Images from Gangs of Wasseypur 2 (updated)
thanks to Saurabh..
- Comment
- Reblog
-
Subscribe
Subscribed
Already have a WordPress.com account? Log in now.
SATYAMSHOT 
July 5, 2012 at 6:37 PM
wow, kya masala hai…..Good Cinema !!
not even a certified Ch…..will put up a poster like this to win even a municipality election…….but very realistic hai sir !!
LikeLike
July 6, 2012 at 12:21 AM
lol
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 12:24 PM
I’ve loved the pop art here..
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 12:28 PM
I’m guessing Nawazuddin Siddiqui is dressed and (hair)styled like the 70s Bachchan intentionally? The whole poster looks great.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 12:33 PM
and I like the fact that they’ve maintained continuity in this sense. With some other films it’s like the posters could belong to different works.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 12:41 PM
his character phaijal khan is huge bigb fan in the movie…
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 1:40 PM
Got it. I suppose this is why Kashyap has been talking about a kinship between this film and Subramaniyapuram.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:32 PM
Aap ‘F’ mein ‘Pha’ ka sahi istimaal kiye hain. Kaa aap Dhanbad ki hain?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 8:54 PM
Hum womaniya hai…lolz…dhanbad say naa sahi. Kya aap Gangs dekh chukey hai? Kya rai hai aapki?
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 12:57 PM
U sasura Kashyap ne ek dum bhari-budkum phillum banayi hai. Itna gurnit aur gyan prapt hua ki uko dekhkar saarey Vedi challaang maar ke Chaturvedi ban gaye. Bus tanik hum ant mein conphusiya gaye, ki yeh Durga kaahey Sardar ko Vitrampur pahuncha deti hai.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 1:02 PM
Haha
Translate plz
Is there a Bihari-app on google?
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 12:38 PM
Looking forward to this. GOW Part I was good, right down the lane Kashyap cinema (albeit pointless in its violence). Tarantino would be proud of it. GOW Part Deux looks set to carry out the saga.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 12:38 PM
The part 2 trailer is already out on their FB page…
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 12:59 PM
there’s a separate post for it here as well. It’s been around for some days.
LikeLike
July 10, 2012 at 11:21 PM
The GoW posters have all been great- I hope they release a two part subtitled DVD of this soon- or find UK distributors for this- my Hindi isn’t strong enough for me to watch unsubtitled films where characters speak in strong regional dialects. 😦
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 1:19 AM
Ami, it’s not just you (Hindi is not even ur mother-tongue so u should not blame urself at all) but even Hindi-speaking people who are ‘not from Eastern U.P. and Bihar’ will have trouble understanding all the dialogues since they are a mix of Bhojpuri and Bihari (i could since i have lived in eastern UP and even otherwise belong to Lucknow)- but while subtitles will helpful, the dialogues will lose their ‘flavour’ when subtitled. the best option is to watch the film with sumone who knows the dialect.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 2:49 AM
Sadly I don’t have any friends from Eastern U.P./ Bihar- so I’m going to have to make do with subtitles.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:23 AM
You should be able to understand for most part ..it is bastardized form of dialect ..more towards Hindi..Ofcourse words like Chichaledar are tough nut to crack for many 🙂
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 5:35 AM
chichaledar means an intensely obnoxious and petty quarrel over something.
the word “chii”…means obnoxious.as when we come across a dirty man…we stop our nose,screw our face and utter a chiii.
chaa has no independent meaning of its own..it is used merely to enhance the intensity of chii…as a play on that word.like we use….woh daaru pee paa ke aaya hai…uske muh na lago.here paa is used merely to intensify pee.
so chicha means intensely obnoxious.
now ledar is a dilution of two words…le(come)…and dhar(take)…..it generally means to grasp for something.
so chichaledar means..an intensely obnoxious situation of two or more people quarreling to grasp something.
now that was the original meaning of the word as it was supposed to be used in villages of bihar.now a days chichaledar simply means an obnoxious and messy situation.so a person says…arrey yaar chichaledar ho gaya.
this word is used only in the godforsaken and rustic villages of bihar and rarely used even in cities like patna or other bihari urban centers.
its hindi after all..as my sandhi-viched(etymological explanation) shows.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 2:30 PM
Chichla: means shallow right? Same word might mean different in same language different dialects, I would think (like kahe k lunga has various meanings depending on which state you belong, per A.K).
@Ami: if french can watch it with subtitles, so can you girl. It ain’t that hard..though I cannot claim to have understood it completely either…enjoyable flick
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 2:33 PM
Speaking of new words, I hadn’t heard “tilchaata” (cockroach) prior to Gangs of Wasseypur. Apparently the term is used in Bengali too.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 2:42 PM
have seen chichora used alot…hi hu i guess is another language(may be maithali other may corrrect me as i am not from that belt)
btw the most vulgar abuse i have heard is chutiyam shulphate used by vishal bhardawaj and a lady(balan saying that was more amusing(chuso4)…
samajhdaar to ishaara hi kaafi hai
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:08 PM
What does “shatiri”, “nevelay” mean. I hope these are not bad words. Does this dialogue ring a (dabangg) bell? “शकुनी कि औलाद, मजदूरों कि हाय लगेगी तुझे. इतना छेद कर देंगे कि डाक्टर पोस्ट मार्टम से मना करेगा, शव ही नहीं बचेगा”
satyam ki gang-wa, GoW dekh k, bahut pagla gayi hai. To be honest it is the humor of the movie that is universally appealing! Well also the dialogues. The language. The songs. The actors/acting/characters/. The story. Well everything. Even though one would expect bourgeosis to reject such a movie…
Here is new song:
[added to post]
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:19 PM
i this is said by saket in other thread:
One mythical “Lakhnawi” sledge that I heard growing up went like this: “Miyan tum mein itni goliyan maarenge ki subah uth kar peetal hagoge”
Priceless!
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 5:03 PM
yes..that comment of saket I had forgotten is priceless. Didn’t know people spoke such language in real life!
On durga: Since the movie is on revenge of sorts: the revenge then is at multiple levels. Durga too is taking revenge for not getting husband attention and she is doing exact opposite of “kah K lungi”..she is doing peeth k peechey vaar…I would get these layers on second viewing because much of the nuances or subtelties of the language was missed.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 5:45 AM
Just read this- thanx for that explanation anjali…
Btw what did u think of sweta khanwalkars music and tracks in gow1-any favourites ?
Anyhow folks– are there any track/song promos available for gow2?
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:06 AM
khanwalkar has done a commendable job.the music is hatke..and has strains of bihari folk music tradition blended in it..which is welcome.but i dont think it is one of the best music of anurag kashyap’s films.my best is black friday followed by devd….maybe gow is third.
the best song for obvious reasons is jiya ho bihar ke lala….followed by ik bagal mein.though the music of ik bagal mein is given by piyush mishra himself who both sung,composed and wrote the lyrics of the song.
now my chief grouse with gow or for that matter any other music and songs of kashyap’s films is that they have absolutely garbage lyrics.
piyush mishra maybe a good actor and music composer n hatke singer….but his lyrics r absolute garbage.the other lyricist in gow…varun gobar…i mean grover…is another shitty writer of lyrics.
lyrics of bihar ke lala…ik bagal mein…pus ke dher…..r all shit!
they maybe a hit with the multiplex going urban kids..who any way dont have patience or sense for hindi/urdu literature…and only go by the mood n feel of the music and rarely listen to the lyrics…..but someone who loves the language and literature in hindi/urdu…will find the lyrics to be bakwaas.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:13 AM
U do have a point anjali
Think kashyap and his lyricists go over the top with obscenities and cuss words
Even realistically, who speaks more cuss words than ‘normal’ words in a sentence!
This only alienates some parts of the audience and think kashyap now needs to get the ‘maturity’ to be able to suppress those ‘boys hostel’ urges and try to expand his viewership ..
“the other lyricist in gow…varun gobar…i mean grover…is another shitty writer of lyrics.” 🙂
Btw an example in the song ‘hunter’
It’s a brilliant song going by the creative aspect
Sneha apparently travelled to the Caribbean to get the right feel of the ‘chutney’ (migrant bihari -plus calypso) music… Even the singers and their pronunciation is damn apt and authentic
I personally don’t have a problem with the lyrics and can see the vibe/fun element in it but don’t blame others who feel the lyrics dilute/spoil the otherwise brilliance of the song ..
What do u feel about ‘ hunter’ …
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:20 AM
Even the gal gang of wasseypur is ‘Kool’ n fun
Dabang anjali: Check em out 🙂
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 7:17 AM
^ Btw looking at this clip, one can’t make out who is the music director and who is the ‘heroine’ 🙂
Anjali: didn’t understand the meaning of the lyrics of ‘ik bagal mein’-too abstract?
Did u..
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:20 AM
oh i had completely forgotten about hunter.u must have seen i didnt mention that song once in my comment.now hunter is an example of brilliant music and also lyrics.i have no problem with obscenities or use of cuss words in the lyrics.my problem is the lack of wit and literature in the lyrics.lack of theme and substance.only by stringing together black humorous ….contradictory sentences…..like…hum maut ko sapna bata kar uth khade honge…and siskiyon ko gudgudi kar kar ke hansayenge……this is a cheap option.anyone can write it…its a play of words…not a play of emotions.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:25 AM
btw hunter lyrics has not been written by pitush mishra or varun grover…..its written by a caribbean guy…not from kashyap camp.anyone from kashyap camp…cant write good lyrics….becoz they dont have a solid grounding in the native literature.
act i find lyrics in most of mahesh bhatt’s sleazy flicks to be of great quality.like that aawarapan banjaarapan ek khala hai seene mein…in the film jism..is marvellous
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:26 AM
“now hunter is an example of brilliant music and also lyrics.i have no problem with obscenities or use of cuss words in the lyrics.my problem is the lack of wit and literature in the lyrics.lack of theme and substance”
Brilliant :
THAT is the honesty, maturity and sense missing in most others esp girls!
C’mon don’t gals speak crass words –def in the west, even in india maybe? So y this sudden ‘offence’. Haha
Most gals object to the ‘crap lyrics’, ‘sexualisation’ or ‘objectification’ of women etc here but one needs to watch in the fun setting/vibe..
Haven’t seen the film but guess that huma qureshis character is also indulging in harmless ‘flirting’ ? Is it true?
So it’s not that out of place..
Plus they do show the protagonist brandishing an actual ‘gun’ to justify one meaning 🙂 (as if it helps)
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:35 AM
Most gals object to the ‘crap lyrics’, ‘sexualisation’ or ‘objectification’ of women etc …….who r u referring to?:)
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:38 AM
🙂 No cumments
Btw anjali : re u checking out cocktail–would love to hear your views or a fullblown review … Cheers
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 7:05 AM
the place where hunter song is used in the film gow 1….has no connection with sex or sexuality.it used..when nawaz is bought illegal guns from a supplier and is dodging the police from catching him on a train journey.
btw….why dont yu download gow?dvd rip is available on the net…and they r of pretty decent quality
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 7:13 AM
Oh thanx -do u hav a good link-Will try to watch GOW
Didn’t release on the big screen @ my end
On telly/DVD: am lazy: difficult to sustain attention for 2-3 hours -in a cinema, one is ‘stuck’/’committed’ to complete.
Also prefer good sound/picture quality for the ‘complete experience’.
Find it Easier to watch an few promos/scenes /punch a few comments on the go …haha
But Will watch GOW …
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 6:31 AM
“act i find lyrics in most of mahesh bhatt’s sleazy flicks to be of great quality.like that aawarapan banjaarapan ek khala hai seene mein…in the film jism..is marvellous”
Now that’s why I find your reading more ‘complete’ & ‘holistic’ in this respect compared to some other (indian) females…
It’s not bad to take ‘offence’ but the reason for offence matters 🙂
Btw check out some bhatt movie song links from paap for some good guitar stuff–
As for jism2– also I don’t ‘hate’ sunny leone just bcos of her past activities -infact she is doing alright in the movie it seems and must have had some reasons we dont know about for her ‘activities’!
So let’s give her the benefit of doubt …
it’s bhatt who is to blame for greedy opportunism …why was he so desperate to induct a porn star ? Lol
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 1:08 PM
England beat Australia 4:0 in one dayers !!
Btw SA mark Boucher loses his eye and retires …
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:44 PM
With Boucher’s retirement, an era has ended in every sense Alex- he is the greatest ‘pure stumper’ (Gilchrist was a much better batsman and a cricketer overall but certainly a lesser keeper) since Ian Healy- one of my fav cricketers, Bouchy was a true gentleman. On England rumping Aussies’ asses, it was just a matter of time. When you have the kind of bowling attack which Poms have- u will win much more than u lose- it’s ultimately ‘bowlers’ who actually ‘win’ u games. Bell was stupendous with the bat
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:51 PM
Think the current english team is the best that I can remember recently …
Even the Aussies aren’t that bad as they have been made to look like…but their chinks were badly exposed.
Think the likes of and bell have come up but the bowling is looking really good
Swann could be rested with no problem…
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:55 PM
Even for the upcoming ashes/ tests..
The ‘duke’ ball will continued (not kookaburra!!) which will swing more and till longer (& torment the aussies longer!)
Ps : and crucially ‘reverse swing’ more
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 4:06 PM
Dude, ur observation on Duke balls is brilliant. you know in 1996, just when India was defeated in england, Pak toured England and thrashed them. At that time Reeder brand of balls were being preferred to the Duke ones. Wasim and Waqar used the balls to employ reverse-swing and late-swing at will whereas English pacers like Alan Mullaly could not swing it all simply because they did not know how to grip and handle these balls. And then Pak also had a champion leggie, Mushtaq Ahmed who had a deadly googly
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 4:13 PM
In general, both duke and reeder have a firmer seam, move around more n early
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:23 PM
the phrase ” keh ke loonga” has been the most misunderstood phrase and i think the reason is mr. kashyap himself.kashyap has often explained the phrase to mean….i will tell you before i fuck(destroy) you…the implication being….i will fuck(destroy) u from the front…..now this is not the implication at all…its idiotic to even think that the phrase implies such a thing….. this is a literal translation..but it does not conveys the loaded meaning/implication/wit of the actual hindi phrase into english.
even in the subtitles…the same literal version has been forced down our throat.
certainly the phrase means i will tell you before i fuck yu…but the implication is…that i will fuck you twice…..once when i tell u(yu will be insulted) and the second time when i actually fuck(destroy) you.
so keh ke loonga means…..i will fuck you twice.
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:30 PM
ahhh…makes sense now Anjali. I had never heard of this phrase in my life. Thanks for throwing light on it. I wonder why no B.W. director/story writer thought of using this interesting line in any of hindi movies before!!!
This clip is for Alex..prolly lot of girls do tthis to you as well…lolz:
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:36 PM
Anjali while u r spot-on with ur other translations i believe u r a little mistaken here- ‘keh ke loonga’ is a phrase very common at my place (lucknow) and i believe it is said in arrongance laden rage which means- ‘tujhe batane ke baad tujhe maroonga/ cho*unga’ – it is very common in villages where there are fights over farms (khet)- other funny phrase is ‘tumko patak ke peetenge’
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 3:36 PM
Haha Di : that was a nice one 🙂
Actually this ‘bhai’ syndrome is more restricted to India probably.
Hasn’t affected me fortunately …
Btw Di – have u seen GoW- any reviews?
Ps: thanx anjali for that info– NOW I’ve understood that phrase…
LikeLike
July 11, 2012 at 4:14 PM
Making of ‘bhoos’ in Spanish style…
Rehearsals on the street!
Authentic rustic village stuff by sneha
LikeLike
July 27, 2012 at 2:48 PM
Extremely striking Nawazuddin Siddiqui stills..
LikeLike
July 27, 2012 at 5:45 PM
Siddiqui certainly looks every bit the Bachchan-obsessed gangster that I guess he’s supposed to be playing here. Killing me that there’s no information about a forseeable home video (much less theater) release for this.
LikeLike
July 27, 2012 at 11:13 PM
Saw Gangs Of Wasseypur for the third time and I can make the claim that the amount of detailing that has went into the execution of every single scene is…… (for want of a better word I will call) obscene. Yes the film is obscenely realistic. Any one who has seen Black Friday and the kind of unapologetic,gritty realism that was portrayed in the film…can make out that this director…at least in this particular department( the creation and execution of realistic ambience) is without comparison…..no other Bollywood director in the whole history of cinema can match him on this. So many things are happening in every single shot…which may appear to be unrelated from the focus of the shot but they doend up creating the atmosphere of the place. To create the sound,smell,filthiness and depravity of the physical Wasseypur….from 41′ to the late 80s was a project more daunting than to create the same of Bombay(in Black Friday)…so one must pat Kashyap for that.
One can only say that he has a gift for this kind of hyper realism and one can only sit and admire….it is like a Kishore Kumar singing before you.
His craft on this aspect is spotless. Let us come to his art.
His themes,motifs,symbolism and the stories which incorporate them….which are a metaphor for his themes so to say….are deep down…one of subversion.To explain:
I had a friend(Bihari).He dabbled in visual graphics…made amateur comic strips.One of his dominant theme was to show the characters of Batman or Superman or other super heroes doing the most non heroic and in a way…. the most human of things.Like he created a one page strip in which he showed Batman in a public urinal relieving himself.He is in full Batman costume….his cloak is picturesquely flowing in the air…..his back is before us…and he is at it. The first pic focused on him only.the second pic focused on him and the next urinal which is empty…the third pic on him,the empty urinal and a third urinal from where another man…doing his thing…is looking at him curiously.
Like that he created a lot of other strips BUT the central theme of these strips was subversion and I think anurag kashyap’s art is also doing the same thing…he is a master of subversion.There is nothing else is Anurag Kashyap as an artist if you take this away from his stories.
Gangs of Wasseypur is a subversion of the whole glorification of Gangbaazi culture and the heroes they create.The mock heroic death of sardar khan with jiya of Bihar ke lala song blaring…..explains everything.
Just like Kashyap subverted the popular narrative of Devdas in Devd….he has subverted the popular narrative of godfather in gangs of wasseypur.And this is the main thing…other than this the film has practically no story….it is just a mockumentary that aims at subversion.Kashyap’s art can never be more than this…this is the main thrust of his artistic vision and outlook….First to create an ambience and scenario which is hyper real…the acting is pitch perfect and then through it to subvert all kinds of glorification and romantic nonsense with which society and culture has fed us.
LikeLike
July 27, 2012 at 11:39 PM
” I think anurag kashyap’s art is also doing the same thing…he is a master of subversion.There is nothing else is Anurag Kashyap as an artist if you take this away from his stories.
Gangs of Wasseypur is a subversion of the whole glorification of Gangbaazi culture and the heroes they create.The mock heroic death of sardar khan with jiya of Bihar ke lala song blaring…..explains everything.
Just like Kashyap subverted the popular narrative of Devdas in Devd….he has subverted the popular narrative of godfather in gangs of wasseypur.”
Interesting! You should write a few reviews of AK’s movies- you really seem to understand his cinema.
LikeLike
July 28, 2012 at 12:59 AM
Nice points there anjali on ‘hyper’ realism and ‘subversion’^^
“One can only say that he has a gift for this kind of hyper realism and one can only sit and admire….it is like a Kishore Kumar singing before you.”
Similarly, one can only sit back and admire some of these writeups of yours (& learn)… 🙂
Btw a GoW song that entered my system (against all odds)– the first of its kind that I’ve liked
Am hellbent on unleashing it to my bunch of amateur ‘musicians’
And intend to play it at some dance/parties etc ESP where nobody understands the language-will be fun
The making of the music of GoW and the work of sneha khanwalkar continues to amaze me
Btw feel she may be a good vulnerable presence in front of the camera as an actress as well maybe…
Anyhow, kashyap ‘unveiling’ this song-explaingin the histroy/setting/bakcground
the opening strains/buildup of this song is specially creditable coming from a girl -laudable
LikeLike
July 27, 2012 at 11:28 PM
Another super poster!
LikeLike
July 27, 2012 at 11:37 PM
Agree- these posters are gorgeous- the trailer was very well-done as well. From the promotional material it looks like part 2 is going to be the stronger half…
LikeLike
July 28, 2012 at 12:00 AM
yes I think so.. also more tightly knit..
LikeLike
July 28, 2012 at 1:23 AM
Huma Qureshi’s a natural beauty..!
LikeLike
July 28, 2012 at 1:33 AM
“more tightly knit..”
“Huma Qureshis natural beauty”
are these two related ? Lol
Humas ‘tightly knit’ beauty-
anyways…one should stop there !
LikeLike
July 28, 2012 at 1:57 AM
beauty doesnt imply only the things you look for buddy
LikeLike
July 28, 2012 at 2:01 AM
Haha know- was joking…
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:42 AM
It looks as if I can no more comment on the previous page. Is there a problem?
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:44 AM
Plz try ‘refreshing’ the site
Or else -forget it
U can keep commenting here
We will readjust later-no problems..
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:47 AM
I just hope no one has a problem with me here (I was assured no one will be having an issue with my presence here). I have not come here to advertise myself or in the capacity of an actor. I am a student of cinema and so thought that it will be fun interacting with people here who know much more than me about my field of work and I say this with all humility and seriousness.
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 8:07 AM
there is no issue at all.. your comments are all appearing.. on the replies the thread only goes so many levels deep..
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:51 AM
It’s our pleasure vivaan
Plz free to comment..
Btw I aske u earlier
Can u plz get the great Naseer here on this blog?
Who are your favorites amongst the current ‘big stars’
Ps-liked your gesture and frankness
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:57 AM
I do not understand the ‘star’ in that sense of the term. But anyway among the mainstream actors Aamir has left everyone behind- his own understand of his own strengthys and weaknesses as an actor coupled with his courageous choices regarding films makes him iconic
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:59 AM
“Aamir has left everyone behind- his own understand of his own strengthys and weaknesses as an actor coupled with his courageous choices regarding films makes him iconic”
Brilliant point vivaan -agree
Btw any actresses u like (being a guy)
C’mon tell us..
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:56 AM
Btw did u say u had a flight to catch
Just 2 remind u vivaan 😉
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:59 AM
Yes. Haha. Will take your leave. But will catch up with you guys sooner or later. Adieu
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:36 PM
Hahah- smart catch Alex 🙂
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 12:40 PM
“Btw did u say u had a flight to catch
Just 2 remind u vivaan ”
“Hahah- smart catch Alex ”
Thanx Amy 🙂
I appoint u my assistant in these investigations
Plz get your friend who is in Facebook ( ask her to log in via her Facebook profile here…lol
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 1:01 AM
Plz convey my kind regards to the great naseeruddin shah
Cheers and all the best
Do let us know of your upcoming projects and will keep an eye/discuss here
😉
LikeLike
July 29, 2012 at 5:46 AM
Welcome Vivaah. Admire your work in 7 Khoon Maaf. Held your own against the stalwarts
LikeLike
August 4, 2012 at 8:27 AM
Anurag of वासेपुर @ankash1009
Happy to announce that we’ll be releasing #GOW1 & #GOW2 both back to back in select screens & cities. I’ll post details shortly.
Anurag of वासेपुर @ankash1009
First confirmation for #GOW1 & #GOW2 back to back: PVR Phoenix #Mumbai
Satyam @Satyamk
@ankash1009 wow! that’s great! Hope some of these cities fall outside india!
Anurag of वासेपुर @ankash1009
So far #GOWmarathon 1&2 back to back: PVR Phoenix & Citywalk Saket. Now, PVR JUHU #Mumbai & PVR #Bangalore! From #WEDNESDAY 8th Aug.
Anurag of वासेपुर @ankash1009
#GOW1 & #GOW2 back to back screenings from 8th August: SELECT CITYWALK, SAKET #Delhi #GOWmarathon
Anurag of वासेपुर @ankash1009
#GOWmarathon back to back 1&2 now confirmed for #Pune Esquare, PVR #Ahmedabad Cinemax #Hyderabad From #WEDNESDAY 8th Aug.
LikeLike
August 4, 2012 at 8:27 AM
there still don’t seem to be similar engagements outside India along these lines. Or even separate ones. The only other place where it seems to have been screened this way is the last Sydney film festival.
LikeLike
August 5, 2012 at 9:10 AM
Anurag of वासेपुर @ankash1009
#GOWmarathon back2back part1&2 PVRs of #Bangalore #Ahmedabad and #Hyderabad Cinemax Inorbit. #Pune ESquare From #WEDNESDAY 8th August.
Anurag of वासेपुर @ankash1009
#Delhi NCR #GOWmarathon 1&2 back2back Delhi PVR Select city, Saket, Gurgaon: MGF & Ambience. Also PVR Chandigarh. #WEDNESDAY From 8th Aug.
Anurag of वासेपुर @ankash1009
#GOWmarathon 1&2 back to back for #Mumbai : PVR Phoenix, PVR Juhu, PVR Goregaon, PVR Mulund #WEDNESDAY From 8th August.
LikeLike
August 5, 2012 at 9:07 AM
taran adarsh @taran_adarsh
Watched #GangsOfWasseypur2. Much ahead of Part 1. Anurag Kashyap’s best work to date!
LikeLike
August 6, 2012 at 9:53 AM
Tehelka review:
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main53.asp?filename=Fw060812First_show.asp
LikeLike
August 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM
This is heartening and reason enough to see both parts in one go..
LikeLike
August 6, 2012 at 11:08 AM
not surprised that the second one is better because I’ve heard from a few sources that the ‘history’ in the first one gets a bit clunky and it takes some time for the narrative to really get going.
LikeLike
August 6, 2012 at 12:03 PM
Just wish we would see this in any fashion overseas at this point.
LikeLike
August 6, 2012 at 11:04 AM
will get to this another time but one of the ways in which the ‘anxiety of influence’ continues to haunt contemporary filmmakers is precisely when they try to engage seriously with the masala tradition. This isn’t a criticism by any means but it goes to the point that those great Salim-Javed scripts (it’s much more useful to refer to his body of work using the S-J signature than that of any of the directors because Yash Chopra was distinctly functional compared to Ramesh Sippy on Sholay.. so the true angry young man mythos whether by way of Mehra in Zanjeer or in those Yash Chopra films is really about the writing much more than the ‘directing’) are no easily tussled with whether one uses them cynically to spawn escapist entertainment or one tries to go ‘auteurist’ on them. and one of the principal reasons is that the task of re-reading this rich tradition in ways commensurate with the ‘present’ have not yet been discovered (barring in some of the Ratnam works). Even in the more auteurist works one senses this absence. The questions raised are simply not profound enough or radical enough.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 1:06 AM
review of Gow 2 by taran adarsh
http://www.bollywoodhungama.com/moviemicro/criticreview/id/553285
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 11:36 AM
with all due respect to Kashyap and even understanding (and having sympathy for) how he is trying to create buzz for his film and get at least his target audience more involved and so forth it’s a bit much when 99% of all his tweets are about GoW! Almost obsessively so for the last few months or ever since GoW was getting for release. It would still be one thing if he were tweeting ‘original content’ but he’s also retweeting not just reviews other people cite or put up but the most banal reactions (‘I really liked GoW’, ‘I saw it for the 5th time last night’, ‘I think it beats Citizen Kane’! I exaggerate a bit with this last one but given the well-advanced tribe of Kashyap ‘fans’ and their unrestrained statements this is by no means much of one). Again there’s a lot of useful info he provides as well. I’ve come across some valuable pieces this way (though I have yet to come across a truly thought-provoking negative piece put up by him.. and there have been a few.. or else the retweeting of the same when such has come up), the info he supplies on some of the screenings is hard to get elsewhere, and again he has intensified interest among those already ‘leaning’ toward the film but who might not have necessarily checked it out in the theater. The box office performance of the first film has been impressive and the second one might do a lot more. I am cheering for this all the way. Few box office results have pleased me as much in recent times. So I certainly wish him all possible success. But the reason I am nonetheless ‘cribbing’ about this is because it does start seeming a bit too narcissistic beyond a point. These days there is lots of media coverage, Kashyap himself has done all the major outlets and shows (including even Nahta’s). So it’s not as if he’s depending on twitter buzz for any sort of visibility here! To use twitter as simply an advertising tool in this sense is disappointing. Because I think he could be saying interesting stuff about other subjects or at least films at the same time. Before this he was on the Shanghai track and again 99% of the tweets were about this.
Will make this other point once more. That his fans tend to be of the most depressing sort in very many instances. I don’t mind overstatement (I’m hardly less guilty of this on many occasions!) or a hyperbole that speaks more to one’s passion for the subject than anything else but he seems to have (consciously or otherwise) nurtured a kind of cult. His fans (and we’ve seen a couple of unfortunate examples on this blog at times) consistently say the most outrageously hyperbolic (to the point of losing all meaning) stuff about his films. There is simply no room for sane discourse. And it’s regrettable that this is happening with the work of a director who is otherwise interesting in so many ways and who’s providing the right kinds of sparks in Bollywood on a regular basis.
My sense in these matters always is that once one ‘agrees’ that a film is important or worthy of discussion one can move beyond the basics (‘good film’, ‘great film’) and talk about the work in more stimulating fashion. Even if one has a negative impression of the film as long as one starts off with that basic premise (that the film deserves to be debated) one has been part of a serious discussion. Otherwise it’s just about the fanboy (or fangirl) stuff. And again not saying that Kashyap actively wants this but let’s say that everything he does by way of his own interventions (the stuff he quotes and so on) is ‘atmospherically’ (if nothing else) very consonant with these cult-like responses. And this is troubling. What’s the point if anytime there’s a more interesting effort like GoW the response is exactly the sort that the audiences (or the media) offer with respect to far more regular and mundane industry efforts? Similarly even where proper pieces are attempted if they mostly lack critical analysis and are excuses for the same cult-like celebration that too is a waste.
This gets to my much larger concern which is that it’s not only about making the right kinds of films and so forth but also fostering an environment where the right critical discussions (and hopefully in time the appropriate critical apparatus) can emerge.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 11:41 AM
conversely you see here Rohan Sippy being the most unassuming guy around! Among this generation’s more ‘auteurist’ talents he’s been the least self-professed, self-pronounced sort but equally the least willing to give himself over to the usual media outlets for self-lionization (directly or indirectly.. he’s in any case something of an ‘outsider’ to the industry apparatus despite being at the heart of it.. just doesn’t seem to be into the whole ‘back-patting’ scheme of things, even when it comes to comparable peers…incidentally he has the most interesting tweets of any Bollywood figure I am aware of). But we see the result. His films are consistently underrated. He’s certainly not celebrated the way some of his other (in most cases less-deserving) peers are. He doesn’t seem to have a problem even with this but again it’s unhealthy for the larger discourse.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:01 PM
The inexplicable obsession with Rohan Sippy is one of those things about this space that fascinates me. An ‘auteurist’? Really? I am not mocking. I am just genuinely baffled. This is obviously a discussion between some really cinema-informed (more than me), intelligent people. But I don’t get this. Rohan is a totally tame, uninspiring film maker at best. He is not underrated. He is just ignored. Yes, some other undeserving film makers get more coverage than him, that’s just bad luck, besides other factors. Doesn’t mean he needs undeserved attention too, because others are getting it. And there is obviously no comparison between him and Kashyap. Not because of different sensibilities, but just as people involved in the same craft. I seriously doubt he’ll ever make anything that will leave a mark in any sense whatsoever, I’ll be pleasantly surprised if he does. He hasn’t done much original work, but that’s not even the issue. Sanjay Gupta’s more attention grabbing style in his obviously lifted (and not very well, in my opinion) work at least, well, grabbed attention. Sippy can’t even do that because he is too subdued. Even Bhatt camp generates some feelings, even though negative. Sippy generates none, he leaves people cold. His films are neither here, nor there, They just don’t matter. For that, he’ll have to make something original, with some energy to it.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:21 PM
Anya: absolutely agree with that post of yours…
Infact I share the same ‘surprise’ as u
But unfortunately u have said some thing ‘blasphemous’ here
After utkal uncle and anjali, I may have to ‘protect’ u as well now
🙂
And be ready to get your comments deleted soon hahaha
Ps: though I don’t think sippy is ‘listless’ and ‘totally useless’ but the way he has been sold here and that too by v v sensible follks is truly inexplicable…
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:36 PM
Don’t worry, I can defend myself. It’s a good rule of thumb in life to be wary of people who offer to ‘protect’ you 🙂
Anyways, trying to understand this phenomenon on the blog. Hope to read more discussion about classics and international films here, will make things more interesting. GOW has sort of finished its run and trade drooling over ETT will hopefully be almost over and done with by the end of the week. Back to sanity and conversation.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:43 PM
“It’s a good rule of thumb in life to be wary of people who offer to ‘protect’ you :)”
Well said!
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:39 PM
“Anyways, trying to understand this phenomenon on the blog. ”
Haha have been trying to ‘understand’ as correct this for a while with only partial success ..
Btw let’s ask a pertinent question to satyam:
How much is the ‘appeal’ and ‘worth’ of bluff master as a classic product due to Rohan sippy and how much due to abhishrek bachchan ?
😉
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:45 PM
If it were only due to Abhishek we’d be talking about Dostana as much! Or even at a more serious level Naach (a film incidentally where I like the first half a lot before RGV goes all tame.. as I’ve said before the naturalism of the first half in many ways is the closest RGV gets to Rathnam).
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:32 PM
I am not at liberty to get into details here but interestingly many of Bollywood’s hot shots who are celebrated in the media actually tend to look upto Sippy quite a bit as defining the ‘best’ in certain ways.
But note how my point at least has been that Sippy isn’t an auteur nor aims to be one. Nor do I find it odd if many don’t like him. My only somewhat ‘objective’ claim was that in terms of his formal registers it’s hard to think of anyone who can ‘beat’ him on this score if at all.
On being subdued I can understand that criticism with BM (though I’d say this was the point of the film) but do you really consider DMD ‘subdued’? If one is going for a certain flash or razzle dazzle how is this film ‘less’ compared to many other such efforts?
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:44 PM
Obviously, you know something I don’t about inside discussion of and regard for his skills, they haven’t translated on screen for me as a viewer. I can only go by what I see. And I don’t see anything remotely interesting about his ‘formal registers’, my only response to him is ‘meh’. By subdued, I meant his storytelling lacks any energy. If manufactured flash and dazzle could make things interesting, many Indian films would be buzzworthy but they are not. The whole Deepika item number thing using an old popular classic, is as lame and cliched as it gets. And the uninspiring picturisation of the same is symptomatic of the overall problem. Everything is there, but it amounts to nothing.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:50 PM
I was just responding to your ‘subdued’ comment and the Sanjay Gupta analogy. If you credit the latter with ‘something’ on this score I’m not sure how DMD is poorer.
On the film though I’m not sure if you’ve seen these but I can only point you to some blog pieces (not to change your mind by the way but just on this particular point of contention):
On BM the comments are too scattered, at some point I’ll try to collect these in a post.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:51 PM
by the way not particularly a fan of that video myself..
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:49 PM
I agree on Naach, more interesting than anything Sippy has done, of course it petered out in the second half.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:57 PM
Gupta’s high-octane flash made people take notice is all I mean, don’t think of him much either, very second-rate maker in my opinion. And he hasn’t been able to generate any interest lately either as you may have noticed, probably with people becoming more familiar with the originals over time. He hasn’t successfully copied anything lately. Neither have Bhatts for that matter, for all the noise they make. I have been lurking on the blog for long, have read a lot of what you wrote on BM, that’s why the comment. I just don’t see what people are seeing. Very bland, generic body of work on the whole.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 1:22 PM
” I have been lurking on the blog for long, have read a lot of what you wrote on BM, that’s why the comment. I just don’t see what people are seeing. Very bland, generic body of work on the whole.”
Haha anya : well said: though I personally give sippy a bit more credit than that…
The one good thing poor sippy did (after anjalis ‘napoleon joke’) was to ‘force’ folks like u to stop ‘lurking’ and ‘speak up’
Welcome 🙂
Ps: don’t think much of Sanjay gupta
Though loved kaante– -a guilty pleasure and prefer it over everything sippy has ever made (visual register or not!) 🙂
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 11:45 AM
on that note the TOI review:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/movie-reviews/hindi/Gangs-of-Wasseypur-2/movie-review/15387551.cms
the film is getting 4/5 stars in most of the major reviews.
Got this info from Kashyap’s tweets.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:05 PM
Agree with everything you’re saying and especially on fostering the right sort of environment but I can also understand and perhaps empathize with why Kashyap might be going out on an all-out blitz with social media. His films aren’t the kind that will necessarily get the right sort of mileage out of traditional avenues in publicity. And these sorts of efforts through twitter or what not probably energize the base more than anything else. Of course that this base was always going to support him and watch GoW is a foregone conclusion so, as you suggest, he definitely does need to branch out and try to perhaps create the right kind of atmosphere for a more progressive, balanced engagement with his movies. On the other hand for a guy who saw himself as an outsider for so many years at the beginning of his career, (and certainly capitalized on this outsider image later) I can see why he’s tempted to feed the cult even if this is a rather disappointing way to go about writing one’s story.
Incidentally I have a twitter account but I rarely if ever check it or subscribe to very many pages. I can see how the constant spamming on the part of a user can be a bit much. From your description it certainly seems like Kashyap’s overdoing it. And Sippy is the right counterexample here. He’s certainly more on the Ratnam side of the fence in terms of how careful he is about what he chooses to speak about. Kashyap on the other hand seems like enough of a talker (a meaner way of putting it would be saying he’s a bit of a blowhard) outside of the digital world that this sort of tweeting is unsurprising.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:16 PM
To be very brutal about this- Kashyap is a much more recognized filmmaker than Sippy- so the blowhard tendencies have taken him further than Sippy’s self-deprecation. I think that the industry they work in requires a certain amount of self-promotion and while Sippy’s unassuming nature is both refreshing and endearing it might not be the best thing for his career.
Not to mention that Kashyap is the outsider while Sippy is a part of Bollywood’s privileged inner circle of star kids. Perhaphs Sippy’s modesty comes in part from his sense of security and the fact that he is well-aquainted enough with celebrity and critical acclaim to be able to handle it with grace. On the other hand- Kashyap has far more of a need to prove himself- and probably gains greater satisfaction from the praise he recieves (however banal it maybe).
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:22 PM
Again- when you look at Ratnam refusing to defend himself while the press goes beserk tearing into Raavan(an) and indicating that this film is his ‘downfall’ as a filmmaker- you cannot help but wonder if his extreme modesty is not a curse. Raavan was well-recieved by the few western publications that reviewed it and if Ratnam had gone on a similar international festival tour and aggresively published the foreign approval of his film- the Indian press would have slavishly followed suit. And then the public reading of the film’s commercial failure would have been very different- that the film was too sophisticated for Indian tastes and that Ratnam was a misunderstood genius.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM
In this way I think that Kashyap has acutally been very clever- he makes films that are not entirely commercially safe- and then goes about aquiring a foreign prestige for them that he flaunts back home- thus insulating himself from any negative commentary if his films are to flop- since no Indian critic will dare write anything negative about a film that has won acclaim abroad.
Then of course there are the insults to mainstream cinema- he points out that Bollywood is generally a joke abroad, that most Indian films are unofficial entries at Cannes unlike his own etc- in this way he alters the terms of the game to suit himself by pandering to our inferiority complex- so what if a Salman Khan makes 100 croes? It would still be ridiculed at Cannes! So what if nobody saw That Girl In Yellow Boots? It still won an approving review from Ebert!- this maybe not the most admirable behaviour but it is very efficient manipulation of the press by an offbeat filmmaker who perhaps has to do these things in order to continue making films on his own terms.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:53 PM
true, Ratnam’s much the same way. One of the reasons I’m looking forward to the Rangan book so much. No one has said less about his career relative to its merits than Ratnam. At least in India I can’t think of anyone else.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:59 PM
true but to be honest to play the Kashyap game or be successful at it (even when there’s box office failure.. and this is not to ignore the problems he often has financing his works) you have to operate at that ‘lower’ level. In other words if he does the Bombay period piece with Ranbir he can’t get away with a failure (though I would expect this to be the kind of film and performance that’s lionized like no other!). Ratnam has made larger scale films. Now with Raavan the Abhishek narrative was a huge part of it, there wouldn’t have been such hysteria with another star, but the Bombay media has always had a Rathnam complex. This need to run down the ‘hot shot’ Southern filmmaker who doesn’t move to Bombay when given the chance a la RGV. So Dil Se was brutally reviewed as was Yuva. Guru got good reviews but the highest praise was still reserved for the performance not the film and of course they more than made up for it with Raavan (which judging by the reactions was the worst film ever made). Again the Abhishek narrative cannot be separated from this. here was a filmmaker saying he would pretty much only work with Abhishek if he did Hindi. The fact that he had started out with SRK highlighted this even more.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:33 PM
I don’t agree that it’s his blowhard tendencies that have made him more reputable/known than Sippy. It’s the volume and quality of his filmmaking. Simple as that. Kashyap is a prolific director and has made the types of films that easily draw the attention and praise of the critical apparatus, especially considering the kind of critics we see in India. And I’m not saying he’s a simple panderer getting undeserved laurels here, just to be clear. I think he’s a strong filmmaker. But he’s also a very different one from Sippy. Sippy works very slowly (three films in a decade!) and within the mainstream but in BM and DMD he has made strong, thoughtful films that are arguably more difficult to embrace for a critical community that has its lens skewed away from the mainstream – as has been the case historically, for the most part. In any case, I’d say If anything the part of Kashyap’s persona that tends to talk rather thoughtlessly has accomplished nothing if not nurture a certain resistance to his figure. Though I suppose this too adds to his aura in some fashion. There’s a thin line between notoriety and infamy.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 1:00 PM
once again agreed on everything..
LikeLike
August 18, 2012 at 12:11 PM
bluff master was based on nine queens and the game….sippy made a bollywood nautanki out of a story line(which was borrowed from the west)
though i enjoyed the movie…after seeing the original argentinian flick i realized how sippy ruined a really interesting subject.
the only stand out performance was of nana patekar.
LikeLike
August 18, 2012 at 11:16 PM
Unsurprising comment here. Kashyap fans as ardent as yourself would definitely recognize a filmmaker borrowing from the West.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 1:50 AM
Personally, I thought Bluffmaster was better than Nine Queens: the latter was a film about a great con (admittedly by film’s end, there was an attempt to tie this into the great con that was the Argentinian boom/bust); whereas Bluffmaster! is a film about cinema/Bollywood in a “meta-” sense.
LikeLike
August 18, 2012 at 12:24 PM
Hmm thanx for that info anjali
Didn’t know that- was under the impression that Rohan had made an original ..
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 2:06 AM
But GF, Anjali does have a point here. I haven’t seen 9 Queens but the climax of BM was definitely inspired from The Game. So there should and will be deduction of marks as far as originately is concerned-don’t get me wrong. i still believe BM is a very fine caper (and then sumthing more) but it’s not as original as DMD. I mean I love Kaante but at the end of the day we have to realise that it was an RD rip-off with few changes (btw found both Kaante and Musafir better than their originals)
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 8:01 AM
I think there’s a difference between ‘copying’ and getting inspired by something to in turn recast it in a very different way in your work. I see the point about the Game but I too think BM is more ‘like’ Nine Queens than the latter. On that note DMD has even more references in this sense to a number of films. The best example here is his father’s Sholay which again pays homage to more than a few important films in a number of its moments. The master here was Leone who in Once Upon a Time in the West (incidentally the murder of the family here finds an exact parallel in Sholay) alluded to an extraordinary number of iconic Westerns in a variety of ways. It’s not just about cinema, in any art form there is always this ‘borrowing’ from previous works. The question again is: does the result make something new out of this ‘influence’? I think BM does this. So for me the presence of a ‘strand’ from another film is not determinative in a negative sense at all. Sholay is very much its own film irrespective of what it has ‘borrowed’ from elsewhere. In fact it’s hard to think of too many films, even great ones that are completely ‘original’ in this sense. The same goes for music or literature or what have you.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 8:34 AM
Satyam, the ‘climax’ and story threads in BM have been ripped off/ copied from The Game- i am not saying this to pull BM down but when i saw The Game later i could clearly see how much has been copied from The Game (it may be the case that u may have not revisited The Game in some yrs so may have forgotten abt the film- u should check it out). This is completely different from homages in DmD and westerns. For me BM still remains a very fine film but yes I would put The Game above it any day
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 8:35 AM
I remember the Game very well and I know what you’re referring to.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 8:59 AM
While we’re at it, BM also shares similarities with Matchstick Men and Bowfinger! The point is though that while the film draws from these wells it absolutely stands on its own. I resist the “copy” allegations as an absolute pejorative here because despite some overtly similar gestures (and I do agree here) a Sanjay Gupta style transplant never seems the objective of the film. Satyam’s made this point much more eloquently than myself, so I’ll leave it at that.
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:25 PM
Hmmm thanx for adding ‘ the game’ on to the list as well 🙂
And btw ‘nine queens’ is already there…
And someone added two more names, it seems
But hey: these were just ‘inspirations’ which obviously is not to be counted as ‘copies’
Ps: the one ‘real’ cult classic by sippy (ie bluff master out of three films in total!) is suddenly throwing in new suprises
Or let’s say: skeletons from the cupboard hohoho
LikeLike
August 19, 2012 at 12:34 PM
You’ve missed the point of my longer comment. I could point out tons of ‘references’ for Kashyap’s films too! The kind of police procedural BF is has analogies in many cinemas of the world. One could keep going down the list and find equivalents. I don’t hold ‘this’ against Kashyap though much as I don’t hold Shakespeare’s influences against him!
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:51 PM
yes you do definitely have a point (though I wouldn’t call Kashyap a blowhard) specially in the second paragraph. It is not that Rohan Sippy (or his friend Abhishek!) are self-deprecating because they’re privileged but that only someone privileged could even have the luxury of being that self-deprecating. In other words they get all the credit in the world for being this way when 99% of people from the same background are not. On the other hand if you don’t have that background this isn’t even a possibility. Because you never have the same sort of secure identity.
LikeLike
August 15, 2012 at 1:52 AM
Re: “Not to mention that Kashyap is the outsider while Sippy is a part of Bollywood’s privileged inner circle of star kids. ”
Astute point Ami — i.e. there is certainly a social aspect to this, in that the insider has the privilege of being classy in a way denied to the arriviste…
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:49 PM
fair points all..
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 1:41 PM
Actually I like Rohan sippy brand of movies and think he is a talented soul
Also a nice guy offscreen -the little I’ve seen
But agree with amy here–
That there’s no comparison of Rohan sippy with anurag kashyap any way one looks at it ..
With due respect to both…
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 1:47 PM
“To be very brutal about this- Kashyap is a much more recognized filmmaker than Sippy- so the blowhard tendencies have taken him further than Sippy’s self-deprecation. I think that the industry they work in requires a certain amount of self-promotion and while Sippy’s unassuming nature is both refreshing and endearing it might not be the best thing for his career”–hmm agree
To add though —
The ‘well recognised internationally’ bit doesn’t come that easy
And for all those who actually credit /follow kashyap or are his ‘fans’, it’s not really his Cannes appearances etc-I’m not his fan but that’s not the main reason of his appeal for me!
Well, as always I will be straightforward about it and won’t consider knk, even bluff master to be on the same page as kashyap (privileged upbringing or not!)
Unfortunately speaking frankly here and inspite of seeing some obvious issues in kashyaps cannot see (m)/any in the Indian film scene like kashyap (forget Rohan sippy)
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 2:05 PM
well Sippy is ultimately a more mainstream filmmaker than Kashyap. So a direct comparison isn’t really possible. One can however look at some of the ‘technical registers’ (and/or visual panache) and without being the most schooled in this matter I am fairly confident that it is not easy to come up with someone in contemporary Bollywood (at any level) who surpasses what’s on store in DMD or even aspects of BM. I am told that many of Bollywood’s hot shots even recognize this!
Of course Kashyap is not an ordinary filmmaker by any stretch. I have liked most of what he’s done at some level or the other (haven’t seen GoW yet) but I don’t think he’s so far made anything that is as ‘complete’ of an achievement as Black Friday. Either the efforts are modest (Dev D) or flawed (Gulaal). Obviously he is at a certain end of the spectrum where he can be more constantly ‘auteurist’ in terms of his subjects.
But I’d also add here that Rohan Sippy’s two films (I don’t really count KNK here, though the film is quite alright it’s not comparable to these other two) are rather deceptive ones in many ways. Intelligent but in a less showy way. Or even the plot twists are not necessarily the whole deal in these. Mehra (whom I also like a great deal) is even on his best day not deceptive in this sense. The reason this is important is that once again Rohan Sippy is the kind of filmmaker with whose work it is not as easy to spot ‘everything’ as with Mehra’s (or some others). BM and DMD intrigue me. Some other films that I like even more don’t. Again this kind of filmmaker gets underrated whereas the Shanghai filmmaker (an utterly overrated film if there was one!) does not.
Kashyap can oscillate between these two poles. So you have No Smoking on one side of the equation and Dev D on the other. But the thing is that even when it’s not easiest to interpret him the ‘cult’ comes in handy. So the message is ‘even if you don’t get everything this is European art-house cinema and therefore you should still appreciate it’! Barring No Smoking though, the film of his which I least like (even though at some level it might be the most interesting), I haven’t found any of his films particularly intriguing.
The larger point I’m trying to make here is that Kashyap is ‘good’, just not as ‘good’ as many seem to think relative to the subjects and genres he’s attempted. Does this still make him better than 99% of the others in his industry? Sure! But that’s not a yardstick I necessarily follow.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 2:21 PM
and on the ‘deceptive’ point let me use two examples here, both of which I adore. Firstly, Khakee. This is a film I don’t need to say more about. I find it extraordinary in very many ways. Then there’s the first Munnabhai. This is an equally good film in its genre (though I’d ultimately take Khakee over it) but it is also a ‘deceptive’ film. And even though it was loved by everyone, critics and audiences alike, no one really commented on some of this other stuff. The film offers an entire ‘sly’ commentary on the notion of the ‘clinical medicine’ and/or ‘madness’ (almost as if Hirani had read some Foucault in a hurry!). The sequel is as good as is humanly possible but this seems less sharp to me in this sense. In any case my point again is that this kind of element in a film is harder to recognize for a critical apparatus not trained to do so. Whether the film works or not, is liked or not, this kind of element will rarely be picked up on. With Khakee there are a number of very interesting things happening here but they’re all pretty obvious.
Simplifying things to a degree..
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 1:50 PM
The true test for the appeal/worth of kashyap versus Rohan sippy would be —
If /when kashyap somehow makes a film with either ofthe two BachchAns and compare it with their film with sippy..
I’m not being delberately difficult here,
But certai things just look too obvious ..
Ps-this is not to belittle sippy or his association with BachchAns
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 2:09 PM
“But certain things just look too obvious ..”
99.9% of the time when one makes this claim one is in error. Unless one is comparing Houseful to Dil Se nothing is ever ‘obvious’.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 2:20 PM
Also a biggish deal is being made about kashyaps Cannes appearances and his ‘low budget dealings’
That’s again not the real point..
Even mallika sherawat had appearances at Cannes in those attires ( if I’m not mistaken -maybe Amy remembers the exact attire lol)
Umpteen film makers make low/modest budget films-or mammoth budgets-who cares really
Most are mediocres at the end of the day
Budget/privilege/Cannes/ genre nothwihtstanding
Only ONE thing matters beyond a point-
True ability & class!!
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 2:33 PM
It’s not about the budget but about the kind of filmmaking one has the luxury of doing at a certain end of the spectrum. In other words it’s one thing to be ‘radical’ with 10 crores and no major stars, quite another to be so with 50 crores and major stars! Very few filmmakers do the latter. Even in Hollywood filmmakers become tamer after starting off in more interesting fashion once they get the big productions. Partly that’s the only deal the studios are willing to give them. In some cases after they’ve had some success this way they try to enable their own films (Soderberg with Che for example) or they develop enough clout to keep their bigger productions more risky (Mann with Public Enemies..). But this doesn’t happen most of the time. There are various pressures.
In Bombay in some ways this is more possible because at the production end folks tend to be far more clueless. Mehra would never be allowed to make a D6 kind of film in Hollywood. The producers would poll-test it, focus-group it to death and figure out it wasn’t an acceptable film. The same goes for many other films too. Here Ratnam because of his extraordinary prestige has been able to do what he wants most of the time over the last two decades despite having had failures almost in all cases on the most ambitious projects. He makes a ‘safer’ film from time to time but really he hasn’t compromised much on his aspirations otherwise. So people sometimes unkindly attack him for not being too successful but that’s absurd. He’s not been so because he’s attempted stuff like Iruvar and Dil Se and KM and Raavan and whatever. The films are in all cases either too radical or too ambiguous or at least ‘disappoint’ expectations in certain ways.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 2:42 PM
Agree about khakee / munnabhai comparisons and the ‘deceptions’ there irrespective of the genre/sensibilities
But sometimes, the difference becomes too obvious …
No amount of budget, genre, sensibility, deception can bridge that gap
For eg I would consider even Rakesh mehra is in a different space compared to many like rohan sippy ( even though he undeperformed in Delhi))
These sort of characters can always ‘deliver’ suddenly
One can’t expect any other maker to suddenly reach a certain level even taking idiosyncrasies into account
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 3:05 PM
“But sometimes, the difference becomes too obvious …”
You keep saying this but I’m not sure what that ‘obvious’ is!
“For eg I would consider even Rakesh mehra is in a different space compared to many like rohan sippy”
I don’t agree and when you find the ‘many’ like Rohan Sippy let me know! On second thoughts strike that last bit. You might actually list 40 directors here!
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 3:13 PM
Haha rakeysh mehra > rohan sippy imo
(inspite of my grave concerns about Delhi 6!)
Think with someone like rohan sippy, a more worthwhile comparison maybe Milan luthria …( though some may find that flattering …(for rohan sippy) 🙂
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 3:41 PM
“Think with someone like rohan sippy, a more worthwhile comparison maybe Milan luthria …( though some may find that flattering …(for rohan sippy) :-)”
You’re forgetting Sajid Khan..
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 3:42 PM
Just to add– another particularly qualm for the likes of ‘young’ film makers like rohan sippy and even shaad ali..
The ‘breaks’ they take would lead one to believe that the Indian counterpart of a Ben hur or maybe titanic or some such biopic is on the way–
Hahaha
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 3:44 PM
true.. but with some of the others one wishes there were long breaks!
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 3:58 PM
I’d take Sippy over every mainstream filmmaker barring Ratnam and Hirani at this point. Mehra’s up there too but I prefer Sippy.
” a more worthwhile comparison maybe Milan luthria …”
You do realize he directed the 2004 Deewar and not the 1975 one, right? Just checking.
LikeLike
August 14, 2012 at 1:50 PM
brilliant comment and understanding of the situation Satyam….
maza aa gaya..
although I am of the view that the film (GOW-1 is good)..but is not important for bollywood…it is a routine masala filum…thodee gaali, thodee raw action, thoda realistic location, thoda folk music …makes it above average and the chamchas think it is a master piece …..
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 12:11 PM
“the film is getting 4/5 stars in most of the major reviews.”
That’s good
At any rate, more power to the likes of kashyap is good for Indian cinema -in more ways than one
If not on other ways, to break the incestuous cycle of contacts/relatives/sons /daughters getting breaks (though one can discount a few kalkis)
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 9:44 PM
Once again on the topic of the GoW tweets the amusing thing is that people who used up every superlative in the language to describe GoW1 are now coming back to say GoW2 is way better and what not. Clearly that infinity point wasn’t reached the first time around! Meanwhile there are always a couple of people somewhere who compare the film or some moment in it to sex and orgasms!
In that old joke you ask people whether they’d rather give up sex or something else. The response is sex and it’s meant to be funny. In the Saif version of this (on Johar’s show with Kareena in attendance) he was asked whether he’d prefer giving up sex or films and his response was the latter (which of course misses the point). But with some of these GoW viewers they could very earnestly give up sex for the latest Kashyap film and judging by their responses they wouldn’t be missing anything!
Now don’t blame me if I’ve commented on this whole pornographic fascination with the gangster genre! Which of course lies on both sides of the equation!
More seriously though note how the gangster becomes a response to the messiness of democracy with all its endless deferrals, all its interminable rules and regulations and so on. The gangster (at least in this fantasy version) gets to the point! Acts at will as and when he wishes. Even the Godfather is quaint for such a world because there too there is a whole ethical code, a whole economy of ‘etiquette’ et al. People in this world are as constrained as they might otherwise feel in the larger democracy. But in these other kinds of gangster films the characters shoot who they will when they will, screw who they will when they will, swear at who they will when they will. And this is then supposedly the ‘truth’ of the messy democracy. actually it’s the very transgressive fantasy of the latter. The ‘reality’ of these works is the ultimate fantasy!
By the way it’s also hilarious how people who belong to this region or are deeply connected with it in some ways are willing to attest to the truth of such representations. But no one living in Bombay or NY etc suddenly becomes an authority on gangster life even if they’ve lived in these cities all their lives. But apparently knowing something about the hinterland is the same as knowing how gangsters live their lives. On this terrain everything becomes authentic and like ‘reality’. From the bourgeois household to the gangster everyone associated with these regions swears by the authenticity of the representations. Which of course confirms the idea that these are abstractions more than anything else.
LikeLike
August 7, 2012 at 10:05 PM
would like to disagree with your last paragraph.
a person from bombay cannot be equated with one from patna because the latter are politically more conscious.they read hindi news papers,know who their local mla is …they know which contractor has got the contract for constructing which bridge or road,etc,etc.
they know all the gory details and juicy stories of the gangster politician nexus .
probably because patna youth’s mentality is still semi urban.there is the who is doing what curiosity still very pervasive.
they have more idle time at their hands and patna/dhanbad r smaller cities in comparison to bombay.
the situation in patna especially before nitish was indeed shocking and still is.
though i agree anurag cronies are hyperbolic in their praise for this film…but we have to understand that all of them are not steeped in hollywood films and dont have great sense of cinema.for them it is something totally new.
i personally think gow is a break from all the gangster films made in bollywood.
LikeLike
August 8, 2012 at 7:37 AM
Thats an interesting take satyam and liked readig the comparisons there
” In that old joke you ask people whether they’d rather give up sex or something else. The response is sex and it’s meant to be funny. In the Saif version of this (on Johar’s show with Kareena in attendance) he was asked whether he’d prefer giving up sex or films and his response was the latter (which of course misses the point). But with some of these GoW viewers they could very earnestly give up sex for the latest Kashyap film and judging by their responses they wouldn’t be missing anything!Now don’t blame me if I’ve commented on this whole pornographic fascination with the gangster genre! Which of course lies on both sides of the equation!”
Actually this ‘pornographic comparison’ can actually be drawn by any of the ‘others’ in the target audience/ taste scale
For eg those not into adoor /not having seen his films can find the fascination of adoor fans a bit ‘orgasmic’ & so on With reference to his films 🙂
Though there is nothing wrong in this comparison..Lol
LikeLike