kudrat on this blog- a very good read.. My fav in the genre is the first film made on this topic- Mahal (stars Ashok Kumar and Madhubala)- a classic and must watch. I also quite like Sunil Dutt’s Milan. Incidentally just few yrs back Hema and Rajesh Khanna had done a re-incarnation film called as Mehbooba
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May 26, 2012 at 7:51 AM
ANd Filmgirl, u should definitely see Sharaabi- not a soppy film at all- actually is humourous at times. Mehra did not utilize the full potential of the script but still quite a good film with a superlative AB act. My fav songs from the film- Manzilein apni jagah hai and Jahaan Chaar Yaar
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May 27, 2012 at 7:52 AM
Thanks Saurab for informing me about Satyam’s post on Kudrat. Satyam, can u pls post the url?
Saurab, Rajesh Khanna was not bad in Kudrat. There is one particular scene where he really stole the show – VK says he will not hypnotise Hema again coz there is a likelihood of her dying ie not coming back to the real world. Rajesh retorts “woh tu yun heen mar rahi hai”.
I too like Kudrat – have seen it about 5 times now. The songs, locales (beautiful parts of HP), VK’s handsomeness, story and dialogues – it is quite an interesting movie.
Talking about reincarnation stories, i think Madhumati was one of the earlierst movies on this theme. Madhumati too was a very good movie esp for songs by salil choudary, vyjanthimala and the folk dances.
I will see sharabi hopefully some time soon. Yes those 2 KK songs are really good. As I said, i like those songs but didn’t know they were from sharabi.
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May 27, 2012 at 7:59 AM
Filmbuff
Havent seen kudrat but have come across some songs
This one is good-enjoy
Rd burman
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May 27, 2012 at 9:30 AM
Filmbuff, in my name there is an ‘h’ after ‘b’, u seem to be missing it LOL(seems u r a bengali). yes Madhumati is one of the earliest in the genre but ‘Mahal’ is ‘the earliest’. Actually Bimal Roy, who directed Madhumati, actually worked as an editor for Mahal under the director Kamal Amrohi, and from Mahal, Bimal got the idea to make Madhumati. i have seen both and sacrilegous it may sound but i like mahal much more.found madhumati boring despite its amazing aesthetics
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May 27, 2012 at 9:34 AM
And Filmbuff, here is the link to Satyam’s write-up on kudrat- https://satyamshot.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/karz-kudrat-reincarnation-sketches/&ved=0CAkQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEq7VN6xUTRtU6CFNuT__o6cssxUQ
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May 27, 2012 at 8:13 PM
Hi Saurabh (got ur h right this time!)
I can’t access the Satyam’s post on Kudrat. I get the following message ” Error 404 – Not Found
Please use the links or the search feature in the sidebar to find your way back to the real content! Thank you!
Satyam, can u pls post the url on Kudrat?
Saurabh, apun bong nahin hai par madrasi hain (LoL). I have heard a lot of good things about Mahal. I have seen Howrah Bridge – Ashok Kumar & Madhubala. Will look out for the DVD of Mahal on my next holiday in India.
Alex, all the songs in Kudrat are good including the one u have posted. Pls do see the movie if u get a chance. I like Parveen Sulatana’s version of Humey Tum Se Pyaar Kitna though the Kishore one is more popular. The only drawback in Kudrat is Priya Rajvansh – wooden – don’t like her at all.
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May 27, 2012 at 8:28 PM
filmbuff here is the correct link i hope, otherwise in the search-box on this blog u just type- karz kudrat reincarnation sketches- and u will get the thread- and nice to know u r from chennai- https://satyamshot.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/karz-kudrat-reincarnation-sketches/
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May 27, 2012 at 9:43 PM
Thanks Saurabh, will try the link again. My family is from TNadu. I am an all India person – born in UP, raised in diff places including UP/ Hyd as Dad was in Defence and posted all over India! I speak tamil at home but am equally fluent in hindi, telugu, understand a bit of malayalam (coz of tamil) and kannada (coz of telugu)
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May 24, 2012 at 1:36 PM
‘Ajay Devgn Ffilms’ and then ‘my chest has become blouse’ ROFL! 😀 You cannot make this stuff up.
Anyway- looks like I was wrong- this film does seem to be an equal showcase for for both Abhishek and Ajay- contrary to the impression the posters gave me.
I suppose this is going to be another mindless member of the 100 crore club.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:43 PM
Absolutely.. I’d just be pleased with a good Abhishek outing here but a lot of the stuff here makes me cringe!
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May 24, 2012 at 1:51 PM
It is sad to see how box office changes the films actors chose.
I still feel Raavan, Guru, D-6 are the best irrespective of BO.
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May 24, 2012 at 1:57 PM
agreed completely.. I might have some others on the list too. The thing though is that even after some serious failures Abhishek pushed things as far as anyone humanly could. So he’s one star to whom this decision can’t be denied. Having said that I nonetheless wish he had not let go of the Jha film even though I know that 99% it wouldn’t have worked.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:04 PM
That Jha film would not simply be a flop, it will be a disaster- an film with Arjun Rampal in the lead (though it also abhay as the other lead) cannot work. btw u may laugh but some days back i read an article where they said rampal is slowly turning out to be a very ‘bankable’ actor.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:06 PM
these days everyone is an actor…!
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May 24, 2012 at 3:59 PM
exactly and feel the same for devgan
shetty has again killed a classic certainly from the look of things(all his golmal series are rip off of uncredited old movies )
may work well in bo
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May 24, 2012 at 4:05 PM
devgan coming after massy singham and if i am correct this is first massy role for abhishek in 5 year( certainly after he had d2 and guru in sucession)
as for abhishek after attempting most of jaya bachchan’s sensibilties in recent times in script selection one can easily see ease of ab sr touch as guy in moustache (original ganga kinare wala)
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May 24, 2012 at 4:12 PM
original golmal was surprise hit but was refreshing though again a copy of old classic
golmal 2 was copy of kiran kumar old movie aaj ki taaja khabar( script by script)
golmal 3 was lame copy of khatta meeta
singham and bol bachchan are remakes and this guy has been rated on heaven
such is the standard off late
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May 24, 2012 at 1:43 PM
It is a fun and colorful trailer. It is the most entertaining movie Abhishek has been in since Dostana. Looks like a lot of fun.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:00 PM
AD is carrying forward ‘Singham’ act, AB (minus mustache) is carrying forward ‘Dostana’ act, AP & KA (Krushna Abhishek-yes that his full name & Abhishek his last name!) are carrying forward CC act & RS is carrying forward his all Golmaal & Singham act.
Contrary to title AB seems to be on sideline and didn’t have single punch line or funny line at least in trailer.
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May 24, 2012 at 2:06 PM
Satyam Ji,
Great to watch promo of Bol Bachchan, Truly Awesome.Its will be a big Hit.Always love to watch Rohit Shetty ‘s films.
Best Regards
Rupam { Xhobdo }
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May 24, 2012 at 2:07 PM
always good to see you here..
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June 2, 2012 at 10:30 PM
Satyam ji, Thanks a lot:)
” Bol bol bol…
Bol bol bol bachchan…
Sun sun sun kya bole bachchan…” Its truly beautiful song. Love to watch AB SIR, Amazing. Abhishek & Ajay Devgan rockz.
Waiting for more songs of the film….
Best Regards
Rupam { Xhobdo }
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May 24, 2012 at 2:31 PM
This promo is longer one than what shown on Star plus.
I liked every bit of trailer (except last line by Ajay). This should work big at boxoffice, Looks much better and bigger than Golmaal series, Abhishek is looking very good and so is Ajay. Both are absolutely in parallel role (and i can see some guys cringing for this reason). Action is awesome ..
This is kind of promo with much repeat value(Already seen 3-4 times) which is rarity with me …. 🙂
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May 24, 2012 at 3:29 PM
Oh, the colour!!!
Really really colourful. I did miss Abhishek as there was more of Ajay, but I think they are trying to show Ajay more to draw the crowd in? I feel Abhishek will give a very good account of himself here.
But all that hitting and kicking around was so ungolmaal like (the original golmaal)..
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May 24, 2012 at 3:32 PM
It almost seems as though when Shetty said he was remaking Golmaal, he was actually talking about his own movie from 2006.
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May 24, 2012 at 4:13 PM
I expected something less colourful, less set designs and less in your face.
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May 24, 2012 at 4:14 PM
have yet to see a rohit shetty film and seems this will continue (unless this is one of the v few that get shown on the big screens nearby)
Get a certain single screen vibe and even on trying dont find this stuff palatable
But again, there seems more than a decent market for this, and one should respect the choice of the ‘majority’ ….
ps–dont think this is AS sure a hit as being made out to be.
ps2-ajay devgun is NOT in much better space than abhishrek…
remember tez..
The key role here is of Rohit Shetty who is the actual ‘saviour’ of this enterprise apparently (if this does do well)
ps3- this is a unique prject in which both leads compete in the aspect of being non-charismatic and unattractive (their acting potential or lack of it is a different matter
ps4–purely ‘acting’ wise, ajay devgun is AS good (if not better) than any other leading actor currently…
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May 24, 2012 at 4:20 PM
in other words both look manly unlike chikna’s
some of the other industry like south in india give more prominence to this logic other way around
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May 24, 2012 at 4:25 PM
Alex, agreed with u on last 2 points. on the 2nd point it’s far from the truth- devgn is in a zillion times better position than abhishek and even after this it’s not going to change much- devgn after this has a ‘son of sardar'(south remake) lined up for diwali-another potential hit with him as the lead man- next yr he is doing ‘himmatwala remake’ with sajid khan, another blockbuster in the pipeline. he has a potential prabhu deva film.abhishek just has a dhoom 2
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May 24, 2012 at 10:12 PM
would be surprised if Son of Sardar worked in the multiplexes. Abhishek incidentally is doing the Businessman remake though don’t know when the shoot starts.
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May 25, 2012 at 2:52 AM
Satyam.. i am bit worried on ”Businessman” in hindi as the film script was strictly ok.. almost all my friends have seen and they said if it was not a Mahesh babu starter (this movie needs a mass star) it would have failed at BO. btw i live in Hyd. feel Abhi shouldn’t have taken it.
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May 25, 2012 at 9:18 AM
I too have heard this. And I agree that certain kinds of commercial films really need the respective stars to be at the top of their game in a box office sense. But Businessman won’t release before D3 in any case. Assuming he doesn’t do anything first. But yes I’ve always felt that in taking up a remake he should do something more narrative-oriented. The thing with Businessman is that this was really conceived as a bilingual pretty much. But for various reasons things got moved around.
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May 25, 2012 at 3:27 AM
Satyam,i am not so confident abt Businessman simply because RGV is at the helm here.RGV tried to go massy in Department and failed miserably and this does not bode well for Businessman.i certainly hope that it becomes a hit but wish someone like Prabhudeva would be directing it. incidentally if i am not wrong, Abhishek’s “Run” was also a remake of a Madhavan film- i loved Abhishek’s masala turn in Run and he was better than the film. Also found Vijay Raaz hilarious in his ‘kauva biryani’ act
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May 25, 2012 at 9:20 AM
Yes Run was a remake. On Businessman I was operating on the assumption that Puri was directing it and RGV producing it. The latter didn’t make this clear in his tweet but it would be odd to have Puri producing and RGV directing! But if that is the case I agree the film shouldn’t be done.
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May 26, 2012 at 7:02 AM
RGV has become mad period. I liked his Rangeela and am waiting to watch company. I did like the first Sarkar but not Sarkar Raj.
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May 24, 2012 at 4:28 PM
remakes can be done in more classy way though
satyajit ray’s last movie agantuk was presented in more innovative way as atithi kab jaoge(ironically which had devgan in lead) and very recently kahaani
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May 24, 2012 at 4:32 PM
on tezz, the movie got zero opening because there was almost zilch- the same thing had happened to abhishek’s game and khjjs. but even then devgn has had much more successful films of late- the golmaal series,singham,outaim,dil to bachcha hai,all the best,atithi tum kab jaoge,rajneeti- on acting front yes there r hardly many mainstream actors better than him- though sanjay dutt is infinitely better than him- aamir, ranbir, akshaye khanna and saif r not bad-
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May 26, 2012 at 7:04 AM
I saw singham, dil to bacha hai, athithi tum kab jaoge and rajneeti. All of them were okay. Some times the story/ direction etc make a movie interesting even if the lead actor is not such a talented person
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May 26, 2012 at 7:42 AM
If you are saying Devgan is not talented, I disagree completely- by the way dil to bachcha hai was crap and found surya way better than devgn in singham
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May 27, 2012 at 7:58 AM
No Saurab i am not saying that Ajay is not talented. I do like his movies as we have discussed. That was a general statement of mine (perhaps i shd have qualified it so). I have said it before esp in the context of Johna Abraham movies like Taxi No 9211, Virudh, Kabul Express etc
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May 24, 2012 at 4:33 PM
actually minor–im not really a keen follower of devguns career and upcoming films..
so guess, he has films maybe…
but he still lacks a certain ‘currency’ and a certain ‘significance’ that abhi shrek inherently has inspite of his plethora of flops now..
‘son of surd’–im actually doubtful
\infact im a bit concerned about most of his ‘sure shot’ hits post tez
🙂
BUt if anyone says ajay devgun cannot ‘act’ (excluding comedy)–show me a better allround actor amongst his peers…
ps–abhi shreks problem has been a failure to find his ‘niche’
He needed a certain ‘space’ like what saif now has (at the v least) and the choice of films shouldve been similar
Dont remember who pointed this out, maybe amy–that abhishrek needs a certain “saif type’ persona as a base–on top he couldve added other chunks
unfortunately, he went about into unknown adnetures without a proper base…
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May 24, 2012 at 10:15 PM
I’d take Abhishek, Aamir, Saif, Shahrukh (at least an earlier one), and perhaps a couple of others over Devgan. He has certainly become far more effective in dramatic roles than he used to be and I certainly don’t mind him. But this idea of presenting him as some thespian is something I find outrageously over the top.
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May 24, 2012 at 4:35 PM
I loved company and ajay devgun was brilliant there…
the best film in the careers of rgv and ajay devgun..
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May 24, 2012 at 4:44 PM
on rgv’s best film-it is satya without a doubt. yes company is one one of devgn’s best but i will put ‘zakhm’ ahead of it easily and ‘bhagat singh’ at par with company. actually he was brilliant in OUATIM as well and even in hddcs.
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May 24, 2012 at 10:15 PM
Did like him in Company. In fact preferred him to Vivek Oberoi here. Wouldn’t call him brilliant by any stretch though.
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May 24, 2012 at 4:40 PM
well alex agree with u that devgn has always been one of the top actors in the industry. actually apart from dutt, i don’t believe there is anyone who is much better than him. have been a huge fan of the guy- have only missed 2 films from devgn’s entire filmography- ‘son of sardar’ is a ‘golmaal like remake’ of a huge south hit- so i am confident that it will be a hit. himmatwala remake has sajid khan as a durector who has only given blockbusters-also devgn is playing a macho lead there which people love
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May 24, 2012 at 4:45 PM
hmm agree there
Its a simple rule
If someone with those looks and lack of charisma and appeal (not in a derogatory way) is surviving and is doing well—it is BUT natural that he is compensating elsewhere
and the MAIN reason is that he is an ‘actor’ at the end of the day and knows how to “act’ –period !!
ps–but thats where it starts getting complicated
Akshay with sajid khan or salman with nadiadwala rakes moolah
but devgun may not with the same sajid khan—certain things start getting ‘confounded’ in audience perception and ‘skill set” (if one can call it that..)
ps2–think the tez gross has left devgun a bit exposed (if not stark naked) lol
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May 24, 2012 at 4:55 PM
alex,on tezz i may just add-priyadarshan has himself said that he was not given creative control over the film by the producer.on himmatwala remake, u should look at the fact that the original himmatwala(incidentally also a south remake) was a complete massy film and remains jeetendra’s biggest hit.so the remake will not only be playing to devgan’s strength like singham but will also have other circus around it to help him.on son of sardar, devgn is producing and all his latest productions have been hits
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May 24, 2012 at 5:04 PM
hmm–
but inspite of all that, such a shameful gross (tez) is unworthy of a ‘frontline’ actor 🙂
there has to be a lower limit –somebody told me that she watched this movie alone in a nearly empty theatre on the second/third day (perhaps there was the ‘light’boy lol)
remembered a dirty joke on this but will resist–dont wanna ‘spoil’ innocent onez
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May 24, 2012 at 5:09 PM
and alex u r bang-on when u say that devgn keeps surviving bcos of his acting, now lemme say something here when people rightly say that there must be something right with abhishek that’s why prestigious directors cast him, same goes for devgn- he has worked with bhansali(hddcs), rituparno ghosh(raincoat), mahesh bhatt in one of his most critically acclaimed film(zakhm),vishal bharadwaj,rathnam(yuva), mahesh manjrekar.he was a fav of both jha and santoshi.priyan’s aakrosh remains a critical success
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May 24, 2012 at 5:11 PM
minor–whats this?
Nargis Fakhri dropped from ‘Khiladi 786’ for being ‘too beautiful’?
im a bit ‘angry’ with this
wth-these guys should be ‘sued’ for ‘discrimination’
I mean–for being ‘too beautiful’ and ‘too hot”
how do make an emoticon for angry or ‘annoyed”
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/bollywood/news/a383185/nargis-fakhri-dropped-from-khiladi-786-for-being-too-beautiful.html
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May 24, 2012 at 5:24 PM
need to ‘support’ nargis f in this ‘down’ phase lol
may need to give her a ‘break’ in my film as well 🙂
Nargis@NargisFakhri
“The divine has a plan, i just listen to the whispers of the universe and go with the flow. Have a wonderful day!”
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May 24, 2012 at 5:14 PM
difference is multiplex audiences which a devgan lacks(when he don’t have shetty) and single screen audience support (which ab jr lacks due to lack of massy roles….till 2004 to raavan all his movies opened well at multiplexes)
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May 24, 2012 at 5:28 PM
from 2004 to raavan all of abhishek’s films opened well at mutiplexes- a very good point rockstar though not completely correct- his drona,naach,phir milenge and umrao jaan did not open ‘well’ at multiplexes
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May 24, 2012 at 5:17 PM
something for satyam–
Rohit Shetty–Abhishrek will shock !!
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/bollywood/news/a383325/rohit-shetty-i-wanted-abhishek-bachchan-to-leave-his-baggage-behind.html
Rohit Shetty has promised Abhishek Bachchan will be seen playing against type in Bol Bachchan.
The actor takes on the role of a wrestler’s assistant in the comedy co-starring Ajay Devgn.
Shetty told The Times of India: “When I narrated the character to Abhishek, I told him he had to be completely besharam and not come with baggage. He plays a completely different character from what he’s done before.
“The scenes between Ajay and him, especially the one in which they are introduced to each other, is outstanding!
“People will be shocked to see Abhishek in this avatar. Apart from the comic capers, there are some stunning action sequences too. In fact, there’s more action in this film than in Singham.”
He continued: “Abhishek has worked hard on the action sequences. One of my favourite scenes is the hand-to-hand combat Ajay and Abhishek indulge in while fighting some goons. A glimpse of these scenes will be seen in the trailer.”
John Abraham said recently that he cannot wait to get romantic on screen with Bachchan in the sequel to their comedy Dostana.
However, Bachchan is also reportedly up for playing Hamlet in a Bollywood adaptation of the Shakespeare play.
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May 24, 2012 at 5:18 PM
btw i just missed rgv- apart from aag, both company and bhoot got very good critical acclaim. bhoot is considered as india’s finest horror film. i don’t care for awards much but devgan has 2 national awards-zakhm and tlobs(only bwood actors to have 2 or more r bachchan, naseer,mithun)-srk,aamir have none.apart from the above directors he has worked with the biggest of commercial directors-heck even his supporting and villainous acts in deewanagi,khaaki,lajja,hddcs fetched him acclaim.
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May 24, 2012 at 5:42 PM
Anyone who wishes to learn hIndi/Urdu -(like me)
This guys somewhat of a practical textbook
Like his sentence constructions that do remind u of “oh those famous” lines of yore that bachchan mouthed
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May 24, 2012 at 5:53 PM
OT,
Outlook’s latest Issue to hit stands on sunday..
http://s1-02.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/585889333.jpg?key=24483264
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May 24, 2012 at 5:59 PM
thanks much bliss for the news. i will buy it as soon as it comes
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May 24, 2012 at 10:17 PM
wow this should be fun!
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May 25, 2012 at 12:39 AM
Yayyyyyy .. have been waiting for this for weeks now 🙂
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May 24, 2012 at 5:56 PM
also i wanted to make one thing clear- we know bol bachchan will be a 100 cr hit, abhishek will get a much deserved success, it will certainly help his upcominf films but still, as Satyam puts it, it will not change the narrative at all simply because this is not a solo-lead role but clearly has 2 leads-same is the case with dhoom 2.in the same way the golmaal series blockbusters did nothing for devgn till he had 2 defining successes in OUTAIM and Singham- i believe a yash raj film can do this for abhishek
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May 24, 2012 at 9:53 PM
@saurabh – seeing your ‘lofty’ expectations and predictions for Department you shouldn’t be too quick to announce this hitting a century 😛
Anyway on the trailer it’s a typical Rohit Shetty kind of film but the action seems OTT making even Bodyguard and Rowdy Rathore action seem subtle 😀
Both Ajay and Abhishek will share similar screen space so don’t expect this to be a Dhoom 2 kind of scenario for the latter. The one outlining factor in all of Shetty’s films is the lack of chartbuster music. This film could do with a few hit numbers to really hit the very high numbers.
Ajay is on a real purple patch when he is with Shetty so expect this to do something. I think Abhi will outperform Ajay here as this is one genre which Ajay is not very comfortable in. The man is extremely versatile but in comedy he just struggles. However, if given a good role Krishna will take all the plaudits. Even in the trailer here he seems to be the one generating all the laughs (not that I laughed but you know what I mean 😀
P.S All The Best remains Rohit Shetty’s best work infact one of the best comedies in recent years. Was a laugh riot start to finish ‘just chill’ haha
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May 24, 2012 at 11:13 PM
Agreed on ATB..I don’t have stomach for rest of Shetty’s stuff except liking some parts here and there.
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May 24, 2012 at 10:21 PM
I don’t agree. It depends on how the two hero film is structured. In D2 I agree it is much harder to argue for greater or even equal credit with Aamir on board but Devgan’s a different deal as is a film which has that title and script. I don’t disagree that the solo deal is ultimately important but there are two hero films where one can walk away with more credit. In fact these days there are very few genuine two hero films or multistarrers today. Once upon a time it was quite common and there was always the competitive aspect to these things. Even otherwise success just helps. It’s not possible for Abhishek to be in the very same place as before if this one works. Also remember if Abhishek gets the projects he has in the past with failure he would surely not have a problem with success.
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May 24, 2012 at 10:31 PM
@ Satyam – I was not referring to Dhoom 3 (the one with Amir). I am alluding to the rough treatment Abhi was dealt with in Dhoom 2. I mean Hrithik took all the credit and I don’t think anyone will dispute that. To be honest anyone in that film would have struggled. Hrithik looked the part and did the part in a way only he probably could.
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May 24, 2012 at 10:38 PM
I was responding to your ‘what’s next?’ question. It is D3 in all likelihood. Actually expect a more balanced script this time around than the last time. That was too imbalanced. when you have two stars you must have each play to their strengths and then have the ‘contest’. When it’s imbalanced it’s cheating the audience. Actually I felt the film could have been the first one to do 100 crores at the time. It just wasn’t a very good film. It became part of this whole Hrithik v Abhishek narrative in the media and online but the first Dhoom was much better. And I expect D3 to be the best of the lot. Don’t think Aamir would sign on to just anything.
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May 24, 2012 at 10:48 PM
Apologies for the confusion Satyam 😛 it’s 3.48am (SLEEPPYYY)
Yeah Amir won’t have signed upto Dhoom 3 unless there was something substantial in the film/script. However, and don’t quote me anyone I have a sneaky suspicion that Amir will go ahead with Hirani’s film and SRK will take Dhoom 3 up. I don’t know where I got this idea unless it was a bad dream.
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May 24, 2012 at 11:05 PM
For a while I had doubts when there were all these mysterious delays but I don’t think that’s the case anymore. Aamir confirmed it in a recent interview. If he did leave I suspect the project would fall apart.
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May 24, 2012 at 10:51 PM
Aamir will no doubt in my mind have or has had a big input on the script. To his credit, whenever he has starred in a “multi starrer”, the other actors have gotten equal attention.
Lagaan, DCH, Mangal Pandey, RDB, 3 Idiots are all examples of Aamir in the lead but the other stars shining just as equally and in some cases more. This is why I’ve respect him, he is not a glory hog.
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May 24, 2012 at 11:03 PM
yes it’s true Aamir doesn’t have that issue.
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May 25, 2012 at 12:01 PM
Agree with you…..The 2 earlier Dhoom films made Abhishek look like a guppy 😉
I too would like him to have a damn good role because I know he can act (Guru & Yuva)
Also I’m sure that when Aamir is involved he will ensure that the script is of a good quality…..the guy always exceeds my expectation.
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May 24, 2012 at 6:19 PM
Satyam, i just remembered something. i am not trying to pull down the prospects of this but if u remember, after the major success of his 1st golmaal, shetty made a film called as Sunday (devgn,takia,warsi,irrfan) which did nothing at box-office. now admittedly film came with less hype (though not nil hype- there were 2 promotional dance numbers with tussar and esha deol which were shot later) the film did not work (again not a complete disaster,no one lost money here)
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May 25, 2012 at 1:44 AM
Saurabh, I am not surprised that Sunday was a flop coz it was a very poor remake of a telugu film called “Anuko konda oka roju” – the original was quite good and kept the audience engaged. The hindi version turned the basic premise of the movie over and turned out to be lame and rightly rejected by the audience. Sunday had a beautiful duet picturised on Ajay & Ayesha in some of the historical sites in and around Delhi which was good. BTW, I would recommend you watch this telugu movie. I believe the DVD is available with sub titles
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May 25, 2012 at 3:47 AM
Filmbuff, thanks much for the info abt Sunday. yes that ayesha-devgn duet was nice
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May 24, 2012 at 6:28 PM
again abt Sunday, Shetty himself said that bcos he had no work to do between golmaal and golmaal returns, he decided to make Sunday, and so he never expected much from the film. and i may just add that after “all the best”, ‘Sunday’ remains as Shetty’s best reviewed film-it god more positive reviews than negative- and it released in january which is not usually been a historically favourable months for films-yet amongst all the releases that month, i believe sunday fared the best
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May 24, 2012 at 7:02 PM
Tushar Kapoor had a hit in Golmaal, Abhishek Bachchan may have a hit in Bol Bachchan, the question is – so what?
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May 24, 2012 at 7:07 PM
Ha! the big difference is that tussar never played a lead there(yet the film did help him, whatever fans he has is bcos of this), where abhishek is playing one of the leads here. also the title has a bachchan in it
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May 24, 2012 at 7:13 PM
Good grief, what a dumb film this is going to be. Oh well, hope it is successful — Abhishek seems to be the only good thing about it.
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May 24, 2012 at 10:22 PM
absolutely.. but as always with Rohit Shetty things are pitched at such shrill levels one wonders why some more restraint couldn’t do the trick as well. Much as I’m an Abhishek fan and this is really the only reason for me to watch this I must say that some of the stuff in the trailer and more like it will be a ‘challenge’ to get through! Find it depressing to see the kind of stuff that is celebrated by the trade and so on. I am not against silly films but ‘some’ standards is not too much to ask for.
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May 25, 2012 at 4:04 PM
The only (slight) consolation — and it isn’t much of one — is that Abhishek has in the past elevated more than one lame or mediocre film with his presence. But since those years, Bollywood comedies have (d)evolved so far in the direction of circuses that it becomes increasingly difficult for qualities like poise, nuance, etc. to register.
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May 24, 2012 at 8:55 PM
I don’t know why, but, I sorta find it funny. “My chest has become…blouse” put a smirk on the face. Reference to Singham was nice. Seems like a Rohit Shetty film. Over the top action with cars flying about in every direction!
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May 24, 2012 at 9:39 PM
My chest has become blouse…What was that??
CRAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP….
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May 24, 2012 at 10:02 PM
well…ill only watch it because of abhishek’s different avatars. other than that i get the feeling it will be horrible. im going to stick with my prediction and say itll do around 60-70cr(domestic). 100cr would be surprising as hell. Remember there has been crap comedies that have not worked recently like Thank You, No Problem, Rascals and Desi Boyz.
btw, what is abhishek’s next release after this one??
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May 24, 2012 at 10:29 PM
most likely D3. Businessman is supposed to be in the works but I doubt it can be finished before D3. He had also talked about a home production earlier with his father, a masala deal directed by the guy who’s done some of the Idea ads. There have been rumors of an Ekta Kapoor production with action, more recently the Hamlet but at the moment Businessman I think is more likely to go before some of the others. But again there are always lots of films he’s rumored for. Remains to be seen what actually begins and first.
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May 24, 2012 at 10:37 PM
Thanks for the info. i’m guessing the sarkar prequel/sequel is no more or was that just a rumor also…
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May 24, 2012 at 10:51 PM
RGV has gone into hiding after Department….. 😉
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May 24, 2012 at 10:56 PM
On a more serious note the rumors of Dostana sequel have resurfaced so maybe that could be next. I think kjo is hedging his bets on Kat to do the film.
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May 24, 2012 at 11:04 PM
I very much doubt this is happening. there are rumors every few months. And they say the very same things. Even if it does I don’t see it as being next on the list.
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May 25, 2012 at 1:27 AM
I hope abhishek stays away from the KJo camp. nothing good can from that camp. Dostana was just bad.
I think if BB does well then D3 will be a perfect follow-up for abhishek. after that he can take that box office momentum and possibly take off. He does need another “defining” film. I hope he works with Rohan Sippy very soon. They make a GREAT combo. absolutely loved DMD and liked Bluffmaster.
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May 25, 2012 at 12:46 AM
i think it will do more than just 60-70 crores – this much amout it can easily do in its first week (considering the market, Abhishek’s BO status withstanding)
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May 25, 2012 at 1:15 AM
the market you are talking about only exists for sallu bhai in these types of films(Ready and Bodyguard). no way, in my opinion, will this film do 60-70cr in the first week. Either you are over hyping Ajay Devgn’s box office clout or under estimating Abhishek’s non existing box office clout. G3 opened at around 60cr but that was a sequel to a sequel. This is a whole new concept. ill predict a good 40ish cr opening and ending up in the range of 60-70cr. Obviously I will be pleasantly surprised if it does a lot more. We will see what happens though.
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May 25, 2012 at 4:40 AM
these days anything sells with good package. Ajay Devgn had also come after a disastrous Aakrosh to deliver a Singham that grossed 100 crores. By now, everyone is more or less aware of the Shetty brand of cinematic entertainment so in any way, the audience will turn up for it.
and 60-70 crores in week 1 for a Sallu film is an underperformer, the way he’s going. Its no big deal to have that much gross collected in the opening week. but like I said, the only thing that bothers me if Abhsihek’s recent box-office clout. that apart, i think it should do well enough
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May 25, 2012 at 5:33 AM
Completely agreed. that’s why i am confident of bol bachchan and son of sardar- both of them star people whom i like-abhi,dutt and devgn-and even though these film will be of abysmal standards, these actors do deserve the success. on that note, i wish devgn returns to doing some credible films (they need not be non-commercial)- letting go off a plum role in bhardwaj’s matru ki bijli for something as inane as SOS was a bad decision. and i wish he directs his 2nd film soon
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May 25, 2012 at 12:29 AM
3 mediocre men – shetty, devgan and abhishek – completely raping a classic from 3 genuine talents – mukherjee, dutt and palekar.
welcome to mordern bollywood. even if this movie does 150-200 cr, in real terms it will be nothing but a disgusting shameful movie that bastardized a rare classic.
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May 25, 2012 at 5:47 AM
Its not remake, Rohit shetty denies this rumor. There might be inspiration from plot of Golmaal, but even Sholay was inspiration from so many classics. Remake means when you borrow majority form original, this is not the case with BB.
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May 25, 2012 at 6:18 AM
‘Its not remake, Rohit shetty denies this rumor. There might be inspiration from plot of Golmaal, but even Sholay was inspiration from so many classics”
— kya zamana aa gaya hai.. I aint much of a Sholay fan, but taking its name in the same breath as Bol Bachcan, if only for a passing illustration is a big insult to the former
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May 25, 2012 at 6:29 AM
isn’t in one breath we say “Holy shit” ? … 🙂
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May 25, 2012 at 6:59 AM
hahaha!
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May 25, 2012 at 2:54 AM
I still feel this movie will make only around 60-70 cr..Abhi not good at bo will affect many to come to theatre. and that it a bitter truth. 😦
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May 25, 2012 at 3:05 AM
Reading comments on Abhi in youtube bol bachchan trailer feels sad! people just hate him with no reason. It has something to do with his selection of previous films which made audience uncomfortable to think, or angry on abhi not doing movies like they wanted him to be or all salman khan fans just hate him because he married Aishwarya which they started hating after salman-aishwarya broke up because suddenly many started hating bachchans after that..
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May 26, 2012 at 5:57 AM
Trust me…. They have only one reason to Hate Abhi…. and that is Aishwarya bachchan.. They are the same IDs which abuse Aishwarya on her videos…. Calling her plastic bag… Bachchan Bi@@h and wat not… I have always said.. Salman fans are fanatics.. And most of them are psychopaths… lol…
GURUKANT DESAI— “Jab duniya tumhari burai karne lage… to samjho tum aagey badh rahe ho”
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May 25, 2012 at 5:44 AM
What is happening with Bol Bachchan promo ? First time i am seeing official promo blocked. T-series official promo is blocked by fox star india . . WTF .. since yesterday this is 4th official promo which is blocked. What the hell is this .. they are blocking their own uploaded promo ?
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May 25, 2012 at 6:26 AM
Typical Rohit Shettyesque promo! 😀
It should do more than Singham for sure. Abhishek Bachchan will finally get a muft ki hit. In terms of screen presence, even Govinda’s nephew Krushna is better than insipid Abhishek. Looking forward to the film for Krushna too apart from Ajay Devgn & Asin.
Too bad Krushna doesn’t have a superstar mamu or dad. He’d have got a better deal considering the talent
he has.
Ajay Devgn strangely seemed OTT in this one. 😦
LOL at Abhishek fans who think it’s about him since it has Bachchan in its title! Whether it’s about him or not, it will be a big hit and this guy will get some respite
from his flop streak. Finally his dad won’t have to defend his film’s business on Twitter and will get more to do than sly-tweet against other stars or trade analysts. Good days for Bachchans thanks to Rohit Shetty.
Hope this film gives Abhishek saab some momentum so that he’s able to give some solo hit & doesn’t have to piggyback on other stars to get some success.
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May 25, 2012 at 6:39 AM
Hey Prateek, where were u mate these for past some days.dunno abt others but i did miss ur well thought-out comments on SJM.hope u were not pissed of with Satyam or something. anyway u should keep writing, i enjoy reading ur comments a lot
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May 25, 2012 at 8:56 AM
Prateek, why don’t you go over to the satyamev Jayate thread? LOL!
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May 25, 2012 at 9:42 AM
“Abhishek Bachchan will finally get a muft ki hit. In terms of screen presence, even Govinda’s nephew Krushna is better than insipid Abhishek”
i dont agree prateek- abhi looks fine and “in sync” here in this trailer – and it will be a 100 cr hit – his contribution shd be recognized – not a muft ki hit for sure
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May 25, 2012 at 1:40 PM
exactly much like preachy aamir who uses the fake title khan instead of being hussain( anyone aware of indian muslim caste system know how much khan and hussain means)
a guy who talk about female foeticide but abandons his love child ( ala jessica hines)
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May 25, 2012 at 1:51 PM
and neither the guy has any political connection ….neither is he connected to congressi thespian najma heptulla and maulana azad ….
a politically neutral guy on his way to acheive revolution
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May 25, 2012 at 2:01 PM
and ya aamir the holy angel has neither promoted anyone ( and he was never promoted by anyone or introduced by anyone not even his uncle)
neither imran from his day of jo jeeta wohi sikander as child artist and neither another relative with whom he made mela( another crap version of sholay) and never he promoted his other relatives like jiah khan and ali jafar
hats off to man …..
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May 25, 2012 at 9:23 AM
It’s working at my end..
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May 25, 2012 at 6:32 AM
terrible, just terrible. nuff said….
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May 25, 2012 at 9:32 AM
Bol Bachchan trailer takes Twitter by storm
Rohit Shetty’s Bol Bachchan trailer is out and has been trending on Twitter. After Golmaal and Singham’s fame, director Rohit Shetty is back with a bang in his latest comedy flick Bol Bachchan. The trailer looks very colourful with an interesting mix of action and comedy. In the two minute promo, Abhishek Bachchan and Ajay Devgn are seen in promising roles.
While Ajay Devgn shows his humorous side with his bad English in the film, Abhishek Bachchan pulls off the gay character quite convincingly. This is the second time that Abhishek will be playing a gay after Dostana (2008).
The trailer also shows Krushna Abhishek of Comedy Circus fame in a meaty role. Rohit was so impressed by his performance that he decided to give Krushna a role in Bol Bachchan.
The film, which is inspired by Amol Palekar starrer 1978 film Golmaal, is being directed by Rohit Shetty and stars Ajay Devgn, Abhishek Bachchan, Asin Thottumkal and Prachi Desai in lead roles.
Abhishek Bachchan, who is playing double role in the film, is excited that the film will hit screens on July 6.
“Back on the sets of Bol Bachchan. Few more days and it’s a wrap on the film. Releases 6th July. Excitement is becoming!,” Bachchan posted on Twitter. After his stint as an action hero in Players and Game, Bachchan will be back in comedy with Bol Bachchan after three years.
Celebs on Bol Bachchan promo
@Koimoi: Don’t miss @ajaydevgn, @juniorbachchan, Prachi Desai & Asin in the trailer of Bol Bachchan
@chitrangadasing: Great job Rohit and team RT @muvi #BolBachchan Trailer must trend now ..WHY ? .see trailer
@KomalNahta: Saw promo of Bol Bachchan. Too good, too colorful, too exciting. Seems Rohit Shetty, a genius director, will do it again this time.
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May 25, 2012 at 10:39 AM
Looking like Diwali coming early this year,excited. Waiting for the fireworks from Mr. Shetty & the Lionking
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May 25, 2012 at 11:34 AM
this is utter garbage…what a horrible OTT trailer…….I wish the audience good luck…….wtf is Ajay doing?
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May 25, 2012 at 11:48 AM
“wtf is Ajay doing?”
I guess what he was doing in Golmaal 1,2,3.
“I wish the audience good luck”
They’ll need it too after Golmaal 1,2,3.
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May 25, 2012 at 12:10 PM
lol
What I meant is that I personally like Ajay as an actor but I find his Golmaal/Shetty movies ridiculous to say the least. Shetty films are a DVD watch……watch the best bits and thats it. It’s not worth wasting your time and money at the theatre.
Ajay was fantastic in Singham…..fit the role to a T. I thought his OUATIM role was legendary and the film itself was gr8.
Recent films and roles of Devgan which I’v liked:
Singham….he played it gr8 but I had to fast forward a bit
OUATIM – cult stuff here
DTBH – nice film and played it well in a comedy
Aakrosh – good hollywood rip-off
Atithi Tum Kab Jaaoge – witty
London Dreams
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May 25, 2012 at 12:36 PM
Quite liked Aakrosh, Enjoyed Singham though some of the political commentary troubled and specially the very disturbing climax. Also having seen the original I could quite love it (though I don’t love the original either). OUATIM was pretty engaging too.
Haven’t bothered to watch his Golmaal films. Haven’t seen Atithi… either or DTBH. London Dreams wasn’t the worst film around but pretty pointless.
Wouldn’t see the current film either but for Abhishek. Even with him parts of the trailer are just very hard to digest.
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May 25, 2012 at 11:50 AM
This is heights of being ridiculous. People are now comparing Abhishek with a guy like Krushna in the film- C’mon guys, let’s get real
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May 25, 2012 at 12:03 PM
In Lacanian terms Abhishek represents a ‘symptomal knot’. Which is to say a site where the contradictions of the system (or the reigning ideology) get revealed. Or more precisely the contradictions that can otherwise exist harmoniously in a system as long as these are ‘scattered’ across different sites sometimes get ‘united’ on the same one and a ‘crisis’ erupts. One could offer all sorts of examples here from politics to culture but let’s stick to Abhishek here. And I’m going reframe my ‘thesis’ on him along the way.
Basically the aspect of Abhishek that suggests privilege and genealogy and the whole ‘royal family’ syndrome and so on is valued very much by contemporary India. In other words people are strongly class-conscious, they’re obsessed with family ‘brandnames’, they’re certainly crazy about social privilege in all its manifestations, etc etc. So here there’s no issue.
On the other hand the fact that Abhishek likes to take risks and has often presented a more cerebral image of the actor and has not been willing to simply play along in so many ways with the way the system is structured also has its admirers.
A third huge determinant is the very specific one of being Amitabh Bachchan’s son. A genealogy obsessed culture loves bloodlines (the whole industry is testament to this) but of course Amitabh Bachchan is the ‘hallowed ground’ of this industry. Hence Abhishek as the ‘crown prince’ is again in a very special position.
What then is the problem?! Why this negativity no matter what he does. The ‘stupid’ way of understanding all of this is to say he’s flopping (many others flop and don’t invite such reaction, in any case even when he had hits the negativity took a different turn) or disgracing his father (those who say this are also secretly anti-Amitabh in all sorts of ways which is to say they have an anxiety about this signature even when they might not literally be against him) or that he has poor script sense and so on.
But collectively these things once again reveal a common thread. He provokes a certain anxiety even when he’s most down and out. As for example now with Bol Bachchan. If he’s nobody and he’s never getting anywhere why do people try so very hard to argue against him?!
The deeper reason here is that Abhishek ‘unites’ those tendencies or elements that the culture celebrates in ‘separation’ from each other. In other words ironically if he truly played the privileged guy and simply did the safe films and did not fail very much no one would mind. It would fit a certain script about how the well-connected and successful really live. They get their breaks and then they’re ok. Or if he didn’t have those connections and then adopted such a path he’d be celebrated as being one of the industry’s bright lights being authentic and doing small films or whatever. Similarly if as Bachchan’s son he just followed the father’s path and made certain career choices no one would complain. The problem though is that when all of these elements are brought together there are certain inherent contradictions which get exposed. For example the generations of ‘new India’ have all been about a certain aspirational attitude, the whole individualist mantra, the get-up-and-go attitude, the ‘do-it-yourself’ thing, the sense that one must shed the constricting prisms of ‘old India’ etc. On the other hand the very same folks are also about Indian values and the deepest kind of cultural, social, political conformism. Because they are only for that limited bit of revolution (read economic liberalism) that gets them their ‘benefits’. They are not interested in overturning everything and getting everyone else their benefits too because then their own would be canceled out! What Abhishek does is he brings these two impulses together. Makes explicit what is already implicit. The people who scream about Abhishek’s privilege are otherwise defending the likes of Hrithik and Ranbir! As if that is not the very same setup. Being Bachchan’s son is special but the others are part of the same structure.
So then it becomes about ‘deserving’ it. Of course no star child has done more than Abhishek to authentically earn his stripes and not just do business as usual. But this too disturbs people. Why give away advantages that one has? And doesn’t this raise the bar higher on everyone including those who form his multiplex audience? ‘Hey I don’t have a problem understanding Maoists, what about you?’! He can’t be dismissed though or condescended to because of course he is still above most of his audience in terms of class and so on. So for those who are roughly his equals he is the ‘traitor in the system’ but he is also so for a larger upwardly mobile audience because his critique of their lifestyles cannot be ignored. The most serious ideological enemy is always the one internal to the system.
Won’t expand more on all of this as I’ve done so many times before but again the larger point is that the individual pieces are fine because ‘new India’ anyway believes in all of them. But when they’re brought together the ‘deadlocks’ if you will are exposed. You can believe contradictory things but not all at the very same time in the very same place. Abhishek makes that minimal distance hard. He is never about ‘confirming’ the hegemonic attitudes in this regard. Note here how when he attempts certain obvious genres he does not disturb people less because they sense a certain reluctance in him. The fact that he’s not entirely buying into all of it. Other actors in similar situations don’t give off that vibe. Whether in his films or off screen there is always a level of deconstruction at work, consciously or otherwise. Or at least it is seen as deconstructive by his audience. There is always some element that disturbs some bit of the multiplex base. There is never a multiplex film that satisfies every bit of that coalition the way films of some of his peers do. Which is not to say that every film is liked by everyone but that even those who don’t are not disturbed by what they see. Abhishek doing Rohit Shetty for example is not like Govinda or Akshay Kumar doing the same. The ‘signification’ changes. Here too the title is important. It’s the worst nightmare for someone like Johar to see someone like Abhishek not just do this film but then bless it with his name in such a literal sense.
In the larger context you have the Salman/Akshay/Devgan coalition arguing against the SRK/Yashraj paradigm. Aamir’s above it all in different ways. Ranbir is seen as splitting the difference between the SRK paradigm and the Aamir one. Abhishek is the one star who can go any which way and has (irrespective of the results) but he never seems completely committed to any of these coalitions. How? Well he’s certainly not part of the SRK deal and when he does attempt it in some way the result is deconstructive. However on the rare occasion that he does the other masala comedy kind of deal he is also not see as belonging to that world as completely as the other stars and once again his stance is deconstructive even here. Aamir’s is I think the model closest to him but again he goes far more in the direction of taking certain risks than Aamir. And he’s certainly not been willing like Ranbir to just split the difference. This is why there is always great uncertainty surrounding Abhishek. Movies are in some ways like political campaigns and there’s no cross-section of the audience that can definitively say he’s ‘with’ them. Actually on a related note even in small center India there’s some ambivalence about him to the degree that people rightly intuit he hasn’t completely signed onto his father’s program. This is where sometimes the grosses cannot be maximized even when the films do well. partly it’s the case that if you have Guru or a Sarkar and you follow it up with the same sort of overman stuff people eventually place you in that box. The same with other genres. But here people don’t know what his core is really about. And so even when he’s perfect in a part and the film is fine too they’re not clear whether he’s ‘with the program’ and this makes a great deal of difference. Of course he could keep doing a certain kind of genre film and eventually persuade his audiences. But he hasn’t done it so far. And here it’s not just about doing ‘different’. All of Aamir’s choices are ideologically consistent even though he does very many different genres. The same is true for a younger actor like Ranbir who’s done different types of films. There is more ideological consistency than might seem to be the case if one just looked at the films. Ranbir is very much on Johar’s side of the ideological divide. Aamir isn’t. With Abhishek there’s a lot of gray area. He’s fundamentally an enigmatic star. But of course the box office doesn’t like enigmas!
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May 27, 2012 at 11:54 AM
Excellent piece — the point about ideological enigma (perhaps even incoherence) is a good one, because Abhishek doesn’t even seem to be fully on his father’s side (in terms of endorsing the Bachchan socio-political moments, whether of the ’70s or of the ’80s or any other)…
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May 27, 2012 at 3:51 PM
thanks much..
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May 25, 2012 at 12:35 PM
This movie is going to be par for the course as far as Rohit Shetty films go. A very likely but not an assured success.
Most responses are predictable. Funny how Abhi is a game changer even in his low phase where he manages to bring out people from the wood works who are suddenly ready to pounce on Rohit Shetty’s films as garbage and such and others who are ready to proclaim Devgn as the next best thing after Chicken Tikka Masala.
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May 25, 2012 at 12:40 PM
It would be a lot of fun watching these two-inch dick people squirm uncomfortably and trying to ascribe the success to Devgn and Krishna and the spot boy and the lighting guy and everyone else in the event the film is a huge hit.
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May 25, 2012 at 1:36 PM
abhishek bachchan is the only star cum actor(among his contemporaries)who has consistently took risk instead of playing safe and for nothing producer devgan given him that much mileage because he is another bonnafide actor( infact easily the best actor among his contemporaries among 40)
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May 25, 2012 at 6:26 PM
Trailer is pretty cool……bring it on…
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May 26, 2012 at 1:22 PM
Abhishek Bachchan’s hilarious characters in Bol Bachchan
Published on Saturday, 26 May 2012 10:51
Mumbai: Rohit Shetty’s Bol Bachchan has been igniting huge buzz since the day the movie went on floors. Good media hype and promotions too have been doing as well, which add true sparkles to film’s worth. In short, the movie is quite in news and lands on the headlines. Abhishek Bachchan’s double role too is an interest factor for the masses and his fans. Since Rohit Shetty is much famous for making laugh riots, people have utter trust on him thus Bol Bachchan is being called a box office hit in advance prior to release. Ajay Devgan’s presence too grabs the attention – the man who has been the pivotal part of all Shetty’s comic capers (Golmaal series).
The movie stars Abhishek Bachchan, Ajay Devgan, Asin and Prachi Desai in main leads. One thing is certain i.e. Rohit Shetty always comes up with brilliant and innovative ideas and they aptly work on celluloid and among cinegoers. In this comic caper, Abhishek goes by his actual name in the movie. This is going to happen for the very first time and Abhishek Bachchan is much excited for it.
Rohit says that it is undoubtedly a fun idea to present Abhishek in double roles on screen. The trailer of the movie has also been released on May 24th and people liked it a lot. It created big buzz among online community and has been getting popular hugely. Abhishek is returning to comedy after 2008.
His two characters are hilarious. One characters sports a moustache wheres the other doesn’t. Bol Bachchan is the presentation of Fox Star Studios and the production of Shree Ashtavinayak Cinevision Ltd and Ajay Devgan Ffilms. The flick is slated for 6th July release all over. Let’s wait to have joys with Bol Bachchan and see how Abhishek entices us in double roles?
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May 26, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Meanwhile Raja Sen mauls it:
http://www.rediff.com/movies/slide-show/slide-show-1-the-bol-bachchan-trailer/20120525.htm
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May 26, 2012 at 1:26 PM
Abhishek Bachchan – the popular gay man in B-Town
Reena Das
Arlington Foreign Film Examiner
The first theatrical trailer of Rohit Shetty’s “Bol Bachchan” is out and making big waves on Twitter. The preview shows Abhishek Bachchan in a double-role playing the character of a gay man, his second attempt in doing so after “Dostana.”
Riding high on the success of “Singham” and “Golmaal,” Shetty is back with the much-anticipated action-comedy, this time inspired by the 1979-flick, Amol Palekar-starrer “Golmaal.” The movie features Abhshek Bachchan, Ajay Devgan, Asin and Prachi Desai.
View slideshow: Meet the faces of Bol Bachchan
“I have written ‘Bol Bachchan’ keeping Abhishek in mind,” the 39-year old director told Zoom TV.
The first look of “Bol Bachchan” is vibrant and colorful. Just like any other Rohit Shetty movie, “Bol Bachchan” has mass appeal with over-the-top dialogues and jaw-dropping action sequences.
Along with fans, eminent Bollywood personalities shared their two cents about “Bol Bachchan” on Twitter.
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The newly-married actor Riteish Deshmukh tweeted, “BOL BACHCHAN -looking super big-bro-cant wait for july 6- U look like dad (pic attached) name d film.”
The acclaimed film-critic Taran Adharsh tweeted the first look poster of the movie and said, “Rohit Shetty strikes again!”
“Saw promo of Bol Bachchan. Too good, too colorful, too exciting. Seems Rohit Shetty, a genius director, will do it again this time,” says Komal Nahta, the well-known Bollywood film trade analyst.
The proud father, Amitabh Bachchan will be featuring in the title song of the movie. The mega-star tweeted a picture titled, “Bol Bachchan with Abhishek .. fun becoming ..”
“Bol Bachchan” comes to a theater near you in July. Meanwhile, enjoy the theatrical preview given on the left.
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May 26, 2012 at 5:26 PM
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/bol-bachchan-abhishek-bachchan-fails-to-impress/261402-8-66.html
@ SATYAM…. please have a look at this furious nonsense…
The first trailer of director Rohit Shetty’s much awaited film ‘Bol Bachchan’ is out. The star cast of the film includes Ajay Devgn, Abhishek Bachchan, Prachi Desai and Asin. The trailer is quite disappointing for Abhishek Bachchan’s fans. After debacles like ‘Game’ and ‘Players’, everyone expected Abhishek Bachchan to be back with a bang.
It is surprising why Abhishek Bachchan agreed to play the second lead suddenly. Even his look in the film seems very similar to his ‘Bunty aur Bubli’ avatar. The actor who has proved himself with films like ‘Guru’, ‘Yuva’, ‘Bluffmaster’, ‘Dhoom’, ‘Dostana’, and ‘Paa’ is in desperate need of a blockbuster, and roles like this might not help him.
In 2010, his highly publicised films ‘Raavan’ and ‘Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey’ failed badly at the box office. ‘Game’ and ‘Players’ also failed to grab eyeballs. Though his performance in ‘Dum Maro Dum’ was appreciated, but it turned out to be an average grosser and far away from Rs 100 cr benchmark.
Bol Bachchan’ is said to be inspired by 1979 comedy film ‘Gol Maal’, but it hardly looks like the original. Apart from Abhishek Bachchan’s moustache act, nothing seems similar between both the films. Amol Palekar could have never imagined car chases, bomb blasts and fight sequences in ‘Gol Maal’.
Rohit Shetty’s films are usually a cocktail of action and comedy. ‘Bol Bachchan’ seems to be the next one in the series. However, there is one positive thing about ‘Bol Bachchan’. Rohit Shetty’s track record is impressive at the box office. So far, he has delivered only one definite flop in the form of ‘Sunday’. His first film ‘Zameen’ was also not a hit at the ticket window, but trade analysts have called it a break even venture.
It’s not hard to understand that Ajay Devgn would be at the helm of affairs in ‘Bol Bachchan’, simply due to his long and commercially successful association with Rohit Shetty, but this also fetches Abhishek a chance to come up with a money spinner.
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May 26, 2012 at 5:29 PM
doc shaurya–is that someones ‘review’ after seeing the film or just hate rant lol
btw shaurya–what level of specialist r u –studying or practising?
give us some knowledge brainy chap..
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May 27, 2012 at 3:27 AM
@ Alex… I m an Intern. Hopefully will start my masters in Surgery this FEB…
And yes it looks more of a Film review. This is first incidence in the history of Indian cinema when an actor has been judged on the basis of the trailer.
And people say Bachchan Bashing is a MYTH..
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May 27, 2012 at 9:42 AM
Bol Bachchan promo breaks records on Youtube
Source: Dailybhaskar.com | Last Updated 17:34(27/05/12)
Right from the time that it was announced, the expectations from Rohit Shetty’s comic caper ‘Bol Bachchan’ were enormous! Today, one day after the first official promo of the movie was launched the total online views have crossed the gigantic figure of 25 million across the globe in just a little over 24 hours.
Boasting of a magnificent cast like Ajay Devgn, Abhishek Bachchan, Asin and Prachi Desai, these humongous numbers were achieved when the trailer went viral after its launch on Thursday night. Industry folk along with audiences and fans were all praises for the trailer on social networking sites which was exactly what one expected from a Rohit Shetty movie.
The trailer boasts of hilarious gags and a number of funny sequences! The buzz around Ajay Devgn playing a pehelwan and his macho desi look in the movie has been phenomenal. Also, Abhishek’s dual characterization has also struck an instant chord with the audiences.
And of course, the trademark action sequences of a Rohit Shetty mainstream commercial film are also very prominent in the trailer. After blowing up innumerous cars in all his movies up till now, this time around the director has gone one step ahead and blown up huge buses!
With so much hype around the first trailer, one can only expect how the eagerly the audiences are waiting for the release of the film which is slated on 6th July 2012.
‘Bol Bachchan’ is presented by Fox Star Studios and is produced by Shree Ashtavinayak Cinevision Ltd along with Ajay Devgn Ffilms.
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May 27, 2012 at 11:34 AM
Note how this too proves my point. Has there been another Devgan film that has had this kind of online buzz?! This is not necessarily about box office opening because there isn’t an easy correlation between online interest and box office returns. However the point is that this is generating buzz for a specific reason. Those who make a film like Golmaal or even Singham successful at the box office aren’t necessarily the ones going crazily for the same on youtube. All kinds of films open big based on all sorts of reasons. That’s not the point here. Abhishek’s stock as a star is ‘undervalued’ in a sense. Why? Because the industry has continued to see a certain potential in him. Obviously no star can be in this state of ‘suspension’ forever but the point is that his Bol Bachchan outing speaks to a need in many audience segments that Abhishek has rarely fulfilled elsewhere. as I’ve often said before if you were in it for BnB what did you really get after this film?! The same for some other genres he was successful in. It doesn’t have to be something as lowbrow as Bol Bachchan but the point is that this ‘whiff’ of masala the film represents (even if in debased form) is something Abhishek has rarely been associated with. The genre is the kind of stuff that audiences patronize anyway, all the elements are in place but Abhishek doing it becomes something different because he doesn’t do this sort of thing otherwise. Even a Dostana operates on very non-masala terrain. And of course the huge number of hits also suggest good WOM on the trailer. These things don’t go that viral without either enough initial interest or continued interest. As I’ve been saying forever the director made certain choices for a reason (for that matter Devgan is a producer here and wasn’t on the other films he did with Shetty!). All the interviews have mostly focused on Abhishek, the media buzz has overwhelmingly surrounded his role and so on. The trailer is there for all to see. Again this ‘evidence’ wasn’t needed for anyone who wasn’t the most obtuse and/or the most partisan. The online activity around this confirms all of this once again. Note once more I’m not saying this sort of film couldn’t open big otherwise. But lots of things open big for ‘different’ reasons. Sometimes a star is one of the ‘markers’ for a big opening (Hrithik in Agneepath) and not really the essence of the same (Hrithik in Krrish). In other words no one goes to Agneepath because they think a great Hrithik turn awaits them but they go to krrish for this very reason.
I should lastly say that Devgan provides ‘safety’ here in a much more important sense than the literal one. Which is to say that for those who might like this Abhishek outing but still have doubts about the film based on previous experience with the star the Devgan-Rohit Shetty deal offers a kind of guarantee! So it’s the opposite. It’s not about going to a Devgan film with Abhishek in tow but knowing Abhishek is central here and being convinced that it’s ok to watch it! Obviously this is a two hero film. But so what?! It’s once again about who bears the symbolic weight of the film or who’s the real driver of the plot. Many might disagree with me on this. I am here to report Rohit Shetty did not! By the way note how even his anecdotes about his dad being behind the camera when AAA was being done while he’s behind it now when Abhishek is on board establishes a symmetry that was obvious all along. Bachchan’s guest appearance just confirms this entire structure. He’s not there for the usual reason but because the film is called Bol Bachchan!
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May 27, 2012 at 2:31 PM
There are about 483 comments posted in response to the official trailer. You might want to read some of them!
People certainly don’t wish to watch this movie for Abhishek!
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May 27, 2012 at 2:39 PM
Saket, ur words could not have been more true. all my friends r excited to see the film but not for abhishek. actually they r saying that if it would have starred only abhishek, there would not have been any chance of us turning up. devgan and shetty r the ones which r luring them
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May 27, 2012 at 2:47 PM
Agree saket
At this juncture, abhishreks presence seems to have a negative impact towards the movie going decision-makers ie those shelling out the moolah from their pocket
They haven’t forgotten the ‘bad experiences’ easily..
Ps–having said that, think by ‘hook or by crook’, abhishrek deserves some luck by the ‘law of averages’
Ps2- my concern is that with or without abhishrek, this looks like an earning proposition, but nowhere a ‘sure shot’ blockbuster. Golmaal 2/3 were sequels of a crazy massy sort of stuff
Wherein there were others like warsi, Tushar to give dev guns comedy support–here its still a new film..
Though if housefulls and bodyguards can succeed, why not this one…
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May 27, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Have never followed mobs!
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May 28, 2012 at 5:12 AM
@ Saket…. over 3 lakh views and 483 comments… It is not an impossibility that why 483 people out of whom about 283 are abusing abhishek… had a very clear agenda of commenting.. Agenda of degrading the prestige value of film and dissociating Abhishek from the success of film .. if it becomes a success… C’mon I m not saying I am all truth.. but neither u r…
Every shahrukh film has scores of negetive comments before its release.. Need we discuss Y is it so.. And same is the case with Salman films… Need we discuss who’s fans abuse Salman films.. We all know SRK fans and Salman fans do that to each other.
And lastly believe it or not.. its your choice… BHAI ko aishwarya nahi mili… to bhai ke fans junior ko gali dene ka kaam karna kabhi nahi band karenge… And in case some one thinks I m being racist.. I apologise for that… but chek out the list of abusers… 70% are from same religion.. I again apologise if I sound racist… But this is the truth and nothing but the truth
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May 27, 2012 at 11:57 AM
Satyam,agreed on all this but i will say that it is evident from the trailer that devgn here is no less central to the plot than abhishek. also the fact that when abhishek decided to go full-on commercial, he associated himself with this film and not any other.why? because he too knows that devgn,in a shetty film, almost always ensures a good gross.also that he shares a very good rapport with devgn ensured that devgn will not try to do stuff to hog limelight-actually devgn never does such cheap stuff
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May 27, 2012 at 2:36 PM
This is the 4th or 5th film that Shetty has directed with Devgan. This is his second film with Abhishek after Zameen. If it’s still not clear, Abhishek is the ‘outsider’ in this film; Devgan’s sitting on home turf. Literally, as he is also the producer.
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May 27, 2012 at 3:04 PM
Saket, I still long for my questions to be answered. Name me another film, just one more in the entire history of Hindi cinema where the less important guy or supposedly the ‘supporting actor’ has the title role to his credit and there’s no one else mentioned in the title! And where to add to things he also has a double ‘part’ which automatically attracts attention. One should not be too much to ask for! Find me just one comparable example.
Here’s the problem. One might disagree with my estimation of Abhishek as actor and as star (potentially or otherwise). The problem is this: the industry from Mani Rathnam and to Rohit Shetty (the entire gamut) basically agrees with me. I might be completely wrong but I am so in illustrious company. Even if one disagrees with everything I say it seems to me that there’s a long line of projects one has to explain. Why does he get that which very many more ‘box office-safe’ contemporaries of his do not seem (I’m talking since Yuva). At some point the facts become overwhelming. Even at this very moment when he is at his lowest box office point I think he could do far worse than rely on a successful team for ‘insurance’ but have the film to himself otherwise with the title and so on.
Unless one is on serious medication who walks into a film called Bol Bachchan thinking ‘hey Abhishek will have nothing to do with it’?! As for the comments why take everything so much at face value? The media, hardly friendly to Abhishek on most days, has mostly focused on the double in all the coverage so far. It’s not even been close.
As for Shetty I am just relying on all his interviews where he almost exclusively seems to talk about Abhishek. At least so far! Actually this is the 6th film Shetty is doing with Devgan (Zameen, 3 Golmaals, All the best, Singham). But this makes my point even more not yours! Because here Shetty is very much interested in the Bachchan signature! He could have made ‘Bol devgan’ or else another Golmaal with 8 guys or whatever. or he could have followed up Singham with something similar. Why this choice? No one forced him to. The Bachchans aren’t even producing this (Devgan is though!). Why does he have to take Abhishek at all? In anything?
Again it seems to me that one can disagree with my estimation of Abhishek but certain facts are so obvious it’s odd to argue about them. Of course people have for years. But my perhaps implausible proposition is that doing films with many of the top talents (prestige or commercial) means something! Perhaps it’s just me. I don’t mind it though. I’m evidently not alone. The industry keeps casting him. Not me!
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May 27, 2012 at 3:09 PM
Not arguing with u but in ‘ghajini’ villain is not exactly central. and u r forgetting shetty’s ‘sunday’
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May 27, 2012 at 3:12 PM
You can find examples of films named after central villains but you can’t find one where the supporting actor and one not apparently important to the film (just following the claim here) has the title. And note how given the ‘heritage’ here the title means a lot more than it normally would!
Again as I’ve said if I’m wrong someone should be able to come up with a title. Finding one from a century of Hindi cinema shouldn’t be that hard! And I hate to keep repeating this but the signification is so obvious here. First off Shetty could have called this film anything. Anything at all. He did what he did but then has one of the characters called Abhishek in the film. The other guy’s a Muslim. He designs a kajra re like song with father and son (of course Devgan’s a part of it too). All of this together could mean a number of things but it’s certainly not ‘hey it’s a Devgan film with Abhishek sidelined’!
On that note Devgan’s own character offers a deconstruction of his Singham outing.
As for your friends if they’re really going just for Devgan and if they really mean what they say they might be more than a little disappointed. It will be kind of hard to get through the film with so much Abhishek in it! That they might not have gone for an Abhishek solo is not somehting I have a problem believing. I’ve never argued for the box office here. But here’s the thing –a star can have a very depressed box office and nonetheless excite the audience in the right part. Salman had a depressed box office for years and didn’t get a significant initial even for Wanted but in Dabanng it all came together. This film was super on day 1. Why? Because people liked what they saw very much in the trailers. The entire past decade Salman had nothing that opened very big barring Partner where the Dhawan/Govinda combo was part of the deal. For almost a decade Salman had nothing special in box office terms whether in terms of initial or gross and then he had Dabanng. How many of your friends were going to see his films then?! These things happen. My point is not a direct comparison but to suggest that the right film can create the right effect. On devgan’s box office I’ve already said enough. That he’s way ahead of Abhishek at this point is not disputable. But he’s also not been Salman! There is still a gap between his best initials and those of the very best. Unlike some of the other top stars he’s not been getting 70-80 crores initials even with the second sequel of a hit comedy. He didn’t get the massive masala initial with Singham that some of his peers did. So Abhishek is a straw man for this argument. What has Devgan been getting on his own?! He’s done very well but he’s not in that kind of stratosphere. Sure, these things work in cumulative ways but the star does make some difference. Devgan has had many bites at the apple in recent years. He’s had a number of successes but he’s not been in that league. Why? Could he nonetheless get to those numbers with enough repetition? I don’t know! He could but then Salman could do a lot more than that looking at his trending. And so on. If Bol Bachchan opens to a big number I wouldn’t say Abhishek got it done! So I’m not delusional here but nonetheless this is the kind of part that can change perceptions overnight irrespective of who gets great credit on opening day. And where I would give him credit is that I don’t think exactly this film is possible with just any star. There has to be something there to tap into. Had Abhishek not done this film Shetty might have made it with another star (or maybe not, I don’t know) but then the weight of the film would have shifted toward Devgan. A director doesn’t construct this kind of setup with ‘nobody’!
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May 27, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Satyam, there is no doubt that these film-makers takt abhi bcos he is talented. but the same should be said abt devgn. mahesh bhatt made one of his most critically acclaimed with him. he was santoshi’s fav. he made 2 super films with rgv- bhoot and company. he has worked with rituparno ghosh, mani ratnam, mahesh manjrekar, j p dutta,bhansali,bharadwaj, prakash jha, priyadarshan- so he also deserves some credit on the same line as abhishek
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May 27, 2012 at 3:44 PM
But Devgan has never had the most prestigious film-makers as a rule and as a whole series of films. Mahesh Bhatt made Zakhm with him but it’s not as if he was so big at the time where all other stars were clamoring for the part. It’s not like Rakeysh Mehra after RDB doing D6 (and later admitting he wanted Abhishek in the part before he signed on Aamir and in fact later he still wanted him in the Siddharth part). It’s not like Rathnam doing three films in a row with Abhishek (and actually giving Abhishek the best part in Yuva.. if it wasn’t this then Abhishek did a number on Devgan, settling the talent question!). Not to deny Devgan has increased some of his prestige over the years but it’s not quite the same deal that ABhishek had in a compressed period of time. Also when we talk about prestige directors we must sometimes see what they were doing at that point in time when signed on the star. Rakeysh Mehra after Aks isn’t quite Rakeysh Mehra after RDB! So on and so forth. Finally Devgan has some good roles with directors who have not always been the most feted for one reason or another. Also one must separate roles where an actor plays a part in a prestige director’s film and plays on the other hand a true author-backed one. Bhoot doesn’t mean anything. RGV has done tons of such films with all kinds of actors. Company though does mean something (incidentally a film where RGV desperately wanted Abhishek at one point). But when you have a guy simultaneously shooting for Mehra and Rathnam don’t think this is an easy double to beat.
Again not arguing against Devgan here. I’ve never been a great fan but don’t mind him either. It’s certainly fair to mention many of the directors you have. I’d add a number of caveats but still it’s a fair list (note how many failures there are here incidentally! Even some of the successes are so at the low end of things. For all those who think Abhishek failed a lot doing different! even with HDDCS Devgan was clearly the lesser star — at that point — compared to Salman). But the terms of the debate have to be consistent. If a star is regularly cast by some of his industry’s leading figures who are also at the peak of their game when they do so I think it means something.
Anyway even I’m exhausted with all the Bol Bachchan debates. Will try to stay away from these now. LOL!
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May 27, 2012 at 3:25 PM
“Saket, I still long for my questions to be answered. Name me another film, just one more in the entire history of Hindi cinema where the less important guy or supposedly the ‘supporting actor’ has the title role to his credit and there’s no one else mentioned in the title! “-hahaha
Saket has come after a long time
Satyam-be a bit lenient with him lol
Think Saket has a goog point too and think he makes it honestly and clearly without bothering for the ‘reactions’ -think this should be encouraged .. 🙂
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May 27, 2012 at 3:32 PM
Not sure who’s discouraging him! LOL! I don’t mind the debate at all. And as in the past I’ve always told people my argument isn’t about Abhishek in the way they think. In other words it’s not a crazy fan arguing for him. My point has always been that anyone can disagree with me but the ‘evidence’ I have is something the industry provides. I didn’t sign on Abhishek for all these projects over the years! And those who make fun of his failing in so many important films nonetheless have to answer why he keeps getting them despite the failure! And here one has to separate one’s likes and dislikes from hard facts. I have never quite been able to stand Salman (though liked him in Dabanng) but the moment he had a big moment I had no issues with it. Actually I did not even have problems with Wanted. It seems to me that there ought to be a factual realm which is beyond these things. One can’t debate the facts nor can one can take both sides on an argument. There has to be some consistency. What happens typically? People say that Abhishek doing all these big films and so on (down the years) doesn’t mean anything and then the moment the films fail suddenly Abhishek is failing in big ventures. How can both be true?! If the deal was never that special to begin with what’s the ‘big’ failure all about?!
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May 27, 2012 at 3:54 PM
Actually as Satyam said Abhi is not the 1st one who is going thru such a rough phase. akshay kumar himself said in an interview that between sabse bada khiladi and jaanwar, he did 14 films which were not hits ( but we should also note that some of them like international khiladi did above average at BO)- But then no one called akshay a star those days unlike abhishek (actually srk those days made a very demeaning remark calling ‘akki and suniel shetty “fast-food heroes’)
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May 27, 2012 at 4:04 PM
This is the ‘fact’ that’s most important to me: Abhishek’s had one ‘solo’ hit in 12 years!
Ajay Devgan’s had many more and regardless of what I think of him, directors from RGV to Jha to Ghosh to Vishal Bharadwaj to Santoshi and even Rathnam have chosen him as the lead actor in their films.
Abhishek’s box office record is so poor, I’d be inclined to compare it to Ajit Agarkar’s in cricket. Agarkar played in a lot of one days (close to 200) but he’s always been the object of the Indian fan’s ridicule. Abhishek occupies the same spot in the eyes of a lot of people right now.
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May 27, 2012 at 4:08 PM
Haha Saket -good comeback..
Btw agarkar may look ‘frail’ but he had a certain wicket taking ability and produced ‘bounce’ which was unexpected from a bowler of his frame -hence got some purchase..
Not sure but his wickets tally wasnt that bad, I think (though he was costly)–maybe minor can comment
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May 27, 2012 at 4:10 PM
Agarkar’s economy rate is the issue. He took wickets not because of his ability, but because batsmen went after him; treated him like a spinner in spite of his pace!
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May 27, 2012 at 4:19 PM
Saket is right on agarkar’s economy rate(as bad as sreesanth’s) and he kept coming into the team for no reason. but there r sheer facts here-his beginning as an international cricketer (unlike abhishek) was a dream- he was the fastest bowler to reach 50 odi wickets in the world (he broke aaqib javed’s record)- until ajantha mendis broke the record. also he has a test hundred at lords. and he famously won us the adelaide test against aussies in 2003 by taking a six-wicket haul
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May 27, 2012 at 5:37 PM
Agarkar also scored 6 or 7 ducks in a row! That was enough to dispute the “all rounder” claims that were made after his debut.
I have nothing against Agarkar. It’s just that he went on to become a massive underachiever despite the early promise.
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May 27, 2012 at 6:08 PM
But that’s a different point Saket. In any case doesn’t it confirm I’m saying even more? That if your estimation of his box office record is right (and I think it’s seriously wrong for the record) isn’t it even more amazing that the industry continues to make these bets on him? Much as when you mention those directors for Devgan an even better bunch has been willing to cast Abhishek. Some of them actually consider him for every other film. RGV heads such a list by the way. But how can this factor matter for Devgan if it doesn’t for Abhishek? and if Devgan’s box office is superior (a claim which is seriously questionable.. I am unsure how many solo hits I can count for Devgan.. true blue hits.. for the 21 years of his career.. I am quite sure he doesn’t have a better ratio!) isn’t the fact that many of these named were interested in Abhishek even more remarkable?!
This is a point I was trying to make earlier. One can’t have the argument both ways. Much as depending on how ‘multistarrer’ hits are defined a number of films will have to be excluded for a number of stars. Or if one is going to include plus films that weren’t exactly solid hits again a number of Abhishek films would have to be counted. It all depends on the criterion. This is something I’ve argued for for years, not only in Abhishek’s context. A lot of times these terms are thrown out fast and loose by the media but these aren’t accurate. But again the picture you present just doesn’t square with the kinds of projects Abhishek has been getting (and got only after Yuva). Or it would be a first in Hindi film history (or any cinematic history!) for a star who had done nothing in box office terms (was also considering potentially zero in this sense) and who was also not regarded as anything special in a critical sense to nonetheless continue to amass these projects. Here one would have to side with the crazies and believe all kinds of remarkable conspiracy theories!
Here’s the better cricket analogy — what if someone kept sending Yuvraj one down or two down over Dravid or Sachin in tests? And by your analogy Abhishek is very far from even Yuvraj. In fact he isn’t even the next three batsmen Yuvraj is superior to by the very same rights! Nonetheless they keep putting him up for those key spots!
By the way I disagree on Italian Job. I think it’s a droll performance if one’s expectation is for a masala one. The problem here might have been making the Italian Job kind of deal without enough of a masala admixture (note how even Abbas-Mustaan made simply the most ambitious production of their career with him and really the least padded up with their usual ‘bad’ elements). Unlike Race (though the film looked to be like this initially it was far more plot-driven). By the way even in the US films like the Italian Job make a fraction of far more masala-laden films like Pirates and so on, even on the latter’s worst days. The james Bond films are themselves a far cry from usual thriller blockbusters despite having a lot more such elements. The point is that the Italian Job kind of format does well within limits. When you have Wahlberg doing the part there isn’t an issue. when you have a major Bollywood star do it the expectations become different (something that I did not quite realize at the time). Players in any case does not reasonably have situations where Abhishek could be other than the cerebral guy he is presented as. As one can see from Bol Bachchan he hardly seems to have an issue going over the top!
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May 27, 2012 at 6:38 PM
Players *is* a masala film. A-M added so many bollywood-only touches to the film that it was neither here nor there. In that context, Abhishek’s performance was spectacularly droll. And the most important thing, he did NOT look the part. He looked like an art film hero in a commercial (and very cheesy) setup. The box office numbers reflect the story. Nobody wants to see Abhishek Bachchan in his current ‘unathletic’ bearded look. He’s close to 35, but there are heroes in BW who are pushing 50 who happen to be in better shape. In a commercial film, which is also supposed to be “cool” it’s suicide, which is what ultimately happened to the film.
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May 27, 2012 at 9:31 PM
Tezz with Ajay Devgan did probably 50% of Players in a similar genre! The problem with Players was Abhishek’s poor run at the box office. Had he been in better shape this would have done quite well. But it didn’t have enough to get that kind of strong WOM given the low start. A lot of times it’s about where a star is in his career. Here I always appreciate Salman who when Ready was releasing said on Saregama that it was only hot because a couple of his films had worked and had it released some years earlier it would have been a different story! I’m wouldn’t say what I’m saying for Players for every film but this would have done some serious numbers with the right start. But I disagree it’s a masala film. If anything AM added hardly any masala to it barring the Johnny Lever angle which wasn’t enough. Otherwise the film sticks fairly close to the central plot.
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May 27, 2012 at 2:52 PM
Never denied Devgan was central. Amar Akbar Anthony had three guys in the title. All three were central! But one was more central than others! Of course here only one guy even has the title. On the Shetty-Devgan thing I agree in a somewhat different sense. Think Abhishek would have done this film anyway but much like Aamir in D3 there’s a certain ‘trust’ if you will with respect to Devgan. Which by the by way goes in the other direction too. Don’t believe Devgan would have done this film with exactly these parts with too many other actors and certainly not with that sort of title.
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May 27, 2012 at 2:54 PM
this is shetty’s 8th film with devgn- zameen,3 gomaals,sunday,all the best,singham and now bol bachchan
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May 27, 2012 at 3:29 PM
all said n done, I dont think I’d mind this film. If I can sit through Housefull 2 and find myself chuckling at the jokes, I’d tolerate this one as well.
the time has come to accept modern-day masala the way it is, coz comparing inema of two different time periods and then expecting Rohit Shetty / Sajid Khan brand of film-making to that of Manmohan Desai’s wont serve purpose except on forums and blogs. Agree this is the lowest possible bar for any film of any genre (might even get worse with Anees Bazmee’s next film) but believe it or not, people sit through such films and they become superhits.
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May 27, 2012 at 3:34 PM
rohit shetty is any day better than sajid. also earlier bazmi made some enjoyable films- pyaar to hona hi tha was not bad, deewangi,though a copy of primal fear,was well made and acted, i liked both no entry and welcome, and sinngh is king was bearable.but with thank u, no problem and ready he is testing my patience
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May 27, 2012 at 3:41 PM
Anees Bazmee got worse with every film. Pyar To Hona hi tha was a watchable film. I liked Deewangi and thought its first half was a fine remake of Primal Fear. Liked No Entry. Welcome was really funny in some parts.
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May 27, 2012 at 4:06 PM
I’d take Farah Khan over the likes of Shetty, Bazmee or Sajid Khan. Hardly a great director, but she’s not at the same crass level as the other three.
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May 27, 2012 at 3:44 PM
I’m perhaps the only one who didn’t mind ‘ready’
Thought it was a relatively better ‘mindless’ film not bcos it was less ‘mindless’ but bcos it was consistent and there was somewhat of a ‘flow’
Though bazmees ‘no entry’ was the ‘topper’ in this genre
Bodyguard and houseful -found them quite worse
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May 27, 2012 at 5:50 PM
The reason, if one can call it that, for my negativity towards Abhishek arises from my recent viewing of ‘Players’ — a remarkably daft film. Not that I was expecting anything better from Abbas-Mastan, but you have to see how “wannabe” this film is.
And Abhishek’s performance is spectacularly droll. Not only does he NOT look the part (zero style quotient; charisma that’s actually negative), he manages to make Mark Wahlberg look like a thespian. The comparison with Michael Caine would be most odious, so no point going there.
I also saw DMD recently and wasn’t that impressed with it either. It’s a better-than-average genre effort, but I can’t think of any superlatives to describe the film.
The problem with Abhishek is that he’s too “arty” for pure commercial ventures and not at home in pure art films. He’s best in the middle of the road films, but those films can hardly become blockbusters.
I’ve long given up hope of a serious Abhishek revival. He’s not going to become a great actor or a box office phenom/charismatic star anytime soon. Maybe Guru was his last hurrah and he’s not just cut out for pure commercial cinema. I’ve accepted that and moved on…
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May 27, 2012 at 6:07 PM
Saket, completely agree on players- it was a bad film and abhishek was hopelessly miscast.(like a geofrey boycott in a t20)- actually found players one of abbas-mustan’s weakest film(they r not auteurs but they can surely make engaging enteetaining films which r obviously ‘inspired’ from hwood)- though ‘race’ was not a great thriller by any means, it was way more entertaining than this. but i differ on dmd, a very fine film where abhishek was quite good. on that note, i find his ‘bluffmaster’ act the best
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May 27, 2012 at 6:22 PM
DMD isn’t a bad film; far from it, but I don’t see how it’s a great film. At best, it’s a ‘stylish’ thriller (it’s not “noir”) that unfortunately, lacks the hard-hitting quality of a film like LA Confidential. The story arc practically goes nowhere. There are no “wow” moments; no special/memorarble lines or even characters. In the end, it’s just got some style. Not a bad thing, but one would wish for a film in this genre to be “cool” as well.
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May 27, 2012 at 6:53 PM
DMD was a tightly made thriller, but it was more than that. The ideas behind this film made it an important work. To my mind one of the best to come out of Hindi cinema in years.
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May 27, 2012 at 8:14 PM
This is a very good review, GF. But one, I think, that gives the film far too much credit. While I agree about the visual appeal of the film, I still find it to be a rather weak effort. The film doesn’t break new ground. It’s hard to care for the characters in the film. For instance, Joki is a joke! Not only because Rana Daggubati is wooden in the role, but also the fact that his ‘presence’ is off and on. He’s not the center of the film (Kamath is, but he gets bumped off) and when he assumes the mantle, it’s out of nowhere. Not consistent, also because of Rana’s limited acting skills.
Kamath has the ‘meatiest’ role but also one that’s incomplete. His role is limited to a few action scenes (I thought they were filmed in a way to take the focus away from Abhishek’s physical frailty), mouthing a few “cool” lines and then getting bumped off. The whole suicidal-stuck-in-the-past routine is kind of old at this point. There isn’t the edginess, the slightest hint of neurotic behaviour that would make the character interesting. He’s just another cop; presented better than most films, but not “cool” enough.
The rest of the characters aren’t worth mentioning, except for Govind Namdeo, who’s quite good in the film. DMD is a film that’s like a stand-up act that doesn’t have enough punchlines. It’s not bold enough; it’s visually striking but emotionally cold. It’s a film that RGV would make if he smoked a little less of the stuff that he’s currently smoking.
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May 27, 2012 at 8:39 PM
Unfortunately the audience probably agrees with you given the film’s reception and the rather passive (which is not to say negative) reviews it got. That doesn’t change that I categorically disagree with pretty much everything you’re saying, of course. With the exception of Rana’s performance – didn’t think he was wooden though, just not as memorable as one would have liked.
I certainly see where some of the surface thriller elements may come off as cliched but I found the genre pleasures here “classical” in the best ways. Chiefly because of the invention and energy in the filmmaking, but also due to what I thought were some memorable performances by a number of actors. I just think this film, even with the praise it got from some quarters of the mainstream press, should have gotten more credit than it did. Certainly deserved more “thought” than it got.
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May 27, 2012 at 6:26 PM
whatever people argue for or against abhishek, i am curious to check him out in Bol Bachchan, which is gonna be a very important film for him. It would be a kind of make or break situation before the release of Dhoom 3. If this works with the audience and his performance’s liked, Dhoom 3 would be like a cherry on top. If not, his prestige might take severe beating (again) and Dhoom’s success would make people say how he depended upon Aamir n Yashraj to bail him out..
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May 27, 2012 at 6:56 PM
If the standard of acting is to be judged by looking at Abhishek Bachchan, or conversely, he is the one who sets the standards for ‘acting’ in BW, it’s a very scary thing!
My hypothesis is that he’s better-than-average actor who’s just not cut out for commercial roles. He’s not good looking enough; slightly plump, which is to say, out of shape and in general, not “star” material. He’s an average joe trying to make it big in a world where what he lacks constitutes the exact attributes in high demand.
It would help if he were a great actor, but that’s also not the case. His diction is faulty and he brings little imagination to his roles. His best performances have come under Mani Rathnam, which tells you that he needs good/great directors to get the best out of him. He doesn’t ‘overact’ like SRK, but he doesn’t automatically bring gravitas to a role just by his presence. In short, there are limits to his capabilities.
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May 27, 2012 at 7:09 PM
Is Abhishek Bachchan a big star because the BW directors bet on him? Or is he not a star because of his track record at the box office?
Let’s look at it in a different way. There are stock market/financial analysts who make predictions about the market and when those predictions go wrong, they refuse to admit that they were wrong! It’s the market that’s wrong, because their theory is correct.
Anyone can see that’s just absurd, but that’s how it is. The ‘market’ is never wrong. It’s a good indicator of the law of demand and supply.
Similarly, if the audience gives a thumbs down to Abhishek Bachchan, it’s not the audience that’s wrong (one could say they lack ‘taste’ but they are not wrong!), it’s the people who bet on Abhishek who are wrong. They overestimated his potential. They got caught up in the hype or whatever. The ultimate reality is that the box office does NOT indicate that Abhishek Bachchan is a bonafide star.
Ranbir Kapoor, not that I think he’s a great actor either, *is* a star. Abhishek’s got to be in the second or third rung and at the moment looks like he’s only fit for multi-starrers.
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May 27, 2012 at 9:50 PM
The problem is I don’t know of another example in the industry where people would rather waste crores again and again than admit they are wrong! It’s rather amusing by the way that for Ranbir (and he’s said this in an interview too) that Abhishek has been the model to aspire to!
Was the audience ‘wrong’ on Kaagaz ke Phool and Mera Naam Joker? I must say that’s a rather strange statement. Much as it is to say the audience might lack taste but it isn’t wrong? What does this mean?! Again what happened to the audience when for almost a decade Salman barely had any success and actually was in far worse position than Abhishek because no one was giving him the projects either. The same holds for Devgan for large periods. And this is in fact the norm. When stars fail the projects usually dry up.
And this very audience loved him in just about everything from Yuva through Guru (this very audience, this very media preferred him to SRK in KANK)! India Today placed him on the cover calling him ‘The Rising Prince’. So again there is a great deal of lack of precision to the argument. When he’s successful he’s only so in multistarrers, when big directors sign him they’re only being foolish.. so on and so forth. Yet all the same factors mean a great deal for other stars. I think the problem you run into is frankly what many run into on him. Which is that there is this ‘irrational’ part of his career. Where there are some things that simply cannot be explained unless one accepts my idea that the industry thinks precisely that he is major star material and a major talent but that his choices are holding him back (which choices in 99.9% of the cases wouldn’t have worked with anyone else, something that one can prove in a minute by looking at some of the different choices of other stars). Or else one has to rely on mutually exclusive bits of logic. One cannot put them all together.
The truth is far more simple here. Abhishek simply took too many risks too early after stardom and sometimes even what seemed safe choices turned out not to be so. The even greater problem here was that because he was often playing vastly different characters and being too sincere an actor doing so (in other words not playing star enough) he lost a certain identification with the audience. Eventually the audience just didn’t know what to expect in his films and of course hated some of the stuff. This is where different from doing regular stuff and then losing a connection with the audience. But of course that doesn’t happen. When he did Dostana people loved him. they’ll love him again in Bol Bachchan. They liked him in Paa. He got great reviews for DMD. So on and so forth. Again most of these films wouldn’t have worked with anyone. But DMD and Players would have done far better. Perhaps he was foolish to take the decisions he did. That’s a different debate. Similarly if he doesn’t do anything for you as an actor or a star that too is of course your preference. But neither point is what the debate here is about. And again one can’t use the same examples as positives for one star and dispositive for another.
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May 28, 2012 at 3:43 AM
If Ranbir aspires to be Abhishek, he couldn’t have set the bar any lower. Besides, a lot of stars say a lot of things, which don’t mean anything! How could one give credence to a quote on a TV show?
That producers have wasted crores on Abhishek is a FACT. That some still do so, can be explained in many ways, stupidity being one, but likewise people do latch on to a stock forever in the hope of it rising someday. And I think I underestimate the capacity of humans to take foolish “financial” decisions on a regular basis.
Was the audience “wrong” about Kaagaz Ke Phool? It was a flop. People didn’t like it enough. It’s now a revered classic. But here’s the tricky part. KKP was directed by Guru Dutt! In what universe is Abhishek Bachchan comparable to Guru Dutt? Take away 2 films by Mani Rathnam and he’s got virtually nothing!
Yeah, Salman was down in the dumps for a long period of time. But he still had a track record of giving solo hits with no-name producers and directors. Give Abhishek the best banner, the best director and still you’d have to pray for the film to succeed. Again, in what universe is Abhishek’s box office record comparable to Salman’s? A guy who has given one solo hit in 12 years should be compared to Salman? Or even Ajay Devgan for that matter?
The media might have preferred him in KANK but lest anyone forget, he was a supporting actor in the film. There’s a reason why he wasn’t the main lead. India Today also placed Vivek Oberoi on its cover; the media is often caught up in the “moment” and it’s in their best interest to create a sensation where none exists. Even in his best phase, Abhishek wasn’t giving the biggest grossers or the biggest openings. He always belonged to the second rung. He never was in Hrithik’s league or SRK’s or Aamir’s …
If the industry thinks Abhishek is a major star material, I can see many distributors losing their homes in the coming days!
Here’s another take on why Abhishek took too many risks. Because the bigger stars wouldn’t take them. He was the “fall-back” option. That is to say, ambitious directors who wished to make certain films needed someone. Ideally they would have preferred an Aamir or SRK or Hrithik, but because these guys weren’t available, they had to opt for Abhishek. That’s not to say I didn’t like some of these films. I still love Delhi 6. I think it’s a beautiful film, but I’m under no illusion that it’s a box office flop.
And since you quote Dostana, let me remind you that “New York” made similar kind of money with John & Neil Mukesh. I have very good reason to believe the audience doesn’t particularly care about Abhishek Bachchan. His films, even with good directors, struggle to get an audience. The easiest and the most ‘logical’ explanation is that he’s not a star. He doesn’t have “mass” appeal.
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May 28, 2012 at 9:16 AM
Here’s why the stock market analogy doesn’t hold. It’s on thing for someone already in possession of a stock to double down on it when it starts falling and quite another for new people to keep getting into the market! The precise analogy here would be a producer who lost money on Abhishek’s film and then decided to make another with him to make up for it. It wouldn’t explain anyone else doing it.
With the rest we are sort of going in circles. The problem is that once one gets to a point where any strength of Abhishek’s is turned into a weakness we are doing an ideological campaign where facts become subservient to the the latter than anything. Abhishek could have done movies with Scorsese and Spielberg that flopped and one could say at the end that he did these because no top star was willing to! or if BnB was the biggest grosser of its year one could attribute it only to the father without being forced to explain why the father wasn’t able to get a similar grosser elsewhere in that entire period though Abhishek got an equivalent or bigger one with Guru (by the way at the time only Aamir had had a comparable success in a ‘different’ film with RDB, i.e. in terms of gross, SRK or Hrithik didn’t have anything of the sort!). So the issue here is that when it’s a total flop it’s on him, when it’s not it’s always another factor that’s responsible. Or it’s about a series of abstractions like ‘people are stupid to bet on him’. One can’t quite counter all of this.
On Devgan and Salman don’t blame me, blame me the industry who refused to give these guys anything worthwhile for years and years! They completely fell below the radar! Let’s say Garv wasn’t forcing any important Bollywood director to change their minds!
But yes let’s see where the industry goes with him. I think so far precisely his weakest box office periods have revealed his strengths or at least his industry’s estimation of him.
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May 27, 2012 at 7:10 PM
Haha Saket
Lol @ droll And “He’s an average joe trying to make it big in a world where what he lacks constitutes the exact attributes in high demand.”
Actually yes–sometimes one feels that the “demands” and “expectations” one places at his behest due to being the son of amitabh ( and hubby of ash now) are perhaps too much for the fella..
But don’t probably feel that he doesn’t really have anything in him..
It’s just that it hasn’t been ‘fuelled’ or ‘activated ‘ enuf also not ‘garnished’ and served in the correct outlet yet…
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May 27, 2012 at 7:12 PM
And Saket-u should post more
Brings a certain ‘balance’ to the proceedings and also good to hear alternate (& reasonable) viewpoints
Cheers
Ps-did think he was good in DMD before in a rgv-sarkaresque moment of ‘rush of blood’, he was “killed off” by the director …
Not sure y rohan did that?
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May 27, 2012 at 7:33 PM
Talkin of ‘underperformers’
Will leave u with this somewhat ‘worrying’ news lol
Ok for all uday chopra fans (!)
Uday Chopra is all set to produce a film with Nicole Kidman.
Called Grace of Monaco, the film, will be directed by Olivier Dahan of La Vie En Rose fame, and goes on floor this fall in South of France.
The movie tells the story of efforts by the late Princess Grace of Monaco (the former Grace Kelly, played by Nicole Kidman) to make peace between her adopted country and France. Grace, just 33 years old and having just given up an acting career to become Monaco’s First Lady, maneuvered through a political minefield to resolve the situation, as detailed in the film. In the past, Nicole also starred in a beverage commercial with Arjun Rampal which was shot in Jaipur.
Gud nite folks
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May 28, 2012 at 5:46 AM
About the box office, it’s definitely not the ultimate barometer for comparing the “quality” of a film. History tells us otherwise. There are far too many great films that failed at the box office. It’d be foolish to equate box office performance with quality in a linear fashion.
But the box office does give you hard and cold facts. The audience can be faulted for having a bad taste, but you can’t argue with their choices.
There’s definitely scope for interpretation, when it comes to box office numbers, which is what any good statistician will tell anyone. The easiest thing one can do is to look for trends. They are visible; a film may fail because it’s not entertaining, but if the same star gives a dud with a pure commercial film, the red flags should go up.
Then there’s the question of measuring star value. How does one do that? By looking at initials. The first three day footfalls are solely due to star-pull AND marketing. In this time and age, people need to know about the existence of a product first and who’s behind it, next So the “initial” should give an idea about “star” value, all other things remaining the same.
This brings me to the question of Tezz and its remarkable failure at the box office. Nothing remarkable about its failure per se, but the fact that it opened so poorly. Satyam argues that it made half the amount that Players did (both films are disasters and Tezz probably cost half as much as Players or even less!) and that’s not wrong on face value. But how were both the films marketed? Were people even aware of a film called Tezz? Priyadarshan has gone on record to state that he had little control over the film beyond a point.
This is what Priyadarshan has to say, “The producers took over the film from me after I shot it. It was edited by them. And the results were there for everyone to see. So many people including critics have told me that they couldn’t follow the narration in ‘Tezz’ because of the editing.”While admitting he had no authority over the final editing Priyan says he is most upset because he has let down Ajay Devgn. Says the apologetic director, “Ajay trusted me completely. We had earlier worked in ‘Aakrosh’ and hit it off beautifully. He signed ‘Tezz’ because of me. He could’ve done any project but he chose mine instead. And this is what happens! I am deeply ashamed and embarrassed.”
Did Players have the same low key marketing campaign as Tezz? Both films are disasters, but Players still had a good marketing blitz going for it. It *still* failed and opened to poor houses. That’s the point. It wasn’t a botched up effort like Tezz and somehow the latter becomes a straw man argument to make the situation favourable for Abhishek! When Abhishek’s films don’t arrive with good marketing (KHJJS), they don’t even make 5-6 crores!
Then there’s Satyam’s argument that the audience is “confused” as to what to expect from him. My point is, the audience does NOT expect anything from him. His “solo” films tell the story. People don’t turn up because they are confused; they don’t turn up because they don’t care! There’s a huge difference.
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May 28, 2012 at 9:27 AM
“The audience can be faulted for having a bad taste, but you can’t argue with their choices. ”
Again not sure what this means! Also I am actually quite comfortable arguing with them very many times!
On the rest if Devgan is so much bigger a star why does he need a Players-like advertising campaign. And the problem with Tezz (or Aakrosh) isn’t that these did poorly but that no one showed up. Literally no one.
On the initials by the way again the problem is you’re following the media narrative a bit too much without checking the facts. Through Raavan Abhishek’s initial was fine allowing for all the risky stuff and the failures. In other words take JBJ. The media pretended this film didn’t open well but actually it did because even after falling hugely from the first Mon it made a rather significant week 1 gross which gross was then very similar to or better than certain failed Akshay projects like Tashan and CCTC when he (Akshay) was really at the peak of his success. One must measure the gross of the failures too. A film like D6 was doing as much as supposed ‘semi-hit’ like BeH. I’ve been through all this before. After Raavan Abhishek’s initial disappeared. I think it reset the clock for him in certain ways, have argued about this elsewhere. But consider how much Guzaarish did, how it opened, how much it grossed. Abhishek it the guy who kept doing this sort of deal. This isn’t rocket science. It’s absolutely true that the box office hurts you either way but it’s not as if he kept doing the BnB kind of deal or the Sarkar kind of deal and kept failing. There are at the most two projects that I can point to in this entire post-Guru phase that I think would gross more in different contexts. Which is the ultimate test here. If it’s on the star it must be shown that others would have done better. Don’t believe that can be done here.
In the final analysis my argument once again is not about how you do or do not esteem Abhishek as star or actor. My problem is on the facts. His weaknesses are his but his strengths someone else’s. Or hos perceived strengths are also actually weaknesses. Or the hard facts about other stars don’t mean much at all. So on and so forth. All of this amounts to an ideological statement.
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May 28, 2012 at 5:59 AM
Agree on every point with u Saket. And also let me put this, the so- called great directors, when they have worked with abhishek, there films haven’t even matched up critically to their previous films and r not considered great films- mani ratnam’s roja and bomabay r great films-certainly not yuva and raavan. gowarikar is known for lagaan, swades, jodha akbar- certainly not for khjjs. rakeysh mehra is known for rdb and dilli 6. rgv’s naach and sarkar films r still nowhere near satya/company
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May 28, 2012 at 7:16 AM
This is a very good point. Acclaimed directors haven’t had their best moments with Abhishek, not always anyway. I do think Delhi 6 is Rakeysh Mehra’s best film to date.
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May 28, 2012 at 7:19 AM
Saket, was just curious to know where do u hail from and which profession r u in. Also i believe u have a blog on cricket so i thought sometime it will be fun to have discussions on cricket with someone as avid a follower of the game as u
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May 28, 2012 at 9:52 AM
yes but D6 didn’t receive kinder attention from the media! Actually I think directors are often willing to take greater risks with Abhishek and/or he’s willing to go with these. In other words Aamir wouldn’t have endorsed the D6 script. He wouldn’t have done it. He did RDB. Still a risk at the time but one that he was persuaded about. And this is one of the points I’m trying to get to. One can argue about Abhishek’s choices as a pragmatic matter but according to you D6 is a beautiful film. According to me Raavan is one too. You have no greater evidence for your D6 claim than I do for Raavan. Actually some of the best Western reviews for Raavan are far better than the same on D6! If you are following only the box office and/or the media reviews then D6 is a total waste of time. Or you must argue that the film would have worked with SRK or Hrithik or someone (a proposition I’d find absurd based on Swades and Guzaarish and so on). But more importantly the audience isn’t wrong on D6 according to you. So is it a beautiful film or isn’t it? You are in an extreme minority here.
The problem is that if you had people like Abbas-Mustaan and Rohit Shetty betting on Abhishek that would be one thing. But if a guy like Mehra considered Abhishek for every one of his films post Aks, also wanted to launch Abhishek at one point, if Rathnam does three films in a row with him and all symbolically important lead parts, if RGV wants to do tons of films with him Company through the present day, so on and so forth ultimately one has to give these facts some weight. They could take many other stars for some of these ‘key’ roles which is what it’s ultimately about. There’s a difference between the Lallan part and the Vivek Oberoi one in the same film! Obviously important directors too cast mediocre actors for various reasons but not in a part like Guru or D6 or what have you. That would be more than a little ridiculous. Again the same conundrum. One cannot have it both ways. If his box office is as poor as you say it is (after Raavan I have said for a long time that things fundamentally changed for him) then it reveals even more the industry high estimation of his skill set. One cannot say ‘they’re just stupid’ to this, at least not if one wants to be serious! If one concedes that he was doing rather well for a while then there is a somewhat different argument to be made. The thing is that whichever side one falls down on there is always a set of facts that cannot be incorporated into the narrative unless one accounts for him in a more positive way. For example Saif after Omkara or Shahid Kapoor after Kaminey, these guys even after high points in certain ways didn’t start attracting the same combo of critical or commercial talents. Saif did better for a while but the moment some of these films failed (of course Omkara wasn’t much of a success either at the time) the projects dried up for him. We see this now with Ranbir but no one’s disputing that he’s doing well!
By the way still waiting for a response on Bol Bachchan — I just need one film from the history of Hindi cinema where a guy supposedly nothing or a supporting actor or whatever got the title all to himself in a two hero film! I can think of some examples where the guy with the title role got less attention (for example Omkara) but I can’t think of this kind of analogy. What possessed Shetty to construct a film with the Bachchan signature at its heart, what possessed Devgan to even produce this when he didn’t do the same for Golmaal or Singham, beats me! If you are right that is! Because Abhishek is nobody, because no one is interested in him, because no one likes him, because Shetty-Devgan were coming off Singham not to mention some of the comedies, they decided the ‘Bol Bachchan’ title logically followed! Much as it followed equally logically to give him this double part (can’t think of a film where a lead with a double doesn’t become the film’s central attraction.. male or female!). Perhaps he’s another ‘stupid’ guy as you’d have it! In an industry where the box office is everything I guess one could argue whether Abhishek’s directors really mean the nice things they say about him but they’re at least putting their money where their mouth is! LOL!
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May 28, 2012 at 10:54 AM
I’m not even making claims about D6 that ought to be universal in nature. I found D6 to be a great film. But it flopped at the box office. There’s no apparent contradiction here. D6 wouldn’t have worked with any other star, I agree, but the initial and the final gross would have been better with a bigger star (be it Hrithik, Aamir or even SRK).
Yeah, just because some important directors worked with Abhishek, he should get a free pass. Let’s forget the fact that a highly esteemed star, according to the industry, opens a film made by a prestigious director (Gowarikar) to completely empty houses. I’m amazed that anyone can actually write something about Abhishek’s star power AFTER KHJJS!
I wouldn’t know the equation that exists between Abhishek & Rohit Shetty. The latter did work with him in Zameen. Maybe they are good friends or whatever. But the point is this – because Abhishek is in Bol Bachchan, suddenly the film becomes important. Suddenly Rohit Shetty is talked about in positive light. Suddenly there are attempts to undermine Devgan’s box office pull. This is not unrelated. This is hypocrisy. Had any other star been in a Shetty film, the post script would read, yeah so this so and so star got to a 100 crores, but it doesn’t add to the star’s narrative. Bol Bachchan, apparently, will re-write BW history in a way that Abhishek Bachchan will lord over everyone else. So much so that being out of shape will be in vogue. Being mediocre will actually be the “in” thing. I can’t wait for that day to come!
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May 28, 2012 at 11:07 AM
The last paragraph here is attacking a series of straw men. Because I don’t believe I’ve made a single one of those claims! In fact I’ve said that much in the trailer makes me cringe but that I’m hoping Abhishek makes the ride somewhat enjoyable for me. I’ve said before this that I’m holding my nose as an Abhishek fan because I know he needs the hit. Not sure how much clearer I could be! Much as I also said recently that even though the Jha film on Maoists would have been 99% a big failure I wish Abhishek had not let that one go after initially agreeing. But my own sense of things is different from larger realities. As Abhishek moved into a much more commercial phase sometime back I repeated a number of times that I hope he gets enough success here to then do the balance again. Interesting films coupled with box office safety. And so on. The idea that I’m suddenly a fan of Rohit Shetty is simply wrong on factual (once again!) grounds.
On the rest yes D6 could have opened bigger and grossed more like Guzaarish (which had a big name director and Ash as well) which did 55-60% of D6 a few years after D6! This argument is going in circles but again facts keep getting in the way! Even on JA the initial was rather low, the film trended well but that’s not exactly getting the audiences in on day one (by the star)! Swades opened to a very low number right after Lagaan and at a time when SRK was otherwise doing very well. I could keep multiplying these examples. This debate isn’t really ‘about’ Abhishek for me but about the facts and consistency. And I’ve had similar debates with others also on other stars. In fact this has probably been my most consistent line of argument over all these years. That one cannot just keep playing every side of an argument with every new sentence. It is the case that people argue with me most often when it comes to ABhishek. And that’s fine. But I’ve held the same line with lots of other stars also.
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May 28, 2012 at 11:28 AM
Yeah, I’m sure the world will hear no end about Guzaarish or Tezz. The world will never hear about KHJJS, Game, Players, Drona etc.
When Hrithik fails, he gives a Guzaarish. When Lord Abhishek fails, he gives us KHJJS – a film that does not make 5 crores at the box office! I mean I’m stunned by the audacity of hope going on here.
I remember I had argued that Game wouldn’t open to more than 18-20 crores right here with Satyam. Satyam seemed to be quite nonplussed with that claim. Can dig up the thread as well. I was wrong. The whole film did not make 18 crores! Satyam argues that Players will be a disappointment if it grosses less than 90 crores. The film couldn’t cross 30! Drona came about a year after Guru – the film made about 10 crores in its entire run.
But of course, these films are not important. The only important films are Guzaarish and Tezz. Let’s add Aakrosh to the mix as well.
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May 28, 2012 at 2:21 PM
LOL, I’ve accepted I was wrong on both films. But you can’t have it both ways. This is like the Israel argument. On the one hand Israel wants to be held up on a higher pedestal as the only democracy in the Mideast. But the moment the subject turns to human rights abuses the response is ‘but see what’s happening in saudi Arabia’! They play it at both ends!
Similarly if Hrithik or Devgan or whoever is an extraordinarily bigger star than Abhishek then their disasters cannot be judged by Abhishek’s! Of course it’s another matter than Guzaarish did significantly worse than D6 or Raavan and Tezz did only as much as Game while Aakrosh did at least as badly as KHJJS. Shouldn’t the greater stars also do better with their flops. On that note the ‘disappointing’ DMD did way better than Guzaarish even at Abhishek’s lowest point.
Films flop for all sorts of reasons. What happens is that stars who become successful end up repeating the formula more often than not. Abhishek has been that rare star who walked away from the obvious relatively early. Obviously he didn’t expect D6 and Raavan and some others to flop but it would still have been easier doing BnB 1,2,3 or Dus 1,2,3 or Sarkar 1,2,3. In other words established genres where the audience would show up a minimal initial would be guaranteed even for an eventual flop. The thing is it’s not just doing the different, it’s about doing so ‘pretending’ that you’re not a star. The truth is exactly the opposite of what you think it is. Not that people don’t think he’s a star, they’re just mystified why they don’t get the star they liked in a number of films. What happened to the Sarkar or GUru guy, the BM guy or the BnB guy or whatever. In commercial cinema the audience wants to see a star act and not just an actor. In this sense all commercial cinema involves a degree of cynicism or in more precise terms playing a signature. So even across very unusual subjects the actor must be recognizably the star people otherwise know him as. A star who refuses this ‘pact’ with the audience pays the price. And this is what happened with Abhishek over time. Note what happens with Akshay. He has tons of flops, eventually these affect his initial but in the somewhat better comedy he can get his hit even after scores of flops though of course the initial and final gross is nonetheless compromised. Because in this case people recognize Akshay even in the bad effort. They just don’t like the films. With Abhishek not only did they not understand some of the films (I think an audience intuits something more is up with D6 and Raavan, they might still hate the films but they don’t exactly think this is like a bad Akshay comedy.. they think it’s ‘weird’ which actually might be worse than ‘bad’!) but beyond a point they couldn’t ‘recognize’ Abhishek either. Because when he does a film like D6 he becomes the character. Even many of the fans don’t grasp this. Rakeysh Mehra keeps saying to this day that it’s a very fine performance that people did not understand partly because he improperly changed the ending. But the real issue here is that he’s playing a character without playing the star. If a non-star actor did this there would be no issue at all. But a star comes with certain expectations. So this is a commercial problem for a star. One cannot just be sincere. And by the way this isn’t only about Hindi cinema. It happens all over the world. When star deviate from their strengths and simply play characters in interesting films (flawed works or not) there just isn’t a market for them. A film like D6 is actually a small subject and not really a commercial film at all even if one fixed some things here but because there was a post-RDB Mehra and because there was Abhishek here who had by then not only success but a feted actor it became a big thing. Note what happened recently — Mehra wanted Abhishek for the Milkha film. Abhishek didn’t agree. Eventually he zeroed in on Farhan. Now the film just doesn’t carry the same expectations. And here contrary to what you’ve said earlier it’s true that many commercial stars wouldn’t do a lot of these risky films but neither are the directors in question willing to cast anyone else either. So none of these major films were offered to other stars and then to Abhishek only after these were rejected elsewhere! No major star would have rejected D6 or Raavan, I am quite confident of this. In the former instance at least one very major star also tried to make a run for it when some issues cropped up with Abhishek and nothing came of it.
Gowariker said years ago that when Lagaan was going back and forth between Aamir and SRK he had Abhishek in mind as the only other alternative if things fell through. When Rathnam made Yuva Devgan was at that point in a way better position than Abhishek but he still gave the Lallan part to Abhishek (and this was the key part for the director because even in Tamil Vikram was originally intended for it, maddy came on later). Rathnam didn’t do three films in a row with SRK but he did three with Abhishek. Now he’s doing a Tamil film. I am willing to bet a fair bit that another Hindi venture would once again feature Abhishek. Rohit shetty did Zameen early on with Abhishek as well. Mehra wanted Samjhauta Express to launch Abhishek, wanted him for the Aamir part in RDB and then again for the Siddharth part, then he did D6, then again he wanted him for the current. In between he was thinking of a couple of other projects where too Abhishek was part of the deal. RGV wanted Abhishek in Company, in Bhoot, in Aag, in Department, and I can report there are a few others people don’t know about. There are some other examples and some other big name directors whose offers have actually not made it to the media. The point is this: is all of this just a coincidence? The evidence is overwhelming. This can’t just be explained away. One can’t say that these directors are important or interesting or whatever but suddenly lose their marbles when it comes to Abhishek or commit professional harakiri! Even if this is true what is this Pied Piper quality Abhishek has that everyone’s willing to do so?!
To be honest and for various reasons I am constrained to not say a lot more that I am aware of in terms of industry politics and decision-making and how the distributors judge these things and who says what on a lot of occasions. The real picture is dramatically different from what is presented in the media. Not just on Abhishek but most of the other stars as well.
Films flop for many reasons, ultimately the star is responsible for planning a certain kind of career arc and not a different one. I think one can make all kinds of arguments against Abhishek but there has to be some minimal consistency. One can’t range all over the place and just ignore the facts every which way.
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May 28, 2012 at 2:56 PM
Satyam, no one is doubting abhishek’s talent here but i do not ever believe that he is a true ‘star’, atleast not till now. i also wanted to say that during the entire 90’s if i remember, there r only 3 instances where a mainstream commercial star decided to go completely off-beat- srk in dil se, aamir in 1947 earth and devgn in zakhm- now who won the most plaudits amongst the 3- devgn by far. which film was the most critically acclaimed- zakhm. but sadly devgn never gets the due for taking such a chance
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May 28, 2012 at 3:38 PM
Fair enough except that Zakhm did nothing at the box office. LOBS did zilch. Omkara itself did poorly and in any case Saif got the most attention here. I could keep multiplying these examples. If actors can prosper by doing different what happened to Devgan? I’ve long said Aamir is the only exception because he knows how to pick the right scripts (though note that what this means is that Aamir doesn’t pick D6! It’s not that he makes D6 a hit!). Look at Devgan’s career. It was more or less a constant fall for him after Phool aur Kaante. None of the films worked (a plus film or two there like the early Jigar but certainly no hit.. the only solid one after his first in the entire 90s was Ishq with Aamir). There are very many releases that even Devgan fans wouldn’t be able to identify here. When he did Major saab with Bachchan he was on life support and was actually thankful for getting this opportunity. With Zakhm and some of the other stuff you mentioned he tried to resurrect himself in this critical sense. But he had hit the rock bottom of the box office. Then he got HDDCS as very much the lesser star to Salman who’d come off a great period in the late 90s with some of the DHawan films and so on. But even HDDCS didn’t really lead him to great projects or anything even if he was probably the bigger winner coming off that film. Around 2003 or so he had some plus films in a compressed period of time and things looked up for him once again except that nothing really happened. His best moment here was the Yuva casting but (and this is the fairest comparison isn’t it?!) here it became all about Lallan Singh. Again he was in the doldrums after this and fell off the radar. Once more he clawed back with the Golmaal films and then eventually some other stuff worked. Singham was his greatest triumph after Phool aur Kaante in 1991! This is what amuses me about some of the debates. people just don’t know what they’re talking about. They pick films here and there and thread a narrative. I remember being in this debate about Sunny once and people got offended at some of my claims till I listed every single thing between Betaab and the present date! Which is why this whole idea Saket has about Devgan as this great solo star is puzzling to say the least. In 21 years he has two important solo grossers in Phool aur Kaante and Singham. If you count the Golmaal circus he had one more (because the second simply collapsed after a big initial, the first was a moderate grosser). What about OUATIM? Actually it had Hashmi since some seem to consider him a great star too! But let’s forget this for a moment. the film did well, trended well but it was a far cry from being any kind of very big grosser. But now let’s look at hits he has with other stars in these 21 years. I can only think of Ishq! Tons and tons of failures, underperformers and just these absolute successes. Almost all of the critically acclaimed stuff failed. It’s rather amusing to see these fantasy narratives suddenly emerge. Incidentally I did the same with Salman’s graph once. Don’t mean this in a self-serving way but I have followed these things very closely for very long! I don’t just say things abstractly. I am certainly ‘sick’ enough to revisit a lot of this stuff as I did not too long ago with all the Sunny films and all of Devgan’s 90s films! What happens is that these claims are made somewhat loosely based on various ‘impressions’ and biases and so on. Which is fine. We all do this sometimes. But on the subject of HIndi cinema I do not operate that way! I really do know what I’m saying!
Getting back to Devgan I disagree Saurabh. He was getting credit for a while for those films. But they didn’t work and he precisely did not create the Abhishek kind of buzz for certain kinds of directors to start lining up. Just didn’t happen. And that’s not happening today either. Here’s the other thing — certain stars just don’t have that kind of prestige even when they’re successful. Mehra is not going to cast Salman in a hurry! Devgan did a lot better than many with the National Award and so on and he did get some good directors but eventually it didn’t amount to much and today he is reduced to either doing Golmaal or Southern remakes or whatever. It’s as if Bollywood best and brightest are lining up for him. This isn’t a knock on him but let’s be clear that he’s no longer the guy being offered some of the ‘interesting’ stuff. Which by the way is a fear I’ve had for Abhishek. Because I always fear too much box office success for a good star. Tomorrow if Bol Bachchan is a big one and the likes of Rohit Shetty and Abbas-Mustaan or whoever cast Abhishek in some big films and all of these were big grossers and in the trade or media started calling him a huge star I would not be happy. Because if someone I consider an interesting actor were to compromise this very thing to achieve success the point would sort of be lost! So I’ve been consistent on all of this. For me this entire Abhishek phase is something to get through. I stand by D6 or Raavan or whatever. Not particularly bothered about who agrees with me but also not unrealistic enough to recognize he needs success and whatever that entails. I just want him to be able to walk it back a bit once he does get it.
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May 28, 2012 at 6:45 AM
Satyam also points out the positive press that Abhishek received at the time when Yuva released. Yes, the narrative going around was that the “prince” had come to claim his crown. The media loves such narratives; it obviously makes good copy. (The same media, however, just about put anyone on top during Amitabh’s peak years, because he chose not to speak to them!)
That’s all fine, but was it hyperbole or based on facts? Abhishek wasn’t generating the highest initials then. He was on some kind of streak, but his grosses weren’t spectacular.
Now, the point is, if one brings up the positive press that Abhishek received during his breakout phase, why question the press coverage now? If one accepts the crown prince story from India Today, why not accept the brickbats that he received for Raavan? Why not accept the “thanda” coverage he receives currently as commensurate with his box office position? Either reject all media narratives, or use them all. One can’t be selective about these things.
I don’t care about media narratives at all. Most of it is biased commentary anyway. I also think that Abhishek’s probably a great guy – off screen, that is. A thorough gentleman perhaps, as observed from a distance. One would wish for good things to happen to him. But one should also not try to distort reality by painting a rosy picture when the opposite happens to be true.
Somehow Abhishek’s failures are not because of him. One can blame the audience, the scripts, the directors or the producer’s mother in law, but not him! Then there’s the attitude that everything’s fine with him, he just needs to get the right film. Once he takes off, he’ll somehow make history. Well, call me a sceptic, but I’m not buying that for a second. In my view, Abhishek needs a re-invention. He needs a makeover. He and anybody who looks after his career needs to see what the audience wants.
What Abhishek needs is not reassurance that everything’s all right. Everything is obviously NOT all right. He needs someone to observe (and tell him) which stars are successful and why!
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May 28, 2012 at 9:32 AM
The point on the media in 2005 was to suggest the obvious point that even a historically anti-Bachchan media found it easy to jump on the Abhishek bandwagon at the time because everything was working for him. If it wasn’t this stuff the media wouldn’t have had that sort of coverage. Incidentally he got good reviews for Dostana, Paa and DMD. In the last of these instances he got better reviews than the film. Wouldn’t argue for a sea change!
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May 28, 2012 at 6:52 AM
“Now, the point is, if one brings up the positive press that Abhishek received during his breakout phase, why question the press coverage now? If one accepts the crown prince story from India Today, why not accept the brickbats that he received for Raavan? Why not accept the “thanda” coverage he receives currently as commensurate with his box office position? Either reject all media narratives, or use them all. One can’t be selective about these things. “-well said Saket. Yes, one cannot have it both ways
Also, I must add that Abhishek at this point of time has almost zero fan- following. Why? because fans don’t see a single so-called X-factor in him which can pull them to the theatres. Simply being a decent actor is not good enough. And someone please tell to become physically fit- not saying he needs to have washboard-abs but he can certainly lose some weight. In films like Drona nad Players he looked out of shape
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May 28, 2012 at 7:37 AM
It’s as if I’m talking to myself, Saurabh! I’ve highlighted the same things over and over here. Abhishek’s not creating any buzz at the moment. And yes, I can’t stress enough — he looked so out of place in Players, it wasn’t even funny…
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May 28, 2012 at 9:59 AM
will agree that he’s not created any buzz since Raavan. Bol Bachchan though looks to change things for him. Again one can fall into some fallacious logic on these issues. Salman was creating zero buzz for close to a decade before Dabanng came. Devgan till recently was again generating zero buzz for years and years. Both Salman and Devgan in a film together even after Wanted and at least one of the Golmaals created zero buzz and a negligible gross (London Dreams). These things turn on a dime in the industry. But when it’s a solo one can say it’s only because of the star. The trouble though is that sometimes even in an obvious multistarrer one star gets more attention. In other words if Salman did Dabanng with another star in a key role he would still be attracting all the attention. But the multistarrer case could be brought against him. It would be an argument but it wouldn’t be accurate. Star fortunes can turn in all kinds of films. Abhishek came out a big winner after YUva, the others didn’t. Having said that I don’t disagree he’s had zero buzz since Raavan but I don’t read Bol Bachchan the way you do (not does Rohit Shetty evidently or for that matter devgan!).
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May 28, 2012 at 10:05 AM
Satyam, just check your mail
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May 28, 2012 at 7:19 AM
@ Saket…. over 3 lakh views and 483 comments… It is not an impossibility that why 483 people out of whom about 283 are abusing abhishek… had a very clear agenda of commenting.. Agenda of degrading the prestige value of film and dissociating Abhishek from the success of film .. if it becomes a success… C’mon I m not saying I am all truth.. but neither u r…
Every shahrukh film has scores of negetive comments before its release.. Need we discuss Y is it so.. And same is the case with Salman films… Need we discuss who’s fans abuse Salman films.. We all know SRK fans and Salman fans do that to each other.
And lastly believe it or not.. its your choice… BHAI ko aishwarya nahi mili… to bhai ke fans junior ko gali dene ka kaam karna kabhi nahi band karenge… And in case some one thinks I m being racist.. I apologise for that… but chek out the list of abusers… 70% are from same religion.. I again apologise if I sound racist… But this is the truth and nothing but the truth.
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May 28, 2012 at 7:35 AM
@ whomsoever it may concern
Have never seen people write scores of pages on failure of Actors like Abhay deol, Shahid kapoor and John abraham.
If abhishek is nothing and no one expects anything…then I think people are very generous to waste their precious time and thoughts on him.
Or does this provides a Sadistic pleasure to see a him fail.
Either people should not write anything about him or stop saying that he is nothing…. U dont waste ur divine predictions on a disaster… or do you.. or are you psychopath enough to humiliate every abhishek fan.
And if any one thinks I got personal.. Well you got personal the moment you said Abhishek was nothing
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May 28, 2012 at 12:50 PM
Speaking for myself, I don’t get any pleasure, sadistic or otherwise, in Abhishek’s failures. I feel disappointed actually.
Having said that, I can’t really “digest” the notion that Abhishek is a major star whose box office record isn’t really that different from the other major stars. I kind of respond to that.
I have the highest respect for Satyam (would be difficult to ascertain from my recent outbursts) but I don’t subscribe to his theories on Abhishek. I’m providing a counter-argument here. Impassioned, sarcastic and maybe even silly, but that’s the whole point of a discussion forum!
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May 28, 2012 at 2:38 PM
haha
doc shaurya is the new angry young man, yo cheers..
“This is like the Israel argument. On the one hand Israel wants to be held up on a higher pedestal as the only democracy in the Mideast. But the moment the subject turns to human rights abuses the response is ‘but see what’s happening in saudi Arabia’! They play it at both ends!”–hahaha
good intermingling of middle east politics and even “share market” here..
keep it up folks 🙂
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May 28, 2012 at 12:41 PM
From an older discussion:
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May 28, 2012 at 2:50 PM
So the response boils down to this:
1. Abhishek is a major star because all big directors are dying to sign him up. Box office be damned.
2. You can’t compare Abhishek’s “worst” flops with Hrithik’s worst flops. But you can compare Guzaarish with Delhi 6. By the way, one is not allowed to compare Hrithik’s or any top star’s top grossers with Abhishek’s top grossers either.
3. There are lots of things that go on in the background but they can’t be revealed.
So the conclusions I can draw here are the following:
1. Abhishek’s fans can only crow about how so and so director wants to sign him for his films. Not their fault, because there are no tangible results to talk about! Zilch, nada.
2. It’s self-explantory. How do I even attempt to compare Abhishek’s biggest solo hit with Aamir’s? How about Hrithik? What, we can’t even compare Abhishek’s films with Ra1? Seriously? How about Don2? Singham? They have to compare favorably with ZNMD, no? Ready? What about Rockstar? This is crazy! 12 years in the industry and nothing that can count as “individual” glory?
3. If things happen in the background, I’m actually aware of things that happen in the background of the previous background. But I can’t reveal those either 😦
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May 28, 2012 at 3:18 PM
1)Evidently the directors are saying ‘box office be damned’. You are possibly smarter than Mehra, Rathnam, RGV, Rohit Shetty, Abbas-Mustaan and so on in these matters.
2)Actually I’m comparing like for like. D6 has a hot shot director as does Guzaarish. Both are ‘different’ films. Guzaarish has a major female lead which is an edge. D6 to be fair had the hit soundtrack. So why aren’t these films comparable?
3)I thought I already listed all the directors who either have signed him or wanted to sign him. All this is part of the public record.
4)I count BnB as a solo hit. If it isn’t that neither are most of SRK’s hits. Let’s see — KKHH, KA, Mohabbatein, K3G, KHNH, OSO, VZ, OSO had all sorts of star appearances.. on and on..
But not sure what the debate is otherwise since my claim isn’t that Abhishek is where these other stars are ‘now’. But the BnB gross is like the KMG gross much as the Guru gross is like the RDB gross. Aren’t those high points?! And incidentally these grosses are greater than MHN or VZ!
5)Again you should decide whether Abhishek is a big star or not. If you say he isn’t why are you comparing him with hrithik or SRK at all?! If he isn’t then his own flops are not that unreasonable.
If the proposition is that D6 flops because of him why couldn’t one say that Aakrosh flops because of Devgan or Guzaarish because of Hrithik or Swades because of SRK?
I’ve been constantly repeating this point — you are constantly changing the very terms of the debate. The same set of facts mean one thing for Abhishek and something totally different for his peers. Why?
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May 28, 2012 at 3:31 PM
Good to see the ‘youthful’ and virile satyam of yore
yaaiy–satyams bak !!!! 🙂
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May 28, 2012 at 3:44 PM
I’m exhausted now… yeesh! I feel I’ve been going in circles. One of the hardest things to get across over the years in various contexts has been that it’s not about individual likes or dislikes. Those are different debates and about everyone’s personal choice. However when it’s about the ‘facts’ some consistency and rigor is required. These debates most often spring up with Abhishek but I’ve had very many important ones with SRK fans, Dilip Kumar fans, Rajesh Khanna fans, Salman fans, Sunny fans, and to a degree with Aamir fans. Even with Bachchan fans! Ultimately it’s not about who I do or do not like but about how thorough one is with respect to the archives and how fair one is willing to be with respect to the historical record and/or the facts. Again not to sound self-serving but I believe I have made the strongest claims for many stars from Rajesh Khanna to SRK to Hrithik and so on and certainly stronger than anything the partisans can come up with. Because I am simply not in a ‘war’ with the facts. Nor am I a subscriber to delusion!
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May 28, 2012 at 5:15 PM
Evidently the directors are saying ‘box office be damned’. You are possibly smarter than Mehra, Rathnam, RGV, Rohit Shetty, Abbas-Mustaan and so on in these matters.
Yep, evidently smarter because Mehra, Rathnam, RGV and Abbas Mastan are certainly counting their losses at the moment. I don’t have the background info whether they are crying tears of joy because they got a chance to work with the great Abhishek Bachchan, but they certainly deserved what they got for taking a box office jinx in their films! And yeah, I say this even though I quite enjoyed Delhi 6 and Yuva. Even Guru; Barring Yuva and Guru, I don’t see why Abhishek couldn’t be replaced by a more ‘vital’ box office star.
Actually I’m comparing like for like. D6 has a hot shot director as does Guzaarish. Both are ‘different’ films. Guzaarish has a major female lead which is an edge. D6 to be fair had the hit soundtrack. So why aren’t these films comparable?
Why isn’t Guzaarish comparable to KHJJS? Acclaimed director at the helm; a popular actress in Deepika as well. So yeah, even that comparison is valid. Why are you not prepared to go down that route? Even if one were to take Guzaarish as an abject failure, it grossed 30 crores. That’s the worst number out there for Hrithik in recent times. That’s about what Players grossed in 2012!
I count BnB as a solo hit. If it isn’t that neither are most of SRK’s hits. Let’s see — KKHH, KA, Mohabbatein, K3G, KHNH, OSO, VZ, OSO had all sorts of star appearances.. on and on..”
BnB is a solo hit? We’ve had this discussion before. Not only do I disagree, most people will tell you Dashrath Singh is the best thing about the movie. Even if it’s a ‘solo’ film, Abhishek had the weakest part. Even Rani had a stronger role! This, hopefully, is not even debatable.
But not sure what the debate is otherwise since my claim isn’t that Abhishek is where these other stars are ‘now’. But the BnB gross is like the KMG gross much as the Guru gross is like the RDB gross. Aren’t those high points?! And incidentally these grosses are greater than MHN or VZ!
Guru is no way comparable to RDB. That’s flat-out absurd. RDB made more than Guru almost 2 years earlier and trended much much better. Also, Guru’s gross isn’t better than VZ or MHN. MHN and Guru would roughly be in the same ballpark range, but not higher. VZ is certainly higher than Guru.
My contention is that Abhishek was never in the same space as Hrithik. That’s why post-Guru he got side-lined in Dhoom2. That’s why he played a side role in KANK!
Again you should decide whether Abhishek is a big star or not. If you say he isn’t why are you comparing him with hrithik or SRK at all?! If he isn’t then his own flops are not that unreasonable.
Oh I know very well that Abhishek isn’t a star, forget a big star, at the moment. Hasn’t been one in absolute terms since some years now. I’m comparing him with Hrithik or Aamir or the other top heroes to point out the disparity between your claims and reality.
If the proposition is that D6 flops because of him why couldn’t one say that Aakrosh flops because of Devgan or Guzaarish because of Hrithik or Swades because of SRK?
I’ve been constantly repeating this point — you are constantly changing the very terms of the debate. The same set of facts mean one thing for Abhishek and something totally different for his peers. Why?
I haven’t denied for a moment that Aakrosh is a flop or that Guzaarish is a flop. The respective stars need to be blamed as well, be it Hrithik or Devgan or someone else. But, these guys don’t deliver flops one after another. It’s one thing to criticize a star for a few failures, it’s totally another to bracket the star with someone who’s *only* giving box office duds. Not only duds, but duds of such magnitude that are embarrassing; On that note, yes Tezz is an embarrassing failure, but it has at least some mitigating circumstances. What’s the excuse for Players? A very expensive film, mounted on a big canvas, well promoted, and it couldn’t even cross 30 crores in collections?
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May 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM
and now might be a good time for both of us to stop going in circles! Abhishek though is counting on the industry to keep agreeing with me! Either the industry will have to get smarter or Abhishek will become a bona fide star (by your lights) in the meantime!
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May 31, 2012 at 12:24 AM
Some nitpicking..
RDB released one year earlier than Guru.
MHN was certainly lower.
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May 31, 2012 at 12:53 AM
It’s also a question of who numbers you believe. BOI had Guru at 42 crores (it was still on par with VZ at that number). BOI had it at 50. RDB was definitely ahead of Guru (though had no competition for a much longer time if I’m not mistaken), it was one of the best major metro trenders for the decade and possibly the best. Nonetheless the same ballpark give or take a few. Again IBOS I believe has it around 54, BOI around 45. MHN is in the mid-30s range. BnB around 42 (again BOI have it lower but it still matches MHN). Guru even going by BOI is way ahead of MHN. So Saket’s completely inaccurate on these numbers going by any measure.
But one of the problems here is that the numbers belie the trade narratives but of course repeated enough times the latter becomes the ether. We’ve all seen films being crazily celebrated by the trade at all ends of the gross range from 30 crores to 40 crores to 50 crores to 100 crores to whatever. The same sort of breathless writeups where if you forgot the numbers for a second you’d think that all these films were making the very same amounts. With Abhishek’s films it’s been the opposite and the narrative takes hold after a while. So very many make this sort of claim that he was never a star and so on. Of course I’ve never argued that he was ever where Hrithik was. However he did have some benchmarks that usually only A list stars meet. Hence you cannot really find lesser stars do as much as Guru’s gross, even to this day.Actually other than Aamir a case could be made that even the very top stars have arguably never met this standard. Perhaps once with hrithik for JA and once with SRK for CDI (though this had loads of tax breaks very early on in very key territories which made a huge difference to the gross.. other than this SRK had nothing and one can argue whether a sports movie can fairly be compared with either jA or Guru)..
All of this is not to deny Abhishek’s problems by any means but to suggest that all years are the same is more than a little ridiculous. Also some accounting has to be done for the kinds of films attempted. Ultimately the box office is still the bottom-line, ultimately the flops still add up which is why he got into the trouble he did and which he still hasn’t emerged from. But it seems to me that this case can be made with enough nuance and without becoming an extremist claim.
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May 31, 2012 at 1:02 AM
BOI has increased Guru by couple of crore.
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May 31, 2012 at 7:43 AM
Really?! LOL!
I have seen a number of times where they’ve reduced some other totals by a couple of crores or so just on the initial. OSO for example.
But once the immediate heat of the moment passes no one really cares. Nahata said months after the release of Raavan and when he chimed in with everyone else (that the film was a disaster) that though it was a flop it wasn’t that bad.
No one has ever read a story by and large about an Abhishek film opening well or really doing well. Because when it’s a hit it’s grudgingly accepted and the trade never quite produces that sense of a moneyspinner. Will say though that in recent years the media has diverged from this practice somewhat. Even in earlier years they would quote the likes of Nahata and Taran but would say their own stuff as well. Partly it’s because they too are selling to an audience and they like to be on the latter’s side. So BnB was called a hit by them while Nahata didn’t accept it for a few weeks and Taran kept saying it was a hit only in Bombay and Delhi (when actually the film after a couple of weeks was much more stable in small centers!). Yashraj had those impressive center by center numbers on their site and these guys who otherwise love to follow producers nonetheless kept saying the same thing. When Guru released they again pretended it was doing just about about ok and kept doing ok for a long time which is why it was a hit. More recently we saw this dichotomy for Paa (much as evidently minimally, even negligibly budgeted films like Paa find recovery harder than production behemoths like Ra One!). We’ve been through these examples before but the point is that you never get the ‘breathless’ narrative and hence that impression is not generated in the same way. In every other case all kinds of numbers are spun. here even when the numbers are there it’s not the same. So you get to a situation where if a film is a flop no one cares about the initial and they can pretend that it never opened well anyway (something belied by the numbers of many of the flops for example JBJ.. when a film is a true non-starter and then also a total flop the numbers look like Game or KHJJS not like JBJ.. which matched or exceeded Aksha Kumar flops like CCTC or Tashan.. in other words films with initials that tanked). In any case the larger point once again is that whether you’re a fan or not you still read the same stuff and succumb to the same impressions. Very few people are interested in this kind of micro-analysis! and this to a large extent explains why Abhishek had no problems for the longest time. Because he wasn’t doing the way the trade portrayed him as but nor were his peers super-successful or even close with similar subjects. Obviously eventually things kept adding up and after Raavan (the last film where he got a proper initial accounting for all things.. for for example DMD roughly did only as much as Raavan though it got way better reviews and Abhishek better ones than the film and it’s safe to say no one hated it!) the clock reset negatively. After this his initial evaporated. But according to the trade it was always like KHJJS except that the numbers tell a different story! And by the way he’s been in significant trouble since precisely because the numbers have been bad in absolute terms and by any standard. On that note (something which I mentioned at that very time) the one Abhishek film that got very kind treatment, even disproportionate to the numbers, was Dostana which was declared a hit three days or so after release. Guess why?! Ha!
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May 31, 2012 at 2:17 AM
Just wondering – if inflation is accounted for in terms of BOI discussions, why compare Guru’s gross with MHN’s when the latter released 3 years earlier? Also, MHN if I remember had broken K3G’s record to become the highest first week grosser of its time.
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May 31, 2012 at 7:52 AM
I was making a rough point there. Comparing with both VZ and MHN. But over the years I’ve compared Guru most often with RDB for the obvious reasons. But note however that sometimes these benchmarks aren’t exceeded every year despite inflation of all kinds. So in 2004 40 crores or a bit more was the high number (KMG a year earlier probably did mid40s or something) but in 2005 the biggest ones (BnB and No Entry) were still in that low 40s range. In 2006 you had a number with LRM, Krrish, and of course D2. Then it became about 70 crores if not quite the D2 85 crores or whatever. But RDB with its much lower number was still very impressive because it was a much more different film and one regarded as risky before release. Of course MP had it worked would have been on course for a 60 crore or greater total even in 2005. In any case I just intended a rough comparison and not a precise one there. Because if the claim is that Abhishek is nobody then matching a SRK high point in a very commercial film even a couple of years later ought to mean something. Much as today we see the trade celebrating 100 crore films when Aamir cleared this benchmark at the end of 2008! In fact no one even talks about 3I’s 200 crores. Because of course no other star has so far been even within striking range. Why not talk about a 200 crore club?! So there’s this dishonesty at every end.
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May 31, 2012 at 2:23 AM
I don’t think MHN broke any records..It was VZ..
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May 31, 2012 at 7:45 AM
right again.. VZ had the biggest opening number at that point.. it was crossed by MP less than a year later by a bit.
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May 31, 2012 at 2:27 AM
You are right Tony MHN did break K3G first week.
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May 30, 2012 at 4:43 PM
Sometimes when satyam reaches the level of peak WTFness,some of his own freinds speak against him.They do respect him for his wiritng skills,altho they r quite aware he hardly makes sense any time.
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May 30, 2012 at 4:52 PM
Haha
Jiggly do tell us about yourselves and your ‘other’ name(s) 🙂
Ps-like this name ‘jiggy jiggy’
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May 30, 2012 at 5:08 PM
Jiggy, Satyam’s ‘friends’ (as u call them) do not speak against ‘him’. they disagree at times but do so in a sensible manner unlike other partisan people.if u r hinting towards Saket, let me say this. I commend and thank Saket for presenting his disagrrements in such a well anaysed and sensible manner which sets an example on how to debate over stuff. i am happy that he made his points intelligently bcos it was important to show folks like u, who r not even serious while debating, on how to discuss things.
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May 30, 2012 at 5:19 PM
As opposed to who? Satyam’s detractors aren’t even worth investing any time.
It’s not about speaking against him; It’s about having a discussion. Sometimes it gets heated, but It’s a pity that my (and Satyam’s) honesty in these matters is viewed in this fashion.
The thing is, most people here (myself included) aren’t even able to think in terms of patterns (historical, cultural, socio-political) that Satyam alludes to all the time.
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May 30, 2012 at 5:25 PM
I have no shame in admitting that Satyam operates on a higher level than I do. His “context” is different; his “focus” is like the bird’s eye view of things. To get to that level, one must first learn how to fly…
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May 30, 2012 at 5:29 PM
Saket, the above comment by Jiggy was made in a way in which he used ur name (indirectly) as a stick to beat Satyam’s viewpoint. half of the stuff they say is not even worth replying to. and WTF is this ‘friend’ shit! so whoever agrees with Satyam becums his friend and one who does not is his enemy?! this is ridiculous.so by this logic, as now i am siding with Satyam, i become his friend…LOL.when these folks have nothing to argue with, they come back with such weird logic.wish satyam replies to jiggy
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May 30, 2012 at 5:40 PM
Exactly! If Satyam’s “friends” turned on him, they wouldn’t come to this site at all. The fact is, I don’t visit any site related to films apart from this one.
It’s a shame that some people use my outspokenness as a crutch to attack Satyam. I may disagree with Satyam on a lot of things (and frankly, if I didn’t, I’d be a computer-generated bot!), but that doesn’t mean that my disagreements become automatic fodder for some people who are severely bruised by Satyam’s arguments.
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May 30, 2012 at 7:27 PM
Saket, keep providing them fodder… one day they might miraculously learn a thing or two!
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May 30, 2012 at 6:20 PM
Saket,
Good to see you around but yaar peechhle do deen mein bahut bakwas kar chuke ho! Aap ko saat khoon mauf but watch out with the eighth one!
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May 30, 2012 at 6:29 PM
Hahaha– Lol @ 7 khoon maaf
Btw ‘Satyam & his friends’ Starring Satyam
Cmon Satyam- atleast in these junctures, stop watching that p.rn 😉
Ps- jiggy jiggy where aphas he/she run away-wanna play with him/her lol
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May 30, 2012 at 7:24 PM
I’m glad I have friends who can put me in my place when I need it. Which is quite often!
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May 30, 2012 at 7:26 PM
Satyam am so glad to see u bak though your p.rn took longer than we thought 😉
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May 28, 2012 at 3:02 PM
Abhishek Bachchan: The Son Never Sets
Guest Column – Shailesh Kapoor
It’s been two weeks since the release of Dum Maaro Dum (DMD), a film whose box office fate was arguably more important for its lead actor Abhishek Bachchan than for its makers. Because for AB Junior, 2010 was stuff nightmares are made of.
The much-hyped Raavan sank without a trace, netting a lifetime domestic box office of less than Rs. 29 crores. His other release of the year, Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey (where he didn’t have Mani Ratnam, AR Rahman or AishwaryaRai for support) was out of the theatres within a week, netting less than Rs. 5 crore.
Abhishek’s encounters with box office have been eminently and consistently forgettable. His biggest successes have been either multi-starrers (Dhoom, Dhoom 2, Dostana) or backed by bigger names than his own (Guru, Sarkar). No other films besides these handful ones have made any significant impact at the box office, finishing in the sub-30 crore bracket consistently. For someone with a career that’s now into its second decade, that’s an unenviable record.
DMD is set to finish in the early 30-crore bracket too. Interestingly, that will make it one of Abhishek’s biggest solo successes till date! In fact, it is set to cross the lifetime collections of the much-hyped Paa, where Junior had his father for company. In absolute terms, DMD’s performance may be below par, but when seen from the perspective of Abhishek’s poor box office track record, it is almost like a mini victory.
Box office analysts have been surprisingly dismissive of the film, almost as if they expected DMD to nett 40-50 crore over its lifetime! Now that would have made it Abhishek’s biggest film after Dhoom 2.
To understand why an Abhishek Bachchan solo film can never cross the 35 crore mark, it is important to look at a certain piece of data from our monthly star popularity research called Stars India Loves (SIL).
Since the start of SIL six months ago, Abhishek Bachchan has consistently ranked outside the top 10 male stars on popularity. His father, who has not had a consistent presence in the theatres of late, ranks no. 8, at least four ranks above his son. In the key market of Mumbai, AB Junior just about makes it to the top 20 list, lagging behind the likes of Sanjay Dutt, Sunny Deol and EmraanHashmi. His popularity is so low that today, if someone were to make a film starring Abhishek and Anushka Sharma, the latter will manage to generate more footfalls in the theatre than the former!
In such a scenario, DMD crossing the 30 crore mark is no mean achievement. Because the moment you decide to cast Abhishek Bachchan, you have to learn to live with his box office reality.
To be fair to Abhishek, he has managed to make a mark as an actor in specific films, like Yuva, Guru and even Dum Maaro Dum. But these accolades have been far and few in between, and have just not added up to give his career any significant momentum.
Anyone else with such odds stacked against him would have found it difficult to get work of the stature Abhishek continues to do. But then, we all know that: In Bollywood, the son never sets.
Shailesh Kapoor is the Co-founder & CEO of Ormax Media, a media research firm specializing in film research
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May 28, 2012 at 3:10 PM
I’ve seen this piece. It appeared for BOI. And it’s the kind of hatchet job that goes very well with BOI policies. This is a classic example of everything I’ve been saying. Do you otherwise follow BOI on the Bachchan films? Shailesh Kapoor has said some very nasty stuff about Amitabh Bachchan as well.
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May 28, 2012 at 5:23 PM
Shailesh Kapoor could be downright dishonest, but he’s not “twisting” the facts in this article. He might be exaggerating things, certainly insinuating that Abhishek gets big banners because of his connections, but he still makes a valid point. Look at Abhishek’s solo starrers. That’s the key!
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May 28, 2012 at 6:15 PM
If I don’t find a person credible I’m not interested in those moments when he ‘accidentally’ tells the truth. Why? Because when the framing is dishonest even the truth can be used like a lie. It is never about the truth in itself but the larger narrative in which it is embedded.
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May 28, 2012 at 3:10 PM
Actually if i am not wrong Saket Abhishek has only 2 solo-hits- BnB and Guru- above averge solo-grossers- Bluffmaster, DmD and Sarkar Raaj- ok we can maybe add Refugee to these 3- non-solo hits- dhoom 1 and 2, sarkaar, dostana – dus, yuva and KANK can be put as above average multistarrers. not counting Paa bcos he was in a supporting role here
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May 28, 2012 at 3:32 PM
now let’s compare devgn- solo superhit- singham. hits-PAK, jigar, dilwale, suhaag, diljale, pyaar to hona hi tha, vijaypath, company, gangajal,naajayaz,qayamat, OUTAIM. above average solo ones-jaan,itihaas,apaharan,ek hi raasta,haqeeqat, major saab.- multistarree hits- ishq,golmaal 1,2 and 3, hum dil de chuke sanam,all the best, rajneeti, kachche dhaage. multistarrer above-average grossers- hogi pyaar ki jeet, atithi tum kab jaoge, yuva, khakee, deewangi, kaal, bhoot
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May 28, 2012 at 3:40 PM
Saurabh, 95% of the films on that list aren’t hits. Some of the ones that are are successful are really average/above average types. Very many are just total and outright flops.
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May 28, 2012 at 3:46 PM
Satyam, this is what the trade circles called them back then (now i don’t know abt the ‘real’ numbers). btw which ones r flops- do not think i have mentioned flops
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May 28, 2012 at 3:59 PM
the trade circles called these films one way in the popular media and another way in the actual journals. Do you know for example that many of SRK’s key films over the last decade (say KHNH) were not called hits in Nahata’s journal? Not even close. In the media the way it works is that an average/above average film is called a hit if a star is seen as doing well and a flop is the star isn’t. Take Abhishek. In 2005 it was his year and he was doing very well off 2004. But really the only solid hits here were Dhoom and of course BnB was the big one. BM did pretty well for the kind of smaller film it was. Sarkar broke the Bombay record and did well overall, perhaps it could be called a hit looking at the RGV factor and so on but it’s not as clear cut as Dhoom or BnB. Dus had a big initial and then slowed down relatively quickly. Again the sort of grosser that is called a hit for many stars. Guru was a true blue superhit. But Dostana for example didn’t do any worse than some of those films and probably better if one factors in 26/11. SR didn’t have the fantastic start like the first Sarkar but and didn’t trend as well either but it was certainly a safe or even somewhat profitable venture. Paa was extraordinarily profitable even if the trade pretended otherwise (the media called it a hit). DMD was ok, disappointing in that a bigger star was definitely expected but no one lost money here. In fairness the comparison is not exact because in ’05 all his films were opening big irrespective of how these eventually did but the point is that some of these later films would have been treated the same way in an earlier cluster.
Here’s the thing — standards have been greatly cheapened since the end of the 90s. 85-90% of all films that are called ‘hits’ are not really so by any reasonable measure. The trade says anything in the popular media. The exceptions are invariably the Aamir films that always trend well. Otherwise these days it’s become just about a big opening. That’s not how hits are defined anywhere. Singham was a true blue hit, the rare 100 crore grosser that trended very well (of course it didn’t open anywhere close to some of the others. RNBDJ trended very well, again off a lower start, OSO trended well. These days just doubling the gross after week 1 seems pretty good. But films like BnB and some of the hrithik/Filmkraft hits did a lot better than this as did some of the older SRK films. But again too many examples to get into. Do you know that even HDDCS wasn’t an all India hit?! It did well in some key metros. It struggled quite a bit in the North. Bhansali even edited the film in certain centers. It was a Bombay/South coalition for this film for the most part with some other important metros thrown in. It was sold expensively. It certainly wasn’t a solid hit on every criterion. But things have degenerated drastically even since then. Today you open a film big enough and people say it’s a hit. Today it’s a political game. The ground realities of films and stars and so on are just completely different from the way the trade projects them. So yes there have been hits over the past decade. Just very few that could be called so by any estimation and Aamir is the only star for whom there is no doubt on this score almost all of the time in this past decade. Going by today’s standards MP was a big hit!
And again there are many flops on your list. Don’t believe even the trade called some of these hits.
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May 28, 2012 at 4:20 PM
Thanks Satyam for the note. i actually did not know some of the stuff u told abt hddcs and khnh. actually i believe it’s sometimes better for us to disagree with u because then u come up with ur typical great points which ‘enlighten’ us…LOL. BTW were u connected to the film business since u know so much abt how BO functions and so on?
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May 28, 2012 at 6:10 PM
I can’t enlighten anyone Saurabh but I have followed these things very closely for very long and I guess I have a sick memory for remembering this stuff. For example do you know that the trade once upon a time used to give occupancy rates for movies? They stopped doing so after Devdas when five trade analysts had five different figures for the very same centers! Earlier on the success of a film would depend on occupancy from week to week. So for example (and this is something I repeated many times over the past few months) Agneepath was at 100% in Bombay the first two weeks. Today that would be called a megahit! In any case in 2002 Devdas was at 93% in Bombay in week 1 and Aankhen (Bachchan) was at 100% (did 95% in week 2). Of course you have to account for print differentials too but in any case the point is that the Devdas numbers weren’t that great. And these were lower outside the major metros. But as usual some of the numbers were cooked here. They took it to 30 crores or so. This total is possible but I doubt it did more than 25. You know for a number of films numbers are simply passed on from the producers or stars to the trade figures and the media. So there’s a decision — let’s call ‘x’ ay 40 crores. Now it’s not that a 20 crore film can be called at 40 but a 35 crore one certainly can be. And this keeps happening, specially with certain stars. It’s just a very corrupt system. some totals are not even within the realm of possibility. Similarly with stars who don’t play the game the opposite is often true. So the 35 crore film instead of being called at 40 or even the actual number is called at 30. And it’s not just this. even much more banal stuff like gossip pieces and film news and what not is often directed a certain way by star handlers etc. So when you here idiotic stories about a star learning a new language for every other film and becoming fluent at it you know what’s going on!
Anyway I’m rambling now but as I said I’m not enlightening anyone. I’ve just followed these things for a long time. People usually don’t look at Guru’s week 6 numbers in Indore versus say that of Krrish or LRM or something. I did! It’s just a question of interest, nothing more.
Some of the stuff you’re getting into is also about the retrospective view. When a star is around for many years only the hits are counted in any summary. And these can be any number but all the gaps are ignored. It is hardly ever the way it happened in real time. For example SRK had a huge number of failures or underperformers in the 90s. Every time he pretty much deviated from his strength genre he failed. But he nonetheless was the most iconic star of that period (in the overseas circuits he was even bigger than this) and he had of course the most iconic films of the period (though with not as much regularity as one might think). But the media/trade apparatus, always in bed with him, never talked about the failures.
And here with Abhishek (and this is a point I would make to saket too) that the narrative has always been very hostile to him barring for a very brief period. They talk about the performances positively a lot of times but everything else is negative (as it was for his father in very profound ways at his very peak). And over time this narrative becomes received truth. A lot of times in these debates people are not thinking about the facts as much as the narratives or more precisely they rely on a certain interpretation of the facts which comes from these narratives. The latter really become the ether. And I’ve seen over the year that whether it was 2005 or 2011, his best moment or his lowest one, the negativity remained constant except that the variables would be changed somewhat. So instead of saying the hits were multistarrers one would say something else. It was hard to devise a scenario where he could be called an important unless of course he delivered the kinds of grossers Salman is doing today and without any other star. Which too would be a fair standard except that no other star was forced to live upto such standards whether in terms of gross or number of flops and so on. Anyway I’ve gone into these details before but the narrative is fundamentally an unfair and biased one. And a number of argumentative tricks and mutually exclusive bits of logic were (and are) used to sustain them. I’ve detailed these comprehensively over time. Which is why the attention to Abhishek on Bol Bachchan in the overwhelming number of media pieces to date has been surprising. This only goes to prove that had it seemed one sided or so in the trailers or the advertising not to mention the title issue and so on, they would never have done so. Nonetheless and even with some of these examples it’s a partisan narrative where some stars are always given a pass even if they had a hit a decade ago while for someone like Abhishek every single film is important (which would be fine if one just accepted the bar for him was higher because expectations were greater). Contra Saket having a hit 10 years ago or whatever doesn’t mean anything by any historical standard. By that argument no star would ever be in trouble! But the larger point here is that even though the narrative cannot really determine box office outcome it can otherwise have harmful effects to the extent that it starts informing perceptions in various intangible ways. So even when people don’t think they’re informed by the narrative they actually are. This is true for any field actually but unless you’re willing to question the framing itself you can sometimes not get to the heart of the problem.
And yes it is true that I have often offered this paradoxical point — that the box office is the bottom-line for any star but no star career is simply about the box office. It is also about meaning and symbolism and a whole series of intangibles. It is never just a mathematical formula. It actually wasn’t so even for Bachchan himself with whom the math was truly overwhelming. I haven’t seen a box office record to match his in any industry I am aware of. But this was possible because his meaning was also greatest. It didn’t happen independently of this. To put it another way you can’t be Akshay Kumar and do this. Not just because of different talent levels and all the obvious things but also because Akshay can never ‘mean’ as much. here too the Abhishek example is an interesting one. he is heir to the most potent signature around but his own relationship to that signature is an ambivalent one for very many reasons.
There is in any case a larger arc to star careers that isn’t simply about adding up the numbers. The box office is essential, don’t want to be misunderstood on this but the ‘value’ of a star is often not reducible to the same. This is the paradox. Much as over the last decade if you look at Bachchan’s box office record you would think there’s limited demand for his films. On the other hand if you looked at his ad reach and his TV success you would reach a different conclusion. of course Bachchan did a lot of unusual roles and films that couldn’t have worked anyway not to mention a lot of small roles in meaningless films that diluted his impact greatly. But it is equally true that the Bachchan people wanted to see, one connected with his populist history, was often available in those other formats and not in the cinema! Much as Abhishek’s Idea has one of the highest recalls in India (there was a survey on this just recently as well), it’s been one of the most successful ad campaigns but again this Abhishek is rarely seen in films. So there is a lot of grey area here. Especially so in a much more Hollywood-like industry where the prestige project carries more weight than ever before. A star could keep having hits with Rohit shetty and not mean much other than in the obvious box office sense while another star could have much more moderate success in prestige films and mean more with the audiences that drive the multiplex economy. But in Hollywood they make those distinctions. Will Smith has been for a long time one of the biggest stars. At one point he had 10 or so 200m grossers in a row. Brad Pitt didn’t do anything comparable, he wasn’t even able to keep up with Cruise’s box office for the most part. But the choices were hardly the same either. Pitt was doing a lot of different if not quirky stuff that just couldn’t have grossed as much. More recently he’s been reaping some dividends but still you can’t hope to gross much with Tree of Life. I think we’re at a place in India where some of these things are dimly intuited by the audience but there isn’t the film culture to categorically identify them and debate them accordingly. and so with Abhishek his big failures have also been excused to some degree precisely because these were certain kinds of films. If it had only been about Players and Rohit Shetty and that sort of thing and if those had all failed he would truly have been finished long ago. The distributors might think he’s nuts for doing the wrong films but they actually don’t feel that other stars could pull these off. And when he gets the right attention in a Bol Bachchan that’s the sort of thing he should have always done according to them. It’s just about following the money. In the business they’re not sentimentalists about this stuff. And yet the name matters in an intangible way even here. As does one’s poise and so on. No business model is only about the rational and certainly not any film industry. It’s always about making bets and valuing stocks if you will. As I’ve said before one of the way Abhishek can be explained, or at least his continuing viability, is if one examines not just his record but that of his peers. What the trade says 95% of the time in the popular media is just junk. Producers and distributors don’t invest their money based on what Nahata or Taran say. Just as they don’t need to be told whether they’ve made money on a film or lost it. The whole narrative though makes one believe things that are very far from the truth. When Raavan released it was called a disaster. Months later Nahta said it didn’t work but it wasn’t too bad a flop. of course no one was interested by then. At the time I remember telling people that the way Rathnam budgets and structures his productions there’s no way that the film would lose all that much. People laughed at me because of course the trade narrative is disseminated everywhere like the greatest propaganda and it’s hard to argue against it. When Guzaarish flopped no one made a big fuss about it though they of course called it that. But here’s the truth — in all probability Guzaarish lost more than Raavan (this is reflected in the gross first of all) but even more importantly JA probably lost UTV as much as raavan did its producers! The same with the first Don! Yes! This is the truth! But one sounds crazy saying it because JA is called a hit and what not and Raavan the greatest disaster! Note how UTV dropped Gowariker after JA not after KHJJS! Or in between there was that low budget deal which also didn’t work out. Why? Because while Ja’s 55-60 crores are a lot better than Raavan’s 35 or so but not if JA cost a whale more! This is an example of why those Abhishek projects kept getting financiers. Because the distributor wasn’t losing all that much on D6 or Raavan (contrary to popular perception) while he wasn’t making anything on Don or JA and in all probability losing money in most cases! No one in Hollywood cares what film made 100m if the gross is disproportionate to all other costs. But in India we often here this sort of charge — SRK even when he flopped did 100 crores while Abhishek can’t get to 60 or whatever. Yes that’s true but the distributor doesn’t care. Because he’s going bankrupt with Ra One not with Raavan! The absolute gross matters for very many reasons but not to those who invest in the film if it is not commensurate with their opportunity costs in every sense. This is not a debate anyone has in the popular media in India. Meanwhile we have people in Hollywood suggesting how a 250m grosser was nonetheless disappointing on various grounds. But of course the money invested is still the same either way. The rules of mathematics don’t change just because we’re in India. But yeah we have a corrupt system where the media/trade can say anything they want and where various film figures don’t mind prospering from the propaganda.
Again people just don’t close to enough about all of this stuff.
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May 28, 2012 at 6:23 PM
lol i remember the occupancy reporting crap about 10 years ago. it was so stupid. with no real numbers we had to rely on statements like “lagaan is at 80% opening week”.
taran within the past five years or so was forced to switch over after BOI came along and changed the game in my opinion. now taran reports actual first week numbers in crore’s instead of the occupancy rate. obviously the indian box office still isn’t transparent as the rest of the world but it has gotten much much better.
to me, the way to judge a stars box office stature is raw numbers. how much a certain stars film has earned in its first day, first week and the final tally.
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May 28, 2012 at 7:17 PM
I actually think it has gotten worse. The occupancy rates weren’t the only thing that mattered but these indicated audience participation. Of course sometimes these numbers are used today also but in a completely haphazard and random way to support any kind of narrative. I’m not saying in any case that this should be the only criterion but as Saket has pointed out if a star is doing well in small centers and selling a lot of tickets this will seem negligible when one looks at the gross. Even with successful films this matters. So for example RH sold a lot more tickets than KKHH. It probably grossed a bit more too but the spread is much greater. I think ideally there should be a number for tickets sold as they do in the West. Specially so when unlike with the latter ticket prices can vary dramatically as can entertainment tax structures. Does it make any sense that a single screen in Bihar can get taxed upto 55% (think the number was lowered a bit recently) while multiplexes in Bombay can get tax exemptions for a 5 or 10 year period and then get dubious exemptions which in many instances means practically a zero tax! And the system has been really perverse these last 15 years or so with the multiplex economy. Because you have the additional factor of also making films only for that audience. It wasn’t even a level playing field. Which made the system very different from any previous one which was about normal change in trends and so on. So to take the Salman example saket has used once again if Garv was making 7-10 crores it might have actually been selling tickets than in multiplex terms would have meant twice or three times that number. At some point Bollywood became a boutique cinema. You can sell something to 10 people for ‘x’ amount or you can sell the same thing with a bit of tweaking for ‘x + 1’ as long as you have at least 3 people willing to buy it at that greater cost and therefore equalize things. The difference is that in a normal market there is never a vacuum in this sense. You either do one or the other or in some cases both. But if you don’t do one of these things someone else will. With Bollywood what happened was that the whole system was structured a certain way so that you either paid high prices for something or else you saw something you weren’t interested in at a reasonable price. But there was almost nothing if you wanted your kind of subject at an affordable price. Which is for example why Bhojpuri cinema became so big in the hinterland in this period. if you’re the Garv audience what was Bollywood making for you most of the time? Nothing! And then there was that old shenanigan that such films ran in B,C centers. That wasn’t the whole story. They ran here because you either saw Garv or nothing. There wasn’t the option to see something better for the same subject. A Khakee was a very rare event. Usually you had to settle for terrible stuff. When Bombay was making mass cinema the same kinds of A grade films were big hits whether in Bombay or in Bihar. The latter folks didn’t say they were going to watch Z grade rehashes instead of the actual thing! But then it was also available at a reasonable cost. In TN there are still laws that prohibit multiplexes from raising rates beyond a certain point. Now I cannot say I am completely comfortable with the idea for certain reasons but it does perform a certain larger good. And not surprisingly this industry has remained vastly more healthy than Bollywood in every imaginable sense. In the 90s most of the action stars were relegated to B grade stuff. There were sociological reasons for this of course. It became a much more sealed system with only insiders given chances who then made certain kinds of films. But it was also about a kind of ‘irresponsibility’ that set up things to reward such attitudes. It wasn’t just accidental. Anyway this is a whole long debate but the gross under such circumstances is terribly misleading. With the return of masala cinema and the decline of SRK/Yashraj or their iconic cinema things have been better to the extent that films that build a broader coalition do better. You can’t get to the biggest grosses unless you minimally play everywhere. But this too shouldn’t fool us too much. Because a mushrooming multiplex industry supports this cinema across the board. Grosses don’t just increase in a B center because of the subject but also when a multiplex opens up. The problem then is the same. You have those who can afford those multiplex rates in say Kanpur and those who cannot. We are still a far way off from cinema being ‘for’ everyone the way it once was and the way it still is in most other parts of the world and for that matter in South India as well.
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May 28, 2012 at 6:44 PM
The occupancy rate actually makes sense. If it’s reported for all films on a regular basis, a more clearer picture will emerge. It’s not whether Ra1 made 100 crores or so, but how!
It would also bolster my claim about Salman’s fan following in smaller centers. The occupancy numbers from there would open a lot of eyes, in my opinion.
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May 29, 2012 at 12:23 AM
back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s all we had to rely on was occupancy rates. then taran(i’m just using this guy as an example) started to bust out with real numbers from major centers. that made a lot more sense to the typical box office follower, then say an insider or such. with raw numbers we can come to our own conclusions about a film doing well or not. anyone who can do simple math can figure that stuff out.
but i do agree the occupancy rate along with raw numbers helps bring a broader picture of how well or how bad the movie has done. no argument there.
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May 28, 2012 at 3:46 PM
Seeing satyam here today reminds one of bachchan in khakhi
Go..man go lol
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May 28, 2012 at 3:47 PM
I also need my inhaler now!
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May 28, 2012 at 3:51 PM
hahaha
and a belt to beat up these ‘challengers’ !!!
remember the ‘climax’ scene of khaki …
Satyam is BACK folks
hide in a corner will the lion stops roaring 🙂
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May 30, 2012 at 1:16 PM
[addedto post] title song trailer
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May 30, 2012 at 1:28 PM
Quite horrifying to see men like Devgn, Big B & Abhishek doing the belly moving feminine moves.
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May 30, 2012 at 1:40 PM
this is good stuff. not the best or great….but still good. again not sure how much this will ‘sell’. bachchan brand does not bring in the audience anymore…
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May 30, 2012 at 1:49 PM
full song:
[added to post]
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May 30, 2012 at 2:02 PM
Pretty cool song….. 100 cr toh pucca hain !!
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May 30, 2012 at 2:26 PM
Thanks for posting the title song trailer (I notice that some of these trailers are being taken offline by Youtube) — pretty lame song, but good to see the Great One in action. Devgan seems a bit out of it though (what is with that Anil-Kapoor-from-Tashan line of humor? The poor English angle just doesn’t do it for me), this song is a bit of a Bachchan circus.
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May 30, 2012 at 2:27 PM
Song is good fun and old bachchan dialogues in between are quite nostalgic.
Comparing to energy level of Kajra re … Sr Bachchan now becomes very old, though he still dances very well .. in fact best among three, but his old charm was on another level ..
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May 30, 2012 at 3:41 PM
This is a fun song that seems to represent Bol Bachchan very well. Cool song for a comedy movie.
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May 30, 2012 at 4:58 PM
Oh God … such a LAME song. There is nothing in this song that will bring in the crowds. Not an iota of Chikni Chameli effect.
I think if anything Rohit and Ajay combo may do the trick. Bachchans are a total liability. Really feel sorry for them.
AB should just stick ot production… do something “behind the camera” not in front of it.
-Mahesh
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May 30, 2012 at 6:41 PM
Have watched this ‘title’ song once -couldn’t really get any real vibe
May get better with repeat listens
Have a weakness for bachchan sr vocals irrespective of the song , thou not many share it currently, it seems
As of now–am a bit concerned about the track record of —
Rohit shetty!!!
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May 30, 2012 at 7:07 PM
Ok folks– planning to book Prometheus for this long weekend
But hey, surprise-rowdy rathore has released near me…
And will stay only for a week-may see that first
Any predictions Satyam and others– in black n white
Rowdy rathore
1st day, 1st weekend, gross
Let’s have the numbers
Ps–some songs ate catchy in a ‘guilty pleasure’ sorta way…
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May 30, 2012 at 7:13 PM
I have a feeling RR may do somewhere near 120 crores in total. Do tell us about Prometeus. I have not seen the Aliens series by Scott so this one does not interest me so much
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May 30, 2012 at 7:38 PM
Thanx for that prediction
May go for RR since it will last only a few days in the cinema
But will decide on the day -depends on poll and ‘company’
What are your predictions Satyam and others on rowdy gross…
Btw just came across a song from ishaqzaade
Challah or something like that -maybe someone can come up with a link
Gauhar and pc both in form
Interesting movements there
And perhaps one of the most ‘obscenely’ gross movement by the ‘innocent’ parineeti
What was that ‘pelvic rub’ sort of move …
I’m offended somewhat lol
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May 30, 2012 at 8:01 PM
This is the song mentioned above ^
Will check it out properly later
What do folks feel about this, minor hav u seen this
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May 30, 2012 at 7:41 PM
This comment is for all those who seem to develop a reaction everytime a Bachchan is mentioned, who pretend to be only against Abhishek but reveal their true colors when they start attacking Bachchan as well! Actually I don’t have a problem with the latter position (one can not be a fan of Lata Mangeshkar and Shakespeare too.. democracy sometimes entails atrocious taste.. what can one say?!) if folks would just be honest about it. Anyway the thing is that this video (though it seems rather stale in its Kajra re hangover and so on; Bachchan is always a welcome presence anywhere) is once again ‘subtle’ Rohit shetty style. Evidently the director also realized that some can’t spell in English or haven’t quite got the message so he decided to hammer things some more. And so here you have a song where Devgan seems completely superfluous. Actually it’s an indication of the kind of relationship he has with them that he’s ok with all this. Even the swinging pendulum has ‘Bol Bachchan’ plastered on it! Then Bachchan recites some of his iconic lines, updates the egg moment from AAA, and Abhishek himself quotes lines of his father’s or the words of wisdom that in turn highlight the ‘bol vachan’ that is behind ‘bol bachchan’. In other words Bachchan’s great lines are now the oral wisdom of Hindi-speaking culture! I agree! But this song is mostly a kind of conversation between father and son. Interestingly Abhishek too handles it a certain way. There’s the suggestion here with his impish persona and the way he talks about the lines about how he perhaps hasn’t learnt very much from the wisdom! In any case the bachchan signature looms large over this film. As I’ve said many times before if Abhishek is nobody Rohit Shetty is the latest director who didn’t get the message!
getting back to the song again it’s lavishly done and so on in terms of the video but they could have staged it a whole lot better in other ways. Leaving this aside it ought to have been a better song (though this too keeps hitting everyone on the head with the ‘bol bachchan’ chant!). The problem though is that it is so obviously a kajra re kind of deal without the spontaneity of the latter that it feels mechanical. Fun in a way but I am to be honest always saddened by such efforts to simply ‘rip off’ from Bachchan’s canonical legacy. I said this to Bachchan on his blog when the photos were out. I am not against ironic referencing or whatever but this is blatantly about taking the usual stuff and connecting Abhishek with it that it ceases to be interesting without the proper vehicle to support it. For me, as everyone knows, Bachchan’s peak terrain is hallowed ground and i don’t quite like cheap attempts to profit from it. And I don’t quite like Bachhcan making himself available for such stuff either. I know the audience likes this kind of stuff, I am hardly arguing the box office here. It’s certainly fun to see father and son together, they always have a certain chemistry. One wishes they’d do something more substantial like Paa as a norm rather than this kind of stuff. But in any case if one forgot the box office background one would think this was a Bachchan production with Devgan supporting things. Even with the box office reality of Devgan doing well at the moment one could be forgiven for thinking this was an AB Corp production with Devgan providing some ‘safety’!
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May 30, 2012 at 9:38 PM
Satyam, have you thought about this being a marketing ploy to get the crowds in to make money? As AB Snr has a massive following, the film makers (Rohit Setty, Ajay etc) would have deliberately adopted this strategy in releasing this song with main focus on AB snr and Abhishek. One cannot conclude that Ajay is merely providing some support with his presence or is a safety factor. One can only judge such things after seeing the movie in its entirety. I had the same question as Saurabh, is it necessary to pull Ajay down to make your points about Abhishek? I agree with you about film makers these days using threads from earlier successful films (be it songs or dialogues) with no real context but merely cashing in on their popularity..
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May 30, 2012 at 8:07 PM
Agree here
I was surprised at the slightly ‘subtle’ vibe here by shettys outlandish ‘flying around stuff’ standards
“And so here you have a song where Devgan seems completely superfluous. Actually it’s an indication of the kind of relationship he has with them that he’s ok with all this. Even the swinging pendulum has ‘Bol Bachchan’ plastered on it” -agree
Though coudltn really hear this properly and didn’t register any particular vibe but have rarely not liked a song actually SUNG by bachchan himself (including eg Rozana in nishabd and even the kahaani one )
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May 30, 2012 at 8:12 PM
Satyam, there is no point in spelling out things to people if they r not ready to listen. if the title of the film and bachchan’s presence cannot instill some sense in those minds, nothing can (some have reached such a ridiculous level where they r saying that ‘krushna’ is better than abhishek here). but i have a grouse here, to support abhishek why do u need to keep pulling down devgan everytime- i am sorry if i offend u but every comment of urs abt the film has not-so-nice things abt devgan
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May 30, 2012 at 8:33 PM
Saurabh, I’m not pulling down Devgan at all. I’m just telling it the way I see it. I am not saying he’s a supporting actor here, he looks completely superfluous in the song but he’s of course essential to the film otherwise. However when you then factor in the symbolic weight of the whole Bachchan angle and so on things become different. The thing is these days people often have a crude view of a multistarrer. The problem often isn’t about footage but the symbolic weight of each part. In many of Bachchan’s films the Shashi Kapoor kind of actor had comparable footage but it was Bachchan around whom everything centered in every sense. Of course Bachchan wasn’t just anyone. A lot of the other multistarrers had parity in the same sense though sometimes one actor would overshadow another. So I’m hardly comparing Abhishek to his father. However the point I’ve always made is that from an RGV to now Rohit Shetty it is the directors who establish the direct correspondence. It is they who constantly try to make Abhishek occupy that space. This is to my mind a fairly complex and complicated thing that I’ve tried to interpret in different ways before. But in a literal sense they’re putting it out there. I’m not imagining it.
As for my views on Devgan otherwise I don’t have a problem with him but I’ve always thought these things about him. Sunny isn’t acting in a film with Abhishek nor has he in the past but I’ve always held even harsher views about him. So it’s not some cynical exercise here just because I see competition within this film. I’ve said many times in the past that I find Devgan completely unconvincing in comedy.
The other thing is that a lot of my views in isolation might seem harsh or eccentric or both. But there is I think both ideological and ‘aesthetic’ (for want of a better word) consistency here. Whether it is the films support or an actor like Abhishek there is consistency if one truly examines my other choices. Much as I’ve offered some of my strongest criticisms on Bachchan’s own blog regarding his own work!
To be honest I find this whole idea of playing favorites or supporting positions for ‘strategic’ reasons and so on not only immature but also completely boring. Just not interested in this kind of posturing. I have the same ideological views whether here, on Bachchan’s blog or conversations with people elsewhere. I like and dislike the same films in all contexts. I don’t say different things to different audiences. I know this stuff happens a lot on blogs but these are people who either have yet to grow up or never quite grew up and/or those who just don’t believe in anything other than blind adherence to their favorite star(s). It’s like the SRK fan who loves all the Johar stuff and celebrates the box office as the only criterion but when it’s Swades then suddenly it’s all about quality and the box office doesn’t matter! I certainly don’t find it odd if one wants one’s favorite star to get success doing anything and everything. But that’s different from supporting every film. A lot of the Bol Bachchan stuff makes me queasy to be quite honest. I think Abhishek might make this watchable for me but not expecting anything else. This isn’t even like Players (a film I enjoyed a lot) where I felt that because of the official remake aspect this might be a lot better than the usual Abbas-Mustaan stuff! Don’t think Bol Bachchan will be better. It will just have that Golmaal angle which normally should have made things better but Shetty has quite obviously converted this into a circus as well! Even if I find it watchable enough it will never be a film I particularly like let alone love. And even if I like Abhishek a lot here. The possibility of my loving Bol Bachchan is simply foreclosed.
In any case people don’t look at all the things I say. They just pick up things in isolation. Not referring to you here nor am I offended with you. Just making a larger point. as I said the other day I like Thakshak more than most of Abhishek’s or Aamir’s films. I like Dil Se more than Yuva or Guru. But no one argues with this stuff. They just choose to pick on the other things. Because they themselves are partisans of the worst kind. The folks who like any and every film but suddenly find all of Abhishek’s films poor or terrible whether it’s DMD or Bol Bachchan, D6 or Dostana! Unless they are only Ray or Fellini watchers this is a bit hard to swallow!
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May 30, 2012 at 8:45 PM
I got your point and especially agree abt the blind fan-following. But how did u enjoy a film as bad as Players? i mean seriously,even Race was way better than and Abhishek here was horribly miscast. Found it infinitely inferior to Game in each and every respect (though i wonder how Players ended up getting better reviews than Game). Game certainly was much riskier and deserved much better fate, both at BO and orherwise. On players, it was not even entertaining- found it Abbas-mustan weakest film till now
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May 30, 2012 at 8:53 PM
Found it vastly superior to Game which I didn’t mind otherwise. Actually I think it is Abbas-Mustaan’s best film (for what it’s worth). Don’t mind Race either but this was far better because I found it most plot-oriented and with the least admixture of unnecessary elements. More on this here:
By the way you mentioned HKKN recently and I remember saying at the time it was one of Dhawan’s best films. People thought I was nuts! never thought much of his Govinda films (though they were enjoyable in parts). still think Aankhen is his overall best effort within the genre but later on he got more genuinely zany. I see HKKN as a good example to this. To an extent Yeh Hai Jalwa with its crazy take on Trishul belonged to the same group.
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May 30, 2012 at 9:04 PM
it’s great that i have atleast found 1 admirer of HKKN apart from me( and it couldn’t have better than u)- the film was trashed if i am not wrong- but the scenes between bachchan and Dutt had me in splits. Agreed on Aankhen being his best(sadashiv omrapurkar was too good) though i believe, in Coolie No. 1, Dhawan actually showed that he belonged to Desai school of film-making- got the mistaken-identity trope right. don’t like Yeh hai jalwa. i like his debut Taaqatwar with Dutt and Devgn
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May 30, 2012 at 11:37 PM
Of his early regular films I think Shola aur Shabnam is the best. On Aankhen I like the crazy doubling here! But yeah HKKN was panned and also flopped. Interestingly it was also a relative non-starter which was surprising.
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May 31, 2012 at 12:22 AM
What does HKKN stand for?
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May 31, 2012 at 12:53 AM
Hum Kisise Kum Nahin.
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June 1, 2012 at 12:28 AM
I only know of one film HKKN – the old Rishi Kapoor one that had some melodious RD songs including those inspired by Abba
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May 30, 2012 at 9:19 PM
Satyam i have read that write-up of yours. but i disagree completely on players- “found it most plot-oriented and with the least admixture of unnecessary elements.”- i actually find it completely opposite of what u r saying- they had an official license to simply ‘copy’ the original but they added so many ridiculous twists, which unlike in race, could be spotted from a mile(car made of gold? wtf). and the film was so kitschy. the entire ‘chase scenes with chevies’ looked unreal and embarassing.
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May 31, 2012 at 3:13 AM
I have often asked myself this question, whether i have gone to see movies starring abhisekh bachhan to see him or for other reasons?
my conclusion is as follows:
Guru: Mani Ratnam. Period. But after watching it, i saw it again, and saw it again for abhisekh’s performances
Yuva: Mani Ratnam. Period. No I haven’t ever visited it again for Abhisekh.
Raavan: Mani Ratnam. Period.
Delhi 6: Watch it long time after it released for Rakesh Mehra.
Bluffmaster: Abhi and coolness, that flowed from trailers, and songs.
Drona: Didn’t have guts!!
Players: Didn’t have guts!!
KHJJS: huh!
___________________________________________________
Now I am not here to ridicule the star, like him, but the problem that is i feel like saket (each of the word u have written and argued, i completely second you there) the problem is I can’t remember a movie where i went to see it in theater for Abhisekh.
The problem is one cannot identify with Abhisekh if one is from this generation. I have loved his roles, and but i don’t feel i am eagerly waiting for his movies.
Sample Bol Bachchan: I won’t be watching it, and even if I do i am feeling i will watch it for Devgn and Rohit Shetty.
ps- I am not being mean on him, he certainly is a good actor, but lacks the star quality.
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May 31, 2012 at 4:06 AM
good comments. and these are the kinds of discussions that i like coming to this forum. so i am just going to butt in and make a comment lol.
abhishek obviously has some ways to go to being a huge star… but in my mind he is a bonafide star. the guy has been tried and tested and proven he belongs. he is just in a major slump. aamir went through it after QSQT, sallu bhai went through it a couple times in his career, SRK has gone through a slump, hrithik went through a series of flops before koi mil gaya happened. point is every star goes through a slump(not saying he is on their level).
as for the acting part, i believe he is a good actor. to me Yuva is his best acting and then KANK. i actually saw KANK(horrible movie btw) not becuase of SRK or Amitabh but for Abhishek bahchan. i thought he stole the show entirely in that movie. that is a huge thing considering it was a female centric movie and SRK was on his “home turf”. not to mention Amitabh in a total flamboyant role…and abhishek, IMO, out shined both of them.
the potential is there and we have witnessed it with him on the box office side and then on the acting side. i think he needs to quit experimenting with films like KJJS and drona. focus on films like DMD, sarkar, and BnB. we will see what BB leads to as far as his commercial value goes.
to steal rooney’s idea, movies that i went to see because of abhishek:
Refugee: am a fan of big b, so curiosity was there to see his son in a movie
Tera Jadoo Chal Gaya: his second film, still was curious. lol.
Bas Itna sa khawab hai: curiosity now fading but still watched it because of him.
BnB: watched it because of abhishek and big b combo
KANK: watched it because of abhishek, even in the first promo he stole the show, in my opinion. he had more screen presence than SRK, in my opinion(when they both shared the screen). that is saying A LOT, because SRK has huge screen presence.
DMD: watched it because of abhishek portraying a bad ass cop in a crime film.
D3: i’ll try not to be biased, but yes, excited to see Aamir and abhishek in a movie together(wished it was another subject though).
satyam bhai, if you are indeed abhishek in real life(heard rumors on this site 😉 ) lol, please do a movie with rohan sippy again ASAP!!!
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May 31, 2012 at 3:14 AM
Just saw the song: Two Thumbs Down.
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May 31, 2012 at 4:52 AM
OT,
Why Disney Brought Ronnie ( Caravan)
http://caravanmagazine.in/Story.aspx?StoryID=1429&Page=1
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May 31, 2012 at 10:50 AM
Back from my vacation friends, Missed the whole Bol Bachchan trailer launch, Just saw it. Expected a little more from a Rohit Shetty film (Read cheesy), I guess he toned it down a tad bit but still a RS film. What’s the final word here guys? Any predictions? Too many comments to read here. LOL. Satyam sir what’s the final word? what are your expectations from this? Saurabh bhai Kya haal hai? Still fighting?lol..
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May 31, 2012 at 11:30 AM
Satyam sir, I tried to see if you had any predictions for this I couldn’t really find any, Skimmed through it. Anything? What are your expectations? Dying to know. AB needs this big time.
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May 31, 2012 at 11:39 AM
Should be a big one. How big remains to be seen. I easily see it getting to 100 crores. Beyond this it’s hard to predict. It also has competition almost immediately in the following week with Cocktail. Now usually these 100 crore grossers make most of their money within a week but those are poor trenders that fizzle out after the initial. For a more stable film it’s a factor. Not that Cocktail is huge competition but a multiplex only film can always do enough damage. Still don’t see a problem with the 100 crores. The question is how much more can it do. I always look at trending. For the media and trade types 100 crore is always good enough. Obviously it will be so for Abhishek. The hit tag by these debased standards is not what I’m talking about. and again this is a ‘big splash’ sort of film. But how a film sustains is always crucial going forward and actually I’d argue it is much more so for Abhishek. Because with some of the other stars who are not vulnerable in box office terms even a film that fizzles out dramatically after an initial is not that bad because they they then move on to another project which also has an audience. Since Abhishek is trying to re-establish trust with the audience, to be quite blunt about it, if he has the same sort of graph the audience might not have a positive enough memory here to carry over to his next solo whether it’s Businessman or whatever. But D3 releases first and when you have a couple of big successes maybe there’s enough positivity around you for it not to matter as much by the time another commercial film arrives. But still if you’re in his position you want the audience to be very happy with you.
By the way this is another example of how I am never just looking at the obvious numbers but the reality beneath them and/or the larger narrative.
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May 31, 2012 at 11:48 AM
This is great, Thanks Satyam sir. I was thinking around the same ball park, How big it is it all depends on how well its trending and how the WOM is for this one. Even in the past DMD had an Okay WOM and it trended well for its genre and the budget it came under. Another thing came to mind was. How come no one is talking about the budget of this one? The last few solo starrers of AB the budget was a big issue with Players, DMD, game etc. I guess because AD has a few success under his belt in the recent past he gets a free pass on that question. ha. BTW what is the budget of this one?
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May 31, 2012 at 11:55 AM
By the way even though, and as an Abhishek fan, I know he needs important box office success it does make me more than a little queasy to see such scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel efforts. To an extent because he’s in this one but much moreso because of the really unthinking way such efforts are celebrated only because they look like box office gold. Similarly for most of the audience this is all they’re looking for. As I’ve said before I don’t have a snobbish attitude about these things. I am certainly not against ‘silly’ entertainment. I certainly don’t have the class angle here which many have where they celebrate idiocy if it comes by way of the Cocktail format but are very opposed to the Rohit Shetty kind of venture. I find both hard to take. But the larger point here is about the film culture. When Adam Sandler had a big one in Hollywood no one celebrates this kind of film. In Bombay on the other hand what’s nauseating is the extent to which very crude entertainment like Bol Bachchan can be celebrated as promising or ‘colorful’ (a favorite word in the media and a completely vacuous one, of which there are many!) while much more meaningful films just because they look like box office poison are mercilessly attacked and run down on completely pedestrian grounds. So take a film like D6. It’s perfectly fine if one doesn’t take to it but one should be able to at least appreciate a great deal of the film’s visual strengths, the world it creates and so on. At the very least the critics ought to be qualified enough to be able to do this. Sadly this never happens or such critics are in a small minority. So we have the obscene commentary which suggests that Bol Bachchan ran because it was entertaining and had a good story (blah blah blah..) and D6 had none of these things. This is not wrong and inaccurate, it’s nonsensical and incoherent. I always privilege the 70s but it wasn’t about just the 70s films of this age. The ‘worst’ of the hits in this period (which is to say hits that were otherwise nothing films) normally didn’t headline the top grossers in most years. There were some exceptions of course but usually there was a better match between the somewhat more meaningful commercial film and the bigger grosser. Even more importantly there were lots of offbeat or experimental films that didn’t run but no one started attacking them. Today people go after a lot of these films with a vengeance, especially the trade. So no matter how much Bol Bachchan makes one can be happy for Abhishek in a limited sense if one is a fan but really how happy can one be otherwise when this sort of thing is part of the problem. Or not the problem per se but to the degree that it feeds a certain narrative. Which is why I want Abhishek to get his success and move on to better stuff as soon as he can! In the meantime one will have to hold one’s nose! Wouldn’t be surprised at all if he does a great job here and makes the film watchable for me. But it wouldn’t make it a good or great movie for me otherwise.
and here there’s often a false split. It is totally possible to make silly movies that are great entertainers but are not otherwise examples of the crudest filmmaking.
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May 31, 2012 at 12:21 PM
Agreed on all counts, And even though AB might be uncomfortable doing these kind of films just to get himself out of the ditch, It should be commended that it does not show in his performances. He gives his 100 % to it, which is evident in the trailers. I am strictly comparing Aamir Khan here when he went outside his terrain and did a film like Fanaa, You can see that was not Aamir’s best outing as an actor. You can see it in his peformance that he was not doing this with whole heartedly, He did mention it as well in one of the interviews, that he was doing this movie to keep some of his front bencher fans happy. That’s one of the reason’s why AB has always been those one of a kind actor and here the STAR actor comes in play and he can mould himself to anything according to the terrain of the film, his thought process his body language changes instantly. I checked out the making of this one as well. Also the other song, He is looking/acting completely different, Its a different matter that some of us may not like it, but like you suggested he has to go this route to get himself out of the ditch right now.
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May 31, 2012 at 12:27 PM
Abhishek has always had a great feel for comedy so I don’t think the role itself is out of his comfort zone,
On Aamir I must say I liked him a lot in Fanaa.
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May 31, 2012 at 12:32 PM
I should have elobarated a bit more. I meant the whole commercial/complete nonsense masala setup. He does not feel out ouf place. A good actor is good in everything if you ask me, be it comedy or otherwise. Thats never been a question with AB. About Aamir, I despise this film one for Kohli and 2 for Aamir’s first half act was really cringe worthy. (Mind you Aamir is one of favs of all time).
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May 31, 2012 at 10:55 AM
Hmm
So kash where was the vacation
Taking of predictions, maybe checking out prometheus and/or rowdy rathore this week
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May 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM
Watsup Alex, Costa Rica my friend..It was a bliss. If you ever end up going there, GO ZIP LINNING..off da hook bro. Forests are so beautiful,I had field day with my dslr shooting all the birds and wildlife. Amazing fun. Yeah will try and check them both out this week. You know how it goes, It soon as you come back from vacation you make all these promises to yourself that “I will catch up on this or that” , Socialize a little more with friends lets see how far it goes. LOL
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May 31, 2012 at 11:06 AM
Prometheus is releasing next week. Unless it’s opening earlier at your end.
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May 31, 2012 at 11:07 AM
Oh really, Thought it was releasing this week for us in the NY area. Oh well, will try and catch The Avengers then.
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May 31, 2012 at 11:11 AM
Satyam
Prometheus is opening near me tomorrow
Will be watching the 3D version soon
But maybe rowdy rathore first lol
Ps-check out Peter bradshaws Prometheus review I put up in the les miserable thread
Ps2- expedi some really interesting and ‘brainy’ company for this one
Ps3- fassbenders done it again , it seems
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May 31, 2012 at 11:31 AM
yes this has been my most eagerly awaited big film this year and even moreso than Dark Knight!
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May 31, 2012 at 11:45 AM
Satyam, do u think one shuld first see Alien and familiarize himself with it before watching Prometheus (as it is being billed as a sort of prequel to Alien) to have a better understanding of the film? Somehow i have never gotten around to see Alien
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May 31, 2012 at 11:58 AM
Ideally one should see all four films because there is a certain thematic evolution that occurs across the franchise but in the absence of this more comprehensive (!) approach you should at least see the first one. But I’m not ‘totalitarian’ about these things. You could watch the latest one and then get to the others. If however you never do the latter you wouldn’t have an accurate sense of what this series has been about. Alien and the ensuing franchise has been one of the most critically discussed in US academia along with Blade Runner and Matrix and Fight Club (to name a few leading examples).
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May 31, 2012 at 12:00 PM
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May 31, 2012 at 11:05 AM
Oh well, costs rica sounds interesting
How did u think of that
Some ‘time share’ deals eh
Is it a popular destination
Ps-the ‘birds and wildlife’ u shot-were they interesting
Try out Amsterdam some day- not with your better half though
Was there v recently …
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May 31, 2012 at 11:11 AM
Yeah, It was interesting, My wife and I have a weird way of picking places. We write down about 5 to 7 diff places (something different) on a piece of paper, and both of us randomly pick one wit out looking at it. Take those two and choose 1 out of that. So costa Rica was it. For the next one its Thailand in november/december. Yeah we do have a time share but we didn’t use that. You have to book that crap in a year in advance. Waste of money if you ask me.
Yeah I am a novice photographer, try my hand at little kids and wildlife cause thats maybe the most candid pictures you can get.
I did try to pursuade my wife for Amsterdam for my Bachelor party, but ended up in Vegas. Still not bad though..lol
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May 31, 2012 at 11:21 AM
Haha liked that’ making a list’-reminds me of rockstars nargis f!!
Your wife sounds a cool fun person…
Btw don’t go to Thailand with her mate-a polite advice
Been there few times -ok with blokes though ..
Ditto for Amsterdam but the matter has more ‘family friendly’ choices which are ‘not applicable’ for me
How bout the gt barrier reef and south African safari
On my list for a while but changed to Orlando last year …
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May 31, 2012 at 11:25 AM
Really, I have heard otherwise on Thailand bro, Also, not just trying to got BANG kok lol, Will do other places as well. Don’t want to do europe just yet. Went to Australia/Newzealand and Hawaii for my honeymoon, We do have south africa and egypt on our list as well. Someday hopefully.
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May 31, 2012 at 12:28 PM
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May 31, 2012 at 12:34 PM
The only ‘gesture’ I like here is what looks to be the Abhishek love song at 1.32. Hey I’ll take all the masala genealogy any way I can get it! And to repeat an older point this is what the ‘signature’ is about. So in a film where Rohit Shetty is very much interested in the latter he has Abhishek as the Muslim guy but also the line in the trailer which says ‘Abbas Ali and Abhishek Bachchan’ are brothers. as I’ve argued many times before the minority has always been at the heart of the Bachchan signature and sure enough Abhishek himself has in all of his films has been in line with his father’s ‘coding’.
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May 31, 2012 at 12:49 PM
Satyam Sir, I have read many times you talk about the Abbas Ali and Bachchan connection from the fathers yesteryears films. I fail to pick it up everytime the connection you try to make here. Maybe I am missing something here or Don’t find it fitting anywhere? If you dont mind can you please elobarate a bit more and analyze for us in a simpler fashion where we can make 2 and 2? Sorry if others were able to pick this up. I just want to know here. Even though I dont get it, the connection sound all very interesting to me. Would like to undestand this clearly. Thanks in advance.
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May 31, 2012 at 1:11 PM
I have a number of comments on all of this but for now check these out and the relevant hyperlinks in the piece:
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May 31, 2012 at 1:06 PM
You know i may be completely wrong but i believe Satyam here means that in Bachchan’s films, esp in the Desai ones, the ‘minority’ may have been shown in a caricaturish manner but also in a very loving sort of manner- these characters were usually shown with a heart of gold and were never shown as being ‘outcasted’ by the majority in those films. Also in many of those films the lead character belonging to the minority actually foughts for the rights of majority, the one example here is bachchan of coolie
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May 31, 2012 at 1:25 PM
Thanks Saurabh, Interesting if he indeed means that. Will try and read all the comments here and the links Satyam sir has provided above. Have lots of catch up to do on other threads as well.. Will start by this though. Skimmed through it, found lot of AB bashing here, Man people need to back off and give the man his space just for this once. Its been constant since refugee, God knows what AB has done to deserve this kind of bashing and name calling, Saw somehwer that Krushna Abhishek is better than him. Thats the height of it man. LOL.
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May 31, 2012 at 1:32 PM
Kash, great to see u back. missed ur comments (u r one of the few non-controversial who don’t criticise stars just for the heck of it). ab aapne khud hi dekh liya- these people have stooped to their nadir. can u believe they r comparing abhi with krushna, a guy whose name to fame is doing silly comedy on a tv show. anyway seems u had fun in costa rica. do try greece and portugal/spain
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May 31, 2012 at 1:37 PM
Thanks Saurabh, Yeah man like I said its the height of it bro, These guys will say and do anything to bring down a guy who does not indulge in buying reviews and working honestly, Not saying he is doodh ka dula either but he does his job to the best of his abilities without any baggage and that too after coming from such a heavy surname.
My wife has been to port/spain twice so will do that some later time, but yeah Greece is in one of our top 10 lists for now.
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May 31, 2012 at 1:29 PM
BTW does anyone know the budget of this one? and How come no one is talking about it? In example Taran or Komal or even BOI? Bit sketchy if you ask me.
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May 31, 2012 at 2:07 PM
Satyam, i wanted to bring this to ur notice. i was searching for bol bachchan pics and i was lead here- never knew people can do such cheap stuff- http://www.naachgaana.com/2012/05/25/bol-bachchan-celebrating-mediocrity/
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May 31, 2012 at 2:15 PM
That article starts with this line – “As someone in Satyamshot said: 3 mediocre men – shetty, devgan and abhishek – completely raping …”- i believe the above statement has been made on this thread itself. this is a ridiculous attempt to show SS in bad light- satyam u should do something abt it
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May 31, 2012 at 2:21 PM
that comment was left by Bored here. I tend not to take such stuff too seriously. Of course one has every right to think that a classic is being desecrated here. I wouldn’t even disagree! The ‘little’ irony here is that Bored with his less than restrained language has gone much more the Rohit Shetty way than the hrishikesh Mukherjee one!
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June 1, 2012 at 1:03 PM
Yeah, I would have gone the other route if this was athread about the original ‘Golmaal’.
Alas, such a crassy trailer didnt deserve any ‘classy’ comment.
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May 31, 2012 at 2:33 PM
@Saurabh:
I would like to understand better, how it shows Satyamshot in bad light? As i don’t think utkal had intention or desire or actually did commit the offense as stated by you (subject to correction )
Utkal visits/comments at both forums, and he took a comment from here and started a discussion at NG, using the criticism by one member named Bored here. He hasn’t said anything bad about satyamshot, just borrowed some words?
Now please don’t take it against me, i guess I am missing something, if you can explain, i might be able to take it forward or can even ask Utkal not to do it in future, as I am the moderator of NG and I can also bring to notice of NG owner, and can deal with it effectively, and satyam also knows that, if you have any thing controversial you can refer to me, i will try to deal with it in a mediating manner.
Regards,
Rooney!
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May 31, 2012 at 2:43 PM
Rooney Sir, i don’t have a problem with Utkal and i don’t know anything about NG.My only problem was that why the term ‘Satyamshot’ was used in the first line itself of that piece, i did not find it incidental, i may be wrong. also i have noticed that the person who made this statement (Bored) comes here only when an Abhishek film is about to release and starts trash abt abhishek and the film. beyond that i don’t know anything abt all this, bor do i care.and i don’t think u need to take it forward. regards
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May 31, 2012 at 2:31 PM
LOL but what i have a problem is why is some other blog using this comment to indirectly malign SS. i never see the same happening here. i don’t know if there is an issue between both the blogs but all said and done, i found the above piece in bad taste. what was the need of quoting something from this blog? now Satyam don’t tell me this was just a coincidence and there was no foul-play involved. anyway it just troubled so i thought i should tell u abt it
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May 31, 2012 at 2:37 PM
@saurabh:
Comment by Bored is published by Utkal (member and commentor of satyamshot and Naachgaana)
Frankly i fail to see the foul play, as regards utkal being involved, as i guess he is a gentleman, and a person who would straightaway say what he feels about any person/movie/blog (and use imdb ratings wherever available 😉 )
So as far as you also know Utkal from comments here i guess u will know him, he is not that snide type of a member, he has just taken a quote and opened a debate or thread elsewhere.
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May 31, 2012 at 2:50 PM
Rooney Sir, i never knew u it was published by Utkal and i definitely know that Utkal is not that kind of a guy- he seems like a very gentlemanly sort of person. i just did not like the name of SS being involved unnecessarily. Anyway i don’t know anything abt this and i am least interested in getting involved in a controversy. so can we leave this topic, it was my fault and i may have misunderstood this. regards
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May 31, 2012 at 2:36 PM
Satyam, where do you see Abhishek as a commercial star in the next 3-4 years? Also what are your best and worst case scenario for him?
Speaking for myself, I’m afraid he is no longer viable as a mainstream-solo-star and I don’t see that changing in the future as well. The window of opportunity he’d to establish himself in a certain bracket of top stars has now closed.
Why am I so pessimistic about him?…..He seems to be the antithesis of what today’s audience expects from their stars. One can lament the taste of the audience, but at the end of the day that’s the audience he has to impress. This is a very serious matter for a commercial hero, unless you become so successful that you create a new paradigm. For someone looking for salvation in Bol Bachchan that might be unrealistic, to put it mildly. Other worrisome thing is that even after 13 years, he doesn’t have any sizable base. There isn’t anything for him to build on going forward. Forget about top stars, even an Emraan Hashmi or Abhay Deol has carved out a niche for himself, has a core constituency.
I also think this hope on Bol Bachchan to revive Abhishek’s box-office bonafides might be a bit misplaced. From the posters and trailers it’s clear that despite the bufonery Ajay is the ‘hero’ in traditional sense and Abhishek the ‘joker’. They both may be equally central to the movie, but Abhishek’s character deconstructs his stardom – afterall for a significant portion of the movie he seems to be playing a very feminine (or is that caricaturishly gay?) character there in service of easy laughs! I thought only side-heroes do that type of role, say a Ritesh Deshmukh.
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May 31, 2012 at 3:32 PM
let me take your last paragraph first. Note how actually Devgan’s role here is the perfect deconstruction of his Singham outing. I’d say Abhishek’s ‘gay’ bit here seems to deconstruct his own Dostana role in the same sense while the other guy belongs to a more Bachchanesque genealogy. In other words it’s very obviously a caricature. It’s a stereotype and not played like Dostana (barring a few scenes there where again caricature was resorted to).
Your first longer paragraph makes an important point. It is of course true that it’s not about this or that film, not about this or that role but the fact that Abhishek by way of his choices in every sense imaginable argues against the ‘dispensation’ of the present. Which is to say that especially with the multiplex audience he quite often conveys one way or the other that he doesn’t quite share their values. And this is very tricky. Because as you point out quite rightly whatever one might think of the audience the optimal box office result can only come about with the collaboration of this audience.
I’d however disagree about the ‘base’ question here. It is certainly true that Abhishek has damaged himself quite fatally in many respects but I don’t see people like Hashmi and Abhay Deol as having a base in any true sense. They are basically ‘symbols’ of certain kinds of cinema. The audience shows up for some of these films for the overall package not because they’re that interested in the actors otherwise. Of course success breeds success so even such stars can increase their initial by doing certain genres. So for example soft porn via Mahesh Bhatt seems to have a market. You throw in a mystery, a hit soundtrack.. Hashmi then has that association. over time the numbers pick up. But not every star who is even much more successful than these two necessarily has a base. Some are stars in a much more general sense. The best example of this for a long time has been in fact Aamir! He’s done it slowly by building up prestige but he’s not the post QSQT or post Dil guy. He abandoned that paradigm a long time ago. when his films release the audience thinks it will be good irrespective of genre. He’s kept enlarging the audience that trusts him. But they’re not crazy about him in the same way that they might have been about SRK or are today about Salman. Even with all the enormous success he has had and even with some very good performances note how he doesn’t really have a truly iconic one. But it’s fair to say that Aamir’s path cannot be easily replicated.
The question then becomes: if Abhishek is not really doing it some of these ways (in other words either satisfying important segments of his audience with a certain kind of cinema or being much better at the different like Aamir) what is the alternative? I must confess this is a tough question to answer. I disagree on the significance of Bol Bachchan for him but I won’t repeat everything I’ve already said on this. However the crucial point here is that Bol Bachchan might not necessarily lead to another film like it. In other words we saw Devgan after years slowly build his base with Golmaal and then do some dramatic roles along the way, essentially he kept repeating what worked, he too has now jumped on the remake bandwagon. Suddenly he becomes a valuable asset. Abhishek is precisely the guy who’s not going to say even if Bol Bachchan is a massive success: ‘what else can I do within this larger genre that will then get me an even bigger initial or whatever’? Great initials come with repetition. The audience knows exactly what to expect. Even if you’re very successful film after film it is difficult to get the strongest initials without the right genres. So again Aamir got massive initials for Ghajini and 3I or earlier MP. He didn’t get them for RDB or Lagaan (though these were very good on their own). and of course by now his prestige is so high that he can just get the biggest initial possible for any given genre.
There are two ways forward as I see it. Either he starts erring more on the side of the very commercial and keeps his box office elevated or he starts doing a wiser mix after he has some success behind him. The reason this is a hard question to answer (and this gets to some of your comment as well) is because one can never underestimate the force of box office logic when the box office is strong enough. So take 2004/05 when Abhishek was doing very well. He walked away from all this rather early in terms of not repeating what had worked enough (though he of course didn’t expect what he did take on to fail) but either way he had not maximized his box office by that point. In other words had he done three films like BnB he might have found it harder to walk away. And so on with some of the other genres. Because the logic of the overwhelming success really pushes a star in a certain direction and the entire market does the same as well. Let’s say hypothetically that Bol Bachchan is a huge grosser and Abhishek gets a lot of credit as well. Then either Shetty or someone like him comes to Abhishek with a similar sort of thing, the whole masala-comedy format. Does he do it then or now? if he does he is potentially on to bigger success. If not it could be another speed-breaker depending on what’s next. But it need not be the very same thing. He has D3 after this, if Businessman goes ahead he will suddenly be seen as someone hitching himself much more on the masala side of things. Then if he does a film with Balki he will have a greater initial here with a director who’s already made two successful films and once he’s through that he will be associated with good films (meaning films that satisfied one audience base or the other).
the reason I stretch out this hypothetical scenario is twofold. On the one hand one cannot underestimate just how much this industry turns on a dime. Think about it this way — did anyone every expect Aamir to be in such a position in the 90s? Did anyone ever expect Salman to suddenly come back in such titanic fashion after so many years in the wilderness? Did one really expect Devgan to do so well and have a Singham moment? When these things happen people retroactively say that these guys were always stars and so on. But of course no one was predicting this when it didn’t happen! Despite the fact that some of these stars were rightly or wrongly questioned far less than Abhishek. It’s always very hard to predict these things. Or take Hrithik. He’s been one of the biggest stars since his debut but all these years later he has in a sense never proved more than what he did with his very first film! He’s been stagnant at that level. He’s tried different stuff. He’s had both success and failure. He can still excite the box office crazily but he’s never been able to decisively jump ahead of the other top stars which was once the promise. No one expected Akshay to suddenly hit it big with comedies after not doing much before this (and despite getting hits from time to time). So success can suddenly change things. Hitchcock famously said that actors were like cattle and that they had to be led. In the same sense the audience’s perception of a star can change overnight with the right kind of success (it can be one iconic film or it can be a series of them). In any case in a lot of these debates the post-success star is written back into the pre-success one. And people then try to find all kinds of ‘clues’ that make the present ‘surprise’ comprehensible. It’s nothing of the sort. The unexpected success is like the event, it just creates its own logic.
the other reason I laid that out is that Abhishek’s greatest strengths and weaknesses are in a sense the very same. Leaving aside what I think of him it’s clear that from Rathnam and Mehra to Shetty and Abbas-Mustaan the industry has high regard for him and thinks him capable of handling just about anything. What this means is that in the absence of devotion to box office glory (which would then force Abhishek to choose certain genres over others) he can as easily do a Mehra as a Shetty. But of course one path is much more risky as we’ve learnt over the years. But it’s nonetheless a strength in the sense that any time he’s successful he’ll still have the best directors in any genre always looking to have him on a shortlist of possibilities. This is not true for every star, even the top ones. And ultimately hasn’t this saved him so far even in the worst of times? He either had true marquee prestige names or he had those of a lower order. When you have Raavan that doesn’t work and when you then have a Gowariker film to follow even though everyone know the latter will not make a hit most days specially with that subject and even though people have doubts about Abhishek’s own box office capacity to pull it off there is nonetheless a certain prestige attached to this kind of project. It means something even though the audience might not be interested at all. And Gowariker is an extreme example. In most other cases this doesn’t happen. So time and time again he’s been in trouble but he’s always had a project that seemed promising. Recently he had Players which seemed pretty safe all things considered. It didn’t work out. But now he has the title part in Shetty production! So there’s always something high profile (prestige or commercial) or at least something that makes good ‘news’ even when it doesn’t mean much. I wanted him to do the Jha film for the obvious reasons. It of course wouldn’t have worked. But this is again the sort of prestige that doesn’t harm one. To be more precise usually when stars are down and out they end up like Salman and Devgan. The projects are terrible. B grade or worse. Even when the films work in a limited sense they don’t mean anything. So Garv or Tere Naam don’t do anything for Salman. The industry doesn’t suddenly start considering him for all kinds of stuff. He has to minimally produce a Wanted if not a Dabanng for that sea change to take place. Abhishek has never really been in that position. He very often has projects that mean something one way or the other. Which is why note for example how some people come and start attacking him when the Jha film is announced or the Gowariker earlier or whatever. You hear the usual shenanigans about how his father is helping him and what not. Because even these partisans intuit that it means something to be able to land these films. If Abhishek were reduced to Garv level people would stop staying stuff. But he always seems to be in that dark horse position precisely because he always has a credible project or two lined up.
All of this doesn’t mean he hasn’t suffered great damage. Clearly he hasn’t excited the audience in a very long time. And more important even with a big one he will have to be more clear about his path going forward in terms of a longer arc. Nothing is ‘necessary’ either way. there are always possibilities. Some more likely than others. But this works either way. The greatest success could ‘not’ have happened and vice versa. Just take RDB/Guru v D6/Raavan. If you flip the order (i.e. the director delivering a hit film and then a flop) suddenly the whole history is very different. We don’t know where Abhishek would be if Guru had flopped, we don’t know where he’d be if Raavan had worked. Again once things happen they seem necessary but that’s not the ‘truth’ of history. There are always many possibilities.
I would say that I continue to be bullish on Abhishek but I also now see where the path of failure could potentially lie for him. Because I’ve learned from his failures things about him but also about his audience. So if nothing ever quite worked out for him I wouldn’t be as surprised as I once might have been is someone had suggested the possibility.
But as for the rest about what the audience currently thinks and what the trade folks are saying and so on I don’t give this stuff much importance. The audience really does follow the box office. Their perceptions do change overnight. Even on the blogosphere I’ve seen folks who never predicted any kind of success for certain stars who then started behaving as if they’d expected this all along once this happened. People lack enough introspection for most part and worse still real memory. Which is why all it takes is the right film. Things are nonetheless more complicated for Abhishek precisely because unlike other stars he is not certain to follow a hit formula. At the same time I have never been bothered by or taken seriously stuff like ‘he’s really not a star’ and what not. For very many reasons I have gotten into before.
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May 31, 2012 at 3:52 PM
Satyam agreed with everything here apart from the fact that u have clubbed devgan with salman. even when devgan was going thru a low phase in early and middle part of the last decade, he still had those prestigious directors working with him-whether it was jha or rituparno ghosh or manjrekar or santoshi or ramu or rathnam or vishal(irrespective of the box-office fate of those films). salman never had this cushion.even today he was offered bhardwaj’s “matru ki bijli” and by neeraj pandey’s ‘special chhabis’
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May 31, 2012 at 4:01 PM
that’s true Saurabh.. Salman was never considered an actor. And this kept him afloat for a while even though most of the films didn’t do well. You’re making my point. When I clubbed him with Salman I just meant the box office there more than anything else. People who ask today how much KHJJS grossed should also ask how much Raincoat grossed! and so on with other Devgan films. Not making fun of him. Just saying that if he was more of a star than Abhishek shouldn’t some of this stuff ought to have done better? My point here is that by the time he started doing those films his Phool aur Kaante history was over. No one extra audience member was showing up for those films because of that older memory. Much as Abhishek’s BnB or Guru history are today over. He has to do it all over again. Not one extra person will show up today because of those older films. The same goes for Salman when he was doing Garv or whatever. No one showed up because they remembered MPK. No one showed up in the multiplexes even as late as Wanted for that reason. This is why a star has to get it done again and again. Nothing lasts forever.
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May 31, 2012 at 4:14 PM
Satyam again very valid points here. but the fact during 90’s when devgan or akshay’s films were not working well, they were also never offered ‘big-scale commercial or off-beat projects’ (save a Mohra)-they were never even considered A-list actors unlike Abhishek- this changed only for devgan after he got zakhm. Abhishek has gotten both (let’s say a Players/game and raavan), yet those films have failed miserably- now if so many projects of such scale r flopping, what is the option left with abhishek
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May 31, 2012 at 5:11 PM
The options remain as long as he keeps getting the films! So he was just offered the Jha film, he then got out of it. And Bol Bachchan is about to release. The Businessman remake was confirmed recently as well.
The thing is that if the A list films dry off it’s much harder to get that comeback effort. That’s not been the case with Abhishek so far.
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May 31, 2012 at 4:21 PM
Now whenever Devgan got a slightly bigger project it worked in one way or the other- whether in 90s it was Ishq or Pyaar To Hona Hi tha or HDDCS or zakhm or even Thakshak. this ratio becomes better when we talk abt last decade- when he got important films of Jha and Santoshi which again worked at some level. And then for once he got proper big commercial films like Qayamat or Golmaal series or OUTAIM or singham- they worked at box-office. but sadly that is not happening with abhi.
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May 31, 2012 at 5:41 PM
In HDDCS Devgan wasn’t the only star. He probably got more out of it than Salman though. Zakhm didn’t do anything. Thakshak was a total flop. I’ve said this before also. All those different films were flops almost without exception. It is completely untrue to say that those films worked to any degree. I can really go over the numbers film by film. Devgan has no better record than Abhishek doing the different, he doesn’t even have a Guru. The same is true for SRK who actually did try stuff like Dil Se and Asoka and Swades and Paheli. Everything failed. Pyar to Hona hi Tha was a successful film, a solid hit for sure. Qayamat was one of those plus films that wasn’t really a hit. But Devgan had a number of plus films around that time that were sometimes peddled as hits. Qayamat did only as much as Bhoot. This was a good gross for a genre like the latter but hardly great for the former. You look at the top grossers that year, hit or not, and Qayamat is way behind (as is Chalte Chalte, another film that was falsely sold as a hit and even by the usual low standards of the trade this was an extraordinary distortion, did well overseas though).
But again the problem is that despite this better phase of commercial films Devgan still didn’t really get anywhere in terms of true A list projects. He really reinvented himself mostly with Rohit Shetty and that too by a process of accumulation. And more important here in some ways was OUATIM, a lesser grosser but with more meaning attached to the success. Singham though is easily his best moment since his debut film. Again note how Pyar to hona hi tha also didn’t lead to much at all. This is the difference I keep highlighting with respect to Abhishek. His success, even his failures have led to great projects, however these eventually turned out. Devgan wasn’t often given that chance. Ergo, the industry didn’t value him as highly. And while he did have some important stuff with prestige directors there isn’t one, not one that ‘meant’ as much all things considered as Rakeysh Mehra’s D6 after RDB or a Mani Rathnam film after Yuva or after Guru. He was in Yuva but didn’t have the best part. So I’m not forgetting the Santoshi stuff or Zakhm or Bhardwaj and so on. Just that it didn’t mean quite the same thing then. Just as when Aamir did Earth it didn’t quite have the same prestige as many of his later films. Sarfarosh was even a success after a slow start but again wasn’t an RDB in the prestige sweepstakes. So one can’t just talk about this stuff in the abstract. The meaning of each film is precise. Doing films with Jha before Rajneeti isn’t quite the same as doing films with him after this film. So even with prestige names one has to look at the projects. The Milha film doesn’t mean what D6 did at the time!
This keeps getting back to my central point. People just have this imaginary sense of these other stars. I’ve argued about Devgan or Sunny or Salman in different ways. The point isn’t about Abhishek. That debate can begin when there is an accurate picture of these other stars! The connection with Abhishek is only this that when you do different you fail more often than not. Other than Aamir there is no other star currently working in the industry who disproves this theory. Abhishek just did things in a cluster. Also note that a lot of these films became big because he too was seen as an important star. This too is a step people often miss. D6 was a big film, Raavan was a big one. A lot of these things became big for the director and the project but also because he was part of it. Specially with D6 I think this was just a small film that was sold the wrong way. Not saying it would have worked otherwise but it’s not the Raavan deal. With the latter I can think of certain important tweaks that would make it successful. I can’t imagine any such thing with D6. My point is a similar one with JBJ. When you do spoofs or films that are even on the borderline they almost inevitably fail. The proof: Akshay even in a much stronger phase did no better with Tashan or CCTC and more recently proved the same with TMK! RGV’s films don’t require Abhishek to not work! He just makes the sort of film that even when it does well is a limited grosser even on its best day. Again the best example is Company. The media hyped this a lot. It did no more than Yuva, probably less. And even in RGV’s key territories (Bombay, the South) this was no Satya. So on and so forth. Abhishek’s problem is that he did all of this stuff together. Almost as if he were collecting the riskiest films in every category! This hurt him obviously. You can’t offer this sort of excuse. Nonetheless this ‘was’ the excuse for a long time even with distributors who knew that these films couldn’t have worked with anyone. However it got to a point where even his safer films were hurt. After Raavan the initial disappeared. Game should have opened better for that genre. DMD too. and of course Players. So he did dig himself into a hole. But that doesn’t mean that those films were working with anyone else. Ultimately it’s damage to the star however it comes but one has to be precise about what the films really mean. No star was doing better with these subjects barring Aamir (though note that even Aamir cannot make D6 run, he just doesn’t do a D6! he has an uncanny sense of how far the different can be pushed or how scripts can work.. this is enormous but it’s still different from saying that ‘x’ film would work with another star.. greater initials are a different matter.. that’s hardly about a film being accepted).
I also think Abhishek’s graph has been greatly exaggerated by the media again going by historical standards. No one was asking where Salman’s or Devgan’s initial was when they failed for years, whether at commercial or other kinds of stuff. Abhishek in this period between Guru and the present has had decent or plus films or sometimes better with SR, DMD, Paa, Dostana. These successes are obviously not big enough or ‘solo’ enough to make up for the much bigger failures but Devgan or Salman would have given an arm and a leg to have some of these films in their very lean years!
All of this doesn’t change Abhishek’s reality today, until he gets real success. But analysis requires that we remain true to the record. With any other star those very same films that were just plus or better would have been celebrated by the trade as great successes. We’ve seen this happen many times before.
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May 31, 2012 at 5:49 PM
Satyam, by Thakshak and Zakhm, i meant they did well critically esp Zakhm. now with abhishek, even when his performance is praised, the film is not- case in point being yuva
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May 31, 2012 at 8:07 PM
yes but Yuva did better than most of those Devgan failures if not all (referring to critically acclaimed stuff). As I said it did slightly better than Company as an absolute grosser. Of course Devgan was in both films. The true Abhishek failures in this sense are D6 and Raavan where he was critically mauled as well! On the other hand take the more recent DMD where the film irrespective of the expectations was still on the whole not too bad relative to budget (it did more than Players), the film got decent or better reviews but Abhishek was better reviewed than the film. By and large there’s a strong correlation between his critical acclaim, even at a relative level, and the box office of his films, again at least at some relative level. because when the media/trade smells a total failure they criticize him mercilessly.
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May 31, 2012 at 4:56 PM
What i mean here is that if let’s say a Bas Itna Sa Khwaab Hai or Run flops, it was not that big a problem for Abhishek because for him there were bigger things to look forward. But if a Players or Raavan fails, one cannot go much bigger than this. That said, i believe Bol Bachchan can change things for him. But what i believe can get him back into the game is a solo YRF film. BnB remains the only ‘hardcore solo commercial hit’ of Abhi and was a defining film for his persona. he needs something like this
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June 6, 2012 at 7:14 AM
I don’t believe BB will do the trick for Abhishek. I still think the audience are finished with him in a solo film. If he’s clever, he should become a producer (cash in on the family name ) or become a character actor and do side roles and then he can build up a fanbase and do small budget movies.
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May 31, 2012 at 9:43 PM
Off Topic – these pictures are hilarious
RoboMania in Japan
Endhiran released in Japan a couple of weeks ago… Its mania continues… The film got 4 star reviews from major publications in the country.
Right now in its 3rd week, it is still running to packed houses all over the country. The list of theatres it is presently being screened right now…
http://abhiash.tumblr.com/post/24143291044/robomania-in-japan
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June 1, 2012 at 6:21 AM
The problem with Abhishek much like when Big b’s first Slump started is his rigidity and refusal to change with Time!! There is never an effort to change his look or physique. Also he went for bigger films just when his base was building up!! A lot is said about Aamirs coice of films in past decade but what really helped him his commercial films of 90’s which what contributes so much to his base !! Regardless of your pedigree without a solid foundation you cant build a skyscraper
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June 1, 2012 at 4:57 PM
Twitch FIlms – Trailer Alerts
Exploding Cars! Crazy Misunderstandings! Mustaches! This Is BOL BACHCHAN!
by J Hurtado, June 1, 2012
This is Bol Bachchan.
I’ve now watched the trailer half a dozen times and I don’t understand a lick of what’s going on. As a matter of fact, after watching it the fifth time I said “uncle” and requested a synopsis from the publicist, who kindly agreed and sent me this:
Abbas Malik lives in Karol Bagh, New Delhi with his sister Sania. They are legally fighting for an ancestral property – land case. But the odds turn against them and they lose. Their well wisher, Shastri Chacha, advises and convinces them to migrate to his village Ranakpur where he assures Abbas that he will get him a job at his owner’s place. The owner being none other than the powerful Prithviraj Raghuvanshi. Abbas enters Ranakpur village and while saving a child trapped inside a temple, he breaks open the lock of an ancestral temple but fate plays an important twist in Abbas’ life as the whole village including Prithviraj’s step-brother Vikrant opposes Abbas’ actions but Prithviraj arrives and handles the situation. On being asked his name, Abbas’s friend comes out with a fake name, as it would create a rage if villagers came to know that the lock of a temple had been broken by a Muslim. From here starts a series of cover-ups, goof-ups and comic situations where to cover one lie, Abbas starts padding up with a bigger lie telling people that he also has a twin brother with no moustache. From here on starts the topsy-turvy journey of a single person acting as two different entities.
As you can see, this completely clears it all up…
However, in spite of my continuing confusion, I still want to watch the hell out of this film for a few simple reasons. Number one, this is the latest collaboration between director Rohit Shetty and star Ajay Devgn, who’ve had massive success in the past with really entertaining films like those in the Golmaal series, and last summer’s surprise hit Singham. Number two, the film appears to be a comedy and co-stars Abhishek Bachchan, who should ONLY EVER BE IN COMEDIES because he’s actually really good in them. Number three, they blow up a whole fucking bunch of cars in the trailer. Number four, that fantastic physics defying action that I love so much. Lastly, number five, pretty colors.
Check out the loud and exciting trailer for Bol Bachchan and try to understand what it means without reality collapsing in on you, I dare you.
Bol Bachchan opens worldwide on July 6th.
http://twitchfilm.com/news/2012/06/exploding-cars-crazy-misunderstandings-mustaches-this-is-bol-bachchan.php
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June 1, 2012 at 5:06 PM
actually that synopsis is quite interesting and would have made for a really good film.. ALAS.. it’s Rohit Shetty! After reading the plot I wish someone like Shaad Ali had directed this.
Incidentally the plot should clear some more of the ‘confusion’ surrounding Abhishek’s part! LOL!
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June 2, 2012 at 11:04 AM
The curious case of Asin and Prachi in BOL BACHCHAN
June 2, 2012 02:39:08 PM IST
By Glamsham Editorial
Though one could well imagine Ajay Devgn and Abhishek Bachchan to be dominating the initial segment of BOL BACHCHAN promotion, the latest development is around Amitabh Bachchan’s ‘item song’ being unveiled first. This only makes one further wonder whether pretty girls Asin and Prachi are happy with the developments.
“Asin as well as Prachi were sorely missed by many when they had a miniscule appearance in the theatrical promo of the film. Even though it lasted close to three minutes, it was all about Ajay and Abhishek. Worse, neither Asin nor Prachi had even a single dialogue to their credit,” says an observer.
To be fair to the film though, since it is neither a quintessential romcom nor an emotional musical tale, it can’t be expected to have female leads at the forefront. With the entire ‘golmaal’ revolving around Ajay and Abhishek, the makers have seemingly pitched the film for what it is.
CHECK OUT: Asin all set to challenge Kareena Kapoor!
An industry insider has a different point of view though. He says, “Even Kareena Kapoor had a miniscule role in 3 IDIOTS, another male dominated film. Similarly Katrina Kaif too didn’t have much to do in ZINDAGI NAA MILEGI DOBARA and only had an extended guest appearance. Still, neither Rajkumar Hirani nor Zoya Akhtar kept them in the background. Now Asin is being seen after delivering three blockbusters like HOUSEFULL 2, READY and GHAJINI, each of which has scored over 100 crores each. Her presence does add weight and she should have been more prominent.”
As things stand today though, it would have to wait since the Amitabh Bachchan song is expected to play on for another week at least with added emphasis on the theatrical promo to fetch as many eyeballs as possible. In all likelihood, it would be only towards mid-June when the girls would find a much better placement for themselves. Till then, it is pretty much a wait and watch situation for all involved.
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June 2, 2012 at 5:10 PM
The Synopsis is straight out of Manmohan Desai’s brand of Films but alas dont trust Rohit Shetty
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June 2, 2012 at 6:23 PM
yes absolutely.. Desai would have done wonders with this.. Rohit Shetty will ultimately err on the side of his brand of comedy and so these interesting angles will never quite be developed. Nonetheless it is yet another instance of the Bachchan signature informing things in that only when it’s Abhishek that a director who otherwise just made Singham (a film which was much more problematic than the original in terms of its political coding and so on.. I would say in line with the Devgan signature!) suddenly goes ‘Desai-esque’ on this film.
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June 3, 2012 at 12:43 AM
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June 3, 2012 at 1:05 AM
part 2
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/more/videos/view/id/1444395
part 3
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/more/videos/view/id/1445632
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June 3, 2012 at 1:15 AM
http://www.boxofficeindia.co.in/%E2%80%9Cwatching-bol-bachchan-will-be-like-a-family-picnic%E2%80%9D/
“Was picturising the title track on Amitabh Bachchan a gimmick?
What gimmick? People associated with the project always knew this song was part of the film. From the inception itself, we had decided to have this song on Amit-ji. It is just that we shot it after we completed the entire film. This has prompted people to say it was to woo a bigger audience. Obviously, the presence of Amit-ji, even in the song, enhances the prospects of the film.
The title of the film is Bol Bachchan and it also has Abhishek Bachchan. So how can this film be complete if we don’t have Amit-ji?”
“Looking back… Rohit Shetty started his career with Zameen, which had Abhishek Bachchan and you in the lead?
Sometimes, things just fall into place and a project happens. This was not the first time Rohit thought of brining us together. Before this, either the character didn’t suit Abhishek or there was another reason why we didn’t work together. But this time, with this title, we knew it had to be Abhishek. And everything worked just right.
Since Abhishek and I have known each other for years, the chemistry on screen is outstanding. So many people have told me that we look good together on-screen. Real-life bonding helps on screen.”
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June 3, 2012 at 11:14 PM
Ormax Media@OrmaxMedia
Cinematix Movie Of The Week (June 3): BOL BACHCHAN. With just a teaser promo on-air, the campaign is already tracking better than Teri Meri Kahaani. The Buzz is higher than all unreleased films except Ek Tha Tiger.
http://m.tmi.me/r2GdR
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June 4, 2012 at 11:49 AM
Can’t stand these guys, specially Shailesh Kapoor who’s associated with them. Of course the film’s buzz has been obvious ever since the first trailer released and has even surprised me. I wasn’t expecting this even if I was expecting big numbers. It’s really been the double garnering the attention which for a change even the media confirmed by mostly focusing on it!
Note how as Abhishek’s prominence has become obvious and as Rohit Shetty has made even the job of the worst partisans much harder by hitting everyone on the head with the ‘Bachchan’ deal (for those who didn’t get it!) in every which way there has been the odd negative piece or two. Joginder I think had a piece called ‘Is Rohit shetty taking Golmaal too seriously?’ I actually wish he had! We would have seen a better film! But in any case since this was always being peddled as a Golmaal remake (though Shetty made clear he had the central idea from there not the entire script) why is it a surprise all of a sudden?! Tons of other remakes, even those with lines and songs from the original, never gave rise to such pieces.
And here the flip side is that those who are happy to peddle this only as Devgan versus Shetty (even if the film made 500 crores these guys would say it’s all this combo with Abhishek not even contributing a rupee.. !) will turn on a dime if the film doesn’t work and will then only be too happy to say that ‘hey he gave Abhishek too much here, had this really been Devgan’s film this wouldn’t have happened’! We’ve seen variations of this script before! When it’s a hit it’s a multistarrer, when it’s a failure it’s all on him! I’ve heard a few anecdotes about people who are not Abhishek fans wondering why Devgan is doing this! Because everyone knows what the deal here is by now!
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June 4, 2012 at 11:41 AM
Yes Vijay ML, this is indeed the complete song. Earlier the longer version was 4.49, this is 5.21. It adds those lines at the beginning with Devgan and Abhishek and provides the right build-up for Bachchan emerging from the egg and of course that’s fabulous Bachchan stuff at the very end!
Continue to find Devgan’s presence very odd in the song. The whole song is so much about ‘Bachchanism’ as Qalandar would say that he seems superfluous to the proceedings. However he is of course one of the leads in the film and hence needed to be part of the title song but then it shouldn’t have been about ‘Bachchan’. Then again the film is also called ‘Bol Bachchan’.
As I’ve said before if one knew nothing else one would wonder why Devgan had agreed to do a role in this film which looks like a Bachchan setup. Even if one knew the box office stories of both leads one could still think this was a Bachchan venture with Devgan probably owing something to the Bachchans and providing box office safety. One think is clear — irrespective of how one judges this there is no way most top stars would agree to do his role here with the greater Bachchan symbolism attached to the film. A two hero film is one thing (that itself most would not agree to with Abhishek having the ‘double’) but with the whole Bachchan angle added to it (and the way the synopsis outlines the respective parts) can’t think of someone else agreeing to it. To be fair, and I’ve said this before, Devgan himself probably wouldn’t agree to it with any other star.
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June 4, 2012 at 3:37 PM
Rumour
B-Naseer in a film?
Vivek Agnihotri pulls off a coup of sorts, with both acting titans apparently agreeing to do his new film
Finally, the two acting titans, Amitabh Bachchan and Naseeruddin Shah are all set to work together in a film.
While they have not officially signed on the dotted line, Vivek Agnihotri is planning to bring them together in Twelve, his remake of Sidney Lumet’s 12 Angry Men (1957) that itself was based on a teleplay.
And that’s not all. Agnihotri is also keen to cast, along with Om Puri, Paresh Rawal and Boman Irani, Pankaj Kapur and Annu Kapoor. Reason being that the last two featured in Ek Ruka Hua Faisla, Basu Chatterjee’s adaptation of the film and the teleplay.
The filmmaker conceded that he had spoken to everyone from Big B and Naseer to Paresh and Boman. “It’s a brilliant story, the action of which takes place within the confines of a single room. It’s a classic play and every time it’s been made into a film, it has won laurels,” says Agnihotri. However, the director is not going to start work on the film soon. As he reveals, “In fact, I’m planning to make another script. I’ll start Twelve sometime end of this year.”
Ashutosh returns to acting
Interestingly, the film also marks the return of Ashutosh Gowariker to acting. He had earlier starred in Kundan Shah’s Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa (1993). And the last time he faced the camera was in the detective series CID (1998-99). Agnihotri says, “With age and experience, I’m sure he’ll be a treat to watch.”
http://www.mid-day.com/entertainment/2012/may/290512-Big-B-Naseer-in-a-film.htm
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June 4, 2012 at 3:41 PM
wow..this would be a treat to watch for sure…will naseer’s ego let him work with Big B though?
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June 4, 2012 at 3:44 PM
wow this will be a treat to watch for sure! will naseer’s ego let him be owned by big b though?
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June 4, 2012 at 5:32 PM
not keen on this….a bunch of old men in 1 room..hmmm?
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June 4, 2012 at 11:51 PM
Having seen the title song I am left completely speechless. I mean the song is so bad it’s not even funny. However, big B saves the song from complete embarrassment and dances better than both Ajay and Abhi.
who has given the music for this film??
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June 5, 2012 at 12:06 AM
apna himesh and the team of ajay-atul. not sure who did this song though. i agree…big b saves the song with his voice and dance.
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June 5, 2012 at 12:13 AM
@ AamirsFan – thanks for the info 🙂
I will be shocked if this song has been given by Himesh and Ajay Atul gave a good account of themselves in Agneepath particularly the Sonu Nigam song.
Seeing the names attached to the film the music should be damn good so what has happened here……. I think and I say this as this was the last thing shot for the film that Rohit Shetty has rushed this and just included the song for promotional purposes.
P.S I have never come across a song being fully released like this or has it happened before??
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June 5, 2012 at 12:43 AM
you’re right…i’ve never seen a FULL VIDEO song released like this as a promo. i’m trying to remember if they did this in the 90’s but i can’t remember. anyway, i read(i think the story is in this thread or the other bol bachchan thread) that ajay devgn planned to bring in big b a long time ago, it’s just that they shot this song after the movie was wrapped up. to me it was a no brainer bringing in bachchan…
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June 5, 2012 at 6:16 AM
Think Ajay-Atul just have one song if I’m not mistaken. A Marathi hit of theirs that has been used here. believe this is Himesh’s. According to Shetty the film just has three songs while the CD has an additional one. Not sure if he includes the title song when he says this. In terms of complete songs yes this has been done before. It typically happens when either it’s an end credits song or a music video version of one that otherwise occurs in the film as well. Not sure whether in this case the title song is at the beginning or part of the end credits.
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June 5, 2012 at 12:20 PM
The next promo is the Ajay-Asin Song http://www.boxofficeindia.co.in/ajay-devgn-dancer-pahalwan-in-bol-bachchan/
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June 5, 2012 at 1:17 PM
heard a bit of this.. there was a youtube I posted, perhaps in this very thread, where there are snippets of all the songs.
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June 5, 2012 at 10:41 PM
Jr. B pays tribute to Big B in Bol Bachchan
Source: DailyBhaskar.com | Last Updated 14:44(05/06/12)
If there is one superstar whose dialogues are etched in the mind of every cine-goer, it is indisputably Amitabh Bachchan. News has it that the title track of Rohit Shetty’s ‘Bol Bachchan’ has some of Big B’s cult dialogues sung by Abhishek Bachchan.
The title track, which features the magnificent trio of Big B along with Ajay Devgn and Abhishek Bachchan is a peppy and fun song. The track, which is also sung by the trio, has a number of Big B’s famous one-liners which are being mouthed by none other than Jr Bachchan. Abhishek has added his own flavour to iconic lines like ‘Mard Ko Dard Nahi Hota’ and ‘Daaru Peene Se Liver Kharab Hota Hai’.
This is the first time in the history of Indian cinema that these three actors have come together for a song and their chemistry is definitely something to look out for. Ajay Devgn stays true to his character in the movie and translates the Hindi one-liners into his style of broken English, which gets you laughing your guts out.
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June 5, 2012 at 10:44 PM
Rohit Shetty responding to criticism:
http://www.rediff.com/movies/slide-show/slide-show-1-to-those-who-think-of-bol-bachchan-as-crap-chill/20120605.htm
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June 6, 2012 at 7:32 PM
Alright, To some happy thoughts now. Here is the making of the song Bol Bachcchan. Njoy. Bol Bol Bol Bol Bol.
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June 7, 2012 at 11:31 AM
Bol bachchan-title song -the making
Thanx for posting the making of this song, kash..
For the first time, found something worthwhile ..
The songs not all that bad..
Bt what was endearing to watch was–
A) the genuinely good body language and ‘respect’ elicited by rohit shetty
B) the way bachchan Sr (not jr) still takes his job so seriously
C) bachchan sr didn’t go to his vanity van in between @ the age of 70!!!!
While his son….
D) dev gun perhaps isnt enjoying the shift in focus but he needs to be commended for allowing this in his onw home production
Summary
So much to learn from bachchan seniors work ethic !!!
Ps-this needs to be displayed more prominently in this thread
Ps2- Unlike how many had already declared this as a 100 crore earner, I have more than my doubts of much lesser gross..
But looking at this making, gives me the first good vibe till now..but is it enuf.
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June 7, 2012 at 6:56 AM
soundtrack:
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/moviemicro/musicreview/id/545484
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June 9, 2012 at 1:19 AM
the title song and ‘chalao na naino se’ are among my fave’s. the other two are average to bad. so far the music is sub par at best…
i agree with your statement that if they have left out jab se dekhi hai song in the film…thats a bad move. mohit chauhan is a popular singer and that song has potential to be ‘chart topper’.
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June 9, 2012 at 7:47 AM
well apparently Shetty said he never intended a fourth song and the music company insisted. My point is that he should add it even if he didn’t intend to! Again purely as a commercial move.
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June 7, 2012 at 11:25 AM
He’s showing all of the music in the trailers! The complete Bol Bachchan video. This seems to be complete too at 3 min, specially the way it ends. According to Shetty the film is two and a half hours. There are only three songs in the film (don’t know whether he includes the title song or not.. but one song is just for the CD) but either way that makes for a relatively longer film by contemporary standards on the non-musical portions.
On the songs not sure which one is left out of the film. Could be the Abhishek love song because the Devgan one’s here and there has been extensive publicity of the song that was shot with both pairs. Or rather it’s an Abhishek love song that Rohit Shetty never intended to have in the film probably because he said in the interview he added a fourth song on the CD only because the music guys wanted this. I personally think it would be smarter to have that song in the film if it isn’t. It has a certain Northern small center feel to it much like this one. It has the Muslim references and so on as well. But this current song could also be a kind of footage equalizer for Devgan. The synopsis suggests that the film begins with ABhishek character and Devgan doesn’t enter the proceedings till the temple crisis actually arises.
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June 7, 2012 at 4:49 PM
So the first solo song trailer is of the lead actor ajay devgan.Looks like a copy of 2-3 old songs.
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June 7, 2012 at 4:52 PM
I await the first solo scene of the hero going to the restroom… perhaps it will be Devgan..
hopefully Shetty will cut at the right time. Can’t speak for the women.
Never mind.. these metaphors are getting awfully mixed here!
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June 7, 2012 at 4:55 PM
Re: I await the first solo scene of the hero going to the restroom…
And break up the SRK fans’ raunch party ??
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June 7, 2012 at 5:07 PM
I am more than sure that sum of these so-called ‘devgn fans’ who make such ridiculous comments must not have seen even half of the films of his entire filmography. Wonder how just before Bol Bachchan’s release, there is such a huge addition in the number of Devgn fans. Interestingly these Devgn fans r never seen on ‘Son of Sardar’ thread.
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June 7, 2012 at 9:52 PM
“Chalao Na Naino Se” is probably one song that’s good in this album…..nice song..
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June 8, 2012 at 11:25 PM
Satyam ji,
Love to the song ” Chalao Na Naino Se” . Just listen “Jab Se Dekhi Hai ” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUREAOazb5w { Not official page } by Mohit Chauhan, Awesome .
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June 8, 2012 at 11:48 PM
that song might not be there in the film.
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June 9, 2012 at 1:10 AM
this is a fun song. unfortunately ajay devgn has totally taken the fun out of this song. he can’t pull this kind of song off…he is so stiff and seems like he is trying so hard to dance.
would’ve liked to see abhishek try this song but i guess its not for his character.
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June 13, 2012 at 2:13 AM
Heard somewhere that sanjay dutt will be starring in ‘SAAMY’ remake. was hopeful that Abhishek might do it’s remake… i do not know who are the advisors of Ab jr. he is missing very good movies from south that can be remade in hindi. atleast they themselves can produce and make the movies.
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June 13, 2012 at 6:50 PM
I’m all set and ready to watch Bol Bachchan. Have booked the tickets for the flight and hopefully watch it on the 11th or 12th. 🙂
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June 13, 2012 at 6:52 PM
Errrrm (clearing my throat ) 🙂
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June 14, 2012 at 1:28 PM
What!!! No Promo/trailer this week? The hype should be maintained here with one promo each week. It has been seen taht they have released a promo or making every thursday since the first trailer was out. They can’t afford to be slacking here.
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June 14, 2012 at 1:32 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/bollywood/news-interviews/We-Bachchans-are-not-a-package-deal-Abhishek-Bachchan/articleshow/14094538.cms
[interview in the Bol Bachchan image thread]
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June 14, 2012 at 8:34 PM
Some Bol Bachchan Promotional Videos I came across. Not bad.
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June 14, 2012 at 8:37 PM
A few more:
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June 16, 2012 at 7:12 AM
This is just an unbiased outside comment on Abishek from someone who rarely sees hindi cinema. Abishek is someone with average looks, average acting talent,( from the clips i saw from youtube & his commercials ) ,and very average charisma. The looks dosnt matter much if he can compensate with his acting talents ( like Dhanush) or with his charisma ( like Rajini). But he is medicore on all departments. But still he gets the cream of directors to work with and he still dosnt improve. Surya was similar to him when he entered filmdom. He came in with huge fanfare only to disappoint. He was medicore in acting for a few years and going downhill until Bala happened. The turnaround was dramatic and people were shocked literally that he can act and act like hell. Then he got to act with the cream of directors and he utilised them effectively and blossomed beautifully. He is now what he is today a totally different actor. This is also exactly the same story of Vikram. But this dosnt seem to be happening with Abishek who is just as medicore as ever inspite of all the opportunities he has got. People get tired of him after a time and when directors still are going after him they get a bit angry subconsiously at the injustice of it all. That is partly why his films flop left and right.
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June 16, 2012 at 7:50 AM
Hey come on. Don’t say such things. I find him very good looking, in a dignified, non flashy, NORMAL way, instead of what goes into the so called good looks of actors and actresses. 🙂
As for acting, he may not act well ‘all the time’ but he has acted well in quite a few fims.
He is in a world where for apparantly not much reason one is popular, and vice versa (in his case). Luck has to strike on him for things to change.
Do you really believe good acting makes one popular and successful?
BTW – are you saying you hardly watch hindi films and yet you know that he doesn’t act well (from ads and clips, LOL) – and that the very very few films that you watch are those of – Abhiskek’s, even though you don’t find him goodlooking, or a good actor (from ads and clips).
And one is supposed to consider this an unbiased view?
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June 16, 2012 at 10:11 AM
Its pretty sad that after acting in 40 films or so, Abhishek has only a couple of movies where he has acted well – Yuva and Guru. There are a couple more movies where his fans argue that the acting was good – but from a critical view those were plain average. And thats his main problem – as someone said above he is average in everything – be it apprearance or charm or acting – nothing stands out (except his surname). And thats so evident in the title of this film also – its called Bol ‘Bachchan’ – not Bol ‘Abhishek’. Rohit Shetty decided to market this film based on ‘Bachchan’ brand, hence Amitabh HAD to be brought in some capacity or the other. Its sad to see that someone here is still insisting that the name Bol ‘BACHCHAN’ means this is Abhishek’s movie. The promo alas gives more importance to Ajay who had been the lucky mascot in all of Shetty’s hits – and understandably so.
Anyways, Fox has acquired this movie for 95-100 cr. So even if this movie does 100 cr (if Akshay’s comedies can then why not this?) it will still hardly be able to break even.
The Vikram and Surya analogy are good – with all the chances Abhishek got with the better directors – its really sad that he could not get at least critical acclaim and notice in these (being average isnt good enuf when you get such chances) – leaving the box office aside.
Mediocrity can only go upto some extent, not all the way.
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June 16, 2012 at 10:19 AM
Lets put it this way – If Shetty had managed to rope in Shahrukh instead of Abhishek in this he would have named this Bol ‘Shahrukh’ NOT Bol ‘Khan’. 🙂
Similarly it wud had been Bol Aamir or Bol Akshay or Bol Hrithik. But since he casted Abhishek, it had to be Bol ‘Bachchan’ – and that says it all.
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June 16, 2012 at 10:25 AM
yes I recall Karan Johar’s film — My name is Shahrukh.
On the rest of your points hard to argue with ‘alternate reality’ versions of the truth! Whatever gets you through the day!
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June 23, 2012 at 5:41 AM
let the tales of hunt glorify the hunter, until lions have their historians.. wait till the movie releases…
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June 16, 2012 at 10:36 AM
http://www.boxofficeindia.co.in/%E2%80%9Ci-make-my-films-keeping-a-specific-audience-in-mind%E2%80%9D/
“Back to Bol Bachchan… You started your career with Zameen, which had Abhishek Bachchan and Ajay Devgn in the lead.
(Cuts in) Yes. And with Bol Bachchan, I am getting the duo back taaki, ek jo daag hai main use bhi mita doon. Abhishek is like a friend and brother, and I wanted to do a film with him. I found the right character for him in this film.
And the right title.
Yes. When I started writing the film, it had no title. I knew I wanted to work with Abhishek. So when he agreed to do the film, I zeroed in on this title. The common man will relate to his character as it’s very earthy. He has done a fabulous job. He is humble, sweet and lovable in the film.”
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June 22, 2012 at 8:50 PM
Shetty’s own words – ” ek jo daag hai main use bhi mita doon.”
And some people still claim that Zameen was not a Flop.
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June 16, 2012 at 10:38 AM
In MNIK ‘Khan’ was the token to Muslim vote as they say in politics – and thats what won KJO 100 cr overseas, even though it flopped in India. Its an all time blockbuster in territories like Indonasia and UAE.
Here ‘Bachchan’ isnt being used to titillate the Hindu viewers (not from the context of the story if you get my drift) just a tool to use Bachchan brandname to market it. Not too incomprehensible a polemic here.
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June 16, 2012 at 10:38 AM
as I said whatever gets you through the day!
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June 16, 2012 at 10:45 AM
🙂 nice way to bypass an argument. anyways in the same note, one of my Turkish friend got very excited when he came across the name ‘My Name is Khan’ – he was not even aware that its a Hindi film and who the heck Shahrukh was! And yeah he went ahead to watch it in AMC.
Maybe Shetty is trying the same trick with all Bachchan fans?
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June 16, 2012 at 10:50 AM
It’s not serious enough to argue with! But also I’ve said so much on this topic it’s hard to repeat it every time.
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June 19, 2012 at 6:52 AM
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June 21, 2012 at 3:31 PM
Didn’t realize this was the Abhishek/Prachi song, this is the Marathi hit they’ve reused with the original composers. the song is very reminiscent of Dhadak dhadak from BnB in some ways as is Abhishek’s look.
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June 21, 2012 at 11:28 PM
I like this one. Good to see goofy and fun from Abhishek after stuff like Game and Players. He’s entertaining in this.
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June 22, 2012 at 1:43 AM
Cast with NDTV
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June 22, 2012 at 9:33 AM
different video:
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/glamour-show/video-story/236943
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June 21, 2012 at 10:03 PM
on Jhalak Dilkhla Jaa
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June 22, 2012 at 8:11 AM
Abhishek Bachchan showed his beti’s snapshots to Mads on his mobile. The actress let out a loud cry of wow on the sets of Jhalak Dikkla Jaa on Colors. Junior B featured in the dance show as part of his promotions for an upcoming film. Karan Johar who has probably seen the baby could only smile.
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June 21, 2012 at 10:06 PM
What’s common between Asin and Abhishek?
June 21, 2012 03:55:02 PM IST
By Joginder Tuteja, Glamsham Editorial
In BOL BACHCHAN while Asin returns with her LONDON DREAMS co-star Ajay Devgn, there is a definite tuning that she has managed to build with Abhishek Bachchan as well. Though the two are not paired opposite each other in BOL BACHCHAN, Asin is looking forward to a set up that brings them together in a more conventional setup
“I would love to work with him as a pair,” smiles Asin, “One of the common things we share is good knowledge about South cinema and music. While I have of course been in that industry for quite some time, even Abhishek knows so much despite not working in a South film. He has this huge collection of South movies and songs. Moreover, he has been to Chennai many times and knows people in the industry. In fact I was pleasantly surprised when he told me that even before I stepped into the Hindi film industry with GHAJINI, he had seen quite a few of my South films and liked them. Of course I was flattered.”
While it was flattery that came Asin’s way, her female co-star Prachi Desai had some pranks waiting for her when she landed on the sets of BOL BACHCHAN. Even though Asin tried to dissuade the all-boys gang (Ajay Devgn, Abhishek, Rohit Shetty) to take Prachi for a ride, they would have none of it.
Laughs Asin, “Yeah, everyone decided to play a prank on Prachi and that too on the first day of her shoot. I told these boys ki chalo jaane do, aaj pehla din hai. However everyone just ganged up and pulled a fast one on them. She was asked to say a dialogue which was not a part of the script. When she unknowingly mouthed the dialogue, Ajay and others just couldn’t control laughing. I just took her aside and told her that it was just a prank. She being a sport didn’t mind it either.”
BOL BACHCHAN releases all over on 6th July.
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June 22, 2012 at 1:54 AM
The “Nach le Bol Bachchan” song is catchy, but the song really needs a heavier percussive element to make an impact — in its absence it seems naked and exposed. In general, the music for this film is wretchedly stale.
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June 22, 2012 at 10:38 AM
I’ve said it before but it’s been way too long since we’ve seen this Abhishek. I’m not one who really ever bought the whole criticism of him being “lazy” in his performances (itself a lazy criticism) but there was a risk of him stagnating in a certain dramatic mold. Even in something like Players, which I haven’t seen, he seemed to cut a rather grim figure. And this is not to say he doesn’t do this stuff effectively but he works best when he isn’t given a role that really requires him to do little more than brood. This is why DMD stood out nicely in recent times – some of the best moments in this performance were the lighter ones!
But getting back to this, I couldn’t care less about Rohit Shetty’s kind of comedy but Abhishek seems to be having a great deal of fun here and hopefully this will translate into audience interest.
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June 22, 2012 at 11:15 AM
Yours has always been one of most cogent criticisms on him. I think that if he has to do stuff for box office reasons he should err more on the side of ‘over the top’ than perhaps Players/Game. Because one mode necessarily draws out more of the actor than the other where one can be on auto-pilot, specially if one is the kind of actor who doesn’t seem much inspired by a certain kind of outing. Even if he is equally uninspired by both it will show more in the Players sort of deal where the the understated style can come across simply as ‘disinterested’ because the script does not offer enough to justify that stance. Of course there is a genealogy here inasmuch as this sort of genre in Hollwyood doesn’t really feature a more ‘involved’ performance (Wahlberg in his Italian Job). But this then means that Cruise generally cannot do the Italian Job. His films have to offer far more ‘obvious’ pleasures by way of thrills and/or star characterization. It also means that the Italian Job no matter how good cannot quite put up true blockbuster numbers. So even in Hollywood the payoffs for doing a somewhat more sober thriller are lesser. But yes getting back to Abhishek given his particular performance choices and/or persona the risk of overplaying it is lesser than the obverse. Because in the former he never runs that danger literally speaking, his ‘acting style’ keeps him in check. On the other hand the opposite is true when for a somewhat understated laidback part his performance can seem a notch below even what is required. Again all of this is also about ‘perception’ much more than what actually happens. But you’re absolutely right that one way or the other Abhishek looks to be having real fun here while this doesn’t seem to be so for some of his other outings and I guess much like the politician the actor must be ultimately seen to ‘love’ what he does.
In a recent interview he said that his style of comedy was more deadpan or a bit ‘behind the beat’ whereas in Bol Bachchan he was required to do something different in this sense. I actually think he can do both rather well but he’s right on his more natural inclination here. But this comment could be expanded. In general a more understated performance style is always about being ‘behind the beat’ just a little bit. Commercial cinema however does not always reward this inasmuch as sometimes the audience might perceive it as ‘less investment’ on the part of the actor. But Abhishek’s ‘signature’ on this score offers a profound contrast with his father’s who even when ‘understated’ (though this wasn’t often the case, even early on..) was never ‘behind the beat’. Not privileging one or the other here, just pointing out two different modes. Put differently his father even when understated always found just the right pitch. He could really thread the needle in this sense. Which is not a ‘failing’ in Abhishek inasmuch as he is never attempting the very same. So again even in something as over the top as Bol Bachchan it isn’t as much so as it would become in some other hands, including his father’s (though of course his father was brilliant at ‘over the top’, the others are just offensive or banal!).
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June 22, 2012 at 11:30 AM
“Because one mode necessarily draws out more of the actor than the other where one can be on auto-pilot, specially if one is the kind of actor who doesn’t seem much inspired by a certain kind of outing.”
This is exactly right. And the rest of your points are on the money. He’s definitely the type of actor who by default operates on a subtler mode so when the role itself requires this, his performance runs the risk of seeming “imperceptible”.
“I guess much like the politician the actor must be ultimately seen to ‘love’ what he does.”
Absolutely. And while on actors and politicians, I’ve noticed how in several articles out there about Romney right now, they talk about how he’s showing a little-seen “relaxed” or “comfortable” side to his persona. I must say though I’m not quite as convinced with this performance. Don’t think Romney’s a good enough actor to coverup the politician!
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June 22, 2012 at 12:05 PM
LOL, Romney isn’t going to convince anyone in this lifetime! James Lipton made the best observation on him sometime back when he said that even when he plays relaxed or smiles/laughs it’s simply his mouth/face that does it while his eyes don’t look happy at all! Some others have commented on his posture as well where he always suggests some stiffness. The usual cliche here is that ‘if you meet him off camera he’s relaxed’! Which is meaningless. A natural he ain’t!
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June 22, 2012 at 11:37 AM
Here I should also add that one of the reasons I rate relatively few Bachchan performances from the last decade or more as highly as a lot of the older stuff is precisely because that ‘magical pitch’ is often not evident. which is to say that everything seems perfect but it is nonetheless not quite as finely modulated. Because he’s ‘playing’ signature rather than ‘illustrating’ it. There’s a big difference. This is the difference between say the Sarkar and the extraordinary gesturality in the Coolie’s introductory sequence. Miraculously Bachchan avoided this trap even in his one-man industry phase where so many of the roles featured similar stuff. He was never quite repetitive even as the films might have been so. In the contemporary period even across very different roles the opposite can sometimes be true because it is always about ‘playing’ the signature. In truth the directors explicitly want him to do this in film after film, irrespective of the outing. It is always about a subject, commercial or otherwise, that then has to incorporate a legend in it and must pay homage to him in this way. There are of course very many important exceptions in this period but most films run this risk at a very conscious level. This is reflected in the ‘texts’ in very many ways. So to repeat my Aarakshan example when Saif’s character charges Bachchan’s with a kind of covert casteism the latter’s response does not address the ‘argument’ at all. Because Jha here can simply rely on Bachchan’s non-diegetic prestige to make the point. Who in his or her right mind would accuse Bachchan of such a prejudice?! But this ought to be irrelevant for the film itself. In the older works even when he was doing the ‘same stuff’ there was nonetheless an organic connection made between the character and his world. So it is in a great sense the fault of the industry which has been treating him as a national monument (this is quite justified everywhere except on a film set!). This is why I liked him in Paa. Despite the problems associated with judging a performance where prosthetics play such a central role he did bring forth a certain quirkiness and certainly spontaneity here. In an odd sense (or perhaps not odd at a psychoanalytic level!) not seeing his face in the mirror liberated him as a performer! The imprisoning prosthetics actually set him free! I could of course offer other examples too but Paa perhaps makes the case better than those others.
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June 22, 2012 at 11:41 AM
On Bachchan, I’d written this about him when I wrote on Eklavya some time ago:
“At the peak of his stardom in the 1970s, Amitabh Bachchan developed a considerably multifaceted screen persona, where his best masala roles were nothing short of epic masterworks in performance–he was towering, subtle, vulnerable, funny, intense, touching, loveable, intimidating and all together sensational. This unparalleled dynamism also made him among the most malleable of actors, able to shift stealthily into any cinematic vision in a largely seamless way. These days, filmmakers (either out of limited vision or visionary skill) will often pick and choose pockets of his titanic talent to suit their vision…”
Bachchan really was fortunate to have been around for the golden age of masala because this really allowed him to “pack” so much into a performance. Part of the reason why Abhishek is often criticized for “lazy” performances (to my mind) is that to some degree, the movies themselves don’t require as much from an actor as they used to. And this is not a criticism on all the films he’s done but just an observation about the heavy lifting that was required once upon a time. To put it differently – they just don’t make ’em like they used to!
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June 22, 2012 at 11:59 AM
agreed on all counts. And when I sometimes make these juxtapositions people think I’m literally comparing him with his father. This is about as silly a statement as saying that Bachchan even on his worst day is better than everyone else! But my point really is that in an older industry Abhishek after Yuva for example would get lots of parts to justify that persona and that politics and so on. But Bollywood just doesn’t make those kinds of films anymore. There is an elementary mismatch here. When Bachchan had Zanjeer and then Deewar the industry kept coming up with scripts to justify his gifts. He didn’t have to be Einstein with the scripts. and when he wasn’t doing the angry young man he did the Mukherjee kind of deal. Eventually he was reinvented as Anthony. But here again there was a gifted director and once more the industry kept throwing those sorts of roles at him. Today Abhishek with essentially Bachchan’s physicality (which is to say he belongs to that loose category) is essentially forced to play on foreign terrain. Even when it’s comedy and romance it takes place on Johar’s terrain. Things have changed in recent years with all the masala and so on and maybe the Bol Bachchan kind of deal is a better fit for him than KANK or Dostana and maybe this whole trend allows him to play on more rooted terrain and so on but so far it’s been at a disadvantage. Given that he’s not been willing to reduce himself to the Dus kind of outing as a permanent option. In Tamil cinema I think he would have already been a dominant star. Because they have a great deal that would be up his alley in a variety of genres. The problem though is that he himself has not been very willing to shop down South or get those talents to come in and do stuff with him in Bombay. It’s my understanding that very many would love to. And he’s been fairly well-connected with the Tamil industry in some ways. There’s really no excuse for taking on the Game kind of deal even if one is purely looking at the box office.
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June 23, 2012 at 10:17 AM
” the movies themselves don’t require as much from an actor as they used to…”
ROFLOL…I have heard defense and then some defence…hahahahha
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June 22, 2012 at 1:20 PM
So after the solo trailers of lead actor Ajay and then the second lead krishna,Rohit shetty released the song promo of the third lead Abhishek.He should not make it so obvious.
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June 23, 2012 at 5:49 AM
Abey BOL BACHCHAN band kar… warna jaisa krishna ko pada… waisa hi thappad tere ko bhi padega…
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June 22, 2012 at 5:28 PM
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June 22, 2012 at 7:09 PM
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June 23, 2012 at 4:54 AM
A v cute pic
Abhishrek showing his daughters pics to Madhuri and the reaction
http://zeenews.india.com/entertainment/celebrity/when-abhishek-showed-off-aaradhya-s-photos-to-madhuri_113868.htm
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June 23, 2012 at 7:32 AM
Nobody wants to make an unsuccessful film: Abhishek Bachchan
Mumbai: His last few releases have not done well at box office, but Bollywood actor Abhishek Bachchan says one has to deal with failures and move on as no one wants to make an unsuccessful film.His last release (in January) was Abbas-Mustan`s `Players`, an official remake of Hollywood crime thriller `The Italian Job`. Despite heavy promotion and an ensemble star cast, `Players`, one of the most anticipated films of 2012, failed at the box office.
“I think you have to deal with it (flops). Thankfully, you carry on working. It is never nice to talk about it…It is never a pleasant experience. Nobody wants to make an unsuccessful film. Everybody works hard to make a film successful,” Abhishek told PTI.
“As an actor I made a conscious decision that I don`t want any excuses (for films not doing well). I don`t want to say the editor did not edit it properly or this or that person did not do their work properly. I don`t want to point fingers at anybody. I want complete responsibility by saying that I did everything that I could do,” he maintained.
The Junior Bachchan has delivered quite a few flops in the recent past, including Farhan Akhtar`s home production `Game`, Ashutosh Gowariker`s `Khelein Hum Jee Jaan Sey`, Mani Ratnam`s `Raavan`, Goldie Behl`s `Drona`, Aditya Chopra`s `Laaga Chunari Mein Daag`, among others. However, his performance in films like `Paa`, `Dhoom` series, `Guru`, `Sarkar` and `Dostana` have been appreciated.
Asked if he has got his due as an actor, the 36-year- old, who made his Bollywood debut in 2000, said, “I think I was given too much due. I think people think I am a much better actor than actually I am. I think I have lot more to do and improve. I think people are too kind to me.”
“I am very harsh on myself. As an actor I am my worst critic ?I feel I have been given too much due, I am not acting fake by saying this. But I genuinely believe that, I feel I have lot more to do and learn,” Abhishek said.
Before choosing a film, the actor has his own set of parameter which he strictly follows.
“I have one parameter and a condition and that is more important. That is — your heart should tell you to do a film.
If that is not there then I won`t do a film. I have never worked from my mind…Thinking strategically. Be it the biggest director and a very good script, but if my heart is not with it I will not do it.”
The chirpy actor would be seen next in Rohit Shetty`s `Bol Bachchan`, which is inspired by Amol Palekar`s 1979 comic flick `Gol Maal`. Set for release on July 13, Abhishek would be seen along side Ajay Devgn, Prachi Desai and Asin.
After that the actor would feature in the third installment of Aditya Chopra`s hit franchise `Dhoom` (2013).
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June 23, 2012 at 7:47 AM
“But I genuinely believe that, I feel I have lot more to do and learn,” Abhishek said.”
That’s the only right thing he said in the entire interview 🙂
Btw the songs aren’t that bad and sound somewhat better now on a few listens
Infact am getting a vibe of a success for the first time with these new songs–though the success won’t be of the scale being imagined by some due to shetty -devgun combo
The other good thing to see is abhishrek final,y somewhat out if the stiff brooding persona he had ‘taken up’ on his own and decided to stay in…he seems a bit more ‘mobile” here- the question as in all his releases is , is that enuf ?
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June 23, 2012 at 7:53 AM
“Nobody wants to make an unsuccessful film: Abhishek Bachchan”
Abhishrek needs credit for making such an intelligent statement !!
He surely has come long way from his dyslexic past!!
Sometimes one just loses patience with this guy
Repeated nonstop underperformance enough to negate the combined privileged position , legacy, and best efforts of his kind parents but this guy continues to make the same noises, same stance and same goddamm denials from reality!!!
When will this guy wake up ?
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June 23, 2012 at 7:59 AM
the 36-year- old abhishek, who made his Bollywood debut in 2000, said, “I think I was given too much due. I think people think I am a much better actor than actually I am. I think I have lot more to do and improve. I think people are too kind to me.”
There you are!
Better than any of his roles, abhishrek here comes up with an excellent summary of his career till now…
And this is from the horses mouth
For a change, the ‘false humility’ is actually not false !!!!!!
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June 23, 2012 at 8:05 AM
Basically my rants against abhishrek have a bigger basis.
Just can’t stand the way amitabh has had to quietly tolerate this guys passivity and underperformance.
Have no doubts that lots of the ‘wrong’ film choices amitabh made this decade were related to some sort of unwritten deal vis a vis abhishrek in one war or the other…and so on..
But the biggest qualm is not underperformance but the obstinate resistance to change and insistence of continuing the same passive way…
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June 23, 2012 at 9:46 AM
https://satyamshot.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/bol-bachchan-trailer-2/#comment-164256
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June 23, 2012 at 9:53 AM
“But the biggest qualm is not underperformance but the obstinate resistance to change and insistence ”
I love this kind of ‘obstinate resistance’ in very many contexts! History is not written by boring conformists though they might do well for a well! There are very many such folks in the dustbins of history!
But you’ve nonetheless hit the nail on the head in certain ways. my thesis here has always been that it is precisely Abhishek’s ‘resistance’ to the hegemonic choices of the present that disturbs people. He’s essentially the guy who isn’t with the multiplex program!
Note by the way how even Bol Bachchan confirms one other thesis of mine. Even the most pedestrian directors get a bit more interesting when they cast him. So the plot of Bol Bachchan has remarkably enough a ‘religious’ subtext inserted into it. This from a guy who’s otherwise never shown any interest in this sort of thing. And it’s in a progressive direction whereas in Singham the ethnic politics was fairly objectionable. Here you have the temple issue which causes the crisis but of course the two romantic pairs here cut are ‘inter-religious’ ones! You deal with the Bachchan signature and interesting things happen. It’s not just about important directors but even the run of the mill ones who at least dimly intuit this. So even though Bol Bachchan looks completely safe there is still something more here. Rohit shetty said calling it a message film would be going too far but that there’s stuff happening here below the surface and the end is somewhat interesting in this sense. Actually when I heard the plot I truly wished someone like Shaad Ali had been doing this. Because Shetty will have those angles but most of the film will still be his usual comedy. He won’t do justice to it in the same way. Unless he surprises me very much. Nonetheless he inserted such an angle here.
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June 23, 2012 at 9:53 AM
Alex: Re: “Have no doubts that lots of the ‘wrong’ film choices amitabh made this decade were related to some sort of unwritten deal vis a vis abhishrek in one war or the other…and so on.”
You might have “no doubts” but there is not a shred of evidence for this, much less a “bi[g] basis”.
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June 23, 2012 at 9:55 AM
Don’t confuse Alex with ‘evidence’ and ‘facts’!
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June 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM
About to watch TMK!!! (for all the talk about quality etc lol) wanted to watch GoW but not showing …
Basically love amitabh and don’t like the way he has been ‘humbled’ by the constant relative failure of abhishrek …one may not admitting but that’s what it has been one way or the other….
These things don’t have/need evidence or proof…
Most of the films abhishrek has got /been associated with in the past five-ten years have been by directors coming off an amitabh or aishwarya film –mehra, gowarikar, and so on…
Even If there is no ‘barter’ deal the influence of amitabh cant be negated.
He’s too big a figure to be ignored for most film makers , forget the newer ones
If a maker is making a project that the ‘a-listers’ have refused due to one reason or another-the options are–
Going for second -third rung ones like fardeen , afghan etc
Or total newcomers
By signing abhishrek , one has suddenl got a ‘bachchan’ in his cv -which whatever said n done brings certain ‘strategic’ or ‘ intangible’ gains –not everything can be ‘quantified’ or proved
This and the ‘bachchan signature ‘ brought to shettys Bol bachchan here as an example–
This is all primarily due to his illustrious father who has spent a lifetime to get this credibility nd weight .
Abhishrek is just the beneficiary of this mostly –it’s more than high time, he gets out of his skin to make himself worth of the tag he so effortlessly inherited !!
It’s this inane inertia laced with passive ‘reassuredness’ in the garb of ‘pseudo confidence’ that needs to be attacked…
Hope amitabh himself crack the whip on his ‘biggest bug bear’ -abhishrek and force him our of his ‘(dis) comfort zone”
Ps–after all that high talk and sermonising, it’s only befitting to watch TMK —
Hmm the crowd seems interesting ….(& still takers for Prometheus)…. 🙂
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June 23, 2012 at 11:02 AM
Re: “not everything can be ‘quantified’ or proved”
You’re right: and there’s no need, when everything may be imagined.
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June 23, 2012 at 11:43 AM
LOL!
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June 23, 2012 at 10:59 AM
“Most of the films abhishrek has got /been associated with in the past five-ten years have been by directors coming off an amitabh or aishwarya film –mehra, gowarikar, and so on”
loved the way they pick this guy and harshly attack him because again is to bachchan’s son and thats a fact to
abhishek refused lagaan way back before any so called bachchan worked with gowarikar and similar was case with samjhauta express with mehra and even rdb and also ramu’s department and rann flatly and even when this guy is producing films most of the author back role went to amitabh not to him
actually in worst phase of aishwarya it was abhishek who referred him to guru and d3 and even did miniscule role in umrao jaan …a women centric movie
with whom abbas mustan , rohan sippy mani ratnam , shaad ali and many others worked… for your information.the guy ranbir (of band baaja) was an ad during bunty and bubli and ranbeer kapoor during black and these are your new talent on horizon
that bachchan signature is omnipresent in even remake officially and non officially and thats because he is the greatest commercial and impactful actor to have come out of india and other made their career out of it remaking his film officially and unofficially
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June 23, 2012 at 11:08 AM
thing is a ranbir kappor or imran khan flatly got big banners in there resume without anything and ab jr has to wait after 5-6 year of his career or to get into yashraj or johar movie that to after fair bit of commercial sucess(why amitabh’s connection didn’t happened) or for that matter neither his father launched him and this is a fact to
thing is you can say anything because right now he is low at bo front but its a fact to commercially he picked the most different and risky procects in last 5 years
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June 23, 2012 at 11:17 AM
*risky projects*
in layman’s language:
let me ask simple question whats was the gross of superstar hrithik roshan’s guzaarish or salman khan’s phir milenge or that priyadarshan movie where he played mentally retarded practically nothing or for that matter very recently ajay’s aakrosh or hashmi’s sanghai etc ….reason because they where risky and commercially not viable
when you repeatedly pick on those automatically you bo front will go down as is the case with ab jr and crticism one say he hardly balanced them with commercial front and where he was at 07-08 he is hardly there in terms of bo now ….
on to bol bachchan have to say i am never to keen on movie and shetty particular infact golmal thing and this hindu muslim angle(mehra faltered big time with d6) makes me wonder wheather he is even capable enough to handle those
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June 23, 2012 at 12:01 PM
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June 23, 2012 at 2:31 PM
For the sake of his few fans here, I hope BB becomes a hit and Abhishek gets some credit for it.
Otherwise they get more frustrated than Abhishek himself about his failures.
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June 23, 2012 at 2:44 PM
actually his ‘best’ fans (!) have every bit as much perseverance as he does. Never underestimate those who have perseverance coupled with poise! Today and yesterday are trifles for those who deal in eternity! It is always the ‘final’ battle that has to be won!
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June 23, 2012 at 6:26 PM
“Never underestimate those who have perseverance coupled with poise!”- Satyam, you are surely one such fan on whom the above criteria fits perfectly. People like me respect you so much not only bcos u know so much and write fabulously but also because you are so honest in your views, and always behave like a gentleman- all the characteristics of a damn good human being. And couple that with the humility you have and i dunno what else is left?! btw is ur fav soccer club ‘Blues’? i guess it may be so 🙂
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June 23, 2012 at 7:55 PM
thanks much Saurabh.. didn’t intend that description for myself though!
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June 24, 2012 at 1:12 PM
The ‘best’ fans alas is just one in number here and his perseverence is more than evident. If Abhishek indeed wins the final battle against all odds – due credit would be given to his best fan too imo.
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June 23, 2012 at 2:42 PM
for the sake of his haters i to assume this one assumes flop status
otherwise how things like cost is more , won’t do this much or this is krishna’s movies and why title should be this or that etc etc will be affected
atleast daily koi excuse ko nahi nikalna padega ….when one is ignoring the movie one is not obsessed about it wheather positively or negetively and they cry the fan rant with credit and failure
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June 23, 2012 at 6:00 PM
Just to clarify a few things bout the stance on abhishrek —
A) that am far from an abhishrek hater-infact due to his being a bachchan son, have always wished him well -even now..
But have always drawn a distinction between blind ‘defence’ and appropriate ‘defence’
B) as for his ‘risky’ projects
Well, that’s a defence to a point but if someone is being pushed to a point of going from a main lead in main ratnam or Rakesh mehra lead to rohit shettys second lead (or parallel lead to be polite to his fans) the ‘direction of change’ is obvious
C) even the best a-listers HAVE to do a few ‘safe’ projects after every ‘risk’ to keep the balance intact.
But if someone keeps taking ‘risks’ inspite of the ‘realities’ and denies the reality, this doesn’t remain ‘defence worthy’
D) repeated failure is also not the main issue
If one can see the effort or intention, one doesn’t feel bad.
But over the years, there’s not even an attempt to change things or Di things differently as if one has either resigned to failure iPod is least bothered or feels that one is designed by the almighty for success as a matter of time!!
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June 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM
chesterton had a great line — “the lost causes were the only ones worth fighting for”. The whole problem here is in equating Abhishek’s box office failures with ‘mistakes’. If one is going to define every box office problem as such that’s a different story. Otherwise Abhishek precisely doesn’t want to change say Raavan (just an example), he wants to find a path where Raavan can be successful. Or D6 can be so! One might not agree with the choices but it’s important to understand what the stakes really are. Similarly in terms of his physicality or how he approaches things again he obviously knows what people like. When he still doesn’t do it there’s something else going on. And he’s seen too much failure to not know how and why the audiences don’t agree with his choices. It’s not as if this is a mystery to him. Now maybe this is not a practical path. Of course he’s doing the Bol Bachchan kind of deal or whatever when pushed to the wall. But the point is that to say that all these very distinct choices are happening simply because he’s lazy or is somehow on cruise control is a rather absurd argument. As GF said it is the laziest argument in the world to frame things this way. It’s not about loving or hating him. That’s a personal choice and not even relevant here. Who does films like D6 or Raavan or KHJJS or whatever because they somehow want to sit back and enjoy life and collect interest on their last name?! Isn’t the opposite true. People who want to do that stick to established genres. That’s the way of being lazy. It’s what Saif is doing with Cocktail! The problem is we have become consumers of films where we simply want actors to put on designer wear and work out in gyms and shoot in Europe and we’re thrilled. This is what we define as cinema! If someone resists this model one should recognize the resistance for what it is and not cling to the ‘lazy’ definitions. And as I’ve said before the general flaw with such claims is a circular logic anyway. Everything hinges on the box office. If a film works the star must have done something right and vice versa! Again GF is absolutely on the money and I’d take it even further. We should question our own lazy framing on these questions before we start calling actors lazy. I know you’re not an Abhishek-hater but this doesn’t end the debate. It’s not even relevant. Even if you were a hater that’s fine. The kind of argument one makes is far more important than these labels. ‘Abhishrek’ used constantly cannot be a substitute for serious thought. I don’t care one way or the other but don’t you think there’s something incredibly silly about constantly using such a label?!
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June 24, 2012 at 1:24 PM
The lazy tag is misplaced for films like Raavan, D6 or KHJJs. But with reference to Game, Players, Dhoom, tec its a valid argument.
Had Abhishek been doing only the former set of movies it would probably had been better for him. He would have reputation and a decent career as an actor. Its the challenge of being a star too is whats leaving Abhishek nowhere with tons of flop movies. He needs serious introspection.
A Chakravuh is still being offered to him – but alas he is chosing to play second fiddle in Bol Bachchan and a Dhoom instead.
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June 24, 2012 at 1:44 PM
i guess people have allready seen bol bachchan and dhoom 3 to know what fiddle it is…
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June 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM
and ya the new messiah ajay(for haters obviously) was repeatedly ridiculed by trade not sometime back …why a serious actor like him resorted to commercial stuff and what was the outcome of his poorly marketed thriller called tezz or different stuff aakrosh
thing is he is the producer and he has given creamy part to him with double role that itself says many things
and ya if he will do chakravyuh the same bol bachchan’s will jump why he is doing the same with director after amitabh did rajneeti ….thanks to great phase he is in and i am sure about it
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June 24, 2012 at 1:51 PM
dhoom 1 in a way established him but d2 was again a case of being sidelined in a weak role frankly ….the same guy his worst phase even he got better reviews than hr in main prem ki diwani hoon and very recently over john abraham in dostana
players in a way yes but waat different gross was it compared to agent vinod that to in his worst phase….but game was hardly marketed at all…question is to be asked whose production was is …ab corp’s
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June 24, 2012 at 2:08 PM
and one serious question on reputatation and that itself says all …
what this guy is doing on rohit shetty’s biggest commercial film ( when a guy like srk is to eager to sign him on for his reinvention ) or for that matter yashraj’s biggest commercial venture a series of which he is a part
who will refuse that when its being offered that to commercially
can clealy see the framing of arguments in what matter but it can be clealy refuted easily if one want to see facts
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June 24, 2012 at 7:35 AM
‘I owe Abhishek a hit’
Sunday, June 24th 2012, 12:00 AM
MUMBAI, June 24 — To anyone who suggests that Rohit Shetty’s Bol Bachchan is a ‘relaunch’ vehicle for actor Abhishek Bachchan, the director has this to say: “Who am I to relaunch him? He is doing exactly what he has been doing in the past. Every actor goes through a phase in which some of their films don’t work. It’s a phase and it will pass. He hasn’t done anything wrong.”
Still, the director whose first film, Zameen (2003), bombed at the box office, admits that he feels a sense of guilt when it comes to Abhishek. Zameen starred Ajay Devgn and Abhishek Bachchan, the very same stars of his Bol Bachchan.
“I owe Abhishek a hit,” says Rohit. “Zameen bombed. We had made that film in two years and I was almost written off. The film failed because of many production issues but its failure is my responsibility as I was helming the project.”
The director draws parallels of how friends stand by each other in trying times. He says, “When Zameen bombed, Ajay stood by me, that’s how Golmaal could happen. The same is happening with Abhishek but he is a good actor. It’s not fair to keep comparing him to his legendary father, actor Amitabh.” He adds, “Once one of Abhi’s films work, people will say he is back, just like they did with Akshay Kumar. I will be happy if Bol Bachchan is that film for him. I felt very guilty when our earlier film didn’t work.”
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June 24, 2012 at 7:49 AM
Comic Relief
PriyankaPereira Posted online: Sun Jun 24 2012, 03:23 hrs
Abhishek Bachchan’s films haven’t set the cash registers ringing for a while now. The actor, however, believes that each film comes with its own destiny and is willing to wait it out. With his movie Bol Bachchan, he hopes for the tide to change. As he waits for its release on July 6, he talks about coping with failures, spending time with his daughter Aaradhya and why he finds media’s take on Aishwarya Rai-Bachchan’s weight gain “disgusting”.
Bol Bachchan is said to be a remake of Gol Maal. Are you ready for comparisons with Amol Palekar?
There are no comparisons. When director Rohit Shetty was planning this film, the basic germ of thought came from Hrishi kaku’s (Hrishikesh Mukherjee) Gol Maal. Hence, Rohit thought that it is ethical to buy the rights of the film. Small quirks of the characters like the moustache could be similar.
Were you comfortable doing Rohit Shetty’s brand of comedy?
I am not uncomfortable, but filmmakers assume I am better at drab and intense roles. Comedy, however, is tough work. In this film, my energy level had to be 100 per cent at all times.
Whose idea was it to rope in Amitabh Bachchan for the title track?
It was Rohit’s idea. But with dad on the sets, it is always fun. I am, however very nervous, because you are up against the best in the business.
Professionally, you have had a lean phase of late. Do you think this was a result of some wrong decisions?
The decisions you take are never wrong. The films can go wrong. No actor walks into a film saying that he wants a flop. Or no actor does a film because it strategically does not make sense. Sometimes, the time isn’t right.
Does failure hurt you immensely?
Of course, it does. It’s crushing. Some actors have the ability to develop a thick skin and move on. But I’m not one of those. I find it very difficult to take it in my stride. You give a film your best, and when it fails, it’s like somebody telling you your best isn’t good enough. It is never an easy pill to swallow.
How do you cope with it?
I don’t. Failure has a way of coping with you. You need to take it chin-up, move ahead and immerse yourself in work.
Do you think with Rohit Shetty, at the helm, Bol Bachchan can turn things around for you?
I did not do the film because Rohit was making it; I did it because I was drawn to the script. In my last 12 years, I have learnt never to base a decision on the track record of people making it. Just because a director has made eight superhit films, does not mean his next eight films will also be hits. Each film comes with its own destiny.
How’s your daughter doing?
Very good. Since I was doing just Bol Bachchan, I got a lot of time to spend with my baby, play with her, talk to her and do all those things that any other father would.
A lot was recently written and spoken about Aishwarya Rai-Bachchan’s weight gain. You did not speak in her defence or otherwise. Why?
I wasn’t in the country when all this was happening. I was out on work.
Did it bother you?
It did. It was really disgusting. I don’t talk about women that way and I certainly don’t appreciate women in my family being spoken about that way. I understand we are public figures but we are also human beings. But then the media will always talk and always have the last word. So we must carry on with our life. Like Aishwarya says: “All this is just a drop in the ocean compared to all the love and respect we get from everyone around. We should just overlook it.”
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June 24, 2012 at 8:06 AM
“How do you cope with it?
I don’t. Failure has a way of coping with you. You need to take it chin-up, move ahead and immerse yourself in work.”
Well, one can blame abhishrek for loads of things but one DOES need to give him credit for being ‘balanced’ and dignified in failure.
Some others wouldve taken refuge in smoking, alcohol, extramarital escapades or would’ve run their cars onto sleeping homeless .
But not him !!!
The slit problem though is that Indian viewers are a ‘suggestible malleable lot’
They need to be shown in an underlined manner that someone is ‘turning a new leaf’
When saif acquires paan-stained teeth and a rustic look in langda tyagi (most of the brilliance there was bhargwajs anyhow) there was a unanimous applause as if Hoffman/DDL has descended into India in his second coming
Suddenly the audience became more ‘receptive’ for saif to show the ‘actor’ in him though he continued his bread n butter stuff like salaam namaste, LAK and now cock tale..
Am not cribbing out a no-gooder..abhishrek is and can be a better performer an saif, provided he gets his niche and then can work around it doing other stuff
The problem is that while he does/liked doing /has been forced to do ‘risky stuff’ there’s no certainty of what is ‘non risky’ for him..
One genuinely feels for this guy who is a v nice person off screens dn one with an impeccable background..
Instead of just ‘feeling’ bad and ‘trying’ new things, suggest he tries to transfer this ‘bluff’ to the audience and make them think he is trying these different things out…
The problem with him has been the growing list of flops…once that starts happening beyond a point,whichever way one spells the narrative, whatever perspective or paradigm, the ultimate ‘reality’ is too much to explain
I actually agree with what Satyam has said about abhishrek above and infact endorse it.
It’s just that with this sort of success:failure ratio, all this analysis can become a bit futile beyond a point
But not all is lost– the day he is able to convince the audience that he is trying something new/different or is ‘exerting’ ( although in reality he may be actually doing exactly the same stuff) suddenly he will find the audiences giving him much more chances and the discourse will become better
So in simpler words, whilst it is not exactly comparable, the ‘saif model’ should be the start of his resurrection and once he achieves that somewhat and mixed up things, due to the advantages of his lineage, better presence, voice and range, he can surely surpass the current saif position
I also see abhishrek as someone who should consider any good worthwhile stuff from Hollywood etc in between. The path of resurrection can sometimes be unpredictable but the end result /goal still the same…
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June 24, 2012 at 8:25 AM
felt like sharing this.it’s turning out to be a very forgettable day for me.LOL. Firstly,next weekend i, with some collg friends, was supposed to go for a trip to Goa (on my bike). But when i asked my mom for permission, she flatly refused only bcos a friend’s GF was also going. Then my school friends had planned a friendly re-union cricket match this Sep between our old school team and some Ex indian cricketers and Ranji players- sadly i have my exams during that time (i was supposed to keep wickets)
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June 24, 2012 at 8:38 AM
Haha minor
But what’s your friends gf for to do with u?
Do u have a ‘history’ with her 🙂
And what happened to tmk u were being taken ..
Wrote some ‘tips’ for u lol
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June 24, 2012 at 9:17 AM
I think saurabh’s very popular with the girls.. so mom thinks she might try to steal him away 😉
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June 24, 2012 at 10:06 PM
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June 24, 2012 at 10:15 PM
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