Bol Bachchan – a true review

a few not too unreasonable spoilers here..

The great Manmohan Desai in his late period made films that unlike his earlier efforts were less coherent, integrated scripts and much more a series of gags revolving around a loosely focused narrative point. As opposed to a linear plotline with its picaresque detours there was increasingly a privileging of the latter with the framing narrative then something the director had to dutifully return to from time to time without ever being completely committed to it. A parallel movement is also discernible within the work of his important contemporary, Prakash Mehra. What unites the two of course is the towering figure of Amitabh Bachchan, the ‘one-man industry’ of the age, perhaps the only one who has ever been so anywhere. The decision to translate the ‘Vijay’ signature into a one-man stand up act under the ‘Anthony’ star has led through many mutations and dilutions, North and South, to the present day masala resurgence of Bollywood which is essentially the contemporary Southern ‘comedy-actioner’ in Hindi. Most of the works are actual remakes but then there are some that without being so still share the basic aesthetic and political choices of the same. If this entire history now converges on a film called Bol Bachchan one should perhaps not be too surprised.

Even if Bol Bachchan ostensibly borrows the essential plot device of Hrishikesh Mukherjee’s extraordinary classic it is tonally and in terms of its larger filmic choices worlds removed from the exquisite refinement and sparkling intelligence of that older work. This itself cannot perhaps constitute an objection to a film whose ‘designs’ are so manifestly other to those of its source. For Shetty’s work is an affectionate mock homage to a whole treasure trove of masala tropes and these references especially come alive in the film’s dialog. At the same time the director pays very direct tribute to Mukherjee’s original in a variety of ways and these constitute some of his most vital moments. As does his constant interplay between the play and cinema. The whole ‘play within a play’ structure is for instance a rather inspired one throughout the narrative. Early on in the film the ragtap theatrical outfit which apparently takes all its cues from cinema is seen performing the original Golmaal. In the film’s parodic revelation moment this entire Hamlet trope comes more explicitly to the fore, necessarily by way of its most significant Bombay cinema manifestation. The latter especially involves a hilarious turning of the tables on social, class and gender lines. The reincarnation allusion seems only fitting in a film where Amitabh Bachchan is the presiding spirit. Contrary to what his always welcome presence indicates in the title track this film is very much about the ghosts of his history. Additionally Shetty laces the Golmaal framing device with a larger context of his own. In this reverse migration from the urban capital to the rural heartland a potent religious site becomes the ‘obstacle’ that truly sets things in motion.

Nonetheless the film is ultimately less than the sum of all these suggestive elements. Sprinkled as these are throughout the work they are never integrated into an authentic narrative that would do them justice. It is here that both the strengths and the weaknesses of ‘Desai-lite’ and the even ‘lighter’ resurrections of the same in contemporary Indian cinema become rather clear. Rohit Shetty’s essential devotion is to the gag. The whole film forms a collection of these and it is Shetty’s strength to keep churning them out situationally and even otherwise to always retain the film’s entertainment quotient and episodic drive. The looser narrative is in fairness always in focus. But the ‘deviations’ inform the film as decisively as in a Desai work like Coolie, a Mehra work like Namak Halal and more to the point a number of contemporary efforts emanating from the South. All of these works range from the supremely entertaining (the Amitabh Bachchan films) to the modestly engaging. But on some of these occasions one regrets the greater possibilities that were compromised to achieve instant, easier pleasures. Specially so when both could have been managed with a few of these scripts. Rohit Shetty’s film falls within this last category. It is not to confuse this director with the extraordinary Raju Hirani to suggest that in Bol Bachchan Shetty could nonetheless have forged a similar compromise even by sticking to his stylistic commitments. What the film achieves as entertainment is not inconsiderable but what it forgoes is vastly greater. This is not to rewrite his film but to highlight what he himself has put in it and yet not fully developed. Admittedly comedy cannot be completely burdened with the weight of ‘profundity’ or it loses the very fluid qualities that sustain it. But in some cases it is possible to fuse these two levels and achieve a formidable film, perhaps one for the ages. Rohit Shetty in easily his most ambitious film so far has chosen to evade this encounter. This is a pity. A very entertaining film at every turn but why was just this enough for the director given his own terms?

Rewind to Desai. Of course both Amar Akbar Anthony and Coolie are comparably episodic narratives. However the difference is that the world of the former is essentially picaresque or respects such a logic while that of the latter oscillates between high drama, even of the epic kind and large stretches involving gags. When the otherwise self-standing comedic sequence is kept too unmoored from its controlling narrative it can start subtracting from the latter. Because for large portions the audience has been away from the ‘thing itself’. Desai nonetheless switches gears at just the right moment in Coolie to recover some dramatic urgency but the result is still a somewhat uneven one unlike his preceding works (Suhaag or Naseeb would be other examples) where all the elements operate on the same plane and the controlling ‘time’ of the film is always minimally consistent. But Desai always had the trump card of Amitabh Bachchan who could in effect iron out these problems or even more crucially form a kind of connective tissue between the two. Where the film was in danger of risking its more serious project at the service of gags Bachchan’s interventions always embedded even these in political contexts or to be more mundane provided ‘substance’ to the proceedings. This was one advantage of his being such a “parallel text”. Conversely the absence of his signature has resulted in a kind of empty cinema in the work of his latter day followers. One gets the elements of the tradition, the gesturality but it all happens mechanically because the entire film operates at a surface level of ‘effects’ with few authentic ‘consequences’ if any.

It cannot be said that Rohit Shetty suffers from this particular problem in Bol Bachchan. His film assuredly maintains a tonal singularity. It is also not quite superficial in the sense of simply repeating gestures without organizing them into deeper ethical or political choices. Nonetheless the director betrays a similar symptom because the suggestions he raises throughout his work are not fleshed out enough. For example the temple emerges at the beginning of the film in a critical way but beyond this religion as a subject ceases to be important for anyone at any point. It is a total non-issue! The theater metaphors are important at the beginning and the end but are otherwise simply excuses for further situational comedy. As stated earlier at a purely mechanical level there are a number of hilarious moments in the films, some even inspired ones. Even when the plot gets clunky at times or indulges too much in an ill-defined sub-plot or when the film ends rather too abruptly these missteps are hardly fatal at that more basic level. Shetty though misses the Shakespearean and Desai (at his best) hint – when situational comedy is always involved in an economy with the film’s larger themes and concerns it becomes that much more effective. It leaves a greater residue because it is also doing double duty by commenting on those ‘deeper’ narrative strains.

For all this Shetty does have his own rescue here. His film never completely reaches that impasse that it (on my terms) always risks. Because in a move parallel to that of Desai’s Shetty too is trafficking in the same potent signature. By placing Abhishek at the heart of his film or by reopening this ‘Bachchan’ site even if with half-baked commitment the director too manages to substantially bridge this divide. It is hardly to confuse Abhishek’s fine and often extraordinary talents with his father’s titanic gifts to suggest that on this particular score the son can nonetheless operate with comparable impact as the heir to his father’s great signature. For even when Shetty does not go all the way in developing something he has introduced earlier Abhishek’s presence lends greater gravitas to the proceedings than would have been the case with any other actor. He becomes the carrier of the Bachchan resonance in the precise sense of all the politics and emancipatory moves associated with this signature. This itself is hardly new. Many of Abhishek’s directors have been aware of just this facet but it is noteworthy that even someone like Rohit Shetty who has never been concerned with any such ‘profounder’ contexts in the past chooses to inaugurate these in just this work. And of course it all begins with the suggestive decision of establishing a twin religious identity for the actor. The Bachchan history informs all of this and Abhishek once again is here as before an authentic bearer of this long dormant (on screen) legacy.

In a sense the overwhelmingly positive responses to his performance here are right for the wrong reasons and something similar could be said about Ajay Devgan’s own intervention in the film. Abhishek is certainly ‘fine’ in this part, he carries the film in very many ways but as performance this is not extraordinary by any means. As Abbas Abhishek attempts something new (for him) and comes through remarkably but otherwise though perfectly alright in the other portions he is hardly path-breaking as many of the responses would have one believe. One should be even more candid. The actor has done such good work in the past, most recently (and impressively) in Dum Maaro Dum, that a lot of this would seem par for the course for him. Even if he has not attempted something quite as over the top as this before. Once more this is not to find fault in his performance anywhere, it is simply to place some of those other efforts including a much maligned effort like Delhi 6 on a higher pedestal. Perhaps this is the wrong way to frame things when the films and the parts are so distinct. But it is certainly fair to argue against the terms of the dominant debate in these matters which as always misses the mark. Abhishek carries the film but he does not need to be a supreme actor to do so with this film. At least not with his resources as an actor and star.

On a similar note a lot of the coverage has been unfair to Ajay Devgan. This is a truly endearing outing on his part. The problem here is not that he does not seem as central as Abhishek in a literal sense and so forth. The real issue is that his character though constantly affectionate and engaging his performance is ultimately a one note performance. In this sense he fits in well into the world of this film where most of the actors do well in the very same way and share the very same kind of chemistry. Abhishek means something ‘more’ for the reasons just illustrated, Devgan cannot give rise to such signification because he does not carry the same symbolic weight but he also does not quite have the nuance as an actor to make his character more than the obvious. He is keyed a certain way, he plays that note very well but he is this throughout the film. And so even though he is very effective he is only so ‘within’ this world as opposed to Abhishek who can transcend it to some degree. In this precise sense Rohit Shetty too pulls off a Desai-like trick much as Abhishek can ‘reinvest’ the film and of course his character(s) with the advantages of his signature.

Finally, and perhaps repetitively, it would be hard to dislike Bol Bachchan even if one did not succumb entirely to it but from my perspective it is that greater film that might have been, the loss of which must be rued. The argument against Shetty here is that he himself did not fashion ‘just entertainment’. He merely let his lesser instincts win over him eventually even if he advanced in a better direction compared to many previous efforts. The film is a winner in very many ways including for its central star but it forgets to collect its own greater rewards..

202 Responses to “Bol Bachchan – a true review”

  1. Satyam, i am busy rt. now but will say this that i am very disappointed with you- why are such brilliant pieces of yours written on such mediocre films like BB (the films, apart from Abhi’s super-act, did not work for at all and which i found worse than the 1st Golmaal, ATB, Singham)- sadly the ones like AV, Vicky Donor, Kahani, PST (though GF’s were outstanding) have gotten no piece from ur side. Even in mainstram comedies, we have had better films- the 2 Dibakar films, 99 and so on.

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    • but haven’t your disproved your own point? If you say it is ‘brilliant’ (not that I’m agreeing with it) my only claim would be that it is related to a larger discussion that I constantly indulge in anyway and for which BB for certain reasons offers a ‘site’. In other words I am not saying too much about the film here if you read closely, I am commenting on a larger trend in many ways for which BB is an example. But this larger discussion interests me anyway. I return to it again and again in all sorts of contexts. On those other films many do not interest me as much even when I like them. I have really nothing to say about Vicky Donor Liked Kahani a lot but again I have no larger discussion to launch here. Could have said something on PST admittedly. Did say a lot on Ishaqzaade but left it as two very long comments as opposed to create a longer post out of it partly because I felt Qalandar’s piece had summarized most of what I wanted to say. Again do plan to say something on Shanghai but again it’s not a film that impressed me particularly. Now one could argue that I saw more about Abhishek’s films. That’s certainly true but again my precise point here has always been that because of his signature he is invested with a certain meaning that many others aren’t. and many of his directors seem to intuit this as well. So for example I enjoyed Rowdy a lot but I felt I couldn’t say anything here that wasn’t simply about pointing out the obvious. Before I saw BB I thought I’d just put up a paragraph on it. Even when writing this piece I thought I’d get done with a couple. But then in using an older Desai reference I felt I needed to flesh things out more. This doesn’t mean BB is AAA and throughout my piece makes clear what I think of this film. I am not even celebrating Abhishek’s performance the way many way. On the other hand I am arguing for Devgan in certain ways. I do nonetheless concede certain actors inspire me more than others. I for example tend to say something on every Aamir film. For a whole host of reasons. But I have never been in the business of ‘democracy’ on this score. Never ever felt I had a ‘duty’ to right on everything. But I actually do on what truly interests me for one reason or another. At a literal level I’ve said this before I enjoyed ATB and Singham a fair bit in each case and BB falls in that category. I am not saying anything otherwise. Admittedly I have not seen the Golmaal series. Most of the trailers scared me and I just don’t think enough of Devgan as a comic actor to check these out just for him. But I have seen all his dramatic recent parts. It’s all a question of contexts. I haven’t even bothered to see Ready and BG but I enjoyed Rowdy a lot. Now one could fairly argue that there isn’t a world of difference between the two or that Akshay is hardly a great actor or anything. But I don’t see it that way even if I agree with the larger point here. If akshay were in ready I’d maybe watch it too. But even with Akshay I’m not willing to watch HF. Maybe with a few other actors I might have. It all depends.

      Finally there’s an important point to be made here. I might write about Public Enemies (as I did once here) or Inception (as I also did) but not write about dozens of other interesting Hollywood films and far more interesting foreign works. There are lots of reasons here. But the same structure holds.

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  2. Thanks,Satyam for your views.
    I think it reinforces what my impressions from various reviews and promos have been.
    Sad again to note the reviewers have no idea what good acting is.
    It is really amusing to see some lapping up this performance of Abhishek as some thing great or different.He could do this in his sleep.

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  3. omrocky786 Says:

    Satyam you first two paragraphs about Amitabh Bachchan are a gem….to be included in your book ( of essays)…mazaa aa gaya …
    The actual review of the movie—hmmm it sounds like you are trying to do a fine balancing act of not annoying the Abhuishek fans and ( the fan in you ) and at the same time to not alienate the purists of good cinema…almost like you are afraid to admit how much ypou enjoyed the movie because of the potential backlash of 1. the purists and 2. the fans of SRK and KJO and Devgan and Akhsya kumars of the world….LOL!!

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    • Ha! No if I’d enjoyed it hugely I would have said so. It definitely entertained me throughout. Wasn’t bored anywhere but there were very many points where I felt more could have been done. And this isn’t just about some of the subtexts here (which shetty has himself introduced). Even at the literal plot level some other things could have happened or at least better handled. But otherwise a ‘backlash’ never worries me! Akshay fans won’t attack me currently anywhere because I have privileged Rowdy over all the other attempts other than Ghajini! But again if you asked me otherwise it’s a pretty crass film at many levels and again with essential twist here handled in very uneven fashion.

      Here’s also what I mean when you have someone like Abhishek doing something like BB. Though it’s very over the top at points and so on (incidentally that dance he does pre-interval is quite outstanding!) he never seems totally part of this world. This is a point I’ve made with reference to Bachchan before as well. When Bachchan and Govinda do similar comedy it isn’t just that Bachchan is supremely better at it but that he introduces a minimal self-reflexive angel to things. In other words he belongs to that world and yet doesn’t in a certain sense. He establishes a distance from it. Bachchan makes what he does ‘natural’. Govinda conforms to our sense of the ‘natural’ on that terrain. It’s a big difference. Abhishek in a similar sense even when he’s doing the Abbas bits that are in some cases so utterly over the top is also never completely part of that world the way say Devgan is. and because of this the ‘text’ of the film changes. This is often something people don’t understand. if you had Rajesh Khanna in Deewar (as Yash Chopra originally wanted to his everlasting shame!) he wouldn’t just be an inferior choice because Bachchan is literally light years better than him. It’s equally for the reason that with Bachchan the film becomes completely different. So it’s not that you have the same plot and lines and you throw in either a superior or lesser actor in which case the film is accordingly better or worse but it’s otherwise the same deal. Actually a film is completely altered with these casting choices. Similarly even in nothing films like BB these things still make a difference. Which is why though it might seem inconsistent to like Rowdy and not even watch Ready the choice of the star changes the film. Even if it’s someone like Akshay Kumar, otherwise not much of an actor. And the directors too often respond to this factor. It is because Abhishek was in the film that a whole Bachchan subtext was introduced that otherwise wouldn’t be there but also the whole twin majority/minority angle (assuming this was always part of the script) or the temple one acquires a certain potency precisely because those Bachchan archives are retriggered. Much as in a different way when Abhishek does Lallan you cannot help but think of certain things. Which is why Abhishek causes this terrible anxiety and why whether he’s successful or a failure certain possibilities must be kept foreclosed for him in much of the narrative. The successful film proves this as much as the failure. Because the latter is defined like an event while even a big one at the former end is treated with very restrained language even when the numbers are not lowered (as they frankly are with him). Because when hrithik is successful he is so only as hrithik, when Abhishek is successful he is so as himself but also as the heir to a signature. This double level exists with him which is precisely what causes the angst! Even with Ranbir whose father wasn’t exactly Rakesh Roshan there is no great Rishi Kapoor anxiety. There isn’t even a Kapoor one anymore as the family name just doesn’t mean what it did when Bachchan was at his peak. Today the only ‘royal’ industry household is Bachchan’s. Which is why the ‘succession’ such as it might always be potentially present must be denied. Again even an incompetent (accepting the shenanigans) ‘crown prince’ is still the crown prince. Others cannot occupy his place no matter how successful they are! A king can be deposed of course but Bachchan’s lasting relevance and the nation’s investment in him forecloses this possibility.

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  4. omrocky786 Says:

    I spoke to my elder sister who took my daughter to see the movie, per her- Amitabh bachchan still rocks and danced better than Devegan and Abhishek, 2. Abhishek acted very well as Abbas, 3. Devegan was very good 4. Prachi Desai looks very beaytiful and Asin looks very very bad, overall she liked it but nothing great….

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  5. ” I have really nothing to say about Vicky Donor Liked Kahani a lot but again I have no larger discussion to launch here.”

    This just about confirms everything about satyam.

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    • Rajenmaniar Says:

      One liitle piggy went to SS. One little piggy got slaughtered.

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    • It’s rather sad that whenever someone tries to have a meaningful discussion with Satyam where one disagrees with Satyam’s views, his comments or the ensuing ones are used as a hired gun to target Satyam or the other commentator. – this is one of the reasons why i tend to avoid such discussions with Satyam in which i have disagreements with him over some issues

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      • Saurabh, you absolutely shouldn’t. Ignore what others say. If one is having a discussion in good faith what others think or say doesn’t matter. Those who want to attack someone will do it irrespective of what the ‘evidence’ is. So you should disagree as often as you want. The others can keep making their lives more meaningful by continuing their activities.

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  6. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    I want to the seedy single screen theater near home thinking it will be easy to get tickets. Imagine my surprise when I see a HOUSEFULL board at the gate. I had to buy a Rs.80 ticket for Rs.200. i must be buying tickets in black after – what- say 10 years!

    Any way, back to the film. What a delight it was except for a bit towards the end when the action climax dragged somewhat. But that was made up by the oh-so-swet touch of the pendant withe fly-wing and the credit title fly dance.

    I was thinking of doing a post sometime back about how we Indians cannot do action comedy or action choreography the way the Chinese can – as glimpsed in films like Kungfu Hustle, Shaolin Soccer or all those Jackie Chan films. Well Eega removes that stigma somewhat. The gags are really inventive are executed well. I liked the steam bath sequence, the mummy like wrapping with the yellow quilt sequence, the putting those red granules in Sudeep’s drink and the boardroom slapping spree.

    AS I had mentioned in my last post, this is a lesson for those who think mass entertainers have to be brainless and tasteless. I mean a 5 year old can understand and appreciate it. But to write it needs some imagination and to execute it needs some grasp over the craft. Compare this to the moronic work in Ra One and you will know what I mean.

    Sudeep has a wonderful persona and he carries the film as the main villainous lead, Samantha has the kind of natural presence that you don’t see in mainstream Hindi films ( except maybe Asin in Ghajini) and of course the eega. Eeega, eega , eega. Teri jaan lega

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  7. will add this once more.. Abhishek’s dance pre-interval is an ABSOLUTE hoot! The highlight of the film. Takes a truly gifted actor to pull this off! On this score here he can truly be compared with some of his faher’s Lawaaris and Mahaan stuff.. the mere angne main of course and also the Mahaan song (har chori rani yahan). My only complaint here was that the editing was bit too frantic here, the moment might have been better served with less in this sense.

    Everyone’s familiar with the Lawaaris song but here’s Bachchan in the Mahaan number, utterly brilliant as always:

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    • Satyam leave the Mahaan number, even in Bombay To Goa (which alongwith Angoor and Chhoti Si Baat are my absolute fav bollywood comedies) Bachchan, dressed in that pink shirt, owned that song even though he is not even an average dancer. And same goes for ‘meri murgi ko rakhna sambhaal’ and ‘samundar mein nahake’. BTW Pukaar is another film of his which deserved better (though i wish it would not have had the miserable Randheer who was irritating even in Kasme Vaade- he was ok in Haath Ki Safai though)

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      • Bachchan was very jerky early on as a dancer, even in something as late as Kasme Vaade there is at least one song where he has this quality. However as with most other things he developed a certain individual style here which revolved mostly around his strong sense of rhythm.

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    • tonymontana Says:

      tha was funny.. he had a similar sequence in Dostana where he danced with Boman on Beedi Jalaile.. Lol

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    • AamirsFan Says:

      yeah like i mentioned in the other thread…that sequence along with the ‘maa sequence’ got the loudest laughs from the audience(from where i went to see it). i think abhishek’s comedy timing was amazing in the ‘maa’ sequence..for me that was the funniest part of the movie and the only time i really actually LOL.

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    • rockstar Says:

      actually they copied many things of his here :

      ajay style of speaking english(reminds alot of namak halal)

      abhishek does a medley on gayish thing(much like amitabh’s mere angne main)

      abbas ali was his first directtor(of saat hindustani) and his portrayl of muslim and communal harmony was staright away has desai’s cooli hangover)..infact one can count many things on finger but ya neither junior nor ajay is that original

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    • Brilliant connection here, Satyam — this song had completely escaped me when I was watching Bol Bachchan last night (aside: I never cease to be impressed by your ability to keep the man’s entire oeuvre in your mind at all times!), but I completely agree that this is a much closer affinity than More Angne Mein…

      …although, the moment that did remind me of Mahaan in recent times was the sequence of Piyush Mishra flogging himself in Wasseypur (as with the elder Amitabh in Mahaan, there is a sense of a family sundered, and of the patriarch letting the family down)….

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  8. Bhalo_Manush Says:

    “The great Manmohan Desai in his late period made films that unlike his earlier efforts were less coherent, integrated scripts and much more a series of gags revolving around a loosely focused narrative point. ”

    You have said it brilliantly in your first line itself. Manmohan Desi is the ONLY reason for the tortures we are getting in this generation. Sajid Khan and Rohit Shetty are the guys who have grown up watching these Desai films on 80’s and they know these are quite successful at the BO. They are just following the same path. But then we also need to give credit to them because they are the only ones who are able to do it successfully at the BO.

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  9. ‘The truth is abhishek has absolutely zero influence in the good opening of BB.. he should be thankful to ajay and rohit for giving some sort of relaunch..’
    Someone’s comment on another blog. Different blogs,different shades!

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  10. rockstar Says:

    which forum pfc?

    mtv sort of attack or ridule(more in your face trying to be cool with rant without any facts never have shades

    ajay is not fool as producer because he lacks slapstick comedy timing…who is the commercial actor fit enough to carry that today and ya even rejected players and offbeat dmd did 35 cr and they didn’t have that zero influence working

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    • Actually, it is from the ‘other’ forum and the commentator is a rather regular infestant here but wouldnt make a similar comment here!

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      • Dr shaurya Says:

        @rajen1.. that is interesting.. The mysterious world of blogs..
        people are roaming around in various faces…

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      • Rajen I also had the same confusion a guy who is mostly positive here on anything bachchan has from last couple of days turned negative on abhishek on NG. I asked him and it seems he mentioned there are 2 of the same name. Surprising but took his word.

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  11. Just saw it myself and I’ll say this – Rohit Shetty doesn’t deserve a reviewer like you!

    I largely echo your sentiments, though I probably give it less credit than you do. There are some nicely suggestive and engaging elements introduced throughout, particularly with respect to religion and an obvious love for masala tradition. But outside of introducing these pieces, Shetty does nothing. He doesn’t so much throw his hands in the air as he succumbs to his now typical brand of ADD — abandoning the deeper subtexts just as they start getting good, and instead getting down to the far more important business of tossing around cars and men like they’re marbles. There are shards of a better movie here (mainly from Mukherjee’s original template but also with respect to some of the underlying political charge that the script touches on) but these shards are basically never united. They are instead kept at bay by stretch after stretch of farcical set pieces.

    But ultimately I saw precisely the film I’d anticipated. One can’t expect Shetty to be Hirani (though I quietly imagined that Abhishek’s fun but utterly unimportant performance was really just a long audition for that vastly superior director) so I’ll end the quibbling here.

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    • And when I say Abhishek’s performance is unimportant, I obviously mean that in a relative sense. From a box office standpoint this should be a clean win for him. The audience I saw this film with was far more into it than I was. For some time now I’d thought that Abhishek needed this kind of role (if not precisely in this kind of film) to lighten things up a bit. The trick, at least on evidence of what I’d felt from the theater response, seems to have worked.

      And while on audience responses, the Barfii trailer attached to this got a palpable reaction.

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    • GF, while Satyam’s piece is excellent (do we need to say this!) i am more in agreement with your views and you know what i liked the film even less than you did(Abhi was the only reason to watch this). This line is the best summary of the film i have read- “He doesn’t so much as throw his hands in the air as he does succumb to his now typical brand of ADD, abandoning the deeper subtexts just as they start getting good, and instead getting down to the far more important business of tossing around cars”

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    • AamirsFan Says:

      “abandoning the deeper subtexts just as they start getting good, and instead getting down to the far more important business of tossing around cars and men like they’re marbles.”

      exactly what i felt about the movie. right on GF.

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    • “One can’t expect Shetty to be Hirani (though I quietly imagined that Abhishek’s fun but utterly unimportant performance was really just a long audition for that vastly superiordirector) so I’ll end the quibbling here.”- ROFL- so true- typical classy GF humour

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    • Interestingly when they had special screening in Bombay on Thu for the industry this was exactly the thought I had in mind when Hirani too offered his comments. My sense was that this is the only vote Abhishek needed to watch closely!

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    • Concise and on the money GF!

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  12. rockstar Says:

    talking about cars(in shett’s movie) they rave action and all in his films but they are so heavily dramatized infact sitting here for a distance one can see neither abhishek nor ajay had done those and thats laziness imo and ya most of his narrative infact in all his filmographies have been loose and bb is not an exception

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  13. When I praised Abhishek for BB, it was in a relative sense- i believe lot of OTT comedies are of such poor standard in bwood not only bcos they are badly scripted and directed but also badly acted- IMO today Abhishek is the only ‘star-actor’ who is fabulous in doing slapstick style of comedies (Govinda is unmatchable but he is past his prime- Dutt can also do it- Akki imo does not stand anywhere near Abhi unless it’s an ‘action-comedy’)- he, like his dad can do both slapstick and situational comedies (BnB)

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    • Bhalo_Manush Says:

      “Akki imo does not stand anywhere near Abhi unless it’s an ‘action-comedy’”

      This can only come from a hardcore Abhi fan. I am not a fan of Akshay kumar but right now he is the best along with Aamir in comedy….

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      • “This can only come from a hardcore Abhi fan”

        except that he isn’t one! There’s such a thing as people genuinely having different views. Not everything is about an agenda!

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      • Sorry to disappoint you but i am not at all an Abhishek fan and i incidentally have always liked Akshay more (was a fan of him during his ‘Mr. Bond’ and Taraazu days- not kidding)- but yes unlike the people of your ilk, i am not a ‘blind’ fan

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        • Bhalo_Manush Says:

          Lol…why every Abhishek fan claims in this forum that he is not an Abhi fan…Don’t feel ashamed of it..Don’t hide the truth after a statement like

          “Akki imo does not stand anywhere near Abhi unless it’s an action-comedy’”

          This kind of statement after watching Abhi’s performance in Bol Bachchan..lol..oh wait..u liked ‘Mr. Bond’ and Taraazu and Nishabd…that says it all..ok I agree u r not a fan of Abhishek…

          Like

        • Bhalo_Manush.. your levels of neutrality and impartiality are impossibly high bars that the rest of us mere mortals can never reach..

          Like

        • Bhalo_Manush Says:

          @Satyam..Thanks for those kind words

          Like

  14. rockstar Says:

    “The whole ‘play within a play’ structure is for instance a rather inspired one throughout the narrative. Early on in the film the ragtap theatrical outfit which apparently takes all its cues from cinema is seen performing the original Golmaal. In the film’s parodic revelation moment this entire Hamlet trope comes more explicitly to the fore, necessarily by way of its most significant Bombay cinema manifestation. The latter especially involves a hilarious turning of the tables on social, class and gender lines. The reincarnation allusion seems only fitting in a film where Amitabh Bachchan is the presiding spirit. Contrary to what his always welcome presence indicates in the title track this film is very much about the ghosts of his history. Additionally Shetty laces the Golmaal framing device with a larger context of his own. In this reverse migration from the urban capital to the rural heartland a potent religious site becomes the ‘obstacle’ that truly sets things in motion”

    huh satyam its not flattery or anything but a genuine praise ….you are a remarkable writer and indeed one of the best i have ever seen ….never imagined that sub layer withing a layer

    Like

    • thanks so much Rockstar..

      Like

    • rockstar Says:

      wheather i like the movie or not but such a comprehensive reading of why that golmal play was there in the movie imitating golmal….why ajay’s dead gf reincarnation(with same face) and finally the climax again played by sub characters imitating original one in movie and the point interlinking them can come only from a student of cinema

      really have only seen bhadwaj rangan got more insighful than this ….

      really you are gifted

      Like

  15. Alex adams Says:

    Hmmm
    So there seems a Bol bachchan party goin on here 🙂
    Congrats Satyam !!!
    Where’s the champagne and the song n dance…
    Think one feels relieved for abhishrek
    When every other two or three bit ‘actor’ is scoring hits and getting praised for ‘meltdowns’ at dinner tables etc, it was high time, this happened to abhishrek
    So Satyam : what’s your prediction for first weekend, week and lifetime gross…

    Like

    • I’m more relieved for Abhishek than anything else Alex. For a few reasons. I never had any doubts he could get important success in the right film. He proved this in the 2005-2007 period from BnB to Guru. Nor am I surprised that he’s getting great praise because of course he always did in certain kinds of films even in his weak period (dostana for example). yes I didn’t quite expect this level of praise for this kind of part but this doesn’t cheer me up for the larger problems it suggests. Since I never had doubts about Abhishek in any sense there was nothing to ‘discover’ here. But yes and as I’ve said over the last two days in extended comments there is much to rue here in terms of the reception. Precisely because of the bankruptcy implied at various levels. And so contrary to what you’ve said for me the means are more important than the destination. Because I’m not interested in just any destination! In other words if Abhishek has five Bol Bachchans in a row the industry would worship him but I’d be terribly disappointed! And if I had a different view it would be rather cynical and hypocritical on my part to criticize various kinds of films other actors did. You want the good actor to also do good films and not reduce himself to say Ready level! For me ultimately this is a ‘wait and watch’ period. I hope he can get back to a good balance but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was never the Abhishek again who made certain kinds of choices in concentrated fashion. Not the best strategy in a pragmatic sense but the story on many of those films is by no means done. Whereas 99% of these 100 crore grossers don’t even survive beyond a couple of weeks in terms of leaving any residue with the audience.

      On the box office since most have settled on a 12 crore day 1 number (which I think is a bit low) I’d expect the same source to have Sat at 14 crores give or take. Sun should then show a bigger jump. We might be looking at 42 crores or something for the weekend just following the 12 crore baseline. Of course if Sun is something unusually big that’s another thing but one can’t reasonably expect this looking at most other such films. Week 1 could be anywhere from low to high 60s depending on how well it holds up during the week. I expect better than usual trending here (how much better is always hard to tell though WOM here seems stronger than with most of those other 100 crore grossers) but I believe 100 crores is a done deal here.

      Like

      • Yes, the movie seems to be heading towards the 100 cr Mark.

        Congrats to Abhishek and Ajay-Rohit Combo… If the movie was accepted(which it has been, i had a feeling Abhishek will be the one getting more praise, though Ajay would be rock solid in his tweaked Singham Image, because always saw Abhi as more of a natural especially in comedies)Hopefully Abhishek can build upon the momentum here…

        Like

        • I’ve been a bit alone here even as not much of a Devgan fan in that I found him very endearing here. Admittedly it’s the same kind of note in every scene from him but many of his English lines worked much better than I expected from the previews. But it’s true that comedy, specially of the over the top kind requires great animation.

          Like

  16. Khilari Says:

    I have to say that I was most impressed with abhishek bachchan’s performance in the movie. Abbas avatar was too much fun 🙂 I came to this blog to congratulate the people who always believed in junior b.

    Like

  17. Satyam- “Finally, and perhaps repetitively, it would be hard to dislike Bol Bachchan even if one did not succumb entirely to it but from my perspective it is that greater film that might have been, the loss of which must be rued.”- LOL this last comment actually took away a lot of sheen from this otherwise splendid piece.Actually it’s quite the opposite-there is hardly anything to be liked here save Abhishek’s act (and Krushna is intermittently funny) and some mildly funny scenes like the Hamlet trope

    Like

  18. Dr shaurya Says:

    @ Satyam..

    Came across this interesting tweet.. so thought of sharing it on the blog.. I think it explains the response movie is receiving..

    ADR ‏@DreamrDeceiver
    @wickedJuliet My sis all the way from UK woke me up in the middle of the night just to tell my mom that bol bachchan was awesome.

    Like

  19. Alex adams Says:

    The return of the bachchan !
    Well, all these discussions and minutiae on who gets more credit and is bigger draw will go on and can go on ad nauseum…
    But the key outcome from Bol Bachchan is that the declining brand bachchan should get a shot in the arm !!
    No two ways bout it and it better happened for Bollywood in general!
    sometimes the exact ‘route’ is not important but the ‘destination’.
    As far as I’m concerned: this will serve as a necessary job to be done and now hopefully abhishrek should be back on track !
    The crucial thing now is the projects he signs and more importantly the ones he rejects
    Hope he has learnt something this time to be more careful (for the sake of amitabh)

    Like

    • Brandnames decline.. authentic signatures survive even in defeat as a haunting…

      Like

      • Alex adams Says:

        All that is fine but must say that amitabh (& ash lol) will be a happy man today and that’s what I like about this success most
        Ps: must say it does appear that abhishrek and ash daughter has done something no director could do for abhishrek …
        He now needs to ensure he doesn’t lose the ‘momentum’
        I mean, in films not in producing babies 😉

        Like

  20. Alex adams Says:

    The ‘lure’ & ‘temptation’ of the ‘camera in hand’ !!
    Haven’t seen the film, but think credit is also due to rohit shetty who has delivered another hit -think now its the third or fourth in a row??
    Now, it’s v easy to negate this as ‘low brow’ , ‘crass’ and catering to the lowest common denominator and so on
    But wake up any commercial film maker @ nightm place a gun on his/ her forehead and they will admit that box office is what actually occupies their thoughts, dreams (& nightmares) …
    All the rest is bonus…beyond a point.
    Rohit shetty seems to have kept a stable head on his shoulders, stuck to his task humbly and without ego and importantly NOT got affected by the lure and temptations of the ‘camera in hand’
    Ps: talking from personal experience
    Even while making humble ‘short films’/home videos, one suddenly starts getting flight of ideas and delusions of being the next Fellini or the buddy of Kurosawa..
    Mental discipline is a rare feat to achieve even in this genre and class of movie ….

    Like

  21. Satyam, this 1 line of yours is better than your piece- “In other words he belongs to that world and yet doesn’t in a certain sense. He establishes a distance from it.”- awesome stuff!Do you and GF ever think how unfair it is on the likes of Taran and Nahta that their long non-sensical reviews are bettered by a mere line or two from both of u (and Q and Abzee) LOL.Will also say this that unlike Abhi,Bachchan was never scared to go extremely ‘over the top’ when required.Abhi seems to hold himself back a bit

    Like

  22. Alex adams Says:

    Ability to scale up /down in interactioms and performances !
    There is this mention of abhishreks ‘holding back’ which is true.
    Think this ‘holding back’ needs to be done away with ESP when dealing with Bollywood commercial setups atleast in some genres.
    A performer (infact anyone IMO) needs to learn to calibrate the pitch and scale of his game according to the folks one is interacting with/ catering to…
    Some don’t have this ‘leeway’, some develop intertia while others are just too snobbish or self obsessed to understand the importance of this.
    In Bollywood terms for eg, this is what differentiates an amitabh bachchan from many other one (or two or three) trick (competent) ponies….
    The same in real life, I guess..

    Like

  23. Alex adams Says:

    Talkin of abhishrek bachchan
    Confidence and momentum is an imp and underrated thing
    In dhoom 3, given an apt, half decent role, think aamir may have a job at hand coping with him
    The other thing is that aamir isn’t really Hritik in terms of physicality and some obvious strengths in THIS sort of genre that dhoom 3 will be….
    Will be interesting match up IF abhishrek is given a haf decent rile to play with in dhoom 3…

    Like

  24. Bhalo_Manush Says:

    @Satyam..

    I couldn’t go through ur complete review but i am sure it must be great as everybody is saying here..but i have just one question to ask..

    Did u seriously like Abhishek’s dance sequence as Abbas and as per ur earlier post here is is comparable to Amitabh’s perf in song from the movie Mahhan?? A simple yes or no will be more helpful here…

    Because in my opinion that was one of the most cringe worthy scenes in bollywood history…but that’s just my opinion.

    I am trying to see this sequence in comparison to monkey slapping scenes in Houseful..

    Like

    • “Because in my opinion that was one of the most cringe worthy scenes in bollywood history”

      What are you referring to here? Bol Bachchan or Mahaan or Lawaaris. I must admit I don’t have much taste for the mere angne song myself. Have never quite been a fan of drag anywhere (Bachchan does handle it with aplomb though). But I do find the Maahan song brilliant and the Bol Bachchan moment is actually closer to this than Mere Angne mein.

      Like

      • Bhalo_Manush Says:

        I was referring to Bol bachchan scene here…

        “But I do find the Maahan song brilliant and the Bol Bachchan moment is actually closer to this”

        Ok this answers my question..

        Like

        • where did you see the Bol Bachchan sequence? I thought you were not going to watch the film?

          By the way when I say it’s like Mahaan I don’t mean situationally but in terms of the kind of act Bachchan does there. Of course he remains unsurpassable.

          Like

  25. I’ll say this, and it’s a bit of an obvious (if errant) hope: even if this film turns into some kind of box office colossus, I hope Abhishek doesn’t stop doing the D6s, the Raavans and the DMDs. Because the success of this film has a lot to do with what people want out of a star capable of fitting into a certain mold. Which means it’s also a success that other stars are fully capable of. If Salman or Akshay were in this instead of Abhishek, I’m certain the success would be the same if not greater – even if the resulting film would lose the “Bachchanism” that drives the subtext. And in a sense Alex is actually right in suggesting that Amitabh Bachchan has more to celebrate with the success of this film than anyone because it really is a monument to his titanic signature – even if it’s in my opinion a deeply flawed monument.

    The point is, the success of this film doesn’t give Abhishek anything more than some much-needed steam. But the problem with steam is that while it can get you going, it’s also just a lot of hot air unless you’re headed somewhere. The narrative Abhishek has built for himself up to this point may have suggested serious box-office vulnerability, but it’s also been more interesting, more vital, than the most successful of his peers.

    Like

  26. Alex adams Says:

    Well agree with most points there
    But let’s not underestimate what this success has done to abhishrek
    A) it’s his BIGGEST opener/ hit EVER -period
    B) it’s brought him back to the reckoning -no doubts
    C) it’s not even that it’s a success and the credit goes to Hritik /devgun (as in dhoom2)
    Even without seeing the film, it’s obvious who’s getting the real credit and THAT’S important
    D) I guess it’s all about the right mix
    And even if he does try a D6 /Raaavan sort of project, it has to be suitably ‘cushioned’ and don’t think there’s anything apologetic about it at least for the next few movies…
    E) a really capable star/actor doesn’t really have to go all the way to Raaavan to display that range…
    And his dads the best example…

    Like

    • Rajenmaniar Says:

      For once,cannot disagree with Alex.

      Like

    • Alex, ‘his dad’ will tell u that he was extremely unlucky that he never got a project like Raavan. And the maker of Raavan will tell u that he is even more unlucky that he never worked in an age which belonged to the greatest actor to have set foot on this planet- Rathnam imo would have dreamt of working with AB on something like Raavan

      Like

      • Alex adams Says:

        “his dad’ will tell u that he was extremely unlucky that he never got a project like Raavan”
        Well, bachchan will ‘tell’ a lot of these things in public and in this case even may mean it but the reality is that amitabh bachchan is above many Raaavans and beyond….
        The fact that makers recently haven’t been able to capture his transcendence is not really amitabhs fault but that of those makers….

        Like

    • His dad is the only example.

      Like

    • alexji adamsji looking at this i guess there is a fan hidden in you. is it? lol

      Like

      • alex adams Says:

        ha: fan of whom, dan?

        Like

        • of abhishek whom you lovingly call abhshrek. I follow this blog have seen you severely criticizing abhishek but today it looks like more than satyam you are relieved

          Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          Well picked dan
          That’s my mystery n mystique …and enigma lol
          btw I’m nobody’s fan in the technical sense of the word (except of my own 😉

          Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          Btw dan : u sound a bit familiar
          What’s the other name u comment with 😉
          And who are your favourite actors /actresses…

          Like

        • The greatest devotees are also the ones who feel most ‘jilted’!

          Like

    • hahaha that was well said alexji but i got a question like dhoom 3 is expected to release in diwali 13′(i belive) in between he has not signed anything i just wonder what he does next. i hope he doesnt do happy new year and may be should not work with rgv. what do you think what he will work on apart from dhoom 3

      Like

      • Alex adams Says:

        Single point advice–
        Don’t go near rgv or any such for next two years …
        And sit @ home unless something damn massy /sure shot box office hit comes up till dhoom 3….eg a south remake like rowdy rathore or ready types …

        Like

    • mostly fair points.. I still think that D6/Raavan aren’t the problem. To put it another way one should never say no to Rathnam and almost never to Mehra and some others. Ultimately these failures became big problems for him because of his patchy record elsewhere. Had he done a better mix (he was unlucky in some ways) just these two failures no matter how important wouldn’t have been calamitous.

      Like

  27. Alex adams Says:

    I will go one step further
    If abhishrek is actually amitabhs son—–
    Absijrek should work damn hard at dhoom 3-work out et al and ensure hes got a decent role and
    Bloody give aamir a run for his money in dhoom 3!!!!
    This should be his revenge on the dhoom2 fiasco…
    Also work with the single minded focus of getting box office hits atleast for the next 2-3 films –the rest will take care of itself
    All this prestige/quality then follows …..(obviously talent should be there but atleast ones in the game to play it ones way)

    Like

    • I am very confident there won’t be a repeat of D2 here. Having said that it is again true that it’s not just about footage. It’s much harder to make a similar impact even with the same footage if one star has the actress, the gimmicks of the villain and so forth. Abhishek still has the one advantage over Aamir of being more relaxed for this terrain but his cop is also a much more restrained guy here. In any case Abhishek is solely working on this film till its release. Don’t think he’ll be taking this less than seriously. But the villain does seem to have all the ‘angles’ here. Finally, Aamir’s involvement here and his personal equation with Abhishek implies both a good script and one with better balance.

      Like

      • AamirsFan Says:

        history says when others work with Aamir…the other actor/actors usually shine equally, if not brighter. ajay devgn in Ishq, sallu bhai in AAA, the cast in lagaan, akshaye khanna and saif ali khan in DCH, toby stephens in MP, the cast in RDB, the cast in 3 idiots all are examples of them either out performing Aamir or equally shining with Aamir.

        i think in this case, Aamir’s character has the advantage because he is a villian(much like Abhishek’s character in BB, ‘gimmick’ as satyam bhai puts it) but i would think both actors will shine equally. i must confess though, abhishek in both films with hrithik seems like he has sleepwalked through the movie(MPKH and D2).

        Like

  28. On that note here is something important- We often say that Abhishek alongwith Aamir has done the most risky films. But actually Abhi scores over Aamir here. Why? Because Aamir started doing such ‘different cinema’ only after a decade or so (except Raakh) when he had consolidated his BO position. Abhishek on the other did these offbeat films in a very early stage of his career. Only other actor here who is comparable is Matt Damon, who when at his BO peak with Bourne Ultimatum,went “completely ‘different’

    Like

    • Rajenmaniar Says:

      Samir actually takes VERY calculated risks.

      Like

    • AamirsFan Says:

      to be fair…abhishek started doing these ‘risky’ films only after he had his own success so that enabled him to do off beat projects. Aamir has had a history of ‘going against the grain’ with(like you mentioned) Raakh, Earth, Lagaan, MP, and now more recently TZP and DG.

      Like

      • AamirsFan Says:

        Lagaan and TZP were calculated risks, so were Ghajini and 3 idiots. Earth, Raakh, DG, MP are just out and out major risks for an actor to do at his peak.

        Like

  29. Alex adams Says:

    Btw have a certain weakness for these ‘back from the dead’ deals.
    Abhishrek in Bol bachchan seems to be that !
    Well, the momentum this creates can’t be underestimated…
    I’m now looking forward to the dhoom 3 ‘matchup’.
    Earlier the word ‘matchup’ was a misnomer…
    With certain advantages in hieght, physicality and voice suddenly can see abhishrek creating problems for aamir-& I’m not being premature here…

    Like

  30. Damon’s big moment (BnB/Guru) came with Bourne Identity – now look at his films after this (1) Commercial ones- 2 Bourne and 2 Oceans, We Bought a Zoo (2) Complete ‘art films’- Gerry (note this ‘bizarre’ film was his next after Identity), Syriana, The Good Shepherd, The Informant, Hereafter, Margaret (3) Middle cinema kinds- Stuck On You, Greenzone, the departed, the brothers grimm, adjustment bureau, True Grit, Contagion, Invictus- Among his contemporaries, no one has dared to take so much risk as Damon

    Like

  31. This is even better- After his Oscar winning breakthrough film “Good Will Hunting” check out Damon’s films till his star-making turned in Bourne Identity- 1) Commercial ones- Oceans 11, Rounders, Saving Private Ryan (2)offbeat ones- The Rainmaker (incidentally his next after Good Will), Dogma, All The Pretty Horses, Legend of Bagger Vance, Talented Mr. Ripley

    Like

  32. Cannot compare Damon to Abhishek at all. Damon’s career has always been on the up and up ever since his debut and he is universally liked and has worked with all the talented directors out there. Give me a break. And there is nothing “middle” about films like Departed, Contagion etc. these are out and out commercial films. Abhi had a golden period followed by a huge rut through which looks like he is coming out now. He has worked with a lot of talented folks, he has that in common.

    Like

    • Hey, you are getting me all wrong. what i meant here was like Abhishek when Damon reached his BO peak like Abhishek, he decided to give it away by not just doing offbeat/different films but by doing films which can be called as ‘festival stuff’- these films are never going to work commercially

      Like

      • I beg to disagree. Your analysis is pretty simplistic and looked at through the Bollywood lens. Matt Damon suddenly didn’t go ” different” as you are suggesting. He has always been involved in ” prestige” projects right from the beginning. You are suggesting Gerry was a risk, well it was directed by Gus Van Sant who will keep getting work in Hollywood. For Good Shepherd he worked with De Niro, Brothers Grimm was Terry Gilliam, True Grit were the Coen Brothers, Informant was Soderbergh I believe and Invictus was Clint Eastwood. The list goes on and on. This is a A list of directors in Hollywood. This is what most actors die for. By doing this he is not necessarily taking huge risks, Do you think Mark Raffalo needed Avengers to keep his head above water. According to you then Shia leboof is the hottest property in Hollywood because his Transformer movies keep raking in millions of dollars. Are you seeing where I am going with this?

        Like

        • Damon is enacting the role of Whitey Bulger in his next movie. Whitey is the famous Boston gangster enacted by Nicholson in Departed. This is going to be directed by Ben Affleck who I think should have at least got a nomination for best director for The Town, you will say he is taking a risk; nothing would be further from the truth. Half of Hollywood would do this role in a heart beat.

          Like

        • Dude, sadly that film is not being made as of now(in any case that film was planned much before Affleck’s directorial debut Gone Baby Gone)- I keep a track of his projects more than you. His next is a sci-fi film Elysium. But after that he is working with Van Sant for Promised Land- another offbeat project. And finally with Soderbergh on Behind The Candelabra, which the studios considered to be of such a low commercial value, that it would not be released it a theatrically but as a TV HBO film

          Like

        • And in case you don’t know Ben Affleck is Damon’s cousin and one of his closes friends. They scripted Good Will Hunting together.So it was not that Damon wanted to work with him suddenly after Affleck became hot after The Town. Btw with Van Sant, Damon could have again gone for a popular film like Good Will but what does he do- he combines for a sure-shot B.O. poison like Gerry- When Soderbergh, for the 1st time decides to cast him as a solo lead, he does not even make an Out Of Sight but The Informant

          Like

        • I know they are all A-list directors but what’s that got to do with ‘offbeat’ films- man, u r confusing the 2. In Hollywood A-list directors too make ‘different’ films as you can see for yourself. Also something is interesting here that these directors go completely offbeat when Damon is involved- So when Van Sant worked next with Damon, he made Gerry and not Milk. Eastwood makes a Hereafter with him and not a film on a more popular subject like Edgar.

          Like

        • You still haven’t convinced me, and no I am rarely confused about anything. We could be going at this for ever, unfortunately I don’t have the time for it. And yeah following the career path of actors is not my full time job, you should keep at it though. Helps in arguing on blogs like these, just don’t confuse it with analysis.

          Like

        • Actually you are right we are going circles here and since you had ‘dismissed’ my 1st comment on the topic and are not going to try and understand my point, it’s better that we end this before the debate turns ugly (and i sincerely believe that i can otherwise learn a lot from your comments)- Finally i will say this- I only compared Abhi to Damon bcos “IMO” after reaching a BO position of strength, both of them not only just did off-beat films but films which were truly potential ‘box-office poison”

          Like

  33. I would argue Decaprio has taken equal amount of risk.

    Like

    • AamirsFan Says:

      ill add in Johnny Depp as taking major risks/off beat stuff while at his peak.

      Like

      • AF, i knew a smart guy like u will remember abt Depp but i had already thought abt it. You see my point was who did the maximum offbeat project ‘once he reached his best box-office position/became a star’- Depp is a guy who used to do the most ‘bizarre films’ before he became big with Pirates- and after that he has ‘only’ done commercial films-even when it’s a Burton film it’s not Ed Wood but Alice- his truly ‘diiferent’ films since then r- Rum Diary,Finding Neverland,Libertine,imaginarium of dr. parnassus

        Like

        • I am not trying to dismiss your comments at all. Damon has done these kinds of roles even before he gained box office stature with the Bourne films as you are suggesting. The point I am trying to make is that huge commercial success is not necessarily the key to longevity in the industry. If you want to keep getting work for 2 decades this is the deal. Why would Christopher Waltz do a movie like Carnage? Because its directed by Roman Polanski. And when you compare Edgar to Hereafter in terms of commercial viability, you are splitting hairs.

          Like

        • I refer you back to the Shia Leboof comparison.

          Like

    • No, while Dicaprio has done ‘other stuff’ it is much less in number compared to Damon- Also his risk-taking has been greatly reduced in the last decade or so. And now this is the most important thing that when Dicaprio goes ‘different’, he does a ‘Beach’, when Damon goes different he does a ‘Gerry/Informant/Hereafter’- so while Dicaprio ‘used to’ (in the past) take genuine risks, even then he never did ‘art/festival films’. A stuff like Gerry cannot work in any industry in the world

      Like

    • “in case you don’t know know Damon and Ben Affleck are cousins”
      What, did you just google this? Not only are you a hack but a really bad one at that.

      Like

      • Not sure why do you need to get so agitated and make unnecessary comments about me (i had actually thought that you might not be knowing abt Damon and Affleck bros)- in any case since you don’t particularly like me/my comments, i guess it’s best if we don’t indulge in a conversation any further.

        Like

  34. As long as Damon is similar to Abhishek in terms of the variety of projects, well that’s probably true.

    Like

  35. omrocky786 Says:

    Just came back from the movie..was a Housefull , people were sitting on the side steps …..everyone enjoyed it, we were a party of 10 with various ages and every single one of them enjoyed and everyone clearly were laughing at Devegan’s lines the most….he is clearly getting the maximunm applauses but no one is saying that Abhishek was bad ( which is a good sign )……overall picture HIT hai …..
    I am no complan boy and ypu need to pest control yourselves laughing out loud, however it is not everyone’s cup of Lasssi !!!!!

    Like

    • glad to hear about your experience Rocky.. this will have strong numbers worldwide.. Taran has already mentioned some of the overseas numbers but I saw a strong attendance at my suburban screen as well.

      Like

    • omrocky786 Says:

      the next show was sold out too,…the movie had a thank you to Aamir khan which I coukld not undersatnd why ( may be for dk bose),,,,the trailer of ETT looked so much better on the big screen and shirin farhad looks like a laugh riot…….
      Aside – did you notice FFilms- for ADF ? LOL!!

      Like

      • I ssssure did.

        Like

      • omrocky786 Says:

        LOL GF…

        Like

      • actually I was thinking about the very same thing myself regarding Aamir!

        And yeah noticed ‘ffilms’.. thought what the ff…!

        Like

        • AamirsFan Says:

          i got excited that he might do a cameo or something lol. but i guess it indeed was because of using the ‘dk bose’ song. i’m sure rohit shetty went to aamir and asked permission to use that song(knowing how anal Aamir can be about his product usage).

          Like

        • omrocky786 Says:

          The source added, “The copyright of the songs are usually held by music companies from which permission is taken before they are used. Otherwise there is a copyright infringement issue. For every song utilised, a royalty has to be given to them. But in Aamir’s case as the rights are with him, the royalty goes to him.”

          Rohit Shetty and Ajay Devgn were happy that Aamir Khan willingly gave the right to use the song and refused to accept any royalty for it. The film’s spokesperson confirmed that Aamir Khan did not charge anything and the makers are thankful to him.

          http://movies.ndtv.com/movie_story.aspx?keyword=bollywood&ID=ENTEN20120208809&subcatg=MOVIESINDIA&nid=241040

          Like

        • so that explains the ‘thank you’ at the beginning..

          Like

      • omrocky786 Says:

        a few couple of observations/ highlights-
        1.the scene where Archana Puran singh almost does a salaam before correcting herself was brilliantly done..
        2.Neeraj Vohra was kind of reliving his Chako jee role from daud.
        3.the Roza to Rozaana Upwaas was brilliant..
        4.The play at the end reminded me more of the khoobsoorat ( at the roof top) sequence rather than the Karz sequence..
        5. Amitabh Bachchan’s line whre he says – Hum iss picture mein hain nahee lekin hamar naam hai..I felt like saying – Sirf Naam hee kaafee hai aapka..LOL
        6.The unlocking of the Temple with the saying that now it can not be locked again and Pooja has to be performed every day had an uncanny resemblance to Ayodhya temple…

        Like

  36. yu cant watch this movie on a weekend, only latenite shows have tickets…the rest hv been advanced book.i dnt care if its gud news for the director or the producer…but its a piece of bad news for me.
    hv to wait till monday….

    wud rather download it n watch.

    Like

  37. There’s a scene in BB where Abhishek starts reciting the titles of his father’s films as he starts building up a fictitious ‘ancestry’ for himself and his brother. This moment is a classic example of Rohit Shetty’s mode where the instant gag is everything. However it must also be said (and this is something I’ve observed for a number of years with some regret) that in many ways Bachchan’s peak cinema also survives today in similar fashion which is to say shorn of its political stakes but also as Bachchan-lite if you will. Yes the films are perennially relevant but not surprisingly the 80s one man industry is far more important for most multiplex audiences today than the seminal scripts of the 70s. People know those also, they know many of the lines and so on but the thing is that something like ‘mere paas maa hai’ to ‘English is a phunny language’ it all exists on the very same plane. Everything that I define as ‘weaker’ Bachchan has become more important or ‘stronger’ Bachchan is read in weaker ways. This is hardly surprising. Certainly with the same upwardly mobile urban audiences ‘revolution’ is not on the agenda in any sense! But also at a more literal level some of those dramas from the 70s are a bit too serious and intense for people who otherwise consider the average Akshay comedy or the Yashraj jaunt through Europe perfectly acceptable and even the most desirable sort of entertainment. so again these are iconic classics, always replayed on TV and so on but Bachchan is in many ways a museum of his greatest ‘hits’ which does not necessarily mean ‘films’ in their entirety. Of course this very problem is from another perspective a sign of his enduring appeal but I bring it up here as an example of how what can justly be criticized as Rohit Shetty’s superficial approach to the Bachchan canon (though he clearly has genuine affection for it) might be consonant with the impulses of certainly his multiplex audiences.

    Like

  38. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    “Abhishek on the other did these offbeat films in a very early stage of his career. Only other actor here who is comparable is Matt Damon, who when at his BO peak with Bourne Ultimatum,went “completely ‘different’”

    How easily people forget Ranbir Kapoor! Saawariya, Bachna Ae Hasenon, Wake Up Sid, Ajab Prem Ki Gajab Kahani, Rajneeti, Anjan Anjani, Rockstar, Barfi

    First 10 films of ABjr : Refugee, Tera Jadoo Chal Gya, Dhai akshar Prem Ke, Bas Itna Sa Khwab Hai, Desh, Han Maine Bhi Pyar Kiya, Om Jai Jagdish, Main Prem Ki Deewani Hoon,

    You can see who has shown more gumtion to experiment. And dont let anyone tell me Ranbir comes from a film family and his father was a big star!!!

    Like

  39. rockstar Says:

    bhansali,yrf,kjo production,raj kumar santoshi,prakash jha, imtiaz, without any body of work and still not that impactful and other mere struggler

    Like

  40. rockstar Says:

    with that body of work( and for some its risk) and director at helm one suddenly should have more impactful…actualyn no other debutants in indian cinema has this sort of thing on platter….no khan , bachchan, hrithik ,kumar or anyone

    Like

  41. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    Not impactful? Last year he won every single Best actor Award for Hindi films on the planet. He is on every director’s wish list..from anurag Kshayp to Zoya Akhtar to Milan Luthria. Every single performance of his has contributed to the success of the film. And all thsi within the first 8 films . Look at the first 8 films of ABjr and you will se how pathetic that is in comparison.

    On a plattter? Why are the industrywalls so generous? could it be, could there be that small chance, that he earned it? By his talent, commitment and intelligence?

    Like

    • rockstar Says:

      without body of work

      ok ranbir is the greatest thing to have happened to bollywood lol

      do watch doors(1991 and heavy inspiration for rockstar) a movie on robinson and even his father’s heer ranjha(on same lovrer’s anger) to know how moch he has to learn and what flaws he has as rockstar…a rather strong cominc timing and intensity is another but ya kid has time to learn

      and ya big banner on platter and may not always be there(everything has to be milked) in and tough times are bound to come…..

      Like

  42. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    The only other actor from the post-Khans generation to have had a bigger impact is Hritik. He too deserves credit for combing talent and intelligence with the right career strategy.

    Like

  43. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    Let’s compare Ranbir to his contemporaries from Bollywood. I don’t think there is any other actor including the Khans who has this kid of range within his first 8 films. If you have to bring in Kamal, or Sanjeev Kumar or Atkinson for comoarison that itself speaks volumes about the new kid’s talent. Just sample this from APKGK anyway. Have fun.

    Like

    • rockstar Says:

      coming from a guy who is bringing eega and rk filmograpy in bb thread and accusing other s of bringing other xyz don’t sound right

      and ya just like golmal was refrence was bb for silent movies two biggest benchwark are koshish (on deaf and mute theme) and pushpak (for being a benchmark for silence stuff) and ya just when an artist win Oscar(another silent movie) last year I can see barfi being another wannabe desperate to catch trend of being coming of age

      none of his contemporaries worked with established names so early without body of work and its a fact

      and ya its neither ab jr nor hr and not even ranbir who has the best range from start it was vivek oberoi who stood upto mohanlal and ajay in company and even had decent outing in romantic saathiya

      btw choclaty role(with some common man stuff) is not complete versatility …..comic timing, intense stuff , broodness and even larger than life ,action erc contributes to it

      kid has to learn and has time

      Like

      • rockstar Says:

        and ya i mean anurag basu here not rk

        did the same with kites and copied apartment shamelesssly scene by scene in life in metro

        Like

  44. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    I don’t see how having Ajay Devgan and Mohanlal for company and doing one romantic film ( which eveey hindi film hero has to do) shows vivek Oberoi’s versatility?

    Ranabir and done more much more than just chocolaty and common man stuff:

    Saawariya: Fantasy hero of musical romance
    BEH: Romantic hero
    Wake Up Sid: Realistic urban young man in coming of age drama
    APKGK: Slapstick and situational comedy
    Rocket Singh;’ Deglamourized everyman character without songs or romance
    Rajneeti: Brooding, silent hero of polticla drama.
    Rockstar: Intense tragic hero in the Devdas mould, witha rockstar persona
    Barfi: Deaf mute chracter in the comic-romantic mode

    Show me who has been this versatile in one’s first 8 films.

    Like

    • Utkal Sir definitely has a valid point here. And comparing Mr. Bean to Ranbir is akin to insulting Ranbir. But one more thing is important- except Rocket Singh Ranbir has not done ‘different’ films to an extent where they become ‘potential boc-office poisons’ unlike Abhishek- Abhi has taken too big risks and quite a few of them- whether it was Naach, D6, KHJJS and Yuva- these are really ‘different’ films

      Like

      • Some risks are more ‘calculated’ as Rajen said earlier. However it is also true that sometimes this is unknowable at the outset. Many of Aamir’s films were genuine risks. Over time though what one realizes is that Aamir knows how to extract the commercially acceptable script even on risky terrain. This is a great instinct to have and obvious Aamir has been uncanny at it. However the other side of having such a mind is that Aamir doesn’t do MP very often. which is to say he’s the kind of person who thinks long and hard about MP and what went wrong with it and so on and then avoids that mistake. Not that I’m blaming him by any means but such a path necessitates not taking risks that cannot be justified in a box office sense. The consequence here is that Aamir is not likely to do a Kaagaz ke Phool! In more contemporary terms this means that irrespective of how important the director Aamir wouldn’t sign on to just anything. he wouldn’t have done D6 as it stands. This is hardly to minimize anything he’s done because the importance of presenting a model that works cannot be underestimated. This is what brings about structural change. Other actors might be willing to take risks if they feel there’s a payoff. Not otherwise.

        Abhishek on the other hand has taken some radical risks. Even if this didn’t seem so when he signed off on the films in many cases retrospectively we can see how risky the films were. And even more importantly than one or the other risk it was about the sequence in many cases. So for example if you’ve just had Raavan who thinks that a Gowariker film on an obscure freedom fighter is a good idea?! But with this instinct you can sometimes arrive at a truly great film. It will work in the present if you’re extremely lucky but more likely you will have a body of work, some of which will get resurrected over time.

        On Ranbir I don’t see anything special in his choices so far. Yes he is attempting versatility, no denying this. But the choices are all relatively safe ones. Which is to say designed to get him either a measure of box office success and/or good reviews. He’s chosen his projects smartly. Again there’s nothing wrong with this. But it’s not quite the portrait Utkal has been painting. For example if a newcomer gets to work with Bhansali in his first film post-HDDCS, Devdas, Black and he doesn’t take it he needs his head examined! Barfi is exactly the sort of -heart-warming’ tale that has a market in the ‘different’ sweepstakes. Obviously it needs a credible director which Basu is on this terrain. The film will get good/great reviews and the same for Ranbir. You can see this from a mile! I liked the trailer a lot so not dissing it but I am quite amused when people here equate the best box office stories with the greatest risks! That’s a contradiction in terms. One can be lucky once or twice but if one is being so consistently clearly the films weren’t risky enough!

        Like

      • rockstar Says:

        his mannerism is similar to him and to a ceratain raj kapoor’s chaplin avtar saurav

        utkal: on debut it was a beautiful intense performance again two powerhouse performer and watch sathiya for subtety and ya you named different characters which is similar to everyone and all have urban uppermiddle class feel to it ….thats not versatility

        Like

    • Yes, but in all those movies Ranbir played a middle to upper middle class urban guy. What great risk is there in those roles? It is the same type of character in different situations. Just because you like those movies/roles does not make them a stretch for Ranbir or show great versatility.

      Like

  45. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    I put up the Eega post to show what an inventive mainstream script can be like, instead of the Singham and rowdy rahore and all the predictable stuff people like Parabudevaa and rohit Shetty are importing. Of course I put my money where my mouth is and saw Eega instead of Bol Bachchan, because the former looked more promising.

    Like

  46. Satyam, the excellent 1st para of your review actually reminded me of a super scene in BB trailers (sadly missing in the film) where the ‘muslim Abbas’ transforms into ‘hindu Abhishek Bachchan’- it was as if the entire Manmahon Desai’s image of a secular Bachchan was encapsulated in that one scene. And while watching the ‘central conflict’ of BB, I could not help but be reminded of “Imaan Dharam”- one of Salim-Javed’s weaker script yet a very watchable film and decently directed by Desh Mukherjee

    Like

  47. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    Saurabh: Naach, D6, KHJJS and Yuva- these are really ‘different’ films, but not particularly risky. If the films had turned out well they could all become hits.

    Naach had Antara Mali, music and dance numbers, it could as well have been another Rangeela if well-made, YUva and Rani as costars. Music by Rahman. What was so risky about it? The three epiosde foramt can work at the box office as Life In A metro proved. It is just that the script did not hold together and except for the Abhi-Rani track others were half baked. The same goes for D-^ . As a script it is no more out-of-the box than Rang De Basanti. It was far more linear and had choreograhed songs like Msakali. Again the script was weak. For the film to work, it had to capture the lived-in reality of Old Delhi or recreate it colourfully, like Wasseypur, Themn it wont have mattered wheher the main narrative was abstarct or not. Mehra failed badly in doing that. The same goes for Raavan. THe theme was potentially solid box office material. It had Aishwarya, great songs, magical locale..but the script let ithe film down. After all a film like Khalnayak with the same theme worked wonderfully well. If Mani had not been so lazy about the writing and Abhi had put some more soul into his performance it could have been another Rockstar. Just witha better performance by Vikram, the tamil version did so much better ( Raavanan Imdb rating : 6.8, Raavan: 5.1). KHJJS was risky. But no more than Pan Singh Tomarwas. If it was well made , say as well as Pan Singh Tomar, it would have been a raging hit., considering how well PST did with just irrfan in the cast. So it was not the projects per se but how they turned out. And Abhi’s lacklustre or worse performances in most of these did not help.

    Like

    • rockstar Says:

      so antra mali is most important thing to a movie(one wonder whats her contribution to bollywood )

      ravan is comparable to khalnayak( i can see nothing except the name to be compared) and fyi it worked because sanju just came out of jail and had sympathy factor running

      yuva with life in metro(my god this is outrageous and they are pole apart as one could be)

      pst with khjjs(lol it should be bandit queen) etc etc\

      some of these things are outrageous and you lost respect big time here

      btw patchy scrpt and performance are not same anyway….you bring a certain rating but by your take you automatically ignored the critical response to , naach and even rejected khjjs inperformance part ….really remarkable indeed

      and ya vikram was better than junior in ravan( and one feel role required a mature protagonists and one don’t need a xyz rating to know it lol)

      Like

  48. Alex adams Says:

    Actually there were loads of pluses in Raaavan -liked it overall quite a lot…
    Feel that, for a change, mani ratnam lost grip over proceedings somewhat here and even the basic premise wasn’t audience palatable somewhat , it seems…
    To be fair, it may have to do to his heart attack or illness during the making of the film.
    Must say, I liked Aishwarya and her performance quite a bit in Raaavan !
    just the songs and their picturisation was worth the while n the cinema
    ‘Behne de’ was a class act for eg-lovely atmospherics and rendition

    Like

  49. Alex adams Says:

    “If Mani had not been so lazy about the writing and Abhi had put some more soul into his performance it could have been another Rockstar”
    Well, I won’t compare them like for like
    But must admit that even as time passes, I’m increasingly convinced that my ultra gaga initial positive response to rockstar wasn’t wrong
    Rockstar the film, the performances and the music were ace!!
    Even kashyap recently admitted that with rockstar, that director had matured into a very competent director…
    Inspite of politics etc, there is sense in what kashyap says about rockstar and agree with him!

    Like

  50. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    And if Shanghai can do 24 cr, a political thriller like KHJJS with a much bigger budget could have done much better if it was well-made film.

    Rockstar and Raavan were both complex and ambitious. Both had imperfections. But the core of Rockstar worked and the director could get across the unconventional relational dynmaics between Ranbir and Nargis. It was against any kind of conventional morality . but the director took you along his vision. Raavan failed to create any kind of relatonship between the main characters. also it was tackiily written for most part , trying to force fit it into the Ramyana retelling. Rockstar did not try to belabour the allusion to the Heer Ranjha or Orpheus-Eurydice , and let the narration flow its natural course. And Ranbir’s performance added so much to the film. The soul of Jordan was there for the audience to touch and feel.

    Like

    • rockstar Says:

      rockstar and ravan are not even comparable as genre

      one is youth friendly author back role which had commercial plus and other is higly controversial inversion of a mythology based on rural set up of separatism infaoct none of the genre you atre trying are comparable

      valid comparison of rockstar is devdas , pyasa , heer ranjha (on same theme and genre)and for ravan its separatism based theme much like dil se and other movies with tones of inversion and separatism

      in just trying to run down someone atleast comparison should be proper and its basic common sense rather than randomly naming films

      Like

  51. Alex adams Says:

    “Both had imperfections. But the core of Rockstar worked and the director could get across the unconventional relational dynmaics between Ranbir and Nargis. It was against any kind of conventional morality . but the director took you along his vision”
    Well said…
    “The soul of Jordan was there for the audience to touch and feel.”
    Yes utkal uncle: I definitely touched it…
    Also rehmans contribution there can’t be underestimated
    Atleast to me, it worked much more since it signified the various phases of a young individual Interms of musical interludes , allegories and anthemic strong tracks..
    There was a track each for ‘realisation, ‘passion, ‘anger’ , ‘despair’ and finally ‘the spiritual’
    It goes without saying that many won’t have seen that layer and some won’t ever due to inherent snobbishness against this style and genre and in this case, the credentials of that particular filmmaker..
    Fortunately , have no such baggage and declare rockstar to be one of the best films coming out of mainstream bollywood in recent years (all things considered!)

    Like

    • Bravo.
      It takes a special kind of cluelessness and a delusional state of mind to compare Shanghai with KHJJS or Rockstar with Raavan.

      Like

  52. Alex adams Says:

    Though I agree with your views usually utkal uncle: suggest u check out Bol bachchan before pulling down poor abhishrek 🙂
    Also utkal uncle: what did u think of the use of music in GoW ?

    Like

  53. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    Alex Adams: Abhishek might be okay in Bol Bachca as his comic timing is not bad. but he is unlikely to be anything extraordinary. Neither is the film. I had space for one film this week and it was Eega for me. Next week it is Cocktail for me. The problem with time pass films is that I have no time to pass. I see a film consciously to get a great experience, intense pleasure or extreme mental stimulation. I don’t frankly think Bol Bachchan is going to provide me ay of these.

    The use of music in GOW is the work ofa genius. I could write paragraphs on the use of Jiya ho Bihar ke Lala in the final dying sequence of Manoj Bajpai. It gives me goose piples just to think ofit. Womaniya is sucha great concept , right up there along with Emotinal Atyachar as a gift to our collective vocabulary. Kehke loonga, Ek bagal mein Chand, I am a hunter..were all used extremely well.

    Anurag Kashyap has no parallel when it comes creating and using music in films today.

    For someone like me for whom Rahman was god and i would feel physically unwell if i did not hear a Rahman track in the course of a day, now it is Amit Trivedi and Sneha Khnwalkar playing non-stop on my car stereo with occasional break for Vicky Donor and Cocktail. Of course when I get back to Rahman album on a highway drive, he is still God.

    Like

    • Re: “I see a film consciously to get a great experience, intense pleasure or extreme mental stimulation.”

      Let us know how Cocktail works out.

      Like

      • yes precisely my thoughts!

        Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          Well, utkal uncle-
          Sure ‘cock tale’ will give u ‘intense pleasure’
          Joking utkal uncle 🙂 shall be watching it as well
          OT–
          Btw after a familiar rain break at Wimbledon men’s final
          Sets 1:1
          Obviously Swiss Federer should have the upper hand inspite of not being at his top…

          Like

        • Alex adams Says:

          On that note, utkal uncle:
          Will like your views on cocktail
          The look, vibe , music
          And btw since that your specialist area, what do u feel about the heroines in cocktail-thanx

          Like

      • LOL,Q.
        Only thing worse than stupidity is the pretense of smartness.

        Like

    • Utkal, leaving aside some of your analogies which are fairly outrageous for a number of reasons and which I won’t get into here the problem I always have with your definitions beyond your very dogmatic framing (I don’t mean this as an insult) is that as far as I can tell your choices ‘agree’ with the box office 99.9% of the time. It could be Guru or ZNMD or Rockstar or Eega! In each case the box office in some measure accompanies the result. Note I am not saying you like the films because these are successful. I think that you just fall in a more general audience demographic in this sense. there’s nothing wrong with this of course except that you then get all ‘metaphysical’ about your choices and explain them in all sorts of ways but that larger correlation always holds.

      And so to caricature your position just a little bit ‘I like ZNMD because it touched me, the characters touched my heart, the film enabled me to become a better person and love my wife and kids more’! The problem is you get rather ‘touched’ by a number of films that do very well! And when you then say you like something like Kaagaz ke Phool for example that doesn’t argue against this point because Guru Dutt has won the box office battle in a ‘historic’ sense. No one argues against Kaagaz ke Phool anymore just as no one argues against Mera Naam Joker. Other examples could be offered here.

      Now in a lot of cases your central argument against someone liking say D6 is that it did not work. If pushed further with the Guru Dutt analogy you say that ‘well even the critics didn’t like it’. When pushed further here with examples of films not just in India that neither did well nor had any critical support you ignore the point. But the box office for you is everything from Paan Singh Tomar’s 10 crores to ZNMD’s 90 crores! All these are examples of films touching the audience. One touched 2 people, the other 10 but that I suppose is irrelevant! Even with Shanghai, a film which had strong critical support you didn’t like it and were happy to explain it in box office terms. So really your benchmark is the box office argument. You might not consciously realize this but this holds for 99.9% of your choices one way or the other.

      When it comes to your arguments for any given film the problem once again here is that there is no ‘theoretical’ position here that applies across the board. In other words there isn’t a set of aesthetic choices that you’re partial to nor thematic ones along the same lines. There isn’t a set of political concerns in any sense. With every film your reasons are sui generis. And this makes me suspicious. Why? Because even when people don’t actively theorize about their choices one can usually look at their likes and dislikes in cinema and figure out where they’re coming from. This isn’t about genres. Most people see and like a variety of genres but within these genres they still support certain kinds of films. So someone who likes a certain over the top kind of ‘mass’ entertainment might look for these elements whether the film is a revenge drama or a comedy. Someone who is very concerned about the politics of a film might look at seemingly very different films through the same prism. The same for someone who likes well-shot works. So on and so forth. But in your case you range across a variety of works that have no real connection and where in each case your claim is the very impressionistic ‘it touched me’ and then you proceed to define why it touched you and as I said the arguments are sui generis.

      The box office then becomes a defining factor, consciously or not. Of course consciously you often use it for some very circular bits of logic. The film touched people. How do we know this? Because it did well! Note what’s happening with Bol Bachchan though. You’re rejecting your usual criteria. The film is doing well so presumably it’s touching people. Abhishek is coming in for praise. Now I actually happen to agree with you that it’s not an extraordinary performance by any means but the point is you don’t have the ground to make a similar claim. Going by your own yardsticks. Similarly the box office is determinative once again when some of us praise films that haven’t done well or haven’t received the right critical attention. Your position there isn’t that perhaps the other person is right or at least has a different perspective that’s as valid as yours but that he or she is wrong. Why? Because the film didn’t do well and/or the critics didn’t like it. This is why I often employ the dogmatism charge where you are concerned. If one cannot imagine a position that one totally disagrees with as being valid one is dogmatic. Which doesn’t mean one has to accept every other position as valid, just some of them.

      This is one of the reasons why I constantly talk about the institutional problems associated with resting everything on a box office claim. The critics do this by and large and the audiences follow. It happens at an unconscious level most of the time. because one operates with a linkage — that someone which works at the box office must have something worthwhile about it. Note here how the critics who often reject Akshay’s comedies or Rohit Shetty’s films or whatever don’t really disprove my point. Because there’s a certain class angle here. Films that are as vapid at the multiplex end of things are not rejected. Or relatively meaningful masala is never given the kind of attention that any number of multiplex efforts are. Take delhi Belly. what would the critics have said if ‘feces’ had cropped up in an Akshay comedy as it did here?! I didn’t have a problem with DB myself and I don’t think it’s empty either but this is an example. In any case critics dissing certain kinds of masala doesn’t disprove the larger criticism at all. Because these are the ONLY box office hits they argue against!

      Most of the claims you make wouldn’t even be comprehensible in a Western sense. Why? Because the box office couldn’t be assumed as a secret and spectral ‘support’ for one’s claims. Of course the box office here matters to the life of a star in all the same ways. But it doesn’t define the larger debate on cinema in any meaningful sense. Often there’s a complete divorce between the critical apparatus and box office realities.

      Like

      • Satyam but is it compulsary to like Raavan? I don’t think it is even Guru leave alone Sholey that if someone does not like it, it is assumed that he is not a bright guy. Why can’t someone like Rockstar more than Raavan- it even got better reviews if that is the criteria. And here Utkal is even explaining his preferances. And leave aside films of other actors, I like Naach, Run, Bluffmaster, Game, KHJJS and DmD more than Raavan, UJ, Players and LoC – films of different genre with nothing common in them

        Like

  54. Alex adams Says:

    “The use of music in GOW is the work ofa genius. I could write paragraphs on the use of Jiya ho Bihar ke Lala in the final dying sequence of Manoj Bajpai”
    Haven’t seen GoW but have found the music right up there!
    Infact liked this shade of rustic /folk/new age sound music for the first time…
    I rate sneha khanwalkar quite high…actually somewhat higher than amit trivedi minus dev d…

    Like

  55. Utkal Mohanty Says:

    Satyam: Where did you hear me mention the box office once in y telling which film like? Whether it is Shnaghai or Ishaqzade or GOW my liking or disliking I have expressed on a Saturday or Sunday at most when the BO picture is not clear at all. And thoiugh I did not like Shangahi at all I have defended its Bo success in numerous posts. GOW is no box office record breaker, but i think it is a masterpiece. So ? and just for the record I dont watch a film as a critic but as a viewer. I react to a film directly , with an open mind and i analyze later.

    Like

  56. Alex adams Says:

    Cool it utkal uncle 🙂
    Plz don’t take the comments of Satyam and others personally
    We really appreciate your comments–cheers
    Satyam :pray dont be severe on utkal uncle- he has a worthy unique point …

    Like

  57. Before talking about Raavan’s box office/opening day figures its important to note that it was released at 750 prints ie almost half the number at which most biggies released in 2010
    http://bollybusiness.wordpress.com/2010/12/30/2010-annual-boxoffice-report/

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  58. ‘Beggars cant be choosers’ – thats the case with our advocate of ‘different’ and ‘prestige’ films. The box office of Abhishek had touched such a low that he is ecstatic and orgasmic about a movie like Bol Bolchchan and dont even realize how silly it looks being degraded to the likes of Akshay or Salman fans in the ‘other’ forum.

    There is a voice of sanity in GF’s assessment of what this really means for Abhishek (provided the WOM is indeed positive which will mean that the usual ‘trending’ standard as discussed here will be met by BB in coming weeks).

    [edited]

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    • May be you should change your handle from ‘Bored’ to ‘Boring’.

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    • Bored, I know how disappointing it is for you that Abhishek is currently doing BB and not one of those real prestige deals. Hope he can live upto your expectations in the future. Guess you agree with GF on the other stuff related to Abhishek as well.

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  59. The Hollywood Reporter

    Bol Bachchan: Film Review
    7/7/2012 by Lisa Tsering

    The Bottom Line
    Broad Bollywood comedy Bol Bachchan spills over with nutty charm.

    Summer’s big-budget Bollywood comedy from Ajay Devgn and director Rohit Shetty starts slow but finishes with a bang.

    Like Tyler Perry comedies — such as Tyler Perry’s Madea’s Witness Protection, which was playing next door to Bol Bachchan — mainstream masala comedies from Bollywood are a polarizing art form. Fans of the genre know it’s best to turn your mind off, or at least set it on “vibrate,” for a couple of hours.

    This big-budget summer release starts off awkwardly with a half-hearted music number, but once it kicks into gear, the film’s engaging performances and ever-spiraling hysteria make its two-and-a-half-hour running time fly by.
    Bol Bachchan will undoubtedly draw in fans of muscleman Ajay Devgn (Singham) and his longtime collaborator, director Rohit Shetty (Golmaal: Fun Unlimited), for a healthy run at the box office.

    But its biggest surprise is Abhishek Bachchan, who reveals an unexpectedly subtle side and a talent for verbal humor in one of his best performances to date.

    Abbas Ali (Bachchan) and his sister, Sania (Asin Thottumkal), are left penniless when their brother tricks them out of their Delhi home. Desperate to earn money (“The heaviest burden a man can have is an empty pocket,” muses one character), Abbas takes a job in a remote Rajasthani village as the assistant to a local ruler named Prithviraj Raghuvanshi (Ajay Devgn).

    Prithviraj is a burly but bone-headed man who cannot stand the smallest lie, while Abbas, to his credit, is a decent fellow. But the moment Abbas arrives in the village, a series of mishaps and misunderstandings make it necessary for him to concoct one lie after another, such as a fictitious twin (gay) brother; a sweet, gray-haired old mother (a ruse for which he has to hire an aging, bawdy cabaret dancer); and a reason why Abbas (a Muslim pretending to be Hindu) is fasting during Ramadan.

    Tall and lanky, Bachchan — the son of India’s best-loved actor, Amitabh Bachchan — impresses as Abbas. As he attempts to keep an ever more tangled web of deceptions from Prithviraj, the words spill out of him and Bachchan’s usual smartly deadpan style is put to good use as he attempts to put a sensible façade on Abbas’s ever more convoluted circumstances. Special credit goes to screenwriter Yunus Sajawal, who bypasses slapstick to find hilarity in the characters and situations. Thottumkal and Prachi Desai are graceful in love interest roles, while Devgn’s overblown performance suits Prithviraj’s bluster.

    The film’s title is a bastardization of the phrase “bol vachan,” or “bundle of lies,” with a nod to both of the Big Bs who appear in the film: Amitabh Bachchan makes a guest appearance in the opening dance number.

    Bol Bachchan is an official remake of Hrishikesh Mukherjee’s 1979 comedy film Gol Maal, but no familiarity with the original is needed to appreciate this film — just the patience to sit through its 155-minute running time and an appetite for its uniquely Indian mix of over-the-top action, music and humor.

    Opened: July 6, 2012

    Production company: Fox Star Studios

    Cast: Ajay Devgn, Abhishek Bachchan, Asin Thottumkal, Prachi Desai, Asrani

    Director: Rohit Shetty

    Screenwriter: Yunus Sajawal

    Producer: Ajay Devgn

    Director of photography: Dudley

    Production designer: Narendra Rahurikar

    Music: Himesh Reshammiya, Ajay Gogavale, Atul Gogavale

    Editor: Photography: Dudley

    Unrated, 155 minutes

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/bol-bachchan-movie-review-bollywood-films-346234

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  60. sorry khujli

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  61. Happy as I am for Abhishek’s success and all the buzz he’s getting it’s somehow been a bittersweet deal for me. I might be over-reading into stuff here but I just have the feeling that this is the beginning of something new and the end of something else rather than simply a slight detour in a certain direction. I would love to be wrong here of course but I think some of us who liked much of his trajectory for the longest time even when we didn’t consider the films perfect will possibly have something to get ‘nostalgic’ about over time. Which is not to say that he won’t do the interesting thing from time to time but I just don’t think he will ever place himself in quite that same position again. And while the Aamir compromise can nonetheless be reached over time, assuming one develops something like his mind in these matters, the fact is that Abhishek was pursuing a somewhat more radical path in some ways. This is the larger loss here. Had he got at least middling success after Guru, i.e. either a number of plus films or huge winners for all the ones that didn’t work he would probably have kept on at it. he certainly tried to longer than anyone possibly could. Can’t think of another commercial star who’d follow up the Raavan failure with KHJJS! So he really came very reluctantly to this side of the equation. And it was a sincere effort otherwise after failing for so long in the early years and then getting a lot of success in the 2004-07 period in every sense he wouldn’t have walked away from some of the more obvious commercial formats so soon. but he might not see a path anymore to the same degree. At least not one where he would consider risking too much of his capital. I can’t blame him for this as a practical matter but the reason I regret it (i.e. assuming there’s anything to my hunch) is that I do think there is a shrewder way here. It doesn’t have to be either D6 or Bol Bachchan. a better balance can be achieved in very many ways. But again without minimal success one might not have the will to strive for it. He’s still a young guy so he does have time to capitalize on his success here and then start risking things a bit. But the problem is that with each such success the logic of the market gets more imprisoning, not less. And this in a variety of ways.

    So for anyone who might think I’m daft for being less than celebratory about BB well they haven’t been reading me closely all these years. I was never in it just to somehow have him proclaimed the top star! I was always interested in the actor and equally interested in the kinds of films he was attempted. That larger trajectory interested me for very many reasons. It was never quite my ‘dream’ to have him in akshay’s or Salman’s position. Again hope I’m wrong and maybe it’s too early to know one way or the other but I’m less than cautiously optimistic at this point. And once more I’m not talking about doing a different, interesting film here and there but about a larger trajectory more defined by difference than not. Think the first six months of 2013 should indicate his direction more clearly either way. if he just does another commercial film after D3 and waits to complete this before signing on to anything else I think my concerns here will have had merit. If he then decides on a couple with one being more interesting I’ll be relieved!

    To stress an older point using the most recent example I did enjoy his act a lot in BB and specially liked some of the stuff he tried as abbas (over the top though it was) but I don’t consider any of it even a patch on his DMD performance. Now a film like BB doesn’t necessitate this. Obviously Bachchan in Kaalia is hardly like Bachchan in Kaala Pathar. But that’s precisely my point. The kinds of commercial films dominant in Bollywood just don’t provide very good opportunities for the actor.

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  62. bachchan1 to 10 Says:

    ” Think the first six months of 2013 should indicate his direction more clearly either way. if he just does another commercial film after D3 and waits to complete this before signing on to anything else I think my concerns here will have had merit. If he then decides on a couple with one being more interesting I’ll be relieved!”

    Satyam Sir, Can you please elaborate little more on the statement above? So you are saying that he should do a movie before D3 releases and sign on to a couple of more commercially viable options after D3? Bit confused Sir.

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    • I’m saying this period will tell us whether he’s going to go the whole hog in a commercial direction, at least for now, or if he will do a couple of films where one is totally commercial and one a bit riskier.

      Incidentally on D3 I have a good sense about this. Don’t think this will be like D2 for him. Have always said this.

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      • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

        Aaah got you, I guess the blue label is hitting me…lol..

        Agreed on the D3 deal here, It’s definitlely not gonna go with D2 way, Few reasons for that, The obvious being that Jr will make sure of this 2nd time around, also Aamir is not the one who hogs the limelight he has always been fair to his co actors, many examples of that we have seen in past. Also, Jr has said in a few interviews in the past few days, you dont get second chances and I did, Will be concentrating on D3 and work hard on it etc.

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        • yes you have it down pat.. Abhishek shares a very close equation with Aamir. Secondly Aamir isn’t the sort of star looking to hog the show. He does have many angles going in favor from Katrina to the villain’s gimmicks and so on but in a proper script Abhishek does have the ‘flamboyance’ advantage over him (even if his cop here is the restrained sort). But also Aamir has praised the script here and the director (who’s just done tashan so far) as having a good mind. Aamir’s word is good as gold for me! And I personally don’t believe Aamir would have endorsed a D2 script in the same way. And yes Abhishek will be careful this time around. Don’t think he would have signed onto this to begin with without Aamir. I remember after D2 there were lots of rumors about how the franchise would be reloaded with totally different stars and Abhishek wasn’t even needed anymore and I had said many times ‘wake me up if this franchise moves forward without Abhishek’! And so 7 years after the last one the new installment will release. I am certainly eager to see Aamir and Abhishek together but wish it had been for a more substantial film.

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        • bachchan1 to 10 Says:

          Agreed on all counts here Satyam Sir, But you never know with Aamir on board I am almost certain this will be something really really special and it wont be just a cop and thief story and come out much more than that. Given that Dhoom is not a franchise to be proud of, but still with Aamir I really see some sparks for it.

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  63. Satyamji while i agree with what most of you say i still have doubts about abhishek getting something more out of D3. If i remember correctly Jr. signed D2 when he was having really good time both boxoffice and Critical acclaim wise he was riding high on BnB which was a YRF and despite that the D2 character of Jai Dixit was insipid. This time around when aamir really got on board Jr was having really tough time. I doubt that the YRF people have given him something really interesting here and to be honest its not their fault too.I think they have started shooting on it so last minute changes in D3 i dont think that is the case.

    Satyamji what exactly you are expecting from D3 for abhishek both box office and critical acclaimwise?

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  64. Satyam ji,
    Good morning . Great to read your post on Bol Bachchan.
    Thanks. Bol Bachchan rockz. Hats off to Abhishek ji, Ajay Devgan, Rohit Shetty and his team.

    Thanks.
    Best Regards
    Rupam { xhobdo }

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